subtlety

[lilac stag]

Or just craft a ring and be done with it

[hazy breach]

Sim usually wants a little bit of crit anyway

[lilac stag]

seriously overthinking it

[hollow spear]

But that doesn't feel like you're working for your deeps

[tepid trellis]

trickster doesent mind crit

[lilac stag]

don’t overwrite your delayed RS cps. That’s a bigger loss than any suboptimal gear

Welcome to sub key pushing. Rent-a-spec for 3 bosses.

fml

[hazy breach]

Pooling sht stacks and supercharger is way more important for bursting third boss than having 200 more vers

[amber thorn]

those are good tips too, thanks guys

ill already did pooling sht on third boss, but i gotta ask dont rly know much acronyms here, what are delayed RS cps?

[sacred path]

The refund maybe

[spark tusk]

He means shadowcraft Combo points being refunded. If you take Replicating shadows (RP - Talent on mid-right side), shadowcraft combo point refunds can be randomly delayed, which is a known (and very annoying) bug

[amber thorn]

ok so best way to avoid it is to not play talent or just not use rupture before burst?

[spark tusk]

In raid you can decide to not play the talent, that's a good way to avoid it

In M+ it is still strong to take it for the rupture cleave and damage

and it's not just casting rupture

It's any finisher

the bug exists for any finisher when you take the talent

Why is a rupture talent impacting non rupture finishers?

that's a great question

moving on

[amber thorn]

im probably playing sub only for last part of necrotic wake is it worth taking it there or just avoid it

two packs + 2 bosses

[spark tusk]

I'd defer to others on that specific situation. If you do take it, "avoiding" it means just delaying when you cast your finishers a bit to not waste combo points

[amber thorn]

ok so dont smash buttons too fast, wait till it refills do i get it right?

or second option just dont take talent

[spark tusk]

That's the idea but in this specific case for those packs and bosses I can't speak to

[amber thorn]

ok, one more question, what would you take if u decide to not play the talent? shadow focus?

[vale pine]

for mythic+.
Weaponmaster probably, shadow focus seems fine too

[amber thorn]

i played this for M+ till now so already got weaponmaster

[vale pine]

then go with the first dance

its a very good talent

[amber thorn]

yes it is but not for my situation i think, ill rly play it only for NW last part or even there its best? 2 packs + 2last bosses

[hazy breach]

Its especially good for that

Or rather, the alternatives all suck

[amber thorn]

if i think more of that ur right, first dance is used for third boss burn so its great to have it longer, also probably first dance would be nice for last boss too, even between those pack spawns

[hazy breach]

Like on pure ST the fight needs to be like 3 minutes for weaponmaster to be better than first dance

[lilac stag]

That talent is almost a better choice in a single 5 minute raid fight. TFD is incredibly strong

[hazy breach]

But on a fight like third boss nw its way better

[amber thorn]

yep i get you, also, i thinking more about, just dropping RS for first dance and keep weaponmaster also, rather than keeping RS and have this bug, or you suggest to play RS + first dance rather weapon + first dance?

[lilac stag]

RS is better. Just learn to play with it.

[hazy breach]

Its prob about the same either way

RS should be better without the bug, but it is what it is

Surely this really annoying and terrible feeling bug gets fixed after 14 months

[lilac stag]

You mean by 12.1

[patent crystal]

surely it gets fixed

[vale pine]

[hazy breach]

Ye thats what i thought during 10.2 ptr too

[alpine wraith]

any day now

[latent finch]

sry to ask the first thing i understand but do we use symbols in advace to get some sc stacks or just safe all symbols?

[hazy breach]

As much as possible

Like if you can squeeze out a symbols beforehand for 2 more supercharged cps why not

But it depends a bit on the timing of the guy before and your cleavers

Ideally though you open on the boss jumping down with 14 sht stacks and 2 supercharged cps already

[latent finch]

thanks for the clarification and just to have it said cleavers and mc sucks

[hazy breach]

Yes absolutely blows

That they havent removed it for all of the season

But it is what it is

[latent finch]

At least i dont need to play it I imagine priest even dislike it even more

[swift tinsel]

@tepid trellis is it hard to get back into Lost Ark after not playing in a couple years?

[tepid trellis]

not that bad

they basically give you a "free" 1640 character

[swift tinsel]

Oh sweet

[tepid trellis]

which can do every apart from the newest raid

[swift tinsel]

I played a ton when it hit NA a couple years ago but haven't touched it since probably 2022 or so

think I have a scrapper and bard

now there's like double the advance classes lol

[tepid trellis]

power level between a 1640 and a 1660 is quite fcking big tho

[swift tinsel]

I'll have to reaquaint myself with all the power systems since I very vaguely remember how they all work

I think I mostly did the chaos rift things

[tepid trellis]

yeah there is alot now

[swift tinsel]

is it Maxroll that has all the builds and whatnot?

[tepid trellis]

for classes?

no

Lost ark nexus

for that

[short radish]

wait does this mean on a bossfight thats like 2 minutes (aka some farm stuff), TFD > WM?

[hazy breach]

Generally yes

[short radish]

noted

[sacred path]

!specs

!spec

[wicked jolt]

All Specs are good and have niches and strengths that they play to. All three specs are looking viable with Assassination/Subtlety being preferred in raids. Mythic+ meta has not solidified yet but Assassination looked promising during beta.

Be aware that Simulations are a tool to be used to compare things like talents/gear/rotations, they are not the definite answer to what is meta or not meta. While outlaw is ahead in sims right now, especially dungeonslice, you have to take a step back and realize these are synthetic/generic situations that we use as a baseline. Dungeonslice has always been a great showing for outlaw simply due to the fight style matching well with the spec. This is not unusual or unheard of.

You can view logs of the raid when it comes out Here, or view the mythic+ run leaderboard Here.

[sacred path]

damn trickster has 1 hr tricks

should have just picked that instead of starting on the deathblade

[kind bluff]

Just click off tricks in nw last boss, or stun the add.

[sullen hare]

Yeah you get to chill out in town with the ol gnomish army knife just doing its thing

[subtle zodiac]

if i have 580 daggers but got a 626 kyvezza fist wep would it be uber troll to use it in offhand?

[swift tinsel]

Yes

[hazy breach]

You can sim it, but pretty much any dagger thats able to use this expansions enchant is going to be better than a nondagger

Iirc even a lvl 1 dagger (if it could use current enchants) sim higher

[subtle zodiac]

hmm alrighty sounds good

thanks!

[tribal blade]

i thought this was gonna be game breaking in M+

but turns out it's barely useful

[summer mica]

and even bugged to this point in some dungeons, NW for example

[tribal blade]

to be fair that's not a bug, but yeah it's a horrible interaction

[alpine wraith]

aoe blind is always better yea

[left saffron]

Good morning everyone! could i post a log for some reviewing? its m+ one from dawn and i started a couple days ago so it could be messy. Would be nice to be set in the right direction by someone more skilled ^^

[vale pine]

you can do !log and post it there, unsure if someone has time to look at it atm but there is a chance

[left saffron]

Thank you! ill leave it here then + can always do later too
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mypZfQBHCrGXwvnb?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=3

[vale pine]

you need to type !log it opens a thread for it

[left saffron]

!log

oh

[left saffron]

thanks! didnt get it immediatly xD

@vale pine can i ask you abour Coup de grace? im following your guide and its the more unsettling thing to track. On the guide it tells to use black powder for up to 25 sec if you have shadow blades coming up. am i "spamming" black powder a whooping 25 sec just to align coup with black blades, dance and symbols ?

[drowsy moon]

Symbols no

[vale pine]

oh,thats an optimization you don't need to do anymore

[drowsy moon]

U wanna cast it with symbols it's coming soon

[vale pine]

you essentially never use BP on single target anymore

[drowsy moon]

Oh

[vale pine]

it is just not that much of a win anymore

its not bad

but extra effort you don't need to do

the rotation is basically all around secret techniques cooldown

[left saffron]

but i want to allign it with fazed-dance if i wait like what? 10 sec or more?

[vale pine]

you always want fazed up for coup

[drowsy moon]

Do u usually dance 4 times and symbols 5 times before next blades

[vale pine]

think of it like this

[alpine wraith]

you cant always do that only first 1 min and 30

[vale pine]

you have your big cooldowns, you symbols, dance and secret 2 times

[alpine wraith]

afterwards things become slower

[vale pine]

and betweent you big cooldowns you just use symbols/dance around secret techniques cooldown

[drowsy moon]

Yes

[vale pine]

only time you need to think about the use is close to getting your big cooldowns up

because you want 2x symbols and 2x dance during them

[drowsy moon]

Okay okay

[vale pine]

so you sometimes need to hold cooldowns there

[left saffron]

That i got it. just making a WA to keep track of it ;o Do you coup 1st or second during dance? do i mind?

[drowsy moon]

U mean during blades or during flag or both

[vale pine]

you secret first usually

[left saffron]

wasnt sure cuz its a 15% increase for sectec from flawless

[vale pine]

both kind of

[drowsy moon]

Ye I got it

[vale pine]

e.g. you typically use blades later

[drowsy moon]

Yeye after first sectech

After flagg

[vale pine]

also if you want to rly min max

[drowsy moon]

🤔

[vale pine]

you can use cold blood on your 2nd secret tehcnique

during your burst phase

[drowsy moon]

Oh

[vale pine]

it is marginal better to do so

but

its complicated to play

[drowsy moon]

I have to work on fundamentals before thst sadly

Wait do u keep track of faze

[vale pine]

ye i mean

[drowsy moon]

I was just slamming stuff

Around sectech

🤔

[vale pine]

what i mentioned is something i would not recommend anyone doing unless they rly need the extra .x% dps

[drowsy moon]

Yes yes

But eh

Do I think about having fazed up

[vale pine]

personally think just macroing secret + cold blood is the best 99% of the time

[drowsy moon]

For sec tech or the improved evis

[vale pine]

you don't think about fazed rly, its up almost always

[drowsy moon]

Ye

Oka oka

!stats

[wicked jolt]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Mastery >= Versatility > Critical Strike > Haste

[drowsy moon]

Is there such thing as having too little vers

Or does it cope and skill issue

I would assume latter

[keen dome]

More is betterer but it's probably not as big an impact as just getting comfy with playing the spec.

[drowsy moon]

Yeh

[left saffron]

just seen disorienting strike talent. Makes sense to sectec first to get unseen blades back up faster again. or i guess thats the main reason
thanks for the inputs btw

👍🏻

[vale pine]

[drowsy moon]

Is there a scenario where u black powder as trickster

Below 7 target

[hazy breach]

5 or more

[drowsy moon]

Do I do it once in dance

[hazy breach]

Instead of eviscerate

[drowsy moon]

[hazy breach]

Technically worth doing it once in dance on 4 too

Goofy ass tuning

[alpine wraith]

yea just remember to storm at least once with second charge of rotten

because we are a clunky spec fw exists

[vestal escarp]

DS aoe gameplay > BP on trickster

[alpine wraith]

oh no

[vestal escarp]

Sorry not sorry

[alpine wraith]

DS aoe gameplay is worse now

having to strike if there is 1 mark to get ctw on another target

is peak CBT

[hazy breach]

Idk probably better to just recommend people to evis all the time because the storm stuff is complicated

And without that its not worth to BP

[alpine wraith]

true

[hazy breach]

Idk

[alpine wraith]

i just added as a *

[vestal escarp]

I physically cringe delaying coup in opener to press storm

[alpine wraith]

people kinda like to min max sometimes

[left saffron]

what is complicated?

[vestal escarp]

And getting fucked with flawless stacks

[left saffron]

legit question. just working my head around m+ rotations

[hazy breach]

You need to storm with rotten to apply fw

But storm consumes both stacks

[alpine wraith]

so has to be on second stack ye

[hazy breach]

So you need to do it on the second

Since you want to strike otherwise

[vestal escarp]

Which is a builder after sectech, so you're not benefitting of the UB reset

[hazy breach]

So every dance needs to be exactly strike>sectech>storm>BP

And If you get shadowcraft refunds before the storm it feels bad

[foggy geode]

As someone new to rogue I'm having such a hard time learnin the abbreviations

And trying to make sense

[alpine wraith]

we have lots of SS

so best bet is just saying storm or strike

[hazy breach]

Idk

[left saffron]

Thanks u opened another optimization up for me!

[hazy breach]

Specs complicated enough with cd timings

[left saffron]

didnt think about that yet

[alpine wraith]

yea if you shadowcraft after sec tech you evis

[hazy breach]

Idk why we need to have super exact combos too

[alpine wraith]

because no fw is no happy

we are the king of krangle

i have not seen any spec coming close

[vestal escarp]

If sub is the go to spec this season it will surely highlight the insane friction

[hazy breach]

Im sure people will be delighted for another tier of transmitter

[vestal escarp]

[alpine wraith]

people always find ways to play assa

the hate for sub is deep

even when it is better it has to be way way better

and it is understandable

imagine a new player to the spec

[hazy breach]

Well assa makes sense

[alpine wraith]

yea assa has cds builders and finishers

and things that work with those

sub has spaget

[hazy breach]

You can read the spells and talents and get 85% there by intuition

[vestal escarp]

Sure, i also think assa is past the days of being a bad pick

[hazy breach]

Gl even getting to 50% as sub

[alpine wraith]

most people just spam dances and run out

then wonder wtf happened

to their dps

[vestal escarp]

Hey

When pillar of frost is up i press

Wdym

[alpine wraith]

WAKE OF THE ASHES

I GET WINGS

I USE FINISHER

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

meanwhile sub

[vestal escarp]

When eyebeam is up i backflip and press

[alpine wraith]

AH FUCK i pressed sec tech

and flag is in 20 secs

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaAaaAAaaaaaaaaaaa

or ah i used coup with no fazed

or whoops used an evis with no fw

tehe

[vestal escarp]

Sin tier will get fixed and sub will remain a hobby for 5 circlejerkers

[alpine wraith]

we can make a bingo on how many things will work with tier

wonder if we can even get points

any image editing savy people?

i petition to make the DS square say DS slop

[jovial prairie]

Elon's favourite spec

[vale pine]

did not see that one comming ^^

[lilac stag]

You’re just missing the 35% buff to BP

[vestal escarp]

I hope we're not gonna see bp tuning until end of last titan

[tulip gorge]

Do you hate doing aoe damage that much

[vestal escarp]

I hate that my aoe finisher is as strong as my St finisher

[tulip gorge]

Just buff eviscerate, remove nimble flurry

[keen dome]

Nooo not my flurry

I like my dumb blade flurry

[tulip gorge]

Sub has no business having bladeflurry anyway

[keen dome]

can't they take something else instead

like uh, the coup charge

[vestal escarp]

Now thats aoe dmg hate

[drowsy moon]

They should make shadow blades permanent

[keen dome]

Roll it into Dance

[drowsy moon]

Nono

Just press once

Active foroever

[vestal escarp]

Woudlnt matter cause storm into bp (with relentless strikes) is energy negative

[lilac stag]

Go away

[drowsy moon]

Infite blades also gives u adrenaline rush

[vestal escarp]

[leaden prairie]

Sec tech should reset inside dance

And have a chance to refund the cp spent

Also be ranged and make a gun sound maybe

[vestal escarp]

Wait

[drowsy moon]

Sectech has %50 chance to reset snd recast it self

[lilac stag]

and have a machine gun animation.

[drowsy moon]

For free

[vestal escarp]

I cooked sectech crackshot in 10.2

[drowsy moon]

[vestal escarp]

Lemme find the message

[leaden prairie]

You were cooked you mean

[lilac stag]

I actually remember that

[drowsy moon]

What if

We had shadow mark as sub

Double cast finishers

On marked target

[lilac stag]

if it’s shadow, it’s not doing dmg

You must be new here

[vestal escarp]

At 4 different marks on your target you activate delirium

[drowsy moon]

I am new yes

I am also bullshiting my ideas

[lilac stag]

you were good until you said shadow

[drowsy moon]

What does delirium do

It's just in the name

[bronze turret]

Summarize Sub kind

[drowsy moon]

Oh

What if

Blades also give u %100 crit chance and damage

Crit damage

[lilac stag]

@bronze turret what are you playing these days, or just focused on work?

[bronze turret]

Nothing ye

Just peaking into sub to see updates, usually empty

[keen dome]

let us fusion dance rogue specs and have them play like cho'gall in heroes

[bronze turret]

Assa + Sub = Assa.. And Sub…

What a fusion

[keen dome]

perfection

[lilac stag]

just move Sectech to Assa

Make it nature dmg

[keen dome]

Nooo, not my clones

[lilac stag]

Rogue fixed

[vestal escarp]

And give them the trickster tree

[bronze turret]

Rogue is in purgatory right

Not worth spending dev hours on

[vestal escarp]

Sin is

Sub is in hell

[lilac stag]

kinda feels like it’s always purgatory.

Get a bone for 2 weeks

Every 3 expansions

[bronze turret]

Meanwhile mage, druid and hunter get a rework every other patch

[lilac stag]

Holy Pali is reworked 3 times every patch

[vestal escarp]

Every patch*

[keen dome]

More a Sisyphean experience.

[bronze turret]

Happens when the game is devved based on max profit and not out of passion. Most played classes get far more attention

[vague oar]

Feel like rogues problems are our numbers are always good so people don't realize we have issues

[lilac stag]

I’d be curious if rogue numbers would go up if they touched nothing but added like 3-4 visuals

[keen dome]

I'm slowly convincing people to play Sub. I'll get us there.

[bronze turret]

They come over for a few hours

[tulip gorge]

Do you really want fotm players playing your spec tho

[lilac stag]

Hahah

No one plays this spec

[bronze turret]

Its not just about sub, rogue numbers have always been low

[lilac stag]

Getting any eyes on it would be a positive

People in general don’t like rogue. The gameplay, the skill entry point, the lack of anything pretty to look at.

[bronze turret]

Its disproportionately represented in high m+ cus its been the goto class in the past. But i assume thats fleeting/dwindling down now

[lilac stag]

Ye

why play rogue, just roll tank and life gets better

[tulip gorge]

Do you really want the class to be dumbed down for the average ret paladin player?

[lilac stag]

Enjoy outlaw apm? Find appropriate apm tank

[old venture]

Just say prot pally it’s okay

[keen dome]

I don't think that's really the core of it anyway. Rogue isn't that complex.

It's just not flashy. It's not inviting. It's not interesting to a lot of players.

[lilac stag]

There’s a difference of dumbing down and gatekeeping so much that only the people that have played this spec consistently for multiple expansion can figure out all the inner workings

[keen dome]

Paladin is flashy

[tulip gorge]

Compared to other classes it is

They already ruined unholy dk by dumbing it down, I don’t want them to ruin rogue too

[lilac stag]

uh was just cast sequence your opener

and your can’t really ruin something that’s already ruined.

[keen dome]

I'd just say that rogue has a learning curve. Once you learn the rules, it isn't complex at all.

[bronze turret]

I think the complete lack of pretty visuals is what keeps the numbers down. Not complexity. The vast majority of hunters are girls who just send pet and talk to their twitch chat. You can just auto attack as a rogue and get similar experience

[lilac stag]

play numbers can’t get much lower for sub in mythic

[vale pine]

It is interessting because rogue archetypes are always within the higher player numbers in rpgs

its just mmorpgs where rogue seems to not appeal design wise

[bronze turret]

Cus those games have stealth mechanics

[keen dome]

I think visuals and theme. Paladin is a good example 'cos. Mighty warrior, big glowy buttons and glowing light.

Warrior has it too and it isn't very visually impressive. But theme!

[lilac stag]

our big visual is shitting out a green poison splatter

[keen dome]

Rogue is confused.

[drowsy moon]

I mean arcane is pretty flashy I don't think arcane mage is popular

[lilac stag]

People love arcane

Mages just play what’s best then bitch

[drowsy moon]

[bronze turret]

Stealth is a cool mechanic in most games

It’s just a stance in wow

[vestal escarp]

Cause wow combat is single encounter focused

[drowsy moon]

Idk if u didn't get half gold with pick pocket maybe it could have been more fun for stealth

[vestal escarp]

The stealth component serves poorly into party gameplay

[drowsy moon]

Pickpocket is such a cool thing

[keen dome]

Shadow Dance is a more interesting use of stealth conceptually. Imagine if it was a stance.

[bronze turret]

Ye I mean it makes senses. Just a counter to the point fuu made that other games have popular rogue archetypes

[keen dome]

Outlaw is probably the closest to an appealing and well executed thematic style. It even has the best visuals (gun)

[vestal escarp]

And most rpgs with stealth and surpise attacks mechanics make you lose the benefits once combat has started

[drowsy moon]

U can make sub flashy tho

[lilac stag]

Deathstalker on Assa explains how detailed oriented our design is with stealth.

[drowsy moon]

They just don't

[old venture]

Don’t worry, any day now the pickpocketable buffs for crimson vial that they announced for shadowlands at blizzcon 6 years ago are going to get implemented any day now

[bronze turret]

You can yes

[drowsy moon]

I think dance and sectsch could be way more cool

[keen dome]

🙏

[drowsy moon]

Effect wise

[old venture]

SURELY they wouldn’t announce something at blizzcon and never implement it

[drowsy moon]

And also the gloomblade

[old venture]

Right guys?

[lilac stag]

Never

[keen dome]

Just slap ky'veza animations on sub

job done

[bronze turret]

Remember dance studio

[lilac stag]

@old venture I ran 4 keys last night. And had fun.

[bronze turret]

It was even on the wotlk physical copy box

[vestal escarp]

You just cant, nobody is gonna give you the money to do anything on sub

[old venture]

Any day now

[keen dome]

submitting an application to blizzard right now

[old venture]

~13 years later

[bronze turret]

Ez

[fallow nimbus]

On ptr we fully lost the coup visual now

[old venture]

Tanking keys?

[lilac stag]

player housing going to be a physical copy of the game with a balsa wood housing model included.

[vestal escarp]

Lmao imagine if we had to self fund our spec development

[old venture]

I actually really enjoy tanking keys

[lilac stag]

Fury with Prohpet and one of his guildies.

[keen dome]

I mean we only ever saw it if it was trying to kill us

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

[lilac stag]

Looking like fucking Thor running around is very satisfying.

[bronze turret]

Nah it’s going to be a room with predetermined spots for every different object you can use. No room for creativity

[old venture]

Oh, well I’m glad you’re having fun again. Wow gets really rough if you’re not finding joy in it

[keen dome]

okay but

this owns??

they should do it

[lilac stag]

that’s all you get

Nothing in game

[keen dome]

I'm down

gimme a cool house kit

[bronze turret]

You can put trophies into this trophy container. Trophies can be bought monthly from the coin vendor

Exactly what it will be

[keen dome]

I'm expecting it to be that, yeah. basically lotro (or ESO) style

but who knows.

or SWTOR style

[lilac stag]

FYI what you main dictates how fancy your decor is. Rogue gets no visual decor. Just shadows.

[keen dome]

no we get a sewer

[bronze turret]

I don’t think wow can do much more

[bronze turret]

Dust and spider webs

[lilac stag]

maybe a cracked vial

[keen dome]

They reportedly have an entire team working on just this feature and have been for ages

but I don't remember where I saw that

[lilac stag]

Same team working on rogue

[bronze turret]

They did that for overwatch too

[keen dome]

Maybe it's the Spyro people.

[bronze turret]

The blizzard quality (TM)

[lilac stag]

I miss your sarcasm in here push.

[bronze turret]

You mean unlimited bitterness about a game I once loved 😂

[lilac stag]

you escaped though. I’m still tethered to a guild I enjoy. Hahah

[keen dome]

Unlimited Bitterness would be a pretty good guild name

[bronze turret]

I bet I would still love the game if I was in my early 20s, legit

[haughty mural]

[old venture]

I went on my quarterly rant last week 😂

[lilac stag]

wait I missed it?

wtf

[bronze turret]

Gotta empty that vile Blizzard bile every now and then

[old venture]

Nah just the usual mad at the fact that this billion dollar company puts in half assed effort

[haughty mural]

based

[bronze turret]

Cus they noticed it doesn’t matter

No more, no less players play the game

[old venture]

Yeah I don’t blame them, people still sub and play

Why dump more resources into it

[bronze turret]

It took a real company like Microsoft to realize it

To our detriment

[lilac stag]

right now I’m on bears football offseason

surely 11.2.5 saves rogue

[sacred path]

The perspective is so funny of someone who's played consistently vs someone like myself who played classic only and just recently made the leap

[haughty mural]

condolences

[sacred path]

I get the benefit of seeing 12 years of development and retail is like a wonderland to me lol

[lilac stag]

Nah. They’re winning the offseason.

It’s actually amazing

[haughty mural]

true new hc is massive

[lilac stag]

they are doing non Bears things.

Like us wanting blizzard to not do blizzard things

[haughty mural]

i really really thought they would miss him

[lilac stag]

they hired him over zoom

Get fucked everyone else

[haughty mural]

[bronze turret]

I mean classic is a big reason why retail is seeing less focus. They noticed that they can just rehash old shit with little effort, spice it up a bit. And that old game will overtake new shit

[keen dome]

I don't like that I agree with that sentiment but I do 😦

[lilac stag]

I wonder how many could come back for WoD Classic

[haughty mural]

yea and now classic andys ruining the MM rework

[sacred path]

I would never be able to play classic again after a couple months of retail

[lilac stag]

WoD had some peak class design

[bronze turret]

You will, after like 5 years of retail

But rn ur just a blueberry lost in a bush of wonder

[sacred path]

My mmorpg experience was eq on release, then wow then nothing

And classic was more of that

[bronze turret]

An og

[sacred path]

Then retail is like an actual game

[lilac stag]

you missed DAoC

That’s sad

[sacred path]

Played some daoc as well lol

[lilac stag]

I am sad for you

[bronze turret]

When my kid is able to play wow I might come back to it. So like 9 years into the future

[sacred path]

And dipped a toe into eq 2

But that wasn't great

[wraith sphinx]

Get hyped for Everquest Next

Anyday now

[lilac stag]

DAoC RvR is still my 🐐

[bronze turret]

Actually playing swtor on the side now. It has loads of content out the bat and if ur born in the early 90s, you probably love Star Wars

[sacred path]

All of them had similar sort of pacing and combat to classic wow though

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, SWTOR

[bronze turret]

Its worth wasting a few hours on

[keen dome]

Love me some SWTOR. I played it at launch and keep going back every now and then. Super interesting how they dropped trying to chase WoW and went "What if we just make a fully story MMO"

And it didn'tr eally work but it was interesting.

[bronze turret]

Haha yep

I am quite sure it’s dead now, ish

[keen dome]

It is

[bronze turret]

But theres content to play for like 300 hours ish?

If you haven’t touched it

[keen dome]

They gave it to the company that keeps MMO's on life support

[bronze turret]

Broadsword yep

[keen dome]

Yeah

[haughty mural]

i had high hopes when they switched servers last year

[keen dome]

Which, honestly, I think is a really good choice. Broadsword are great at preseving and keeping it going, but I think it's pretty much 'done' as a game

Esp as there's rumors of a new SW MMO being made under EA.

[bronze turret]

Oh no

[keen dome]

Which, you know. Second times the charm.

[haughty mural]

and they wanted to adress the limited frame rates

[bronze turret]

EA and Disney

[haughty mural]

but it didnt work out

but story is chefs kiss

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

@lilac stag hey you there

[bronze turret]

I like it thus far

Got 2 expansions left I think

Leveled from 0

1

[lilac stag]

Yo

[keen dome]

It's a lot of fun. It really kicks into high quality SW stuff once you hit the very long Knights stuff

Which is just really good with some great villains and where they stopped triyng to be an MMO

[tribal blade]

i forgot to tell you, i was saying what happened to my buddy over disc when i died twice in that DB

[sacred path]

Oh I thought you were referring to star wars galaxies

[wraith sphinx]

Even some base story stuff is good tbh. Imp agent story is goated

[sacred path]

Never tried swtor

[bronze turret]

Ye idk, I hated the story flashpoints cus if I had to leave the pc during one it would constantly just reset on me

[tribal blade]

i stood in a frontal like a dingus, and then when i was flying back i dismounted mid air but kept the momentum and literally flew over the ledge to my death

[bronze turret]

So frustrating

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, they're annoying

[lilac stag]

Suicide bombing with add spawn.

[tribal blade]

dude so bad lol

[keen dome]

Agent is great. Knight is the defacto 'protagnist' but Warrior works well and is a great exploration on the whole Sith power struggle and 'honour of a warrior' thing

[tribal blade]

you should have heard me going "THERE'S NO WAY"

[lilac stag]

Right as I popped CDs. 💣💥

[tribal blade]

haha yeah right as crit gave me PI too

[lilac stag]

I was laughing soooooo hard

[bronze turret]

Doing inquisitor atm

[keen dome]

Inquisitor is so good

[lilac stag]

Wife actually checked in to see what was so funny

[keen dome]

One of my favourite stories and one of the best crews. Love me Khem

[bronze turret]

Powertrip lmao

[wraith sphinx]

Though I'm still personally disappointed you can't play a pistol agent. You can do the combat style switch stuff sure, but I always wanted pistol with Operative's kit

[tribal blade]

i was literally saying to him "the pull with a million frontals" and then i get 1 tapped

[lilac stag]

I legit had fun

[tribal blade]

yeah it was a blast

[lilac stag]

It’s been a while since that’s happened

[tribal blade]

i find very inventive ways to die

[lilac stag]

Warrior kinda chill. I think I’m just missing ilvl

[bronze turret]

Had a very brief swtor playtime on release and I tried some class that hides behind shields and shoot. But I suppose it’s not what ur talking about

[tribal blade]

yeah ilvl makes a big difference

[keen dome]

same

Operative never made sense with the rifle. It should've been the Powertech kit

[wraith sphinx]

Republic had gunslinger/scoundrel that could do this yeah with a pistol, their version of empires imperial agent, but I wanted the James Bond gameplay

[bronze turret]

Unfortunate

[lilac stag]

I am also slightly distracted by lightning bolts shooting out and going fuck that’s cool.

[keen dome]

Scoundrel is the best class because their backstab combo is kicking someone in the nuts and then firing a shotgun point blank into their ass

[bronze turret]

Love that

[keen dome]

And their proc sound for healing is giggling. And if you pvp'd, you'd just be giggling non-stop as you proc'd stuff

which was funny as hell

[tribal blade]

yeah he loves playing ele, we were coordinating our cds in the maze

[lilac stag]

yeah everything died sooo fast

[tribal blade]

but then both our cd sets lined up when he had spymasters too

[bronze turret]

Is pvp worth playing

[keen dome]

Absolutely

[lilac stag]

I was trying not to send with you two

[keen dome]

Huttball needs to be experinced

[tribal blade]

so that pull he ended at 9 mil and me at 5

[wraith sphinx]

The fucking "hehehe" as an operative or scoundrel opens on you in Huttball

[tribal blade]

that pack literally melted

[keen dome]

SWTOR PvP is basically WoW-but-gooder imo. It's more deliberate, a bit slower, but very tactical. It feels a lot of fun to play. No auto-attacking and everything being deliberate is very interesting

Or did anyway I dunno how it's changed

[bronze turret]

That’s nice, might try it out

Mostly just done story and a few ship battles

[keen dome]

Huttball is worth seeing though because it's a really original game mode.

[wraith sphinx]

Vanguard trooper was so hype in PvP. Something about charging a bunch of sith when you're just Heavy Armour Gun Guy

Or harpoon pulling people into traps

[wraith sphinx]

Agreed it was peak

[keen dome]

SWTOR also just did smarter stuff for pvp like a lot of their things are "Play X matches, wins count for 2"

Lot less frustrating design around just playing the game.

[old venture]

Why would you do that to him

[haughty mural]

huttball is defo worth it imo
and bh has a goated story

[keen dome]

BH is good until he shows up

Although you also get one of the best companions in the game to balance it out

[left saffron]

Could someone take a look at the logs i placed in the thread? would love to get Roasted to learn some ^^

[mint swift]

How good is sub looking next patch

[haughty mural]

he ?

[keen dome]

No changes yet. Outside the set bonus being potentially strong (it's broken right now, though) and a lack of a good trinket, anyway.

So we gotta wait and seeeee.

[mint swift]

Ah alright

Assas one just looks like a massive "fuck you"

[wraith sphinx]

The only trinkets we need next season are the goon squad and the kobold minecart

[hardy snow]

should there be a situation DN buff could be preserved by using BP if dance is very close?

[tribal blade]

right now i'm not entirely sure, maybe if it's 1 finisher to fit DN into a supercharger

but the issue with delaying DN is you drop your mark on your target, which is a pretty big loss

since the entire DS damage profile revolves around consuming marks and DN as they come up

[hardy snow]

not big loss in that situation if you're talking about a 50% increased gb out of dance or something similar.
it wont be that many instances anyway, while for burst window of dance and symbol benefits for DN evis should be however much considerable.

[alpine wraith]

you do it the other way around

you dont consume mark when it is only 1 and it is close to dance

just pool sht/cp

[hardy snow]

and wait?

[alpine wraith]

losing the dmg from the autos etc is big

and by close i mean like 5 or 6 secs

[hardy snow]

pooling is more understandable

yea, that's what im talkinga bout

[alpine wraith]

otherwise you can just pool finish and then get full cp to get mark again

[novel marlin]

hey there, i am looking for a kind soul that tells me it's ok to play trickster even though DS sims over 40k higher on ST.

[alpine wraith]

dont worry just get parried twice in a fight and it is more than 40k dps

[hardy snow]

i see, you're talking about autos from mark and other staff

[alpine wraith]

yes

[hardy snow]

indeed, that could however be more a bigger issue

[tribal blade]

they mega buffed the plague damage DS does for sub

so just mark existing on your target is already a decent chunk of damage

[hollow spear]

Or play Sin and get a parry on your kingsbane

[fallen crescent]

Preach

[lyric agate]

is it worth to play sub in raid and m+? or still assa dominating in every scenario

[keen dome]

Which do you enjoy playing more? Both are competitive, and have different strengths.

And at what level.

[lyric agate]

M+ in 14/15 keys

raid in mythic

[keen dome]

I believe Sub is absolutely fine at that level, yeah. More boss damage in M+, probably.

[lyric agate]

so means high content.. but most problem is recrafting and gearing all the time.. cause stats

[keen dome]

I don't think Assa really cares about stats a whole lot, so you can probably do both.

See which you enjoy more.

[lyric agate]

which specc is better to learn? cause i mostly played outlaw.. which dont have real CD's

[keen dome]

Both have thier rules to learn and both are burst. Sub is 1:30, with smaller bursts between bigger, Assa is 2 (one 2 minute cooldown, and another at 1 minute so you can do smaller burst between bigger) minutes. I'd say they're about equal, although Assa is probably a bit smoother to play initially. Really, just give both a go, see which you like the feel of more.

Sub is probably more unintutive with weird quirks, though. But once you learn them (and the bugs) it's chill.

[lilac stag]

You don’t have to regear every time. Assa plays perfectly fine with vers mas. Just have a crit haste ring to swap

[lyric agate]

cause right now i got only 1k mastery .. cause i am totally crit/vers geared

[lilac stag]

Assa is easier to learn

[keen dome]

It's not going to make much difference while you try the specs out, really.

Check their rotations. Set their talents up. Hit some dummies. Maybe run a lower key. Just get the vibe and see which clicks. And then you'll know

There's no haste cap stuff like Outlaw has, so statting is a lot less impactful on how it feels to play the spec

[worn ivy]

Any news PTR?

[alpine wraith]

nope

[kind bluff]

100 lines of rogue changes inc

[vestal escarp]

[keen dome]

Maybe they'll gie us a poem

[swift tinsel]

"What if Sub is delete?"

[keen dome]

Dancing in the gloom of the hill;
Glowing with the prideful purple of emperor's gone;
Lamenting the loss of the lonesome secret companions;
Replicating Shadows still bugged'

[twilit phoenix]

pumped for all the rogue fixes today

[uneven scarab]

[twilit phoenix]

it's not called cope

it's hope

[keen dome]

That's why we're subtly. We're always subtly hoping

[uneven scarab]

as much as i hope as the next guy im just used to setting the bar low

[twilit phoenix]

set the bar low, and you'll be surprised at how much lower blizz can set it

[keen dome]

Give me a poem, Blizzard. I challenge you

[uneven scarab]

[swift tinsel]

there is no bar in Ba Sing Se

[tepid trellis]

there might be if you are dyslexic

[swift tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/drool-bosco-atla-avatar-the-last-airbender-eating-gif-17757106

[uneven scarab]

Toph my goat

[keen dome]

I should re-watch Avatar. What a good series

[uneven scarab]

Fr

Actually rewatched it last year

[lilac stag]

Please. Just so I can see fuu respond with “it’s ok”.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/sky-bison-appa-avatar-the-last-airbender-gif-5671149704697571646

[keen dome]

https://tenor.com/view/avatar-the-last-airbender-aang-airbending-goofy-funny-gif-13514465

[swift tinsel]

blizz revealing more rogue pvp notes and nothing else

[keen dome]

I've been working on 1.8k and I am going to miss Shadowy Duel

what a button

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/song-aang-atla-hippie-sing-gif-13853815

[swift tinsel]

SECRET TUNNELLLLLLL

[vale pine]

[lilac stag]

Fuu catching strays

[keen dome]

Dyslexics of the world untie

[alpine wraith]

ehehe

[fathom adder]

is the trickster and ds opener the same? just heard there is a difference in vanish usage but the wowhead guide only says use it on cd while low on cp (?)

[alpine wraith]

vanish does not change and the opener itself is almost the same

just for DS getting two sec techs inside transmitter is more tight

[fathom adder]

thank you

[hazy breach]

Ye its just the second sectech being a finisher later, otherwise its the same

[fathom adder]

thank you

i am having trouble understanding when to use sectec with symbols outside of dance. I thought aber the "big" cd with 2 or 3 dances in a row you just chill until you recover those 2 dances + all cds for the next burst 1:30 after the first usage. Do i understand it correctly that you would save the 2 dances and would just use that one symbol with sectec on cd, because it would be ready either way with the cd reduction?

[hazy breach]

Technically there are some times where its worth to use sectech outside of dance yes, but generally just focus on making sure you can use 2 sectechs, 2 symbols and 2 dances during flag.

Which doesnt necessarily mean have 2 dances ready when you flag

Having 1 charge and 40s left on the second one is a good rule of thumb of what to have when you flag

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[worn ivy]

YOYOYOY

hoooolu

hooly

i start playing

Deathstalker

in keyts

i think its better

no joke

[hazy breach]

Not really, but its about the same

[worn ivy]

are u sure

[swift tinsel]

gottem

[lilac stag]

Put down the crack pipe

[hazy breach]

If the packs live long and you get full rupture values its typically higher, prob with the cursed mark tech it could be higher

Its burst damage VS rupture damage, in general i'd favour the burst

[worn ivy]

since we play fathom is it better to use mastery flask right?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt really matter

Alchemical, vers and mastery are all about the same

[shadow jay]

is seal of the poisoned pact just not worth losing a bunch of vers/mastery? trust the sims i assume

[wind canopy]

Sim angle

[shadow jay]

that's too bad. thanks

[fathom adder]

@hazy breach thank you

does that mean you do use no dances outside of those flag/sb windows?

[wind canopy]

You still do, but just need to be mindful of when you use them as those windows get closer.

[fathom adder]

okay thank you. So one dance and the 3rd symbol are free to play while you save the other 2 for dance?

[wind canopy]

Yeah. Keep in mind, if they're gonna come up during those windows, can fire them as well.

[fathom adder]

you mean when i get them back until sb/flag is ready again?

[wind canopy]

Example: You have a symbols charge, but you're going to get another one during the middle of that window.

You don't need to come into windows with exactly two of each charge.

[hazy breach]

Having 1 charge and 40s left on the second one is a good rule of thumb of what to have when you flag

[fathom adder]

i get it, thank you

so if i habe 1 charge of sd and 30 seconds left on sb/flag, i have 6 cp and symbols + sectec off cd - i assume i would send symbol + sectec then without dance?

[wind canopy]

Yeah, you can send the SoD and ST since you'll get a SoD charge back and CDR for ST will get them both back

[fathom adder]

thank you

its fun but the hardest version of sub that i played yet, maybe it will flow better with a little bit of practice

[swift tinsel]

Once you get the hang of it its super fun

[fathom adder]

i bet

[keen dome]

Incredibly fake

The art alone is just taken from a fan art piece from 2021. But outright naming patches is just not something Blizzard would ever do - you can also compare to the current legitimate roadmap from this year. Some obvious things where they copied sections (Brewfest on there twice).

[stiff remnant]

ayo is it too early to tell if Sub is gonna be competitive with the other specs next season?

[vale pine]

too early

[steel zinc]

Confirm it 100% real trust me bro

😅

[keen dome]

No etherals so even if it was real I'd be shouting "FAKE, FAKE" anyway because I want etherals.

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/armstrong-made-it-up-gif-25653819

[keen dome]

Also: "Order hall updates"

THEY BLEW OURS UP

[steel zinc]

Legion remix

100% confirm

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's more or less ben confirmed by Ion and some others, iirc.

They got asked and basically went "wouldn't it be cool" or something

It's also pretty obvious with the fel green tint at the end of the current road-map, imo. It fits too well, and it'd be so popular.

There's also no 'flair' on it.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1200829.jpg All the legitimate ones have a lot of 'flair' in how they have these icons, and stuff.

Which the fake one is just completely lacking.

We'll get the 2026 roadmap with the expansion reveal of MIdnight, imo

And it'll say "Rogue: Posion toggle." and "Playable Ethereals"

[fathom adder]

do i understand it correctly that as trickster sub in m+ you just do your st rotation with the trickster cleave until 7 mobs, then just shurikenstorm and bp instead of sjadowstrike and evi?

[tulip gorge]

Until 5

[keen dome]

Shadowstrike is still more damage than Storm, I think? So we use that to build at +5 still and then blast with BP.

[hazy breach]

Yes you still strike

[fathom adder]

where is the point where you would use storm?

[hazy breach]

But you want to storm once for rotten

[hazy breach]

Never

Every dance when theres 5 or more targets should be exactly like this:
Strike > sectech > storm > bp

And then continue with strikes

But if you miss the storm you'd just continue eviscerating

[fathom adder]

thank you

[hazy breach]

Because BP only does more damage if you have find weaknesses up

(i very much dislike this and hope they change it, but knowing very well that they wont)

[fathom adder]

ok good to know

maybe there will be changes today

[vale pine]

maybe, you never know

[hazy breach]

I admire your spirit, for mine has withered many moons ago

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-cash-i-hurt-myself-today-gif-11701571

eleem every tuesday/wednesday

[wind canopy]

[hazy breach]

You can have it all, my empire of dirt 🎶

[sacred path]

How the hell was my 4 bosses item less ilvl than my 6 bosses item

Champion transmitter, prob still way better than any other choice

Feels bad to see a 613 in the higher slot though

[hazy breach]

LFR transmitter is typically better than any other trinket

[pliant topaz]

What have I become? My sweetest friend...
Everyone I know goes away, In the end

me watching everyone quit slowly including myself

[sacred path]

Never quit never surrender

Unless you finished it all I guess

[pliant topaz]

thats called sunk cost my friend

[crystal bone]

quick question for ya

im confused why the multi target opener goes flag rupture instead of flag evis

after already spreading bleeds

[hazy breach]

Its eviscerating before though

[crystal bone]

yea first evis for snd i assumed

then spread bleeds

but why another rupture instead of evis?

[hazy breach]

Its not like youre applying rupture to all targets and then tossing another rupture

[crystal bone]

ahh i see what u mean

bleeding 2 targets is better in that scenario

assuming they will last the full bleed?

[hazy breach]

Each cast applies two

But yes if mobs arent going to last through your flag you dont need to hold flag to cast ruptures before

Outside dance is typically ~10s or so thats the threshold

[crystal bone]

i see

i love the single target, not sure how i feel about the aoe rotation

[lilac stag]

Forgive them, they’re new to retail.

[hazy breach]

Most would agree

[tawny forum]

I let Trickster do my aoe rotation for me

[hazy breach]

Ye and thats like 8% worse than actually pressing BP

[crystal bone]

yeah its odd lol

4 or less targets u just play single target rotation

just throw extra rupture

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker is even worse

[crystal bone]

and build with storm*

outside of dance*

yea im not a fan of deathstalker

main reason im looking at sub lol

tracking the mark is getting old

[tawny forum]

I do wish they would fix the Coup De Grace bug though

[hazy breach]

Which one

[tawny forum]

There's more than one? Jebus

I was talking about the one where it sometimes doesn't do damage

[haughty mural]

Bugfixes?
We dont do that here

Bp getting buffed to compensate

[pliant topaz]

more important things on the todolist tbh

like new colors for mage sunfury orbs

[vestal escarp]

New animation for syndragosas breath please

The current one is so silly

[swift tinsel]

"Breath of Sindragosa now has multiple color variants including Spearmint, Cinnamon, and Artic Chill"

[bright sundial]

question for everyone, is anyone's game also freezing when doing timewalking in brh? for some reason twice today after looting the first boss everyones game froze but works idk how to explain it

[mint swift]

Any idea how much the rota will change next season or is it still to early to tell?

[mint swift]

Isn't that just Rogue's class fantasy at this point

[kind bluff]

As of now it's looking like rupture only fin9sher outside cds

Lol

[fallow nimbus]

It's too early and also too late

Nothing will change

11.1 isn't our patch

If anything changes at all then it's probably assa qol stuff like ambush procs applying mark

[solar ingot]

I think my biggest gripe is energy regen outside cds. Idec if they made the damage the exact same somehow but since there is negative energy management in CD’s anyways I wish they’d just do away with it all together

[tribal blade]

rogue changes?????????

[gritty knot]

There are quite a lot rogue changes with 11.1 tho

Oh nvm. They just fix coup and let rogue cook

*sub changes

[tulip token]

Boys, I did it again. Another 17 kill win. xD I wanted to beat my record so bad but I will take a tie.

[vague oar]

coup de gras dash on queen is legit the worst fucking thing i've ever had to deal with in this game

[pliant topaz]

good thing its gone next patch

[sacred path]

3 jumps is a terrible one

[edgy zenith]

i actually love the AoE rotation with trickster. Rotten and Coup make it more interactive than the normal bongo cat we do on Sub

[twilit phoenix]

trickster sub is based

[hybrid prism]

don't raid in a guild anymore but just got 4/8m as a pug in NP.

[tribal blade]

i didn't kill myself a single time with coup dash on queen prog

either lucky or i used my brain

[vague oar]

i don't have a brain

i killed my self a lot on queen with coup dash

[tribal blade]

oh no wait i'm lying, i remember now i coup dashed while mid air into the boss' circle

and got the dot

[vague oar]

that happened to me last week bro

[tribal blade]

haha so 1 death

[vague oar]

i was about to alt f4

that was also on our 2% wipe so had my whole team blaming me for not killing it

[edgy zenith]

yeah, this is what kills you mostly

boss slightly out of range of your soak circle, you press Evis while initially popping into air, it yoinks you down and die

if you die to it from web blades, you just aren't paying attention

well, you aren't paying attention in both cases, but the nova one is slightly more forgivable because you can be in melee range on the ground but not in melee a second after the pop

definitely glad it's gone though

surely RS is next 🙂

[late helm]

dry symbols implies the existence of moist sopping symbols

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-donuts-glazed-donuts-yummy-gif-17851520

[edgy zenith]

does disorienting strikes not give a buff?

just have to be a knower?

or make a custom weak aura?

sometimes in keys when I send a natty symbols in AoE, I wonder if it's good to use the guaranteed unseen blade procs or not

or just spam storm anyway

this seems like an eleem question

[rocky ocean]

sloppy

[tribal blade]

PARSING COURT AS RED TEAM?!?!

[edgy zenith]

i had a rank 1 pull yesterday wipe at 3.3% as red team

was depressed

didn't even get to send my second sectech into damage amp 😦

had the most ungodly radiant power procs on opener

just checked vod, started I1 at 2.9M

first charge I peaked at 4M

actual god pull

[tribal blade]

it's always really sad when you wipe on a god pull

[dry plank]

With such god pull barely outdps blue lock parse

God save us in next season

[jaunty umbra]

it's the lock boss tho gotta be real

[dry plank]

True but still

[tribal blade]

ranged got it a lot better than melee on court

they can have 100% uptime

[hollow spear]

Especially if bosses don't get stacked often enough for melee to cleave

[tribal blade]

they also get to cleave all the adds

[hollow spear]

True

[tribal blade]

but feels good outperforming ranged on it!

[hollow spear]

Adds on red side only ever stay there when they get to clap my cheeks

If not, they immediately get yoinked by a DK

I'm sure they have a macro for that 💀

[vale pine]

very nice

[tulip token]

Ahh so red team is the bad side to be on for parsing 😦 That is where I am in my raid as well

[tribal blade]

yeah boned compared to blue side 😦

[tulip token]

Is it cause of ad padding?

Blue side has the dks and all the adds im assuming

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, I'm getting faster. Soon, I will be speed itself.

[tulip token]

I am still progging it tbh

[open vortex]

cause you miss a full dmg amp after beetle crashes in p3

its the last crash beetle does and if you are red, you have to move to the side because the other boss is going to do its pull in/thread mechanic

[tulip token]

Ahhh... that sucks

[open vortex]

on reclears that's all (especially with the lower kill times) but before you missed another amp at the end too

i can still get off like sectec + 2x evis on the last beetle amp tho before i have to step/move away

[vale pine]

runing at the speed of light confirmed

[tulip token]

Gotcha. I guess we havent seen that far yet. I think we died just as that charge was going off

[keen dome]

It's really funny how fast Sub can book it when you hit dance.

[tulip token]

Lowest pull is 23%

[keen dome]

Pretty low pull. You'll kill it soon!

[tulip token]

I hope so! Would like to get CE

We have more than enough damage with all this gear and the finary buffs. Just need to do the mechs

[vale pine]

will kill it soon

[tulip token]

This was from the lowest pull. I love how my warlocks damage is considered bad on that for ilvl but mine is pretty good. They must blast on this fight xD

Checked top of boards for mythic court.... So many warlocks. That answers my question

[alpine wraith]

yea queen is easier with more dmg too

hardest int was p2

and now that one is way easier

[tulip token]

I have heard people say queen is easier so I am hoping we get court this thursday as we are a 2day a week guild. Then we can start getting some queen prog in. We are like 201 pulls into court rn

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

queen was easier than court before court got the 2nd round of big nerfs

now queen is harder than current court for sure

[tulip token]

Well dang. Hopefully we can make CE.

[tribal blade]

but the good thing about progging queen is it's mostly front loaded difficulty

the majority of where you spend your time wiping is P1

P2 is also kinda tricky

and P3 you can breeze through once everyone knows what they're doing

and with the damage everyone has now you only need to do 1 portal jump in P3

[lilac stag]

I hate court prog

Everything end loaded

Long fight

[tribal blade]

yeah court a high precision fight

[lilac stag]

Was arms last night lol

[tribal blade]

oh damn

[tulip token]

This all makes sense. I think we have a good shot. Just gotta get this fight done with asap and get reps in

[lilac stag]

Missing warrior and monk.

Relearning CDs on the fly

[tribal blade]

2 big melee buffs that's tragic

[tribal blade]

yeah you for sure have enough time to kill queen

well, i assume

[lilac stag]

We got to 17%

[tribal blade]

huge!

[lilac stag]

but not consistent enough with p3 yet

[tribal blade]

over our entire court prog iirc us red team only messed up webs once

in P3

[lilac stag]

P3 is the positioning / dispelled right now

For whatever reason that’s not clicking

[tribal blade]

yeah the positioning becomes complicated

i look forward to you being in P1 wiping hell on queen lol

[lilac stag]

Even just being close enough for the dispels seems like it’s a struggle

[tribal blade]

P1 sucks so bad for melee

[lilac stag]

I’m likely assa on queen

Just plowing boss dmg

[tribal blade]

i honestly think it would be worth being sub for parry protection

because she fucking slaps tanks

really hard

but not required

the best part of sin on queen would for sure be the execute damage

since you kinda want to skip all the backend of P3

[lilac stag]

Idk it’s a huge diffy in boss dmg at least logs wise

Top sub boss is like 1.2

And that’s DS

kekw

[tribal blade]

ahh i see, interesting

yeah it does

[tulip token]

Is there any fights where assa vs sub really matters?

[tribal blade]

ovi and rashanan

those 2

for sin

[tulip token]

That’s fair

[tribal blade]

but rashanan is an easy boss so it doesn't really matter

and honestly ovi is just about doing mechanics properly, so it doesn't matter either

[vale pine]

sin is rly good on ovi ye

[foggy geode]

What talent/ability is sometimes giving me full combo points after using evis

[vale pine]

don't think it matters now because the ring, gear levels and the ramping buff

[tribal blade]

the great thing about sin on ovi is you absolutely cook the boss while doing decent add damage

[vale pine]

shadowcraft

[tulip token]

Yeah facts. I played sub for first boss cause I hated the feel of it on sin. Played most of the others on sin. I pretend the Vantus rune is enough for me to bring out sub but the reality is I just like playing sub during prog on certain fights lol

[tulip token]

Yeah sin funnel is very fun

[alpine wraith]

positioning in p3 is a lot easier now

[tribal blade]

after ovi i played sub for every boss during prog

because i wanted to

[alpine wraith]

just red team on wall blue team middle on the room

[tribal blade]

and i don't regret it

[alpine wraith]

when you get pulled you always go right

then soak orbs

blue breaks webs red dont etc

[tulip token]

Good to know. My dps has never been an issue in this guild. I’m glad I can play any of the specs and it’s not really throwing. Granted I haven’t tried outlaw in mythic raid at all this season

[vale pine]

i played sub on all fights so far

don't think its bad on one

[tribal blade]

one big plus of sub is you're much tankier than sin

and you can bring parry protection for your entire raid which is a plus

[vale pine]

vers stacking is great

[tulip token]

The only time I didn’t like sub vs sin was sikran. Getting the mech while in dance made me wanna cry

[tribal blade]

yeah vers stacking and more DR+healing talents 😉

[vale pine]

i also like how you have low competition on gear

nobody wants vers mastery