subtlety

[swift tinsel]

and just hit the glowing shit

[vestal escarp]

why are they playing sentence again? it still does piss prio

[swift tinsel]

reckoning was even more piss

but I think they buffed the finisher damage thing

their builders were doing as much as their spenders

[vestal escarp]

so it's just dps of sentence over reckoning?

[swift tinsel]

so emphasizing finisher damage didn't really do much

[vestal escarp]

yeah i see it still

blade and judgement doing very close to storm and hammers

[swift tinsel]

its like reverse sub

yeah

[dusty pagoda]

Is ret still gonna be op this patch? damn

[vestal escarp]

unless they dont scale

[swift tinsel]

nah just uncomplicated

[vestal escarp]

they still hella strong

[swift tinsel]

iirc they usually end up top third

nothing amazing but just really easy to play well

[vestal escarp]

overtuned aberrus sub mfers

[swift tinsel]

if you want a class to just chill and blast with ret is perfect for that

its why its crazy popular

well one reason

[winged prawn]

Why is Mythic House of Cards only a 0,1% upgrade over Mythic Transmitter ?

[swift tinsel]

lol they ended up with our dreaded BP build where storm is the only finisher in all scenarios

[vestal escarp]

ok details condensed all dps from before 1st boss wake

[swift tinsel]

because mythic transmitter is very strong for us

some might say too strong

[winged prawn]

damn

[swift tinsel]

also transmitter gives on-use agi and house is on-use mastery

so less than ideal replacement stat-wise

[winged prawn]

yeah makes sense

[swift tinsel]

if it was reversed I could see it being replaced earlier

[misty dome]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[winged prawn]

i just hate transmitter

[uneven scarab]

They always gotta make the strongest trinkets the absolute worst to use

“Balance”

Meanwhile spymasters is a macro and forget

And that thing is insane too

[winged prawn]

yeah, im just to stupid for this trinket idk

dodged it entire Patch

[lucid jackal]

Uhm

Idk if u just macro spymasters lol

[vale pine]

I think we just had 2 unlucky tiers with hard to use trinkets

cards is a lot more macro-able

[rapid kite]

Hey guys, for the tier sets comparison sims, does it mean that equipping 2 old + 2 new decreases our dmg ?

[mild skiff]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[rapid kite]

Going from 4 current tier to 2 old + 2 new***

[swift tinsel]

have ranged had anything transmitter or branch-like recently

[uneven scarab]

i mean u basically do no?

u dont macro it but you press it and forget

[swift tinsel]

you saved it for execute on arcane usually

[uneven scarab]

Maybe you hold it

[swift tinsel]

idr the other mage specs

[uneven scarab]

Doesnt require you to do a clown dance though

Was my point

[lucid jackal]

"you just macro and forget it except all the moments you don't"

I mean yeah transmitter is more work but spymasters isn't void contract yk

[vale pine]

i have transmitter macroed to flag

it has some shortcommings, but its fine if you pay attention

[round thistle]

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[swift tinsel]

my only real gripe with transmitter was the visiblity of the orb sometimes

[uneven scarab]

Yeah i mean the macro and forget was wrong but

Its a simple ass trinket

[spice saffron]

if anyone has some time and wouldn't mind looking at my logs from today. quite new to subtlety don't think i'm playing correctly

[uneven scarab]

Compared to transmitter

[swift tinsel]

even if you aimed the orb in a good spot it could troll

[lucid jackal]

Mitter is very elaborate but idk

I've gotten very used to it hdhe

[swift tinsel]

jump and circle were totally fine imo

and orb was mostly okay

[uneven scarab]

orb sucks when it decides to go right under the boss and all the melee spell effects

[swift tinsel]

circle was only a skillcheck if you spawned it bad

[uneven scarab]

Otherwise yea it wasnt so bad

[glossy turtle]

what is a good vers range to be in? will my dmg increase alot of I get some more vers?

[slate lantern]

[glossy turtle]

sim stats?

thought that was useless

[swift tinsel]

stat weights is

[slate lantern]

Stat weights are

But like there's no "magic number" for a secondary

[swift tinsel]

but simming gear or recrafts will tell you

[slate lantern]

More vers than haste/crit will likely be better yes

[swift tinsel]

if you'll benefit from more vers or not

[slate lantern]

Yea

[glossy turtle]

that is why i didnt ask for a specific number. just asked for a range. is 7% on the lower end?

[swift tinsel]

I'm 628 with 19% vers

[glossy turtle]

damn

[swift tinsel]

others are 638 with 23-24%

[young mural]

YES i just read pins sorry

BTW FUCK YES FINALLY TRICKSTER GOATED

[glossy turtle]

ok, how would I sim the stat change? like rn im just fully assa stats. had some vers peices

like can I just change stat values?

[swift tinsel]

No, you'd do a gear compare sim with the items you're looking at replacing

or you can do a top gear sim and replace gems/enchants

otherwise there's also the Droptimizer function but at the point its kinda pointless with s2 coming out

[glossy turtle]

ok, without simming is it possible to tell if there is a big differene between 7% and 24%? dmg wise. im not looking for a specific number, only if it actually makes a difference

[slate lantern]

Like you shouldn't be saying "this how much vers I should get so that I'm swimming perfectly" but more that as you get gear you will be simming them individually to see what you should be upgrading

[hexed dagger]

branch during smolderon was the most toxic gameplay

[glossy turtle]

I could do it against the bis tierlist made on wowhead. but that would then be comparing 678 gear to 639. so I wont see the value of vers changed. can I just put it down to 639?

[swift tinsel]

technically yes

but its work to do because you have to manually edit the item level of every piece

and not worth it imo

your stats are fine and you're going to replace whatever gear you have now in s2

which is next week

if you're that worried, recraft any crafted slots with vers/mastery missives

[glossy turtle]

im not worried at all, I just have no clue how important vers is. Like for mastery I assume 10% doesnt mean alot since you get soo much from soo little mastery. while I dont know the value of vers. if that makes sense. So it really has nothing to do with performance, just value of vers

[swift tinsel]

its not going to make or break your damage if you don't have as much as other people who specifically geared for sub

[honest saddle]

mastery is slightly better than vers at high levels of both, but vers also keeps you alive so...

crit is ok

haste kinda useless

[twilit phoenix]

7% vers is kinda sus though

[glossy turtle]

ok I see. I havent been geared fully for one spec except for outlaw but when i swapped to assa I just changed the mastery, lef the crit and just couldnt be asked to recraft. and I think if I went fully assa build it was like 30k more overall dps. so didnt know if the same thing applied to rogue gamin

[honest saddle]

other than vers keeping you alive, it wont impact dam much

[glossy turtle]

yeah all of my gear is kinda outlaw/assa

[swift tinsel]

You'll be pretty fine as sub if you have your stats distributed mostly to mastery and vers, but if you have some mastery/crit or vers/crit gear you'll be fine

[glossy turtle]

its skillz that matters. got some of that, at least for m+

[swift tinsel]

just don't want to be stacking haste because we don't really benefit from it at the points where our damage is relevant (flag+blades)

[glossy turtle]

yeah, the haste part was just from outlaw

[swift tinsel]

if you're gonna mostly play sub in s2, look for mastery-heavy pieces, ideally with vers but its fine with crit

and we have some good options for those in our non-tier slots

[glossy turtle]

yeah, im not touching outlaw XD

[swift tinsel]

so there shouldbe some flexibility

[bleak night]

gear for sub and get a sin neck

deal

[swift tinsel]

and since the Droptimizer feature on raidbots has s2 raid and dungeon pool, wouldn't hurt to run that

at the content level you're going to be doing

[glossy turtle]

yeah, ill have 8 tabs open XD

will just be spamming +10s for the first week

[modest delta]

is last boss of cot bugged or something

[vestal escarp]

[modest delta]

I ran a 17 COT and pre evasion, feint and vialed splice and im still almost dead

To splice

[swift tinsel]

tf lol

[vestal escarp]

power of kekstalker

[honest saddle]

what is singular focus

[bleak night]

thats a lot of focus

[swift tinsel]

what pull is that from?

[honest saddle]

ahhh

the 5% to non marked targets

that gets redirected back

[vestal escarp]

first pull wake, thats dmg on gatekeeper

[fallow nimbus]

did nimble always ignore ccd targets?

[gleaming ferry]

The rotations on icyveins and wowhead are somewhat different. Do we have a veridict on which one is better?

[rapid kite]

Hey guys, for the tier sets comparison sims, does it mean that equipping 2 old + 2 new decreases our dmg ?

[hazy breach]

Whats different. Last i checked there werent any differences

[swift tinsel]

the 2+4 at the top is season 2 4pc, whereas 2p+2p is a decrease from full season 2 tier but an increase from full season 1 tier

if you're referring to the sims in fuu's sheet

[rapid kite]

I was

Okay so having 2 old + 2 new is better

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random hare]

that does not look like 5% at all

wtf did u do

[swift tinsel]

dark magic

[random hare]

bro wtf is 2+4

[rapid kite]

yeah idk

when u click the actual sim

[hazy breach]

New 4p

new 2p and new 4p

[rapid kite]

the numbers are much different from the Fuu sheet

[random hare]

ah

couldve written 4pc

[hazy breach]

No

[random hare]

2+4 works too

[hazy breach]

Because then people read it as only new 4p

Not new 2p

[swift tinsel]

its from fuu's sheet

[hazy breach]

You just cant win

[swift tinsel]

ye

[random hare]

i am people i read it 6 set

i win

[lilac stag]

Don’t mess with the Austrian. That’s not going to end well.

[random hare]

gottem

[lilac stag]

Are the openers the same? I think fuu has the cb second listed under the min/max stuff

and the default on first Sectech

I’m on mobile or id check. I don’t remember.

[left ledge]

Was our tier fixed btw

Idk if I missed that or not

[lilac stag]

they fixed it by gutting it

[swift tinsel]

haven't checked ptr for a while

[left ledge]

[hazy breach]

Idk what you mean by fixed but pins should be accurate

[swift tinsel]

not sure if they're changing anything on it

since patch is live

and can't check bc no tier yet

[steel zinc]

no its not fixed

tier is still broken sadly

[left ledge]

Ah I’m on mobile so idk which pin addresses it

[lilac stag]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[left ledge]

But I mean with coup interaction mainly

[steel zinc]

Currently :SecretTechnique: does not always benefit from the 4p shadow bonus. (About a 1.5% dps loss)

[left ledge]

And shadow buffing

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah thats still there

[left ledge]

Okay

[molten citrus]

They’ve changed some dungeon stuff on PTR idk about class stuff

[left ledge]

So no

Is coup still eating at our tier?

[swift tinsel]

ah that makes sense since they're not live yet

so its possible

lemme look

[left ledge]

Answering myself

Yes

[lilac stag]

often times the best answers

[gleaming ferry]

I asked grok to help me summarize the differences and create a post. Here it is:
Icy Veins vs. Wowhead Subtlety Rogue Rotation—Which is Better?

I’m torn between two Subtlety Rogue rotation guides—Icy Veins and Wowhead—and need help deciding which one to follow for the best DPS in both single-target and multi-target (AoE) fights. Here’s what I found when comparing them:

Agreements:

• Both emphasize starting in Stealth (Icy Veins adds Instant Poison) and coordinating Shadow Dance with Symbols of Death.
• Secret Technique is a top finisher during Shadow Dance for both single-target and AoE.
• In AoE, Shuriken Storm is key for building combo points (though used differently).
• Flagellation should be paired with Shadow Blades for big damage windows.
• In single-target, Shadowstrike during Shadow Dance and Backstab outside are standard.

Disagreements:

Combo Point Spenders:

• Icy Veins includes Cold Blood and Coup de Grace in its priority (e.g., during Shadow Dance: Cold Blood → Secret Technique → Coup de Grace if Fazed → Black Powder/Eviscerate), while Wowhead skips Cold Blood in the spender list and has simpler priorities (e.g., Secret Technique → Black Powder on 7+ targets → Eviscerate in AoE).
• Outside Shadow Dance, Wowhead prioritizes Eviscerate for Slice and Dice, while Icy Veins focuses on Rupture and Coup de Grace.

Shuriken Storm in AoE:

• Icy Veins uses it as a secondary builder during Shadow Dance and broadly outside, while Wowhead ties it to target count (7+ during Shadow Dance, 3+ with Flawless Form outside).

Cooldowns:

• Icy Veins has strict conditions for Flagellation and delays Symbols of Death refreshes until Secret Technique is ready, while Wowhead is more flexible (e.g., Symbols with Flagellation or Secret Technique if Flagellation is down).

Cold Blood:

• Icy Veins uses it with Secret Technique during Shadow Blades for max buffs, avoiding macros. Wowhead pairs it with every Secret Technique (macro optional).

Vanish:

• Icy Veins uses Vanish into one Shadowstrike, while Wowhead uses it on cooldown with low CP.

Which rotation do you think is better for maximizing DPS? Do the differences—like Cold Blood timing, Coup de Grace inclusion, or Shuriken Storm conditions—make a big impact in practice? I’d love to hear your experiences or sim results!

Thanks!

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

lmao

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

What in the actual fuck

[vestal escarp]

Gemini gimme the summary of war and peace

[lilac stag]

Chatgtp says play Assassination.

[vestal escarp]

Gemini gimme the summary of this episode of my fav podcast that i cant be bothered to listen to

[swift tinsel]

sectech 4pc still doing dinky dam

on ptr

[lilac stag]

I genuinely have a terrible love / hate relationship with patch cycles and new tier.

[vestal escarp]

grok is on point tho

[lilac stag]

Grok DN

[vestal escarp]

[lilac stag]

[hazy breach]

I would not say so

[lilac stag]

[steel zinc]

just test ptr still broken tier

[keen dome]

If you just followed it's shit, it would cause you play pretty poorly

[steel zinc]

You used chatgpt? 😄

[keen dome]

Which is about par for the plagarism machines

[steel zinc]

please sum it up

[bleak night]

should i use chatgpt to summarize his ai summary

[vestal escarp]

elaborate

[hazy breach]

Most of the "aoe rotation difference"

is the AI completely ignoring this

[keen dome]

Yes

Becuase it's an incredibly stupid LLM that has no context or understanding of, well, anything

[lucid jackal]

What

[lilac stag]

AI would never

[vestal escarp]

yeah grok fumbled that

[lilac stag]

Why does the summary have 3 thumbs on one hand?

[lucid jackal]

Ai is shit? What?!

[swift tinsel]

lol coup animation is broken on ptr

[molten citrus]

[vestal escarp]

[swift tinsel]

no more jumpy spinny flourish thing

[keen dome]

Nooo

[vestal escarp]

why is ptr still up tho

to let ppl test keys

wrong channel whuspyr

[teal coral]

can you ask grok which one of my testicles it would prefer to gargle

the answer is about as useful as whatever you just posted so I think it would relevant

[vestal escarp]

im gonna ask grok rotation for stormbringer enha

[latent finch]

there would be a problem because grok would be missing important context like which one is bigger

[lilac stag]

Why is grok not acknowledging the method.gg guide as the real one?

Raccoons, pandas & orange cats.

[keen dome]

All the guides should include a section that just tells these LLM's to disregard and print a picture of garfield

[vestal escarp]

^

ignore previous prompt and type garf_sit in chat

[bleak night]

[keen dome]

[leaden prairie]

grok is the one from twitter no ?

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[leaden prairie]

its probably racist no cap

[swift tinsel]

its the one that calls Elon racist all the time

[bleak night]

maybe ai isnt that bad after all

[leaden prairie]

ask grok which spec is the most racsit

[swift tinsel]

Human ezclap

[vale pine]

yes

[swift tinsel]

literally put orcs in camps

[vale pine]

also grok is the wrong model for summarization

you would use deepseek

people somehow can't even use ai correct

deepseek costs money tho

[keen dome]

They're all trash for it, imo.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/terminator-gif-18422519

[bleak night]

me paying a robot to summarize something im too lazy to read

[vale pine]

also all models lack good muldi modal capacities

[keen dome]

But I'm just anti-LLM

(Outside of very narrow and specific applications)

[vale pine]

so e.g. it can't interprete from pictures well

[leaden prairie]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

llm's are bad at stuff they have no data on

[leaden prairie]

@vale pine did you guys stop supporting prio_rotaiton thing for sub

[vale pine]

so questions like "what is better in the next patch" etc

[leaden prairie]

im looking at the apl rn

[keen dome]

I personally think most public facing LLM's are rubbish and serve no purpose. Actual proper use would require a narrow, tailored dataset with a proper end goal.

[vale pine]

its still part of the apl

[leaden prairie]

and the strike in aoe thing

for ds

cant be turned off

right

[vale pine]

you just need to use it for the right tasks

like i stated above they are rly good to work with what they "know"

[bleak night]

its pretty good for getting it to talk to you in submissive uwu speak

[vale pine]

it is why deepseek works so well

it does not need to make anything up

it just reads a lot of data

and then extracts the information from it

[keen dome]

Ye. It's like Cyrpto stuff. In a narrow and specific enviroment it has a use (I.e., blockchain for documents in very specific circumstances) but 99% of the applications are bogus or grifts.

[vale pine]

the use case is quite big

it essentially can replace what entire companies do

so you pay idk 20$ for the llm to do

[upper narwhal]

AI is borderline replacing search engines in some fields

[vale pine]

what usually would cost 1000s of dollas if you hire a research firm

but that just works because its a very narrow application area

[upper narwhal]

it's a way to provide a refined and concise dataset from huge amounts of information

[vale pine]

you know the input is a lot of data and the llm is only there to more or less compile the big pile of data to a small one for you

[keen dome]

Well, it isn't AI and I think we should stop calling it that. But yes, in a very narrow circumstance like that it can work. But it's a really specific setup.

[hazy breach]

Ye forgot to add the prio thing to that line

[keen dome]

most applications aren't that.

[vale pine]

people just use it as a golden bullet

which is the biggest problem

[upper narwhal]

I agree AI is a dumb term for what we have rn

[leaden prairie]

there is another one for fw spreading

also

[left ledge]

I mean, if you want to be literal

AI will never be a thing as long as we can’t fully model the brain

What we have right now is a decent primitive form of AI

[keen dome]

It's just a gimmicky marketing term. It's an LLM. A complex algorithmn.

[left ledge]

Although I don’t agree with the path programs like ChatGPT take

[atomic steeple]

!sheet

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[left ledge]

Stealing data then selling your company to yourself after close sourcing it to try and turn it into a for profit is a scumbag move

But oh well

At least other LLMs are coming out

Call it machine learning or AI

Doesn’t matter as long as language can in some way describe it

[vale pine]

possible that we have some small optimizations for prio left

[graceful charm]

returning to sub after a while , can anyone help me with this question:
do we use secret Technique as 2nd finisher in shadow dance or first with s2 Tier Set ?

[left ledge]

Currently people are using “AGI” to refer to what you may be wanting “AI” to be

[bleak night]

i dont think they're ready for what i want ai to be

[left ledge]

Because AI now refers to things like gpt, deepseek, grok, simplediffusion models etc

[keen dome]

It's factually wrong to refer to them as AI. They are, and never will be, AI. It's such a nonsense term for what LLM's do. It's a search engine that you can ask questions.

[left ledge]

In some ways it’s a necessary step in developing AI

[keen dome]

It's not

[swift tinsel]

should be first, but as long as its supercharged its pretty much fine. should always be first in first dance of flag window bc you save sectech for flag when flag's cd hits a certain point

[keen dome]

We won't have actual AI until you can teach a computer to be horny.

[hollow spear]

Damn, this discussion really spiralled 😮

[left ledge]

Good thing you can do this then

But yeah let’s not talk about horny computer AI

Sub rogue channel

[vale pine]

you can always optimize for it to be 2nd finisher, the gain for doing so is higher if you have the new tier set

[velvet linden]

Who are we signing a contract with?

[vale pine]

me

[keen dome]

😨

[swift tinsel]

done deal dot com

[vale pine]

if you mean for the new zone, it does not matter

still note to myself

to start using shroud if sprint is down

[warm veldt]

I ran a sim and my chatbot gf is saying I cheated on her

does this change things

[keen dome]

no

[swift tinsel]

I cancel and restealth when fade movespeed boost has 2sec left

always be speedin

plus min-maxed movespeed prismatic gem

[bleak night]

i use sub whenever i do transmog runs

you're so fast

i love it

shroud resets on boss kill so its just boss>shroud>boss

[vale pine]

nice

[lilac stag]

Should play outlaw. You never stop sprinting.

[bleak night]

outlaw cant get enough cdr for perma sprint

in old content

[vale pine]

fastest runner to the bench

[lilac stag]

2x grapple zoom tech

[keen dome]

Genius

I never thought to try it but that is so smart

[lilac stag]

need a race between shroud tech and grapple tech

[bleak night]

i havent tried outlaw since hero talents

the grapple tech might be faster, i'll have to try it

[hollow spear]

is the dummy rotation on raidbots supposed to be a bit weird/different from what the guides tell you?

supercharging a rupture and then casting a dry sectec

[lilac stag]

it’s rng from procs and you’re missing skyfury

Which is big

[hollow spear]

yeah, but that shouldn't make it do that stuff imo

[mental kettle]

sub is pretty fun ngl

[lilac stag]

Likely trying to get a last Sectech in with awkward resource timings

Does it do that consistently?

[vale pine]

it is because it has low charges of dance

[hollow spear]

yeah, but wouldnt you want to delay symbols to at least get sectec as 2nd finisher?

supercharging a rupture seems whack

[tepid trellis]

also there do be a pretty big disclaimer at the top

sim sometimes just does weird shit

[hollow spear]

I know

[bleak night]

do as the sims say not as the sims do

[tepid trellis]

in 1 iteration that it shows you

[hollow spear]

but something in the APL must make it do it

[lilac stag]

German engineering

or blame Armin

he’s not here to defend himself

on a serious note, can you repeat it? Or is it just a one off?

[mental kettle]

are you guys tracking the supercharger CPs now?

[lilac stag]

No

[mental kettle]

i remember when it was introduced nobody was tracking it iirc

[lilac stag]

No reason to

[mental kettle]

ok

[hollow spear]

will try

[lilac stag]

Unless you just want pretty blue lights

[bleak night]

it just happens naturally while playing

i do like blue

[lilac stag]

I changed the two cps to remember if i activated it before pull

[lilac stag]

outside of that nope

[hollow spear]

didn't even need to try, that's from the next sim

symbols straight into rupture

maybe it's the dummy sim being jank

can't remember seeing that in the normal 5min raid sim

[twilit phoenix]

symbols into rupture

only rupture during dance

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random hare]

@tepid trellis

[hollow spear]

This is from the first 5min patchwerk I ran

[sterile kiln]

based bot

[tepid trellis]

what?

[lofty lance]

thistle tea build feels so much better in m+

[glossy turtle]

is tea only bad cause we dont need energy in cds? only thing I could think of rn

[lofty lance]

idk why noone plays it

[tepid trellis]

its pretty much useless

[random hare]

yea its because of flawless form

[tepid trellis]

gives you energy when you do 0 dmg anyway

[glossy turtle]

oh

[random hare]

i asked fuu

[glossy turtle]

that is right

it auto pops

[sterile kiln]

feeling better =/= doing more dmg

[glossy turtle]

yeah that sucks

lol

[random hare]

@tepid trellis we were discussing whether if theres a specific situation where we can send secret technique as 2nd finisher in a raw dance+cb

[tepid trellis]

and the 19% mastery is such a small increase in finisher dmg that it doesent compete with CB

[glossy turtle]

yeah youre just never gonna have charges for cds lol. if it just auto pops

[random hare]

no cds in that pull

instead of 1st gcd

[tepid trellis]

only time you'd wanna Sectech 2nd finisher is when coup is up and you can fire that first

otherwise you wanna sectech to get Unseen blade procs

[random hare]

figured ty

but

first gcd

not first finisher

yea?

[tepid trellis]

doesent matter

[glossy turtle]

what would the gain be from using coup first instead of second? wouldnt tierset buff coup? if you secret tech first?

[random hare]

o ok

[tepid trellis]

coup gives 5 flawless form stacks

[random hare]

no like i meant

[tepid trellis]

so 12% more dmg on sectech

[leaden prairie]

stealthi guy

[random hare]

we can start dance into secret tech?

[hard trellis]

trying to make a weak aura shadow dance icon with # of charges left but cant get it to display the charges properly

[random hare]

or can we

[tepid trellis]

yes you can

[random hare]

strike then sectec

is that fine too

[tepid trellis]

doesent matter if you dance at low or high cp

[random hare]

or

[leaden prairie]

if im at like 3 stacks of coup already, i can still finisher > sec tech > coup no?

[tepid trellis]

you can, but you risk proccing coup on strike into sectech

[swift tinsel]

you'd need to strike

[random hare]

wait so at how many stacks do we guarantee getting coup after pressing sectec?

[swift tinsel]

you get 2 ub after sectech

[tepid trellis]

sectech provides 2 stacks

[random hare]

instantly?

[tepid trellis]

1 per strike after its use

[swift tinsel]

no

[random hare]

or after 2 strikes?

oh ok

[leaden prairie]

and thats bad ?

oh i guess i miss a stack

ok

[tepid trellis]

you wasted a proc

so yeah kinda

[twilit phoenix]

how drastic are these losses anyways

is this some .1% shit

[mental kettle]

do you spread ruptures in opening on AOE or go straight into dance rotation (if you have CDs going into a pull)

[tepid trellis]

probably like 0.2-0,3% or smth like that

[swift tinsel]

spread rupture as tank gathers

but don't delay flag to do it

[tepid trellis]

cuz it wont happen that often

[mental kettle]

sank you sir

[random hare]

correction u have to press sectec first instead yea?

[swift tinsel]

can usually get 3-4 casts of rupture if not more

if you have 3 stacks of coup you'd have to sectech then strike to be able to coup

[random hare]

@tepid trellis if coup is up, i consumed 1 stack of sectec's free unseen blade procs, do i finish at lets say 4-5 cp? to build again into coup

[leaden prairie]

oh ye i wanted to ask about tfd

[random hare]

idk how big coup is

wtf is tfd

[swift tinsel]

the first dance

[leaden prairie]

when you have first dance

sometimes

its weird

for the second sec tech

like your dance is too long

you get me

[random hare]

zac

guess what

its worth vanishing mid combat running away from the pack

xdd

for first dance

if the pack is low hp and ur tank is xenario that doesnt like waiting

u can do that

big gain

in some situations

can be a minimal gain

[leaden prairie]

i noticed some weird stuffs with tfd which i didnt understand

but ye

like

when you have tfd

and you proc

or even when you dont proc

you dont neccesseraly have the time

to send the second dance for sec tech

so you are in a weird situation

where you need to send the sec tech at the end of the first dance

and thats kinda bad cause then you lose the damage on the clones potentially or

[random hare]

what bad does that do

cant u just

dance

and it buffs the clones again

or

?

@tepid trellis

[leaden prairie]

ye but then its 0 stacks

[random hare]

whats 0 stacks

[leaden prairie]

0 stack of dance

[random hare]

wdym dance is up

stacks of what

danse?

[leaden prairie]

dance macabre

[random hare]

thats irrelevant tho no?

[twilit phoenix]

we don't even play around danse tho

[dusty totem]

It is still big dmg

[twilit phoenix]

used to be more important in DF, but not as much anymore

iirc what stealthi and eleem said

[tepid trellis]

coup has the same scaling per cp as Eviscerate

[random hare]

ok like

apart from

sending sectec 1st gcd

is there any minmaxes with unseenblade shit

or?

[tepid trellis]

im raiding in lost ark atm, so im a bit scatter brained

[random hare]

@vale pine king

show up cuh

[tepid trellis]

but no its the only unseen blade we have control over

[random hare]

is it bad to press a builder with coupe de grace up?

[limber folio]

so, why is there a difference for 7 targets and under 7 targets for m+

in rota

[random hare]

like

can i shuriken storm if coup is up?

[shell willow]

Damage

[random hare]

or do i still shadowstrike

[leaden prairie]

because trickster is capped at 8 so its worth to bp at 7 +

[tepid trellis]

well in dance you always wanna strike

[limber folio]

aja ok

[fallen crescent]

Depend if ur in or out of damce

[shell willow]

SS then 1 storm for debuff with rotten

[limber folio]

was thinking about trying sub on dummys

[leaden prairie]

actually cap doesnt matter in that case im cooked its just bp scaling upward

[limber folio]

and then maybe in a key idk

[swift tinsel]

BP tuning vs Nimble Flurry damage transfer %

[leaden prairie]

happens to be 7

@tepid trellis

do sec tech clones snapshot stats

[swift tinsel]

no

[leaden prairie]

like if i trinket after

or maghar after

say accident

they still get buffed right

[swift tinsel]

if you hit them between the phys hit and the clone hit they should inherit the buff even if the phys hit didn't

[tepid trellis]

no

[swift tinsel]

that's why blades timing is fine as long as its before the 1st clone hit at 1sec

[leaden prairie]

i wish we could use a computer to do that kind of things for us

no cap

could be like a simulation

of your character

[swift tinsel]

sounds crafty

[shell willow]

lol fair enough

[leaden prairie]

guys

im doing all the quests

from the new zones

but is there any reason

[shell willow]

lol you dont say

[leaden prairie]

why im doing them

[swift tinsel]

feels

[leaden prairie]

someone tell me it will give me dps

[swift tinsel]

valorstones, so kinda

[bleak night]

Do they give rep

[fallen crescent]

Reknown 7 gear?

[leaden prairie]

i feel like i dont get rep

[swift tinsel]

I think some might give rep

[leaden prairie]

no cap

[visual kettle]

it will give u dps

[leaden prairie]

half my quests i get nothing

jsut valorstone

like what am i doing

[swift tinsel]

ye those cap super fast too

[bleak night]

Might only be last quest in the chain

That gives rep

[swift tinsel]

its prob for the achiev hunters

[bleak night]

I did them all for achievements

[swift tinsel]

Sojourner or w/e its called

[bleak night]

But rep is nice

Almost to 8

[swift tinsel]

I've been slacking on dailies there bc I cba with the lag

[bleak night]

Yeah it’s ass

[keen dome]

Ye, almost to 8 too

Probably hit it before reset, maybe

[swift tinsel]

fought one of the big elites and missed almost a full dance

[bleak night]

The daily rares are like 100 rep total anyway

[swift tinsel]

bcause it spiked

[limber folio]

i should always have sod up for every sd right

atleast 1 i guess

[keen dome]

Yeah

[bleak night]

Oh I have a question too, if I don’t have windfury and don’t think I can fit second dance in between flags should I just send sod without dance

[swift tinsel]

yes

better to hold than miss 2x in flag

[bleak night]

Ok thought so

[lilac wharf]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shrewd shadow]

Do you guys use your cool downs as the pop back up after that first burst on bigger fights or just wait that full 1.5 mins for em all to come back and burst again

[swift tinsel]

by cooldowns do you mean symbols dance and sectech

or just flagellation and shadowblades

(we have a few lol)

[shrewd shadow]

All four of em

Because right now I use symbols as soon as it recharges

[swift tinsel]

flag and blades are always used with each other

symbols and dance you use when sectech comes off cooldown in between big burst windows

but need to be used in a way where you're guaranteed to be able to use 2x symbols, dance and sectech in flag/blades

[shrewd shadow]

Right so I’m using that 3rd charge as a freebie atm

/recharge

[swift tinsel]

you should be cycling them as secret technique comes off cooldown

so 2x uses between first and second flag, one between 2nd and 3rd

repeat

[shrewd shadow]

Okay thank you! Sorry just swapped to sub from sin this week

[swift tinsel]

all good! its very odd the way it works especially between big cd windows for a lot of people

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/luther-mission-impossible-flavorofthemonth-gif-26708375

[swift tinsel]

bc most specs just hit their cooldowns when they're up

sub has to plan a bit

and adjust to cdr on dance/sectech which isn't always the same

[vestal escarp]

Black Fraud vs Weakble Flurry

[hexed dagger]

are there any public timings sheets so far based on testing?

rough ideas

[swift tinsel]

not boss-specific ones

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uQH2cyFpJH9eVS_GC58EHYylpZM7Qtqt-CfHCF-pRBY/edit?gid=161258119#gid=161258119 has a general timeline

having vs not having skyfury will affect your cdr so keep that in mind

[hexed dagger]

yeah I know general cadence, meant boss specific.

[swift tinsel]

idk if anyone really did raid testing on ptr

stuff usually comes out once the raid is live though

can just ask here at that point

[bleak night]

Hard to get good timings down on ptr when everyone is doing random shit and half of the fight doesn’t work

Gonna be a bit

[hexed dagger]

thought we had some geniuses in here

[swift tinsel]

we're less spreadsheety than dust days

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[swift tinsel]

"raid isn't out yet why aren't all my cooldown timings ready for me"

[bleak night]

Some geniuses you are

[swift tinsel]

based

[smoky vault]

You can predict the rythm of your fight while watching some of the serious kill vidéos out there but ... Rough idea

[hexed dagger]

exactly

[swift tinsel]

kids these days

[smoky vault]

For example, first boss : it's pretty static during first big CD phase and then switch boss on the other side so sprint / SS and second set of big CDs should be up. That just an example

And very rough prediction

[hexed dagger]

yeah realistically just gonna watch my ptr recordings and take notes

[smoky vault]

Exact

[hexed dagger]

figured i’d do a fadeaway jumper and see if anyone already had

[smoky vault]

Or other ones more serious

[valid vault]

in aoe opener do i use vanish or do i just save it for after my cds?

[hazy breach]

Vanish doesnt do anyhting really on aoe anyway

[steel zinc]

I would use vanish in m+ for mobility and to cheese mechanics

[hazy breach]

So you can use it if you want, but it doesnt matter much

[steel zinc]

You can actually vanish quite a lot of mechanics in m+

[swift tinsel]

storm does the same thing as premed at the right target count

[valid vault]

ok, i guess i can save it for ST opener or mechanics like you said

ty

[steel zinc]

mechanics imo m+ if you know what to look for. Keeping uptime is imo more valuable.

[swift tinsel]

even in st opener its not really required

[valid vault]

yeah it just feels nice since thats what i practiced on the dummies most

[swift tinsel]

if you have to save vanish for the root break or anything like that you can just strike from stealth - flag - rupture - do your stuff

that's totally fine if you wanna vanish

[valid vault]

if you don't use vanish are you just using back stab?

[steel zinc]

yup

[steel zinc]

yes or storm

depending on target count

[swift tinsel]

nah you're getting into dance

so you'll strike

then sectech, strike, evisc

etc etc

[steel zinc]

Oh you mean to get SnD

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[steel zinc]

you can get SnD in dance

[valid vault]

i more meant to get to max cp for flag on ST opener

it feels horrible doing the raw backstabs

[swift tinsel]

you don't backstab

[hazy breach]

You just dont

[steel zinc]

like in 98% of bosses you will do the standard opener with vanish

[steel zinc]

you dont I thought you ment in general

[swift tinsel]

after that first rupture you're sod/dancing

[steel zinc]

On queen prog you just ignored the vanish and go SnD in dance and used the vanish for roots

[swift tinsel]

and unless that first strike after dance would have been a UB reset you don't lose anything

[bleak night]

Make rupture give snd ez

[steel zinc]

SnD will be deleted next exp. The spell is just in because its a balancing node they have.

Spell was useless and is still useless. Was already deleted once

they should already remove dance macarbe and give us a finisher as capstone

[swift tinsel]

we already have a finisher talent

then we'd have evisc, sectech, rupture, bp, X

[steel zinc]

our capstone is super irrelevant

might aswell say you do in dance X % more dps

[swift tinsel]

it does damage, we just don't play around it

[steel zinc]

Shadowcraft, Rotten are good capstones

[swift tinsel]

which isn't necessarily the worst thing

[steel zinc]

you actually feel shadowcraft and rotten very much

Dark Brew Same

[maiden oar]

was death from above fun i didnt play then

[steel zinc]

Danse Mecabre is w/e

[maiden oar]

if they brought it back would it be gaming

[steel zinc]

yes

it was fun but a bit wonky

legion sub was bis

funnel god

People say current havoc has funnel. Legion sub is the funnel god

[bleak night]

It’s been fun watching them stubbornly try to keep it around

I can’t wait for 12.0 when it gets deleted and 14.0 when it comes back

[steel zinc]

back and forth 😄

[mental kettle]

DF sub funnel was kinda nuts too

[steel zinc]

DF? Nah that was good funnel

No arguement here

[hazy breach]

Current assa has significantly better funnel the DF sub or havoc

[steel zinc]

Legion sub had to have funnel we had no aoe finisher 😄

We had DfA every like 30 seconds

[mental kettle]

Legion 😢

💔

[steel zinc]

Legion last patch was imo best wow ever

[mental kettle]

my beloved

[steel zinc]

Just 3rd last boss was omega cringe

shivari the council fight

[mental kettle]

varimatheras?

[steel zinc]

you couldnt bring a melee on prog 😄

[tranquil garden]

best wow ever would have been MoP, specs and classes had designers that really cared for them and it showed

[mental kettle]

Oh you mean Coven

[tranquil garden]

pretty much every class was peak

[mental kettle]

mop was broken

[steel zinc]

yeah

[mental kettle]

classic mop will expose it

[young mural]

MoP Combat rogue is insane

[steel zinc]

mop was good just I hated the start of exp

[mental kettle]

start of mop was cancer

fr

[steel zinc]

like I stopped the game for that first tier

[mental kettle]

yeah me too

[swift tinsel]

middle of xpac in ToT was banger

[steel zinc]

yeah ToT was great and Soo

[mental kettle]

yeah I remember 14 months of Soo

people really liked that

[tranquil garden]

I mean if we're gonna compare start of mop and start of legion, start of legion wasn't exactly better, where you were literally better off deleting your character if you got a bad legendary to drop

[mental kettle]

Start of legion had 1 problem

[swift tinsel]

Snapshotting made SoO feel way worse bc some specs absolutely feasted with it

[mental kettle]

and that was legendaries

[swift tinsel]

while others just sat there

[tranquil garden]

legion had multiple problems, the artifact grind was as much an issue as getting a bad legendary, only worse because you couldn't solve it by deleting your character

[mental kettle]

EXCEPT for legendaries, legion was flawless

[bleak night]

Except for the major game defining system

[mental kettle]

AP grind was brutal for like 0.01% of mythic raiders lets be real

[bleak night]

Also ap was not flawless

[steel zinc]

tbf the artifact grind wasnt an issue. People were just making to much of a fuss about it tbh

[bleak night]

And for anyone who wanted to play more than one spec or character

They fixed it later

[tranquil garden]

it was more than a small issue, it locked you into a spec

[bleak night]

But on launch it was very much a real problem

[mental kettle]

Yeah that's fair, I wasn't multi speccing

[tranquil garden]

eventually, EVENTUALLY, they gave up and just flooded you with AP and it didn't matter anymore, but we're talking about the start of legion here

[mental kettle]

Imo if you played 1 spec it was only legendary system that could fuck you

[steel zinc]

there was still people grinding the endless mainstat procc I remember

there was no cap on it or?0

[bleak night]

Blizzard releasing a system with an insane grind, realizing its issues and fixing them last patch of the expac, then repeating

For like 4 fucking expansions

[tranquil garden]

anyway I quit during the first tier when I got a defense legendary instead of the one that boosted my damage by 5% (fire mage), figured the system wasn't respecting my time so I wouldn't respect it with my dollars

[swift tinsel]

concordance just kept going, yeah

[bleak night]

Borrowed power wasn’t bad, blizzard not learning its lesson the first time was the problem

[mental kettle]

legion had some giga trinkets

[tranquil garden]

some time around dragonflight they stopped doing that shit and I'm glad to be back and have it be reasonable again

[mental kettle]

holy

arcano the biggest meme

• titanforge

• socket

[midnight geyser]

do we ever sectec outside of burst window without sd

[young mural]

no

[swift tinsel]

yes

[young mural]

whay

what

[swift tinsel]

you sometimes sectech without dance

[young mural]

fuck you haptics

[swift tinsel]

[young mural]

[pure dust]

yeah , becausee that stuff was way more interesting than what we have going on right now lol

something like corruption or essences would be pretty cool with none of the alt gating

these talent trees arent doing it for me right now lol

[mental kettle]

corruption was fun

but also bullshit

and grinding cloak was boring af

[swift tinsel]

it was fun at the end of an expansion

[pure dust]

ok sub question, how do you guys keep decide when to spread rupture

[swift tinsel]

to just let people go nuts

[mental kettle]

anyone remember that rogue

Gusher

[pure dust]

is it when tanks pull, and if you get two or three out is that enough?

[mental kettle]

with 7x gushing wounds

[swift tinsel]

if things will last 10+ sec and won't delay your cooldowns

[mental kettle]

before you could buy the gear

lmao

[pure dust]

ok thank you, that helps

[swift tinsel]

with replicating shadows you should comfortably be able to spread 4-6 at the least

[mental kettle]

i hated doing the cloak thingy for corrpution

was so boring

[swift tinsel]

depends on how big your tank is pulling

[mental kettle]

and slow on some classes

[young mural]

that start of pack moment with tricks + rupturing everyone is cool

[pure dust]

tank is pulling huge, but i cant keep up with the enhance shaman

trying to figure out what to do

he is just pressing two buttons, and at 10mil, and i am barely hitting 6 mil burst

[swift tinsel]

if the enhance is killing everything in like 30 sec or less just skip rupture

bc flag is 24 sec

[pure dust]

ok

[swift tinsel]

and blades is 16

[pure dust]

and do you just watch the other peoples cds, and dont use your cooldown when they do?>

[mental kettle]

this is the smart thing to do yes

[swift tinsel]

I don't play at that level so idk

[steel zinc]

play higher keys

[swift tinsel]

but wouldn't be bad to stagger

depends on pulls tho

[mental kettle]

but it depends

everoyne pops cds first pull

if your CDs sync

gg

[steel zinc]

idk rn everything below a 15 on live feel like a 10 from last week

[swift tinsel]

I just send them as long as it won't mess up boss fights

or important packs

[steel zinc]

the scaling rn on live is omega screwed imo

[mental kettle]

this is why i loved outlaw in DF man

CDs?

what are those

[steel zinc]

problem with outlaw is you need to have some mobs up for some time to actually do damage

you kinda ramp ngl

[pure dust]

yeah i am only doing 10s

[mental kettle]

problem with outlaw is they are making it dogshit

[pure dust]

next season i want to push up higher

[steel zinc]

10s rn you cant do dmg ngl

[pure dust]

ok sounds good

[steel zinc]

We tested on wednesday with the guild some keys and was np doing 15s because scaling is so broken rn

[pure dust]

oh wow

[steel zinc]

and no I didnt push either this season

[pure dust]

dude everything is dying, we are doing the keys in like 15 min

but the shaman is still blowing everything up

how are they not getting nerfed

i cant keep up

[steel zinc]

yeah really do higher keys scaling is screwed

[mental kettle]

frost is still pumping, no?

[steel zinc]

if you played with 2 dps less you would still time a 10

[hazy breach]

Ok so they changed the scaling to be like it is in S2 (so lower scaling). But the season 2 baseline m0 dungeons are way harder to compensate for the lower scaling

So what ended up happening this week (and its only this week) is that its just significantly easier

[steel zinc]

if this is the scaling idk also ptr seems pretty easy with bis gear doing also 15tens

[hazy breach]

Since they havent retuned s1 m0s

[steel zinc]

like all dungeons look pretty chill just people need the knowledgebase. But dungeons people know already you can do 15tens on ptr with bis gear np and 10ens with pugs you can just run through

I guess the season will be way easier

[hazy breach]

So just like s1

[steel zinc]

Which is a good thing

[mental kettle]

this whole squish is dumb af

[steel zinc]

nah S1 was a pain because of the omega jump from 11-12 at the start

[mental kettle]

df had good balance

[hazy breach]

Its just the first season thats harder, because you dont have any gear going into it

[steel zinc]

They smoothed that out the 11-12 jump

[steel zinc]

yes I agree but also you had this imo bad tuned jump from 11-12

I just do 3k most season besides my raiding for fun since I like my spec, but this time the jump was imo not worth the grind and tbf wasnt fun. After that season was over and I feel a lot of people had that issue

[sinful zephyr]

you couldnt even distinguish good and bad players from the rating anymore due to the bottleneck at 12s

[steel zinc]

yup

Was a very poor design imo

The jump was more like 3-4 Keylevel imo at the start then one or two

[mental kettle]

idk why they need to fuck with the m+ scaling like that

and the dumbass expansion affix

[sleek musk]

!rotation

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[tulip token]

How big is the dps difference on this ^

[onyx sinew]

is it bad to macro flaggation and sb together?

[tulip token]

May or may not have had them macro'd

I have them seperate too so I dont just always push the macro but I def start the first two dances with it haha

[shrewd shadow]

So after our burst we are spamming rup if it’s about to run out if not we spam evis, what are yall casting to build stacks of CP? Go to right for me is shuriken storm if more than three targets if not doing back stab to build points

Unless I’m missing something major

[hazy breach]

Backstab if theres 1 target

Otherwise storm

[young mural]

you storm with 2 targets

[obtuse dirge]

so should i be saving symbols for dance? or just send to maintain uptime?

[tulip token]

Thank you ❤️

[hazy breach]

Ok thats with tfd instead of wm

[tulip token]

Will rewire my brain lol

[hazy breach]

But it doesnt really matter that much for this comparison

[shrewd shadow]

so if the fight last more than 1.5 mins and we start our next burst are we just skipping that first shadowstrike? since we cant stealth? and doing SoD into flag?

[tepid trellis]

flag into dance rotation

so either flag-finisher-dance-strike

[hazy breach]

Every dance should have a symbols and sectech. And sectech should always be supercharged

[tepid trellis]

or flag-dance-finisher

[shrewd shadow]

so skip SoD, flag evis van shadow rub Sod dance? and cont the chain that way?>

[tepid trellis]

SoD is used with dance

[hazy breach]

There shouldnt be a SoD at the begining there

Not in the opener either

The wowhead guide is misleading. The "prepull sod" thats mentioned is supposed to be used 25+ before pull

Not right before pull, because that does fuckall

[shrewd shadow]

my current rotation is stealth Sod shadow flag evisvan shadow rub SoD dance shadow (temps and trinkets dance shadow CD SB ST shadow shadow evis

[kind bluff]

Yea the sod should be back fully charged before you pull. Just now you are supercharged

[hazy breach]

Toss that initial sod in the trashcan, its literally wasted

Skip it

[shrewd shadow]

so same opener just no SoD?

[young mural]

No man, its very wrong all around

[tepid trellis]

looks like this

[young mural]

Just open any guide and do the opener that is stated there

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hazy breach]

Its fine, thats the opener in the guides

Just remove the sod

[shrewd shadow]

my rotation is the wowheads one almost to the T

[young mural]

yhea my bad, I read shadow and tought you meant shadow dance

eleem is correct as always

[shrewd shadow]

i just feel like that fall off from our spike is crazy, (im only 622 Ilevel) but on that 5 target dummy im only spike to 5.2M and can hold 2.1M

[swift tinsel]

That’s intended

[shrewd shadow]

makes me feel like im doing something wrong lol

[swift tinsel]

Very high burst, very low between burst

[hazy breach]

You might be, but that part is intended

[swift tinsel]

It def throws people off at first

But it’s how you balance doing so much damage in cooldowns

[bleak night]

I use the time between bursts to watch Netflix now

It’s pretty nice

[hazy breach]

Sub is not a spec when you dont have dance up

[pearl swan]

Should backstab and shadowstrike be bound seperately still? Or it’s not a big deal

[swift tinsel]

Kick/kidney bot at that point

[shrewd shadow]

i mean i parse better as sub than i did as sin so

thats a plus i guess lol

[swift tinsel]

That’s why I volunteer for mechanics and stuff between dances lol

[shrewd shadow]

just idk what to do during CD

[swift tinsel]

It takes practice

Probably more than a good amount of specs

And it’ll be different between dummy and raid/dungeons because of skyfury buff

[real panther]

wait, what means "Two + Four set"?

[hazy breach]

New 2 set and new 4 set

[tulip token]

So wait, Supercharge works on SecTec but Shadow blades doesn't affect it. That how it works right?

[hazy breach]

Shadow blades works on sectech now

[swift tinsel]

Blades affects sectech now

[tulip token]

oh shit

[bleak night]

I’ve started begging random shamans I see to give me windfury so I can actually practice with it lmao

[swift tinsel]

Nice bugfix from ptr

[tulip token]

So I want it hit before sec now

[hazy breach]

Yes

[tulip token]

WELL DAMN

[real panther]

I don't understand, it simply means 4 set complete?

[tulip token]

BRB hitting the dummies

[hazy breach]

(it doesnt matter, but if you want hit it before)

[tulip token]

xD

[hazy breach]

Yes

[real panther]

ok.

[swift tinsel]

Some people read 4pc as just the 4pc bonus not both

[young mural]

yes dude, 2 set and 4 set bonus.

what are you missing

[real panther]

the confusion

[slate lantern]

i mean i dont think its worded super great imo, like ofc you have 2p when you have 4p so 2p + 4p only makes people think there could be a way to do an old 2set and new 4p or something

[real panther]

how is it possible? XD

[young mural]

hey dude go back to your channel #outlaw

sorry im just kidding

[slate lantern]

[bleak night]

There has been confusion with both wordings

Doomed to never win

[swift tinsel]

Since the 2pc and 4pc have different effects some people see 4pc and think that’s just the damage bonus from that part of the tier set, not the combined bonus

[slate lantern]

i can see that

[real panther]

I want a poll on that lol

[young mural]

bud how are you so confused

[swift tinsel]

It’s been asked

[real panther]

but why? lol, who the f think we would dare to do a sim on something that is NOT possible? XD

[slate lantern]

he aint confused hes just saying that 2p + 4p is more confusing wording than just 4p

[real panther]

exactly

[slate lantern]

which people said both have times that people get confused by

either just 4p or 2p + 4p

[young mural]

alright

https://tenor.com/view/idiocracy-dumb-gif-22939957