I stop when robot says to stop
#subtlety
lilac stag
molten citrus
you gotta sim your gear
visual holly
stuck on overthinking over crafting the neck for more mastery since my 12k or crafting the back
jade urchin
robot launched me to 24% versa, im fucking invincible
visual holly
should i go with the back? or the neck
lilac stag
likely has a shit back
molten citrus
maybe his cloak is ass
visual holly
yeah thats what is confusing me
visual holly
likely has a shit back
DFC neck
molten citrus
^
jade urchin
it cant be that bad that a back gives 107k no
hazy breach
Idk all the numbers seem incredibly high
lilac stag
it cant be that bad that a back gives 107k no
yes it can
visual holly
You could link the actual sim
aaa here you go https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sm9CNPnccrcaSjbJysNbxf
elder pebble
gUYS
molten citrus
aaa here you go https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sm9CNPnccrcaSjbJysNbxf
patchwerk 5?
elder pebble
so im doing dungeons now and randomly my symbols just dissapear???
jade urchin
patchwerk5 3 min
molten citrus
...
elder pebble
is this a known bug?
jade urchin
yee issue found
visual holly
im very confused
jade urchin
so im doing dungeons now and randomly my symbols just dissapear???
never happened to me
molten citrus
so im doing dungeons now and randomly my symbols just dissapear???
wdym by disappear
elder pebble
like i see it coming off cd, then it just insta gets used and i get no buff
visual holly
sim patchwerk 1 target 5 min
gonna do both
lilac stag
wdym by disappear
Went out for smokes and never came home.
visual holly
but neck is better for the long term right ? we have no good mast/vers ring this season
lilac stag
like i see it coming off cd, then it just insta gets used and i get no buff
You likely have it macro’d to something
jade urchin
but neck is better for the long term right ? we have no good mast/vers ring this...
neck u mean, but yes
jade urchin
neck is a pretty safe craft for prgoression
by the time it would get replaced u have leftover sparks for sure
hoary bloom
how do i sim the best gem options ?
jade urchin
how do i sim the best gem options ?
below the mainstat gem theres always use and always use 3+ combinations
pulsar gate
so MH + Neck ?
jade urchin
can do 2 dance + symbols between flag windows
molten citrus
2-1-2-1-2-1
jade urchin
if flag at 30 seconds roughly dont do dance window
hazy breach
how do i sim the best gem options ?
Like solo said theres an option on raidbots to do it but its not really worthwhile for sub. Just get mastery+vers gems and 1 vers+mastery
pulsar gate
what is my prio inside dance?
jaunty heath
Prob better to start here
visual holly
what is my prio inside dance?
i usually go with one backstab then shadow strike+evi
jade urchin
i usually go with one backstab then shadow strike+evi
backstab -> sec tech -> shadow strike evisc
visual holly
backstab -> sec tech -> shadow strike evisc
yeah this one
visual holly
do you guys do one backstab after dance or multiple?
jade urchin
one with premed as first builder only
pulsar gate
so u follow the opener kind of
i guess what i find odd is, does that sec tech get max stack dance macab?
hazy breach
No, nor do you care
placid tendon
if I secret technique with < 1 sec left on shadow blades, does it still buff every hit of my tech?
pulsar gate
i see
hazy breach
if I secret technique with < 1 sec left on shadow blades, does it still buff eve...
No
It does not snapshot
pulsar gate
so when i have all cds up ill always follow the rupture, flag, symbols, SD, SB, backstab sec tech
placid tendon
and shadow blades after backstab
jade urchin
also can replace rupture with eviscerate/black powder
if rupture already up and dont need to replace
during cds
jaunty heath
It’s easier to just refresh while flag so it’s up during the whole duration
Kinda ends up being that way by a few secs of anyways
But ye I think the loss of that eviscerate instead of just rupturing out of safety is prob 0 to none
jade urchin
ye but if u refreshed rupture right before might as well not rupture again
but u right doesnt really matter
pearl swan
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
jaunty heath
Shadowstrike critting or not has a bigger impact than that Evis prob 
Biggest wet noodle outside of cds 
tribal blade
the price we pay for having damage in cds
pulsar gate
will i ever symbols without dance
jade urchin
will i ever symbols without dance
u can send a symbols + sec tech in the 30 seconds before cds window
if ure high on symbols stacks
and it doesnt ruin ur next cd window
pulsar gate
i see
jade urchin
happens in m+ few times per dungeons cause of downtimes between pulls
jaunty heath
the price we pay for having damage in cds
Could be even more that way tbh
Just go all in blizzard
Please
hazy breach
Just go all in blizzard
We were way more all in on the ptr, but they reigned us back in
alpine wraith
yea good times
hazy breach
In general they dont like when a spec is too CD focused because it leads to balancing issues
keen dome
They fear the nuclear crit...
hybrid tree
yea good times
dude u just gave me a huge flashback, we used to play osu multiplayer years ago
alpine wraith
damn i love osu!
jaunty heath
In general they dont like when a spec is too CD focused because it leads to bala...
Everything’s hard to balance that’s a nieche
Same for dots
jaunty heath
Ya, I wish it was possible somehow tho
Damage nieches are cool
But it isn’t, raid designing would be impossible
alpine wraith
ye they forgot about shadow
jaunty heath
E.g why stix is weird
jaunty heath
Starfall is very unique but I’m glad it exists
Game is getting homoginized so much, which obviously leads to better tuning
But stuff like starfall is cool
Niches good
I hope we don’t catch a nerf because of the stupid useless wowhead chart of week 1 💀
WW monk is so far down it’s funny
alpine wraith
rogue is actually quite mid
jaunty heath
It is
alpine wraith
my guild just benched all of us melee kinda but 3 or 4
jaunty heath
But sub and sin look real good on that chart
alpine wraith
and told us unlikely we even see the next bosses
jaunty heath
We were pumping week 1 esp if you got 4set - transmitter being good and shit
Now that gear is coming in reality is starting to hit
alpine wraith
well we already knew how it was going
jaunty heath
Ye I was prepared for it
alpine wraith
but having to find a guild again will be exhausting holy
jaunty heath
I just hope we don’t catch a nerf for it
jaunty heath
my guild just benched all of us melee kinda but 3 or 4
Damn that sucks
swift tinsel
Nerfed for what
jaunty heath
Finding guilds is always shit
jaunty heath
Nerfed for what
Week 1 heroic charts, nothing unheard of
hazy breach
Idk id say sub is still above mid
jaunty heath
Sub is fine
alpine wraith
yea worse even is every guild has 1 rogue and even if they say they recruit rogue
likely you just get bench PoV anyway
sub can be fine but casters are op and melee spots are few
hazy breach
Like pure ST isnt the greatest, but were really good at bursting down adds
alpine wraith
or well casters are not op but just better for this raid
swift tinsel
I would be extremely surprised if we get nerfed
swift tinsel
I’m glad I’m the only rogue lol
jaunty heath
I would be extremely surprised if we get nerfed
Well it wouldnt be the first time week 1 heroic wowhead posts lead to nerfs tbh
Remember fury warrior in nerubar 
Catching a nerf and wclogs decides to not include adds
swift tinsel
They were head and shoulders above others in those cases, I wouldn’t say were at that level
jaunty heath
For heroic add damage
alpine wraith
fury warrior just had a damage profile blizz didnt like again
like sub
burst is not their cup of tea
be it st or aoe
jaunty heath
They were head and shoulders above others in those cases, I wouldn’t say were at...
Nah they were not
alpine wraith
they were mid in st
jaunty heath
They did damage to irrelevant things
jaunty heath
Heroic rashanan adds don’t make you op
alpine wraith
mythic brood did tho
jaunty heath
Neither do mythic ones
alpine wraith
they kinda carried a lots of guilds
jaunty heath
Yeah but mythic brood got ruled by frost dks the same way
swift tinsel
Yeah and some tomb sets were hard carried by warriors too
alpine wraith
dks were funny too yea
jaunty umbra
it was for brood and queen not rash
jaunty heath
Yessir brood and queen got progged in heroic week
Yknow outlaw cought a nerf the same week too right 💀
And if you tell me that was for brood and queen then idk
alpine wraith
well blizz is like that sometimes
fury did get nerfed more than once
so maybe we were just confused about which one it was
he was talking hc week nerf
alpine wraith
but hey outlaw saw some of those in legion
blizz decided FUCK YOU in particular
every time it was about to be good
nerfed
funny how combat was so loved in WoD then they get done dirty like that
and next expansion sub also took the pipe to the knees
jaunty heath
It’s funny because I doubt you would’ve seen outlaw in NP regardless of that nerf
alpine wraith
you would have seen more for sure
jaunty heath
While brood sounds like omega outlaw fight sin did everything better regardless
jaunty heath
Oh yeah sure I meant for like high high raiding guilds
That care about what’s good and what’s not
For my level it’s irrelevant what’s being played regardless 
alpine wraith
in theory outlaw was not super bad in ky veza and court
but queen was uh
you really wanted as much p1 and p3 dm,g
and a burst class that got 3 sets of cooldowns with dust almost
jaunty heath
Unless stix stays this way you might need to do comps in lower end guilds too
alpine wraith
then even without getting 2 sets was there
stix is a numbers check boss kinda
likely to get killed in 1 or 2 weeks for more midcore guilds
people really just got ahead of themselves after killing first 2
then rik is also a bit of numbers but i have seen it getting killed more too
dry dune
How much difference in dps is opener with/without vanish?
alpine wraith
not much
fair anchor
Is boots really the best slot to craft as second ? With how shit necks are this season it is well ahead as a craft compared to boots for me
hazy breach
Neck, bracers, boots, cloak are all fine
queen kraken
I saw some list with gloves as well
hazy breach
Just sim your character 
hazy breach
Still doesnt really matter
Its not like the "bis list" setup is 2% ahead of any other combination
Theres like 25+ setups that all sim pretty much identical
queen kraken
Ahh ok
Do you know from the top of Ur head how much worse a 4set with gloves is compared to the other ?
proven plover
depends on the ilvl of the pieces
but since gloves are weighted towards haste
its pretty dog
but you could also just sim it
queen kraken
Ye had an argument over that on hc pieces cuz our monk needed those too
Cuz u replace then asap anyway
dawn hinge
Damn Underpin ?? was tough as sub, took me 5 hours of attempts and 10 min fight time
alpine wraith
damn that is rough
dawn hinge
at least shield is trivial, but boss fucking melees to death
limpid sage
they were mid in st
Pre-compensation buffs they were bottom 3 in ST ackshully ☝️🤓
restive venture
Everytime I try this spec I feel like a fat bumbling moron who is about to drool on their keyboard
the assa brain can’t fathom cd line ups apparently
fickle mason
When we have about 17-25 seconds on Shadow blades do yall send a shadow dance or hold to have more chances on shadow blades
wicked joltBOT
full lagoon
New rextroy vid talks about the 500 or so mill damage cap in a single hit
Wonder how many tiers we are away from any spec hitting that
Theyll fix it if that ever does happen of course but still interesting
fallen depot
is this a dawnthread or focusing lense angle?
ripe violet
Theyll fix it if that ever does happen of course but still interesting
or they just stat squish again so they dont have to deal with it
muted frigate
we wont be getting another spark next week right? But the exploiters will?
keen dome
They're gonna do a stat squish in Midnight so rip gigantic crits
But we then get a new form of gigantic crits I guess
Relative gigantic crits
keen dome
we wont be getting another spark next week right? But the exploiters will?
We'll be getting a half, yeah. I think they will too?
subtle garden
there's a quest for that half spark
you can have 2 full sparks this week
it's at the catalyst
muted frigate
not the point of this conversation ^^
keen dome
As I understood it, they, like everyone else, had half a spark available this week. And then used an exploit to get the quest to show upa gain to get a full spark?
So we should all have parity now
pulsar gate
numbing over atrophic always for keys?\
muted frigate
if that is the case then yea its even
pulsar gate
i guess it makes less casts go off compared to less damage from them
full viper
what stats do you craft when you want to switch between sub and assa?
alpine wraith
assa does not care that much about stats but crit mastery usually
you can sim both and check
sub usually goes vers mastery
full viper
thanks
spice saffron
do we send a dance on pull if delaying cds on rik reverb to giganuke the barrels
subtle garden
you're really only delaying 12sec, so you don't need to send a dance on pull
urban stream
!wa
wicked joltBOT
slate lantern
Teach me pvp senpai
wheat sentinel
Is it wrong that I want to do a 3 sub rogue meadery just to see how fast chewy dies
alpine wraith
you begin cds at 14 secs or so
think stealthi wrote dance timings yday or the other day
native zodiac
thats the timers
theres no exact timers but you get the rough idea
the first flag starts at 14secs
spice saffron
https://imgur.com/RHMbL2j i had fun, barrel destroyer
cunning notch
anyone got a nice plater profile i could use ?
tranquil garden
jundie's is pretty good
do the supply crates drop in every zone or just tww zones? I'm so done with transmitter
swift tinsel
Was told its any zone, not just TWW
spice saffron
where do you view the boss cd timeline like this btw out of interest
native zodiac
thats the liquid addon
think its behind a paywall
but MRT has the same exact one
just open MRT and its called timelines iirc
molten citrus
do the supply crates drop in every zone or just tww zones? I'm so done with tran...
TWW zones yes
molten citrus
Was told its any zone, not just TWW
TWW zones have the most active spawns
its def not any zones tho
swift tinsel
See that's what I thought, but someone said they spawn in zones from DF, BFA etc
molten citrus
TWW, DF, BFA zones have spawns. DF/BFA spawns will take foreeeeveeeeeeer
its assumed spawn timers are based on how many people are in said zone
surreal crypt
hey guys i have a question , so idk if it's because of bad ping or me pressing symbols more than once it insta uses both charges is there a macro or something to fix the issue ?
hazy breach
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
molten citrus
so TWW zones usually spawn every ~15min
swift tinsel
That would make sense since the other zones are pretty empty
molten citrus
That would make sense since the other zones are pretty empty
yeh, i tested out DF zones at the start of TWW and got a couple lucky spawns then sat for like 2hrs with no spawn
swift tinsel
Yeesh, not worth
unless you literally have nothing going on for a whole day
and have a 2nd monitor to watch a full season of something
tranquil garden
I see, cool. so TWW zones it is, rather than wait alongside TLPD
swift tinsel
Be mindful of faction balance on your server cluster
molten citrus
can i also add dance to it ? so it uses symbols then dance?
macroing dance+symbols isn't recommended
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.i don't think server cluster matters
only RP servers have restricted shards these days, and you can still be invited to them
swift tinsel
Oh really?
surreal crypt
macroing dance+symbols isn't recommended
oh , why?
twilit phoenix
jundie's is pretty good
join a war crate farm group
molten citrus
Oh really?
yep. iirc players on RP servers can't be invited off of their specific set of shards in the open world, but they can invite anyone from other realms to their shards
tranquil garden
oh, didn't know that was a thing, nice
surreal crypt
oh i know that i just have a seperate button for them , i only use the macro for opener and some other situations that u need both
tranquil garden
once upon a time rp realms were great when you wanted nobody to interfere with you, used them a lot when I was tlpd camping
but when I came back to the game it seemed like they started sharing crzs
analog grove
!plater
twilit phoenix
once upon a time rp realms were great when you wanted nobody to interfere with y...
legit just find a "war crate farm" group in the pvp LFG
it took me like an hour to get 800 conq
tranquil garden
yeah will do
proven plover
is there any string I can paste to compare flasks in sim
nvm I found it in the tc channel
peak prawn
!up
wicked joltBOT
proven plover
wait a second
wax is actually a dps increase in st?! or am I doing something wrong
strange chasm
Does shadow blades count as a DM stack?
proven plover
holy
alpine wraith
Does shadow blades count as a DM stack?
noope
weary shard
so like for most hc/mythic raid progress and most m+, it would be beneficial to learn sub? since i usualy main sin
proven plover
alchemical chaos sims higher than mastery/versa flask for me
my world view is melting
weary shard
does sub have the same problem like sin when the tank does chainpulls so that u can't get into stealth between packs?
proven plover
we dont really care about restealths tbh
full wyvern
You miss out on First Dance, but thats about it
swift tinsel
Just storm and you've basically got the same effect as premed
hazy breach
You can also vanish and sit outside for 6 seconds in the cuckchair and wait for first dance too
swift tinsel
Lol cuckchair
proven plover
lmao
swift tinsel
accurate tho
weary shard
that sounds nice. cause most tnaks i have while playing sin always chainpull and u feel so much weaker without gojng into stealth
hazy breach
Well youre effectively getting 60 combo points worth of cdr
By doing it
So for flag especially its decent
weary shard
tbh i would actualy have thought outlaw would be the m+ "king" from the rogue specs not sub 
hazy breach
Outlaw aint doing this kind of burst damage (its a ST boss) 
swift tinsel
Outlaw aint doing this kind of burst damage (its a ST boss) <:ez:587982298104987...
Bongo bonks
Nicu
weary shard
does it work like its written? so its more like a 1h buff u put on the tank?
alpine wraith
problem is some of our things do no aggro almost
so it is not as useful as it seems
swift tinsel
Or you get the slight delay and die
swift tinsel
happens in raid sometimes too
alpine wraith
unless in a group to snap some mobs
molten citrus
And if the tank dies and instantly releases the mobs will get leashed to wherever he respawns sometimes
bleak night
yup
oblique venture
had that happen at first boss in priory
bleak night
then bug out and start evading
swift tinsel
builds character
bleak night
and the tank is all the way at the start of priory and has to walk
bleak night
fun times
weary shard
and this sounds pretty dope as well
ornate lake
Is the vault only way to get the socket stuff or is there any other way?
halcyon coral
Ring neck u can buy
alpine wraith
for pve items only way for head belt and wrist
lilac pendant
How should i Use the Ravenous Honey Buzzer
paper iron
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
celest needle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gloomy slate
rip weakauras, cooldown manager kinda clean
paper iron
it is really great
gloomy slate
yeah!
paper iron
one of the best addition in the game
gloomy slate
gonna save 200MB of memory
paper iron
cant be as complete as weakaura because of the whole tool settings and stuff u can do with conditions and actions and private stuff and blablabla
bleak night
i dont think its remotely customizable enough yet to swap to personally
but
it is really cool
paper iron
but such a needed addition for a lot of players
bleak night
i want to see how it progresses for sure
gloomy slate
just means u can use it for basic stuff
and just have weakauras for tier set
etc.
either way net gain on performance
paper iron
agreed
can use it for most stuff, and then for sht / dm / blablabla can use some weakauras
proven plover
I am so confused as to how alchemical chaos sims higher than versa/mastery in both st and dslice
it feels so wrong
sleek pier
what are you guys craftin second ?
proven plover
but I'll listen to robot I guess
tepid trellis
I am so confused as to how alchemical chaos sims higher than versa/mastery in bo...
makes pot stronger
misty condor
what are you guys craftin second ?
cloak
twilit phoenix
what are you guys craftin second ?
depending on vault and heroic reclear, either wrists, gloves, boots, or cloak
prolly either boots or gloves tbh
cba spending 2mill+ on the boe bis boots
random hare
+10 key too low for a high overall but still pumped
25m dps 1st pull cinderbrew
tight phoenix
Sub pumping this season?!
weary shard
does it matter if i go to icy veins or wowhead for the sub guide?
asking cause it seems IV only has 2 talent builds, while wowhead has a lot more
proven plover
are you building these comps yourself? xdd
random hare
are you building these comps yourself? xdd
?
warm marlin
Surely he would have a warrior if self built
alpine wraith
does it matter if i go to icy veins or wowhead for the sub guide?
asking cause ...
we really only have 2 builds
random hare
u dont know lagaro or what
alpine wraith
one with rotten another for 1 point in finality
random hare
they are just friends
weary shard
we really only have 2 builds
cause the delve build seems o ahve a lot of differences to the other 2
twilit phoenix
kinda bis comp
is druid buff or warrior better?
alpine wraith
i dont really change many things for delve
paper iron
@random hare gimme prekey tech tyvm
alpine wraith
is druid buff or warrior better?
druid things affect dmg trinkets and enchants
so depends
sometimes one is better than the other
twilit phoenix
druid things affect dmg trinkets and enchants
ah I didn't think about that
thanks hachadino
pulsar gate
everforged dagger is what we craft right?
i only have 3 things this week so idk how ppl got 2nd spark
tepid trellis
<@1172550924519080006> gimme prekey tech tyvm
sectech a dummy
hazy breach
<@1172550924519080006> gimme prekey tech tyvm
Heres 3 prepull tips with varying levels of annoyingness:
Easy: Symbols 25s pre
Medium: Cast sectech on a mob outside of the dungeon beforehand so you have disorienting strikes (seems to last indefinitely)
Very: Be deathstalker, cast blades, swap to trickster, cancel blades right before you swap to trickster and then immediately start the key for slightly less than 20s of lingering darkness
alpine wraith
many dungeons like motherload or whatever do keep the disorienting strikes yes
hazy breach
worth noting that lingering doesnt actually buff sectech
random hare
Heres 3 prepull tips with varying levels of annoyingness:
Easy: Symbols 25s pre
...
holy shit the deathstalker one seems super tryhard tho
paper iron
wait
hazy breach
So its less useful than it might seem
random hare
what mark dmg
paper iron
since we dont really need vanish on pull anyway, cant we just in raid sectech a thing and vanish it out?
alpine wraith
it is unreal how hard it hits and still how much i hate deathstalker
alpine wraith
for raid idk
hazy breach
I dont think resettingwith sectech is reliable
But for a hc/farm clear you can just end your trash pull with a sectech without casting strikes or backstabs yes
paper iron
best case would be if it stayed through death, i could just sectech after a wipe call and wait
hazy breach
Dont think it does
paper iron
😔
hazy breach
Havent double checked though
paper iron
unfun
hazy breach
holy shit the deathstalker one seems super tryhard tho
Ye thats why i said its very annoying 
spark tusk
cant be as complete as weakaura because of the whole tool settings and stuff u c...
Yeah blizzard is not going to open up custom code options for their UI directly in game like WA will do so it will never compete for pure flexibility.
However this does look really slick. Honestly it's one of those things where I can see swapping to using that, and using WA to supplement with power bars, duration bars, etc
I am interested to try it out
One of the thigns I don't like about personal resource display, the blizzard one, is it moves around a lot
molten citrus
If someone makes addons to add more to them I may give them a shot
spark tusk
Can you anchor it to the cd manager?
hazy breach
Most people dont need much more than something showing their cds and important buffs
paper iron
Yeah blizzard is not going to open up custom code options for their UI directly ...
as i said, it will helps so much it such a great addition for loooooot of players. The ones that arent using weakauras, the ones that dont want to deal with weakaura as much as we have to rn, the ones that wanna free some memory space, and stuff can go on. It s just so good. I probably wont ever using it myself cuz i m used to steal a class wa and work arround it to make it more personnal with what i need, but holy heck that s just a graet addition that should ve been done like 10 years ago. Blizzard really doing great lately with UI improvements (even if it should ve been done few years ago ahah, never too late)
hazy breach
Like LEs "dances for flag" prediction WA is very sweet and cool, but its absolutely not necessary
spark tusk
oh yeah you won't see me complaining about them adding it
I think it's great for them to do
paper iron
Zac did some tests and show some gameplay with it a week ago or so, it looked cool
placid tendon
How come it isn't recommended to craft neck this patch? Seems like an obvious choice with no vers mastery option.
paper iron
#outlaw message there and can go upward
lilac stag
not recommended by whom?
paper iron
when we discussed about it
swift tinsel
If I can anchor specific WA's to the built-in cd manager I'd def switch
alpine wraith
no one is recommending any craft
swift tinsel
for niche conditions
alpine wraith
it depends on your gear
spark tusk
So much of my tism itch has been able to be scratched by custom coded WAs so I see them as a personal hobby that I enjoy doing but I will not shed a tear if they are gone, to be honest
spark tusk
If I can anchor specific WA's to the built-in cd manager I'd def switch
You absolutely can
bleak night
i could see myself using it on sin tbh
spark tusk
They're frames like any other
alpine wraith
i will i want a huge mecha dinosaur dancing when i have 8 stacks of tier set
spark tusk
you can anchor weakauras to arbitrary frames rn
bleak night
maybe with just LE's kingsbane bar bc im bad and need it
humble aspen
For junkmasters - do you just press it when its off cd or do you save for a certain amount of stacks?
alpine wraith
and then get blown up when i lose them
hazy breach
How come it isn't recommended to craft neck this patch? Seems like an obvious ch...
Crafting a neck is very good. Theres dozens of combinations that sim exactly the same as the "bis lists" with the darkflame neck
Some crit somewhere is fine
swift tinsel
That's pretty nice then, I'm very likely just going to use the default aura tracking then add text/conditions to whatever I find I need
hazy breach
So if neck sims really high for you right now, theres no reason not to craft it
paper iron
just for outlaw
it bugs out on infinite duration
classic ui stuff
1293s of bf 
hazy breach
Having the buffs of your cds ontop of the button is definitely about time
spark tusk
What do you mean?
like the case of trigger 1 aura trigger 2 cd dynamic info from first active?
fickle mason
us against hc galywyx
rocky ocean
imagine the shitshow if mobas had that
elder canyon
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
modest delta
he played assa half the night then swapped sub but i dont think he knows how to play sub too well
more parse for me
:)
foggy egret
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
spice saffron
if ur playing with the Azerok's resonating heart trinket (big agility proc trinket), is it worth tracking the icd and planning your dances around it
alpine wraith
it is too rng
dry plank
if ur playing with the Azerok's resonating heart trinket (big agility proc trink...
Check in quick sim how robot does it. I think you just play
spice saffron
it is too rng
surely for my mini dances its not a big deal to track the icd and send them when it's up for quite a big increase in burst or
lusty swan
when we open in M+ is it worth throwing rupture on everything first
or just going full burst?
muted frigate
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
muted frigate
This macro is stilll dps gain right?
bleak night
when we open in M+ is it worth throwing rupture on everything first
rupture while the tank is gathering mobs
once stuff is together press cds
alpine wraith
eeez
lusty swan
ok. i think im just having a bit of trouble or doing something wrong or paladins are just insane idk me and my buddy have all 10's done basically but he's like 3.6m dps end of dungeon and im like 2.8m
bleak night
ret is probably going to do more overall
its way easier and it ass blasts aoe
you should be able to win on bosses though
graceful rock
So I want to craft using the free runed crest, should I just send on the highest sim or is there a strategy for lower ilvl crafteds?
median nacelle
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
lucid jackal
There can't be this many macros
glossy pivot
hi guys, is it still worth to keep Coup untill burst window, and using BP untill then?
alpine wraith
rogue cheerleading like a cham
serene moat
Is there a similar macro to prevent accidental uses of extra shadow dance?
alpine wraith
dance is already protected some secs
serene moat
Is there a macro for cold blood + sectec, but with the addition of cold blood only activating on button press when sectec is off cd?
alpine wraith
that is not how macros work
calm perch
Should I only be using Symbols with Secret Tech?
weary shard
does vanish have any usage for sub?
glossy oak
!wa
wicked joltBOT
void hound
does vanish have any usage for sub?
gives you a shadowstrike with premed
hazy breach
does vanish have any usage for sub?
Not really no
dense lichen
idk i just feel like im holding the group back haha
A lot of classes sacrifice single target damage for aoe capability in m+. Sub rogue benefits from being pretty good at both regardless of the build you’re running. And if you’re doing 10s and up w fortified and tyrannical, the extra boss damage that you can put out matters a lot for being able to time the key.
vale pine
subtlety is in the position where vanish can be used for utility for little damage trade off
the idea situation for vanish
glossy oak
any idea why the weakaura has shadowdance twice? Have I done something wrong ?
pseudo fiber
guys i've checked several guides, tried alot. sometimes i can keep up with dps in m+, sometimes im so dog, that i am ashamed. could any1 bump into a voicechannel with me to talk about it? xD i need to figure out what i am doing wrong
spark tusk
any idea why the weakaura has shadowdance twice? Have I done something wrong ?
Do you have 2 auras in the dynamic group for dance?
glossy oak
Do you have 2 auras in the dynamic group for dance?
I'm using the Guy weakaura, I'm only seeing 1 shadow dance under Rogue[Core]
There is also one under Rogue[Buffs]
I haven't made any changes to it
I do have another version of it (that I have edited but set to only load for outlaw). I want to try out Sub without changing my outlaw WA
spark tusk
Well I know Guy also plays sub so I would expect it to work for sub as well
paper iron
this is my main issue with afenar packs, they re gorgeous but he doesnt update them as the expansion goes on And start of this one was tough for him cuz russian stuff and blablabla
lucid jackal
Mine is updated though
spark tusk
any idea why the weakaura has shadowdance twice? Have I done something wrong ?
Yeah I don't see 2 in mine when I import it
so something must be modified
glossy oak
weird. I've deleted the outlaw one I had and the new one. reimported it. I've also tried to refresh / log out back in. Any other ideas?
And thank you for the help
lucid jackal
You could just go into the pack and delete a shadow dance cell
And see if that stops it from being duplicated
spark tusk
you'd have to go one by one to see when it shows up in the menu, because I don't see it in mine, you can use the little eye icon to turn the display on and off and see where it changes
Again, hard to say because I can't see it in mine at all, it just works on my end
lucid jackal
You can fuck with it all u want since u can just reimport if it breaks
spark tusk
testing deleting dance (if there's only oen in Core) is also a fine idea
like guy said
just to see what it does
if both go away, then it's that aura
if one stays, then it's not
Technical troubleshooting 🤘
tepid trellis
twilit phoenix
watching the ragnaros tank stay in the path of the rockets on last boss motherlode
GAMING
pulsar gate
im 619 rn
glossy oak
I deleted the one Shadow dance that was there. Works now
pulsar gate
just looking for big upgrades
glossy oak
Thanks :)
pulsar gate
what would retain long term value
glossy oak
What is this buff? Find weakness?
hazy breach
yep
lilac pendant
Is there any log review channel? i parse low and i need tips
ornate lake
I like vanish to hs out mid pull
I'm a rogue so sly and stout
Here are my daggers and here is my shroud
When I see trouble, I sprint around
Pop my vanish and hearthstone out
alpine wraith
fuuuck i almost had to do a key as dS
twilit phoenix
yeah man
bleak night
this is getting silly
sudden bison
its true
slate lantern
NA servers in shambles again
They're trying to keep you down pvp king
shut ridge
hardy agate
Any Advise on what to get out of my vault? Very difficult. I only have 1 set piece so far and i got a crafted dagger already
lilac pendant
any vod of subley rogue on a raid encounter cant find shit
hardy agate
Any Advise on what to get out of my vault? Very difficult. I only have 1 set pie...
Chest and glove is downgrade because i lose 4set
pulsar gate
i should prob go to siren island right
if i did it on another char do i need to do it again?
warm depot
any vod of subley rogue on a raid encounter cant find shit
twitch . tv / imexile
watch his vods
he swapped to sin for mugzee tho
twilit phoenix
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/83VuLznTnH8D2VTmimm6Cf
legit what I was malding about yesterday
lucid jackal
The neck is better long term but like
Gotta worry about today's problems
Not tomorrow's
west arch
What second crafter team do you recommend making?
twilit phoenix
so I can upgrade my pvp one to 655 at least
twilit phoenix
What second crafter team do you recommend making?
sim yourself
twilit phoenix
but it'll end up being neck, boots, cloak, or gloves
lucid jackal
Gg noobs
twilit phoenix
Can't even upgrade neck until Next week
i mean, just get a 655 to drop from a 10
and then upgrade for free
twilit phoenix
i haven't seen a neck drop since the patch dropped
go farm your sockets too guy
lucid jackal
Ya I got a glad guy from guild that were gonna just ww assa people down
Esp with ww being so op
Should be free
twilit phoenix
ya WW and Ret is crazy rn
I was just epic bg gaming for a few hours
the hotmogu blitz goes hard for honor too
damn so the only vers/mast bracers are from bandit huh
west arch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
thick temple
I'm still using heroic transmitter for my use trinket. Is there a dungeon or delve I should spam that drops a decent use trinket or should I just run with ilvl atm? I can't sim items I don't have
keen dome
the hotmogu blitz goes hard for honor too
yeah it owns
warm depot
xd servers got owned again
pulsar hemlock
I'm still using heroic transmitter for my use trinket. Is there a dungeon or del...
You can sim droptimizer
twilit phoenix
hahahaha servers borked yet again
pulsar hemlock
And select M+
twilit phoenix
simply amazing
remote rapids
yeah, did the whole game just up and die?
bleak night
actually ridiculous at this point lmao
warm depot
working on a saturday?? aintnoway
warm marlin
It's not a craft neck angle
guy didn't listen to me earlier 
lethal thorn
hey its me or the cyrce is kinda weird with the stat it snapshot on the gem of highest stat ?
if i unequiped and equip certain piece i can get the ring to increase either mastery or vers
mossy ibex
hey im new to sub and saw some people on archon playing thistle tea in m+ over cold blood? Can someone explain when or why i should play with that talent?
lucid jackal
guy didn't listen to me earlier <:sadge:1006372491641491547>
I mean long term it is
hazy breach
hey im new to sub and saw some people on archon playing thistle tea in m+ over c...
You wouldnttt
mossy ibex
You wouldnttt
Cold Blood is too big of a dps gain then ig?
lucid jackal
Idk where this flat earth tea shit started
mossy ibex
ya idk either im trying to learn the spec and was wondering what the deal with it was ^^
jolly shore
Why is backstab better after symbols + dance versus shadowstrike?
strange shore
I think it is for dance macabre stacks no?
lucid jackal
Why is backstab better after symbols + dance versus shadowstrike?
Danse stacks
coarse hound
!wa
wicked joltBOT
jolly shore
but doesnt shadowstrike give danse as well?
lucid jackal
Yes but backstab means you get +1 stack
strange shore
It does but the rest of rotation will benefit from more stacks
cunning acorn
what are we doing with set boni. Do we track it or ignore it, is there a way?
lucid jackal
Ignore
jolly shore
I see, this because danse only adds a stack for unique ability usage?
strange shore
I see, this because danse only adds a stack for unique ability usage?
Yes!
jolly shore
so its for the benefit of the entire dps window, rather than the secret technique
makes sense ty smart ppls
lucid jackal
Pre-med just gives u fill cp so backstab adds more danse damage
pulsar hemlock
that too
strange shore
I imagine it is the same reason a single storm cast in aoe +7 targets in the opener for M+ gives you the one more stack for your large black powders.
Just SS will be a lot of damage, but the +1 of a backstab and a dance for big pulls helps the pew pew window
west tide
strange shore
SS and storm rather, as the first two builders in big pulls in the damage window. 🤪
shy scarab
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
strange shore
I’m happy sub is feeling good again! It is always my favorite to play
wicked joltBOT
thick temple
do yall sim as dungeon slice or ST? I always did ST in season1 bc our single target was way more important than m+ imo
kind edge
do yall sim as dungeon slice or ST? I always did ST in season1 bc our single tar...
i usually do both, if mplus spec dungeon slice ofc, raid patchwerk
hazy breach
Results are most of the time pretty similar so i dont really bother
But you can if you want to
thick temple
Thank you
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sudden breach
as someone who used to farm +20 keys in previous expansions, getting repeatedly rejected for +7s is kinda hilarious to me lmao
returning to the game is hard
paper iron
dw as a guys getting title every season, getting rejected on 10's feels hilarious every season as well
bleak night
average dps pug experience
paper iron
lfg shit
thick temple
Struggling to get into 10s despite having all 9s lmao. I was farming 12s like 4 weeks ago. I feel like my S1 IO doesnt matter at all so what was the point?
sudden breach
did they remove the "delete your key before completion" feature to get a new key?
hexed dagger
do we still need to swap jastor ring for it to work
hazy breach
dw as a guys getting title every season, getting rejected on 10's feels hilariou...
Just be an overgeared rat 🐀
hoary lotus
did they remove the "delete your key before completion" feature to get a new key...
Thats been gone for like 3 expansions
vestal escarp
659 is overgeared?
sudden breach
ive been pvp-only since SL, didnt want to return to pve til now so im out of the loop
ornate heron
Struggling to get into 10s despite having all 9s lmao. I was farming 12s like 4 ...
dont you know? if you want to get invited to 10s you have to have all 12s timed...
hoary lotus
659 is overgeared?
For a 10, yes.
hazy breach
659 is overgeared?
661 in bag 
vestal escarp
sudden breach
guess im forced to make my own grps cos no one invites me
digital marlin
is sub the current meta spec for rogues?
alpine wraith
yea i was struggling with getting invited to +6s fist week but
just did my key from a +4 to +13 quite fast
sudden breach
the pug life
pulsar gate
Got my ring and gems for the rogue but how can I get ilvl to 658? I’m at 645 rn and only see dailies
I did the skip
alpine wraith
you need to get the quest to kill gallywix
and go in story mode and just crank him
to get the craft for higher ilvl
you need to do higher lvl content
hazy breach
if you mean the circlet
slate lantern
Got my ring and gems for the rogue but how can I get ilvl to 658? I’m at 645 rn...
You can kill rares and loot the chests around siren isle
hazy breach
Then you just kill rares and do the events on the island
lilac stag
Just keep refilling event table and kill those. Rares is you can get to them.
vestal escarp
So thats the norm now?
I guess getting another 658 circlet immediately was the cheat then
lilac stag
went 658 again it didn’t work, redid it and it went to 639 and worked. 
glossy pivot
is it worth it to keep Coup for SD?
lilac stag
It takes an hour ish
ornate heron
is assa outperforming sub in keys now?
lucid jackal
is assa outperforming sub in keys now?
About the same probs
pulsar gate
Ring ilvl is only stamina buff?
ornate heron
sub without house of cards feels poopy though ):
pulsar gate
which one
ornate heron
i have the badge
pulsar gate
you have to spend honor?
lilac stag
then sub shouldn’t feel poopy
slate lantern
you have to spend honor?
700 conq
slate lantern
Look for a custom group that farms the war mode crates that drop in each zone on a timer
slate lantern
It's the best on use trinket outside of heroic/mythic house of cards and mythic transmitter, and sub needs a good on use to pump our cd windows
balmy sand
!guide
balmy sand
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sturdy moat
how are the specs comparing to one another in raid ? im seeing a lot of differing saying all 3 are best in raid
m+ its pretty clear sub is best but idk if i should gear outlaw or sin for raid
whole lichen
!up
wicked joltBOT
alpine wraith
sub works everywhere kinda same as assa
outlaw does do good dmg
but in raid mechanics are not the friendliest for it
remote rapids
i'm the opposite, sin for keys and sub for raid
i might come back to sub some more for keys, but i like to press buttons too much for sub in keys 😛
lilac stag
how are the specs comparing to one another in raid ? im seeing a lot of differin...
All equally mid dps. Sub has burst. Assa has execute. Pick whatever you enjoy.
remote rapids
I do want to run a key with someone playing sub to see how it compares to me being sin
remote rapids
just points where both rogues doing 10k
alpine wraith
it was on thursday if anyone is curious
lilac stag
just points where both rogues doing 10k
You on bosses. Them on a random pack.
alpine wraith
these last days i only farmed darkflame cleft and motherlode
idk if I upload those
silk glade
Hey guys! When do u use evis and when black powder in m+? Always Evis or stuff like that?
olive mural
7+ targets for bp
remote rapids
my boss damage has been ok, but I'm playing the KB hybrid sort of build
alpine wraith
you can bp on 7+ targets if you use shuriken storm to get FW
keen dome
I keep applying to groups with a rogue in but none ever invite me, haha
alpine wraith
with second rotten charge
alpine wraith
first weapon second one depends on your gear mostly
pulsar gate
i might come back to sub some more for keys, but i like to press buttons too muc...
Sub has buttons
weary crag
i have a hc pyrotechnic
and a normal tier the other dagger
but pretty shit gloves cloak and nec
k
actually my gear is garbage
pulsar gate
lol
remote rapids
and I know sub does, just in between CDs I dunno for me I can't get comfortable with sub in keys
I love sub in raid
pulsar gate
in between CDs is not often it’s like 10-15s maybe
I could be playing wrong but your symboling and dancing often
all energy specs have downtime tho I think
remote rapids
Yeah, I mean it isn't too bad I guess ... just need to give it some more tries. I enjoy playing both specs too, keeps it interesting
pulsar gate
all 3 specs feel good
remote rapids
I only pug keys and runs 10-12s so I dunno Sin feels a bit more safe in pug keys when you have no idea what the tank might do next
pulsar gate
DF S1 outlaw was fun
pulsar gate
rogue kit for m+ meta
in CDs it’s mostly BS evis right?
or as
SS*
I’m like 2 buttons in CD idk if that’s right after sec tech
remote rapids
I guess I just keep running sin in keys until I start seeing people consistently beating me on the meters then I worry
oak grotto
So I wanna send Flag, and then SoD, Dance, Blade, SecTech without cb? And then when SecTech goes of CD thanks to you know, decreasing 1sec per cp spent, I wanna send that SecTech with SoD and dance, AND CB?
pulsar gate
Are we at risk for nerf?
weary crag
what do i craft
pulsar gate
MH and Neck
remote rapids
I just saw a WW get beat by the tank in a 10 for overall
vale pine
(i am joking, if thats not obviouse)
fallen crescent
(i am joking, if thats not obviouse)
bleak night
I just saw a WW get beat by the tank in a 10 for overall
Was he afk
remote rapids
Must have been, tank also did 2.1m overall which was pretty good I thought
bleak night
Oh if it was a pug then yeah a lot of them would’ve lost to that tank lmao
A tank doing 2.1m would beat a lot of pugs I join
lilac stag
if we get a nerf before ww does
I kept getting told we’re fine. Not to worry about other specs simming 2.9-3 milly.
remote rapids
Yeah it was me, tank, ww, and bm hunter but we still timed it so that is all that matters
lilac stag
clearly nerfs inc for sub
swift tinsel
What are people referencing that they’re convinced we’re gonna get nerfed
lilac stag
sub will shine in secret phase
lilac stag
What are people referencing that they’re convinced we’re gonna get nerfed
Heroic parses
swift tinsel
kind bluff
swift tinsel
They’ve kneejerk nerfed before I guess
lilac stag
lol echo solo pali enrage kill
severe vapor
MH and Neck
Surely wep and boots for 2nd embellish?
keen dome
They should nerf Heroic bandit so I can be lazier and pug it more easily.
severe vapor
Why neck
swift tinsel
All three rogue specs are slightly above middle of the pack on heroic 95th %
keen dome
Why neck
There's no really good sub necks this season at that ilevel
And the only close-to-it one is Crit/something and you'd need to pull it from vault. So neck is just a safe and good choice
vital siren
what is the ideal haste % for sub?
swift tinsel
as low as possible
swift tinsel
basically any haste we have on mandatory tier slots are all the haste you'll get
keen dome
Yeah
swift tinsel
everything else should be vers/mastery
vital siren
Awesome to hear! just went from 24% to 5% in 1 neck drop 😤
swift tinsel
maybe some crit mixed in if you can't get those two stats
ashen terrace
the pvp neck is good enough to not craft a neck rn
swift tinsel
vers/crit or mastery/crit are fine alternatives
esp if the vers or mastery is the heavier-budgeted stat
olive mural
Focusing lens for all content?
swift tinsel
I run lens for comfort
alpine wraith
grip and thread are better for 2t+ but not hugely
it is not like in DF
funny thing DF embellish are still better than the ones now
bright elk
anyone else still at 0piece? my season 1 tier is 613/619 :*) and im one of the last to get any tier in my guild
swift tinsel
<-
alpine wraith
you can cata 2 items so well strictly you are not 0p
bright elk
thats true but catalyzing 2 pieces before getting any real drops is risky
marble thistle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
I'm catalyzing the hero track pieces I've collected when I can switch to 4pc
but waiting to see what vault tues holds
bright elk
Ive got 4 hero track items ready to catalyze, just depends on which pieces I can get from raid and i can catalyze the rest
thick temple
Can someone explain why we need to treat vers as much as mastery now?
Fuu provided the percentage layout and it showed like 90-20-20 in terms of mast/vers/crit; is it ourdated
Sims is telling me to use masterful sapphires now
Is this outdated?
hoary lotus
Sim tells you based on what you have
fallow nimbus
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:yaml #Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
thick temple
But end of the day mastery is still like 80% while vers is 20?