subtlety

[keen dome]

Yeee.. That's going to be pretty awkward

[viral girder]

That was the recommended raid single target build on wowhead was deathstalker

That @vale pine did

So.

[uneven scarab]

well

If you read into it more

He kinda says dont play it

Trickster is like 2% behind but its wayyy better to play

not that you CANT play it

but its a pain to

Compared to trickster

[keen dome]

Deathstalker is reeeally janky to play, and I think with your macroing it's going to feel even worse. Like, won't you run into DN issues and wasting stuff?

[viral girder]

The wowhead

[uneven scarab]

Yes

[viral girder]

literally says "PLAY THIS"

[hollow spear]

Your reasoning for why you want the castsequence does not align with playing DS

DS distracts me and I don't even have mild adhd

[uneven scarab]

Its most likely outdated or not updated

[viral girder]

its updated for 11.0.7

The current patch

[uneven scarab]

Hmm well

I promise you most people play trickster

even with the dps loss

[keen dome]

It's been a while since I played DS but without the CDR from Trickster, would stuff even align properly for a macro at 1:30 to properly execute it all?

Namely SecTec, I mean

[swift tinsel]

you'd probably just hold everything at that point then send the macro

[keen dome]

Yeah, I guess.

[uneven scarab]

depends on how he uses sd and dance inbetween flag+blades

[viral girder]

between the rupture plague damages, the 30% more shadow damage for gloomblade and shit after shadow blades ends, etc. the crits for the gurneteed eviscerate crits, etc. Its things I dont have to really worry about. I attack boss. I just naturally do more damage from the single target things

[swift tinsel]

which felt gross to type ngl

[celest mulch]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gritty knot]

guys is m+ bricked when I got 2 invites at all in the last 2 1/2 weeks for keys? i even que up as assa and then do the switcherino afterwards (if i ever get invited). Its always fkn aug/enhancer or ele/dk or balance....this is just fucked up at this point. and when i play my own key ppl fk it up in 10 seconds too

[swift tinsel]

lfg is a wasteland

[uneven scarab]

Game is dying and m+ is even more dead

its that time of the xpac

[swift tinsel]

depending on the time of day and key level there's maybe 0-3 keys

[uneven scarab]

Unless you have a group you play with gl

Seriously

[gritty knot]

i am lf some 15s and 16s. ye its impossible without a team

[swift tinsel]

if I didn't run with guildies I wouldn't run at all

[uneven scarab]

^^

[swift tinsel]

only time I queue is as MW for fun

[uneven scarab]

Same

[swift tinsel]

and I use the term fun loosely

[keen dome]

Yeah, I imagine getting into keys that high in LFG atm is just gonna be horrible 😦

[swift tinsel]

tried healing a prot pal with 50% sotr uptime

[gritty knot]

its not even horrible, its actually impossible. and even tho i timed 16s i dont even get invited for 14s sometimes because even for lower keys ppl always want meta comp

[keen dome]

Rough, that sucks 😦

[gritty knot]

tbh this is 100% blizzs fault, as always. because they dont give any shits

[viral girder]

If not for my brothers and guild, Id just keep my sub canceled and play rivals all day

[swift tinsel]

yeah it really feels abandoned and whatever they do now to mitigate isn't helping

[keen dome]

My hot take is I think M+ is pretty unfun and bad right now but this would spiral into my whole loot issue speech and I've done that enough.

[vale pine]

sry whats the discussion?

[lilac stag]

They’re not worth it

[viral girder]

They were questioning why I was using deathstalker sub

When it was the build you have on your guide

[lilac stag]

Why does wowhead says play DS.

[viral girder]

[swift tinsel]

I think its a pretty reasonable take, dungeons don't feel great, peril drove off too many people who don't care to come back

got a bimodal distribution of changes and too many people left in the middle

[keen dome]

Ye

[viral girder]

Imho the dungeon difficulty spike in mythic is not fair. I dont wanna risk all that time, annoyance, possible deaths and wasted golds on repairs... to not even get enough crests to upgrade a piece of gear. Or to not get gear at all.

[lilac stag]

DS is an easier to understand version of the spec and in a bubble of ST with certain fight times it sims / performs better.

[vale pine]

because it is technically stronger on pure single target

[lilac stag]

also fuck DS

[swift tinsel]

based AF

[lilac stag]

I know why, they don’t.

[vale pine]

ah perfect if the confusion was cleared

👍

[viral girder]

I can tell why its better st just by reading its passives with the extra damage after shadow blades for 30%, the extra rupture duration, the plague damage, etc.

Its a ot of passive single target buffs to my normal kit that I dont really have to pay attention to it just "happens"

[hazy breach]

It randomly makes your auto attack do like 12% of your damage

Very fun

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/facts-factos-gif-24924684

[vale pine]

I would just play Trickster everywhere, its more fun

[swift tinsel]

I wonder if blizz has a bot in here that logs whenever people say that and when it hits a certain number it buffs BP

[keen dome]

I think trickster is the best and I would never play DS unless they buffed BP by 10,000%

hint hint, blizzard

[swift tinsel]

You actual menace

I want Dave to be a real spec

[hollow spear]

4th rogue spec?

Confirmed?

[swift tinsel]

Support

[keen dome]

Season 2 comedy rotation where we just push shadowstrike -> bp

[hollow spear]

Season 2 = dark brew season

[sullen hare]

Season 2: shuriken tornado st

[vale pine]

possible, we will see

[sullen hare]

The year of the STST

[keen dome]

Haha

[uneven scarab]

S2= goremaw season

Riding the hacha wave

[swift tinsel]

Sepsis comes from behind with the metal chair

[uneven scarab]

[hollow spear]

[swift tinsel]

Shadow Dance back into class tree

[sullen hare]

By God that opener macro had a family!

[swift tinsel]

Every spec gets Crackshot

but it does more for Sub and Sin

just to piss off the pirates

[hollow spear]

Don't summon zac

[swift tinsel]

"Acro was overrated"

waits

[keen dome]

What if!

Goremaw in the class tree.

[swift tinsel]

made that during the QQ storm

[keen dome]

Acro.......

[swift tinsel]

I still have Dreadblades on my action bars for outlaw lol

[keen dome]

When will they bring back cannon barrage.

[swift tinsel]

Omg

[hollow spear]

Meanwhile retri with the 30y melee gameplay

[swift tinsel]

gimme Miss Fortune ult

[lilac stag]

Mortal Strike -> Execute

[keen dome]

[vale pine]

i would like the extra range to come back

[sullen hare]

Blizzard trying to find out why there's 900,000 ret parses and the next highest is like 100k

[swift tinsel]

I definitely wouldn't be mad if we got a few extra yards

[viral girder]

So...from what im telling is the opener, is literally just... the same macro if I do this cast sequence macro thing... just one has trinkets/probably 30 second combat flasks wile the other doesnt...?

[hollow spear]

Never tried that spec. I'm afraid I might like it 💀

[viral girder]

and one doenst have vanish while the other does

[lilac stag]

Bold of you to assume they’re look at anything on rogue

[swift tinsel]

I'm still waiting for them to admit they forget rogue exists most of the time

[lilac stag]

here more nerfs in PvP. Rogue fixed.

[keen dome]

We got a quest this expansion. A quest

[viral girder]

Arent assassin and sub literally the 2 best raid dpses atm

[swift tinsel]

Been playing mistweaver bc its fun to play a spec that gets regular positive attention

[sullen hare]

Mistweaver is a pretty good time. That's my healer alt

[swift tinsel]

while also having glaring bugs as well

[lilac stag]

ST yes. Best? No

rogue is usually at the or near the top on boss dmg

[hollow spear]

Have you met shamans?

[sullen hare]

The plural of anecdote is not data and having specs with literally 3000 parses on the board is not a great dataset

[vale pine]

it is for me mostly to counter bad tanking or annoying mechanics

[sullen hare]

Always has been

[swift tinsel]

100%, having the breathing room when tanks grief with movement is very nice

[hollow spear]

I'm convinced the parses are all from the nerds on this discord and that's the reason I barely manage to get orange parses

[swift tinsel]

erratic boss movement by tanks is my 13th reason

I get so tilted when things move for no reason lol

[viral girder]

I did notice in the rotation for flag that @hazy breach Has up , i cant do a secret techniques in that combo because theres no combo gen after the initial eviscerate after flag

Wait...

nvm am I just stupid

[keen dome]

Also like. Ovinax. Let me stand further away from the hitbox slug

[viral girder]

I am

Forgot to shadow strike

Nvm this time its user error

skipped over the shadow strike for what ever reason

[hollow spear]

Can't wait for priory m+ without acro

[hazy breach]

What

[keen dome]

The second boss room, let's goooo. Paladin's revenge.

[swift tinsel]

Feinting on CD is gonna be fun

[keen dome]

Actually pretty hyped for that dungeon 'cos it's so short, and so dense.

I think it's going to be fun.

[tepid trellis]

DS angle just Storm + BP that pack

[hollow spear]

More fainting than feinting, amirite!?

[viral girder]

Skimmed passed the combo.

[swift tinsel]

tank strat gonna kite in a circle around the room constantly

[viral girder]

I read this and my brain didnt process the shadowstrike

So I was confused why I had no combo for ST

Its user error. Dont worry about it

[swift tinsel]

Lol coup in paladin room is gonna be a liability for sure

[keen dome]

It's gonna rule.

[swift tinsel]

Gonna make an MLG montage of it

[keen dome]

I need to collect a stupid death from every dungeon and raid boss with coup.

[swift tinsel]

Omg that would be so funny

[tepid trellis]

if i had mic on stream for prog, i would have had a funny one

[swift tinsel]

"Here's the best way to anhero in every dungeon, like comment subscribe"

[tepid trellis]

died to coup on queen

started ranting

made myself more angry with the rant

then i threw my mouse across the room

[swift tinsel]

the classic snowball of rage lmao

[hollow spear]

Did the mouse survive?

Prog cancelled thanks to coup

[tepid trellis]

nah it died

had a another one tho

[vale pine]

[keen dome]

rip mouse

[viral girder]

See once I get everything set up. Its gonna be a now "when the fuck do I use which defensive"

[keen dome]

..I guess it proc'd coup de grace itself. And charged into a wall.

[hollow spear]

Maybe you can make a castsequence for your defensives too 😛

[viral girder]

Like they have... weird fucking defenses

[tepid trellis]

[viral girder]

Does dodge work on Aoes

[swift tinsel]

Feint aoe

[tepid trellis]

yes and no

[swift tinsel]

Dodge melee and some weird mechs

[tepid trellis]

some yes

some no

hf

learning that

trial by error BABYYYYYY

[swift tinsel]

run elusiveness and hit everything lol

[hollow spear]

Feint is all about using it and checking your logs afterwards

[swift tinsel]

Swifty macro but make it defensive

[viral girder]

Feints an obvious one.
If a giant aoe is under my feet about to hit me, press it.

But the evasion is more so the one i'd prob have trouble knowing when to hit

[tepid trellis]

yeh until it doesent work on it xD

[viral girder]

What you mean

[hollow spear]

Or shadowstep out of it

[viral girder]

Come on wow

[viral girder]

That too.

I gotta get better at shadow steps

[uneven scarab]

Get ready for your rogue defensives to only work on half of what you expect them too

[viral girder]

I might just... ally cast or mouse over that to shadow step to healers or some shit

Basically the only time I use it is if I get hit with a knock back

[tepid trellis]

the next 3 months of his rogue life is gonna be a journey for sure

[viral girder]

Shadowstrike does its job when im not in combat

[viral girder]

Im trying to learn it all before I prog AOTC with it in season 2

Give me a sec to find my reaction for this

[tepid trellis]

new season new things to learn

[tepid trellis]

hmm this magic dmg spell

[viral girder]

Found it. My boi

[tepid trellis]

can i cloak this?

[viral girder]

This is my reaction to this

[tepid trellis]

lemme try

[uneven scarab]

Classic oh yeah lemme evasion this oh too bad its actually an attack AND A SPELL

[tepid trellis]

nope it did not

[uneven scarab]

So i STILL GET HIT

[viral girder]

Just give me a normal DR ability like eveyr other class that works against everything you bastards

[swift tinsel]

I love the game of "Can I shadowstep this beam or will I die"

[tepid trellis]

does the 1 sec full immunity from cloak then work on it?

[viral girder]

I have 2 defensives and it sounds like the most unreliable shit

[tepid trellis]

nope

[viral girder]

Like come on

I thought boomkins had it worse

[swift tinsel]

They're just louder

[tepid trellis]

well you spec into it

[swift tinsel]

and more consistently annoying

[tepid trellis]

then its a flat DR

[viral girder]

Atleast boomkins get bonus armor while being in boomkin

[tepid trellis]

Evasion feint + cloak can all be % dmg reduction

[swift tinsel]

Yeah but how much killing damage is phys vs magical

[viral girder]

Oh this gonna be a blast

[swift tinsel]

so the extra armor is meh

[worn cape]

The amount of times in keys I had to explain why I died.
"Tried to cloak it, didn't work. oops"

[viral girder]

I assume Im grabbing avoidance on my bracers/cloak

[tepid trellis]

like i said its literally just trial by error, i do this at the start of each tier

stand in shit

[swift tinsel]

Avoidance is nice fs

[tepid trellis]

and just press a defensive to see if it works

[swift tinsel]

I hop in to lfr for some of that

[tepid trellis]

i just terrorize our HC runs

[uneven scarab]

My favorite is NW first boss, without elusiveness the only way you live is the 1s immunity on cloak

[tepid trellis]

[swift tinsel]

follower dungeons too for the base mechs

[uneven scarab]

Otherwise instant dead

[young steeple]

i just got a myth sikran arsenal drop but my other trinkets are passive and like ilvl 600, when should i use these ?

im assuming outside of shadow

[tepid trellis]

evasion?

[worn cape]

Why don't you make a spreadsheet for us noobs? 😭

[viral girder]

bro this timewalking event coming up soon is gonna be so nice to get gear for my rogue.

[swift tinsel]

yeah I thought wretch was an evasion angle

[viral girder]

Every weeks a new time walking for a new heroic piece.

[tepid trellis]

you can evasion it + 1 sec cloak immunity it

[uneven scarab]

I swear evasion didnt work on it

damn

Im just washed

[wind canopy]

RH tried to set one up in the past, it takes way too long to upkeep every season.

[uneven scarab]

its been too long

[tepid trellis]

dont take my word for it tho

i jsut remember SL

i havent done m+ this season

[tepid trellis]

too much work

[uneven scarab]

Yeah in sl it worked but i dont think it did this season

i swear

[worn cape]

I guess I should make one for myself next season then 😛

[young steeple]

when should i use sikran arsenal on use?

before opener?

or after blades

[uneven scarab]

After

you want a cd trinket for opener

[hollow spear]

I remember having to explain to my RL why I didn't have cloak after using it before my killing spree during some beam mechanic 😅

[young steeple]

okeoke

[swift tinsel]

"It's a security blanket don't hate me"

[tepid trellis]

just take the L outlaw scrub

[uneven scarab]

Killing spree

kill me please spree more like

[keen dome]

It does what it says on the skill name, though.

It just doesn't kill the enemy.

[hollow spear]

It doesn't discriminate

[uneven scarab]

Hahah

[hollow spear]

My hands are too old for outlaw now

[tepid trellis]

if i could play it with a broken wrist then so can you old man

[hollow spear]

Now I need the safety blanket for coup huehue

Outlaw is like sub during cooldowns, it just never stops

[tepid trellis]

85apm aint that bad to keep up

pretty sure if tracked my apm when i play sub its a good bit over 100

i spam my buttons alot

[hollow spear]

True

But it feels different

[viral girder]

Wait... why do I no longer have access to the channel that eleem had up for combos

[hollow spear]

He probably found out that you played DS 🫣

[uneven scarab]

[hollow spear]

Jk, I don't have access either. Maybe he's making adjustments.

[tepid trellis]

i dont have access either

so something changed

[hazy breach]

Ye i removed it

[tepid trellis]

ah

[hazy breach]

Because its outdated

But people keep referencing it

[tepid trellis]

aite aite

[hollow spear]

I kinda liked it

[tepid trellis]

should prolly have fuu remove the link to it then

in his pin

[hazy breach]

Oh ye probably

[tepid trellis]

@vale pine

^

[vale pine]

sry

what needs update?

[tepid trellis]

the pin

with the link to the channel eleem used

[rough rivet]

this one

[tepid trellis]

remove it

[vale pine]

what part of it is wrong

[tepid trellis]

the channel is removed

to the link to it

[vale pine]

oh, the link to the tc

ahh

moment

[tepid trellis]

should get yeeted

[vale pine]

updated

thanks

okay, removed some pins too

should all be fine now

[lilac stag]

@vale pine can you remove !symbols

[vale pine]

i can ye

[lilac stag]

Pretty sure it’s outdated

[vale pine]

gone

[viral girder]

Whats the 2 poisons im using? Instant and Atrophic?

[twilit phoenix]

In raid yeah

In keys you’d use mind numbing

[tulip gorge]

is mind numbing that good tho

3% dr is pretty solid

[hollow spear]

for high keys, probably atrophic

for low keys, I'd for sure take mind numbing

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow spear]

How many targets are implied for when flawless form is not up? 2 or more?

[ember mural]

!logs

[steel zinc]

Yes

[steel zinc]

Yes always in raid. The 3% dr is insane for prog. Depending on boss fight like Ky'veza it was 350ish k hps

That's roughly a 1/4 healer

Rogue has one of the strongest raid buffs for high end raiding and one of the worst for farm.

[viral girder]

Thats fucking insane

For just a simple poison

[uneven scarab]

Atrophic is either insane or useless

no inbetween

[tribal blade]

nah just take atrophic always, numbing becomes a bit useless on bosses

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't use the word insane, like pally also brings 3% dr

but it's very good, shame nobody really cares about it as much as a dmg buff

[vague oar]

hey i have a question. i got assigned to use my vanish on first root on queen. since i can't vanish rupture on pull, do i bother applying rupture, or do i just eviscerate and go strait into dance window?

[viral girder]

For a rogue that has no healing what so ever.... thats pretty damn insane as extra utility for a group

Bringing that for literally noting

[tribal blade]

i don't understand what you mean literally nothing

other classes bring damage buffs for literally nothing too

[viral girder]

I mean. It is literally nothing.
Its an a free to cast hour long buff

tht procs for existing

[swift tinsel]

You still want to rupture, just skip the first evisc

[tribal blade]

doesn't almost every thing that exists like atrophic

[swift tinsel]

flag - rupture - cd's

[vague oar]

gotcha, so rupturing is higher prio than evis there

ty

[viral girder]

And is that 350k in raid or a dungeon scenario.. because thats also vastley difference

[swift tinsel]

you want to have it up for your cooldown window so you don't refresh it during

or apply during

[tribal blade]

put it this way, rogues will never ever get taken to keys because of atrophic

[swift tinsel]

its still good damage

[vague oar]

appreciate it

[swift tinsel]

You'll lose a bit of SnD uptime but with the guaranteed Unseen procs from using sectech (assuming you're playing trickster) you aren't missing out on that much

[tawdry meadow]

Hi all, just curious. Why is rupture high prio in the rotation? Is it purely just the dmg or is there a second order effect of having it up?

Sorry for the newb question. Trying leveling Sub as an alt and I’m 625 IL but I’m parsing low blues 😢

[hazy breach]

It just does damage

[tawdry meadow]

Thanks Eileen - what would you say is the biggest factor is getting parses up for Sub? Like, what do you think people do wrong consistently?

[hazy breach]

Prob not doing your flag windows correctly

[tawdry meadow]

I usually pop flag-evis-symbols-dance-SecretTech-blades

[fallow nimbus]

Bad flag windows are often a result of bad dance/sod/sectec management between cds and/or unlucky mechanics

Last few weeks i always got the damn sikran charge in the opener

[tawdry meadow]

yeah thats the worst

[woeful barn]

My biggest noticeable improvement was double sectech inside transmitter window.

Some fights like sikran im pressing the second sectech and the boss is dashing for first set of spirits. The timing is so close.

[tawdry meadow]

Ah do you pop transmitter right before your first sec tech? That I think gets you enough time to pop sectech again before transmitter runs off?

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade got to first intermission night one with 19 people.

[tribal blade]

nice!

progging court gonna be pretty fast after the nerfs

they made orbs a complete non issue, which is nice

[lilac stag]

web bitch is interesting.

I’ll try sub next night to see how the timings feel there.

[tribal blade]

cdr might be iffy, but probably will work

[lilac stag]

I think it’ll be ok. Just have to look a little closer when to pop stuff

Thankfully the boomie I’m paired up with is good about communicating so we’re sorting out web baits on him.

[tribal blade]

huge, good to have a partner with brains

[woeful barn]

Yeah it’s just with DS it feels like a tighter window vs trickster but I’m not playing it perfect ofc so idk

[swift tinsel]

DS has a much harder time fitting second sectech into transmitter

[vale pine]

timings on DS are quite tight, it is more punishing for mistakes

Trickster is just design wise better

[brisk onyx]

Agree

[lilac stag]

Design wise I’m not sure. It has a pretty steep entry for understand how it all works together.

Cdr is def better on tricky

neither is great design. Just those already comfy with sub be having fun with trickster. Fml if I had to learn all of it fresh.

[jaunty heath]

That’s what I did with the start of tww

And it was uhm

An experience

Especially because it was much less comparable to now

Triple secret tech opener trickster

I kinda miss that tho

[lilac stag]

I think the “skill expression/difficulty” is still part of why the spec struggles with getting play time in mythic

[jaunty heath]

Even tho the window was tight as shit

[jaunty heath]

Ya even tho most of the difficulty just lies in the spec being very krangly

Like you can read your Talent tree

[lilac stag]

it’s a fuck ton to keep in mind compared to so many specs

[jaunty heath]

And you don’t have a single clue what’s happening

[lilac stag]

So we have 2 90 second CDs, and we don’t stack them?

[jaunty heath]

I mean tbf it’s better than before

[lilac stag]

Maybe delete blades. Give Flag 2 charges

[jaunty heath]

All tied in with transmitter this season

It’s a bit much

But ye it’s been better

[lilac stag]

It’s actually comical the difference between ST assa and sub

[jaunty heath]

Pre rework was crazy to learn

But also a very fun experience if you are into that

Im part of that minority

But it’s pretty bad for anyone not into complex/steep learning curves

[lilac stag]

Which is most of the aging wow player base.

[vale pine]

subtlety got a lot easier ^^

10.2 was hard to learn, the baseline now is fairly simple

[ember mural]

If someone have time, check this pls

[void hound]

i find this tier to be harder than 10.2 for sub

[rocky ocean]

no idea what 10.2 sub was but the 1 charge symbols scare me

[void hound]

well you had two symbols every time you went into cds cause of shadowdust

also one symbol charge made it easier cause you would always send it

there was hardly any decision making

plus supercharger wasnt a thing

so it really was a fire and forget kind of spell

[keen dome]

10.2 was a lot of fun, but def fiddly. Figuring out when to send vanish for dust, etc. Smolderon was a ton of fun with double on use.

I reaaaally like current Sub though. Supercharger, symbol charges, etc. It feels great.

[rocky ocean]

subtlety

[void hound]

id argue 10.2 was easier cause you only ever had to think about vanish use, and thats it
now you have to think a lot more about every dance, symbols, cold blood and sec tec (if you want to min max)
also the fact that you can get into situations now where depending on cp generation (or lack thereof), you can squeeze in extra spells, adding even more decision making to the mix

[void hound]

i agree, smolderon was absolutely goated

also very high skill cap, i dont think ive seen a log where someone performed the double cold blood + snap shot tech perfectly on every intermission

smolder was also great, cause it 100% came down to execution
kyveze is unfortunately a lot more RNG due to how the fight is designed

[rocky ocean]

someone said RNG???
*Blizzard enters with goblins and gamba season

[void hound]

kvyeza is a great fight to progress on, but can be frustrating when you want to parse

[keen dome]

Sub Queen best queen

[void hound]

i agree, silken court too

[keen dome]

Oh I mean Kyveza. She's the sub queen.

[void hound]

oh

agreed, all her animations and spells are so cool

[vale pine]

blizz should add them to subtlety

[tribal blade]

that's kind of a wild take

[void hound]

we will get them when the sub clone rework comes around

sectec will do little regicides

[tribal blade]

dust sub goes down as one of the hardest rotations in the game

second to arcane mage

[void hound]

only hard part about 10.2 was playing smold to perfection

well

not saying 10.2 was easy

[leaden prairie]

i mean the only hard thing is figuring out dust timers tho

once thats done

its done

[void hound]

yeah exactly

[tribal blade]

i guess so

[leaden prairie]

and 99% of people werent even doing thatr, just checking a sheet

or lorgio

or whatever

[tribal blade]

but i think it's still universally accepted as one of the hardest rotations

"nuclear difficulty" as yoda put it

[void hound]

i disagree

[keen dome]

Extremely easy to mess up, and if you did mess up, you couldn't realistically recover.

[void hound]

maybe as a baseline, sure

but when talking about min maxing

current sub is head and shoulders above

[tribal blade]

nah i don't think so

but it did shift the focus on what we track now

i think sub is still not simple

for sure

[leaden prairie]

sub is always the easiest spec in the game

[void hound]

so true, just shadow dance lol

[keen dome]

glow purple, destroy boss

[tribal blade]

it's just crazy to me that everyone was losing their minds over dust sub

and now that it's gone you guys in here saying it was easy

[void hound]

that is actually true, messing up shadowdust was a lot more punishing

[leaden prairie]

I havent changed my stance

[void hound]

im not saying its easy, im saying 10.2 sub was easier when it came to min maxing

[leaden prairie]

i tought dust was piss free on progress

[void hound]

(except for smold)

[leaden prairie]

it was just mega annoying on reclears when timing changed every week

[keen dome]

I think the reason Sub is seen as really difficult back then is you have no room for mistakes, and it has a big learning curve. Min/maxing is something else entirely imo, too. But like for most people the baseline spec stuff was a lot and one error and poof, damage gone.

[void hound]

you never had to think about sec tec or symbols, now you do
and there isnt one sheet solution for every boss

[leaden prairie]

but it wasnt even hard, just had to think about it for more than 10s

on god

[keen dome]

Whereas modern Sub today is a lot easier as a baseline, it's simpler to understand and play and errors aren't as punishing. But all the weird little things you need to do to really push that damage up make it waaaay more complex.

[void hound]

i only yesterday discovered you can sneak in an extra sec tec on ansurek p1 if you lust on pull

[tribal blade]

yeah sub right now still creates quite a bit of complexity for the average wow player it seems

i did a weekly mists a few weeks ago and there was a guy talking about how he couldn't get his sub rogue to do damage

and then i did 2.5m overall

and they were so confused

[keen dome]

I had one in a pug raid I ran where he did like.. 460k DPS on Court?

[void hound]

it doesnt help that only giga sweatlords play sub right now
so many good players i know only parse green because of it

[tribal blade]

haha that sounds about right

[keen dome]

If you don't know to sync stuff up, and don't know how to properly leverage your big buttons, you do no damage.

[keen dome]

I actually had him for most of the raid. He did mechanics flawlessly but just no damage. Really nice guy, though.

[tribal blade]

it's really hard to parse as sub atm it seems

that's for sure

[void hound]

yeah

[tribal blade]

awww nice 🙂

[keen dome]

I'm sad I lost my rank 69 bloodbound parse. It was perfect.

[tribal blade]

even if i play out of my mind on bosses i'm still purple parsing

[void hound]

although i gotta say

[tribal blade]

when i was expecting an orange

[void hound]

lots of top logs out there, which play imperfect timings

unfortunately RNG can carry you really hard currently

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

rng and timings

kill timings are so important for sub atm

you can see it on wipes

[void hound]

well less so for the later bosses

but yeah

[tribal blade]

wipe on a boss right before your cds are coming up you're low on details

wipe on a boss right after a cd set you're on top

[keen dome]

Ye

[tribal blade]

it's crzy

[void hound]

we killed ansurek a bit too fast last night, missed out on the big cold blood sec tec on the last little spider boys

unluck

[keen dome]

rip

[void hound]

at least on ansurek and silken you cant get fucked by mechanics

(aside from bad portal timings i guess)

[keen dome]

I hit my firsy 6m+ burst on Court last night (Heroic, though) which felt good. Just absolutely monstering the bosses.

[void hound]

silken court is fun

[keen dome]

I love it

[void hound]

although thats the boss i struggled most with this tier

[keen dome]

I did manage to find a tank on Wednesday who decided the best way to tank them was seperate, though.

[void hound]

nah thats cooked

[keen dome]

And most of those parses are probably in here posting, haha

[void hound]

real

[leaden prairie]

nice

[tribal blade]

mental becomes better once you stop chasing parses

and just care about killing bosses

[void hound]

well

[keen dome]

A kill is a kill, esp a first kill.

[void hound]

with proper execution and ethical gameplay you can pretty much always parse purple

[keen dome]

And then it's comedy funtimes.

[hollow spear]

You notice that Sub is played mostly by the die hard spec enjoyers

On Sin, it's relatively easy to get orange parses

On Sub, you have to have good fight timings and still sweat through the entire fight 😄

[rocky ocean]

Instructions unclear. Secret technique is now a targeted aoe like rain of fire with 10 sec delay

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[hollow spear]

Sectec now teleports you to your target if you are standing further than 3 yards away.

[tribal blade]

i feel sorry for all the sub rogues who missed out on every single strike tping you to your target

now THAT was podracing

and a lot of dying to stuff

[void hound]

i feel sorry for all sub rogues who happen to to press coup at the apex of the ansurek jump only to come down crashing like they were using death from above

[coarse nexus]

striking the worm boss in shadow moon is a core memory of mine

[keen dome]

I have fond memoeries of a wipe on Razageth 'cos another Sub strike'd the boss in the final phase with the bomb on them.

[lilac stag]

Pour one out for everyone that missed catlike reflexes, especially on open world PvP

[keen dome]

Bring it back..

[tribal blade]

things with flavor for sub? that's crazy

[lilac stag]

dismounting someone and falling with them in unison only to land clean as they go splat.

[keen dome]

Yeeting myself towards the raid instance by dismounting was a lot of fun

[hollow spear]

min-maxy question: if you go into symbols outside of flag and you have coup up, do you coup or sectec first (if you'll have sectec up for your next burst window)?

Probably doesn't matter, but it just happened and I wondered.

[vale pine]

oh god, pls no

[short radish]

i was a dust hater

but TWW dust sub was okay

i liked that functionality

[worn cape]

Do you still use Vanish on cd for dps or save it for mechanics?

[short radish]

Once for opener, then save for mechanics

The little dps you gain is offset by its utility

[worn cape]

Right, thanks!

[vale pine]

i did like the flexibility of dust

it just added a lot of complexity, so i am okay with what they did

the main problem now is the reliance on good trinkets

[rocky ocean]

how can they fix it?

[random mason]

move power from trinkets into the base kit

[plush roost]

Pressing Shadowstrike during trilliax beam

MonkaS

[tribal blade]

me too!

[tribal blade]

b r o

having to stand in melee range or else dying to the beam

i remember that so well on trilliax

[plush roost]

It made me better at the game

My uptime went way up!

(for fear of dying)

[tribal blade]

i loved sub during legion

[alpine wraith]

dust was kinda cool if you knew that optimal performance was not the goal sometimes

being able to crank when needed

[tribal blade]

i agree, it did feel really good if you timed cds well

foreseeing needing cds in a key and then planning ahead of time and banking vanish charges

[plush roost]

Dust on prog

Dust on parse

[tribal blade]

maybe it's because i have smol brain and not galaxy brain

but dust squeezed my tiny brain for all it was worth

[keen dome]

I prefer Sub how it is now but I came to like Dust in S1 of TWW. But S1 of TWW sucked fo rother reasons lmao

[tribal blade]

dust was also horrible if you are terrible at math like me

[keen dome]

1Dust Brew though. Now that was the goat

[plush roost]

I have to thank hachadino for cooking up THE ROTTEN in df season 2. Made me wrap my head around dust before it was cool

[tribal blade]

it took me a really long time to get the hang of dust

[plush roost]

Was it ever good idk i never parse well. But it was a great break from "i spam gloomblade"

[keen dome]

Same and without this discord I wouldn't have.

[tribal blade]

gloomblade doing damage

i remember those days

[fallow nimbus]

Dust in farm/hc boosts was goated if you knew how to pull cds

[plush roost]

I kinda wish there was a viable lingering shadows build

But then again, that scares me

I also wish we had seal fate again

Crit being a good stat felt right on sub to me idk

[keen dome]

Same.

I liked Crit/Mastery stacking

[plush roost]

Always super hype to gloomblade twice and already be at 6cp from sht procs

Who am i kidding tho, shadowcraft is the best thing to happen to this class

[tribal blade]

ME TOO

a lot of people didn't like what seal fate did to sub, but i loved it

[round latch]

seal fate was goated idk

racoon said it was trash iirc

[tribal blade]

it also fixed sub's cleave issue

yeah quite a few people didn't like it

to me that was the best CP generation sub has had in a while

you had a constant flow of decent CPs always

it felt good

but it also caused sub to have quite a flat damage profile, another thing people didn't like

[round latch]

cant imagine anything good enough as seal fate,across all rogue specs

loved it,still do

[vestal escarp]

But it wasnt seal fate

Anyway we got craft for seal fate

So all good

[tribal blade]

i phrased that badly, it was part of the reason at least

haha yeah, craft that hyper pushes all the CPs into symbols

[vestal escarp]

The flatness came from dancing every 25s period, not speccing into flag and aberrus tierset + lingering giving good damage outside dance

[lilac stag]

Raccoon is right

[round latch]

raccoon is annoying,cant even feel happy in my delusion

[lilac stag]

carry on with delulu

[sullen hare]

I don't exactly miss being a gloomblade spam gamer

[lilac stag]

Why would you miss spamming backstab?

Just play classic at that point

[void hound]

seal of fate sucks

backstab/gloomblade doing damage sucks

[sullen hare]

I think my biggest problem with the spec right now is that it feels like they have to take one or two things back if they give us one good thing

revert the duration change to shadowblades and I'll be (mostly) happy

having to put it at the end of the opener is cursed

[swift tinsel]

or shorten flag and buff the mastery

and/or its damage

[lilac stag]

Blend blades into dance and delete the ability. Give flag 2 charges.

adjust whatever cd length you need to. Remove cdr

[uneven scarab]

Rework tornado to be an actual damage ability

instead of the trash it is rn

[lilac stag]

delete it

[uneven scarab]

while ur at it

[swift tinsel]

and also rework tree pathing and almost everything else about it

[uneven scarab]

Tornado makes ur next sectech cast twice

Ultimate nuke

[swift tinsel]

2nd sectech + max flag + flawless stacks + double cast = orbital strike

with CB

[fallow nimbus]

Tornado should replicate the next 4 finisher

[uneven scarab]

Literally an ion cannon

[fallow nimbus]

Instant dmg finisher

[swift tinsel]

tornado turns any on-use into a 1.5min cd

[uneven scarab]

LMAO

[swift tinsel]

so we aren't stuck with what's coming in s2

[lilac stag]

Just keep it simple. Aoe rupture spread

[swift tinsel]

or lack of what's coming

[lilac stag]

but imagine rogue, specifically sub getting looked at

[uneven scarab]

id like to see more interactions with fw tbh

[uneven scarab]

Maybe one day

[swift tinsel]

I'd like to see fw either deleted or made better in any way

[uneven scarab]

To me its just there and like

You pay 0 attention to it

[swift tinsel]

Its like worse Mark of the Crane for windwalkers and I'm jealous theirs is getting deleted in 11.1

bc you need it for shadowed finishers

but it isn't even interesting

in st it doesn't exist bc its always there, in aoe you gotta do the janky 2nd rotten storm thing

[uneven scarab]

Its a mess in aoe

and yeah its nonexistent in st

It just feels pointless

Its just there

[lilac stag]

FW is pointless

[swift tinsel]

Agreed, I'd like it better if it did something impactful for one or the other so they can make the interaction deeper

[lilac stag]

flavor my ass

[swift tinsel]

instead of having it for both and it ends up like it is currently

[uneven scarab]

Make it give cdr or something when you hit a target with fw idk

[swift tinsel]

or double your cdr

[lilac stag]

Fuck that. Delete cdr

[uneven scarab]

Ideally yeah

[swift tinsel]

I'd be okay with that too

uptime-driven stuff is cursed

[uneven scarab]

Yeah

[swift tinsel]

because you can get giga fucked for no fault of your own

[uneven scarab]

Love my dance being 10 seconds delayed of where i expect it to

cuz boss dashed across the arena and i couldnt hit him

[lilac stag]

adding a second flag would give us flexibility. Not necessarily tie us into a 90 sec trinket and could just get rid of all cdr

[swift tinsel]

had sikrans where I got 3 charges and 2 deleters and basically afk'd

[lilac stag]

people like having charges.

Peasants are happy

[uneven scarab]

Double flag opener press every cd

massive opener lust burst

I do like charges of things

[swift tinsel]

Charges are great

100%

[lilac stag]

you’d likely need some type of throttle to not just hit it twice

[uneven scarab]

I more meant back to back

[lilac stag]

sure

[swift tinsel]

built in csq

imagine if both flags could stack if you double hit

[uneven scarab]

Speaking of that i just remembered the triple sectech opener

Miss her

[swift tinsel]

so yo ucould either send an ion cannon or flex it

[uneven scarab]

Cant wait for a damage amp boss to show up and we just press all cd’s on one part of a fight and afk the entire rest of it 💀

[rocky ocean]

Im simming 639 transmitter and it tilts me so much that its gonna be bis s2 and Im probably not going to get it

[uneven scarab]

Its 100% gonna be nerfed next season

[split jay]

yk what i noticed?

rogue players

have the biggest mucles

[uneven scarab]

And of course they’ll take the time to nerf it but wont take the time to make a 90s agi trinket

[uneven scarab]

Not the only big thing rogue players have 😉

[split jay]

poopstalker u give me 4 inch vibes

❤️

[uneven scarab]

I was gonna say big daggers

But yeah that too

[split jay]

its not the size of the wave, but the motion of the ocean

[uneven scarab]

Absolutely

[hollow pawn]

Quick question, I’m simming like 600k more than i average overall in dungeon slice. Do I just suck or is that normal?

[swift tinsel]

without logs its hard to say

[warm marlin]

Dslice is not really representative for actual key overalls

That sort of thing will depend hugely on dungeon/route/other dps/raid buffs/deaths etc

[viral girder]

let sub rogues use fist weapons you cowards. #blizzard

And im not saying that to use the steam punk fist weapons.... Totally not

(I am)

[keen dome]

Letting us use a fist OH would be nice.

We can totally equip them, we just can't ever realistically use them, which is sad.

[viral girder]

Wasnt there some shit in dragonflight where we would use a dagger main hand t make use of dagger skills but off hand wise we used a sword for better damage and stat prios?

[keen dome]

I don't believe so, no.

!OH

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[viral girder]

I remember there being something like that due to stat weights on the pvp weapons at the least.

Maybe less relevant in PvE

[alpine wraith]

last time we used slow off hands was in bfa

[summer mica]

really curious what they are cooking for season 2 - sub def needs muuuuuch love

[alpine wraith]

because folly and ra den first wep were kinda op

[molten citrus]

even in pvp it's terrible. people are just stuck in the past.

[alpine wraith]

likely they are cooking nothing

[keen dome]

poison toggle

[alpine wraith]

yea just in line with crimson vial pickpocket things

[uneven scarab]

One day maybe

[silent ruin]

Is it normal for flawless form to drop off for sometime during st rotation

[alpine wraith]

yes

[silent ruin]

Ok thanks

[uneven scarab]

yeah outside of cd’s it drops

cuz ur chances are quite low

[sick jackal]

christmas is officially over right?

we should expect changes this week

[tulip gorge]

More like next week

[silent ruin]

Changes to sub?

[keen dome]

Christmas isn't over until the raid bosses stop wearing christmas hats

[sick jackal]

just changes

[twilit phoenix]

Changes this late into the season?

What are they gonna change

[sick jackal]

for next season

lets say development notes

[silent ruin]

Is trickster or stalker better for mythic court

[uneven scarab]

trickster iirc

[silent ruin]

Also, is there some bug when coup de Grace doesn't cast, instead it does old slice n dice animation n combo points are lost for literally nothing

[formal helm]

Yeah, good one.

Sub getting changes?

Mby they buff bp again.

[alpine wraith]

yep sometimes if you dont have slice it does that

[silent ruin]

I see thanks, ya noticed it while skinning

[idle aurora]

You have my attention why does one of the top dmg specs need much love 🙂

[keen dome]

Well, it'd be cool if they could fix the laundry list of bugs. And some of the big issues with the tree. Also coup's charge.. And all of Deathstalker

Also poison toggle

[idle aurora]

Sure then you get to see we fixed this bug and in returned lowered dps to compensate 😄

But yeah I’m all for bug fixes

[swift tinsel]

That's my biggest gripe with sub atm

besides blizz trying to shoehorn us into DS

[vale pine]

some of the bugs, e.g. combo point refunds can be delayed by up to 3 seconds when playing with replicating shadows

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, which feels awful

[vale pine]

DS suffers from cdr problems, it is why trickster is in general more fun to play

outside of that, we have a lot of mediocre or bad talents

[swift tinsel]

I exclusively play trickster because it feels very fun

but agreed, many talents are either weak, badly designed, or their intended interactions are bugged

and pathing is odd in some places

[lilac stag]

Odd? We have like one, maybe two viable paths.

[swift tinsel]

The whole thing has felt more or less abandoned besides swapping dust with perception

since 10.2

[lilac stag]

well supercharger made the spec playable

there’s just way too many minor and major issues for it to be as good as it really could be

ie more than 30 people want to play it

[novel plaza]

did they change something with the first boss of mythic? i did 2.1m dmg but the logs show a grey parse....

[warm marlin]

the adds do not count

[novel plaza]

when di they chnge that o.O

[warm marlin]

.7?

i think

or just after

[hollow spear]

Ever since they made that change, adds take surprisingly long to die 😛

Before the change they got instagibbed

[novel plaza]

thatz so lameee

do adds on rash count too or no?

[jaunty umbra]

no

[vale pine]

tbh the change ended up better than assumed, the current version is fun

[swift tinsel]

I more so mean the entire rest of the spec tree

there's been quite a few pain points with it that haven't been addressed since the 10.2 rework

and before that

[vale pine]

many of the talents ended up already bad/outdated in the very first iteration of the tree

it just happens that the dev team felt diffrently and found other specs/classes more in need of attention/change

[swift tinsel]

Right, which is why it feels abandoned

because it was only partially iterated on before attention was given elsewhere

[vale pine]

i think there was attention given to it

but

[swift tinsel]

and the followup has been very piecemeal; supercharger + death perception was a good change, but there's still alot of work to be done

[vale pine]

the problem was so many bugs

so rather than trying to make sub good, bugfixes took priority

on top of that, the attention was shared between assassiantion and subtlety

and comparing how many talents got changes/iterations, you can argue sub wasn't that much of a focus

[swift tinsel]

precisely

[vale pine]

but i am not complaining, as mentioned sub is fun

which is probably more than you can ask for

also if i would look at rogue atm

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I'm not saying sub isn't fun. Just that my biggest gripe has been bugs that are still around

[vale pine]

i would rly want to rework killing spree

[swift tinsel]

and how those bugs affect the tree

[vale pine]

the spell is core to one of the hero talents and so outdated i am still surprised it unchanged

[swift tinsel]

Meanwhile pack leader for hunter is getting its third rework

dark ranger another update

priest healing specs

shaman updates

it's hard not to feel ignored

[vale pine]

I think play rate palys a central factor

[swift tinsel]

Oh for sure

hence why paladin gets new toys constantly

(ignoring blizz's beef with holy paladin)

[vale pine]

it makes sense why assassiantion was intentionally tuned so high

and why it recived so many talent updates comparably

at least it is my theory

subtlety seems to be seen as "good enough" to keep in the current state

[swift tinsel]

That makes sense though, if sub got that kind of tuning and influx of players I'd assume we'd see a bit more dev time

More eyes on the spec

Sub pops up on the Wowhead weekly raid charts and folks don't question much

[vale pine]

sub is now tuned rly good

[swift tinsel]

I'd argue its the barrier for entry vs sin

[vale pine]

so nothing to complain, being in the position of doing good damage is not the time to get feedback heard

[swift tinsel]

bc sub is seen as way more difficult to pick up

[vale pine]

for what its worth, i hope we see more changes in 11.1

but i don't rly know if we do, e.g. the tier set is only rly remotely interssting on sub

[swift tinsel]

Even if they just give a prospectus on how they feel sub is doing currently and if they have any future plans

like they have for a lot of other specs

[vale pine]

and this probably means the dev focus will be on tier set rather than the specs

[swift tinsel]

From what I've seen there's a lot of unhappiness around tier sets

[vale pine]

and after that, there might be problems which affect more people on sin/outlaw

[swift tinsel]

which is justifiable imo

idk my tinfoil hat hopes for a big set of new patch notes with ptr release

[vale pine]

i mean, it is possible

blizz isn't the company where transparence is a high priority

so what is in the works is always seemingly super secret

[swift tinsel]

I mean to a point that's true

but if you look at the patch notes that came out for 11.1 ptr so far there's sections of why they're making the changes they are or aren't making for some classes/specs

even if they said something along the lines of "we're happy with sub's current performance in raid and mythic plus so changes aren't likely to be coming with 11.1" it would make a very big difference in perception

instead of the dooming into the void we have now

[vale pine]

it might be that the team/person working on rogue has not finalized changes

[swift tinsel]

Which would be totally fine

if that was communicated

iirc that kind of thing has been the case previously

I'm 100% okay with having information even if its to say "changes incoming, stay tuned"

[twilit phoenix]

“We’re scaling up transmitter item level to the current tier”

[swift tinsel]

If they do I'm quitting lmao

[formal helm]

At least transmitter lines up w/ our cds

Iirc there's no 1.5min cd trinket in 11.1?

[swift tinsel]

No stat ones, just damage

[formal helm]

Someone correct me if I'? Wrong

I'm*

[swift tinsel]

there's a pair that do a single instance of damage on a 1.5min cd

Cleft has a minecart one and I think priory has another?

wait meadery

its a bee bomb I think

[formal helm]

Isn't the priory the one with that trinket that gives stats too?
But I think that one's 2 or 3 mins

[swift tinsel]

That's 2min

[formal helm]

Yes that

[swift tinsel]

Cinderbrew and Cleft have 1.5min on-use but they just do damage once

[formal helm]

I generally don't like those tbh

[swift tinsel]

Same

mandate is interesting to a degree bc you can snipe with it

but if its just like Dreadfire Vessel again I'm not excited

I like when I do my damage

[vale pine]

I don't rly like to set expectations high, we had too high ones for 10.2 and further when what we got ended up mostly small changes and often changes which did not improve the status quo

[swift tinsel]

Oh my expectations are subterranean at this point

My only real hope atm is that the stacking damage from the tier set is a rate that makes it not feel awful if you get reset going into cd's

or encourages degenerate finisher gameplay loops to preserve it

[vale pine]

i hope realz or whoever is in charges of change is willing to discuss things

[swift tinsel]

100%

it was very, very nice when he would pop in here and discuss

He's been in Fel Hammer lately

here and there

[vale pine]

but he kinda did not do that since Dragonflight, so chances are fairly low

[swift tinsel]

Yeah, I'm not holding out much hope

[formal helm]

Yeah that tier set looks stinky

Fuck that

[vale pine]

but again, the latest changes ended up positive

the gameplay loop atm is fine even with some problems

[formal helm]

I mean somewhat, yeah

Doesn't feel awful to play at least

[swift tinsel]

I think current trickster basic gameplay loop is very good, arguably one of the best feeling dps specs while in cooldowns

and I'm perfectly fine with having high peaks and low valleys

Having the bit of flexibility we do in the absence of dust makes the spec feel good, as good as it could without dust

I do miss triple sectech though

[vale pine]

wdym you miss sectech

[swift tinsel]

being able to triple sectech as trickster

[vale pine]

oh ye

dust was interessting, i wish we kept it in some form

[swift tinsel]

Same, I was a fan

[vale pine]

but the current baseline is a lot easier to understand, and the game moves towards that

[swift tinsel]

For sure, no boss-specific spreadsheets needed for new players

[formal helm]

Yeh
But dust was fun to play

[vale pine]

it was, but also hard

[formal helm]

I mean yeah

But still...made up for a really interesting and fun gameplay

[vale pine]

the design goal is simplicity it seems, so dust is a problem and it made sense to just remove it instead of keeping it in a form

the game as is has too much complexity thats not needed

dust was not one of it, but still a problem

[open vortex]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pliant topaz]

Woulda been fine if it only worked on defensices imo. It was a nice little niche for the spec

Like 1.5 min cloak vs 2 etc etc

[vale pine]

i did like the idea of compressing cooldowns into a short window

not only defensives

i still think the current version of sub is unique enough to stand out

on a diffrent note, i wonder how many rogues farmed or bought the new glyph

[twilit phoenix]

bro I'd love the ashvane one

the animation for that is so sick

[vale pine]

my gf farmed the recipie on her rogue, its a shame its only lootable with the right profession

[random mason]

that's the only one that changes the animation right?

[twilit phoenix]

yeah that's what I've heard

gives it like an "azerite" flash/glow

[lilac stag]

Which profession?

[twilit phoenix]

inscription I think

[vale pine]

inscription

[lilac stag]

Does the rogue need to farm it, or is it just a pattern

[random mason]

you can just throw up a work order

[lilac stag]

I’ve got a scribe so I’d just farm it

[vale pine]

you need to be rogue too, but no need to farm rly. Can just put in a crafting order to someone who has it.

[pliant topaz]

theres a new glyph? lmfao

[pliant topaz]

Regarding this, I think it doesn’t really work in wow as a game. Would require a lot of dev time to polish it into something interesting and unique. (Get another 2 min trinket and it’s back to being spreadsheet)

But dev time isn’t so cheap so eh

[molten citrus]

i think it's just for outlaw pistols(?)

[pliant topaz]

Oh! Then it’s not a rogue one

[formal helm]

Ff. False hopes.
Thought sub rog got a glyph

[vale pine]

yes, for outlaw tho

[alpine wraith]

there is no new glyph in ba sing he

[pliant topaz]

I’m lowkey excited to open wow in exactly 2 weeks

May the bootys be plundered

[jaunty umbra]

plunderstorm is coming in 2 weeks ?

[pliant topaz]

Ye

[vale pine]

I hope its not a 1:1 copy but with some changes

[sick jackal]

i think they said they are gonna hae new spells

[barren wren]

Yeah, and new rewards

[lucid lily]

Pretty sure you’ll also be able to queue from the PvP menu in game so you don’t have to log out.

[pliant topaz]

jokes on u if u thinkim logging in

[hybrid prism]

been void elf for a while. Went worgen to try them out

[short radish]

wait

what glyph is this

[swift tinsel]

Pistol Shot glyphs

[alpine wraith]

glyph of pedro

[swift tinsel]

is the 10 ppm for the new 2pc new? I don't remember seeing that in the spell data before

[tribal blade]

get on we're farming 16s right now

[pliant topaz]

It’s 10 rppm? That’s roughly 4 -5 stacks per dance cadence. Hmm

[pliant topaz]

Bro im playing league! I’m 250 lp away from GM

[tribal blade]

but how're you going to sweat out several points of IO over the course of 12 hours of gameplay in league

unless i accidently made that make sense

[wind canopy]

[pliant topaz]

Bro IO is fake. LP IS FOR EVER

jk they’re both fake!

It was friends we made along the way surely

[spark tusk]

gold is also fake

so is money

dear god what are we doing here

[tribal blade]

irl is fake

[spark tusk]

TRUEEEE

[wind canopy]

Nerds

[pliant topaz]

Next thing you’ll tell me is even friends we made along the way are fake….

[wind canopy]

They are

[spark tusk]

they are

[pliant topaz]

Reality shattered

[spark tusk]

like

what the fuck is this

????

what is going on?

[pliant topaz]

wtf is that

[wind canopy]

LE photoshopping things

[spark tusk]

Nope

[pliant topaz]

Frfr

[tribal blade]

my friends

[pliant topaz]

Only pfp I’ve ever had on discord was a picture of me and gf, and a picture of Ana de aramas