dam, my gear was full crit mastery
#subtlety
main wing
keen dome
It's how we are.
main wing
maybe 3% haste
hollow spear
Lemme delete that
People might believe me despite every single guide saying the opposite
main wing
ye but being almost afk while in combat is weird
cursive vapor
is there any other burst class which is similar to sub in burst?
hollow spear
Yeah
tribal blade
to be fair it's probably the worst case of down time any spec in the game has
main wing
dev?
vestal escarp
Statistics are unreliable rn
tribal blade
it seems like an extremely common thing people find about sub when first coming to it
it took me a LONG time to stop getting tilted outside of cds
main wing
i would just love to understand why would a class designer would want the player to be almost afk in combat
im ok if thats the design
plush roost
Doesn't feel bad using 7cp kidney shot
tribal blade
it does have a big upside where you can know if you're not in cds you're good to int what you're doing
rotation wise
because it's not gonna make a big difference
something like outlaw they fuck up at any point it's a huge snowball effect
rain stratus
I mean you still have to press your buttons since it allows you to somewhat maintain your damage through CDR and small mini-burst dances outside CD's
tribal blade
yeah of course
vestal escarp
Thats the worst part
tribal blade
cdr on dance is criminal
rain stratus
It's more criminal that the CDR on dance and SecTech aint the same
vestal escarp
tribal blade
the whole idea of cdr is the more you cdr = you get more casts of the spell
because you can hit it on cd
dance you cannot hit on cd
plush roost
Should just make dance 16 seconds long with a 45 second cd and be done with it
Smile
tribal blade
and you're just cdring to maintain what you need
tribal blade
Should just make dance 16 seconds long with a 45 second cd and be done with it
16 second dance goddamn
plush roost
Thats what we have during cds anyway
wild vine
It's more criminal that the CDR on dance and SecTech aint the same
Should just make it so you can sectec once per dance
plush roost
Its just back to back
tribal blade
it is!
plush roost
Noway i like sneaking in a fat 6 stack danse sec tec when using tfd in aoe
vale pine
secret tech goes brr
keen dome
the secret technique is the big crit
plush roost
secret tech goes brr
Hey fuu since you're here, is there a reason your sim has so much crit chance on the gear? Is it really that more valuable over more mastery/verse? Obv the robot knows best but i was just kinda surprised to see crit/mast neck and gloves on the top gear sim
main wing
rotation wise
because the rotation off cds is so complex 😛
plush roost
Thats so crazy to me, whats the crit % you're at currently?
hollow spear
Wait until you mess up your rotation during burst and do tank dmg
keen dome
main wing
Wait until you mess up your rotation during burst and do tank dmg
thats going to happen like 90% of the times probably
keen dome
It's a learning experience. We've all done it.
plush roost
Was doing keys on ptr with an outlaw main and yeah can confirm tank damage is real
main wing
37yo my cognitive ability is too old for rogue
plush roost
Poor guy ended floodgate with 2.2m overall
hollow spear
Thats so crazy to me, whats the crit % you're at currently?
Not ing right now, but it's quite decent
plush roost
Like 25+% decent?
hollow spear
I'm okay with having another decent stat tbh
plush roost
Off the top of ya head
hollow spear
No idea
night sparrow
Learning sub be like
keen dome
hollow spear
Sub is an experience
plush roost
Yeah I'm definitely happy to hear crit has some value on sub now compared to season 1 and df
hollow spear
It already had some value in s1 on trickster
main wing
what a simple guy wanna do, just press buttons
sub - nope.
keen dome
I'm glad my lockbox didn't lose it's upgrade levels in the season swap.
wild vine
what a simple guy wanna do, just press buttons
sub - nope.
Well simple guys have the Zug zug classes
plush roost
It already had some value in s1 on trickster
Eh sims would tell me to invest more into mast/verse i think i was at like 16% crit end of s1
vale pine
Hey fuu since you're here, is there a reason your sim has so much crit chance on...
No reason outside of some higher item level gear pieces having crit too and ofc stats from tier set.
Feel free to try and run a gear combination, a list you can use for top gear is in #tc-research.
If you find a small improvement to the profile, i happily update it.
main wing
Well simple guys have the Zug zug classes
true
cloud rover
I'm glad my lockbox didn't lose it's upgrade levels in the season swap.
wtf???
hollow spear
Yeah, but the difference between crit and vers on a piece at max was like 400 dps for me
Maybe less
Which is probably inside the error
vale pine
now that season 2 is closer, i can jinx it
my assumption that season 2 tier sets follow a similar pattern to DF was wrong
the tier set does not try to force deathstalker ahead of trickster
and i am happy about that
keen dome
vale pine
(to be clear, i made that prediction in season 1, not knowing any details about season 2)
hollow spear
Emergency hotfix in preparation as of now
vale pine
haha
steel zinc
Learning sub be like
Best advice is to know the basics rules of sub and the actual cd management is the hard part and comes with experience.
keen dome
it was a good thought though. S2 making people play the lesser used hero tree. I remember I also speculated that they would've also reworked the entire tree by then but uh
guess that's not happening.
proven plover
Rogue already got its rework 
steel zinc
Rogue already got its rework <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456>
Sub also mini rework last patch
keen dome
But we don't have a posion toggle yet.
hollow spear
Coup now increases evis damage by 50%, but does not add cp. BP buffed by 50%.
Heard it here first
main wing
talent-wise this is the best version of sub i played
vale pine
it was a good thought though. S2 making people play the lesser used hero tree. I...
Season 2 DF tryied to make us play rotten
ironically we now play rotten
steel zinc
Coup now increases evis damage by 50%, but does not add cp. BP buffed by 50%.
If they continue to buff BP deathstalker is ahead in m+
vale pine
DS is not that far behind
like
you can play it if you want, for any reason thats not dps related
keen dome
Season 2 DF tryied to make us play rotten
Damn, so we'll be playing DS in 12.1!
steel zinc
DS is not that far behind
Yeah imo cinderbrew first pull ds should be ahead
vale pine
maybe
fringe palm
ironically we now play rotten
So we're op next patch again?
vale pine
haha one can hope
worn cape
Seems normal House of Cards is already an upgrade over my heroic transmitter by 0.1%. Didn't expect that tbh.
cobalt vapor
Transmitter has a coggyl penalty too. Fuck that trinket
vale pine
Seems normal House of Cards is already an upgrade over my heroic transmitter by ...
yes, heroic transmitter isn't that good
wild hornet
So do i open the weekly cache now or on reset day, ive heard about something with item levels carrying over or smth
steel zinc
Transmitter has a coggyl penalty too. Fuck that trinket
Idk seems fine imo for the output it does
It's like boon just get good using it
worn cape
I don't mind, I am just glad to set and forget soonish
Can we craft a weapon next week already?
steel zinc
Can we craft a weapon next week already?
Yes
vale pine
One thing people forget is
any slot you carry over from seaosn one
is one slot you can't get stronger with
so if other classes can get 1 or 2% upgrades from a trinket
steel zinc
any slot you carry over from seaosn one
But also any slot the Raid can
vale pine
they get to be this 1-2% stronger
while we stay the same strength
this can make the early balance seem more off than it often is
wild hornet
Ive hear smth about the item level rising
steel zinc
But all trinkets this season are very meh.
vale pine
But all trinkets this season are very meh.
in general or is it only for us?
wild hornet
But all trinkets this season are very meh.
Its like 2 end boss trinkets n a ring for everybdamn spec
steel zinc
in general or is it only for us?
General and for us pretty extreme
wild hornet
in general or is it only for us?
Id say in general
The status effects arent that crazy
vale pine
also they nerfed eye
steel zinc
Also endboss trinket go a nerf
vale pine
maybe its not bis anymore
fringe palm
It needed a nerf
vale pine
It needed a nerf
not rly
rain stratus
What's the damage increase postpoing CB to 2nd SecTech in the opener btw?
fringe palm
Sim it at 8min for actual progress fight durations
wild hornet
This is just like cyrces circlet being still bis for half the specs
vale pine
Sim it at 8min for actual progress fight durations
fair
it might be a bit better on 8m
steel zinc
It is insane considering also 2 execute fights one armed bandit and mugzee
shy scarab
will you get dinar early on or later out in the patch?
steel zinc
will you get dinar early on or later out in the patch?
11.1.5
wild hornet
Ive heard something about mid patch
shy scarab
lul
steel zinc
So next patch everyone gets it
steel zinc
Like a quest or so
shy scarab
not gonna get the trinket unless you bid 3mill on it then
wild hornet
not gonna get the trinket unless you bid 3mill on it then
I dont think many wouldve killed gallywix
steel zinc
Also we have transmitter and we are fine
shy scarab
playing for bis not alternatives brotha
wild hornet
playing for bis not alternatives brotha
Until you get it you use what you have
steel zinc
playing for bis not alternatives brotha
Then you get it week 4-9 depending on your guild on mythic
shy scarab
I dont think many wouldve killed gallywix
i meant as a heroic version, mythic version is giga cope to get in a top 400 guild haha
wild hornet
Most would just wait for the dinars
shy scarab
yeapp for myth track for sure
wild hornet
i meant as a heroic version, mythic version is giga cope to get in a top 400 gui...
I just hope its not like spymasters
I see people rolling that shit on veteran
shy scarab
haha yea... we only got 1 with myth track spymaster lul
vale pine
will you get dinar early on or later out in the patch?
will be rly late in the patch
shy scarab
will be rly late in the patch
thanks my boy ❤️ you the best
vale pine
it is more of a end of progression system than a real catchup
haughty mural
It's like boon just get good using it
i did find boon less annoying tbh
but as you said, its a get good angle/ practice
vale pine
which i am not sure is that useful
but hey
at least we can get house of cards if it never drops during the content
boon was annoying asf
steel zinc
I find transmitter not as annoying as boon
steel zinc
Yeah but transmitter you won't die really
haughty mural
probably personal preference
keen marten
I feel like I died more often from transmitter as I died from boon
jaunty umbra
boon was miles better
glad raven
ahhh fuus graphics on the wowhead guides never disappoint
frigid sleet
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
wild hornet
So at the end do i save the weekly caches for next week or it doesnt matter and i open them now
vale pine
I find transmitter not as annoying as boon
We got used to it
i found transmitter horrible for the first weeks
wild hornet
i found transmitter horrible for the first weeks
Same until i found a proper weakaura
vale pine
you can search my message history and i still have nightmares trying to use it in a >20 player heroic ovinax kill
but once you get used to the tasks and mechanism behind it, it is easier to plan around it
and as such, not as bad
wild hornet
you can search my message history and i still have nightmares trying to use it i...
Just saw
naive zodiac
pallid prawn
What makes transmitter horrible for me, is the random 3 tasks
rocky totem
vale pine
keen dome
vale pine
What makes transmitter horrible for me, is the random 3 tasks
always fun if you kind of need a weakaura for it
glossy turtle
Is a 626 transmitter better then a heroic house of cards? Or is transmitter a thing you can get again this season. Meaning the transmitter is above 626 but a still a hero peice
mint swift
They call it the treacherous transmitter for a goddamn reason
steep raven
Is there any other decent on use buff trinket that aligns with flag/sb? (Aside from House of Cards and transmitter)
frigid sleet
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
sly shore
Is there any other decent on use buff trinket that aligns with flag/sb? (Aside f...
there is a delve trinket but it can give crit OR haste on use, so if you get haste it's not a trinket
other than that there is absolutely no other trinkets
mint swift
there is a delve trinket but it can give crit OR haste on use, so if you get has...
Haha
That’s just funny to me
“Oh boy ok pop all my CDs and.., it’s haste”
sly shore
it doesn't do nothing but
wild hornet
“Oh boy ok pop all my CDs and.., it’s haste”
The tierset wasnt gamba enough
Now trinkets too
Now im waiting for a ring that has a 50% chance it procs 10k mastery or deletes my blizzard account
steep raven
So basically until house of cards (if you don't have transmitter) you better off double passive or passive + random on use damage trinket
worn cape
the m+ trinket is decent
mint swift
Now im waiting for a ring that has a 50% chance it procs 10k mastery or deletes ...
Bro your just facing gallywix and your game freezes like when you get DCed and Battle.net uninstalls system 32 XD
worn cape
oh wait that one is passive lol
sly shore
So basically until house of cards (if you don't have transmitter) you better off...
or a 2m trinket and using it every other burst
steep raven
if 2m then you use it on pull then 3m?
sly shore
ye
steep raven
Im switching from assa, so I have scardyns. I guess gonna use that at the start
mint swift
I’m p sure saying “skardyns” could scare an assa player
alpine wraith
yea that one works although try to get any transmitter
even if it is a s1 item it is comepetitive
mint swift
Simmilar to what saying Zul does in this chat
wild hornet
Zul...zulzadar
haughty mural
Simmilar to what saying Zul does in this chat
ngl - for a moment before anniversary patch hit, i was thinking we'll get another zul treatment when they decided to remove dust
keen dome
I have grown out of my dislike for Zul. I have transcended. I have become Zulless.
keen dome
BfA made me into the soft weird manI am today. Without Zul, I'd probably be in the RWF (I wouldn't)
cobalt vapor
It wasn't an incident. Who would have thought that designing bosses while ignoring class design is problematic
short radish
so we can forgive the zul incident
no, we cannot.
haughty mural
It wasn't an incident. Who would have thought that designing bosses while ignori...
are you saying they did it on purpose so they had a reason to delete sub for the rest of that expansion ?
haughty mural
no, we cannot.
don't let em know
cobalt vapor
<:monkaHmm:752860416882901062> are you saying they did it on purpose so they had...
Yes. Sub got demonology treatment
mint swift
Ok I’m actually unaware
Ik sub was like good on zul but why
short radish
<:monkaHmm:752860416882901062> are you saying they did it on purpose so they had...
you hate it because sub not playable for an entire expansion (or 2)
i hate it because we somehow carried over the perception that we are only allowed to funnel in m+ multiple expansions even though our funnel gradually became more and more garbage
we are not the same.jpg
haughty mural
i agree on that - always annoying
"you are sub - you only funnel, right?"
cobalt vapor
Ok I’m actually unaware
Ik sub was like good on zul but why
Immortal ads and infinite combo points for eviscerate
mint swift
Ohhhh
short radish
i agree on that - always annoying
"you are sub - you only funnel, right?"
i have traumatic memories of shadowlands where the warlock casting RoF into the pack every gcd would do more damage to the target im "funneling" into with shuriken storm -> evis
haughty mural
the whole expansion or the situation of us ? 😄
short radish
por que no los dos
nah hearing funnel just sets of ptsd memories, specifically halls of atonement
where you had to funnel
apskjdlahdlkasjhdaslkdhassad
i need a drink
vale pine
i agree on that - always annoying
"you are sub - you only funnel, right?"
funnel was so bad, it was removed from subtlety
assassinaiton, enh, mage(to a degree), dh all do better funnel than we do now
(or did for a certain amount of time)
short radish
i remember shadow something burial grounds where you'd leave the target up for enhance to funnel
vale pine
its just funny
that the niche we had, is seemingly less of a problem if its on other classes/specs
because we would have seen more nerfs else
short radish
blizzard is just scared to give us the slightest drop of funnel being strong
cowards.
haughty mural
blizzard is just scared to give us the slightest drop of funnel being strong
blizzard is just scared to give us the slightest drop of funnel being strong
short radish
cowards!
short radish
actually we've been in a decent spot for the last few patches
vale pine
true
dense geode
arent we basically the same as UH dk when they were a 3minute
short radish
sub probably has the least amount of fotm
everyones always too scared to play it
outlaw has the zoomers/crackheads + pistol
assi is just comfort
alpine wraith
sub can be as fotm as our little echo chamber might expect
wont break single digits playrate
weird typo
short radish
i remember smolderon where liquid or something tried to get more of their raiders to play sub because it was so strong
and they straight up went "nah too hard"
clever delta
I would not be surprised if after final knob turning would come assa best into season
alpine wraith
sub was fine on last 3 bosses of that raid but not exceptional on last 2
so they went whatever
short radish
ever since the rework assi has been in a pretty good spot
stone patrol
ever since the rework assi has been in a pretty good spot
Its also very chill to play..comfortable in the most fights
naive zodiac
i remember smolderon where liquid or something tried to get more of their raider...
more like we had no rogue alts 
short radish
Its also very chill to play..comfortable in the most fights
problem is, it's too chill. i know you can say this about basically any rotation but assi really feels like "just press buttons and maintain shit"
and i just fall asleep
i dunno why. i can play rocket and hold down right click all day in marvel rivals
but something about assi just makes me so bored
stone patrol
I prefer this playstyle compared to outlaw..
clever delta
Opening assa channel just to see ppl crying that they may have to play sub is always hilarious
rain stratus
A tale as old as time
haughty mural
Opening assa channel just to see ppl crying that they may have to play sub is al...
they already calling for sub nerfs over there 
rain stratus
That's a glass half empty angle. Should be calling for buffs instead
void hound
What’s our preferred off piece slot ?
short radish
What’s our preferred off piece slot ?
a dagger
dense geode
terrible item
lilac wharf
I dont get it how the supercharged combo points work.. when I have full combo points and supercharged combo points then my next finisher will be used as I had 8 combo points?
quick swan
why would you want a transmitter nerf
Dogshit trinket to play around
clever delta
Nobody force you to play it
clever delta
they already calling for sub nerfs over there <:MONKAS:984237220422615090>
What can you do, asaa players are special thinking they are only spec rogue have
vestal escarp
Cant they call for sin buffs?
alpine wraith
they already know sin will get buffed no need for that
although it might be quite good anyway
naive zodiac
on a real note cdr specs suck ass for prog 
vestal escarp
Bandit has giga execute
alpine wraith
no dont do that because then we play DS
proven plover
nerf transmitter because I dont have it
vestal escarp
To do what?
clever delta
I like to kick off season with full power trinket
vestal escarp
10 more noodle dance per fight?
alpine wraith
they are kinda decent
alpine wraith
nothing like cds but you can still get some big hits
clever delta
Imexile leak the best cartel
alpine wraith
dont worry they buffed the crit dmg of builders to double kek
noggenfogger for sure
clever delta
I don't even remember what i have picked
naive zodiac
it’s still tight if you lose uptime to get the normal amount of dance uses 
in single target
alpine wraith
yep
naive zodiac
aoe who cares
alpine wraith
if you lose around 20 secs or so
you need to plan around
if you use the sec tech alone or the CB dance then have to go away
adn you lose some uptime
you wont have the cdr to double dance on cds
vestal escarp
tribal blade
good thing is this raid is a lot of encounters with adds
so cdr won't really be a big issue i'm guessing
alpine wraith
might be the other way around we will want to min max around the extra cdr
like we did on ovi nax
sub can never escape the min max
near copper
In AOE do I want to set Rupture to many targets or just the priority one?
lilac stag
If your cds are ready get the one or and go. If they’re not you can start spreading
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
jade canopy
are there anywhere sims for s1 still?
rain stratus
With current gear/tier, do we just use SecTech as 2nd finisher in 1st global inside CD's?
alpine wraith
1st global
first finisher
although you begin dance with no cps and strike sec tech sometimes
but you get the idea
rain stratus
Yea what I'm doing atm is Strike > Flag > Evis > Vanish/Strike > Rupture > Dance/symbols/trinkets > Strike > Blades > SecTech
alpine wraith
yea that is fine
ideally you blades a bit after sec tech but the diff is so minimal there is no reason to risk just remember cold blood now goes on the second sec tech on cds
rain stratus
Yea been getting used to that, thanks!
flint parrot
What's more proper sims now guys? Nightly or latest?
honest saddle
latest will always be the most up to date
nightly is just that, uploaded once a night.
bold urchin
ideally you blades a bit after sec tech but the diff is so minimal there is no r...
Is it the Same for aoe?
Strike sectech blades?
alpine wraith
yes but do blades before 1 sec you have around 0.6 secs to press it and it affects the copies
at most you get 1 extra global of blades it is nothing huge
leaden prairie
sec tech should be on charges 
alpine wraith
would kinda cool
fallow nimbus
2 charges
leaden prairie
yes
hazy breach
Charges on everything 
leaden prairie
idk i was thinking what if i hold 2 sod and 2 dance for a damage amp without cds
and then i realized
fallow nimbus
Dust but worse
leaden prairie
i wouldnt be able to double sec tech anywya
so fix the game
put sec tech on charges
no cap
alpine wraith
you do that on ovi nax
keen dome
Charges -> CDR
hazy breach
Just make it have like 8 sec cooldown but only usable in dance/stealth
leaden prairie
there is no way i get a second sec tech in st without blades
alpine wraith
that would be fire too
alpine wraith
what
leaden prairie
ovinax you aoe right so its fine
fallow nimbus
To stealth
hollow spear
but it would make the spec a bit more intuitive maybe?
night sparrow
Hey, I've seen Evi/Rupture sometimes used with 5cp while recommanded is 6. Is there situation when this applies or you should NEVER use at 5 ?
hollow spear
My feelycraft tells me that it's ok to Rupture at 5 sometimes. You shouldn't ever have to though, if you planned it well.
hazy breach
Its not the end of the world to finish at 5
But its slightly better to do it at 6 is all
hollow spear
I tend to reapply rupture above pandemic window sometimes, just to never have to press it during big cds
What's like 4 wasted seconds of rupture anyways
topaz raptor
7 billion dps
leaden prairie
random hare
i burst 7m pure st on ptr yesterday
random hare
and yoda's chat went wild
rip
we're getting a nerf
(i saved all cds+procs+every fucking shit in the planet for that burst)
hollow spear
I've seen others burst like that too a couple weeks ago already
random hare
i went in with full shadowtechnique
hollow spear
nothing new
random hare
night sparrow
Alright thx. EG you're at the very end of SB and/or SD, at 5cp, and if you use Bstab or SStrike to get 6+ you enventually use Evi out of SB/SD Window. In this case is this okay to spend Evi on a 5cp to stay in this said window ?
hollow spear
Hopefully they're too busy nerfing warrior anyways
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
random hare
?
hazy breach
Alright thx. EG you're at the very end of SB and/or SD, at 5cp, and if you use B...
It doesnt really matter
random hare
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
master baiter
idk if ur baiting
or clueless
one of the 2
hollow spear
both
night sparrow
It doesnt really matter
There is to be a better even slightly better option tho isnt it ?
random hare
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
look
at how many pages
of nerfs
@hollow spear
i missed 1 more
keen dome
What is this proving
random hare
couldnt fit in the page
random hare
What is this proving
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
keen dome
Just needlessly combative to people for no reason, so weird.
random hare
They're not going to nerf Enhance, I've given up on that dream
@keen dome
leaden prairie
random hare
thats just Colophonius
leaden prairie
what is happening guys
random hare
just ignore him lmao
keen dome
Zeross is posting
leaden prairie
guys
hollow spear
he's on his 6th energy drink or something
leaden prairie
im muting zeross
hollow spear
already did
leaden prairie
!mute @random hare
random hare
@leaden prairie he types the opposite of what you want to read, his takes are more cooked than mcdonalds eggs, hes a good player and all but hes a terrible man to talk to
vestal escarp
!mute Zeross
leaden prairie
rain stratus
Tell us something we didnt know
random hare
officially worst spec in the game according to the official tier lsit from zorthas
random hare
Tell us something we didnt know
my bad
vale pine
season 2 tier list (raid and mythic+), please don't leak
sly shore
Tell us something we didnt know
Australia is wider than the moon
rain stratus
😄 it has been feeling terrible the entirety of PTR as well, nothing happened
honest saddle
Australia is wider than the moon
This true?
night sparrow
where outlaw 🥸 🥸
lilac wharf
isnt there missing a symbols of death when using second shadow dance?
honest saddle
vale pine
you know its correct because outlaw is too bad for the list
honest saddle
I think ret might be good
who would know
since they have no simcraft apl team
I feel bad for them honestly
vale pine
isnt there missing a symbols of death when using second shadow dance?
it is easier to not have all spells shown on the image to not overload it
cobalt vapor
Mugzee and slot machine boss both have execute phases that matter. I think assassination in the raid is going to do better than people expect. Galllywix is a mystery tho
vale pine
similar you see the "opener image" also has trinkets, symbols, blades, etc
honest saddle
first boss has 2 minuteish amp windows
assassination be ok on that
but second boss has 1.5 min
sub on second for sure
vale pine
the image only highlights the move from first to second secret techniques for cold blood, but if you have ideas for improvements let me know
cobalt vapor
First boss is where it is at, true
hollow spear
how much more damage does sin actually do during execute
with how bad it sims rn, it might need perma execute
dusty totem
with how bad it sims rn, it might need perma execute
I think sim is old (from before buff)
lilac stag
eleem was estimating if its 2mins or less the specs will be close. if its a 3 min time in execute assa gonna slap it
dusty totem
or am i wrong?
hollow spear
yeah, the buffs were weird
hollow spear
eleem was estimating if its 2mins or less the specs will be close. if its a 3 mi...
so maybe relevant in mythic, probably not relevant in heroic
hollow spear
by the time the usual raider reaches the last bosses on mythic, 11.1.5 rebalancing would have happened anyways
lilac stag
yeah it's the 6th & 7th bosses
night sparrow
Is it me or the Icyveins Raid DPS Tier list is shitty ?
lilac stag
first boss will be interesting with 2min burst timer
fringe palm
Is it me or the Icyveins Raid DPS Tier list is shitty ?
Tier list = always shitty
hollow spear
DPS tier lists are always shitty imo
alpine wraith
if it is 2 mins you can triple dance that burst
just dont dance after the CB in between then you have enough cdr for that
honest saddle
its roughly 2 mins. Most guilds are getting there at 1:50 on testing
night sparrow
So answer is yes I guess 🥸
upbeat sorrel
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
now the question is is it worth it
hollow spear
I am glad I get to raid on Thursday
lilac stag
now the question is is it worth it
correctomondo
hollow spear
maybe the tech has been figured out by then
honest saddle
there are a lot of adds in that phase, hachadino and boss takes double dam. I would think anything you can send is worth
lilac stag
we're doing heroic tue, mythic thr
alpine wraith
yea i will spoil myself with the NA splits kek
oh no dont say adds
we might unleash tornado
kek
honest saddle
NO
hollow spear
hell yeah
honest saddle
NO NO NO
lilac stag
no
honest saddle
how dare you
hollow spear
he invoked the tornado
short radish
Australia is wider than the moon
honest saddle
crikeys
lilac stag
current tier DH with Blade dance is like instant funnel. its insane. deletes a platform add solo nearly
fringe palm
its roughly 2 mins. Most guilds are getting there at 1:50 on testing
You can get there by 1.30min but it lasts 45sec so timing doesn't really matter
honest saddle
would be amazing if we got there at 1:30
alpine wraith
that is cool
if it lasts 45 secs we might be able to fit 4 dances
sad that the boss is kinda easy
so it will die in like 5 pulls
but hey
honest saddle
it can last 45 seconds if your groupl plays really well
hollow spear
and if they dont?
honest saddle
I have afeeling a lot of first kills gonna be like 30 seconds
alpine wraith
so that means for my raid it will last 20 secs
honest saddle
exactly.
alpine wraith
well can sneak in cds at least
honest saddle
yeah, you will get everything out
if adds get to boss and channel or whatever, it lowers the phase cd
hollow spear
just send symbols + dance around 1.20 ish, you should be ready at 1.50
if we delay flag until 1.50, we might be sitting at 2 dances for like 20-30 seconds if we don't
alpine wraith
you dont really delay dances ideally
we only can wait to see it really
because adds makes cdr weird
hollow spear
usually they make it better tho
hollow spear
kinda depends on when they spawn tho
honest saddle
I would think you send naked tech symbol at 50
and then dance tech symbols at like 1:20
and then hold for phase
alpine wraith
depends on more things
hollow spear
yeah, but superficially
alpine wraith
you would just dance at 80 secs
honest saddle
the adds dont really make it to the boss, range kind of kill them, I dunno that we will get a ton of extra cdr
alpine wraith
then you will have enough
hollow spear
with new fights it's easier for me to not have a list of 10 things to take into account in my rotation
(on top of the usual)
bold urchin
Havent played sub for a Long time is bp shit in aoe? ^^
hollow spear
you BP on 7+
rain stratus
All you need to know is that you only press BP when target count exceeds 7 🙂
hollow spear
depending on the pulls and comp, you might never use BP
void ocean
is it just me or So Tricky doesnt work on Bran
hollow spear
with a fury warrior, add count goes from many to few in the blink of an eye
at least it did
honest saddle
is it just me or So Tricky doesnt work on Bran
It did all of s1
lilac stag
is it just me or So Tricky doesnt work on Bran
target it him and it works
he's technically a pet I think
void ocean
i have my MO macro for tricks and it just gives me 30 sec buff
honest saddle
once you hit something
that will go to the full length
same thing happens in raids or anywhere else for that matter
topaz raptor
Trickings him directly from stealth on bosses is / was wonky. theyd act as tho u vanished and fully reset
void ocean
its turned on now after like 4-5 tricks
small spade
is there a sweet spot to stop pressing cd's and save for shadow blades? Assuming ST dummy fight.
alpine wraith
around 25 secs before flag comes off cd
topaz raptor
I avoid dance and sub 2 stacks of symbols use once blades / flag are within 25s.
alpine wraith
dont use sec tech/SoD dance etc
also just in case before you use flag check if dance has 1 charge and around 20 secs left of the next
depending on downtime that can affect being able to use 2 dances
so you might need to use 1 or 2 finishers extra
if you had to go to guatemala to do things
topaz raptor
I tried to sub earlier in a 12 key (mind u first time ive touched it outside 5 mins on a dummy since Smolderon prog) and i felt so awkward
small spade
hmm so, 1 dance + 20sec for recharge, got it. What about symbols? How many stacks of symbols should I typically have?
vestal escarp
!cds
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
topaz raptor
2 with 3 sooner than later coming soon, u need it for each use for sec tech during go window
alpine wraith
as you want to press flag usually you have 1 stack and 10 secs for the next
small spade
understood, thank y'all. 👏
dusty totem
Is it possible to get 3 sectech inside flag in aoe?
dusty totem
Thx thought it seemed possible
uncut grove
have you guys seen any Deathstalker sub actually pumpin on ptr on M+?
tulip gorge
is first dance actually worth playing?
swift tinsel
Yes
alpine wraith
always worth unless fight is like 7 mins+
swift tinsel
Very strong in m+ and outperforms in shorter st fights
wild hornet
always worth unless fight is like 7 mins+
So not recommended on mythic prog fights?
swift tinsel
Some dungeons will def get better mileage out of tfd
swift tinsel
But even if you just get it three or four times in a dungeon it’s worth it
alpine wraith
and i still run it there just because p1 and p3 are the boss phases
so it is still kinda less than 6 mins
swift tinsel
Maybe even two or three
alpine wraith
who knows maybe we get another sha of fear boss with 24 mins epic fight
with 8 phases again
but think blizz does not do those anymore
swift tinsel
lol needing to plan your evening around one boss fight
alpine wraith
tbh it was not super hard just annoying
that light mechanic and submerge were some of the mechanics of all time
swift tinsel
Sylvanas was bad enough, wouldn’t want anything longer than that
alpine wraith
sylvanas was not even that long just boring
swift tinsel
Sha was a spectacle fight for sure
swift tinsel
Yeah
alpine wraith
or tbh sarkareth before all nerfs
was also super intense
fearing for my life the whole fight
swift tinsel
Agreed, I think that’s more rewarding than an endurance fight
Or fighting to stay awake
prisma void
do we ever use sec tech without sod or sd?
alpine wraith
you can but you need to have the knowledge that you are getting it back before next dance or cds
so it is a very fringe case
prisma void
i see
tribal blade
usually best to do that when you know you're gonna have enough time, like when a pack is dying in M+
or you know your cds are gonna be delayed
prisma void
yeah ocasionally it happens i wondered if it was due to rotational error
tribal blade
it's generally better to err on the safe side and just hold
but if you know for a fact you can do it w/o screwing up your next cd set you're good 😉
prisma void
Yeah the window of extra cast without anything and having it back for the next go rarely happens
tribal blade
it can happen quite a lot on bosses like queen and court
because you're holding stuff for long periods of time
vale pine
tbh i think this raid has some rly cool bosses
but i don't know the exact timings or rather if they stayed the same once the raid goes live
vale pine
can't be that bad ^^
heady compass
sub or assa for raid ?
lilac stag
Whatever you like
slate lantern
outlaw, it sims the highest so clearly is the best choice no matter what
heady compass
sub then
lilac stag
Have fun!
lilac stag
<:copium:854628182104080414>
did you see the note about the item upgrade chart?
alpine wraith
has a raid cd and buff too!
alpine wraith
rally still kinda decent
lilac stag
not really
alpine wraith
maybe not if you are not in super prog low ilvl thing
but has saved many from the near 1 tap things a lot of the times
extra hp pool is kinda good if people have decent DRs to pop
alpine wraith
i wonder if any rogue players play aug
wild hornet
(
)
wild hornet
i wonder if any rogue players play aug
Probably
alpine wraith
the venn diagram would be like two very far circles
fierce cedar
Gloomblade no good?
lilac stag
No
lilac stag
…
swift tinsel
Goon Stocks Rising
vestal escarp
You might just wanna farm or luck a pacemaker
alpine wraith
it has some more competition
vestal escarp
Goonsquad goated for the meme but still a meme
alpine wraith
not really it sims quite decent
and got a bit buffed
although as everyone knows best trinket heart of azerokk
just PROC IT
swift tinsel
Ran a bunch of trinket sims last night with the nerf and Zee’s was like .1% worse than Eye at 5mins and rose from there with shorter fight times
alpine wraith
on cds
keep in mind zees also depends on where you use bl
but the diff is minimal
vestal escarp
Doest it snap haste?
swift tinsel
It summons all minions with lust
vestal escarp
You're pressing steroid on opener
alpine wraith
yea all the gooners
vestal escarp
Unless it snaps the few secs remaining of lust
swift tinsel
Would be funny if he gets hasted stabs
It’s not uncommon to have two of them out at a time outside lust
tribal blade
what exactly do all the goons do
alpine wraith
iirc they do benefit from lust but not hugely
tribal blade
ah ok so they're like pets
alpine wraith
ideally you get pacemaker to do some gnarly things
swift tinsel
The stabby guy does a FoK
alpine wraith
but thug is good
likely i will get stuck with a magnet or a delve/m+ trink for a while
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
not really i was running some sims for my day 2 or day 5 gears to plan around
what m+ etc would i want to focus
raid trinks were whatever because unless it is house or an hc one i would replace
swift tinsel
Is 11.1 droptimizer in raidbots?
alpine wraith
no idea i was doing it local
swift tinsel
I’m gonna hit ToP and hope for ring and Rookery for dagger and gloves
Still gonna craft MH
swift tinsel
Yeah that’s my prio dungeon to start
alpine wraith
the crit ring is not bad
swift tinsel
ToP is Ringed City dlc
But without Halflight troll fight
Still a pvp boss lol
Okay pushed the Dark Souls III reference enough
keen sinew
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tribal blade
hopefully ToP isn't hell on earth like it was during SL
doing that dungeon always felt like a long ass slog
vestal escarp
Nothing changed tho
vestal escarp
hazy breach
hopefully ToP isn't hell on earth like it was during SL
I saw some people from ptr saying its the mist of the season
But
tribal blade
I saw some people from ptr saying its the mist of the season
oo interesting
they did nerf a bunch of things that made that place really bad
vernal junco
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
it got nerfed somewhat
low grotto
hey 🙂 im new to rogue for this season:) is sub the way to go ? 🙂
distant night
do you guys send big cds on every pack that can live through them or tend to save them if a boss or miniboss is coming up after the pack?
alpine wraith
sub is fine
send them if pack will survive unless special situations
like depending on mini boss you can hold like the mists dragon/frog
to make the key faster
you will do less dps tho
distant night
alright i see, thank you
hollow spear
are we actually the rogue fotm or what?
vestal escarp
Until things start to really matter yes
hollow spear
until people actually play it in a raid environment I guess
vestal escarp
10% juice and good ptr numbers do that
hollow spear
and completely whiff their flag rotation
vestal escarp
until people actually play it in a raid environment I guess
Nah i didnt even mean that
tribal blade
this could honestly be a really bad situation for sub to be in
swift tinsel
its like that scene in Captain America where Anthony Mackie is jogging thinking he's doing great then gets gapped by Steve Rogers, that'll be sub once everyone gets tier
tribal blade
we're good early on, so we got no tuning, and the weaker specs get buffed and end up being better
hollow spear
its like that scene in Captain America where Anthony Mackie is jogging thinking ...
I think tier will help us survive a little longer
swift tinsel
nah just other specs have better ones
hollow spear
but after a couple of vaults and mythic early clears
swift tinsel
but that could change any day with tuning
hollow spear
and we're at the steve rogers meme
tribal blade
isn't our tier pretty decent
hazy breach
nah just other specs have better ones
Very few
tribal blade
14% is pretty good
hollow spear
it's just that they scale better with gear/stats than we do
swift tinsel
gonna juice my goons with all the versatility
lilac stag
Very few
Did you happen to run updated tier replacement / ilvl numbers?
I think I may have missed them if you did
hollow spear
I think we can already run top gear combinations?
or gear sets
4 piece is giga, so I'd assume even LFR pieces are an upgrade
swift tinsel
s2 gear should be in raidbots for gear compare
hollow spear
4 piece is giga, so I'd assume even LFR pieces are an upgrade
nvm me, LFR fully upgraded is 639 anyways
swift tinsel
did a 1:1 compare at ilvl for me with s2 tier and its 5% better which is solid
I'm only 628 though so it'll be different for others
tribal blade
yeah the new tier set effects are very beefy
rugged condor
does nimble flurry do dmg around you or the mob?
tribal blade
does nimble flurry do dmg around you or the mob?
it's like bladeflurry
vale pine
so you might not want to use that
swift tinsel
I did one at 5/5 tier and one with gloves being s1
head slot is heavy vers/haste so I lost some crit there
vs Beyond's Dark Visage
s2 gloves are heavy haste so I left that out in the sim that was higher
vs heavy crit/haste from s1 gloves
tribal blade
yeah fuu's bis list has us not using tier gloves
this is the first tier in a while we're using tier helm
swift tinsel
yeah that sim is higher from current tier to s2 by leaving gloves out
will be different for others I'd imagine
so lfr might not be a bad idea even if it caps at 639
bc the bonus itself is noice
haughty mural
so lfr might not be a bad idea even if it caps at 639
Are those lfr pieces ?
swift tinsel
yeah, I basically just did a gear compare with s2 tier at the same item level per slot as my current gear
my gear isn't maxed currently
still mostly hero track lol
obsidian cloak
!wa
swift tinsel
if you're replacing 639 s1 gear with 639 s2 tier its still an upgrade
acoustic lodge
How essential is it to have the WA that tells you the mob count?
dreamy badger
Do you have the time to count*
hazy breach
Its not the end of the world if you end up eviscerating on 7 targets anyway
dreamy badger
Just get a wa
latent finch
i just eyeball it a bit? Looks like way more then 7? lets go bp if not just do normal
hazy breach
I dont see the point in the WA as its mostly going to be irrelevant information, unless you have it hidden below 7 targets or something
swift tinsel
you'll learn what pulls have how many mobs after a while anyways
versed terrace
!wa
versed terrace
Any goods WA for a poor soul lost with sub rotation ?
sleek musk
Is it good to macro Symbols with Shadow Dance>
Feel like you would always use them together,
swift tinsel
Not really
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
shrewd shadow
What CA are yall using macros for
shrewd shadow
I haven’t been using any yet
plush roost
Is there something wrong with house of cards on ptr? Randomly it will desync from my cds even tho I have it macro'd into ShBlades
swift tinsel
not that I've ever encountered
plush roost
It was happening all day yesterday, not just to me either but the other rogue i was playing with
edgy zenith
was he playing with affixes?
plush roost
No it was 14a
plush roost
Strange, I shall experiment further
upper girder
hello everyone, in your opinion which spec will be the most viable in MM+ in patch 11.1?
next fjord
hello everyone, in your opinion which spec will be the most viable in MM+ in pat...
Yes
plush roost
All 3
edgy zenith
hello everyone, in your opinion which spec will be the most viable in MM+ in pat...
No
next fjord
Assassination will probably be the easiest if that helps
edgy zenith
If you need to know the answer to this question, you're not the kind of person that it would matter to. play what you like!
Sub is probably going to be taken in high keys if they HAD to take a rogue
next fjord
Yeah Rogue in general isn't going to be meta but we'll likely be competitive enough to take to keys and raids
upper girder
thank you for your feedback
next fjord
But our tier set looks the coolest so rogue is still the best
plush roost
Rogue will be meta, infact, it may be in every key i do this season :^)
steel zinc
Yeah Rogue in general isn't going to be meta but we'll likely be competitive eno...
Ahh you know what's meta already??
Pls tell us
plush roost
There will be no meta till 11.1.5 when they buff aug and make prot pal busted again for no reason
steel zinc
Like idk where people get the info rn everything is a good guess nothing more or less
swift tinsel
must..find..petko tier list..to..tell..me..what...to..play.....
plush roost
I mean tbh, a lot of these dungeons have insane sub rogue timers
steel zinc
must..find..petko tier list..to..tell..me..what...to..play.....
Yeah true tier lists tell me the meta
plush roost
So it could very well be meta
swift tinsel
tettles beats sub rogue so we know here it lands on his tier list
steel zinc
Just play the game you could if you want get every season with any of the 3 rogue specs title
And always one rogue was in rwf comp since sepulcher
plush roost
Ye, atrophic biggus
steel zinc
All melee seem very well tuned you can bring at a Hof level any melee 2 to fill the last spots
plush roost
Some of these fights seem melee unfriendly, but maybe when strats are refined it will be meat grinder time like nerubar
Im just excited for content to do on live
Pto week coming up
All my responsibilities taken care of
Degen gaming time
frigid latch
All melee seem very well tuned you can bring at a Hof level any melee 2 to fill ...
no they dont
steel zinc
no they dont
Cool they are. Don't come now with sims
alpine wraith
yea hof is top 200 you can bring anything
next fjord
Ahh you know what's meta already??
Five enchancement Shamans
steel zinc
Five enchancement Shamans
True what about ele?
next fjord
True what about ele?
Dead
steel zinc
yea hof is top 200 you can bring anything
Yup exactly
alpine wraith
five ele shamans seems sexy
karmic verge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
remnant buff shows promise
leaden prairie
there is no way you build again at 5 cp in dance
if i do that im insta starved
or
surely thats a cap
swift tinsel
shuriken toss rise up