So it should be like 1% if you time your inbetween dances with it
#subtlety
hazy breach
bleak wind
1%?
steel zinc
So it should be like 1% if you time your inbetween dances with it
That's some cook and u don't need it for any good even 100 logs
upper narwhal
so always use 2nd in cooldowns and always use once in between?
hazy breach
Only use it inbetween if you use it pretty much immediately once its ready
Thats why its not in simc because its really annoying to re-write all of the symbols&dance conditions for it
small juniper
the assa / outlaw mods would do it ...
upper narwhal
makes sense, it's more worth to hold it for CDs than use it more frequently and miss the important one. sounds irritating af to implement lol
small juniper
lazy eleem
hazy breach
lazy eleem
np
bleak wind
so are you guesstimating how strong it is then
hazy breach
Well the 0.6% isnt a guesstimate
vale pine
0.6% but it is more annoying to play
wind canopy
steel zinc
0.6% but it is more annoying to play
Bro so we are sandbaggjng. Is it for both hero talents.
?
vale pine
Bro so we are sandbaggjng. Is it for both hero talents.
only trickster iirc, also its not sandbagging
vale pine
don't rly think we sandbag ^^
tepid trellis
then they would just nerf the dmg we did inside of dance
pliant topaz
then they would just nerf the dmg we did inside of dance
no we just nerf you
swift tinsel
Could also have it like it is on ptr where their main spender reduces its cooldown by 25%
thick temple
I know its late into season but i did it yay. thank u to this discord for teaching sub rogue
i still cant remember which classes have lust 
haughty mural
Shaman in every group anyway 
silent ruin
!wa
gritty knot
anyone knows if there is a possibility to use sim to get info about stats and if for example u have too much crit and need more mastery or vers or idk?
small juniper
I know its late into season but i did it yay. thank u to this discord for teachi...
np
pliant topaz
np
honest saddle
I know its late into season but i did it yay. thank u to this discord for teachi...
Congrats on 3k
honest saddle
anyone knows if there is a possibility to use sim to get info about stats and if...
Check your dms
tribal blade
i was trying to explain to my guild's enhance about how sub needs to hold cds between P1 and P2 of queen
and how it tanks our damage
and he said "that's the same for everyone"
i couldn't quite get him to understand how much of sub's damage is in cds
and how little we do outside of it
hazy breach
200k dps enjoyers
tribal blade
holding hand with the tank outside cds enjoyers
void hound
ive been using manual CB for a while, i dont find it annoying to play
in fact, i came to enjoy it for the later bosses as it offers some fun optimization
tribal blade
so BP at 5+
for trickster BP at 5
tribal blade
and SS at 3+?
if you mean storm you cast at 2 outside dance, in dance only once with your 2nd rotten stack
if you mean strike you keep casting it in dance no matter the target count to keep proccing unseen blade
twilit phoenix
if you mean storm you cast at 2 outside dance, in dance only once with your 2nd ...
this is great, thanks a lot king
tribal blade
this is great, thanks a lot king
ofc!
twilit phoenix
you dropped this btw 👑
tribal blade
i decided to run a random SoD to finish out the myth mog for my warr and got x2 jaithys and 1 leggo bow and 1 EoN
what a lockout
lilac stag
anyone knows if there is a possibility to use sim to get info about stats and if...
Don’t worry about secondaries. You can use stat weights in sims, which I think purposely burried because it’s just not a good method for gearing choices. We favor vers/mas as sub, that doesn’t make crit bad or haste absolutely useless. We are GCD locked at 1 second. We don’t have breakpoints.
gritty knot
Don’t worry about secondaries. You can use stat weights in sims, which I think p...
Ye, shortly after I asked my question I realized there is a stat weight option in Raidbots, thx mate. It wasn't for me but for a friend of mine who plays ret and asked me if I can help him to figure out if he has too much haste and not enough crit hehe
lilac stag
unless it’s changed I think Ret follow same logic. Sim all the options, let robot figure out gearing.
you’ll usually find 1-2 very vocal people saying OMG MORE HASTE FOR X
jaunty heath
Ye thats any spec
jaunty heath
you’ll usually find 1-2 very vocal people saying OMG MORE HASTE FOR X
Ye and even then simming an item would show exactly that 
vale pine
you usually just use vers/mastery on all items unless its forced by tier set
lilac stag
It is interesting to hop on a non gcd locked spec and feel the difference in what haste and lust can do.
keen dome
It's really interesting
lilac stag
unless I hear my WA, idk if anyone pressed lust as sub.
tribal blade
It is interesting to hop on a non gcd locked spec and feel the difference in wha...
it's a crazy feeling
compared to rogue where i literally don't notice when i get PI unless i notice it on my buff WA
lilac stag
I think it’s also why folks still get hung up on breakpoints
lilac stag
If you are using the pedro WA, that is.
I’ve been using the buff announcer WA. Is there a Pedro edit?
lilac stag
This just made my Saturday. 
keen dome
Pedro WA best WA
lilac stag
They think fury warriors are in a good spot.
tribal blade
Dev notes?
void hound
Dev notes?
hazy breach
I think thats the intent
lilac stag
Dodge balls.
hazy breach
Its the first boss right?
lilac stag
but yes. Seems intentional.
fallow nimbus
Isn't that like the 4th?
grand wyvern
yeah its 4th
keen dome
I'm excitd to lead pugs through it and shout "LOOK OUT FOR THE BIG BALLS"
fallow nimbus
I think the strat will be to see the trashpiles like rings
Your ball just drives along it
What I've seen my guild do in testing was wild, balls drifting around like it's tokio drift the movie
keen dome
tribal blade
Its the first boss right?
iirc he said 5th or i'm deaf
keen dome
5th in the journal
tribal blade
5th in the journal
that ty
keen dome
But I dunno if it's a linear raid or not
Isn't the first boss the t-rex v mecha-gorilla fight or something? or am I just willing something that funny into existence
tribal blade
i think it looks great though, i actually kinda like how much of a clusterfuck it is
keen dome
Yeah, same. it looks chaotic but in an understandable way.
Once people get it, the mechanic looks really fun
Also the incentive to do it well doing a ton of HP damage to the boss
fallow nimbus
It will be removed just like tindral
keen dome
I like it when doing mechanics well causes bosses to lose HP / be debuffed
tribal blade
It will be removed just like tindral
i dunno because it's random who it goes on
so if you get the mechanic your parse is just bricked
hard to say, who knows what they'll do
fallow nimbus
Yes 
keen dome
Haha
tribal blade
that was my immediate thought when i saw them running the balls around
keen dome
brb making a katamari damacy WA for if you get the mechanic
grand wyvern
blizzard trying to intentionally brick parses
tribal blade
this is like that monkey MoP dungeon boss on crack
fallow nimbus
A bricked parse means you try again next week 
tribal blade
your entire rotation is gonna center around not sending stuff right before that mechanic goes out
grand wyvern
or gamble
tribal blade
or gamble
tribal blade
depends tbh, if it's like 15 secs before it goes out that's enough time to get the majority of both dances out
20-30 seconds you're chilling if you send
keen dome
hazy breach
iirc he said 5th or i'm deaf
Ok mb
I didnt watch his vid, but i watched whispyr some
Ig its like ovinax
grand wyvern
I didnt watch his vid, but i watched whispyr some
i dont know why he says 5th i actually see it 4th
tribal blade
i dont know why he says 5th i actually see it 4th
he LIED
keen dome
Damn
hot plaza
In m+ guys as trickster so if flawless is up at 5+ does BP still win? Ty ♥️
tulip gorge
yes, but keep in mind sometimes you need to do prio damage
and it's better to just eviscerate instead
hot plaza
Legend thanks mate ♥️👍
hot plaza
yes, but keep in mind sometimes you need to do prio damage
In s2 is it going to matter where sectech is in our dance rotation as now has to be first in s2 with different tier can it it be used anytime in dance? Ty
tulip gorge
that I don't know, I'm waiting for people smarter than me to theorycraft
hot plaza
No problem thanks mate ♥️👍
tulip gorge
I doubt we will use sectech as first finisher anymore since we won't have the current tier set
mint swift
Hoping subs good next season, assa tier piece is dogwater
keen dome
We'll still glow purple so we're winning.
lilac stag
all tier seems dog water right now. Trinkets and Hero talents seem for despair on sub side. Tuning and the eventual bug fixes.
Almost typed that all out without laughing.
tulip gorge
I hope they will convert one of the 2m trinkets into 1.5m
grand wyvern
or even 3m would be fine right?
keen dome
all tier seems dog water right now. Trinkets and Hero talents seem for despair o...
poison toggle.
keen dome
Yeah, something I keep trying to will into existence. Basically a pretty minor QoL. Instead of our posions being 1H duration, we simply toggle them ona nd off.
tulip gorge
eh I'd prefer for them to focus on something more substantial
keen dome
Ye, of course. hence minor qol.
Although I'd argue it shouldn't be an either / or. Just a "This would be nice, maybe it'll come when they do other work on the class" thing.
tulip gorge
unfortunately they have limited resources
they need to first rework mage and druid for the millionth time
then do something for other classes
steel zinc
Yeah, something I keep trying to will into existence. Basically a pretty minor Q...
Its because everything above 1 hour is omega bugged
keen dome
Probably
grand wyvern
unfortunately they have limited resources
i see smaller companies like GGG able to do way more iteration on gameplay than blizzard, they decide towards what the budget goes and gameplay has never been their top priority
keen dome
I'm sure there's a very good, spaghetti reason for it to still be 1H in the year of our deathstalker 2025, but it's something I think would be a good, solid QoL change.
tulip gorge
i see smaller companies like GGG able to do way more iteration on gameplay than ...
GGG probably has less bureaucracy
they also probably have more relaxed deadlines
keen dome
Also they're working on a completely different game, in a different enviroment, with far less broadness of design
It's not really comparable, imo
grand wyvern
GGG probably has less bureaucracy
i buy the buerocracy thing mpore than anything else
tulip gorge
does PoE have patches like wow does, where people expect for new content every set period of time?
keen dome
It has leagues.
grand wyvern
yes every 4 months
keen dome
Not remotely like WoW, though.
tulip gorge
but is it as big as new raid or new zones
grand wyvern
they dont do as much new assets like wow for example they work smart and recycle stuff and focus more on gameplay
keen dome
And they're completely different games. One is a very broad MMO with multiple gameplay systems (PvE, PvP, and within them M+, etc). And the other is an ARPG with a singular campaign and additional mechanics tied to the core gameplay in the form of league systems.
A better one, if you wanna do the comparisons, would be FF14 and WoW.
Both are MMO's that have a paid subscription and expansion monetisation method. Both have 'seasons' in a loose of similarity, raid tiers, pvp, etc. And big patches with expectations. They're still not directly comparable 'cos WoW is pretty much a one-of-a-kind game but it's closer, at least.
tulip gorge
well I still think a huge problem is the bureaucracy
I bet there is a lot of useless management that has to give approval for every tiny thing
keen dome
Possibly, yeah.
grand wyvern
i heard GGG say in an interview that they don't want to grow too much to avoid too many layers of management
lilac stag
I hope they will convert one of the 2m trinkets into 1.5m
Best we can do is give you a rng haste/crit 90 second trinket.
tulip gorge
Best we can do is give you a rng haste/crit 90 second trinket.
or double on-use for sub 
keen dome
I'm just hoping for chaos season and strength trinket. Would it be good? no. Would it be fun? no. would it be funny? yes.
lilac stag
auto attacks go brrrr
molten citrus
Both are MMO's that have a paid subscription and expansion monetisation method. ...
I feel like FF is a lot slower cadence and a lot less content
keen dome
Yeah, absolutely. Each patch is very routine. There's no variance. No new zone, etc.
New 8-man raid + story + dungeon -> new alliance raid + story + dungeon -> new 8-man raid + story + dungeon, etc.
keen dome
There's some curveballs, but it's tremendously smaller than what WoW has.
lilac stag
When do you get the new horde raid?
grand wyvern
maybe is just me but i don't want a new zone every patch
lilac stag
I’d take a new island every patch
keen dome
hell yeah
molten citrus
If it meant we could get more class attention I’d gladly take no new zones I think
lilac stag
looking for marmaduke hit me in the feels
keen dome
I can't really imagine how WoW would work without them adding a major region with a major patch, though.
Since so much is typically tied to it.
molten citrus
Yeh prolly
lilac stag
If it meant we could get more class attention I’d gladly take no new zones I thi...
imagine actually having resources dedicated to class development.
vestal escarp
It's a "recent" thing really
keen dome
I guess, actually, the final patch of BfA?
grand wyvern
they are trying to make 5-6 different games for different kind of people
lilac stag
I’m hoping AI will fix class development.
lilac stag
Crimson Vial ftw
grand wyvern
the llm has halluncinated that rogue is a healer
maybe that's how sod was born
keen dome
Just paragraphs of patch notes talking about how they've buffed the rogue ability "Sideblast" and it simply doesn't exist.
keen dome
they are trying to make 5-6 different games for different kind of people
I think it's an interesting point, but I think it's also WoW's strength, right? That it is so diverse.
lilac stag
Would that be worse than our current patch notes?
vestal escarp
keen dome
Would that be worse than our current patch notes?
it'd be funnier
vestal escarp
Wth man
keen dome
I think it's worth keeping in mind what the majority of players in WoW do. 'Cos man, 14% have AotC this season. 14%!
molten citrus
I think it's an interesting point, but I think it's also WoW's strength, right? ...
i don't think having classic/sod/cata/retail/etc is helping
i think it's prolly helping them retain players
keen dome
Ye
lilac stag
i don't think having classic/sod/cata/retail/etc is helping
It is. It’s keeping people subbed.
molten citrus
but i don't think it's helping how retail feels to play
keen dome
I mean, they have different teams working on them so it's probably fine.
But I imagine it can result in confusion.
molten citrus
retail just feels kinda deadge
lilac stag
It always does
lilac stag
Cept PvP is finally dead dead all season
vestal escarp
Goodge
keen dome
PvP can't die until I get the 1.8k set this season
molten citrus
It always does
i think it's been getting worse
leaving out the super dead times during SL
hazy breach
how's the pushing going btw?
Its alright but ive abandoned sub a bit
molten citrus
it's been getting worse and worse
hazy breach
But one key away from 3.5 then we probably stop
lilac stag
because m+ is hell and raiding is well walled for a lot of lower mythic guilds by another WA boss
tulip gorge
I finally got a transmitter, funnily enough from the weekly timewalking quest
keen dome
It does feel a little quieter right now than DF did at any point except S4. But that's just feeliness rather than data. Looking at DataForazeroth is interesting 'cos only 0.3% of accounts have CE, 14% have AotC. I need to check normal sometime. 19%? I think have KSM.
It's a lot less than DF had.
tribal blade
Its alright but ive abandoned sub a bit
damn i'm sorry to hear that
tribal blade
But one key away from 3.5 then we probably stop
YO big
lilac stag
I’m legit logging in to gear warrior. Rogue is full 7 hours max / week mode.
keen dome
I've been achievement hunting.
tribal blade
i'm doing the same, achieves, mounts and tmog right now
lilac stag
I’m doing islands and delves.
vestal escarp
Hop on que simulator
lilac stag
I need a damn 10 carry on the warrior
keen dome
I want to level a warrior, but I'm a weirdo about names.
lilac stag
No one inviting a 623 ilvl no listed io toon
tribal blade
i finished every delve achieve except getting brann to 60 and 250 bountiful coffers looted
tulip gorge
what kind of warrior, arms?
lilac stag
I enjoy arms more, fury is fine as well
keen dome
i finished every delve achieve except getting brann to 60 and 250 bountiful coff...
Ye, same. I'll do those in S2
tulip gorge
is arms still a slow spec?
tribal blade
I need a damn 10 carry on the warrior
i can send you my btag since i'm NA if you want and i can help you with that
molten citrus
it'd be sick if we could one day play cross region
keen dome
cross-region play when.
molten citrus
frfr
keen dome
I'd also help but, ye. Region
molten citrus
FF has it
keen dome
Ye it owns
molten citrus
yeah its sick
lilac stag
that’s the one thing I wish we really had
molten citrus
gotta deal with ping or use a VPN and an addon
lilac stag
Don’t need the AH and shut, but just able to interact in game for groups and stuff
molten citrus
yeah exactly
keen dome
Yeah
keen dome
It'd just be nice to play with people, regardless of region.
MMO's are about connecting people, after all
molten citrus
for example eu pvp kinda keeps more participation throughout the season (not by much at all, but yeah)
lilac stag
With my dog stuff, I end up interacting with a lot more people from the UK than I do with NA folks unless it’s my students.
Real life imitating wow life
keen dome
Hell yeah
molten citrus
lilac stag
I do think I was born on the wrong side of the pond. Played soccer/footie all my life and it was a dead sport
keen dome
Do you like mushie peas
molten citrus
same i grew up playing soccer
lilac stag
Do you like mushie peas
Is avocado close enough?
keen dome
no, but avocado is pretty good
lilac stag
I do enjoy peas
keen dome
love me mushie peas'n pie
keen dome
mid
molten citrus
waaat
keen dome
never been a fan
lilac stag
3am she’s exhausted, I’m wide awake and chatting with a trainer in whales
keen dome
😻 what a lovely doggie
molten citrus
never been a fan
its so good
ground beef/peas/corn/diced carrot, topped with a layer of mashed potatoes
lilac stag
Pie is for pizza or sweets. 
keen dome
ye, it is good. Just.. eh. mid. Never been a fan. Now, a good mushroom pie
molten citrus
i never had it growing up
keen dome
tikka masala pie also pretty good surprisingly
molten citrus
so maybe i'm recency biased
lilac stag
Chicken pot pie not bad
molten citrus
i love a good chicken pot pie as well
lilac stag
just a vessel for the yummies
keen dome
I don't eat meat anymore but chicken pot pie was a divine thing when I first got to try it. What a good invention.
magic ruin
Heyo anyone know what the current severed strands damage bonus is?
lilac stag
are there any proteins you miss?
I’m not sure I’d want to keep living if I couldn’t get a good local strip steak to cook
keen dome
Chicken and duck, honestly. Chicken 'cos it's so versatile and useful and easy and duck because. man, duck. What a bird.
molten citrus
i don't think i could ever go vegetarian/vegan/etc either
lilac stag
find someone that can cook duck proper and you have a mate for life
keen dome
I worked in a higher quality frozen food place for a few years, and it has completely ruined a ton of food for me, haha.
Oh man, duck is the best. You gotta. Either the chinese style or just general. It's so good
Incredibly tasty, and the way the fat renders.
molten citrus
tbh i haven't tried most 'non-traditional' things
keen dome
Duck a l'orange is a classic
lilac stag
we’re just outside of Chicago. A few years back we went to the outer banks in N Carolina. Ordered fish in some form every meal. We then did a surf and turf order. Worst steak I had ever eaten in my life.
Local fresh was never so apparent to me
I won’t get seafood out here
keen dome
Yeah, fresh is so incredibly different.
lilac stag
also, holy fuck a good air fryer can reheat a cooked steak perfectly
that was last weeks discovery.
keen dome
I've been tempted by one, I've seen some really cool tofu recipes in them. Someday.
Really good way to do some quick tofu puffs or steaks or something
keen dome
Hell yeah
lilac stag
even got crisp sweet potato fries out of it
keen dome
Oh, something I absolutely miss is good Pho. Can't really get vegeterian Pho that's the same since the broth is so instrumental
lilac stag
3 hours of fast left. Now I’m craving food. haha fning sub channel
keen dome
Sorry, but also, food chat good chat 
lilac stag
yea
I’m always down to chat food
I love learning what other counties enjoy / their takes on ingredients.
I feel trapped by processing in the states
keen dome
Big same, yeah.
lilac stag
hell I love when my Canadian friends send me Ms Vicks all dressed chips.
the absolute chaos of delight in your mouth. I’d be so fat if those were readily available.
molten citrus
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
keen dome
Crisps from other countires are always a delight. What their standard of 'snack' is and stuff. I've been going through a few brands of bombay mix lately. Each one progressively spicier, it rules.
keen dome
Oh yeah, they rule a lot.
pistachios in general are fantastic, and then you add more flavour to them? Amazing.
lilac stag
The salt and vinegar is pretty good. Have to be careful to not burn my tongue. lol
lilac stag
damn I have a taste for fish and chips
lilac stag
the best fish and chips I’ve ever had was in Honolulu. An Irish bar. Stumbled upon it before leaving and was waiting to head to the airport. There was an English guy there, who was living in Japan for work. We ended up chatting a good bit while watching soccer. Apparently had family in HI and said the pub was always a favorite stop just because the food reminded him of home.
keen dome
Haha, that rules. I bet the fish would've been a lot fresher than the kind you'd get here in England?
swift tinsel
Salt and vinegar chips on sandwiches is top tier
lilac stag
Haha, that rules. I bet the fish would've been a lot fresher than the kind you'd...
Pineapples, Spam & Seafood. Welcome to Hawaii.
swift tinsel
Honestly not a bad life lol
keen dome
Salt and vinegar chips on sandwiches is top tier
Hell yes
hazy breach
YO big
I had way more fun when i could pug keys tbh and just play a lot more
Now i pretty much need to play with premades and I havent really made enough connections to have decent premades besides my guildies, so outside of those couple of hours a week we can play not much happens
lilac stag
I had way more fun when i could pug keys tbh and just play a lot more
What was the sweet spot key level of pug fun
vestal escarp
eleem trying to sling us that premade isnt fun and pugging is more 😩😩😩
vale pine
What was the sweet spot key level of pug fun
we need soloq to fix the puging experience
keen dome
eleem trying to sling us that premade isnt fun and pugging is more 😩😩😩
I'm in team pug
vestal escarp
that would be 10 times worse
vale pine
eleem trying to sling us that premade isnt fun and pugging is more 😩😩😩
i think it is better if you play higher levels, the player pool is not that big and people want to time keys
vestal escarp
soloq limited to 12s since you cant deplete them anymore would be a thing
keen dome
I do think a soloq can work, but it has to be focused on the weekly and casual bracket (2 - 12)
swift tinsel
if it guaranteed a lust/brez in each run, I'd be fine with that
keen dome
Give every healer a brez. give every tank a lust
swift tinsel
^^^^
keen dome
Bam, I have solved a big problem
I continue to say this because the warrior lust can be them just shouting really loudly and that's funny.
swift tinsel
3 Michelin Stars
If it comes with that animation I'll tank all day lol
seriously though, all healers not having brez makes little sense at this point
Paladins can use the light to brez, why not priest
insert lore reasons for the rest of them that aren't even any kind of a stretch at all if you think about it for .2 seconds lol
keen dome
You can add in a flavour reason for it, yeah. It doesn't reduce any class identity, because you still have DPS / healers who can lust / rez.
But all it does is smooth it out, and make the quality of play higher. Every group will have both, regardless of combination
Because you'll always have a tank and a healer
swift tinsel
"thEn DpS dOn'T HaVE UtiLitY"
lilac stag
we need soloq to fix the puging experience
That not what I was getting it. If premade are the gatekeeper for the io he’s at, when did pugging stop being practical / not enjoyable.
swift tinsel
good, give back scrolls then
keen dome
You could also achieve the precise same result by making a brez item / lust item that's 1:1 to how it works on classes that have it, too
Which is an eqaully good solution, imo. Either way results in the same, and is better for the game
swift tinsel
I've been a scrolls advocate from day 1
I think the damage profiles should be the unique identity
keen dome
Ye
Yeah. Damage profiles, baked in utility, etc. There's a lot to give classes identity and room.
Scrolls and access to critical utility like brez/lust simply smooths out other stuff.
swift tinsel
100%
keen dome
You can also spread 'em around crafters too which gives thema constant thing to do
Or shove them all on inscription so inscription has another item to make lmao
swift tinsel
You'll still have stuff like lock gate skips, shroud (even tho invis pots exist), etc
keen dome
Yeah.
swift tinsel
Doesn't inscription basically die after people stop using darkmoon trinkets lol
maybe offhand/staff crafts
keen dome
Staffs + vantus
keen dome
Nah, just let 'em make 'em.
keen dome
No friction, just simple. Makes it easier for them to be used effectively. As soon as you put something to make it a bit fiddly, you have a lot of people be weird.
swift tinsel
True
keen dome
Imagine going into a +10 and wiping and someone used their acuity drums. In this hypothetical scenario, I imagine the guy might get pissy about it and ragequit 'cos you burned his expensive item.
So it's just easier to remove the potential for any kind of additional punishment for failure.
swift tinsel
That's a valid point, as someone who's sitting on hundreds of acuity I don't really have that perspective atm lol
keen dome
Ye, I mean I get it too and wouldn't care personally. I just know how deranged some people in pugs get, and how people can perceive this kind of stuff.
Friction in games is good to an extent, but when you are already punished for failing, you don't need additonal personal punishments on top of it, imo.
hazy breach
eleem trying to sling us that premade isnt fun and pugging is more 😩😩😩
No premade is more fun but doesnt happen for more than a couple of hours a week for me because of scheduling stuff
hazy breach
What was the sweet spot key level of pug fun
15s because theres a bunch of them up in the group finder but most people are atleast decent
lilac stag
Makes sense. You’re doing 17s now?
fallen cobalt
I read the guides but am still confused when I use shuriken storm and black powder in AOE playing Trickster. Am I right that you always use shadow strike as builder in shadow dance and only use BP when flawless form isn't up (or to get one extra Danse Macabre stack in dance)? Then you use shuriken storm as a builder outside of shadow dance on 2 or more targets?
hazy breach
That used to be the case, but then they severely buffed BP multiple times. Below is how it is right now
Outside of dance you always storm when theres 2 or more targets, and you BP when theres 5 or more targets'
For 5 or more targets you always want your dances to start exactly like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
And then the rest of the builders are strikes
But if theres 4 or less targets you just always strike + eviscerate
lilac stag
I feel like that message should be a bot command
edgy zenith
^
fallen cobalt
That used to be the case, but then they severely buffed BP multiple times. Below...
Thank you for this! That helps a lot. One last question, after that dance opener sequence on 5+ targets would you keep using black powder as your finisher, unless you got a coup de grace I'm assuming?
hazy breach
yes
silk crescent
probably asked a lot already but, how is sub looking with new tier set on ptr?
hazy breach
It doesnt work (the set that is)
dry plank
We were playing beta before 11.1 and will play beta after. S=stability
grand wyvern
For 5 or more targets you always want your dances to start exactly like this:
<:...
is the reason for the SS that in aoe is worth building an extra danse macabre stack?
grand wyvern
shuriken storm 😄
grand wyvern
oh ok thanks
random hare
SS? <:kek:365510869557444628>
Plot twist: he meant sinister strike
hazy breach
Or shadowstep, shrouded suffocation or any of the other 100 SS spells
random hare
void ocean
anyone else has a situation with click macro which clicks button that holds another macro that its not working anymore?
nvm, just found out macro clicking macro is disabled since tww
fallen dew
!wa
spark tusk
Or shadowstep, shrouded suffocation or any of the other 100 SS spells <:kekdog:9...
Hey, any thoughts about the set bonuses in terms of tracking/reacting to them in any way? Just trying to start the immersion process in it if I want to make something. All g if too early to know, just talking about the design of it not the #s yet
hazy breach
Prob just tracking the number of stacks
If the numbers stay like they are currently i'd be very surprised if its worth to eviscerate outside of your dance to lose the stacks, atleast on singletarget
On aoe since we get way more finishers its probably still worth to BP, but it could just be a spread rupture angle, hard to tell exactly without sims
Having every eviscerate out of dance risk losing you a roughly 50% damage bonus to eviscerate and a ~100% damage bonus to sectech during dance seems not worth
(again, assuming the numbers stay and it works like you'd expect from reading the tooltip)
alpine wraith
yea the risk is high
chrome palm
If the numbers stay like they are currently i'd be very surprised if its worth t...
Are you talking in the burst window or in general?
alpine wraith
tbh i think the stacks take too long
steel zinc
If the numbers stay like they are currently i'd be very surprised if its worth t...
That would be so weitd
Weird
alpine wraith
they should be like 15-20 at most
steel zinc
So we just afk in st?
alpine wraith
but now they are like 40-50
steel zinc
Just backstab and never do anything else?
steel zinc
Ok yeah but that is omega weird playstyle
alpine wraith
likely between refreshing rupture and getting to full cp and sht it takes more than the time between dances
steel zinc
Yeah but also we lose dances because not much cdr
steel zinc
unless u want to stack to 14 stacks of sht ofc
Yeah but if we do even more dps in dance because of winning streak we want as mich sht stacks as possible
small juniper
ofc, still need some cdr tho unless its randomly worth getting less dances
im sure the smart ppl will figure it out
steel zinc
*presses finisher*
What eleem said is pressing no finisher outside dance except rupture refreshes
Talking strictly st
small juniper
now they just have to give us shadow rupture as a talent
alpine wraith
i mean time between dances is not that long in the grand scheme
kind bluff
Make symbols give you a certain number of stacks on use and dance makes it so you can't lose them, would give synergy to lining up cds which is our goal as is.
But who knows what dir3ction it will go
hazy breach
What eleem said is pressing no finisher outside dance except rupture refreshes
No i said to not eviscerate
You can refresh ruptures multiple times
Again no sims yet, but the numbers on the tier just seems so big it would feel kinda silly to go for a 15% chance to lose the equivalent of a flag for your burst window
fallow nimbus
Rupture everything then start rupturing everything again. This season could be the most degenerate one
random mason
Time to go ask the assa guys for tip on efficient nameplate setups huh
hazy breach
Its not much different from now tbf
Like i pulled up a random log here, and between 2:30 and 3:00 of kyveza he casted eviscerate twice
1 coup and 1 rupture
fallow nimbus
Make symbols give you a certain number of stacks on use and dance makes it so yo...
Yeah the 2pc should involve a rotation cd give stacks and 4pc does something with stacks when you use the major cd
Not this rng stacking and losing stuff
deft rain
have you guys seen nimble flurry not showing up in logs?
hazy breach
No
jaunty heath
No
Depends on the boss no?
If adds get excluded
E.g first boss
Prob won’t have nimble flurry in logs
hazy breach
Oh ye fair enough
jaunty heath
Idk haven’t raided since then but that would be my explanation
deft rain
interesting that could be why
yeah thats definetly it thanks guys
did not know adds getting excluded was a thing on logs
steel zinc
No i said to not eviscerate
Yes thats what I said you just press rupture
I also assume you just spam rupture to get dance cdr
and just keep tier bonus alive for dance phases
if this stays sub will probably be the most burst class in the game
like total degen stuff
random mason
did not know adds getting excluded was a thing on logs
There's votes on it every now and then to agree on excluding dmg to all or certain types of adds on fights, for example you could get webbed on ulgrax to farm cleave dmg for other ppl in your group if it wasn't excluded
Which is kinda stupid
hazy breach
You can purposefully let parasites infest on ovinax 
steel zinc
You can purposefully let parasites infest on ovinax <:Cheesin:100409433345831733...
that fight is so poorly designed fight
spark tusk
If the numbers stay like they are currently i'd be very surprised if its worth t...
Interesting, alright thanks, I'll keep an eye on it as sims develop
jaunty heath
if this stays sub will probably be the most burst class in the game
Now add smolderon type shi in this raid
Oh the degeneracy
steel zinc
Now add smolderon type shi in this raid
I mean if it stays like this sub will be the most broken thing ever
imagine a class that has 100% uptime on the melee tierset always in their cds
imagine a class that can control the gamba
Thats like casino hack stuff 😄
hazy breach
Well youre doing literally nothing outside dance
steel zinc
Well youre doing literally nothing outside dance
Yes ill miss backstabbing
We do probably feelcraft 80% of our dps in dance
jaunty heath
To be fair man everyone hates backstabbing outside of cds but at the same time it’s not like you are outside of dance or sod a lot
I don’t feel like I backstab that much in the end
steel zinc
gloomblade did on my best log this raid 3.27%
compare that to melee stabbing its 3.44%
jaunty heath
It’s total dogshit I don’t think anybody is arguing that
What I’m saying is ur not stabbing as much as its made out to be
steel zinc
ya
also bs does 0 damage
like its obvs thats just their to get you cp
is the tier set already implemented into ptr sim?
like the lines I forgot for the tierset
alpine wraith
yo will still stab
hazy breach
We do probably feelcraft 80% of our dps in dance
Its like 66-70% right now as deathstalker
Closer to 75-77% as trickster
alpine wraith
just once every once in a while
hazy breach
Going of some random top logs on kyveza
hazy breach
is the tier set already implemented into ptr sim?
Its not implemented into the PTR to begin with
steel zinc
yo will still stab
yes you will stab
alpine wraith
funnily enough this might feel better tbh
steel zinc
but will be weird to get cdr via rupture only and not evis
although doesnt matter that much
just sub will be the only one to be able to control the rng
Bro that would be so nice
vestal escarp
gotta say that i'd rather we had the means to hard afk mid dances
and not this rupture thing
steel zinc
and not this rupture thing
You need a finisher for the cdr that doesnt trigger losing your stacks
that is rupture
vestal escarp
because you're pretending to do nothing while pretending to do something
vestal escarp
you're twice cringe for no reason
steel zinc
because we dont evis outside dances
tribal blade
Now i pretty much need to play with premades and I havent really made enough con...
yeah that's the story of this season
this was one of those seasons where a LOT of people were adding to btag and i was getting spammed messages to play
did i just read we're going to be avoiding losing the 2pc stacks by only pressing rupture or snd before going into dance
wind canopy
random mason
did i just read we're going to be avoiding losing the 2pc stacks by only pressin...
Seems to be consensus if it goes live like this
tribal blade
Seems to be consensus if it goes live like this
honestly not surprised considering how insane the numbers for the 4pc are
MORE DEGEN GAMEPLAY REVOLVING AROUND OUR TIER PIECE woo
steel zinc
honestly not surprised considering how insane the numbers for the 4pc are
This is the most insane imo ever
This will go live
its sub nr1
tribal blade
60% shadow dmg in dance
that's literally triple the sectec dmg from the 4pc this tier
(if it even works with sectec)
but we have to play DS
which is cringe
tribal blade
i really hope so
oh right trickster does have shifted damage into dance yeah
do you think this would alter coup rules
tribal blade
Idk depends on if coup counts as an eviscerate for 2p
oh dear god you're right
surely it doesn't because it doesn't give snd
steel zinc
Idk depends on if coup counts as an eviscerate for 2p
ok ptr rn it doesnt
but nothing is working
so idk
hazy breach
The bonus amp from the 2p works on regular eviscerates atleast
steel zinc
The bonus amp from the 2p works on regular eviscerates atleast
Ok then if I get sub working on ptr (played full vanilla no addons) I can test it
every coup I use just get a critical game error
hazy breach
Idk dont remember if i checked coup
steel zinc
Idk dont remember if i checked coup
But nice cook you came up with there
you think we use snd also as cdr?
hazy breach
No point to use snd if you can use rupture instead
steel zinc
No point to use snd if you can use rupture instead
but we wont have any snd uptime outside of dances
because we dont press evis
steel zinc
Should be dancing atleast once a minute
True yeah but our opener we still do our evis to get snd rolling or just instantly send instead of the evis a raw snd?
also would be delay cds until we reach stacks in the opener?
steel zinc
Ok
tribal blade
@hazy breach random question, in aoe when you send a naked sectec without symbols before cds come back up do you bother to stab twice to use the free UB procs
i usually stab twice but it feels like you turbo brick your energy doing it
hazy breach
Idk i usually wouldnt even bother with the sectech, but prob stab ye
Unseen does a fair bit
tribal blade
cool cool
hazy breach
I dont think it matters that much either way
Its mostly for the extra cp on ST you'd send that naked sectech
tribal blade
very true, i think it's just a mental thing not being able to fill gcds when that happens
alpine wraith
yea energy is not a plenty there
tribal blade
i've been trying to optimize a bit what to do when i know i have time before i send the next cd set
although this feels like a low key problem
higher keys you run into this a lot less
haughty mural
every coup I use just get a critical game error
round latch
every coup I use just get a critical game error
its another indication that my gut feeling about coup is not wrong
i hate the spell
i hate how it animates,how it procs,what it does
void hound
dev notes soon fellow rogues ! critical levels of copium
rocky ocean
gouge rework
tribal blade
i hate how it animates,how it procs,what it does
it's one of the most strangely cobbled together spells in the game for sure
tribal blade
coup killed me in DB the other day, i was so mad
i hit coup straight into a frontal, and as soon as i pressed the button i knew immediately what was going to happen
but too late
round latch
coup killed me several times,didnt like it at all since the first time for that exact thing
why would u design a skill to function like that
tribal blade
the entire thing is awkward
round latch
tribal blade
the fact that the damage goes out channelled kinda
round latch
so troll
round latch
tell me u are playing outlaw without telling me u are playing outlaw
deathlog parsing
tribal blade
the best part is not a single spec that has an ability like that actually likes it
i get to hear the WW in my raid pop off about it every now and again haa
round latch
they are gonna ''rework'' it in such a way that will keep us into an animationlock but remove the charge thing
ill hate it 50% less than currently do
half of infinite is still infinity
lilac stag
they are gonna ''rework'' it in such a way that will keep us into an animationlo...
They’ll just lock you into deathstalker. Enjoy!
round latch
They’ll just lock you into deathstalker. Enjoy!
i want trickster on a different final node,like make coup give like more dmg or akaari's soul interaction
ild love that so much for trickster
no parries,echoing strikes
keen dome
The charge not being mentioned anywhere on it is so silly.
Just remove the charge element! Big improvement
keen dome
Same
round latch
just needs a gentle touch here and there
keen dome
More purple
lilac stag
sub has so much potential man
copypasta since 2017-11-03
keen dome
imagine if coup de grace didn't charge, but did a "nothing personal, kid" teleport backstab thing for sub
This would still kill you, but it'd be cool
rocky ocean
they should replace coup with killing spree
lilac stag
They should replace rogue.
keen dome
with rouge?
tribal blade
or at least something the devs want to work on
we hear you, here's a rework to sap
rogue dev cycle done
lilac stag
rogue utility!
tribal blade
since there's nostalgia around rogue during vanilla we reworked sap to pull you out of stealth again like it worked originally
💯
alpine wraith
and now mobs can resist your opener too
and distract can pull
randomly because fuck you
lilac stag
I’m at the point where I think sub rogue is viewed like the AH rework. No one wants to actually touch it since code wise it is held together by like four 20 year old pieces of thread.
alpine wraith
there are still secuela from last time they tried to touch stealth shit
they had to finally end NS misery
oh and sepsis too
and same thing with sec tech and pet things
likely in bfa someone drunk as f made it
keen dome
bring back Akaari
alpine wraith
then left the company
keen dome
bring back the 22nd raider
west arch
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shy ermine
How does it make any sense, or fit into the class fantasy, for secret technique to come from another source and count as pet damage
I’d like to speak to the person who had that idea
lilac stag
Reminder when it was introduced there was nothing for it. Just secret. If I had to guess they tried to bandaid it in with time constraints based only the only shit visual they could quickly add.
Nearly all of sub rogues development changes feel reactionary to time constraints vs planned out
no one plays the spec. Attention not given due to play rate.
Rinse & Repeat.
tribal blade
the novel idea is
if they actually spent a lot of time working on sub
more people would play it likely
vale pine
no one plays the spec. Attention not given due to play rate.
Rinse & Repeat.
i am not sure thats the case
tribal blade
but then again arcane mage exists
keen dome
Next week. Sixteen paragraphs of changes. The blessed day comes.
tribal blade
Next week. Sixteen paragraphs of changes. The blessed day comes.
i think i said this 2 weeks ago now 😭
keen dome
If i keep saying it every week, I'm eventually going to be right.
fallow nimbus
Next week. Sixteen paragraphs of changes. The blessed day comes.
16 over the course of the ptr (mostly removed pvp stuff and word changes 
)
grand wyvern
remember that you asked for it when the changes are gonna be all nerfs
keen dome
I convinced someone to play Sub rogue today so I am doing my part. Eventually there'll be enough of us.
vestal escarp
Day and night cant stop thinking about cycle of hatred and how it could translate into deepening
vale pine
I convinced someone to play Sub rogue today so I am doing my part. Eventually th...
i keep playing it, its still the most fun to play of the 3 rogue specs.
keen dome
Same, big agree.
I survived BfA as a Sub. I'll survive the heat death of the universe as a Sub.
swift tinsel
Unless they do something to completely break up the gameplay of trickster, I'm gonna keep at it
Plus I get all rogue loot in raid lol
hazy breach
Wanting vers mastery loot is great
Nobody else wants this shit so you just say "hey thats good for me" while everybody else pukes because a neck with those stats suck ass for them
Very neat
swift tinsel
Did they take the new raid/m+ season out of the ptr dungeon journal? Wanted to look at a few things and its all s1 stuff
void hound
I convinced someone to play Sub rogue today so I am doing my part. Eventually th...
i made a whole ass infographic for german subs who prog ansurek, so probably 10 people in total 😭
keen dome
That owns, though, hell yeah
keen dome
sacred yarrow
I cant be half assed to learn a new spec ever, I like my sub 
vale pine
Wanting vers mastery loot is great
most specs want a lot of haste
people get all angry about a high haste item dropping and 15/16 players complain why they don't get their bis/upgrade
jaunty heath
hi guys i just reached my sub rogue to lvl 80 today and geared it to 587ilvl do u have any tips on how i can improve my damage overall
i mostly pump in boss fights, in aoe its kind awkward
not sure if im doin smth wrong
sacred yarrow
have you had a read through the guides available in #subtlety-faq ? Very well written with lots of tips and knowledge!
swift tinsel
7 and 10 stacks of Winning Streak seems to be the most popular within opener, gonna do a couple hundred tests to hone in a bit
Rewatching FMA:Brotherhood so I've got time to kill lol
Also Azerokk in opener is ~28% atm
jaunty heath
have you had a read through the guides available in <#856897746128207892> ? Very...
yup reading it right now, i think my AoE rotation was fked up tbh
it says i have to pop Shadow blades aswell in aoe
which i never do
whats generally better deathstalker or trickster
swift tinsel
Trickster generally
jaunty heath
deathstalker is like DoTs based more?
vale pine
7 and 10 stacks of Winning Streak seems to be the most popular within opener, go...
did they fix the tier set on ptr?
swift tinsel
It hasn't been dropping, but I've mostly been testing how many stacks you can get in the opener this morning
also rupture ticks can add stacks
vale pine
both are very similar, deathstalker is a bit more suatined dps with more damage in black powder, rupture, etc
swift tinsel
for sub
vale pine
trickster is more burst
swift tinsel
https://tenor.com/view/fma-fullmetal-alchemist-elrick-gif-4987810
new record, 10 stacks in 13 seconds lol
fallow nimbus
You should stop before you can't anymore. Ask hachadino about his highest crit
swift tinsel
Lol there's no controlling for 2pc stack time
I'm purely at the whims of RNJesus
Had one cursed opener so far that stayed at 2 stacks for the full duration of flag/blades
I really wish the reset was in so I could see how often you drop stacks between main cd window and sectech at ~30sec
but atm it looks like you're chillin if youre going into cooldowns with 2-3 stacks (still ironing out percentages)
vale pine
Lol there's no controlling for 2pc stack time
think thats the theme of the raid
randomness/gambling seems a core fantasy/idea of 11.1
swift tinsel
it goes against everything I like about having a relative sense of agency over my damage lol
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kGrm6yRCzajUn4ad4m0e2JXi4yRh9JNaUBH-uPerFR8/edit?gid=2109180262#gid=2109180262 tier testing sheet if anyone is curious
mortal bane
This is just me thinking out loud but I wonder if sending one round of dance/symbols/SecTec bofore running into you main CD's might be worth it. You would almost be guaranteed 10 stacks and if done right you wont loose them either. Just a thought. Although not an appealing one.
flat cypress
is there a weakaura that shows when flawless form is active?
swift tinsel
!wa
swift tinsel
most of those packs should have one
fallow nimbus
This is just me thinking out loud but I wonder if sending one round of dance/sym...
Trickster could do that i think. After the opener trickster does another small set. Maybe it's worth it to put that before cds, but it means delaying cds and more factors are needed to be worth it
swift tinsel
the further you push past the 30 second mark, the more likely you are to run into boss mechanics
so delaying cd's doesn't sound appealing
fallow nimbus
If we really go for a no eviscerate use between dances then it could be worth it to prestack the 2pc with 1 dance if it doesn't cost a cd usage
swift tinsel
Considering its averaging ~22 seconds to full stack the 2pc in flag/blades I don't see it worth it to dance pre-cd's
fallow nimbus
Yeah, mechanics could fuck you up but every 5min sim isn't accounting for that
fallow nimbus
The big dmg of your cds is around 18 secs long
swift tinsel
how, blades is only 16 seconds
mortal bane
If you did one round of dance first you would still have double dance for blades and you could start your big CD's most likely around 15s into fight. This could be tested on PTR. If this is even close to the same damage as a normal opening this may be a thing once the shadow damage part of the tier works
fallow nimbus
You use blade after sectec and the strike before that can potentially proc hiddenblade
woeful egret
I've been living behind a rock, how we lookin in ptr?
fallow nimbus
That's where i would start our dmg window, with dance
hallow ice
!log
swift tinsel
If you did one round of dance first you would still have double dance for blades...
With the normal variance its been stacking to 10 just about as often as it does with a normal opener, around a similar window within the cooldown window
just too much rng with the tier set in general, 13-26 second is the current range I've gotten from just the opener
from 0-10 stacks is something like 13-57 seconds playing normal st rotation
that's a massive range
do not like
uneven scarab
no
swift tinsel
Another issue I can foresee is losing stacks anyways bc you have to send finishers between pre-cd dance/etc and cd's to have sectech up
otherwise you're delaying flag/blades by 20+ seconds
sacred yarrow
i couldnt keep it away, I must press it to flush out cps 
fallow nimbus
Another issue I can foresee is losing stacks anyways bc you have to send finishe...
Use rupture
rocky ocean
use slice and dice
fallow nimbus
If you play like normal you 100% will have situations where you lose the stacks before your cds and your dmg tanks
That's why, once everything works, the tc's will cook
swift tinsel
if we end up playing rupture/snd as only finishers outside dance I'm def not playing sub lol
prisma void
bind cold blood to secret tec for real?
swift tinsel
and cb 2nd sectech
so you'd have a macro for both then a naked sectech bind
if you don't wanna hard cast both
same keybind # either way
prisma void
got it
swift tinsel
in general, macros don't really do a whole lot for sub gameplay wise
as far as regular rotation
uneven scarab
You use cb on ur 2nd sectech during cd’s
plush roost
2nd because your flagellation is maxed out
uneven scarab
Bc of flag stacks
swift tinsel
spending supercharger on rupture makes me want to cry
uneven scarab
maxed out damage on st
hazy breach
Some flag but mostly flawless form
swift tinsel
Yeah, people were asking if it was worth to delay flag/blades in opener to try and game tier stacks
hazy breach
Maybe if you know exact fight timings and arent losing casts for it
But still probably not
swift tinsel
seems to stack decently well in cooldowns so having a couple of stacks would be fine going in, but not gamebreaking if you have zero outside of a few niche pulls
mortal bane
Thanks for checking out the pre dance flag idea. 54s is a long time. So now I back to thinking rupture/S&D between Dances. At least leading up to your flag/blades windows. Also am I reading the tier right. Basically 60% more damage with 10stacks? Well when they fix the shadow part.
swift tinsel
I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being no evisc at ~15-20 seconds before flag, or similar to how we treat sectech currently
then you aren't wasting supercharger on rupture
bc you never sod without sectech
regular dances probably won't matter as much
you still add stacks from autos and rupture ticks so you're getting passive ones regularly
mortal bane
Well I am really hoping there is no weird rotation stuff. I currently like how sub plays at the moment. One questions. Assuming transmitter gets nerfed is using the two double on use trinkets going to be the way to go?
swift tinsel
hard to say atm
frozen gyro
Assasin main here. Have not played other 2 specs before but i am intrigued by them especial sub. Is sub viable in pug raids and m+. Does it have the aoe for m+?
steel zinc
Well I am really hoping there is no weird rotation stuff. I currently like how s...
If transmitter stays like this you won't replace it until middle of mythic progression
swift tinsel
which is extremely unlikely given how strong transmitter is across the board
worn ivy
Next season double caster season in m+ gg wp cya next expansion.
swift tinsel
We have access to decent passive trinkets
steel zinc
Assasin main here. Have not played other 2 specs before but i am intrigued by th...
Wdym by viable? Can u get title as sub in m+ yes is it more difficult then assa yes. Does sin as sub do really the same dps st yes.
swift tinsel
and on-use will probably depend on fight timers/vuln phases/etc
steel zinc
which is extremely unlikely given how strong transmitter is across the board
They will probably nerf spymaster and transmitter although both bis for mage so won't nerf it since mages are the main char of wow
swift tinsel
you misspelt shaman
steel zinc
you misspelt shaman
Nah shaman is never been this good other then some niche fights. Mage is always good or minimum viable
mortal bane
I have looked at all the tier sets. I really think that if the sub set works as intended its going to be very strong. I have a couple guildy's already gearing up rogues if this is the case.
swift tinsel
The tricky part will be works as intended
bc blizz doesn't have a great track record with that
esp for sub
and rogue in general
mortal bane
Yes agreed.
hazy breach
Well I am really hoping there is no weird rotation stuff. I currently like how s...
Hard to tell, but were probably just playing damage trinkets
Maybe the deck is fine for certain boss timings
But like for pure sim dps its prob just passives
Hard to tell atm though
swift tinsel
Wax whistle/Zee's Thug Hotline were doing good passive damage compared to the rest, only did a handful of tests for those so far
in st
uneven scarab
goonsquad 
keen dome
Wax whistle/Zee's Thug Hotline were doing good passive damage compared to the re...
I really hope the Hotline remains consistently good.
swift tinsel
Gooners leading passive aoe dmg so far
hazy breach
But if the whole "no finishers outside dance" things ends up being a thing, possible we just stick with transmitter anyway
swift tinsel
and the obvious garbage meteor
still doing obscene damage
loses value on any fight with frequent boss movement
the goon squad switch between st and aoe abilities depending on what you're fighting which is super cool
swift tinsel
there's a rogue who stabs and storms, big brute dude who does a whirlwind, and a sniper but I don't remember what their thing is in aoe
and you can have multiple out at a time in and out of bloodlust
very neat trinket
keen dome
Finally, friends on proc.
swift tinsel
if they individually scale with vers, would be quite cool
vale pine
But if the whole "no finishers outside dance" things ends up being a thing, poss...
unless it gets nerfed
hazy breach
Ye or how much it gets nerfed
swift tinsel
was almost a 40% nerf for puzzle box so I wouldn't be surprised if its something in that ballpark
kind bluff
I like transmitter but it's annoying on some fights. Not gonna be to upset to replace it.
swift tinsel
IQD was 25% or something like that iirc
hallow ice
can anyone look at my log give me feedback on how im performing what i can do better
i made a log thread review but dono walled
molten citrus
i made a log thread review but dono walled
things have been a bit slow lately, might have to be a little patient but someone may take a peak if they get time 
flat cypress
should i go trickster or deathstalker if i wanna do big aoe dps?
jaunty umbra
how big
flat cypress
like pull the entire dungeon in 1 pull big
near junco
Do mouseover macro's not work on raidframes and target frames? My shadowstep macro doesn't seem to work for it, only when actually clicking on a player model
THis is the macro:
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, nodead, exists][@target, nodead, exists][@player] Shadowstep
I mean, I know they should work on raidframes, since healers do it, but this one doesn't for some reason
molten citrus
I mean, I know they should work on raidframes, since healers do it, but this one...
maybe the same problem mentioned here?
near junco
Yeah, it's indeed on a mouse button
That's annoying
That button is muscle memory by now so that's super frustrating
oh wait, the "click casting" thing worked in the keybindings, awesome
molten citrus
oh wait, the "click casting" thing worked in the keybindings, awesome
glad you could get it sorted
another way is just remapping mouse buttons to keyboard buttons through hotkeys i think
near junco
whole new world now
near junco
<a:NODDERS:911410761702727750>
Thanks a lot for that, game changer!
molten citrus
np
swift tinsel
as it stands, theres about a 5% chance you have 10 stacks for 2nd sectech
more runs after lunch
vale pine
as it stands, theres about a 5% chance you have 10 stacks for 2nd sectech
sounds low
swift tinsel
Yeah, gonna keep going but I doubt it’ll be much higher with standard opener cooldown cadence
It’s interesting, you’re either getting 10 stacks 10-13 seconds or 22-25 seconds into combat
I don’t think there’s any instances in the 80 openers I’ve got so far that are anywhere between 13 and 20
Avoiding the 18 second 2nd sectech lol
viral jacinth
Anyone knows why the add in NW last boss is evading me and going into a wall + snapping upstairs?
swift tinsel
Trickster Tricks of the Trade bugs it out
alpine wraith
if you play the 1h tricks it bugs
hallow ice
anyone mind giving me some feedback on my sub gameplay
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hyTVgtzBf378NpWw?fight=2&type=casts&source=16&view=timeline
idle musk
Hi all, just swapped from outlaw to sub and I have the hero talent to have tricks of the trade be an hour but I just had a tank tell me it was targeting me and not them. Am I losing my mind or is it working as intended
swift tinsel
anyone mind giving me some feedback on my sub gameplay
https://www.warcraftlogs...
You kinda scuffed your second big cd window by sending a sectech right before it
Which is a good way to lose a lot of damage
hazy breach
Hi all, just swapped from outlaw to sub and I have the hero talent to have trick...
Not sure exactly what youre asking, but yes it works
swift tinsel
Also double SoD at one point so you lost a charge
idle musk
Not sure exactly what youre asking, but yes it works
Okay cool. I thought so but the tank was saying I was targeting myself with it which he said should not even be possible but I was targeting him and I was confused. Never noticed it when I was playing outlaw since it only lasts 6 seconds
kind bluff
Hi all, just swapped from outlaw to sub and I have the hero talent to have trick...
The buff will pop up on ourself and the symbol for it sits above ur head. But it will be on ur target and even persist on them through death.
idle musk
The buff will pop up on ourself and the symbol for it sits above ur head. But it...
ah ty. I bet that is why there was confusion on both my side and the tank's side. Seeing it for an hour rather than the normal 6 sec definitely is odd
hallow ice
You kinda scuffed your second big cd window by sending a sectech right before it
so hold secret tech when cds are coming back up?
viral girder
Hit 610 and got to upgrades today from my brothers raid group. Feeling alot more confident this week. I got the rotations down now I feel like
😄
I got the haste/mastery boots that I was able to change into verse/mastery boots thankfully. And a verse mastery belt upgrade from vet to hero
Really glad I decided to get the rogue up during time walking
twilit phoenix
when's the ideal time to pick up transmitter?
right as you're about to hit your first sec tech?
hazy breach
so hold secret tech when cds are coming back up?
You only sectech during dance, and you want two dances and two symbols in every blades/flag window
Using it 5 seconds before your burst is gonna make it so you cant use two of those during cds
viral girder
Thats prob the main issue im having. Even though im consistently getting 800-900k DPS, im firing off a lot of blank secret Techniques.
Well not so much blank but without cold blade. I try to atleast do it when I have symbols/dance up
I figured "eh im getting cp up so fast to reset its cd i can afford to use it without cold blood every time"
swift tinsel
You don't cold blood every sectech so that's normal
viral girder
So im doing fine then in that regard
swift tinsel
There's basically two ways to approach cold blood
you can macro it to sectech and it'll send whenever its off cooldown
viral girder
Thats what I do
swift tinsel
or you use it with the 2nd sectech in flag/blades
and time it around that
and only use it that way, unless you use it exactly on cooldown between flag windows
spark tusk
keep in mind using it doesn'tput it on cd
you can only activate it on the cd on the dot
swift tinsel
^
spark tusk
it gets consumed and the cd begins when you cast your next ability
swift tinsel
so its really tight
spark tusk
Though I guess because it gets consumed by any ability
it's not much of a deal
more of a deal for FB sin where the usage is only consumed by env
either way, I just have 2 sectec buttons, one with and one without cb
and I just press the normal one normally, then press the cb one for my second sectec in cds
swift tinsel
Same, its super easy to manage that way
spark tusk
It feels like during your cds your final sectec is your finale of sorts
so it makes sense to me that it's a separate button
like if it were an entirely separate ability that is only available at the end of your cds
swift tinsel
With s2 tier set you'll likely have 7-10 stacks of winning streak for your 2nd sectech in flag so its not ideal but still a big hit
more testing is putting a 10 stack 2nd sectech ~7% of openers
Mode is 10, next highest are 7/8 stacks
spark tusk
🫡 thank you for your service
Though I worry about compiling this data in the first wave
swift tinsel
its been fun lol I have my 2nd monitor with the spreadsheet and FMA side-by-side lol
spark tusk
who knows how much they change
swift tinsel
yeah, I'm gonna cap at 200 tests just to get a general baseline
spark tusk
are you just logging it?
swift tinsel
nah, logs are being weird for me so I have a /stopwatch and WA's to track streak! with conditions and checking what stack count is by the time cd's drop, as well as the timestamp when it hits 10 stacks
spark tusk
nice
swift tinsel
also throwing in Azerokk's trinket to see how often its up for opener, noting times when it procs on the posterior
spark tusk
seems like you've got a system down, lmk if you want help with making anything for WA tracking
swift tinsel
Will do! It's been kinda fun so I'm gonna keep doing it any time they drop a new build
swift tinsel
swift tinsel
Yeah its trending on the higher end which is nice
seeing 2-3 stacks from cd's is still concerning
but I'm thinking atm that 2-3 stacks going into cooldowns outside of the opener being a cozy stack count
spark tusk
I guess it makes sense statistically that 10 is highest
because it's the cap
So all the cases that would bell-curve it on the other side get stuck at 10
swift tinsel
The ultimate gamba no-payoff set
spark tusk
are yall ready to pool up for your FOUR SECONDS of glory?
of 2 mutilates and an envenom
swift tinsel
it is funny to see it consume while also keeping your stacks