subtlety

[round latch]

😂

im joking

huge gz

[pliant topaz]

:3

[wind canopy]

#1080572530554835072

[pliant topaz]

make me

:

3

[wind canopy]

MODS

[pliant topaz]

hi how can we help you

[wind canopy]

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-mouse-rat-hello-waving-gif-16690967

[teal frost]

is there any WA or setting to stop so tricky from being over my head permanently?

[spark tusk]

No

No way to change that

Maybe give yourself a raid marker so it covers it up or something

but that's it

[teal frost]

how the hell does blizz not fix this stuff... I know their is no way people have not complained on the forums

[spark tusk]

No gonna lie fam

[lilac stag]

No one plays the spec.

No one complains.

[spark tusk]

The tricks icon over our heads is very low on the priority list

[lilac stag]

We just roll with it.

It’s minor compared to everything else.

[spark tusk]

And isn't really something I'd consider as needing "fixed" compared to a bunch of the other problems

It'd be nice but it's nbd

[teal frost]

agree to disagree lol.. not on priority, but its very distracting

[spark tusk]

maybe I'm just constructed in a manner most unique

[brisk onyx]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Surely one of the dozen sub players have made a post about it

Unfortunately we arent mages, nobody plays rogue and even fewer play sub. So were incredibly far down on the priority list for fixes

[lilac stag]

I don’t even see it any longer

[hazy breach]

Theres no way mage or ret wouldve had a bug like the Rs bug for over a year

But it is what it is

[lilac stag]

I’m sad that it’s gotten to the point (again) that I don’t want to be on my rogue

[pliant topaz]

this bug is partially why I quit btw.

came back after xmas break. 2 weeks of no wow. on reclear on queen, I just realized how infuriating it was

had a moment of clarity, why the fuck am i doing this if they give so little fuck about me as a player/customer

fuck them im out

[lilac stag]

It really is that basic

[round latch]

rogue is a class that will suffer for eternity from bugs

its how it is,u wanna play a class that gets attention try mage

[pliant topaz]

or u know, play a better game

break the cycle

[round latch]

also true

[pliant topaz]

I do get peoples attachments with wow though

I had no attachments. i started in DF so i have no good ol memories holding me back

I see incompotence, horrible management. bye

I still am interested in rogue, and TCing for it, but coudlnt care elss about the game

[round latch]

thats fair and honest

i like that to ppl rly

ppl evading and all is boring

u r golden 👌

[teal frost]

I thought yall were being hyperbolic about the numbers for subrogue... went to look it up and jesus

[pliant topaz]

[lilac stag]

We just spit facts here

[teal frost]

lowest m+ numbers and lowest raid numbers

[lilac stag]

and…

https://tenor.com/view/dog-chill-apt-apt-apt-apt-gif-16505586974465544801

[teal frost]

itd be impressive if it wasnt so depressing

[pliant topaz]

specs not really intuitive, many people cant really pick it up and just perform

it got a lot worse with the 10.2 rework (became harder to just pickup)

so fewer people are interested in trying it out

[tepid trellis]

U ain’t no mod bozo

[pliant topaz]

or if they try it, they cant get around the weird super starved all the time playstyle and get frustrated (even though thats the theme of sub)

[wind canopy]

MOD

[teal frost]

its the most natural feeling one to me, but i've only played it low level. I hate outlaw and feel meh about ass

[wind canopy]

Send this man to :3 jail

[pliant topaz]

:C

[lilac stag]

They’ve (unintentionally?) kept the spec out of the hands of average players. Now they’re steadily alienating the rest of us that have stuck with it.

[teal frost]

I'm a WW/BM main so I'm used to twiddling my thumbs waiting on energy lol

[pliant topaz]

fair enough. Specs still quite unique, like people really underestimate how useless you are outside of dance

so its just a lot to pickup

so people drop it

[lilac stag]

We’re more than happy to help if ya need it.

[pliant topaz]

i also feel like (no data cant back it up), we lose more core sub players than we gain

so its jiust slowly dying

[teal frost]

im not surprised. also tanks dont stand still anymore because positioning behind not a thing for most specs like it used to be, can see that being annoying in keys

[pliant topaz]

thats not a thing

backstab does 2% of your damage

[teal frost]

thats a general problem in wow in general

[pliant topaz]

a tiny buff to that is irrelevent

[pliant topaz]

eh, you have core sub playrers leaving the spec for other specs. so even intra-wow playebase is leaving the spec is my point

[teal frost]

wait. do i not need to be behind to apply find weakness?

[pliant topaz]

no

[teal frost]

thats how i interpreted the tooltip

thats good to know

[pliant topaz]

backstab crits / strikes from stealth/shadow dance give FW

[lilac stag]

Impactful bugs, unintuitive gameplay, zero visuals for any dopamine hits. Just rough. look at someone like warriors complaining about x not doing enough dmg, but holy shit they visuals are so fun

[strange chasm]

This is why you just play ass rogue lmao

[lilac stag]

Don’t wish that on anyone

[spark tusk]

I'll go down with the ship 🫡

Though I'm a casual

I'm still here and basically never change from sub on my rogue

[lilac stag]

I’ll harpoon you with my spear to save you Capt’n

[tepid trellis]

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dropped-this-king-you-dropped-this-queen-you-dropped-this-you-dropped-this-king-meme-you-dropped-this-meme-gif-25206668

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/sparkle-eyes-eevvee-amazed-gif-12566593

[lilac stag]

You’re just here because you enjoy the challenges of making WAs for fucked up blizzard spaghetti code

[spark tusk]

hey

that's only

50% true

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sheldon-sheldon-cooper-jim-parsons-big-bang-theory-the-big-bang-theory-gif-5618307

[hazy breach]

Ye and in amirdrassil when it was the best raid spec in the entire game it was like 3rd or 4th from the bottom in terms of popularity

[swift tinsel]

Not enough Dust enjoyers

[teal frost]

nah now thats not true tho

[hazy breach]

At one point it was

But ye not at the end

[teal frost]

i mean, not during s3 at all. thats 10.2, and 10.2.5 is similar numbers

[hazy breach]

Thats the last two weeks of 10.2

[teal frost]

all of aberrus its still at least top half on popularity for dps specs

[lilac stag]

Hahah

[hazy breach]

Aberrus is before rework

[teal frost]

it definitely looks like it didnt fall off until awakened

[pliant topaz]

^

aberus was before rework

ill give you a better example. in season 4 df, sub wasnt bad, but wasnt the best rogue spec by a mile. it was about the same as sin, maybe a bit worse.

[wind canopy]

I mean, awakened stuff shouldn't really count since silly season

[pliant topaz]

the only people playing sub at that point, were people who liked sub. theres not many of them

[teal frost]

its still good to look at for popularity

[pliant topaz]

but also thats a bit weird because sectech had a bug where it didnt count inlogs for like 1.5 months, and bilzz couldnt care less to fix it

[teal frost]

right, was making subrogue look like it did tank level damage yeah? I remember a rogue raider we were recruiting saying something about it

[wind canopy]

Not really since no one was really playing?

[pliant topaz]

eh, out of the people playing, u can still extract information from the distribution.

specially when all 3 specs were basically the same

[teal frost]

i mean, people were still playing, and it shows you who is most dedicated

[pliant topaz]

in terms of output

[hazy breach]

Still does if youre 100+ yards away from the person logging

[teal frost]

if anything s4 showed you MORE who wanted to just always play THEIR spec

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[teal frost]

well makes sense, its a secret

#role playing

[spark tusk]

holy truuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[pliant topaz]

regardless, the 10.2 rework had very good thigns and very bad things, it was very incomplete. made the spec baseline more unintuitive and difficult. introduced a fuck load of new and frustraiting bugs. many people who used to enjoy sub (specially its simplicity in m+ ) left the spec.

spec is barely recovering the damage that was done to it in m+ now at the end of this season (even though its still ont meta and has horrible pain points)

[teal frost]

yeah it feels like there is some button bloat too'

[pliant topaz]

in season 3 DF i litearlly told realz, they could buff bp by 50% and it still woudlnt save sub.

now here we are, almost 80% buff to bp in 11.1

and its still not op

mabye i can see the future or maybe i can read logs or maybe i played the spec. who knows how i coulda seen it coming

[teal frost]

obviously the answer is to buff shuriken tornado and goremaws bite to both be meta so that there are more buttons

at least I don't have to hit SnD anymore, thats nice

[pliant topaz]

thats funny, but in reality it is possible to fix aloy of these things. jut takes some effort... but its not worth the time investment.

better imprvoe the experience of 20% of player base by 1 % than 1% of playerbase by 20%

[teal frost]

i mean, if they arent going to fix tank and healer issues that affect a much bigger portion of the playerbase, yeah, I get what youre saying

its extra bad because blizz's expectation of dps only classes seems to be "we'll make sure one spec is playable, just play it for this season"

even mage was struggling with that in DF

this season they're back to eating well

but for a while it was like "hey you have to play THIS mage spec"

same for warlock and hunter

just feels bad

[pliant topaz]

thats just part of a role based game

specifically if its a role based game where players pick their team mates

imagine youre playing league, and you have to build your comp to play.

[teal frost]

im not saying that metas wouldnt exist and that perfect balance is achievable

[pliant topaz]

now the otp rengar toplaner is gonna sit in Q for 20 years

[teal frost]

but it could be better than this

and the bugs are inexcusable

[pliant topaz]

eventhough bro was challenger last 10 years

[teal frost]

as a monk main I feel yall on the bugs

so many

that stay in for so long

for no reason

[pliant topaz]

doesnt matter how good it gets really.

unelss its litearlly within 1%.

AND

the utility is homogonized

its not happening

because players get to decide

[teal frost]

thats not true. that kind of thing matters for the top 1% of players

[pliant topaz]

and why bring a no utility fury warrior that does dthe same damage

why does it matter only for the top 1%?

[teal frost]

for your average mythic raiders who get late CE, you just gotta not be worthless on dps

[pliant topaz]

if youre a person progging a +7 key, and thats a hard key for you, why would u pick a dps spec that des 1% less damage on average?

[teal frost]

because they have 300 more score?

[pliant topaz]

i mean, raid is a meme, u can clear with anything really i meant more so m+

[teal frost]

like, by that logic, no one would have 15s completed on anything not meta

people don't 100% meta slave

even at title range

[pliant topaz]

not really. you can play with friends and time keys, then use the IO to get in other keys

[teal frost]

I literally have pushed full pugs as non meta plenty of times, not title range sure, but plenty high past the 20/10 range

[hazy breach]

You can time keys that are 1 levels below the highest with full offmeta, most seasons this is true

[teal frost]

as brewmaster and as beastmaster hunter. least desirable tank and pretty low on the totem pole rdps

[pliant topaz]

I think eleem, prophet, kush and I were the only sub rogue players that pushed title in 10.2

but if u think i could get in pug keys

idk what to tell you

[hazy breach]

But you cant get invites

[pliant topaz]

in 10.2 i timed rank 11 world throne

and i couldnt get into 25 throne pugs

because sub

[hazy breach]

Critcake onetricks warrior with a set group, they pretty much always do -1 or -2 to top keys

And dps* warrior is never meta

[pliant topaz]

and its not always the dps of the specs

like in 10.1.5

if u didnt have the god comp

you litearlly had to change the route

because u needed the mindsooth

u needed the sleep walk thingy

for the route. not a dps thing

and in higher keys a lot of these get homogonized. like routes.

so youre just less likely to get in if it means theyre gonna have to change pulls

[hazy breach]

Part of the reason why sub is cringe now

[teal frost]

idk what to tell you, I seen people do it time and again, almost every season since I started in SL S1, post to comp subreddit results, no names with 3 viewers streaming doing it. unless you're pushing those literal top keys, you can get into stuff as off meta as long as the spec isnt the absolute worst

[hazy breach]

Were saying the same things you are

Except you dont get invites

[pliant topaz]

^

[hazy breach]

The problem isnt doing the content, its getting invited

[pliant topaz]

you can time these unless its litaerlly r1

you just dont get invited

[teal frost]

ok but I'm saying it in response to this

spec balance doesnt need to be within a percent to be good enough to open up comp and make people more willing to take off meta

[pliant topaz]

thats not a response to that really. youre equally less likely to get into a lower key, if youre a non meta spec when theres meta specs with the same io as you

[teal frost]

it just needs to better than it currently is

[hazy breach]

Idk its actually fairly good right now

If shamans were toned down like 3-5%

[pliant topaz]

statisticlly if 2 people of similar skills play on 2 specs, one meta, one non meta, the meta spec will exponentially get more invites. because they spend less time between keys since more initial invite rates, then they gain more io, now they are meta and have io advantage

[pliant topaz]

my point is just that in a role based game, where youre bottlenecked by how many tank/healers play the game. if people are deciding who to invite, youre just gonna have a really hard enforced weird meta. thats all.

[teal frost]

It'd be easier to get off meta invites if balance was tighter. People wouldnt auto write off bad specs

[pliant topaz]

season 1 DF was the best ive ever seen a season be.

[pliant topaz]

at what point does balance gets really bad? 10%? 5%? 1%?

[hazy breach]

Then people just write you off based on other things, like no CR, no BL, less tanky, no utility etc

[pliant topaz]

because balance right now is within 5%

[teal frost]

DF season 1 was absolutely way better on balance

[pliant topaz]

and thats basically as good as its gonna get

[hazy breach]

People in pugs would rather take a DK than a rogue right now, even though rogues do more damage

[pliant topaz]

^

[hazy breach]

Because DKs can rez when the tank dies (which they always do)

[pliant topaz]

even though you can buy the jumpercable thingies rank 3

doesnt matter though

[hazy breach]

Well you cant tank the mobs for 5 seconds

DKs can

[pliant topaz]

evasion stonks

but yea

[teal frost]

I mean thats more an issue with required utility not having actually usable substitutes

[pliant topaz]

see? youre adding more and more to it then

theres damage

theres utility

[hazy breach]

My buddy has a clip of him tanking first boss grimba 16 for the last 15%

[teal frost]

jumper cables being melee with a cast time is ass

[pliant topaz]

theres defensive

[hazy breach]

As a frost dk

[pliant topaz]

theres raid/group buffs

you either homogonize it all

or you kinda get something like this

[teal frost]

youre kinda proving my point thats it not balanced lol

[pliant topaz]

my point is how do you define the balance?

all same damage same utility same tankiness?

because theres a lot of ways to loko at it

hence my comment "either homogonize everything, or its kinda as good as it gets"

[teal frost]

if you have required utility you need to make it available to all or none

group building should not be based off bres or hero

[pliant topaz]

then this.

[teal frost]

there are a hundred other aspects to this game that its not homogenized

how you do your rotation for one

[pliant topaz]

eh, idk about that one, rotation in wow is like kinda the bare minimum difficulty

theres nothing really to it

[teal frost]

you can have class utility thats different, like dk has grip rogue has sap

[spark tusk]

Sap is extremely niche compared to grip

[pliant topaz]

^

how often do you need sap?

[teal frost]

youre missing the point

sap is niche because they dont design for it

[spark tusk]

I love sap (the ability, not the company, fuck SAP and their shitty products)

[pliant topaz]

thats not a realistic thing then

[spark tusk]

It's genuinely fun to use but it is not usable in the current state of the game because yeah, they don't design for it

[teal frost]

its like how this season there are a ton of poisons and curses but not much else

shit balance

[pliant topaz]

you cant design dungeons for the unique super niche utility of all specs

[teal frost]

because it is an artificial power bump to mage, shaman, druid

you can very easily look at that and say "hey lets change this dispel type"

"make SV require disease dispel instead"

[pliant topaz]

eh, sure, i guess. dispells are inherently cringe and limiting. but theres more to it than that

[teal frost]

you can absolutely design for all these kinds of things

[pliant topaz]

i disagree with that

completly

but we can agree to disagree

[teal frost]

"hey make this hallway wide enough you can skip with sap/mindsoothe"

"hey take away truesight so you can shroud here"

and vice versa

"hey every dungeon has a shroud skip we need to add truesight in a few of these"

[pliant topaz]

then it becomes "ah yes roguye mandatory" then it becomes " ah yes dk mandatory" then it becomes " ah yes priest mandatory".

[teal frost]

it doesnt though

not if every dungeon has different good things

and bad things

and different routes for different classes

[pliant topaz]

at some point it does. its an infinitely scaling system. u go high enough , the value of certain things become more.

maybe value of skipping a specific pack is more than the value of spending healer gcds for a dispell later

[teal frost]

right but I'm not talking about the highest end

[pliant topaz]

so u drop the dispells

it becomes optimized

[teal frost]

I'm talking mid to high levels of play

[pliant topaz]

i mean sure, buut like u can do a 14 on anything

[teal frost]

shit even low levels

[pliant topaz]

u can do a 15 on litearlly anything

it doesnt matter

but people still gatekeep

thats not a real problem blizzard needs to solve then right?

i can litearlly play the worst specs in the game for each of the dungeons and time them on a 15

[teal frost]

yeah and again thats to my point. they gatekeep because they are given a good reason to

[pliant topaz]

not raelly. at high enough key levels, they have a reason, but it gets so optimized that blizzard cant tune for it.

[teal frost]

if blizz didnt make every dungeon have a decurse, people wouldnt force shaman as much

[pliant topaz]

at lower, they dont have a good reason, you can litealrly do any dungeon on a 10 with any comp

but people still care because having a dispell here makes it sliiiightly easier

even though on a 10 that dispell does like 5% of someones health u could just ignore it

theres videos in this channel of people timing like 16 GB i think without decurse?

so its doable even on relatively highkeys

[teal frost]

its all a feedback loop though is the point. "I need shaman for SV. For GB. For AK." and that translates over time to reinforced behavior. It turns into "you always need a shaman for every key." Even at the 15 level players will do that. And if that wasnt the case they would be far less likely to develop that thought

[spark tusk]

people don't want to be rude and it's rude to be bad at warcraft

[pliant topaz]

LE how are you so based

every time

[teal frost]

like, look at s2 DF. Aug was always gonna be meta, it was poorly designed on launch. But priest didnt HAVE to be meta, but there were 1000 things that MD was insane for.

[spark tusk]

it's not my idea I just listen to yt video essays while I do the dishes

[pliant topaz]

i do the same, yet here I am yelling at my jungler wondering how he turned on his computer when he clearly doesnt have hands"

very not based of me

[teal frost]

blizz is just all over the place, its like devs barely talk to eachother, if at all, and they all do their own thing and throw it together at the end. these things shouldnt even all be surprises to them, a lot of them pop up on beta/ptr

to say balance couldnt be better, that they couldnt change anything to improve the game, its just all very defeatist

this game has a million tiny knobs that could all slowly be turned every week

but they instead just crank them 180 degrees every couple of months

[pliant topaz]

comes a point when u dont carae and just quit

that was 3 months ago for me

now im raging at my botlaners in league

[teal frost]

Are you really even the best person to make an argument on it then? Just showing you're defeatist. I don't blame you for quitting, just don't know how you argue it couldnt be better then

I haven't hit a point where I don't care and want to quit because honestly even with all its issues that need fixing I've not found another multiplayer PvE game that is as fun as wow

[pliant topaz]

am It he best person? nope. im just a guy voicing my own thoughts, because i am free to do so

you are also free to listen, engage with them, or not

I pushed at pretty much the highest level for all pve content except race to world first obv.

[teal frost]

every other pve game you just hit a point where its either not challenging and you've hit the top end, or the game's infinite scaling doesnt feel like its intended for you to keep going

[pliant topaz]

then realized this game sucks, isnt made for me, the devs arent very good at their job, and the managements awful

so i left

[teal frost]

no other traditional mmorpg does infinite scaling, and all the new ones that do are primarily aimed at single player, it sucks. I hope Fellowship is well made and becomes popular, but I don't have faith in the latter and starting to lose it about the former

[pliant topaz]

surely riot MMO will save mmo genre

[teal frost]

eh

[pliant topaz]

[teal frost]

id love for it to

but

idk worried they will cashgrab

[pliant topaz]

i dont think riot has done any cashgrab thing before in any of their games

[teal frost]

i don't like CS type shooters but they did a good job, and card game was fun, so hey maybe ill be wrong

[spark tusk]

hasn't that been promised for like a decade?

is that actually happening

[steady timber]

In another decade

[teal frost]

part of why I quit LoL though was it felt very much cash grabby at the time. I more quit because of toxicity but it wasnt the only factor

[rocky ocean]

bro an mmo is humongous effort

[pliant topaz]

as far as i know, it was kind of a community meme, then from what i heard some actual developers started pitching it, and then it got attention, and then riot started investing to it. they even hired ghost crawler and a full team of other people to wokr on its story, world, direction all that stuff (this was like 2-3 years ago i think?)

then lat year ghost crawler left the project, riot said theyre resetting the project.

apparently they wanted to create essentially the next version of what an mmo would be. but what they had was just a different version of existing MMOs

so they wanted to spend more time finding the game

[pliant topaz]

which part of lol is cash grabby though?

[tribal blade]

ghostcrawler., there's a name i haven't heard in a while

[pliant topaz]

yeah he started his own studio i think

[teal frost]

new heros were strong but expensive to unlock, ramp up in skin costs, new currencies felt intentionally obsure and all over the place to make them difficult to use instead of the cash shop currency

[pliant topaz]

his new studio https://fantasticpixelcastle.com/

[teal frost]

this was... 8? 9? years ago

[tribal blade]

oh shit nice

[pliant topaz]

eh, the champions are all kinda free to get. They did an interview and said champions never made them any money ever, they just wanted to make them rare so new players dont get overwhelemed (dont knopw how much i believe this).

but also, the skins are like idk, theyre just consemtics u can buy if u want

the core game has 0 money attached to it

[teal frost]

right

which is good

but

something doesnt have to be related to power to be a cash grab

wow does it all the time

$20 transmogs and mounts

[pliant topaz]

eh, idk, to me thats a w/e. if you like a skin you can buy it, if not u dont. i think wows new mount that does something unique no other thing int he game can (AH + mailbox) is cashgrab

i dont personally have issues with random shop mounts though.

[teal frost]

but at the time, every new hero was fucking busted on release, and if you didnt have them week one your team was just at a disadvantage in both casual and in ranked if they didnt catch a ban

[pliant topaz]

the $90 mount one yea i had a problem with

i think games come a long long way since then

[old venture]

isn't there xp boosts you pay real money for?

[pliant topaz]

i think u can unlock them for free by just plying now?

like you get missions, u do the mission, u get boosts

[old venture]

brother I haven't played league since 2008

[pliant topaz]

yeah its changed a lot

its a lot better

[teal frost]

level doesnt matter like it did in 08

[pliant topaz]

in the early days they didnt know how to monotize it properly

[old venture]

I remember needing to level to use the runebooks or whatever

[teal frost]

they introduced a new system

[pliant topaz]

the real cashgrab part of leagye back then was the rune pages

[old venture]

ye

[teal prawn]

500$ fomo ahri skin is pretty cash grab

[pliant topaz]

but now, its only skins

[spark tusk]

[old venture]

open beta

and closed beta

[pliant topaz]

yep 100%. but also its a skin u can buy or not, and does nothing

[old venture]

fight me lisonna

[spark tusk]

oh sorrry you were fancy

[old venture]

then my account got hacked, and sold, and I recovered it, and then they perma banned it for "account sharing"

[teal prawn]

so is the wow mount, you can go to an ah or mailbox

[old venture]

so I lost all my beta skins

[teal frost]

yeah but that also hurt. that was painful to have all those taken away and given some shit currency. its part of why I say felt like a cashgrab

[pliant topaz]

that one has an in game functionality that nothing else does. a skin doesnt have that.

i dont have a problem with all the other wow mounts

[old venture]

I lost my favorite skin, the king bowser rammus skin

[pliant topaz]

just that one

[teal frost]

I had every rune and max rune pages unlocked

[old venture]

[molten citrus]

$500 is kinda… even for an optional cosmetic..

[teal frost]

just taken away from me

[old venture]

I did too

[molten citrus]

Games these days need more regulation imo it’s getting insane

[teal prawn]

the functionality already exists in game tho, its not exlusive to the mount

[old venture]

as long as it stays for just cosmetics

[pliant topaz]

yeah that one was unique, they started doing this $250 skin line thingy, where they litearlly made an article and said we are basically making this ONLY for whales, because we know whales love whaling.

[old venture]

I think its fine

kinda like the $90 mount

[pliant topaz]

but that specific one had another unique thing attached to it, the skin came with fakers signiture

so it was 500

[old venture]

it's essentially flexing

[pliant topaz]

i mean you can twist my words, but if im stuckin the middle of nowhere, nothing else in the game can make give me AH and a mailbox. but you can litearlly play league identically with or without a skin (except project ashe, which was removed because its ult animation was too similar to her E/w i think so got disabled because it counted as pay to win)m

which is my ponit, the only skin ever that had the slightest imbalance / power attached to it got removed

[molten citrus]

The mount is technically pay for convenience 100%

[pliant topaz]

yea

idk jus looking at arcane, the new comics theyre making, the new cinematics everything, makes me think they care more about their world

so im excited to see what they build

[teal frost]

AH mount is p2w. But again, cash grab isnt just about power.

[molten citrus]

While I don’t really care about skins in a free game like league, I still think hundred dollar+ is predatory

[pliant topaz]

their track record of games, gives me the idea that every game they make is gonna be amazing

[spark tusk]

yes but look at my chonky boy I love him

[molten citrus]

I also think the same of wow not being free and charging for extra shit but that ship has sailed

[old venture]

(I have both)

[teal frost]

yeah, I can agree with all this, and hope it turns out to be true

[old venture]

did you know that the base for that bruto

is actually the yak

kick off the vendors

and zoom in

you can see the seats from the yak

[pliant topaz]

league-> best moba, tft-> best /most popular strategy game, valorant -> beat cs go in player count and now is most popular

and then listening to their devs, looking at patch cycles, they have actally good devs

so im excited for the mmo

[spark tusk]

OH MY FUCKING GOD YOU'RE RIGHT

It's literally inside the bruto wtf

[old venture]

[old venture]

@soft mauve

complimentary ruin Jez's night ping

[molten citrus]

[teal frost]

old bruto too apparently

they just slammed it over top yak

[molten citrus]

No way they shipped that for $90

[old venture]

It's way less noticeable on the old brutosaur though I think

[teal frost]

they did

we are wallets

nothing more

[old venture]

brother

look at TWW

cmon now

[teal frost]

its a problem

everyone quit to talk with your money

[tepid trellis]

project ashe?

[teal frost]

game goes under

do nothing

[molten citrus]

I’m going to banana myself

[teal frost]

no improvements

[pliant topaz]

yeah got banned from all competitive plays

because of its animations

i believe

[old venture]

not allowed, I like you too much

[spark tusk]

Hey I paid with gold

[molten citrus]

[teal frost]

we needed a philantropist gamer to by blizz. not microsoft

[teal frost]

youre just paying with someone else's money then

slightly better

but not really

[spark tusk]

Oh yeah I know

[tepid trellis]

dont think it is

[spark tusk]

I'm just saying it didn't come from my wallet

[tepid trellis]

atleast it was used at worlds a few years ago

so like depending on when that ban happened

[pliant topaz]

i think this is whats banned right now?

[old venture]

surgery tomorrow and I'm scared, @tepid trellis hold me

[teal frost]

lol imagine not just fixing the visual

[pliant topaz]

i love you oxi dont be scared

[pliant topaz]

its not a fix to visual

like the syndra one, its banned because the animation is too different from other syndra skins

[teal frost]

I meant ashe

you said banned because ult looks like E

[tepid trellis]

dived a lil

it seems it is NOT currently banned but was

they have fixed the E animation

[teal frost]

but also... just change the animation then

[pliant topaz]

the article was from 2022 so yeah maybe they fixed dit and released it

[soft mauve]

the amount of fear I just experienced being pinged in Sub

[molten citrus]

[pliant topaz]

its part of the identity of the skin, for most players it doesnt really matter, and it might be something they enjoy. it fits with the theme of star gaurdian skinline

[teal frost]

oh

[soft mauve]

but also wtf am I looking at

[tepid trellis]

you will be fine

[teal frost]

AH mount is just slapped on the frame for yak

and you can see the yak mount through it when animation shifts

[pliant topaz]

yeah i read the article it said E animation was hard to see, but got fixed and skins released

[soft mauve]

[old venture]

I ruined it for lisonna

[pliant topaz]

hope it goes well oxi. i giff u msg tmrw pls respond gg

[old venture]

so I figured I'd ruin it for you too

[old venture]

tomorrow gonna be a rough one bud

surgery's at 10am

im probably gonna be zonked out for most of the day

[pliant topaz]

hope it goes well boo!

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/love-hug-heartbreak-hotel-bff-gif-14479095

[wind canopy]

Pinging you every day now

[soft mauve]

Jokes on you I ignore half my shit

[wind canopy]

[rocky ocean]

@Rogue

No rogues in rogue discord smh my head

[soft mauve]

Gonna go spam @cold badge with Taylor swift girl dinner memes and then sleep the best sleep of my life

[wind canopy]

I approve of this message

[cold badge]

https://tenor.com/view/1blocked-message-discord-meme-troll-brick-wall-gif-23392632

[vale pine]

hope everything goes well

[void hound]

pretty sure i saw ruler use it the other day in LCK

[worn cape]

How good is sub rogue on the strike team on Bloodbound Horror?

[fallow nimbus]

You need 2 teams even if you only get like 2 or 3 add phases

[round latch]

everything's gonna be alright

get better

[worn cape]

But is sub rogue good for one of them?

[still trellis]

is the strike team the one that goes to the single add?

[worn cape]

yeah, that's how my team calls it, I thought it was a universal term 😂

[still trellis]

on our side it was usually the hunter/mage/boomies job and they just said that they go there

but i would assume that sub is good there

i wouldnt wanna do it as a melee tho

[worn cape]

My team mostly send the rets to it, but they're asking if anyone else wants to do it. Just don't know how I feel about holding cds for it.

[still trellis]

i def wouldnt hold cds for it

you probably wouldnt even be half through your CDs and the add would die

[worn cape]

Okay, it is just something my RL asked us. They also want me to hold opener until I know if I will be doing the first add phase or not 🤷‍♀️

[still trellis]

man thats so weird to hear, that people struggle with the adds

usually everyone is trying to pad their ass off and adds just die insta

[fallow nimbus]

Could see that in 4boss pug

[nocturne birch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[still trellis]

are you guys by anychance undergeared by a lot?

[cinder monolith]

Sorry very weird question but coming back after 10ish years to rogue and mrt has sub rogue as a 18 second pull timer ? Is this some cold blood tech I'm too out of the loop about because I thought it went on cd when consumed?

Similarly logs I've been looking at only use cold blood st on their second one? and first one is raw so came to that conclusion

[shy ermine]

It’ll be prepull symbols related

[cinder monolith]

Something I should care about or just giga min max that isn't applicable to someone relearning

?

[lilac stag]

You should be doing sod prepull

It’s free dps

[worn cape]

We are just a heroic team, doing some mythic bosses at the end of the season.

Average ilvl is 628

[lilac stag]

Just cast it on res, or as soon as you get to a boss.

Don’t need a special pull time

[still trellis]

aye thats pretty low, i mean if you are struggling with the adds you could hold cooldowns a bit and send it on the guy thats on the tank

thatway you cleave off of it

[cinder monolith]

18 seconds beforehand ? And why would the logs show CBST as the second st as opposed to the first st

Ah just making sure it wasn't some weird thing like warlocks asking for 20 seconds or they int or something thx

[worn cape]

We are 632 ilvl average now, but not sure if that is going to be a big difference.

[still trellis]

im gonna say it in another way, if the adds actually do manage to live you can delay cooldowns at the start and destroy the 3 where the tank is dragging the mob around

gonna suck for boss dmg

but if adds are the issue, i dont see a problem there

(only if you are in the frist group)

[worn cape]

I wish I knew which group went first. 🥲

[cinder monolith]

Ideally first group are people who's cds line up with pull and 3rd inner

2nd group is people who cd pull and 2nd inner

[worn cape]

My team does it random, whichever tank is closest to the adds will go first.

[cinder monolith]

Yeah that's pretty int if your struggling

[still trellis]

i mean sometimes its just not really possible

when the adds are on the opposite side of group 1

we also just yolo it

even did on the first kill

[cinder monolith]

Yeah that's just bad pull it's 2nd boss so it's not that bad

But ideally group one ie 90 second cds go first inner and take up 75 percent of the arena

[still trellis]

but im a rogue, what do i know, i always sent everything on boss

[cinder monolith]

I'm pretty sick rn so I can't actually remember the spew timings

It's every 45 right?

[still trellis]

lorrgs should have it, no idea

[lilac stag]

It’s a dps increase using cb with second st

But fuck that

[cinder monolith]

Yeah spawns at 5 seconds and spews at 16

[worn cape]

lorrgs only shows two abilities for this boss for some reason.

[cinder monolith]

You have time to move tot ll it

[lilac stag]

IV guide has the exact details of CB usage.

I don’t think wowhead does.

[cinder monolith]

Yeah I saw it and brain starting bleeding trying to gaslight myself into saying its a misplay instead of making me spaghetti thinking about it

[worn cape]

But looks like I will have to save opener for add phase, which means no shadowstrike at the start 😦

[still trellis]

waaaait

[cinder monolith]

No?

[still trellis]

wdym no shadowstrike

(was meant to alk)

[worn cape]

because I won't be able to start opener from* stealth

[lilac stag]

my brain just melted

[still trellis]

are you playing deathstalker on that boss?

[worn cape]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Oh hell no

[still trellis]

isnt that a trickster boss

i aint a sub master chef

but deathstalker is for pure ST afaik

[worn cape]

I was told to use DS

[cinder monolith]

You don't touch adds if your sub ds

[lilac stag]

Trickster every boss

DS assa on that boss

Sub trickster.

[still trellis]

what about princess/sikran?

[worn cape]

yeah that wouldn't work with our team lol

[lilac stag]

Trickster every boss

The antiparry is good for entire melee crew on princess

[worn cape]

tbh I suck at DS, always forget I don't have cleave and just ST the adds 😂

[cinder monolith]

I'm trickster cos I'm protesting ds ruining my muscle memory so idk what your comp looks like

[lilac stag]

DS sub can die in a dumpster fire

[still trellis]

agree

so ye, just run trickster and all your issues gonna be solved probably

[cinder monolith]

Like if you post your 20 group we can see where problem is but imo just trickster and sent cds then cleave adds down

[lilac stag]

Adds likely aren’t getting grouped fast enough

[cinder monolith]

They mentioned the far add right?

[lilac stag]

You can hit the boss from a mile away, just be near adds

[cinder monolith]

Range is inting [bm pets still on boss]

[lilac stag]

Pets are dumb

Rogue is inting playing DS

[cinder monolith]

It's int even if it's good because it makes my brain hurty with the muscle memory making me mispla6

Has garf posting spread here as well?

[lilac stag]

You brought up pets.

[worn cape]

https://guildsofwow.com/healer-problem

Heroic team is on the bottom of the page 🥲

[cinder monolith]

The adds on myth or heroic?

[worn cape]

mythic

heroic we go through in a breeze atm

We're just doing some mythic bosses for fun now

[cinder monolith]

Any of your melees can solo an add

630

[lilac stag]

Their ilvl is more prog ilvl

You can’t expect that

[keen dome]

I like that guild name, haha

[cinder monolith]

Yeah not saying they should be or are expected to

[lilac stag]

1st set of adds should fall over with lust. Second set 1-2 will need cds for. Third depends on raid dmg

[cinder monolith]

Just that it's feasible with their characters so it's entirely just adds not being targeted

[lilac stag]

They’re looking for help and you’re telling them to solo it at 630.

[cinder monolith]

Sounds elitist sorry

Sick and can't parse words properly

[worn cape]

idk, them adds just don't die

[cinder monolith]

Fury havoc and ret are 637 ish so they were who I was looking at

Which adds aren't dying?

First set ? And is it far or melee ones

[worn cape]

havoc dh said last raid night: I don't know what I am doing, just pressing buttons.

He is supposed to be vengeance but the other tank hasn't rerolled yet

[lilac stag]

Yeah havoc isn’t gonna button mash well

[cinder monolith]

He's vibing cos he can't be replaced 3 percent magic and nobody wants to play 40 button opener

[worn cape]

the two rets, warrior & enh shammy do pump tho

[still trellis]

One more thing to this before i forget, you can start with a shadowstrike. Because in dance you press shadowstrike anyways so you place your mark onto that mob anyways

[worn cape]

but they are on strike team

[cinder monolith]

Your melee aoe are having to go for far adds?

That's the problem then

[worn cape]

Tell my RL that :p

[still trellis]

Far adds are the ranges job

And not even because of logs or whatever

Its just logical

[round latch]

unless u wanna omegapad

and go full aoe

but still a range issue

also who raids this time around

[still trellis]

me (court prog)

[still trellis]

well since they are just tackling in mythic for fun and just wanna kill bosses, i would assume they go for the logical way

[keen linden]

Hello rogues

[vale pine]

hey hotcold

[round latch]

cant argue with that

[small spruce]

Does tier set still not work on the ptr?😅

[round latch]

yes we are dooming

[uncut socket]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[uncut socket]

Is it no longer a thing to have the stance macro?

[still trellis]

if the tierset aint working, we wont be getting hc week nerfs (surely), so no reason to doom

[round latch]

we are dooming for what might not come(the buff)

[still trellis]

you are thinking too far ahead, see i dont even expect a bugfix and here you are expecting a buff smh

[worn cape]

So basically:

1. Don't volunteer for the strike team lol
2. Cry because I have to hold opener for possible first add phase
3. Maybe play trickster on this boss

[still trellis]

Maybe play trickster on this boss

i could see it technically be a gain in logs to hold opener for the first adds

but ye you dont wanna do the solo add

no melee should have to do that (besides ret pala, feck 'em)

[worn cape]

4. Beg RL to put ranged on strike team so the big aoe melee specs can mow adds and I can stick to ST

[still trellis]

i mean with trickster you just do your ST and cleave automatically

[vale pine]

it works a bit, but still not fully

[small spruce]

Amazing😂

[still trellis]

also one more thing you might not be doing, you can just cloak the big circle when everyone runs away

[worn cape]

I wonder if a lot of the top 100 logs use DS on Ulgrax because they don't do adds???

[worn cape]

Yeah I learned that very recently 😂

[still trellis]

first boss doesnt have adds in the logs, so for top logs you would want as much ST as possible

[worn cape]

I finally feel comfortable doing my rotation so I am looking into some more boss specific stuff now and especially how to use cloak

[worn cape]

I meant bloodbound lol

My brain is slowly frying to nothingness

[still trellis]

man warcraftlogs on phone sucks, but ye probably because they just do pure ST

they also melt the boss a lot faster than you guys i'd assume

because technically deathstalker is better for pure ST, atleast thats how i know it

if its more fun, now thats something else

[fallow nimbus]

You can also dumb all your resources in p1 at first boss

Then recharge everything while bp spaming the adds

[worn cape]

Yeah that's what I am doing on the first boss.

But I think for second boss I probs have to go trickster and kill some adds. 🤷‍♀️

[still trellis]

if adds are the issue, thats gonna be the solution most likely

you could at first just try to send everything on pull

and go without CDs and see how well trickster does

and if you guys still wipe to adds, hold CDs for adds

even if it feels shit

[worn cape]

Do I use the trickster cleave raid build from WoWhead?

[still trellis]

uhm, i think thats a @vale pine question

i dont wanna say yes to that and then get told it was wrong

[worn cape]

They also have trickster build for it on the nerubar palace page.

maybe that is a safer bet 😂

[vale pine]

can do but you are fine running the single target build everywhere

[hazy breach]

What talents do the cleave build even swap

rs?

[lilac stag]

The what build?

Fuu what is this wowhead propaganda?

[still trellis]

i think there is a cleave build on the talent builds page

couldnt really check it out on phone so i gave up and left this question to the smarter guys

[vestal escarp]

I dont think we learn the Cleave ability

[rocky ocean]

Maybe we should

[lilac stag]

Cleave and ST for trickster is the same.

unless it dropped RS in ST because of bug

[old venture]

[vale pine]

yes

[vale pine]

there is no propaganda, wowhead instructed us to add a build for st, cleave, aoe

[haughty mural]

RS

[lilac stag]

💣

[odd sandal]

Hi do you guys know if there is a weakaura that makes sound when shadow techniques proc? I find myself losing free Evis when there is a lot of going on the screen and i can't loot at class WA

[lilac stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[lilac stag]

Assuming you mean shadowcraft

[odd sandal]

Oh i didn't know full refund is shadowcraft not shadow techniques

yeah i meant that thank you:)

[candid gate]

just wanted to come in here to say that i’ve been having a lot of fun playing sub rogue since coming back from a couple months away from the game. the amount of resources and knowledge in this discord/on the various websites is fucking awesome. yall are the best, thank you for all the work yall do

[keen dome]

Hell yeah more Sub rogues

[haughty mural]

More Sub Rogues more blue posts

[keen dome]

We grow daily.

[haughty mural]

like my copium does

[next fjord]

Is sub super hard or is the spec just different than other specs?

[worn cape]

I don't find the rotation very hard, but if you make a mistake your dps will go bye-bye.

[keen dome]

It has a lot of weird quirks and can be quite unintutitve. It used to be a lot more punishing, too. I don't think it's a hard spec, but it does take more effort to learn the rules and understand the quirks and complexitites imo

[lilac stag]

Hunter ilvl check.

[next fjord]

God that gives me Arcane Mage flashbacks

[lilac stag]

It has some of the most un-intuitive design of any dps spec. It’s got a number of bugs you need to be aware of to max dps. You have more plates to spin than most other specs. The reward is big burst, the let down is knowing the spec likely isn’t getting any serious attention from the devs.

It falls off hard is serious content playrate wise because keeping that up, in melee with mythic mechanics isn’t exactly easy.

[worn cape]

We are so stealthy that they forgot we exist.

[keen dome]

We just need more Sub rogues.

[tranquil garden]

You do top tier dps at the moment with the best burst in the game too, which is opposite of what you'd expect, so it's pretty ridiculous

[keen dome]

Also, we glow purple. nobody else can glow purple.

We're just cool like that.

[lilac stag]

Not happening unless there’s a 300% buff to BP

[keen dome]

Well.

[lilac stag]

Shadow priest says hello

[keen dome]

We're at a point where a 300% buff to BP could happen which is very funny.

[keen dome]

nuh-uh they glow wine I had this argument in trade chat.

[lilac stag]

I know

also any spec can glow purple with a cursed pickaxe in their bags.

[keen dome]

They've taken everything from us

[lilac stag]

pmuch

[vale pine]

lol

[haughty mural]

625

almost done

[lilac stag]

Nice. Hit 613. Need to get a 10 done still this week.

Was pleased for 3 days of gearing

[hot plaza]

has much changed in our rotaion in s2 please? like for instance is sectech still got to be the first finisher in dance pls? ty

[lilac stag]

tbd

Check back closer to patch. The big brains are working on it.

[hot plaza]

nice one thanks mate ❤️

[haughty mural]

there is still time till 11.1 hits so not too shaby

[hazy breach]

Surely the tier set will work any day now

[lilac stag]

Yeah I’m not too worried. I’d like to get some reps in with key though.

[keen dome]

It'll work tomorrow when they fix it 💪

[lilac stag]

It’s next on the list after RS bug.

[haughty mural]

was about to say, thats the most important

[lilac stag]

trying to figure out defensives more than anything else

I’m thinking going more vers than what’s normal

[haughty mural]

the sub brain

wants vers

[vestal escarp]

I dont have alts, cant stand other classes gameplay

[haughty mural]

thats based

[lilac stag]

hard stack mastery.

my warrior became a need for raid. The rogue going alt next season.

They were both 70 a few weeks ago. lol

[haughty mural]

another one bites the dust

[lilac stag]

I want to actually have fun. Weird

[haughty mural]

i get that

i probably more a masochist guy

[keen dome]

People can play other classes and still be a Sub rogue at heart

[haughty mural]

actually warrior is the next on my list to lvl and gear up

[hot plaza]

is there anywhere i can read what can and cant be cloaked pls?

[lilac stag]

Nope

Each boss “guide” usually has some info

Pretty much yolo it and fient. Can look at lorrgs to see when people are using defensives.

[lilac stag]

I enjoy it, but I don’t love it. Our other rogue rather main warrior so I went with mad bomber. #hipsterspeclife

I’ll keep the rogue at heroic ilvl likely next tier, but gonna try to just enjoy a change of pace.

[void hound]

hello? based department?

[void hound]

look for first kill logs from good rogue and see when they press defensives

[haughty mural]

yea relatable - i had this moment in bfa when i made my CEs with my hunter

[haughty mural]

arms ?

[lilac stag]

They’re both fine. I rather play arms.

Fury on Queen

Colossus Fury in keys looks fantastic.

[haughty mural]

I'll give it a shot ig

[versed terrace]

Hey do you think it's better to try to farm every pieces on one char for the 3 specs or get a reroll for each spec ?
Atm I have my main sin and a reroll sub but im not sure about doing that for s2 (I just started doing that yesterday)

[lilac stag]

loot doesn’t matter as much as you think. Assa plays just fine with mastery vers. Craft a ring or neck with crit/mastery to swap out. Outlaw… fuck that spec.

[twilit phoenix]

Typed by outlaw green parse hands

[haughty mural]

"outlaw green parse hands"

[lilac stag]

Hard to green parse when you just don’t ever change specs to it. Dumbassery in here today apparently.

[twilit phoenix]

[haughty mural]

#outlaw message

outlaws busy posting feet

smh my head

[lilac stag]

they need foot pedals to keep up with the apm

[haughty mural]

true and based

[twilit phoenix]

High apm = bad

Good take ngl

[lilac stag]

they should just reroll prot warrior and be useful

[twilit phoenix]

Fury warrior bad too

And prot paladin

[lilac stag]

legit who the fuck are why are you trying to read into shit. go troll someplace else

[twilit phoenix]

You’re the only person in here I see consistently get worked up so much over this game

[lilac stag]

if you enjoy your 100% AR spec go have fun with it. idgaf

[haughty mural]

[twilit phoenix]

I feel like I’m being trolled

[vale pine]

let people enjoy things

[haughty mural]

outlaws nowadays coming in here just to fight

[twilit phoenix]

Sub colors, he’s outlaw!!!!!

[lilac stag]

i mean they trolled Solo off the discord, may as well look for a new channel to troll

[haughty mural]

Solo such a nice guy

[twilit phoenix]

Rip solo for sure

Giga tc’er

[keen dome]

[twilit phoenix]

Tobfon is pretty dope at working on the apl

Who are the main sub/sin tc’ers?

[keen dome]

I enjoy how purple I glow now I have the elite set. It's double purple.

[twilit phoenix]

Whisp and fuu?

[lilac stag]

Eleem, Armin, Fuu

tbd if Armin does anything going forward.

[twilit phoenix]

Ohh yee eleem and armin are goats too

[vale pine]

not sure if cev or someone else is active on sin too

sin has some people who help with tc sometimes
(so its not always whispyr alone)

[vale pine]

armin did tell me he wants to stay involved in the TC side of things even if he stops playing eventually

[hot plaza]

are there any newish videos from the top guys listed ubove please? ty ❤️

[keen dome]

I think Eleem has some that were very good?

[vale pine]

i am not sure who makes youtube videos, i think hahchadino and eleem have some on their youtube channels

(sry i don't follow wow on youtube, and had so far no time to publish myself)

[hot plaza]

no problem and thanks for that will take a look ❤️

[alpine wraith]

yea i kinda do everything on sub pve apart from high key m+

that is a dark corner of the world to venture into

at least since legion

[lilac stag]

Yeah that’s doesn’t surprise me. I’ll still be cooking trying different ideas asking you to run numbers.

We’ve got a lovely group of people all working together.

[keen dome]

I hope you'll still be posting about Sub, too

[lilac stag]

Sucks that blizzard just does nothing.

12.0 fixes it for sure.

[vale pine]

tbh, complaining does nothing scath

there will always be bad things and bugs, we aren't in a extremely bad position

[lilac stag]

About as useful as death threats towards realz.

[vale pine]

these def. went over the top

[lilac stag]

Our position is what you’re able to tolerate from the bugs. It’s does not represent others opinions. Our play rate clearly shows there are issues.

Something a buff to BP won’t fix

[fathom adder]

buff to backstab for sure will

[vale pine]

XD

[alpine wraith]

dont worry every time i log in to try things i feel funny

[keen dome]

But two buffs to BP....

Now we might be talking

[alpine wraith]

maybe 3

[hot plaza]

hey im hitting pretty good numbers as sub but im not really paying any attention to supercharger is this really bad but im always using sechtech as first finisher is dance and symbols window? ty-also should my CP bar be changing to show supercharged as mine doesnt?

[keen dome]

I think what would, really, go the furthest would just be a little bit of communicaton and recognition for long-standing, frustrating issues. "Yeah, the RS bug exists. We know. Sorry, it'll get fixed when it's fixed" would go a long way imo.

[lilac stag]

Armin stated it quite eloquently. He’s not tied to the spec since he’s newer to the game. The RS bug, and its enjoyment to the spec feedback loop is infuriating with it just being left as deal with it.

[keen dome]

You don't really need to pay attention to Supercharger directly. Since it'll always buff the first two finishers you use after hitting Symbols. So as long as you're using one of those on SecTec, it's good.

[lilac stag]

I love playing rogue. I also hate the state it’s in. Both can be true.

[keen dome]

When you say your combie bar - do you mean the Blizz default or a WA?

[hot plaza]

awesome ty mate ❤️ should my CP bar be changing to show supercharged points as mine doesnt and seen lots of others that do? ty

[keen dome]

On the default Blizzard bar, the supercharged combies should look like this:

But if you are using an addon or a weakaura, they may look different or not be set up to track them.

[hot plaza]

yeah i use afner weakaura pack doesnt seem to show them ;[

[keen dome]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[keen dome]

You could try one of these, and see how they do it and modify the pack you've got? It's not that complex to do - you can set a border to colour whena supercharged combie is detected. But it isn't superduper important to track. You know that when Symbols is pushed you gain +2 Supercharged. And you know you want your next two finishers to include a SecTec, so it's relatively straight forward.

[twilit phoenix]

hachadino guides go hard af

the dude is a goat

[alpine wraith]

yea i imagine someone that even joined in Sl would be baffled of the history of changes the spec has gotten

and as you go further into the expansions it gets weirder

[twilit phoenix]

gotten rhymes with the rotten

which is a sub talent

[rocky ocean]

I joined just after the supercharger patch and the spec is fun

[keen dome]

MoP Sub into WoD Sub into Legion Sub into BfA Sub into depression Sub into SL sub into quitting the game.

[alpine wraith]

i think wod into legion was harsh

but oh boi legion into bfa

[keen dome]

Legion into bfA wasn't so bad until the first patch.

And then it was BAD

[alpine wraith]

i was surprised there were even 2 subs

in bfa M raiding

[keen dome]

WoD was primarily funny with how Haste made the bleeds tick so fast

[alpine wraith]

nah first patch was omegacursed too

you had darkest shadow MFD first dance shenanigans

[keen dome]

Fair. I didn't find it so bad at heroic level.

[alpine wraith]

you only played sub in like 2 bosses

then mythrax joined the call

[keen dome]

So I've got no idea how cursed it got

haha

[alpine wraith]

and kicked you out of the raid team

[keen dome]

And then Zul happened and kicked Sub out of the game

[rocky ocean]

You raided with mythrax?

[alpine wraith]

then likely you were not back in g huun unless your raid didnt have enough people

yea mythrax was usually your ally

big MC into 5 people

into insta wipe

he was raiding with us

and of course blizz decided you needed to do direction hits

but then forgot to code half of the aoes in the game

so you just bouncy castled

[keen dome]

Bring back no fall damage.

That'd get people playing Sub more.

[alpine wraith]

and sprinting above the water

[keen dome]

Ye, but that's more a Rogue general thing but I don't disagree. I miss it.

It was very cool and thematic

make it a talent and put it where shadowheart is

[worn ivy]

Shadowheart is only a lilbit usefull as outlaw 🙂

I think every vanish 2gcd you get %3 leech

[vale pine]

+1 this

[worn ivy]

How much was it 3 i dont even remember

[keen dome]

2%

And it's for a single hit iirc so while Outlaw probably has the most use it's still nothing lol

Shove no fall damage in there or running on water with sprint. Bam, amazing, hire me

It'd be interesting to see them take some of the weaker pointless nodes like Shadowheart out and put functional utility or gimmicky things in there instead. Like running on water, no fall damage, pickpocket disguise glyph, etc.

[wraith sphinx]

God I miss blurred speed

[keen dome]

Even if you'd realistically not take it in most content it'd be more interesting than the current node

[wraith sphinx]

Running across the water in arathi was bis

[swift tinsel]

They just gave us Supercharger so they won't touch our class tree for a few seasons

gotta toss out the breadcrumbs but not too many

[lilac stag]

If you think of all the shit some of us have gone through with this spec it’s actually insane.

[rocky ocean]

I’d imagine every single breadcrumb as a 5% black powder buff

[swift tinsel]

Based

[keen dome]

Weaponmaster should allow Sub rogues to use two-handed swords.

[rocky ocean]

🍞

[lilac stag]

I can’t wait for DS to be the AOE spec in 11.1 and people’s brains melt with the cursed shit you’ll be doing.

[keen dome]

It'll be real annoying for a week and then you'll get used to it and it'll only be mildly annoying. Espescially as we've escaped the era of coup de graceful death off the side of the platform

[lilac stag]

You shouldn’t have to get used to that loop

[alpine wraith]

dont make me remember i was scripting the video about the degen no DN thing

and i was feeling dirty

[rocky ocean]

Degen Night

[alpine wraith]

and even now the tier still does not work and it is getting even stronger with extra shadow dmg

[lilac stag]

That’s a flawed design

[alpine wraith]

and dmg in dance

because CTW is uncapped....

you will have the m+ brains joining

HEY I SAW SUB DOES BIG DAM NOW

i also have to check if you can still game the 1 min proc trink

[rocky ocean]

People already tell me “damn sub pumps” and target me before dung like I’m from the red book

[vestal escarp]

Yeah the situation is weird

Cuz im constantly topping the weeklies im doing as sub, DS on top

The untrained eye might think the spec is great

[keen dome]

They need to stop being silly and give us THE BIG HIT feeling.

[worthy relic]

bring dfa back

[keen dome]

coup one big hit. sectec.. I guess one big hit I dunno shit wobbly

[vestal escarp]

buff flag

[vale pine]

haha^^

[swift tinsel]

Imagine if it was a finisher that scaled with mastery

same cooldown

[hot plaza]

what poisions are best for m+ please?

[spark tusk]

For sub? Just instant and mind numb probably

not really complicated decision for sub

[keen dome]

Ye. Instant and Mindnumbing.

[fathom adder]

you know what

DF s1 and 2 sub best sub

there i said it

[sullen hare]

outside of maybe giving us back a little more uptime on sblades, I actually kinda feel like sub is in a decent place right now

[fathom adder]

true, just memeing. But i liked it, thats also true

[tropic nimbus]

Miss the 1 dance build

[fallow nimbus]

Watch them include bp in dn someday

[kind bluff]

I rerolled sub a few weeks ag9 and am loving it.

[pliant topaz]

would be funny af if they do.

theyre all about the themes and design philosophy, but their designs are so garbage, they constantly have to go back on them

[vale pine]

atrophic + deathly posion always

[pliant topaz]

because gameplay of their designs is miserable

[vestal escarp]

where would mark go

you can use BP without target

[pliant topaz]

pretty sure if you cast an aoe ability without a target, the game auto targets something for oyu

[vestal escarp]

[void hound]

booo

[hazy breach]

#outlaw looking aahh comment

[fallow nimbus]

Nearest enemy like RS, the tech is there

[west arch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

total jank

[worn cape]

Why does it feel like every time I press flag, I get targeted by Phase Blades or Decimate on mythic Sikran? 😭

[pliant topaz]

reason? confirmation bias

[vestal escarp]

it works like that

[pliant topaz]

solution, u coulda kinda maybe wait out a jump, if u dont lose a cast

other solution, bitch at blizzard for making shit farm bosses. (my usual go to)

[worn cape]

I mean, if Phaseblades is about to happen I can hold for a few sec, but sometimes it happens in the middle of the burst window and I don't want to hold Flag for too long 🙃

[pliant topaz]

yep

[edgy zenith]

my guild's Sikran clear times are mega cursed and you only get 2 Flags, so you just send the second after that set of leaps that would fuck you

but if you get 3, it'll probably be pretty tight, so you might just wanna send insta no matter what

[fallow nimbus]

i wonder if IC bugs like RS if you get a big enough sample-size but i think we would have heard, so the tech can work

How hard can it be to copy IC, remove the stealth and garrote part? If it's 2 enemies, who cares, compensation for the buggy mess we have endured

[vestal escarp]

i meant total jank about getting the mark on a random enemy

[fallow nimbus]

if you have no target, i think, it's fair