subtlety

[dry plank]

Double ass actually

[keen dome]

Ass is pretty good, honestly. I just didn't enjoy it as much as Sub.

[tribal blade]

my favorite part of being a sub main is having people on my friends list from pushing keys whispering me about sub changes

it's like being an arcane mage

[lilac stag]

Would that make you a #1 sub dabbler?

[mint swift]

Maybe

[uneven scarab]

True

[tribal blade]

"yo they buffed sub, what do you think?"

[uneven scarab]

[tribal blade]

is it viable in keys now?

[vestal escarp]

🎱

Check again later

[mint swift]

I feel like sub is chill tbh

[uneven scarab]

its pretty chill

We drop a planet sized nuke on people once in a while but outside of that its chill

[lilac stag]

@haughty mural I’ll get you a body type 1 shot once I wake up

[mint swift]

I do wish I had more energy outta dance
Ik it’s still shit damage
But I like pressing buttons

[keen dome]

Ahaha. I get like, four friends always messaging me about rogue changes in patch notes

Like they're trying to be helpful, it's cute

[lilac stag]

So they never message you? That’s sad.

[tribal blade]

kYoOt

[tribal blade]

LOL

that's a good one

took me a sec

[lilac stag]

Glad it landed

Text can be difficult

[haughty mural]

dw but ty (:

[tribal blade]

i feel like right now i can't complain because they did actually fix some major bugs which is a lot better than nothing

if i was gonna be picky i would say it's still a very small amount compared to what everyone else got

but so long as we get something i'm happy

[hazy breach]

But new tier is good

[tribal blade]

new tier IS good

knock on wood

they don't nerf

[lilac stag]

Will it still be good come launch is the question

[hazy breach]

I would be incredibly surprised if they dont nerf

[vestal escarp]

Something is getting nerfed

[hazy breach]

Assuming it works

[tribal blade]

i watched casual doing obscene amounts of dps

but it seemed he was at perma 10 stacks

[vale pine]

ye

[hazy breach]

Ye

But even without that bug

[vale pine]

tier bugged, and rly high power level

[vestal escarp]

Perma as in even outside dance?

[tribal blade]

yeah he built up to 10 and it never went down

[hazy breach]

Its still wild

[lilac stag]

Is there any way to drop the perma 10

[keen dome]

"Hey, did you see the rogue patch notes?!"

"They're in stealth"

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing it's a buff you can't click off

[grand wyvern]

my concern is they tune first and fix after cause their are late and they want to be sure nothing is too overtuned and we end up being trash

[vale pine]

wouldn't be the first time

but we will see

no reason to paint the devil on the wall

[tribal blade]

just pray we don't get the fury warr treatment

fury warr was riding the yoyo tuning train the start of this tier

it was wild

[lilac stag]

A 15% total buff?

[vestal escarp]

Attention?

[woven ruin]

is the 4pc not working? sorry if asked a million times

[tribal blade]

now THAT would be dope

[mint swift]

Is the sub the same next season

Ik I can read smth

[tribal blade]

truee

[mint swift]

But I’m beaindead

[uneven scarab]

yes

[lilac stag]

They got that last week

[hazy breach]

The reset chance is buggy

[finite carbon]

Hey guys

How are u

My fellow subs

[mint swift]

This is how I feel

[finite carbon]

Real

Hi scath

[lilac stag]

Sub: RS fixed. Shadow something fixed. 2-3% gain. Yayayay. Meanwhile….

[tribal blade]

uh those numbers are

waht

50% to execute

20% to rampage

jesus

[uneven scarab]

Yeah they got some fat buffs

[lilac stag]

you never pressed execute as fury

[tribal blade]

20% to their spender

[mint swift]

Fury warrior execute is like

[uneven scarab]

Did the arms buffs stay reverted or

[tribal blade]

which they hit often

goddamn

[uneven scarab]

are they back

[mint swift]

An imposter

[lilac stag]

Arms got the announced changes

[finite carbon]

Warrior

[vale pine]

where is the sub rogue execute?

[uneven scarab]

Its a warr tier

GG

[lilac stag]

Fury got announced plus those.

[finite carbon]

Is gonna get so fucked first week

[grand wyvern]

that's good my raidleader is a warrior and wanted to reroll rogue, if they buff warrior he won't take my loot

[vale pine]

execute waiting room

[finite carbon]

Gib execute to outlaw

[uneven scarab]

So true tho

[finite carbon]

For raid viability

[uneven scarab]

we seem fit for one

[tribal blade]

did they nerf bladestorm to counter those buffs

[uneven scarab]

Bladestorm sucks

[tribal blade]

HMMM

looks at queen add damage

[uneven scarab]

Fury maybe

[tribal blade]

ovi add damage

[uneven scarab]

For arms its ass

Slayer fury is a whole different beast

[mint swift]

Just slap them in the face

But it’s sub

So it’s like

Shadow slap

[tribal blade]

you know what, it's fine

then my key groups next season will be sub, fury warr and shammy

all the buffs for me

[lilac stag]

Fury was so ass ST.

But has instant aoe burst

So have fun balancing

[tribal blade]

haha yeah their boss dam sucks

[hazy breach]

Bro next season is gonna go hard. Ill be holding all my stacks and go: "next pull im pushing the nuclear button"

[uneven scarab]

[tribal blade]

"using cds next pull, don't use anything"

[tepid trellis]

That’s fine tho just don’t buff bladestorm odyns or the dragon roar thingy

[lilac stag]

Right now I’m assigned 1 portal platform 2. Literally all my CDs up standing next to portal afk.

[grand wyvern]

i'll probably end up holding my stacks til next season

[hazy breach]

Yes sir

[lilac stag]

Trying to get that assignment changed. Lol

[tribal blade]

now WE are the venthyr boomy

[vestal escarp]

Did venthyr boomie have to pool before cds?

[tribal blade]

reposting again because it works

[tribal blade]

they just did monster cd damage

[mint swift]

Hmm can I shitpost and yap in sub

[tribal blade]

and nothing outside cds

[uneven scarab]

Sounds like someone i know very well

[haughty bone]

yeah total despair if you died in ramp

[tribal blade]

but venthyr boomy was a special kind of hell because their cd was 3 mins

[vestal escarp]

That works if you're overtuned

[mint swift]

No funny images scath

D:

[tribal blade]

you had to press some self dispel on yourself if you had nothing to hit during cds

[haughty bone]

so i guess nobody knows, but if our tier set gets fixed are we in the dirt or are we benefitting from the fix?

[tribal blade]

if you got ranged

[vale pine]

nuclear rogue unlocked

[tribal blade]

or you got stunned

[lilac stag]

Remember when venthyr boomies swapped to, what was it fae, for rwf and couldn’t play it?

[mint swift]

God remember when they didn’t like us swapping covenants

[tribal blade]

i vaguely remember that, it was kinda crazy how much covenants changed how you played your spec

[lilac stag]

that stuck out to me for whatever reason with the covenant shit

[mint swift]

Me losing dps playing necro assa because I thought they were cool

[lilac stag]

You’re just a seli fanboy

[tribal blade]

i remember when necro almost got 3 target bonespike leggo

and then they nerfed it

sad days

because of damn outlaw

[uneven scarab]

I swapped covenants like 5 times on my rogue before they made it not aids

[finite carbon]

No

[uneven scarab]

Ill never forgive them

[lilac stag]

Kevin still 🐐

[finite carbon]

But that won’t stop fotmers

KEVIN

AND BRON CENA

[tribal blade]

this is the busiest i've seen this channel in a while

[tepid trellis]

other way around i think

venthyr was what got people killed 24/7

[finite carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/john-cena-wwe-urstrulyshailesh-gif-20805283

Was a personal fan of klebae myself tho

[tribal blade]

venthyr boomies pressed their cds and then got major tunnel vision

and didn't move for anything

[mint swift]

God fuck shadowlands

[lilac stag]

Venthyr was bis. Then some simc showed the other one for s2 I swore.

[tepid trellis]

everybody played venthyr in season 2

it was beyond broken

[tribal blade]

isn't it great that venthyr was the only covenant that gave rogue aoe

the other 3 were all ST

[lilac stag]

Maybe it was s2 to s3

[mint swift]

God you guys remember shards of domination

[finite carbon]

Winter shards bis

[mint swift]

Do you guys remember conduit energy

[vestal escarp]

The sockets?

[finite carbon]

Hot take

[tepid trellis]

conduit energy was never really an issue (for me)

[finite carbon]

I liked the coven system

[haughty bone]

https://tenor.com/view/war-vietnam-ptsd-shell-shock-moment-gif-3022747568394546158

[finite carbon]

Having 4 new toys to interchange was fun

[grand wyvern]

nostalgia goggles

[lilac stag]

RWF doesn’t nec have what ends up being bis by end of season.

[tribal blade]

i think SL would have been better received if you could have freely swapped covenants on day 1

[finite carbon]

Nah I parses good with blessing of summer ret

[jaunty heath]

When they were changeable they were good yes, before… not so much

[finite carbon]

For shits and giggles

[jaunty heath]

+1

[mint swift]

Yea

[finite carbon]

Fun when your casual

[tepid raven]

You should do last portal if you’re the only warrior otherwise it’s really troll

[tribal blade]

it's insane blizz thought the original cov system was good

[mint swift]

Bliz aren’t the smartest

[lilac stag]

Welcome to my life.

[mint swift]

Just look at hearthstone balancing

[tribal blade]

i had a guildie literally break down crying over covenants at the start

i'm not even joking

she was in tears

[tepid trellis]

i just closed my eyes

and picked one

rogue was turbo ass anyway

[uneven scarab]

True

[lilac stag]

Last portal or last one on platform 2

[tepid trellis]

platform 3

[tepid raven]

Last portal

On p3

[lilac stag]

K

[mint swift]

Also

Apparently even now, you have to grind so much anima to unlock shit

Like people doing legacy stuff

[tepid raven]

I wanted to get something recently

[tribal blade]

i'm so happy i did most of the covenant shit during SL

[tepid raven]

And when I realised how annoying it was going to be I just didn’t do it

[tepid trellis]

cant imagine collecting stuff in this game

out here we just raidlog

[mint swift]

I mean if you didn’t have a job and someone could play wow like 12 hours a day everyday

[tepid raven]

It didn’t help that during dragon flight I went to SL and swapped my covenant to Kyrian

[mint swift]

Would be fun

[mint swift]

I’m like at 250

[tepid raven]

And broke like all of my macros with my cds

[tepid trellis]

nah fuck that lol

[tepid raven]

Because it kept trying to cast the SL version of Spear

[tepid trellis]

got other games to play then

[grand wyvern]

i still don't know what pets do and i dont want to find out

[tepid trellis]

pokeman lite

[tepid raven]

Pokemon

[tribal blade]

this is taking forever

[tepid raven]

That is insane

[grand wyvern]

damn i said i dont want to know

[mint swift]

Isn’t there a 5K one

[tepid raven]

Cursed with knowledge

[tribal blade]

omg i hope not

dude each pet battle is SO LONG

and you have to win 1000

[tepid trellis]

id be very surprised if i even have 100 mounts

[alpine wraith]

yea there is a 5k one

[tribal blade]

against people using the most degen sweaty builds in the game

[alpine wraith]

i know someone who did it and he just used another account

[jolly pasture]

Have to

[alpine wraith]

at like 3-4am

took him like 2 or 3 days

[tribal blade]

lol good idea, i did test that

[cobalt edge]

without the current tier set bonus were back to backstabbing for dance macabre proc right?

[tribal blade]

if it's late you can sign up at the exact same time as someone you know

and win trade

[mint swift]

Graham

[uneven scarab]

nah

[mint swift]

I’m sorry

[tepid trellis]

hell nah

[uneven scarab]

Jesus

[tepid trellis]

backstab sucks donkey

[tribal blade]

i give up

[uneven scarab]

Shit does negative dps bro!

[tepid trellis]

shit does wet napkin dmg

it do not be worth it

[uneven scarab]

Now shadow strike on the other hand

Thats your boy right there

Hits like a truck

[tepid trellis]

im a freak

[mint swift]

0# if profiles

I wonder why

[cobalt edge]

thats great, hated that in dragonflight

[tribal blade]

HE'S HUGE

[hazy breach]

They significantly buffed strike in tww so its unlikely

Especially when we run rotten

[mint swift]

Saving this for late

[uneven scarab]

Thats what she said

[tepid trellis]

only two i use

[hazy breach]

Its never happening until we spec out of rotten, and probably not even then

[jolly pasture]

Fyrak mount bis

[tribal blade]

sadly everyone has heavenly onyx now from remix

[tepid trellis]

i got it back in bfa i think

[tepid raven]

[uneven scarab]

I got it from sha like a month before the event came out

[tepid raven]

I really like the owl

[uneven scarab]

annoying

[mint swift]

Graham

[tribal blade]

that's the insane way to get it

[mint swift]

What mounts you still need

[hazy breach]

Hoot Hoot mfer

[tribal blade]

i still need the queen mount

we kill her tomorrow so hopefully i get it

[tepid trellis]

i have both versions

[jolly pasture]

Queen mount is ass

Awful

[tribal blade]

i have the rare one already 😉

[tepid trellis]

i got the rare drop one

[tribal blade]

it dropped on our first kill

[tepid trellis]

on first hc

LOL

[tribal blade]

oh that's insane

[jaunty heath]

Me on my stupid bruto because I’m just a chill guy that always forgets to buy his consumables

Money well spent

[hazy breach]

Be sure to afk outside a dungeon so i can wave and meow to you when i see you next tier 🤝

[vale pine]

ronkels in sub chat 👀

[jaunty heath]

I swear the qol is insane

[tribal blade]

be quiet you'll scare him off

[mint swift]

God I remember in bad

*bfa

I thought like
3K gold was a lot

Imagine me finding bruto is 5 mil

[jaunty heath]

I am talking new Bruto

Op one

[mint swift]

Oh

[jaunty heath]

Auction house and mail together is just chefs kiss

[mint swift]

How much did that cost you again

[jaunty heath]

75€ I think?

[uneven scarab]

Couple bucks

[jaunty heath]

Idk I bought it with gold

[mint swift]

Ok good

[jaunty heath]

But I think it’s 75

[tribal blade]

i just gave a guildie gold equivalent to the token cost and she bought it for me

[jaunty heath]

I would’ve bought it without gold too tbh tho

[mint swift]

Can I have some

Because I’m awesome

[tribal blade]

can't remember if it was 1 or 2 mil

[tribal blade]

this number hits 10 this week

[jaunty heath]

2mil sounds about right

[tribal blade]

just need an auction to sell

[mint swift]

Bro I have like 180,000

[tepid raven]

Always it is my favourite part of the tier

[mint swift]

[uneven scarab]

Bro i have like 1500 gold

[jaunty heath]

it can’t hit 10

[tribal blade]

or 9,999,999

i just realized i replaced chasing IO with chasing gold cap

i have a problem

need to always see number go up

[lilac stag]

Get a heart rate monitor display on screen

[mint swift]

And a weather app

[jaunty heath]

That number go up has a limit tho

[lilac stag]

So does gold cap

[azure latch]

Omg.. I have like 50-100k 🤣

[keen dome]

Not in my heart.

[worn cape]

I had only like a 100 gold two weeks ago, just went fishing for a few hours during the day and now I am on 40k. Not amazing money but it pays the repair bills.

[jaunty heath]

You can have multiple chars but not multiple hearts

[keen dome]

Nah, a success!

[mint swift]

How

[keen dome]

By fishing!

[tribal blade]

fishing is the aboslute worst thing in wow

it's horrible

they should really rework it

[keen dome]

Disagree, I'm right here.

[tribal blade]

but i guess some people actually like it

[keen dome]

One of my guildies loves it. It's one of the main things she does and I dunno why.

[mint swift]

Tbh to make money I just have like 10 alts at 80 on skinning

[tribal blade]

hehe i can see why

[mint swift]

They just kill the supreme beast rare

[lilac stag]

@haughty mural

[keen dome]

Good orc

[tribal blade]

it's something you can do to keep yourself occupied but it doesn't require a lot of mental bandwidth

[keen dome]

Yeah, I think she podcasts during it

[mint swift]

Isn’t that also playing ret

[lilac stag]

back looks better on fem imo

[glossy turtle]

Why is everyone rocking orc, all i see are orcs

[mint swift]

Tbh whenever I’m skinning or herbing I just put on a podcast

[uneven scarab]

Orc OP now

[keen dome]

Agreed. Orcs are so wide

[tribal blade]

holy shit i want to be orc so bad

[glossy turtle]

Why?

[mint swift]

I just play goblin because I like them

[glossy turtle]

Orcs look sooo bad imo

[uneven scarab]

I think they buffed orc racial

more on use stats?

[tribal blade]

i love the male orc model

looks sick

[uneven scarab]

Male orc model is really good

[mint swift]

I prefer female orc

[uneven scarab]

Beefcakes

[tribal blade]

the way orc moves in stealth is also 10/10

[uneven scarab]

True

[mint swift]

My other options for race would prolly be like
Worgen, panda, dragon or kul titan

[mint swift]

You seem the goblin stealth

*seen

[uneven scarab]

im human still just because i havent felt like changing

2% all secondaries is still nice

[tribal blade]

yeah i had a goblin rogue in cata

that shit was not so great lol

[keen dome]

double HS charge too

[mint swift]

They sneakin

[uneven scarab]

Goblin stealth is bis but man theyre so ugly

[tribal blade]

TIME IS MONEY FRIEND

[jaunty heath]

Gnome sprint

[mint swift]

Hush

[tribal blade]

need LE in here to talk about goblin stuff

[uneven scarab]

stinky goblins

[mint swift]

Also

Saw this sick mog a bit ago

[uneven scarab]

Hard

[mint swift]

Assa creed style mog

[uneven scarab]

White cloak goes crazy

Yeah

[mint swift]

At least I think that’s what it’s going for

[tepid trellis]

mfer cosplaying corpse Altair lol

[lilac stag]

its only from sources. so it's not that amazing

[mint swift]

Those trading post cloak things are awesome but I just don’t wanna spend my tenders on them

[keen dome]

they're the most important monthly purchase imo

[tribal blade]

yo this is really good

i like it

[mint swift]

Yea I wish I could get it

[mint swift]

I should probably start getting them

[lilac stag]

bit better lighting

[mint swift]

This is my current transmog

[keen dome]

I have every colour of cloak, hood, helm and shoulders they've added haha

I just like collecting them

[lilac stag]

Thankfully they’re cheap

[mint swift]

I think they should just add an option where you can recolour them

Instead of having 50 different ones

[lilac stag]

recoloring would break the game. Hah

[keen dome]

Yeah, one item with colour toggle would be interesting, then adding more colours as they go

It'd be the same as they are now, I guess

[tribal blade]

scath is right, any time they change a system in wow everything breaks

better not to risk it

[mint swift]

Bro wow is being held together by duct tape and hope

[tribal blade]

it really is

[lilac stag]

Painters tape

At this point

[mint swift]

They should just remake the engine if they wanna continue wow
Wow 2

[keen dome]

nah

it's fine. slaps wow this bad boy can fit so many hats.

[mint swift]

The first slap would break it into bits

[lilac stag]

Yea I finally spent a few minutes on looking at differnt mog option. I have a red one I used for a good while. Have to dig that one out.

The boots and shoulders are very hit or miss on orc

[tribal blade]

i might do it if stoneform isn't hard required in keys

[mint swift]

I just have a shirt and shorts

[keen dome]

Casual mogs are great

[tribal blade]

the last time i posted my char's mog it resulted in someone getting banned from the server

not even joking

[mint swift]

Why

[keen dome]

lmao, what the heck

[lilac stag]

I like the overall reduction def, feels like it covers bleeding out more but I’m not also pushing any crazy keys

[worn cape]

Step 1: Fish
Step 2: Sell fish

[tribal blade]

this is my char

[mint swift]

Kingsbane gang

[tribal blade]

and to quote the guy he said something about it looking like a "woke lgbt lesbian" or something

[mint swift]

Oh lmao

[tribal blade]

and then then he got told not to do that

and then got banned

[mint swift]

Thought it was gonna be a “mommy” comment or smth thirsty

[tribal blade]

and then he made another account and came in here spamming stuff again

[keen dome]

oh yeah, it looks rad

[tribal blade]

and got banned again

[keen dome]

lmao

[alpine wraith]

ah yea it was fun

[tribal blade]

it was crazy haha

[alpine wraith]

it does look like a strong lesbian but he made it too far

[tribal blade]

HAHA it does

it's so hard to make anything dwarf work

[alpine wraith]

this lady can carry some noobs

[lilac stag]

It’s a dorf. You’re not supposed to be able to gender id

[alpine wraith]

body type b

true true

[tribal blade]

the model just blows

[keen dome]

I have the peak performance Sub outfit

[alpine wraith]

i have the same mog since mog became a thing

[keen dome]

Maximum purple

[alpine wraith]

ninja outfit

[mint swift]

I wish I could wear that without my ears clipping

[keen dome]

Yeah, like we discussed the other time: ear toggle when

'cos it goes both ways. Sometimes you want them and they vanish!

Also see vulpera ear issues

[lilac stag]

Very purple

[tribal blade]

when are daggers gonna count as 1 handers

is the real question

for tmog

[lilac stag]

Never

[tribal blade]

it sucks to hard mogging as sub

and sin

[mint swift]

Yea

[umbral relic]

i don't see all these colours even in my 'non possessed area' 😮

[mint swift]

Let me mog swords blizzzz

[keen dome]

I think the trading post items are weird about displaying

They're double hidden if you don't own them

[mint swift]

Bliz trying to make a working system

[tepid raven]

Just taking a lil peak into your realm

[glossy turtle]

how is orc op?

[lilac stag]

Assa links in sub chat

[glossy turtle]

usb isnt much differnt

[mint swift]

Look how huge those differences are

[lilac stag]

racials aren’t. Congrats

[glossy turtle]

OPPPP

i just dont get it, they uglyyyyyy

[leaden prairie]

its a full % ahead than dwarf

[tribal blade]

thing is i could double win by swapping off dwarf and looking like a beast orc

[lilac stag]

Maghar just happens to be best overall for offense and def (arguably) as sub

[hazy breach]

Burst specs like having an extra trinket from their racials

[mint swift]

Just sat through a 2 hour lecture and Barry understood anything

[leaden prairie]

and tbf i do thjink cds get muhc more value in m+

[glossy turtle]

but isnt that in a perfect world? that is assuming you dont make errors

[leaden prairie]

like in low keys it wont really matter but in high keys cds scale so high

[leaden prairie]

uh

i hate these type of answer

i doesnt mean anything

[tribal blade]

can't really mess up orc racial, you just macro it

[uneven scarab]

Ye

[glossy turtle]

the race, yes i suppose. Or the fact that playing better might be the focus instead of trying to minmax races?

[lilac stag]

why not do both?

Why does it have to be either or?

[glossy turtle]

well yes, if you wanna look clapped

then go ahead XD

[leaden prairie]

ok but why would it be less than a %

if you play worse

[lilac stag]

My orc has rizz

[alpine wraith]

dont worry you always have noggenfogger to save you

or deviate delight

[leaden prairie]

maybe if you play worse its actually more who knows

like i never get this answer

[tribal blade]

if i can gain a full 1% of dps AND look better doing it it's a huge win

[lilac stag]

dorf in plate looks amazing

Dorf in leather. Not so much.

[glossy turtle]

cause the dps gain from getting better will probably be higher then changing race. so like just getting better and playing the race that looks cool seems better to me. unless you wanna run that transformer toy on repea

[uneven scarab]

Maybe i go orc at the start of next season

[leaden prairie]

thats another discussion

[tribal blade]

just not a fan of the races that are cut in half

[uneven scarab]

well yeah getting good is always the answer

[leaden prairie]

you said this

[lilac stag]

Change toy is fun during prog. Folks trying to land on diaper baby

[glossy turtle]

i dont see how that goes against what i just said 🙂 just a supplying to what I said.

but is it worth gaining 1% and giving up stoneform?

[lilac stag]

depends on your goals

[vale pine]

does not seem to stay that way in 11.1

[lilac stag]

And the season

[tribal blade]

apparently stoneform isn't as busted next season as previous seasons

[glossy turtle]

but idk is 1% overall gonna make or break a key?

or is it just abt getting higher number on details?

[alpine wraith]

yea xav does not break your neck anymore

[tribal blade]

well when keys are timed by seconds yes

[alpine wraith]

jump hjumping

imagine pressing spacebar

and hitting for 8m

that was xav

before 3 nerfs

[umbral relic]

i want to give a huge shoutout to the number 1 rogue on nerubar actually

[lilac stag]

Miss a key by 2 seconds. Yes

[glossy turtle]

but wouldnt that be because of erros? that you are seconds off

[umbral relic]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/43215213?mode=detailed&zone=38&metric=dps&spec=Subtlety&class=Rogue&difficulty=5

top 1 is sub

[glossy turtle]

unless its like at the highest of highest levels ig

[umbral relic]

with strong sub talents

[tribal blade]

when you're pushing title range keys it's very common to barely make timers

[lilac stag]

Why are we spamming this?

[hazy breach]

Even if orc or maghar doesnt sim the highest, it makes for the biggest crits, thus it is the best race

[lilac stag]

Omg raider io talents. Weeee

[alpine wraith]

yea biggest crit biggest race

[glossy turtle]

For sure, but I dont think that would be the case if you played perfectly.

[alpine wraith]

and as always human wins in the end

[hazy breach]

Did you see hacha. Assa has some big crit tech now too

[glossy turtle]

unless its the 19s or 20s. although 20 nw was timed with like 1:30 left

[vale pine]

female undead best for the cool animations

[glossy turtle]

or something

[tepid raven]

Hacha pilled

[leaden prairie]

why would it change

[tribal blade]

yeah but people don't play perfectly all the time

[hazy breach]

20m+ envenoms

[alpine wraith]

smh imagine sec tech not being a split noodle

[vale pine]

item and gear scaling posisble

[alpine wraith]

or coup

[tribal blade]

like sometimes a lot can go wrong in a key but timer is barely salvagable

so you keep going

[vale pine]

also unsure if that was single target or dungeon slice

[tribal blade]

and it's down to the wire

[vale pine]

so maybe i am wrong

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately sectech is split into multiple different hits (and blades is seperate) but if you were to combine them next tier you could prob hit 50-60M with it 💀

[glossy turtle]

But that 1% assumes you play it perfect though. or just robot like ig

[tribal blade]

macro orc racial to cds, don't think about it anymore

[alpine wraith]

yea sec tech can go even higher than that

but we get the SPLIT treatment

[uneven scarab]

Fuck the SPLIT treatment

All my homies hate split hits

[keen dome]

I want a 60M damage crit...

[tepid raven]

I mean the reason it doesn’t matter is because if you can’t make use of it you’re not going to be doing content where that % matters

[hazy breach]

I like big crits and i cannot lie

[tepid raven]

[alpine wraith]

we will also get a new breed of people asking why we dont stack DM to 11

[tribal blade]

but i get your point, stoneform is a very potent defensive

[umbral relic]

do you use Flask of Tempered Versatility or Flask of Alchemical Chaos ? icy veins and wowhead doesn't use same

[alpine wraith]

chaos for me

juicier pots

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter

[alpine wraith]

but if you dont use pots vers or mastery is fine

[uneven scarab]

Chaos more stat overall yeah

[alpine wraith]

chaos is also rng

kinda

[uneven scarab]

True

[hazy breach]

They sim pretty much exactly the same

[alpine wraith]

if you have haste on cds it is meh

but if you have mastery

[uneven scarab]

can proc haste

[alpine wraith]

POG

[glossy turtle]

haha I dont really wanna play orc, mostly cause I dont like how they look. I just dont think a 1% gain when played perfectly, would be that big of a factor. I like belf and nelf. I do play nelf cause of meld so im not soo innocent afterall

[alpine wraith]

1% is quite a bit in the grand scheme

[lilac stag]

I love when Ronkley shows up to sub chat.

[alpine wraith]

but it is also subjective

[keen dome]

😻

[umbral relic]

ok i get it

[tribal blade]

yeah go for it, it's not the end of the world

[umbral relic]

i'm still stunned that our best stat is versatility

[lilac stag]

Don’t play orc. eZ

[alpine wraith]

best stat is always mastery

trust

just crit

[vale pine]

time to make a weakaura that counts the hit damage together

[glossy turtle]

I did like having another crackshot window with nelf

[umbral relic]

mastery i get it, but versatility over crit, sheesh

[hazy breach]

But is wowhead and icy veins different

[alpine wraith]

there was a mod for xCT

[hazy breach]

Which one is saying chaos

[lilac stag]

It’s been vers/mastery for 4 expansions now?

[alpine wraith]

i may behin using it again

[uneven scarab]

We have quite a bit of gaurenteed crits, so its pretty devalued

[alpine wraith]

it popped on my ptr char and i was like

oh liked this

[umbral relic]

classic player returning home because blizz stopped doing furry shit

[lilac stag]

toxic

[tribal blade]

vers being a good stat is a blessing because more DR

[uneven scarab]

Frfr

[tribal blade]

significant

[alpine wraith]

tbh they didnt even get the good scaleys

the burly ones would have made better fanart

and yea sub is silly tanky with the vers and extra drs

[keen dome]

truth

[umbral relic]

rly good point, forgot about that

[keen dome]

Also been cooler

[opaque snow]

so i heard that subs gonna be it next tier

[lilac stag]

love when classic Andy’s find retail and still think it’s Xbox chat

[opaque snow]

YOU ALL SUB ENJOYERS EXCITED?

[keen dome]

big dragon men are here to punch demons

[lilac stag]

memories

[alpine wraith]

yea kinda cool

[lilac stag]

Good times

[umbral relic]

you said the word, i'm main tanking undermined.

[alpine wraith]

nothing like being insulted in 4 diff languages

[hazy breach]

Its already it bud

Get on with the times

[vale pine]

<insert why not both meme>

[alpine wraith]

always chaos

ALWAYS GAMBLE

[hazy breach]

I see

[alpine wraith]

777

[uneven scarab]

The only place a 14 year old can yell slurs/swears at a grown man

[alpine wraith]

🎰

[vale pine]

optional/alternative

i listed chaos

it sims about equal, so think there is no harm using it

[alpine wraith]

well you have less dr

[hazy breach]

Fair enough

[alpine wraith]

so there is harm kinda but just always proc mastery on cds

and then crit

ez

[uneven scarab]

Its truly that simple

[alpine wraith]

and vers outside cds so your shit ring that randomly does dmg does more dmg

and your autos are stronger too

[umbral relic]

it's all becoming clear

[lilac stag]

Gamba raid. Keep on Gambaing.

[alpine wraith]

yea also remember to proc radiance

on every dance

not like me where it avoids dances

for some reason

[hazy breach]

Chaos mostly makes your potion better

So your burst goes wild

[umbral relic]

radiance?

[lilac stag]

Have you tried not dancing?

[alpine wraith]

weapon enchant

[umbral relic]

oh i like that

[uneven scarab]

Yeah the stat proc

[hazy breach]

A safety dance?

[glossy turtle]

Does sub benefit alot from lust?

[alpine wraith]

nah

we are already kinda energy filled in cds

[uneven scarab]

Shaman buff though

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/safety-dance-men-without-hats-dance-moves-choreography-synthpop-gif-19334289

[glossy turtle]

daumn, is it just all energy classes?

[alpine wraith]

we dont get reduced gcd from haste

it is what it is

[uneven scarab]

[hazy breach]

Not necessarily

[glossy turtle]

Yeah, just forgot what haste gives to rogue, just aa speed right?

[hazy breach]

But ye sub doesnt get much from BL

[alpine wraith]

monk got some haste changes

so now haste is good

[hazy breach]

But thats both a blessing and a curse

[uneven scarab]

Regen/ aa speed

Very little regen tho

[alpine wraith]

sub got some rupture ticks

bl was big when shadow rupture was a thing

because it did dmg calculating all ticks

what a shitty time

overall it was not big but the highroll possibility was big

[glossy turtle]

Any playstyle changes for sub?

[lilac stag]

I love not know if lust was pressed or not via gameplay only.

[uneven scarab]

[alpine wraith]

depends i think we will do the waiting game for tier set to not krangle

the diff between 0 to 10 stacks

is too big

even on normal dances

[uneven scarab]

jesus

[alpine wraith]

so just rupture and chill

[uneven scarab]

60% amp was maybe a bit generous

[lilac stag]

I either hear the WA, or everyone bitching for someone too press it.

[alpine wraith]

it is 2 amps even

[glossy turtle]

Haha yeh, after playing shammy on alt i would sometimes just forget to lust, cause i didnt think abt it at all ok outlaw

[alpine wraith]

the finisher one then the shadow one

[uneven scarab]

Usually hear everyone screaming lust before i even realize

[uneven scarab]

True holy shit

i completely forgot about the 2pc

wtf

[glossy turtle]

Also didnt know when to lust

[umbral relic]

is the tier set still bugged?

[uneven scarab]

yes

[glossy turtle]

Just used to not caring abt it

[alpine wraith]

only partly

only shadowed finishers not working with it

[lilac stag]

Trigger mages. sorry don’t have list pet out. Need defensives.

[umbral relic]

so we are only partly S tier?

[lilac stag]

C tier

[uneven scarab]

anyone saying sub is S tier is tweaking

Its ptr

[molten citrus]

D tier

[uneven scarab]

F tier

[umbral relic]

https://tenor.com/view/stitch-frustration-史迪奇-gif-4802586

[lilac stag]

No one plays the spec. Pugs won’t give a shit unless it’s busted. If it’s busted it’s getting nerfed.

[umbral relic]

i gambled everything on that spec

[vale pine]

11.1 tierlist just dropped 😮

[umbral relic]

lol

[uneven scarab]

Wonder when they’ll delete dev and pres

[glossy turtle]

Official and confirmed i suppose

[uneven scarab]

Since aug is the only evoker spec

[alpine wraith]

preservation is quite cool

[lilac stag]

Love alphabet tiers

[umbral relic]

evoker being draktyr it doesn't exist for me

leftist in life racist in game

no scalies in my pugs

[glossy turtle]

The two leaf girls on the top

[vale pine]

they don't know

[lilac stag]

I know. Reading is difficult.

Especially for N.A.

[leaden prairie]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/reading-sign-cant-stop-me-no-one-can-stop-me-gif-13921932

hey man i can read

i just choose to not

[lilac stag]

I just read stickers that say this president did that

[molten citrus]

Guys I just got back from the future

[uneven scarab]

Saw one of those on the gas pump today

[uneven scarab]

Sub S+++++ Tier???

[molten citrus]

Sub set received a 75% nerf and we all went on with our lives

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/christopher-lloyd-1point21gigawatts-back-to-the-future-doc-gif-9470027

[uneven scarab]

https://tenor.com/view/shocked-doc-brown-back-to-the-future-startled-stunned-gif-16002179

[lilac stag]

We have Cheeto stickers on eggs out here.

[uneven scarab]

Wtf

[haughty mural]

me thinks its only one

[lilac stag]

I’ll have to take a picture next time I see it.

[opaque snow]

ngl

sub is the only rogue spec

that isnt using tea

Its a sign

kinda funny though the rotation hasnt change much since SL

[hollow spear]

I think some ds m+ builds use tea

[lilac stag]

This one is photoshop, but we had the legit ones on the shelf. Spoiler since political

[keen dome]

lmao

[hazy breach]

It was still worse in every single scenario when i simmed it for current patch

Its less bad on DS than on trickster ye, but vigor practically does nothing except make tornado less awkward to use

Whereas cb has lethality before it, which is +2% crit

[hollow spear]

No clue why people are using it, just saw it. I think Kush also uses it on PTR.

[hazy breach]

And seeing as the new tier takes sectech to the moon surely i have a hard time seeing it being any different this time around

[burnt dawn]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[uneven scarab]

Seen plenty of those LMAOO

[keen dome]

By the way, Eleem: thanks for the help on understanding the whole non-macro SoD/Dance. It's making a lot more sense now I'm playing without it. And I can more concisely control when I use SoD.

[molten citrus]

Feelcraft

[hazy breach]

It feels so good as trickster to sod at exactly 10s cd of sectech so sectech precisely comes up when you want it to

[keen dome]

Yeah!

[alpine wraith]

or even 15 if you have coup

[keen dome]

I made some adjustments to my binds and WA, so I'm nailing the 10s window a lot more consistently now. Also just a lot more control of being able to dance dance sod sectec

[alpine wraith]

you feel like a math god

[lilac stag]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e2w0iHBCVp8K7hdSk1T8RKtUK9lr4FsRqFWd68FCQnk/pubhtml?gid=579089422&single=true

[mighty citrus]

oh where is that, i need to know as well and wanna get rid of my macros 😄

[hazy breach]

Can probably search through igestalts messages yesterday (or two days ago?)

[lilac stag]

@vale pine can we put eleem’s sheet as a bot command?

[keen dome]

Uh, two I think yeah.

[alpine wraith]

sub is just a spec where you want buttons separated

[hollow spear]

The best kind of craft

[lilac stag]

It’s was easier than simc

[hazy breach]

But the TLDR is that during your main burst window. If you have them macroed you wont supercharge sectech

Or you need to delay your dance a few seconds

Neither of which are good

[remote shuttle]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[vale pine]

sure, can add it to !bugs

[lilac stag]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1e2w0iHBCVp8K7hdSk1T8RKtUK9lr4FsRqFWd68FCQnk/pubhtml?gid=579089422&single=true

[tulip gorge]

if you play with sound on you can hear when you are getting lust

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-rave-dance-gif-15389662957248741331

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

[mighty citrus]

this one? [15:02]iGestalt: So, just to make sure I understand it right: For the second dance + symbols you'd effectively go 'Dance -> Evis -> Symbols -> SecTec'. 'Cos this'd make SecTec be ready to go, without needing to wait and gurantee it's buffed by symbols.

[lilac stag]

Nah. Can’t hear anything over bangers.

[vale pine]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Spreadsheet| Github Tracker

[alpine wraith]

basically we play around sec tech

and you use SoD for it

if you macro dance and SoD

it can mess things up

[lilac stag]

Thanks

[alpine wraith]

you can also selectively choose to use SoD when 10 secs are left for sec tech on an evis

or 15 secs on a coup

and get to sec tech after

[mighty citrus]

i guess the whole point of minmaxing sod hinders me from getting good as sub

forever doomed to play a spec i dont like too much 😄

cause i pull better numbers there

[alpine wraith]

well it is not min maxing kinda more like how the spec works with the talents after changes

[lilac stag]

sub does best when you take time to learn it proper. No real effective short cuts

[keen dome]

By demacroing, you have more control over when they go. So you can Dance -> Eivs -> SoD -> SecTec on your second dance.

[uneven scarab]

always play what u enjoy

Shouldn’t be playing something you dont find fun

[lilac stag]

You can still kill stuff with macros

[keen dome]

Because you won't have (as Trickster) SecTec off CD when the first dance ends.

(Without a coup iirc)

[hazy breach]

More importantly you can Dance > Evis > Sod > Evis > Sectech

Whereas with a macro it would be Dance+sod > Evis > Evis > sectech

[keen dome]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

Sometimes you get procs so its Dance+sod > Evis > Sectech anyway

But not always

[lilac stag]

Removing Elvui & Removing Dance macros. My 2025 mission for sub enjoyers.

[keen dome]

For what it's worth, too. I'm a heroic guy so I don't do high-end stuff. I was still able to do some 95, 98 parses with the macro. So it's not the be all, end all. But it's absolutely worth learning it the proper way.

Esp as I believe in S2 it's going to matter a lot more?

[hazy breach]

Im still using elvui, its not great but as long as you dont have their unitframes its not too bad

The unitframes really fucked me up on ovinax though, swapped to cell

[uneven scarab]

Also using elv but not the unitframes yeah

[keen dome]

Default UI and weakauras here.

[lilac stag]

I just don’t see a use for it but resources.

[alpine wraith]

having my own ui that is timeless

always gets the weird comments

[keen dome]

is it the cool car UI

[uneven scarab]

I have seen hachas a couple times randomly

Its quite something

[hazy breach]

I just like the tints across stuff

But ye its bloated

[alpine wraith]

relic from another time

[keen dome]

My worst UI element is my giant chatbox but I like to post.

[alpine wraith]

i even disabled xct

[tribal blade]

they need to keep making base UI better

[alpine wraith]

but maybe i go back

[tribal blade]

i'd like to rely on addons less

[worn cape]

Everyone talks about ElvUI hogging resources, but I never notice anything tbh. Does it make you guys lag or something?

[keen dome]

I think you can get away with just WA, honestly. Oh, and plater.

[uneven scarab]

I like xct

[alpine wraith]

resources are relative

[uneven scarab]

hard to play without it

[alpine wraith]

if you have 258gb ram for ex

[hazy breach]

Yes. Certain bosses are especially bad

[tribal blade]

as long as you have WAs the rest aren't a big deal

[alpine wraith]

chrome hogging 10gb is whatever

[keen dome]

Damn, that's a lot of ram

[grand wyvern]

what is elv unitframes problem?

[keen dome]

I'd say Plater too simply because of how much information can be distilled into it but yeah. WA's are the goat. So versatile.

[lilac stag]

My UI isn’t broken on patch days. Beta testing as N.A. is already enough of a struggle without waiting on elv to fix their shit.

[tribal blade]

yeah true a good nameplate addon is necessary

[hazy breach]

Ovinax this tier i went from 25 fps to like 50 fps when the adds spawned by not having the elvui unit frames and changing some plater settings for the parasites

[alpine wraith]

blizz default frames are kinda ok

just not a lot of customization vs for ex platter

[lilac stag]

Get to 100fps if not playing assa

[worn cape]

I mostly just really like their databars 🤷‍♀️

[hazy breach]

Idk uses too many resources compared to other unitframes for some reason

[lilac stag]

My fps drop with assa spreading vs playing tricky was quite amusing. Had to tweek unitframes

[vale pine]

i had a talk about this too, its incredible just how much weakauras, plater, etc eat from your fps budget

[molten citrus]

elvui is also kinda bad when new seasons/expansions drop

[hazy breach]

Luckily for me i dont play on the North Alpha server so its alright

[lilac stag]

I wish we didn’t raid on reset day.

So much pain

[keen dome]

The biggest resource hog I refuse to remove is All The THings..

[haughty mural]

what the hell

[keen dome]

It's ALL the things.

[haughty mural]

[grand wyvern]

almost like a chrome tab

[keen dome]

I have just over half of all the things in WoW

[molten citrus]

you don't like SUF?

i see a lot of people have swapped to it, away from elv

[hazy breach]

SUF is just unitframes no?

[leaden prairie]

Yes

[molten citrus]

ye

[lilac stag]

which is why it’s perfect

[hazy breach]

Im using cell for that

[molten citrus]

ye that's why i asked

[leaden prairie]

So you have cell + elvui

[hazy breach]

I dont have elvui unit frames

[leaden prairie]

I don't like having add-ons that overlap

[lilac stag]

This is nightmare fuel

[leaden prairie]

That's mostly why I stopped using elvui

Cause you use elvui but you still use plater etc

And I was replacing a lot of things with weak auras

[molten citrus]

i was just asking if you didn't like SUF compared to Cell basically

[leaden prairie]

And then it's just too much that you don't use

[hazy breach]

Cell feels like its the plater but for unit frames

[lilac stag]

So bloated?

[hazy breach]

Idk y'all do whatever you like

[lilac stag]

Plater does a shit ton

[molten citrus]

ic

[lilac stag]

but man it allows for some awful implementation

[molten citrus]

was just curious

[lilac stag]

watching some of the “packs” include spell reflect for every class.

[hazy breach]

Its really easy to show/hide debuffs and organize what you want to see on your frames

[molten citrus]

the main reason i use SUF is just for the appearance ngl

[hazy breach]

Moreso useful for healers than rogue but still

[leaden prairie]

I ended up using weak auras for everything that isn't clickable basically

Cause uh

Idk I always want very specific things

And add-ons can't do it

[hazy breach]

Im using a clickable WA to apply my poisons

I know its horrible for resources but its so comfy

[vale pine]

plater, weakauras and elvui are the death trinity of fps

[vale pine]

not too bad if it only loads outside of combat

[hazy breach]

Ye only outside combat

[vale pine]

should be whatever then

[molten citrus]

i find classes with maintenance buffs like poisons unplayable without clickable WAs

poisons, shaman's flametongue/windfury weapon shit, etc

i will eventually forget

[keen dome]

Clickable WA for poisons?

[molten citrus]

ya

[keen dome]

That's such a good idea. Why didn't I think of that and also make one.

[vale pine]

a lot of things you can do with weakauras can be done a lot cheaper in addons

[naive hemlock]

Opie for poisons

[steep loom]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[molten citrus]

there's an addon that can remind me to reapply poisons and click it's ui?

[keen dome]

Probably wouldn't be a hard lua to write..

[vale pine]

not sure if exsorsus can't do that already, but techically there is no reason why you can't do it as addon

but nobody thinks about that ^^

we just always default to weakauras

[keen dome]

You'd just look to see if the buff is there or not, right? And then call a UI element or something and then make it cast 1, then pause, then cast 2.. And maybe a check every 10 minutes to see if the buff is there or on zone load?

[lilac stag]

Someone write it

[molten citrus]

i'm not good enough to try and write my own addon

[keen dome]

Same, honestly. I prefer WA but it's making me think.

[molten citrus]

in SL there was a raid buff/consumeable addon or WA

that popped up on ready check

is that still around

[leaden prairie]

I'm not sure tbh

I think these type of things would still be restricted

Cause it's casting a spell (or calling a macro )

By the addon

Which is were blizzard draw the line

So like, the fact it works with limitations as weak auras, and can break

I would assume the same would happen with add-ons

[vale pine]

yes

weakauras are basically addons

but with worse performance, quite a lot of overhead

think of it like this

[hazy breach]

"Exorsus" 👴

[vale pine]

you send your 2 children to buy something at the local store, one block away from your house.

[keen dome]

Someone should revive SliceAdmiral

[vale pine]

if you send the first one, he goes to the shop, then picks up the thing, then comes home again - 5 minutes work

thats a addon

the second one is not as smart, so he walks to the shop and takes a picture of the product, comes home, asks you if thats the right product. Goes back to the shop, then realizes it forgot the money at home, so comes back home, takes the money, and then goes back to the shop to finally buy the item and come home. - 20 minutes of work

thats weakauras

[alpine wraith]

gotta love the in between libraries eh

i mean it is what it is people learn with some things and they kinda stick

[vale pine]

so what we do is

with weakauras

[molten citrus]

is everyone still using mRT these days

[alpine wraith]

likely lots of peoplem that know wa could do addonst

but cba

[vale pine]

we essentially only always call the not so smart children to do all our work

and as a consequence... have a huge amount of cpu time wasted

[hazy breach]

Yes

[vale pine]

we do, mostly for notes sharing

[hazy breach]

Mostly for the notes

[vale pine]

and the same applies to elvui etc

[keen dome]

I like it for the raid bar, too.

The readycheck and pull button, the markets, etc

[molten citrus]

yeah i remember using it for notes a lot back in sl