subtlety

[shrewd grail]

For tierset

[hazy breach]

I think they did, because BP aint dropping it all the time

Thats probably the 400ms that we saw in spelldata

They just didnt realize coup hits outside of that

[tepid trellis]

yeh but then atleast some of em would land inside of it

time to do 100 coups (im not doing that)

[swift tinsel]

I can do it later lol

And note which coup hit resets

[shrewd grail]

Its intenational or its a bugg ?

[hazy breach]

Well if the tooltip says 15%

And its higher than 15%

Thats probably not intentional

[tepid trellis]

just log it

[swift tinsel]

I’ve been trying to upload logs but the uploader keeps saying I don’t have advanced combat logging on when I do

[shrewd grail]

Too much sweat for a niche spec , ask blizzard to let the 10 stack perma :praige:

[lilac stag]

yeah that’s useful

If you want more simplistic check out assa or another class.

[hexed sluice]

Did you say apply clone damage to the aug vokers meter?

[tepid trellis]

huh?

[hexed sluice]

Just joking cause if they threw an ICD on something, they'd just add like 10 more bugs

[shrewd grail]

I find assa more difficult tho

[lilac stag]

Try Ret

[vestal escarp]

go my waking ashes

or something like that

[left ledge]

Oh wow

What a surprise

A delayed hit mechanic is buggy

I think the solution is to give us another delayed hit big damage finisher

With pets

And it applies a shadow damage dot

[uneven scarab]

How about maybe they just remove the split hits

i want big bonk number

[vestal escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[weary saffron]

its a setting in your general wow settings to turn on, and then do /combatlog in game before you start

I am a frequent forgetter of actually doing the / portion before turning my logs on for the night

[honest saddle]

get autocombatlogger

or similar addon

it will turn on logs automatically for you when you enter raid pvp arena m+ whatever you want

you can set difficulties so it wont go on in lfr or whatever

[alpine wraith]

it does not work on dummies

same as everything you have to log manually and upload manually

[weary saffron]

and if you do go ahead and do that, I know many in here would appreciate the data

[echo magnet]

Yo when do you guys typically start holding your CDs? Just trying to get in the right habits, I've been holding symbols and dance when flag is around 40 secs but I think that's too late?

This is in raid btw

[alpine wraith]

depends at which time of the fight you are as first 2 sets of cds are a bit diff

ideally you want to begin with flag with 1 charge of dance and around 40 secs of the next

smth like this but not super rigid depends on fight

[tepid trellis]

around the 30 sec mark is fine

[echo magnet]

Right gotcha, I'm a little confused about the 30 second CD usage on that chart does that mean after your first use of flag/blades you get 3 uses of sectec before next flag/blades but after the second use of flag/blades you only get 2 uses of sectec?

Then 2 uses between each flag for the rest of the fight?

[tepid trellis]

generally speaking it goes like this with dances
2-1-1-2-1-0-2-1-1-2

but cdr can get very tight, so in most cases it will be a judgement call if you can fit it in or not

[echo magnet]

Aw man this is gonna take some getting used to 🤣

[tepid trellis]

looks like that

[echo magnet]

That's super helpful thanks

[umbral relic]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[swift tinsel]

Yeah I always have it enabled which is why I’m confused it’s telling me the log was made without ACL enabled

[weary saffron]

hmmmm

[swift tinsel]

I can log retail no problem

[weary saffron]

ahhhh i see i see

[swift tinsel]

I had a similar problem with 10.2 ptr but I don’t remember how I fixed it

[fallow nimbus]

A bit of extra cdr would make things more smooth

[willow pawn]

sub is so bad rn on ptr

😂

[alpine wraith]

not really

just others are quite stronger

the bugs are annoying but they will get fixed

[tribal blade]

i think i called it

when i said most of sub's ptr time is gonna be fixing the tier set

[young mural]

oh heres the dude

prophethood stormrage's best sub rogue

[tribal blade]

hello!

[young mural]

anyways, what flask am I using as sub?

[tribal blade]

i dunno about best sub rogue on stormrage though haha

[young mural]

oh come on you're being humble

[alpine wraith]

alchemical chaos or vers

[tribal blade]

prob depends on your stats, you can use chaos, vers or mast

[young mural]

sorry for the dumb question then, but how do I sim it?

[alpine wraith]

alchemical is when you feel bursty because it makes pot better

[tribal blade]

in top gear

[alpine wraith]

but it can also cuck you

rolling haste in cds

[uneven scarab]

Haste during flag

[tribal blade]

yeah i don't use chaos just for that reason 😉

[uneven scarab]

ya

sadge

[young mural]

by giving me haste :S

[uneven scarab]

yes

[tribal blade]

i have so much vers that i'm using mast flask right now

[alpine wraith]

it makes pot quite stronger so if the fight is short you can take a plunge

[uneven scarab]

Literally any other stat is fine but when u get haste its sad

[alpine wraith]

i like mastery flask problem is with the ring vers makes it better

because of dmg procs

[tribal blade]

unbuffed in raid set i have 22% vers and 60% mast

so mast flask is better for me

[alpine wraith]

not really

[young mural]

yhea ill sim it but thanks for the heads up, i might not even bother with alchemical chaos

[alpine wraith]

but mastery flask is big crit power so

[tribal blade]

yeah mast sort of double dips right now because it buffs the ring too

[young mural]

ohhh

I tried to play assasination, destro warlock, DH but all paths lead me back to sub rogue

will it get a bit more of attention next patch or am I coping/delusional?

[tribal blade]

if current trends continue no 😦

[young mural]

:X

[tribal blade]

but who knows when blizz will decide to switch things up

the most likely thing is sub is left to get the scraps of dev time

and we hope we get the shammy treatment next expac

[young mural]

that would be crazy lmao

[tribal blade]

because the 180 that happened with shammy means they're willing to change their focus

[tribal blade]

i think shammy was consistently bottom of the barrel in terms of dev attention before

and now it's on top with mage

so now that we have the #1 spot my hope is they do the same thing to sub

[young mural]

I really hope so

although i wont keep my hopes up

but if sub rogue gets attention i would be veery happy

[tribal blade]

me too!

but i'm trying to keep myself wary about it

because i keep getting my hopes up and blizz does barely anything

i think their first step should be to fix the spells that cause major problems like sectec and shadowed finishers

[young mural]

I really liked the way they reduced our CDs and made them line up. It feels so much better

[tribal blade]

yeah the anniversary changes were good

need more of that

[young mural]

So fucking true. Every time I check the known bug list its always something up with shadowed finishers

[tribal blade]

yeah they could curb so much dev time with fixing sub by just reworking those spells

hacha had a good point about them constantly having to fix everything with every new iteration over those 2 spells

[alpine wraith]

yea fw and shadowed finishers and split dmg in general

is just problematic

[young mural]

just went into your channel and saw your +10 mists, well played sir

but also your UI gave me a semi-stroke

[alpine wraith]

it is just old

cant change the old person

[uneven scarab]

the hacha UI is a legend

[alpine wraith]

have been using almost same UI since like 2007

when dominos and droodfocus kinda began coming

also for funny things i have cps in like 3 diff places

and i look at them depending on where my eyes are

[young mural]

I noticed lmao

you got the personal resource thingy active

well UI doesnt matter since you still out DPS me

[uneven scarab]

Years of experience

[young mural]

unbuffed in my M+ set i got 17% vers and 74% mast, mastery flask still simmed better 5 targets

ill check in ST now

[tribal blade]

yeah mastery is very good in aoe

vers gains more value in pure ST

[young mural]

yup, vers wins ST

I mean fuck it ill drink that mastery elixir

[lilac stag]

You’ve been here long enough to know the drill.

[tribal blade]

they've beaten me into submission

[uneven scarab]

Thats why they call it sub rogue

[lilac stag]

it’s the same every go. Assume nothing gets fixed. Hope tuning isn’t BFA levels of bad.

celebrate being purple

[uneven scarab]

i just pray the tier works as intended

pls

I dont want a 66% chance for my tech to do no dam

[swift tinsel]

I’m losing faith lol

[lilac stag]

it would feel better if there was an ounce of communication

[swift tinsel]

Love seeing the shadow hits of sectech do 20% more damage than the phys with 10 stacks in dance

[lilac stag]

but we’re not so lucky

[swift tinsel]

Like one crumb of communication

They don’t even list the bug fixes they’ve made and some were pretty big

[young mural]

Hard not to at this point to be fair

[lilac stag]

It’s the same cycle every patch

[swift tinsel]

Like if I didn’t randomly log into ptr and spec back into RS idk if I’d have noticed it worked again for a while

[uneven scarab]

Yeah i really dont understand the lack of documentation in the notes

its weird

[swift tinsel]

Or like the sectech blades fix

No words

[lilac stag]

some people are good at taking notes. Some people are not. I don’t think it’s much deeper than that.

[young mural]

true, we've got to remember these are people sometimes :S

[swift tinsel]

Idk I just feel like we got spoiled in 10.2

[young mural]

I forget that

[swift tinsel]

With communication

[lilac stag]

We did not

10.2 was incomplete

[uneven scarab]

We got spoiled when realz was in here talking to us

[swift tinsel]

^

[uneven scarab]

itll never be the same

But i still have hope idk

[willow pawn]

ga damn sin also sucks on ptr

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, didn’t someone say in here or sin that they got kinda gagged from talking here too much

Devs in general

[willow pawn]

boomies and hunters are doing 5mil overall

[uneven scarab]

I don’t remember the exact reason

[willow pawn]

wild

[swift tinsel]

Something about twitter

[lilac stag]

End of day overall tuning has been good for raid at least.

[swift tinsel]

And SOD devs or something

[young mural]

dont attach yourself to PTR numbers plez

they're going to change drastically when it goes live, and for the next few patches following it

[swift tinsel]

Yeah if they can get the tier set mostly functional and it doesn’t impact gameplay too much I’m happy

Not thrilled

But happy ig

[uneven scarab]

Or we’ll get the buff 3 weeks after patch treatment

[young mural]

That was my biggest worry, having to play around this new weird tierset

[swift tinsel]

It’s really not that bad unless they make it worse

[lilac stag]

You’re still going to be playing around it

[swift tinsel]

Bc you can’t really control the sectech part

[young mural]

we already have to track fucking 300 auras, whats one more

[swift tinsel]

Clones seemingly have their own bonus and can lose it independently

[uneven scarab]

Play around it as in spec ds

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/shaking-my-head-colin-jost-saturday-night-live-im-disappointed-smh-gif-23824684

[swift tinsel]

Oddly enough ds has a bit of an easier time bc it doesn’t get as many reset chances

[uneven scarab]

Yeah im not surprised

Coup is a small problem also

[swift tinsel]

At least BP is not as hard cursed

[uneven scarab]

Yeah they fixed it mostly right

[lilac stag]

Need I remind you of the multi target strike curse

[swift tinsel]

It seems like it

[uneven scarab]

Dont pls

[swift tinsel]

Oh I fucking refuse to play that way

[uneven scarab]

I have been not thinking about it on purpose

[lilac stag]

lol

[swift tinsel]

Idc how much less damage I do

[uneven scarab]

Giving myself ds delusions

that its just fine

[swift tinsel]

Not that I’d ever play ds in m+

[lilac stag]

Menty B over DS

[willow bobcat]

I assume no real talent choice changes on PTR from live since we got no changes whatsoever?

[swift tinsel]

You’re safe to talent into replicating shadows

[lilac stag]

Spec RS in ST now

[swift tinsel]

If you weren’t before

[uneven scarab]

I just left it specced

[swift tinsel]

Dropping Rotten for 1/2 finality is simming higher than current setup too

But it’s early

[uneven scarab]

assumed it wouldnt ever get fixed so might as well be used to it

[lilac stag]

I’ll keep the orange cat pfp for my mental while we navigate major patch “changes”

[young mural]

i got 2 of those

[swift tinsel]

I’m perma keeping Paint Sub Icon

Maybe swap between that and Dave

[uneven scarab]

Is that orange cat with the alien creature in its mouth

[young mural]

what is that dude carrying in his mouth?

[lilac stag]

Yes

Don’t fuck around with orange kitteh

[uneven scarab]

True

[swift tinsel]

Steve approves

[uneven scarab]

My gf got a black cat

hes a real one

[young mural]

anyone has a TALKING treacherous transmitter wa?

[uneven scarab]

yes

its like the first one on wago

[young mural]

where can i find it

oh perfect, tysm

[uneven scarab]

https://wago.io/aAptcE2lH

[swift tinsel]

Hell yeah kittehs

[lilac stag]

They’re siblings. The black cat is perfect. The orange one… is an orange cat.

[uneven scarab]

Oranges are special

They are a whole nother type of cat

[lilac stag]

yep

[uneven scarab]

The golden retrievers of cats if you will

[young mural]

I got these 2 madmans

[uneven scarab]

Awh

[young mural]

The right one is always mad

The left one always wants to play

[young mural]

The oranges are special indeed

[swift tinsel]

Bebes

Mine will sit and scream at me until I pick him up whenever I come home from work

[young mural]

lmao

i love them

[young mural]

Thank you so much, working perfectly

[lilac stag]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[young mural]

yup.

this trinket fucking sucks

[lilac stag]

I actually am fine with it. We’ve had worse before. I won’t miss it eventually.

[young mural]

What was worse than this?

I used the everbloom one Witherbark's Branch S3 dragonflight and i've much rather have that lol

[lilac stag]

Any of the multi orb collecting.

[young mural]

😮

[lilac stag]

Transmitter needs like a split second to not place it in bad

Much rather that then running around collecting crap

[swift tinsel]

Yeah you can troll yourself pretty hard with the orb or platform

Branch wasn’t as bad bc they came at you from the same spots

And you got two right away

[young mural]

yhea

[lilac stag]

Playing the stagger game. Fuck off

[young mural]

I learned to like and play witherbark's branch pretty well

[swift tinsel]

It’s like jump for transmitter, just send the two right away and time the third with sectech

[uneven scarab]

Branch was worse imo

1 orb > 3

[tribal blade]

branch was horrific to use if you had moments of nonstop movement

like that 1 boss in ataldazar

[young mural]

true

[tribal blade]

the totem boss

[young mural]

oh lmao

[uneven scarab]

Yeah imagine branching right as the t rex boss runs away at someone

from kings rest? Idk what it was

[young mural]

guys dont ruin my 100% perfect memory

[uneven scarab]

[young mural]

atal dazar too

[uneven scarab]

Atal dazer is the one

[lilac stag]

Rose tinted glasses

[lapis hatch]

is deathstalker better for m+ ? or just prio damage

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

[young mural]

[lilac stag]

DS is shit.

Trickster is better for m+

[lapis hatch]

my damage feels like ass is there anything obvious in the damage breakdown im doing wrong

[young mural]

NOT ENOUGH NIBLE FLURRY DAMAGE

sorry for caps

remember to keep flawless form when AOEing

throw in a couble backstabs/shadowstrikes while in packs

[lapis hatch]

and evisc with nimble instead of black powder?

black powder feels like it does nothing lmao

[young mural]

yhea exactly

[slate lantern]

Wait I can't miss the kitty posting

[young mural]

technically you would black powder above 7 targets i think>

but ill let the big dogs answer that one

[kind bluff]

BP at 5

[lapis hatch]

still build in packs with shuriken instead of backstab, but throw the odd one in for flawless?

[young mural]

exactly

much more energy effieicnt to build points with shuriken storm

its kind of odd

[lapis hatch]

need to watch some more gameplay, feels like im losing lots of dps holding dance for flag to come up

[young mural]

I recommend watching somethjing like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx-h6c-rc6o&

[kind bluff]

Ur not losing dps because dance isn't capping. Therefore you are getting the same number of uses just crammed into ur big cds

So u aren't actually holding it per say. Ur timing it. U shouldn't be losing a use of it at all.

[lapis hatch]

if flag target dies early thats bad im assuming?

[young mural]

yjea

you wont be able to stack flag if it dies early

hey big guys, please correct me if im wrong. feel like some of my knowledge might be outdated

[alpine wraith]

ideally you should have time to stack flag

when target dies you get +10 but always try to flag a high hp target

[lapis hatch]

caps at 30 stacks?

[rocky ocean]

Pin when

[young mural]

yhea

[lapis hatch]

ty bois

[worthy pulsar]

is sub dungeonslice ok?

[molten citrus]

ye

[tribal blade]

i haven't done a fresh reinstall of wow in 4 years, would it be worth doing that?

[woven ruin]

[covert storm]

u dont need fresh install, u can just delete the data files and repair i think

will find a video 1 sec

https://youtu.be/jGvjgNXkSuw

was worth it for me, i saved like 50gb of space and improved load times drastically

[tribal blade]

yeah i noticed wow is taking up and absurd amount of space for me atm

[alpine wraith]

check you dont have lots of logs

that is usually what people forget to delete

[worthy pulsar]

does secret tech follow target if it moves?

[alpine wraith]

no

[young mural]

Do you know if shadowed finishers is interacting correctly with nimble flurry?

[brisk onyx]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[brisk onyx]

you can check some from this sheet

[young mural]

nice, thanks!

[tribal blade]

holy fucking shit i freed up 90-100 gigs of storage space

[molten citrus]

[tribal blade]

i had NO idea

[molten citrus]

you reinstalled ya?

[tribal blade]

i just deleted then patched the data files

my frames went up too

by quite a bit

[molten citrus]

i need to do that too

been a few years for me as well

[tribal blade]

it was ~106 gig redownload for me

so do it when you have time

could take a while depending on your ISP speed

[molten citrus]

my entire wow folder is only 150gigs

and i have classic and PTRs/beta installed still i think

[young mural]

woah, ill be doing that before heading to bed

nice

[molten citrus]

i have noticed my loading screens and pop in has been worse

[young mural]

my install is relatively fresh but still

[molten citrus]

past few months

[tribal blade]

mine was at 196

somehow

it was HUGE

[molten citrus]

wonder why

i've had mine installed for 4-5 years as well

[tribal blade]

SHEEEEESH

[tribal blade]

honestly no idea

[molten citrus]

you make it all just from raids?

[tribal blade]

i'm sitting here stocking up on consumables to free up bag space

[tribal blade]

nah it's from gambling with engineering 😉

[young mural]

impossible

[molten citrus]

[tribal blade]

it literally just requires you to be logged into the game

doing crafting

[young mural]

what item are you scouring?

[tribal blade]

unstable triggers

i'm giving away secrets reee

[young mural]

delete msg

ive seen it

lmao

[tribal blade]

but you can pilfer for all the mount parts for the crowd pummeler

[molten citrus]

[tribal blade]

and sell em

[young mural]

thats what i meant

pilfer through parts

what does your engineering specialization tree look like?

[tribal blade]

most important thing is you go into the inventing tree

put 30 into scrapper

and get as much resourcefullness as humanly possible

it'll be way more efficient and you'll get more out of it when you have 30 points in scrapper

[warm marlin]

this is an insane hack, i went from 20gb free on ssd to 80

[young mural]

alright

investing rn, ill try it out O_O

[tribal blade]

haha nice

[young mural]

are you sure its the scrapper sub-spec?

[young mural]

@tribal blade

just making sure i didnt just sink 25 points into the wrong thing

[tribal blade]

yes scrapper

[young mural]

nice, thanks!

Mr Prophet, can I get a glimpse into your UI?

[tribal blade]

oh trust you don't want to see mine, it's horrendous

you probably have a better UI than me

[young mural]

lmaoo

[tribal blade]

i'm not a big addon person so mine is an absolute frankenstein creation

[young mural]

I just use Naowh's UI customized for me

[mint swift]

Graham
How’s the pet battle stuff going

[keen dome]

high5 frankenstein UI

[young mural]

are you guys still sneaking a backstab in your shadow dance window to stack more dense macabre or is that dragonflight tech

[tribal blade]

i've been putting it off, it's just so damn slow lol

i do some pet battles randomly

[tribal blade]

nah we don't do that anymore, strike got buffed after DF to do way more than backstab

[young mural]

bet, so every builder during shadow dance should be shadowstrike?

[lethal breach]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lost scroll]

hi guys quick question, i'm day 1 learning rogue and just gettin the basics

Raeding the guide and see this, but I can't find in the talents how eviscerate applices slice and dice

i'm sure it's in there, but i'm not seeing it..

[molten citrus]

It’s a base passive

[lost scroll]

or am i misunderstanding?

ooh ok

thanks Notrickz

[molten citrus]

Look in spellbook

Under the passives

[lost scroll]

Got it

[molten citrus]

[mint swift]

Understandable

[mint swift]

The 2nd best QoL thing they done for rogue this season

Love it

[lost scroll]

honestly, rogue specs feel weird coming from other classes.

i'm only learning specs enough to do the mage tower challenge

[tulip gorge]

feint being off the gcd being first?

[tribal blade]

what's weird you're finding about it?

i like hearing these povs people have coming from other classes

[lost scroll]

some classes are just use builder hit the shiny button

and i'd do okay damage

like maybe sub/ass have a higher skill floor? I dunno, don't expect any good takes i've played sub/ass for 30mins

[tribal blade]

that's a common thing that happens yeah

the rogue rotations aren't really intuitive

you're right there, a lot of rotations are laid out quite easily for people to figure out the majority on their own with the UI handholding you

[molten citrus]

looks like ima save 50gigs of space

[tribal blade]

sub has absolutely none of that

[molten citrus]

with the reinstall

[tribal blade]

HUGE

[molten citrus]

155gig -> 105gig

[tribal blade]

yeah mine's down to that size too now

according to the video that was linked it'll increase in size any time blizz patches the game

so you just clean it out every once in a while and you're gucci

[lost scroll]

oh no

i'm so bad at sub

[molten citrus]

i just hope it noticeably reduces my loading screen

[lost scroll]

that the mage tower thing went into bezerk mode

[tribal blade]

i honestly hope my game runs a bit smoother now

my fps did jump up a bit after doing it so i'm hopeful

won't be able to tell if it was anything noticable until i get back into raid

[slate lantern]

I think I might nuke my elvui setup this weekend

Go back to da basics

[tribal blade]

i was thinking of going through addons again and nuking stuff too

[molten citrus]

apparently addons also contribute to long loading screens a lot

[tribal blade]

they do yeah

they also slow down the game in general

[molten citrus]

ye

[tribal blade]

one time i accidently turned off my addons in the middle of a key

and the game was suddenly running WAY smoother

[round latch]

@sly shore seafood pasta with lettuce/vinnegar salad,white wine on the side

[lost scroll]

Got the mage tower W during the enrage, with evasion

[tribal blade]

seafood pasta is BOMB

[molten citrus]

that was fast

[tribal blade]

seafood pasta in a white sauce

best seafood pasta i ever had was in melbourne

[lost scroll]

It's not too crazy right now, a few items scale incorrectly.

You can get insane stats.

[tribal blade]

melbourne has some insanely good food

[lost scroll]

Had like 103% versa on my pally at one point

[molten citrus]

o.O

[lilac stag]

Remember when you switched to sub to for Ovi? I’m pretty sure your nameplates are doing too many calls.

[tribal blade]

what did he SAYYYYY

[tribal blade]

haha yeah that was actually nuts that difference

[molten citrus]

i heard mage tower was easy now with new trees

[tribal blade]

that's like remix stats

[molten citrus]

didn't know the scaling was THAT off

[round latch]

best seafood pasta ive had was in Crete(aegean sea) everything was just perfect,chef friend of mine,went to eat with my ex on our year anniversary

[tribal blade]

damn stop it, you're making me hungry

[lilac stag]

wonder how doomer this place will be this weekend

[lost scroll]

Healing ones are still kinda hard, the NPCs don't get any funky scaling. But it's been fun doing all the specs while the seasons dead

[lilac stag]

Or if it’ll will hold off until Tuesday

[tribal blade]

i'm gonna try to hold off my serious rants until we're out of the first few weeks of the season

[lilac stag]

Need 1 rogue in raid anyways

Rip if you have 2

[tribal blade]

we'll see what happens

[lost scroll]

For numbing poison?

[lilac stag]

I do wonder how much work it would be to just rewrite Sectech to be a single hit

[lost scroll]

I have no idea what else rogue brings raid wise

[lilac stag]

Atrophic.

DR is good especially early prog.

just not exciting so it gets shit on

[tribal blade]

it's not sexy at all but it's absolutely mandatory for every raid team

but noone is ever excited about gaining atrophic ever

[lilac stag]

melee is excited with I’m on rogue, they notice the parrys

[tribal blade]

the only time people actually cared about it was when i was pushing keys in S3 DF and people were trying to figure out how to live all the insane 1 shots that season

because atrophic was enough to make people live spells that would otherwise kill them

[tribal blade]

T R U E

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/starship-troopers-gif-26279222

[lost scroll]

My favourite Melbourne food rn is nothing fancy, little fresh sandwich shop called baguette and waffle. Lovely baguettes 🙂

[keen dome]

I keep meaning to do that pruning of files to let them condense properly again. but then I remember I run ATT and I'm 99% sure that causes my loading to take forever...

[lilac stag]

This week I’m going through plater and pruning everything

[fathom adder]

do i understand it correctly that if i do the wowhead opener i do use the 2nd SD asap but wait to use symbols until it nearly falls off because sectec needs the time to be up again and benefit from rotten/supercharge? Its not wrong that it is not the first or 2nd finisher in my 2nd dance from pull?

[tepid trellis]

its just for supercharger

but yes its normal that its up around the third finisher in 2nd dance

depending on luck

[fathom adder]

ok thank you

[hazy breach]

Also worth noting that you dont need sectech to be your first finisher after symbols

As long as it has less than 10s left on its cd its fine to send symbols

[tacit coral]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[echo magnet]

Quick sim says 850k but I'm only doing around 600k-650k is there anything obvious that sticks out to you guys?

[old venture]

a sim is 5 minutes on a stationary boss with no mechanics and your character being played perfectly by a computer

your damage is you doing actual bosses with mechanics and not being a robot

plus quick sim has all buffs iirc

[echo magnet]

Nah my damage was on a dummy xd which makes me think I'm messing something up

[solemn creek]

Yes u are missing a lot of buff. And rune too

[tepid trellis]

link the sim

[old venture]

re-run the quicksim as target dummy

which will disable your flask, aug rune, food buff, etc

and then compare

[echo magnet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5tXLcAJQFcBE7wbYirTRJp

It's all disabled it's a quick sim on dummy

[old venture]

oh

[echo magnet]

Like the % of each spell looks pretty accurate but the damage is so much lower

[tepid trellis]

probably just going wrong somewhere

[echo magnet]

But the % of total damage each spell is doing lines up so well so it's not like I'm doing something obvious like misusing flag or shadow blades

I'm just confused where I'm losing so much, I'll just keep practising I guess

[thin lion]

did this work? and was all of ur interface and so on intakt afterwards?

[lilac stag]

It doesn’t touch your interface

It’s just clearing out wow data

unless you mess it up and remove the wrong folder

[molten citrus]

ye i did it as well, all settings and addons stay set up

it's only the base game files

[round latch]

i dont eat alot of bread,im more into protein

meat and veggies and all

i do like sliced bread with olive oil and oregano in the oven though

even some garlic

[graceful perch]

Hey guys, do we know which spec we will go in s2? Trickster or DS?

[tepid trellis]

early stuff shows trickster

[vale pine]

deathstalker is very close

so both seem good

[vestal escarp]

pog trickster

[graceful perch]

s2 we use SB bevore sec tec , they fixed that or?

[vestal escarp]

🥹

[swift tinsel]

did that resetti spaghetti from the video and ditched over 60gb and now ptr dummy logging works, pogchamp

[swift tinsel]

because the clone hits are 1 and 1.2 sec after the phys you can cast it after sectech and be alright

[lilac stag]

1.3

[haughty mural]

how much did you have 😄

[swift tinsel]

went from 189 to 121, so actually closer to 70gb lol

I could save some more if I deleted the classic stuff bc I haven't played it in ages

[vale pine]

before secret is fine but should not make a diffrence

the shadow attacks are 1 and 1.3 sec delayed so should always get shb empowered

[graceful perch]

okay, ty and what you guys think using a makro for dance/symbols? or is it better to not macro it?

[hazy breach]

It is better not to macro

As every single flag+blades window you want to delay your symbols a bit

Otherwise you will not supercharge your sectech

[graceful perch]

got it, tyty

[haughty mural]

not bad

[swift tinsel]

I need to do a big addon pruning wave

[haughty mural]

yea that also clears a lot occasionally

well depends how much are there but yea

[swift tinsel]

I only really use a handful so the rest are just remnants of the different setups over the years

[haughty mural]

i have mine down to 109 right now

i see

[swift tinsel]

I think I still have some Remix-specific ones lol

[vestal escarp]

one guildie had a fresh install coming into 10.0 and was the only one not having issues at ovinax prog

guess nobody gave it too much credit

[swift tinsel]

I did a full system reset in August so I'm surprised mine was as high as it was

[worn cape]

I sometimes get the urge to delete all of my addons and start over again 😂

[swift tinsel]

Same lol I have to stop myself from overhauling my WA setup every few weeks

[vestal escarp]

you can just backup your UI and mess with gamefiles howver you want

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah, I back up my WTF every other month or so

or if I do a big update

[vestal escarp]

mess as in, reinstall etc

[swift tinsel]

and I have a separate Drive spot for my full class WA strings

[slate lantern]

I'm trying to go as barebones as possible before the next raid. Bye bye elvui

[swift tinsel]

Oh yeah I ditched elvui mid-DF

[tepid trellis]

im still rockin elvui

cant let go of it

[swift tinsel]

default nameplates/raid/party frames except for my MW who uses cell

I wanna slim down my WA setup I think

Elvui was super nice and customizable but I noticed a big performance increase when I stopped using it

[honest saddle]

if you play on NA

you can also get pretty fucked with elv branches on patch days

unless you have the paid version

then less fucked

[tepid trellis]

who's american anyway

fake people

they dont exist

[swift tinsel]

NA = Not American

[hollow snow]

greenland lookin' real nice rn damn

[tepid trellis]

nah denmark is buying cali

did you not hear?

[hollow snow]

LMAO

true

gg

[vale pine]

Isn't america this real tv show inspired by big brother, in an attempt to entertain the rest of the world?

[shut sapphire]

Hey guys,

can someone give me a hint or something. Why is my macro not working as I 'm used to.

#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Symbols of Death
/use 13
/cast Thistle Tea
/stopcastingsquence
/cast [bonusbar:1] Shadowstrike; Backstab; Gloomblade

Its casting Backstab instead of Shadowstrike. If I Just use /use Shadowstrike it just activates SD but does no attack at all.

What do I miss?

[tepid trellis]

they made dance+strike macro not work

[shut sapphire]

rly? Thats just stupid xD

[vale pine]

yes

[tepid trellis]

not that we even do dance + strike all the time

more often that not i find myself doing dance+finisher

[shut sapphire]

At least Dance + Shuriken still works

WOuld that work?

[tepid trellis]

no idea, i dont use macros

to many variables as sub to macro stuff imo, more often that not it just costs you dmg

[frank musk]

If it is meant to be entertaining, i am facepalming too much at this show. 😛

[vale pine]

you know how it is with comedy, everyone has different taste.

[spark tusk]

Our tragedies are coming for the rest of the world don't you worry I hate it here

[swift tinsel]

Same. Finally got our grants unfrozen so we can work again lol

[vale pine]

just to be clear, i made a harmless joke. Did not intent to get super political, i know there is a lot of bad things happen there atm.

[swift tinsel]

Oh no worries!

[frank musk]

that was loud and clear, and i was laughing.

[spark tusk]

All good I hate it here and it's bad but I like finding humor in the terror where I can else what's the point

[vale pine]

[swift tinsel]

was gonna say, the day fuu makes an intentionally inflammatory remark is the day I question reality lol

[frank musk]

the day dave becomes real.

[lilac stag]

Dave is real

[swift tinsel]

Every day brings us that much closer to Dave

[frank musk]

What is the lore behind Dave?

[swift tinsel]

I think the story is someone's gf came up with names for each spec based on their icon

[vale pine]

somones girlfriend labled spec icons is the lore iirc

[frank musk]

Sounds awesome and funny.

We should totally use this lore to rename the channels to reflect this.

xD

[swift tinsel]

its not uncommon to call the outlaws pirates lol

[frank musk]

nope thats what they yarr.

[vale pine]

https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/duplicates/1hnfw22/i_asked_my_non_gamer_wife_to_guess_these_wow_spec/

[frank musk]

But in this channel, we are all dave specced.

[swift tinsel]

The old magic

[vale pine]

i assume she thought dave and jane are a couple

[swift tinsel]

I haven't actually seen the other classes lol

[frank musk]

looking at them right now

[swift tinsel]

lmao Mr. and Mrs. Devil

[frank musk]

xD

Angry Old Man

Survs icon does look suspiciously similiar to subs icon tho.

[vale pine]

it does, its the female version of the icon ^^

[spark tusk]

Fucking Lumberjack

[keen dome]

all worship dave. praise to dave and his friend, posioner

[frank musk]

He is a lumberjack and hes okay, until blizzard took all his power away!

[frank musk]

Praise Dave

[frank musk]

OMG!

[keen dome]

that's gonna confuse a lot of daves

[frank musk]

Theres only one true Dave.

[swift tinsel]

Just wanted to reserve the name in case I ever want to change it lol

[frank musk]

Perfect

[midnight river]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[plush roost]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[steel zinc]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet | Github Tracker

[jaunty heath]

Sorry but slimer got me big time

[vale pine]

haha ^^

[steel zinc]

Fuu you always good at predicting stuff. What are you thoughts on the tierset getting completly fixed? Yes or will not fix it? 🙂

[vale pine]

i hope we get bugfixes

[fair stump]

I thought sub's icon was a woman with green hair for the longest time

[swift tinsel]

if they only end up fixing one of the major bugs I hope its sectech's lower damage. the increased reset chance you can play around to a degree but it just doing less damage arbitrarily feels pretty bad

would it help to log 100+ sod/dance cb+sectech or does it not really matter at this point

getting a blizzard today so I have fuckall to do lol

[steel zinc]

also its the rng of working and not working

super annoying

[void ocean]

not rly a rogue question but does anyone know how to stop fckin herbalism hat from being on every time i log in

[midnight river]

Probably basic question, but i am a bit confused. If sectech comes of cooldown, how many seconds before major cooldowns its still worth using and when should I save it? It happens quite often that I get it off CD at around 30 sec until shadow blades and I never know If I should use it or not. (trickster)

[random comet]

drop herbalism 😂

[void ocean]

I was thinkin to delete the toon 😄

found it meanwhile, its the tauren lady near the crafting table

[random comet]

ty for that, i'd been wondering myself tbh

[spark tusk]

Deranged take herbalism hat is the best part of herbalism

[random comet]

enchanting hat is goated as well

if you're into it

very wizardy

[spark tusk]

It’s not bad

[void ocean]

most of my toons wear hoodies so the hat doesnt fit in

except my dk, it wears tophat

[swift tinsel]

if flag has ~20ish seconds left on its cooldown that's usually when I hold sectech

[midnight river]

and its probably better to miss one usage of SoD in the downtime than not having it for the main CDs right? because its sometimes pretty hard to know when I should or should not use SoD with SD before CDs so I have 2 stacks of both

[swift tinsel]

its always better to lose a use between cd's than in them, yeah

and you don't necessarily have to have 2x sod and 2x dance charges ready when flag comes off cooldown. you can have 1 sod and another with 10-12ish (12-15 if you spec Inevitability) seconds left on 2nd cd charge and 1 dance ready and your second with 30-40 seconds left on its cooldown

[swift tinsel]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uQH2cyFpJH9eVS_GC58EHYylpZM7Qtqt-CfHCF-pRBY/edit?gid=161258119#gid=161258119 has a good visualization for how you can use your sod/dance/sectech between big cd windows but practice absolutely helps the most

[midnight river]

Thank you

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[clever delta]

whats wrong with tier set btw

i was looking at them for frist time at ptr and seems to me that one assa seems completly random menawhile sub can play around it a bit?

[idle pilot]

Assasslaw's.

[alpine wraith]

when you use sec tech

even in dance the copies randomly can lose their stacks

and do around 80 to 90% less dmg

[clever delta]

sureeely getting fixed

i trust

[alpine wraith]

yea trust

[vale pine]

the stacks can drop from secondary triggers of abilities and we have multiple abilities with shadow damage effects. So the chances to drop stacks becomes higher than intended

[alpine wraith]

the sec tech one is a bit diff

[vale pine]

ye, that one is weirder

[alpine wraith]

as always our eternal fight with our wife continues

she is telling us to sleep on the couch for now

randomly resetting

[steel zinc]

I highly doubt it

I think in the next patch our tierset will get a rework and then cba with fixing this one

but I am a doomer

[clever delta]

no time for dooming this time around

[steel zinc]

bro idc if we are top dps if my dmg is dependent on the tier set not bugging out

[lunar bluff]

does DS compete with trickster in AOE?

[void hound]

yes

[vestal escarp]

It's always time to doom

https://tenor.com/view/rdj-robert-downey-jr-robertdowneyjr-comiccon-comic-con-gif-7809489789909776017

[pliant topaz]

what the doom about today

[alpine wraith]

just dont bug out on your CB sec techs in cds

dogh

from 34m to 16m hits

🦖

[steel zinc]

Sectech not doing the correct amount of damage, because our new tier set is bugged

[pliant topaz]

i was more surprised that we thought it was working correctly tbh

[alpine wraith]

it was working

but then they did some changes

then whoopsie

likely to fix the chars that had perma 10 stacks

but the coder forgot to let the stacks remain on copies inside dance

teheee

[swift tinsel]

now you can get these

[ember mural]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[haughty mural]

Dave can’t catch a break huh

[steel zinc]

You mean when we had the 10 stack buff sectech was working?

[thin lion]

Im a Believer that next ptr cycle something will Happen, I dont even Care If its a Nerf or a buff Just Something which Shows me that Blizzard did Not forgot that rogue is a class in their Game

[alpine wraith]

the 10 stack bug was character based

i didnt have it but my sec techs didnt bug out

until they changed it

[valid flame]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[valid flame]

How is sub looking compared to the other specs for 11.2?

[lilac stag]

Nothing changed

Tuning isn’t done

Check back in 2-3 weeks

[sand ore]

What about 11.3?

[valid flame]

Thank you 🙏

[young mural]

hey lovely people

does anyone know how the fuck do I sim embellishments

and also, what embelishment is better for sub?

[young mural]

guides say 2x duskthread lining or elemental focusing lens but idk

sus

ignore all messages above i've figured it out

[solar geode]

hello everyone, I'm new to rogue, where does it give advice on the wowhead guide as to what poisons are good for what scenarios?

[tepid trellis]

instant + atrophic

in 99% of cases

[sand ore]

i go wounds + crippling becuase i'm a fucking rebel

[tepid trellis]

rebel idiot*

[sand ore]

lol

the real 5head is to use no poisons

[tepid trellis]

nah nah you gotta have em on next tier (they proc tier)

you didn't hear that from me tho

[sand ore]

i'm doing maces only sub next tier

[solar geode]

did they fix the tierset on PTR? i heard it wasn't working a bit ago or something

[tepid trellis]

its still fucked

we lose staks waaaay more often than it should

and sectech doesent work with the 4set

[solar geode]

cant have shit in the undermine i guess

[tepid trellis]

oh we have "shit" our tierset

cuz thats the only way describe what it is

[alpine wraith]

it works but it sometimes resets itself because copies hates us

we are in a toxic relationship

but cant divorce

[tepid trellis]

i did 33 sectechs last night

not a single one got the amp

[alpine wraith]

damn that is sadder the other day at least some of mine had the amp inside dance

like you could notice the diff clearly

one did like 4m the other 2m or so

so maybe they broke it cleanly then they will fix it copium?

[hexed sluice]

Ain't there a cantrips mace next season, slap that baby in the offhand

[swift tinsel]

Weird I had like 66% amped on 100

[alpine wraith]

yea should only be 15% of chance to krangle per hit

[tribal blade]

don't do me like this cuh

my heart can't take it

[alpine wraith]

idk stealthi info clashes with mine and haptics but who knows

maybe same as the 10 stack perma they krangled some chars too

[uneven scarab]

cmon cuh

[tribal blade]

can anything sub related be truly bug free

or are we doomed to shoulder this burden for the rest of time

[alpine wraith]

they dont help themselves making things difficult

like NS and subterfuge have been super problematic forever too

they killed NS

[swift tinsel]

Yeah mine was straight on 33% krangle 66% amped, with ~7% of them doing split amped/non dmg

[alpine wraith]

yea kinda sameish

always using them in dance of course

[swift tinsel]

yeah, would strike - sod/dance - cb + sectech

at 10 stacks

[alpine wraith]

i didnt even strike

[swift tinsel]

I just did for consistent cp with premed

made each go super uniform

[alpine wraith]

i had full cps from autos and 1 stab every time

was just checking sec tech so

[swift tinsel]

ah, yeah I'd just stealth, send it all, then wait til they came back up and did it over and over while watching House lol

couldn't log at the time so I just coded them as 1 or 2 for non vs amped then did a =countif on the sheet and got percentages from there

[tribal blade]

so we're statistically boned

nice

[swift tinsel]

I'm kinda hoping this teaches them they need to fix akaari/SF so this shit doesn't happen anymore

but that's some cope

[wraith sphinx]

They aren't fixing akaaris shadows in our lifetime

[lilac stag]

Dave hides in shrubbery. Know what else is in shrubbery? Bugs.

[vestal escarp]

Kill all bugged talents and spell

There can be only one

[tribal blade]

@molten citrus i just did heroic ovi and had literally 0 fps issues whatsoever

so it seems like everything i did to optimize my game the past 2 days has helped a LOT

tf what happened to outlaw's stat prio, they hard stack haste now?

[haughty mural]

@lilac stag spear decision sounds better after every day ig, does it ?

🐛

[slate lantern]

They changed AR where we need haste to certain breakpoints for the build in order for AR to act the same as before, it's kinda wack but it is what it is

[twilit phoenix]

it's not kind of wack

it's insanely wack and dumb

literally no other meaningful contribution to outlaw

other classes got cool haste implementation

WW got that % damage increase equal to x% of haste

could have done that for outlaw

[slate lantern]

Yeah I was just trying to be kind about it

Too wack too furious

[slate lantern]

The fact that we are one of the only classes that benefits absolutely nothing from the major group wide cooldown is hilariously stupid

[tribal blade]

ahhh gotcha

that sounds incredibly cursed

[slate lantern]

It is, because the stats mean nothing changes for our gameplay from DF when we had 0% haste and now we just have less vers/crit

Because reasons!

[tribal blade]

that's truly tragic

[young mural]

DF rogue was strong

i missi t

[crisp lion]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

its been like 2 hours and i've had 0 split sec techs with non bug bug

but idk

maybe i try another hour then maybe i leave it to someone else to also try a bit

[alpine wraith]

it always bugs fully or none

[tacit coral]

im tryna learn sub rogue but i keep messing up cuz my luxthos rogue WA doesnt show my symbols of death counter

any of you got a weak aura that just displays the number of symbols of death?

[teal prawn]

!wa

[molten citrus]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

:fuu: Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

:kieron: Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

I think most of those do

[vale crane]

Im trying to Max out on First pulls is there anything I can do before the key starts besides potting ?

[fallow nimbus]

Pot and blades

[alpine wraith]

there are some keys where you can pop a turnip

and get snd

just rmember to stop hitting when there are 6 secs left on the pull timer

also use a SoD

to get 2 chargers

[wheat elk]

you guys got a addon or w/a that hides default combo points by any chance?

[vale pine]

https://wago.io/nMtPTCy5z

[wheat elk]

had a similar one but this one aint working aswell

it was fine 4 month ago -_-

[vale pine]

i haven't used it so unsure what changed

[alpine wraith]

they have changed api calls

but i havent checked if this one calls to one of the changed ones

maybe @spark tusk can check

i barely do was to even remember the shit i did for mine LUL

[lilac stag]

SUF can with the unit mods. Leaxtrix maybe allows for it as well

[tribal blade]

i was thinking about turning off SUF

to prune as many addons as possible

[alpine wraith]

im actually thinking of using xct again

it activated on the ptr and i kinda came to like it again

it also shows the whole dmg event

when i sec tech in a big pull i can se 300M

also tried another hour or so but still could not get any unbugged bugged sec techs

only fully bugged and non bugged

if anyone gets a split one tell me it is the rarest one i think so i only did like 150 or so i could have gotten lucky or unlucky

[wheat elk]

https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/betterblizzframes
this does the trick for anyone who needs it.

[lilac stag]

it's very minimal so I've just let it be

[velvet solar]

!macros

[tribal blade]

yeah honestly it doesn't take up much

[median mesa]

is macroing Symbols and SD together shit now?

[keen dome]

You can do it, but it isn't optimal or recommended for doing the biggest damage.

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[lilac stag]

It’s been sub optimal since the start of the expansion.

!macros

rip bot

[molten citrus]

i think moroes is down ye

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

here

[vale pine]

let me check

!macros

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns, including Cold Blood+Secret Techniques and Dance+Symbols.
The following macros are an exception:

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
```yaml
/cast Shadow Blades
/cast Blood Fury
/cast Ancestral Call
/use House of Cards```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[vale pine]

🎉 (i did not see a error on the log, so unsure why the bot was down)

[keen dome]

hehe sub optimal

[molten citrus]

Moroes just wanted a quick nap

[keen dome]

it is sunday after all

[lilac stag]

I thought it triggered off just macro without needing it plural. Then I was questioning life choices trying to help at 6am Sunday

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[brisk onyx]

god I love cb+tech macro

[lilac stag]

Too bad it’s a dps loss

[dusty totem]

Why is it bad?

[keen dome]

Which? The CB+SecTec macro? As I understand it you want to do it on the second SecTec in your burst window, so it gets more benefit from flag, etc. But if you have it macro'd, you'll always do it in the first. It's just more control to use it optimally to de-macro it. Or have a macro and a non-macro.

[dusty totem]

Ahh okay thx

[hazy breach]

If you have it macroed you often end up using it outside flag instead of inside it

Moreso than using it on first instead of second

As deathstalker theres not that much difference between first and second sectech in dances, its mostly flawless form stacks as trickster thats different

Flag stacks should be at like 20+ for the clones for the first one anyway

[keen dome]

Oh, my bad. Good to know for the future, though! THanks for the clarification, Eleem 🙂

So it just boils down to being able to more optimally control it's usage to make sure it is always up for the most optimal times (I.e, as you say, flag)

[hollow spear]

Yeah, I've noticed that macroing it gives you a pretty decent chance of completely shifting it outside your flag windows

The first one will be fine of course, but the later ones are a gamble

Maybe they could reduce the cooldown to 40 seconds or so, to give you some flexibility

[hazy breach]

If its gonna get changed it should get a larger change than that. Probably similar to what they did to ER by making it passive in some way

[keen dome]

That'd be cool.

I still think rolling it into SecTec makes the most sense

[kind bluff]

I don't mind how it is at all. Makes you at least think a little. I just have a macroed sec and an un macroed sec.

[minor aurora]

I just unlocked Shadow Dance, what sort of combo should I be using for single target dps? Before getting Shadow Dance I've kind of just been brainlessly using Shadow Blades, then Rupture (Backstab for Combo Points), Slice n Dice then Eviscerate..

very new, basically started playing yesterday

[tardy solar]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

this page should give you a good idea of the roations

[minor aurora]

Thank you, I'll take a look

[dusty totem]

Wait so u are level 22?

[minor aurora]

23, yeah.

I was running my first dungeons earlier and just ran through to 23 without even noticing

[dusty totem]

Okay then the guide will probably not help that much

[minor aurora]

I don't have some of the moves, im assuming the main damage dealers

flagellation, secret technique, etc.

[dusty totem]

Yeah so i guess try to keep uptime on rupture and slice and then use shadowstrike into evicerate while in shadow dance

But in general rogue is not that good while leveling we kind of need all of the pieces to do good dmg

[minor aurora]

im gonna need to adjust my keybinds, cause most of it is on the first bar which changes with shadow dance cause of stealth

[tepid trellis]

when the fuck does SnD even become fully passive?

havent leveled a char from scratch in years

lvl 18 apparently

[minor aurora]

sounds good, just means hitting that power spike is gonna feel amazing lol

[tepid trellis]

so dont press SnD just eviscerate

[dusty totem]

Yeah true

[dusty totem]

I think level 25 is gonna be pretty nice there u get symbols of death which should help with low energy so you can get more eviscerate out during your shadow dance

[minor aurora]

alright, thanks

gonna need to look at the talent tree asw just to see if ive screwed up somewhere already

[meager quiver]

which rouge its easier outlaw or sub?

[vale pine]

both have diffrent skill expressions

sub is more planed and is more knowlage based

outlaw is high apm and as a result more reaction based

[solemn creek]

Outside of dance/sd. We so energy starved

Then when dance/symbol. Ur like ultra instinct mode

I dont remember it being like that in dragonflight season 1/2

[lethal yew]

I've been playing assassination all season. Decided to try out sub and outlaw in the downtime between now and next season. It's definitely difficult getting used to managing the CDs for sub. The cdr makes it feel so wonky at times

[jaunty heath]

Rogue was an alt this season, I’m only now getting around to it, sub feels fucking great no? Just tuning keeping the play rate down or what?

[stoic walrus]

I came back to the game from dragon flight s1 and I’ll say it feels like it’s harder to keep up with everything and do decent dps as sub. Especially if you aren’t just popping CDs constantly good luck doing dmg at all. I can go from doing 150k dps to 2 mill no problem lol

[uneven scarab]

You have to pop cd’s constantly

[stoic walrus]

Once you run out of SD/Symbols dps tanks

[uneven scarab]

You cannot hold

or you will fuck yourself

[stoic walrus]

Anyone watch that dudes recent video on power creep?

[uneven scarab]

Yeah thats sub

Does no damage outside of cd’s

[stoic walrus]

That Venruki reacted to

Wow needs to reset back to abilities not having so many modifications. #MakeBaseAbilitiesGreatAgain

I remember when I would hit backstab and felt like I did something

Instead of just wasting energy to build cp and then hitting them with a napkin with evis until I can dance 2 times in a row then sit on my hands again

[uneven scarab]

i think its fine how it is now

Blizz just needs to stop creating these insanely complex talents

[stoic walrus]

Too much power creep across the game

[uneven scarab]

that cause issues for them in the future

[stoic walrus]

https://youtu.be/efrTJ9u2ixU?si=XMnsa9XgXIQdK3h-

This guy explains the situation really really well

[uneven scarab]

Idk power creep doesnt make sense to me

Its more like

Complexity creep

they feel the need to keep making paragraph long talents

[stoic walrus]

He does a good job of explaining it in detail so that it’s digestible

[molten citrus]

wow is kinda designed around power creep

[swift tinsel]

There are a few examples of power creep going too far but idk if rogue and sub specifically is one of them

[uneven scarab]

^

Yeah

[stoic walrus]

Rollllllll it back to when it wasn’t

[swift tinsel]

Nah a certain amount is good

[uneven scarab]

idk id rather my backstab do 10 damage and let the fun hard abilities go to the moon

[molten citrus]

you kinda can't

wow is based on seasons and expansions

[swift tinsel]

I like the ebb and flow feel

[molten citrus]

it will always creep

[uneven scarab]

yeah same