don't touch DS
#subtlety
open crystal
For the s2 playing DS or TS ?
lilac stag
Or they just buff assa and forget about sub
tepid trellis
seems on track for what usually happens
lilac stag
seems on track for what usually happens
They break the cycle one of these times… right? 
swift tinsel
CT dmg increases pertarget in the entire instance
clever delta
But what changed that we are so weak withnout our broken tier set?
There was no changes
As I'm aware
swift tinsel
our baseline damage without tier isn't great
lilac stag
You don’t grasp how strong the perma 10 was
tepid trellis
our current tier was also one of the better ones in the game
clever delta
Yeah but surely not 30%
swift tinsel
30% over no tier set
clever delta
So we losing on scale front compared to others again or
hazy breach
But what changed that we are so weak withnout our broken tier set?
We had no changes
Other classes got changes that made them better
clever delta
Well enha got nerfed
lilac stag
and it got brought down to S tier
clever delta
And rogue was on top of nerub right after shamans?
lilac stag
after you get rid of add pad, straight ST yes. Every other spec except BrM has had pretty major changes
tepid trellis
there is quite the gap
tepid trellis
its just sims man
swift tinsel
lilac stag
sims and literally every other class got changes
clever delta
well if it just sims than its dosnt matter to me
swift tinsel
fuck right off lmao
tepid trellis
sims never reflect actual performance
vale crane
Fury still kinda shit ngl
lilac stag
Not on PTR
clever delta
furry have their time during progress tho
torpid snow
I totally don't understand AOE rotation, when exactly should I use black powder?
dry plank
Wtf
hazy breach
I totally don't understand AOE rotation, when exactly should I use black powder?
Trickster: 5 or more
Deathstalker: 2 or more
strange chasm
Do we want to keep using reapplying or we are just using once in that 25s
swift tinsel
keep spending
swift tinsel
its more about the combo point usage and cdr than damage
hazy breach
are we doing anyy adjustments in m+ around that? Or is that strictly for ST
Its not ST exclusive no
vale pine
are we doing anyy adjustments in m+ around that? Or is that strictly for ST
both
oh, eleem was faster
hazy breach
Most of those are gonna be rupture anyway
vale pine
you don't press that much finishers during that time
so its rly not too bad
sounds worse than it actually is
swift tinsel
you truly don't notice the difference gameplay wise
strange chasm
Honestly doesn't seem to horrible. Blast during ur windows and then just afk
swift tinsel
you just press your rupture bind instead of your evisc
golden kelp
Yeah true
strange chasm
Is both sub and sin still looking to be pretty similar damage wise
swift tinsel
I was def in the camp of "oh no this is horrible" before I actually got on ptr and played it
vale pine
sin is currently a bit lower in output
but yes, rogue specs are still close-ish
tier set might need another buff for sin
also we don't know if sub tier set stays as is, as its quite big in dps gain
torpid snow
Trickster: 5 or more
Deathstalker: 2 or more
I only maintain SnD with eviscerate and I use backstab to apply find weakness?
golden kelp
I was def in the camp of "oh no this is horrible" before I actually got on ptr a...
yeah played abit too but think I'm too used to 4 set being bugged lol
hazy breach
Like say youre fighting 8 mobs. Then out of those 25 seconds like 11-14 of it (due to not being able to use every global) is gonna be about refreshing rupture and building to those, even without tier set
So even on aoe we are talking about like 4 finishers, which is obviously not nothing, but the damage we do outside cds is so low anyway
clever delta
im actually little bit scared what htey will last minute cook for us
swift tinsel
as long as they fix sectech bug I'm pretty okay with whatever they end up doing to the tier set.
unless they absolutely crater it
clever delta
it every season like that lately
we go into tier little bit broken with some last minute fix
swift tinsel
at this point it would take turning us into a 1 or 2min spec to make me not want to play it as much
or more bp buffs lol
clever delta
i would not be worried if im being assa enjoyer they will just do little correction to be decent raid spec
swift tinsel
idc about having it be relevant for trickster but if it takes over nimble being 8 targets then they should soft cap nimble at 5 and adjust the xfer dmg
golden kelp
Like say youre fighting 8 mobs. Then out of those 25 seconds like 11-14 of it (d...
yeah thats a good point
glacial hinge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steel zinc
Gotta link pls?
dry plank
but they made nimble physical?
SHADOWstrike is also physical. Thoughts?
keen dome
Should be purpler
twilit phoenix
SHADOWstrike is also physical. Thoughts?
absolute lunacy
ambush should be physical
latent finch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen yacht
Wait we are just using rupture with flag 25s lmao
Someone say sike? You just rupture when flag is 25s away in ST?
To ensure you don't drop high tier stacks before blades?
tepid trellis
swift tinsel
with 4pc yea
tepid trellis
the devs do still be around
swift tinsel
which are nice
keen yacht
I mean
I want dust back
I loved dust
cd's were FUCKED but thats not a dust thing
give me all the buttons
idgaf
mighty citrus
i know things change shortly but i thought tonight i just play sub so i get a bit of practice. could anybody look over what i did and tell me how to improve? 1st thing i directly saw myself was i used kb on first st not on second. but i would be happy if somebody could have a look https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zXhfrHF9Vt1v38Wx?fight=last&type=casts&source=14&view=events
keen yacht
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
edgy zenith
as long as they fix sectech bug I'm pretty okay with whatever they end up doing ...
what bug
swift tinsel
clones can lose 4pc shadow amp sometimes
edgy zenith
ew
swift tinsel
yeah its not ideal
edgy zenith
i know things change shortly but i thought tonight i just play sub so i get a bi...
looked at your bloodbound horror log, since the one you linked is cooked. nothing super noticeable honestly, not sure why your parse was so ass at first glance of button presses. missed a sectech usage around 1min, you can send it with just symbols on trickster.
uneven scarab
couldve been kill timings
mighty citrus
ty so far
mighty citrus
it went into the pool and i may walked out to fast
but good point, iam just not used to that trinket
need to care
edgy zenith
you can as trickster, ye
mighty citrus
thought we dont do that
edgy zenith
think of sending sectech with symbols usage, not dance
but as trickster you can send a non-danced sectech around 1min into the fight
not a lot of damage, but it's sometjhing
very very minor honestly
mighty citrus
okidoki thanks mate
edgy zenith
somewhere here is a symbols + sectech basically
you can fit an extra symbols as trickster
don't do that as DS though
also, DS will parse higher on the earlier bosses
mighty citrus
yeah as sub iam too bad for parsing anyway
just wanted to get into trickster
as i dont even like ds as sin
mighty citrus
iam one of the cray cray fb sin rogues
uneven scarab
I like fb but sad its so behind in aoe for sin
latent crown
!wa
jolly pasture
thanks
sly shore
wonder if they are ever gonna fix velf racial
mighty citrus
I like fb but sad its so behind in aoe for sin
except ovi you could really pull decent numbers though
vale pine
wonder if they are ever gonna fix velf racial
right after they make undead racial strong
simple garnet
what can i macro twin fang instruments to?
quick swan
Amen, give some love to undead
uneven scarab
True ive been waiting for touch of the grave buffs fr fr
quick swan
You know it’s shit when no one in the top 100 rogue all stars runs undead even once, even though its negligible
Im sure it extends past that too
molten citrus
right after they make undead racial strong
that would be sick
steel zinc
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
twilit phoenix
somewhere here is a symbols + sectech basically
incredible sub gameplay
jolly pasture
which macros are ok to use nowadays (ik its taboo topic)
hazy breach
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.maybe flag and symbols+symbols without macro? too much sht to press at once
pliant topaz
u dont wanna flag and symbols as often you do full cp -> flag -> rupture
and if u symbols u waste 1 supercharger on the rupture
drifting fable
ur telling me were spam rupturing on ST and AOE for 25 seconds
drifting fable
and u just sit afk
swift tinsel
no, you build and spend combo points
just on rupture or snd instead of a couple of eviscerates
swift tinsel
you don't have the energy regen to spam it
molten citrus
i think most people consider refreshing rupture pre-pandemic even once as "spamming" it
swift tinsel
steel horizon
wheat elk
i just got here after like 5 month, 1 question: we only use sec teq and evis during dance windows?
molten citrus
no
hazy breach
Mostly
molten citrus
oh do you mean like not pressing rupture
sly shore
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mental spire
What is the consensus on sending a Gloomblade during SD to gain an additional 6% from Danse Macabre?
mental spire
with my current gear (entry lvl) I lose 80k dmg from using Strike, immediately after my ST hits for an additional 20k dmg and then for the remaining duration of dance (5 secs roughly?) gain an addinal 6% from every builder finisher?
sorry I mean to say I lose 80k dmg from using Gloomblade over Strike
pliant topaz
that doenst seem real. lets take a look at a log together
this is annsies log from sikran
his recent one i think
tiemstamp is just a random dance outside of flag/ etc
avg shadowstrike hit is 810k
avg backstab is 200k
mental spire
OK if that is the case 6% of 810k is only 48k and you wouldnt recover the 610k back during the dance window
pliant topaz
it would effect 2 strikes, 2 evis, 1 sectech for abotut 6M damage
so the 6% would give him roughyl 360k damage
but hes loing 600k damage for it
additionally, strike gives more cps, which are also more valuable than backstab giving 1
mental spire
great answer thanks for the response I'm learning
pliant topaz
glad to help
willow pawn
hazy breach
Yes
mighty citrus
for some reason, my cb sectec macro is not working anymore. nice 😄 the game makes me playing correctly without it
no i need a new shortcut for it
it did not trigger once
on fight 2 hours ago it did
sullen hare
cb sectec isn't recommended anymore
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lilac stag
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
mighty citrus
cb sectec isn't recommended anymore
i know, but it strange it did work 2 hours before
and now it doesnt anymore
i restarted the game already
lilac stag
sullen hare
There's also that ^
mighty citrus
it is ^^ but i need to get rid anyway apparently
i just wonder what changed inbetween these 2 hours
lilac stag
it’s not.
sullen hare
Yeah I have a spare available keybind for it anyway so I'll be getting used to manually pressing it anyway
lilac stag
or you magically speced into Fatebound assa and fucked up everything.
steel horizon
And sectec finally benefits from shadowblades amp now right?
Well as of 11.1 anyway
mighty citrus
or you magically speced into Fatebound assa and fucked up everything.
i did kill queen on fb before yes
is this a thing? 😄
steel horizon
But yes it should be in the pins
I remember seeing it in the pins a couple weeks ago along with the RS bug fix but its gone now. Hopefully those fixes are still coming lol
lilac stag
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
sullen hare
I was just about to type that out scath haha
lilac stag
Spreadsheet has all the current fixes and open items
mighty citrus
mh how can i make it work again?
lilac stag
Spec out of FB. Restart game.
mighty citrus
ty
lilac stag
Your punishment for playing that shit
mighty citrus
why so mean
drifting fable
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When...
sloppy ass spec
sullen hare
Three bugs in a trench coat
copper linden
Am I overthinking this 25s rupture/afk thing? Was looking forward to switching to Sub. Not so sure anymore, seems like a lot of AFK. 1.5min flag cooldown so in a 8ish min fight youd be doing nothing for like 2ish minutes?
small juniper
just how it is man
all ur dmg is in cds anyways so u arent losing anything or missing out on pressing any exciting buttons
paper iron
Raz 
copper linden
is what it is, just at first glance it caught me off guard, wanted to make sure i understood
lilac stag
why so mean
You’re welcome 
small juniper
np
hazy breach
Am I overthinking this 25s rupture/afk thing? Was looking forward to switching ...
Its literally replacing one or two eviscerates
Even without tier sub is afk outside cds
small juniper
@hazy breach how much % increase is new 4 set over old 4 set
small juniper
i thought that was over no set
hazy breach
Maybe more like 23-24%
hazy breach
i thought that was over no set
Nah thats 33%
small juniper
ur pin is shit then buddy
wheat elk
Nah thats 33%
correct me if im wrong, we still do everything inside dance normally exepct when we are out of dance we only use rupture as our finisher correct?
wheat elk
ah
hazy breach
And again, were pretty much afk anyway
So its literally replacing one or two eviscerates with rupture or snd
wheat elk
i see, thanks
indigo steppe
Is there a recommended amount of stacks where it makes sense to then rupture and hold other finishers
Because if flag is on like 40s CD and I lose all my stacks then like do I rng it up til like 3 then only rupture till it's up?
viral phoenix
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
viral phoenix
does the second CB outside of cooldowns line up with a sec tech at all? Should we just send that with an evisc to keep the cooldown rolling? does the other CB matter at all?
hazy breach
You want to use CB immediately on CD
So either you purposefully line up dance+sectech for it or just send on whatever
Because every second you delay cb would be a second you delay flag
Which isnt good
haughty mural
Right
viral phoenix
And double checking the opener is basically the same except we wanna have shadowblades pressed for sec tech in PTR now? Does that mean shadow blades before Sec tech or shadow blades within half a second after pressing sec tech?
hazy breach
It doesnt matter, do either
Its also 1 second, not half
The clones hit after 1s and 1.3s
viral phoenix
Ok makes sense ty
are you not supposed to have any out of dance downtime during cooldowns with tierset? Like assuming no TFD you do first dance and immediately do 2nd dance and sec tech is like ~3rd finisher in that one?
paper iron
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
tepid trellis
are you not supposed to have any out of dance downtime during cooldowns with tie...
we do that even now on live
merry agate
bring back that bad boy if we have to spam rupture 
merry agate
make it 
hazy breach
But ye i would rather have a talent like that than veiltouched
tepid trellis
yeh hands up Eleem DO IT
hazy breach
Or any of the other non-talents we have
hazy breach
yeh hands up Eleem DO IT
merry agate
well 25 secs whats that anyway....2 maximum 3 ruptures... will probably feel a bit janky but we used to that
swift tinsel
Call John Blizzard, make it so
merry agate
aaaaand let it buff sectec instead of evis while we at it... create jank gameplay by design.... lean in! embrace the jank!
hazy breach
Besides redesigning the set bonus i dont see how they could remove the preserve the stack part
I guess nerfing it into the ground would work
small juniper
duration nerf
merry agate
yeah its just the logical conclusion to play like that i guess 
but we thought 3 charge symbols would be shit and it turned out pretty cool^^
we'll see
hazy breach
I mean the third symbols is pretty shit
swift tinsel
make it like ironfur outside of dance
hazy breach
They tied 3% damage onto it, thats why its alright
merry agate
I mean the third symbols is pretty shit
because naked sectec?
hazy breach
duration nerf
It doesnt have a duration
swift tinsel
make it 20 seconds and stacks don't add duration but act like ironfur and have their own
dance suspends timer
hazy breach
because naked sectec?
Well its mostly +1 cast of symbols across the fight
hazy breach
make it 20 seconds and stacks don't add duration but act like ironfur and have t...
I mean sure but that would qualify as a rework no?
small juniper
10 sec duration
swift tinsel
ehhh reimagining?
hazy breach
I mean that would only matter if you drop uptime
merry agate
we cookin realz is making notes right now!
swift tinsel
yeah they designed themselves into a dumb corner
small juniper
we cookin realz is making notes right now! <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
definitely isnt
merry agate
definitely isnt
let me dream man 
small juniper
my guy change 5 things and dipped
swift tinsel
the set either needs to be strong af in cooldowns and nothing outside of it, or have way less of an impact in cd's
hazy breach
Like the holding stuff isnt massively ahead in sims, on average its not that bad to just send it (like 1% or so worse)
swift tinsel
so that losing it doesn't completely bottom out our dmg
hazy breach
But in m+ theres no shot you'd use eviscerate outside of dance on a mob with 5% health right before a big pull and risk losing your stacks
small juniper
m+ as sub is gna be so fking calculated
hazy breach
Because the risk is so disproportionate to the reward
swift tinsel
the rupture gameplay lends itself well to aoe bc you're spreading ruptures outside dance anyways
small juniper
infinitely behind if u dont have a stable group to play with
vestal escarp
Just drop streak at 40-30 seconds so you feel compelled to press evis before flag
Tier fixed
swift tinsel
if it was like 1% instead of 3 and 2-3% instead of 6 I'd feel way less worried
hazy breach
infinitely behind if u dont have a stable group to play with
Already kinda is, but ye gonna be more pronounced
hazy breach
Wasnt worth when i checked in sims
small juniper
Already kinda is, but ye gonna be more pronounced
well ye any class that is all cds u need a group always
u cant sim for m+ eleem
u know that
hazy breach
yes
But my main point is that having 7+ stacks for a small dance doesnt matter that much
swift tinsel
I forget the -% of only rupture
swift tinsel
I think I simmed every 2sec interval between 0 and 60 lol
merry agate
im not that up to date but that whole blackpowder "every instance of damage has a chance to reset tier" shebang is fixed isnt it?
hazy breach
It is
swift tinsel
BP is way less resetti
merry agate
thank god
hazy breach
Not fixed for coup though, it still has 3 seperate hits that all can reset 
jaunty heath
make it hit 3 more times
vestal escarp
6?
jaunty heath
Split damage is very cool
merry agate
yeag i read that...well ist 3 evis casts technically isnt it xD
vestal escarp
Somehow
swift tinsel
isn't that the 400ms thing they added
there's some goofy pet attribution thing, scath said hunters were getting buggy shit with the tierset too
and its not like akaari's soul hasn't been problematic in the past
vestal escarp
Le buggy gaem
open vortex
i am excited to play sub
hazy breach
short radish
im excited to be able to play trickster full time again
slate lantern
i am scared of messing up my cd rotation after being an outlaw crack addict for many patches
tribal blade
Like the holding stuff isnt massively ahead in sims, on average its not that bad...
oh interesting
so if you just competely ignored the tier set and played like usual you wouldn't actually be inting your damage that much
hazy breach
On average no
tribal blade
but i'm guessing with the nature of fight encounters it'll be bigger
hazy breach
Always is
tribal blade
good to know it's not a massive difference
valid marsh
we have any sims out? ideas what spec will be best for prog?
bleak night
whichever one im playing
short radish
we have any sims out? ideas what spec will be best for prog?
the one you find most fun
tribal blade
whichever one im playing
you should go in the sin channel and @ whispyr
restive moth
you should go in the sin channel and @ whispyr
spark tusk
: )
chrome palm
edgy zenith
I noticed we're taking 1 point of finality instead of the rotten now
does that make our AoE worse?
becase no easy way to apply FW?
or would we take The Rotten in M+?
spark tusk
I see the rule for holding evis and such before flag to not drop stacks
what do you cast isntead?
rupture?
swift tinsel
yeah
spark tusk
Snd?
swift tinsel
or snd
spark tusk
ok
swift tinsel
its really only 3 finishers max in that 25sec window
spark tusk
Is there any reason to track stacks or tier set for any reason?
paper iron
drop off the keyboard and scroll some twitter during 25seconds
edgy zenith
but I would imagine there's no benefit since you're never dropping stacks
swift tinsel
Is there any reason to track stacks or tier set for any reason?
realistically you don't neeeeeed to
because the number of stacks doesn't really influence how you play
edgy zenith
wait so are we only casting evis in dance basically now?
spark tusk
Then there's no need to track, sounds good
swift tinsel
in dance, and out of dance up to 25sec left of flag cd
spark tusk
Probably will update flag to say if under 25 sec stop evising you ape
spark tusk
but otherwise no other updates
swift tinsel
essentially
the diff between playing normally and holding at 25sec is 1%
so you can choose to play safe or not, its really up to you
edgy zenith
so nothing changes until the sleeper part?
then you sleep and press rupture instead?
swift tinsel
you'll obv wanna keep track of dmg amp phases on fights and play your stacks around that
swift tinsel
so nothing changes until the sleeper part?
correct
and DS doesn't change gameplay at all, you just send finishers normally
because their burst windows don't benefit as much as trickster
swift tinsel
edgy zenith
sorry, too far
swift tinsel
honestly it doesn't feel any different than current play besides hitting rupture instead of evisc, you don't notice anything gameplay wise
and your damage is pretty eh outside dance anyways
so it sounds way worse than it really is
edgy zenith
yeah but pressing S-1 every finisher instead of 1 feels worse
swift tinsel
its realistically only 2
bc you'd likely be refreshing rupture in one of those finishers before flag anyways
spice matrix
25 seconds of ruptures 
swift tinsel
I think people vastly overestimate how many finishers you send in 25 sec outside of dance lol
(hint its max 3 of them)
swift tinsel
dang u right
edgy zenith
yeah now you get it
swift tinsel
I've seen the truth, the light
edgy zenith
[]
lilac stag
I think people vastly overestimate how many finishers you send in 25 sec outside...
almost like they could just test it on the ptr
swift tinsel
nah why do that when you can not do that
lilac stag
the only real negative is it’s one more if then to worry about
swift tinsel
yeah, not like we have any shortage of those already lol
lilac stag
From that standpoint it’s shit
swift tinsel
and it doesn't really make or break the spec unless you int a damage amp window
well yeah
uneven scarab
swift tinsel
rocky ocean
swift tinsel
Dave is hiding
short radish
but 2 extra hand stretches might bring on that carpal tunnel faster
i really need to unbind rupture from f3
upper plinth
Im trying to learn sub rn. Is it okay If i macro ST and CB together and Dance + SoD? For solo Symbols i would have separate keybind.
And how Bad would it be using this Marcos?
And would be still be using ST as First finiher in SD with new Tier?
swift tinsel
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
swift tinsel
Its recommended not to macro SoD + Dance because you don't always use them at the same time
or there are times you may have one or the other available but using it would make it so you don't have 2x sod/dance/sectech in your flag+blades window
which is the most important gameplay element for sub
swift tinsel
And would be still be using ST as First finiher in SD with new Tier?
sectech first or second, as long as you supercharge it
The first pin will explain the new tier nuances
upper plinth
Thats unfortunate but cant Help it guess. Thats quite a bit of Off GCD Keybind i need to Set. But Thanks for the answers and explanation 👍
swift tinsel
Of course!
Sub isn't a very macro-friendly spec
due to the nature of its cooldown reduction on dance and sectech, there's some flexibility on when they're available and you have to adjust accordingly
upper plinth
First time in years i try a new spec besides Outlaw. Much to Take in, Set Up and new muscle memory to learn rn. Fucking up my Opener a Lot rn
swift tinsel
It's very important to get your opener and big burst window down, we do a vast majority of our damage in flag+blades
def takes practice but once you get it down its super fun
do sky-high damage in our burst
there's usually people here happy to answer questions while you're figuring stuff out
upper plinth
Looking Forward to it. If i have any more questions i'll be Back 😅
swift tinsel
sub's a pretty unintuitive spec for a lot of people so don't feel bad if it takes a bit to click
slate lantern
I've been hitting the opener for hours on dummies and my brain still breaks when I'm getting transmitter going with everything else going on
And that's without anything else happening 😭
I know skyfury is v important but is it just in terms of numbers or even rotational feel, I can't remember
tribal blade
both
it's a massive dps increase and also you can 100% feel the difference
much more energy starved without it
and during dance+symbols you're much more likely to not fill your CPs with every builder
slate lantern
Yeah figured, so maybe I should just invite random shamans to my group when hitting dummies so I can get the buff 
upper plinth
Do i Press flag + SB on CD or do i delay for ST?
I know a normal SD you delay for ST but big CDs?
swift tinsel
you should always have secret technique ready for flag/blades, you generally stop casting sectech ~20sec left on flag's cooldown
!cooldowns
wicked joltBOT
Cooldown Use:
Every 90 seconds you want to cast Flagellation and subsequently Shadow Blades. When these two are up you always want cast 2 Symbols of Death, 2 Shadow Dances and 2 Secret Techniques.
To ensure you have enough cooldown reduction on your Shadow Dance to attain that you need atleast 1 charge and roughly 40 seconds left on your second charge before casting Flagellation.
upper plinth
you should always have secret technique ready for flag/blades, you generally sto...
Okay thats good to know. 25 sec before flag only Rupture or maybe one last ST.
Is there such a General Guideline for SD as well? Or Just need to pay Attention
swift tinsel
Okay thats good to know. 25 sec before flag only Rupture or maybe one last ST.
...
here's a general estimate of your cooldown useage from Hachadino's spreadsheet
upper plinth
Thats a massive Help thank you! Is the full spreadsheet available somewhere for free? Looking very helpfull
swift tinsel
the general idea is to "anchor" your symbols and dance use to sectech
swift tinsel
Thats a massive Help thank you! Is the full spreadsheet available somewhere for ...
he also has youtube videos, same with Eleem
might need to search "Eleem rogue wow" or something like that, his channel doesn't always pop up with just his name
upper plinth
Also good to know. Will Check them out
swift tinsel
Good luck!
jaunty heath
might need to search "Eleem rogue wow" or something like that, his channel doesn...
I had literally no idea. Thanks!
steel zinc
might need to search "Eleem rogue wow" or something like that, his channel doesn...
Eleem has yt?
proper latch
Does SB affect SecTec in 11.1?
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
sullen hare
that's the pulse on what is and isn't fixed
proper latch
So I can finally macro SD, SoD and SB
proper latch
I have separate hotkeys
sullen hare
sometimes people come into this discord and say that completely seriously
fair raptor
Anyone do some m+ testing in the ptr as Sub?
lilac stag
What’s the actual question?
fallow nimbus
Manually casting cb before sectec is exhausting but more dps 
lilac stag
Pro Tip: just keep your cb macro and add Sectech to a separate bind and use both
hollow spear
I have a cb sectec and a sectec button
vale pine
i would just
add a modifier to my secret
so if i hold shift
i would secret without cold blood
hollow spear
Tru
sullen hare
just put sectec on 7
lilac stag
jokes on you. Sectech is already shift
sullen hare
easiest fix of my entire lifetime
hollow spear
7
sullen hare
my sectec is alt+`
vale pine
1- strike/backstab
2- slice and dice
3 - rupture
4 - evis/bp(shift)
5 - secret
thats for me
lilac stag
Shift E (no cb). Shift R for cb
vale pine
i still have slice and dice bound ^^
lilac stag
Who doesn’t?
sullen hare
snd is mousewheel up for me
hollow spear
Shift e is shadowstep
vale pine
Who doesn’t?
idk, i would like to unbind it
fallow nimbus
Snd is p then click on snd
lilac stag
it’s useful for CDR in keys
vale pine
possible yes
sullen hare
yep, that's how I use it
cancel an active snd going to a boss just for a little more room to work with if I slopped a pack before
vale pine
but snd is in this weird position
its not passive entirely
but also kinda of passive
lilac stag
Sub is in this weird position
fallow nimbus
Do we still have the bar lag with strike and bs?
lilac stag
Yes
sullen hare
I'm just gonna assume that's there forever
hollow spear
Bs?
fallow nimbus
Gb is just bs with makeup
sullen hare
yea but at least gb knows how to do foundation
fallow nimbus
It needs a ton more to even be considered as barely beautiful
sullen hare
yeap, it's caked on
sullen hare
that's the least onerous requirement backstab has
vale pine
if they make gloomblade baseline and change the gloomblade node to be backstab, it would be better
would probably need some number adjustments on backstab but it would make the baseline cleaner
and give pvpers the option to get a jucy backstab
sullen hare
I can't argue with that
fallow nimbus
Or forget about bs and add some usefull talent
vale pine
Or forget about bs and add some usefull talent
think its for nostalgia reasons
hollow spear
Heresy
hollow spear
I'd choose anything over it
fallow nimbus
Bs should be the skill you get at lvl 10 then replace it at lvl 70 with gb
hollow spear
I hate positioning requirements
sullen hare
positioning requirements are exactly the thing that you need when you're arguing things like gloomblade
vale pine
I hate positioning requirements
same
sullen hare
I think the largest hurdle when it comes to positional requirements is fazed and yeah that's gonna take some time to work through
barren wolf
1- strike/backstab
2- slice and dice
3 - rupture
4 - evis/bp(shift)
5 - secret
t...
bro that snd on 2 is devious
you pressed snd once
what the fuck
sullen hare
I mean the bugs that have made their way around tit
barren wolf
YOU SHOULD UNBIND IT
fallow nimbus
I have strike on 1 and bs on 2 maybe i try a strike/bs on 2 with cb on 1
vale pine
haha
fallow nimbus
It's wierd because we have these micro offgcd cds that we don't macro
barren wolf
yes sub is fucked i want my sl sub back
sullen hare
yes sub is fucked i want my sl sub back
not gonna happen mister
vale pine
i have symbols on ^
alpine wraith
symbols on x
fallow nimbus
I have kick on 3 and vial on ^ i think vial needs to go then i can switch kick to ^ bp from 4 to 3 then sectec without cb to 4
kind edge
i have symbols on `^`
Im trying to figure how do u press it during the fights lol
fallow nimbus
tulip gorge
do you just press shift + 6 to get ^ or what
fallow nimbus
We have a eu keyboard the ^ is left from 1
vale pine
@sullen hare think its confusing because of keyboard layouts, this should make it clear
sullen hare
oh yeah that's WAY more reasonable
vale pine
haha, german layout ^^
fathom gazelle
hi im an old sub and watched wow head guide , in aoe we dont use bp?
kind edge
Ahhh ok makes sense now
vale pine
hi im an old sub and watched wow head guide , in aoe we dont use bp?
yes
we use bp in aoe
on 5+
kind edge
That key is my kick on focus target lol
fallow nimbus
~ is alt+gr on the # next to the Ä
sullen hare
that's my sectec so yeah it makes WAY more sense
vale pine
from wowhead ^^
fathom gazelle
from wowhead ^^
tysm was watching this one
vale pine
the opener depends on the target count
kind edge
Guys, any of u use the keybind shift+space bar? Im using it, but when i told it on discord with friends they was like “how the fuck i never thought about that????” Lol
tulip gorge
I don't
boreal dune
Guys, any of u use the keybind shift+space bar? Im using it, but when i told it ...
Been using it for mount since forever
fathom gazelle
the opener depends on the target count
so if 3 or less we dont use bp if 4+ then bp in cds without cds u only bp in 5+ correct?
fathom gazelle
does it matter if u have cds or not?
vale pine
technically would bp once
fathom gazelle
ahaa
alpine wraith
Guys, any of u use the keybind shift+space bar? Im using it, but when i told it ...
that is my stealth key
vale pine
but thats more min/max
fathom gazelle
tysm
kind edge
that is my stealth key
I always had my stealth key on 1
Tried to change it before, but cant get used to it lol. So i let it
fathom gazelle
may i ask whats the point of the first evis after our first ss in aoe? and if 5+ target do i replace it with bp? or do i bp inside sd only?
vale pine
may i ask whats the point of the first evis after our first ss in aoe? and if 5+...
you want to evis for snd
or well for coup de grace
tulip gorge
is coup still not giving snd
fathom gazelle
and why dont we use vanish opener for aoe also? coz storm gives enough cps?
sullen hare
is coup still not giving snd
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
vale pine
and why dont we use vanish opener for aoe also? coz storm gives enough cps?
you answered yourself ^^
kind edge
and why dont we use vanish opener for aoe also? coz storm gives enough cps?
and it proc find weakness too
fathom gazelle
aha perfect , im trying to understand than just pressing buttons
tysm
sorry 1 more question , flag we aim to get the mastrey buff from it? or the more dmg buff we get ? or how does it work
fathom gazelle
ahaa ahaa if mastrey is too good why not take tea
spark tusk
sorry 1 more question <:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021> , flag we aim to get the ...
As you use finishers it grants you a stacking mastery buff which gets higher the more combo points you spend with finishers. It's why we overlap it with Blades where we have an influx of combo points and damage amp
spark tusk
ahaa ahaa if mastrey is too good why not take tea
Because taking tea means giving up other things
Flag isn't out of the way in the tree and we aren't giving things up for it. Tea is out of the way and we would be giving up things for it
vale pine
Tea is technically not that far behind cold blood
fathom gazelle
every1 here is a legend tysm , the hard part of flag which i didint understand is the part where it says u get mastrey buff after it disapears so i was confused
''for 12 sec after its torment fades''
spark tusk
every1 here is a legend tysm , the hard part of flag which i didint understand i...
Yeah it ramps up in power based on combo points spent, and then it lingers after the build-up period fades
fathom gazelle
i think its kinda similar to kingsbane then
spark tusk
The build up period is the first half, where you spend combo points to make the mastery stronger, then after that build up period in the second half you don't build up with combo points spent anymore, but you keep the stacks you built up for 12 seconds after
I guess it's similar to kingsbane in that it ramps up, sure
fathom gazelle
The build up period is the first half, where you spend combo points to make the ...
i would kiss u in the forhead right now crystal clear my man
spark tusk
it's different in many ways but yes it ramps up
spark tusk
Yeah because it's stacked with blades as well it's just gg every time
you're basically spamming finishers while it's building anyways
vale pine
^^
fathom gazelle
kind edge
It feeds itself basically
fathom gazelle
ty ty ty i cant thank u enough , this is why the rogue discord and specially assa and sub are the best ❤️
kind edge
Oh, there is a outlaw discord around here? 🙃
fathom gazelle
Oh, there is a outlaw discord around here? 🙃
rng spec
kind edge
Sorry outlaw fans, u just cant play that spec.
fathom gazelle
xD
kind edge
Ye, if i wanna gamble in go to the casino
brisk onyx
!bug
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker
sinful zephyr
I really enjoy the current sub rogue iteration. The bug fixes will only make it better
fallow nimbus
Damn i have a giga brain idea for a 1 macro sectec without and with cb
Time to cook
vale pine
its fine overall
vestal escarp
is it wrong to macro symbols with sd ?
yes because during your flag+shb (all your dmg) you use them separately
vale pine
macroing in general is not super recommended
but dance + symbols is most of the time harmless
fathom gazelle
yes because during your flag+shb (all your dmg) you use them separately
sorry what is shb?
haughty mural
we use symbols more variable than before, so i would not recommend macroing them tbh
haughty mural
sorry what is shb?
shadow blades
fathom gazelle
but dance + symbols is most of the time harmless
yeh thought same way and i got it seprated for st rotation but in aoe i think having them macroed according to the guide is fine
fallow nimbus
Man, why do i have to sit at work. I wanna test macros
fathom gazelle
Man, why do i have to sit at work. I wanna test macros
what r u cooking bro
vale pine
you can do later
fallow nimbus
what r u cooking bro
A sectec macro that can fire non cb sectecs but cb sectecs if you want without modifiers like shift, etc
It could probably involve some toys to fake a spell use offgcd
fathom gazelle
A sectec macro that can fire non cb sectecs but cb sectecs if you want without m...
and whats the benift of sending sec tec without cb?
fallow nimbus
You want to sectec + cb with the 2nd dance in cds
golden kelp
and whats the benift of sending sec tec without cb?
2nd sectec benefits from higher flag % and higher tier set
fallow nimbus
So you need 2 buttons to achieve that
vale pine
!cb
wicked joltBOT
- Why is the Cold Blood and Secret Technique macro not recommended anymore?
When you macro these two together you often end up using it outside of your shadow blades window rather than inside of it, and since Subtlety gets so many damage modifiers inside its cooldowns its actually more damage use it only in Shadow Blades
(yes, even if you end up losing casts of cold blood). Ideally you use it on your second Secret Technique as it will be buffed by more stacks of Flawless Form and have higher Flagellation stacks.
fallow nimbus
Be it sectec and cb alone or sectec alone and a sectec+cb macro
But i am lazy and why do 2 buttons when 1 could work
The sim exclusively uses sectec with cb in cds only
fathom gazelle
im brain farting now
do we use x2 sd or 1 sd wait for sec tec to be off cd then use other?
fallow nimbus
Doesn't matter i will save us all
smoky vault
The guide on wowhead is not updated yet, that lay confuse you
fathom gazelle
ahaa
fathom gazelle
and back to back sec tecs also? since cp usage restore its cd faster?
fallow nimbus
Yes, sectec as soon as you can
fathom gazelle
holy fk
smoky vault
Plus SB after sectec which is ... Unintuitive before the fix of sectech benefitting from shadow b
vestal escarp
possibly aligned with one shupercharged cp
fallow nimbus
And cb with the 2nd one because big dmg
fathom gazelle
And cb with the 2nd one because big dmg
so thats why u dont use macro so u send 1st sec tech without cb and 2nd one with cb
fallow nimbus
Yes
smoky vault
My only macro is dance + shadow strike tbh
fallow nimbus
Not long ago it was ok to macro sectec+cb
hollow spear
Wasn't there some bug with that?
fallow nimbus
The bug was it's not 1 press anymore
hollow spear
Yeah
fathom gazelle
My only macro is dance + shadow strike tbh
was trying to macro symbols to sd coz i wanna make less gcs waste or time less to press sd and symbols if were in 2 seprated buttons
fallow nimbus
But still a valid macro
fallow nimbus
You want to buff sectec with supercharger but dance start and sectec use don't align sometimes specially not for DS
smoky vault
was trying to macro symbols to sd coz i wanna make less gcs waste or time less t...
I think can be valide for a start of the spec. But symbols doesn't align duration with SD and you go symbol X2 juste before the 2nd sd if that makes sense
haughty mural
was trying to macro symbols to sd coz i wanna make less gcs waste or time less t...
if you are unlucky you would not supercharge ur 2nd sectech in cds when you exclucively use that macro
haughty mural
exactly
smoky vault
Plus 1/2 symbols in between if you're energy lucky to reduce sectec enough (which with next season won't happen much if you keep rupture for 25 sec+
fathom gazelle
aha then fk macroing sd to symbols , so if i understand this right , st opener and rotation should look like this , Stealth > SS > Flag > evis > Vanish ( to get the full cmobo pts of next builder ) > SS > rupture > SD + symbols + pots and trinkets > sec tec without cb > Blades > ss into evis for the rest of 1st sd duration > SD number 2 > SS > Evis >super charge next sec by pressing sybols > Sec tec with CB ( has to be inside blades + flag window ) > refress rupture otherwise ss or evis .... correct?
haughty mural
shouldnt refresh rupture in dance
smoky vault
I think he means outside of sd with "otherwise" word ?
golden kelp
dont think you need to delay blades anymore in s2? "sec tec without cb > Blades "
smoky vault
Because bug fix sectech buffed with
golden kelp
also a symbols on pandemic, looked fine to me otherwise but not 100%
fathom gazelle
so when do u cast blades then? with ur 1st sd?
haughty mural
but you dont want to override premed
golden kelp
think we're safe to macro it
fathom gazelle
think we're safe to macro it
u mean macroing sd with blades correct?
golden kelp
with your trinkets pots etc
fathom gazelle
yeh yeh ofc
smoky vault
And you also want 2nd sectech with flag + sb still running so dont SB too early but just before 1st sectech in 11.1 should bé what it should have been
fathom gazelle
And you also want 2nd sectech with flag + sb still running so dont SB too early ...
yeh so u get time to cast ur empowered 2nd sec tec while still benifitng from blades sd and flag
smoky vault
Plus it will align more with flag cd (1/2sec...)
fathom gazelle
and for aoe 5+ targets same deal?
we pick highest hp mob and just swap evis to bp?
smoky vault
Just replace evis with powder really, burst the same
open vortex
cinderbrew first pull as sub
smoky vault
Simplification
open vortex
lordy
smoky vault
I think blizzard has clear ideas / vision (of course, they even made a post once) of what spec they want to shine on M+ / on raid for each season (while balancing classes ...). Not clear to me on current state what is their for rogue
Oo
Remember they are game masters xD
median nacelle
Just replace evis with powder really, burst the same
do u strike or fok in dance on 5+ packs?
open vortex
strike
median nacelle
gotchya
open vortex
playing trickster atleast
median nacelle
ya
open vortex
u just fok once to apply find weakness on everything
after that its back to ss -> bp spam
or ss -> coupe
median nacelle
mhm, i havent used bp a whole lot
i usually evis spam, i miss bp being 5 less energy
smoky vault
Man fire mage is so fun, tempted to switch for S2
median nacelle
im going dh and feral alts this season
maybe arms warr
i already decided my alts 2 months ago lol
smoky vault
Mage / DH too
median nacelle
but mage does look fun
smoky vault
But no time to play really outside 2 nights raid so xD
median nacelle
fair
i kinda wish i got into raiding again
wish mythic was 10man tho, easier for me to find 9 ppl i like, let alone get together on the same nights
golden kelp
wish mythic was 10man tho, easier for me to find 9 ppl i like, let alone get tog...
ye I've played since shadowlands and just now got into a guild im happy with, it's definitely a struggle lol
fallow nimbus
First draft all in one new sectec macro:
#showtooltip sectec /castsequence reset=(toy-cd+leeway for 2nd dance use) toy-with-low-cd, cb /cast sectec
Should use a non-cb sectec with first use and a cb+sectec with 2nd use if toy cd isn't too short+leeway, if toys work in sequence macros at all
open vortex
smoky vault
But if you manage to put in 1 sectech in between burst, you end up doing cb + sectech on first next burst 😄
fallow nimbus
The reset prevents that
fallow nimbus
There are some toys with low cds like the heartsbane grimoir
fallow nimbus
It should also be possible to still cb with the first sectec if you spam the macro mid gcd
clever delta
No r1 log this season, I'm washed up
open vortex
😦
fallow nimbus
How far you've fallen
clever delta
Well I played sub mostly but logging was easier with amount of assa logs
fallow nimbus
I was at my peak in nyalotha
keen marten
Sheeesh, I wish I would finally hit that rank 1 log some time.
Was close on Dream council in amirdrassil, hit R3 
fallow nimbus
The 98 and 97 were rank 2s and 3s 
median nacelle
ye I've played since shadowlands and just now got into a guild im happy with, it...
nice, where'd you find your guild?
clever delta
I had many r1 but never holded lockout
Atleast I'm on top of my realm with both specs 😄
tribal blade
came "close" to rank 1 on ovi
if being 150k dps off the rank 1 parse is close
i guess rank 1 trickster 🙂
worn cape
According to the hero talents section, rank 1 is DS
barren wolf
oh yeah the highly acclaimed ovinax parse(how much of your team is padding and letting parasites multiply)
im a hater cuh
clever delta
It's kinda funny that even months after you leave guild you are still 0n their guild ranking page
Being on top must be tilting
gritty gorge
So regarding the whole discussion this morning in this channel: How big of a loss is it so macro SD and Symbols? It makes playing the spec much easier imo
clever delta
Use to be fine
alpine wraith
it is not fine sadly
clever delta
But not so fine after supercharge added
alpine wraith
basically if you do taht your biggest sec tech on the second dance is missing around 40% dmg
amp
so imagine losing from 10m to 6m in simple numbers nothing specific
clever delta
Btw hacha since you are here
I noticed when playing ds
That before I farm my second sectech my symbols are about to expire
tribal blade
im a hater cuh
ty for the hate red name
alpine wraith
remember you can symbols evis then sec tech
barren wolf
ty for the hate red name
dont worry its universal hate
clever delta
As trickster it's much smoother experience
tribal blade
nah i'm looking, my guild has a non padding amount of parasite spawns
a normal amount
alpine wraith
actually most of our dmg comes from spiders in cds
parasites usually spawn when we dont have flag
only once they do kinda
bt they get destroyed usually
sly shore
dont worry its universal hate
Hate from UK
gritty gorge
basically if you do taht your biggest sec tech on the second dance is missing ar...
Because of supercharger, correct? So macro is fine outside of 1:30min CDs. Otherwise its garbage.
alpine wraith
kinda
keen dome
came "close" to rank 1 on ovi
So much damage...
vale pine
Not even on first kill
F
brisk onyx
new 4p seems doesn't work on shadowed finisher and sb sometimes?
tribal blade
So much damage...
it seems like a crazy difference between heroic and mythic until you see how many more adds you get on mythic
brisk onyx
not only sectech
keen dome
Yeah
smoky vault
Because of supercharger, correct? So macro is fine outside of 1:30min CDs. Other...
Awkward to have a macro with sd+symbols and symbols separately for when you only want to press symbols + sectech outside of sd.
Better muscle memory to get used to press the two in a separate manner, otherwise you may only throw sd when ready by habit and missing symbols or supercharge opportunity
brisk onyx
i dont know what's happened
keen dome
My best is like, 1.8m? 1.9m? which is a 95 so lmao at 3m+
I ended up 6th highest for Heroic as Sub rogue on my server which is pretty nice. 167th overall on AD for heroic parses. Best I've ever managed. Progress.
autumn flame
tribal blade
is it national sin rogue shit on sub rogue day today
i'm happy with my parse, leave me in peace
take your negativity somewhere else
tribal blade
any time just ask them for their smolderon parses
i don't think i ever got a really good smoldy parse because i always used cloak to live overlaps instead of cheesing rings
dodging those waves was super rough with my ms
keen dome
Second highest all stars on my realm is a Sub rogue. Sub representin' 
tribal blade
i've been doing so many make a wishes with my RL recently
here's his make a wish aotc queen log
we do this every tier to get people aotc, it's actually very fun
tribal blade
the interesting thing about doing it with queen is that 99% of the time it comes down to the tanks
when you get tanks who aren't taunting correctly the boss is quite literally impossible haha
keen dome
Yeah, i can imagine
Also the goop placement if it goes on someone who doesn't know where
tribal blade
yeah that can be bad too, but it's at least recoverable
keen dome
Yeah
That's 90% of pug wipes.
Goop placement going to people who don't know what to do and them putting it in a stupid place even after you explain how to do it
tribal blade
yeah they start running out to narnia
"damn got this circle on me, i better get it out of the raid"
keen dome
Yep
Or they both place it on the same side (Which is just frustrating and not always someones fault) or they plant it inside the boss or something
Or someone runs across it after it's placed without thinking
tribal blade
my death addon also gets a real workout during P1 of the boss
people just dropping dead left and right
keen dome
People love those acid waves.
In my experience, people die to, in order of likelyhood:
- Acid waves
- Standing in web and not moving
- Somehow falling off.
tribal blade
i think 1 and 2 are an ilvl thing because at 640 ilvl those things aren't gonna 1 shot
keen dome
Absolutely, yeah
I mean even around 620~ you survive a single tick
But people like to linger.
tribal blade
on mythic you absolutely can't touch them though haha, they truck
keen dome
when I was helping my guild kill her, we had a warrior who'd die constantly to them because they just refused to dodge
(On heroic, nat)
tribal blade
we have a warr on our team who dies during P1 because he's trying to cheat more uptime
keen dome
Aaaaaa
I hate it so much
You'll do more DPS if you dodge. DODGE THEM.
IT'S A DPS GAIN TO DODGE THEM!!!
tribal blade
he's a player who parses extremely well, but part of the reason why is because he brings it down to the wire with moving out for mechanics
keen dome
Haha
tribal blade
IT'S A DPS GAIN TO DODGE THEM!!!
exactly lol
keen dome
Mine doesn't even have that, they did sub-700k or something
keen dome
I'm absolutely someone who'll move early and stay out until certain. Playing it too safe is a problem sometimes, haha
tribal blade
it's fine until he leaps out with mechanics last second and messes up dropping stuff in the raid
and gets banned haha
keen dome
runic trail
I'm absolutely someone who'll move early and stay out until certain. Playing it ...
Me on our first princess kill. Damage wasn't an issue and I wasn't risking being anywhere near middle of the raid with the orbs.
keen dome
Yeah, haha
tribal blade
i actually died very little during princess prog because i prioritized dodging daggers over uptime
i expected it to be the other way around playing at 200 ms on NA server
keen dome
If you hit the enrage or soft enrage, then it's time to worry about it. Otherwise it's just surviving for the kill, imo
(Of course hitting breakpoints, etc are important too)
runic trail
If you hit the enrage or soft enrage, then it's time to worry about it. Otherwis...
Ye that's my logic. Better to be solid AF on mechanics until you hit DPS checks
At which point you take more risk
tribal blade
princess was one where dying actively inted the whole raid in a big way because you were giving everyone else extra lines during intermissions
keen dome
Someone once said that the best player is the guy who's consistent. Doing a 60 - 80 parse, rarely dying, always doing mechanics.
tribal blade
i'm sometimes that player, sometimes not
keen dome
high5
When I run my heroic pug, I always stress I do not care about damage, and will not kick over bad damage. Because mechanics are all that matter.
tribal blade
(until you run into damage checks /cry)
but you're right, clean play is usually always the answer
keen dome
Ye, but on Heroic it's such a rare issue.
Outside the very first week I don't think I saw a single incident of damage being an issue in my pugs.
tribal blade
on heroic it's not really no, you right
keen dome
In my guild's raids.. Yeah, more of an issue when you've got 10 people doing sub-500k but.. c'est la vie. Makin' it work
Also, in Heroic, one or two very strong DPS can carry an entire raid too.
tribal blade
Also, in Heroic, one or two very strong DPS can carry an entire raid too.
this is VERY true