subtlety

[tribal blade]

do you see my mana

[spark tusk]

no

[tribal blade]

what am i supposed to do

i'm oom

[spark tusk]

I'm sorry

[tribal blade]

what is that

i don't see it on my bars

[spark tusk]

Sorry hidden tech you wouldn't get it

[tribal blade]

1 sec casting max rank blizzard

[hollow spear]

I hate it because I'm too bad to fit two sectecs into transmitter

Surely the new trinket will solve that problem for me

[paper siren]

For next patch is DS going to be the move for m+ or is it still going to be trickster? Because I love trickster compared to DS

[tepid trellis]

No one knows

[cold badge]

I do

[paper siren]

Sad );

[jaunty umbra]

he lies

[hexed sluice]

Sadly it had to go, cold blood was stronger on eggs, and I wasn't about to break my hands playing outlaw

[tepid trellis]

just crit?

skill issue honestly

[hazy breach]

On average supercharger should buff it roughly as much as cb does

But keyword being on average

[void hound]

you often times cant
on live at least

[lament rock]

how different are the numbers rn

im simple terms just run it

[worn cape]

Do we kill the adds on the first boss of Ara-Kara (on an 11) or do we focus boss? I feel like my Shuriken Toss and BP don't do much while trying to dance around the add that focuses me.

[vestal escarp]

Toss

[hazy breach]

Not much

[hazy breach]

The adds dont really do much damage, you dont really need to dance around it. Just stand inbetween it and the boss

And then you evis boss if trickster and bp if deathstalker

[worn cape]

idk, the one fixated on me munches me quite hard.

[vestal escarp]

Their dmg ramps

If it kills you it means they were alive too much

[lament rock]

oo ok then nevermind dont run it

[proven plover]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[crystal rain]

tier set still not working on ptr?

[vale pine]

soon™️, we hope

[barren wren]

🙏

[steel zinc]

Define working

Perma 10 stacks is good 😜

[hazy breach]

Its not perma 10 stacks

[steel zinc]

Wdym once I reached 10 stacks it didn't go away

[hazy breach]

Ye first week

Then they fixed that

Now it drops way more than it should

[crystal rain]

Oh, i thought there was a bug where the %dmg increase wasn't straight up working

[steel zinc]

ok so they overfixed it.

Insane indy company

[vale pine]

shadowed finisher and other secondary attacks also trigger the removal chance

[hazy breach]

Ye that too

The 2p doesnt buff shadowed finishers

The 4p doesnt buff any shadow damage whatsoever

[steel zinc]

Maybe worth pinning so devs can actually work on that?

[hazy breach]

They know

[steel zinc]

Do we still play outside of dance to gain stacks only snd and rupture as finishers?

[hazy breach]

Not sure

[steel zinc]

Like tldr bp and evis only in dance?

seems kinda wonky but different playstyle

[hazy breach]

Almost surely still bp

in aoe

Since you do like 4x as many finishers on aoe

[steel zinc]

true

I still think we kinda play around WS as sub since in dance we dont lose stacks

Does WS affect in any way darkest night or coup?

other then just removing it

[hazy breach]

Wdym

As in do they get buffed?

Should be yes

[steel zinc]

yeah are they getting buffed by ws

[hazy breach]

Yes, the phyiscal part

[vestal escarp]

WS not working with shadowed finishers

[alpine wraith]

yep

deleted cucked finishers

blizz going to go sepsis on its ass

[vale pine]

they can add sepsis to assassiantion if they want to add it back

[alpine wraith]

dont think anyone wants sepsis back

unless it comes with some of the strong anima powers/talents/conduits

[vale pine]

i think you don't want 2 spells doing similar things

so sepsis would compete with KB on sin

and it just does not fit on sub

[alpine wraith]

for sub it would have been fine if it procced premed but it did not

also back when blades affected builders only too it did okaish dmg

but they did well on kiling it

also KILL PV and lingering and make wm work at least with all builders

and change its name to buildermaster

rip old WM you were so busted you got nerfed 4 times

[vestal escarp]

😭😭

buff flag

[vale pine]

whats wrong with flag

[vestal escarp]

wek 😭

[alpine wraith]

it is actually blades that was weaker than expected even after buffs

now it got a bit of power from sec tech at least

[lilac stag]

buff flag

[vestal escarp]

so called "burst" spec

[hazy breach]

Idk what you mean, sub is clearly a burst spec

[lilac stag]

ST yes. Keys?

[vale pine]

not yet ^^

but maybe we are the burst spec in keys too at one point in the future

[vestal escarp]

😭

[hazy breach]

Yes?

You can be a burst spec without having by far the highest burst in the entire game

[lilac stag]

That’s the equivalent of “funnel”.

[hazy breach]

Getting outbursted by overtuned shaman specs when they have BL and PI doesnt make sub not a burst spec lmao

[lilac stag]

they don’t need either to burst in keys

In aoe sub isn’t impressive burst.

st / bosses sure

[hazy breach]

It does have good burst

[weary saffron]

the lack of specificity here isnt helpin anyone

what functional definiton are we lookin for here

[vestal escarp]

😭

[weary saffron]

like a +15 run into mists and do first pull and compare every single spec in the game's output over 30s?

[vestal escarp]

that but wake

[weary saffron]

or what scenario are you thinking

ok so you are talking specific target counts then

[vestal escarp]

no

[weary saffron]

those are both aoe pulls

what is your difference

do you only care about seconds 0->10? 0->30? 0->60000?

burst

[kind bluff]

Idk, my aoe burst is absurd so far, the problem is the pack after where I AFK for a few seconds.

[steel zinc]

Sub has insane burst in st and aoe just like fury it imo doesnt have good sustain aoe

[tribal blade]

sub at it's essence right now is doing your burst and then sending as much stuff between cds as possible without screwing up your next cd set

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade you around tomorrow to get the vault keys done? LFG was misery tonight.

[open swallow]

aka two shadow dances where you can kinda do some dmg thanks to sectech

[tribal blade]

yo! i will be yeah

[twilit phoenix]

Get me in on those

[tribal blade]

only if you're NA 😉

[twilit phoenix]

i am NA

[tribal blade]

if you need help you can add me at Prophet#13478 and i can help get that done for you

[twilit phoenix]

you are kind

and i bet pretty handsome too

thanks king ❤️

[tribal blade]

haha ty ❤️

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[foggy geode]

IS anyone able to say if this is still available from the love is in the air event shadowfang keep boss or not? I couldn't find any info on google https://www.wowhead.com/news/vile-fumigators-mask-available-for-transmog-in-dragonflight-patch-10-0-7-331471

[alpine wraith]

yea should be dropping

[tribal blade]

did we ever figure out if RS bug is fixed

[steel zinc]

It isn't

Just hope tier set actually works

Rest is not gonna happen

[fallow nimbus]

That rs fix talk was nonsense?

[alpine wraith]

it was fixed on ptr

[steel zinc]

Yeah ptr but live nah

Also stealth fixes are always fun

[alpine wraith]

yea man i sure love having to log in every 3 days to check all the bugs we have

like doing irl net test verifications

as if i dont do my job already

[vale pine]

i don't think we will see these bugfixes on live before the next patch

[fair anchor]

Add to the list checking if previously fixed bugs made it back

[alpine wraith]

nah that one is even spicier with the last oopsie they did

where they messed up versioning

and merged bad things into live

[vale pine]

you mean the return of the trickster bug ^^

[alpine wraith]

not the only one

[vale pine]

it was the one i felt everyone talking about it was the least informed

[alpine wraith]

thankfully there were bad hunter ones so they went fast into it

[upper rock]

hey guys, currently getting back into sub rogue, do i get it right that with flawless form eviscerate is now our aoe dmg spender? and not black powder?

[swift tinsel]

Up to 4 targets, you'll switch to BP once it gets higher

or if you have Coup to spend

[upper rock]

makes sense, thanks a lot haptics

[swift tinsel]

np np

[upper rock]

im a bit overwhelmed with sub atm haha coming back to my old rogue main after 3+ years of only tanking haha

[swift tinsel]

In AoE if you're in Shadow Dance and are talented into The Rotten make sure you strike -> sectech -> storm -> bp; storm will consume a charge of The Rotten per target hit so make sure its your second builder

it can definitely be pretty intimidating bc our kit isn't exactly the most intuitive

[upper rock]

oh well i always enjoyed sub and outlaw and since i dont like how the new outlaw turned out ill stick with sub, my main is still tank but feels like to play rogue again ^^

[swift tinsel]

sub has its quirks but trickster is super fun, once you get all of the kinks ironed out and your opener/burst windows down its a blast

[idle aurora]

I just started sub this season and I love it so much. Only have done trickster. My only wish would be having like 1 yard more attack range lol

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't be mad with slightly longer arms lol

[weary saffron]

rip long arms

[rocky ocean]

💀

[worn ivy]

Checking pins no changes ptr ok see you next week

[hazy breach]

Should be another ptr build in a day or two

[swift tinsel]

prayers for functioning 4pc

[hazy breach]

There was some bugfixes in last weeks, which we noticed later on in the week but ill mention them in the new pin once a new build pops up

[vale pine]

^ just need a bit of patience, lets hope for more changes in this weeks ptr version

[swift tinsel]

is the likely release date for 11.1 early March or closer to the end of Feb?

[vale pine]

no official date, people suspect 25th/26h because thats when events end

[worn ivy]

just swapped to assa for couple of keys

goddam man i was playing the game as hardmode

[idle aurora]

Man my heart wants me to macro mark into shadow dance but my head knows that’s a horrible idea

But it seems like when I do that I don’t overuse mark lol

[twilit phoenix]

Ptr is so scuffed rn

Would be crazy to rush the patch

[vale pine]

think thats a constant, game is rarely ready if content is released

[steel zinc]

Also then 1 week offseason

[vale pine]

possible

[pliant topaz]

Ive heard march 11th i think

[steel zinc]

So season start in march and 11.2 in September

[pliant topaz]

it was some "leak" but idk how reliable

[steel zinc]

Yeah either 1 or 2 weeks offseason

But still 1 month is a lot of time imo

[pliant topaz]

2 months ago season felt like it was dragging

idk why though

it hasnt been that long of a season but somehow it just feels really really bad

[steel zinc]

Agree has to do with also m+ being stale. Only thing that keeps me playing is mainraid and my alts doing 6/8 boosts

[pliant topaz]

I guess. it really only been like what 4 months for the tier? not very long. but man its boring

[steel zinc]

True but also prepatch

Also also the raid is kinda boring. That is obviously very subjective

[vale pine]

would be 2 weeks after the one above, i would not mind them taking a bit more time

[steel zinc]

They shouldn't rush imo. That patch is essentially there summer patch

It's atleast 5 months more 6 months since renown track is 20

[sonic quail]

will be becoming a chad and going sub next season after playing assa this season, very curious to see what the hell happens with the class in general considering the bugs and overall playability surrounding the tier set itself in PTR.

[pliant topaz]

wait for it to go live then we'll see

no point in guessing whats getting fixed and whats not getting fixed

[steel zinc]

You will play sub next season imo since you can control the rng

[swift tinsel]

I'll be a bit surprised if it goes live w/o changing to all finishers vs just evisc/sectech/bp

[vale pine]

^ someone of us will test it once we get a new ptr version

[steel zinc]

Tbf idm if it stays like this

[pliant topaz]

at this point, i would say wait for raid to be released LMFAO.

[steel zinc]

Tier set that actually changes our playstyle

[vale pine]

for a complete picture, for sure

[pliant topaz]

remember how heroic raid -> deathstalker mark behaved diffeerently? and was less aids?

[vale pine]

for incremental updates, probably ptr updates

[pliant topaz]

then week 2 -> nope, we switched it, now its aids

[vale pine]

i mean, it makes realistically no sense for people to freak out or ask before content goes live

yet many even of the newer folks now experienced the cycle when people start asking for the next patch

[steel zinc]

Best thing to do is just to report bugs on ptr

[vale pine]

even when there is no information about it out at all

There is still a information problem and question paradox

[pliant topaz]

personally i think its better use of my time to watch paint dry but thats subjective

[steel zinc]

I mean doing a key on ptr is more useful then live imo^^

Also who doesn't like watching the Mona Lisa dry out? 😜

[vale pine]

doing keys on live is more useful

[lilac stag]

Watching paint dry is way more productive.

[vestal escarp]

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bob-ross-bob-ross-inzaynia-twitch-gif-998068232686353232

[pliant topaz]

outlaw players when they get nerfed

[pliant topaz]

outlaw players when they get buffed

[pliant topaz]

outlaw players when they get quality of life

[pliant topaz]

outlaw players when they get litearlly any change regardless of the change

[pliant topaz]

outlaw players when they wake up in the morning

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-17729711691959966457

[uneven scarab]

[lilac stag]

Too bad slow mode isn’t permanent in outlaw when a change happens.

[pliant topaz]

that could be arranged. just need to bribe @teal coral with enough goth mommies inshallah

im on it chief

🫡

[vestal escarp]

ol got changes?

[vale pine]

not sure, i looked at the outlaw channel ~10 minutes ago and someone posted a apple pie recipe

[pliant topaz]

most sane individuals

surely

[keen dome]

It's always a good time for apple pie, tbh

[uneven scarab]

True

Apple pie bis

[keen dome]

Apple crumble pretty good too

[swift tinsel]

what the actual shit lol

[jagged heart]

they hate us cuz they aint us 🗣️

[lilac stag]

Nah. You’re just typically annoying af like havoc dh players.

[wraith sphinx]

Pot, kettle

[lilac stag]

Run Solo off… death threats Realz. gg

[swift tinsel]

should have known it was the pirates that ran Realz off

[jagged heart]

oh shit fr? I didnt know about the Realz death threat thing,

[lilac stag]

ayup

granted I know we get passionate in here, as well as meme the hell out of bugs and being ignored but we generally don’t need slowmode.

[swift tinsel]

idk if I've ever seen this channel in slowmode

score one for Dave

[uneven scarab]

We’re just better at hiding it

Hence subtlety

Nah but fr i dont think it was ever needed considering this channel has like max 20 active members

[swift tinsel]

between that and the stealth bugfixes

lmao true

[lilac stag]

It’s happened, but usually when either outlaw or felhammer spill over in here.

[swift tinsel]

ah that makes sense

[slate lantern]

i thought the death threat was felhammer not outlaw

[lilac stag]

Maybe both? It was def outlaw. He’s somewhat active still on FH.

I usually just poke my head in there to see if they’re having similar is development issues.

[vestal escarp]

funnel spec

[lilac stag]

buff flag

[twilit phoenix]

DS sub

i don't want it

[swift tinsel]

its fun on ptr watching DN time out between dances

can literally watch the talent die before my eyes

[uneven scarab]

“Actively avoid capstone in aoe”

Great design blizz

[lilac stag]

It’ll get fixed …

[swift tinsel]

removed

[uneven scarab]

What fix do you propose they’ll go with

[swift tinsel]

add bp, fix bug

[lilac stag]

Free level 80 reroll tokens

[uneven scarab]

[swift tinsel]

then we can at least get buffed Backstabs and plague damage hits

kekw

[lilac stag]

fr I should be excited about the RS fix. I’m just wondering why it took so fucking long and why it the tier so messed up. Actually making me hate logging onto my fav toon ain’t cool.

[swift tinsel]

played around with using supercharger on rupture and it feels omegabad

so that 2/2 perception doesn't feel so eh and to try and eke out some more cdr

its just all cursed between dances

I really want it tied to sod instead of dance

[sly shore]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vestal escarp]

😭😭 ong even fraudtal intent is stronger 😭😭

[uneven scarab]

Fraudtal intent

It is a fraud

[sly shore]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worn ivy]

does CB work on BP ?

[hazy breach]

yes

But sectech is gonna do more than BP anyway so

[sick jackal]

Darkest night duration increased to 60

So we can avoid it longer

[hazy breach]

But we dont want to avoid it

Or rather, once its procced you want to use it

I very much doubt its going to be worth to not use DN as deathstalker, even if it sometimes ends up removing the tier

Because you lose out on such a huge amount of hunt them down value by not having the mark up

And the mark obv does a fair bit of damage to

[sick jackal]

I was just referancing to this tbh i am not sure how ds is played

In aoe at least i play it in arenas

[hazy breach]

You ideally dont want to proc it to begin with in aoe

Use strike > bp/sectech > storm > bp > strike another target to reset your marks to 3 and proc clear the witnesses

[sick jackal]

Oh that much more shit ngl

If we go ds and this stays like it i might actually take a break

[hazy breach]

They could just fix the mark bug thats weve been complaining about since around when mythic nerubar was released

And then we could just ignore DN while its up

But now the mark doesnt work if DN is up

so

[sick jackal]

Can we remake a new rogue and never learn darkest night?

[hazy breach]

Well then youre griefing your ST

So not worth

[vestal escarp]

it's a feature at this point

[fallow nimbus]

Just crit, use cb for bp

[naive token]

I haven't played sub since dragonflight, do we no longer use backstab inside of Shadow Dance because of The Rotten?

[pliant topaz]

we do not but the reason isnt rotten. just that backstab does 0 dam, not worth the dm stack it gives

though (that might change with gb and tier next patch, we'll see)

[naive token]

I know I always used to do backstab first global inside of SD, its breaking my muscle memory lol

[pliant topaz]

yeah, shadowstrike got a big big buff to it now, so its a lot better

[twilit phoenix]

dropping backstab in dance is kind of a W change

shit felt so clunky

[supple pawn]

One of my online friends dmed me and called me a tin smelter should I be worried

[tribal blade]

i could forsee it being a thing with the amount of dmg being shoved into dance and the shadow amp

[pliant topaz]

yeah that was my thought process too

almost 100% worth during blades atleast

gb that is not bs

[haughty mural]

wait wait - is this real ? or bait ?
what did i miss

[fallow nimbus]

On ptr

If it will make it to live stands in the stars

We got no ptr notes but the bugfix parts are huge. Rs, sectec with blades

[tribal blade]

it's for sure a lot less insulting than the few lines of dev notes they gave us

i'd still like to see sub get some love with some sexy spell/talent changes, but this is a lot better than nothing

[haughty mural]

Sectec with blades i knew but that PLUS rs is huge

[vale pine]

ptr has rs fixed apperently

[fierce minnow]

laaaarge

[vale pine]

it is a nice qol

[fierce minnow]

is nimble flurry range still smaller than blade flurry?

[keen verge]

Out of the 3 rogue specs, how would you classify Subtley in terms of difficulty to perform well with?

[vale pine]

likely

[alpine wraith]

sub can be the hardest if you cant plan things around

but after getting to know how it works it is not super challenging

[fierce minnow]

middleground between assassination (easiest) and outlaw (hardest)

[keen verge]

Ah okey! Thanks for the answers ❤️

[fierce minnow]

its like assassination you have be awake all the time but its slow and you have alot of time to react, outlaw you have to be hyperawake all the time and its blazing fast

sub is like you have to be awake for 33% of the time and nail the burst and then you can go chill and watch your timer until its go time again. totally different pacing

[hybrid prism]

in what world is outlaw the hardest lmao

sub is def the hardest and if you don't do it correctly you are actually useless

[keen dome]

They're all the hardest 'cos it's a subjective thing, and different people will struggle with different things, imo.

[hybrid prism]

ye true

[keen dome]

Each requires learning different rules, reactions, behaviours and knowledge of the content and game.

[hybrid prism]

but picking up one of the specs and doing well, at least my opinion is sub being the hardest

[vale pine]

let people have their opinion, everyone will always argue for their spec to be the hardest

[hybrid prism]

it's miiiiiiine

[vale pine]

even if difficultly is not something you want usually

[keen dome]

Yeee

[vale pine]

e.g. if you look back at 10.2

[hybrid prism]

honestly i think thats why we are one of the top 3 least played classes

[vale pine]

i did basically ask realz to make the spec easier, not harder because i thought the patch would complicate things too much....

[hybrid prism]

i think all of the specs are harder than every other spec in the game lol

the spec is so good right now

i would be sad if they changed anything

bp spam in aoe could be diff i guess

but i love it

[keen dome]

Once you learn the rules of Sub and get into the flow, it's a lovely time just planning it all out and glowing purple to do big dam

[tulip token]

I have been loving sub too. Funny how BP can be your highest damage even on trickster xD

Yeah it has been stupid fun

From a 13 SV I did today. (Super fun key with the way the tank pulled)

[fierce minnow]

just my experience from guildies trying to alt a rogue, after some outlaw coaching they be like "wtf" and then they play assassination.

sub is complicated on the surface but once you got some basic muscle memory its alot easier to do reasonably well with than outlaw imo.

[hybrid prism]

tru

[fierce minnow]

outlaw is shallow on the surface but demanding to play at a high level

[keen verge]

What streamers would u recommend for sub content?

[vale pine]

don't think there is a streamer who plays subtlety regularely

[fierce minnow]

was gonna say that, not many sub only streamers that come to mind

[keen verge]

Oh rip x)

[fierce minnow]

kush plays sub if its good, i think it doesnt get much better than this guy if you can stand his humor

[vale pine]

the spec is literally the least played dps in the entire game, and assassinations for at least 2 seasons now makes it very hard to justify playing anything else due to its power level

for context, rogue players will most of the time play whats best of the 3 specs

[fierce minnow]

even if assassination is a few percent points behind sub its still gonna be the main pick for 90% of rogues due to its reliability

outlaw in raid is a menace only the absolute die hards stick to

[vale pine]

I think it rly just comes down to design and tuning

[haughty mural]

im gonna bat

[fierce minnow]

outlaw has been tuned well for a long time now

[vale pine]

e.g. 10.2 sub had abyssal play rates even tho it was the best spec of rogue

[haughty mural]

if they do more stealth bugfixes

[vale pine]

simply because of how much unnessecery complexity the dev team decided to add in the patch

people don't want to do no damage unless they play perfect

[hybrid prism]

make gloomblade baseline, put dark brew in its spot, give us new talent where dark brew is. fix bugs. boom fixed

[fierce minnow]

but going into a tier saying "i am gonna one trick outlaw" is questionable, either you get screwed over by uptime or your weapons are needed elsewhere and the daggers are left unused

[vale pine]

especially if playing perfect requires you to study extrernal ressources for cooldown managament

the last patch made some changes to remove some complexity, sub is now somewhat more intuitive

[fierce minnow]

thats what i meant, people gravitate to the "ol reliable" if its reasonable

[vale pine]

still very difficult to maximize to its full potential, probably the hardest dps to do so in game

[leaden prairie]

i hope one day outlaw can just use daggers

i swear its raid viability would skyrocket

just from that

[fierce minnow]

i am with you mate

[hybrid prism]

when it changed from combat to outlaw i lost all interest in the spec. I wanna be a rogue not a pirate. If you want a pirate, make a pirate class

[leaden prairie]

Ok

[tulip token]

Arguably they did

[fierce minnow]

the pirate theme is rather subtle idk

[tulip token]

It is just a rogue pirate xD

[alpine wraith]

they killed the pirate theme

[vale pine]

I don't think sin is more or less reliable, it is just easier to play and was for a long time the only option tuned competitively in raid (2 xpacs) which created a enviroment where everyone would default to it.

[fierce minnow]

its more of a brawler type of spec

[hybrid prism]

the class fantasy and spec fantasy of sub is just so perfect rn imo. Hope they keep it. but really, I wanna play dark brew and i want gloomblade all the time. make it happen

[keen dome]

only if Sub can just fist weapons / swords in exchange

[vale pine]

i would not mind being able to use any one hand weapon in offhand

[keen dome]

Yeah, that'd be so nice.

It'd open up a lot of options, and potentially cantrip weapons

[fierce minnow]

i mean you could argue why that is the case or that it is the case because assassination is the way it is. its like the survivorship bias, what you can see in nature is what prevailed.

and if you see more assassination and less sub its because nature has done what nature does

[vale pine]

just to be clear, i think the amount of time in wow history you did hear
"Stay away from subtlety for X reason"
created a permanent problem where it is now very hard to convince people to play it.
And DF did just repeat history in 10.2 to add to the pile.

[fierce minnow]

dgmw i love sub, i love assassination, and i hate/love outlaw

[vale pine]

perception is hard to change, and i don't think we will see effort put into giving a lot of attention to the spec like they did with others like e.g. shadow priest to change this perception.

[fierce minnow]

but if i had to pick a spec absolutely blind to tuning or knowledge of raid mechanics in 11.1 i would 100% pick assassination just because i expect it to work regardless

[craggy badger]

To add my two cents i'm wondering about learning sub, assa maintenance gameplay is so boring to me

I used to play outlaw but apparently the spec is in the gutter right now

[vale pine]

all 3 rogue specs are good right now

[tulip token]

Yeah they are literally all fine

[vale pine]

assassiantion just since beta noticable better than the other 2 in toolkit

which is kinda what you are saying

assassiantion is reliable because it is less likely to stay in a dissadvanterouse position

but thats just up to the dev team, history just created this perception

[fierce minnow]

outlaw is on top of the sim dps

like literally on top

[steel zinc]

Play w/e spec you enjoy gameplaywise the most

[vale pine]

Outlaw has the problem of damage profile

it does not burst

[steel zinc]

Outlaw sim is omega bait in st. Might aswell roll your dps

Also any downtime on outlaw its over

[fierce minnow]

my point exactly

[vale pine]

outlaw sim is not bait, but you rarely face a high uptime boss

[tulip token]

I think a good reason sin is so popular is because while it is "punishing" to not do the rotation properly. You can literally just put your bleeds and stuff out and see good damage pack to pack. So it is in a way less punishing then fucking all of your cds up on sub or not understanding how to see numbers on outlaw

[steel zinc]

The range of dps while playing perfect is double of sub as sin

Between top and worst outlaw sim is like 800k

[tulip token]

So the casual player and people running low keys just get to put bleeds out and watch Sudden Demise go crazy. Even if they have no idea what is going on

[vale pine]

one of the reasons its good is that it does absurd dps in aoe compared to most other specs in the game since beta

numbers are what drives people to or away from something

it was similar in DF, but DF had tuning passes to regulate power level more

consequence was sub was good in 2 tiers you would else just see the same profile we see this xpac

as much as anyone likes to play whatever they like, we are all very dependent on devs to allow specs to compete

[tulip token]

Oh absolutely

[vale pine]

and TWW does put more effort into making whats popular better, rather than fixing other things

[steel zinc]

Still sub and sin are fine rn imo

[vale pine]

not much we can do, sub is not in a bad spot

[tulip token]

Agreed. I wish more people liked it and played it but at the same time I like being the underdog or a spec people don't expect to go crazy. It sucks trying to get into keys sometimes but I enjoy the banter and seeing people realize after the key that sub is doing fine.

[vale pine]

there are enough people who love or like sub, but they know that they are better off playing sin

It is just, there is no reason to play sub if assassiantion is better tuned

this is a statement made in Legion, you see it still holding up 8+ years later

[tulip token]

Yeah its sad but true

[void hound]

real and true

[tulip token]

Can't even try to argue a util difference cause sin also has ironwire. I think the only things I like about sub is that it feels tankier because of the vers and the 1hr tricks can be nice if a tank falls over and you want to save a pull. But those aren't things that a top player is ever going to care about and are kinda niche

[void hound]

when sub and sin do the same damage, its still highly advantageous to play sin

sub needs to do notably more damage to offset the cost in mental stack

[vale pine]

and if there is not equal effort put into specs and good tuning, we won't see this statement every change

TWW feels a lot more like they did not even try and rather just made assassiantion good

[void hound]

assa just got everything lol

[alpine wraith]

didnt forget to nerf outlaw just in case too

in case you forgot

[vale pine]

well there are small diffrences

but assassiantion def. got a lot more attention and more thought out design decisions

a good example is the first dance requirements

which for no good reason add a extra timer to "out of combat" requirements

while it might be still good in reality

it was the last thing the dev team decided to change

so this is the "state of the art talent design" for the spec

[haughty mural]

would it be busted if it was available after every pack ?

[vale pine]

and it makes the spec a lot harder to judge

[haughty mural]

i dont think so

[vale pine]

if you read above about unessecery complexity, this talent showcases it

[void hound]

yeah
sub doesnt need to be accessable or noob friendly
it just needs to get rid of all the cringe unintuitive stuff
"shadow blades buffs your finisher"
"but not your sectec cause its bugged, should have read obscure discord chats!"

[vale pine]

let me explain why

getting out of combat, so the typical restealth is somewhat intuitive

and even then, you saw other specs write paragraphs of text how restealths are the worse thing ever because you can't do so reliably

somehow the design decision was to add a timer on top of it

means any player who wants to have a rough idea of the power level

does not only need to know the restealths, which was at least stated by the other 2 specs to be not reliable

you would need to know when you get the extra downtime

and judge wether it is reasonable to pick over other options

^ yet in reality it is most of the time "just pick it"

because the competiting talents are all not good

[haughty mural]

yea true

[mint swift]

I wonder how black powder tastes

[barren wolf]

woah assa received everything that it needs to be a good spec and its tuned high

[void hound]

purple

[barren wolf]

aoe tools, prio dmg, reduced ramp up, burst

[vale pine]

There is a certain irony that assassiantion now does funnel way more efficient than sub

[barren wolf]

well assa has always done priority damage

it a pack

since it did envenom as its finisher

now it just so happens that envenom is aoe

[vale pine]

assassiantions prio was noticably worse tho

now its noticably better without similar trade offs

[void hound]

assa prio damage is nuts

cause its a feedback loop

more FoK targets = more envenoms
more envenms = more AoE
more AOE = more singular focus

[mint swift]

Just like

Maybe like
Fuck whats the name of the sweet

Starts with an s

I think

powedery

[barren wolf]

thats not a feedback loop

what

[vale pine]

liquorice

[hazy breach]

more envenoms = more marks = more darkest nights

[mint swift]

That doens't start with an s tho

[void hound]

huh?

everything is feeding into each other sorta, no?

[barren wolf]

is it a loop though

[mint swift]

SHERBET

That

[vale pine]

kind of

more energy = more finisher too

[void hound]

well yeah, cause more aoe targets = more ST (envenom
more envenom = more AOE
more AOE = more ST

[barren wolf]

well yeah if you change it and add more onto it

but what you typed isnt

[void hound]

the feedback is AOE and ST feeding each other

[mint swift]

So yea, if you take a sack of black powder and just

pour some into your mouth

i think it would have maybe a mix of liqurice (as Fuu said) but mainly sherbet

[void hound]

this is also big

[barren wolf]

if it makes yall feel better, i dont like assa rn

[mint swift]

Why :O

[barren wolf]

caustic, ic, mark, st dam not going into any detail

[hazy breach]

Bleeds not doing any damage is stinky

[void hound]

bro just wants to press snd and auto attack 😔

[hazy breach]

I want the demisemaxxing builds to be the best

[barren wolf]

yea thats what i said

[void hound]

thats giga cringe

[mint swift]

It's caustic splatter sim

You put bleeds on for the buffs they give and what they do

I think

[lilac stag]

It can do everything but play like an actual dot spec where you need to actually use more than a single cell to think about bleed management

[mint swift]

so everything but their damage

Minus CT which can do nice

[barren wolf]

for the 1 pull every 2 minutes where mobs live more than 40 seconds, you have vanish to reapply bleeds instanly

[hazy breach]

Like this bro, fuck all the green stuff just pure demisemaxxing

[lilac stag]

They essentially made it sub (pump evicrrates) but slowed down.

Idk anyone that enjoys assa that wanted sub 2.0

[void hound]

dont forget auto attacks doing sizable damage lol

[alpine wraith]

they got the same as feral treatment

[mint swift]

I find it fun atm at least tbh

[alpine wraith]

if you can bleed 3 targets at a tiome

[barren wolf]

without being able to swap targets

[alpine wraith]

they nerf the fuck out of them

[barren wolf]

thanks

[lilac stag]

Blame outlaw. Dance removed from class tree

[mint swift]

Id try this if it did damage D:

[barren wolf]

it does do dmg

[mint swift]

But like, compared to the main build

ST damage doesn't seem good tho

[lilac stag]

I don’t recall a time where the 3 specs were numerically so good, but gameplay was so off putting to players that have been around rogue for a good bit.

and looks like it’s worse with upcoming tier

[vale pine]

I don't know, i think subtlety is rotational good

can't say much for assassiantion because i never rly got excited about its rotation

[mint swift]

Tbh

[vale pine]

and outlaw is still high apm

[mint swift]

idk if im playing sub right but it is fun

I just wish the downtime wasnt as bad
But that's literally how sub works

[vale pine]

i think sub has many things which could be more intuitive

[lilac stag]

Revisit again once you’re actively avoiding using finishers out of dance

[vale pine]

and ofc bugs, but some of them get adressed

[barren wolf]

you have ball scratching in sub rotation, between dances. its the hidden dance

[lilac stag]

Or striking 3 targets in aoe

[mint swift]

It is fun going nuts in SD

[lilac stag]

or DS is so numerically far ahead trickster is not played

[mint swift]

spamming SSs and BPs and Evics

[mint swift]

I mean

People hate DS right

[lilac stag]

I will not speak for all, but yes I hate it

[barren wolf]

sub 🤝 assa
hating DS

[lilac stag]

[hazy breach]

On assa it fits better, just losing the mark is very annoying

On sub it just feels awkward and the bug screws over your rotation

But you dont lose the mark atleast

[mint swift]

I mean

I like DS on assa

[void hound]

it was fun in 10.2

now its quite boring

[vale pine]

you have most of the same complexities in this patch

i think dust had some rly cool use cases

[tribal blade]

i think one of the main ways i would want to both simplify and fix sub would be to make dance a flat cd unaffected by cdr

and just have sectec as the only cd with cdr, so you can kind of anchor your rotation around it

[hazy breach]

And/or make sectech only usable in stealth/dance

[tribal blade]

i had that idea too, would work really well imo on a thematic level too

since it's "secret"

[vale pine]

i did like the idea of making secret cd reset with dance or sysmbols

[tribal blade]

that could be cool too, kind of like what they did with BtE on outlaw

our sectec damage would be going through the roof

[leaden prairie]

But then it does less damage

[fierce minnow]

i mean bte is kinda different since you want to send it for the buff aswell, sectec doesnt buff

[tribal blade]

yeah it would have to huh

[leaden prairie]

I thought you guys wanted one big hit

Not multiple small

[fierce minnow]

and you would play around that in way of sending sectec before dance, to reset it and send it again

further complicating stuff

not a fan of that idea

[tribal blade]

wouldn't it actually just simplify because you wouldn't never worry about when to press sectec in that case

[fierce minnow]

yes you would

[tribal blade]

you could literally press it on cd and it'd be fine

[fierce minnow]

if you have 5 seconds left on sectec cd before going into dance

[tribal blade]

ah ok i see where you're going

[fierce minnow]

you could argue that you wait for it or not

[tribal blade]

yes good point

[leaden prairie]

Well since dance is on a charge

[fierce minnow]

and you only dance when sectec just got on cd

[leaden prairie]

You would probably always wait

[tribal blade]

it does enough damage to warrant waiting probably

[fierce minnow]

you solve an issue by introducing a new issue

[leaden prairie]

[fierce minnow]

sub works pretty fine the way it does rn, i´d rather have more flurry range

and lower energy cost on storm

[tribal blade]

yeah revert storm energy back to 35

45 is just ridiculous

we have 1/3rd of the energy pool as sin and our aoe builder costs 5 more energy

[fierce minnow]

just skill vigor

[tribal blade]

if only we could

[fierce minnow]

just do it, dont let your dreams be dreams

[tribal blade]

you know actually by S3 when there's enough stats to go around and we can get more crit

could possibly be worth going vigor

over CB

actually nah lethality is kinda good with our current set up

[fierce minnow]

lethality too good

just have 50% haste for more energy

damn friction

[alpine wraith]

we dont need the energy tbh

[tribal blade]

i just want a bit more energy, like an extra 25-50 would be hot

[alpine wraith]

what we could use is a bit stronger aoe or better ways to get ruptures out they do a lot of dmg

[tribal blade]

it feels like sub is kind of missing something in aoe

feels like we're missing a spell

if that makes sense

[alpine wraith]

well what changed was dance cdr

got nuked

so we are outside of it quite often

[tribal blade]

maybe since i started playing sin sub's aoe feels overly simple in our sources of damage

something to help get ruptures out faster could help fix that

[alpine wraith]

yea makes you think

unnerfed replicating would have been the best

instead of this weird thing we have now

or maybe just have both

and kill shitty useless talents like PV or lingering

or make it be there instead of silent storm

so we have a clear AoE branch

[barren wolf]

ok but you say you want an aoe branch until you have to take it in m+ and it kills your st

[tribal blade]

yeah PV has got to go

[alpine wraith]

all of sub st comes from the kinda last talents so it is had to kill it

our mid talents are that weak

even the "aoe" thing in finality and db is so weak

it loses to 1 extra symbols

and some % dmg and some crits on builders

because inev does not even work in aoe that well and wm either

[barren wolf]

your spec sucks

[alpine wraith]

the new DS tech is kinda funny

im going to drop the nuke 1 week before patch and see how people react

[alpine wraith]

i wonder if they fix the mark bug

making us be able to ignore DN in aoe without doing sorcery

[lilac stag]

Rogue hero talents suck.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/fake-laugh-gif-26288312

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/nose-boop-brianna-hildebrand-negasonic-teenage-warhead-deadpool-deadpool2-gif-17343383786180988867

[fierce minnow]

this

trickster sub is ok tho

the others can fuck off

[lilac stag]

gameplay wise sure (minus the charge). Visually it’s awful. Animations don’t work. Stuck with a utility knife over your head. Garbage. Absolute garbage.

[fair anchor]

Hey I have this situation with trickster when i have 4 coup stacks, and i'm about to send dance and sectec, and my brain goes "use sectec first so you can get the extra CDR from coup for sectec CD"

[fierce minnow]

charge is gone i think

[fair anchor]

But then i waste an automatic unseen blade hit from disorienting strike

[lilac stag]

It is soon

[fair anchor]

I dont know if that is a smart decision or not

[barren wolf]

other people can see which target is marked by the DS rogue so thats neat

i did notice it once from another rogue

note:once

[fierce minnow]

much cooler than a frostfire mage dropping huge blue and red meteors on your pack

[barren wolf]

ehm err grragrh ummmmmmmmm no comment

what if i flip a coin

is that cooler

[fierce minnow]

how about a spellfire phoenix at your command?

[lilac stag]

just send sectech as soon as it's up, as long as it's first or second in dance/sod. coup just needs a fazed target.

[median nacelle]

thats how i do it too, i think its worth in m+ atleast

feels more adapt friendly

[fair anchor]

Cheers noted, idk i felt like wasting one or the other, guess i should try to enter dance with 3 coup stacks if possible

[haughty mural]

if possible

[median nacelle]

i generally dont overthink that but ya

[haughty mural]

dont overthink tho

[fair anchor]

Gotcha thanks

[weary kite]

sec trch empowers the coup so u do way more damage anyways

read the tier set

[fair anchor]

True

But then coup empowers sectec too ^^

It is a bit bad when you dont get coup in between the 2 sectecs in flag

[hazy breach]

Outside of your flag you can use them in any order, it doesnt really matter

In your flag+blades window you really want the cdr on sectech, so its better to sectech before

[tribal blade]

cycling through sectecs fast has a ripple effect on the entire rotation

fuck up cdr and it's very noticable (aka playing DS)

[vale pine]

cooldown management is def. not trivial

[vestal escarp]

Sometimes as ds you have to delay dances by quite a bit to line up sectech

[wheat crypt]

I cant read stuff anygood youtuber that explain assa or sub?

For rotation and cd breakdown

[vale pine]

think hachadino and eleem have some youtube videos for sub, personally don't follow youtube enough tho

[ancient raven]

Eleem has a good video on sub burst. There’s a bunch of assa videos from like shindigg or whyspr

[drowsy moon]

its actually rather straight forward for sin

compared to other class/ specs

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[bright elk]

this isnt updated for season 2 right? nvm i see the sims are using s1 gear

[lucid beacon]

Any notable changes to sub for next patch?

Or are we down to 100 player count

[hazy breach]

Literally nothing besides a few bug fixes

[vale pine]

In short:```ansi
+ RS bugfix

• Stronger Tier set (once bugs are fixed)
  - Worse 90-second Trinket

[lucid beacon]

I love my fellow 50 sub players

[spark tusk]

But is the trinket really worse if it's not transmitter?

[hazy breach]

Truetrue

[vale pine]

True

[spark tusk]

Had my transmitter orb spawn and immediately float through a wall in m+ the other night

slammed my desk

[vale pine]

transmitter in the underwater delve

when you can't pick up the orb

[spark tusk]

I miss branch floaty boys

[vale pine]

blizz missed an oppotunity

to add another simon says trinket

[crystal bone]

[spark tusk]

https://media.tenor.com/_pz48ESVe4cAAAAi/glorp-glorpnotl.gif

[keen dome]

I second missing floaty branch

Even if on Smolderon it sometimes got a bit comedic

[lilac stag]

why are you padding the numbers?

[vestal escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-glorpshit-mad-gif-12826934952903770254

[shy ermine]

I’m so happy the RS bug is fixed

Half of my messages in this discord are complaining about it

[alpine wraith]

yea praise

[solemn creek]

Transmitter going afloat on siege of boralus last boss.. or the step in circle just not possible

[hazy breach]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[vestal escarp]

11.2

[median nacelle]

whats the trinket name?

[alpine wraith]

house of cards

or you can call him ricardo too

[vale pine]

House of Cards

the dissapointing thing is

the icon of the trinket

is in fact

not a house of cards

[alpine wraith]

yea RUINED

for the whole tier

[slate lantern]

its a house of cards thats falling

[vale pine]

the trinket

a card house

[swift tinsel]

just like their tooltips, blizz icons misleading

[slate lantern]

could be a bottom view from the side

[jovial prairie]

balatro reference actually

[hybrid prism]

Is that our trinket for next tier? I haven’t looked at any ptr stuff

[fallow nimbus]

Watch them come up the most hideous trinket for the last tier but everyone has to play it

[hybrid prism]

As long as I don’t have to do dumbass transmitter bs. Lol. I did a key the other day for fun without it and I forgot how much simpler everything is without it haha

[swift tinsel]

Ptr has been nice bc I haven't heard "Orb" or "3" in weeks

[upper rock]

hey guys ,whats stuff we should track? i feel like sub is a bit overwhelming haha

[swift tinsel]

SoD/Dance charges

flag/blades/sectech cd

escalating blade/coup, flawless form

[alpine wraith]

dont worry transmitter will come with vengeance in s4

[fallow nimbus]

"Collect orb or stand in circle" "jump three times"

[barren wren]

Didn’t they say that s4 won’t be a thing anymore ?

[vale pine]

the xpac will likely just have 3 tiers and then we start over again with a new xpac

I assume we xpacs will stay similar to how this one was handled so 90$ early access option and a regular priced option

[upper rock]

is there like a good wa with all buffs we want to see?

[vale pine]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vale pine]

pick your poison

le typically has a lot of small tweaks

[sick jackal]

Ill be real i loved early access cuz the release was much smoother

[vale pine]

I am in a love-hate relation with it

It splits the community in people who have no problem spending the extra 30$+ and these who can't

and like this xpac gives benefits to people signing up earlier

but it spreads out the load, means servers are more stable

[edgy zenith]

i actually am just totally in favor for it. makes launch WAY more stable, generates Blizz more revenue (which hopefully means better game), and doesn't provide any meaningful power level difference between early access and regular people. if you're a streamer, I would be pissed though.

i bought early access this expansion, and will not be buying it next expansion

[barren wren]

^

[warm marlin]

It was worth it purely for the brokie memes and the slaughter on the beach in warmode of people who bought it punching down

[barren wren]

Same

The only reason I bought it was because of my boys I played with, but 3 days not worth it for 30$. If it helps servers I’m not against it

Can’t wait for sub rework into ninja range spec with shurikens in Midnight

🗿

[hybrid prism]

Can confirm these WA’s are bomb. Love them

[vale pine]

my gf logged into my account and upgrade it for me XD

she wanted to play together early

[barren wren]

W

[vale pine]

not sure, i wanted to not play EA out of principle

but well

[barren wren]

I think many ppl won’t buy it next expansion

All ppl did was farming rare mounts whole day or just goofing around

[vale pine]

The diffrence was how fast you could level

and this was a big diffrence in general, setting players who did not buy with multiple characters back quite a bit

probably not much of a diffrence for the average player

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade warrior was a hole. Hunter got tier legs.

[edgy zenith]

yeah, I imagine people with alts loved EA. but I had 1 character all expansion so far. completely worthless for me lmao

[vale pine]

The leveling experience was way nice in EA, the full release had some problems

still does not matter much

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sick jackal]

does this mean my kill got invalided?

[hollow snow]

Nah 10 externals is normal

For a 3 min fight that's avg

[bleak wind]

that would be the number of kills, not externals

[hollow snow]

I don't get it then

What about it is invalidating

If not for externals/ring shenanigans

[bleak wind]

don't think you can tell just from that image

[wheat crypt]

Yeah but i somtimes find myself in situations where i have no emergy to envenom or i go to kingsban and again no energy to stack it quick

But no problem in aoe

F sorry for interrupting the sub chat with assa

[uneven scarab]

thats the design of sin in single target

gotta play for envenum uptime rather than spamming it

[sick jackal]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TaKkbj8GhN7rDzH1?fight=31&type=damage-done

this is the logs

maybe add damage?

i got like 400k on add damage

this was before rings btw

[bleak wind]

don't see anything that would make it invalid, probably something with the log that was uploaded, would try to re-export it in that case but not sure if it will do anything now since its a few patches old now

[edgy zenith]

wait do you not just spam Envenom bc of twist teh knife?

i legit have never like pooled energy for enveonm uptime once this tier

actually that's not true, when KB is about to be up I'll hold the envenom a little bit to make sure it;s up before I use KB

so I guess ye

[plush roost]

With current sin raid build you're just zugzug except in rare moments of bad rng lol

[edgy zenith]

ye that sounds right

twist the knife goated

[plush roost]

Ttk+dashing+blindside infinity energy

[edgy zenith]

don't know what dashing is, but bold of you to assume I get blindside procs

[plush roost]

1 energy every poison crit

[edgy zenith]

ahh

i wonder how much better Sin feels with good stat prio

fucking full mast/vers on Sin, sometimes I wanna die

wonder if that gets fixed with good stats

or if that's just how Sin be

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter

[edgy zenith]

doesn't feel any different?

[hazy breach]

Not that much no

[edgy zenith]

like numbers wise, stats never fucking matter really

but feel changes sometimes

[bleak wind]

you can definitely feel different stats though, having more crit is very noticeable

[uneven scarab]

ye thats pretty much it

outside of that its whatever

[vestal escarp]

[vale pine]

more bugfixes, nice

[keen dome]

Love to see some fixes.

They're building to the big notes, though. They've just gotta get the fixes in first.

[vestal escarp]

Was this a thing?

[hazy breach]

Not entirely sure what that means, but sure

Only thing i know it didnt work with was sectech, so maybe thats fixed

Possible that it just goes whack and stops working at 100% efficiency with tons of target and thats what theyre fixing, idk though

[vestal escarp]

I think it's code talk for the stuff that got actually fixed

[ember mural]

!fuu

[lilac stag]

Assa thing more so

Discord done shitting itself

[patent crystal]

not a bad start

[sly shore]

you ever get both mounts

from one chest

Cos apparently I do

[keen dome]

What the heck

[lilac stag]

Nice

[keen dome]

Quick, do the lottery. You've got some luck rolling

[worn cape]

Seems to be quite common. I saw quite a few reddit posts with this today.

[sly shore]

the sweeper is like 1/10

1/100*

[hoary dawn]

they fixed the DDOS

[barren wren]

do you guys think our trinkets will be eye of kezan and house of cards ?

[hazy breach]

If they do no tuning ye

[steel zinc]

yes

[hazy breach]

But house is prob staying either way

[swift tinsel]

eye might lose value on shorter fights

[steel zinc]

but also transmitter all the way until I guess mythic prog

[swift tinsel]

but depends

[hazy breach]

Ye transmitter for a while

[steel zinc]

If they dont nerf transmitter house of cards prob is equal to its HC maxed out version and only really good mythic raid +

[swift tinsel]

I'll be surprised if there's no s1 trinket tuning going into s2

[vale pine]

congrats

[barren wren]

I have mythic, so I'm potentially stuck with it until mythic prog

[steel zinc]

I dont think so tbh. Kinda would indirectly nerf nearly every caster and every transmitter user

[barren wren]

I was hoping to get rid of trasmitter as soon as I can

[steel zinc]

If they nerf spymaster and transmitter thats like 10% raid dps loss depending on tuning

[barren wren]

I have ptsd now from playing branch>transmitter

[steel zinc]

idk branch was worse then transmitter

[swift tinsel]

they do this very often

[steel zinc]

transmitter is fine imo

[barren wren]

well it's better

but still

[steel zinc]

yeah but would just flat out nerf all classes nerfing those two trinkets

idk will see

[molten citrus]

[latent finch]

!nw

[wicked jolt]

The breath/frontal from the first boss in Necrotic Wake is an attack, not a spell.

In order to immune the the breath, you must be in the first second of cloak of shadows (“a moment of magic immunity”). After the first second of cloak of shadows has elapsed, the attack will hit you and no longer be immuned.
Alternatively you can use evasion to dodge the breath.

[steel zinc]

Cool they broke again sub tier set

perma 10 stacks

[spice monolith]

GZZZZ

[hazy breach]

I mean the trinkets themselves are worth like 11% dps compared to no trinket at all, so a 10% nerf to the active would at most be like a 1% raidwide dps nerf, assuming all of your dps was using it

And ye it would nerf the classes using it, but it doesnt really matter

[steel zinc]

talking spymaster and transmitter

[hazy breach]

Yes so am i

[tropic nimbus]

if they fixed tier would it be im the notes?

[steel zinc]

they bugged it like it was 2 weeks ago

now we have perma 10 stacks again

just t ested it

[lilac stag]

[leaden prairie]

no

[vale pine]

not necessary, most bugfixes don't make it to patch notes

[leaden prairie]

they fix shit all the time

and its just on us

to test everysingle bug in the game

every week

[lilac stag]

They fixed DS and published it in the notes.

[wind canopy]

If you don't say it in the patch notes, the majority of people won't know they existed...

[lunar rain]

are you guys raiding as trickster or deathstalker?

Just got back into sub

[foggy geode]

trickster cleave, DS ST.

[lunar rain]

i see, thanks

[vestal escarp]

Some pr move to not put there year old bugs

[elfin hound]

finally big changes

[swift tinsel]

coup has melee-range animation now, we ballin

confirmed no resets

[vestal escarp]

Pog? Can we keep it mom?

[swift tinsel]

No

will be gone with next build

No fun allowed

[sick jackal]

Isnt it just singular focus

[lilac stag]

[lilac stag]

Trickster for everything if you don’t want to hate yourself playing DS

They’re close enough it doesn’t matter.

[vague oar]

until you kill yourself with coup

then you hate yourself no matter what

[swift tinsel]

there's no charge anymore

[vague oar]

i thought that wasn't getting removed till 11.1

[hazy breach]

Correct, not until 11.1

[wind canopy]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

But thats soon

[swift tinsel]

Reset is funky, went from never over 10mins to ~normal

[steel zinc]

Idk ptr tier set has now old bug of never going below 10 stacks

I bet has to do with coup

[swift tinsel]

Mine is resetting

[steel zinc]

Mine didn't

Like never once I reached 10

Even didn't Dance

Maybe I hit jackpot guys

New ability

🤣

[hazy breach]

It doesnt though

[steel zinc]

I'll make a video then when I am at the pc

[swift tinsel]

shadow amp appears to be broken still

[steel zinc]

Even took off my tiee set

And still had 10 stacks

[swift tinsel]

coup just reset my 10

[steel zinc]

I used deathstalker

Never spec into trickster

Maybe sth to do with ds

[swift tinsel]

You said you bet is has something to do with coup, it resets with other abilities too for me

[steel zinc]

I was meming that the tier set is bugged and it is for me

[swift tinsel]

Just reset with evisc as ds

[steel zinc]

Idk what can I say I testes deathstalker 10m hitting a dummy

And even took off my tier set and stacks didn't go away

Tested it like 90m ago

Maybe they fixed if

I mean if it finally works at its a 15% chance and not 50% to fall off that's good news

[hazy breach]

Nah they didnt change anything, it still works like it did last week

Where it procs on shadowed and per hit

[swift tinsel]

animation is the only thing I can tell they fixed, other bigger bugs still there

[steel zinc]

Like idk then worked for me bugged