Cup The Goon
#subtlety
sand ore
bleak night
t =/= d
random comet
void ocean
that means cut the grass, right?
compact citrus
Vanish bugs out, can’t cast shadowstrike after vanish.
bleak night
i can accept cut the grass
sand ore
Vanish bugs out, can’t cast shadowstrike after vanish.
from my experience this happens because an auto attack goes off
it's not vanish that's bugging out
compact citrus
from my experience this happens because an auto attack goes off
I have stopattack so that’s not possible
compact citrus
Server lag or smthing?
compact citrus
Nope =/
compact citrus
Ty anyways 🙂
fair kelp
do we send coup outside of SD windows
sand ore
i do
depends on how close i am to stuff
if i have flag in 20s and i have the time left in the fight, i just hold
fair kelp
just trying to learn thanks for the explanation!
do you send SD and Symbols outside of flag
void ocean
do you send SD and Symbols outside of flag
a lot
flag is 1.5 min cd, u get like 2 dances without flag inbetween
fair kelp
but if we want to have 1 + (-40) on the 2nd flag
don't you need to pool
omg my brain
rain stratus
It comes with experience
bleak night
you can use dance twice between your first flag and your second
rain stratus
Just hit stuff and you get the timings fast
native hawk
don't you need to pool
dance gets cdr so it may look a bit scuffed just looking at cooldown timers without hitting things
fathom gazelle
do we ever swap ss to storm in aoe as a builder?
fathom gazelle
and in aoe inside dance we still ss?
rain stratus
In Dance you storm once with a rotten stack to spread FW, and continue normal rotation if there is 7 targets or less.
If 7 Targets or more, your finish with BP instead of Eviscerate
lucid jackal
Both are ss
fair kelp
dance gets cdr so it may look a bit scuffed just looking at cooldown timers with...
thanks i think it's starting to make sense
but still need to try it more
wild hornet
if i have flag in 20s and i have the time left in the fight, i just hold
Whats the point of saving coup for 20s
Instead of yoloing it and sending a few more bs
sand ore
i've never said i'm good at sub brother
rain stratus
You defo never hold for 20sec
void ocean
You defo never hold for 20sec
https://tenor.com/view/amy-santiago-gotcha-title-of-your-sextape-brooklyn-nine-nine-b99-gif-16002077
bleak night
I'LL REROLL AUG
maybe not the best time for that
sand ore
yeah that was the point
void ocean
wait can u even get 3 stacks for Coup in 20sec outside the dance?
whole abyss
in general, are you misplaying more likely, or can it be just really bad gearing if you can't really fit in 2 sets of symbols and dance before your next flag/blades come up?
fwiw im like 600 ilvl
swift tinsel
misplaying
whole abyss
rip
swift tinsel
symbols has a fixed cooldown
fair kelp
in general, are you misplaying more likely, or can it be just really bad gearing...
yea i can get 1 maybe
bleak night
symbols just fits naturally yeah
whole abyss
im on dummy ya
swift tinsel
should be able to fix 2x dance between 1st and second flag tho
fair kelp
should be able to fix 2x dance between 1st and second flag tho
is the 3rd dance part of the first set?
void ocean
i think 4th is just with symbol as well
swift tinsel
2x in cooldowns, 2x outside
whole abyss
ya
whole abyss
its flag symbols dance blade, symbols dance, symbols dance, flag symbols dance blade right?
swift tinsel
swift tinsel
usually missing 2x of sod/dance/sectech in flag is from getting greedy
zinc scaffold
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
quick swan
0 secs on that table assumes 2x dances right
swift tinsel
0 sec is first cd window in opener
quick swan
Ye
fair kelp
omg this is a life saver
swift tinsel
slate lantern
is the 150-160 timing mislabeled? like wouldnt it have to be around 135-145 in order for CB to be up for 180
whole abyss
back to the training dummy until i get that down
assuming it doesnt change for m+
relatively speaking
swift tinsel
is the 150-160 timing mislabeled? like wouldnt it have to be around 135-145 in o...
I think this was made before the 2nd sectech thing became more of a rule
idk not my sheet
slate lantern
yeah i know just realized that when i was looking just now
feel like CB timing is the one thing I'm still not sure on, like i have to be super ready for it to come up on the inbetween CDs to not mess up my burst or delay, like have full CP ready to go as it comes up
swift tinsel
I just don't think about it and use the macro on 2nd
slate lantern
i was surprised to see that fuu only sends CB on cd windows and not in between, and thats what the sim does?
swift tinsel
it's probably just way less mental bandwidth
with as much as people pay attention to between cd windows on top of mechanics
whole abyss
is sub the hardest to master in the game?
swift tinsel
bleak night
you'd have to ask someone whos mastered every spec in the game
bleak night
and even then it would be a subjective opinion
swift tinsel
I don't think sub is all that complicated
jolly pasture
outlaw is harder than sub
swift tinsel
like any spec, once you how know the pieces fit together it makes sense
whole abyss
its not subjective when you need to line so many cds up as you do mechanics
slate lantern
sub feels like a lot when youre first learning but once you get the sequence down and figure out timings, its not that bad
bleak night
its not subjective when you need to line so many cds up as you do mechanics
some people dont find that difficult
some people find high apm more difficult
swift tinsel
people massively overthink sub
paper iron
To me, the hard part of sub is understanding what synergise with what and why do we do what we re doing, other than that gameplay is just wow
swift tinsel
yeah its not intuitive
so you kinda have to dig in
unlike most specs in the game, we don't just send our short cd's when they're up
neon pendant
Hey, kinda new in the rogue scene, sub is looking great out of the 3 spec in s2 I've heard ?
swift tinsel
gotta plan a lil bit
paper iron
Most people have a wrong sight on how charges works in wow
swift tinsel
yeah
slate lantern
Hey, kinda new in the rogue scene, sub is looking great out of the 3 spec in s2 ...
its certainly looking purple
paper iron
they think they gonna triple sod back to back
swift tinsel
as long as you aren't sitting on max for too long you're fine
dude thats so much supercharger lesgo
paper iron
swift tinsel
think of the eternal rupture you could send with that
paper iron
is there still the thing where it s a little minmax to send sod 20s before pull?
keen dome
Get those two free charged finishers
swift tinsel
but 20 should be fine
paper iron
supercharger never expires right?
swift tinsel
nope
but resets to 2
if you have more than that
so you can't mega-stack it before a pull
paper iron
i remember spamming rtb at some points 
steel zinc
Hey, kinda new in the rogue scene, sub is looking great out of the 3 spec in s2 ...
You need to know the rules od sub rogue and then just practice. For this spec it all comes down to experience
neon pendant
Wowhead guide is a good place to learn ?
keen dome
Wowhead guide is a good place to learn ?
All of the guides are very good resources, yep
whole abyss
since you're supposed to hit 2x symbols and dance within flag and blades opener, you're supposed to send the second dance as soon as the first one is gone, but with the second symbols, do you send it pandemic with less than 3s left?
keen dome
!guides
steel zinc
Wowhead guide is a good place to learn ?
Yes
swift tinsel
since you're supposed to hit 2x symbols and dance within flag and blades opener,...
send so it supercharges sectech
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
whole abyss
ty NyanMoroes
raw wadi
whats the earlierst time possible to recast symbols of death (pandemic whise)?
around 3 seconds?
hollow spear
3 seconds
raw wadi
not 3.3?
whole abyss
does that time table with CDs assume lust and everything else? or can you do all of that dry?
hollow spear
But it's more important to get your supercharge stacks off during your blades/transmitter window
hollow spear
does that time table with CDs assume lust and everything else? or can you do all...
Lust is less important than shammy buff tbh
You're going to notice not having shaman buff on dummy
viscid urchin
do i need to let to coup de grace animation finish before doing other stuff?
hollow spear
No
whole abyss
Lust is less important than shammy buff tbh
so should you be able to do that all solo without any buffs on the dummy or no
paper iron
i rememeber in SL, not having a windfury felt so baaaaaaaaaaaad
viscid urchin
ok ty
paper iron
hollow spear
so should you be able to do that all solo without any buffs on the dummy or no
You should, but it's tight
whole abyss
gotcha, ty!
raw wadi
legit thought he was talking to himself for a second
I thought that too btw 😄
ChatGPT should create a new picture for me
whole abyss
so this ss from method's guide is just plain wrong?
tranquil garden
No it looks pretty right to me. It's just going to depend on how much cooldown reduction you get
And at some point you'll have an extra symbols
lilac stag
so this ss from method's guide is just plain wrong?
What do you think is wrong?
swift tinsel
yeah idk what could be wrong about that lol
raw wadi
legit thought he was talking to himself for a second
Better now?
whole abyss
im struggling big time to make the time table from hachadino to work solo on a dummy, the method screenshot seems to be a lot easier
tranquil garden
Keep in mind that sky fury will make life a lot easier
swift tinsel
the timings aren't exact, just focus more on the number of times you're casting them
swift tinsel
because like Surgo said cooldown reduction isn't the same at all times
hollow spear
I usually use the symbols + sectec after the 1.30 flag window
Instead of trying to squeeze
tepid trellis
so this ss from method's guide is just plain wrong?
damn who made that
swift tinsel
looks racoonish to me
hollow spear
Wouldn't know him
tepid trellis
whole abyss
really at the end of the day all you need to do is maximize cd usage while ensuring you have 2x symbols and dance for big coolies
hollow spear
Pretty much
You'll eventually get the hang of when you can greed and when you cannot
Bad news are that this differs from encounter to encounter
Based on boss uptime and amount of adds
tranquil garden
It's nice to be flexible and be able to dump your burst at different times. Really a good feeling that I didn't have from other specs
viscid urchin
i remember being sub in SL, and the prio targets in Necrotic wake being super juicy, sub was so fun
serene owl
outside of SD would you do black powder in aoe rather eviscerate even with nimble flurry or is it still better (7 or less)
tepid trellis
its pretty much neutral to either proc Flawless and do eviscerates or just do storm + BP
sour girder
Did anyone play subtlety on tww s1??? Can you link me your stats?
bleak night
Did anyone play subtlety on tww s1??? Can you link me your stats?
i parsed an 11 on heroic dausegne does that work
lilac stag
it just open up any log on wcl to “link stats”
serene owl
outside of SD its all bleghh anyway XD
swift tinsel
I actually alt-tab outside dance
serene owl
ahahaaha
boils my blood pally players getting wings 30 secs padding crazy dps whilst we snooze outside dance and sweat inside it
lilac stag
Play Ret then?
lilac stag
The ebb and flow of sub is what makes it different and enjoyable.
bleak night
me when im spamming keys constantly anyway so its all the same
bleak night
bleak night
if button is glowing press it
serene owl
sub is deffo chill but ret is just brain power 0 at least in sub you gotta get used to using CDS to be fair
swift tinsel
I can see why its so popular
crystal kraken
if SecTec comes off CD outside of Flag window, what the remaining time on flag that i should hold it
swift tinsel
if SecTec comes off CD outside of Flag window, what the remaining time on flag t...
20sec
hollow spear
That's cutting it close haha
swift tinsel
nah
fair kelp
does anyone know the flag rotation:
flag > evis > Symbols + SD > Sectec the way or:
Symbols > flag > sec tec
swift tinsel
never have problems
serene owl
is ST always done in SD? lets say if its off cooldown and dance quite few seconds left
crystal kraken
assuming full uptime, the ST rotation between CD's should be CD's > 2dance/SoD > CD's > 1dance/SoD > Repeat right?
lilac stag
swift tinsel
is ST always done in SD? lets say if its off cooldown and dance quite few second...
sometimes you send sectech without dance but with symbols
rare occasions you send sectech with neither
serene owl
ahhh symbols for the damage increase i kept holding symbols only for shadow dance
thank you!
serene owl
a lot of the time i tend to just get the CD less through SD for sectech and try get one in there but yeah sometimes the timing goes bad and sectech happens outside of SD so was wondering if thats ever viable
lucid jackal
ret feels like you just...do stuff with no planning
Exactly!
swift tinsel
its such a departure from sub I can't adjust lol
slate lantern
how am i supposed to feel superior to others if I dont play the hard unpopular spec??
bleak night
slate lantern
thats what i base my entire identity around!!
lucid jackal
Sub is easy though?
distant plinth
What's the benefit of SB after sectech during the flag phase here?
lucid jackal
Before this patch, sectec didn't benefit at all from blades
Now the clones do so
You sectec, it does the hit, you blades, and then the clones do damage boosted by blades
Just gives u more uptime of the valuable part of blades
distant plinth
Nice. Thanks!
serene owl
oh damn ive been doing flag and blades together as a macro then sectech
lucid jackal
Booooo
lilac stag
That’s our burst sequence in pretty raccoon style pictures.
lucid jackal
Losing 2+ global there
lilac stag
Fuu has a similar one on wowhead
ivory sorrel
Sorry im beginning so im tryign to understand
the buffs
so dance and symbols together all the time
lucid jackal
Nop
lilac stag
No
ivory sorrel
oh no ?
swift tinsel
most of the time but not all the time
lucid jackal
!cooldowns
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
lucid jackal
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
ivory sorrel
sorry not sure if i am reading it right
lilac stag
They’re used around the same time, not at the same time.
lucid jackal
This one
serene owl
man sub is acc hard if youre new i aint evne gon lie LOL
lucid jackal
Sub is easy if u don't overthink it
swift tinsel
Sub is easy if u don't overthink it
this is 100% people's biggest hurdle
ivory sorrel
I am the biggest overthinker so i feel you lol
serene owl
so no flag and shadow blades together but instead flag sech tech then blades?
ivory sorrel
yeah its rough but i find it the coolest so im willing to learn
swift tinsel
it seems complicated so people make it more complicated
swift tinsel
when in reality there's just a couple of rules to learn
ivory sorrel
yeah i guess im trying to understand the core rules
lilac stag
lucid jackal
swift tinsel
lol that gif should trigger whenever anyone asks about macros
serene owl
not even a cheeky dance symbols macro 😦
lilac stag
The bottom of the picture legit shows you the damn cast sequence
lucid jackal
lol that gif should trigger whenever anyone asks about macros
"blades flag macro? jail. Shadow dance symbols macro? Jail. Even a cold blood sectec macro? Jail."
swift tinsel
a dance+symbols macro would scuff your opener
serene owl
"blades flag macro? jail. Shadow dance symbols macro? Jail. Even a cold blood se...
naaa i feel violated because thats everything i have LOL
alright removing them now
molten citrus
Straight to jail
tepid trellis
Jail time
bleak night
naaa i feel violated because thats everything i have LOL
you can keep the cold blood sectec macro just make sure you also have sectec bound by itself lol
ivory sorrel
So dance - symbols - flag/blades - sec tech
and then evis evis evis
shadowstrike in between
those evis's
swift tinsel
you don't want to cast flag and blades together
because they want you to do the opposite thing next
flag wants you to finish
blades wants you to build
and they have diff durations
lucid jackal
Here's how u learn sub okay
- Learn the full cooldown sequence properly
- learn that symbols goes with every secret technique, but not every dance goes with symbols of death
- learn that you hold symbols at 25-30 seconds left on flag/blades
This is the entire spec
Not even cap
ivory sorrel
I follow that and il lbe golden
swift tinsel
that's literally like 99% of the core of the spec
ivory sorrel
I'd need like actual critique
serene owl
im gonna try and learn wowhead page by heart or something
swift tinsel
outside of the step-by-step list of everything you cast from opener to end of cd window, those bullet points cover what you need
lucid jackal
To no fault of fuu, I think part of the formatting of wowhead overcomplicates things
lilac stag
For the people in the back who can’t see
lucid jackal
It's hard to articulate thru the format that's expected on wowhead rotationally
swift tinsel
wowhead is getting too fancy with the checkbox conditions
lucid jackal
Burst sequence is right on the page tho lmfaooo
ivory sorrel
I see that but as someone who is just atarting out
swift tinsel
something it doesn't cover though is dancing right after first ends and then waiting to symbols until sectech is <10
ivory sorrel
im gonna interpret that as clicking symbols twice, dance twice, then blades and flag in a quick sequence
swift tinsel
to the point where a ! had to be added for it
lucid jackal
It's hard to articulate everything in a guide
swift tinsel
sub flowchart time
flint spire
Does anyone have a WA just for SnD ? I don't want a full wa pack and I'm not smart enough just to take out SnD
lucid jackal
Does anyone have a WA just for SnD ? I don't want a full wa pack and I'm not sma...
You should learn how to
half comet
how many dances do you get on pure ST between cds
lucid jackal
how many dances do you get on pure ST between cds
2 usually without aoe
lucid jackal
On pure 1 target, 2
flint spire
Alright I'll start googling thanks
swift tinsel
should have a symbols for each of those dances
serene owl
so what im doing is stealth shadow strike evis for slice and dice buff shruiken rupture shuriken rupture on all mobs vanish shadow strike flag rupture on MT blades symbols shadowstrike secret tech and then just shadow evis is my rotation cooked LOL
swift tinsel
think less about dance between cds and more about sectech
lucid jackal
Ur overthinking the rupture thing
swift tinsel
because that's your condition for sending anything
serene owl
think less about dance between cds and more about sectech
ohhh i base everything on dance
that makes so much more sense
swift tinsel
"Do I have symbols and/or dance for this sectech?"
lucid jackal
Everything should be based around symbols
ivory sorrel
so sec tech should be the first thing out afer that first shadow strike ?
lucid jackal
You sectec with symbols only. You shadow dance if you have it
lucid jackal
so sec tech should be the first thing out afer that first shadow strike ?
Your first finisher in dance should be sectec yes
Unless you have coup ready
serene owl
Ur overthinking the rupture thing
in what sense, dont need to prio rupture that much?
lucid jackal
in what sense, dont need to prio rupture that much?
Correct
Especially with gear, this specs burst damage is absurd. You spending 10 seconds to spread ruptures is a waste of time
night rampart
Unless you have coup ready
we dont sectech before coup to get the finisher dmg increase?
weary saffron
rupture as things gather & after cds
twilit phoenix
Sub rupture does more than sin rupture 
ivory sorrel
I need to game w/ a rogue to see how they're doing it / watch
lucid jackal
we dont sectech before coup to get the finisher dmg increase?
No because sectec gives you stacks of coup
swift tinsel
sectech before coup loses a guaranteed UB proc
lilac stag
Sub rupture does more than sin rupture <:kekw:610125925413289985>
Not anymore
lucid jackal
So if u sectec with max stacks you are losing stacks
twilit phoenix
ivory sorrel
Any streamers to tune into ?
twilit phoenix
Not anymore
After last round of sin buffs?
ivory sorrel
or like a pvp community/guild
night rampart
So if u sectec with max stacks you are losing stacks
ill trust you did the math on that
lucid jackal
Of course
obtuse phoenix
if you send symbols with every sectec, do we avoid macroing them together because the timing can be different on different uses of sectec?
twilit phoenix
Guy might stream his mythic sales
lucid jackal
if you send symbols with every sectec, do we avoid macroing them together becaus...
U avoid the macro because in flag/blades we don't use them together
lucid jackal
Guy might stream his mythic sales
Everything most go sale!
I will stream prog tho
Better computer
It's time
lucid jackal
I think the 7800 x3d?
molten citrus
or like a pvp community/guild
pvp rotations are different. nahj streams sub pvp
lucid jackal
Wow doesn't lag anymore it's op
ivory sorrel
pvp rotations are different. nahj streams sub pvp
oh im tripping, was this about pve
well i was intending to do both anyways
ivory sorrel
So i still learned 😮
molten citrus
pog
lucid jackal
serene owl
so would i basically use flag and blades separate as i build max combo points then flag for secret tech use then blades to build by combo points back up
lucid jackal
No brother
serene owl
hahaha im cooked
distant plinth
In-between cds, do you symbol only when sectech is up ? Or when it's <10s remaining (like the flag rotation)
night rampart
lucid jackal
You flag
Finisher
Shadow dance symbols shadowstrike
Sectec > blades
And then u play the spec
lucid jackal
In-between cds, do you symbol only when sectech is up ? Or when it's <10s remain...
10s
twilit phoenix
<a:GAWKGAWK:822679404081053756>
serene owl
oh i got it shadowstrike flag then evis then shadowstrike blades cold blood sechtech etc
obivously symbols and dance in the 2nd shadowstrike
lilac stag
Any streamers to tune into ?
Stealthi streams prog and they’re usually top 30 range of guilds.
Eleem has a YT channel up with basics of bursting
night rampart
<:Cumgers:909176094333223013>
sir, youre leaking
idle aurora
Man if Sub had grappling hook it would be the perfect class lol
full frost
Stealthi streams prog and they’re usually top 30 range of guilds.
Eleem has a ...
What’s the link to YT?
idle aurora
I know grappling hook is just favorite ability in game
twilit phoenix
Ye hook and step are both dope in diff situations
lilac stag
What’s the link to YT?
Just search his name and wow rogue
night rampart
we aren't really hurting for movement
wym movement? i just stick it, mechanics are for losers
near obsidian
lower chance to dc from mouseover step xdd
swift tinsel
does hook still brick if there's a pebble in the way
night rampart
yea
olive horizon
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
what a flex
night rampart
working as intended
lucid jackal
oh i got it shadowstrike flag then evis then shadowstrike blades cold blood sech...
Still no
U cb the 2nd sectec
keen steppe
Stealthi streams prog and they’re usually top 30 range of guilds.
Eleem has a ...
Whats the name of his yt D:
keen steppe
Thank you
swift tinsel
if you get a 2nd wow account with a free trial, shaman learn skyfury at 16
do with that info what you will
lilac stag
Lazy ass bitches 
swift tinsel
I'm gonna park it at dummies and sell the buff lol
bleak night
wait
drifting fable
what targets do we storm?
bleak night
i thought free trail was 10 for some reason
swift tinsel
20
swift tinsel
just can't join parties
bleak night
finally that old account i used for raf because i had no friends will come in handy again
swift tinsel
that's what I'm using lol
bleak night
its time
acoustic lodge
dang Bel was shammy
rotund obsidian
!wa
wicked joltBOT
kindred pond
hi wowhead guide says to ideally use sectech as your first finisher in shadow dance, is it not worth to build dance macabre first anymore?
rotund obsidian
Hi, is there a better way to track cp refunds aside from relying on the sound weakaura? Thanks
lucid jackal
what targets do we storm?
2 or more targets outside dance
7 or more to apply fw once in aoe in dance
rotund obsidian
Thanks!
drifting fable
2 or more targets outside dance
7 or more to apply fw once in aoe in dance
ya got it
quaint lodge
I cannot figure out how to take tornado in my tree for mythic plus
am I dropping replicating shadows?
tepid trellis
no
quaint lodge
oh veiltouched
oh btw stealthi in case ur still here
I was reading ur guide last night
on method i think
it says to use sectec while paying attention to dm stacks
is this just a general rule for m+ or do we actually pay attention to this
valid marsh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUltGUGtuVw
anyone have a shadow techniques number tracker like this ?? i like that it shows his number!
lilac stag
I cannot figure out how to take tornado in my tree for mythic plus
You’re not taking it for m+
spark tusk
anyone have a shadow techniques number tracker like this ?? i like that it shows...
It’s a basic buff with a stack counter.
lilac stag
It’s only good for trying to get back CDR out of dance and it’s a worse option than TFD
spark tusk
!wa Don’t know how eleem’s looks. I know my pack has one with an icon and number and glows green during sod if you will refund
wicked joltBOT
bleak night
ye i definitely recommend LE's pack
although
flag is still red on the wa
so 0/10
swift tinsel
I'm gonna change my flag icon to sepsis
spark tusk
It’s not red is it?
ebon tiger
I thought ST was getting properly buffed by blades now or am I crazy? Based on the guides I guess we're still delaying blades until after the first ST
bleak night
maybe i need to update
spark tusk
My pack uses the new icon
lilac stag
My pack uses the new icon
Unfortunately.
spark tusk
Unfortunately.
Yeah yeah. I prefer the new flag icon
bleak night
is a bit much
spark tusk
And prefer the old ER icon
valid marsh
!wa Don’t know how eleem’s looks. I know my pack has one with an icon and number...
i really like that tracker you have! is there a way for me to just steal that part?
lilac stag
The icon that looks like it’s perma CD
bleak night
old er icon was better yea
new icon is too orange
reminds me of outlaw
and i hate being reminded of outlaw
spark tusk
i really like that tracker you have! is there a way for me to just steal that pa...
I don’t remember if I broke it apart. I have a whole collection set of misc one offs, I’ll ping you in assa and you can look there if I made a standalone.
If not, you would just have to download the pack then take it out then delete the rest of the pack
twilit phoenix
I miss old er so much
twilit phoenix
Wish they just let you choose
bleak night
the fact that they went through the trouble of fixing er to make it work with deathstalker mark
and make it actually kind of fun
then just fucking delete it anyway
swift tinsel
but we have new coup swish
spark tusk
We didn’t for a while
swift tinsel
its not the same, I know
spark tusk
But yes now that we do it’s better but not the same
swift tinsel
I just don't miss getting trolled with old ShT during the game
spark tusk
I miss sepsis too
swift tinsel
I'm legit changing my flag icon to sepsis
good idea…
swift tinsel
once I finish leveling this rat shaman for a pocket skyfury buff lol
spark tusk
Fae dust blue twirl was great
lilac stag
Cool for giga sectechs, but I miss the ol minigame
Tell me you never played sub without telling me.
bleak night
wtf i got baited
tranquil garden
<:monkahmm:585734084571955211> good idea…
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the amazing aura package. Your Ux design skills are incredible.
bleak night
i updated and its still red @spark tusk why do dis to me
swift tinsel
lol owned
twilit phoenix
Tell me you never played sub without telling me.
Didn’t play sub when it had old er, ol was too much fun
bleak night
sub with random cps trying to hit er does sound like ass
but it was fun for outlaw in shadowlands
and for a brief moment as sin with deathstalker
twilit phoenix
Ya the kir er chains were orgasmic
spark tusk
i updated and its still red <@228712200385200130> why do dis to me
To be fair I said “I thought” not I was sure I don’t remember I’m out of the house rn
bleak night
spark tusk
But I really remember it being the silver…
bleak night
spark tusk
Hey, just wanted to say thanks for the amazing aura package. Your Ux design skil...
Thanks appreciate it, Ux isn’t really my strong suite but I try to at least think a little about it
bleak night
it is a fantastic pack though, ive genuinely been considering learning more about weakauras just so i can make something similar for other classes i play lmao
a low quality temu version of it anyway
swift tinsel
learning to set up conditions will help your understanding of a spec
hazy breach
I personally really dislike glows in general and most packs are filled with them 
swift tinsel
I usually go with a pixel glow if I'm gonna use any bc I don't want it to be too distracting
and I try to use them sparingly unless its something that needs my attention
lilac stag
Thanks appreciate it, Ux isn’t really my strong suite but I try to at least thin...
Dis why you have designer friends. 🤓
swift tinsel
I'll resort to icon color changes for very specific but very important things
swift tinsel
I actually might switch SoD buff to be a circular texture around the icon and just have the icon show cooldown
spark tusk
I actually might switch SoD buff to be a circular texture around the icon and ju...
Yeah I haven’t experimented too much with them but they’re cool and I want to use them more
swift tinsel
I have hot hands as a circular texture around lava lash and it's pretty neat
that's the only one I've experimented with so far but I really like the idea of having a visual of the buff while also being able to see the cooldown of the ability if it has those kinds of interactions
bleak night
I have hot hands as a circular texture around lava lash and it's pretty neat
that sounds pretty cool, do you happen to have a screenshot of it?
swift tinsel
I can log over and grab one quick
its still pretty rough because I haven't dug into them very much yet but it does exactly what I'd like it to
fathom gazelle
do we have any dslice sims after nerfs?
swift tinsel
but it essentially creates a border cooldown swipe
so you can see the duration of Hot Hand directly on the Lava Lash icon without obstructing the Lava Lash cooldown
bleak night
oh yeah i could see that being really nice for abilities that work similar to that
swift tinsel
idk if you can add text yet
but I wanna integrate them into my rogue UI
can get really hand-holdy and add a circular texture for flag around sod and dance but I don't want to lol
stray oyster
What are people using ot track coup de grace and fazed?
zealous blade
!wa
wicked joltBOT
tranquil garden
Thanks appreciate it, Ux isn’t really my strong suite but I try to at least thin...
hey don't sell yourself short, the part where the stuff that's not useful disappears (like when the smaller stuff like sprint comes off cooldown) is really great!
spare quiver
bro what the fuck i should do when i finish the opener
swift tinsel
follow the priority list of what to do outside of dance
until stuff comes back up
then do stuff
bleak night
grab a cup of tea
slate lantern
But not thistle tea cause that shits WACK
twilit phoenix
unironically thistle tea irl tastes really good
sand ore
diet dr. pepper glyph when
bleak night
me never using thistle tea bc im a coffee person
also apparently they updated the graphics on lightning bolt for shaman
but didnt update chain lighting?
why lmao
come on blozard
grave ingot
Hi! Do you guys recommend any video guide for Sub Rogue in 11.1?
spark tusk
hey don't sell yourself short, the part where the stuff that's not useful disapp...
Appreciate the words. I know what I'm good at and confident there, and defer to others where I don't know as much. @lilac stag helped me out with some of the visuals to make them crisper and easier to read.
lilac stag
lilac stag
Appreciate the words. I know what I'm good at and confident there, and defer to ...
so… how difficult would it be to assign row icon counts based on spec? 
lilac stag
mmhm
spark tusk
Each spec's dynamic group has a custom grow
So, change that for the dynamic group, I think I parameterized it at the top
spark tusk
yeah mess around with those
I haven't tried messing around with them too much tbh
I put them in there to be modular but didn't extensively test them out
Region cap is the icon number
lilac stag
Oh that’s right. Yours are per spec. My brain was thinking it was all rogue CDs in a group
lilac stag
My warrior ones were all overlapping and had that on the brain
spark tusk
I gave whispyr my warrior pack I don't remember if I linked it to you, just my personal pack, not really published or polished but it uses my same style template
It has some rough edges because I cba it's just a personal pack for my alt
placid tendon
this macro stopped putting a marker on the target for me this week, any idea why?
whole abyss
Guide says 2 x authority of the depths but I see players using authority of radiant power, which is bis?
tranquil garden
do we have a trinkets spread of updated sims?
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
valid marsh
i thought this wasnt up to date anymore
tranquil garden
the trinket sim is from 6 days ago
barren sand
Looking at sims, it seems like they don't use ST in the roughly 30 secs leading up to a flag. Is stop using ST in that period probably a decent rule of thumb?
tranquil garden
Guide says 2 x authority of the depths but I see players using authority of radi...
It can be the case, and I'm not sure how true this is for subtlety, that radiant power functions somewhat better in a shorter fight AOE situation. Aka mplus trash.
Personally, I like running depths regardless for the boss fights.
whole abyss
does it fall behind pure ST to depts?
tranquil garden
Sim to be sure but I'm pretty sure yes
placid tendon
yes
tranquil garden
Honestly, it's nice to have options
placid tendon
Looking at sims, it seems like they don't use ST in the roughly 30 secs leading ...
if you use secret tech in that window, you likely wont get it up in time for your cds
jaunty heath
i send sectech as first global in dance or wait until i have 3 danse stacks?
placid tendon
send it
tepid trellis
you send it first finisher, unless you have 4 stacks of unseen blade + fazed on your target, then you send coup first then sectech
thick badger
!wa
wicked joltBOT
jaunty heath
can anyone tell me what these numbers mean in Kieron's UI?
slate lantern
can anyone tell me what these numbers mean in Kieron's UI?
How many of those spells you'll have back for your next cd window
So you'll see the number over SD go up as you use your spells and reduce the cd
jaunty heath
what is the optimal numbers?
i want 2 right?
so if i have less than that is it bad or i just need to get more CDR using CP
slate lantern
SoD you want 2, I think you can have 1.5 for SD cause by the time you dance for the second time you'll have reduced the cooldown enougj
Not 100% on that SD number tho, most people say you want 1 charge and <40s on the second before your cd window
lilac stag
It can be the case, and I'm not sure how true this is for subtlety, that radiant...
Depths is better in ST. Radiant seems to have a tendency to go off when not in CDs
just high roll your radiant procs.
spark tusk
can anyone tell me what these numbers mean in Kieron's UI?
🤓 That's not Kieron's 😛
valid ocean
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
spark tusk
i updated and its still red <@228712200385200130> why do dis to me
well I'll be damned you are right it is red, looks like I'm manually overriding the icon too lol. You can remove that on the display tab
bleak night
well I'll be damned you are right it is red, looks like I'm manually overriding ...
Yeah I figured it out; I felt kinda bad about mentioning it after because I could’ve just taken the 5 seconds to fix it myself
spark tusk
Nah all good, I genuinely thought I remembered the silver on the bar but I guess I just forgot
bleak night
(Also I didn’t want to admit I sat there for a week being bothered by it and never thought to just look up how to change it lmao)
spark tusk
lilac stag
well I'll be damned you are right it is red, looks like I'm manually overriding ...
I was wondering if you forgot we talked about the override icon still being there when it first changed. I was just being patient since the red is the proper one.
spark tusk
NAh the proper icon is 
lilac stag
just change it to vendetta at that point.
swift tinsel
did someone say Sepsis
I actually kinda like it even just for the fact that its way easier to tell when its desaturated vs current flag icon
also I'm trying very hard not to add circular textures to sod, dance, flag and blades
swift tinsel
I think I only realllllly care enough about doing it for sod
jaunty heath
🤓 That's not Kieron's 😛
im so sorry i get them mixed up i have all of them
small juniper
np
swift tinsel
with skyfury I've been able to sneak a sod/sectech in right after 2nd flag and it hasn't messed anything up yet, gonna keep playing around with it
kinda have to pull a dance with vanish but its kinda working
remote blaze
!guide
pearl swan
is there a way to just get the predicted dance/symbols on their own?
without it being tied to flag
no idea if possible
spark tusk
I mean they're inherently based on flag's cd
do you just mean get the texts based on flag, but no flag icon?
pearl swan
yea
so i just c the dance n symbols
i had no idea u could make a predicted cd weakaura like this
kinda sick
spark tusk
well it's all custom so you can do basically anything if you can write it out
let me see
I think you can convert the aura to an empty region but I'm not sure, going to test it
ah yeah that works
spark tusk
is there a way to just get the predicted dance/symbols on their own?
Right click on the aura in the aura list, then do "Convert to -> Empty Base Region"
Then on the display tab, delete anything you don't want. doing the above will remove the icon but the border, text, and glows will still be there. Delete all except the symbols and dance text objects
pearl swan
ur a freak
last question
cause these r all spread over the aura
the text
n icons
how do i resize this?
i cant find a scale
if i change position and size settings
it moves the empty base region setting
tribal blade
does anyone know if evasion works on the coins on bandit
to avoid being hit by them
and if you immune the stun it immunes the dmg too
tribal blade
U mean 1 armed bandit?
yeah yeah
lucid jackal
Probably not
lucid jackal
The cheese to get the buff is just dodge the mechanic 
tribal blade
haha true
lilac stag
how do i resize this?
Likely hard set in the custom code
tepid trellis
cant wait for NA to beta test it for us
lilac stag
Yeah… can’t wait to beta test…
tribal blade
i'm in the process of fixing my sleep
tepid trellis
thats my goal for today
tribal blade
but i keep staying up too late
tepid trellis
so now im doing lost ark dailies at 5:30 in the morning
lilac stag
thats my goal for today
What day are you actually raiding?
tepid trellis
wednesday/thursday
edgy zenith
isn't it crazy void elf racial is still bugged?
tepid trellis
doing HC wednesday, into mythic on Thursday
lilac stag
isn't it crazy void elf racial is still bugged?
I think they just coded it as a dmg amp now. The buff should show up
No longer separate dmg
lilac stag
Look at your buffs when it procs
edgy zenith
yeah, the buff is proccing
I just assumed it was bugged sincen o damage event
weird that they would change it
lilac stag
And what does the buff say?
edgy zenith
33.7% uptime? 14 procs?
lilac stag
No. The actually tooltip
lilac stag
I’m asking you what it says
edgy zenith
lilac stag
Not what you think it says on the buff
lilac stag
Your buff bar. Not the ability or details
edgy zenith
oh, idfk im not playing rn
warped ferry
There a reason you flagellation before shadowblades and blast, because I currently just have them macro’d together.
tepid trellis
yeh, ones 24 sec long other is 16
so you wanna have it cover both dances where you do all of your dmg
not before
flag does 0 dmg by itself
all the power is in the mastery buff it gives
warped ferry
Ahh I see, noted. Trying out sub this season and not fully sure of the intricacies of the spec.
lilac stag
!guide
lilac stag
Pick one. All good.
tepid trellis
you basically just press blades when you cast your first Sectech
need people to wake up in my house so i can go shower
its waaaay to hot in my room
edgy zenith
trinket sim on the spreadsheet is using the old 1 point in finality, drop the rotten build
in case it matters or anyone cares
molten citrus
I think most of the stuff has to be redone anyway
spark tusk
how do i resize this?
Unfortunately they're texts, so they are only controlled like other text elements
you'd go into those text elements
you can change the font size which will scale them up
or change x/y offsets there to move them
You could also duplicate the aura out into separate auras for each icon and readjust the displays to only display the respective spell and text
wouldn't be that hard to do but wouldn't be trivial either
ornate heron
how come sometimes when you secret tech or evis, you instantly get all your combo points back?
is there a way to know when that will happen ?
spark tusk
how come sometimes when you secret tech or evis, you instantly get all your comb...
Shadowcraft
it's a talent in the bottom row
ornate heron
ooooohhh i see it now
spark tusk
It happens when your shadow techniques buff has more than 7 stacks, you have SoD up, and you use a finisher
so if you want to know when that will happen, look for that, I have my WA pack glow my ShT tracker when at or above 7 when SoD is up
pretty straightforward WA to make
ornate heron
thank you thank you
would yo mind sending me just the shadowcraft portion of your WA?
im looking at WAGO and im not finding exactly what youre talking about
spark tusk
uh one sec
spark tusk
https://wago.io/4rjRXfg3X - I can add screenshots later
Now in the collection, that's 3 people today asking for a standalone
spark tusk
!wa
wicked joltBOT
glass jasper
Not more complicated than just "!wa" 😄
@spark tusk Tried your WA pack, I like it. It does however remove combo-points from target which I like to have also. Do you know what in the pack does that?
bleak night
Hmm
tepid trellis
think you tagged the wrong person
pearl swan
should u alweays coup b4 sec tech if fazed is up?
glass jasper
Thanks!
glass jasper
should u alweays coup b4 sec tech if fazed is up?
Think so but sounds like a minor optimization?
Or maybe not, coup reduces sectec cd by quite alot
May be incorrect
Sims seem to use sectec before coup, so I am going to assume that is the correct way
pearl swan
ye cause if u wna get ur
symbols sectech with no dance
clean
u need to press after
:3
playing deathstalker all season
ruined my muscle memory
glass jasper
playing deathstalker all season
Yea same, I actually never even touched trickster until last week
Biggest trickster perk will be 1h tricks on tank brann in delves 😄
Solo delves should be smooth
tepid trellis
ye cause if u wna get ur
consuming coup first makes sectech hit 12% harder
rocky ocean
I often get that situation when I finish pressing sectech and coup ready pops up
like 0.00000001 secs after
glass jasper
consuming coup first makes sectech hit 12% harder
So robot is incorrect then?
tepid trellis
cuz sectech gives you 2 stacks of unseen
tepid trellis
So robot is incorrect then?
tbh i dont think either is right or wrong, one is safer than the other
but you should get your 2nd sectech in cds even if you dont fire it first finisher in first dance
so it makes no sense to not consume coup if up first
this way you make sectech do 12% more dmg and you dont waste any unseen blade stacks
glass jasper
Yea sounds like the correct play
Sims probably just like to fire sectec first if CD conditions are met
Without accounting for coup
half comet
should I just macro sec tec to blades
is there ever a time thatsb ad
while having a seperate sec tec obvi
glass jasper
As we just talked about, if you have coup up
You want to coup first global in blades
Well we talked about dance, but i would say it applies to blades also
spark tusk
while having a seperate sec tec obvi
You can macro as many combos together as you want as long as you can access the buttons separately, like you say
glass jasper
Actually it seems that we did not even talk about dance really, I just had that part of the conversation with myself in my head it seems 😄
My conclusion after short discussion here and solo convo in head and quick analysis of robot, please correct if wrong:
Coup first global in CDs if up, although hold symbols to supercharge SecTec.
So = CDs (-symbols) > Coup > symbols > sectec
(and ofc shadowstrike before sectec if needed for combopoints)
spark tusk
Supercharger is next 2 finishers, either way you're boosting sectec no?
wild hornet
maybe not the best time for that
Doomers
glass jasper
Yes but, isnt it supercharging only one CP for the second ability? Or why do i think that?
glass jasper
Strange
That i would think that
Then yes, symbols with CDs
No idea why I have thought that all this time
Thanks for teaching me stuff
rain stratus
Do you actually use Storm for FW debuff in dances between CD's on AoE on +7 targets? Or just regular SS BP spam?
tepid trellis
yeh
crystal kraken
been a long time since playing sub, is having a 1hander in offhand equal to dagger/better?
rain stratus
You want 2 daggers
tepid trellis
been a long time since playing sub, is having a 1hander in offhand equal to dagg...
always 2 daggers, never ever equip anything else
wild hornet
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
rain stratus
I guess we still consume Coup stacks even in AoE right
tepid trellis
yes
jolly pasture
Anyone have the cd table where cb is used on 2nd sectec?
dry plank
Table?
spark tusk
{}
molten citrus
Anyone have the cd table where cb is used on 2nd sectec?
rain stratus
yes
Last question I swear 😄
On less than 7 targets, do we actively send backstab to get Flawless Form back up outside of dance, or just BP instead until Dancing?
tepid trellis
its neutral
can do either
backstab for FF and use Eviscerate or you can do storm + bp until dance is rdy
rain stratus
I see! Whats the minimum amount of targets for BP to makes sense in that scenario?
tepid trellis
2
rain stratus
Oh
rain stratus
Yea figured, thanks a lot.
stone robin
is there a boss in the new tier where we would delay some CD´s?
rain stratus
Maybe first depending on your guilds damage
jolly pasture
Is it ever worth to hold coup for dance without cds?
tepid trellis
nah just rip it
distant plinth
Hey chaps, sorry for the potential stupid question but during the flag burst second SD, you say we cast SD and hold symbols for 1/2s until sectetch is <10s. What's the reason we can't delay SD there as well and use it simultaneously with symbols?
hazy breach
Because your blades, trinket and racial is up and will be wasted on backstabs and non-dance eviscerates
So you lose 2 seconds of dance during your absolute peak of damage, in exchange for nothing
haughty mural
Did circlet change affect us ?
remote shuttle
Can't find the new siren ring gems suggestion in pins, is it ok to play 3x stat gems?
tepid trellis
what is sub trick without anything
new rings from next tier
tepid trellis
to check that stuff btw you can open the html report and click "subtlety trick" and scroll down to gear
mighty citrus
sec
tepid trellis
swift crest
Fish for the big hit - Secret Technique is always used during Shadow Dance, ideally as first finishing move. Cold Blood can be put in a macro with Secret Technique for comfort with the slight disadvantage of not being able to delay Cold Blood for your second Secret Technique cast during Shadow Blades (small dps loss).
whats the % loss
crystal kraken
if you crit natty 0%
hollow spear
1%
swift crest
maybe worth doing during the key farming next week
for me learning idk
wouldnt want that 1% loss in raid
hollow spear
M+ is less strict anyways
swift crest
yea
hollow spear
But not bad to make it a habit
If you send macros in m+, odds are that your brain will do it in raid
swift crest
ill give the macro a little go now cos i think ur right
would be better to learn the proper way during the key farms
this fuu wowhead guide is epic
jolly pasture
If keys are hard enough. In low keys chances are pack is dead by the time you get to 2nd dance
rain stratus
Most keys are blastable until 10's if you currently have mythic gear
mighty citrus
nvm iam just dumb 😉
steel zinc
ill be starting with 637 ilvl
its w/e
haughty mural
as per the pin
jesus - im sorry
didnt see in the pin last time i checked it
my bad
hexed dagger
heyo whats the thinking on using naked symbols during raid fights
I know the 2-1-1-2-1-0 repeating cadence with dance
but when can/should I squeeze an extra symbols+sectech in?
tepid trellis
its a judgementcall you are gonna have to make
example on that 0 there
if you know that you can get sectech back for flag
you can do sod+sectech
keep im mind tho that you basically only get 1 free SoD use in a fight
and you can kinda do that w/e you feel the timing is right
tepid trellis
i tend to just do it towards the end of a fight
hexed dagger
yeah just final burn spam everything
tepid trellis
if / when i know i wont get more cds
hexed dagger
right
vale pine
Did circlet change affect us ?
its now on par with a good heroic or bad mythic ring
dapper stirrup
In s1 we could craft a 610 pvp item with embelishments on the first week, is there something like that in s2?
steel zinc
its now on par with a good heroic or bad mythic ring
So ding Dagger craft and Ring Trick should be the first crafts
Did you update the sims with the nerfs fuu?
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
first craft is always a dagger
golden kelp
In s1 we could craft a 610 pvp item with embelishments on the first week, is the...
The difference in s2 is that all of that will be released at the same time as m+
vale pine
and after that you simply get 2x embellishment
jolly pasture
Can you do the craft scam with daggers also?
jolly pasture
Nice
dapper stirrup
But we have only 1 spark on the first week, i thought the pvp item could be higher ilvl
steel zinc
I mean it worked in S1 and still does rn with S1 gear
steel zinc
But we have only 1 spark on the first week, i thought the pvp item could be high...
yeah 1.5 sparks when the season starts
rain stratus
and after that you simply get 2x embellishment
Couldt you just slam embellishment on the dagger?
steel zinc
just do the theater event and pick up before the spark quest next to the catalyst
steel zinc
Couldt you just slam embellishment on the dagger?
You can
Focus Lense is also now working on dagger
keen dome
But we have only 1 spark on the first week, i thought the pvp item could be high...
If the quest repeats like in S1, it would in theory be a way to get a decent iLevel item. The PvP thing, that is.
Who knows if it does though.
steel zinc
If the quest repeats like in S1, it would in theory be a way to get a decent iLe...
pvp item imo not worth doing other then starting rn with honor grind
vale pine
Couldt you just slam embellishment on the dagger?
you can