i c
#subtlety
pearl swan
alpine void
good question
tepid trellis
macroing symbols with dance is not something we recommend no
lilac stag
!macros
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.its been so long since i played sub
tepid trellis
you will lose out on Supercharging your 2nd sectech if you do it
hazy breach
Im not overly happy with the wording on this but idk what to change it to
gilded jungle
you will lose out on Supercharging your 2nd sectech if you do it
Good to know.
quick swan
I have the old muscle memory of using symbols with dance instead of holding it for 2nd tech lol
gunna take time
tepid trellis
i never had them macro'd to begin with 
lilac stag
Im not overly happy with the wording on this but idk what to change it to
“Dance and Symbols desync during sblades”
idk
gilded jungle
i never had them macro'd to begin with <:EZ:653881481097248798>
Same I was just curious if it was worth it or not.
alpine void
when do we have access to sims for 11.1, and if we already do where can i find them
lilac stag
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
S2 tab
tepid trellis
light version
alpine void
so is outlaw only bad in keys then?
hazy breach
“Dance and Symbols desync during sblades”
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
hazy breach
Hopefully thats better.
swift tinsel
That sounds clear imo
gilded jungle
Agreed.
bleak wind
do we know what causes the new 4set to not work? are you able to play around it?
hazy breach
We no not. My best guess is that the clones independently roll the "stack removal" thing from the 2p since they dont have shadow dance active
There does not seem to be any way to play around it.
bleak wind
bummer
bleak wind
honestly it was very annoying so I'll take it
swift tinsel
do they ever do bugfixes over the weekend
hazy breach
Although with nimble buffed its gonna happen way less often
swift tinsel
I'd think not, but I'm kinda bored lol
strange chasm
Sub in dungeons should slap now right?
Wonder if sin still will be better
Or sub will be good because we can aoe and st
swift tinsel
Sub should be quite good yeah
and we don't have to spec for st or aoe to do either, def a plus (outside of imp storm)
strange chasm
With nimble buff does BP rules change
frozen lichen
where is fuu simbots?
hazy breach
Nothing in that regard
swift tinsel
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
hazy breach
7 instead of 5
Technically its fine to bp at 6 too, sims have it as being equal to eviscerating but why bother with bps since its more work and less prio 
swift tinsel
for sure, making baby steps in the right direction
now if they just fix the nimble bugs too
(and remove all FW interactions)
valid marsh
S2 tab
is this sim even accurate anymore???? when you pull up the sim it shows the gear still having 6% on the 4set
alpine wraith
they are not updated yet no
tribal blade
Technically its fine to bp at 6 too, sims have it as being equal to eviscerating...
nimbe at 7, sick
i'm really digging nimble being stronger at higher target counts over BP
patent crystal
do you ever think there is a world where they make nimble work with shadow blades?
random comet
Not without tuning other stuff down to accommodate
swift tinsel
Unless it worked at one point and was removed, I personally don't see it being a thing
they'd have to whitelist blades events from specific attacks and since blades is its own damage I feel like it would cause a lot of problems
sudden bison
How do you guys deal with no perma sprint
hazy breach
Just step
sudden bison
Does step have CDR?
hazy breach
Not as trickster no
hazy breach
"lack of movement"
Relative to outlaw maybe, but compared to most other specs sub is not a low movement spec
swift tinsel
Fade to Nothing and Shadowrunner have us zooming around a good bit
sudden bison
Guess in 11.1 the trade off will be that sub has damage hehehe
austere zodiac
!sims
wicked joltBOT
Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
austere zodiac
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fallow nimbus
I have 168% speed with dance/stealth. Sub is zooming
tribal blade
Guess in 11.1 the trade off will be that sub has damage hehehe
the day may come when blizz finally realizes outlaw has way too high uptime on sprint/evasion/feint etc
hrm it's gonna be visually tougher to quickly at a glance see your pack has 7 targets instead of 5
tribal blade
yah i had one before
twilit phoenix
so what's the problem???????
twilit phoenix
watching zac play sub on ptr
whenever he presses flag, I instinctively look for the little transmitter bullshit
tribal blade
so what's the problem???????
geez chill
twilit phoenix
geez chill
lol i'm just playing I love you
tranquil garden
Don't forget the % speed from blasphemite and the +speed boot enchants. Lots of folks forget about those
swift tinsel
stay strapped
tribal blade
i was debating using that gem instead of the crit one
tranquil garden
Free 4% always on speed boost right there.
twilit phoenix
so is trickster supposed to be better in ST next patch as well?
or does DS still come out ahead
tranquil garden
The boot enchant is something crazy like plus 1000 speed as well
tribal blade
it can be 8% right
swift tinsel
I arguably notice the speed more than the tiny crit
tribal blade
I arguably notice the speed more than the tiny crit
i agree with that
swift tinsel
so is trickster supposed to be better in ST next patch as well?
trickster
twilit phoenix
nvm just saw info in pins
tribal blade
about to sim to see the difference
tranquil garden
Sure, but who is using The gems that are not mastery and versatility? Well could be worth running a crit gem to get the extra two percent speed.
swift tinsel
next season it has me mixing up some vers/mastery and crit/mastery-vers
tranquil garden
Ah hell, it's almost certainly worth it. I'll have to change one of my gems.
tribal blade
Sure, but who is using The gems that are not mastery and versatility? Well could...
changing 1 gem to subpar stats doesn't make a big difference
tranquil garden
Movement speed is totally op. Worth changing a gem to a crit gem for.
swift tinsel
now I'm curious about forcing 4 types lol
twilit phoenix
new swirlies on ptr look nice for sure
tribal blade
now I'm curious about forcing 4 types lol
it was barely a difference for me last time i simmed
but that was with crit gem
tranquil garden
Bracer enchant is a bit tougher. I take speed but I can see the argument for avoidance
swift tinsel
oh yeah its like nothing
tranquil garden
I always do myself
tribal blade
oh yeah its like nothing
yeah the variance on all this stuff is tiny
so can just do w/e you want
i wanna try running speed gem
i think running high speed is underrated
oh yeah i'm zooming with the speed gem
mental spire
movement speed is the most sexy stat because you can do more zig zags
rocky ocean
movement rogue
thorny zodiac
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vWG1GHJ9xaEwcBpu1jxvq1 is this a real sim? is this accurate??
trail crest
YES
indigo trench
you're wearing a fist wep in your mainhand
runic crown
sub links dont work 😦
worthy pulsar
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
late oxide
Any suggestions video or twitch for learning sub please advise
twilit phoenix
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
i got flamed during SL for running full speed gems
We are the same.
lilac stag
sub links dont work 😦
Light spreadsheet. S2 tab
rancid verge
do we always want to have 2 dances for shadowblades even if it means we overcap for a bit?
uneven scarab
You can have 1 dance and 40 seconds ready on the second one
rancid verge
oki, thank you
any idea why we use shadowblades AFTER secret technique in our opener?
it seems very counterintuitive
twilit phoenix
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
tribal blade
any idea why we use shadowblades AFTER secret technique in our opener?
- consuming the premed buff
- sectec currently is not buffed by blades
rancid verge
okay, that makes sense, thanks
runic crown
Anyone's got hekili profile with black powder priority for aoe? It barely ever triggers in dungeons or enemy dummies (5 targets).
tribal blade
Anyone's got hekili profile with black powder priority for aoe? It barely ever t...
would HIGHLY recommend not playing with hekili
sullen hare
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
sullen hare
1. consuming the premed buff
2. sectec currently is not buffed by blades
2 is fixed on PTR thankfully?
tribal blade
2 is fixed on PTR thankfully?
it is yeah
but we'll still be using blades at basically the same time
so long as you use blades after premed is consumed and before the clones hit you're gucci
plush roost
He means Shadowblades when he says sec tec btw
tribal blade
He means Shadowblades when he says sec tec btw
oh right right yeah
jesus what a brain fart
sudden bison
is there a wya to make the tricks animation thing go away
languid mortar
!wa
spark tusk
I suppose you could make a weakaura that is permanently overtop of the tricks animation
but uh
that'd cause another problem
sick jackal
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
spice matrix
tribal blade
more WAs and addons means i have more information
spark tusk
that ss doesn't have any was in it
quick swan
Bit confused around dance timings atm.. at what point do you know not to send another dance/symbols so you have 2x for blades + flag? or am I misunderstanding
tribal blade
Bit confused around dance timings atm.. at what point do you know not to send an...
pretty much stop sending dances around 30 secs before your next cd set
quick swan
so roughly 30sec before blades/flag comes up
I think I remember reading/watching something that its safe to send cd's with second dance on CD as long as its under 40sec remaining as well.. is that right?
due to CD reduction
tribal blade
I think I remember reading/watching something that its safe to send cd's with se...
yes that's correct
this is all situational, like if you're in M+ and your next cd set is 30 secs or less out but you're about to cap on dance+symbols charges it's safe to send em
quick swan
More interested in raid ST than M+ currently, but I get what you mean
tribal blade
More interested in raid ST than M+ currently, but I get what you mean
it's usually better to err on the side of caution to make sure you have enough dance+symbols for your next cd set
it's really bad if you don't
twilit phoenix
i mean, the spec is designed to do damage within those windows
tribal blade
if you'll have enough symbols charges before your next cd set you can symbols+sectec
or just naked sectec 20 secs out
twilit phoenix
honestly DS kinda started growing on me
sudden bison
in m+ how many ruptures should i throw out before i do burst for big pulls?
lilac stag
If it lives long enough and tank is gathering. If mobs are there you just send
sour stump
Disappointment
proper latch
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
random comet
D.R.I.V.E
twilit phoenix
any good loot farming avenues?
random mason
Delves no?
Should get one hero track piece in vault plus whatever you can grab from dungeons
jaunty heath
Are bountiful delves open next week?
random mason
Reading the announcements post it looks like the new delves rotate in with s2
So in 1.5 weeks
random mason
Think so
twilit phoenix
thanks for the info odon
balmy thorn
During Symbols, should I be pressing only BS/SS to generate in AoE with Inevitability talented?
tribal blade
During Symbols, should I be pressing only BS/SS to generate in AoE with Inevitab...
no it's not worth it
but if you're in symbols+dance you should be pressing strike regardless of target count as tickster
open vortex
thorny kestrel
so i read somewhere that with deathstalker, you don't have to worry about eviscerating / bp 30 seconds before your coolies come back like you do in trickster because of tier set? is that true
open vortex
so close to being completely balanced
tribal blade
so i read somewhere that with deathstalker, you don't have to worry about evisce...
with the recent tuning you don't need to do that regardless of which tree you're running
thorny kestrel
oh nice. so no more ruptures
tribal blade
it'll still be worth doing if important moments are coming up and your cds will be ready soon
or say a pack in M+ is almost dead should just start saving tier set
thorny kestrel
that makes sense
tribal blade
but yeah overall don't need to think too hard about it 😉
floral forum
If shadow dance is active and you are attack 5 targets in m+, do you go shadow strike eviscerate or shuriken storm eviscerate or shuriken storm black powder? On trickster
floral forum
Ty sorry im new
golden kelp
Reading the announcements post it looks like the new delves rotate in with s2
could you link? really thought we'd be properly delve gaming next week... sadge
keen dome
I'm also wondering if M0's get updated on reset or not.
cinder steppe
hello
new sub changes are live on ptr?
clear osprey
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
brisk onyx
hello
new sub changes are live on ptr?
yes
lime edge
hey all! ive recently leveled and gearing a rogue, some lads told me that sub was the easiest one to learn and master, but looking at the wowhead article about sub it says its pretty darn dificult. so which is it? is sub the "easier" spec?
steel zinc
hey all! ive recently leveled and gearing a rogue, some lads told me that sub wa...
Assa is the easiest to learn fast and sub is the one you just Master by playing the game and getting experience
lime edge
i though ass was the hardest esp in m+
random comet
used to be, pretty easy now
keen dome
Sub isn't hard but it is complex and has a lot of quirks to learn. Which can result in a more diffiuclt experience. Assa is a lot easier to learn, but has some higher level complexities.
upper plinth
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
worn cape
Sub might take a bit longer to grasp than assa, which is more straightforward.
keen dome
Play the one you personally think you'll enjoy the most, and if you are learning Rogue then you should just stick to that and get comfy with the spec.
Sub's complexities come from learning a lot of the why we do things, and planning out your cooldown usage and thinking ahead for big damage abilities, etc. We can't just press stuff, but have to put it all together effectively or we do no damage.
worn cape
Play the one you personally think you'll enjoy the most, and if you are learning...
This, I started as a sub rogue and it was just so much fun. Did take a while for me (an utter wow noob) to do some decent damage, but it was a journey that I enjoyed every second of.
My husband keeps telling me I should play something easier like Ret or BM, but I don't want to 😂
keen dome
PURPLE IS LIFE
worn cape
Next season will be my first season in a mythic raid team so I don't know what he is complaining about tbh
So, yeah, @lime edge just try all of them and see which one is the most fun 😄
(it's sub btw.) ||/jk||
steel zinc
i though ass was the hardest esp in m+
Also I wouldn't play what is easy if you have fun learning the spec that is way more rewarding and also will help you when you hit roadblocks
lime edge
thats true, i guess. but im scared to underperform becaus i stress with a rotation, used to play enh pretty well but man it was tiring at times
steel zinc
All 3 rogue specs are among the most difficult dps specs in the game
steel zinc
thats true, i guess. but im scared to underperform becaus i stress with a rotati...
You will underperform and that is normal
keen dome
thats true, i guess. but im scared to underperform becaus i stress with a rotati...
What kind of content do you primarily play?
lime edge
m+ and raid
keen dome
Sorry, I worded it badly: at what level? 🙂
lime edge
usually just curve and farm for raid though to old for mythic grinding now
keen dome
High5, you'll be absolutely fine
lime edge
for m+ goal is 3300 next season
steel zinc
for m+ goal is 3300 next season
Then play sub and enjoy the journey
tidal marsh
Why not 3333
lime edge
because thats two 3 too many
steel zinc
Like play the season sub and enjoy mastering it
void hound
hey all! ive recently leveled and gearing a rogue, some lads told me that sub wa...
sub is probably the hardest melee spec in the game
if you want a better learning curve, look towards the other specs
steel zinc
sub is probably the hardest melee spec in the game
if you want a better learning...
Yes and no
If you enjoy sth it will be easier
lime edge
how if i may ask it is the hardest?
worn cape
I parsed grey on sub for a whole month on heroic raid this season before I went to blue and purples
void hound
how if i may ask it is the hardest?
lots of buttons, lots of rules, lots of ways to get punished (especially in raid)
keen dome
I parsed grey on sub for a whole month on heroic raid this season before I went ...
Hell yeah, amazing job with the improvement
lime edge
i see, i can tell i was boozled when i was told it was easy then-.-
keen dome
I got my first ever 95+'s this season too. Just gotta keep at it.
steel zinc
how if i may ask it is the hardest?
Learning the burst sequence is the easy part when to use it effectively especially in m+ comes with experience
keen dome
We also can't really macro anything, so there's a lot of extra elements to consider. Also when to use something is just as important as the why we're using it in the way we do (I.e., Symbols to buff Secret Technique)
steel zinc
Also sub has ups and downs during its dmg. Outside its cds you can chill
Inside cds you gotta focus
keen dome
The positives is that Sub never dies and is utterly absurd in it's tankiness, has incredibly powerful burst (and nothing between) and will delete bosses
worn cape
I love going from 1 APM to 30 APM
void hound
sub is a ton of fun, people jsut need to be aware that playing it will tank their performance hard for a while
keen dome
Ye. You've gotta put the time in to get the purple
steel zinc
sub is a ton of fun, people jsut need to be aware that playing it will tank thei...
That is with anything anybody learns and starts new
void hound
kinda, but its especially bad on sub
worn cape
Ye. You've gotta put the time in to get the purple
best feeling purple ever tho
steel zinc
kinda, but its especially bad on sub
Highly depends on the playertype
void hound
i disagree
steel zinc
I find outlaw more difficult then sub because of the high apm
keen dome
I think Mapko is right on that. Some people will have a much easier time. It's very dependent on the indiviudal
high5, same
steel zinc
Outlaw rotation is omega easy in theory but it's so fast sub is easier for me atleast
void hound
I find outlaw more difficult then sub because of the high apm
outlaw is probably more difficult when going from top 5% performance to top 1% performance
but going from 0% to like 70% its way easier
thats how i view it anyways
steel zinc
Nah outlaw is imo harder if you screw up vanish with bte it's pretty punishing. But again someone like u might find that easier. Again depends on the person
keen dome
Nah outlaw is imo harder if you screw up vanish with bte it's pretty punishing. ...
It's reminscient of Dust sub in a way. Where if you mess your cooldowns up, it's going to tank your damage so hard in an awkward way.
Not to the same extreme, but it feels similar to me.
frank musk
You will become the lord of the dance at the end of it however.
Before you know it, you run a dancing school.
Tho the fatality rate on the dance floor will require you to ask if your moral compass allows the death toll.
worn cape
Imagine a glyph that makes you dance when you activate shadow dance.
keen dome
haha
frank musk
Imagine a glyph that makes you dance when you activate shadow dance.
Id have that permanently slotted. I always tell my friends Shadow Dancing is my dance steps practice.
The dancing jokes are to die for.
I always picture it as this really weird dancing where the red rose gets replaced with a black one, and you and your partner just pop shadow dance.
Before you press it to start dancing, you hold one hand out to your dance partner, and one dagger held behind your back 😉
worn cape
Just a whole dance sequence with you and the boss every 30 sec 😂
karmic verge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
frank musk
Yes, and Spanish music playing in the background.
At the end the boss is on the floor, and you have to carry the boss to a seat so the boss can relax for a week when it is time again for the 'salsa'
But picturing it as you dancing the tango with the boss is even funnier imo.
Id pay real money to make that happen for the sheer comedy factor.
worn cape
Same 😂
frank musk
Think of all the dance memes.
Think i need to dress up as Don Carlos again and practice my shadow dancing in that everytime from now on.
upper plinth
!wa
vale tusk
Is sub one of the harder rogue specs to learn?
alpine wraith
depends on how you roll it is in theory not super hard but it has some rules that make it difficult for many
vale pine
Is sub one of the harder rogue specs to learn?
yes
vale tusk
ok ill try and look at some guides see how the playstyle is
sick jackal
this is the sub playstyle
Insurance is not a necessary
void hound
Insurance is not a necessary
it is actually, cause you run the risk of a heart attack when you make a little mistake in your burst
sick jackal
it is actually, cause you run the risk of a heart attack when you make a little ...
If you have investment knowladge you can have a in case of emergancy fund
vale pine
this is the sub playstyle
XD
sick jackal
as i dont the insurance is going to cover coup rushing the swirlies in blades
vale tusk
Does anyone have a good rotation guide link?>
vale pine
!guide
void hound
actually 10.2 completely reworked sub 🤓
keen dome
this is the sub playstyle
Damn, can't believe Sub is down in the fourth quarter. We need to up the dance stocks.
void hound
Damn, can't believe Sub is down in the fourth quarter. We need to up the dance s...
recent regulations on our tier set shook investors
keen dome
Damn, that's fair
short radish
🍴
glacial hinge
shoudnt 2piece only remove 1stack of winning streak? or is it meant to clear all stacks?
alpine wraith
clears all stacks
glacial hinge
;_; sadge when i read it thought i was 1stack, scuffed :C
hazy breach
It wouldnt break the streak if it only removed one stack
glacial hinge
ye, i didnt read it correctly 😛
graceful perch
guys, i have a issue with my rotation. in the current sim it shows that i use my 3rd dance right after the second finishes.. somehow my sec tec does not come up if i use the 3rd dance after the second. is it just procc dependent or should i dumb some backstabs inbetween so my sec tech lines up?
shy orbit
!wa
glacial hinge
from what ive been trying isnt as bad as people portrait it, but not as fun as i would hoped so
lilac stag
guys, i have a issue with my rotation. in the current sim it shows that i use my...
The sim is one iteration. Follow the rules and also realize we are very dependent on skyfury.
thin lion
Short question, does some1 of you use a macro for tricks of the trade and could post it here ? 😄
errant tinsel
!tricks
wicked joltBOT
Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0
ty
uncut socket
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wild hornet
Do i have to always use sod on sectec or am i also able to use it on the previous evisc spender
lilac stag
One of the two must be Sectech
hazy breach
You always want to supercharge sectech. But you get two supercharger points per symbols
So you shouldnt be using symbols unless secret technique has less than 10 seconds left
wild hornet
I mean in a scenario where i use sdance symbol after pull when my next spender after evis will be sectec
wild hornet
So you shouldnt be using symbols unless secret technique has less than 10 second...
So in my case its fine doing sod-evi-sstrike-sectec?
hazy breach
yes
wild hornet
Do i have to somehow move the sod cast after evis or can i keep it as is?
lilac stag
Once you press sod, one of you first two finishers must be Sectech. That’s it.
tribal blade
what if we just press symbols on cooldown and see what happens
tribal blade
surely if i press all 3 charges at once i have triple the energy gains
worthy axle
Is any weak aura to track 4p in season 2?
lilac stag
Just track the buff. Easy to make
tribal blade
it is actually quite easy, WAs has very simple to follow templates to make your own
even for an imbecile with computer stuff like me
hollow snow
analog hearth
@hazy breach any early thoughts about how we play around tier set between dances? worth to afk rupture?
upper plinth
How much different does the spec play with Skyfury and without?
hazy breach
Skyfury provides roughly 10% of our combo point generation
upper plinth
ouch
analog hearth
lowkey feels like the longer u manage to hold 10 stacks through cds the first non dance spender has a really high chance to remove streak.
upper plinth
So downtime in between burst will feel better
analog hearth
is there like anti good luck for PPM stuff
fathom adder
where are infos about the rupture spam between dances in the pins? i cannot find that topic in the new ones
jade urchin
where are infos about the rupture spam between dances in the pins? i cannot find...
its not a thing anymore iirc
upper plinth
got removed with the nerf of the tierset
thin lion
guess it was unpinned beacuse its not necessary anymore
upper plinth
Do we play around the tier set in any kind?
jade urchin
doesnt seem like
vestal escarp
analog hearth
maybe a little bit of consideration if ur approaching blades
and end of pack stuff
but pretty minor
fathom adder
ok thank you
upper plinth
From your expecience guys, is it worth it to track flawless form or the fazed debuff from trickster?
jade urchin
yes, dont wanna coup a target without faze or spend coup by accident
small juniper
u cant sim shit for m+ so u just have to think for urself whether or not to drop stacks when it comes to that
lilac stag
So downtime in between burst will feel better
Not really. unless you find pressing evic better. Dmg outside of burst is still basically getting CPs spent for CDR
upper plinth
yes, dont wanna coup a target without faze or spend coup by accident
i dont meant the buff that reaches 4 and you coup. i meant the stacking overlapping damage buff for finishers.
But okay i will track fazed
jade urchin
i dont meant the buff that reaches 4 and you coup. i meant the stacking overlapp...
ah, those not really, maybe theres some slight optimization but would be new to me
upper plinth
Not really. unless you find pressing evic better. Dmg outside of burst is still ...
comment was connected to skyfury importance.
lilac stag
it’s the same difference. Downtime is bad. Losing CDR. Not having skyfury bad.
analog hearth
atm its lowkey the hardest spec to learn in the game atm
upper plinth
fml
lilac stag
there’s a reason no one plays this spec
upper plinth
But i see progress. i get within 50-75k of my sim DPS
lilac stag
Most people in here asking questions will be back to assa or something else in 2 weeks
upper plinth
I come from outlaw. There are also some reasons why no one plays that
lilac stag
yeah not everyone likes 90apm flat dmg specs
upper plinth
i do. But its not that good for prog and i dont want to be an outlaw otp forever
lilac stag
not everyone likes variable cd nothing lights up burst specs. They like the idea of burst, just not the ramp / management.
tough belfry
how's sub performing in s2?
lilac stag
like a rogue
tough belfry
godlike?
granite river
Roguelike
tough belfry
lmao
upper plinth
IIRC middle of the pack from testing, but testing results are worth shit
lilac stag
Enchance or Arms if you want meta
upper plinth
for how many secs is it okay to hold ST to align CB and ST?
lilac stag
you don’t. It should be ready for your flag cd window
upper plinth
i mean in between CDs. there is a situation where you use Dance, SoD and ST. any my question is if you delay that for CB a couple secs or just send it
golden kelp
i mean in between CDs. there is a situation where you use Dance, SoD and ST. any...
I think you stricly use CB for the 2nd ST in flag windows
upper plinth
wait. does that mean the spreadsheet from Hachedino with the ~ CD alignments isnt up to date anymore? 😭 been practising on that basis
golden kelp
ah nvm
lilac stag
With 100% uptime? Sure?
If you need to start delaying CDs it can steamroll. CB as second Sectech in Flag is the big worry.
uptime isn’t going to be black and white in an encounter or where you actually need to send CDs
upper plinth
you are right
and i always used CB on first ST in opener. Need to change that i gues
lilac stag
and this is what usually frustrates folks. A lot of it is not hard, some stuff is.
if the just learning leave it macro’d and full send it
keen dome
Small optimisations can come later. Get comfy with the overall style and buttons and sequences and logic, imo.
upper plinth
problem i have rn is that i dont get it always right when to send and when to gold dance. RN i stop using dance around 25to30 is secs before flag and that usually plays out good
i dont have my keybinds all sorted out rn. Not comfy with how my buttons are, but there are so many xD
keen dome
I believe it's around 40s~ left on Flag you wanna start pooling charges, but a better player than me can confirm this.
upper plinth
if the just learning leave it macro’d and full send it
but wasnt macroing not recommended
lilac stag
I do know what Dino’s sheet has. Haven’t looked at it in a minute. Best thing you can do is be one of Pavlov’s dogs. Put an audio alert on Sectech when it’s CD is 10 seconds. You’re then safe to send SoD.
upper plinth
I believe it's around 40s~ left on Flag you wanna start pooling charges, but a b...
ah that would explain why sometimes i got 5 secs left on 2nd dance CD in CDs
lilac stag
but wasnt macroing not recommended
It’s a 1% difference. It also melts people’s brains.
golden kelp
problem i have rn is that i dont get it always right when to send and when to go...
You can make this much simpler for yourself, you'll typically send 2 dances inbetween opener cds and your next flag window due to having 2 dances on pull
after that I think you typically just fit 1/2
upper plinth
I do know what Dino’s sheet has. Haven’t looked at it in a minute. Best thing yo...
thats a good call. will do that
keen dome
The audio que helps a lot
upper plinth
It’s a 1% difference. It also melts people’s brains.
so just macro CB and ST and call it a day? Dont want to make a bad habit if its that impactfull
lilac stag
You’re not using CDs if flag is 40 seconds.
keen dome
so just macro CB and ST and call it a day? Dont want to make a bad habit if its ...
I'd say go for it initially, and once you are very comfortable with everything else, focus on learning those.
You don't have to master everything all at once.
lilac stag
so just macro CB and ST and call it a day? Dont want to make a bad habit if its ...
All of us had it macro’d. Some of us have swapped off. I don’t know what you can or can’t handle.
upper plinth
I'd say go for it initially, and once you are very comfortable with everything e...
i guess youre right
lilac stag
you fucking up other shit way more impactful than that macro
keen dome
Absolutely
It's not going to be the make-or-break difference initially, and often making something a little simpler to grasp or smoother to play will result in you learning the other elements more consistently
And then once you've gotten those down you can introduce some more optimisation and complexities.
Building on a foundation, basically.
lilac stag
Just wait til everyone finds out how hard parsing is with no one playing the spec and those that do have been playing it for expansions.
upper plinth
i know that from outlaw. luckily im quite good at the spec but its sometimes awful to play in prog
lilac stag
We’ll save that surprise for a few weeks into mythic.
upper plinth
im not under the illusion that i will get good parses in my first ever season playing sub ever
keen dome
Never say never
lilac stag
not you specifically, but there will be tears in here
if people are having fun, idc what they play. Except deathstacker sub. Out back you go.
hidden oar
!wa
upper plinth
Is it okay if i have a macro for SD + SoD for the 1st Dance in Flag+Blades? And have seperate KB for Dance and SoD for the "normal" ones like 2nd in CDs or every other time?
wooden kernel
Terrible question, season starts 2/25 (m+ n raid) or following Tuesday?
wooden kernel
Sick Ty!
lilac stag
Is it okay if i have a macro for SD + SoD for the 1st Dance in Flag+Blades? And ...
No real point except to sometimes accidentally press it.
get the muscle memory
down for both presses
upper plinth
okay... back to dummy
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
worn cape
Honestly, I personally found it easy enough to learn without the macro. You won't have to unlearn it later either, which is a plus.
upper plinth
Nope. You can't dance while dancing, either.
didnt notice that and explains why sometimes my presses didnt do anything. good to know.
About SoD i did know 😄
keen dome
You can't stealth while dancing, either, which can sometimes feel a little awkward, haha
vale pine
Dance doesnt have a pandemic right?
dance just overwrites
BUT
you can't use dance while dance is active
so it does not matter
it was a problem in patches this mechanism was broken
stiff wyvern
Sub meta in next patch?
keen dome
Sure
keen dome
It'll be very purple.
worn cape
And a lot of dancing.
keen dome
Practice makes perfect
bleak night
hit a dummy while listening to the Rocky 3 soundtrack
and you'll be ready in no time
stiff wyvern
hit a dummy while listening to the Rocky 3 soundtrack
bleak night
wooden kernel
@alpine wraith prob have been asked a million times already but timings still accurate? I know no changes really, just wondering if ur spreadsheet still up to date timing wise , tyy!! Also any info on delve build or just run m+ build?
alpine wraith
yea afer the tier set head split timers have not changed
playing around not resetting is almost neutral do be aware mechanics in bosses like adds spawning or phases etc will warp things
i will recommend to change one thing but in sims it is at most neutral
just moving the 30 secs dance to like 60-70
chrome palm
are trinket sims for s2 up to date?
hollow spear
just moving the 30 secs dance to like 60-70
So you'd yank out sod + sectec without dancing first?
alpine wraith
after cds after sec tech comes back yea then dance with CB then dance with sec tech then cds come
to not lose tier set but it is not a huge win
with tier being noodler now
upper plinth
a little bit sad we dont play around new tier at all. Although the 2-3 Rupture felt weird is wasnt bad and the payoff would have been cool.
But i still have many other things to learn before complaining about that type of stuff
muted girder
anyone know if there is a chance we play siphoning stiletto dagger with the buffs to it ?
alpine wraith
0 chance
feral barn
Hi guys, just out of curiosity how are the rogue specs doing so far ? Don't want a precise answer i'll probably play the 3 of them but is there any that looks really bad or really good ?
alpine wraith
you cant really know
uneven scarab
Prot warrior looks pretty good dps wise 
alpine wraith
all 3 seem fine in regards to damage but some people hate one or the other
tidal marsh
Prot warrior looks pretty good dps wise <:okayge:917646812519739433>
Yeh and fire mage looks really bad
Almost gets beat by prot warrior
granite river
Almost gets beat by prot warrior
Kira beat gingi one ToP
bright elk
Do we know if the rogue specs all want similar or opposite stats?
dense geode
its the same as this tier
alpine wraith
sub wants vers mastery assa ilvl in general outlaw caps haste then vers crit
and even then it is kinda whatever even for sub unless it is aoe where haste is a bit worse
wild hornet
is there a place where id prefer using sstrike/bstab over sstorm with the witness buff
drifting fable
!guide
tepid trellis
is there a place where id prefer using sstrike/bstab over sstorm with the witnes...
inside of dance
only consume it outside of cds
wild hornet
only consume it outside of cds
like the period where youd usually just spam bstab/evis?
tepid trellis
yeh
wild hornet
alright ty
drifting fable
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.no more cb sectech macro?
keen dome
It's less optimal these days as manually using CB with SecTec is a bigger gain than just sending it. I think it was said to be around a 1%~ increase or so when used properly?
hazy breach
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
keen dome
Oh, that's really nice.
warm depot
thank go dmy aversion to macros wins again
graceful perch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
leaden thunder
!wa
wild hornet
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When...
so on your opener you don't use cb on the first sectec into sblades?
hollow spear
No, you use it on the 2nd
humble gate
Hi sorry I’m confused about the CB and sectech macro not being recommended. Don’t they have the same cooldown though? I know I’m missing something. Can anyone explain?
uneven scarab
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
dry plank
Sectech has cdr and cb don’t
humble gate
Thanks!
random hare
@vale pine
vale pine
<@194804407706189824>
?
random hare
u guys told me eviscerate at 7, pin says 6 targets, any updates on that
vale pine
bp on 7
void hound
btw why did the finisher rule change from 5 cp to 6 cp inside dance from DF to TWW
random hare
@vale pine are we doing the degenerate rupture forever till cds now
tepid trellis
no
tepid trellis
you can if u know a big pack comes up and you have just a few guys left to kill
its neutral on a single target sim
marble ledge
I've seen different answers now, is it BP > Evis on 4,5,6, or 7 targets
tepid trellis
BP on 7 as trickster
solid yacht
WA related question! Trying to make a premade aura for shadow technique to only show if =<7 but its always showing, any common fixes?
using the default texture (2 wings around char)
random hare
@tepid trellis do we always consume coup in dance? and never outside?
tepid trellis
doesent matter
vale pine
think of it like this
random hare
if it doesnt matter then i think i know how it should be used
vale pine
the tank gathers a group, you have a few seconds before stuff is gathered -> there is no harm spreading a few ruptures
solid yacht
<@83652604344664064> do we always consume coup in dance? and never outside?
consume when up, dont want to waste a window when you can get another up quickly, if u have one good to hold for mini burst phase
tepid trellis
you just rip it whenver its up
random hare
ya
vale pine
if you have a pull gathered -> you don't want to spend your time using rupture before going into cooldowns, and just send
void hound
shouldnt holding coup for dance be a gain if you only need to finish once with BP in ST?
solid yacht
We always running trickster every boss next raid?
vale pine
shouldnt holding coup for dance be a gain if you only need to finish once with B...
it was, but was neutral in the last patch
so not rly worth the effort anymroe
tepid trellis
what you care about is the flawless form stacks
shit makes sectech hit like a nuke
random hare
you always get 1 during the times they matter
wait like
if i were to eviscerate
i can just send it and it wouldnt matter if i want to use it later yea?
tepid trellis
consume it whenever its rdy
tepid trellis
strikes/backstab
vale pine
you get stacks from backstab/strike - with a internal cooldown of ~20 seconds
vale pine
and you get 2 stacks guaranteed after using secret from your next strike/bs
tepid trellis
it has an ICD and we have 2 talents that grants you free stacks free from that ICD one being from Sectech other being from random resets through SnD
vale pine
it is why using secret first is also good, you stack it up
random hare
i see
tepid trellis
only thing you need to be careful about with Coup
is it HAS to be used on fazed target
tepid trellis
otherwise do not press it
tepid trellis
supercharge Sectech
swift tinsel
To supercharge sectech
tepid trellis
all you care about
random hare
even the 2nd one?
tepid trellis
yes
random hare
very important yea?
tepid trellis
supercharging coup does nothing
random hare
even if i lose symbols midway
shell willow
@vale pine I've been sending flag then finishing then dance/sod > ss > blades and sectech
random hare
its whatever still ye?
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> I've been sending flag then finishing then dance/sod > ss ...
thats correct
tepid trellis
you extend symbols when you strike
vale pine
you can flag-finish-cooldowns
tepid trellis
it lasts long
vale pine
or flag-dance-finish is fine too
shell willow
The wowhead guide has a section on cds with flag and symbols
tepid trellis
!cds
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
swift tinsel
Should be close to being in pandemic range when you hit your 2nd dance
swift tinsel
!dance
vale pine
haha
swift tinsel
Lmao
bleak night
random hare
we still use secret technique then blades in season 2 yea? idk if things changed on that
void hound
random hare
1 second after ya?
shell willow
My question is it worth it I'm subsequent windows to symbols then flag or just keep it as is
random hare
ideally
swift tinsel
As long as you blades before the clones hit
kindred saffron
o/
swift tinsel
Yea
tepid trellis
!burst
wicked joltBOT
During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends. You do not
want to cast Symbols of Death at the same time as your second Shadow Dance, but rather 1 or 2 seconds later when Secret Technique has
10 seconds or less remaining. This is to make sure you supercharge the Secret Technique instead of an Eviscerate.
Because of this a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.
random hare
so i can press blades 0.1 seconds before the 1+1.3 second happens?
void hound
we still use secret technique then blades in season 2 yea? idk if things changed...
essentially you use shadow blades one global earlier, afer consuming premed, but before pressing sec tec i imagine
lean jewel
!wa
random hare
@tepid trellis !!!
are we pressing secret technique then 0.9 sec later shadowblades?
tepid trellis
doesent really matter can press just before or just after you press it
all you care about is having both sectechs land inside of it
swift tinsel
I kinda just “roll” the key presses and it works well
solid yacht
yes the shadowblades 20% dam buff applies to sec tec in 11.1
so need to use in the window
chrome palm
I wish they would swap goremaw and dark brews spot in the tree :(
tepid trellis
pretty free to get off regardless, blade is 15sec and 2x dance is 16
dusty totem
Would it make sense to macro blades to the sec tec without cold blood?
vale pine
if you want to min/max you wouldn't even macro cold blood to secret
using cold blood for your second secret is a optimization
dusty totem
I have two macros
dusty totem
So i would macro blades only to sec tech not also to cold blood
sacred relic
hello fellow backstabbers, noobish question but I can't seem to find an answer. I haven't played sub since SL, but if memory serves, you use SecTec with 4 danse macabre, and now you don't? looking at rotation guides, seems like it's not the way anymore? if so why not?
uneven scarab
hello fellow backstabbers, noobish question but I can't seem to find an answer. ...
We dont play around danse stacks
tepid trellis
hero talents and cdr changes
uneven scarab
Anymore
sacred relic
We dont play around danse stacks
that explains a lot then, ty
random hare
@tepid trellis can we flag early?
tepid trellis
and removal of shadowdust
uneven scarab
Yeah dust changed alot
random hare
and make double secret techniques hit big
tepid trellis
it lasts 24 sec
so yeah you could
doesent work that well on single target since you dont really generate cps that well outside of dance
but also flag stacks quick
i usually just do flag-finisher-dance+strike
shit
sacred relic
so is the play now to do conflag stacks, like ol venthyr?
sleek sun
How is sub compared to assa difficulty wise?
tepid trellis
its a different type of difficulty
vale pine
subtlety should be harder to initially learn, but as stealthi mentioned it is all about good cooldown management
sleek sun
Assa st feels very simple, but aoe sometimes becomes a hassle
upper plinth
Me, an Outlaw, who never really heard the word CD management aside from maybe holding vanish or AR for a downtime phase
leaden prairie
Me, an Outlaw, who never really heard the word CD management aside from maybe ho...
dw about it
its all fake
sleek sun
Outlaw just doesnt look like it has the numbers next patch, tho my biger issue with it is not using daggers
leaden prairie
cd specs like to jerk themselves off about cd management
in the end you just press on cd
bleak night
sudden bison
jorkin it
uneven scarab
cd specs like to jerk themselves off about cd management
go press bte 8 times in a row
leaden prairie
no i dont thiunk i will
uneven scarab
leaden prairie
im a sub one trick now
uneven scarab
What a time we live in
teal prawn
im a sub one trick now
shell willow
Lol what a time to be alive
teal prawn
That's very real
leaden prairie
no wae man
leaden prairie
I swear !
leaden prairie
1h !
leaden prairie
ye
i was about to go ptr
i just need to take a shower quick
say 10 then we play ?
ornate lake
Sin rotation is fucking bland. Like a boiled chicken with no seasoning
ornate lake
Envenom: The game
uneven scarab
Adrenaline rush
ornate lake
That's why I kinda lived nightstalker snapshotting
leaden prairie
No?
solid yacht
Any coupe de grace on fazed WA?
ornate lake
Made Kingsbane fun
leaden prairie
Like imagine if you could rupture mouseover with 3 more yards
uneven scarab
How is acro any more fun 
leaden prairie
Banger no?
uneven scarab
Cringe tbh
leaden prairie
I just came up with that idea
ornate lake
Blindside is the only fun proc in sin now. But it's not played in M+
upper plinth
wow Acro. What an awesome idea. Maybe Blizz will implement it. wait oh they removed it? sucks
uneven scarab
upper plinth
nah that sucked hard. Was the reason i never tried to learn sub
uneven scarab
it was so fun when you figured out good ways to use it tho
But it was definitely unhealthy
For the game
upper plinth
as much as i get that it was a nightmare if you wanted to learn the spec
random hare
say 10 then we play ?
ok
okok
wanna double sub rogue
i wanna compare our dps
@leaden prairie
shell willow
@random hare lol put him in the ground
random hare
we always play together thats why we play on a similar high level
u can learn what ur doing wrong
shell willow
Yeah competition is nice sharpens your skills
upper plinth
i fear the moment i play sub on a new boss and all that i learned the last couple of days will just poof and vanish and leave me with a blank mind
ornate lake
What are the chances of a one trick assa main (last 4 expansions) learning the current sub and NOT doing aug evoker level damage?
How's the skill cap?
tepid trellis
not bad
random hare
Yeah competition is nice sharpens your skills
idk idc rly
sinful zephyr
Are there any dungeons in season 2 that are nice for the first dance, like dawnbreaker or city of threads?
tepid trellis
too bad we lost one the absolute greats when it comes to sub rogue after DF
upper plinth
u can learn what ur doing wrong
wish i had friends i could do that with even though i dont do m+ near your level
viral phoenix
Are there any dungeons in season 2 that are nice for the first dance, like dawn...
theater has lots of portal travel/walking TFD up on a lot of packs
sinful zephyr
theater has lots of portal travel/walking TFD up on a lot of packs
ok sounds nice
vale pine
What are the chances of a one trick assa main (last 4 expansions) learning the c...
your damage is fine once you learned the core cooldown management
hazy breach
The thing about tfd is that Wm is not good on ST and does nothing on aoe
So most dungeons are gonna have enough resets just by virtue of how the dungeons are
viral phoenix
is there a dungeon in S1 that ISN'T good with TFD? it's in on all dungeons right?
hazy breach
Like grim batol for example, youll get it after dragons and after each boss
At absolute worst
sinful zephyr
the more the better..I really like that talent from many points of view
upper plinth
Is the Rupture application of Replicating Shadows smart? so does it prefer targets that to not have rupture on it when spreading to 1 additional target?
hazy breach
Yes
upper plinth
nice
How many rupture do i spread on average in m+ while fighting the pack? while gathering the pull i guess as much as possible
uneven scarab
Yeah pretty much just do it until the group is gathered
Better to go into cd’s asap
haughty mural
so we back at eviscerating till 8 targets
upper plinth
after CDs are over and the pack still lifes. just Shuriken > BP / Evis or try to re rupture? or does that even happen?
uneven scarab
If youll get actual value out of rupture than rupture
But otherwise just storm evisc ya
upper plinth
If youll get actual value out of rupture than rupture
i dont quite get that
uneven scarab
if the mobs will live a majoirty of the length of the ruptures duration
Otherwise its not worth it
upper plinth
ah okay sry
uneven scarab
Nah np np
tepid trellis
so we back at eviscerating till 8 targets
7
thick temple
Am I wrong to assume I just run the same gameplan that I've had for past month when 11.1 drops
uneven scarab
Its still good though
thick temple
Like no rotation changes
uneven scarab
thats correct ye
upper plinth
But isnt it better to be better baseline than have an OP tier set you'll lose after the season ends?
tepid trellis
then they just buff it the patch after it
uneven scarab
maybe but they can always buff it next patch
tepid trellis
doesent really matter
uneven scarab
Yeah
upper plinth
i guess youre right. as long as they dont nerf baseline to "fix" it with tier
uneven scarab
I think the assa buffs are funnier though
completely just 0 goals in mind
buff random abilities
upper plinth
Buffing bleeds but not so much that they really matter
uneven scarab
Arterial change makes basically 0 sense also
random comet
The arterial one is even weirder than the precise cuts buff for outlaw
At least you know what they were trying for with that one
viral phoenix
even with tier nerf is it still worth to try to preserve high stack counts at like the end of a pack or if the situation calls for it?
like not degen sending 25 seconds of rupture but if a pack is dying super soon or something and we're not sending another shadow dance send some ruptures?
viral phoenix
aight sounds good
steel zinc
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
@upper plinth still at the dummies?
young path
is it just me or is tricks bugging in PTR?
lilac stag
multiple people have said so. Report it
paper stirrup
is it really true i should hold cold blood for second st during flag, even though i lose out on cooldown uptime?
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
upper plinth
<@282868307537952775> still at the dummies?
until an hour ago yeah. little pause to learn a bit for my university exam tomorrow xD
tidal chasm
the trinkets all seem so meh for us this season
lilac stag
there are 2 good ones
upper plinth
Best way to get that muscle memory is to hit the dummy (for hours xD)
lilac stag
Be glad we got a 90 second trinket
keen dome
Studying for Rogue and studying for Uni? Hell yeah, nice going
lilac stag
There wasn’t one until a few weeks ago
tidal chasm
there are 2 good ones
they're all barely better than transmitter
lilac stag
and transmitter will get nerfed again more than likely
keen dome
Transmiter will probably get nerfed again, yeah
And also no minigame which, in sims, isn't an issue but in reality can be a huge pain
lilac stag
or it’s one less item to farm. Win either way.
tidal chasm
& a s2 hero track shadow binding knife is like in our top 5 trinket comps in s2
lilac stag
and?
keen dome
At least we'll have easy bracketless trinkets eventually since both of the 'best' are raid drops iirc
lilac stag
people say hero track like it’s a bad thing, but then want to farm a dungeon 60 times for a hero track trinket or pray for a mythic all season from the vault.
We have two very good trinkets.
keen dome
And they're actually, if the Dinar system comes in at a reasonable timeframe, accessible this time.
lilac stag
assa literally playing two hero dungeon trinkets and praying for vault in s1
keen dome
Ask me about my normal Transmitter
lilac stag
If you’re not clearing last 3 bosses in mythic, guess what hero track is gonna be your life
keen dome
Until the dinar, anyway
lilac stag
mmhm
keen dome
And then you'll actually be able to get an ilevel capped trinket. Priase be.
Huge gains
tulip gorge
assuming the dinar is even coming 
upper plinth
Ask me about my normal Transmitter
havent seen the trinket all season long (not that i was interested as outlaw but still)
keen dome
assuming the dinar is even coming <:LOLW:1118257747696304138>
let me pray
lilac stag
shell willow
@upper plinthi feel you just a hero track transmitter
keen dome
I've killed Ky'veza every single week on Heroic this season. I've done every single TW and dungeon event. I've 6/6'd my vault every week. I have seen: 2? 3? transmitters drop in the entire season. The normal one I have is from a timewalking box lmao
The loot system is such trash
Also valorstones suck. This isn't connected to trinkets. Just they suck and I hate them right now.
tulip gorge
can't wait to get get passed for house of cards because I'm a trial raider
lilac stag
I've killed Ky'veza every single week on Heroic this season. I've done every sin...
The problem is you didn’t do the plunderstorm loot box
keen dome
The problem is you didn’t do the plunderstorm loot box
I DID
lilac stag
Noted
keen dome
It's really funny
I had it happen a few weeks later too when I took some gloves from vault for transmog. And then the timewalking box gave me the same fucking item
lilac stag
Some how my mythic raid is for queen didn’t lock me. Ended up pugging first couple. Finally got mythic shoulders.
tulip gorge
I had it happen a few weeks later too when I took some gloves from vault for tra...
this is why you first open the box, then pick vault item
upper plinth
I hope that i get House and Eye just because im the best player in my guild. Not that this is a flex in a 6/8 guild...
when do i get to a guild thats CE capable...
keen dome
this is why you first open the box, then pick vault item
Yeah absolutely, it's just so funny
tepid trellis
I hope that i get House and Eye just because im the best player in my guild. Not...
when you join one?
upper plinth
got turned down every time because i dont have a 7/8 or CE under my belt
And beeing german is not a helpful factor
tulip gorge
got turned down every time because i dont have a 7/8 or CE under my belt
I don't have them either but I still get messaged by CE guilds 
bleak night
just gotta keep trying, if your logs are good there are definitely CE guilds that are willing to give you a try
upper plinth
As Outlaw my logs are good. Havent played the other specs. Want to change that the upcoming season
tulip gorge
As Outlaw my logs are good. Havent played the other specs. Want to change that t...
found the problem
keen dome
You'll get there. Just keep at it.
upper plinth
found the problem <:LOLW:1118257747696304138>
that kinda breaks my heart a little 😄 why everyone hating on my pirate. Its only because your jealous of my 0.8gcd
lilac stag
And beeing german is not a helpful factor
Being outlaw logs is likely more of a factor than being zerman
tulip gorge
that kinda breaks my heart a little 😄 why everyone hating on my pirate. Its onl...
I am an outlaw enjoyer too, but unfortunately that spec is not that great in raid
keen dome
You'll get some blastin' sub logs this season 
tepid trellis
its like applying to a guild with survival logs
tulip gorge
as a rogue I think you should strive to master all 3 specs
upper plinth
Being outlaw logs is likely more of a factor than being zerman
meant that as a limiting factor in my search for guilds. im not that fluid in speaking english. am better in writing
lilac stag
if you’re legit looking to get in, crank your assa logs since sub can be hit or miss due to population size
random hare
@leaden prairie btw i think
we have to stack full vers
because this is my first time not stacking full vers
i kept dying from random shit i didnt expect to die from ngl
upper plinth
as a rogue I think you should strive to master all 3 specs
want to start that by playing sub this season. lets see how it goes
leaden prairie
thats cause its a 15 and you dont know the keys yet
random hare
also cheat death is ass
leaden prairie
its normal to die
random hare
nah i know the key
not with this low vers tho
kinda tried it for first time
usually i play elusiveness
tulip gorge
elusiveness with no gcd feint is too good