pvp crafted is 649
#subtlety
keen dome
It might fill out a slot, though. And it only takes the pvp thing, rather than a spark
And no other resources. So while it's very minimal, it's something that might be useful
steel zinc
And no other resources. So while it's very minimal, it's something that might be...
Time is an issue we have no hc week
Like even if you just raid 3 days you more likely spamming m+
keen dome
Well for people pushing Mythic week 1. But that's such a tiny portion of the playerbase
vale pine
^ it is even suggested to first craft a dagger with embellishment and later if you want to min/max can switch away to a diffrent option
keen dome
And loot rng is rng so having a deterministic way to fill a slot. Even if it's +10 iLevels, isn't the worst choice.
steel zinc
I wouldnt craft Dagger or anything first week tbh
I would wait first vault
and first reclear
tepid trellis
insta dagger
steel zinc
Pretend you dont have anything first week just content unlocked
tepid trellis
all gas no brakes
steel zinc
all gas no brakes
surely 😄
btw we have this season 2 really good daggers with mast/versa
one in raid and one in rookery
keen dome
Ye
hexed dagger
everything good comes from raid its so nice
tepid trellis
as a 3 day guild without splits
hexed dagger
besides like neck
tepid trellis
im insta getting dagger
rain stratus
^YEP
vale pine
as the only sub rogue in the guild
i am getting all vers mastery gear
because no fucking class or spec in the game wants it
hazy breach
Its like, do you want 5% more damage first week or 0.4% more damage week 2/3
tepid trellis
have to squeeze as much dmg out as i can week 1
shadow lance
because no fucking class or spec in the game wants it
Best reason to play sub
tepid trellis
i dont know what that is
hazy breach
And then its 
steel zinc
i am getting all vers mastery gear
also boe gear feet is versa mastery
vale pine
you can always wait for a craft for week 2
if you want to see if you don't need to craft dagger
tepid trellis
good thing is
even if i craft a dagger
i have two hands
so if 1 drops from mythic
steel zinc
if you want to see if you don't need to craft dagger
You will craft dagger for offhand trick
tepid trellis
it is a-okay
vale pine
offhand dagger is kinda one of the weak slots
but you are correct
dagger, you can't go wrong
keen dome
ye
dapper stirrup
Only if outlaw would be way better, but i'd doubt that
tepid trellis
outl
l
rain stratus
Outlaw has to be 20% better to even have a chance XD
hexed dagger
last time I used it literally was kurog
dapper stirrup
I just saw the sims on bloodmallet. Are we really holding on to Transmitter so long?
rain stratus
I am guaranteed 1st HoC cause I don't have transmitter XD
dapper stirrup
it looked like house of cards hc is worse then transmitter mythic
or is it just an illusion
rain stratus
Sure, the "fire and forget" condition of HoC is just way better QoL imo
golden kelp
or is it just an illusion
nope its correct, this is my mythic transmitter vs mythic HoC
shadow lance
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.Dance if anything
compact citrus
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tepid trellis
what should i macro pot with
if anything smack it onto flag
compact citrus
Outlaw sims highest, Sub cooked?
fallow nimbus
Yes
fallow nimbus
Cooking the other two
compact citrus
swap warrior instantly
Lmao
west tide
we craftin daggies boys??
also before reset is there anything i really need to do just did the story
rain stratus
Must be first tier where Outlaw sims higher is definitely is the go-to spec
compact citrus
Jokes aside. Sub seems in a good state aye?
leaden prairie
we craftin daggies boys??
Sword
keen dome
Sword?? in dagger chat???
leaden prairie
It's an outlaw tier buddy ..
austere zodiac
brainworm spec
tepid trellis
It's an outlaw tier buddy ..
west tide
my guild have too many weapon users on outlaw weapons....
leaden prairie
Class ye
leaden prairie
my guild have too many weapon users on outlaw weapons....
That's fine that's why you are crafting a sword
My cuh
Craft sword, loot dagger for off hand
What more can you ask for
steel zinc
my guild have too many weapon users on outlaw weapons....
bro you griefing as rogue playing outlaw first days
you have daggers for free
even with 2 rogues
austere zodiac
no i dont
tepid trellis
bro you griefing as rogue playing outlaw first days
remove "first days"
austere zodiac
im perma broke
tepid trellis
only way crafting a wep isnt troll is if you are in the RWF
leaden prairie
only way crafting a wep isnt troll is if you are in the RWF
Even then
You know about the uh
tepid trellis
nah not when dagger drops from 2nd boss
tepid trellis
which means you could do the recraft bug on rings
austere zodiac
trying to conversate with a outlaw players is hard
tepid trellis
and gain quite a bit through that
leaden prairie
which means you could do the recraft bug on rings
Ok but
west tide
oh ya i did that last tier
leaden prairie
You are not doing that
west tide
with weapons and rings
leaden prairie
You are keeping the ring circlet
leaden prairie
It's barely worse than a ring
tepid trellis
hc rings
leaden prairie
No?
tepid trellis
and its out
tepid trellis
we arent the green text spec
west tide
oh ya do i need to change my circlet gems since the nerf
tepid trellis
i probably will do wep
leaden prairie
rain stratus
oh ya do i need to change my circlet gems since the nerf
Look at the pins
west tide
ty gangie
keen dome
I just want goon squad trinket.
keen dome
that's the goal for week 1. HoC? Amazing, sure. But goon squad trinket? 10/10
leaden prairie
no splts gang
Oh you do 0 splits? Idk about that cuh..
Splits are so easy, so fast and so free
tepid trellis
out of principle
tepid trellis
we dont want to
hazy breach
I mean it might even be good to craft a trinket 💀
leaden prairie
Is kinda free idk..
leaden prairie
I mean it might even be good to craft a trinket 💀
Ok man
Go back to the cook station
keen dome
Cursed knowledge
tepid trellis
hope he doesent mind me sharing this
i asked my RL exactly why we dont do splits
"To hold 2 characters up to date to funnel gear into 1 and running 2x raids just seems super unfun. We have a ton of OTPs in the guild, so forcing people to make mirror alts / playing something they dont want to or is really bad at, is just a big NOPE. I think its more fun to see how far we can go without doing any of that, similar to how outside raidleading is without a doubt better on alot of bosses, its just not something id wanna do. And now its sort of become our brand that we are this high WR guild that doesent do splits and we have people join us for the sole reason to avoid splits. If we had alot of people that wanted to do splits then id probably cave in and do it, but as of now more than half dont wanna do it."
had to translate it xD
that is why
keen dome
Hero, honestly
void hound
based honestly
hazy breach
Go back to the cook station
Bro theres unitonircally like 8 trinkets that sim within 0.2% of kezan, one of which is the crafted one
leaden prairie
i asked my RL exactly why we dont do splits
"To hold 2 characters up to date to ...
Well ok but
keen dome
That's a very healthy attitude. Your raid lead is cool, Stealthi
keen dome
Having a good niche is also really cool for raiding
void hound
also you could just make two of the same class (like me)
leaden prairie
We were doing splits with half the guild having mega mega rats
tepid trellis
we are the only non split guild in our WR range
keen dome
That rules.
leaden prairie
You just have one chat and one alt that is NM geared whatever the fuck you can get
hazy breach
Literally simple as that
tepid trellis
wr 50 without splits aint bad
keen dome
Hell yeah
tepid trellis
if raided wednesdays instead of thursdays
leaden prairie
I mean if half the guild doesnt want to do it
Do they not wanna do it because they are scared of having to actually up keep an alt
tepid trellis
we wouldve gotten wr 30ish this tier
leaden prairie
Or do they not wanna do it
Cause as I said you don't need real alts
Could legit be half the raid afk
Hc is too easy for these type of guilds
austere zodiac
Korruptio deadge
tepid trellis
now its majority is danish/swedish
austere zodiac
now its majority is danish/swedish
ew
keen dome
haha
austere zodiac
what a downgrade
void hound
DANSK?
No mean to stealthi
west tide
what european country got the pound for pound best players if there was a world cup race to w1st
tepid trellis
probably swedes
austere zodiac
paragon xdd
west tide
thatd be a cool concept
keen dome
Not a singular but I'd just collectively say "The nordics" 'cos all good players I know seem to be from that area.
west tide
to do
tepid trellis
eeyyy <:sitmadge:1098972930605588491> No mean to stealthi
hey he sorta flamed you too
i got the double whammy tho
austere zodiac
Not a singular but I'd just collectively say "The nordics" 'cos all good players...
the climate affects that
keen dome
the climate affects that
I'd love to move to Finland. Maybe then I'd be a competent sub rogue.
tepid trellis
think we 8 or 9 danish people in colour now
we just recruited 1 more like last week
austere zodiac
denmark is a swedish city
tepid trellis
nah we are the older country
copenhagen is south sweden tho
that i will agree on
tepid trellis
dont actualy think we have any finns at all in the guild anymore
austere zodiac
usso taunttaa
austere zodiac
dont actualy think we have any finns at all in the guild anymore
why yall on stormreaver still
tepid trellis
cba moving it
rough geyser
Can the rogue developer please for the love of god and all that is good redesign Deathstalkers mark to apply from cheap shot or backstab
tepid trellis
and its kinda funny being apart of the twitter shenanigans
of the stormreaver shuffle
austere zodiac
your name seems finnish
austere zodiac
the i at the end
leaden prairie
dont actualy think we have any finns at all in the guild anymore
Are you guys ana English speaking guild
tepid trellis
Contact the wow devs man..
i have about as much pull as a spaghetti
rough geyser
fucj
tepid trellis
Are you guys ana English speaking guild
yes
rough geyser
deathstalkers mark forever the reason sub rogue is clunky to play
tepid trellis
unless you count swearing in danish every once in a while mixed language
tepid trellis
deathstalkers mark forever the reason sub rogue is clunky to play
good thing we dont play that anymore then
rough geyser
U do in pvp🥰
tepid trellis
austere zodiac
who plays pvp tho
rough geyser
last time i played pve was bfa
rough geyser
For drest agath trinket
austere zodiac
its my first expansion so i just did some for transmog
tepid trellis
For drest agath trinket
okay that is kinda based
that trinket prenerf was funny af
vale pine
who plays pvp tho
there is a small but loud group of people who do
rough geyser
Also did m+ for the bike trinket
rough geyser
I got that bitch max ilvl from the chest
leaden prairie
With 0 gear
leaden prairie
Me when I spend the whole tier with heroic gear
tepid trellis
killing nymue during enrage week 1 of amirdrassil was funny af
tepid trellis
not to brag but
leaden prairie
that tier we got world 7th on the 2nd boss
Ok buddy
Absolute randoms get world first on the first bosses
tepid trellis
yep
tepid trellis
yeh
only tier so far where its felt impossible to kill a boss for us
was arberrus Rashok week 1
rest has been okay
steel zinc
was arberrus Rashok week 1
that boss is one of the best in recent raiding. You could outgear it but still if 2 people were had floor pov it got spicy even in farm.
Boss was omega simple but just fun to execute
tepid trellis
boss kinda just flopped after week 1 for us
but we also spend like 50 pulls on it week 1
so the fight itself was very easy for us
and then ofc on farm, we decided to 2 heal it
cuz why not
leaden prairie
was arberrus Rashok week 1
I was lucky enough to be in a guild where we hit the enrage
alpine wraith
we didnt get through anduin but the timers were tight
tepid trellis
think we had 18 sec or so for enrage
leaden prairie
Ye but I meant
young mural
shi i got muted last time i talked here for being a annoying little shit
leaden prairie
If you did rashok a few weeks after
young mural
but im back w a question
leaden prairie
You never hit enrage
tepid trellis
nah it was just a week 1 wall
leaden prairie
but im back w a question
!mute @young mural 10h ugly
tepid trellis
or two if you were in a worse off guild i guess
young mural
!mute <@302644373798256641> 10h ugly
Actually scared the shit out of me
young mural
So with symbols of death, if its 16% damage increase is active during the burst window, and im using the 2 rotten stacks on shadowstrike im good right?
rain stratus
Entirely depends on the scenario
tepid trellis
on single target sure
young mural
on single target sure
what would change on AOE?
young mural
ohh true, because of the rotten's guaranteed crit
true citrus
Anyone know of useful guides for sub rogue, really struggling to learn it
rain stratus
!guides
young mural
would you be biased and say yours is the best?
tepid trellis
no
think the most indepth one is icyveins
we have different guide lines as to what can be put in em
tepid trellis
and its also at the discretion of the one making it
vale pine
my opener section goes a lot in detail ^^
tepid trellis
all the minmax stuff isnt really something, someone that is new to the spec is gonna remotely understand
leaden prairie
1980 looking ass website
rain stratus
Kinda like Outlaw, flat and boring
tepid trellis
and if they want some minmax stuff, they can come to the discord
leaden prairie
Not coming to the discord
Bunch of sims goblins that don't play the game
You guys won't get me
young mural
and if they want some minmax stuff, they can come to the discord
Unrelated fun fact, I discovered you before you before I even joined the rogue discord I think, watching your amirdrassil mythic kills during dragonflight
tepid trellis
lol
young mural
I was fucking disturbed when i saw sub rogue's actual potential compared to my performance at the time
And I've been training and trying to improve since. still suck. but suck less so we're going places
anyways
do you guys think we'll see a sub rogue from echo or liquid in RWF?
alpine wraith
possible
young mural
possible
Agreed. I've seen absolutely nothing about the new raid so idk if there's a boss where sub rogue's damage profile would be good
young mural
i think you are gonna see sub alot week 1
you think assa is getting buffed and becoming best for M+ in S2?
vale pine
execute makes assassination a big topic this tier
tepid trellis
assa needs some changes i think
for it be great in m+
or they over buff it
who knows
young mural
execute makes assassination a big topic this tier
you're talking about sudden demise?
tepid trellis
zoldyck
vale pine
^
tepid trellis
yeh
so like if last phase + mythic phase of gallywix
isnt just 2min long
then yeah assa will be very good
young mural
oh shit, is this talent new?
vale pine
n
no
they buffed it however at certain points
to be 35% and below, so lasts longer
young mural
wow I was unaware of its existence
vale pine
you can think of it like this
young mural
seems very good in high keys and mythic raids
rain stratus
you think assa is getting buffed and becoming best for M+ in S2?
Assasination is already the best rogue spec in m+
vale pine
bosses especially the later ones can be designed in phases
and if the last phase is either very long or very important
young mural
Assasination is already the best rogue spec in m+
I feel like outlaw is winning with current tuning no?
rain stratus
I feel like outlaw is winning with current tuning no?
No
mystic cloak
only way outlaw can win is with a rework
fallow nimbus
Endboss should start hard and get easier with every phase
young mural
wow, why were people crying about assassination then? I thought they had buffed massively outlaw, buffed sub and nerfed assass
rain stratus
Queen was decently frontloaded tbh
fallow nimbus
So big gear skips the hard part later on
rain stratus
wow, why were people crying about assassination then? I thought they had buffed ...
Assasination single target is abyssmal in dungeons, their AoE is cracked tho
sour forum
pls dont let this be like last season, started sub demolishing assas, then assa starting taking over. 
vale pine
think thats not the entire true cruzerio
rocky ocean
at least it feels abysmal
vale pine
assassination gets a lot of single target output simply by having a 2nd or 3rd target
young mural
love to unverplay how strong it can be
Yhea, I played destruction warlock during S1 and I didn't know how much more shadowburn (exec) i should've been pressing. its insane
hollow spear
Sub is definitely better in M+ this season than it was last
young mural
Sub is definitely better in M+ this season than it was last
100%
keen dome
Sub is definitely better in M+ this season than it was last
Espescially the first half of S1. 
vale pine
you can also adjust pulls to have a 2nd target
hollow spear
But it's still very tank dependent
vale pine
so assasinations "bad single target" isn't rly that much of a downside
hollow spear
Lots of small pulls are giga bad
young mural
assassination gets a lot of single target output simply by having a 2nd or 3rd t...
doesnt it depend alot on your build too? I mean you can balance your aoe/st output by playing supercharger
rain stratus
It is for the average group imo
young mural
and other asass tree changes
sour forum
idk i feel like early weeks the only thing that can deplete a key is bosses
hollow spear
sin does well without cooldowns in M+
vale pine
doesnt it depend alot on your build too? I mean you can balance your aoe/st outp...
you can adjust your damage profile with talents too
for sure
but my point is, you shouldn't make it sound like sin does no single target
while you have options to massively increase your single target output by simply having additional targets
especially in a game mode you rarely face one target at the time
for efficiency reasons
young mural
yhea agreed. of course it wont perform like a sub rogue on single target but its a very strong spec all around
sour forum
sooo what sort of %dmg gain are we talking by delaying cold blood to 2nd sectec? 
alpine wraith
1.2% around that with new tier
young mural
sooo what sort of %dmg gain are we talking by delaying cold blood to 2nd sectec?...
someone told me 1%
vale pine
~1% with the new tier set
rain stratus
While I definitely agree, I am also convinced that for the average group it wont be the case, unless the norm of "not having adds on boss" changes for groups past premades
sour forum
hmmm, might be worth doing... another keybind yaaaay
young mural
hmmm, might be worth doing... another keybind yaaaay
thats how i felt a week ago
vale pine
the average group won't play key levels the diffrence matters ^^
tribal blade
if you want to talk about early success in keys, sub is WAY tankier than sin
rain stratus
hmmm, might be worth doing... another keybind yaaaay
Not really, you just bind CB and SecTech together and press that when you wanna use CB with SecTech 🙂
tribal blade
which will be more important when nobody knows wtf is going on
rain stratus
And have a normal bind for SecTech of course
young mural
if you want to talk about early success in keys, sub is WAY tankier than sin
fade to nothing enjoyer
sour forum
Not really, you just bind CB and SecTech together and press that when you wanna ...
well 2 binds for sec tec, same shit
but i get what you're saying
rain stratus
Oh you didnt have CB on its own bind before?
sour forum
less brain power required
young mural
yhea i prefer 1000% 2 sec tech binds
i run it like this, the cold blood button is a CB/sec tech macro
sour forum
that was the only ez macro i had for sub even that is gone
and pot i guess
the real piano spec
young mural
which will be more important when nobody knows wtf is going on
main issue next week and a few weeks after that will be mechanics
we'll start with enough gear to run 8's with a real solid group im sure
thing is no one knows what they're doing
sour forum
idk, ppl on ptr are kinda dooming how hard the keys are
young mural
idk, ppl on ptr are kinda dooming how hard the keys are
theres no way
hazy breach
?
young mural
eleem mentioned lmao
young mural
idk, ppl on ptr are kinda dooming how hard the keys are
they said they were significantly nerfing M+ difficulty
hazy breach
Ye 1.2%, like the others said
rocky ocean
it's 2% I saw it in a dream
sour forum
its 3% its fine
hazy breach
But thats before the nerfs
sour forum
just do it 5head
steel zinc
after nerfs its dead ok 😄
vale pine
give me a sec
young mural
fuu about to pull out the calc
keen dome
oh no
verbal turret
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.There will be dungeons like theater you can run on +12 first day and there are some like flames where you just wanna kill yourself
candid raven
I CAN STILL DO IT
I'm turning 30 on sunday, so before that I'm still young and dynamic and able to go nerding hard. I feel you!
young mural
There will be dungeons like theater you can run on +12 first day and there are s...
oh true
sour forum
I'm turning 30 on sunday, so before that I'm still young and dynamic and able to...
i turned 30 in december
young mural
priory is going to be a nightmare
keen dome
Don't worry you'll have a lot more.
vital monolith
Any post-nerf Sims for Sub vs Assa with and without the new tier set?
steel zinc
priory is going to be a nightmare
others too. Its omega pain some dungeons.
steel zinc
Any post-nerf Sims for Sub vs Assa with and without the new tier set?
Tuesday
young mural
Im in my prime degen days, 22y/o 
tuesday is going to go crazy
haughty mural
you younglings 
steel zinc
Sub sims like ~2510 something
candid raven
When does the season start in EU? 6am?
sour forum
around that
umbral relic
Is there any good guide on the next dungeons? Want to learn things
steel zinc
When does the season start in EU? 6am?
yeah when servers are up
sour forum
Is there any good guide on the next dungeons? Want to learn things
quazii on youtube is pretty dope
candid raven
I have work at 11:30. Might get a few runs in
steel zinc
dont look up every dungeon every guide
just get a good weak aura and plater profile
that does 90% of the job
dont stand in fire and just learn some basic tricks for each dungeon that are not obvs
glacial stag
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
umbral relic
I’d like to make my own plater, so I’m looking for guide on which mob/spell need highlight
umbral relic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtYySITpwqs
Thanks mate
vale pine
fuu rn
na, just wanted to check back but the 1.2% seems fine. The nerf to tier set should make it lower tho
young mural
oh ye did meeres update his dungeon wa? didnt check
naowh's is going to be updated tuesday
s2 dungeon auras already available for testing
vale pine
but its like
sour forum
if its better then tarithal, ill throw him a sub
vale pine
exactly
sour forum
even tho sec tec got nerfed 
young mural
we shouldnt macro dance + symbols just because when you use CDs you want 2 dances to go off back to back and the 2nd symbols to be a bit staggered until next sec tech right?
vale pine
the set was nerfed by 25%
keen dome
Enough for me to be confidently lazy with the macro
hollow spear
we shouldnt macro dance + symbols just because when you use CDs you want 2 dance...
yes
sour forum
we shouldnt macro dance + symbols just because when you use CDs you want 2 dance...
wait, we dance back to back? dont u have a delay between em anyway? to get sec tec back?
hollow spear
They still haven't hotfixed transmitter another time?
vale pine
no
but its not like opressive
its good
but you will replace it with a mythic cards
can even do heroic for qol
sour forum
transmitter needs to die, together with that shit tiny orb
young mural
wait, we dance back to back? dont u have a delay between em anyway? to get sec t...
in big burst window you want to drop 2 dances back to back
sour forum
that hides behinds queens big ass
shy ermine
It’s a 20% tier nerf assuming we stay at max stacks permanently
hollow spear
wait, we dance back to back? dont u have a delay between em anyway? to get sec t...
you dance back to back and you wait for your symbols until sectec has < 11 seconds left
shy ermine
I’ve not played it so idk how many stacks we have during cds and dance
sour forum
you dance back to back and you wait for your symbols until sectec has < 11 secon...
ooooooooooh
hollow spear
can even do heroic for qol
I think heroic hoc sims like 0.9% lower than my mythic transmitter. Maybe that changes a little with better ilvl.
sour forum
that makes some sense i guess...
hollow spear
delaying your second dance is a waste of cooldown stacking
vale pine
heroic is lower, i posted a sim comparing it a while ago
hollow spear
yeah, the 0.9% are from my personal sim
my character is weird anyways, for some reason my TFD sims are quite a bit worse than others haha
young mural
my character is weird anyways, for some reason my TFD sims are quite a bit worse...
whats TFD?
hollow spear
the first dance
young mural
yhea idk about simming it, are you doing dungeon slice?
cloud gale
do targets hit via nimble flurry eviscerates benefit from shadowed finishers (find weakness)
candid raven
I'm almost glad I never got mythic transmitter. In the kills I got, it never dropped. That means I can replace it sooner!
hollow spear
yhea idk about simming it, are you doing dungeon slice?
I sim for ST
sour forum
yea... i have a heroic transmitter aswell
young mural
I sim for ST
I think its worse for ST/raid compared to M+
you basically get 1 use per fight on ST
hollow spear
It seems to be quite close on single target for others at around the 4 minute mark
With my gear, it doesn't do that
alpine wraith
tfd likes mastery a bit more than usual
but nothing crazy
that is why for me it sims quite decently
vestal escarp
vers spec
young mural
hacha are you a mastery monster?
alpine wraith
next tier we have more access to mastery
rn i have like 16k vs 15k vers or something like that
vestal escarp
live?
alpine wraith
cant log in but they are quite close mastery being a bit higher
vestal escarp
nah that doesnt add up 
rancid finch
What stats should I aim for? wowhead guide says "Vers, Mast, Crit are close", then "Mast >= Vers > Crit > Haste" and the graphic says "Vers > Mast >> Crit >= Haste", so I'm a little unsure.
Is there a specific stat distribution I should aim for? Or is it just a sim angle?
hollow spear
I have like 3.5k more mastery than vers and TFD still sims like 20k below WM at 2 minutes 💀
regal siren
If you look at the rogue streamers tab it forces you into this cesspit lol.
vestal escarp
dw more sin buffs coming
hollow spear
What stats should I aim for? wowhead guide says "Vers, Mast, Crit are close", th...
It's always a sim angle. The hard rule is no haste, the rest has to be simmed.
rancid finch
Ok ty
young mural
What stats should I aim for? wowhead guide says "Vers, Mast, Crit are close", th...
keep in mind mastery is very strong for aoe and multi target situations
regal siren
Since I'm here though are y'all realistically thinking sub is viable without duel?
vestal escarp
no
young mural
Since I'm here though are y'all realistically thinking sub is viable without due...
yes still great in pvp
rancid finch
dw more sin buffs coming
i wanna learn a new spec anyway
vestal escarp
good, sub is fun
rancid finch
wanted to start with it actually, but assa was just better and way easier to get into 
marble mauve
Its normal to get lack of energy on sub rogue?
regal siren
Shadowstep used to be like the best mobility in the game but compared to what's regular now it feels terrible, I can't go back from grapple hook, lord forgive me.
vestal escarp
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
marble mauve
I feel if i miss a global on a rotation, im fucked up with energy
marble mauve
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you...
Thanks, thats a good explanation 🙂
tulip badger
We never rupture inside dance even if it drops?
regal siren
Its normal to get lack of energy on sub rogue?
Use a vigor build for a minute, if you're going out of energy ur def using supercharger and you need to get used to some things before you use that lol.
vestal escarp
We never rupture inside dance even if it drops?
yes refresh it beforehand
young mural
We never rupture inside dance even if it drops?
it shouldnt drop since you're using rupture to stack flagellation at start of burst
tulip badger
Okkey
spare turtle
Hey, I've been looking at logs in m+ and I saw backstab and eviscerate being used in aoe situations. Is there a particular reason to use that instead of shuriken storm and black powder?
spare turtle
Oh I see, so basically shuriken storm and black powder are ignored?
sour forum
outside of dance u can use shuriken storm on 3+ targets and black powder on 7+ targets
u can check more details here, in the m+/aoe rotation
spare turtle
I will thank you
sullen oar
Can someone inform me on the % gain going from nerubar 4p to new 4p pretty please?
lilac stag
Can someone inform me on the % gain going from nerubar 4p to new 4p pretty pleas...
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
regal siren
Hey, I've been looking at logs in m+ and I saw backstab and eviscerate being use...
I hadn't really thought about it but why ARE unintuitive edge cases like this so common in this game?
hazy breach
Is it unintuitive if you purposefully select a talent that says "you should eviscerate on aoe"
sour forum
idk if id call this an edge case
spare turtle
Sorry I just missed it
vestal escarp
Which Edge case? We cant spec fatebound
hazy breach
BP being better on 7 and 8 targets than cleaving eviscerate, thats an "unituitive edge case"
regal siren
I'm specially referring to it being unintuitive in the sense that we have "aoe abilities" we never use, and edge case in the sense that if it's between 7-8 then you change it lol.
hazy breach
I mean its 7 or more, its not only 7 or 8
sullen oar
So im assuming fuus sheet is only updated for sub
hazy breach
Yes
summer peak
AND 8 targets
hazy breach
You always strike in dance
Because otherwise the trickster gameplay loop doesnt work (and it does a ton of damage)
regal siren
Wish trickster distract actually worked as a second smoke bomb and then it'd see some play in pvp.
honest saddle
can someone give me a real quick tldr on why we would craft a weapon with ascendance instead of 2x lense?
regal siren
The way it's worded you'd initially think that is how it works.
hazy breach
It also doesnt really matter
honest saddle
hachadino had mentioned it earlier yesterday
hazy breach
The sim difference is like 0.1-0.2%
honest saddle
and it confused me
vestal escarp
the absolute state of embellishments
hazy breach
Idk
hazy breach
Neither of them scale really
young mural
can someone give me a real quick tldr on why we would craft a weapon with ascend...
AOE AOE AOE AOE AOE
sour forum
im just going with this 
young mural
but as eleem said, its irrelevant
honest saddle
yeah it could be aoe reasons
leaden prairie
can someone give me a real quick tldr on why we would craft a weapon with ascend...
Because week one you craft a weapon with ascendance, while using a s1 wrist with the "double embel" thing
young mural
ill be fucking crafting a dagger with ascension because i think its cooler
leaden prairie
So you get 2 S2 embel for the price of one basically
regal siren
It would've been too much effort to put the new passives from the raid weps as embellishs, the dots til you die ones.
hazy breach
So you get 2 S2 embel for the price of one basically
Well that would be great if there was any difference between S1 and S2 embellishment
leaden prairie
So you get 2 S2 embel for the price of one basically
It's usually good
regal siren
Honestly with the healer meta, mightve been cool
young mural
Because week one you craft a weapon with ascendance, while using a s1 wrist with...
you can do it with lens too lmao
what do you mean zacro
leaden prairie
Well that would be great if there was any difference between S1 and S2 embellish...
Ok well idk doesnt it scale with Ilvl
hazy breach
Nop
leaden prairie
In df I was doing that every season with uh
young mural
you can have 2 lenses 1st week too using a S1 piece of crafter gear lmao
leaden prairie
The slimy boots and toxic boots
hazy breach
Ye in DF embellishments were 3x as good as they are now
leaden prairie
Does nothing scale with Ilvl
young mural
leaden prairie
I'm confused
vestal escarp
young mural
Does nothing scale with Ilvl
just read tooltips
hazy breach
None of the stat ones do, the special crafted ones have a very slight scaling
But practically nothing no
leaden prairie
just read tooltips
No
hazy breach
Like zac
leaden prairie
ok french dog
?
hazy breach
Just absolute numbers
leaden prairie
You Wana get muted again or what
Thought you got muted yesterday cause you were annoying
young mural
isnt this a french dog?
hazy breach
Its 1.4k stats while the current one is 750
leaden prairie
You speedrunning a ban or what
sour forum
thats a bear
young mural
Its 1.4k stats while the current one is 750
wow
young mural
i loved BSL
young mural
hadnt thought about how shit current embellishments are
sour forum
winnie never had a baguette
honest saddle
leaden prairie
Ye well now he has a baguette
honest saddle
leaden prairie
Mad cause bad
regal siren
As of rn the 90k gem color shiz still the best, I'm not 100% convinced the nerub people with their adrenal belts actually accomplished anything but more brain damage
honest saddle
one of these things is not like the otherrrrrr
leaden prairie
None of the stat ones do, the special crafted ones have a very slight scaling
So like lens doesn't have scaling either ?
Doesn't that mean in S2 embels are practically worthless
Compared to s1
hazy breach
So like lens doesn't have scaling either ?
Very minor, like 5% more damage
hazy breach
Doesn't that mean in S2 embels are practically worthless
Yes, theyre worth like 10 ilvls on bracers
young mural
ill check bloodmallet
leaden prairie
Yes, theyre worth like 10 ilvls on bracers
Hm
hazy breach
They were practically worthless season 1 too
jaunty heath
Don’t you dare insult my pookie he’s not a dog 
sour forum
its a bunny, right
remote shuttle
Its 1.4k stats while the current one is 750
Ye also as our stats are increased from DF so the buff should be higher than df... But is lower...
tepid trellis
to zeross it probably looks like coyote
sour forum
eleem has a rat avatar 
hazy breach
Ye also as our stats are increased from DF so the buff should be higher than df....
Yep
regal siren
kind of a moot point bc it's so easy to level a shaman rn you could realistically gear an enh in the next 3 hours. And there's only 2 paths after that, it gets nerfed and you did the Lord's work, or it doesn't and you're OP. Just saying.
leaden prairie
leaden prairie
to zeross it probably looks like coyote
Ok mister cat
vestal escarp
Stealthi has a dog avatar
tepid trellis
Ok mister cat
hey, i know my animals
rain stratus
By Shaman you mean Mage? Shades of blue are broken
tepid trellis
its him that doesent
steel zinc
im just going with this <:peeposhrug:657382266921812009>
@vale pine this is wrong btw. We had Versa Mastery BOE shoes. So that shouldnt be a craft imo
honest saddle
whats the max craft ilvl we can do week 1
remote shuttle
Yep
Also in my head a vers buff depending on your HP is not good... When u are low life u also lose some dr losing that versa.... I preferred mast buff, so as u go lower on hp u still have same defense
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> this is wrong btw. We had Versa Mastery BOE shoes. So that...
we have vers mastery in all low impact slots ^^
regal siren
What mastery are you talking about lol.
hazy breach
Also in my head a vers buff depending on your HP is not good... When u are low l...
You can get crit too if you want instead 
steel zinc
we have vers mastery in all low impact slots ^^
yeah but but not on Neck 
remote shuttle
Ye but crit too low impact
steel zinc
I would craft Hands ngl
rain stratus
Crit aint bad on Trickster
steel zinc
Like long term we dont have versa mastery hands
regal siren
Y'all are speaking some kind of negligent made up language designed to piss people off and I personally don't appreciate it.
rich copper
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
regal siren
You'll be capped you fucking psychopath you can't keep up this facade
vale pine
yeah but but not on Neck <:3Head:588837905376477203>
what shoes are master/vers?
steel zinc
what shoes are master/vers?
boes
regal siren
idk mate u came in here telling us to gear shamans
That's the least troll thing I've ever said
sour forum
do we even know if boe are actually boes till rwf finishes?
i remember last tier they were bop
hazy breach
do we even know if boe are actually boes till rwf finishes?
Assuming they havent changed it from nerubar Mythic will be BoP until further notice
HC and below will be BoE
sour forum
wait they do that?
regal siren
The only 2 places on earth that are 8:30 rn are Brazil or Tokyo
sour forum
calling him a ragnaros player?
regal siren
Not quite, just expressing sympathy either way.
vale pine
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=232658/firebugs-anklegear
not a upgrade
regal siren
I'm gonna be real, I just have a lot of timezones on my clock, I am unsure how to navigate this conversation further lol.
Probably your father but I prefer not to think about it.
alpine wraith
blessed weapon grip is a better standalone embellish for wep for all things although as someone said embellish are kinda whatever now
elemental lens was always some whack noodle that hits only for st for me
so ascendancy+patch is whatever vs it if you get higher ilvl on things
regal siren
Thought y'all were down there in the Portuguese, hitting that TH really hard.
Again, wouldn't know, definitely not your dad, definitely never visited Brazil.
rocky ocean
I'm crafting the feather set shit items. God gave me free will and I will use it
young mural
I'm crafting the feather set shit items. God gave me free will and I will use it
good luck "parsing"
rocky ocean
cant parse without guild
young mural
cant parse without guild
cant get guild w/o parse
rocky ocean
💀
young mural
im really happy trickster is the st meta now too
leaden prairie
cant parse without guild
sometimes its easier to parse in pugs
more padding you know
honest saddle
spoken like a true scumbag
young mural
historically so tricky is the best talent ever added for rogues
hollow spear
What is going on in this chat? Feels like the sin discord rn
upbeat oracle
random sin rant
rocky ocean
leaden prairie
did they fix it
hollow spear
don't think so
young mural
did they fix it
it has been working
hollow spear
I changed to the other (worthless) talent
young mural
what is broken about it?
hollow spear
just to get rid of the damn perma trick thingy over my head
steel zinc
not a upgrade
but your waisting a spark
steel zinc
buying boe is free (gold just)
young mural
buying ___________ is free 
young mural
oh, haven't tested it in ptr
vestal escarp
buying ___________ is free <:garf:1320173032743899157>
Is this a hanged man game?
young mural
but cant imagine how this trashy company managed to break it
distant plinth
At how many targets do we prioritise ShuriStorm over BS outside of SD?
tribal blade
you can press backstab once as it falls off, usually UB will have reset by then
hazy breach
But you can also just BP until dance again, doesnt matter that much
tribal blade
yah BP does actual dam now
regal siren
the trolling is crazy.
hazy breach
Take it to DMs 
regal siren
Did he delete all his messages?
tribal blade
the trolling is crazy.
wait are you refering to me?
tribal blade
haha that's very true
keen dome
BP doing actual damage is funny considering.. DF.. haha
lilac stag
haha that's very true
Just blocking outlaw roles. 
rocky ocean
wait till they add pink powder
and we will dpsing with PP
keen dome
Haha
jaunty heath
we following fuu spreadsheet or wowhead?
void ocean
was expecting to read today about Blizz reverting the nerfs... alas, my disappointment is immeasurable...
lilac stag
It’s 4am in Cali. Ain’t no one up making tuning posts.
rocky ocean
was expecting to read today about Blizz reverting the nerfs... alas, my disappoi...
we should've been more subtle
keen dome
Maybe tomorrow they increase purple by 10%
void ocean
next patch we all sandbagging
rocky ocean
so deserved nerf
keen dome
That way we can compete with shadowpriests. Turn up the purple.
regal siren
Imagine thinking they revert shit when their mortal strike and black arrow hot fixes didn't even work
vale pine
so deserved nerf
what do we talk about exactly?
void ocean
what do we talk about exactly?
false expectations.
lilac stag
rogue bad. Bliz nerf anyways. Gg
regal siren
Why do we think exactly, right now, the transfer honor button is off?
void ocean
rogue bad. Bliz nerf anyways. Gg
back to assa
lilac stag
Because all war bound is disable.
rocky ocean
what do we talk about exactly?
that's the 100000'th joke about the specs name
rain stratus
Dave?
frank musk
Together, we are dave.
regal siren
Some people are dave. The rest of us are still humans.
rain stratus
Ill take Dave over human any day
frank musk
Dave is human, but hes very davelike.
frank musk
Dave and Susan are locked in an eternal competition of hide and seek.
I do not think we will ever see the end of it, hence why it is eternal.
shadow lance
Does anyone know if it's possible to castsequence Flag + trinket followed by shadow blades + potion?
steep raven
Just have 2 keybinds
shadow lance
I guess I will if that's not possible
steep raven
It's possible but you have to press same keybind 4 times
lilac stag
The step people will go to avoid pressing abilities.
steep raven
Just have 1 keybind for flag+trinket and 2nd with SB+Pot
void ocean
but my fingers hurt
steep raven
Literally less buttons to press than castsequence
void ocean
just click on it
lilac stag
Fix your binds. There aren’t that many
void ocean
we should bring the clicking back
shadow lance
But I just wanted to know if we could put multiple cast in for each sequence in castsequence
lilac stag
@uncut oar Clicking Sub Rogue arc in s2?
shadow lance
Fix your binds. There aren’t that many
Not the amount neither, I just used to have 1 keybind for main cd
oak rune
Why flag and trinket it’s not even sent together
lilac stag
Play BM?
void ocean
just buy 19button mouse
shadow lance
I'll play ret then
lilac stag
Because it’s not optimal. Trinket aligns with Sectech / Sblades
void ocean
the only macro I made is Shadow Blades + Sec tech 😄
shadow lance
Why flag and trinket it’s not even sent together
You got 1/2 sec to activate transmitter, so it activates with blades
lilac stag
we are cd stacking spec doing everything we can to have everything in alignment for second cast of SecTech
haughty mural
I'll play ret then
lilac stag
have fun with Ret. Most people do
tribal blade
i was doing a make a wish queen with my RL who's a hunter
and he was like "i'm gonna practice BM doing this"
we kill her, we look at details and our warr is like "i thought you were trying BM"
and then he says "yeah i was going to, and then i saw there's literally nothing to practice so just stayed MM"
lilac stag
Barb Shot Kill Command
lilac stag
Free the rogue with your pet on webs
keen dome
Haha
lilac stag
I get the frustrations of learning new things, but sub is a prime example of chasing meta not working out when you prefer a rotation or proc based system that is way simpler to learn off the get go.
not that sub is insanely difficult. You just need to approach it differently.
Change is hard.
tribal blade
i still remember people having literal meltdowns over having to swap from sin to sub for smoldy
lilac stag
Do we get to have meltdowns for having to swap for execute?
keen dome
not that sub is insanely difficult. You just need to approach it differently.
Yeah. It's just complex. Gotta sit down and learn and it's not intutive to figure out. Which is too much work for a lot of people, which is also fair.
void ocean
i still remember people having literal meltdowns over having to swap from sin to...
that would be me.
keen dome
Just refuse and proudly say "I am the execute"
vestal escarp
Do we get to have meltdowns for having to swap for execute?
Hows prog?
tribal blade
depends if we actually need the execute
lilac stag
sub reminds me more of a project manager thought process. You have to see the end goal (2nd Sectech) and work backwards.
Most want step by step instructions.
keen dome
Hell yeah
tribal blade
https://tenor.com/view/jacksparrow-sinking-gif-19769322
that's crazy you found a gif of the state of outlaw right now
void ocean
that's crazy you found a gif of the state of outlaw right now
what would that deck represent, a respec to sub? 😄
tribal blade
what would that deck represent, a respec to sub? 😄
you know it 😉
lilac stag
that's crazy you found a gif of the state of outlaw right now
Only in their heads. It’s top simming rogue spec. They’re fine. 
tribal blade
yeah i agree, they'll be ok
maybe less so for M+ depending on how pulls shape up, but in raid they'll be good
void ocean
sim bait
void ocean
last time I tried outlaw was on that duck council 😄 goddamn downtime was awful
lilac stag
Haha that fight was so irritating.
void ocean
"JUST STAND STILL FOR A SECOND"
lilac stag
even worse if tanks were sus
void ocean
tho that very same season outlaw was wonderful in keys
tribal blade
last time I tried outlaw was on that duck council 😄 goddamn downtime was awful
omfg you chose the literal worst downtime boss ever
void ocean
couldnt care less about cds, pack size, rotation...
lilac stag
My other fun boss that tier was the tree with the invisible lines to dodge. with my vision issues that was nightmare fuel
tribal blade
nymue?
that fight was a visual clusterfuck
well not the worst ever, but not great
void ocean
nymue was actually fun as sub
lilac stag
yea
void ocean
altho I loathed dust from the bottom of my heart
alpine wraith
you had to know hown they came from
keen dome
I am very exited to raid on reset. Why can it not be sooner...
thorn stream
guys what u think about rogue for raiding progress wich one is better for raid with this buff and nerfs assa or sub ?
keen dome
Purple is strong
rain stratus
Outlaw outsims both, therefore best
hollow spear
Arms is bis
thorn stream
Outlaw outsims both, therefore best
outlaw always sim bait all rogues know this
hollow spear
Delete your rogue(s)
rain stratus
outlaw always sim bait all rogues know this
No shit
lilac stag
outlaws just need to play better. Don’t see fury complaining about simbait.
upper narwhal
outlaw always sim bait all rogues know this
no cuz it sims highest so it's best
duh
thorn stream
XD
hollow spear
If I had to take a shot for every person who comes in here and asks if sub is better than sin
I'd have been dead two weeks ago
thorn stream
seriously i wanna pick between sub and assa but rly confuse XD
lilac stag
hollow spear
If you haven't played current sub until now
Play sin
You won't learn sub in a day
upper narwhal
Sub definitely has a higher floor to learn, but man is it fun
thorn stream
no i play sub until df season 3
lilac stag
Hahah
hollow spear
"current sub"
thorn stream
play this sub too
lilac stag
Sorry Current Sub
hollow spear
Then play whatever you want
cursive vapor
sub rogues are damn awesome.
thorn stream
wich have best perform for this raid ?
lilac stag
it won’t matter if you can play either effectively
thorn stream
yea i see sim sheet
hollow spear
Even tho early we'll be good imo
lilac stag
sub is going for atrophic and busting and add down if it’s normal sub role
hollow spear
It's just with gear that it might get worse
lilac stag
It will
lilac stag
blame ilvl
hollow spear
5head
Raid logging from day 1 is the play
Raid leaders hate this one simple trick
lilac stag
I’m just waiting for interest in playing sub to tank harder than Tesla’s stock
hollow spear
You're setting quite the bar
lilac stag
assa needs another 2% buff and it’s joever
upper narwhal
I mean Sub still has an abyssmal playrate, I got a 96 parse on a rank 10 kill
keen dome
As much as I want more people playing Sub, I want it to be people who enjoy it and not 'cos they feel they're forced to play it.
void ocean
If I had to take a shot for every person who comes in here and asks if sub is be...
well if it was a gun shot...
lilac stag
I mean Sub still has an abyssmal playrate, I got a 96 parse on a rank 10 kill
That was a 50% parse 2 months ago
keen dome
I mean Sub still has an abyssmal playrate, I got a 96 parse on a rank 10 kill
My Ulgrax Mythic log is 1644 with a 0.1% parse lmao
hollow spear
Sub would have to outperform sin by 20% to make it perform even for someone just fotm chasing
Until they click with the spec
By then they're long gone tho haha
alpine wraith
yea i wonder if we will have an assa time like it was with sub in bfa
thorn stream
blizz nerf sec tech n buff assa for 4% so both at the same level but if u think about 2 last boss have excute phase so i dont know XP