they still strong
#subtlety
autumn flame
hazy breach
Idk we'll see
autumn flame
singular focus did 5% of my overall
steel zinc
Idk we'll see
Ok then it's more then 1%. Also horrible that tierset is still not working
hazy breach
Shadow sectech is like 16% dmg in sims, so if you were always at max stacks and it never worked the absolute max it could be would be ~2.7%
But youre not always at max stacks and it works sometimes (like 1/3 or so)
mighty citrus
for now what i could read in fuus guide is we pop blades now 1 ss after dance. why is it important to delay this one gcd and not send all together
hazy breach
You get full cp anyway from premed on that strike
mighty citrus
maybe iam missing something
iam unfortunately a person who likes macros, but ofc if they are bad i wont use
thats why iam asking
hazy breach
If you press strike with premed up you get full cp
So the blades doesnt do that much
When you could instead delay it and have blades up on eviscerates or stikes that wouldnt be giving you full cp later
hazy breach
Practically all of your damage is done in your cds
So every global matters
(its not actually all of your damage, its more like 75%ish in blades)
foggy egret
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
misty hare
so if you enter a dance window and you want to use one finisher to proc a danse stack to then use sec tec on 2nd finisher for supercharger, but a coup de grace procs after first finisher, do you send the buffed coup or sectec
hazy breach
You want to use sectech immediately
Forget the danse macabre thing, thats from before 11.0.5
turbid depot
!guide
manic island
is sub gonna be the meta spec for m+ in s2
twilit phoenix
manic island
yeah thought so
twilit phoenix
yeah thought so
It’s looking strong but there’s simply no way to know rn
Plenty of changes will prolly be made in the first few weeks of szn
manic island
like i'd prefer to play sub but if sin is just flat out better i'll play that 😐
manic island
sudden bison
How gimped am I without transmitter
hexed dagger
uninstall tbh
stoic flower
AoE/cleave outside of CDs: if flawless form is up then we're using storm to build CPs at 3+ targets, right?
young path
i wouldn't recommend using storm till your confident it will fill your combo points for the global press...
at 3 targets i'd still backstab, 1 global doing a little more dmg but also chance to proc more flawless stacks
tepid trellis
AoE/cleave outside of CDs: if flawless form is up then we're using storm to buil...
if flurry is up you just storm at 2+
hazy breach
If not in dance use storm on 2+
young path
sooo a 56k backstab, w/flurry doing 60% cleave on 3 targets...
vs a 34k storm all targets...
math
very very hard for me playing this spec, HELP
hazy breach
More cp = more eviscerates = more dances
young path
5 extra energy per cast and sounds terrible on 2+ targets... thats cra cra
tepid trellis
you need to do twice the amount of backstabs -.-
wraith sphinx
we don't care about our builders we just wanna get cool finishers out sooner
upper narwhal
Builder damage is irrelevant they exist to create combo points only
young path
you need to do twice the amount of backstabs -.-
u must have terrible luck w/shadowcraft...
small spade
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.im sorry
young path
soooooooo, you get shadowcraft procs, can do more dmg with a basic backstab, what am i missing?
5ish targets i get
upper narwhal
Backstab generates less combo points
On 2+ targets
Combo points > irrelevant builder damage
upper narwhal
Yes
young path
hope to key with ya soon
tepid trellis
it all just comes down to builder efficiency and backstab just isnt an efficient builder to press
upper narwhal
Backstab does more damage in 1 global, storm combo points does more damage over the course of the fight
It’s quite simple
young path
It’s quite simple
lol, no it isnt... but you already won, i conceded...
upper narwhal
I mean you’re arguing with robots designed to optimise damage, not with me
tepid trellis
How long does blood fury last?
if its the same as magha then yeah
deep adder
!guide
young path
I mean you’re arguing with robots designed to optimise damage, not with me
while i do admit, I have no idea how the dungeon slice APL for sims is written, but I can say with confidence it DID NOT get TFD right this season... sims significantly less than it performs when leveraged properly
So with that in mind, what else is not correct with it? (just as a general approach)
Not trying to knock anyone, just simply sharing my experience
tepid trellis
well tfd isnt right in sims, because it isnt in the sims
young path
oooooooooooo
tepid trellis
we dont have a way to make it work in Dslice yet
its probably just gonna end up being a % chance of it occuring when it moves to a new pack
young path
sooooo, when i make suggestions and get completely shit on... i get it now
upper narwhal
Yeah I’m muting this guy he’s dumb as shit good night
young path
goodnight!
molten citrus
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> did you mean to add a strike after the vanish here?
Oh ye my formatting got a bit scuffed. Ill fix it. Ty
hexed dagger
Oh ye my formatting got a bit scuffed. Ill fix it. Ty
np. same with this, missing flag at the top
upper narwhal
“Why do we do this thing”
“Because it does more damage”
“Why does it do more damage?”
30 reasons it does more damage
“No ur wrong”
young path
I mean, i offer up my SV key to see how rotations fair
hazy breach
np. same with this, missing flag at the top
Ok this one im not sure why its not showing up 
Fuck ill look into it
hexed dagger
lol you're good
young path
and in all fairness, i'm only trying to broaden the theories...
fathom sequoia
!wa
hazy breach
lol you're good
have you noticed anything else being off? 
tepid trellis
to have an actual meaningful conversation about this type of stuff, it would be a 100x more helpful if any sort of proof instead of just "feels" as we cant use that for anything, cuz it doesent reflect what we see
hexed dagger
have you noticed anything else being off? <:dracthyr_love:1002454142524067861>
i'm reading through I'll lyk. luckily I'm a copyeditor IRL
young path
to have an actual meaningful conversation about this type of stuff, it would be ...
plz let me know when you're available in game... I genuinely would like to assist... I do not have the access or smarts to even attemp anything in a sim APL
tepid trellis
and sims are gonna be a thousand times more accurate in terms of small dps increases than anything else, and its not really hard to make the sim prio one thing over another
young path
but I can show you some things that you may or may not have already thought of
or the sim for that matter
hexed dagger
have you noticed anything else being off? <:dracthyr_love:1002454142524067861>
missing flag here too
hazy breach
Yes its the same one
hexed dagger
ah gotcha
swift crest
why cant shadow dance and symbols be macros
hazy breach
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
upper narwhal
Sometimes you press dance and symbols together sometimes you don’t
tepid trellis
but I can show you some things that you may or may not have already thought of
Its what the TC channels are for, write up what ideas you have that differ from the sims or stuff you think is better, in a way that is understandable and then someone that knows apl can look at it to see if it even makes sense and maybe we find a gain somewhere
pliant topaz
or the sim for that matter
feel free to share your ideas in a clear manner with any of the green/oranges and we can see if its implementable
tepid trellis
its how all of this works
pliant topaz
or what stealthi suggested is better actually
tepid trellis
just a circle jerk of nerds with dumb ideas
pliant topaz
swift crest
Sometimes you press dance and symbols together sometimes you don’t
so i could have 1 macro keybind and 2 other keybinds for each spell
long storm
i have an obscure keybind for the pot + trinket + symbols + dance in the opener, most other times it's used separate it seems
worthy relic
just a circle jerk of nerds with dumb ideas
and a smaller circle of bigger nerds who try and sim all the dum ideas
tepid trellis
yep
i mean the amount of spamming me and Push have given Fuu over the years from our dummy testing in SL / early DF
was wild xD
paper iron
it all just comes down to builder efficiency and backstab just isnt an efficient...
are u a good builder to press on?
asking for a friend
paper iron
D:
swift crest
could have just buffed pirate and kept sub as the pvp spec
paper iron
fleeing
tepid trellis
SL/DF i probably had over 500 hours on just dummies alone
paper iron
could have just buffed pirate and kept sub as the pvp spec
real and factual, should ve given +250% aura buff to outlaw and nerf sub tier set by 666% actually
tepid trellis
back when i still had passion
swift tinsel
I do it for the bug test treasure hunt
paper iron
Same, SL i used to spam the dummies, now it s just whatever, reading a guide, pressing 3 buttons on dummies, i m ready to raid
worthy relic
SL/DF i probably had over 500 hours on just dummies alone
now we got dave and hacha testing weird stuff
well hacha has been testing stuff since way back tbh
swift tinsel
One day I will learn how to toy with the APL
worthy relic
i still wont forgive push for having me test Shadowdust in Vault
hey thats before i quit back then, i prob did a lot of those sims, i remember to do a ton of dust sims back in Aberrus
hazy breach
transmitter <:kekman:1069601603860037723>
Its not ultra bis, but it is good
paper iron
i still dont get one that s the issue, we havent seen one in guild this tier
i m playing sub and assa trinketless
swift tinsel
Hoping to get a better understanding of mimiron and apl stuff for next ptr and throw some stuff together
worthy relic
One day I will learn how to toy with the APL
how to learn APL:
copy things from other lines to try and do what u want to do
realize u want to check something that is not in other lines
try to steal the check from some sin or outlaw apl line
realize they dont check it either
read throug the github to try and find it
fail
ask chatgpt
fail
give up
ask fuu how to do it
torpid snow
If I did the entire campaign on main, do I have to do it on other alts?
hexed dagger
@hazy breach rest looks good to me
swift tinsel
I can follow a good amount of the logic for most of them
Just gotta sit down and parse it out so I know what affects what and which lines interact
hazy breach
<@212854714197344256> rest looks good to me
Good stuff
hazy breach
how to learn APL:
copy things from other lines to try and do what u want to do
r...
Ye and then realize its somehow -7% in aoe for some reason that you have no idea about
hexed dagger
two things I didnt see explicitly mentioned that I just wanted clarity on though:
-
so we are not holding onto Coup outside of dance? we're just sending it as long as fazed is up whenever we have it?
-
do we want to spend our supercharged points exclusively on sectech? meaning if during second symbols of CDs and we have to squeeze one eviscerate in before secteching, that's not okay?
tepid trellis
its quite literally trial by error
worthy relic
Just gotta sit down and parse it out so I know what affects what and which lines...
its actually just one big loop, once u get that then u kinda understood everything. u got all the call actions at the top that u loop through and each one of them calls the code sections that are below
worthy relic
Ye and then realize its somehow -7% in aoe for some reason that you have no idea...
oh yea integration is the worst part, i sometimes feel bad for fuu there
i just used to delete lines randomly cause they interacted weird with what i wanted to do, and then just post the findings with half the apl missing
hazy breach
two things I didnt see explicitly mentioned that I just wanted clarity on though...
- Ye no holding for dance
- Yes every sectech should be supercharged. So ideally you delay symbols to make sure that happens
#2 is mentioned underneath the rotation stuff but it could probably use better phrasing
swift tinsel
its actually just one big loop, once u get that then u kinda understood everythi...
Yeah, I feel pretty okay about the fundamentals of it just gotta get a bit more familiar with the actual calls themselves
swift tinsel
So I know what to modify to change what I’m interested in
hexed dagger
1. Ye no holding for dance
2. Yes every sectech should be supercharged. So ideal...
nah I think it's clear I just wanted to be super sure. seems like that timing might be a tiny bit tight depending on shadow techniques sometimes. with dance ending soon after that
lofty lance
sup boys, I'll re-clear NP this Wednesday but for pure ST like Sikran/Kyveza, should I play trickster after the changes or Deathstalker is still best?
hazy breach
nah I think it's clear I just wanted to be super sure. seems like that timing mi...
Ye
stoic flower
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to ...
Wait, sorry, just wanna clarify because judging by opener.. after the Shadow Dance, Sec tech is still on CD for another like 18 seconds. I thought sec tech should be the first finisher after triggering shadow dance?
worthy relic
So I know what to modify to change what I’m interested in
some changes are just way more scuffed then others, i rewrote the sod dance and cb line like 5 times by now trying to make it line up good with flag and outside of it. (and failed every time btw)
im sure eleem has tried more times too xd
hazy breach
Wait, sorry, just wanna clarify because judging by opener.. after the Shadow Dan...
The second dance in CDs is slightly different. Because blades and your trinket only last 16 seconds delaying your dance means your dance will be partly outside those cooldowns, which is not good
You want to make sure you supercharge sectech, but you dont need it to be the first finisher after pressing sectech, as you get 2 supercharged points
rugged condor
do i run the s2 talent set with old tier?
hazy breach
So what you would do is press dance
And then press symbols once sectech has 10s or less left
hazy breach
do i run the s2 talent set with old tier?
Its the same talents
stoic flower
Gotcha. Shit thanks again @hazy breach. Looks like you guys have been busy answering returning/new sub rogue questions haha
brisk onyx
hexed dagger
And then press symbols once sectech has 10s or less left
oh this was my confusion. thought we got one supercharged point not 2
that makes more sense
so pressing it with <10 seconds, even if you eviscerated the first one and sectech the second one, it would still be supercharged
hexed dagger
makes total sense cool
hazy breach
It would give 10 seconds of cdr to sectech
hazy breach
Maybe fuu pushed it to the guide before the change, not entirely sure
rugged condor
im glad its trickster though, deathmark management is not enjoyable
hazy breach
Most prefer trickster
swift tinsel
The One True Hero Tree
uneven scarab
lilac stag
Maybe fuu pushed it to the guide before the change, not entirely sure
Fuu pushed the original. The update is still waiting for deployment ( from what we talked about). Likely up tomorrow.
hazy breach
Ye makes sense
sand ore
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
drifting fable
im glad its trickster though, deathmark management is not enjoyable
deathmark so much comfier bro
rugged condor
the hero talent stuff, nahhhh
rugged condor
yeah when i brain off play farm and my hero talent is disabled because i didnt keep darkest night proc during ansurek/silken intermission
gn
tranquil garden
does PI let us get any extra big hits in in burst?
swift tinsel
Haste doesn't really do much for us in our burst windows
sullen hare
It does increase our damage but it's generally a waste if there's a good performer in your raid that can make better use of it. I mean unless you literally have like 6 priests in your raid
bleak night
or unless you have some bribe money
even if it isnt great on you, it means someone else doesnt get it and you look better on details
rotund obsidian
is there a good way to track cp refunds?
lofty lance
but with PI we get faster shadow technique procs right?
sullen hare
!wa
sullen hare
@rotund obsidian ^
rotund obsidian
thank you
cunning elm
Noticed 1st dance is talented in that aoe build in the pinned cessages
Didnt think that talent was very useful for M+?
tribal blade
but with PI we get faster shadow technique procs right?
yes, but it's super minor compared to what other classes get
tribal blade
Didnt think that talent was very useful for M+?
it's stronger than WM
WM hits don't count towards nimble
also having a 50% longer dance on most packs is not too shabby
warm veldt
but with PI we get faster shadow technique procs right?
for reference here - I tell my M+ group not to even care about syncing heroism with my CDs
cunning elm
Idk I dont think it is most packs. How often is there that amount of time between pulls? Not often
Remind me what is WM again?
tribal blade
weaponmaster
cunning elm
ah right
tribal blade
depends on the dungeon, like in DB you get it pretty much on every pack and boss
not sure about this next upcoming season, but you don't need it to proc very often for it to be better than WM
warm veldt
it also just heavily depends on what key levels youre doing and why.
lower keys (12-14) packs are going to die way faster, and it becomes sort of disgusting to have a super long SD
cunning elm
Oh I was talking in the context of next season
warm veldt
higher keys you should really just value flexibility for how/when your group pulls over what might technically be more damage
this will be true for every season ever
tribal blade
I only had it 8 times over the course of an entire key
right now it's on par or better than WM on ST fights at something like 3:30-4 min lengths
so you can kinda do the math from there
also it's much better than WM in aoe
cunning elm
Wow in a 4 mintue ST fight its better than WM??
im suprised 4 seconds on one SD is better than WM of the course of an entire boss fight
im not doubting you im just suprised
tribal blade
yeah i was surpised when i first heard that too
WM is just not that good unfortunately
need @hazy breach to give the exact math on it
cunning elm
even a point in Finality seems good
tribal blade
rotten is better for all purposes
got buffed to 50%
and plus you can use the 2nd charge of rotten in aoe to apply find weakness to all targets
big BP dam
tribal blade
even a point in Finality seems good
are you drfunknstein?
random hare
even a point in Finality seems good
are you drfunknstein?
swift crest
i hate this spec man
random hare
no u
swift crest
wtf is this WA
tribal blade
there was a bug where leeching poison would drop if you zoned
it's been fixed, you can delete it
swift crest
its not buffed tho when talented
this spec has to manually rupture on aoe opener?
wait it doesnt
tribal blade
you can rupture as the tank is gathering
send cds once the pull is gathered
if you're not doing a high key you kinda want to send cds asap so they'll last the entire flag duration
swift crest
i prefered the pirate hat option
clear osprey
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.mechagnome back on the menu lfg
cunning elm
So now that we have the 3 charges of symbols where are we sending them? Is it okay to send symbols without dance now?
also to build the DM stacks in SD what is okay to use? are we biulding stacks with Skuriken Storm even in single target?
cunning elm
last question: For AOE I read at 6 targets we start using black powder is that true? What about if we dont have SD up
slate lantern
There's a chart there for what to use when
tribal blade
last question: For AOE I read at 6 targets we start using black powder is that t...
eleem said evis with nimble is roughly on par with BP at 7 targets
so you might as well evis with nimble at 7 even because more prio that way
lilac stag
last question: For AOE I read at 6 targets we start using black powder is that t...
7 for BP
hexed dagger
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1uQH2cyFpJH9eVS_GC58EHYylpZM7Qtqt-CfH...
this layout stresses me out a lot
lilac stag
Welcome to Dinoland
slate lantern
Oh is that guide relevant for 11.1?
I think it should all be pretty accurate with the new patch too
twilit phoenix
hachadino is goated
cunning elm
Yeah that video from that spreadsheet he said 5 targets
steady dune
So I heard the delayed combo point refund thing was fixed, is that true?
twilit phoenix
they call him luigi with the squeegee
lilac stag
On ptr yes
twilit phoenix
they call him peanut arbuckle
lilac stag
Wait for na beta test
slate lantern
Yeah that video from that spreadsheet he said 5 targets
Oh yeah the videos and stuff are prob not super accurate I was just talking about the timers for cd usage. Best use the guides when they're updated for target count
twilit phoenix
fronteir is a goated sub rogue
tribal blade
Yeah that video from that spreadsheet he said 5 targets
5 targets right now, but nimble is getting a +10% buff so number changes next season
twilit phoenix
listen to what he says
spiral ingot
if i have a fully upgraded heroic transmitter next season how long am i holding it?
twilit phoenix
if i have a fully upgraded heroic transmitter next season how long am i holding ...
probs a sim angle, but I hear it's probably good until a heroic house of cards
slate lantern
fronteir is a goated sub rogue
No one hits those dummies in dorn like me
twilit phoenix
slate lantern
if i have a fully upgraded heroic transmitter next season how long am i holding ...
Prob fully upgrade heroic HoC
rich ibex
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
No one hits those dummies in dorn like me
Hit the tank ones. Let them fight back.
slate lantern
Hit the tank ones. Let them fight back.
The tank ones are too scared of my goblin
lilac stag
doubt
snow vapor
It seems havoc nerfs werent on the PTR yet, sub buffs were in or no?
thorn lake
why do sims show to evisc before going in the first dance on opener?
steel zinc
why do sims show to evisc before going in the first dance on opener?
Get snd
steel zinc
You strike rupture and vanish strike evis and then burst
faint thistle
Hello quick question. Rerolling to sub this tier. Not used to trickster quite yet but which is worth more... Shuriken Storm or Nimble flurry for AoE? I understand the target count depends for Shuriken Storm for CP's. But in a 5-8 target scenario would I storm > numble flurry ? in a 2-3 target nimble flurry > storm? Am I correct or am I confused
short radish
Hello quick question. Rerolling to sub this tier. Not used to trickster quite ye...
faint thistle
Doesn't really answer so much of my question for storm
short radish
!guide
short radish
faint thistle
There we go thank you
So in this scenario BP is not really much of a spammer no more vs Nimble Flurry?
only during FF windows?
short radish
you do bp in the scenarios the above guide tells you to do with the addum of the rotational changes in the pins
faint thistle
Guides guides.... I understand and I looked. But it just even confused me more about BP.
I don't understand why BP if Nimble Flurry makes things a little more fluid. BP feels like it doesn't go in rotation with trickster. I've been on AoE dummies trying to understand why even BP.
faint thistle
because of the target not being capped right?
faint thistle
Does it outweigh NF's value?
topaz cipher
Well, as of tomorrow it’s 7+
Tonight it’s 5+
Because the NF buffs aren’t in until tomorrow
faint thistle
I'm excited. Haven't played sub since S1 of DF so i'm pumped.
topaz cipher
It’s in a good spot playstyle wise IMO. I’ve enjoyed it this season
faint thistle
I really like trickster so it made me happy to come try things out. I rerolled from Aff lock i've had enough after the past 5 years of rapture exisiting.
topaz cipher
That’s fair, I mained warlock for many years. Current aff is an abomination
faint thistle
rapture gameplay pisses me off
been a warlock main since TBC pre patch when I started
so going rogue is quite new to me
appreciate the help tho Koz ty
cinder steppe
do we use cb stec on second dance cuz we want to use it on full flagg stacks?
proper latch
!coldblood
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
balmy thorn
So what is the purpose of Flagellation? Is it literally a mastery button? Tell me I'm missing something coz why tf is a capstone area talent doing like 1-2% of my overall?
Surely putting that point into Goremaws is better no?
rugged condor
mastery is great for sub, gives you a bunch of dmg
sub just layers dmg amps over eachother to do big dmg
balmy thorn
Yea I get that, but surely there are better ways to do it. this ability just feels mega awful to press
rugged condor
you care a lot more about the buff than the actual flag dmg
ngl i have never once specced into goremaws
that button doesnt do much for us
flag being on a gcd kinda sucks i agree
balmy thorn
I understand that the overall is different, I'm jsut saying that as a button to press, Goremaws must feel so much better than flag
wild hornet
Would there be any cd usage guides for default routes this seasons m+
balmy thorn
There's one day left of this season. Do you really need that?
wild hornet
There's one day left of this season. Do you really need that?
Didnt s2 launch yet
Im not talking ab s1
Already set n stone with it 
balmy thorn
Didnt s2 launch yet
S2 launches on the 4th March my friend
wild hornet
S2 launches on the 4th March my friend
Yeah i meant it as a general question if there would be such
And isnt today for like the new zone n stuff
Barely followed anything so sorry if i missed smth
brisk onyx
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
drowsy moon
vale pine
only if you play trickster
spiral ingot
Prob fully upgrade heroic HoC
ok ty @slate lantern and @twilit phoenix
tribal blade
Yea I get that, but surely there are better ways to do it. this ability just fee...
flag gives mastery to increase finisher damage on the finisher spec
makes sense to me
thorny kestrel
i've seen how good sub is in m+, but so far is it decent in ptr for raid.
meh things will change in a week
vale osprey
Only thing I fear is that our 4p gets demolished by a numbers pass
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
distant bison
during aoe is it better to symbols-shuriken-dance-tech? this way all targets have find weakness and u dont waste a global in dance window?
vale pine
roughly 14%
distant bison
so thats the way to go?
vale pine
during aoe is it better to symbols-shuriken-dance-tech? this way all targets hav...
if you play rotten
distant bison
trickster rotten yeah
sudden bison
literal last boss kill of the patch
vale pine
storm eats both rotten stacks - reference
so you want to not waste both stacks on one single storm
vale pine
literal last boss kill of the patch
easy
distant bison
is that intended or just a bug? sounds like a bug i didnt know it eats both stacks
i just read the reference damn
west tide
will we be able to recraft our already crafted spark items to add embellishes tomorrow or is that gone as well
tulip badger
@vale pine since catalyzed cloack and BoE boots both give vers/mast shouldnt we craft diferent pieces? Wowhead recomends those two. Sorry if @ was missused
vale pine
all fine
you can craft belt/bracers instead, but they also offer good options ^^
basically you want to use crafting on a slot with low impact because of the lower power level
tulip badger
Okey, thx!!
half comet
will I be able to craft tommorrow if i hold onto my enchanted gilded crests
vale pine
but as detailed in the guides
you probably want to craft a weapon first
because, more weapon damage is rly strong for mainhand
tulip badger
Yeah yeah, i saw it, weapon and later when both mythic track drops swap it, isnt it?
vale osprey
Is the 13.6% increase from Subs tier, post-nerf?
vale pine
yes
vale pine
Yeah yeah, i saw it, weapon and later when both mythic track drops swap it, isnt...
yes, basically a weapon is the best immidiate update
and you can put your embellishment on it if you want
after that its just about getting the 2nd embellishment or upgrading your weakest item slot
keen dome
I made a weapon as my first craft in S1 and am still using it now (In my OH). Def a good value first slot
tulip badger
Was thinking in weapon since i wont be myth raiding and my vault rng luck was bad in s1 and neck since i haven't founf a mast/vers one
west tide
chat it says thunderlord gem is from the drain event but it doesnt show the gem for me and i dont have it omggg
its joever
keen dome
Each event can drop two so you may need to do it twice.
obtuse osprey
!guide
west tide
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
jaunty sparrow
Do you guys think its worth tracking the new Winning Streak in 2p/4p?
thin lion
Could BE in some occasions, for example when Ur CD's are about to come Up and there IS a burn Phase or something Like that
Those extra percentages can BE useful If in a DMG amp Phase or If there IS a Mob which needs to be shut down AS fast AS possible
leaden prairie
transmitter
keen dome
Transmitter until HoC
swift crest
my skardyns is myth track and transmitter heroic
swift crest
ahh fuck
keen dome
my skardyns is myth track and transmitter heroic
Sim it yourself to see, tbh
the cursed imp telephone will not release us yet
swift crest
well im starting to pull some numbers on the target dummy anyway
recrafted some gear
tribal blade
i will be very surprised if even nerfed heroic transmitter gets beaten by 639 skardyn's
transmitter is almost a perfect trinky for sub
(if only the haste was any other stat)
vale pine
transmitter is quite good
remote shuttle
(if only the haste was any other stat)
I could kill for a transmit mh with vers in place of haste 🤣
tribal blade
I could kill for a transmit mh with vers in place of haste 🤣
would be sick!
keen dome
Time to donuts until I get kicked out of the undermine
lilac stag
i will be very surprised if even nerfed heroic transmitter gets beaten by 639 sk...
It can’t beat lfr transmitter
just waiting for another nerf to in before season starts
tribal blade
just waiting for another nerf to in before season starts
i'm hoping the nerf comes a few weeks into the season
so we have time to get something else to use
lilac stag
They already know the two outliers. I’d assume they get it before rwf.
no one knows but bliz
lilac stag
no point in screwing over last bit of progress this week
vestal escarp
no point in screwing over last bit of progress this week
guilds can still prog this week?
graceful perch
hey, guys, can someone share a new tier set tracking wa? ❤️
lilac stag
guilds can still prog this week?
Yes. Can still get CE this week
lilac stag
hey, guys, can someone share a new tier set tracking wa? ❤️
Use templates. It’s literally just a buff on the player.
hallow sigil
Yes. Can still get CE this week
Race to world last is still alive for some of us indeed 
glacial coyote
cant decide if assa or sub
untold reef
Hello. I have questions regarding the single target and multitarget rotation on wowhead.
- In single target it says you should Vanish, in multi target it isn't mentioned. Does this mean we don't Vanish in multi target?
- I am a little confused about the point when you should use Shadow Blades. In single target it is used right before Secret Techniques and after Shadow Strike. In multi target however it is used before Shadow Strike and with Shadow Dance. What is the difference? Is that important?
remote shuttle
In st you want use premed to max cp on st with a ss, on aoe if u need to full cp with a single spell u can decide fo shuriken and save vanish
keen dome
found that to be quite interessting
It's my favourite race
They're the real champions.
wheat elk
!plater D:
untold reef
In st you want use premed to max cp on st with a ss, on aoe if u need to full cp...
I see. Thanks! What about when to use Shadowblades? Does it matter if it's used with Shadow Dance or after the frst Shadow Strike after you used Shadow Dance?
tribal blade
no point in screwing over last bit of progress this week
yeah good point, there's still 1 week left of prog
remote shuttle
You will use SB to buff clones hit on SecTec
Starting from s2, not in live right now
So SB will be used same time of SecTec or right after it to benefit again from premed on your first builder in dance (second builder will benefit SB)
tribal blade
basically use blades after consuming premed and before the clones hit
any time between those 2 events
untold reef
Ok I see. Thanks again!
lilac stag
race to world last is funny
less funny when in it. Praying to roster boss first, Players brain cells second.
One more week of fury prison.
vestal escarp
Gl gl
lilac stag
First step is servers coming up before raid start. 
lilac stag
yeah good point, there's still 1 week left of prog
If I cared more about it, I’d look and see if any specs playing either trinkets were simming less after reset this week. My guess is the first nerfs stayed at or above season 1 overall sims
even with the nerf, my sub sim went up like 200k
Assa was still a net positive, just nothing exciting.
lilac stag
It always was
vestal escarp
less funny when in it. Praying to roster boss first, Players brain cells second....
isnt your guild in a position to ask for help of better players?
to fill holes?
lilac stag
yes and no. Better players don’t just randomly show up. We have one friend that’s been subbing in when missing.
vestal escarp
my guild got such a request for example two weeks ago from another in a dire situation
worthy pivot
is it possible to create some sort of macro for symbols of death and dance to prevent wasting charges if you happen to click it multiple times? something like it only casts if you dont have the buff?
tribal blade
yeah i heard the raid lead disc has a place you can ask for players to help
tribal blade
is it possible to create some sort of macro for symbols of death and dance to pr...
don't macro dance and symbols together
that macro was passable up until now, but with the new tier set it's gonna be really bad using it
lilac stag
Basically I geared warrior in 2.5 weeks because ours was mia. Our prot paly has now geared his brm because our monk was 30-60 minutes late almost every night.
our other rogue is on assa because no transmitter
worthy pivot
ohh, i meant a macro for each but the idea is the same.... if i happen to click dance 2 times i would like to not waste the second charge
tribal blade
ohh, i meant a macro for each but the idea is the same.... if i happen to click ...
you won't be able to do that
vestal escarp
wth
tribal blade
you can't dance when you're in an existing dance
worthy pivot
ahh dam
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
lilac stag
and we could actually use plat 1 dmg.
tribal blade
that's for symbols
worthy pivot
❤️
lilac stag
wth
Most of us have had them as alts, just nothing serious this tier
Just stay alive basically.
tribal blade
and we could actually use plat 1 dmg.
sub rogue territory 😉
sub rogue annihilates 1st platform
lilac stag
sub rogue territory 😉
Me in for one platform, or destroying all of p3 adds? Hmmmm
tribal blade
Me in for one platform, or destroying all of p3 adds? Hmmmm
haha fair enough
vestal escarp
/cast Avatar
/cast Bladestorm
steel heart
that macro was passable up until now, but with the new tier set it's gonna be re...
What’s the difference with the new tier?
lilac stag
/cast Avatar
/cast Bladestorm
odyns
tribal blade
What’s the difference with the new tier?
if you use the dance+symbols macro you'll very often be in a position where sectec isn't ready after 1st dance in cds
so that means you have to use 1-2 finishers to get sectec off cd for 2nd dance
lilac stag
what’s funny is, at least in sims. My queeen load as fury sims higher than my sub ST
mighty citrus
what i never got is, why does ss sometimes only generate 5 cp? it super anoying 😄
tribal blade
and then that means with the new tier you either have to use rupture to not reset your tier stacks or press evis and risk resetting stacks
because if you macro them together you're tied to pressing dance+symbols only when sectec has 10 secs or left remaining on cd
to supercharge sectec
steel heart
Aight thanks a lot for the explanation
vestal escarp
np
lilac stag
@vestal escarp the other fun part, everything but rogue is changing so the swapping of classes not gonna really matter all that much
hazy breach
need <@212854714197344256> to give the exact math on it
Ye and thats on pure ST. On aoe wm is almost completely useless so it takes a stupid amount of time for it to beat the first dance
tribal blade
Ye and thats on pure ST. On aoe wm is almost completely useless so it takes a st...
yeah drfunk had a hard time believing TFD was better than WM on st, i don't blame him
hazy breach
On 10 target cleave sims its like 16 minutes
tribal blade
On 10 target cleave sims its like 16 minutes
lol wtf jesus
so you only need to get TFD to proc twice in a key to have it better than WM
2-3 times
tribal blade
TFD even sexier with new tier set
that extra 4 seconds of dance has full DM ramped up as well as tier stacks rolling
that's a lot
vestal escarp
very juicy talent but could defo see some more love
easier activation or something else
lilac stag
leave it as is for pvp
That would possibly make class talent capstone a little more impactful as far as choices
vestal escarp
without a trace?
tribal blade
i'm still not a fan of tying power to vanish
i like that sub doesn't have a lot of power tied to vanish anymore
vestal escarp
well yes you would pick it to get TFD for every flag
i love that too
but if it's just for raid
it's kinda ok
if in other content you can just restealth and activate TFD
haughty mural
i'm still not a fan of tying power to vanish
true and same
vestal escarp
depending on dungeons pool it's a huge defensive
tribal blade
yeah i like having the defensive power in keys
lilac stag
then you don’t run TFD
Not like you’re taking 2 vanish in keys
So how good is it?
it would be a gameplay choice
tribal blade
i still think it's a good idea to make TFD proc off vanish, makes sense
vestal escarp
6 seconds too much
haughty mural
vestal escarp
should be just true stealth
lilac stag
the price for defensive vanish
tribal blade
for PVE should be like 3-4 seconds
lilac stag
Meaningful choice.
haughty mural
the price for defensive vanish
vestal escarp
you can use vanish as an enabler if you cant meet the stealth requirement (ie raid)
but vanish as an activator for dps talents is a no no
lilac stag
you could still use vanish defensively
You do realize it’s next dance press that triggers TFD
lilac stag
Used it defensively in keys? Your next dance is still juiced
vestal escarp
not a random dance that does piss dmg
lilac stag
Run 2 charges
haughty mural
and drop CB ?
lilac stag
or feint and get heals
I bet it would be worth but just bro science
considering it’s worth it in a single ~4 minute fight
lilac stag
at the least it makes what you chose have a little more meaning
haughty mural
always forgot to swap it back the last month+
lilac stag
nice
lilac stag
Oh nice mythic boe shoulders sold at the last minute for 200k
I wonder if they got them in time to upgrade them
keen dome
Hell yeah, gold
light imp
Just looked at patch notes finally. Nothing but trickster buffs 😭😭 rip DS once more lol
lilac stag
You’ll find no sympathy here
lilac stag
DS is still not bad
Correct. It’s fucking awful.
silent ruin
With the buffs to critical strike for trickster are we taking rotten or finality?
vale pine
It plays bad, does not mean its bad
lilac stag
ok time to actually cook (breakfast)
vale pine
With the buffs to critical strike for trickster are we taking rotten or finality...
rotten
finality is not that far behind
light imp
Oh I'm just being dramatic lol. I guess I got the flavor of 'tism that enjoys DS
silent ruin
Ya, that's why the doubt
vale pine
i like both themes
well trickster has no real theme
but i at least managed to create a nice picture for both ^^
light imp
I just like that DS offer variations and decisions making to a small degree vs trickster which is smooth brain same rotation under most conditions
lilac stag
huh?
hazy breach
upper narwhal
Striking every 2nd finisher in AoE is not a decision I enjoy making
silent ruin
Holy fire weapon illusion during dance is best theme
remote shuttle
well trickster has no real theme
Well idk if u play dota2 but now we have phantom assassin ultimate (coup)
remote shuttle
Phantom assassin in dota2 is now totally like sub in wow
remote shuttle
now i feel old ^^
Im 41 bud 😂 i feel like a dyno
light imp
Im 32 and I lived on Dota and LoL when it came out. Am I old?
vale pine
ancient^^
silent ruin
I played CS 1.5, I'm oldest
light imp
I played CS 1.5, I'm oldest
Bro the good ol CS days were amazing
silent ruin
I watched heaton n potty n spawn
remote shuttle
I played CS 1.5, I'm oldest
Same bud 😂 tons of hrs on 1.5 and 1.6
Uuuuh NiP or
Sk
silent ruin
N learnt the heaton spray n owned with ak
remote shuttle
Good old SK times
light imp
So quick question, what makes TS Better in ST. Just the reduced CD on sectec and the buffs to unseen blade?
Bro has peak gaming on his hands
keen dome
Hell yeah N64
light imp
I've been emulating megaman x from the snes😂😂😂
light imp
I had one but I had parents that didn't care for the console gaming and didn't take care of them. He'll they left my $400 snowboard outside to rust when I moved out
vale pine
rip
grand wyvern
Is this a sub player thing?
keen dome
Hell yes
lilac stag
No. It would be goldeneye
vale pine
don't have goldeneye, just perfect dark, lylat wars and concers bad fur day (shooters)
vernal junco
ocarina of time
vale pine
ocarina of time and majoras mask are a must have for sure
tho i think MM is rly not worth playing
hot take tuesday
remote shuttle
I started with nes mario/duckHunt
vale pine
okay, i am not that old ^^
remote shuttle
Thanks god that didn't make me a ol
vernal junco
I started with nes mario/duckHunt
me too
remote shuttle
😂 We dropped pistol for knives in early age
lilac stag
Quake2CTF still 🐐
light imp
I'm a heathen that never got into legend of Zelda 😭 I wanna like the series but to go back and play the originals they're dated, botw was good but I felt like I was missing out not having past experiences with the series
lilac stag
before. You had to run your own servers
vernal junco
turning 40 this year, and it's a little scary.
lilac stag
We had a server setup at university of Illinois “illegally”
light imp
Anyone play battle clash with the super scope 😂😂😂
lilac stag
ie they just had no clue the TA set it up
vale pine
battle clash sounds like a mobile game
light imp
It was a side scrolling mech shooter using nintendos super scope. Game is a core memory for me
timber walrus
trickster tricks talent is bugged, right?
vernal junco
omg
leaden prairie
trickster tricks talent is bugged, right?
Ye it doesn't work anymore
vale pine
trickster tricks talent is bugged, right?
you need to attack to get the 30 minutes buff, but zac mentioned it was bugged
light imp
Yeah kinda like contra. Only you're fighting 1v1 against other mechs and you gotta hit their weak points as they dash around the screen
leaden prairie
They broke it 💀
vale pine
it was too powerful
timber walrus
10% on blind cd is ok too i guess
tribal blade
not a big deal, you just press tricks at the start of every pull
lilac stag
imagine running around with a utility knife over your head the entire time you’re in a raid or dungeon.
tribal blade
and you're good
jade canopy
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
remote shuttle
not a big deal, you just press tricks at the start of every pull
I macroed tricks on my SoD SD and Flag and SB
To recast before any amp
Thought was common, but idk
Works well btw
steel zinc
trickster tricks talent is bugged, right?
Which one?
timber walrus
that gives u 1h tricks
haughty mural
i just press it manually and go with the 10% cdr node
cba having the swiss knife on my head all the time
tribal blade
To recast before any amp
i'm a little hesitant to do anything like that because sometimes people want to assign tricks to certain moments
tribal blade
good thing is both those nodes are not very important
haughty mural
ye
tribal blade
so 1 hour tricks bugging out is honestly a thank god bug
thank god it's not something important bugging out
lilac stag
could just run finality
haughty mural
oh you mean a new one
vale pine
imagine running around with a utility knife over your head the entire time you’r...
sounds handy, where would i put it else?
tribal blade
yeah no new bug
haughty mural
we will get one eventually
remote shuttle
i'm a little hesitant to do anything like that because sometimes people want to ...
Ah ok, i've never been ask to so i find myself confy with those macros, also i use trick on focus and have focus on tank
haughty mural
its spec fantasy
lilac stag
sounds handy, where would i put it else?
In actual attack animation graphics. 
remote shuttle
Swap it in raid to other tank changing focus in raid, but in m+ i just send cd with trick macroed
tribal blade
Ah ok, i've never been ask to so i find myself confy with those macros, also i u...
it's not often, but sometimes my RL or tank will want to have tricks at important moments on a boss when the tank can't get aggro fast enough
or in keys sometimes tanks will want you to use tricks to help them get threat on something at a certain moment
remote shuttle
it's not often, but sometimes my RL or tank will want to have tricks at importan...
Oh well yeah, in that case is not doable
tribal blade
Oh well yeah, in that case is not doable
doesn't happen that much though
vale pine
the thread generation is fairly small tho
remote shuttle
Well i guess you play m+ mostly premade? I go mostly pugs so noone asks
tribal blade
2 bosses from recent memory where it was very useful was broodkeeper and broodtwister
both the broods
hard for the tanks to get snap threat on both those bosses
civic lava
!wa
remote shuttle
Kk gotcha, ty Prof
hazy breach
We had it be somewhat useful on court pull too, because one of our tanks practically didnt hit the scarab so my opener burst would be tricksed to him
Couldve been solved in other ways but this worked fine so we just stuck with it
tribal blade
We had it be somewhat useful on court pull too, because one of our tanks practic...
oh yes that's right i also did the same thing
tricksed our bdk on pull so the red team didn't get insta aggro
keen dome
We're really purple.
haughty mural
we are fine
lilac stag
What's situation? Are we back? Are we dead?
Assa and Sub are amongst the lowest simming dps. For whatever it’s worth.
haughty mural
i like to cope
lilac stag
atrophic is my cope
hazy breach
Assa and Sub are amongst the lowest simming dps. For whatever it’s worth.
Fwiw were not simming very highly in the current tier either
lilac stag
Fwiw were not simming very highly in the current tier either
The gap isn’t as large though
tame ember
Finally, I hope play my rogue assa or sub for s2... I don't know what you think but I'm going to continue on my frost dk
lilac stag
3m vs 2.5. 1.65 vs 1.5
it be what it be
I think assa and sub will both have fights they’re good on. If you can play both specs you’re winning.
haughty mural
atleast we can hope we can get some more people into the spec
as we are mostly nimbeling again
vale pine
rly depends on tuning
untold reef
How big is the damage loss if I gear for Assassination and then play Sub for a couple of dungeons?
hazy breach
Not much at all
lilac stag
most of us gear for sub and swap a ring and neck out for assa
hazy breach
Even if you dont have a swap its no big deal
lilac stag
The vers is good even on assa
untold reef
What's a 90s trinket? I have never heard of that term
hazy breach
90 seconds
sharp peak
…
hazy breach
The cooldown
lilac stag
90000000000 nanoseconds
untold reef
Oh ok, thanks for explaining! And also thanks for answering my initial question! It's really cool that you can just swap without a lot of repercussion, since I do enjoy both specs a lot
vale pine
subtlety want's a lot of mastery and vers, if you gear has a lot of it its perfect for sub
if you have a lot of haste, its not great for sub
hazy breach
Ye but assa doesnt get that much haste anyway, and trickster sub doesnt mind a little bit of crit either
short radish
race to world last is funny
RFWL is where the true content is
pulling up the 9x multi stream
lilac stag
I asked our streamer to go live today. She’s not since it’s an off day
crystal bone
how much does this hurt us
vestal escarp
tier is nerfed so less than you'd expect
hazy breach
how much does this hurt us
About ~1.5%
crystal bone
hazy breach
Ill edit it in
crystal bone
yes edit the sadge in
hazy breach
keen dome
Next tier will be the nuclear SecTec tier..
void hound
swift tinsel
Next tier no split damage
We’re like old mage combust, all abilities become one
And it’s purple as fuuuuuck
Just really hope they never do role-specific sets again
distant bison
this might sound weird but do u guys have a spammable symbolls macro i do double single by mistake alot
hazy breach
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
hardy snow
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.i llove u
small juniper
np
frail swift
twilit phoenix
so we can't upgrade s1 gear anymore this week?
if I get a mythic transmitter in my vault today, it's joever?
vestal escarp
you're never been more back
storm patio
is it bad to have symbols and dance in a macro?
haughty mural
read a few messages above yours
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
fathom gazelle
did they delay m0?
lilac stag
Starts with the season
haughty mural
hazy breach
Dont think they ever said it was coming out before the season
fathom gazelle
where does it say it comes with start of season?
hazy breach
They havent said anything
swift tinsel
why would a chance for s2 gear be available before the season starts
unless you're doing m0 for no gear and no vault
fathom gazelle
boosting
fathom gazelle
They havent said anything
aha kk
slate lantern
ded week
keen dome
Car week. We all get to put on the initial D soundtrack and drift around undermine
swift tinsel
Need to optimize my MDI Delve routes
quiet wasp
when do we think we get a Sub overhaul?
vestal escarp
13.2
quiet wasp
I would like to see more "shadow" theme and shadow damage inherently baked into our kit
I also think its crazy that Goremaw's bite is still a thing. have we ever taken that
slate lantern
Car week. We all get to put on the initial D soundtrack and drift around undermi...
Tokyo drift on repeat
karmic verge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
swift tinsel
Find Weakness causes your abilities to hit once per combo point spent in the last 48 hours
haughty mural
google ghostopera
grave delta
ty
civic acorn
do we use vers or chaos flask in s2? sheet sims say chaos but wowhead guide says vers
lilac wharf
The dude which makes the wowhead guys has no yt or twitch where he gives updates and so for subtley?
pure dust
Fuu? I don't think so.
cloud rover
No
lilac wharf
Hmm is there antoher good channel u can recommend? S1 i played assa and was watching the stuff from the author on yt and it helped me improve my performance from purple parser to orange
And im new to subtley so vids helps me in the beginning
worn cape
Hachadino
slate lantern
And im new to subtley so vids helps me in the beginning
its for this most recent patch so not fully updated but core ideas are the same, just make sure you read the up to date guides to see what differs
cloud rover
He was alaos a green at some point here and still very active here, so might be one of the best soruces
slate lantern
And im new to subtley so vids helps me in the beginning
more videos and other useful stuff, will prob be updated over the next couple of weeks
slate lantern
Stick to the left side as its trickster, which will be better and easier to learn
lilac wharf
Ye ive heard that it will be better
Assa was not too complicated but heared sub will be a bit harder but i give sub a try in s2🔥
Dmg looks nice and aoe is smooth
Just a bit worried about the downtime when shadow blade is not up
lilac wharf
I looks a bit clunky withou cooldowns
swift tinsel
it's supposed to be slower outside of flag/blades
slate lantern
I don't play assa cause fuck assa but sub has a lil steep learning curve cause you have burst windows that you cannot fuck up otherwise your damage is in the pits, but everything makes sense and with practice you'll get a feel for it
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
lilac wharf
And also mainly switching because the single target of assa in mythic+ looks so fking bad😅
swift tinsel
your big cd windows are effectively scripted outside of shadowcraft resets so practicing them is very beneficial
light imp
i miss the days when backstab hit like an absolute truck so we stacked haste for energy regen for more backstabs, shadow dance was only to cast ambush, which hit like a bigger truck, so we stacked haste to get as many ambushes inside shadow dance lol
swift tinsel
sub is very lucky that we don't have to trade off aoe for st or vice versa
remote rapids
I am hoping to be back on sub, always liked it, really long as I don't have to play outlaw I'm happy ... just never been able to really get into Outlaw
I just want DfA back, what was that boss that smashed the floor, forget his name, but casting DfA when the floor breaks was the best made it feel like you should do 50x damage!
lilac wharf
sub is very lucky that we don't have to trade off aoe for st or vice versa
Main thing why im swithcing in s2 to sub instead of assa😅
Feels so good to not have this trade off
keen dome
We also glow purple
lilac wharf
And the raid looks insane cleave so sub should shine too
twilit phoenix
I don't play assa cause fuck assa but sub has a lil steep learning curve cause y...
do you have a sub guide?
slate lantern
do you have a sub guide?
Go do the sub opener rotation on the dummies until you have a broken weapons.
Profit
wheat edge
yo is it fried to macro blades to secret tech? you always want to use it after tech right so is there something I am missing that would make it bad?
tepid trellis
u finna need a seperate bind anyway
imagine you are on a pack cds are back mobs are at 15-20% health
you have enough resources to dance it
you send dance
you forgot you decided to macro Blades on sectech
now blades is popped
you alt + f4
and go cry
maiden hamlet
Personally I have blades + sectec and a sectec + cb macro, minor hiccups so far I've liked it
wheat edge
yeah I was just doing some rotations on dummy and in my head it seemed like a thing that would be do-able
tepid trellis
its not no
maiden hamlet
It helps me hold cb for 2nd sectec
tepid trellis
about 0.5%
lilac wharf
And antoher short question before im out😅
On aoe pulls is sub dmg ramping up (setup needee) or kinda instant there when clicking cd? Like do we need a lot of setup on a pull (apply some ruptures and other stuff) before we press cds and pump?
swift tinsel
you can apply ruptures as the tank is gathering
but don't need to get them onto every mob
don't wanna delay your cooldowns if mobs won't live through them
golden kelp
On aoe pulls is sub dmg ramping up (setup needee) or kinda instant there when cl...
I find that spending too much time setting up ruptures will result in half the pack being dead by the time you'd cast 2nd sectech
so depends on key lvl etc id say
lilac wharf
so depends on key lvl etc id say
Yeah 100% but lets say casual 10 keys after the dungeon nerfs
swift tinsel
can cast like 3-4
with Replicating Shadows that 6-8 ruptures
if you're really worried just send 2 or 3 casts on bigger/lieutenant mobs
lilac wharf
And why do we skill the thing in m+ that when we are out of combat for 6e we get 4 sec of shadoe dance? Seems not really used and waste? of skill point
swift tinsel
Its very good
lilac wharf
Cuz tanks love chaining und 6 sec is insane long
swift tinsel
The First Dance is very worth it, even if you only get it 3 or 4 times in a dungeon
our alternative talents aren't that great
lilac wharf
haha ye kinda😂 im a assa main but if u can play then chaining is no problem