subtlety

[hazy breach]

No you need to have fazed up

When you coup

Regardless of what you do

Missing out on 15% finisher damage is way too big to miss out on

[grand wyvern]

i am used to hold it so i guarantee having fazed from sec tec, do you have to track fazed otherwise?

[hazy breach]

Well if you dont hold

You'll have fazed up 100%

Because the unseen blade that gives you the 4th stack procs it

[grand wyvern]

oh i see thanks

[sick jackal]

is tricks not just working? with trickster atm?

[fallow nimbus]

i wanted to pick a socket, now i have hero ritual knife in my vault

[sick jackal]

i died to melee with tricks on my tank twice

[swift tinsel]

can be a bit of a delay in threat transfer sometimes

did it happen on your first attack out of stealth?

[hazy breach]

The threat transfer takes a millisecond or two so if you step/shadowstrike in youll get glocked

[sick jackal]

faster than a ms we win those

[leaden prairie]

When outlaw could still use trickster tricks

I had 2 instances

Where it just didn't work at all

Not me just taking agro before, just taking agro back from tank during pack with Perma tricks on

This has never happened to me outside of when playing with trickster tricks

[pliant topaz]

you mean outlaw so broken it does so much damage! it caps out max aggro tanks can have and then takes more ? damn! nerf outlaw ig

[hazy breach]

nerf outlaw ig

[pliant topaz]

[leaden prairie]

Ys

[vale pine]

can usually just storm from a few steps away to prevent it

[hazy breach]

Ye

[vale pine]

eleem answered it already, but i probably should re-write the section a bit to be less confusing

[edgy zenith]

all good, rest easy GOAT. some guildie was asking about how to play Sub and I was like "bro don't ask me, too hard to explain, read a guide."

[vale pine]

the very top box i think explain everything good on a top level (i hope)

[solar ingot]

I know sub is a burst spec but does it fall off in higher target counts? I play trickster and didn’t know if black powder type pulls we are noticeably less bursty than when we can spam SS and evisc

[pliant topaz]

not sure how burst/target count are related tbh

but maybe you mean its dmaage doesnt linearly scale with target count?

which in that case thats almost all specs in the game

like a larget part of your damage is sectech, which is capped

black powder, which is capped

rupture, which you wouldnt have running on all mobs when theres 15 mobs

[pliant topaz]

@wind canopy MSI in vancouver! lets gooooooooo

[patent crystal]

a boss dying mid / 2sec before mandate cast feels so bad

[wind canopy]

I guess im coming up there

[pliant topaz]

we're so back

[round latch]

Managed to reach a respectable state on my ponytails https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cLVNEwJzdLpALwGXsa5JBb

maybe if i change some enchants and gems could go higher but im very fine with how it is

prolly gonna do some keys to push my puny 3k and rng some better wpns

[edgy zenith]

oh shit are you a non-raider?

that must be rough this patch for Sub

[round latch]

i didnt like the tier ye

[edgy zenith]

no transmitter would make me not like the game more I think

but I feel that

[round latch]

ive managed to get to this state both my mage and my rogue afterwards

im actually ok with myself

vast majority of keys is sin btw

[wind canopy]

I'll have to talk to some buddies about it, but think I'll at least go to some of the KO stages and then spend a day there

[pliant topaz]

sure lmk!

2026 worlds is in NA too

gonna be fun

also mashallah wtf are they creating with mel???? shit seems beyond broken from 1 ability theyve shown so far

[strange chasm]

Yeah that spell reflect is kinda crazy lmao

[pliant topaz]

kinda?

bro u can reflect renata R

nami R

nami bubble

probably TF w

its fuckign stupid

[strange chasm]

Thank goodness we have 5 bans 😄

[pliant topaz]

mashallah

can you imagine this shit in pro play? thank god with fearless it can only ever go through once

[strange chasm]

It'll be on a long enough cc and short enough though that it'll be skill expression

Example Fioras W is insanely broken but requires skill

[pliant topaz]

this is like 10 times better than fiora W

but liek even if the cd is long, like does that matter? its like a better version of sylas ult which also has a long dc

cd

like when is enemy renata going to R? when theres a very good opportunity for her to get a big R. and u just return that and enemy doenst expect renata r on them so theyre not positioned for it and they all die

cinema

[uneven fern]

fiora W that auto aims

🎦

[pliant topaz]

i mean u can immune jinx ult with fiora W

u cant ULT THEM BCK

HELLO

?

[strange chasm]

I don't think it will be that bad. In certain situations itll be bonkers. Also Fiora can parry ignite which is crazy

[pliant topaz]

I thin its gonna be a nightmare of a check again. like zeri and ksante

where its absurd in pro and they have to nerf them 9 patches in a row

or azir

where they just removed half his kit

and its still sus

in pro

[uneven scarab]

Ksante on release

2 tapping carries full tank

[pliant topaz]

bro still does that

theres a pobelter clip where he tries to kill a ksante at 5%hp with his jungler and htey both end up getting dove by the 5% hp ksante and die

[uneven scarab]

Fucks sake

Riot games and massive power creep

[pliant topaz]

the whole time hes screaming HES HEALING MORE OFF ME THAN IM DOING DAMAGE TO HIM

[uneven scarab]

Hand in hand since 2010

[pliant topaz]

bro took 0 damage and was legit healing

[uneven scarab]

HAHAH

[pliant topaz]

200 years of cinema

[uneven scarab]

game is great

I remember when old fiora was the most overloaded kit in the game

Her old ult is nothing now compared to some of the shit in this game

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/homero-homer-marge-cine-cinema-gif-889264968458370239

[pliant topaz]

i mean back then they really had no idea what some things meant

they had very little understanding of impact of things, and as people got better, even the smallest things became very real sources of power

like small things like old janna passive which was just a global ms buff was like a what 8-9% win rate diff?

like they reworked just hte passive i remember she dropped 9% in wr

[uneven scarab]

Sword of the occult how i miss you

[pliant topaz]

good old tf passive 2-6 gold

global xp on zil passive

[hazy breach]

The xp

Was so fucking whack

[uneven scarab]

Doesnt tf still have that as part of his passive?

[pliant topaz]

yea

[hazy breach]

Ye for himself

Not for the entire team

[uneven scarab]

Oh yeah u right

They changed it to solo

Meanwhile

Nasus same passive 15 years

[pliant topaz]

but they learned how these passive things are super broken

[uneven scarab]

[pliant topaz]

and theyre creating champs with very clear breakpoints for skill levels

like you look at ksantes kit and your elike yeah this sucks in silver but my god its broken with skilled enough player s

which i kinda like at least, because htey can tune for skill brackets

[uneven scarab]

I miss season 4-5

Those were the times

[pliant topaz]

i just dont like how absurd tanks and bruisers are and how weak assassins aer

other than that i think games dope

like this is what my friend said this morning (hes a support main)

like you go to august and hes like yeah mundo is a noob stomper, only really strong in low elo, and then mundos litearlly 1v9ing in masters / gm lobby

[uneven scarab]

Actually so accurate tho

I get his pain

Their tft balance team does a pretty good job, but ive never really been able to say the same for league

[pliant topaz]

league balance is fine though, as in, you can realistically climb as any champion to really really high ranks

it just might take a lot longer on some champs

like right now i feel like if enemy team hs a lot of cc / 2+ tanks i cannot carry as zed

so im starting to 2 trick zed/lb to win now

zed just feels real bad in some of these lobbies like i have almost no impact

[grand wyvern]

dota in the golden age had 100+ heroes viable at extreme top levels

[pliant topaz]

but i stll got to 190lp masters just playing zed

[pliant topaz]

i mean so does league

u can find almost all champs played even in challenger

but the amount of impact goes down as you go higher in skill brackets

[grand wyvern]

i never saw 100 heroes played at world but i don't follow from a long time now

[pliant topaz]

thats kinda irrelevent though

like what do you play in worlds?

litearlly the litearl best

but youll see 60+ champs now in worlds

since theyre doing fearless

[grand wyvern]

dota had 100 heroes played in the international, that's how nutty close balance was

[pliant topaz]

idk game was also a lot less optimized back then

[hazy breach]

They were getting like 60 champs without fearless arent they

[pliant topaz]

like you look at super old MYM games

and tis like ah eys these guys couldnt win a high ish enough ranked game

[grand wyvern]

anyway i didn't want to start any wars

[pliant topaz]

i think they were yeah but its gauranteed now

cant wait to see faker nasus mid

cinema

[hazy breach]

Should be 100+ with fearless

[pliant topaz]

probably yeah

its gonna be weird though ebcause theres not that many ADCs they could realistically play

so theyre gonna be donig some weird shit

anyways, surely 11.1 dev notes today

[uneven scarab]

Idk ever since like morde/veigar/swain botlane became insane

[pliant topaz]

remember the predictions:
rogue:

• get fucked

[uneven scarab]

My interest fell off alot

[pliant topaz]

they nerfed armor across the board for all mages so hteyre not played as much in botlane

[uneven scarab]

Good

[pliant topaz]

except ziggs and ap kogmaw

[uneven scarab]

that i can deal with honestly

Ziggs has been a historical botlane pick anyway

[pliant topaz]

im a huge ziggs hater

[uneven scarab]

but mages in adc role was just too much for me(as an adc player)

[pliant topaz]

bros just istting in narnia throwing bombs like i dont erven see this guy

how am i gettin ghit

[uneven scarab]

LMAO

yeah man

My other thing is

The aram balance stuff they did

Is so god awful

its really bad

[pliant topaz]

im trying to learn leblanc so I can 2 trick zed/lb found a guide form r1 world lb one trick

bro made an 8 hour video

on lb

CINEMA

[uneven scarab]

ziggs with a -30% damage buff in aram

Bro how can you even manage to talk about lb for that long

wtf

[pliant topaz]

idk ill let you know once im done with it at the end of work day LOL

[uneven scarab]

Bobqin video?

goat leblanc player right there

I could see him yapping for 8 hours

[pliant topaz]

nah mysteria

i think hes current r1? or close to it idk

i know theres a challenger lb main in kr

but i dont thnk hes a one trick

[wind canopy]

Without watching it, I’m guessing it’s just gameplay mainly and talking through how they play her during it

[void hound]

finally full 🍊 parses

how much i despise deathstalker

[sick jackal]

planning this exact same thing can you send me a link?

[viral girder]

Who can weak aura help me

I'll try myself first but ye

I just want a simple timer on my poisons

I make my buff bar so small and out of the way its hard to monitor because of the being littered with like 1023910239012 3buffs and not wanting to sort through them so if its an important buff I normally just weakaura it

[round latch]

./wa=>template=>mid icon=>buffs=>poisons=>always show/grey when missing=>anchor wherever u want them=>save

u are welcome

[hard plaza]

so just out of curiosity

since we are not getting 90s on use next season

is there a possibility that we will use 2 passives or a 3 min?

[hazy breach]

Theres no 3 min

[hard plaza]

2 min is just too cooked...

[swift tinsel]

Just a str 3min that’s absolutely going to get people killed lol

Does so much damage off the rip it’s bound to pull aggro and murder people

[hazy breach]

Prob just running damage trinkets

[alpine wraith]

yea something like kezan and anotehr busted one

[hazy breach]

(assuming transmitter gets nerfed)

[alpine wraith]

maybe some bosses have special timings and we play deck on those

[hazy breach]

Otherwise prob that until late mythic ilvl

[swift tinsel]

Just play deck like a 3min since it ramps each use

Eye will be good until kill timers start getting low

Still a solid amount of agi

[alpine wraith]

you can just play kaja on the shorter ones

[grand wyvern]

i don't understand this, wouldn't you want to use it as many times as possible to benefit from the ramp? playing it like 3 min you wouldn't ramp much

[vale pine]

blizz typically does not like us to use old tier trinkets

so i already see transmitter nerfs

[viral girder]

That just looks confusing in my head

Also looking at my brother having transmitter on his enhance shaman.... I wouldnt like it

I dont need to be playing mini games in my burst windows

I would mess up the opener or trinket waaaaaaaay too much for it to ever be worth usinng

[hazy breach]

Well ye but using it outside cds means it doesnt do anything

10k mastery outside dance might aswell not be a thing

Ig its during one dance but still

[grand wyvern]

i get that but it being a ramp trinket just makes it worse

[round latch]

how is that confusing.Its a simple wa,the simpliest u can get.U can even make it a smaller icon and anchor it wherever u want

there is nothing complicated about it and never shines to distract u

u wanted a simple aura,thats the textbook simpliest wa u can create

[uneven scarab]

Welcome to retail

you gotta do the clown dance before you’re allowed to do damage

witherbark branch was worse tbh

[lucid lily]

How? The orbs just came to you.

[uneven scarab]

You had to time when you picked them up specifically

and there was 3 of them

[viral girder]

I am extremely easy to distract

[uneven scarab]

Compared to just any of the transmitter ones

Transmitter is less headache to me

[lucid lily]

I remember, but I still liked that more than chasing the transmitter orb

Or jumping

[uneven scarab]

well yeah orb is the worst one easily

[lucid lily]

Platform is chill

[uneven scarab]

But stand/jump is free

[viral girder]

Like... SUPER easy to distract and never been a fan of the on use trinkets.

[lucid lily]

I’m over the mini game trinkets in general

[uneven scarab]

Lock in brother

Id much rather have these gamba trinkets over the mini game ones so

Im with u there

[viral girder]

Like void contract is good.
Its a great trinket that does its damage without me having to think or play a minigame or stress. It just. Happens.

[round latch]

cant help u more than that friend,i dont rly know anything simplier than that after 20 years on this game,cooking my own auras,for the most part

[viral girder]

The more you throw at me to do , the more chances of fuck up

[uneven scarab]

What i think is stupid is how strong spymasters is, has no mini-game

But nooo agi/str users

Do ur clown dance!!!

[viral girder]

Yeah my brthers been pugging heroic on his mage every week and still has yet to see spymaster

[lucid lily]

The drop rate on that thing is obnoxious. Only one of our mages got it at all in heroic

[viral girder]

Thankfully... I live buy a "use what I get. I dont care what it is, stats are stats"

[uneven scarab]

Yeah took our ele sham until aotc was cleared to get his first one

[viral girder]

My bars feel naked. Im missing a spot

[uneven scarab]

Perfect spot for an on use trinket

[viral girder]

Thats what I was thinking

But I dont have one

[lucid lily]

rip

[uneven scarab]

I also use that same icon for my macro

based

[viral girder]

Im just using what ever the showtooltip shows first

Which macro you talking about lmao

[uneven scarab]

The one u have on Q

[viral girder]

Oh yeah thats my cast sequence shadowmeld into shadowstike macro

[uneven scarab]

Yeah i have that for my st+cb macro

I just like the icon

[viral girder]

The pseudo stealth for shadowmeld is weird

[lucid lily]

Old sub talent tree icon

[viral girder]

It puts me into stealth to be able to shadowstrike

But it doesnt do the teleport version of shadowstrike

[uneven scarab]

Yeah meld is like half stealth

Not true stealth

The way it works is weird

[viral girder]

Like if im on the back of the target its nice to just pop it and get that quick shadowstrike off for points if I cant shadowdance

But outside of that, ye lmao

[lucid lily]

I’ve only ever used that macro in PvP

[uneven scarab]

Ive never played a nelf

undead/human only on my rogue

[lucid lily]

I have a NE rogue alt that I run bgs with

[viral girder]

I had one set up for a quick cheapshot too but I dont cheap shot enough to warrant using that one so deleted it

So instead I just have this

If im in shadow dance it does cheap shot. If not it does kidney

Stupid simple

[lucid lily]

Oh I like that. I keep kidney and cheap on the same spot on my main bar and stealth bar

[pliant topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEsgMi1XSdY&ab_channel=CoachMysterias

[teal prawn]

If you have it stealth you after you can get the full stealth benefits. Obviously won’t work on a boss tho

[sick jackal]

ty

[viral girder]

Yeah its more there for emergency CP during a fight

[teal prawn]

I see I see

[wind canopy]

Damn, this is really thorough

[twilit phoenix]

if you land on 5 in dance, do you build again?

[hot plaza]

looking through sample ability log the rotation looks prefect throughout apart from these sets of 3 backstabs radomly through any idea what they are for pls guys?simmed 5 targets 5 mins? ty ❤️

[hollow spear]

Probably fishing for flawless form

Wait, no

It's up? Hard to see on my phone screen

[uneven scarab]

its just building to max cp before flag

You always wanna max cp -> flag -> finisher

[hot plaza]

awesome ty guys ❤️

[uneven scarab]

Probably was fishing for flawless tho

Cuz not sure why it backstabbed over storm

[hollow spear]

Isn't it already up tho? Because if it was, then that would be going against the apl in our guides.

https://tenor.com/view/funny-cant-see-cant-read-meme-ken-jeong-gif-16673476

[viral girder]

Which 2 crafted should I get for elemental focus

[uneven scarab]

[pliant topaz]

yeah he covers litearlly everythign! theres a lot of things you could probably skip but yea

[worn ivy]

Why t f some people are mechagone

gnome

[viral girder]

Because they like mechagnome probably

[hazy breach]

It sims well

[worn ivy]

Undead female is chad

[viral girder]

I just like my nelf.

Right now im.. trying to figure out how to the white and blue night elf heritage armor

[viral girder]

Should I even worry about my 2 crafted at this stage of the season or just... save the gold?

[wind canopy]

I mean, you can eventually recraft it to whatever ilvl.

[round latch]

it was the storngest overall in sims before orcs,its my 2nd rogue,switched from human for the lols guess i wanted a change

normal gnomes are for queen ansurek iirc

escape from roots

[viral girder]

I just want nelf because hawt

I dont care about simming for racials. Thats just too much

Esp when if thats the case, orc and troll will always be best

when it comes to dps

[hollow spear]

Isn't troll garbage for sub?

[viral girder]

For us yes

But im talking general sense

Every DPS can in some form still function with the speed troll gives. Hence why lust is always good

But orc is just always broken

Popping an orc racial in an opener thats already doing upwards of 2m burst undergeared? Brother.

[swift tinsel]

Female nelf/orc also have the best armor models, no giant shoulders or hooves/toes

[round latch]

all racials are neglible in terms of dmg

like

[swift tinsel]

It’s all about transmog, the true endgame

[round latch]

unless u are racing world first it doesnt even matter

tmog is another story

i like humans more

above everything else

[swift tinsel]

They’re third for me

[viral girder]

I just want them to give me more skirt colors now

I love the yellow one but would have much prefered a white or midnight one first

[hollow spear]

I like the dwarf cleanse

[viral girder]

Didnt get a poisoned pact or mandate off of my LFR queen.

Even at LFR those things woulda been nice at my stage

[hollow spear]

That's the problem with lfr

[viral girder]

Esp when this is my 2nd trinket.

[hollow spear]

Everybody doing it needs stuff from there

[viral girder]

Its. So. Bad.

[viral girder]

Didnt even drop.

[hollow spear]

The classic

[swift tinsel]

There’s always vault 🤷🏻‍♂️

[viral girder]

I just gotta deal with the poopoo trinket from now

[swift tinsel]

Gotta get in the gamba spirit before 11.1

[viral girder]

I almost always live off of vault.

[hollow spear]

Can farm delves

[viral girder]

Vault gave me a heroic sikran dagger this week

Which was huge for me

[hollow spear]

The knife is pretty good

[viral girder]

Wasnt vault

But my timewalking heroic chest

[swift tinsel]

Vault is how I got my spymasters and transmitter lol

[round latch]

my mage did 2 heroic raids

1st got spymasters 2nd 4p

[swift tinsel]

I played mage for heroic prog and most farm and I think we saw two drop the entire tier

Zero transmitters lol

[round latch]

idk i rolled 97 on spymaster

that trinket is so stupid storng for the mage it carried me

[swift tinsel]

I had my spymasters by then, one of the last kills dropped both lol

I got mine by like week four or five

[viral girder]

My main guild im in im got aotc and im into mythics in, but my rogue is fresh and has only been to 1 raid that im just gonna be practicing in my brothers prog raid lmao

I honestly dont expect much on the rogue atm

[swift tinsel]

My mage has amazing vault luck most of the time, it’s insane

[viral girder]

I should prob get an AoE spec set up and start doing mythics

Im still trying to fully set up and practice single target since I made this rogue mainly to be a raider.

But im liking it more than I thought

[swift tinsel]

And I think I’m the only 80 rogue in my guild so whenever I raid on it I get all drops lol

[viral girder]

Its kinda how im gonna get my rogue funneled gear in my brothers guild.

Ima be basically the only leather user

Let alone rogue

So bascally any leather and daggers that drop, are mine.

90% gurenteed

[round latch]

its actually insane my rogue although reached 638 relatively fast never had drops,no skadryns,no wpns,lately got crystal and spyglass,thats all.My mage had everyhting,spymasters,4p,mists trinket 3rd week,wpn craft early,rings,u name it

it was raining loot

[swift tinsel]

We’re fully stocked on druids and a monk or two so we’re all hands on deck for leather drops lol

[round latch]

lol

[swift tinsel]

I think my rogue got 4pc in a heroic reclear, then dagger on first mythic bloodbeast kill

[viral girder]

I mean in raid on my holy paladin I just... I just forgo gear. I give everyone else gear because imo gear isnt "needed"

It is but it isnt.

[swift tinsel]

I might have had one catalyzed delve hero track piece idr

[viral girder]

Gear wont matter if you dont know how to press buttons correctly. And both my raid group and my brothers raid group and just in general... is shown all the time

[swift tinsel]

Oh dude I was killing meters at like 608-610 lol

[viral girder]

Like how am I coming into raids, on an undergeraed rogue i have 0 experience with... and out dpsing people with way more time and experience on their classes who are almost 20 item levels higher than me

[swift tinsel]

Even the 630 hekili ret paladin

[viral girder]

Is it because I actually took the time to practice on a dummy and research and set up macros and shit properly?

Is no one else doing that?

[swift tinsel]

Sub also owns farm

Like a lot

[hazy plank]

hi guys i'm maining sin but as i'm training ST for playing sub on NW last bosses, i was wondering if u want to spend all SoD or always keep one stack for the SB recover

[viral girder]

Unless you are an enhance shaman from what I can tell.. DPS... just isnt a rocket science or as hard as people make it out to be

[swift tinsel]

If you do your opener right no one will touch you

[viral girder]

Yeah no the opener is strong. Its one of those "first half of the opener is setting up, then out of no where you skyrocket to 2m+ burst DPS

[swift tinsel]

Line up your SoDs with sectech

[viral girder]

the opener makes me want to have 2 vanish charges

[round latch]

since u are maining sin on your upper left side of your discord panel directly under ''Ravenholdt'' there is ''Channels and Roles''===> Sin

or nvm u did that cool

[viral girder]

Vanish being where it is though... I dont think theres anything I can sacrifice just for a 2nd vanish for "opener" sakes

[swift tinsel]

Nope not worth

[round latch]

definitely not worth

[hazy plank]

i learned that ye by reading a guide but if u do that u will run out of SoD when u recover SB

and i think u want 2 SoD for SB

[swift tinsel]

You do, you just need to pay attention to the SB/Flag cd and stop using at a certain point

[viral girder]

Whats a good quick dungeon I can farm for some gold that may or may not be more entertaining to do then flying around to mine/herb

[swift tinsel]

So don’t send sectech when flag has ~20ish sec left on its cd and plan your SoD accordingly

[round latch]

no dungeon will give u more gold than mine/herbing

[swift tinsel]

And make sure you have at least 1 SoD charge ready at that 20 sec mark

And 1 dance charge with the other having 30-40sec left on its cd

Eleem has a good video about how to handle that

[viral girder]

Yeah lining up cds is something im still working on

[swift tinsel]

Sub benefits quite a lot from practicing your between-Flag cd management so it’s good to spend time on a dummy getting used to what you can send and when in order to make sure you can 2x SoD/Dance

[viral girder]

I cant seem to find the quest for the 649 ring upgrade

[swift tinsel]

Which will be different between trickster and deathstalker due to differences in CDR

[hazy plank]

ty so much

[swift tinsel]

Happy to help!

There’s a rhythm to it that you’ll get used to with practice, then it becomes really fluid

And quite fun

[viral girder]

of course it drops on the holy paladin but not the sub rogue

[swift tinsel]

PTR down, tinfoil hat time

Gonna check out the on-use damage trinkets after work tonight when its back

nvm was just a hiccup

[hollow spear]

They better be decent

Or we're even more fried than we thought we were

[hazy breach]

Just play something like Azerokk's resonating heart

1 rppm pray it procs during blades

[hollow spear]

Inb4 strength trinket

I always thought transmitter was annoying

[fallow nimbus]

As annoying as it's powerful

[hollow spear]

Boy was I wrong. Transmitter + ovinax egg is annoying 😅

[fallow nimbus]

• deathstalker

[hollow spear]

Oh pls no

[swift tinsel]

the gob squad one is kinda funny

[sick jackal]

i am getting 8.3 PTSD from this season

[swift tinsel]

Prized putter isn't too terrible

Ratfang toxin might be nice if it actually stacked the poison on anything

Nvm just dummy immune to stack, it hits quite hard on actual mobs

stacks insanely fast but does no damage until you use the on-use

[worn ivy]

ptr going down in 10

[worn ivy]

Yo

it still spawns

https://www.twitch.tv/lashga/clip/RoughBrainyRamenSoBayed-y5lEsuefIGMPSDXc

even tho ive the toy

[alpine wraith]

yea

[thick temple]

u think theyll inv subrogue

[random mason]

Gotta try

[thick temple]

they took a fury smh

[grand wyvern]

can somebody explain why shadow blades is delayed after sec tec in the opener? also i have seen some guide suggest you dalay with ds but not with trickster

[hazy breach]

You get full CP from premed anyway

So theres no reason to use it earlier

[grand wyvern]

but doesthe 20% extra damage line not apply to sec tec?

[hazy breach]

It does not

The physical part of sectech benefits from it, but thats not the majority of the damage of it

[grand wyvern]

so does this delay apply to every cooldown usage?

major cooldowns at least

[hazy breach]

yes

[grand wyvern]

ok thanks

[tribal blade]

oh i know woldo, he's a good dude

one of the rare instances of meeting a high IO pusher who's super friendly and positive haha

[vestal escarp]

pls robot make us play the goon squad

pls robot make us play the goon squad

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/goon-goon-sesh-mike-ermantraut-breaking-bad-gif-15296391530287311065

[quaint lodge]

do you guys macro treacherous and flagellation to each other

[tribal blade]

is that a trinky

oh is that the one where you summon the goon squad

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hazy breach]

Yep

BL = Goonsquad

[tribal blade]

hell yeah

[swift tinsel]

You can have multiple out at a time even without lust

Kinda under tuned atm but funny to watch lol

I’m kinda liking Kezan/Drink + Ratfang in st

[vestal escarp]

eh

with no steroid trink we just wait for them to fix sin tier and play sin

[swift tinsel]

No thanks

Sin puts me to sleep

[idle aurora]

so i found my dream weak aura and modified to how i wanna see it but can anyone tell me what the little numbers are in the picture

the little symbols and shadowdance

[tepid trellis]

one looks like Symbols buff

other might be First dance timer

[swift tinsel]

They’re the expected charges you’ll have by your next Flag if it’s LE’s pack

[tepid trellis]

[idle aurora]

it is!!!!

[swift tinsel]

It’s not exact because of how it calculates

[idle aurora]

should i be using it for anything or turning it off

[iron fjord]

Does feint work on swirlies and such?

[spark tusk]

This is correct

[swift tinsel]

They might have adjusted it since the last iteration I looked at a while ago

[spark tusk]

Symbols is correct, Dance is not because it doesn't account for CDR

[idle aurora]

LE are you the one who made this weakaura pack?

[tepid trellis]

most yes, but not all

[idle aurora]

Lisonna

[spark tusk]

Yes

[swift tinsel]

Their auras are top-notch, highly recommend

[idle aurora]

this is by far hands down the most glorious weak aura i have ever used for any class

it's so to the point and simple

[spark tusk]

Thx fam

[iron fjord]

web blades?

how do i know if it works x)

[idle aurora]

So Thank you for creating it ❤️

[swift tinsel]

All you homie 🙇‍♂️

[swift tinsel]

if it kills you, it doesn't work. if it almost kills you, it might

[idle aurora]

so is the little numbers how many more i can use before it comes up again or how many i should save for it to be up again?

im trying to figure out how to properly use it

I know at 19 seconds in shadow i am supposed to build

[iron fjord]

thank you blizzard entertainment

[idle aurora]

and hold

[iron fjord]

Try having the little numbers at 2

when flag comes up

so in that screenshot you would be able to use a symbols but not a shadow dance

[swift tinsel]

if you use the dance it would have less than 30 sec on its cooldown bc flag has 33 secs left on its

[tepid trellis]

stand in it and press feint

thats how you find out xD

[swift tinsel]

so you're safe to send all 3

bc in that time you'll gain a sod charge

[idle aurora]

ohhhhh

[iron fjord]

was goofing around with guildies if one could survive web blades

[swift tinsel]

dance says 2 bc you're sitting on 2 charges

[idle aurora]

omg this weak aura pack is even cooler

thats insane lol

[iron fjord]

I might've explained it wrong wait

[idle aurora]

no

as i used them

with flag down

it updated to tell me how many i would have by tthe time it came off cd

[iron fjord]

i dont use that pack myself

[idle aurora]

the tiny ones

[iron fjord]

that's kinda insane ngl

[idle aurora]

dude

its fire

it real time updates as you spend

[iron fjord]

but would be different in aoe situations no? especially with shuriken tornado

[idle aurora]

and as you spend combos it updates shadowdance

[swift tinsel]

as LE said, it doesn't account for CDR so its not 100% for dance

[iron fjord]

still nuts, well done @spark tusk

[idle aurora]

yeah but it's something 🙂

close is better than nothing

[swift tinsel]

but you get more cdr in aoe bc of how many more cp you get per gen cast outside of blades etc

[twilit phoenix]

how do you make logs show pulls?

[idle aurora]

i try to hold around 19 seconds anyways

[twilit phoenix]

not just kil.l,s

[swift tinsel]

oh yeah, its an incredible WA regardless

[spark tusk]

I thought about considering like

[swift tinsel]

logs should show encounters

[spark tusk]

"What's your avg cdr in the last like 20 seconds"

and use that but

[swift tinsel]

that sounds like a fair bit of work

[spark tusk]

that's extremely messy and dynamic and may not be worth it

[swift tinsel]

yeah

[idle aurora]

its REALLY good how it is

[spark tusk]

I pushed it out in a way to see "Is this even useful to people"

[swift tinsel]

bc it can be heavily affected by mechanics

[spark tusk]

Because I wasn't sure whe nI made it

[random mason]

Upload wipes, then click on the pull you want

[spark tusk]

And if it was really useful to see CDR accounted for then I'd put the time in

but first version was without, and seems fine thusfar without

[swift tinsel]

I think CDR is too dynamic like you said

[idle aurora]

i have been having the hardest time playing sub until i found your weak aura then everything clicked for me

[swift tinsel]

and I think its close enough to give useful information

[spark tusk]

It'd be quite annoying to try to account for it

[swift tinsel]

the level of updated precision might not be worth the work

yeah

[spark tusk]

Humans can do the brain work

that's part of playing the game

[swift tinsel]

Right, dance is kind of a ballpark thing anyways

[spark tusk]

I'm not making hekili

[swift tinsel]

lmao please don't

[spark tusk]

I promise I have no intentions to and have idiological convictions against doing so

[spark tusk]

really glad to hear that

[swift tinsel]

Good, I'd have to start judging lol

[idle aurora]

yeah but your giving info in a way where i know when i need to evisc for coup or backstab to reapply buff

or know to black powder before backstabbing

to reapply

[twilit phoenix]

i'm live logging, but the link isn't showing any wipes :/

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/d6rRHzwWBLv7XDyj

any setting I'm missing?

[idle aurora]

you have a patreon or twitch channel?

[random mason]

Did u actually turn on logging in game

[swift tinsel]

did you /combatlog

bc yeah I see no fights

[random mason]

I got an addon for that bc i kept forgetting to do it

[spark tusk]

I don't stream. My WAgo pages have a Kofi link for a tip jar but I'm not a content creator. This discord is my public place

[twilit phoenix]

i didn't do this

thank you

[random mason]

But i think r.io client also does it

[swift tinsel]

np np, happens all the time

[idle aurora]

ok ill find it this is worth it enough for a tip

ty guys!

[wind canopy]

Would you do it for me? I’ll send you cookies

[spark tusk]

Nope sry

Not even for cookies

[worthy relic]

heyy, finally got back to the game after a year.
saw my shd/ss macro is broken now, after a quick search here i know they bricked it.
still feel like ss takes to long to go out compared to before even when using separate keybinds, is this the new normal or am i missing something?

[swift tinsel]

Grim Scythe is affected by Lingering Darkness but only 23% increase

[idle aurora]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[idle aurora]

ugh sorry would someone be able to help me out. I had a macro that would shadowstrike and show shadow strike when it was up but then show backstab when shadowstrike wasnt up i cant find it anywhere tried all three guides and here

i accidentally typed over it

[pliant topaz]

^ read 4 message above (chuffa's message)

[pliant topaz]

sounds like a you issue or ping issue. there are stealth related bugs, but it goes out when it should

[worthy relic]

okey tyty

[idle aurora]

awww when did they brick that macro 😦

[shut sonnet]

Blame @pliant topaz

[pliant topaz]

hes right

its my fault

I camped Real'z lane he got mad and broke it

[shut sonnet]

[swift tinsel]

Garbagemancer's is the new bomb dispenser, zero cd free dam every 10 seconds

[idle aurora]

its ok i just figured out LE weakaura lets me know when to stop shadowstriking so i think im ok 😄

[swift tinsel]

just can't spam it or it doesn't actually drop the garbage bomb

just silly

also Garbocalypse should be the name of 11.1 patch

[brisk onyx]

cool

[spark tusk]

you're a monster

[spark tusk]

oh boy an extra keybind to find

[teal prawn]

Slice and dice

[spark tusk]

nah my snd is still bound

imma keep it till I die

[teal prawn]

I knew you had a spare keybind tho

[plush roost]

we killed court 5 seconds before my cds

smhmyhead

my barse

[swift tinsel]

I'm gonna bind it to BS/SS and see what happens lol

Goon Squad is giving ~2.4% overall so not the worst

[twilit phoenix]

hoping goon trink is bis

[pliant topaz]

I had to sorry

[swift tinsel]

Remnant is total ass, takes ~2:30 to stack and does 2.2mil total damage so the main stat stacking might be the only reason to use it

now if it stacked to max or close to it for 2nd cd set, that'd be nice

[serene terrace]

Is there a guide of when the optimal times to use shadowblade /flagellation are in mythic dungeons outside of the boss parts?

[swift tinsel]

That would be too pull-dependent to do

because there's way too many factors

[serene terrace]

I see I feel like my dps is super low outside of these 2 cds

[swift tinsel]

it is, unfortunately

that's sub

[wind canopy]

Yep

[swift tinsel]

Usually you can get a use on first pull, maybe a second before first boss

[wind canopy]

And if it's low in general, probably not using them enough

[swift tinsel]

then you'll get used to when you can use them and still have them for bosses

[serene terrace]

Thanks for the help also is there any reason to be using black powder if I am using Trickster?

[wind canopy]

5+ targets

[young path]

i recommend use on CD unless average of pull is <50% or you know a giga pull is next

[serene terrace]

Thanks for tips

[wide shale]

Question for Rogues on M Queen. Rarely, not often, ill get pulled forwarded. I cant explain why or what it is. its like a displacement. And i do not think its the circle 'booping' you forward. thats different.

Anyone notice this at all?

[wind canopy]

Is it while you're using Eviscerate?

[wide shale]

could be?!

ius there something that does that

[wind canopy]

It's probably Coup de Grace

[hazy breach]

Yep Coup de Grace has a charge built into it

Why? Who the fuck knows, but thats how it is

[wide shale]

ty sommuch

[swift tinsel]

Sometimes you just gotta fly through the air

really feel the wind in your hair

[swift tinsel]

So far Goon Squad is leading aoe testing, still have a few to go

as far as damage/on-use ones go

not counting meteor bc its absolutely going to get nerfed

or maybe it won't, the 10 second 'charge' time is a lot to play/plan around

[deft oar]

queen is dead, it's over

[pliant topaz]

mashallah

[tribal blade]

datamined sub rogue changes: new cheat death talent now gives your entire raid cheat death too

[pliant topaz]

hello 911 hes doing it again

send the ambulance before he ODs

[swift tinsel]

Praying for new build tomorrow

Probably won't see til next week at the earliest

[rocky ocean]

can't wait to play half the season with all the previous bugs alongside with the new ones

[tribal blade]

barely clinging on for life here

[pliant topaz]

join me here

[tribal blade]

dude i'm so hyped for arcane

next season

[pliant topaz]

have you seen the new cinematic?

[rocky ocean]

Absolute cinema

[tribal blade]

i actually have not, i need to do that

[haughty mural]

Oh yea I need to do that aswell

[pliant topaz]

watch it then come we discuss

its puren

pure

cinema

[sick jackal]

Mom come pick me up i am scared

[tribal blade]

dw i'm gaslighting 😉

[tribal blade]

oh shit is that a spider mommy

goddamn

[pliant topaz]

oh yeah

elise

[tribal blade]

lookin pretty good

[round latch]

seen the mundo businessman skin

😂

i want it

[pliant topaz]

mundo is a businessman doing important business stuff

[round latch]

its 11/10 pure psychology

i need that thing

[pliant topaz]

get it

mundo turbo stonks

big boi

doing big business

big dam

big carry

welp season ends in an hour 100 lp off of GM.

we hit next season i guess mahallah

[alpine wraith]

ramping

[haughty mural]

rooting for you next season 💪

[lilac stag]

you realize you’re also rooting for sub to be dead depending on timing of seasons.

[haughty mural]

loosing raccoon to last epoch and armin to league

whats next

loosing Fuu to marvel rivals ?

[lilac stag]

Fuu’s GF quitting so he just quits as well.

[haughty mural]

[lilac stag]

and it would probably be Pantheon

[haughty mural]

time to gather those spears

just in case

[alpine wraith]

dont worry we will always be here

[pliant topaz]

nah raccoons still playing unless outlaws the raid spec then hes done witht he game

im also probbaly playing next patch. idk about 11.2 and after that though

[sick jackal]

Ayo 11.2 is rework time where you going

[pliant topaz]

yeah thats called the carrot on the stick. you gotta break the cycle at some point

[alpine wraith]

yea they rework shadow again

[round latch]

bold to assume there will be a rework

[rocky ocean]

stealth removed

[alpine wraith]

or make assa better

[pliant topaz]

I can see most stealth interactions getting removed for what its worth

[round latch]

[rocky ocean]

warrior new ability: war stealth

[round latch]

more likely to happen on dh

warrior getting stealth of any type means im purging my disc from every wow folder ever existed

[pliant topaz]

Nah nothing like that

more that they probably dont want stealth to be a big rotational thing

[tribal blade]

it would make the game healthier for rogues to not be so reliant on stealth to do damage

[rocky ocean]

it's war stealth, big difference

[pliant topaz]

eh. debatable. A more interesting solution would be to create more interesting stealth interaction / activators

[sick jackal]

For sub we arent that reliant are we?

[round latch]

😅

[pliant topaz]

but if youre busy working on mage, you can just remove them and call it a day

[tribal blade]

on actual stealth we're not yeah

[round latch]

true and real,every patch note,ever written has mage stuff in it

its rly cringe

[tribal blade]

i'm still so sad we lost x2 vanish charges

[sick jackal]

I wish they made stealth more reliant to an actual stealth and made dance back to a just use stealth abilities

Maybe than subter and 2nd vanish doesnt feel awful

[tribal blade]

well the fun thing is we sit here thinking about things they could do, but blizz is busy working on other specs

[pliant topaz]

regardless, i just find it funny that they litearlly full ignored rguue on tww release. like disgusting levels of ignore, then we coped surely 11.1 then somehow for 11.1 notes (so far) compared to other specs we got even more ignored

oh well

[tribal blade]

yeah so far in TWW rogue has been mostly ignored

we got a bit of good attention in the anniversary patch

which people argue is rogues getting attention

but in the grand scheme of things it's very small

[pliant topaz]

did we?

[void hound]

big cringe indeed

no wonder rogue players play other games or quit wow

[pliant topaz]

i guess you can say we did

its okay, theres more emphasis on early game and snowballing this season (i think). Surely assassins are back! league time

[fallow nimbus]

If you think about it, cp and/or energy kinda went to all other classes to make new baselines and now we get ignored

[pliant topaz]

we go do rogue stuff over there

[tribal blade]

they did do some good cooking there, but it's like 1/15th of the dev time compared to other specs

[pliant topaz]

i guess u can summarize it as : byebye dust. hi a talent replacing it. Make ER passive

[tribal blade]

pretty much that yeah haha

[sick jackal]

I mean ER being passive just killed the ability

[void hound]

dw, midnight expansion is gonna fix everything

[sick jackal]

They could have just removed it

[sick jackal]

Copium

[pliant topaz]

midnight 12.2 i our time surely! i wont be there but surely you guys are gonna have fun

[void hound]

😭

[sick jackal]

Wow 2

[tribal blade]

i think it was a great change overall

supercharger is incredible

[void hound]

i think the changes have been mostly positive
deathstalker being bis in ST is my biggest annoyance currently

[tribal blade]

more stuff like that and sub is on the way to being a really fun spec

[alpine wraith]

deathstalker has been the most boring hero class that just got buffed 11 times

[sick jackal]

I like supercharger but they way they handled er was bad

[alpine wraith]

and it is annoying to play

[tribal blade]

yeah DS sucks as a hero tree

[alpine wraith]

they also didnt want to bother with mfd or NS

so they killed it

[tribal blade]

which makes me sad because the entire theme was pretty cool

[alpine wraith]

then made subterfuge useless for sub

and vanish too

[void hound]

gonna be honest, i never liked mfd

[alpine wraith]

oh and also put sepsis but didnt put any of the good things

then also deleted it

it was also buffed for most of its existence

[bronze turret]

Rogue is on the backburner

[tribal blade]

poor hacha losing sepsis

[alpine wraith]

and talents like wm lingering etc

just there

ah and cant forget our "side" talents

[pliant topaz]

long time no see! happy belated new year, hope youve been well

[alpine wraith]

push has been detoxing

[bronze turret]

Same same, ofc! You too 🙏🏻

[tribal blade]

the OG is back

[bronze turret]

But nah it’s weird that none of the issues rogue has had for years haven’t been fixed

They create one-off interesting talents but the core issues remain the same

[tribal blade]

change the class color to blue and it'll happen

[bronze turret]

The talent tree for sub could probably just be 8 talents or some shit and it would be the same

Basically the old talent system, too many fake garbage talents in both trees

[tribal blade]

i unironically think half the talent tree needs a revamp

[pliant topaz]

I mean I just played tonight, and seeing so many bugs was so frustraiting that I almost fully decided to quit. its disgusting to be so many really really annoying bugs in the spec that impact your experience and gameplay and non get fixed

[alpine wraith]

there is no revamp

we are in a good spot in their eyes

and look everyone will play DS next tier

[pliant topaz]

my friends convinced me to stay for one more patch but idk man, playing other games and seeing how clean and smoot the experience is, how bug free and fun they are, its not really worth it

[alpine wraith]

in their data IT IS SO GOOD

EVERYONE PLAYS IT

WHOHOOOO DS DS DS DS

[keen dome]

The complete and deafening silence on bug fixes really is the worst part of it all. Even acknowledgement of them planning to fix stuff would be nice.

[tribal blade]

i was playing no RS on queen prog tonight and was still getting delayed CP refunds

[alpine wraith]

nah then people would have hope

[sick jackal]

This means they have no intencions to fix it

Might just go play a private server at this point

[keen dome]

That's not true at all. But it is frustrating we don't have any communication about them.

It is neither a confirmation or not about them fixing it. It's us just sitting waiting.

[sick jackal]

Usually when blizz does something they talk about it if they intend to do some fixes

[pliant topaz]

i switched to no RS, yeah still delayed, coup also delays things and refunds, the dash is frustrating with web blades, the coup hits missing is frustrating, vanishing and not being able to strike is frustrating. sitting at 12 stacks of sht and not getting refunds while sod is active and having to activate sod while its already active to get refunds is frustrating.

i hadnt played in 2-3 weeks and kinda forgot about these, which is why it just hit me so hard, that oh yeah all of this garbage has been here for months and nothing

[weak flame]

What is rs?

[pliant topaz]

replicating shadows

[sick jackal]

Like why is shadowed finishers and rs a thing

They just bug everything so remove them and put their damage into buttons

They dont change the way we play anyways

[weak flame]

What is the bug with rs

[lilac stag]

Welcome to why this spec is basically dead. You get suckered in with some fun bits, to each progressive week learning something about the spec bugs that eventually become so mentally overwhelming you find solace in league.

[keen dome]

The pueple glow cannot cover up all the problems forever 😔

[lilac stag]

Rng delay on combo point refunds

I just want this tier to be over.

[sick jackal]

"Find solace in league"

💀

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/agree-its-a-scientifical-fact-angry-facts-mic-gif-15829628

[pliant topaz]

he not wrong

this shit fun

[keen dome]

League is scary.

[pliant topaz]

look at this lb game

one sec

[tribal blade]

the vanish strike is really frustrating because i miss a gcd or 2 sometimes when it happens

as i'm spamming strike

[pliant topaz]

yaeh

[tribal blade]

i actually have 2 binds, 1 for both stab and strike and another solely strike

[pliant topaz]

oh my god

cinma

[tribal blade]

i'll sometimes just hit my stab/strike button after vanish so i don't lose a gcd

[keen dome]

Smart.

[alpine wraith]

im having lots of fun in poe2

also dont forget we got a ducken RNG ring

[pliant topaz]

yeahi heard poe2 is super fun too

[keen dome]

I had a Sub rogue join my raid last night and, going through my logs, they didn't use Shadow Dance once. Nothing but backstabs..

[alpine wraith]

and also ducken RNG tier coming

[tribal blade]

there's no way

[pliant topaz]

based hes the real one

[keen dome]

It's fantastic! Rough edges and pretty awkward and busted end-game but it's just better than 1 in so many ways

Guess the fight

[pliant topaz]

might try it if 11.1 is as awful as now

[tribal blade]

the hunter in my raid refuses to keep playing poe 2 because of maps resetting on 1 death or something

i don't know poe at all so hopefully i got that right

[keen dome]

Yeah, they do. It's a dumb change.

It used to be 6 deaths, but now it's 1 death = map dead and gone, including node. There's a load of changes that I think are needlessly punishing at end-game. but it's early access and they've been really responsive about making changes.

[alpine wraith]

i mean just dont die kekw

but yea it is super annoying

when i die i dont even get mad anymore

[tribal blade]

why is he using wound poison

too

[keen dome]

Geez

[tribal blade]

actually that's a very minor problem compared to just pressing backstab lol

[keen dome]

I wish I'd noticed during the raid do I could've prodded him. But I wasn't looking at damage 'cos it doesn't matter on heroic

[tribal blade]

he might straight up not know he has dance

[keen dome]

Another boss. This time backstab isn't on top.

[tribal blade]

damn he'd probably be doing more dam as DS

[keen dome]

Not on that fight, imo.

[tribal blade]

i assume no dance sub DS is better lol

[keen dome]

That was Court

[tribal blade]

ah true

[keen dome]

Which is why Flurry is 3.

He did 600k, though.

[tribal blade]

he presses dance and he what, probably doubles his damage

[keen dome]

Yeah

He's clearly doing something close to the rotation. but it must be very confusing..

[tribal blade]

he's probably just new to sub and forgot to add dance to his bars

and has no idea he should be using dance

[keen dome]

Yeah

Maybe he had details installed and will see my damage being 3x his and will look and go "oh, dance"

[tribal blade]

i got CE with a hunter who did the entire first half of mythic prog during EN in legion not knowing he had an on use on his artifact weapon

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[tribal blade]

you can't make this shit up

[keen dome]

People still can't do Sikarn Heroic. You explain "Stand on SKULL marker for the first charges, everyone else be on the oppisite side of the boss"

And then sixteen ghosts appear or people stand on random markers (or none)

it's incredible.

Easiest boss in the raid and people just won't do the one singular mechanic

[tribal blade]

mythic sikran just as bad tbh

no matter how many times we reclear it

people will stack on each other

[keen dome]

He has explodey circles around the charged people, right? So you stagger them out?

[tribal blade]

even when i'll get to a spot way before everyone else, someone will jump on top of me

[tribal blade]

yeah you can't overlap the circles or else the raid takes big dam

[keen dome]

Coo, I thought so.

[tribal blade]

it's not that bad

[keen dome]

Whereas on heroic who cares 'stack em up.

[tribal blade]

just requires people to use their brains

[keen dome]

Yeah. I like Sikarn a lot but I've yet to run a heroic pug where people do the fight properly. Even with a detailed, clear instruction.

[tribal blade]

haha that's just pug life

[keen dome]

At least the ghosts make it really obvious who didn't pay attetnion.

There's also always someone who won't stack in Rasha'nan web pull.

[sick jackal]

Wait why is backstab that high

[keen dome]

Poor guy didn't know Shadow Dance existed.

[sick jackal]

Oh

I though we had like a classic rotation going there

Scared me

[keen dome]

He was using Symbols, though.

Just not dance.

[sick jackal]

Insane macabre value

[keen dome]

I love heroic pugs. They are the funniest place to be.

[vale pine]

pugs are tpically the blame cycle

the dps/tanks blame the healers
and the healers blame everyone

[keen dome]

Haha, yeah

I've had a tank join, not realize he's tanking, mess up immediately and go "Tanks???" and then leave the group.

Really funny sequence of events.

[void hound]

reject modernity, embrace tradition

[silent ruin]

Does shadow blades account for all damage from sec tech?

[void hound]

it doesnt work with sec tec

IIRC

[vale pine]

the shadow parts of secret technique don't work on it

so most of it damage does not

[silent ruin]

ok, so its not much of a dps loss to press shadow blades after first sec tech then right ?

[keen dome]

Ye, that's why it's pushed after SecTec, as I understand it.

[silent ruin]

ok thanks

[keen dome]

Someday it will be fixed.. A glorious tomorrow. Maybe.

[rocky ocean]

a glorious soon™

[lilac stag]

Hot take, they have a macro for both but forgot to put it on their action bars.

[keen dome]

A very likely thing.

It would explain a lot.

[plush roost]

I played DS sub for a majority of raid today

[round latch]

@alpine wraith the flicker strike kungfu is strong in poe2 aight?

[plush roost]

Man fuck this spec

How many dances can i sneak in on DS between CDs, 2?

I feel so weird just having sec tec off cd for so long before my cooldowns

[round latch]

probably ye

[plush roost]

I played it on Rashanan it totally krangled the cdr

Could have been a fat pink parser

Instead i only have 1 dance in my last cd set

I cri evry tim

[alpine wraith]

yea flicker is very strong if built right

[rocky ocean]

The killing spree that outlaw will never get

[alpine wraith]

no on DS you can only use 2 dances on first 1:30

after that you dance once every CB

[plush roost]

Man that feels so awful. And you just send one naked symbols with sec tec as well?

Or will cdr even allow that? I haven't played enough to know it off hand

[alpine wraith]

you can send symbols but not with sec tech

it is something like this

[plush roost]

Hmm i should take it to the training dummies

[shy ermine]

Does anyone know if the delayed sectec hits are buffed by the flag stacks gained by spending combo points, or if they deal damage based on the flag stacks at the time

[alpine wraith]

only first hit is not empowered by the gained ones

the 1 and 1.3 are

basically anything that buffs you 0.4 or so before the 1 sec hit

buffs that one and the 1.3

[shy ermine]

Thank you, makes sense for it to work this way

[void hound]

only every other CD set

[barren wolf]

!wowhead

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[barren wolf]

L

[keen dome]

Best quest in 11.0.7.

[barren wolf]

where can i read a guide on proper shadow dance and symbols usage

symbols i always end up with too many charges left

im just bad...

[hollow spear]

Have you seen this?

If you take the graphic and try to follow on the dummy, you should get the hang of it quite quickly

[keen dome]

I can't think of a way to articulate it properly but I think it's two pairs per flag+blades, one pair per SecTec, and then sitting on them so you'll have two per next burst window. So you might have to send a naked SecTec I think at some point, and you'll want to have Dance at 1 charge + 40s or less remaning on the next for the burst window.

[barren wolf]

i dont like remembering shit like that, i want to know the logic

but yea thats good

i wanna be able to make decisions based on varying scenarios

[hollow spear]

The logic is that you don't generate enough CDR to pair each dance with a symbol

[alpine wraith]

think most guides will cover that but i also have the logic in there

[barren wolf]

so i have more symbols than dances?

[alpine wraith]

it is mostly to do with sec tech

[hollow spear]

So you have to eventually send a symbol + sectec without a dance