subtlety

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[swift crest]

we are a ce guild but no mythi this week ig

[honest saddle]

yeah, even when you get a dagger

[warm marlin]

even if you get a mythic dagger from raid this week you can just swap dagger to oh

[late vine]

ty

[honest saddle]

you can just put it in offhand,

EXACTLY

[twilit phoenix]

you can just put it in offhand

[swift crest]

im crafting a fat af dagger

but with what embels

[warm marlin]

technically oh is kind of a bad craft so if you knew you were getting a mythic dagger you wouldnt want to craft

but

[twilit phoenix]

you can just put it in offhand

[twilit phoenix]

yeah and then when mythic drops

you can put it in offhand

[honest saddle]

YOU CAN JUST PUT IT IN OFFHAND, IDIOT

THIS GUY

[swift crest]

what embel

[honest saddle]

the lense

[twilit phoenix]

lens or ascension

if you dual spec sin

(LMAO)

[honest saddle]

somnius

I like you

[serene owl]

I’m simmimg 600k patchwork 2 mins 630ilvl am I cooked or what

[twilit phoenix]

put me in ur offhand

[swift crest]

i do duel spec

[honest saddle]

something is wrong with that sim whoze

link it please

[serene owl]

Haha I’m messing I’m In queue for it to complete

But wouldn’t be suprised

[twilit phoenix]

i bet he has a sword equipped

or something

[serene owl]

🤣🤣

[honest saddle]

But but, this mace has an on use

here me out my dudes.

[serene owl]

My dagger broke in rookery I was using a mace to hide the obvious fists

[dusk sparrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest saddle]

can a rogue equip a 2 hand weapon and white swing with it

we can't right?

[alpine wraith]

nope too weak

[honest saddle]

I am thinking about a world with a 1 hander mace that has an on use cantrip

where we weapon swap mid fight and use the cantrip

and go back to daggers

can we still weapon swap?

[pallid hollow]

is there a weakaura that makes a sound when shadowdance ends? just like the subterfuge one for outlaw

[lilac stag]

You can likely make one

Or edit your current one

[void ocean]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[mint swift]

Going assa tonight but half tempted to play sub boss 1

But i have no idea how to play it atm XD

[serene owl]

1.44m patchwerk 2min 630ilvl no 4 set not bad I guess?

I would get like 900k though on dummies so god damn im doing suten wrong LOL

[pallid hollow]

i had to ask this and i forgor, what is the purpouse of vanish in sub apart from not dying on a wipe on a boss?

[hollow spear]

Getting premed for cp

[pallid hollow]

and when to use it?

[hollow spear]

Check the guides, they should explain

Basically on CD tho

[mint lodge]

What poisons do we apply for st?

[pallid hollow]

ok

[obtuse shard]

should we use 2+2 tier

[pulsar mauve]

!wax

[wicked jolt]

Bubbling wax:

• Can be pickpocketed from kobolds in e.g. The Ringing Deeps. (needs The Final Candle questline completed.)
• Only use it on one weapon. (does not stack)

[twilit phoenix]

i only send cds on trash

[vague laurel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[glossy turtle]

lemme refresh

XD

at what time do I wanna hold dance and symbols? is it at like 40 sec until flag is up?

[twilit phoenix]

ya around 40 secs is good

[glossy turtle]

ok

that was an intense brain lag XD

[twilit phoenix]

if I don't have a shaman with me, I hold it for longer tbh

like 40-50

soryr

30-40**

w/o a shaman you can get some really bad ST rng

[glossy turtle]

I thought shaman just gave mastery buff

[twilit phoenix]

and then just be sitting there with dance on cd

well, they proc an extra melee hit

and that has a chance of additional ST stacks

[glossy turtle]

I see

[twilit phoenix]

so it's huge for CP

[glossy turtle]

we have a sham

[glossy turtle]

great

[twilit phoenix]

it's like 8-10% extra damage for sub iirc

[glossy turtle]

damn

XD

[vestal fog]

How do i fix coupe de gra bug, it keeps lighting up but had 0 in dmg breakdown

[alpine wraith]

alt f4

[vestal fog]

Sadge

[alpine wraith]

then go in again

[vestal fog]

Gotta love bugs :^))

[twilit phoenix]

wait what's the bug

[glossy turtle]

wouldnt be wow without em

[vestal fog]

Evis keeps being lit up as if coupe is ready but there's no stacks

[twilit phoenix]

[hoary orchid]

can i have 3 embelished items equiped?

[hollow snow]

No

[wild hornet]

is it like that for

anyone else?

[twilit phoenix]

this one of the new delves?

[wild hornet]

yeah its called loading screen

im gonna be late for raid

sweet

[twilit phoenix]

damn how early do you raid

are you an eu gamer?

[wild hornet]

yes

been grinding keys while the americans were fast asleep

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/call-from-based-department-gif-25645857

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jolly pasture]

i swear to god man this is the most anti melee season of all time

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[twilit phoenix]

holy based let's fucking go

[swift crest]

do i need do use any weird gems for elemental focus

[twilit phoenix]

would be optimize to start dance without any cps?

so we don't waste the premed

[vale pine]

you start dance always on low or full combo points

[twilit phoenix]

if we go into dance with full cps

would we want to dump them first, before sending the backstab?

[vale pine]

we secret or evis then

yes

[twilit phoenix]

so, optimally, would be it dance -> evisc -> BS -> sectech

with SOD in there somewhere

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fiery garnet]

homies, do I swap house of cards 645 for hc transmitter? I wonder...

[rocky wolf]

sim it

but if its close prob swap

[fiery garnet]

idk if the sims can account for the burst dmg

[random comet]

I simmed it last night and 626 transmitter was 0.6 behind 659 house for me

But I would change in a heartbeat to throw that thing in the garbage

[lethal thorn]

is the spreed sheet talent updated look like previous season to me

[rocky wolf]

talents havnt really changed

[next pulsar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[red raven]

yeah for me and a few of my guild

[vale pine]

it is

[tidal nacelle]

why some people use authority of the depths and others authority of radiant power enchant?

[wild hornet]

whichever sims higher

[full acorn]

Is it worth to Switch to 2 set from old 4

[random comet]

Depths best ST, radpow best aoe

[alpine pollen]

the dagger cheese works also on recraft S1 or?

[tidal nacelle]

cheers

[tidal nacelle]

aight nice

[void ocean]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[dry plank]

omg all our shamans rerolled or what. I do not have shaman in raid

[swift tinsel]

/camp

go agane

[dry plank]

they were nerfed into ground or what?

[swift tinsel]

nah they're still quite good

just not turbo broken like they were in s1

[dry plank]

how am i suppose to play without shaman 😦

[vale pine]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lucid jackal]

Ive been hitting the thug shaker in these dungeons

Sub feels so strong rn

[paper iron]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

what 7% more juice does to a mfing spec

[void hound]

yeh sub feels good

[vestal escarp]

[broken swallow]

tier 11 sliuce is so much faster than kriegvals holy fuck

[midnight geyser]

Do we hold cb after opener

Or just send on cd

[hazy breach]

With second sectech in blades

[midnight geyser]

So we hold

For each blade

We don’t send in between

[bleak night]

you can use it once between blades just dont mess it up

if you think you will then dont send it

[swift crest]

only 2.4mil?

[twilit phoenix]

how do we get that delver map

i remeber seeing some guide that shows you how to just get it

am I cooked

[swift crest]

@vale pine did i do it right

[bleak night]

you can buy an item that summons the underpin guy in a delve

[twilit phoenix]

oh shit right

[bleak night]

then kill him for the map

[twilit phoenix]

the scrambler thing

[bleak night]

ye

[twilit phoenix]

based ty king

[bleak night]

but you dont get as much undercoins as the wowhead post said

ive done 5 bountifuls and dont have enough yet lmao

[twilit phoenix]

oh shit

might do that this weekend then

instead of malding about it rn

[potent relic]

s2 pvp on use trinket seems worth using over heroic transmitter? sim is showing minor dps loss at 645 (< 1%) but then i wouldn't have to worry about the mini game for the sidegrade lol

[alpine wraith]

they nerfed the weekly

so yea you need to do more than 4 bountifuks

[weak horizon]

Anybody know how to get rid of this on enemy nameplates? The sunfire icon, for example. I think it's enemy cooldowns on nameplates

[vale pine]

sub wants mastery/vers but else perfect

[slate lantern]

Kek wrong missive

[swift crest]

FUCK

[valid vault]

!fuu

[gritty knot]

how on earth did u get those crests so fast

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[upbeat sorrel]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fathom sequoia]

do we have a full spark?

[slate lantern]

you get one fractured spark and there is the start of the season quest to make you one

[fathom sequoia]

oh cool

[fallen fable]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mint lodge]

Hey guys, quick question... if were planning on switching between sub/ass is it better to gear for one or the other to avoid dps drop off?

[peak lantern]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vestal fog]

is good, just recraft it with vers/mast and equip it again for the free upgrade for 2nd dagger

[random comet]

probably go mastery at least

i'd personally pick sub since vers always has an upside even if the damage is lower

usually all you need is a couple of bits of jewellery to swap to change secondaries

find a couple of very crit-heavy bits for your assass set and you're golden

[mint lodge]

Awesome thanks mate appreciate that

[indigo steppe]

Can I re craft a season 1 636 dagger if I get a S2 crest or do they require a new spark as well?

[warm depot]

need new spark

[indigo steppe]

Thanks!

[void hound]

does anyone have a weakaura to track the tier set?

didnt see one in the pinned categories

[lilac stag]

Just make one with WA. It’s super easy. Just a buff to track

use the templates

[thick temple]

Does this mean I need to get crafting mats again? Or just recraft w new spark

[warm depot]

recraft with new spark

[formal pollen]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[simple garnet]

Wow spreadsheet says outlaw is taking us to gapplebees this tier

[shrewd lantern]

Outlaw always sims high on patchwerk

Though rik being one of the pure st bosses this tier with like 30s of downtime is going to hurt them more.

[molten citrus]

!sod @grand flame

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[earnest harness]

bois, sub the big D spec for M+ this season?

[honest grail]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd lantern]

It's probably still a sin season for keys

unless boss damage is THAT relevant.

[upper cosmos]

is there a WA that can help me keep track of my SD SoD casts so I can tell when I've used my 2 inbetween cd's and to hold for the next burst

[shrewd lantern]

Also iron wire is still super gross a tool to have.

[white thunder]

stop hyping assa, no one wants to play that

[simple garnet]

Yeah it feels boring after playing sub

[delicate rover]

So trickster is fun can we still do the brann cheese with ToTT?

[modest delta]

isnt best embellish focusing iris?

[earnest harness]

I'm a bit soft in the head chief, this telling me outlaw is the spec for now?

[swift tinsel]

sim dps isn't representative of raid performance

outlaw vs sub, it just shows the mean so outlaw looks better

[midnight geyser]

!craft

[midnight geyser]

on pen and paper yes

but whe nyou factor in how hard outlaw is to paly

with fight design

and the fact you dont have full bis

sub is better experimentally

[swift tinsel]

you're comparing completely different damage profiles

[midnight geyser]

craft weapon is bis rn right

[swift tinsel]

its also why using sims to compare specs is problematic

[earnest harness]

yes, one is literally a flat line, the other is bi-polar schizophrenic :S

[shell delta]

Coup de grace builded but wont replace icons?

[midnight geyser]

weapon craft is bnsi overall right

no point in holding

[granite river]

yeah i mean

[swift tinsel]

yes, weapon craft will net more upfront dps this early

[granite river]

unless you getting a mythic wep in raid even then

[midnight geyser]

i got a normal one yesterdat

642

get that 645 from craft

sheeesh

[steel sierra]

Could use a hand with raidbots. I have the tier helm plus a normal curio. How can I sim a second tier piece from the curio to compare what the most value 2nd tier piece would be?

[swift tinsel]

run a bunch of 2's or kill gallywix after doing the campaign and craft a 658

if you're not crafting a 675 already

[midnight geyser]

vers mastery is bis stats right

[swift tinsel]

but if you already have a normal dagger that goes up to 658 then its whatever

[midnight geyser]

no time to do any of that im so busy with school and sats

ill recraft next week when i c\an push 10's during march break

[misty condor]

Can someone better than me help me understand what puts Azerokk's Resonating Heart in B-Tier behind the alchemist stone?

[sand ore]

NO

[misty condor]

Understandable, thanks

[swift tinsel]

procs can be troll

if they don't come in your big cooldown windows they don't really matter that much

[bleak night]

14k agility for your backstabs tho

[swift tinsel]

yuge

[misty condor]

Now we're talking. Eviscerate? Secret Technique? Bro I only use backstab

[shrewd lantern]

better to have secondary proc primary passive

than the reverse

[misty condor]

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks

[lapis hatch]

That’s misinformation as it depends on tuning. Whatever sims the highest wins

[shrewd lantern]

You mean dependent on proc rate.

[young heart]

What is the command to pop the spreadsheet again?

[misty condor]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[young heart]

tyvm

[worthy pulsar]

guys, if you were about to send symbols+sectec (without sd), how many secs of dance left you decide to wait for dance to be up instead?

[serene owl]

you know after the sub opener is it kind of backstab evis build till secret tech / shadow dance is off CD then just fullsend Shadow dance symbols secret tech shadowstrike evis etc till it goes back to backstab evis basically? or shuriken obviously in aoe shuriken evis

[delicate rover]

am I imagining things or does black powder feel like crap

then again after secret technique everything feels like crap by comparison

[misty condor]

I don't think it's just you, I'd rather eviscerate a prio target and cleave w/ nimble flurry than black powder wet noodle slap

[marble ledge]

at this point is Bubbling Wax strictly worse than Ironclaw Whetstone?

[solar charm]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[delicate rover]

Its the cheaper option right now but when in doubt . . .

https://tenor.com/view/sim-simyoself-gif-20048910

[honest saddle]

Rik isnt single target. Quite a bit of aoe on it

[flint parrot]

!symb

guys can u show the symbols spam macro please

[vale pine]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[delicate rover]

oh my god thank you

[remote blaze]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[delicate rover]

The delve build made me realize how much I imss gloomblade idk why

[near stratus]

does raidbots have set bonuses implemented? breaking 4pc for new gloves/shoulders tier is -15k?

i know gloves not ideal

[vale pine]

can probablly play it when using the gloomblade in dance optimization

[vale pine]

yes, tier set is implemented

make sure you have all pieces of the correct tierset

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[fleet acorn]

i always fall of the edge on last boss

shadowstep xd

[shrewd lantern]

More cleave than aoe

Seems a decent raid for rogue damage profile wise

[delicate rover]

anyone else notice shadow step not working in some delves? I couldnt shadow step to the weird uh.. void thing in the chest

[cedar eagle]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[delicate rover]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[steady island]

Death from Above seems to count as 2 evis & is getting darkest night in 1 less global. Fun to play with

On the way back down Darkest night triggers

[left ledge]

World first already claimed

GG

[delicate rover]

who got it?

[steady island]

holy shit

[full wyvern]

!sod

[left ledge]

A bunch of ret paladins

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[elder blade]

guys there is a macro to autoredirect to tank? i remember that i used an aura on df

[pulsar hemlock]

Fkn figures

[waxen plover]

Will we go 2/2 set or wait for 4 set ?

[swift magnet]

There is a weakaura
https://wago.io/-sGUjfZfZ

[hazy breach]

4

[vale pine]

new 2p is fairly weak after nerfs, so we want the new 4p asap

[waxen plover]

okay i wait swap then (:

[swift tinsel]

banking some catalyst-able slots in my bags to hard swap as soon as I can

[lilac stag]

Or you run 2+2 assa

[delicate rover]

im curious whats the hardest hitting shadow tech youve seen so far

[stoic sphinx]

@vale pine sorry if you already know but Mythic+ Build ← Play this code seems broken for me. just says CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2m

[keen marten]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pEz7PJH6zbFeRmKujUSPNY

Is my 2p2p worse than old 4p or is it not simming the set buff correctly?

[stoic sphinx]

hm these all have the same issue for me

okay nvm popped it up in firefox and it worked

nvm sorry

[clever delta]

ez

[wild tide]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

ill check in a moment

thanks

oh

[random hare]

@leaden prairie

[fallen crescent]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[delicate rover]

I gotta sim it but i wonder if rank 2 sharpening stones are better than wax

cant quite spam craft rank 3s myself

[pure jay]

wait

subs ST and Dungeon Slice builds are the same specs?

[vale pine]

the diffrence is one talent point

you move shadow focus to improved storm

but you can absolutely play with improved storm always

[pure jay]

your spreadsheet has the same string im p sure

might be missing it

[vale pine]

because the diffrence in output is low

ill check tomorrow

oh

must be a issue

ill re-run the sim tommorow morning

[delicate rover]

I think for aoe/cleave stuff the wax will still pull ahead hmm

[steel zinc]

Amm the crest saving tech for a crafted weapon doesnt work anymore

Anyone else got that issue?

[alpine wraith]

told ya

[twilit phoenix]

reported

[alpine wraith]

caught in 4k

[lilac stag]

Shadow focus gets you like 1 extra backstab over a 5 min fight. I personally prefer the absorb shield you can take if you take storm.

[steel zinc]

yup

[shrewd lantern]

is shadow focus actually better than imp shadowtech

[hexed dagger]

we out here

[twilit phoenix]

sheeeeeeeeesh

is that a maxxed out normal or heroic kezan?

[random hare]

How to get spark?

[twilit phoenix]

do the weekly

[hexed dagger]

heroic

[random hare]

Ty

[twilit phoenix]

the one in dorn

[random hare]

How did I not know man I should’ve done it pre raid

Fml

Would’ve 100’ed all bosses

Rip

[alpine wraith]

any pinnacle chest drops spark

[twilit phoenix]

oh I didn't know this

[alpine wraith]

i just preconpleted the teather last week

[twilit phoenix]

thanks for clarifying

[alpine wraith]

and got it from there

[lapis hatch]

Dependent on trinket tuning which includes proc rate, yes lol

[shrewd lantern]

It's what 60 gildeds for a craft?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[random hare]

Idk why I want to ask this but

Is crafting a dagger gonna suck long term or

Probably a solid craft right

[shrewd lantern]

I mean offhand is a low impact slot overall

isnt it

[hazy breach]

Well ye

But your crafting a mainhand

[random hare]

Ya

[rancid lichen]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[shrewd lantern]

Well you will eventually move it to offhand

[hazy breach]

Ye but that could take a while

[random hare]

Ye

Ok

Yea that should be the plan for tomorrow

Gn chat

[pure jay]

god my parses suck qq

[shrewd lantern]

did they fix crafting bug

[bleak night]

a lot of people have been here saying it didnt work

[frozen lichen]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale osprey]

Hey guys - is there an appropriate place to get help with some bits from my logs? Logged pretty DOG is heroic today but felt like I had fundamentals down (I clearly do not)

[hexed dagger]

if I want real delve gear can someone explain what im supposed to do?

just spam tier 8 bountifuls and spend my keys?

[bleak night]

pretty much

can only do 4 a day but you probably dont have many more keys than that anyway

[hexed dagger]

yeah word ok

and if I get a map, do I do anything special?

[bleak night]

just run any 8

doesnt even have to be bountiful

[hexed dagger]

okay

ty

[lilac stag]

Run 3 11s for crests if you need them. They’re fun now since they’re slightly challenging.

[civic lava]

1st day of M+ and Hero raid, playing sub for 1st time since LEgion ( and a bit early bfa) , boy am i bad

Let's hope it get better :p

[lilac stag]

I think they call it washed

just keep at it.

[delicate rover]

practice practice practice it'll become second nature

[civic lava]

At least it's quite fun

tbh

[lilac stag]

It’ll get better, or swap to assa

[delicate rover]

cold blood secret technique is pure dopamine

[warm marlin]

the real reason to play shadow focus is for feint

off gcd extra energy usage

surely more than 1 backstab

[lilac stag]

Yeah if you enjoyed legion this is likely the best play style since then with trickster.

[grave delta]

the symbols should be after the backstab for rotten right?

[lucid jackal]

there shouldnt be a backstab there at all

[lucid jackal]

tf

[grave delta]

it's in the pins...

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lilac stag]

That’s with s2 4P

[alpine wraith]

the 0.5 was also initial finding could be a bit more

[lilac stag]

S1 is less. Fuu double checking finding tomorrow to make sure it’s not krangled.

[lilac stag]

Or less.

[grave delta]

but ye surely u dont waste a rotten stack on that backstab ye

[alpine wraith]

correct you use SoD after stab

if you talent rotten at all

[lilac stag]

Dance Stab SoD

[grave delta]

[lilac stag]

You can use:

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[tepid trellis]

dont ask

im upset about it too

[grave delta]

its ur timeline btw @hazy breach

[hazy breach]

Huh

[grave delta]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mT4aNA6bBZYHdjQV?fight=41&type=casts&source=98&view=timeline this is u right

[hazy breach]

ye

[lilac stag]

Upset that danse macabre has a .5% dps increase over 5 mins. What a shit capstone.

@hazy breach how could you make a mistake?!?

[hazy breach]

What

[warm marlin]

he's not playing rotten

ergo no mistake

[shrewd lantern]

Time to play finality

[lilac stag]

Not playing rotten the real mistake?

Like any of our talents matter.

[shrewd lantern]

honestly i do feel bad for anyone new to the class

with how sub feels like piano sometimes w/ opener

[alpine wraith]

finality bigger number

[shrewd lantern]

due to how many ocd abilities

[alpine wraith]

bigger evis pog

[shrewd lantern]

This guy knows how to math

[mighty citrus]

does the mplusbuild sim worse for you as well vs the st build in dungeons? is there any reason why its recommended not just go st build?

[next turret]

is there any guide on youtube that you guys would recommend?

[upbeat escarp]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

TFD doesnt work in sims

WM does fuckall in aoe, go tfd

[alpine wraith]

cant really make it proc more than once

in sims easily

without doing some mad fuckery

[mighty citrus]

okidoki thanks for explaining

[delicate rover]

for delves do you guys run healer brann?

[bleak night]

ye

dps brann had his balls cut off and tank brann has 0 sustain

[delicate rover]

im a little worried that he'll just die because of perma tricks at him lol

[bleak night]

honestly i dont even tricks him, i dont think its necessary

but ive seen other people say to not use perma tricks and just tricks him every other pack or so

[acoustic lodge]

what's TFD?

[hazy breach]

the first dance

[acoustic lodge]

ooh, Eleem, how are you doing?!

[hazy breach]

Im alright ty

Hbu

[acoustic lodge]

I'm stressed lol Nursing school is really kicking my ass today

[hazy breach]

Oof

[acoustic lodge]

I knocked out 12 assignments today and i started at 6am

[hazy breach]

I just went full degen gaming all day

[acoustic lodge]

sheeesh.. did you get any good gear at least?

[hazy breach]

yep

Im like 650

[acoustic lodge]

good gravy.. full tierset?

[hazy breach]

ye

[acoustic lodge]

card, too?

[hazy breach]

Na

It dropped but i passed because the others need it more

[acoustic lodge]

maybe vault!

ooh that's nice! Did you clear all of heroic?

[hazy breach]

nop

Only bandit

Upto bandit*

[acoustic lodge]

Difficult? or meh

[hazy breach]

Bandit is a bit rough, mugzee seems really hard and havent seen anything of gallywix

[acoustic lodge]

I hope it's an interesing fight! I just saw sin and sub in the top 10 for the 1st mythic boss!

actually, sub is all over heroic logs too lmaoo

[cinder axle]

In a big Pull do we use our supercarg on BP or Evisc?

Dance - Symble - Tech - BP or Evic

[west tide]

guys is it normal to have 1 hr tricks but i tricks my target and it just counts down like a regular tricks

i dont see a 1hr buff

or the forever tricks

[lucid jackal]

tricks is 2 part

Its a "Your next hit in 30 seconds causes all threaet to redirect" and then its "all threat redirects"

its on the latter

[west tide]

ohh okay tyyy

[vocal crypt]

old 4 piece or 2 - 2 ?

[hoary lotus]

What happens if I tricks a tank brick a key and don't tricks again

Whi gets aggro

In next key

[paper iron]

guy learning that we do backstab in dance again

about to make a tweet

[delicate rover]

https://tenor.com/view/dalek-explain-doctor-who-gif-5490200

[hexed dagger]

hc house of cards is barely even an upgrade over 639 transmitter

[twilit phoenix]

Ya but the qol

[vocal crypt]

i shouldnt played in Season 1 so i only have a nhc 4 piece. Worth to drop the 4 piece for a 2 - 2 piece with HC items ? I could craft 2 of them

[jaunty heath]

1st you cannot craft 2 items

2nd you cannot catalyze 2 items

[hazy breach]

He means catalyze

[vocal crypt]

i mean catalyte

[jaunty heath]

Oh

Well

I guess depends, are you raiding more this week (probably) then I’d hold off

Might want to catalyze something from vault

[vocal crypt]

no only m+

[jaunty heath]

Not even gonna pug normal for the chance on the easy bosses?

[rain swallow]

!macro

[jaunty heath]

Second boss already drops tier

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vocal crypt]

No i hate raiding 😄 I only play m+ nothing else ^^

[jaunty heath]

I mean if ur not even gonna try I guess it’s fine

Just gotta keep in mind 2 catalyst charges this early is pretty valuable

[eager locust]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[delicate rover]

its silly but I dont like using Flagellation because of what it implies

lol

https://tenor.com/view/monty-python-and-the-holy-grail-head-smack-cult-gif-12275680

[twilit phoenix]

Fellation

[delicate rover]

some would consider that, uh, a good time.

[bleak night]

i hate pugging

thank you for coming to my ted talk

[lusty narwhal]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[modest delta]

okay so on rixxa in motherload

ig if u cloak u get perma pushed rest of the fight

lol

im assuming it was cloak that made the bug happen, i cloaked on the propellant

rest of the key even wtf

even if you die it persists

[rustic geyser]

it's just the devs giving another rogue diff

dw about it

put a speed enchant on your bracers, and ball

[jaunty heath]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[modest delta]

dungeon is literally over btw

im still getting pushed by the 3rd boss somehow

[verbal gust]

hey guys, do we craft a dagger this week?

[rustic geyser]

This is just your life now, it is what it is

[verbal gust]

since the dagger comes from gallywix

[signal heath]

so how we looking boys, sub pumping in keys for yall?

[rustic geyser]

I'm still rocking sin in keys atm

[modest delta]

idk, hope that helps

[celest night]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[modest delta]

i did

[modest delta]

i pay to play the game

[rustic geyser]

to be perfectly fair, a lot of people pay to get pushed back on

[modest delta]

LOL

release ready fs

[signal heath]

music in undermine is fire

[sudden breach]

Haven't PVE'ed in years, what is the best way to get geared up enough to do m+? Currently in full s2 honor gear (606 ilvl)

[short radish]

wait no fucking shot we have to backstab in dance again

[bleak night]

[swift tinsel]

its not as much of a gain until you get new 4pc

[short radish]

okay but once we get 4pc we do

dance -> backstab -> sectech -> shadowstrike -> evis

?

for all dances?

[swift tinsel]

dance - backstab - symbols - sectech

so you still supercharge sectech

[short radish]

right so you dont consume rotten buff on backstab?

[swift tinsel]

yeah, you'd do that if you play rotten

but I think 1/2 finality might be on the table which is where the rotten talent point goes

stuff is still getting optimized though so stay tuned

[short radish]

ye

also do you know the dps gain/loss if we dont blades before sectech?

muscle memory is kinda fucking with me there still

[swift tinsel]

you don't have to blades before sectech, just before the first clones hit 1 second after you cast sectech

so you have a bit of wiggle room still

[short radish]

kk

i think thats happening

[swift tinsel]

sectech physical hit is not nearly as strong as the clones

[short radish]

so thats fine yeh?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[short radish]

ez thanks mate

[swift tinsel]

I think the like..literal most optimal timing is having blades cast right before the clones hit and you're striking so you don't lose any blades cp gen time

[short radish]

make sense

but unfortunatly for me i dont think i can rebind to do all that

im still trying to get out of the muscle memory for the new sectech + coldblood hold

replaced my original bind for snd to sectech + coldblood and now i keep pressing it after fights by accident

🙃

[swift tinsel]

what you can do is keep the macro but have your old sectech bind be just a naked sectech

[reef trellis]

hit dummies until your muscles learn better

[swift tinsel]

lmao yeah that's not ideal

[valid sundial]

What was it that makes dual wield daggers?

[short radish]

yeah thats what ive done

i just picked a bad new bind to replace it with

but it was kinda prime real estate

Q was being severly under utilized

[swift tinsel]

yeah that's my symbols button

[short radish]

tbh i should make it my rupture bind

f3 feels kinda wack

[sudden breach]

does nimble fury apply find weakness aoe?

[swift tinsel]

no, nimble is a separate damage instance so we use The Rotten+Shuriken Storm

specifically 2nd stack of the buff bc of a bug that makes it consume both stacks if cast first

[fallow drift]

sub the better m+ spec?

[delicate rover]

Im not seeing the point of backstab over shadowstrike.. the three energy? really?

[swift tinsel]

Playing around danse macabre is a thing again

[delicate rover]

with the 4set in dance I mean

[swift tinsel]

with premeditation

or will be with s2 4pc

[smoky vault]

2pc 626 + 2pc 619 S1 simming less than 4pc 619 S1 ... meh before 4pc S2 then

[slender abyss]

yo what are we crafting first?

[swift tinsel]

dagger

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[mighty delta]

did we have any major talent changes with the last update?

[swift tinsel]

Nope

[mighty delta]

ok awesome

[swift tinsel]

you're probably just running improved shuriken storm over shadow focus in pretty much all scenarios

[jaunty heath]

worth cata hero chest and helm with 2 charges sims only say 2.2k dps

[swift tinsel]

I'd recommend waiting

to catalyze anything just yet

unless it gets you 4pc

[vocal lantern]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[slender abyss]

whats the reason we crafting dagger first?

[bleak night]

big dammies

[delicate rover]

more often than not the mainhand weapon will be your biggest damage upgrade *Generally speaking

[bleak night]

its 103k dps for me lmao

[delicate rover]

sidenote never having to cast slice and dice again is awesome

[jaunty heath]

just wanna be doing big dam for herioc on sunday haha

[delicate rover]

https://tenor.com/view/bongosub-sub-rogue-world-of-warcraft-rogue-aoe-gif-27554873

[azure mauve]

are the transmitter nerfs in raidbots ?

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[steel sierra]

Is it still a DPS gain if you ONLY use CB + SecT every 1.5 minutes? Having a tough time using it exactly every 45 sec while lining up with 2nd dance in SB

opposed to how we used to*

[swift tinsel]

Yes

if its the 2nd sectech in blades

[steel sierra]

Easy enough

[paper iron]

i would only cb during big CDs, or if i know i ll delay these CDs so i m sure i ll get cb back

[loud yew]

does anyone know if seaforium is good for sub at all?

[paper iron]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/bis-gear

[normal compass]

anyone know why tricks of the trade is only showing a 30 second duration even though im talented into the 1hr talent?

bug?

[slate lantern]

talent takes over after the initial 30s duration of the spell

[vernal junco]

When the big cd is coming up and the enemy still has a lot of health left (but not enough for the big cd), should I first go through a regular cycle of SD, SOD, and SECTEC?

the cooldowns feel messy

If don’t, it feels like relying entirely on teammates and wasting a lot of cooldowns.

[frigid dragon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[next fjord]

Is shadowstep bugged with the Gallywix fight?

I've died twice from using it on him and then getting yeeted off the cliff

[atomic girder]

house of cards max heroic not even an upgrade sadge

[pure jay]

how are y'all enjoying sub in m+?

[indigo steppe]

I like sub but I hate transmitter

[next turret]

im trying to learn sub again but damn theres so much to learn, no idea where to start

way too much information at once lul

[tribal blade]

yes very common problem right now

[vernal junco]

but it’s definitely a big upgrade—not in terms of damage, but in quality of life

[cedar eagle]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pure jay]

I haven't had an issue with transmitter so I'm assuming I'm using it wrong, whats so bad about it?

[regal ermine]

whats our off piece, gloves?

[fossil frost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[still vector]

anyone good at all with Weak Auras? im looking for a WA that will show an icon once i have major CDs up with my trinket.

[steel zinc]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[uncut juniper]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[pliant hazel]

!BIS

!bis

[sonic ingot]

I feel like I’m doing something wrong. Some packs I’m like, healer level dps

[slate lantern]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[steel zinc]

That is sub

[twilit phoenix]

2 heroic daggers dropped from third boss

and I got both

[steel zinc]

Like outside your cds you don't do dam

[twilit phoenix]

[warm marlin]

heroic house of cards went to the enh

[steel zinc]

If you have transmitter it should go to others

Enhancer warrior dk etc

Hoc is like under 5k upgrade for me from mythic transmitter

[paper surge]

how many ads in a fight to justify takign imp surikan storm?

[steel zinc]

You can nearly always run it shadowfocus is like 1-2 extra backstabs per 5m fight

[steel zinc]

It's completely irrelevant talent

[steel zinc]

Idk why you would run this trinket combo

[warm marlin]

it actually doesnt sim so bad

was better than heroic ritual knife

didnt play sub last tier so no transmitter of any kind

[twilit phoenix]

you are unironically cooked

[steel zinc]

Pretty much

[twilit phoenix]

go do a nerubar mog run

and try to yoink one

[still vector]

no this is something i didnt find with any of them

[steel zinc]

What exactly are you looking for what icon

As sub u just stack everything ontop in your cds

All those wa show you when cds are coming up. This includes the trinket

[willow pawn]

we are always sending secret tech with symbols right?

[still vector]

yeah but my eyesight sucks and i want a bigger icon that flashes at me when my major CDs align with my trinket @steel zinc

[willow pawn]

we dont need to send secret tech with shadowdance

[still vector]

i can share my screen with you if you'd like to and have the time i built it but something isnt right

[quick comet]

shadow dance gives 30% dmg bonus***

[still vector]

@steel zinc so for instance id want the icon to flash once my flag/SB and Trinket are all off CD at the same time so i can send my burst off

[steel zinc]

Yes

[steel zinc]

If your new to the spec always dance with sectech and ~30 seconds before flag

[turbid depot]

Yo I always need to have 2 shadow dances during flagellation window?

[steel zinc]

Sorry to hear. Just add then a glow maybe to the icon when ready and make the icons bigger

[steel zinc]

Yes

In m+ that's sometimes cooked

You need 1 going into your cds when you have first dance up

[turbid depot]

Thx 2 day as sub and I’m not syncing my SDs with flag I’ll try tomorrow in raid to hold more my cds

My dances actually

[willow pawn]

I am always confused on what to do when the cd on blade is about 30 seconds elft

left*

i feel like I need to afk but at the same time i feel like sending a sectech with a symbols

just to do damage

[modest delta]

!cds

[wicked jolt]

Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.

[steel zinc]

It's about flag. You just chill

[willow pawn]

kk

[steel zinc]

Sub is a pure cd class

Unlike others that smash always buttons you chill outside your cds

[still vector]

youre good. im new to the WA thing lol

[willow pawn]

do we ever send coup outside dance/symbols?

[still vector]

ill eventuaklly figure it out

[willow pawn]

or do we still rupture spam

bp spam etc

[steel zinc]

Coup on cd

[willow pawn]

kk

[steel zinc]

Cdr and everything is to good

[willow pawn]

on the opener, we have 10 seconds on symbols and 8 on dance. do we send dance right away and evis spam till we run out on prev symbols or just overlap symbols

[half comet]

heroic kezan but nobodys killed heroic gallywix yet

am i missing something

r we sure thats not on champion : |

[steel zinc]

Ik the opener you keep dancing b2b and make sure to supercharge the sectechs

[hexed dagger]

heroic wep not kezan

[steel zinc]

So in the opener your 2nd dance sectech is your 2nd or 3rd finisher

[worthy pulsar]

is there WA for checking how many monsters around me ?

[steel zinc]

Yes

[rustic raven]

yeah but someone has killed mythic

xddddddd

[steel zinc]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[steel zinc]

Fuu has a target counter

Sec

[worthy pulsar]

cool thanks

[full wyvern]

we’re doing tank damage every other pull in M+ right? Just making sure I’m not messing up

[steel zinc]

https://wago.io/NyFFoF1mQ

[foggy egret]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[steel zinc]

Kinda you should try over the course of a dungeon have as many dances with sectech and symbols as possible and even better empower those with blades and flag. People tend to hold to long stuff

[bleak night]

if its every other pull theres probably an issue

im still learning how to use cds properly in keys too though

ive only raided with sub so far so keys are interesting to say the least

[steel zinc]

Sub doesn't do damage outside dance so if your not dancing or using cds you are in an aoe pull under the tank

[random comet]

it's probably every 3rd or 4th pull

depending how your tank pulls

[bleak night]

this is correct yes

[random comet]

if it's press w type stuff in pug, maybe every 3rd

[steel zinc]

You just need to actually wrap around your head that doing below tank dps in a pull and your cds are coming up and then you pop off.

Rn there is no bigger none Lust aoe in the game then sub

[random comet]

and also that tank damage, especially protwar, is insane right now

[full wyvern]

I’m sure I’ll get better once I get the pacing of the dungeons too, I kind of just send everything on CD and sometimes there are pulls where I’m just there

[random comet]

thats the best way to learn

once you learn pack sizes and common pulls you adjust

[worthy pulsar]

do u wait for SD if it almost off cooldown?

for sending in dry sectec

symbols+sectec

[quick comet]

yes wait for SD if its almost there

bank ur SD and SoD when Shadow Blades and Flaggelation are within 30 sec of CD

then blow em all up together

[worthy pulsar]

whats ur "almost there" ? 5s?

[quick comet]

sure

Secret Technique comes up quicker the more you eviscerate, so its never a full 54 sec to wait for it to come back up. So yeah, sure, 5 sec is probably fair to wait for it. probably not much more

maybe 10 idk

[broken swallow]

when do we hit DR with mastery

[quick comet]

Whats DR again?

[short radish]

man pressing that juiced up 2nd sectech with coldblood on pull is so fucking satisfying

just watching you jump ahead of everybody

[quick comet]

everyone in my guild is like "ur hacking" on opener lol. but then i slowly fall off... but that start is nutso...

[molten citrus]

Rarely ever matters, sims take DRs into account

[tidal coral]

If I upgrade a hero wep now with runed crests, worst case I just craft a myth wep and move the hero wep to offhand right?

In other words it’s prob fine to send runed crests on a hero wep?

[cedar eagle]

im not sure thats true

[short radish]

dont craft 2 weapons

it will be a waste of a spark

[tidal coral]

Ya I won’t

[short radish]

the free heroic crest is kinda whatever

[topaz cipher]

You just re craft the hero weapon with a myth creat

[short radish]

because we are gated by sparks

not crests

[tidal coral]

I’m talking about upgrading the hero wep I just got

[short radish]

yeah

dont craft a 2nd dagger

[tidal coral]

You mean don’t craft 2 crafted daggers? Or don’t craft any daggers now that I have a hero wep

[short radish]

dont craft 2 crafted daggers

your crafted dagger will eventually go into your OH spot

[tidal coral]

Oh ya I wouldn’t

[short radish]

once you get a mythic dagger drop

[quick comet]

so craft 1

[tidal coral]

I just got a hero dungeon wep now so I sent some runed crests on it

Which I felt was fine

Bc I’ll craft a myth dagger soon and the hero wep will just move to offhand

[short radish]

oh wait nvm im stupid, i thought you meant hero weap with a crest

uhhhhhhhh

okay so

there may or may not be a bug in the game

that if you craft a mythic dagger

equip it

and then recraft it again with different stats/emblish

that it counts as a 2nd drop

[tidal coral]

Oh like the ring trick

[cosmic vale]

yo when should i break my 4set from last season

[short radish]

im not sure if its patched

and im also not suggesting you abuse a bug

but it might still exist

and that should be your consideration for upgrading heroic weapon

[cedar eagle]

[cosmic vale]

it doesnt tell me how much i gain/lose from breaking

[swift tinsel]

Pretty sure you replace s1 4pc with s2 4pc

bc s2 set is not strong that without the shadow amp of the 4pc

[cosmic vale]

yeah i agree with that, thanks my guy

[smoky niche]

rik reverb feels so good as sub :)

[spiral pewter]

avarage sub rogue key(5-6) damage around 2.2 / 2.5m is ok guyz?

[random comet]

thats definitely above average

depending on your definition

[twilit phoenix]

bro that stinky doodoo trash boss is so fun

[honest saddle]

what is going on here?

I have two cloaks selected

nvm

its the 2 set 2 set thing breaking it

[honest saddle]

seems reasonable depending on tank / key

its all about pull size so very hard to tell

[fallen fable]

is some1 have the wa of DJ season 2 ? with audio like ' frontal ect '

[wicked urchin]

how long we thinking of holding runed crests?

[tacit aspen]

inb4 sim yourself, but is 2x2 better than old 4 atm on average?

[zinc bluff]

Is there anything that extends the duration of shadow dance? Sometimes I have a longer shadow dance in my opener i dont know if that is because i am slower

[valid ocean]

👋

send them bro

[valid ocean]

fullblown sim yourself depends on ilvl and pieces and is very very close.

[wicked urchin]

sup enath

[zinc bluff]

Thanks

[mortal crag]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[mortal crag]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[delicate rover]

I dont get the use of that one tbh

[near obsidian]

its for macabre stacks but idk if its optimal to do or not xd

[delicate rover]

i feel like i would screw up more doing it that way lul

[tepid trellis]

it unfortunately is

as sad as that is

[delicate rover]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-ragnarok-isitthough-doubt-it-gif-18239143

[near obsidian]

it dosent seem that bad ngl

[jaunty heath]

You mentioned holding coupe for flag in exiles chat, that does not apply anymore or am I stupid?

[rocky thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

2nd

we used to hold for dances, now its only for the big go

[jaunty heath]

Damn you hold coupe for the second go

Man

Ur right

Why can’t this spec be normal

[short radish]

the ellesmere one should update to the latest version of s2 stuff

[jaunty heath]

Any rule to how long you would hold?

[delicate rover]

im drawin a blank boots arent tier items right

[little scaffold]

no

[delicate rover]

No they arent or no they are

[maiden gale]

no they're not

[tepid trellis]

boots are not tier pieces

[delicate rover]

Just double checking I was drawing a blank thanks 😄

[maiden gale]

they are not tier set, but if you mean tier as in you can use catalyst on them

idk then

[tribal blade]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lethal lark]

Outlaw is simming on top?

[delicate rover]

who cares, play what you want 😐

[lethal lark]

I figured sub would be.

Oh I do. I was surprised.

I'd heard it was lowest.

[delicate rover]

nah outlaw does surprisingly well if you can play it but so does sub

[tepid trellis]

outlaw pretty much always sims the most

out of the 3 specs

[lethal lark]

Yeah I posted Outlaw all DF. I love how fast it is, but downtime is just so punishing.

[royal spire]

how it is possible that with item level upgrade 2P UM +2P NP is not more than 4P NP

are simms ok for bonuses?

[tepid trellis]

i have 1x normal piece and 1x hc piece and it was an upgrade for me

very tiny

but still an upgrade

[shy scarab]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[delicate rover]

so with delves if its not bountiful its still worth doing if it goes up a level right?

I wanna bump myself up to 12s asap so I can grind out a weapon but I dont wanna waste my time either lol

[sudden breach]

how come we're no longer syncing dance + symbols to shadowstrike?

[tepid trellis]

he shouldve pressed it for the strike

[shy scarab]

Pressed it to slow

[tepid trellis]

but doesent matter all that much

as long as covers as much as possible and you supercharge the sectechs then its fine

[feral knot]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[worn fjord]

I'm new to sub, in m+ should I be rupturing all targets or how many? Pack pulls ofc

[obtuse shard]

when tank started pulling, you can rupture till everythign gathered, then when you are not in dance, you can rupture if the adds could survive for most of the duration

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wicked urchin]

still gonna wait until tuesday but mechano-core amplifier seems like a worthy investment of runed crests

[delicate rover]

Bleh my weapons blow I need to upgrade this asap

[uncut juniper]

what is ur first craft, guys?

dagger?

[delicate rover]

yup

[uncut juniper]

ty

[delicate rover]

sim it to be safe but generally MH weapon is your biggest upgrade

[uncut juniper]

I was going to play outlaw again this season but the gears I got are all ver/mastery lmao

my fate has been sealed

[sonic hamlet]

So every single dance should start with the backstab macro?

[magic root]

According to the data sub is better than assa at the moment for m+?

[tepid trellis]

you just backstab with the premeditation buff up

dances dont always start at low cps and sometimes you start at max

[sonic hamlet]

Ah

Whenever I start a new spec I just use hekili for a while to build the memory of abilities but now I’m in the stage where I’m trying to get a grasp on all the little things

Hekili be weird for sub as well I think when it’s in that -30 sec stage of waiting for flag to come up it wants you to spam rupture so getting off it asap

[gritty gorge]

When do we get catalyst charges? Every two weeks?

[willow pawn]

[wind rover]

anyone know if 2 + 2 tier is a gain

idk how to sim it

dont flame me

nvm

[graceful rock]

!log

[tepid trellis]

very likely it is not a gain

whatsoever

thats what happens when they nerf it by 70%

in the span of 14 days

[jaunty heath]

😦

[tacit coral]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[naive cedar]

Are all rogue specs looking kinda bad after tunings? Seems like it when looking at simulationcraft - or am I looking at it the wrong way

[tepid trellis]

sims does not reflect

ingame performance

[ornate heron]

what weapon enchants do we want to use for m+?