feelycrafting vault posting
#subtlety
sly shore
haughty mural
keen dome
time zones baffle this man
to be fair timezones suck
pure jay
how do you not take a mythic track bis item over a heroic item
sly shore
9+10 is 21 or some shit you tell me
sly shore
sim can only show the biggest short term gain
pure jay
sim can only show the biggest short term gain
true
swift tinsel
the robot doesn't know what you're upgrading, run with max upgrade track
sly shore
so got to apply your own brain to the situation too
round drum
we wait
pure jay
i know why it says to take the gloves actually, one sec
clever delta
I'm not sure if i want house of cards in vault or not
strange chasm
mine is worse
clever delta
But playing trans is like extra affix during mythic progress
lilac stag
mythic chest to cata or heroic helm with hole
left ledge
mine is worse
at least those are myth shoulders
clever delta
We don't get more catalysts next week
cedar moss
Opinions? BIS dagger coming from Rik Reverb? Seaforium is good but is it prio over the others
sly shore
Opinions? BIS dagger coming from Rik Reverb? Seaforium is good but is it prio ov...
myth track head looks good to catalyst
smile
cedar moss
Yeah all the trinkets are within like .4% max ilvl besides eye of kezan
glass ridge
insane pull tbh
vestal escarp
bruh
elfin hull
Sims telling me taking helm is best and that the signet isnt better then either of these 2 equiped trinket. Seems wild?
warm marlin
2min trinket bad on 90s spec
left ledge
doesnt seem too wild
sub rogue has very garbage options for trinkets this tier
if they didnt nuke transmitter twice it would look even worse
sly shore
THAT REMINDS ME
I need to update the hd icons pack
I haven't updated it in multiple tiers
still missing loads of icons
vestal escarp
dw, i took a socket
troll because crests economy
heady garden
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
delicate eagle
Sims telling me taking helm is best and that the signet isnt better then either ...
this SS its incredible beaty pic omg
solemn lance
sly shore
@elfin hull what icon pack you use
worn cape
If there are other rogues in my raid team, should I still use atrophic? Assuming that at least one of the other ones is using it. Or should I consider running a different non-lethal poison?
elfin hull
<@142096577220182016> what icon pack you use
steel sierra
I guess I get.. hero track legs? I'd love Myth gloves, but they're our off-set
solemn lance
do we not break last tiers mythic 4 peice to run 2 and 2?
worn tulip
In aoe situation on begin i easy reach 30 stack of flag i ista cold blood?
Coz on second many mob die
sly shore
you use it with your 2nd sectech
or can just use sectech as third finisher if you have tfd
worn tulip
Ye but on second mob die in 10+ key
sly shore
can be fine too surely
sly shore
if you not getting the 2nd off in a 10, which I highly doubt
worn tulip
Even if I have 30 flag
sly shore
well you use it as first finisher in dance
smoky vault
Good to see that rogue is out of the top damage of a long single target boss serving as an atrophic bot only (echo kill 5/8)
sly shore
it's literally impossible to have 30 stacks before sectech
worn tulip
On aoe when you spread rapture
low pagoda
Is opener on ST Shadowstrike -> Flag -> Rupture now instead of using vanish to apply rupture?
idle aurora
Does anyone know if gallywix ring isn’t simming correctly?
slim gale
slim gale
For the first time ever, I got a good week one box
sly shore
<@83652604344664064> +10 priory pump
why is the border on icons bigger than the border on bars
smoky vault
Means tuning will be hard for blizzard without gimping sub burst. Rise assa ST will be easier I guess
safe saddle
For the first time ever, I got a good week one box
im assuming you went with HoC.. is it HoC over tier this early? I got the same choice
young mural
pisses me off alot too
wheat sentinel
Yall get good vaults?
wheat sentinel
What the hell
random hare
why is the border on icons bigger than the border on bars
idk
doesnt look like it on my screen
its just a super closeup thing
sly shore
show full screen
wheat sentinel
What am I looking at
lucid jackal
Does anyone know if gallywix ring isn’t simming correctly?
Why would it be?
ornate lake
Is there a certain minimum number of dance/symbol charges which I must have before pulling a boss? Talking about M+
gleaming plank
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
acoustic lodge
oof double BIS trinkets
lofty tapir
Real spec blah blah blah. @young mural 👎
hexed bluff
649 energy drink in vault 🙂
solemn creek
Is pacemaker sims fixed?
jagged perch
is sub hard?
hollow gyro
wat do. vault dagger or tier shoulders? crafting dagger + 2pc > vault dagger (678) + 2pc or old 4pc in sims
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> +10 priory pump
im trying a kekw build while im boosting +10s
this build was so weird
but very relaxing to play
does pretty good boss dmg
haughty mural
Raccoon being mysterious
tepid trellis
good high target dmg, not that great low target cleave
hexed bluff
Trash Panda
tepid trellis
very good boss dmg
sly shore
he's playing deathstalker
silk flower
do we just use priory on cd and have it align every third shadow blades?
hazy breach
Yes, but ideally you use something else
silk flower
maybe 626 transmitter will be fine instead
tepid trellis
he's playing deathstalker
no
modest river
Did NA get catalyst?
steep hemlock
is every dance outside of cds still a double dance?
ornate heron
its not possible to get a 626 transmitter anymore right?
since you cant upgrade s1 items?
ornate heron
wouldnt it drop lower?
tepid trellis
stuck at 626
haughty mural
glad shale
Did NA get catalyst?
no catalyst
lucid jackal
is every dance outside of cds still a double dance?
It's never double outside of Cd's
ornate heron
if you have 8 stacks of winning streak. and go into dance.. does that mean your finishers do 32% more damage?
tepid quartz
new to rogue/sub got a question is 1.2m overall on a ToP +8 good? ilvl 636
long marlin
what does the term "double dance" mean
quick comet
what does ToP mean
sly shore
what does the term "double dance" mean
2 dances back to back
steep hemlock
what does the term "double dance" mean
like using 2 dances back to back
glad shale
wouldnt it drop lower?
it'd be stuck at 616 like my contract yeah
steep hemlock
It's never double outside of Cd's
ty
leaden sail
sly shore
zee's trinket okay
fathom adder
does it need to be an empowered delve to drop the glided stuff on 11?
limpid gull
is myth signet just the best option here?
idle aurora
Why would it be?
I have a buddy who is simming it and it’s simming as a big downgrade
But it’s bis stats
I find it odd a random ring would sim better than what is listed as bis on every tier list
I know sims are important but I just find it odd
hazy breach
Probably forgot to enchant it or something. But its not an insane ring
Its just some small amount of extra stats
idle aurora
Thanks eleem
midnight folio
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046484963048050728/1349064560975544370/image.png?ex=67d1bdc7&is=67d06c47&hm=c2a941d3da9bc7b4f7470fb9490649789b386cec3223fbe30ff9befb7b14aa75&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046484963048050728/1349064561503895666/image.png?ex=67d1bdc7&is=67d06c47&hm=279ed0e31a150a9608729dabe0484e7aad2be66ae1aaf18f745809303d46240b&
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1046484963048050728/1349064561835114628/image.png?ex=67d1bdc7&is=67d06c47&hm=b82e99f150de695ae6421e0ea2dc09177116558b7d67a0ced6b0f0919b18fb53&
mastery is highest stat
by 2k over vers
shouldnt it be a direct upgrade?
sim itself is standart dslice
agile laurel
at how many targets do we use shuriken storm?
hazy breach
yes its bugged a bit in sims, just use the priory
hazy breach
at how many targets do we use shuriken storm?
3 outside dance, at 7 or more storm once in dance
ornate heron
confirmed TFD better than weaponmaster for m+?
agile laurel
3 outside dance, at 7 or more storm *once* in dance
thanks also on big pulls is their a num of ruptures me aim on applying also anyway of tracking without viewing name plates?
twilit phoenix
is it really troll to take a hero track HOC over a myth track tier chest?
hazy breach
confirmed TFD better than weaponmaster for m+?
Weaonmaster does nothing in aoe
TFD does something
ergo
Tfd better
hazy breach
If the fight is short yes
ornate heron
gotcha
hazy breach
Like sub 3-4 min tfd better
hazy breach
thanks also on big pulls is their a num of ruptures me aim on applying also anyw...
Rupture anything that will live for like 10+ seconds
When you are not in dance
quick comet
Vault Question...: Hero Trinket or Champ Set Piece (Head) ?
agile laurel
ok so spread ruptures first then go intoi dance got it
open vortex
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen marten
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
rough sigil
!wa
wicked joltBOT
wicked urchin
vault was shite but at least i went from 642 > 649 ilvl
steel merlin
something seems mildly wrong when a 639 transmitter would be simming worse than a 665 house of cards, or am I just insane?
tepid trellis
665 can sim better
split tide
what is our 4 sets do ? i am quite noob lol .
swift tinsel
its pretty straightforward if you read it
tepid trellis
what is our 4 sets do ? i am quite noob lol .
young mural
Real spec blah blah blah. <@302644373798256641> 👎
you got pissed off kiddie?
lofty tapir
you got pissed off kiddie?
Nah you went quiet and we missed you
lucid jackal
steel sierra
Sorry to add to the 700 "what to pick" posts, but could use advice on my vault. Torn between Myth Gloves (our usual off-piece) and Hero chest. I have old 4 set still, but we're re-clearing 7/8H tonight.
young mural
Nah you went quiet and we missed you
nice work getting mad asf
tepid trellis
wait until after normal / hc
steel sierra
wait until after normal / hc
That's what I was leaning towards. If I take a tier piece now and catalyst something in my bags, I COULD have 4-set. How poor of a decision in general would the gloves be if I don't get any tier?
I'd probably have them for awhile I would imagine
keen dome
Don't forget to run 5 timewalks. Could be something in that box that might influence the choice on top of normal / heroic
steel sierra
That's a good point
keen dome
And if you really wanna min/max it, doing a quick Delve map and seeing what your Heroic drop is might be worth it too. Just all the stuff that's more RNG than vault.
solemn creek
Isnt there a trinket sim?
!trinkets
Comparing them on one another
If i remember correcly. They are all close. (Beside house of card to replace transm)
bleak night
holy fuck its over
steel sierra
Back to dev
humble fjord
crystal rain
man, pacemaker has avoidance too
twilit phoenix
well done
crystal rain
but i get 4piece with hands
ashen ibex
They got me too tho
bleak night
the worst is when people send SOD patches
the best you mean
paper iron
go back to your poison and bleed channel noob bel
bleak night
no im allowed to be here
i did normal as sub
i just took mythic priory trinket from vault though so we locked in to sin
keen dome
What's your opinion on purple, Bel
lime wigeon
Think carefully
paper iron
What's your opinion on purple, Bel
lime wigeon
Even matching eyes
paper iron
sadly horde
lime wigeon
Clip the ears and it's alliance
bleak night
would probably look even better on a velf
keen dome
How does it look without the belt?
paper iron
nelf for the win
honest grail
Hi guys, sorry to be annoying with this
I would really appreciate if someone could give these logs a look
bleak night
How does it look without the belt?
feels a little empty
the belt is definitely the biggest issue though, problem is not many match
honest grail
I feel like I'm missing something, I'm really consistent but I'm stuck on blue numbers
keen dome
the belt is definitely the biggest issue though, problem is not many match
Ye. It def needs something to make it less of a skinsuit
lucid jackal
The new set looks so good
slate lantern
So many outlaws leaving the spec this season and we get the outlaw design 
slate lantern
Zeross got baited 
paper iron
zero is so bad
random hare
paper iron
easiest target
obsidian garnet
march 2024
random hare
fucking shaman players
paper iron
like an actual easy mark
slate lantern
I am nigerian prince send me gold zeross
paper iron
i m a french prince send me stuff zero
iron fjord
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
ornate lake
What's the logic behind desyncing dance and symbols (as in not macroing them)?
tepid trellis
super charging sectechs
ornate lake
So just making sure every SecTech is covered by a dance?
tepid trellis
no, sod is desynced to super charge sectech
ornate lake
Oh sorry I meant making sure every SecTech is covered by a symbol
pure dust
what does supercharged mean?
random hare
@ashen ibex btw the tech i told u about
tepid trellis
these two
gloomy slate
why is our full bis sim so bad 
random hare
its really that big
tepid trellis
why is our full bis sim so bad <:Kek:647238459395932170>
cuz blizzard suck at tuning
gloomy slate
wtf is this
random hare
and u have sectec
holy fuck
u do cracked dps
doing 20m dps at 652 ilvl is insane 
ornate lake
wtf is this
Slop
gloomy slate
our windwalker is murdering on ST
tepid trellis
casual i think coup is like tempest atm
yeh holding onto it at the end of a pull does make for some nice burst
gloomy slate
duide got mythic wep from first mythic boss lol
hazy breach
Windwalker does a lot of damage yes
Theres a reason there multiple of them on liquid and echos stream 
dense mountain
So just holding coup for next pack, then open with dance > SS > Coup > SS > SecTec?
tepid trellis
Windwalker does a lot of damage yes
wabba see something funny
grave shore
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
random hare
for whoever is interested in off sims sub tech for m+
we had abit of a discussion in outlaw channel
u can read abit
pliant topaz
We love burst
seems like they dont.
hazy breach
Thats from last tier
teal hemlock
last year
hazy breach
Yes'
vestal fog
you motherfucker you had me lookin at wowhead
random plaza
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
patent lichen
All my mythic vault options were haste boots, what is this fresh hell 
cursive vapor
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
lucid jackal
Guys it's over
naive zodiac
azure thicket
sub wants 5 set i think
spark tusk
Guys it's over
azure thicket
hoover up all the tier gear
steep hemlock
can someone pls tell me how to use a 2 min cd trinket with sub
do i legit just hold till 3rd cds
steep hemlock
im aware just the situation im in currently
hazy breach
The pvp trinket is decent
steep hemlock
blizzard will not let me restore my heroic transmitter and i didnt get mythic one rip
hazy breach
If you dont have transmitter or house of cards
wicked lark
I got head slot and leg slot from vault (both tier pieces and hero track).
Does it matter which one I pick as sub rogue? (I need both)
patent lichen
blizzard will not let me restore my heroic transmitter and i didnt get mythic on...
So you're free?! I wish
steep hemlock
so pvp trinket better then 2 min skardyns mythic ?
lucid jackal
Yep
peak prawn
!wa
wicked joltBOT
random comet
so pvp trinket better then 2 min skardyns mythic ?
PvP trinket at 558 is like 12k agi on use and crit instead of haste
Real nice option that’s easy to get
zenith vine
what is the rule regarding Coupe De Grace with new 4p again? Is it dont send it if 20s before Flag burst, and just send it otherwise?
signal heath
steel sierra
I mean, it's a good trinket, but both weeks bountiful I get the same energy drink
hazy breach
Why am i simming more now compared to yesterday????
There was some hotfixes pushed onto simcraft, nothing changed ingame, its purely simcraft changes.
tepid trellis
magic
mighty citrus
tame stone
!up
wicked joltBOT
tepid trellis
yep
slim gale
Thanks
tranquil garden
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
serene moat
Guys it's over
Where is that from?
bleak ice
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
tepid trellis
no
modest delta
y
tepid trellis
off hand is just a statstick
tranquil garden
is mechano core amplifier bait...vault is heroic that or heroic tier pants
if it's not bait that's great because it means I can stop fishing for delve knife
lucid jackal
But weapon first for sure
lilac stag
It won’t matter. Iris wins big dick sim posts by .1%
kind lagoon
Alchemical Chaos is the best flask to use in raid correct?
paper iron
Guy threw a dust patchnote
modest delta
It won’t matter. Iris wins big dick sim posts by .1%
prolly doesnnt consider little survivability from verse as well
paper iron
leaden prairie
@tepid trellis
you told me you could imune the brown circle on stiks right
both cloak and evasion or
rik reverb sorry
willow pawn
guys. why am i simming more than yesterday
leaden prairie
cloak does nothing for it
ok ty
keen dome
i gave you some loot
can I have some
leaden prairie
no
old shale
in m+ are you guys sending dances and symbol/techs same as raid on the 1m30 cadence or just sending on cd
lucid swallow
does anyone know if there are good stat weights i can put in pawn for sub?
livid sigil
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sacred yarrow
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
rugged condor
i think i read somewhere here that it's dps neutral to do blades-sechtech and sechtech-blades now yeah?
elfin hound
we use CB with second sectec right? also between big cds?
lilac stag
yes and no
Unless you can make sure you’re using it right on cd just save it for 2nd Sectech
tulip gorge
## Why am i simming more now compared to yesterday????
There was some hotfixes ...
nice sandbagging guys 
tranquil garden
what's the name of the pvp trinket that is close to transmitter
elfin hound
Unless you can make sure you’re using it right on cd just save it for 2nd Sectec...
you know how much of % gain it is?
lilac stag
it wasn’t worth it like .1 or some shit
valid flame
When you're outside of flag/blades CD do you still sec tech as first spender?
gusty plume
why are so many peoiple playing sub over assa this season in m+ high keys
old shale
dammy
lilac stag
assa has no boss dmg and people realized sub is fine for aoe and cranks boss dmg
dusty totem
Yeah sub boss dmg is insane ngl
vestal fog
i gave you some loot
Man of the people 🫡
swift tinsel
its not for everyone but its very fun
dusty totem
vers mast
gusty plume
ok
gusty plume
its not for everyone but its very fun
i used to main sub all of legion then stopped playing wow until tww
i preffer sub over assa anyway
multidotting has gotten boring
night rampart
!bs
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
sonic quail
ohh wow another nerf, cool.
young trench
look at the date
vale pine
ohh wow another nerf, cool.
wdym?
young trench
fake blueposts
bleak night
casual got people good damn
young trench
or rather old ones
swift tinsel
I think the ones people are trolling with are from march 12 2024
vale pine
to now see rogue benched even on some fights
lilac stag
you know useful CF posting shit from beta
full wyvern
Anyone know if enchanted crests are bugged right now? Went to go buy a gilded for weapon and there's none on the vendor
old kayak
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
wild tide
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
bleak night
Anyone know if enchanted crests are bugged right now? Went to go buy a gilded fo...
fine for me
olive flax
What’s like typical to be simming in at 5 min patch work right now with 4set?
native zodiac
@tepid trellis we killed, no dagger drop and i got zogged on that pull
i think delaying p2 cds is better actually
dont realy get the last set off anyways
tepid trellis
<@83652604344664064> we killed, no dagger drop and i got zogged on that pull
i would
we just saw enrage
no splits
its a bit rough
cedar swan
is there a haste breakpoint we would like to reach as sub pve
swift tinsel
nope
bleak night
only outlaw bozos need to deal with that
swift tinsel
only time we get haste is if our tier or bis trinket happens to have it
fathom gazelle
!log
old shale
When would you use ravenous honey buzzer in rotation (only trink i have 😦 )
knotty lion
Anyone know if enchanted crests are bugged right now? Went to go buy a gilded fo...
Have you checked the other vendor outside of the crafting order building? It's name is Syenite. Llande had no crests for me, but Syenite was fine.
alpine wraith
after your on use cd goes down
tepid trellis
did you do 30man hc ?
yes
alpine wraith
we were very unlucky
old shale
after your on use cd goes down
after blades window you mean?
alpine wraith
im still 0p
alpine wraith
after blades window you mean?
yea
but if it is your only on use
just use it with first shadowstrike
care about aggro tho
ornate heron
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
silk flower
is it normal to feel omega dry outside of dance/sod
quaint nimbus
Do you wanna send sectech with a certain amount of winning streak stack or is it completely passive?
lucid jackal
Ignore tier
alpine wraith
we ignore tier set unless very specific situations
basically if you have to ask
better dont play around it
quaint nimbus
ok sick thx
celest mulch
hi, maybe its been asked before but for m+ mainly do we still craft a dagger with elemental focusing lens?
split shore
valid flame
outside of blades/flag do you still send sec tech as your first spender?
alpine wraith
i got benched on gally and first 2 m bosses
lets see in 2 weeks we for sure pump trust
young mural
does anyone know how to find friends to play M+ with?
sharp kernel
does anyone know how to find friends to play M+ with?
GetGood
alpine wraith
i did my key with a random guildie
then we just kept doing some
kinda like the guy a lot now
misty dome
god i hate how you get pulled into combat before you engage
swift tinsel
take out a personal ad
young mural
go to m+ discords
do you have any?
misty dome
like i can't even stagger myself for the 4s to get first dance most of the time
swift tinsel
no, I run with guildies
misty dome
or 6s or whatever
swift tinsel
but google I'm sure has plenty
ornate heron
does someone have a WA for TFD?
for the countdown of TFD but doesnt stay on your screen the whole time?
i made one and it counts down the 5 seconds but when the buff is active it just stays on my screen and its too big. i just want to see the countdown and for it to go away when i have the buff.
misty dome
i have a small icon that pops up when i have it, like 16x16 and it's out of the way
but i can see at a glance when it's up
i just... never get to use it in keys because i get put in combat as soon as the tank pulls even if i want to hang back
ornate heron
i have a small icon that pops up when i have it, like 16x16 and it's out of the ...
does it count down the 5 seconds as its charging up?
misty dome
naw, i didn't think that was necessary
ornate heron
if tank pulls, and you hang back in stealth does your timer stop?
misty dome
since it's so short
alpine wraith
does someone have a WA for TFD?
tfd is very fucky
misty dome
the second you enter combat it blocks you from getting TFD if you don't already have it
alpine wraith
it resets the timer sometimes
misty dome
and because they don't understand rogues and stealth, they keep putting shit like this in
ornate heron
hmm okay
misty dome
it SHOULD be based entirely on my actions
if I choose to stay out of combat for 6s i should get it
but the reality is that they do some stupid combat flagging if anyone in the group is in combat, then they make our shit based on the group state and not personal state
alpine wraith
yea it is so sad
thick temple
Is using catalyst on s1 gear supposed to be free? Sim says if I cat s1 hood and replace my chest w new chest I can still rock old 4p while slowly working on next tierset
misty dome
it could be worse, we could be sin where if the tank chain pulls we never get to restealth and more than half our dps is based on that initial burst from stealth
spice escarp
s1 catalyst is free yes
thorny kestrel
looking at fuu's sheet, I most likely shouldn't break old 4 piece for old 2, new 2 huh? I'll sim it either way but from what I see, I'm supposed to wait for 4 pc
misty dome
i wish they'd move the stealth combat buffs to like shdaowstep or something
not a perfect fix but at least we're in control of that
fathom gazelle
is it ok if u BS as 2nd builder in sd other than 1st builder?
solar geode
how come i dont get accepted for keys? am i just that subtle?
raven maple
From my understanding, you only want to use symbols of death with either flagellation or Shadow dance?
keen trellis
!wa
wicked joltBOT
hazy breach
From my understanding, you only want to use symbols of death with either flagell...
Probably easier to think of it the other way around
Dont use dance without symbols
And dont use flag without being able to symbols and dance twice
old kayak
on aoe min 7 add spend coup or blast black powdeR?
swift tinsel
is it ok if u BS as 2nd builder in sd other than 1st builder?
more of a benefit as first builder than second
hazy breach
Bad to use it second if its not in blades
jaunty heath
3 outside dance, at 7 or more storm *once* in dance
we dont use to spread find weakness to?
hazy breach
Because then you dont have premed
kind bluff
We sending cds on vexie or holding for phases?
hazy breach
we dont use to spread find weakness to?
Thats why theres the "once"
young mural
3 outside dance, at 7 or more storm *once* in dance
isnt it 2 targets?
has always been 2
raven maple
Thanks
young mural
45 energy for 2 CP is better than 40 energy for 1 CP no? @hazy breach
void hound
my transmitter orb fell down the gallywix hole 😭
swift tinsel
bon voyage
alpine wraith
a message
prisma mulch
Guys, is there someone taht could help me out with rotation and overall gameplay (m+)? im kinda geared and still not able to top dps in group so i guess i am making some mistakes
alpine wraith
as rogue you wont top dps unless others are not the best
fathom gazelle
more of a benefit as first builder than second
kk ty and for blades do u send it after u press sec and before clones hit target or u blade before sec?
swift tinsel
kk ty and for blades do u send it after u press sec and before clones hit target...
as long as its before clones hit you're good, so you can send before, with, or after
alpine wraith
it has to be at least 0.4 before first copy hits
otherwise it wont buff it
but still
fathom gazelle
as long as its before clones hit you're good, so you can send before, with, or a...
tysm last question , before our 2nd flag window by like 30s , do u send SoD and CD + sec and no sd?
keen trellis
Hello, question about the optimized Opener. I vaguely remember in the above sequence that we had Vanish and now it is even so it was removed. The optimized just was not adjusted and it basically says to use CB on the 2nd SecTec? Otherwise it is pretty much the same as regular sequence and usual rotation?
alpine wraith
you dont need to vanish anymore if you stab
swift tinsel
Yeah I usually aim for mid-gcd between sectech and strike
split shore
you can do the vanish or the backstab variation
the difference is too small to matter
grim anchor
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
swift tinsel
vanish and backstab aren't mutually exclusive
void hound
paper iron
yea u can still do both
void hound
ok its not too bad
keen trellis
you dont need to vanish anymore if you stab
I vaguely remember it was something like Flag > Evis > Vanish Strike > Rup into CDs. But yea I read it does not really matter now so it got removed. So my main question is actually optimized opener is basically CB on 2nd SecTec?
swift tinsel
CB on 2nd sectech in blades is better, yeah
paper iron
basically what it s saying is that u can also keep your vanish for utlity not losing much dps
split shore
^
swift tinsel
the dps difference can be attributed to error range too, its less than minimal
keen trellis
CB on 2nd sectech in blades is better, yeah
And after that pretty much on CD with SecTec during Sod+Dance since it aligns with bigger CDs, yea?
fathom gazelle
**__Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges:__**```
#showtooltip Symbo...
this maco doesnt work if ur in m+ idk why
swift tinsel
paper iron
337
tulip gorge
anyone else feels like running out of energy when playing the first dance?
paper iron
that was my total dps in classic full bis
swift tinsel
yuge
keen dome
https://tenor.com/view/rogue-warcraft-wow-gif-11008475980691198481
living the life
Replace the S&D with Eviserate and that's Sub outside cooldowns
swift tinsel
hey we rupture like one time
paper iron
46s of sinister strike to get 52s of snd rolling, sometimes u can even squish a low cp eviscerate
swift tinsel
viable rotation strategy with Hunt them Down
fathom gazelle
when do storm once in sd ? 2t+?
swift tinsel
7+
tepid trellis
7+
paper iron
rogue in cata looks already less melee damage, more buttons pressed 
fathom gazelle
oh rly ,ty , outside of cds is it ok to storm as builder?
feels giga nice tbh on 2+
paper iron
if flawless form is active
yes
here the aoe priority, pretty simple once u understand how trickster plans and stuff
thorny rivet
How many times should I fling out sd/sod/sec between 90s bursts. I’ve just been sending based on when sec comes up but hold if 90s is about to come off cd within like 10ish seconds
paper iron
i would hold dance / sod if flag is under 30s, and hold sectech if flag is under 20s. this is just based on my feelings
thorny rivet
Okay I’ve been playing around with it and sometimes it checks out and other times I’m a sd short or my sec is behind a few seconds. Rarely run out of sod
delicate rover
I’m sad I want to make an alt but nothing ranged plays like sub I’ve been spoiled lol
tropic river
Just swapped from assassination to sub, there's so much stuff to take in all at once. I follow the guide on wowhead, after i'm done with opener i'm so confused on what rotation to do waiting for cds to come back up
plush pecan
Is it worth crafting double dagger? wont be doing much mythic raiding if at all
alpine wraith
nope off hand dagger is not strong
delicate rover
Iirc if you bounce between sub amd sin it’s not terrible
plush pecan
So one crafted then m+ and hc for the second
hazy breach
Craft literally anything else and its better
Offhand is the worst slot
Mainhand is very important though
vale pine
^
lucid jackal
I feel like best 2nd craft is just a neck
vale pine
offhand dps get reduced, and is barely in any damage calculations
hazy breach
vale pine
I feel like best 2nd craft is just a neck
ring, neck, boots, bracers, belt, back all seem good
hazy breach
Possible if you have stuff to upgrade that the best use of your crest is actually to upgrade other stuff rather than crafting a new piece 
lucid jackal
The issue is that every neck is bad this tier
Kwim
Like there's literally no good alternative even
gloomy slate
no house of cards in vault 
vocal lantern
I can’t believe I slept on this spec for so long I love sub wth
grave delta
Like there's literally no good alternative even
pvp neck 
gloomy slate
The issue is that every neck is bad this tier
perfecto using the pvp one 
delicate rover
It’s a bit much at first but when you get it you get it
hoary lotus
The issue is that every neck is bad this tier
Cleft neck?
vocal lantern
Cleft neck is nice no?
delicate rover
Also lets you do two gems slots for pretty cheap by comparison for neck
glossy turtle
I have been having some rather bad keys lately, with very low dmg. im just trying to learn 🙂 would love if I could get some feedback on this. this would be a very pretty bad run https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/qfPyT1WRzk7Gbd46?fight=last .
delicate rover
Downside is pvping lol
glossy turtle
somehow its merged, but It was the Darkflame cleft
ruby sonnet
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
delicate rover
bleh I wanted a second weapon. guess ill craft a necklace or cloak or somethin lol
kindred thistle
bro wtf why outlaw is simming higher
hazy breach
Ill just delete so people dont get baited by 1 year old patch notes
craggy quest
half comet
eager iris
gucci talentss build for 3rd HC boss raid? or raid in general?
granite river
@random hare is the hidden sec tech buff you refer to in outlaw channel the hero talent?
hazy breach
Disorienting strikes yes
granite river
That’s why sec tech pre key?
granite river
Ok yeah makes sense
hazy breach
I dont think its a huge gain on average
random hare
Get ur dps up guys
hazy breach
But it prevents the unlucky cases
granite river
I’m trying brother
random hare
We need to get invited in keys often
random hare
I dont think its a huge gain on average
Coup saving is good in average
With tier stacks and shit
granite river
Coup save like you also say in outlaw
granite river
But that also different from pre key tech
short aurora
help
hazy breach
Coup saving is good in average
Burst with 2x coups in blades with fully stacked tier goes hard
short aurora
what's the command
hazy breach
!up
wicked joltBOT
short aurora
tyty
random hare
Burst with 2x coups in blades with fully stacked tier goes hard
Ya
Should’ve seen ptr sub oh man
That shit was wild op
hazy breach
ik
granite river
When you do the coup into sec tech with that you wait for fazed to proc instead of forcing proc with sec tech?
brazen steppe
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
granite river
When you do the coup into sec tech with that you wait for fazed to proc instead ...
Oh but you get fazed insta bc disorienting strikes
proven plover
thats not real
swift tinsel
u right
bleak ice
!BS
wicked joltBOT
Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.
proven plover
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
swift tinsel
def made it up
keen dome
I hope you do
wicked urchin
the reality is though
the game can sense how much i hate transmitter and will keep me with it until dinars
fiery flax
Is transmitter actually as busted as bloodmallet shows?
wicked urchin
yes
wicked urchin
no it got nerfed twice
not enough
keen dome
If you don't have a Mythic transmitter, then the pvp trinket is a viable alternative with way less terrible minigames
swift tinsel
normal HoC in vault, minor ray of hope if raid drops are total bunk tonight/thurs
keen dome
Nice
I'm really torn on hoC. Like, I'm gonna get it bracketless with a dinar sooner than later and I'm not pushing content above 10's / heroic. So like.
swift tinsel
also hero track tier to mix n match if things are okay
keen dome
Unless I win it in the raid, I guess I pick other stuff first
swift tinsel
Yeah same, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna prio 4pc over hoc
keen dome
Same, yeah
swift tinsel
but we'll see what raid drops
wicked urchin
Which one is the pvp trinket?
swift tinsel
could get omega lucky
spiral needle
if you cast secret tech, then complete transmitter task before clones hit, do they benefit from it, or does it have to be active during initial cast?
wicked urchin
mind you i've basically never done pvp in my life
only sims 3k less than 626 transmitter so if i get desperate off to the mines i go
swift tinsel
dang, 2pc 2pc is a gain for me
pulsar lintel
How much of a difference is there in running 2x focusing lens vs ascendance and double embellish effect?
subtle zodiac
If you don't have a Mythic transmitter, then the pvp trinket is a viable alterna...
is the DPS loss huge or no?
hazy breach
A lot of people arent even running embellishments right now because 650 ilvl items are better than their old 636 crafted with embellishments
Compared to hc its not a huge loss no
steel sierra
I'm leaning towards Hero Legs. Guild wants 4p before raid. Myth track gloves with shit stats we don't want vs hero legs
subtle zodiac
i have mythic transmitter
wicked urchin
mythic would be significant
pulsar lintel
Ty Eleem
subtle zodiac
fuck
keen dome
is the DPS loss huge or no?
You should probably sim it, I don't know what it is for Mythic. I suspect that is a pretty big loss in comparison.
wicked urchin
it's a 3k loss for me and im running heroic
keen dome
But N/H are so close in value that it's not a big deal to swap to it, imo
keen dome
That's also a 2 minute trinket, though
subtle zodiac
true
wicked urchin
transmitter makes makes me enjoy sub at least 25% less
subtle zodiac
i actually hate it with a passion
i feel like half my openers end up with me messing something up because im running around trying to catch a ball
swift tinsel
def getting tier or hoc from timewalking cache
wicked urchin
i have a lot of tension in my thumb from tendonitis and i actually struggle with the jumping one fairly often
esp. on opener
subtle zodiac
^^^^^^^^^^this
keen dome
Swapping to the pvp trinket was way more of a gain than anything else I could've used just 'cos I'm not losing my marbles chasing a marble
swift tinsel
do you have to shuffle or blitz to get conquest for it?
wicked urchin
maybe i shouldn't have put like 8k hours into apex legends
subtle zodiac
do you have to shuffle or blitz to get conquest for it?
just win an epic BG
lilac blade
did na getting a catalyst charge?
keen dome
do you have to shuffle or blitz to get conquest for it?
just conquest
It's 700 conquest.
So weekly quests + war mode stuff and a few BG's. Easypeasy
swift tinsel
Hmmmge
keen dome
Took me 2 hours or something to grind it and that was after I'd already used quests to buy a pvp ring I ended up not needing
tepid trellis
@native zodiac 0,8% wipe
wicked urchin
surely i won't need to do that because i'm getting it tonight though
our trial got it last week because for some god forsaken reason we don't do loot council
trials getting shit like that over main team is fucking wild to me
native zodiac
<@165886627976183808> 0,8% wipe
think i had 2.05 on our kill
prob one of my worst pulls into p3 
though
sly shore
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
ornate heron
you can upgrade pvp trinket to 658 without rating right?
keen dome
Yep
hazy breach
ye
keen dome
It's just conq to buy. Since PvP items just scale in PvP themselves, all upgrades are pve
ornate heron
is it better than priory?
wicked urchin
almost certainly yeah
sim tho
gonna pull a HoC from this timewalking cache
calling it
manifesting
subtle zodiac
1.5%
steel zinc
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
ionic robin
!log
stoic lark
!wa
wicked joltBOT
slender abyss
how big is nerf?
slender abyss
stealthi
tepid trellis
wat?
vale pine
<@165886627976183808> 0,8% wipe
rip
twilit phoenix
Rik riverb dedge
how did he feel? way harder than hero or what?
ornate heron
sim tho
its hard to sim because my other trinket is pacemaker and it doesnt use priory at the correct times
molten citrus
how big is nerf?
What
tepid trellis
how did he feel? way harder than hero or what?
alot harder
twilit phoenix
alot harder
how many pulls did it take you guys?
hazy breach
Holding third set for adds or no
Guess you dont get a fifth cast anywyay most likely
twilit phoenix
i saw it took both rwf teams like sub 5 pulls
twilit phoenix
they're also giga sweats but idk
tepid trellis
we really needed barrel dmg
hazy breach
Prob not after reset
tepid trellis
i saw it took both rwf teams like sub 5 pulls
41
we only have 3 4sets
it was a bit rough
twilit phoenix
ah so you guys proper progged it
yeah hopefully we fill out a few more 4 sets and get there by wed or thursday night
i hear cauldron is pretty gg
either way, grats
no dagger???
hazy breach
More than 10% since you get vaults n more loots
twilit phoenix
huge myth track dagger for stealthi?!
tepid trellis
hazy breach
Stix and sprocket seem rough though
twilit phoenix
god we are fucking gaming
ggs that's huge
i'm the only rogue in the group, so if it drops i'd be gooning on stream for you guys
sleek musk
rain stratus
Is Radiant Power an actual thing for raiding, or is just because of the m+ week 1 spam?
tepid trellis
better for cleave
ornate heron
!craft
swift crest
Developers’ notes: We’re making a few significant changes to Subtlety’s damage modifiers that when stacked together can cause very high burst damage. Our goal for these changes is to decrease the maximum output, but increase the consistency of Subtlety’s burst windows. We would like to ensure that they are a threat even without all these modifiers present, but have their high-end output capabilities be more in line with damage expectations.
Finality now increases finisher damage by 8/15% (was 15/30%).
Shadow Blades now duplicates finishers at 10% effectiveness (was 15%).
Darkest Night now increases the damage of Eviscerate by 10% (was 19%).
Symbolic Victory now increases Eviscerate or Black Powder damage by 10% (was 18%).
Danse Macabre now increases damage by 2% per stack (was 4%).
Backstab damage increased by 20%.
Gloomblade damage increased by 20%.
Shadowstrike damage increased by 20%.
Rupture damage increased by 25%.
Eviscerate damage increased by 25%.
Secret Technique damage increased by 10%.
tepid trellis
so why are we posting pvp changes?
lucid jackal
so why are we posting pvp changes?
Any Nerf = 9/11
brisk creek
what are u guys taking in this scenario, the bis raid trinket champion track or the hero track tier helmet?
crystal rain
Ya'll track stacks on 4p? or just let it go raw
naive socket
should i use my charge on a hero piece?
hexed dagger
I thought you didnt actually have to use all 4 gem colors to get the crit effect
granite river
Ya'll track stacks on 4p? or just let it go raw
Track bro
Think about it, damage amp incoming, what ima do, lose stacks or keep them
sudden bison
does sub take 2pc ASAP or hold out till 4p?
crystal rain
Think about it, damage amp incoming, what ima do, lose stacks or keep them
got a wa for this?
granite river
Any win streak wa on wago will work
But you could also make one so ez, and if you like wow it’s worth to take a lil time to figure out basic wa stuff
swift tinsel
you don't really need to track it if you know the amp is coming bc you're gonna try to preserve them no matter how many you have
dusty totem
Yeah but maybe u start preserving earlier if u have 10 stacks
swift tinsel
well that would be weird bc you can't get 10
dusty totem
True true played too much ptr
granite river
You know what he mean bro
dusty totem
8 now i guess
subtle jay
!stats
wicked joltBOT
The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste
crystal rain
Dumb question incoming, but in scenario where you're not using BP, what abilities do Shadow dmg for the tier set % increase
obtuse osprey
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
Dumb question incoming, but in scenario where you're not using BP, what abilitie...
Eviscerate, secret technique
dense mountain
do you ever press coup in large pulls (7+) to stack flawless before going back to BP?
plush roost
Always
crystal rain
I thought Sectec was physical
hazy breach
The initial hit is
But the clones that spawn do shadow
And theyre like 75% of the damage
crystal rain
Ahhh gotcha, thanks
paper iron
it feels like it s really missunderstood what does shadow damage as sub. It s often asked
empty oyster
is there any spark or catalist this new week?
daring agate
So, I do good damage when I have symbols and SD, sure, but if I ever find a moment when I'm out I hit like a limp noodle. Is this normal?
lilac stag
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
twilit phoenix
is there any spark or catalist this new week?
Neither to both
daring agate
Gotcha. So in that instance, on boss fights. I start off huge, then by the end of the fight I drop to middle of the pack. I assume that's where I'm expected to be? Lol
molten citrus
are you playing your CDs correctly
daring agate
Yes.
molten citrus
molten citrus
where you are on the meter depends on how well you play, how well everyone else plays, how good everyones gear is, etc, etc, etc
daring agate
Of course that comes into play, sure. But if the spec is designed to have drastic highs and drastic lows, those lows impact the overall damage by the end of the fight
tepid trellis
it all evens out
daring agate
I'm just making sure if everyone experiences that or if I am, in fact, doing something wrong
I'm 640, did the carnage fight (the gorilla and dino) started off top of the meters at almost 3m, by the end I was barely in the 900k range
paper iron
racoon give me 4p now, stop being selfish
tepid trellis
I'm 640, did the carnage fight (the gorilla and dino) started off top of the met...
that does sound like you are doing something wrong
autumn glade
Yeah, that's too hard of a drop off lol
plush roost
Im usually top 5 on meters as sub so yeah definitely something going wrong there haha
hexed dagger
the week 1 logs are so funny. dudes already with 4 set, heroic house of cards, jastor diamond
plush roost
Splits op
autumn glade
Too much speculation without a log too look at but, lots of people just mess up using their dances or symbols between flag + blades and either delay or gimp their cd window
plush roost
Gey rekt
tepid trellis
NOT OKAY
plush roost
Gonna be me in about 4 hrs pal
daring agate
Too much speculation without a log too look at but, lots of people just mess up ...
I've been using flag/blades with ny first symbol dance. Is that right or wrong?
autumn glade
I mean, that's the standard opener, yes lol
I'm talking about next set of CDs after opener
daring agate
Ya that's where im having issues. I do the correct opener, followed by another symbol dance. And then usually save my third symbol for when dance is back of cd. Then I'm just BSing until cooldowns come back and my damage drops severely
autumn glade
Again, too much speculation on what things you may or may not be messing up without looking at a log
daring agate
Fair enough
fathom gazelle
for m+ sims , and for more accurate result , mdt sims or dslice?
tepid trellis
just do dslice for gearing for m+
young mural
hey dudes
tepid trellis
they give the same results
young mural
why rogues cant reset bosses again?
fathom gazelle
they give the same results
naive socket
when do we black powder?
young mural
fucking insanely irritating
daring agate
when do we black powder?
7+ targets
naive socket
ty
paper iron
this is far from a perfect play, it was day 1 of the patch i was messing arround the rotation and the spec. But it looks something like that. (Gosh i sure super mess up my 2nd set of cd what is that low cock&balls)
daring agate
Even in dance window, shuriken black powder on 7+
young mural
does anyone know? why since this expansion dropped, rogues cant reset raid bosses like they used to?
tepid trellis
@leaden prairie this is what i did, normal numbers are just a regular dance
icy mulch
someone yoinked my rank 1 Rik riverb
Do they got you doing an amp soak?