subtlety

[alpine wraith]

dagger drops off rikki that may be hard for some guilds

[vale pine]

and craft next week

[alpine wraith]

and not many are going to do +10s first week

so if that is your case just craft dagger

also i recommend just using carved crests whenever you can

when you get the hero track loot you wont be able to use them anyway

[lilac stag]

@vale pine while not sub or rogue specific figured I'd share. Car Mount Macro, or summon favorite mount outside of undermine. #showtooltip /dismount /cast [nomounted, noflyable] G-99 Breakneck /run if not IsMounted() then C_MountJournal.SummonByID(0) end

[vale pine]

oh thats a neat macro

[alpine wraith]

i just put my crackhead car in L

[vale pine]

does not work in combat tho

[alpine wraith]

you dismount in combat kek

[vale pine]

ye

/dissmount probably works, the /run just won't be executed

[lilac stag]

ive not tested the car in combat

is that a thing? lol

[void hound]

is the whistle any good?

[vale pine]

blizz dissabled /run in combat iirc a while ago

[lilac stag]

idk works for world questing

[vale pine]

yes its quite decent

[lilac stag]

And my warrior can’t see world boss. lol

[midnight geyser]

Nice pfp

[tiny sierra]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[foggy egret]

thanks bud

[midnight geyser]

I’m planning on going back for uni haha

[foggy egret]

yeah goodluck with that lol

[midnight geyser]

Yolo

[foggy egret]

you outside the country now?

[midnight geyser]

Yeah, born outside

I’ve visited frequently

[foggy egret]

I tried it 4 years ago for work, lasted like 2 years living there

it was a great experience tbh

[midnight geyser]

Yeah

Should give me a shake up

And let me be closer to family

[foggy egret]

oh that is for sure

[midnight geyser]

And not have to live thru snow 💀

#1 motivator

[foggy egret]

that is a pretty big one

you will have to live through no electricity though, but 100% worth

[midnight geyser]

Yeah, it doesn’t bother me much when I’m there for 2-3 months at a time

[foggy egret]

yeah for sure

well best of luck man!

[midnight geyser]

Tyvm!

You too if you ever go back haha

[mint lodge]

what posions we run?

[steep hemlock]

anyone have a weakaura for the junkmaestro's mega magnet

[wicked urchin]

i can't wait to get rid of this transmitter holy

am i the only one who hates jump 3 times more than the other tasks?

i might be

[midnight geyser]

Instant

[void hound]

i hate picking up the orb cause its the hardest to see

[midnight geyser]

Then either numbing/atro depending on what’s beeded

[lilac stag]

Nah. Every havoc running it hates it as well. Jump only sucks if you macro it to flag and feel rushed. Otherwise it gives you the most pickup control

[wicked urchin]

i have tendonitis so i have a lot of tension in my thumbs

pressing spacebar and doing rotation hard

[midnight geyser]

Could look at moving hump to a diff key

Jump*

[wicked urchin]

foot pedal time

[lilac stag]

Footpedal option as well

[midnight geyser]

Literally not a bad idea

I’d fuck with that

Basically playing the drums

[wicked urchin]

my hands hate me after 7000 hours of apex legends lmao

[midnight geyser]

Mine hate me after outlaw and god knows how many of Fortnite

[wicked urchin]

im just gonna pray it doesn't take me too long to get house of cards

[midnight geyser]

It didn’t drop yesterday

How bis is it

[wicked urchin]

bis bis

[midnight geyser]

Like how much % we talking over second place bis

Are we talking like manic grief torch bis

[wicked urchin]

leagues over everything but transmitter haha

[worthy pulsar]

best first craft is everforged stabber?

[midnight geyser]

That’s last season no

[wicked urchin]

transmitter is still that good

[midnight geyser]

They’ll prolly nerf in a few weeks

[turbid meteor]

hello guys ^^ anyone can help me with sub classic lvling talent build ? i cant find in wowhead...

[wicked urchin]

it got nerfed another 10% today and it didn't change much

[midnight geyser]

They don’t like last tier trinkets

[midnight geyser]

Holy shit

That thing must be broken

[hazy breach]

The new ones suck mostly

But yes transmitter is good

[wicked urchin]

thank god normal house of cards sims higher for me

the one blessing of not getting a mythic transmitter

[alpine wraith]

yea mythic transmitter is even better than fully upgaded hc for me

unluck

[worthy pulsar]

hey eleem, would you recommend the staber as first craft?

[wicked urchin]

it makes sub at least 25% less fun for me

[wicked urchin]

675?

[worthy pulsar]

658

[wicked urchin]

no

[alpine wraith]

yea sure with the free crest use it

[oblique grove]

I wasnt expecting floodgate to be one of the better dungeons in the rotation but here I am

[worthy pulsar]

yeah free crest

[alpine wraith]

then you recraft it later

[alpine wraith]

darkflame cleft is so ASSSSSSSSSSS

[worthy pulsar]

aite. assume weapon is always biggest damage right

[alpine wraith]

yea

also helps you not use runed crests

[oblique grove]

if I get targetted by a pickaxe one more time Im freaking

[wicked urchin]

imo you should just use the free crest on something else and just craft a mythic dagger with crests

otherwise its actually wasted runed crests no?

[alpine wraith]

the tank moves 1 milimeter away from candle boss

i get meleed for 6 m

[oblique grove]

the circles on the second boss are also the size of europe

and they overlap

[alpine wraith]

you need 2 lvled daggers to upgrade daggers

so no

[cobalt vapor]

Is there a quest to kill gallywix this week?

[alpine wraith]

and you dont get another spark until 2 weeks more

[wicked urchin]

recraft trick

[alpine wraith]

yes after finishing campaignb

[alpine wraith]

reported to blizz gg

[golden totem]

is mythic transmitter still better than heroic/normal house of cards or did the trinket got another nerf ?

[alpine wraith]

actually the nerfs we got made transmitter better

[golden totem]

[alpine wraith]

so it is back to nly being taken off if M house of cards

if you had mythic transmitter

fuu posted a sim

basically only 0.6% worse than fully upgraded HoC

[wicked urchin]

transmitter makes sub at least 25% less fun for me

also quick q

[vestal escarp]

Got champion pacemaker

Hero is never gonna drop now

[wicked urchin]

what's the time left on dance charges to know when to send sectech without dance?

im relearning sub and i'm using a dance somewhere i shouldn't

[vestal escarp]

With the dry symbols

[alpine wraith]

dances are quite rigid

you can send the dry symbols at like 30 secs or 60-70 secs

choose one

the one you dont choose has a dance

[wicked urchin]

do you only cast a dry symbols once generally?

[vale pine]

you rarely do

[wicked urchin]

maybe it's more of an uptime problem for me

[alpine wraith]

we have a lack of cdr on dance so every so often you do but like

you will see it

[eager parrot]

Dude I'm watching casual right now

sub rogue pumping asf wtf

[vestal escarp]

Sin too tbh

Kush playing sin

Sub season btw

[hollow spear]

I wonder how it looks in two weeks (it won't look the same)

[wicked urchin]

i might still play sin for m+

im struggling

[jolly pasture]

sub in low keys kinda unplayable ngl

[tiny sierra]

its because only his main has sub gear

[jolly pasture]

i like never get to my 2nd dance

[tiny sierra]

all his other rogues are sin slaves

[alpine wraith]

sub was fine in the 5 i did

[eager parrot]

for m+ sub is dominating propably

[alpine wraith]

but now im working sadge

[wicked urchin]

that paired with me sucking probably does it

[jaunty heath]

Sub is very fine

[wicked urchin]

ive never played m+ sub

except for a bit in like

[hollow spear]

it's been a while since I've last done them: do you need to unlock delve tiers first or can you sign up to a higher group even if you haven't unlocked them for yourself?

[wicked urchin]

df

early

err

shadowlands

[alpine wraith]

need to do from 4 to u`p

[wicked urchin]

my dumb ass accidentally used a coffer key on a t4 delve

[hollow spear]

which one seems good to solo?

[dusty pagoda]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty heath]

Sucks to get priory trinket when your whole friend group needs it and ur just like „eh maybe if I play sin but I don’t really need it“

[wheat elk]

anyone knows how to fix this shit?

[alpine wraith]

dummy

[wheat elk]

it is like this in dungeons aswell

the spacing between them is too much

[valid flame]

what bug causes your coup to get stuck at 4 stacks and not proc?

[wheat elk]

nameplates will go further up in my screen i wont even see them no more

[hazy breach]

Not entirely sure but something to do with a lagspike

If you get it just relogg

[valid flame]

oof okay thank you Eleem ❤️

[outer cloak]

can any1 tell why i can't put a BoE 655 in sims

got the link for sims from wowhead but its up to 623

tried ,itemlevel=655 but it didn't work

[alpine wraith]

to change ilvl you need a diff string

kinda like the one fuu has

one with id bonus id

then you can put any ilvl

what item is it=

[vale pine]

the file attached should have the boe's added

can just copy/paste below your /simc in top gear

[eager parrot]

Dude how tf casual doing that much dps with sub jeez

[sick cove]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

sub is very good

I need to practice to get my backstab in dance muscle memory back lol

are we doing it with Rotten or 1/2 finality?

[void hound]

huh

whats up with that

[alpine wraith]

if you use rotten you use SoD after the stab with sec tech

to not waste the stack

[swift tinsel]

ah that makes sense

bit of an adjustment

[vale pine]

by not beeing 'd

[swift tinsel]

so you're dance - stab - sod - strike - secteching?

[alpine wraith]

why would you strike

you already cap cps with premed

[swift tinsel]

oh duh yeah just mental habit

still waking up

morning brain thought you had to gen combo points to get charged ones

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

[swift tinsel]

coffee time lol

is the bs tech in the regular apl or should I add custom for simming stuff

[alpine wraith]

still not ironed out you can copy the one fuu posted for a simplified vers

but likely more things might be added like the SoD thing i just told you if you use rotten

[swift tinsel]

gotcha, I'll mess around a bit when the caffeine kicks in

[eager parrot]

literally 😄 I playd sub at shadowlands for m+ now lets try assas in keys my single was insane with sub but aoe ıdk

[oak grotto]

When do we break s1 tier?

[twilit phoenix]

Not sure if 2/2 is better than going 4/4

But worth running lfr for tier, since it’s pretty strong even at the same ilvl

Stronger I should say

[alpine wraith]

you break tier as soon as possible for sub even lfr upgraded is higher ilvl

[twilit phoenix]

So 2+2 is okay?

[wild hornet]

guess i might not need a dagger craft at all

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/megamind-gif-26070434

[lilac stag]

Until you realize a heroic crafted is a 3% upgrade

[twilit phoenix]

Gilded crafted was like 8% for me

[swift tinsel]

658 was a 4% upgrade over my 639 kukri

[twilit phoenix]

Where do you get the quest for that btw

[alpine wraith]

complete campaign

[twilit phoenix]

Do you need to finish the campaign?

[swift tinsel]

guy by the catalyst machine

[twilit phoenix]

FUCK

[swift tinsel]

oh I just ran a bunch of 2's

and bought a crest thing

thought you meant for the spark

[twilit phoenix]

How long does the part of the campaign that came out this week take?

[alpine wraith]

like 1h tops

[swift tinsel]

not sure, I should do it so I can upgrade my cloak or boots

[twilit phoenix]

Thanks hacha

[lilac stag]

unless it bugs. I can’t complete it. Npc doesn’t show up

[swift tinsel]

niiiiiice

[twilit phoenix]

You forgot this btw 👑

[sonic hamlet]

when going into a pack of say 6 mobs do you multi dot rupture or just do normal rotation then rupture after?

[lilac stag]

Yeah it’s beyond irritating. Warrior can’t see world boss. Rogue can do campaign.

If CD are up you just send

[sonic hamlet]

okay then when you have no dance u spread?

[lilac stag]

if they live 12 seconds yes

[void hound]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[valid vault]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crimson dagger]

Do we expect subtlety’s currently amazing performance in the heroic raid to continue on as more people get tier sets / gear and into mythic?

[alpine wraith]

not really

we will still be decent tho dont

think we will just go off a cliff

[crimson dagger]

Yeah sub is my preferred spec but I feel like historically as more fight mechanics are introduced and the recent buffs I should probably stay Assass

[tulip gorge]

no, blizzard will nerf it

[swift tinsel]

Just gotta play better so no one can tell we've been nerfed

[remote rapids]

For house of cards just hold and send with shadow blades every time?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[keen dome]

Why is Mug'zee pissing himself constantly in the raid fight??? what is this design

[vale pine]

It is incredibly hard to predict, let me quick explain why

[glossy turtle]

any skip runs. or just a place where you can find that kind of information? like pack skips. for m+

[swift tinsel]

that whole fight is such a mess

[vale pine]

Mythinc can change fights significantly

[crimson dagger]

True

[keen dome]

Why is it yellow. WHY is it coming from his crotch

[vale pine]

normal/heroic is typically a bit on the easier side, giving us more freedom to just kill bosses with high boss uptime and often ignore mechanics

Mythic seems tuned a bit tougher this time

[swift tinsel]

immersion

[vale pine]

so the very first thing we don't need to forget is that the statistic, which we ask for

[swift tinsel]

in pee

[vale pine]

will ONLY have the first few fights in it for quite some time

so who is "winning" in the statistic will heavily depend on how strong they are on the first few bosses

for reference, you need 50 public logs to have a fight in the statistic

[crimson dagger]

Yeah and I think assass does a bit better with lower uptime. I’ll probably stay assass since it should be enough to get through the early stuff until there is data in for later bosses

[vale pine]

that aside, subtlety has already a strength advantage

[pseudo fiber]

did we discuss already what to spark into first?

[vale pine]

transmitter mythic is only marginal below house of cards

and the trinket slot is one of the high impact slots

so this means

where other classes might see 1 or 2% increase in output from trinkets

we don't

the tier set is good, its roughly 13% damage increase

the two bonus is not that great, so if we go for statistics, we will see a higher jump once people get 4 set compared to 2 set

[vale pine]

options:

• (secure) Weapon
• wait till after raid and craft depending on drops (e.g. could craft a ring)
• wait till next reset and decide based on your vault drops

[pseudo fiber]

hmmkay

[vale pine]

Weapon is damage wise the best upgrade, but depending on how easy the firts bosses in mythic are

[pseudo fiber]

i was thinkin bout a neck, as no dungeon drops a proper one, neither raid afaik

[vale pine]

you might be able to snack a weapon from mythic

any of the low impact slots is good long term too

so a ring, back, neck, bracer, belt, (offhand) weapon all are close to the best setup

ring comes with a socket, so its an interesting craft

[pseudo fiber]

found this guy here already

[vale pine]

oh, nice back

[next fjord]

I'm using it on my dagger and the next one is going on my bracers

[pseudo fiber]

could u run as overall emb. 2xversa?

or do we stick to full ST with lense?

[remote rapids]

we spend delve keys at 8+ right? and 11s give gilded crests?

[swift tinsel]

yes

11's give gilded up to 21 per week

[remote rapids]

do you have to spend keys on those or they just regular chests?

[swift tinsel]

if you have lives left

you should just get them iirc

[remote rapids]

ah ok, that's cool they added some value to running the higher stuff

[swift tinsel]

lemme check rq

bc I'm curious too lol

[remote rapids]

that's cool

[shrewd shadow]

One t11 I got 14 gilded first run, so not horrible I assume 14 is on the higher side

[solar charm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[golden totem]

first day playing with siren isle ring, would you guys play thunderlord or stormbringer on 7-8keys ? (tyrr)

[alpine wraith]

the one that gives stats

[shrewd shadow]

Don’t the damage ones have a tendency to zone pull?

[swift tinsel]

not that I've seen

[rain swallow]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[versed matrix]

so after looking at raider.io it looks like sub rogue is bis atm for mythic plus?

[swift tinsel]

its day 1

too early to tell

[versed matrix]

I understand but everyone on the first three pages are sub so i wasnt sure if it was just bandwagoning or if sub was actually doing alot more dps than other specs

[vale pine]

yes yes

subtlety is always bis tho

[paper iron]

Most people prepared sub also because of its tuning on ptr

[swift tinsel]

and its the most fun

[paper iron]

Sub is S tier regarding Fuu's tier list

[swift tinsel]

oh true

good point

[vale pine]

but we spend hour running simulations, carefully crafting a tier list for this season

haven't shared it public yet, so lets keep the list between me and you

[frozen lily]

Looks perfect

[swift tinsel]

just don't show the hero tree tier list

might rattle a few people

[lilac stag]

D tier Dave. D tier.

[swift tinsel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1342596269193039943/9l2o5h.gif

dave is dead

[mossy patio]

How’s sub looking in m+?

[frozen lily]

Did Dave perhaps try outlaw trickster in keys? Is that why he’s dead?

[swift tinsel]

dave is never outlaw

dave is dave

and also dead

[cursive vapor]

Purple

[mossy patio]

Caught up on the posts above. Looks like that was for m+

[distant plinth]

Do you refresh rupture with symbols only?

[spare quiver]

!cheet

[swift tinsel]

nah

its ideal to refresh rupture outside cd's

[paper iron]

i like how people still get baited by how you made your tier list fuu 🤭

it s been seasons

[swift tinsel]

so you spend the most time in cooldowns casting our bigger finishers

[lilac stag]

Starting fungal folly 10. almost done unlocking the 11

[distant plinth]

Yeah OK but if i have mike 2-3sec remaining on symbols only

Didn't know if id refresh there or evis

[lilac stag]

symbols you only care about for supercharger

[vale pine]

shadowy

[eager parrot]

any guide video for sub m+?

[vale pine]

a lot of purple in the animations, especially on higher target counts when you have more shadow dance uptime and black powder

[vale pine]

stealthi streams m+ atm, so if you want to have a look at how it plays might be worth checking his stream out (linked in #rogue-streamers)

[full wyvern]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[slate nest]

any talents for m+?

is it on wowhead?

nevermind, found pin

[vale pine]

mythic+ talents are almost identical to raid ones

change weaponmaster to the first dance

and you are set

it is in the pins and all guides are up to date

[slate nest]

what is a good ilvl for m0/m+?

[swift tinsel]

been seeing people as low as 620 in 2's but it depends

[slate nest]

Im 616 since i didnt play that much last season

so i should farm some hc first?

[swift tinsel]

you should be fine in 0's/2's

maybe even up to 3's or 4's

we're quite tanky even without being super geared but some stuff can get spicy

[lilac stag]

4 was kinda ouchie in priory

[swift tinsel]

I've been hearing priory is the roughest of the season so far

bunch of rot damage too

[wheat elk]

close enough

[swift tinsel]

meadery is the only other one where I felt in actual danger

I gotta do floodgate yet tho

[keen dome]

I gotta do some M+.. I'm still in normal hell

[manic ivy]

guys you're going to kill me but may I know what to do after:

SS > Flag > Evis > Vanish > SS > rupture > SD + symbols + pots and trinkets > ST without cb > SHB > SS > Evis for the rest of 1st sd duration > SD number 2 > SS > Evis > SUPER CHARGE with SYMBOLS > ST with CB

if this is the opener (correct me if smthn is wrong) what's our "rotation" after that? just repeat?

[swift tinsel]

I think we're finishing normal and starting heroic tomorrow

[keen dome]

Nice

I'm on Gallywix atm.

[vale pine]

first place is first place

[swift tinsel]

how is it? that's the only boss we have left

[wheat elk]

for some reason there is a huge gap with other dpses on bosses

like 500k 600k gap

[vale pine]

subtlety does good burst

[keen dome]

Setting up for a pull, haha

[vale pine]

so should be ahead if bosses don't survive long

[swift tinsel]

we demolish bosses, its very fun lol

[keen dome]

Normal is legit punishing pugs, it's hilariuos

[swift tinsel]

Oh nice, I forgot you're pugging lol

[keen dome]

Yeah ahha

[swift tinsel]

I can imagine, we struggled in a guild group for some parts haha

esp just navigating trash and people not dying to drive-by cars

[keen dome]

god yeah

lmao the cars

[inner sand]

@kindred olive reckon we are copping more nerfs I’m worried we cop nerfs and transmitter gets nuked at the same time

[keen dome]

Heroic walls are gonna be Rik, Stix and Mug'zee I think

[swift tinsel]

Stix is a fucking mess

[weary tree]

So we backstab every time we dance with premed?

[swift tinsel]

I think that's my least-favorite fight so far besides maybe Mugzee

[keen dome]

stix is just gonna be ovinax 2.0 in pugs, but stupider

[swift tinsel]

we had so many flaming garbage piles

our tanks were kinda slow in moving him and we're melee-heavy so its a bad combo

[vale pine]

wrong fuu ^^

but i don't think we will see more nerfs

subtlety is good but not opressive

and heroic/normal has very little to say damage wise

i went over it earlier, but heroic/normal has low kill times as well as the ability to ignore a LOT of mechanics

[swift tinsel]

and we have some favorable timings with phases and spawns

[vale pine]

Mythic will have longer fights and require us to play more mechanics

[inner sand]

It can def get the warrior treatment from last raid tho I’ve only been farming 8s on rogue did splits today on pala

But yeah not sure

[swift tinsel]

I would be surprised if we got more nerfs

[inner sand]

Damage in keys can def be kinda not normally… this was a floodgate granted one of the rets was afk one of the big pulls but still

[swift tinsel]

lol you ran with aug?

[inner sand]

Aug is my gm

[swift tinsel]

no way

[inner sand]

Not Gm but raidlead yeah

[swift tinsel]

is he still a meme in Hammer of Wrath

[inner sand]

Ive got no idea tbh

[swift tinsel]

he was always super funny in the ret channels there

[keen dome]

Gallywix is pretty fun on normal

[vocal ether]

Honest question here, new to Rogue and I have been playing Assa. Is sub the way to go? is it harder than assa?

[inner sand]

What type of meme did you mean I’m hoping nothing bad

[swift tinsel]

nah nothing bad lol

[vale pine]

yes, and yes

[vocal ether]

hmm guess ill give it a try then!

[vivid cobalt]

hi fam i haven't looked at retail since we were suffering in m+ back in like november how we looking on new patch?

is sub in a fun and competitive place

[inner sand]

I think both I currently really enjoy sub and it’s for sure a strong spec

Some people don’t like trickster much though

[frigid canopy]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vale pine]

yes

[celest mulch]

@vale pine real talk tho am i inting if I stay Sin? 😛

[vale pine]

you don't

but its not the "best" spec in general from current knowlage

[celest mulch]

I dont care about best

[vale pine]

we need to wait for boss timings to see for mythic

[celest mulch]

Yeah

I gotta know whether or not taking the time to learn sub again will be worth or if i can just stay sin

[devout bison]

@vale pine is wowhead up to date? the faq has an old update-date here on dc ^^

[lilac stag]

getting the real content done.

[vale pine]

guides and the pins are up to date

[devout bison]

okay, ty. i am rerolling to rogue this season, was an outlaw main before and tried sin for a few dungeons now... dont really like the playstyle tbh

[lilac stag]

You can run whatever. One will be “meta” for the specs. Genuinely play whatever you enjoy.

All 3 play differently

[frozen lily]

Sub doesn’t really need restealths or mark management which are plusses for sure

[lilac stag]

TFD is big with restealths

[vale pine]

exactly

its not a restealth

[frozen lily]

Yeah but 6 sec is a long time

[vale pine]

its a way worse version of it

[lilac stag]

haha accurate

[vale pine]

[oblique grove]

12 rating off of ksm day 1

[lilac stag]

And 4 seconds of dance is a long time

[frozen lily]

But it’s also not the end of the world if you don’t hey TFD

[swift tinsel]

its just better than wm in m+ if you get it once or twice

[frozen lily]

Yeah I was wondering how many times you have to get it in a key for it to be good

[swift tinsel]

wm is weak and does nothing in aoe

[vale pine]

we still play tfw

[swift tinsel]

so it doesn't take much

[vale pine]

because weaponmaster is not good

[swift tinsel]

with our fight timings from last night I'm 100% playing tfd on our normal reclear

outside of maybe mugzee

[frozen lily]

Was the breakpoint around 4 min?

[swift tinsel]

3-4

[frozen lily]

Ty ty

[fair edge]

is tank brann supposed to never ever heal itself? I'm sitting ak with him and he stays at low hp

[swift tinsel]

he's still learning how to tank

its his first season

[lilac stag]

It’s meant for healers not dps

[frozen lily]

I just play him as healer like last season

[lilac stag]

So it’s working as intended

[frozen lily]

The cold blood thing bothers me a bit

Using a 45s cd only every 90s

[lilac stag]

then don’t do it

and have worse dmg

[frozen lily]

No way

Only if i can first prove that another way is better

Which probably won’t happen

[alpine wraith]

you also use it in between

just dont delay it

[paper iron]

Does the macro dance/backstab work still?

[twilit phoenix]

was wondering the same thing

if someone has a working macro, would be based

[alpine wraith]

what is up with people and macros

on god just use backstab

[paper iron]

Else i just mistypped it then, cant remember with stance thing

[frozen lily]

Don’t we sometimes use dance on full cp though?

[paper iron]

Oh Well i Could just use bs on the same bind than dance i guess

[twilit phoenix]

because BS in dance is super unintuitive

[lilac stag]

It never ends

[twilit phoenix]

and if there is a shortcut, why not use it

[paper iron]

If there is no delay

[twilit phoenix]

people really try to flex that they don't use macros

🤡

[alpine wraith]

more like you already have the 2 buttons why you need 3

[frozen lily]

I for sure use macros if it doesn’t cost damage

[alpine wraith]

you are actually making it harder for yourself

[twilit phoenix]

this is the move right here

[shell delta]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[paper iron]

My bs and ss are on the same bind i dont have à bs macro in dance

[twilit phoenix]

ye exactly

[alpine wraith]

ah bs and ss same button is the nest of evil

[frozen lily]

But I guess it’s frustrating that some things on sub are almost macroable but not quite

[alpine wraith]

the original sin lets say then

that explains a lot

i just dont have a stealth bar kinda

[paper iron]

But ig i can just also use bs/ dance as the same bind since u cant press dance if u already in

[twilit phoenix]

oh shit that's kinda based actually

[alpine wraith]

that would work yea

[paper iron]

I dont on outlaw but on sub because of cheapshot and all i do

I used to not also on sin when we wouldnt press ambush

I also could delete cheapshot, the button iz useless now kappa

[twilit phoenix]

so you'd just put BS on the same button as dance in your stealth bar?

[paper iron]

Yea i guess

[twilit phoenix]

hmm i'll try that

[paper iron]

Imma try later im on a break rn

[outer cloak]

ty

[vale pine]

/cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow Dance

[lethal breach]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[frozen lily]

This works due to stance delay right

[swift crest]

why do we press rubtue

rubture

[twilit phoenix]

almost there

one more try king

[swift crest]

rubter

[twilit phoenix]

keep going king!

[frozen lily]

One more try

[swift crest]

didnt it used to bne called somethin else

[alpine wraith]

yea it was called nightblade for a bit

[swift crest]

a diff but same as rubture

[alpine wraith]

but now it is back to rupture

[swift crest]

why change the name

[vale pine]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[vale pine]

alright

hope i did not make a typo in the macro

[frozen lily]

Looks good

[turbid depot]

hey guys question, how do i make my plater to show find weakness in the target frames?

[cedar eagle]

How long should the blades/flag cd be when we start pooling a 2nd dance charge

[turbid depot]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

also fitting bot command name "fuck this BS with backstab in shadow dance, !bs"

[swift crest]

who told blizzard to rename a bad asss nightblade to rubtuah

[turbid depot]

!symbols

[honest saddle]

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[paper iron]

Rugture

[cedar eagle]

How long should the blades/flag cd be when we start pooling a 2nd dance charge

[honest saddle]

@vale pine @alpine wraith Understanding the bs logic has been really hard to follow via the sub tc channels. Is there somewhere or someway to dumb it down and simplify it?

[honest saddle]

I find 45 seconds to be about the time, anything less is very risky

[vale pine]

tl;dr: use backstab as your first builder in every shadow dance

[frozen lily]

Depends on how many sd charges you have surely?

[alpine wraith]

and dont use SoD before it if you play rotten

[cedar eagle]

Are we doing that again?

[vale pine]

yes

[paper iron]

[vale pine]

kinda

[honest saddle]

@vale pine even outside of blades?

[vale pine]

yes

[alpine wraith]

yea it is a premed condition kinda because of new tier and other things that make finishers good

[vale pine]

because thats the simplest way to do it

[paper iron]

Cuz of New premade its cool

[frozen lily]

Ima gonna make myself a weakaura to remind me of the bs thing i think

[alpine wraith]

and you still get 2 rotten strikes anyway

[frozen lily]

I’ll just forget

[swift crest]

fuu do u have issue with the word xnightbladex

[cedar eagle]

Would we do it like DF then? Dance bs evis strike sectech? Or still sectech 1st finish

[vale pine]

the gain is 0.2 or 0.3% without s2 tier set

with tier set goes up to ~0.5%

[alpine wraith]

sec tech first still

[honest saddle]

in cds you have to sec tech because of the cdr

[vale pine]

nothing else changes

[honest saddle]

outside of cds, you can tech second I think and its fine

[vale pine]

just bs first builder

[cedar eagle]

Kk every dance even out of blades, good to know ty

[honest saddle]

does this mean that we could macro bs into dance, and then macro symbol into tech

[paper iron]

[honest saddle]

Obviously we would have another symbol button

but if you want to symbol AFTER the bs

[paper iron]

Needed for the second dance yea

[honest saddle]

then I see no harm in having it symbol with tech macro for first with blades, so long as the symbol is first in the macro line

[paper iron]

Thing is since sod is ogcd, would it still gîve supercharger to st casted at the same frame?

[honest saddle]

thats a really good question

[alpine wraith]

you want to use it before you use sec tech

[honest saddle]

it so awkward to dance bs symbols tech

I think for simplicity sake you would just dance bs macro, manually press symbols, manually tech?

[swift tinsel]

spent a bit of dummy time and its really not that bad

[honest saddle]

how were you doing it key bind wise haptics

[paper iron]

I truely think they gonna remove symbol at Some point and incorporate it to dance. It s gonna be à disaster but when i see other specs reworks i feel that it Will happen

[swift tinsel]

I have dance on 3 and bs on 1 so I just press them at the same time, then have sod on q so its very easy to press that into sectech which I have on R

[fallen crescent]

Idk what the response was earlier but do we want that BS in SD to consume a rotten stack

[paper iron]

33 415 2 E 2 E

Not that bad actually

[swift tinsel]

so for me its 1+3->Q->R

[paper iron]

Forgot blade which is 5 to me

[swift tinsel]

plus I'm left-handed so weird stuff like that is easy for me

[honest saddle]

wonder if there is harm in dance bs macro

[swift tinsel]

no, you sod after bs

[alpine wraith]

i have backstab in 2

[fallen crescent]

Ty friend

[swift tinsel]

2 has been evisc for me since 2011 and I can't change it now

the gods won't let me

[hollow spear]

What I don't understand is how that improves things

[alpine wraith]

if talent rotten do you want a 200k backstab

[hollow spear]

We backstab instead of shadowstrike

[alpine wraith]

or a 900k strike

that is why you SoD after backstab

[hollow spear]

So dance macabre stacks are the same

[swift tinsel]

nah you get 1 from BS because you dance before BS

[honest saddle]

for the tech, yes, but for every finisher after you are one macabre higher

[hollow spear]

Or is it because we shadowstrike after sectec to get another stack

Because of the shadow delay

[honest saddle]

only 1 bs coloph, then into shadowstrike like normal

just a free 6% on every finisher after tech

and on strike itself

[paper iron]

We use to do that early df i think

[hollow spear]

I get that, it's more about the sectec being the same. You're getting the extra stack afterwards.

[paper iron]

It still amp the clones yea?

[hollow spear]

Dunno

[honest saddle]

yeah, it should

if you get a strike in before the clones hit

[hollow spear]

Maybe the 2nd

Because you strike exactly on gcd

Which technically is minimally above 1.0s

[honest saddle]

right

and the clones hit exactly 1 sec later

[hollow spear]

1.0 and 1.3

[honest saddle]

yeah

[hollow spear]

That's why the 2nd hits but I don't think the first one does

[honest saddle]

so 3% extra dam on clone dam basically

and then 6% on everything else

seems good

especially with 4pc

[paper iron]

As said it s mostly à real improvement with New tier set cuz of thé finisher damage on evis i guess

[left pollen]

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[swift tinsel]

yeah I'm not really worrying about nailing it until I get 4pc

just practicing now so it's an easy transition

[hollow spear]

I'm wondering whether using sectec 2nd could be an improvement

Or if that makes it too tight for blades/trinket

Because nerubar tier set will be gone

So that shouldn't be a concern

[hazy breach]

The main reason you sectech early is to get more unseen blades and coup earlier

[hollow spear]

True

[swift crest]

i have trouble understanding why nightblade x was changed to ruptuah

[hollow spear]

Did you try to force sectec 2nd or is going 1st a no brainer

[swift tinsel]

going first esp in flag means faster coup which is bigger for 2nd sectech

first dance is kinda setup for 2nd to make it hit hardest

[hollow spear]

I really have to check my logs. It feels like coup is proccing giga fast during flag

First dance still seems quite a bit worse for me for some reason

[modest delta]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[honest saddle]

You def cant do with transmitter

way too risky

a lot of these fights force you to miss a gcd in dance window, like rik reverb, so pushing out tech even a global is riskkkkky

[hollow spear]

Yeah maybe delusional

I've stopped trying to cold blood between cooldowns too

I only use it if I know I have to delay flag anyways

[honest saddle]

the real big parse move

[oblique grove]

[honest saddle]

is to ignore all cb rules

cb on cd

and crit every second sec tech on luck

GG

[paper iron]

Real

[hollow spear]

Sounds like someone who's not me

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[honest saddle]

how much worse is 5+ in dance and 6+ out, than just 6+

the reason I ask, is because at the end of flag, you often find yourself in a window where another builder will push you out of flag blades etc

and it just seems like in that instance, you 100% 5 pt finish

[steel zinc]

in m+ that should be the case

in raid pure st its more planned

[honest saddle]

ok, in testing, you cant macro backstab to dance

it wont work

your second dance often gets spammed at the end of your first dance window, and the first global is an evisc

or can be

unless you want 2 dance binds

[pallid hollow]

ok i need help and people will have asked this multiple times already

in m+, i do the usual all in flag blades double dance trinket

but when i dont have blades flag trinket what do i do

just not overcap symbols+dance?

[honest saddle]

dance on big packs and dont overcap

[swift tinsel]

send with secret technique

[pallid hollow]

ok

[honest saddle]

its really all gas no breaks in m+

[pallid hollow]

but

if i am not overcapping too much and i have a coldblood coming up, do i hold dance for technique+blood or no?

[swift tinsel]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[pallid hollow]

fml then ok i heard about that but i straight up ignored it

well then, it's weakaura session time

[swift tinsel]

its honestly kinda fine for when you're not going for min-maxes

[glossy turtle]

is 2-2 set better then old for 4set?

[honest saddle]

not without ilvl

it needs to be 455+ ilvl on the 2 set

[pallid hollow]

but ok send only in blades

[alpine wraith]

native lfr set is better than old one you just upgrade it

[swift tinsel]

does anyone know if we get spark next week or 2nd catalyst charge

[honest saddle]

the way I get around that stoviglie is I have 2 binds for tech. one for second tech in cds, and one for every other scenario. Then I just macro CB to the second tech bind

[pallid hollow]

i was thinking about it yea

also

[honest saddle]

we will get half a spark next week, this week was the second spark. Not sure on catalyst

[pallid hollow]

if <6 targets it's shadowstrike and no storm?

[alpine wraith]

yea next week is 1 half spark

[pallid hollow]

or did i read it wrong

[glass ridge]

If you dance at full cp do you dance > evis > backstab > symbols > sectec or would you forgo the backstab here and just dance > symbols > evis > shadowstrike > sectec, or would you just dance > symbols > sectec?

[swift tinsel]

I wasn't expecting to have a catalyst charge this week

[alpine wraith]

that would not happen on a cds dance

because you would flag finish

then go into dance

[swift tinsel]

no luck on any tier drops in raid so I'm hoping for a hero track tier piece from vault so I can get 2pc

[honest saddle]

on the second dance in cds, when do we bs?

first builder?

[alpine wraith]

second dance in cds you first builder it yea

you dont SoD until later

[honest saddle]

yeah

[alpine wraith]

for sec tech anyway

[honest saddle]

not until tech anyway

[glass ridge]

okay cool, appreciate it

[stoic shuttle]

what are the chances sub gets nerfed next week lmfao

[honest saddle]

next to none

[stoic shuttle]

cause im thinking about going back to maining rogue again and didnt wanan get cucked

[honest saddle]

yeah sub is good

but its also a burst spec on 3 minute kills.

blizzard isnt dumb

on mythic we wont be AS good with longer fights

[stoic shuttle]

how does it compare to all other melee

[honest saddle]

pretty good

[swift crest]

id love that

[sacred yarrow]

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[honest saddle]

dh warrior also good

[broken swallow]

YO FUCK shadowstep on gallywix

[swift crest]

has 10 seconds of total enjoyabkle gameplay out of 5mins

[honest saddle]

as opposed to sin which is never enjoyable?

[swift crest]

dotting from stealth in m+ all that jazz

[swift tinsel]

you don't have to play it

[swift crest]

i still will

well raid is tomorrow, we clear normal, if i hate maybe its back to assa

[honest saddle]

hopefully they fix it

[paper iron]

what happen?

u just fall?

[honest saddle]

nah

you go to the middle though

regardless of where he is

its hard to code, he has a hole you can fall into

so they have to hard code you to a safe spot near the middle, rather than the boss

then, he moves around

which hole bosses normally dont

so when he moves they would have to remove the safe spot code

and actually port you to him

[cobalt vector]

Its the solution to just step a melee dps. like a dh or war that got their relly fast

[honest saddle]

gameplay wise yeah, but they should also fix their code.

[broken swallow]

you will hsadowstep to him in later phases and get teleported back to where he was facing at the start of the fight, often on the opposite side of where you need to drop a bomb and crap

Shadowstepping to narnia does not describe how bad it is

[keen dome]

Man, normal pugs. What a hell.

[paper iron]

i really wonder how ks does then

[honest saddle]

💀

[broken swallow]

LOL

[glass ridge]

one more question, in 7t+ are your first two builders during dance backstab and then ss?

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[compact citrus]

worth crafting dagger today?

[ashen terrace]

If you aren’t killing mythic reverb anytime soon just send the dagger

[pallid hollow]

ok so things i need to do: have another keybind for sectech+coldblood

weakauras

[vocal crypt]

on wowhead it says that you only use powder bomb with 7 or more adds. What should i use as a finisher on 4-5 mobs ?

[pallid hollow]

eviscerate

[vale pine]

thats correct, you don't use bp because of nimble flurry before 7+ targets

[pallid hollow]

i need to ask, the trickster stuff that empowers eviscerate, does it always line up with dance windows?

i need to understand the flow of dances

[vocal crypt]

so you dont really aoe in 5-6 mobs fights

[vale pine]

the backstab optimization becomes fairly neutral with more targets, it is mostly a gain on lower target counts

[hollow cobalt]

You do. You cleave with the trickster héros talent Nimble Flurry

[keen dome]

Really like this raid, at least on normal. Felt harder than Neurbar (in pugs) too

[vocal crypt]

oh ok ty then i played it wrong the whole day 😄

[tight monolith]

anyone successfully done the dagger craft trick this season?

[glass ridge]

is it okay to ss only in 7+ then?

[vale pine]

yes

[glass ridge]

ty!

[obtuse shard]

I just did it for you, didnt work

[pallid hollow]

wait ok so the backstab in dance for macabre is back but loses value in aoe and it's not really a big dps upgrade

[vale pine]

its 0.3% iirc without tier

0.5 with the new 4p

so nothing to stress out too much about

[pallid hollow]

ok it's good training to just learn it tho

[vale pine]

it is a small optimization

!bs

[wicked jolt]

Backstab/Shadow Dance Macro:#Showtooltip Shadow Dance /cast [bonusbar:1] Backstab; Shadow DanceThis will cast Shadow Dance on first key press and Backstab on second key press.

[tight monolith]

hehehe I did it too before asking but still happy with the craft, would have been just a bonus

[vale pine]

and you can use this macro to use backstab with the same button during dance

[pallid hollow]

ok

thanks

and

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's guy's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[pallid hollow]

any useful stuff to track? i have afenar's wa

[sacred yarrow]

i second that question, is it worthwhile tracking supercharge to sync the 2 charges for ST? or will the cds typically align on a pull, if done right, and you'll get it anyway

[pallid hollow]

also am i tripping or m+ talents and st talents are exactly the same?

[obtuse shard]

you just change weaponmaster to the first dance

that's why sub st is so good in m+

[paper iron]

Fuu 0.5% is extremely stressfull

[vale pine]

it is

[paper iron]

We yellow names live on +10 dps rules

[vale pine]

i talked about it every other patch

[pallid hollow]

wait what ok i was running the wrong m+ talents then

[vale pine]

the burdon of knowlage

now that you know backstab in dance is a gain

you feel obligated to do it

[pallid hollow]

yes exactly

[sacred yarrow]

thats why reading this channel so often makes me say to other classes how easy they got it 🥲

[hybrid heath]

Anyone know of a weak aura that counts how many mobs are in a pack? Just so that the moment there are less than 7 or more that 6 mobs we can easily change our AoE rotation? (Really tired. I hope this question made sense)

[pallid hollow]

it makes sense, but

i think it's more about experience, m+ will become standard as routes are perfected

[vale pine]

https://wago.io/NyFFoF1mQ best i can do

[pallid hollow]

fuck me this discord is full of tryhards isnt it

love it

[hollow cobalt]

Ahaha

[swift tinsel]

that's kind of what these are for lol

[spark tusk]

Well

Kind of

[pallid hollow]

no

[spark tusk]

Depends on what you mean by tryhard

[pallid hollow]

have you been in enha discord

[swift tinsel]

getting info beyond just the guides

[pallid hollow]

legit monkeys

in a nice way ofc

[spark tusk]

Ask me how many mythic boss kills I have, but then ask me how many lines of code I have in custom weakauras

or how much gold I have

D:

[swift tinsel]

haahah

[hybrid heath]

Oh he'll yeah. Thanks alot Fuu

[spark tusk]

(0, too many, too much are the answers)

[spark tusk]

But yes this discord is good (and I thought that before becoming CF )

[vale pine]

discord is just easier to spread the information fast, guides take time to update so will get it slightly later

[swift tinsel]

yeah, very true

and getting different perspectives can be helpful when conversations are constructive

[vale pine]

you can go into specifics easier

because its a two way communication

guides, videos, etc are always one way

[pallid hollow]

also this is a very good discord

usually get your answer basically instant

[swift tinsel]

100%, I've learned more from spending time in here than any other discord besides maybe some of the dk ones when its not flooded with fotm

[keen dome]

100%

[hollow cobalt]

This is the Best class discord

Hands down

[swift tinsel]

outside of the Outlaw channel

mini Fel Hammer over there

[pallid hollow]

yes but that is because outlaw is basically a meme channel with people dooming (including myself) and tilting over killing spree

[broken swallow]

whats the best delve to spam to max level today?

[swift tinsel]

the one under the stairs in undermine is pretty easy today

you just kill stuff

open chests

boss is easy

[broken swallow]

its bountiful, can i run it and just not open chest and itll stay bountiful?

[lilac stag]

If you’re EU fungal folly is rogues dream. It swapped for NA and it’s a little more challenging.

Save the bountiful for when you are running 11

[swift tinsel]

Stinkhole is bountiful today

[limber folio]

why do i get sub rings when id rather have assa rings

[keen dome]

can I have it

[swift tinsel]

same

[keen dome]

🥺

[swift tinsel]

/roll

[keen dome]

HoC did drop in my normal clear but I did not win it so I am heartbroken

[thin lion]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[novel marlin]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pallid hollow]

for consumables is it a sim angle or just send weaponstone beledar and vers flask?

[swift tinsel]

we had 3 Zee's drop from our Mugzee kill and I got none of them

[keen dome]

rip

Eye of Kezan dropped on gally but nadaaa.

[tepid trellis]

!symbols

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[swift tinsel]

We had a Best in Slot drop and people lost their shit bc we had 3 warriors 2 dks and a ret paladin in

on top of a feral

[keen dome]

Haha

[broken swallow]

spiral weave seems realtively quick

[honest saddle]

specifically I think the sub discord is more active and more engaged because it kind of has to be. It's a complicated spec, with complicated nuance and planning.

[keen dome]

Also we have some really powerful shitposters and that's integral to strong posting communities

[honest saddle]

real and true

and really strong leaders that are TC gods

[keen dome]

Yeah the work all the TC's in this discord put in is wild. I'm always super impressed.

Not just the research but presenting it well.

[serene owl]

Wonder if you don’t have the tier set do you still always sync symbols with sectech?

[honest saddle]

yes.

100% non negotiable

[serene owl]

yes boss!

Man I got opener down on lock just the mid part where it’s all balancing shadow dance and cooldowns and this that goes shambolic

[stoic shuttle]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[honest saddle]

I can make that really easy for you whozeyfa

[honest grail]

Is the spec supposed to feel like doodoo dogshit outside of dance

[serene owl]

Making me wanna resort to macros but don’t want jail time

[honest saddle]

think of the spec as a 90 second spec

that just repeats itself

break down your first 2 dances, then your third, your fourth, and then repeat the cycle

[honest grail]

I usually play specs with satisfying loops and cooldowns that amplify those

[honest saddle]

you do tank damage outside of cooldowns. This is a good thing most of the time. It allows you to be flexible and take advantage of moments where damage amps exists, aoe is present, or certain things need to die very quickly

[serene owl]

So would you say the order of many dances are pretty much the same

[honest saddle]

generally yes

however, fight design can modify

[honest grail]

It does feel wrong to do tank damage at times but I guess I need to just chill and trust the process

[serene owl]

To be fair I might be overthinking it because I’m queueing keys with a lot of 639 previous 4 set people and I’m 630 without any set at all

[honest grail]

My biggest hurdle atm is knowing when to hold dances

[serene owl]

And I’m behind by like 200M at the end of it

[serene owl]

Yeah same for me ! But much worse then you I bet

[lilac stag]

In lower keys just send

Do more harm “over holding”

[honest grail]

Especially in m+ sometimes I hold the dance and then when the cds are back the pack is almost dead so like

[gritty summit]

is it just me, or do i find myself with lots of 'no buttons to press' moments

[honest grail]

It just feels very awkward

[lilac stag]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[lilac stag]

You’ll either enjoy the gameplay or your won’t.

[honest saddle]

your first 2 dances happen on opener, then generally your third dance happens at ~30 seconds, then your 4th happens at around 50 seconds, then you are done, and you wait until the 90 second mark to start over again with flag blades.

But let's say adds come out at 40 seconds, not 30, it could be worth to wait a few seconds for adds to do your 3rd dance. This is the flexibility the spec has.

[proven coral]

sub and assassination are kinda like this at times

[modest delta]

what should be first craft? dagger prolly huh

[proven coral]

thats just class design

[tepid trellis]

nerf ret

[random comet]

And think he only needed one finger to do that too smh

[honest saddle]

and no legs

[random comet]

While licking the condensation off the window

[tepid trellis]

id go nuclear with a shaman in my guild group

but alas

i do not

[lilac stag]

no shaman is pain

[honest saddle]

kick those idiot plate wearers for a leather stack

[lilac stag]

That doesn’t get you a shaman

[honest saddle]

are you pushing keys?

I figured you were just spamming 7s or 10s

[lilac stag]

he’s running 10s

[gritty summit]

used to it on sin and fire mage, i guess just these lower keys makes me look like trash when the tank is slow pulli

[lilac stag]

From what I was watching

[lilac stag]

People are all learning. If it’s easier just go no KB assa

or just kill the bosses

[vale pine]

+1

[proven coral]

dmg is good from the get go from my experience on packs, its all about timing on low keys

sub kinda blows packs like rets

go in, press CDs, demolish mobs

[tepid trellis]

ret does no way near the amount of burst sub does tho

[gritty summit]

yeah i think im just not managing my CDs well enough, blowing them mid/late pack

[proven coral]

yup

[pallid hollow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2SNGQBEAy7w7WJsm5nTXco how doomed is my gear rn from 1 to a billion?

[proven coral]

not doing big enough pulls are an issue on the CD usage as well, it sounds counter intuitive to blow blades on 3 mobs for example

[serene owl]

Yeah I think I’m overthinking a lot I’m assuming 4 sets previous patch are huge and to not have that is quite a dps hit

[swift tinsel]

not at all

[proven coral]

things will get better as tanks get more experience

[serene owl]

So I should stop worrying on my numbers and maybe get the rotation down

[proven coral]

yeah, you'll get the feeling for timings and packs from experience, don't sweat over details numbers rn

[honest saddle]

youre only behind like 10-12% on most bis people atm

I think most of us went into the patch doing like 1.75-1.78

you'll catch up fast doing m+

[pallid hollow]

oke worst thing is i couldnt get my hands on a transmitter so yea, but it's kind of fine i guess

[honest saddle]

transmitter in m+ is kind of shitty

I mean it does good dam

but it can get you killed or in trouble

frontals etc etc

[swift crest]

seriius qst - in what world do i not craft a mythic dagger rn

[pallid hollow]

my 649 trinket is definitely worse than that, you just charge in a line for little to no damage

[fathom gazelle]

is it normal to be @ 100% mastrey?

[twilit phoenix]

are we taking depths over authority even for keys?

[honest saddle]

its within 1%

its pretty close either way

do whatever you want

[twilit phoenix]

guess it's a sim angle

[swift crest]

depths

[hazy breach]

Theyre about the same

[swift crest]

smone pls

[honest saddle]

thats a lotta mastery, brother

[pallid hollow]

!symbols

[alpine wraith]

big mastery enjoyers

[late vine]

what buff do I track to know/how do I know when i'm gonna get full CP after a finisher in my burst window?

[swift crest]

what situation would stop me from crafting a fat dagger rn

[honest saddle]

getting a mythic one

[swift crest]

from where

[honest saddle]

GET GUD

[twilit phoenix]

shadow techniques

[swift crest]

but i craft one right

[honest saddle]

I think so, Lightz

[twilit phoenix]

all of the WA packs in here have shadow techniques trackers

!wa