what
#subtlety
random hare
keen dome
I assumed
Looking at S1 dungeon loot: no sockets. And floodgate doesn't have any baked in. So I guess we'll ahve to wait and see if it's a big change or just something weird in the raid. Or still a display bug.
spark tusk
My whole point is this would be a system change to address a frustration the community has.
keen dome
Yeah
spark tusk
And for that reason I would have expected a post
Not just it to be dropped into the game unannounced
That’s what’s weird about it
If that’s the change I’m fine with it and have no problems, I’m just incredulous to a lot of information I see online
random hare
And for that reason I would have expected a post
i wouldn't
its a minimal change that has a big impact
big QoL
keen dome
Which is why a post would make a lot of sense about it
random hare
no
if they talk about vault being annoying that'll bring up new problems that they have to deal with
so they wont post about it
keen dome
I disagree. I think something like this, a major pain point with the whole, dumb system, is precisely something they'd want to talk about.
but we'll see. Could still be a display error or something weird. Hopefully it's not and they're just baking sockets onto those items in both raid and M+
spark tusk
its a minimal change that has a big impact
This would be a win for them. Just because the system they’d be talking about has other problems doesn’t mean they won’t talk about incremental changes they are making.
bleak night
im just gonna assume its a display bug until its 100% confirmed
that way im not disappointed lmao
random hare
outlaw player
shadow ermine
!wa
obtuse osprey
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
storm maple
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hollow spear
I could swear people told me that sin and sub simmed almost the same just yesterday
Not sure I'd call the values in fuu's spreadsheet "the same" (and yes, I know comparing specs' sim results isn't so straightforward :D)
vale pine
I could swear people told me that sin and sub simmed almost the same just yester...
people who tested did say they perform similar
hollow spear
I felt like sim results were pretty spot on for S1 (at least for judging how sin and sub performed, comparatively)
weird that it has shifted so much
teal hemlock
Where is new sub rotation?
hollow spear
There is none
jaunty umbra
wowhead/IV
hollow spear
I apologize for my lack of knowledge
warm veldt
Is there any turbo aoe fights in the raid? My experience pushing as sub S1 makes me feel like I'm probably just never going to BP in season 2, the prio damage is usually just way better for time/safety
hollow spear
Just had the best feeling one can have
haughty mural
but i think its annyoing and the condition should be gone nowadays
hollow spear
I deleted my Deathstalker loadout
hollow spear
a step ahead of me
red vortex
so tldr, nothing really changed this new season?
wild hornet
How does disorienting strikes work? Like is it a proc that resets the sectec cooldown
haughty mural
flat 10% less cooldown for sectec
red vortex
sounds like an easy fast WA update for this season then
wild hornet
flat 10% less cooldown for sectec
Then whats the other part supposed to mean
Didnt really understand it
Not very familiar with trickster tbf
haughty mural
when you proc unseen blade it has a cooldown
so disorienting strikes makes it that after your sectec
the next 2 unseen blade procs will not trigger a cooldown
wild hornet
Ah i see ty
haughty mural
wild hornet
Im not sure if its a tooltip issue or just skill issue atp
near rivet
they also buffed the UB reset on autohits with S&D, doesnt they? is the new proc rate any noticeable?
haughty mural
Since sectecs cooldown reduction from that node is being described in the first half of the tooltip
haughty mural
they also buffed the UB reset on autohits with S&D, doesnt they? is the new proc...
from 4 procs per minute to 4.5 procs per minute
idk if thats that noticeable - but didnt keep an active look for that on the ptr
near rivet
oh, we have an actual number, was sure this reset was more like pure rng
red vortex
!wa
haughty mural
well i just took wowhead number right now tbh
gritty gorge
Guys, can you still craft 636 for catch up?
haughty mural
gritty gorge
In other words, do crests still drop?
keen dome
I don't believe so, no.
vale pine
they also buffed the UB reset on autohits with S&D, doesnt they? is the new proc...
haven't played a lot but it seemed kinda same-ish
tribal blade
feels pretty much the same
tribal blade
i thought maybe i could feel it at first but i think it was just placebo
i'm actually a little confused why they would slightly increase the proc rate
BUT a buff is a buff 😉
near rivet
some of the procs are ususally wasted anyway, because they happen post Sec Tec or when natural 20 sec cd is about to get back
haughty mural
im also confused why they buffed builder dmg again
keen dome
We're bob the builder now.
haughty mural
but as you said, a buff is a buff and sstrike kinda trucks
tribal blade
well that one at least is a big change, they doubled that talent
haughty mural
ye
vale pine
i'm actually a little confused why they would slightly increase the proc rate
i don't mind it, might make downtime feel a bit less bad
keen dome
Yeah
vale pine
im also confused why they buffed builder dmg again
thats explainable
keen dome
And Strike is at least fun to push
tribal blade
i don't mind it, might make downtime feel a bit less bad
i agree, more procs always better
vale pine
the changes kind of remove damage from our burst windows
and move them to the baseline
we still burst high
haughty mural
but we strike only in dance
vale pine
yes
haughty mural
i mean yea i get that too
tribal blade
backstab at least does slightly more damage now
i think the 1 last change i'd like to see to trickster is put UB procs on storm
tribal blade
S2 tierset is stronger should be
hollow spear
I feel like they moved out burst damage and gave it back via tierset
tribal blade
your first dance in cds might not be as big, but 2nd dance in cds will be biiiig
hollow spear
still wondering if there's minor optimisations to be had after dropping S1 tier
tribal blade
i'm sure you can apply the rule of using only rupture and pooling sht depending on the encounter
hollow spear
and that
distant bison
anyone has a good shadowcraft weak aura ?
hollow spear
for between bursts I was thinking of waiting for coup and then going symbols + dance into coup into sectec
not sure if we can make that align without messing with the hard 90 seconds
hollow spear
yeah, that's very possible
tribal blade
i think you just play normally
haughty mural
ye i'd say just send coup nowadays
tribal blade
the small dances between cds aren't massive
haughty mural
they are there to keep you dps above your tanks
hollow spear
😦
Playing Sub is actually doomed if it underperforms vs other specs. You're low on the meters and you don't even parse high because there's only like 5 one trick ponies left 😛
tribal blade
yeah sub has been pretty hard to parse with this tier
dry plank
i got transmitter in vault but cant upgrade ahahahhaha WTF
tribal blade
i got transmitter in vault but cant upgrade ahahahhaha WTF
tradegy
dry plank
it is still +3 ilvl from HC version so but wtf really xD
haughty mural
i got transmitter in vault but cant upgrade ahahahhaha WTF
yoinked it from ts lodge
dry plank
small indie company
hollow spear
I am so glad I got a mythic transmitter
but also sad because I probably will keep that for an eternity
haughty mural
tbh
keen dome
Spaghetti strikes again
hollow spear
jesus
tribal blade
i have it already, but that's hilarious
tribal blade
thank god i have transmitter already, that would have been infuriating
dry plank
they shoudve give loot at max ilvl i guess but it is what it is
dry plank
they fuked up as usuall nothing speciall
fathom gazelle
!fuu
haughty mural
it seems not having a raid vault this week might be a blessing for my mental
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hollow spear
aye
haughty mural
I'm glad I didn't bother filling my vault this week
damn you were faster 😛
teal hemlock
For current trinkets would sending CB on first sectec be better so it is within transmitter window?
dry plank
first one were stolen by our DK 2nd one i was benched and 3rd never drops until last week of the season, Im lucky, need to go and buy lottery ticket
mighty citrus
in eleems guide it says we use improved shurikenstorm talent in trickster st? why is that friends
dry plank
with all my HUGE luck xD
tribal blade
in eleems guide it says we use improved shurikenstorm talent in trickster st? wh...
that might be a mistake, you can swap it out for shadow focus
haughty mural
For current trinkets would sending CB on first sectec be better so it is within ...
your 2nd sectec should also be in transmitter window
hollow spear
For current trinkets would sending CB on first sectec be better so it is within ...
2nd one is still in
tribal blade
but it's a super minor increase
mighty citrus
that might be a mistake, you can swap it out for shadow focus
tyty
tribal blade
you basically won't even notice talenting SF
mighty citrus
just doing the new talents right now so i dont miss anything
hollow spear
everybody hates SF
tribal blade
it was a cool spell when it was a higher %
haughty mural
improved shuriken storm lets you take EE
tribal blade
it was noticable
hollow spear
can we craft a mythic dagger week 1?
alpine wraith
first week of season 2 yes
red vortex
anyone know id of winning streak buff?
red vortex
ye found it on wowhead
iron obsidian
fuus my goat
red vortex
well logged on, updated my WA pack. now we wait for season to start
red vortex
nah just logged on since november LOL
vale pine
i am currently playing a different game, its called sublime text
the graphics suck tho and its all manual text inputs
alpine wraith
i have a cooler one it is called if it works it works
alpine wraith
an emulator for expeditions and other things for logistics sometimes i have to to change things there or give permissions it is a throwback
hollow spear
Hachadino emulates living in 1997 with this program
I think it starts playing Eurodance when you open it
sacred yarrow
:gandalfbeat:
gritty gorge
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.When macroing Dance + Strike, it wont cast strike. What am i doing wrong? 😄
alpine wraith
dont macro it
silent ruin
Wow they fixed coup de Grace slice n dice interaction
alpine wraith
they broke it years ago and works unreliably
toxic prairie
sorry if this is a dumb question but is this also where i ask cataclysm classic questions 😢
alpine wraith
if it is for sub yea otherwise there is a classic thread or other discs i think
toxic prairie
hmm is that classic for anniversary classic tho?
oh wait i see them talking about cataclysm in there i will go there :3
molten citrus
oh wait i see them talking about cataclysm in there i will go there :3
there is also classic focused discord servers linked in the pins down there if you wanna check them out 
toxic prairie
there is also classic focused discord servers linked in the pins down there if y...
thank you!!
fathom gazelle
in st do we send x3 SD's before our next rotation with flag? or only x2 sd and wait for blades and flag?
alpine wraith
2 then 1 in between
vale pine
rule of thumbs:
- 2x symbols 2x dance 2x secret every 90 secoudns with flag/blades
- symbols + dance + secret a few times (typically 2, but can vary) between the 90 secound cooldown
For in between 90 secound cooldown uses, the easiest way is to look at your secret technique cooldown.
alpine wraith
also you have 1 dance/sod you can move around
between first cds and cb and after the cb dance
sage pond
big L:
timber walrus
How important is transmitter in playing sub early s2 and prepare
huge part of your burst
very good design
fathom gazelle
kk , 1 thing im struggling with is when do u get ur cps back so u can x2 evis? like is it rng or a thing i can calc it so im prepared for it?
silent ruin
If shadow technique count exceeds or equals your max cp, you will get cp refunded
fathom gazelle
aha do u track it? coz my wa doesnt show it
silent ruin
Na, muscle memory n react to on screen cp
You're anyway gcd locked 1 second, so you can react
fathom gazelle
yeh but sometimes im used to ss alot specially during mechanics or something , will try to adjust ty
short radish
also use shadowcraft refund sound trigger
fathom gazelle
if i track it is it a dps loss if i get the stored cp's during off flag Sd?
jade urchin
having a coup animation feels so good lmao
jade urchin
life good
haughty mural
only took them half a year
umbral relic
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
crystal blaze
how is subtlety in terms of being starved for energy
jade urchin
vale pine
how is subtlety in terms of being starved for energy
slow outside of cooldowns
fast during
sacred magnet
Its not good to macro SoD with Dance right?
vale pine
its not always ideal
sacred magnet
Its because it can get desyinc with the dance cd refund?
summer peak
do you BP in 1 x SD window or 2 x SD window
alpine wraith
it is because you want to empower sec tech with it
and using it with dance might not hit the second sec tech in your cds
losing quite a bit of dmg
on it
lilac stag
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
sacred magnet
Ohhh okay got it
summer peak
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to ...
Is it super charged because we can have high danse macabre stacks? And if so are we using Storm and BP to get more stacks ?
keen dome
lmao, this rules
vale pine
alpine wraith
blizz taking the ladder out
hazy breach
that might be a mistake, you can swap it out for shadow focus
Not a mistake. SF doesnt do anything so might aswell not take it
tribal blade
Not a mistake. SF doesnt do anything so might aswell not take it
fair enough!
i actually always forget to swap it out on pure ST bosses
makes no difference anyways
covert imp
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gleaming imp
as sub, if you pull pack by pack so you have like 5 ish targets, what do we do then? just keep rapture uptime and not use black powder or shuriken storm?
Just trying to decypher the steps on wowhead as i'm hiding at work 
void ocean
we use storm tho?
tribal blade
1 cast of storm during dance as 2nd builder when there are 7+ targets
gleaming imp
storm seems recommended at 7+ targets
vale pine
storm outside of dance
tribal blade
then outside of dance use storm to build in aoe
vale pine
during dance only once on 7+
outside of dance, to repalce backstab
which does hit like a wet noodle
warm veldt
Not even a hearty wet noodle either
gleaming imp
so under 7+ targets we just ignore storm?
warm veldt
Just like, a singular rice noodle
haughty mural
so under 7+ targets we just ignore storm?
If you are in dance
gleaming imp
oooh i think it just finally clicked in my smooth brain, inside dance we just pump secret tech as the aoe spender
not sure why my brain was thinking secret tech was a dot 
tribal blade
if you have less than 7 targets :
during dance: use only shadowstrike, spend with sectec and evis (cleave with nimble flurry)
outside dance: build with storm, spend with evis
gleaming imp
if you have less than 7 targets :
during dance: use only shadowstrike, spend wi...
aye and keep up ruptures 
tribal blade
aye and keep up ruptures <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
yah apply ruptures to any target without
gleaming imp
i'm going to be such a good sub rogue this tier haven't touched it since SL
warm veldt
If you want a sort of related useful take, just focus on getting your dances and CD timings correct first, once you're comfortable there figuring out how BP and Shuriken Storm fit in will be easy
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
tribal blade
Is the nimble fazed bug fixed btw ?
think so yeah
haughty mural
Thx buddy
tribal blade
the one where nimble isn't affected by faze is what they fixed
wild hornet
i'm going to be such a good sub rogue this tier <:KEK:739953921895694417> have...
I havent touched it since df
haughty mural
That’s what I meant yep
wild hornet
Now i got swapped from ret to sub
gleaming imp
wait wait, you swap from ret? how come? isn't ret supposed to be the new golden child with the full package besides mage?
wild hornet
wait wait, you swap from ret? how come? isn't ret supposed to be the new golden ...
Yeah but my gm recruited another ret too
While i was offtanking last 2
gleaming imp
aww, sadge
wild hornet
And there were no rogues
tribal blade
Now i got swapped from ret to sub
damn you're really going from 1 end of the spectrum to the other
wild hornet
damn you're really going from 1 end of the spectrum to the other
Wdym, im still a fucking moron
void ocean
Yeah but my gm recruited another ret too
new? ret is a golden child since the beginning of time
wild hornet
keen dome
Can we replace shuirken toss with this. Just huck a brick at the enemy. Way cooler.
haughty mural
void ocean
new? ret is a golden child since the beginning of time
I missed a reply
tribal blade
Wdym, im still a fucking moron
haha i meant more so going from brain dead rotation to not brain dead rotation
wild hornet
aww, sadge
I mean i guess its not so bad cuz i need some variety
gleaming imp
I mean i guess its not so bad cuz i need some variety
yeah true
wild hornet
Prot became more fun the more i played it
gleaming imp
oh btw guys, is tornado dodo balls since we don't spec into it anymore? i'm guessing it's performing subpar or ?
wild hornet
Besides when i dropped aggro
haughty mural
Forget nado exists
wild hornet
haha i meant more so going from brain dead rotation to not brain dead rotation
Realistically i wouldve gone for assa but i despise that spec
And i like sub better
tribal blade
no point talenting nado, it's annoying and there are better options to use
gleaming imp
Forget nado exists
hazy breach
Is it super charged because we can have high danse macabre stacks? And if so are...
No, supercharged referrs to the talent "supercharger" in the class tree. We do not play around danse macabre in any way now
void ocean
"nado mass"
wild hornet
No, supercharged referrs to the talent "supercharger" in the class tree. We do n...
Did it get nerfed
Or theres just better alternatives
hazy breach
Just better alternatives
tribal blade
imagine if they put DM back to 10% per stack
gleaming imp
i'm at the point where i can currently pick rogue, feral or shadow priest for next tiers prog 
i'll be pushing keys also
wild hornet
i'm at the point where i can currently pick rogue, feral or shadow priest for ne...
Ill probably have a really fun time doing tank dps
haughty mural
Phew that’s a hard one
void ocean
imagine if they put DM back to 10% per stack
Hacha would put on his apron
wild hornet
I havent done a key higher than 5 this season on my rogue
And i almost never touched trickster
vestal escarp
It's been 6% for 3 years
haughty mural
But good that you’ll stay here
tribal blade
trickster is weird to get used to because it's not the usual storm>bp spam that we've played since SL
has a bit more going on in aoe than before
wild hornet
My brain still wants to hit nimble even if theres 12 targets
wild hornet
Sometimes that will be better for the run
You mean to funnel prio targets?
alpine wraith
when it was 10% it was worse than now
warm veldt
Mhm
haughty mural
Would be interesting what’s the loss there
gleaming imp
storm BP was fun yet degenerate gameplay, i kinda like that we have to work a bit more for it, though i do wonder how it will perform in practise against like other aoe specs this tier
alpine wraith
because it reset if you used any diff ability
tribal blade
thing is if you use BP during cds at 12 targets you're gonna do monster aoe
warm veldt
You mean to funnel prio targets?
Especially in S2 when you have fire mages and destro locks doing oodles of uncapped aoe, but no ST while they're doing it
wild hornet
The biggest problem is that id most likely arrive in this channel every 2nd day with a green parse asking wheres my bs key
wild hornet
Especially in S2 when you have fire mages and destro locks doing oodles of uncap...
True definition of born to ret forced to sub
warm veldt
Sub is a blessing, it's really tons of fun
Haven't found a spec with nearly as much active thought in keys
gleaming imp
do you guys think we'll be able to compete with the big boys this raid tier? 
wild hornet
Sub is a blessing, it's really tons of fun
Really humbling going from pink to blue parses
gleaming imp
boss mechanics seems fun imo
wild hornet
do you guys think we'll be able to compete with the big boys this raid tier? <:P...
I just thank myself for not playing healer
Seems really rough on them this tier
gleaming imp
i could never heal, i have huge respect for those who stick with it
wild hornet
One makes bars go up one makes bars go down
wild hornet
Haven't found a spec with nearly as much active thought in keys
That active thought is biting me in the ass when i overuse or underuse cds on trash
warm veldt
You'll get there
There are things outside of your control too
Other people in your group meter monkeying their CDs, tank being a psycho, etc
It's not about always being correct, it's about always making the correct decision
If you know what I mean
wild hornet
There are things outside of your control too
Yeah i mean once tank pulled like 2/3 mobs
And it took bit too long to kill
Sat there backstabbing for a good amount of time
warm veldt
That's when ya send a shadow dance and get high off of your moral superiority
wild hornet
Ill prob try off being more aggressive w cds
See if im gonna be sleeping in a tent for big pulls
Ill prob push rating w my pala n raid w the rogue
tribal blade
something that helps with doing lower keys where stuff dies really fast is to send your cds asap
not spending too much time spreading rupture
if i'm doing a weekly 10 i barely bother spreading rupture, i'll just pop cds once the pull is half gathered
wild hornet
not spending too much time spreading rupture
Thats probably my
Last fav part
Least
Since i also forget that the most
tribal blade
it's not as bad as it used to be
when there were positioning requirements
now THAT was aids
wild hornet
when there were positioning requirements
You mean where you had to go behind them specifically?
Or infront for gouge
tribal blade
You mean where you had to go behind them specifically?
rupture would only spread to the next closest target to you
so if your closest target already had rupture you would just overwrite an existing rupture
(it wasn't smart targeting)
shy scarab
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wild hornet
So rupture spreading if the trash is expected to live about 30s?
warm veldt
It's also not bad survivability to spread those ruptures if you grab that one talent that heals you off of your finishers
random comet
and if it's being gathered
warm veldt
Decent amount of throughput
tribal blade
if a trash pack is gonna live estimated 30 secs i would go into cds asap
warm veldt
But in lower keys you just take the heal Amp one anyway
wild hornet
if a trash pack is gonna live estimated 30 secs i would go into cds asap
So if its longer than that then its time to spread?
tribal blade
So if its longer than that then its time to spread?
basically the general rule is go into cds once the pull is gathered
and while the tank is gathering spread rupture
proven plover
do we take rotten atm? on wowhead its taken but on the pin from eleem theres 1/2 finality instead
wild hornet
basically the general rule is go into cds once the pull is gathered
Never had to think of that
Been spoiled w 30 sec cds this season
tribal blade
do we take rotten atm? on wowhead its taken but on the pin from eleem theres 1/2...
finality is from before the tuning, now we take rotten always
proven plover
ic thank you
minor aurora
Haven’t really been in touch watching patch notes n shit, sub rogue looking good for season 2?
warm veldt
What's your benchmark for good?
hazy breach
do we take rotten atm? on wowhead its taken but on the pin from eleem theres 1/2...
Mb couldve sworn i updated it
Its changed now, pick rotten
vale pine
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
minor aurora
What's your benchmark for good?
uh.. good point. In comparison to other classes/specs for raid/M+ I guess?
warm veldt
If you play it well in m+, you will do competitive damage with the specs that aren't the giga blast uncapped aoe specs
tribal blade
sub is blasting right now and we have a good tier set in S2, so we'll be in a decent spot
minor aurora
hell yeah
So I just need to git gud
Started running my first mythic+ dungeons the past 2 days with Guildford
bronze turret
Excited about the patch?
warm veldt
1000% this zone is the bomb
minor aurora
I’m guessing for m+ I should not be running a single target build though
warm veldt
Y'all turned on the music while you're there yet? It's so good
minor aurora
Gonna have to fix the talents soon but they’re working okay so far, for the bosses at least
tribal blade
Excited about the patch?
sub actually feels quite good going into it
i'm excited for sure
was topping meters earlier in raid
got beat on queen by our arms warr because i was fading and losing concentration
minor aurora
i can relate to that lol, end up just losing concentration and forgetting stuff mid fight
keen dome
Big purple damage, hell yeah
minor aurora
simulating can give you a rough idea of what dps you should be doing right?
tribal blade
I’m guessing for m+ I should not be running a single target build though
you swap out 1-2 talents between ST and AOE builds for sub so it's not a big deal
ruby spear
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
warm veldt
simulating can give you a rough idea of what dps you should be doing right?
I spent alot of time just now arguing with myself about this, but really we can just say the answer is yes and leave it at that
It's really just better to compare yourself to people than it is to compare yourself to scripts
But the scripts will help you understand how to make your character better, and how much better it got from something
minor aurora
Right, okay. It’s just that if I’m not maxed gear comparing my dps and stuff to others isn’t as useful
carmine plover
pretty sure this is a bug caused by lag but Coup de grace wont ever proc until i switch specs or logout. randomly happened questing
alpine wraith
yea happens sometimes
big unluck
alt f4 then log in again
blizz making us big fast ssds
sub tax
carmine plover
unluckyy
wild hornet
pretty sure this is a bug caused by lag but Coup de grace wont ever proc until i...
Same thing with spellwarding on prot
leaden prairie
minor aurora
is there much of a difference in playstyle between trickster and deathstalker?
small juniper
no
warm veldt
yes
alpine wraith
deathstalker is painful
there are some changes like being way more mindful of dance cdr
minor aurora
deathstalker is all I’ve played
alpine wraith
and if you are about to pop mark you have to prio using evis with full cps to get mark faster
minor aurora
alright
wild hornet
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
alpine wraith
also some things in aoe but that is whatever
wild hornet
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When...
Is this still valid for s2 onward
minor aurora
tbh I don’t have a single macro now that I think about it
wild hornet
Coolio
wild hornet
tbh I don’t have a single macro now that I think about it
I only have a flag trink one
Removed my sectec cb macro
minor aurora
I have one for entering stealth because I made it when I first started and it’s just there now
proven plover
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When...
ugh fuck
minor aurora
too lazy to get rid of it
warm veldt
You guys ever lay in bed on the verge of sleep and then remember that we got Coup instead of Death From Above?
tribal blade
after all the fixes to coup it's a pretty good spell
but the spell that actually replaced DfA is sectec
warm veldt
That's the tragedy of it, it could be the best spell in the universe and I'd only have eyes for DfA
wild hornet
after all the fixes to coup it's a pretty good spell
Tbh i liked the leap aspect of it
tribal blade
Tbh i liked the leap aspect of it
just had too many issues because it provided momentary immunity and you couldn't control where you landed
wild hornet
I dont see anything wrong with a momentary immunity
wild hornet
Unless its a balance aspect
tribal blade
i think the devs saw it as too problematic
which begs the question why they haven't reworked killing spree yet
wild hornet
Outlaw dev on vacation
tribal blade
damn i'm sorry cuh
hazy breach
Smh my head blud didnt take day off for patch day
wild hornet
Im at work cuh
Me when no world of warcraft
leaden prairie
Smh my head blud didnt take day off for patch day
i did
wild hornet
leaden prairie
for next week
wild hornet
Smh my head blud didnt take day off for patch day
I wouldve done the same but im left with only 14 days and another semester to cover
dry plank
new coup animation looks like warriors rampage 🙂 "new" cool animation
tribal blade
i was surprised to see it
leaden prairie
leaden prairie
i like coup sound
leaden prairie
swoosh swoosh
hazy breach
Its the same as always no?
tribal blade
i forgot there was no more charge anymore
kept trying to use it to move between packs mid dance
leaden prairie
Its the same as always no?
you seen me play trickster?
warm veldt
Coup is cool now
It's Coupl, if you will
keen dome
hah
leaden prairie
assa and outlaw dont have trickster
keen dome
The animation playing and taking priority over others is great
dry plank
Its the same as always no?
no it has sound swooash and animation around you
hazy breach
It had that before too
proven plover
assa and outlaw dont have trickster
outlaw had trickster for a couple days as a critter spec no? 
leaden prairie
outlaw had trickster for a couple days as a critter spec no? <:Cring:87940469890...
no you swapped back to fatebound after
fathom gazelle
whats the minimum cd left for flag that im allowed to go to sd before flag is rdy? 30s?
dry plank
you are probably have difficulties to determine retail vs ptr i guess
hazy breach
nope yesterday it did not have that
It did for me
leaden prairie
no!
keen dome
It wasn't remotely this clear and obivous it was couping
Normally it'd just play an evis animation fo rme
now it actually has a sound fx and animation
leaden prairie
bro im couping now !!!
wild hornet
bro im couping now !!!
leaden prairie
you guys dont know
proven plover
cooping
hazy breach
Idk maybe it takes more prio over other animations or somehting
leaden prairie
outlaw coup
hazy breach
But it absolutely had it before
leaden prairie
is crazy
warm veldt
He's a coupmer
keen dome
Idk maybe it takes more prio over other animations or somehting
it does, yeah
dry plank
it has not been animated yday, coz yday i did some dummie practice and it was not there, just 3 hits wiyh 0 animation and sound
keen dome
It did the animation if you charged with it, but in melee on a human it never did it. And just did the typical Evis spin
wild hornet
I have enough weakauras for it to be an orchestra
warm veldt
Yall play with sound effects on?
It's so you can hear those sweet WM procs
warm veldt
the music is so good
DUDE undermine music is actually my favourite WoW music in years
fathom adder
are the new swirls just standart or do i need to change something in settings?
keen dome
Standard
fathom adder
ty
keen dome
tribal blade
Yall play with sound effects on?
can't play with them off, i miss everything
leaden prairie
are the new swirls just standart or do i need to change something in settings?
well its not on every aoes
just msot new aoes
wild hornet
can't play with them off, i miss everything
True but my weakaras are loud enough
Might aswell be the only thing i jear
Hear
tribal blade
fair enough
keen dome
Found the best NPC of this patch
minor aurora
😭
vestal escarp
Found the best NPC of this patch
me
warm veldt
I feel like everyone has an uncle that looks exactly like this
gleaming imp
cool people don't look at explosions
keen dome
My cat was the cool one dodging the airstrikes
warm veldt
Apologize to him right now
keen dome
He's fine. He's been through worse, he's a powerful cat.
He can tank Ansurek poison waves
gritty gorge
I have read somewhere, that on 7 targets Evi and BP are kinda the same dmg, but guides say 7 targets is BP already?
hazy breach
I have read somewhere, that on 7 targets Evi and BP are kinda the same dmg, but ...
6 the same
7 bp better
gritty gorge
7 bp better
Ty got it
kind bluff
How did we feel yesterday?
clear osprey
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
warm veldt
How did we feel yesterday?
Pretty good, had a great sandwich with pesto on it for lunch
Weather was nice
kind bluff
Fucking beautiful weather dude
west tide
i saw something about shuriken storm at 3 targets if u had some buff but i didn’t understand cause the buff is about finishers someone help me..
hazy breach
Shuriken storm if theres more than 2 targets and youre not in dance
warm veldt
i saw something about shuriken storm at 3 targets if u had some buff but i didn’...
You're probably thinking of flawless form
Storm doesn't apply it, since storm doesn't proc unseen blade
west tide
You're probably thinking of flawless form
ya i think that’s what it was
warm veldt
Ye, you wanna make sure you have that since when it's not applied you don't have nimble flurry active, (the thing making your evisc cleave)
hazy breach
It doesnt matter much
vestal escarp
summer peak
@hazy breach is there any timings we look at for second round of cds to not use dance or Sod
proven plover
damn the updated rotation page looks so good, amazing work
fathom adder
i like how sub plays but i would like something more between cds
i miss s1 and s2 df sub
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> is there any timings we look at for second round of cds to...
!cds
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
frail swift
what's the sub st like?
fathom adder
its mostly just 1 dance between the cd cycles to reach that (?)
wild hornet
7 bp better
Do ppl in this case use mob counters of some sort
Itd be hell counting them
proven plover
can we macro cold blood to shadow blades 🤔
short radish
!guide
wild hornet
can we macro cold blood to shadow blades 🤔
I mean you use the first sblades after sectec
Which is followed by evis
So it wouldnt make sense imo
warm veldt
Do ppl in this case use mob counters of some sort
You could use a WA, but you'll also just eventually know how many mobs you're fighting once you've played enough of the season
proven plover
I thought u use SB before first sectec?
wild hornet
I thought u use SB before first sectec?
Its after the sectec
hazy breach
its mostly just 1 dance between the cd cycles to reach that (?)
Roughly something like this
proven plover
I'm confused
wild hornet
I think i remember reading something about sectec not having a big impact from sblades
hazy breach
Doesnt always work since its tied to your CPs spent, so if you spend too long time of the boss due to mechanics it might be rough
hoary orchid
how relevant are the cartels?
wild hornet
how relevant are the cartels?
Pure cosmetics
hoary orchid
thank you good sir
wild hornet
If you dont care about tmog and small stuff its whatever
tribal blade
I thought u use SB before first sectec?
you would be CBing the first dance then, we want to use CB on the 2nd dance
wild hornet
Like toys, mounts, wtc
proven plover
so this spot is incorrect on the guide?
fathom adder
@hazy breach ty!
alpine wraith
the gain is not super big although noticeable
likely fuu made a point or asterisk somewhere explaining
wild hornet
the gain is not super big although noticeable
Wasnt sblades supposed to be after first sectec
alpine wraith
for min maxing
fathom adder
do you try to use both charges between cds back to back to or does it not matter, as long as you cast both with a sectec?
vale pine
so this spot is incorrect on the guide?
it is explained if you scroll a bit down
alpine wraith
Wasnt sblades supposed to be after first sectec
it is almost the same depending on your timing it is fine to use blades around 0.6 or so after sec tech
it may let you fit another global in blades and buff the 2 shadow hits of sec tech
hazy breach
It was 0.6%. Now with the new tier set and sectech doing more its 1.2%
alpine wraith
but the gain is even more minimal
proven plover
ty guys
tribal blade
you ramp your stacks so your 2nd dance is the big juiced one
proven plover
I'm trying to find any way to justify macroing CB but I guess I just have to live with pressing it 
tribal blade
you can have 2 sectec buttons, 1 for just sectec the other for sectec+CB
warm veldt
Or one macro with a mod:shift for CB sectech
tribal blade
or that yeah
warm veldt
I take it back use mod:ctrl, mod:shift is for nerds
proven plover
lol
fathom adder
whats the reason for the storm crit talent in the pinned st build over the old energy talent? Where do you use it when playing trickster only st?
hardy dirge
how i subt actually?
hazy breach
whats the reason for the storm crit talent in the pinned st build over the old e...
The energy talent doesnt matter
warm veldt
how i subt actually?
Yeah
hazy breach
Like its 0.1-0.2% on ST and a massive loss anytime theres ever more than one target
hardy dirge
best rogue spec? like tier A?
fathom adder
okay thanks for the explanation
but where would you use storm in st? isnt that a dead point then as trickster? just trying to understand
warm veldt
best rogue spec? like tier A?
I will say yes
hazy breach
but where would you use storm in st? isnt that a dead point then as trickster? j...
Shadow focus sucks ass
It doesnt do anything
hardy dirge
is it gliched yet? or blizz fixed subt
tribal blade
talent shadow focus and you literally won't notice
warm veldt
Subtlety is always horrifically glitched
hazy breach
Its not "is imp shuriken better than shadow focus"
warm veldt
But they're always working on it
hazy breach
Its none of them do anything
So might aswell take the one that does something if theres more than 1 target
fathom adder
i get it, thank you
warm veldt
If you're not sold on the "doesn't do anything", look at the energy cost of your abilities, consider what 5% of that is equal to, then consider whether you'd actually notice that energy being missing at any point ever
(The answer is no)
vale pine
it helps a bit with energy if you play tfd
but its so minimal, your energy generation especially if you keep auto attacking is very high
hazy breach
Ye but you wouldnt play tfd in a pure ST scenario anyway
vale pine
so rly not doing much
hazy breach
And if you were, because the fight was really really short, you would almost certainly have BL on pull anyway
So the energy wouldnt be needed during tfd
rain swallow
sub rogue has to use 2 daggers right?
vale pine
yes
hazy breach
Yes
warm veldt
Holy shit it's sly cooper
vale pine
you can technically use a non dagger in offhand
BUT
you get A LOT less sht procs then
rain swallow
ty guys
vale pine
and lose a lot of damage as a consequence
wild hornet
and lose a lot of damage as a consequence
But you can get a cool gun
woeful rain
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
Is it safe?
frail swift
what's the raid single target dmg gonna be like?
short radish
above 1
short radish
tribal blade
also answers is it safe. <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
you guys might have a decent chance to kill queen with how much damage everyone is doing now
lilac stag
we got fucked with the hunter pet bug
Couldn’t free 3 webs consistently
so wasted a lot of time there. Hit p3 once so we getting there
DH funnel is insane right now
lilac stag
Good
lilac stag
Why would you put it to symbols?
haughty mural
cant even macro orc racial to symbols because of prepull tech
why would you do that
proven plover
guide said so
haughty mural
lilac stag
Blades. Not symbols
proven plover
lilac stag
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.
somber ether
any downside to using fist weapon in offhand?
alpine wraith
less dmg
warm veldt
Hurts your hand
vale pine
Blades. Not symbols
should both be fine, no?
lilac stag
Anyways. @tribal blade our havoc can nearly solo play 2 with bladedance its silly
lilac stag
should both be fine, no?
No
vale pine
oh i guess
vale pine
ill correct later
tribal blade
Anyways. <@146180393941336064> our havoc can nearly solo play 2 with bladedance ...
nice nice
alpine wraith
why's it less dam?
you get less shadow techniques procs because weapon is slower
warm veldt
why's it less dam?
less wack is less proc
alpine wraith
so you get less finishers
and less dmg overall
oh and also less poison procs
as little as they do
lilac stag
ill correct later
Same for maygher
warm veldt
Really just a bunch of less's
somber ether
i see, and if it's a big ilvl diffy? still not worth?
warm veldt
Still not worth
lilac stag
!oh
wicked joltBOT
Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.
tribal blade
i see, and if it's a big ilvl diffy? still not worth?
you'll basically be tanking your CP and energy generation
somber ether
XD
vale pine
Same for maygher
wdym?
somber ether
okay boys thank you :)
vale pine
ohh
vale pine
ye, it makes sense to state with blades
because you want the abilities during your cooldowns
*big cooldowns
lilac stag
yeye
proven plover
ok but just to make sure, sorry for asking again, I got mixed answers earlier
we SB before first sectec right? not after?
lilac stag
blessed. I have to do the scenario twice since skip doesn’t unlock til next week
haughty mural
i'd argue as beginner just make sure you sstrike first so you dont waste premeditation
lilac stag
we SB before first sectec right? not after?
Basically with it
haughty mural
or just with it ye
proven plover
I'm not a beginner, just returning after couple seasons of vacation from sub
tribal blade
we SB before first sectec right? not after?
the exact timing would be to press blades RIGHT before the clones hit
after the initial hit
solemn creek
warm wagon
Hey @vale pine , you may already know but I think you made a small typo in wowhead guide rotation page : you wrote optimzation instead of optimization in the opener header block
proven plover
the exact timing would be to press blades RIGHT before the clones hit
ah I see, thank you
lilac stag
alpine wraith
you want it to be at least 0.4 secs before the first clone hits
tribal blade
ah I see, thank you
realistically you can press blades any time after you consume premed and before the clones hit
alpine wraith
otherwise they dont get effect
lilac stag
the min max is just after
alpine wraith
need a server tick for it to work
warm veldt
Hey <@194804407706189824> , you may already know but I think you made a small ty...
Actually it's meta, fuu communicated it while using one less i, therefore optimzing it
alpine wraith
yea basically as long as it is after in a window of like 0.6 or so it is fine
vale pine
Hey <@194804407706189824> , you may already know but I think you made a small ty...
thanks, currently cooking but can check later when i am on pc.
I just pushed a update to the opener section with a big rework earlier, so i expect some oopsies from my side ^^
(also sorry for the typos)
warm wagon
Not like it prevented anyone from understanding ^^
warm veldt
Okay good night subtlety, I'm finally off work
frail swift
what are the s2 sims looking like for sub?
oak rune
No clue - the spreadsheet hasn’t changed much
lilac stag
More than 1, less than 5 million
wild hornet
otherwise they dont get effect
Then dont you just press sectec and when the hit happens u press blades
torn storm
what are the s2 sims looking like for sub?
Sub is definitely a top 3 rogue spec dw
lilac stag
play whatever you like. If you want meta enhance
oak rune
Impossible to get a straight answer here. My guess is sub is oversimming so everyone quiet as fuk
vale pine
what are the s2 sims looking like for sub?
!sheet has some early ones
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
this week sub is doing better becuse the base spec got buffed, to compensate for the overall tier set nerf. It really doesn’t matter. If you like the spec figure it out. If you don’t and hate the idea of managing multiple cds. Play one of the other two.
dawn hinge
Also transmitter being as good as it is, it makes us stronger relative to others
lilac stag
Impossible to get a straight answer here. My guess is sub is oversimming so ever...
This channel is quiet because no one plays the spec. All three specs take great pride in presenting accurate information with no hiding or sandbagging.
So kindly fuck off with that shit
lilac stag
does superthingy not reset?
Look at your cps on pull?
hazy breach
They get reduced to 2 on pull
oak rune
Your joking - all year it’s sim your gear and now sims don’t matter
torn storm
Because the content isn’t real yet
hazy breach
Your joking - all year it’s sim your gear and now sims don’t matter
Thats not what people are saying
leaden prairie
lilac stag
There’s no content kekw
hazy breach
Comparing sims between different specs to gauge balance in raid= not accurate
lilac stag
and if you’re simming for RWL just sim your gear
hazy breach
Comparing gear and talent within your spec = accurate
oak rune
Im not understanding that tbh . You are hitting the same target dummy or dummies as other specs
lilac stag
nothing changed for all three specs except minor tweaks
oak rune
It’s controlled environment - yes the environment changes in the fights
That’s essentially what a sim is
lilac stag
think we found izen
hazy breach
The amount of people/work/effort that has gone into sims vary wildly based on spec and class
And what bugs are included and which are not included vary based on spec and class
Maybe the sim has bugs that ingame doesnt have, maybe ingame has bugs simc doesnt have that people dont know about
The sims arent just magically working
It requires a lot of work
tribal blade
rogue might actually just be simming lower because our TCs put so much time into them
i would assume, so they're correcting things
lilac stag
idk. Warrior has like 3x more people working on it privately
tribal blade
while other specs aren't doing that same amount of work
keen dome
rogue might actually just be simming lower because our TCs put so much time into...
More accurately. 
lilac stag
but a full bis s2 gear load out sim is irrelevant for the week between s1 & s2.
tribal blade
my guild was talking about class discords today in raid @hazy breach @tepid trellis @vale pine and our dk mentioned the rogue one is really good
hazy breach
tribal blade
pat yourselves on the back
swift tinsel
Valid tho
lilac stag
Way to ignore @pliant topaz
lilac stag
mmhm
hazy breach
Way to ignore <@639956635300790285>
Bro is retired anyway 
But yes armin is great
keen dome
Rogue discord best discord.
tribal blade
i will miss armin rants
keen dome
So chill, so helpful
lilac stag
Retired or stunlocked by blizzard bugs?
tribal blade
it's kinda ironic that he leaves in part because of how the devs were treating sub, and then we're going into this tier looking pretty nice
shy scarab
Can you do m0 and get 636 items this week or you need to wait till next week?
lilac stag
@pliant topaz https://giphy.com/gifs/btqU9V0Z48j3in2xBu
shy scarab
Rogue cord is actually the best of em all, shaman cord is hooooorrible
lilac stag
doing wordup dirty
each discord does things a bit differently. Want it to change, get involved.
swift tinsel
This channel is far and away the most helpful from any I’ve been in
shy scarab
each discord does things a bit differently. Want it to change, get involved.
well i know, but when its soooo shit that you cant find stuff its gg
haha
lilac stag
This channel is far and away the most helpful from any I’ve been in
I think most of us understand how challenging the spec is to learn. I just want new people to actually read a guide first and ask questions about what doesn’t make sense instead of trying to yolo learn it. People put a lot of time and effort into the guides.
tribal blade
This channel is far and away the most helpful from any I’ve been in
we're a bunch of YAPPERS
keen dome
yapyapyap
keen dome
Also very accepting and helpful to less high-end players without belittling or punching down which goes really far imo
wild hornet
if you need to be spoon fed this ain’t the spec for you
What button do i bind backstab to
lilac stag
Footpedal
vestal escarp
solved all my problems
wild hornet
I have my old wheel and pedals
vestal escarp
i untalented CB
wild hornet
Ill try that
swift tinsel
Also very accepting and helpful to less high-end players without belittling or p...
This is super true compared to a lot of the channels I’ve been in over the years
vestal escarp
i just crit sectech
wild hornet
This is super true compared to a lot of the channels I’ve been in over the years
Kinda felt that aswell
Im actually considering if i should try the raid with my steering wheel
I sometimes use ad for camera turning anyway
swift tinsel
So many of them treat you like a fucking idiot if you don’t know some super nuanced thing about a spec that isn’t glaringly obvious
Or just don’t provide useful information at all
Feel very spoiled in here
lilac stag
Nuance DN
worn ivy
Sup brother how does spec feel in reality rn
lilac stag
The reality is WQs
worn ivy
lapis hatch
Sub looks really good in nerubar right now
keen dome
Fuckin cranked in raid last night
Oh, speaking of: did you find out if our parry still applies to everyone?
swift tinsel
It does!
swift tinsel
We’re still raid buffing
lilac stag
mint chocy chip ice cream for breakfast. why? Because Dave.
swift tinsel
Mmm toothpaste
lilac stag
Chocy PB nomnom
swift tinsel
I’m a sucker for the one with chocolate covered pretzel pieces and pb swirl
It’s like crack
lilac stag
a good vanilla also amazing. All the butter fat please.
swift tinsel
Chocolate and peanut butter is such an underrated flavor combo
keen dome
Kulfi -> icecream too
swift tinsel
Top 3 all time
tribal blade
i am a massive chocolate fanboy
lilac stag
watching our other rogue run assa on Queen. Rupture dmg was pretty crazy.
tribal blade
watching our other rogue run assa on Queen. Rupture dmg was pretty crazy.
was it just from the 6% buff
tribal blade
i don't remember everything sin got
lilac stag
was it just from the 6% buff
Not sure. Let me see if he was doing anything with CT too
no just rupture and caustic going ham
tribal blade
lol the rogue notes are hilariously small in the official patch notes
wild hornet
True
tribal blade
no just rupture and caustic going ham
gotcha
wild hornet
Hunter notes were a whole fucking novel
It took me so long to scroll to find my own class ones
tribal blade
to be fair all the bug fixes weren't included
jaunty heath
Sup brother how does spec feel in reality rn
Depends on the dollars spent
tribal blade
going into p3
sexy
keen dome
Surprised there isn't a noir detective questline in undermine
cloud gale
@worn ivy brother hows the boosted r1 title looking? send some pics 😍
haughty mural
lapis hatch
Don’t tell zac
lilac stag
tribal blade
damn i have strong feelings about that
lilac stag
<@391378461715070987> brother hows the boosted r1 title looking? send some pics ...
Considering @tepid trellis said knock it off. I’d be careful.
let yesterdays drama die
haughty mural
That guy didn’t even say a thing today, no?