subtlety

[alpine wraith]

well for sikran the mechanics have timers

[tribal blade]

so true!

[alpine wraith]

so kinda your fault if you krangle but yea it is annoying

[tribal blade]

sub might be the only spec in the game that wants vers/mast

[tulip token]

Yeah it would be on me for slamming cds during it. lol but still

[alpine wraith]

when i did it again on reclear after some time

it was annoying same with ky veza

[lilac stag]

I’d be fine on either. If one will help more with what we’re missing with CE window closing I’ll just play it

[tribal blade]

good point!

[lilac stag]

we won’t need platform dmg

we will likely be missing boss dmg

or shout

[tribal blade]

the 2nd worst buff to be missing behind skyfury

[vestal escarp]

Gm

[lilac stag]

I’d likely be arms if I’m leaving now the warrior

[vestal escarp]

Nothing?

Hmhm

https://tenor.com/view/grandpa-abe-exit-confused-bye-bart-gif-7694184

[lilac stag]

Gm

[keen dome]

Soon

[lilac stag]

It’s 3am blizzy time

[keen dome]

We'll get something when they've woken up and had some coffee and maybe an egg.

[vestal escarp]

Id cook bacon and eggs for the whole company every morning if it gave us sub dev notes

[keen dome]

Same, and it'd be the good kind of scrambly egg you get at fancy places

the one with way too much butter in it

[alpine wraith]

there is a bug where you fall through the floor

so at least there is something

they want to make us remember shadowstep and feel the weight of our choices

[lilac stag]

avocado toast. They’re in Cali

[keen dome]

egg can go on avocado toast but good point

[lilac stag]

Have you seen the prices of eggs?

One egg is like $12

they ain’t making egg money

[keen dome]

Damn

How much is an avocado

[lilac stag]

3 for $2

[keen dome]

avocado toast for everybody

[vale pine]

wouldn't mind a avocado toast

[lilac stag]

Sat I paid $6 for a dz basic eggs

[keen dome]

geez

[lilac stag]

Between bird flu and whatever else they’re through the roof price wise

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

eggs ended up as one of the extremes in the entire price hiking thats so common in the industry since covid

[keen dome]

Solution: pet chickens

Free* eggs daily. Also chickens make really good pets

[vestal escarp]

An egg 12 dollars

[lilac stag]

tbh I’m not sure what our new dictator is doing. Gas was supposed to go down as well as food. Everything just went up since Monday.

[keen dome]

I will send you a chicken

[lilac stag]

Oh. TikTok getting censored. That’s the primary objective right now.

[lilac stag]

Once we get to more farm like property, there will be chickens

[vale pine]

one country did that even, they asked who wanted chicken and gave them out for free

the local egg prices droped significantly because a lot of people took the deal

[tranquil stump]

hey guys, quck question, if i got 2 myth daggers from nerubar palace, regicide and blood-kissed kukri, is it worth to swap crafted weapon with embelishement for a crafted wrist+back both with versa embelishment buff?

[vale pine]

you can sim it but the absolute best setup iirc uses the embellishment on the off hand weapon

there are text files pinned in #tc-research you can copy/paste in top gear to add the crafted items

[tranquil stump]

alright, thanks!

[lilac stag]

Likely the 2x vers or focusing

have to play around with your crafted slots which is arguably more important than 2 embellishments.

it’ll all end up super minor in the end

[tranquil stump]

oh okay, well i had a hero back with wrong stats, so i was like thinking, that swapping the crafted weapon for a crafted back with versa would be a good choice

[lilac stag]

you’ll have to sim but yes a crafter cloak should be better

Do Crit emb if you’re playing assa

but again run the numbers

Usually set the crt/vers ones to 80% uptime

[tranquil stump]

oh nah, played sin before, but found it super boring haha, enjoying sub playstyle now, but i will sim it for sure, thank you

[foggy geode]

do I shadowstrike in aoe during dance?

[ancient kraken]

Maybe a dumb question. But how many rupture do we try to keep up. And when we use black powder over eviscerate?

[hazy breach]

Cast rupture outside of dance until every target thats gonna live like 10+ seconds have it

Bp is at 5 or more as trickster, 2 or more as deathstalker

[ancient kraken]

Okay thanks for the info

I was using evis because of the cleave thanks to trickster talent

[hazy breach]

As trickster yes

[gritty knot]

That's why I have my own chickens. 3-4 eggs a day from 5 chicken. I cant even eat them all and give many of them to my friends and Family tbh...

[alpine wraith]

they are fluffly

[gritty knot]

Ye super fluffy actually 😂 those are asian silk chicken. They never pecked me or my kids, u can cuddle them and pick them up. Perfect family chicken haha

[keen dome]

Hell yes silkies

I used to have four blackrock hens

They were amazing pets.

[alpine wraith]

some family had farms but i never had chickens really

they seem cool

[alpine wraith]

damn so they were in league with ragnaros

[gritty knot]

Honestly, every dog or cat u have to put more work in...the chicken meanwhile just live. U have to give them food, water. That's it. Clean the stall from time to time, give them some vegetables. It's no effort at all. But u have ur own eggs without any pharma shit. It's honestly super cool.

[lilac stag]

Chickens by us is the struggle of being prey

[vale pine]

thats nice

[left saffron]

could someone confirm me that when u are in dance in Deathstalker build you use another builder if you land at 5cp? its really akward to do

[alpine wraith]

you dont unless you have DN up

[left saffron]

so sending finisher at 5 is fine

except with Darkest night?

[alpine wraith]

does not happen that often but yea the diff is not big

[left saffron]

allright thanks! the times it happens i brain lag a moment as it was strange to maintain the 6cp+ rule

so its one thing less to think about ^^

[twilit phoenix]

Your chickens have the zoomer cut

Instead of clucking they run around and say bussin

[slate marlin]

am i stupid or does coup not give snd

[hazy breach]

It does not

[slate marlin]

alright i was so confused why i ended dungeons with not 100% uptime on snd

seems like a stupid thing to not implement but ill just track it

[hazy breach]

Ye its just a bug

[slate marlin]

at this point sub bugs are features

[hazy breach]

BP not giving it is dumb too

Both coup and bp should give it

So many quality of life fixes we could get, but were probably not gonna get

[slate marlin]

ye qol would be good, but tbf im having a lot of fun as sub

[sick jackal]

Yes

[slate marlin]

i fully swapped to sub for m+ and ive never had as much fun in wow

[hazy breach]

Ye sub is pretty good in dungeons

Feels good to absolutely demolish a boss

[slate marlin]

oh ye the st is rly nice, and all cds on a big pull with bp feels amazing

feels a bit weird when u have flag in 25 seconds and cant sent symbols/dance but its whatever

so far 3 15s timed as sub and many more to go cant complain

[solar ingot]

Give a charge of dance on flag or shadow blades smh

[slate marlin]

i wouldnt mind that being a capstone instead of goremaw

[hazy breach]

That type of effect is what i expected our tier set to be

But that doesnt work when all melees are supposed to have the same 2p

[slate marlin]

honestly i would rather have it forever rather than as burrowed power

[hazy breach]

Well ye, but were unlikely to get it to begin with anyway

We only get things that make sub more complicated

[slate marlin]

dreaming is free

they already "reworked" sub, they might as well finish it

[hazy breach]

Im afraid mages need more attention

[swift tinsel]

been waiting for that for a few seasons

[hazy breach]

No time for rogues

[swift tinsel]

we get a crumb of an update to our talents once every six months

[hollow spear]

to be fair, removing dust made the spec less complicated, no?

[keen dome]

We got our change for the patch: Coup lost it's murderous intent.

[swift tinsel]

I think it shifted the complication around just a little bit

It was only really complicated to figure out when to pull your cd's but once that was solved it was ez

[hazy breach]

Not really

[swift tinsel]

Now its a game of "how many sod/dance can I send to still have 2x of both for flag"

[hazy breach]

They just moved the complicated part to dance/symbols timings instead of flag/blades timings

Which is in some ways more complicated because its a lot more varied since our CP regen is rng and scales with targets

Its less spreadsheety though, ill agree with that

[swift tinsel]

Now we just need them to delete deathstalker

[crystal bone]

lets say u play both sub and sin very well

which one would u prog m ansurek with

if u did NOT have transmitter

[hazy breach]

Prob assa, but it genuinely doesnt matter much

All 3 rogue specs are fantastic in raid rn

2+1*

[crystal bone]

it just feels so bad with the target swapping

on sin

thought sub might perform better in that aspect

[azure mauve]

the only real sketchy target swap is at the end of the intermission going into the platforms

[hazy breach]

Yes but thats generally not the part of the fight where you need the most damage

[azure mauve]

other than that all the targets just die and you get darkest night

[crystal bone]

yea its just having to reapply the bleeds

idk it just doesnt feel as good but if its still fine overall then ill just keep goin as assa

the real damage check is platform 2 and im on gate duty anyway

[lilac stag]

Assa for all accounts is better boss dmg. Depends what your raid needs

[edgy zenith]

I think Sub is better for Ansurek prog. gets your guild past a lot of nice pain points during prog (platform 1, mini spiders in P3, roots if you need root dam)

and it's tankier

Sin is way better for farm though

[vale pine]

Diffrence matters less on the last 2 fights, i would play sub out of preference but both work

[crystal bone]

[lilac stag]

Assa also lets you not get your chain yanked by coup

[vague oar]

I'm gonna have nightmares of coup yanking me into web blades

[swift tinsel]

just be close

[lilac stag]

Careful that comment will get the mob after you.

[swift tinsel]

I'll just coup charge away

like spiderman

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-riot-pitchfork-torch-bikini-gif-5846528199736014419

[wintry heart]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wintry heart]

Does anyone have the CD usage graphic handy?

[lusty solar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[old venture]

this one?

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps#opener it's on @vale pine 's guide if you ever need it in the future

[vestal escarp]

better late than never ig

[twilit phoenix]

huge

[lucid jackal]

Any nutty ptr trinkets

[pliant topaz]

nothing that interesting for sub

[vestal escarp]

garboball

[haughty mural]

no 90sec

transmitter prison

[idle aurora]

So if this had been talked about I apologize but for season 2 if black powder has a chance to drop buff do we go back to evis?

To keep buff running longer

[uneven scarab]

Evis also has the chance to drop

[idle aurora]

Oh dang it reading is hard

Your right

[uneven scarab]

[idle aurora]

So just rupture always got it

I kid I kid

[swift tinsel]

outside of dance probably yeah

[idle aurora]

Just cast ruptures on everything?

[swift tinsel]

We gaming

truly blessed timeline

[uneven scarab]

It may be rupture only yeah

Not sure yet

[idle aurora]

:0

I weirdly don’t hate that

[swift tinsel]

Otherwise it'll likely be BP until flag has a certain cd left then switch to only rupture

but rupture gaming favors DS so I hate it

[idle aurora]

Like 19 seconds left or something

Random

[swift tinsel]

Probably similar to how we treat sectech atm

[idle aurora]

Yeah what I was thinking

[swift tinsel]

going into cd's with 3ish winning streak stacks

is okay

bc you'll very likely have 10 for 2nd sectech

[worthy relic]

will also prob push us into dark brew

[swift tinsel]

Hope not

that's a question for the robot tho

[pliant topaz]

right now its mostly feelcraft. once tiers implemented and we know what bugs we're playing around, we will start optimizing the APL for the tier

[steady timber]

assuming you need vanish to break root on queen do you open with shadowstrike into rupture?

[swift tinsel]

still doesn't reset on ptr so no way to know how it'll behave

[idle aurora]

I think either way I’m going to main sub it’s my new found love 😄

[pliant topaz]

snd > rupture

[swift tinsel]

was really hoping that part would be fixed this week so we can actually look

[idle aurora]

Just scary to just learn it and have to play around a crazy mechanic

[swift tinsel]

welcome to sub

[steady timber]

I see, thx!

[swift tinsel]

2 weeks of ptr and tier set still doesn't work

mages must be in shambles and getting the attention they deserve

[pliant topaz]

not uncommon

ptr usually a shitshow

but we do need it to somehwat function so we know wha tbehaviour koji needs to implement

[swift tinsel]

yeah, I have a few conditions I wanna check out to see how the reset works under the hood

[worthy relic]

wonder if coup de grace is intended to drop stacks. Well it prob is intended to drop them but i wonder if it actually will

[swift tinsel]

idk, it doesn't add snd duration so it might be coded separately

or might not

and is it per cast of coup or per hit

[worthy relic]

hey if it doesnt we have rupture + coup de grace gameplay

[swift tinsel]

same with bp

[pliant topaz]

my guess is its per hit, based on how it seems to work with finality

[swift tinsel]

and does shadowed finishers hit count too

[pliant topaz]

each hit is its own evis hit and procs evis related stuff (except snd)

[swift tinsel]

that's what I'm expecting too, yeah

[kind bluff]

If it doesn't reset on ptr are we just max stacks forever?

Lol

[pliant topaz]

which i think its because snd is directly tied to evis cast before cast goes off instead of evis procing it

[swift tinsel]

Atm yeah

I log in each evening to check if they did a sneaky fix

[kind bluff]

Sounds like a great bug. Less keep that one.

[swift tinsel]

but still perma

[pliant topaz]

they usually do fixes when they send an update on wowhead

[swift tinsel]

do you mean its from the button press vs the ability hit?

[worthy relic]

then blizz will nerf our base kit to put us in line instead of fixing the bug

[pliant topaz]

you can also get trackers that notice when theres a commit to ptr

[pliant topaz]

my guess on how they coded it

its a scripted mess

[swift tinsel]

ah yeah I have some bluepost tracking thing

ah that'd make sense

for the interactions that work vs ones that don't

[vale pine]

wow is just a very old game with a lot of old code that probably is rarely touched

[swift tinsel]

oh I'm sure

esp for the least-played spec

[vale pine]

thats not helping

the problem is actually a death spiral

[vestal escarp]

but coup has been this multihit mess since day one of alpha

[swift tinsel]

part of the charm

[vestal escarp]

and nobody bothered to see if this """cool""" spell interacted with everythign it should

[pliant topaz]

everytime i read this on azerothcore i laugh

really really hard

[pliant topaz]

they did. Day 1 it went live on ptr, i pointed out 5 bugs, 4 of them got fixed by next week

[vale pine]

you have a low time budget because of low play rate
->
bugs pile up because you have no time to fix them
->
Now, every time you need to fix something, you possibly need to fix bugs first
->
return to start

[pliant topaz]

realz specifically reached out to see why certain things were happening with it

not to me, but others

and they reached out ot me

[vestal escarp]

i see

[swift tinsel]

Miss that guy

don't blame him for staying away from the other rogue channels

but it was nice when he'd pop in and ask about how stuff was going with testing

[pliant topaz]

eh. I used to care, youll get over it too

[swift tinsel]

oh it's def slipping

[vale pine]

there is a diffrent problem now too

[pliant topaz]

a devs job isnt to interact with the community

only if they want to

[swift tinsel]

I think the past few weeks are the biggest break I've taken since legion

[vale pine]

blizz seemingly want to speed up content cycles

[pliant topaz]

but if the company specifically prohibits it, well then

[vale pine]

this comes at the cost of development time on specific detials

[swift tinsel]

and I don't see myself logging back in until at least a week or two before 11.1 goes live

[pliant topaz]

oh im unsubbing once plunderstorm goes away or maybe once i get bored of it

[swift tinsel]

and that depends on if I feel like raiding

[pliant topaz]

i already quit from the raid team

[swift tinsel]

I might be healing next tier which would be fun since that's what I used to do a longo time ago

mw is crazy fun in m+ and raid

I still think I'm the only max-level rogue in our guild atm lol

[uneven scarab]

Same

Dont think we have had a single one

no ones even alting one in the guild either lmao

[vale pine]

11.1 looks fine

[swift tinsel]

At one point there were 3 of us in DF but one quit and the other switched to ret

[vale pine]

i am not as hyped for it yet, but maybe seeing more of the bosses will start the hype

[swift tinsel]

The raid does look pretty fun so far, I'm considerably less excited for the m+ pool

[uneven scarab]

I mean the drifting stuff sounds really fun to me but i have quite the feeling itll be forgotten a month after its added

[swift tinsel]

gearing does not look fun or rewarding

[vale pine]

someone mentioned to me

wow basically steals ideas from guildwars

not saying thats a bad thing^^

[pliant topaz]

wow used to be good at stealing things and improving them

[uneven scarab]

i just wish they pick some systems and actually keep them

Like the renown thing with next raid tier

Sounds awesome

I hope they continue on with that

Give me rewards for killing bosses lmao

[vale pine]

It was not always about improving, but giving less reason to go to switch away from it

you see a lot of that in older xpacs

wotlk had the epic pvp battles, wod had housing, ...

[pliant topaz]

idk theres a lot of decisions being made that just confuse me with wow

[vale pine]

neither was improving on the competition, but sitll having a similar system within wow

[pliant topaz]

im not a game designer, so maybe im off, but as a player, least i can do is identify problems.

like some simple things, if gears not exciting, then games not exciting.

homogonizing gear, trinkets, special effect weapons just removes a major fun aspect of the game

but thats where theyve been going for a while

[vale pine]

I think its a general trend

not on wow

[pliant topaz]

whats a general trend?

[vale pine]

companies look for ways to reduce development effort

and a good way is to homogonize things

[pliant topaz]

idk if its reducing developement effort tbh

like league, reduced # of new champs they make per year

but theyre doing more visual rework

[vale pine]

having less things to fine tune and worry about is for companies good, and it is irrelevant for the end user if they stay with the game

[pliant topaz]

increased art load

champs being made are more involved, need more art budget, have more interactions, need more lore budget etc.

so its not just reduce dev resource

people are being moved to different projects, different games, etc.

some senior designers are working on the mmo when they were league champion designers

atleast from a few friends working at riot

[uneven scarab]

Blizzard devs barely last 6 months

before they are replaced

I think alot of it is core issues at management in blizz.

[pliant topaz]

idk about bliz or their developement enviorment

[vale pine]

I mean in the end, most streamers are very happy about the xpac and only recently started to complain a bit

[uneven scarab]

From every dev friend I have thats talked about blizz they never have anything good to say

[vale pine]

so blizz is doing something correct?

[uneven scarab]

I mean yeah

[pliant topaz]

i hard doubt that

[uneven scarab]

Theres stuff in undermine i can praise easily

[swift tinsel]

Idk about that, there's been consistent criticism of systems

from a lot of personalities

[uneven scarab]

But theres also alot to criticize

[pliant topaz]

before expac comes out, they were complaining about view counts. "no ones excited about the expac"

then they were complaining about lag/balance

then they were complaining about lack of content

then state of m+

like dorkis not even doign keys when hes offline anymore

its litearlly his job or he wouldnt be doing keys

u wanna know how i know?

this motherfucker is in every plunderstorm game in in

duoing with growl

[vale pine]

haha

[pliant topaz]

me and my duo are legit camping their ass they hate us

[vale pine]

to be fair, maybe he likes plunderstorm

[keen dome]

Aren't they practicing for the tournament atm?

[pliant topaz]

dont know

maybe?

its clearly not working cuz its a free win for me everyimt theyre in

[alpine wraith]

likely

[keen dome]

haha

[alpine wraith]

kek

[vale pine]

oh ye, maybe they get a official blizz tuornament again

[alpine wraith]

hey you can compete and lose

[keen dome]

Put armin in the tournament imo

[alpine wraith]

it is a creaters only touerney

for the luls

it is actually more entertaining if people are not super 420 MLG players

like watching a fortnite tourney makes the kids dizzy

[pliant topaz]

okay but last time they did it naguras team made me wanna backflip off a bridge

they were sooooo boring to watch

[alpine wraith]

yea also bad ahaha

but hey

[pliant topaz]

legit perma hide in a bush until storm comes

okay

[alpine wraith]

that is a strat zzzzzzzzz

[swift tinsel]

sometimes I forget she was a tryhard raider

[alpine wraith]

i mean we all were

but like 10+ years ago

[swift tinsel]

fair

[alpine wraith]

wow has been getting less hardcore but more optimized imo

[swift tinsel]

I'm still trying to figure out how Tettles has any following

literal king of cooked takes and boomkin qq

[keen dome]

huh, yeah. I guess that's a good way to put it.

No more being online 24/7 grinding and prepping and instead it's theory books

[uneven scarab]

Tbh i could say that for alot of creators

Lots of cooked takes

In this community

[vale pine]

The thing about positivity i mean was, i got a lot of the podcasts linekd to me and watched (most) a lot of them to discuss with a friend. Both podcast ended up very positive for a long time before slowly changing into a more critical tone.

[alpine wraith]

i mean in classic our guild had 7 teams and around 300 gatherers

in tbc those went down half almost

then wotlk not even 2 teams etc

[pliant topaz]

speaking of tettles, I saw a guy in my tft game named tettles

[swift tinsel]

The only bigger personalities I really put any faith in are probably Jak, Ellesmere

[pliant topaz]

bro contested chem baron with his own chem baron

went 8th

[uneven scarab]

Jak such a goat

[keen dome]

I think the general vibe of the expansion has been positive with it slowly falling off over time. Esp this late in the season and stuff just not really being addressed

[swift tinsel]

Megasett

[alpine wraith]

I WILL HIT TRUST

oh wait

[swift tinsel]

tend to be healers lol

[vital sage]

Are you supposed to pre use transmitter trinket before pulling

Grab buff before the actual pull

[uneven scarab]

Thing is about jak is he’s a healer main but he actually understands the other roles lmao

[swift tinsel]

you wanna get your buff as you sectech

[uneven scarab]

and doesnt just spew bs about them

[keen dome]

I've found it helps a lot, yeah. Popping it a second or two before pull so i know where it is, etc.

[alpine wraith]

no need to use transmitter before pull just use it after you strike

[swift tinsel]

based

[vital sage]

Word

Thanks homies

[uneven scarab]

Np big dawg

[keen dome]

Probably going to come down to how comfortable you find the approach. Long as it's up before the big hit, it's all good

[uneven scarab]

[swift tinsel]

Jak's vibe of "I'm not gonna be the one to sensationalize stuff bc theres no point" is a whole vibe

Jb is funny as fuck tho so I'll watch whatever he puts out

his tweets are god tier

[mystic ether]

Is there a way to get (non-kill) sims checked to know what I can improve? I'm on queen progress

[sacred path]

I macroed it to flag

[pliant topaz]

you can find a good log, and check your performance vs theirs up to before you wiped

see how they were doing until then, their cd usage etcetc

[vital sage]

Not a bad idea

[hollow spear]

Yeah jb is naturally funny

[vital sage]

I’m probably overthinking it but - is it safe to send flag + trinket/cds on the very first platform after intermission, if I’m assigned the very first set of portals? Or should I wait a bit

[untold flare]

Hi guys is Nightstalker absolutely not viable in m+?

[uneven scarab]

It’s definitely viable

Just feels worse to play compared to trickster

But you can absolutely play it no problem

[cyan lava]

if i have to choose learning sin or sub

which one do u think

[swift tinsel]

Sub is way cooler

[uneven scarab]

facts

[swift tinsel]

If you wanna be able to walk away from your computer between cooldowns you can play either

[cyan lava]

i main dk

so am used to it

[untold flare]

Why does it feel worse ?

[swift tinsel]

Darkest Night doesn't feel very good to play around, esp in AoE

[uneven scarab]

You sometimes have to use a full st spell even in mass aoe

And it gets much less cdr than trickster

but otherwise its fine

[swift tinsel]

full st finisher even

[alpine wraith]

you actually evade DN now in aoe some degen gameplay

[uneven scarab]

Peak spec design

[hollow spear]

what do we drop for TFD in M+?

[uneven scarab]

WM

[hollow spear]

ah yeah, makes sense

[uneven scarab]

Tfd goated

[swift tinsel]

I'm mentally blocking out that this exists lol

[alpine wraith]

it is likely to become better next patch too because extra shadow dmg

not looking forward to updating the guides with that

[swift tinsel]

barf

our RL has started asking about main choices

[lilac stag]

Havoc just as angry as rogues are. GGrealzGG

[alpine wraith]

but they are a team cant really bash 1 guy!

they are just chained

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[swift tinsel]

Havoc always angry

never quite recovered from being omegaturbobusted after 10.2 for a bit

new inertia does feel way worse without immo/afi trigger tho so I get it

[lilac stag]

nah

similar issues as rogue.l, though they’re getting some communication.

[swift tinsel]

meanwhile we're shouting into the abyss

well, murmuring now

[uneven scarab]

I truly feel bad for a couple of the melee specs

Theyre all shouting into an abyss

[lilac stag]

The best melee spec has the most range abilities. lol

[swift tinsel]

Idk my frustration comes from knowing they can communicate what they're doing, not doing, or planning but don't

bc other specs get that

[uneven scarab]

True

[uneven scarab]

Typical tbh

[swift tinsel]

so it comes across as a deliberate choice to stay silent

[lucid jackal]

Rogue is pretty fun rn thankfully

[swift tinsel]

which leads to feelings of being ignored

for the most part, yeah

[uneven scarab]

Yeah it is

[lucid jackal]

Like there are annoying pieces, and bugs but, every class has shit like this

Rogue might have more but its not pure upside on other calsses

Rogue feels pretty strong/fun rn imo

All 3 specs

[uneven scarab]

All 3 are great

[swift tinsel]

Tuning-wise and most of the gameplay, I'm happy

[uneven scarab]

What id really like to see is the communities perception of sub/law change

[swift tinsel]

I don't like what they've done with BP and how its affected trickster

[lilac stag]

Fun is subjective. Gameplay + bugs are well past degen at this point

[swift tinsel]

and the aoe DN cook

[lilac stag]

Visuals suck

[uneven scarab]

Visuals need love

[swift tinsel]

gameplay implications of between-cd finishers with s2 set

[keen dome]

Ky'veza visuals! They're right there!

[swift tinsel]

!!!

[uneven scarab]

Fr

[swift tinsel]

Exactly

easiest slam dunk on a Playskool hoop ever

[keen dome]

Give it to us. We've been very good this year so far!!

[lucid jackal]

Yeah fun is subjective but like

I'd say outlaw is my least fav rn, but all 3 rogue specs feel very fun to play

[swift tinsel]

Sin feels the exact same it has since forever but that's not a bad thing

[lilac stag]

Outlaw doesn’t exist in my world.

[swift tinsel]

Sub with supercharger + trickster + perception is solid

[lucid jackal]

And thats why u aren't a game designer

[keen dome]

Sub just needs a little attention, bugfixing, visuals and also posion toggle. It's fine, but it could be better. The big frustration is lack of any communication about the long-term bugginess. If they could just acknowledge them, communicate a bit. Real good times.

[swift tinsel]

Outlaw I haven't touched much

1000% my thoughts

"We're happy with how sub's tuning is currently, so we're shifting focus elsewhere. We're aware of bugs like Replicating Shadows and will address them in a future patch"

[lilac stag]

Deathstalker is trash levels on both specs

[swift tinsel]

don't tune us at all

just fix bugs

I'd be SO fucking happy with that

[keen dome]

Deathstalker isn't good, yeah. but that's less a sub-issue and more a hero talent issue, imo.

[swift tinsel]

DS doesn't exist to me so idc what they do to it lol

[lilac stag]

It’s a rogue issue. We’re talking rogue

[keen dome]

Posion toggle

[lucid jackal]

I like deathstalker for sin

I think for sub its a bit awkward in some spots

[uneven scarab]

I mean theyve reworked a couple hero trees multiple times

[lilac stag]

It’s trash on sub. It’s trash on assa.

[uneven scarab]

They CAN do it

[lucid jackal]

Remember when You said fun is subjective :)

[swift tinsel]

There's some very minor things they could do to DS to make it wayyyyyyy better

[uneven scarab]

i think its fine on assa

[swift tinsel]

gameplay wise

[keen dome]

Deathstalker could really benefit from another pass. Trickster is good, imo, esp with the coup change. Deathstalker was just half-baked to begin with and never got the time to be polished up.

And I think that'll come in time.

[swift tinsel]

DN - BP and Evisc

[lilac stag]

If juggling Dn is fun to you kudos!

[lucid jackal]

I enjoy getting the big DN proc

[uneven scarab]

Ya ya ya ya ya

[keen dome]

Deathstalker is really fun in PvP, I can give it that compliment.

[swift tinsel]

I don't think they'd ever intentionally let DN consume a Mark too

so I'm thinking it was a bug when it did way back when

[keen dome]

It wouldn't be hard to solve the major friction either. Let SecTec consume it too or something.

[uneven scarab]

coup feels better to press than dn does but neither really feel that great overall

[lucid jackal]

Coup = giga CDR

I like it for that

[swift tinsel]

Same

with supercharger

very nice

[uneven scarab]

Yeah thats like the only dopamine i get out of it

[swift tinsel]

plus the 10% cdr on sectech baseline

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's less what Coup does itself and more the CDR and how it's impacting the rest of our play.

It feels impactful because it has knockon effects. DN is just.. push Evis now I guess.

[uneven scarab]

I see dance cdr drop massively and make a pog face

[lucid jackal]

Sure but thats part of what makes coup coup right

[swift tinsel]

It makes the openers feel so much smoother than with DS

[lucid jackal]

It's like ret paladin with the templar hammers that proc whenever u press ur big hammer button

Empyrian hammers offer 0 gameplay but they do big damage

[swift tinsel]

that proc hammers so you can hammer when you hammer

[lucid jackal]

would be weird to ignore that kwim

[keen dome]

I think the damage is pretty whatever because of how it's setup. Sure, on a mechanical level it's absolutely doing damage, but because it's split over all those Eviserates.. no good "BIG DAM" feeling.

[lucid jackal]

valid

[uneven scarab]

yeah it being split hits kinda ruins the best part

[keen dome]

The CDR is just a whole lot more noticable and impactful feeling.

[uneven scarab]

for sure

[swift tinsel]

I'm totally cool with that bc the gameplay implications are there

press button - see cooldowns drop a bunch

[lilac stag]

Imagine coup having a visual you could actually see. Imagine anything having a visuall besides purple farts or green puke pools

[keen dome]

It would be better if it was a single big hit. A massive crit. See the big numbers.

[swift tinsel]

I love when you press your buttons and they cancel the previous attack animation

but that happens like 50 times in a row

so you just kinda chicken dance

and wave your arms

[keen dome]

Haha

[swift tinsel]

it looks so fucking stupid

[keen dome]

To go back to Ky'veza. You know the animation she does for the tank buster? Shove that on coup de grace

[lilac stag]

Zero visual feedback. GL getting dopamine hits.

[swift tinsel]

Lol we krumpin out here

[lilac stag]

Yay my cdr is up.

[keen dome]

Can't even get the dopamine hit off the BIG CRIT because it's segmented into different slices.

[lilac stag]

Big dopamine.

[keen dome]

Just gimme the big number blizzard.

[lilac stag]

[swift tinsel]

I like my dopamine charcuterie board

[uneven scarab]

Visuals could easily make the spec feel more impactful

[swift tinsel]

instead of 24oz steak

[keen dome]

We had this discussion the other day, and I still think visuals are the absolute biggest draw.

[uneven scarab]

Definitely

Fully agree thats the biggest thing

[swift tinsel]

Arms Demolish

[keen dome]

Paladin is such a good comparison with how visually engaging it is. Everything is flashy and blam and wowie. Also the whole class identity of the righteous holy warrior, etc, etc. But BIG SWORD EXPLOSION.

[lilac stag]

I shoot lightning out my ass as fury.

[swift tinsel]

Even execute animation

[keen dome]

Outlaw probably has the most flashy stuff out of all Rogue specs, and it's literally just a gun.

[swift tinsel]

huge overhead swing

[uneven scarab]

Thane warrior is really cool

With all the crackling thunder

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-jane-foster-mighty-thor-natalie-portman-marvel-gif-26172801

[uneven scarab]

why cant we just get purple stabs

[keen dome]

Yeah, Warriors have some stellar stuff this expansion. It's so cool

Also the Kyrian Spear looks rad

I have a major cooldown active right now: can you tell what it is?

[lilac stag]

Warriors have gameplay issues as well, at least the visuals are satisfying

[uneven scarab]

Warriors got blessed with visuals but got left behind with shit gameplay ya

[twilit phoenix]

is it really trolling to play Trickster instead of DS on a fight like Kyveza?

DS sub just feels so bad

[swift tinsel]

Nah trickster owns

[keen dome]

Them having such lackluster survivability continues to amaze and amuse me.

[uneven scarab]

no trickster is fine in st

[uneven scarab]

Tell me about it

[swift tinsel]

its a few % behind but worth it

[uneven scarab]

Playing arms feels like playing a fucking cloth character

It makes 0 sense

[keen dome]

It's reeeally obvious in PvP too. Oh, the guy popped Die by the Sword. Well he's fucking dead now.

[lilac stag]

Vers really needs to impact them more

[swift tinsel]

Lol right, if its not parryable you're boned

[keen dome]

Give warrior more survival shouts

[uneven scarab]

I think arms has the same issue as sub, where alot of there nodes in the spec tree are just dead in the water

[keen dome]

Too Angry To Die

[swift tinsel]

Oh you don't like Nerfed Into Oblivion Rallying Cry?

[alpine wraith]

arms also has the issue that 2 weak nodes in the middle of the tree are stronger than some capstones

[uneven scarab]

Yep

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely

[uneven scarab]

Arms has some dogass capstones too

[swift tinsel]

Hey they have slightly better Fatal Intent

kekw

[alpine wraith]

it actually got nerfed

[uneven scarab]

LOL

[swift tinsel]

lmao right its so bad

[alpine wraith]

used to be quite decent

[uneven scarab]

Its still better than fatal intent

Promise u that

[alpine wraith]

fatal intent they just missed some extra zeroes

happens you know indi company

not many devs

[uneven scarab]

issue with fatality is you had to play around it so much as arms

[swift tinsel]

They'll notice in a few more never

[uneven scarab]

and try to cheese it/ have it crit

Just felt bad

[alpine wraith]

well that was inkpod in the days too

was actually quite fun

[uneven scarab]

True yeah

[swift tinsel]

Imagine if they had MA for fatality

[keen dome]

To me, Arms will always be the "BIG CRITS for BIG BOYS" spec and that's what it should always aim to be.

[uneven scarab]

it still is pretty close to that

Even more so in undermine I beleive

[swift tinsel]

It just feels like weird iterations of Arms cobbled together

[keen dome]

they have big sword. Big sword should hit REALLY hard.

[uneven scarab]

I think theyre big exe in udermine

[uneven scarab]

Ye

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

New set pushes Overpower

which is never fun

[uneven scarab]

Df s3-4 it was fun

Tbh

Op sets suck ass

Ya

[swift tinsel]

they're too resource flooded atm

[uneven scarab]

not a fan

[swift tinsel]

so you just have tons of rage, tons of OP charges

[uneven scarab]

The other issue is dreadnaught is complete cheeks now

[swift tinsel]

^^

[uneven scarab]

So having an OP set is weird

[lilac stag]

The warrior tree side has pathing issues, but hopefully getting resolved

[swift tinsel]

Used to be so satisfying to send a bunch in SS

[uneven scarab]

dude it felt so good

When dn was strong

[alpine wraith]

ToM was so cool too

idk wtf happened to it

[swift tinsel]

100%, you had just tons of instant feedback

ToM gameplay was dope

[uneven scarab]

They made iftk better so i think it took over?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

[uneven scarab]

cuz it matches cs duration now instead of a set number

[swift tinsel]

which is weird bc you have infinite rage atm to stack ToM high

Oh weird

[uneven scarab]

Iftk is really good as well tbf

[swift tinsel]

but new set pushing OP means you'll never play ToM

[uneven scarab]

You can get alot of globals in cs with it

[swift tinsel]

for sure

[uneven scarab]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

they don't even play WB do they even in aoe

[uneven scarab]

I dont think so no

[swift tinsel]

just all cs all the time

weirdge

[uneven scarab]

Theyre like full prio play rn

I dont really like it

tbh

I wish id gotten a chance to play arms on court though

Probably feels really good

[lilac stag]

I had my warrior in since we were missing shout

Getting BS back up is the challenge

but it was chill overall

[uneven scarab]

Slayer?

[lilac stag]

stuck on red side and getting cdr fucked with is meh

[uneven scarab]

or colossus

[lilac stag]

Ye slayer

[uneven scarab]

ye cool

slayer actually feels pretty good for arms

[lilac stag]

I recrafted everything for arms. Had it for fury for keys

[uneven scarab]

although bladestorm feels like a year long sometimes on arms

[lilac stag]

Should be better if I’m needed again

fury in keys is so chill

[uneven scarab]

I played very little fury, havent really played it since bfa

[lilac stag]

and I generally don’t like fury

[uneven scarab]

Just been arms

I generally dont either

I used to main it too

[lilac stag]

yea arms is fine too, just better in non-pugs

[vale pine]

but playing arms means you are not playing fury

[uneven scarab]

but playing fury means you are not playing arms

[vale pine]

but but, i am a fury warrior and go boom boom boom!

[uneven scarab]

arms go boom in 1 big hit

[vale pine]

jokes aside, i think both are fun if you like the gameplay loop around it

[uneven scarab]

i def enjoy both

just tend to enjoy the slower paced ones more

[keen dome]

One big sword is cool

Two big swords is silly

Three is cool again

[uneven scarab]

LOL

okay zoro

[keen dome]

He doesn't have big swords

[uneven scarab]

well he has three tho

[keen dome]

Baby swords

Tiny. Weak.

[uneven scarab]

i mean theyre pretty big just not thick

[keen dome]

Now if you gave Godzilla three claymores

[uneven scarab]

like warrior swords

thats a cool image to imagine

[keen dome]

Dunno why he'd need them but it'd be cool

But just two? Weak

A single one would be cool again. It's the rule of three (swords)

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-yamato-takeru-utsuno-ikusagami-sword-solar-god-gif-23126891

[uneven scarab]

this guy hates even numbers

tbf i can think of alot of cool people with big swords but alot less dual wielding swords

[lilac stag]

Ahsoka

[uneven scarab]

shes not a bad one yeah

true

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/ahsoka-tano-clone-wars-star-gif-25950571

[keen dome]

She's cool

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/baylan-skoll-lightsaber-ray-stevenson-star-wars-ahsoka-gif-492232676785932379

[keen dome]

I typically dislike duel wielding unless it's daggers or something unique

[lilac stag]

Baylan (RIP Ray)

[keen dome]

Ray owned

[lilac stag]

He was so good in that role

[keen dome]

Yesh

Absolutely ruled

[lilac stag]

I like that his friend is taking over

The role

[uneven scarab]

so is general grievous uncool cuz he has 4?

[lilac stag]

grievous has his own charm

[keen dome]

Grevious is always cool

[uneven scarab]

id say so

[lilac stag]

Would be too much if overdone

[uneven scarab]

hes pretty badass

yeah

[keen dome]

Four is cool but only if it's a robot or a four armed alien

Or like Asura

[uneven scarab]

yeah makes sense

agreed

[lilac stag]

darksaber + pistol gets me going, yet I hate outlaw. Odd

[keen dome]

Mixed weapon types are cool dual wielding sctually

Cal in jedi survivor

[lilac stag]

man just need mandalorian as a rogue spec

[keen dome]

Hah

Dual glavies get a pass too but only if you are Lu Bu

[shell bramble]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tulip token]

Guys they nerfed barrage in plunderstorm, surely im cooked no?

[clear trail]

Hello you amazing sub rogue players I am here to ask if the playstyle from how it is right now is gonna charge much going into next season? Some of the bosses seem actually awful for outlaw and I'd rather die before playing sin again so I wanna practice sub a bit before next season

[tepid trellis]

nothing has changes

we have got 0 changes apart from coup not charging you anymore when used from outside of melee range

[clear trail]

God I love bein a rogue and seeing like 0 changes. Thank you for the response

[lilac stag]

tldr have fun playing Aaas next tier.

[clear trail]

I would rather uninstall the game then play sin again ngl

[tepid trellis]

shit's just up to tuning

[clear trail]

The st is just so boring I cant with it anymore LOL

[tepid trellis]

when they dont feel like fixing the spec

[clear trail]

Yeah

Feelsbadman

[lilac stag]

May want to reroll if you’re that strongly against assa

Or just play lost ark

[tepid trellis]

weelllllllllll

[clear trail]

I'm an outlaw main just some of the bosses are pain because bad uptime

[tepid trellis]

needing to change spec

[clear trail]

So I'd rather just play sub here n there on those bosses and go back to outlaw on the others

[tepid trellis]

based on spec performance only really matters at certain levels of gameplay

so its not like it matters for 99% of people

just a fcking "feels good" metric

"WAHOO IM PLAYING THE FOTM SPEC"

[clear trail]

I aint doing wf raiding or even hof so it doesnt really matter, just as long as I'm enjoying the game thats all I care about LOL

[tepid trellis]

as you should

based af opinion

personally i havent felt forced to swap spec since BFA

[clear trail]

Yeah, I dont feel forced or anything to swap either part of me just wants to try something different on a boss that seems not the most fun on my main spec

[tulip token]

Boys its over

16kill win into a 13 kill win to end it off! (RIP barrage but I never needed you anyways)

[molten citrus]

jesus christ

how many games is that lmao

[tulip token]

uhhh a lot

got 460k the first time around from grinding it late in the event. Got the rest since it came back to just now

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rocky ocean]

My bet would be that they fix sub tier so late that on release it turns out to be giga broken

and then they nerf spec by 10000%

[swift tinsel]

or it works and it kinda sucks to play

either gonna be DS for shadow damage amp or trickster for more dance uptime

maybe back to DB builds

[hazy breach]

The shadow damage is only during dance

[swift tinsel]

yep

[hazy breach]

So it shouldnt favor DS that much

[swift tinsel]

which would be the only time we're pressing evisc

[tribal blade]

trickster you get more dances right

also a bunch of damage shoved into dance as trickster

[swift tinsel]

I think you get 1 more dance per fight as trickster

depending on fight length

per 3 mins iirc

[hazy breach]

Ye its moreso to do with trickster having more of its damage tied to dances tro begin with

Like shadow damage is obviously a lot better on deathstalker, but dance damage is better on trickster

So i dont think it should shift massively, but again im just making shit up. Dont have any sims or exact math on it

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I'm really interested to see where the numbers settle once everything is implemented

[tribal blade]

i just realized you have to press evis to consume DN outside of dance

as DS

so you would have a chance at dropping stacks right

so then if you wanted to 100% keep stacks you would have to not consume DN

but then you drop mark

which is really bad

[hazy breach]

Not sure

Thats the type of stuff thats hard to know beforehand

But having a situation where you have to choose between two bad options sounds on brand for deathstalker

[pliant topaz]

jokes on you buddy. spam 4 cp ruptures

"peak design"

but also I think dance is a bit less good on DS, so you might just ignore tier fully as DS

[rocky ocean]

Are you asking for another 40% bp buff?

[swift tinsel]

If BP gets any more buffs I stg

[hazy breach]

Delete evis, only BP

./s

[swift tinsel]

Becomes only finisher

Still doesn’t work with DN

Cinema

BP dashes you to targets

Maybe I’ll cross over to the dark side and play outlaw

For the first time since sepulcher

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-baloongis-cat-nixly-weaky-repz-gif-25559792

[swift tinsel]

Maybe if they bring tornado trigger back

I don’t like crackshot tho so probably not

[teal prawn]

High quality

[spark tusk]

I'm sorry hbomberguy don't cancel me I got this image from @teal prawn pls have mercy

It's too good I love the little derpy foot

[tribal blade]

holy balls you're right

[swift tinsel]

Lmao right

I want that cat to be my cat

[tribal blade]

so calculate every backstab so you never go above 4

[teal prawn]

It’s a great gif I love it too

[swift tinsel]

Mine is not amused

[edgy zenith]

can you cloak the webs on rash?

[hazy breach]

It wont remove them no

But you'll take no damage

[edgy zenith]

so you'll still get webbed if you cloak and it hits you?

fcked up

i mean the web spray that stuns

not tethers

sry

i realized now there are like 14 webs in that fight

[stone robin]

does anyone know a good video guide for sub?

[twilit phoenix]

not really a guide, but stealthi has good vods of his mythic kills

https://www.youtube.com/@Stealthi

he has his action tracker on, so you can see what he's doing

[stone robin]

oh very nice thanks !!!

[alpine wraith]

i have made guides for almost everything in yt too the links are in an excel in my profile but you can also just go search for them. although checking the written ones could also be good they are updated

[twilit phoenix]

yee hachadino's excel sheet is insane

[stone robin]

very cool thanks!!

[keen dome]

Lovely orange.

[tribal blade]

dude i just told off trade chat to the point where they all stopped talking

incredible

the political talk on NA has gotten so bad

had to report someone today for using the f-word for gay people

and seems like i'm reporting someone for saying incredibly insensitive things in /2 on a weekly basis now

[keen dome]

It's getting worse in Europe, too. A lot more slur usage. it's very frustrating.

[tribal blade]

damn

[tulip gorge]

gamers using gamer words

nature is healing

[keen dome]

It has seen a spike since the US election. Certain people think they can use it now. It is frustrating, but they simply show their whole ass.

[tribal blade]

so i'm actually fine with slur usage in the joking aspect if people are doing it solely for humor and not to hurt anyone

but the way /2 does it is not ok lol

[tribal blade]

yeah sucks 😦

but i just wrote to them "there's no point in arguing politics in circles to people who won't change their minds over the internet, grow up"

and then after they bullied me a little

the conversation they were having stopped abruptly haha

[tulip gorge]

well yeah, because you take it seriously

[tribal blade]

i think sometimes people need sense knocked into them

they know deep down i'm right

[tulip gorge]

mate it's a video game

[keen dome]

The best solution is to make a note of their name, put them on ignore. And never, ever include them in anything you have power to include them in.

Let them rot.

[tribal blade]

yeah video games are an escape

not a soap box

[tulip gorge]

Imagine you're just hanging out with some boys and you're talking some shit. Then all of a sudden a stranger starts scolding you for being insensitive

that stranger is you

don't take shit so seriously

[keen dome]

Well, if they're being racist, or homophobic, or fascistic. Fuck 'em up.

[tulip gorge]

fascistic?

[tribal blade]

dude these people are not talking shit

in a friendly way

[keen dome]

Fascists

[tribal blade]

it's very aggressive

they're actually arguing

[tulip gorge]

ok but what does that mean, how does one act fascistic

[keen dome]

Well, typically, by acting like a fascist.

It's not that complex

[tulip gorge]

wow how enlightening

that's like saying homophobic is what a homophobe does

[keen dome]

Yes, a homophobe is someone who acts homophobic.

[tulip gorge]

ok and I am curious to know what does it mean to act fascistic

to you at least

because a lot of people nowadays use the word fascist improperly

[keen dome]

Well, typically using dogwhistles, stuff that's pretty obvious connected to extreme far-right rhetoric, etc. It's.. not that complex? If someone is doing shit a fascist would do, or say.

Or just out-and-out obvious shit which is becoming far more common.

[tulip gorge]

I was hoping for concrete examples, but oh well

what we are experiencing nowadays is the pendulum swinging back

[barren wolf]

idk it has been dialed down for me, maybe ive grown up or smth

so i dont engage in conversations with such people

or maybe games i play, or communities etc

[keen dome]

I've def been seeing more of a spike of certain slurs in trade, random content, etc. I think on average people are way better about it.

And communities (like this one) are really good at making it so people just can't throw them around. Removing the option, making it obvious it's not okay.

[tulip gorge]

with how old the wow playerbase is, the chat is quite civil compared to stuff like league of legends

[keen dome]

WoW has done a good job of, for a lot of hateful things, outright preventing you from sending the message.

Which is pretty cool

[tranquil stump]

nothing beats old COD lobbies

[tulip gorge]

does it actually prevent you from sending the message? I've never tried

[keen dome]

Yep

In multiple languages, it's really neat tech.

[barren wolf]

well since ive reduced my pugging by so much i think theres much bias in my experience

[keen dome]

Yeah, like. I think on average it's fine.

Because most people are sensible, normal human beings

[barren wolf]

but yea idk how it would increase more nowadays when it was so bad when i played cs/league

[tulip gorge]

as I said, I think it's simply because the playerbase is older

I don't think 30 year olds feel edgy saying the n word

[hollow spear]

It's not really about the n word imo. It's more about the classic dogwhistles and people feeling emboldened to use slurs against minorities.

[keen dome]

Precisely, yeah

That's a really good way to put it

And that's gotta be stamped out ASAP.

[hollow spear]

Had one guy in my guild constantly yapping about anything he didn't like being caused by DEI

[keen dome]

lmao, man

DEI is such a funny dogwhistle for them

[alpine wraith]

well it has made lots of problems but not everyone knows which ones

[hollow spear]

Pretty bad dogwhistle, even humans can hear it

[alpine wraith]

like the wow devs with sub

[keen dome]

I don't think DEI has anything to do with the state of Sub rogue

[hollow spear]

Yeah lol

[tulip gorge]

who knew that hiring not based on merit would make these hires be seen in a negative light

[hollow spear]

As if merit was the biggest reason for hires in the first place lmao

[vale pine]

think most companies did drop minority based hireing

[tulip gorge]

nowadays everyone drops DEI completely

[tulip gorge]

true, there is also nepotism

[keen dome]

I don't think most people understand what DEI is, and what the intitives were. They were still merit based - it's just they put preference on more diversity.

[hollow spear]

But I'm not going to argue with someone who's yapping about "the pendulum swinging in the other direction" tbh

[keen dome]

You didn't ignore merit through them at all. You just tried to create more inclusive and diverse workers. Like, that's a net benefit for any company.

[tulip gorge]

then continue living in the reddit bubble

[vale pine]

I don't think discussing it is that valuable because its inherently fairly political

[tulip gorge]

true

[hollow spear]

Yep, that's why

[tulip gorge]

especially in a sub rogue channel

so guys

sub rogue meta next season for sure right

[alpine wraith]

DS meta it is over

[hollow spear]

Cope

[barren wolf]

ill be there

(no i fucking wont, fuck pushing m+)

[keen dome]

Every season is Sub rogue season.

[tulip gorge]

like seriously speaking, what does sub lack at the moment that prevents it from being a top tier spec in m+

[keen dome]

because I refuse to play anything else

[tulip gorge]

is it just aoe?

[barren wolf]

yes

[keen dome]

Yeah

[barren wolf]

at the end of the day, its aoe

[keen dome]

Maybe a bit of utility, too? I dunno

[barren wolf]

best way of reducing time in key is dmg.
best way of increasing dmg is pulling more mobs

[tribal blade]

99% just overall dam

[tulip gorge]

blizzard: we heard you loud and clear, we're buffing black powder

[tribal blade]

most of M+ comes down to doing monster dam

no matter what the streamers say

[hollow spear]

It's also too much downtime

In keys with lots of small pulls, you're going to be shit

[tribal blade]

sin has a big advantage of being able to maintain very high aoe output even without using cds

[swift glacier]

noob question here. and hello. do we want a lil bit haste or we just stack vers/mastery?

[tulip gorge]

i feel like they will nerf that really bad

[tribal blade]

just aim for mostly vers+mast and you'll be good

[tribal blade]

i hope so tbh, it feels silly

[tulip gorge]

I don't know, I think it's cool you can do good damage outside your cds

[tribal blade]

i mostly want them to address sub's lack of damage outside of cds

[barren wolf]

i loved assa before df cause it didnt have an aoe cd...

(and bleeding was the gameplay)

FUCK BLADEFLURRIES STOP RUINING SPECS

[tulip gorge]

spatter doesn't have a cd though

honestly giving every rogue spec bladeflurry is dumb

let assa do aoe with bleeds, outlaw with bladeflurry and sub with black powder

what was wrong with that

[barren wolf]

the lack of prio that we now thrive of

(assa atleast)

but they can add prio through other means idk, add interactions

[tulip gorge]

does every spec need to have prio damage though

[barren wolf]

nope

[keen dome]

I wish they'd do more with our shadow clones instead of Nimble, actually

[tribal blade]

prio damage is very much a sub niche historically

[keen dome]

Enemies ruptured (up to 5) get all attacks repeated on them

[tribal blade]

very much so

in fact probably one of the specs that had the most funnel capabilities back in the day

so i think it makes sense for sub to have it

[barren wolf]

sub didnt have an aoe ability

ofc it did prio lol