What’s his name?
#subtlety
random hare
granite river
Aladdine
granite river
i dont play with him he too sweat for me
random hare
granite river
well sometimes, but usually I have a life
random hare
granite river
nah but he did say one time your dam was low, but he say this about literally everyone
random hare
random hare
nah but he did say one time your dam was low, but he say this about literally ev...
@leaden prairie rip
granite river
its either do 5.5 mil (ptr) and he would say dam good, or do anything less and hes like "their dam low"
granite river
"well yargi did 5.2 on this dungeon and this guy did 4.5 so dam low"
random hare
I think I minmax my dmg in keys really well
Didn’t expect that from him to say of all things
Rogue isn’t an overall dmg class in ptr too
bold dawn
whats best sub rouge video guide you guys know of? will 11.0.5 guides work for 11.1?
random hare
It’s more of an efficiency spec rn
Makes the key go faster but the overall isn’t high
Craziest st in the game and rly good funnel
granite river
nah i seen your keys lol you pumping
i cant iterate this enough, he does not think about things logically
granite river
i literally said to him
if you want i can play bleed build, but there will be no single target
and he said "single target doesnt matter, just overall"
granite river
ya with no KB or somewthing else ?
granite river
i have not played but saw casual play it
random hare
I don’t think I will try it
granite river
it def does big aoe/overall
random hare
Ya
random hare
I want sub buffs
Sub is op rn because everybody’s playing season 2 builds that require the new tier sets
swift tinsel
that'd be so cringe
granite river
nah i think they know
random hare
Blizzard will never understand why we’re ahead now
swift tinsel
to tune based off pre-season
granite river
^ i think they have even said in interview they wouldnt do that
random hare
nah i think they know
I wouldn’t be so confident
swift tinsel
they fucking better not
random hare
^ i think they have even said in interview they wouldnt do that
Recent one?
granite river
nah old, i could also be hallucinate
random hare
When
swift tinsel
we got tuned up bc they nerfed our tier set by 66%
random hare
U mean the recent warriors nerf?
swift tinsel
so its gonna look yuge now
random hare
Recent warrior nerf isn’t the same
swift tinsel
once others get their s2 tier and things settle out it'll be a diff story
random hare
Crit cake sucked warrior’s balls in every stream padding in m+ and sims are crazy so it appeared insanely op
Deserved nerf
Warrior will never be the class to get invited because it just doesn’t work
granite river
i feel the sims are death sentence
hidden lynx
Thank god Aug going in the bin now
swift tinsel
the 3mil ones everyone was throwing around everywhere?
random hare
Outlaw usually simmed highest in the game over the past years
swift tinsel
ptr sims are a plague
random hare
So it never was in the buff radar all the time
random hare
Thank god Aug going in the bin now
U won’t know that
Till it really happens
The meta will show up in the mid tier patch
granite river
nah its already in the community perception, at least for m+
granite river
true that tho
granite river
.5 patch notes when
native epoch
In season 1, almost all players used deathstalker in 1target. In season 2, trickster got a buff. Will trickster be used in single target too?
random hare
Yes
Trickster is around 3% ahead on st
And slightly ahead in aoe
St ( single target )
swift tinsel
they're very close rn in st with current gear but with s2 tier trickster pulls ahead
fickle mason
do yall like Ephemeral Bond(healing received by 8 percent) or Exhilerating Execution (finishing moves heal you / grant up to 10 percent shield) at 3rd line of sub tree
granite river
i didnt mind DS as sin but now i realize how buns that was
swift tinsel
darkest night just feels obtrusive for sub
random hare
Darkest night should buff blackpowder
random hare
Man it feels good to be able to play all 3 specs very well
Learning all specs is fun
Makes u a real rogue
Highly recommended
granite river
you mean all 2 specs
random hare
swift tinsel
Def prefer sub but sin isn't too bad, I'm not the biggest fan of outlaw and crackshot stuff
swift tinsel
Sub was always my fav rogue spec from when I first started playing it, dipped into outlaw a bit in BFA and late SL
native epoch
In season 1, almost all players used deathstalker in 1target. In season 2, trick...
In that case, will the detailed characteristics use the characteristics used in M+? (In 1 target)
random hare
In that case, will the detailed characteristics use the characteristics used in ...
Explain again?
I think trickster will be played in every key
swift tinsel
our talents are almost the same between 1 target and m+
random hare
If that’s your question
swift tinsel
and its always trickster
native epoch
Explain again?
I mean like "no scuples".
swift tinsel
Oh, Hero Talents do not change ever for trickster
always Smoke, Thousand Cuts, No Scruples
swift tinsel
such a sleeper talent, so strong
random hare
Remove remove
native epoch
thank u soooo much guys!
swift tinsel
remove what
native epoch
I'm so sorry. I'm a korean so my eng is poor haha
swift tinsel
I'm so sorry. I'm a korean so my eng is poor haha
You're good!
translating is always tricky
random hare
Remove the sauce inside my balls cuh
Jk
That was a Zac joke
U have to blame him
random hare
random hare
I'm so sorry. I'm a korean so my eng is poor haha
No worries
native epoch
I like rogue. but to be honest I love sub hahaha
sullen hare
U have to blame him
Nah you dealt it so you gotta smelt it
random hare
random hare
I like rogue. but to be honest I love sub hahaha
all rogue specs are nice
Outlaw needs abit of love tho
It’s really bad in my opinion
swift tinsel
bring back tornado trigger tier playstyle
sullen hare
Outlaw is getting exactly as much love as it deserves
random hare
Worst spec is outlaw for sure
I don’t want to play outlaw but ye
Definitely sub’s era
swift tinsel
I don't think there's any real direction with outlaw
its so cobbled together
tbf so are we kinda
bleak night
i cant think of a worse one
native epoch
oh don't get me wrong. sure I also like outlaw haha but my most favorite is sub😆
swift tinsel
look for specific conditions to vanish and spam bte
random hare
Playing around crit buff
swift tinsel
ss dispatch
random hare
Is cringe as fuck
native epoch
Actually I started WOW as Assasination and played OUTLAW for 4 seasons in BFA
swift tinsel
outlaw was great in bfa
sullen hare
How'd that work out
random hare
outlaw was great in bfa
Ya
random hare
S3 SF outlaw was the best in wow history
swift tinsel
some bright spots
native epoch
But I fell in love with a sub in Shadowland lol
sullen hare
nosedive since then
There was a hot moment in DF but did DF really count?
random hare
S3 SF outlaw was the best in wow history
Just to be fucked by removing 1 ability and tweaking few talents
swift tinsel
I don't know anything about DF outlaw
swift tinsel
I only really know 1 person who played outlaw in df and they used hekili the whole time
tepid trellis
In season 1, almost all players used deathstalker in 1target. In season 2, trick...
by the looks of it, trickster is gonna be the play everywhere
swift tinsel
what was so great about s3 df outlaw?
sullen hare
by the looks of it, trickster is gonna be the play everywhere
That's my read. Dave's having a bad time
native epoch
by the looks of it, trickster is gonna be the play everywhere
I think it's so nice.
swift tinsel
wym dave's feasting
tepid trellis
Stealthi feels Korean
somewhat
swift tinsel
trickster auto-lock
tepid trellis
not fluent tho
sullen hare
Bro stealthy is literally a raccoon
sullen hare
wym dave's feasting
Dave's talker*
native epoch
Do u know the language stealthi
oh why do u think like this?
swift tinsel
Oh I'm saving that snip forever
tepid trellis
i was born in korea, but live in Europe
random hare
that’s why probably
tepid trellis
day 2 day stuff yeah
tepid trellis
i kinda have to, my grandma doesent speak anything but korean
random hare
tepid trellis
so had to stick to it a bit
random hare
censi
tepid trellis
i "live" in Korea around 2-4 months out of the year
swift tinsel
the foreign languages I know have zero usefulness lol
random hare
My keyboard wanted to call u an idiot
paper iron
i learnt korean but since i didnt use it that much outside of league, i forgot most of it 
can still insult my midlaner tho
swift tinsel
german doesn't come in handy often, same with ukrainian lol
paper iron
I feel it s still cool to know other languages, it helps to understand how words are made and a bunch of history 
Latin roots mostly
swift tinsel
for sure, one of the most interesting classes I took in college was about language formation and useage
there was a section on forensic linguistics and its insane
paper iron
Must have been cool, outside of deep french, i havent really studied foreign languages. I probably would have really liked it, but young me was just a rebel
swift tinsel
I've started picking up on restaurant spanish just because of some of the people I work with lol
random hare
sullen hare
The last couple of years I learned German in school it was taught by the Latin teacher
That's how I learned just how versatile and weird loanwords can be
swift tinsel
that's what I took in middle/high school and a bit in college
I think I was like 2-3 classes from a minor
haven't spoken or written any since 2008 tho lol
sullen hare
I got a letterman jacket out of it but Texas is kind of a mess
tepid trellis
i learnt korean but since i didnt use it that much outside of league, i forgot m...
i speak 6 languages
random hare
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH
swift tinsel
tryhard
tepid trellis
and sometimes my head cant figure out which one to do
swift tinsel
do you dream in other languages
sullen hare
SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEESH
Nah you got it from the top ropes with that one
paper iron
u crazy
i just speak french , english, and some of spanish (mostly valencian because of my family)
swift tinsel
its a super cool phenomenon in polylingual folks
random hare
do you dream in other languages
sullen hare
First of all why are they all in this channel
paper iron
and actually, i dream a lot in english and luxemburgish, even tho i dont understand a shit my brain just make random words i guess
but that s just because i hear lux everyday
sullen hare
I'm deliberately excluding Zac, as I am wont to do
paper iron
outlo is dead, now we re all sub racoon
tepid trellis
i just speak french , english, and some of spanish (mostly valencian because of ...
Korean, Japanese, Cantonese, English, Danish, Swedish.
tepid trellis
a language in china
paper iron
excuse my friend zero, he s just a young dude drinking 12 redbull a hour. He s the skibidi generation
random hare
paper iron
i know he can be weird
paper iron
Korean, Japanese, Cantonese, English, Danish, Swedish.
kinda goated
paper iron
cuz that s not only latin languages, korean is kinda easy but chinese / japanese scare me so much
swift tinsel
I've heard chinese is a nightmare to learn
swift tinsel
some of the inflections are so subtle
paper iron
and it s just cantonese, add mandarin and the 1240184194 differents dialects
swift tinsel
that unless you've been hearing them all your life your ear cannot tell the difference in some cases
maiden oar
can you still do this with no dust? i havent played sub in awhile and i thought this was gone
swift tinsel
can you still do this with no dust? i havent played sub in awhile and i thought ...
nope, was a dust-only move
maiden oar
ok ty
swift tinsel
you can fit two in your flag window and one will come back up like 10 seconds after it now
swift tinsel
I wonder if its worth to not vanish in the opener and send it after flag ends
maiden oar
ty cats are so cool
maiden oar
swift tinsel
mine are sleeping in my room rn
maiden oar
yea my guy is asleep also
random hare
I wonder if its worth to not vanish in the opener and send it after flag ends
Because that’s how it’s supposed to be played
Vanish outside of cd
But
maiden oar
also do u want to refresh rupture post flag no matter what still or is there a duration where you leave it and refresh it after cds are over?
after opener i mean
swift tinsel
well the normal opener is vanish rupture then send
random hare
Vanish will not be used for strike dmg in keys anymore
It’ll be used to get first dance
tepid trellis
also do u want to refresh rupture post flag no matter what still or is there a d...
just whenever its in pandemic range
swift tinsel
I'm talking st or when you're not gonna need it for first dance value
sand ore
maiden oar
just whenever its in pandemic range
oh i mean if youre going into cds and its at like 16 seconds
swift tinsel
I checked a while ago if its worth to skip the evisc in the opener
random hare
I'm talking st or when you're not gonna need it for first dance value
Ya out of cds
maiden oar
you wanna refresh it before popping sb right
like in a similar placement as the opener?
tepid trellis
oh i mean if youre going into cds and its at like 16 seconds
yes
maiden oar
ok ty
swift tinsel
Ya out of cds
yeah but I'm talking sending vanish after flag, not before in the opener
st scenario
random hare
U can
Don’t think strike has any value to do 25% more dmg inside of cds anyway the full cp is rly good
swift tinsel
ye I feel like the premed value after flag might be better to get cdr on sectech since dance and sod are up right after flag/blades ends but sectech has a lil bit left
might toy with that
bc not eviscing in the opener is like
random hare
Cdr is king
swift tinsel
like its literally 1kdps diff at shorter fight lengths
tepid trellis
almost all of your cdr comes from dance windows
we barely generate any outside of it
random hare
Ya
swift tinsel
yeah
tepid trellis
also the vanish is like that in the opener just to insta get SnD and Rupture up
fastest way of doing it
swift tinsel
ye, idk if the snd value is worth tho since you already get 1 ub from opener strike, then 2 after sectech
random hare
Ur losing cdr if u do that too
swift tinsel
unless you get insano lucky with thousand cut reset
random hare
Ngl bloodlust feels good on sub outside of cds
tepid trellis
you are generating less ShT stacks
without SnD up
also we do actually do quite a bit of auto dmg
swift tinsel
its like 1-2% snd uptime diff
tepid trellis
which will make your 2nd sectech hit like a nuke
random hare
Stealthi isn’t a shop idk why ur trying to convince him what ur doing isn’t a big loss
Just do what gives u the most dmg or am I wrong
Hi pls sell this less
Honestly sub plays really well rn
I like the downtime management
Especially on single target when lust pops off u know that u have a free extra dance automatically
Did u guys sim pi outside of cds
Might be better
Than in cds
swift tinsel
I think I disable pi all the sims I do lol
bc we have one
and it usually goes to our dk
I think hacha said something about blessing of autumn getting value but I don't remember how good it was
random hare
Who gives autumn? holy pala only?
swift tinsel
yeah
also did they take all the undermine stuff out of the sub apl?
I don't see it anymore
solemn lance
!wa
swift tinsel
dang you can almost fit 3x sectech in your potion duration with the rushed opener
oh wait nvm you can
tribal blade
Did u guys sim pi outside of cds <:xddx:1179129101194362921>
probably not, i assume it would be better in symbols because more sht
i've gotten PI a few times in pug heroics and when you're in lust+cds+pi you get non stop shadowcraft refunds
swift tinsel
Might have to bribe our priest then lol
tribal blade
it does feel like it makes a big difference until you realize how much bigger it is for other specs 😉
who get crazy low gcds with it
swift tinsel
Hey they can keep up with me in the opener sometimes with it
I got it as arcane a few times and the insta-gcd feel is a bit much lol
proper latch
Having no transmitter sucks. Best trinkets are also not farmable. Going to be rough in the beginning.
swift tinsel
Be strong 💪
warm veldt
they'll probably nerf it again, dont sweat too much over it
swift tinsel
Maybe not the first week or two but I’m def thinking earlier rather than later
random hare
Biggest copium 2025 if u think transmitter will get nerfed again
warm veldt
yknow what, im gonna say it, im gonna say something solid for the first time in my life
a full chested, completely outta the soul prediciton
it's going to be obliterated again on tuesday
quote me
random hare
Screenshotted
swift tinsel
See I’m thinking it’ll be after the race is over
random hare
What u said
warm veldt
Screenshotted
random hare
warm veldt
this will either be goated or the biggest meme
random hare
warm veldt
wait we should do a punishment
to make it more fun
whats the punishment for being wrong
dusky mica
Should I race change to mag'har or night elf
warm veldt
you'll find me playing mage
proper latch
No good 1.5 min trinkets (except House of Cards) to line up with our burst is illegal
dusky mica
nathan 
random hare
Actually
U should wait
For s2 apl sims for races
Or ask fuu maybe he already did it
warm veldt
Leaving the discord
are you NA or EU
what if I do a full loot funnel to a leather alt of your choice for free
(mythic dungeons)
warm veldt
THIS IS THE FUN PART
kind bluff
My m+ team has been prot paly, disc, sub, Arms, ele. We finally have our time in the sun rofl. Always been able to push just fine but it feels nice to actually be in a strong position across the board.
honest saddle
For s2 apl sims for races
this is fuu stuff he did on mimiron
its on his spreadsheet, so I assume its still good?
he did it two weeks ago, so it is outdated, and doesnt included trickster buffs
and 2pc 4pc nerfs
let me try to rerun
hollow lotus
Anyone know where i can find the tier set increase spreadsheet?
honest saddle
I have screenshots to the spreadsheet, not actual links. Would also love a link to the sheet
hollow lotus
I have screenshots to the spreadsheet, not actual links. Would also love a link ...
I'd use that if it has all specs
if not no worries!
short radish
Anyone know where i can find the tier set increase spreadsheet?
its not out y et
dry plank
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
unless you want to subscribe to his patreon
honest saddle
assassination
I dont know how recent my screenshot is
but its post sub nerf
so pretty recent
random comet
Looks like a few candidates for a tuning in there
golden kelp
unless you want to subscribe to his patreon
Who is making these?
vale pine
thanks, we have a lovely community in general ❤️
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
short radish
Who is making these?
@thick quest this guy
vale pine
still quite a bit ahead of the old one
short radish
his links are on his bio
vale pine
old one was +4%
only 4 set
and around 4% for 2 set
so new 4 set bonus is at least twice as strong
i was happy i stated it like this on wowhead when writing the guide before the nerf
so i could keep that line ^^
marble ledge
Yo ngl Sub be feelin kinna spicy in M+ this week
vale pine
sub got buffed with the patch, so the damage went up
golden kelp
I imagine we'll do really well before people start getting geared from raid
jolly pasture
Is there a spreadsheet out there alrd with tier set gains for all classes?
random hare
Yo ngl Sub be feelin kinna spicy in M+ this week
Other classes are playing s2 builds that require s2 tier sets
Most ppl are clueless
honest saddle
Is there a spreadsheet out there alrd with tier set gains for all classes?
I literally linked it like 20 messages ago
jolly pasture
I just turned on discord
honest saddle
all good
jolly pasture
Wtf hunter??
golden kelp
Bm is just pure aoe
How's BM ST with a ST build compared to their m+ build? Assass suffered alot of ST when in their m+ build this season for instance
golden kelp
aighty
thin dove
so for now i guess sub is the way to go right? i think im gonna recraft my assa gear into sub gear, i have litterally 0% versa kek
alpine wraith
sub is kinda fine but assa is not horrible
golden kelp
so for now i guess sub is the way to go right? i think im gonna recraft my assa ...
My guess (and im not the best source of information) is that sub will blast hard early on due to the aura buffs/fixes we got to compensate tier set changes AT S2 FULL BUILD
thin dove
yea makes sense, will see next week, maybe i just stay assa for the start cause of my actual gear
mortal trout
i mean, its worth swapping to sub just for not have to play this stupid deathmark
steel zinc
yea makes sense, will see next week, maybe i just stay assa for the start cause ...
Doesn't really matter assa just likes itemlevel rest is pretty much irrelevant. Also both in any case like mastery.
golden kelp
also sub will defnitely be better for early keys and pretty likely for later keys aswell, not sure for later keys yet
west tide
guys the car is too hard to ride
alpine wraith
gas gaaaaaaas gaaaaaaaaaaaas
thin dove
white briar
guys the car is too hard to ride
Stop trying to steer it with the camera, just use a & d and drifting becomes ez
median nacelle
Stop trying to steer it with the camera, just use a & d and drifting becomes ez
ty tip ❤️
west tide
Stop trying to steer it with the camera, just use a & d and drifting becomes ez
ill try that!
median nacelle
sub minor changes, bug fixes and buffs feels good, im happy about them
just hope dungeons r good too lol
alpine wraith
the baseline is quite higher so most likely
median nacelle
question tho, any1 else feel like 10s feel nerfed???
short radish
because they have been
leaden prairie
guys
im scareted
sub is looking like outlaw in heroic week
maybe it get nerfed gg
keen dome
😨
keen dome
Or just become a Sub OTP and rule the world.
celest wyvern
I didnt play sub till vortex pinacle season i hope they make it great again
vale pine
sub is looking like outlaw in heroic week
don't worry other classes look stronger
keen dome
Big crits?
lucid jackal
they dont balance around M+
lucid jackal
Its the best rogue spec, but it is a rogue spec
keen dome
That's a good advert for Sub "It's the Rogue spec"
lucid jackal
2 days of logs
lucid jackal
Yeah its aight
Its the best rogue spec
U probs cant afford 2
Fury/arms look way better as something to stack
In the melee spot
cloud rover
Something has to be done and balanced
lucid jackal
Rally, more damage
cloud rover
Nerf fury
lucid jackal
ret is also absurdly broken
leaden prairie
havoc looks good aswell
lucid jackal
thats what next tier is going to be
leaden prairie
and havoc got that funnel going on
keen dome
I'm happy to see WW doing so well
lucid jackal
Random melee specs (as always) and then this tier the meme is shadow priest
leaden prairie
like say on bosses like
ansurek
wtih adds in p3
havoc must be very good
at killing them while funnelling
analog hearth
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid jackal
Idk what the spread will be next tier but yeah
U play 1 rogue
then u play all the broken melee
idk if u play 2 rogue still
vale pine
some other classes also melt anything adds
lucid jackal
Idk if its that good
vestal escarp
Saying havoc has funnel is so funny
leaden prairie
Saying havoc has funnel is so funny
its really good funnel tbf
the best type
no setup required
like you can say assa has funnel for example
but if its adds taht dies fast not really
haughty mural
quarry is still pretty good even after the fix, no ?
maiden oar
is there ever a time when its good to coup before sectech now? i know you want sectech first in blades for the cdr but if its just a regular dance and you have fazed up is coup first gaming
leaden prairie
but if its adds taht dies fast not really
while havoc is just passive cleave funneling
vale pine
a wide variaty of trasmogs, nice
celest wyvern
a wide variaty of trasmogs, nice
🙂
keen dome
Big fan of red.
vale pine
like you can say assa has funnel for example
and then there is sub funnel^^
leaden prairie
well
steel zinc
idk if u play 2 rogue still
Ngl no one simmed early gear prog with 4p. I think you can play double rogue
leaden prairie
0 funnel
leaden prairie
Ngl no one simmed early gear prog with 4p. I think you can play double rogue
Wdym
Old 4p?
I'm confused
steel zinc
Wdym
Like all sims arw with bis gear and no sims account for all specs having different gear levels
lucid jackal
Ngl no one simmed early gear prog with 4p. I think you can play double rogue
sims aren't the game
I need u guys to all realize this
steel zinc
I know
leaden prairie
Like all sims arw with bis gear and no sims account for all specs having differe...
so what
lucid jackal
Stop talking about sims like this
alpine wraith
i mean you can search all my messages
steel zinc
But I am saying that specs vary in output on different itemlevels
alpine wraith
i always talk sub will be good first week unless they nerf it for no reason because of how our gear works
and they even buffed the baseline now
steel zinc
Like some do very early on good dps and don't scale as well
steel zinc
i always talk sub will be good first week unless they nerf it for no reason beca...
Yup this
leaden prairie
Like some do very early on good dps and don't scale as well
Uh
Idk
I don't see it
Cause transmitter maybe
Sub doesn't scale differently than other specs really
lucid jackal
I mean its true but I just dont think rogue is strong enough. Itll depend on how the fights look, Nobody does burst like sub and that might matter
leaden prairie
Not in a relevant way
steel zinc
Cause transmitter maybe
Yes this for example. We are op with it but once people get house of cards they pop off
alpine wraith
it is not only transmitter but also ring and getting mythic weapon week 1 with patch to 2x it
alpine wraith
rogue will be kinda mid after some weeks
leaden prairie
Everyone is probably in the same spot as sub
steel zinc
Considering house is barely better than transmitter
Some will more then others
leaden prairie
With s1 trinket being quite good
alpine wraith
or even week 1 for RWF people because they get cracked gear
leaden prairie
Like how is assa for example
alpine wraith
so warriors will just do 200k more dps
leaden prairie
Surely skardyn doesn't fall off either
steel zinc
or even week 1 for RWF people because they get cracked gear
You will see on some bosses 2 rogues
alpine wraith
yea rogue also soaks loot no one wants
like some on use trinks
that do dmg
and daggers
alpine wraith
hey it is what it is
no one in their right mind would use the shitty ass plague magnet or the car or thug
but rogue comes to the rescue
we are prio number 23 on eye of kezan
sure it is "bis" kekw
fighting a whole battle royale for it
leaden prairie
Doesn't look that bis anymore
I think legit all trinkets are trash this season
Like outlaw has 10 trinkets simming the same
One of them is the delve trinket
alpine wraith
yea not for us because we have other decent trinks
but other specs salivate at the though of it
hence
we are on the very back burner
so once again rogue soaks other loot
maybe we see 1
median nacelle
because they have been
by how much lol
alpine wraith
Surely skardyn doesn't fall off either
gets replaced first week by delve on use or priory
short radish
by how much lol
¯_(ツ)_/¯
alpine wraith
we need the premium house of cards but tbh i dont even mind
short radish
its on wowhead somewhere
haughty mural
i do mind it
heavy compass
we need the premium house of cards but tbh i dont even mind
Seems that transmitter is better until you get myth track house of cards no?
alpine wraith
hc house of cards works too
steel zinc
Seems that transmitter is better until you get myth track house of cards no?
Hc is fine too but tbf rogues do not need it for prog
Like others should imo get it
alpine wraith
show sim or fake
what is hard to sim skardyn 639 vs priory 665 or delve on use 665
it gets railed
leaden prairie
what if other specs jsut get a m+ trinket and are good
leaden prairie
what is hard to sim skardyn 639 vs priory 665 or delve on use 665
what
i want a sim to show me that
why would transmitter stay taht good
but not other trinkets
but then sin doesnt use transmitter
like you get what i mean or
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
alpine wraith
but not other trinkets
yea on assa skardyn and transmitter get railed
because it is diff than sub
sub gets more from the power of the on use assa also gets a lot from the passive stats
vale pine
we just have all power in 90 second intervals
alpine wraith
and that 3k agi on the passive all the time is not as big
if 70% of the time your dps
is like 90% less
leaden prairie
its 2% gain for assa vs 0.5% gain for sub
i wanted a number so i went and simmed it
haughty mural
which one ?
leaden prairie
cards vs current trinket
haughty mural
ah yea
leaden prairie
but even at m+ ilvl priory is a 1% gain
and the delve one is a 0.4% gain
at like base delve ilvl
not vault delve
tropic timber
!wa
haughty mural
barren wolf
and the delve one is a 0.4% gain
do i have to fill delve vault for assa?...
sim vault delve ilvl vs hc priory
NOW
so both hc
leaden prairie
do i have to fill delve vault for assa?...
well
ideally you do ye
all 3 specs have good delves trinkets
leaden prairie
wait one sec
wild hornet
Fuck delves
remote shuttle
Guys any chance we'll be able to delay doing quest from Transmit (15s delay), get the buff and send cds to try chain-using HoC when TT buff expires (15sec of delaying quest + 15sec buffed)
To try fit 3x dances under flag
With firsts 2 sec tec buffed by TT and 3d one by HoC
alpine wraith
not worth
you are losing too many passive stats from having transmitter
maybe on a short fight or speed kill you could use that
remote shuttle
U mean for ilvl? Can be doable like w1 or w2? while we still have new champ gear mixed with s1 gear?
alpine wraith
possibly if fight is short but keep in mind it would be very annoying
would need to use transmitter around 10 secs before pull
and get the quest done as pull begins
remote shuttle
Ye, u think enough cdr on TS to do that (tfd mandatory ofc to try that)
alpine wraith
you can already try it with other on uses if you are curious
there are bosses liek court where you can do that with tfd because you get enough cdr for a fourth dance thx to some storm finishers
remote shuttle
Will try do some tests so, ty hacha im curious to see if time is enough or if u need some preparation like stacking 7/14 shadowcraft stacks for more back to backs as u open cds (for some more cdr after first SecTec)
vestal escarp
its really good funnel tbf
Too much situational
Shit has to die before the prio mob
And the extra glaives you throw are not that bursty
Alrachi is a bit flatter than demonsurge
wild hornet
If im not doing enough damage in keys would that correlate to shying out on mjcds too much
I get the feel of "what if the next pack is better for these cds"
wild hornet
Ill try to be more aggressive with cds on the keys i do this season
Feels like im underusing due to fake anticipation
Or maybe my brain rotted from the 30s cds on every pack 
wild vine
Dungeons take some time, so if you delay often you are missing out on quite some uses potentially
Which you shouldnt without good reason
wild hornet
Which you shouldnt without good reason
So if i dont have a reason i should just yolo the cds
glacial stag
I would advise to hold only if u're at the very end of the pack. We have cds every 1min30 so it chains very nicely
I would send if pack is >40%
wild hornet
One of my biggest concerns would be regarding trinkets and flag
I.e. an imaginary pack without a prio target
wild vine
So if i dont have a reason i should just yolo the cds
I would always risk it until you can accurately judge, unless there is something coming that you definitely need CDs for
wild hornet
I would always risk it until you can accurately judge, unless there is something...
Like boss after trash?
Or a very prio target sfter
wild vine
If its a boss where you definitely need the damage because it has some eww mechanic
Or a big pull where you need all the damage to make it work
wild hornet
"eww mechanic" which mechanic isnt like that
Theo nly mech i was fine with was the gb tentacles
Cuz i can avoid the knockback and then use wts
wild vine
Eww mechanic as in you want it dead fast because you might struggle otherwise
wild hornet
I feel like thats pretty much on most bosses
haughty mural
davyn is referring to smth like totems in brackenhide
haughty mural
The bird in academy was a popular example at some point
or that
wild hornet
Fair enough
I mean on the higher keys most mechs feel yucky
Theyre kicking the healers kneecaps
wild vine
Definitely, but the bosses I meant are those where you think about wanting BL on or potentially even use it on them
NW 3rd boss
Stuff like that
wild hornet
Definitely, but the bosses I meant are those where you think about wanting BL on...
Yeah i understood what u meant, just wanted to share that i dont like the boss mechs
On how many mobs roughly do you send at least minor cds
Since ive been in pulls with one scarab
That takes ages
wild vine
I kinda liked the DF dungeon bosses tbh
wild vine
On how many mobs roughly do you send at least minor cds
I use them based on how long I think the pull takes
If it survives the minor CDs, I just send them
wild hornet
If it survives the minor CDs, I just send them
In these scenarios does it make more sense to just send a sod or sdance/sod even sectec
haughty mural
yea you defo help with sending a dance instead of backstabbing if takes that long
or yell at your team to just kill it so you can go big on the pull after
wild hornet
or yell at your team to just kill it so you can go big on the pull after
Oh i tried that once
I got kicked when we killed trash
Xd
wild hornet
i mean you should only yell at your team if you are premade
There was some backstory to this
But ill js swipe it under the rug
Also i never managed to get in premades, always full
I quit s1 keys when i wasted my entire saturday for 1/2 bricked keys
pale python
what Two + Four set exacly means in simulationcraft sheet?
tidal marsh
It's just 4pc, I'm pretty sure
It's just a bit redundant, 'cause having 4pc automatically means you have 2pc of the same tier set anyway.
pale python
aaaa ok, just wanted to be sure 🙂
serene moat
Okay so I got the openers down on target dummies, doing the rotation, but once the cooldowns start coming back, and symbols and dance start capping I am so utterly clueless as to what to do then, just wait for all cooldowns to come back and redo the opener?😅
haughty mural
well baseline spec got buffed 
vestal escarp
Bro theres some logs from 11.1 palace
Sub rogues with 47% crit on evis
Finally the higher logs population will highlight how silly rng is on this
leaden prairie
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1tqYygtiosvG8LYLGm421J
WTF WTF NERF SUB
vestal escarp
Yup
spiral pagoda
fluffy pillow 
cobalt cedar
Is there anyway to get around all the downtime on sub? It makes me want to just keep playing assa. New to rogue btw
sly shore
it tries to align 2nd symbols with 1st or 2nd finisher
but it's doing it with 3rd finisher here
which is definitely a slight loss
and there is no cd to align it with
vestal escarp
Guess the sample pull did just that
sly shore
it's holding cb so it's always up
it's sectech cd that it's holding for
but maybe the sod on coup + evis is more than evis + sectechCB
although I doubt that very much
vestal escarp
Thats defo not optimal
wild vine
Sub is the CD spec
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
vestal escarp
But again i guess that pull lucksacked something elsewhere and ended up in the middle
sly shore
there it is
well as people can make a better decision
move the dance if possible or sod
easy enough
cobalt cedar
Maybe I just need more practice with it
sly shore
it is hard
cobalt cedar
Yeh it seems like it but it is fun inside burst windows. Then auto attack outside of it ig lol
alpine wraith
apl is fucky
i also tried moving things for better tier set things
and it was not possible without krangling cb too
leaden prairie
alpine wraith
i mean using it in between cds is like a 0.x%
but if you delay flag too much it could make you lose a cast over a fight
if you do it enough times
so on the 4-6 min spreads it can sim worse
because we also have rng on our resets for coup and sht
wild hornet
Ngl i kinda dislike the sets overall this season
golden kelp
Ngl i kinda dislike the sets overall this season
yeah seems like either you ignore it or play around it in a non-satisfying way, definitely weird
sly shore
at least we track it!!!!
alpine wraith
you can play around tier set just it is for reasons that are not dps overall
alpine wraith
you could but it will lose you dps
we can premeditate if we need to not risk dropping tier
for some moments
it is still quite decent dmg amp
cobalt cedar
Hmm ok
wild hornet
yeah seems like either you ignore it or play around it in a non-satisfying way, ...
Mfw season 2
lilac stag
Is there anyway to get around all the downtime on sub? It makes me want to just ...
You ultimately answered the solution yourself. Sub doesn’t play like most wow specs. As others have said it’s why we enjoy it. Frankly most people stop playing it after a few weeks because of how much management there is to learn or the frustration of screwing up your cds and not doing well when not on a training dummy. If you don’t enjoy it, assa is almost always a viable option with a much more palatable playstyle and learning curve for most.
fringe geyser
Sub doesnt want engeneering gear?
lilac stag
Who actually wants engineering gear?
quick swan
Really strugging with timing dances lol
lilac stag
maybe outlaw can use an engineer gun
alpine wraith
i sell engi gear quite frequently
vale pine
Really strugging with timing dances lol
think of it like this:
you want 2 dances every 90 seconds with big cds
between you use it if you use symbols/secret
once you get closer to your 90 sec cooldowns, its better to rather wait than send
lilac stag
i sell engi gear quite frequently
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a single LF helm/wrists in trade.
leaden prairie
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9YYMwdPXKWAuiY72LyeP9c
wtf is ascendance cuh
alpine wraith
well people ask to craft them
lilac stag
til
alpine wraith
wtf is ascendance cuh
weapon embellish
stacks up to 10 times and gives random stat
nerubian so it also can get amped
although a funny thing that can happen week 1
is that you get decent ilvl hero track gear in all slots that could have patch
vale pine
be ascendance, requires 2 embellishments to be good
alpine wraith
then blessed grip is better than ascendance
because you would only run 1 embellish
lilac stag
Only in ST
tulip gorge
just wait until the surprise embellishment tuning next week
alpine wraith
that would be fun if they made them finally scale with ilvl more
quick swan
think of it like this:
you want 2 dances every 90 seconds with big cds
between y...
Is there a general rule of thumb on timers where you DONT want to send another dance? like 45 sec left on 2nd dance or something
alpine wraith
yea but lens never hels you get bigger crits!
fringe palm
that would be fun if they made them finally scale with ilvl more
theyll do that, but wont announce it or change tooltips
mighty ravine
am i the only one using my stealth keybind as emergency brake ? xD
lilac stag
Is there a general rule of thumb on timers where you DONT want to send another d...
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
lilac stag
Whoops 40 seconds
vale pine
am i the only one using my stealth keybind as emergency brake ? xD
i do the same, fast dissmount
lilac stag
also if you don’t have skyfury, bad times for cdr
quick swan
So anything under 40 secs, dont send a dance and just AFK until SB etc is up?
small juniper
entirely situational
tulip gorge
afaik the rule is you send 2 dances after the first flag window, after the 2nd flag window you send one dance and one naked symbols + sec tech
then you are back to 2 dances
small juniper
u can definitely dance with 40 seconds on ur flag
wild hornet
/dance
alpine wraith
depends on cdr situation
vale pine
i think a better way to think about it is
you send 2x dance 2x symbols during your 90 sec cooldowns always
mighty ravine
i do the same, fast dissmount
in some way, i understand, gob, and security brake sound wrong on so many level... but... without a short dismount it feel horrible to stop :p
vale pine
and at least one symbols/dance/secret between
additional casts can be more dynamic
so you can to a degree decide when to use them
just don't screw yorself out of 2x dance/symbols
quick swan
Think Im timing it okay going off that, just feels wrong I guess because Im not used to it
quick swan
u can definitely dance with 40 seconds on ur flag
So you base it off flag cd rather than your 2nd dance cd?
sacred cedar
sub going nuts
small juniper
So you base it off flag cd rather than your 2nd dance cd?
just base it off whether or not u know u can get a 2nd dance during ur cds
40 seconds is more than enough
quick swan
well thats the issue im having, idk the optimal spot to know ill have 2nd dance ready haha
obviously you can wait the whole thing but
thats definitely not right
alpine wraith
i have kinda a visual aid just in case
just keep in mind some things may have changed and i still need to edit some things
small juniper
ofc it takes a while to get used to timings and knowing how much cdr u have etc
i usually just send a dance if i have around 25 seconds left on flag
proven plover
guys stop parsing sub
quick swan
Ty for this
proven plover
we will get hit
why do u be like that
hug dummy if u wanna play
get out of raid
alpine wraith
you can check the sheet in my profile but i still have to do the things for 11.1 likely
wont change many things but will do new ones just so people dont see old things still there
keen dome
get out of raid
don't worry I'll do my part and post some more 0.01 parses.
alpine wraith
time to die on pull just as you use blades
quick swan
So if Im reading this right, 60-70sec you generally just naked symbols and sec tec?
alpine wraith
with old tier yea new one i think i would move the 30 sec dance there and use the sod+sec tech after sec tech comes off cd after opener
but i havent been able to sim it well just a thing i have tried and it works to not krangle tier set stacks
but now with tier set being way weaker maybe you gamba
quick swan
I see
fallow nimbus
If it doesn't lose a cast i see no reason why it shouldn't be neutral or even a gain without losing stacks before cds
alpine wraith
should be neutral just making it do that needed me to ads some comditions to flag and sec tech
that may krangle slice or aoe
same with using one cb in the middle of in between cds time
it gets kranglier
like we know it is possible but sim does not like it messes it up one way or another
quick swan
This shit is so jarring to me hahah
jaunty heath