subtlety

[tribal blade]

here's a random make a wish log from the other night

this one actually had 5 of my guildies in here

[proven plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

Nice damage

I should really fix my Mythic Ulgrax parse but it's so funny...

[tribal blade]

omfg naturally

[random hare]

@hazy breach how big of a dps loss is it to not hold consuming winning streak before cds by 20 sec

and just spam finishers on trickster

because sometimes i have to hold longer than that

[tribal blade]

he said roughly 1%

[random hare]

is it

ok

[worn cape]

Also, why does DS not care about stacks?

[random hare]

mark dmg

[tribal blade]

i was very surprised it's only 1% difference when stopping evis/bp 20 secs before next flag and just playing normally

[worn cape]

Sorry, could you explain more. I don't think I understand. Is it because you need evis to apply DN to continue cycling marks and so you still want to use it outside of dance?

[tribal blade]

DS doesn't care about the tier stacks like trickster because trickster has more damage in cds than DS

at least that's what i assume

[clever delta]

Man another season with not fixed sectech is wild

Poor akari soul at bottom

[tribal blade]

bro they need to shoot sectec

and start over

with a brand new spell

it's just problem after problem

[worn cape]

inb4 they are planning to rework sub*

[tribal blade]

same with shadowed finishers

just a rework so that it actually works and isn't a buggy mess

like making it our damage instead of pets would be a start

[clever delta]

Yeah

[shy ermine]

i think that's the cause of most of it

[tribal blade]

it honestly is yeah

[shy ermine]

why does our biggest nuke as a sub rogue consist of a pet nuking the ground around you

[tulip gorge]

because the ability says you summon clones

[worn cape]

When you are your own pets

[autumn flame]

Nah haha be happy with the log ofc one of the few fun parts with farm

Still stuck on a 95 log on Ovi

But yeah the smallies just gets blown up

[tribal blade]

dude the number 1 log is wild

what in the holy fuck is this

this is some coordinated shenanigans right here

it's actually impressive they were able to get off that many infests and only have 2 players die over it

[keen dome]

lmao

Zac really likes those little wormy guys, I guess

[tribal blade]

this is like triple the amount of parasites than a regular log

madness

[keen dome]

it owns

[vale pine]

looks like trying to ceese logs

[keen dome]

The boss is now parasites

[tribal blade]

100%, crazy

[keen dome]

Ovi'nax is the trash mob

[vale pine]

I kind of disslike how certain damage is removed from logs

i rather remove the entire fight if its too high impact

or keep it in the statistic to not falsify data

[leaden prairie]

it was just accidental btw

we just didnt do any cc

[tribal blade]

oh was it? damn

mb, i took 1 look and assumed it was on purpose haha

[leaden prairie]

I mean

its on purpose i guess but not on purpose

[tribal blade]

i get what you mean 😉

part of doing a yolo kill

[keen dome]

Pure chaos kill, I love it

[autumn flame]

Yeah it's ridiculous looked at our last log and I think we had 1/4 of their parasite dmg

[warm goblet]

right now on live playing trickster, is there a way to get 3x SecTech within flag window or am I daydreaming? i think i've read that somewhere but i might be wayyy off

[hazy breach]

Thats from before they removed dust

[tribal blade]

don't need to play that anymore

[warm goblet]

well ye makes sense now, ty

[vernal junco]

ah

rip dust

[worthy axle]

in PTR as trick do you spam black powder?

[golden kelp]

on +5/+6 mobs you do, don't remember which exactly

[tribal blade]

on 5+ yeah

[warm goblet]

I guess this just wasn't updated? (taken from wowhead guide)

https://i.imgur.com/vlOdjBF.png

[vestal escarp]

fucking bp on trickster

shit so ass

[golden kelp]

Do eviscerates from nimble flurry benefit from find weakness?

[vestal escarp]

the other targets needs to have FW up, for both evis (shadow and non)

[golden kelp]

Ah ok, just asking since Nimble Flurry has it's own "damage pool" like Blade Flurry and I remember there were similar interactions there where Blade Flurry did not benefit from finishers buffs/amps.

[vestal escarp]

debuffs on your target are not cleaved by flurries, flurry targets need to have em too

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[turbid depot]

is this a guide or something? wehre can i read morea bout it

[warm goblet]

from wowhead

but it seemingly is out of date

(that part specifically)

[turbid depot]

thx

[vale pine]

oh possible, should be updated with the season 2 changes to the guilde (which comes next week)

[warm goblet]

all good brother, your guide is excellent regardless

[turbid depot]

yo i'm preping to play sub for next tier, should i take a look at the 11.0.7 guide or i just wait for the 11.1? is it alot different?

[vale pine]

The gameplay is almost identical, the main diffrence is i re-wrote parts of the optimization section for season 2 because some paragraphs seemed either unclear or dated.

the main gameplay change in season 2 is with the tier set

think of it like this

you do big burst every 1 min 30

and you stop using evis once you do your last burst cycle before going into the next 1 min 30 cooldown

(means you only use rupture/snd)

[remote shuttle]

Yo guys, any rumor about tier set fixes? Do you think they will send s2 live with bugged set?

[vale pine]

it sounds worse than it actually is

[vale pine]

they still have more than a week to fix things, but we will see

[shrewd grail]

dw

[remote shuttle]

Your honest opinion bud?

[shrewd grail]

they'll fix in 11.X.5

[remote shuttle]

I mean... What do you feel? You think we'll be playing couple weeks like it is now?

[vale pine]

i think the tier set 4 bonus migth see a slight nerf

but tuning was not done

and the first week is no raid

so its not that relevant

team has essentially oen week to figure out what they need to fix and tune

[remote shuttle]

Wish they will somehow find a solution... Thanks for the infos fuu

[alpine wraith]

unlikely they nerf tier 4

because our baseline is very bad

so maybe what happens is if they nerf anything at all other specs also get nerfed

we will have a good first week tho if they fix 4p at least

[vestal escarp]

best case scenario is they nerf 4p and buff evis

[autumn flame]

That's really unintuitive

[vale pine]

it kinda is

[autumn flame]

Love sub but shit like this makes me wonder what blizz are cooking sometimes

[vale pine]

well not rly

its like

"hey tier set stacks are good"

"lets rather not use spells that lose you stacks between your last set of "smaller" cooldowns and the next "bigger cooldown window"

[autumn flame]

No yeah I get that

How many % is that optimization?

[haughty mural]

idk i dont mind it anymore

think it switches things up

but im a degen

[vestal escarp]

idk about you

but delaying coup one builder cause you gotta play that cringe FW is degen

[haughty mural]

that i agree with

[vale pine]

was quite a bit

[vestal escarp]

only for powder dmg

cause for nimble as long as your target has FW you're gucci

[haughty mural]

i mean i think we can all agree that FW is just horrible

or shadowed finisher

[vestal escarp]

rotten fix could make that more bearable

[haughty mural]

interaction with fw

[vestal escarp]

since you can send all strikes after sectech

[haughty mural]

most defo

[autumn flame]

Thinking of certain windows where maybe a add has to die etc etc

[haughty mural]

rotten fix would be great

[vale pine]

its more that most of your damage is in cooldowns

you essentially do no damage outside

think of it like a pulse graph

https://tenor.com/view/heartbeat-pulse-gif-15494139

[autumn flame]

Yeah ik

[vale pine]

^ this is subtlety

[vestal escarp]

either rotten or an evis buff to make more leverage between bp target count and trickster is perfect

[autumn flame]

Just more for prog scenarios

[vale pine]

you have short cooldowns you can fairly dynamically use

like

1 min 30 is fixed

but you have a bit of leeway to use cooldowns between because of stacks

[haughty mural]

optimal i think would be if bp overtakes at 8+

i agree

makes a lot more sense

[vestal escarp]

where it should be by tooltip?

[haughty mural]

yea

[vestal escarp]

[haughty mural]

[vale pine]

i think 5+ is fine

[haughty mural]

IF rotten is fixed then it can stay that way for sure 🙂 also agree

[vale pine]

haha

i mean the most "fun" gameplay is to use storm once during cooldowns

[vestal escarp]

purple fart for trickster has 0 interaction the less i press it the more i feel better

[vale pine]

"so you use storm on aoe"

"yes, kind of"

[autumn flame]

Yeye I get all that I'm talking more of a niche case where and add has to die but you don't want hit evis

[vale pine]

"so i storm"

"yes, but ONLY once during cooldowns"

"ONLY once???"

"Correct"

[haughty mural]

pray that ur team does it

[vale pine]

"SOOO, i use strike after that???????"

[autumn flame]

Aye I guess

[vale pine]

"yes, perfectly logical, isn't it?"

[autumn flame]

Wich is cooked

[vale pine]

and then

[haughty mural]

sure it is - TOP arena will be fun for sub

not

and banner

[vale pine]

"actually you strike first, then storm"

[autumn flame]

"why did you not evis"

Uhhhhh

But muh stacks

[haughty mural]

yea

[vale pine]

because of rotten bug

[autumn flame]

[vale pine]

which exists since... i think idk need to look

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[haughty mural]

"why did you not evis"
muh stacks AND it wouldnt do dmg anyway

[vale pine]

i guess, a while

[autumn flame]

Sure still more than a rupture Wich would be the argument

[haughty mural]

argument is still meh

but i also argue a lot with friends when they cant believe we do so little dmg outside everything

[vale pine]

ye i mean

you evis for coup

sooo

[haughty mural]

then i send them screenshots of my backstab crits

[vale pine]

from classic ofc?

[upper plinth]

Heard the wowhead Guide is Not quite Up to date. Is one of the linked Written Guides updated? Want to learn sub for S2

[vale pine]

It is up to date, just some minor diffrences i ironed out for s2 which will release somewhere next week

[slate lantern]

Gameplay will be identical for the time being til 4p, so it is fine for learning now

[autumn flame]

Sure but then that one add survives with like 500k

[upper plinth]

Ah ok then the one that mentioned it must have been mistaken

[haughty mural]

Fair

[upper plinth]

So i can use the wowhead Guide + the Pins Here to learn?

[autumn flame]

Probably won't matter ofc

But just the thought makes me

[timber walrus]

so for the full combo, sub needs to have 2x symbols and 2x dance? To get to 2nd, cold blooded sectec?

[upper plinth]

In the wowhead Guide is says that current Tier makes ST the 1st Finisher in SD. Does this Change with S2 Tier?

[vale pine]

yes

just follow the rotation section and you should be fine

there are only minor changes to the gameplay, as eleem highlighted in the pins

and i just some messages above mentioned

[hazy breach]

Ye 5+ is fine, but then nimble should be capped at 4/ 5 imo, since it should be clear that its time to swap to BP.

Like nimble being up to 8 targets but doing less on 5 feels really odd

[vale pine]

agree

its weird

just not intuitive, like most of our kit ^^

[hardy snow]

coup is one cast but 3 or more checks for tier drop?

[cerulean stream]

wait wat. we spam ruptures for 25 seconds? jfc

[hazy breach]

Also known as replacing one or two eviscerates with rupture

[lilac stag]

People really need to just go on the ptr. Legit seem clueless with how little energy there is at that point to do anything.

I think at most I had 3 finishers with good rng

[hazy breach]

And one of those is gonna be rupture either way

Because you need to refresh it

So its

[lilac stag]

Yep

I mentioned earlier, I could do without another if/then cd timer to be aware of.

That’s more irritating than hitting rupture or snd

[keen dome]

I just went and hit a dummy on live and counted how many non-Dance Evis's I send between Flag windows and went "oh."

It feels like it'd be a lot but then it's just.. nothing

[leaden prairie]

i forgot

do i always strike with trickster

[lilac stag]

pretty sure it’s a combo of people either returning to the game or legit not touching the spec in s1

[leaden prairie]

apart from that one shuriken

[lilac stag]

Yes

[hazy breach]

Yep

[leaden prairie]

ok

[random hare]

pretty sure 1 hour tricks doesnt work man

[hazy breach]

Strike do big dam

[random hare]

theres no way

[hazy breach]

Storm big stinky

[random hare]

how do i get aggro

[leaden prairie]

press tricks

noob

[random hare]

thats like

[lilac stag]

You have to reapply tricks and transfer aggro at some point during the initial

[random hare]

10 seconds into the pull

thats even

after i pressed 2nd secret tech

[lilac stag]

Is the DH even pushing buttons? 3m?

[leaden prairie]

tricks from trickster is bugged anywya

I never died from tricks not working but when i was using trickster tricks

[sour forum]

Outlaw doesnt deal enough dmg to take agro 💨

[tribal blade]

i've died to taking aggro with tricks up, last time it happened was on heroic queen

[leaden prairie]

i dont think there is a spec as explosive as outlaw in term of agro so

[haughty mural]

just use shroud cdr

[sour forum]

Just a joooke

[lilac stag]

have you tried vanish? Install threat plates?

[sour forum]

But i died on queen p2 spooders a few times with tricks up mid pull

[leaden prairie]

skill issue

[keen dome]

I assume if Trick requires some instance of damage and you immediately dance, it's possible it just causes it to get turboweird?

[tribal blade]

that last time i pulled aggro on some pug tank i was in dance AND had tricks up

[lilac stag]

at some point the tank actually has to hit the shit

[swift tinsel]

I thought dance was supposed to have a big negative-threat modifier

[lilac stag]

ain’t no way a big pull vdh is only pulling 3m

[tribal blade]

it should, but i somehow just ripped threat

[keen dome]

Yeah, but only during it. So if you assumably tricks -> dance -> dps -> dance ends. It might cause some shenanigans

Going with how weirdly it's all setup

[swift tinsel]

Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case

[timber walrus]

even on 8+ targets?

[lilac stag]

evasion harder

[swift tinsel]

True

[lilac stag]

Yes

Storm is useless

[leaden prairie]

even on 20 !

[tribal blade]

i just realized you have 2 people from 2 seperate rank 1 teams in that key

[swift tinsel]

One miiiiillion

[timber walrus]

outlaw seems like milion times easier to play after i read all the things sub need to do to dps xD

just react

[sour forum]

Wdym, just dont use finishers for 25 seconds

Looks like a healthy gameplay style

[dry plank]

i just do not understand how our tier set give us +30% and old one is 12ish and we are above average right now and new tier set not set our damage into the moon? where do we lost damage?

[jaunty heath]

You use finishers

Rupture is a finisher

[sour forum]

Ah yes, mb

[hazy breach]

We didnt lose damage

Other classes just gained more

[lilac stag]

Our base dmg is shit. Everyone else got reworked and buffed.

[tribal blade]

have you seen all the buffs other specs are getting

[dry plank]

gained where? from scaling? and we do not scale?

[hazy breach]

Buffs

[tribal blade]

there has been a lot of tuning

[dry plank]

ahhh nice i see i see thanks now everything is correct

[lilac stag]

Exhibit A: unannounced buffs

[keen dome]

Fury can have a big damage day as a treat

[tribal blade]

huge warr buffs

[hazy breach]

Idk shoud i change the wording so its replace one or two eviscerates with rupture?

[lilac stag]

most spec got significant buffs with the talent changes.

[dry plank]

i just saw complains in dragon disc that their tier set gives 10% and subs got +30% and blizz need to nerf sub rogues which sims lower xD

[keen dome]

Whereas our damage is just even more consolidated within the big burst

[sour forum]

Hey outlaw got like 3 lines of changes 💪

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

Could have both.

[sour forum]

No, its fine i was just being a smart ass

[tribal blade]

you guys got changes?

[lilac stag]

Sub got 3. All PvP nerfs

[keen dome]

Shadowy Duel... 🥀

[tribal blade]

at least we got bug fixes

[hazy breach]

Cant add more text because i dont have ultra mega nitro so the message is pretty much capped

[dry plank]

you did a great job man, even such dumb person as me understand everything

[sour forum]

Im looking forward to play sub again, after assa this tier

[lilac stag]

They’re going to take our tokens angle

[hazy breach]

Nah i have the cheap nitro version because i want the emote stuff

[tribal blade]

fair enough 😉

[hazy breach]

The other one seemed superfluous

[tribal blade]

i have no nitro

i'm a basic bitch

[lilac stag]

Could do a bot command. !winning

[keen dome]

You could cut the following deathstalker bit in half which might give you room?

I..e, just "just use finisher as usual." for DS

[sour forum]

Used to have cheap version, then twitch had a promo with 3 months of nitro for 1 sub

Now i kinda gave up on it

[swift tinsel]

“Cast ‘1-2 extra’ ruptures instead” fit?

[lilac stag]

Not clear enough

MY EVISCERATES

WHY?!?

[keen dome]

Hit dummy, count how many times you evis. Wisdom will arrive.

[swift tinsel]

But that takes away possible dooming fodder

How will they survive?!

[keen dome]

I will fight the Dooming with a plank of positive wood

[lilac stag]

I wonder how many will jump ship after week one, when either a) spec needs some thinking while playing or b) assa gets buffed 4 times

[swift tinsel]

Sounds hot

[keen dome]

80% imo

I think we'll pick up some cool new Sub players who really dig the spec, though.

[swift tinsel]

Anyone who rerolled after never playing rogue

There’s been a few popping up the last few days who sound excited to play it

[lilac stag]

we couldn’t recruit one, rogue arc continues. Alt Mad Bomber.

[keen dome]

I would absolutely bet that the fall off for most fotm rerollers is 80 - 90% over a week or two. Because most people just leap onto it without really understanidng the why it's good, just that it is good

Like, in general

[swift tinsel]

For sure, that happens with most of them in my guild

[keen dome]

Would be super interesting data to look at actually but I'm not sure how you collect it.

[swift tinsel]

Or they play it for normal/early heroic and switch

[tribal blade]

sub tends to have participation similar to arcane mage

where people will only play it if it's the absolute best

[lilac stag]

no one in echo wants to alt one.

[tribal blade]

and will jump ship quick

[lilac stag]

“wtf is this shit”

[tribal blade]

kush is the only psychopath who really loves it

[swift tinsel]

I tried explaining sub to a guild mate and they told me “no” after I got to how you decide to dance/sod or not lol

[tribal blade]

you mean i can't just press buttons as they come off cd?

[swift tinsel]

“You kinda have to count backwards every so often to know if you’re safe”

“No.”

[keen dome]

haha

Gotta think two or three in front. And also keep in mind boss mechanics and what's coming up, and also your overall burst timing, and also

[swift tinsel]

“You can maybe send dance here if you know you can get the extra cdr from coup”

[lilac stag]

Yeah but your tier set is 30%

[tribal blade]

but why think when i can

[torpid snow]

is this what my dmg after dungeon should look like?

ara +10

[lilac stag]

more BP

[swift tinsel]

I tried ret recently and it’s so unenjoyable

[torpid snow]

Black powder ?

[swift tinsel]

You just jkdkaksjj damage with no thought whatsoever

[lilac stag]

mhmm

[swift tinsel]

And it’s spammy as fuck

[lilac stag]

5+ targets is BP instead of evis, if you get FW out on them (storm is second builder in dance)

[molten citrus]

whaaat

you can just slam fist into your keyboard its a vibe

[torpid snow]

FW ?

[lilac stag]

ret is enjoyable if you actually use your utility

[molten citrus]

[lilac stag]

Find Weakness

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

You’re constantly flooded with holy power so nothing feels like it means anything

[lilac stag]

have you tried spending your holy power?

[swift tinsel]

And your builders do almost as much as your spenders so what’s the point

And you have wings constantly

[lilac stag]

outlaw vibes

[keen dome]

The few times I've tried Ret I just didn't find it engaging. But then I see a buddy who just does utterly absurd damage and go "no fair"

[swift tinsel]

It’s the ultimate hekili spec

Idk I just don’t find that fun

[vestal escarp]

Ret is literally functioning and better ol

[torpid snow]

if I have active FW, do I throw evi? if not then BP?

[lilac stag]

I enjoy playing with healers who swap to ret. Their use of utility is cracked

[vestal escarp]

No cds, uncapped, always dmg

[lilac stag]

What?

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah, one of my buddies is a hpal main and swaps to ret sometimes. Realllly fucking good utility play all the time

[torpid snow]

when should I press evi during AOE rotation only if I have FW active?

[lilac stag]

4 targets or less

BP is 5 targets or more

[torpid snow]

and when FW is inactive, do I press BP?

so it doesn't depend on FW?

[lilac stag]

you need to use second charge of Rotten to spread FW to all targets with Shuriken Storm

[lilac stag]

you made a mistake. fix mistake

if you’re still in dance just strike and evis and go again next dance

[swift tinsel]

#DeleteFindWeakness

[torpid snow]

Is learning rotations from your sims a good idea? I know it says not to make suggestions

[lilac stag]

Drop tornado

Read guides

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[vale pine]

should be fine

but as scath mentioned, the easiets way is just to look at the rotation guides, e.g. for single target Deathstalker

we will play trickster next patch, so you can skip deathstalker tho^^

[clever delta]

Man just looking at new raid and sub look perfect for it

Random adds spawn which need to be blasted

[vestal escarp]

[barren tree]

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[fathom gazelle]

any WA expert here? im using whysper WA as sub and it doesnt track my x3 charges of symbols any solution?

[lilac stag]

@teal coral ^

[teal coral]

would need to add another text and stuff

will update in a couple days along with assa tweaks

[slate marlin]

even on m+?

[teal coral]

before season launch for sure

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker is fine on aoe

But i wouldnt recommend it

[slate marlin]

thank god i didnt want to play with mark

[vale pine]

trickster everywhere

[bleak night]

wtf did mark do

[hazy breach]

He hasnt completed cold harbour yet. The work is mysterious and important

[vale pine]

poor mark, he did nothing wrong

[lilac stag]

[torpid snow]

in the next patch I hope that assa will still be better...

[uneven scarab]

[jaunty heath]

You can just play sin what’s stopping you

[bleak night]

probably mark

[vale pine]

why

i hope we see more diversity

[jaunty heath]

What did Meta do now again

[vale pine]

assassiantion is now since s4 DF the only played rogue spec

[jaunty heath]

Cancel Facebook already

[fathom gazelle]

kk ty

[torpid snow]

I simply have more fun playing ass or outlaw

[bleak night]

i hope everything is equally viable and everyone can play whatever they want in any level of content

[vale pine]

but does that mean that other specs should not be competitive

[torpid snow]

oh yes utlaw s4 df I love going

[vale pine]

so that you can play assa?

[golden kelp]

are the current 4set bugs taken into account for the 33% dmg gain on our 4set in pins?

[vale pine]

for me it would be a clear no, it is never good if you only have one dominant spec which does everything best

but opinions on this might differ

[golden kelp]

ah

[molten citrus]

so just play them yo

[crystal bone]

even if 1 spec was outperforming the other, by say 10%, wouldn't this only really matter in a race to world first scenario?

or at least race for hall of fame

[lilac stag]

Then play them.

Sub isn’t busted.

[molten citrus]

even for lower HoF it doesn't matter really

[lilac stag]

No one forcing you to play it.

[molten citrus]

top ~20WR it matters maybe

some shit like that

[hazy breach]

Its almost never 10%

It usually way less

[molten citrus]

that as well

[crystal bone]

yeah so for the vast majority its play what u enjoy

[molten citrus]

especially in ST/raid

[bleak night]

not true my ego forces me to play whatever sims highest

sorry i dont make the rules

[lilac stag]

man I don’t get the forced to play a spec feeling

[swift tinsel]

It’s Dunning-Kruger, people feel like they’re at a level where it matters but it doesn’t

[molten citrus]

if sub burst is WAY better for a fight or two, i can see why you'd feel forced during prog

[slate marlin]

sry bel, mark wants you to play ds sub without shaman buff

[molten citrus]

but if you aren't clearing the entire raid in the first ~1month it doesn't matter usually

[jaunty heath]

I wouldn’t even say that
Some people just play for big numbers it’s what’s fun to them

I can see that

I know multiple people that play the game because big number = fun

[crystal bone]

agreed

[molten citrus]

i played sub in Sepulcher, but i definitely didn't HAVE to

[bleak night]

i dont know enough about sub to even know what that implies

get fucked mark

[lilac stag]

Playing a game and being miserable on the spec you’re playing. Big brain play.

[hazy breach]

Even if youre not in a top guild more damage is more helpful. Its more a case of people feeling like the different between specs is way bigger than it actually is

[molten citrus]

before that i only really progged as sin, like in SoD

[hazy breach]

So might as well play something you enjoy

[slate marlin]

Imagine playing assa forgetting to apply poisons, almost that

[molten citrus]

but i also enjoyed tf out of learning and progging as sub

[swift tinsel]

Idk I’m a gameplay > numbers guy

[hazy breach]

Not to mention you'll likely to do more damage on something you enjoy/are comfortable with than something you got forced to play, barring extreme outliers

[bleak night]

in the past there were times when i felt bad not playing whatever spec was best because it felt like i wasnt doing everything i could to help work towards progression

[jaunty heath]

I get that, I know people that enjoy numbers only tho, idk why they are like that but if it’s fun to them idm

[topaz egret]

Does Sub 4P work yet on PTR

[bleak night]

then i realized i suck enough on everything else that i should just play whatever im best at anyway

[molten citrus]

the bugs are in the pins

[lilac stag]

Details in pins. It kinda works.

[alpine wraith]

just dont be unlucky

dog

[swift tinsel]

Based

[uneven scarab]

Just hit the gamba

[lilac stag]

even if sub sims higher, most are gonna preform better on assa. Just be that way

[uneven scarab]

Insane this tier didnt have enough rng so they had to make the 4pc randomly not work on sectech for even more

[swift tinsel]

True immersion

[lilac stag]

scarizard just wanted to revisit the last rng shit show tier set sub had from his hand

[swift tinsel]

I, too, enjoy 95% blades uptime

[lilac stag]

I almost blocked that entire tier out of my head, then watched the interview with max

[swift tinsel]

I think I mostly played outlaw that tier

their bonus with blunderbuss leggo was pretty fun

[uneven scarab]

Blunderbuss was cool

I also played law that tier

[austere zodiac]

how did sub rotation change

in ptr

[swift tinsel]

really leaned into the gunslinger fantasy lol

[uneven scarab]

Did not like sub then

oh yeah

[uneven scarab]

didnt

plays the same

[vernal junco]

sub has a spy theme, so it should use a gun too to further differentiate it from assa

[lilac stag]

it’s a ninja mate

Not a spy

[vernal junco]

fine.

[uneven scarab]

we are the masters of shadow

Assa little poison nature boy

[bleak night]

it does have a spy on its talent tree art tbf

but nothing else about the spec screams spy whatsoever

[lilac stag]

Dave is not a spy

[vernal junco]

ninja also kind of spy

[swift tinsel]

Dave is a sneaky ninja

[bleak night]

shaw is a spy

dave is in a bush

[uneven scarab]

wish we could get another quest line like the legion rogue hall one

actually got be a rogue out in the open world

[vernal junco]

I used to think rogues should have a ranged spec since hunters already have a melee one.

[uneven scarab]

Outlaw

[swift tinsel]

or like the Fangs of the Father chain

[uneven scarab]

[steel zinc]

no

[uneven scarab]

Yeah that was a really good one too

nothing felt as good getting that raven

[swift tinsel]

anything that lets us actually use our full toolkit

[uneven scarab]

and feeling so badass about it

[bleak night]

outlaw dual pistol spec with evoker range

[vernal junco]

Having only one ranged physical DPS feels strange, and sub and assa feel quite similar.

[swift tinsel]

100%

[bleak night]

when blizzard

[steel zinc]

sub has seen all play for all endbosses during rwf since DF S1

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vernal junco]

sub is too perfect for raiding.

[alpine wraith]

being able to control where you use cds

is good

[steel zinc]

its damage profile is insane

If there is any damage amp boss sub is bis

[uneven scarab]

burst specs do very well in raid usually

[steel zinc]

first boss ill call it now all sub rogues will be top logs all season if the tierset stays this way

[fathom gazelle]

if im gonna play assa + sub next tier , and for gearing wise what stat should be nuetral for both?

[uneven scarab]

Mastery

[alpine wraith]

not always but lately blizz always has bosses with hard phases

[uneven scarab]

very good for both

[steel zinc]

assa doesnt care for stats and likes mastery

[alpine wraith]

where burst helps

[fathom gazelle]

yeh both likes mastrey but paired with what crit or vers?

[swift tinsel]

probably a mix of both

[uneven scarab]

vers better for sub

Crit better for assa

[swift tinsel]

sub doesn't hate crit, and vers is pretty good for all

[steel zinc]

again assa doesnt care about stats that much

[jaunty heath]

I hate crit

What now

[swift tinsel]

Skill dif

[vernal junco]

They might as well make sub more bursty, like a Mastery that says, "Damage dealt outside of Stealth -100%, but damage dealt in Stealth +XXX%."

[uneven scarab]

just natty crit with like 0 crit anyway

Get better

[swift tinsel]

gospel truth

[fathom gazelle]

for st assa likes haste with mastrey and for aoe its crit mastrey

[uneven scarab]

Not necessarily

[jaunty heath]

It’s a 50/50 anyways

Right

[vestal escarp]

10k haste is 2 apm

it doesnt matter at all

[uneven scarab]

It either happens or it doesnt

Aint wrong

[steel zinc]

again

it doesnt matter

ask whispyr if you dont trust

[uneven scarab]

Assa is ALWAYS >ilvl everything

shit just loves stats

[steel zinc]

yup

[uneven scarab]

doesn’t matter what

[jaunty heath]

Sin‘s a glory hole

[uneven scarab]

[vernal junco]

The worst are still for outlaw

20% haste crap

[uneven scarab]

yeah its kinda annoying

[midnight river]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vernal junco]

It feels like it's the year 5202, and we still have to get enough Hit Rating.

[paper iron]

we love haste tax

we love taxes

[fathom gazelle]

do i need to keep track of coupa del ray thingy or is it just a passive thing?

coup de grace*

[swift tinsel]

you should

[fathom gazelle]

and whento use it ? inside sd only?

[swift tinsel]

with fazed up

[worthy axle]

!guides

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[midnight river]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[lilac stag]

@hazy breach or @vale pine did either of you happen to try to use transmitter & cards forcing the second trinket around the 45 second mark with dance/symbols? just curious if the double on use has any merit with how much is cd windows.

[tepid trellis]

normal dances dont actually do that much

[lilac stag]

yeah just a blimp in comparison

but idk with passives they still seem meh

was curious what the robot would think

[hazy breach]

I havent checked no

But i cant imagine it being good with how obscene eye of kezan seems

[clever delta]

What the eye of kezan do

[kind bluff]

Double on use takes away from big windows by not having a static gain trinket like eye

[hazy breach]

And ye even without eye the passive agility onto your big burst is probably worth more than juicing a small burst

[hazy breach]

Ramps up stacks that does damage and gives a ton of stats

I dont think theres a single dps that doesnt have it as their best trinket by a fair bit

[vestal escarp]

it's a huge amount of flat primary

[crystal bone]

which boss does it come from?

[hazy breach]

It might get nerfed though, when i did sims there was like 8 options that all simmed roughly the same

[swift tinsel]

Last boss

[hazy breach]

But eye of kezan just +2% to all of them

[crystal bone]

that figures

[hazy breach]

Ye gallywix

[crystal bone]

[swift tinsel]

is it a rare drop too? idr

[hazy breach]

Dont think so

[swift tinsel]

just jastor

[hazy breach]

Think thats the ring

[swift tinsel]

iirc

yeah

[tulip trail]

It still won't ever drop though

[swift tinsel]

I could see it getting nerfed then

if its stat budget is that much higher, though it'll lose value once fight timers get down to 2-3min

but probably not by much

[hazy breach]

.7 gonna introduce the coins so everybody can buy their eye of kezan

[swift tinsel]

eye and house are my two soft reserves but I feel like that'll be everyone in raid lol

unless they luck out with access to a cantrip wep

[lilac stag]

usually everything is on there

[clever delta]

Haha can't wait for rwf guilds doing 9997 splits so everyone have this trinket on his main

[hazy breach]

[swift tinsel]

I'll have to use my dinar on trinkets bc I won't ever see those bosses on mythic most likely lol

[alpine wraith]

they already nerfed ring quite a b it

wonder if they buff other trinkets

[hazy breach]

Possibly but more likely they nerf kezan a bit

Like i said most other trinket seems to be fine

[alpine wraith]

because tbh trinket power has been so noodle

[hazy breach]

Assuming simc implementations isnt cooked

[alpine wraith]

lots of specs still have spymaster's or transmitter close

[swift tinsel]

Zee''s has been showing up on sims for me as passable alternative

[vestal escarp]

GOON

[swift tinsel]

but that's most likely an artifact of my current gear not being great

[vestal escarp]

SQUAD

[hazy breach]

They also buffed it

[swift tinsel]

628 gang

[alpine wraith]

it is not a bad trink

and we run quite a bit of vers

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I secretly hoped it was good lol

its kinda neat thematically

and switches what attacks they use based on target count

[alpine wraith]

i kinda liked grim codex because how it ended up

[lilac stag]

Funnel goons. FUNNEL

[alpine wraith]

but seems just in the middle of the pack

it is kinda cool you end up burst then snap the scythe

[swift tinsel]

Yeah it wasn't actually that terrible if you played it around your shadow amps

[alpine wraith]

we wont play deathstalker likely tho

[swift tinsel]

positioning was a bit picky tho

yeah, I'm not mad about that lol

[alpine wraith]

yea it is not a huge frontal

[swift tinsel]

the cone felt super narrow

almost like a line lol

[alpine wraith]

it is the same ability as the boss

[swift tinsel]

v shallow too

[alpine wraith]

so yea not huge range

[swift tinsel]

deathbringer dk rp trinket

scythe swingin

[lilac stag]

our long time DK is going enhance. Been a minute since we’ve had an enhance

[swift tinsel]

both of our longtime dks switched too, its weird

one went ww and the other is fury

our enh switches between that and resto a bunch but I think we recruited 2 rsham

[hardy snow]

instead of getting an extra stack during dance, it would provide 5 stacks instead when gaining dance.
during ST the tier would work fine due to less frequent finishers, but not in m+.

[uneven scarab]

our mt since forever is playing warlock now, quite nervous about how the tanking side of raid is gonna go

[swift tinsel]

we're extremely lucky and have a pool of like 5 in the guild who are really good

one of them plays bear and does insane damage, no one can figure out how

[bleak night]

damn

dude said fuck this shit and went warlock

i respect it

[uneven scarab]

He’s been tanking for us since nathria

[dry plank]

so many rerolls these days, why are you here bois?

[uneven scarab]

i dont really mind him wanting to swap but hes just very good at bdk so i’ll miss that

[swift tinsel]

really good bdk's are a wonder

[leaden prairie]

trickster

bp

[uneven scarab]

Absolutely

[leaden prairie]

target count

[uneven scarab]

My healers hate him

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[uneven scarab]

But i love him

[uneven scarab]

5+ cuh

[leaden prairie]

ty

[alpine wraith]

he is trying to bait for sure now

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[alpine wraith]

or maybe summoning zeross now

[vestal escarp]

go zac

[swift tinsel]

I'm waiting for the screenshot

[vestal escarp]

sandbag for us

make us proud

[alpine wraith]

remember to use storm once!

[vestal escarp]

it's strike sextech storm bp!!

[jaunty heath]

Sextech

Im down

Let’s go

[swift tinsel]

Sextech ultimatum?

[uneven scarab]

sectech and hextech are too close

[swift tinsel]

they really are, I screw them up in my head all the time lol

[uneven scarab]

Same LOL

[lilac stag]

Seggstech

[uneven scarab]

Eggstech

[jaunty heath]

Eggstech?

Damn

[uneven scarab]

[jaunty heath]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-we-one-gif-18212100

[uneven scarab]

Got em

[lilac stag]

just like eggs in America. The clones have disappeared along with your dmg

[jaunty heath]

Guys it’s just so secret that no one knows when they decide to hit

thematic

[swift tinsel]

or for how much!

[hazy breach]

Clarification on the Tier set gameplay change:
During the 25 seconds before is ready sub is practically afk, even without the tier set. So swapping s for in this scenario realistically just means replace one or two eviscerates with ruptures on ST and 3, maybe 4 s during aoe. It does not feel horrible to play despite how awful it might seem at first glance. The payoff is having an enormous burst that is significantly stronger than Season 1 subs burst.

[swift tinsel]

sometimes they split the difference

[wary apex]

Are we also thinking about rupturing over evisc during any potential gap between the two dances in flag

[uneven scarab]

Eleem cooking with gas 🔥

[wary apex]

To not drop WS there as well

[hazy breach]

Not worth in a dummy scenario

[tepid trellis]

should not be a gap

[hazy breach]

Oh wait

[lilac stag]

Nerf Sub. Dave is op.

[hazy breach]

You mean in blades? Ye there shouldnt be any gap

You should dance immediately once the first one ends, even now in season 1

[wary apex]

So we send the second dance even if SecTech still has CD

[swift tinsel]

yes

[uneven scarab]

Yes

[wary apex]

OK tyvm

[tepid trellis]

it comes back mid 2nd dance

[uneven scarab]

u wait to send the sod till u can supercharge the tech

also

[tepid trellis]

at like 3rd finisher

[hazy breach]

Yep dont symbols until sectech has 10s left on its cd to make sure you can supercharge it

[clever delta]

why ppl talkin about this dinar

isnt it like super far in season

[lilac stag]

no buffs, enchants, etc.

[hazy breach]

Probably coming after the .7 patch ye, so pretty far

[lilac stag]

my guess is once HoF is done. they seem to want to use it to help guilds progress

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/buddy-elf-big-one-gif-27174870

[keen dome]

mount damage. A sheer cliff to climb, then a little slide

[lilac stag]

this is the interesting part. i'm at least 10y away from the dummy hitting a tunip. logs registered this:

[wary apex]

I think I know the answer but it's stupid to macro SoD with SecTech yes

[tepid trellis]

yes

[lilac stag]

yes

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lilac stag]

!cb

[wicked jolt]

• Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
  When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
  (yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.

[hazy breach]

I wouldnt say its stupid, but its better to not have them macroed

I dont think theres a command for the dance+symbols thing

Maybe i should make one

[wary apex]

Ty all

[lilac stag]

4 more days til bot spam begins

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[clever delta]

my eyes

[hardy snow]

how is that only 4 BP for 25s in aoe...? 4BP is like only 8s?

[hazy breach]

If you had infinite energy yes

[molten citrus]

iirc the way the said it during the interview was that .7 seems too far out, and maybe they'll do it sooner. but i'd assume .5 at the earliest.

[vernal junco]

what's that kir icon?

[alpine wraith]

you can use a dance too likely in aoe

[hazy breach]

And never refreshed your ruptures

[alpine wraith]

so it is not strictly 25 secs

[lilac stag]

Tier

[alpine wraith]

it ends up being less than 10 secs

i mean best thing you can do sometimes is tell people to try it

they would notice it quite fast

[vestal escarp]

what about sod?

you cant send stuff before flag

[clever delta]

light version of fuu sheet on my UWD monitor is criminal

[alpine wraith]

it depends on the pull too

[hardy snow]

yea, already counting that, 8s in 25s and you have full energy after dance and you have 17s for rupture and that's 8 rupts.

and if you just rupt, idk what kind of energy you have

[alpine wraith]

make it 4 or so because energy kinda

you kinda get used to

you can try it on the 5 target dummiesd

[clever delta]

or just get lucky with stacks and dont hold

[hardy snow]

5 target dummies you use your tech

[vestal escarp]

sending one dance charge without sod right before flag?

[hardy snow]

and sometimes you cannot get full cp and you ofc are limited by energy

[vestal escarp]

you're lucky if you send 2 bps

[hazy breach]

!burst

[wicked jolt]

During your Flagellation and Shadow Blades you want your second Shadow Dance to be cast immediately after the first one ends, despite Secret Technique not being ready.
Secret Technique will come up during the second dance, and you want to make sure that it will be supercharged. To do this hold onto Symbols of Death and use it when Secret Technique
has 10s or less left of its cooldown.
This is why a Shadow Dance+Symbols of Death macro is not ideal.

[hazy breach]

Seems fine ye?

[lilac stag]

No pretty icons?

[hardy snow]

and i can log on now and do ST+BP for 17s and you can now guess how many

[hazy breach]

Dont think i can get the bot to use them

[lilac stag]

interesting

[swift tinsel]

Sounds clear enough to me

[vale pine]

we can iterate over pins and stuff before s2 start to support everything ^^

[leaden prairie]

new pin wtf

not reading

[alpine wraith]

you get leftover SoDs from out of combat time take it as in the 60-70 also has a dance one more or less

after that one you have like 8 or 10 secs putting ruptures or just building for flag

[lilac stag]

Yeah but does your sheet have updated assa sims?

[alpine wraith]

but also if you are like 20 secs from flag and are about to begin the pull

you also have a first dance

[uneven scarab]

Nah dont let them have em they cant handle the truth

[vale pine]

[alpine wraith]

you get plenty of cdr and would cap dances if you did all those finishers

so you send one unless you misplayed and used too many SoDs you should have 2 for cds

[swift tinsel]

"apl just updated an hour ago why don't you have them yet"

[lilac stag]

I’m still baffled by that one

[swift tinsel]

rabblerabblerabble

[hardy snow]

it is actually quite horrible if you actually doing 17s rupt, and it is very difficult to justify it to other party members why you're doing nothing basically and not trying to help finalise the mobs at close.

[lilac stag]

Mfers need to go in other discords and see how gatekept sims are

[hazy breach]

Then dont

[hardy snow]

dont what?

[alpine wraith]

that is why best thing you can do is log in and check but from doing like 100h in ptr you get used to

[hazy breach]

Then just send bps

Risk losing the buff

[lilac stag]

it’s a gamba tier

[swift tinsel]

then explain on the next pull why you're basically doing nothing

bc you lost your stacks

[alpine wraith]

yea begin next pull with -90% dmg on finishers

that will show them

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/no-whammy-glasses-gif-14636782

[keen dome]

And what, you'd be, at most, dropping.. 400k damage? 500k? To do way way mroe.

[alpine wraith]

a funny thing tho is the ruptures may do more dmg than the bps

[hardy snow]

yea, it makes you in a difficult position, on one hand you are dragging the timer because you're "prepare" for next pull with your flag rupt for the rest of current pull, on the other hand if you send bp your party members will ask why you do less damage with your full cds.

[lilac stag]

Just ask the shaman why the pack isnt dead already. Quit ing

[alpine wraith]

i mean it is how the spec works

[torn storm]

yall be talking to your groupmates about damage mid pack??

[alpine wraith]

you dont need to go full on philosopy mode

[swift tinsel]

if you're the sole reason a pull is dragging your party has big problems

[alpine wraith]

same reason why people played with venthyr boomkins

[uneven scarab]

[hazy breach]

Its literally the exact same thing shamans have been doing this entire tier with their tempest

[vale pine]

poor shamans

[alpine wraith]

or unholy dks etc

yea man POOLING

mages too

and those hunters imagine

tbh it does have a cool side of

I GOT THIS ONE BOYS

[uneven scarab]

How dare you not use flag on a mob with 2 million hp left

[hazy breach]

But like. Sub is doing 0 damage there anyway

[uneven scarab]

My key!!!

[hardy snow]

maybe the similar behaviour but at which level of "afk"?

[open vortex]

Within the 25s how many stacks can you get on average? Idk if im unlucky but when I was just sending evis/bp until like 30s left on flag and my stacks reset, most of the time I only got 4-5 by the time I started my burst

[lilac stag]

or just play assa and let the dots blow up when shit dies

[alpine wraith]

maybe it is time to have the macro like fire mages had in BFA

where it says FLAG IS READY

[hazy breach]

Sure if you BP you'll do 500k dps instead of 200k

[hardy snow]

Sub is doing ~0 while they're pooling but?

[alpine wraith]

DONT USE CDS

[hazy breach]

But the others are doing 3M

[hardy snow]

exactly the diffference

it is not the exactly the same thing at all.

[hazy breach]

Idk why i even respond to you when you dont even read my responses. Mb

[alpine wraith]

yea 4-5 stacks can be ok

[uneven scarab]

You cant do all the damage in cooldowns and outside of them

[hardy snow]

since you read mine and you know i already read your responses.

[alpine wraith]

ideally you dont drop them that late but it is what it is

[uneven scarab]

Its how sub plays man

Its no different than how its played

Your just pooling stacks for damage in dance

[keen dome]

If you're at a level where you suddenly doing 300k less damage between CD's is enough to break the key, I feel you wouldn't be playing Sub there anyway?

[uneven scarab]

Rather than pressing a 300k eviscerate you wont even notice in details

Youre pressing rupture

[lilac stag]

We don’t do shit outside of CDs. It’s davelyfe

[vestal escarp]

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

[lilac stag]

if that’s a problem, Dave is not the spec for you.

[open vortex]

Ah okay thank you, just felt kinda suspect to drop a max stack like that and not get like max by the time of cds.

[alpine wraith]

yea just imagine if you dropped them like 10 secs or less before flag

[tepid trellis]

pack thinned out so now you are doing Eviscerates instead, bring out them noodle evis's

[alpine wraith]

it would be even worse

[hardy snow]

and for some reason we're dropping stacks like 1.5x or 2x than outlaw with similar or less or a bit more finisher rate

[alpine wraith]

you can have deadass 1 stack if you are unlucky

[lilac stag]

Our two big finishers have multiple hits with multiple rolls

we are gamba

Rawr

[hardy snow]

i thought that problem has been fixed otherwise we drop stacks every time we cast them

[keen dome]

Goblin spec this season.

[lilac stag]

Read the pins mate. Not fixed

[swift tinsel]

they fixed the shadowed finishers part

that's different

[lilac stag]

Or

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[swift tinsel]

coup is 3x eviscs

[hardy snow]

not using trickster

[hazy breach]

Would you rather:
A. Eviscerate and deal 500k damage
B. Get a 50% buff to your eviscerates doing 6M during cds

[tepid trellis]

a goth girl aint an option?

damn

shit

Guess ill go with B then

[lilac stag]

only catgirl as option

[swift tinsel]

meow

[pliant topaz]

I too like my goth girls with plan B mashallah

[hazy breach]

Im not in the buisiness of distributing such things at this point in time.

[tepid trellis]

now see, if you said raccoon girl, then id be down

[alpine wraith]

can i put dino ears on the goth girl?

[void hound]

youre so real for this

[hardy snow]

why it cannot be 300k bp for 5-6 targets or even more at low hp?

[pliant topaz]

thank you, im a man of people. if people were thicc goth mommies

[uneven scarab]

?????

dawg WHAT

[alpine wraith]

you can gamba

maybe you are a winner

[keen dome]

Which would realistically mean you'd be doing less damage on the next pack which is worse, no?

[alpine wraith]

just dont drop stacks ez

[hardy snow]

the thing is 90s timeline, that's two pulls and like every 2nd pull when you finishes the dance you can use you are in a quite long/unpredicted window you know you cannot dance or BP or evis.
sending another dance would make your next cd with less dance and if you bp you would have quite a good chance having less stacks next cd

[hardy snow]

hey, im not the guy here telling what can be done. today i'm here saying it can be better and where is your #deleteFW spirit?

[keen dome]

huh?

[swift tinsel]

Have you really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[hardy snow]

you guys have the spirit of delete FW for like 2% downtime and now you guys are comfortable for rupt every now and then?

strange

[swift tinsel]

that's completely different

[keen dome]

It's dumb but I'd rather do 6M evis's in the next pack and kill them faster than send two~ noodle evis's and not really contribute much anyway

[alpine wraith]

well fw and shadowed finishers are still shitty things

[tepid trellis]

shit goes wild

[alpine wraith]

but a damage stack tier is what it is

[open vortex]

How many stacks on average does the sim go into CDs with?

[alpine wraith]

totally rng

[open vortex]

Love it

[alpine wraith]

depends when you drop the stacks

and then rng again on getting them

[hardy snow]

they only needs to change one thing: gaining dance provide 5 stacks instead of during dance you gain an extra stack when it happen

[alpine wraith]

so you want a 40% increase tier set

[bleak night]

yes

[hardy snow]

they can tune the numbers to 33%

[lilac stag]

I can if you send me the images.

[keen dome]

Prehistoric goths

[hardy snow]

but now they ruin the play and they believe it would be 33% if you behaviour silly

[uneven scarab]

Because the fw thing is pointless and the way it works in the current patch it just doesnt have synergy, It literally just exists. Rupturing for three globals before cooldowns is basically the same gameplay we have now lmao.. everyone here knows our damage outside of dance is horrible so sending a couple ruptures is whatever and doesnt really change shit about how we play

[lilac stag]

Dude Dino’s Santa hat pfp was a work of art.

[keen dome]

But they aren't ruining anything? It's literally swapping two worthless Evis's for a rupture or two and nothing else.

It's dumb but it's really not a big difference

[hazy breach]

Cant really tell but the average stack count is ~6.5ish

[alpine wraith]

it was funny

[lilac stag]

it fits the counterintuitive nature of how the spec plays. It’s not perfect, but none of us want to play a light em up and hit it button spec.

[hazy breach]

You get stacks during your dance too right

[hardy snow]

that's not the point. the point is the tier provides us a wrong way to protect our damage profile for the dance. The tier provides an extra stack based on rppm gaining with an RNG dropping.
if the goal is to buff our cds or dance, the protection should be more solid.

[clever delta]

cant wait to put bis on house of cards

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

[hazy breach]

So going into your burst with 7 isnt the end of the world as you'll almost surely have 9, and probably 10 by your second sectech anyway

[clever delta]

i guees i dont?

[open vortex]

Ah that’s higher than I usually am if I drop before ~25s

[alpine wraith]

nope you wont

[clever delta]

and just accept that im playing trans two tiers in row

[lilac stag]

How much more solid do you want? Legit we have full control of it.

[uneven scarab]

I just look at it as building up to a big hit, i dont see how its “wrong”

we have full control

[hazy breach]

I mean it also depends on when you danced

[uneven scarab]

Like scath said

If you want to just press bp than go ahead

[hardy snow]

what kind of full control you have with rppm?

[uneven scarab]

You dont “have to rupture”

Rppm of what?

[hardy snow]

you mean the rupt?

[clever delta]

i should be happy that i already carry my "best" trinket from s1 but this is cringe as fuck

[lilac stag]

🚨🚨🚨 PTR going down. 🚨🚨🚨

[tepid trellis]

you have control of not dropping the stacks

[swift tinsel]

WE'RE SO BACK

[uneven scarab]

What rppm are u talking about

[swift tinsel]

WEE WOO

[keen dome]

🙏

[swift tinsel]

lemme go get my bugtesting hat

[hazy breach]

Your choices are:

[hardy snow]

then why add the extra stack during dance then? if we have full control already

[lilac stag]

I can rupture and not lose stacks to stack the stack odds to line up with when damage actually matters.

[swift tinsel]

(its my cat)

[hazy breach]

A. Gamble
B. Dont gamble

[bleak night]

i 100000% expect it to get nerfed again once blizzzard sees people still using it

[uneven scarab]

ITS REALLY THIS SIMPLE GUYS

[keen dome]

big same thought

[bleak night]

they have been very strongly opposed to previous season gear being used in the next season for a while now

[uneven scarab]

^^^^

[clever delta]

yeah but nerfing it dosnt solve it for me