subtlety

[tribal blade]

ah ok people are right, storm gem is within 0.1% of thunderlords in ST sim

[hybrid prism]

Yeah, I still don’t know what is best. If it procs a lot, it’s better, if not, it’s not. I use it just because it sims higher, but I’m not totally convinced.

[tribal blade]

well thing is as soon as you introduce additional targets storm becomes better right

so on most fights this is the case

also you can make the argument about storm giving you more vers, therefore more DR

[lethal summit]

hey peeps, I feel like I'm losing my mind but what's up with shadow techniques sometimes being hella delayed when it gives the stored combo points? trying to learn sub and I can't find info about this.

[short radish]

Bugged

With replicating shadows

Or w.e that talent is that duplicates rupture

Take improved sht

Slight dps loss but its a mental gain

[lethal summit]

saviour

[vale pine]

its true

[tribal blade]

welcome to sub rogue bugs

[keen dome]

Someday they'll add playable Neurbian's and then we can be the buggy rogue on the buggy spec

[vale pine]

lol

[tribal blade]

i can't wait for the day they decide to fix RS

[keen dome]

Same

[tribal blade]

and then we get a whole new set of bugs to replace it 😉

[keen dome]

It's coming. 11.1. It's gonna do it. Posion toggle.

[tribal blade]

watch poison toggle break something

like it'll break poisons, which will break autos, which will break sht generation

[keen dome]

You'll change spec and still have all the posions and they'll stack.

[tribal blade]

i always thought DB changing nature damage to shadow was a missed opportunity to give sub an interesting twist with poison damage

not something crazy, but just a bit of flair

BUT i'd rather they address the bigger issues

[vale pine]

i wouldn't mind if it was like for dk or similar

[keen dome]

Oh?

like their enchant system or something?

[vale pine]

yes, where poisons replace weapon enchants

[keen dome]

That'd be a really interesting direction for it. It'd be potentially a lot more interesting too

[lilac stag]

How is it more interesting?

Apply and forget?

[clever delta]

Where leggo dagger

[lilac stag]

Too busy making 2H strength weapons with procs

[clever delta]

And where 90s trinket at

[lilac stag]

Season 1

[clever delta]

Man it will be asaa tier again

[lilac stag]

rogue changes surely coming soonTM

[clever delta]

They make 90s classes than forget to add trinkets for them

[lilac stag]

we predicted this the moment it went to 90 seconds

SV hunter at 45 seconds probably not thrilled

warrior and dk still eating good

[keen dome]

Potentially, if it meant they gave them more effects than just damage or w/e. Load-bearing potentially.

[lilac stag]

as a dps only class, I’m hard pressed to see anyone getting excited over atrophic poison in different flavors.

shadow dmg flavor already a joke

Oh wait. We’re still waiting on crimson vial flair.

[keen dome]

It's got the potential to be made more interesting in that right now it's a button we press every 60 minutes (x2). I'd rather just have them be permenant toggles, but I'd be curious to see it do something else

Although who knows if that'd be good or useful.

[keen dome]

You don't like the animation of tossing coolaid directly into your face?

[lilac stag]

Make the gameplay interesting first. Not the window dressing.

which they continue to struggle with

as evident on how badly base spec plays without trickster

[keen dome]

ye

[tribal blade]

this is actually a neat idea

[lilac stag]

a toggle does nothing but minor qol improvment for how much dev investment? Idk

[keen dome]

Three of us!

It doesn't have to be an either / or though.

[lilac stag]

make em 2 hours. Easy fix

[keen dome]

Ideally we get the QoL and good changes.

We should hope for both.

[lilac stag]

Dude you know how little dev attention rogue gets. It’s an either or

[keen dome]

Hope!!!

[tribal blade]

nah dude i think we need to go back to having to craft poisons to use em, and also make them on a charge system again

heehee

[keen dome]

RS fix and finding where the SecTec clones have been fucking off too

[keen dome]

[lilac stag]

Bring back vanishing dust

[tribal blade]

it was an adventure using poisons back in the day

[keen dome]

oh god vanishing dust

[tribal blade]

you would legit run out midway through combat because you used up all the charges

[lilac stag]

can I interest you in thistle weed for your tea usage?

[keen dome]

Ye, I played some Classic and found out. Also you still had some of the jank back in Cata which I recall

[tribal blade]

haha vanishing dust jesus christ

[keen dome]

Cursed times

[tribal blade]

that killed a lot of people

[lilac stag]

rogue just a cursed class.

Davey jones infected combat and it went down hill from there.

[tribal blade]

i would be very open to them doing more with poisons like fuu said

and made it so they replaced our wep enchants

[lilac stag]

sure, but what? Just saying more is … useless

Extrapolate the development.

[tribal blade]

they would have to make them more interesting for sure

WAY more interesting

[lilac stag]

How?

[tribal blade]

but yeah i think it would be a misallocation of resources right now

[lilac stag]

Stop vague posting ideas

[keen dome]

Bring back the throwing weapon slot

[tribal blade]

given how little they want to work on rogue in general

better to see changes to the big things

[lilac stag]

no dk cares about their weapon runes,

None

just saves them money

[tribal blade]

i guess not

[keen dome]

Yeah I think the best possible thing they could do is turn them into a toggle, because it's one less weird Rogue friction thing to care about. Does it actually need to be done, nah. Would I personally like it, yea. So it must be done to save world of warcraft.

Of course there's a laundry list of other, far more important things to be done first

But: posion toggle.

[lilac stag]

You get a dot or an instant poison. What else thematically to poison are we dipping into for dps

[keen dome]

Get rid of posions for Sub / Outlaw like in BfA and do somethign else there.

[lilac stag]

Bird flu poison so target barfs?

[keen dome]

lmao, a CC that makes the target throw up

[vale pine]

poisons have a lot of potential

[keen dome]

Actually give Rogue the backstab Scoundrels have in SWTOR. Which is kicking someone between the legs.

[lilac stag]

Specific examples

today in RH we present vaguebooking spec development.

[keen dome]

I'm very good at vaguebooking

[lilac stag]

They could do so much more with finisher dmg

…

…

[vale pine]

you can go more thematical, why not have a shadow poison on subtlety for example

[lilac stag]

[keen dome]

You could achieve the same result by just moving DB up the tree, no?

[lilac stag]

if that’s the so much more we have some very different definition s of “so much more”

Making instant poison purple and show up as shadow dmg ain’t it

not when the spec is broken

That literally window dressing

[vale pine]

i mean you are dissapointed because you expected a creative example

[lilac stag]

an actual idea.

[vale pine]

but i clearly stated "thematical"

[lilac stag]

not turn shit purple like DB

[vale pine]

a example of a more interactive poison would be the eon effect

[keen dome]

An AoE / ST poison is something I keep thinking about, but every time I do I realize it'd be terrible. And just awkward to do anything with. Oh hey time for a boss let me reapply poisons. Ah, trash, swapping to other poison.

[lilac stag]

You’d be swapping mid fight

[keen dome]

god, you would

[lilac stag]

Which would be interactive at least

[keen dome]

Swapping between Ovinax eggs

[lilac stag]

something to do outside CDs

[keen dome]

Delete poisons, make Shadowblades a poison, roll the combie gen into flagellation

[lilac stag]

eon poison, back to assa rogue in what NH? “I can’t swap off the boss, sorry”

“We hear sub rogues don’t like poisons. We have made them all purple, but still are nature damage.” Nothing else gets touched, spec saved in 11.1”

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, best patch ever

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[vale pine]

you underestimate how much a good theme and visuals matter

[lilac stag]

hahah

[keen dome]

We can have both, though

[lilac stag]

I’ve been beating the visual drum since dfa went proof.

Piss off with that

Poison theme and visuals are not the same

[vale pine]

+1 this

[keen dome]

give SecTec Kyve'za trinket visuals

make Sub the ethereal spec

all in on the bandage mummies

[lilac stag]

expecting any real dev time on the least played spec of basically the least played class is something I’ve come to terms with ain’t happening.

ride it out til it dies

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, sub 4 life

And occasionally terrible patches like 11.0 -> 11.0.5

[lilac stag]

then get buffs you didn’t want

Die DS die

[keen dome]

I really like the changes and how Sub plays right now, tbh. Just not DS.

[lilac stag]

Trickster bandaids sub

Bliz buffs DS

The cycle continues

[keen dome]

Sub only launched with one hero tree

They'll add the other any day now

[vale pine]

i think they should have made them spec specific

[tribal blade]

yeah the crossover between specs is a problem

creates massive issues

[keen dome]

Yep

[short radish]

b-b-b-but choice

you can create cool builds

[keen dome]

Would've been neat to have a very tailored 'tree' that could be added too

Also I'm gonna bet 5 gold that in Midnight, the hero talent trees get 'void-touched' or 'light-blessed' nodes that change how they behave and that's the addition, something like that. And it makes it even more annoying

[vale pine]

we probably get a new class in the next xpac

[keen dome]

Maybe, but I'm pretty skeptical of them adding any more classes.

[jaunty umbra]

another class before 3rd dh spec would be so funny

[short radish]

we got a 3rd evoker spec before a 3rd dh spec

[round latch]

pirate pressing more dances than the sub rogue was peak autism

[dry plank]

When pirate press dance it should literally start dance animation and shoot like pirates the Caribbean

1-2-3-bam-1-2-3-bam-turn around and repeat

[round latch]

it was an insult to rogue's legacy but whatever

[tribal blade]

i still can't think of outlaw without the pirates of the caribbean theme running in my head

[round latch]

same,its just impossible

its scarred into my brain

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/muppet-treasure-island-singing-kermit-kermit-the-frog-sam-the-eagle-gif-25296238

Gunner would go hard as a class.

[keen dome]

outlaw needs a rack of pistol move.

[fallow nimbus]

It's tinker

[keen dome]

Make killing spree pull out a dozen flintlocks and firing them in sequence

With the cyberpunk theme playing, but old timey.

Also bring cannon barrage back

but it's a proc

[steel zinc]

They should rework specs. Like make outlaw tank spec.

[keen dome]

Each time you use Dispatch it has a chance to load a cannon ball, when it loads 16, it fires a broadside canno barrage. there is zero control over any of this.

[keen dome]

I agree with reworking specs, but I don't like the idea of converting anything from X to Y. If anything, add some new specs.

[lilac stag]

I’m assuming they’d add spec to some classes and bring in one fully fleshed out class (bard)

[keen dome]

Yeah. the legendary shaman tank spec

[lilac stag]

at least off the DE survey, it seems more like what’s fit fantasy wise and what would actually be interesting.

[keen dome]

Yeah, I'd adore to see them add some more specs to classes that are mono-DPS too

Like, just do it: Warlock tank spec

How do you make it different from Demon Hunter?

Ah, simple!

Demon Mech

[fallow nimbus]

No way around the tinker

It will have a tank, heal and dps spec

[lilac stag]

Tinker just going to be mech suits, but could be a lot to try to actually add in vs something more straight forward as bard.

I doubt we see anything with the housing expansion. Probably the last one / titan one? Idk

You’re going to need a selling point after housing

[keen dome]

More housing

Muticlass

[lilac stag]

Housing with purple shadows!

[vale pine]

i think playing alts got a lot less fun this xpac

even tho i rarely do, it seems a lot more effort

[lilac stag]

at some point I hope someone knocks the stupid out of blizzard and allows stone and crests to be xfered

it’s still the biggest fuck you to playing alts

[spark tusk]

I mean there's still a lot of beneficial changes so far

[vestal escarp]

Gm

[spark tusk]

like warbands in general, currency xfer, warband bank

[lilac stag]

not when everything is gated behind shit m+

[vestal escarp]

Sin channel still having a meltdown over m+?

[void hound]

many such cases

[keen dome]

Just, like. Delete valorstones

They really add nothing of value to the game in any shape or form.

[lilac stag]

Crests not transferring is way worse imo

[keen dome]

Agreed

[lilac stag]

you’re forced into m+ basically. No one wants to farm low (8-10) keys

[keen dome]

INstead of transferring crests, just make the highest iLevel be 1:1 unlock for account. I.e., if I get a 639 helm on my rogue, everybody can upgrade to 639. Same end result, just less grind involved.

Play the content to play the content instead of grinding the content to play the content.

And also delete valorstones. you do the grind once and are done for the season (Although you still need the items on your alts)

[lilac stag]

their retention would go way up imo if they just let you play alts at the content you’re running your main at

[vale pine]

valorstones having this low cap is still weird

[lilac stag]

most of the specs are so dumbed down, learning isn’t exactly a good time gating excuse.

[lilac stag]

It tells me they don’t play their own game

[vestal escarp]

Even if crests cost was warband, wouldn't you still spam 7s or 10s to drop your stuff on alts?

[spark tusk]

I got an alt spun up and it's like 603

[vestal escarp]

You farm crests that way

[spark tusk]

I still have a 554 helmet that can't be upgraded

and i'm pushing valorstone cap

and struggling to find anything to do with them

[lilac stag]

Nope. Raids and crafting.

[spark tusk]

I just wish it wasn't capped

or that they didn't exist

[lilac stag]

I can get 619 for tier in open world.

[vestal escarp]

But if you need those trinkets or one specific ring

[lilac stag]

sure you’re farming an item.

Not 60+ runs

To get crests to upgrade

on an alt

[jaunty heath]

They missed the point in their heroic/mythic upgrade paths

They wanted to make mythic more valuable

But heroic now is too bad

Like s3 df if you had fully upgraded heroic you would do decent at least

[lilac stag]

626 should have been heroic crests

[jaunty heath]

Now fully upgraded heroic is nothing

[keen dome]

If it was a one-and-done grind you could have an Alt at 626 suepr quick. It'd be great.

[lilac stag]

636 should have been max. Court and Queen 639

[keen dome]

You'd still hit the RNg Myth wall, but at least that'd be done. Also +1 to that.

I really hope for S2 we return to 4/4Myth but I bet they don't address it at all. it's such a stupid friction point having 19 iLevels o fpower locked behind gilded.

Which is compounded by N/H stuff being functionally identical

[vale pine]

i don't think thats true, i just think their design goals are the same as expectations

[vestal escarp]

Nah that aberrus shit was so cringe

[keen dome]

Remove the brackets. Chaos reigns. A drop is a drop, you just need currency to cap it.

LFR drop of Transmitter can got 639 with enough currency.

[pearl stratus]

Then you get LFR prison every week nice

[keen dome]

At least you'd only need it to drop once.

Which would be an improvement to how it is now!

[spark tusk]

"LFR prison" you will nuke that shit and carry people

and it's only once a week

and will go so fast

[pearl stratus]

No thanks

[jaunty heath]

Back to valor

[spark tusk]

because there will be other capped people doing it too

[jaunty heath]

Idk farming 2‘s was also very degen

[keen dome]

Ye

[jaunty heath]

But i would take it big time

Over what we have currently

[keen dome]

I'd rather do that, and have a drop be a drop, than anything we have now.

[warm marlin]

dinars next season basically this

[keen dome]

It would mean loot becomes a bit weird but like.

[keen dome]

we don't know anything about how those will work so not really

Unless we do and I missed it

[warm marlin]

didn't they say it would work like s4 df

[spark tusk]

I don't think they said anything about it?

It was just datamined

[vale pine]

i hope we get soloq sooner or later, could be a game changer for casual mythic+

[spark tusk]

or did I miss a post?

[warm marlin]

ah maybe just datamine

[jaunty heath]

Im also unsure about dinars, I think if it’s capped at 2 sure thing nice qol

[warm marlin]

i know there was something about a 14/14 track like df

[jaunty heath]

The moment you get too many it’s not very fun either

[spark tusk]

Yeah ngl that would improve my qol a lot

[keen dome]

I think so. If they're 14/14 like DF then that'd fucking rock

And you'd be 100% right. So I am going to hope you are.

Bracketless deterministic loot, even just a few choices, would be a huge improvement.

[jaunty heath]

14/14 like 3k valorstones

[keen dome]

I'm ready.

[warm marlin]

yeah is very cool im full 639 this season with 2 hero trinkets since 0 drops in raid and not a single trinket in vault

can't wait for dinars

[keen dome]

Ye

[warm marlin]

the df s4 thing where you just full bought entire gearset was definitely a bit dumb but 2 that come later in season is a good compromise I think

[keen dome]

I've seen heroic Transmitter drop once. Normal.. actually not once a tall. And I've killed her every week on heroic (and occasionally normal) since the raid launched.

[keen dome]

Yeah, like. I think there's a really good middleground. Bracketless stuff coming from bad luck currenc would own. One piece a month or something would be good cadence, or something similar.

Because it keeps people hopeful. You will get it eventually. Or you get it sooner, and can spend it on something else. It's basically a pure, positive change to how gearing feels.

[lilac stag]

3 ilvls ain’t gonna make or break you.

[keen dome]

I liked getting Myth track items as a Heroic boi in Abberus.

It was small, but felt nice.

But I'm a very strong believer in loot mobility being very healthy for WoW, and more mobility and accessibility to higher iLevel stuff is just.. better.

[swift tinsel]

This would actually be really awesome, then you never feel awful about sinking currency into upgrading something that you replace and sink even more upgrade currency into

In a valorstone-less system

[keen dome]

Yeah. And it'd mean getting a higher ilevel drop is just a pure fucking win.

Bracketless system. Get rid of valorstones entirely. Keep crests and crest brackets (Normal / heroic / myth). Keep the ilevel free upgrade system (I.e., your item is 5/14 and a 8/14 drops for that slot. You can take the prior item up to the latters level for free)

[swift tinsel]

Chef in the kitchen

Michelin star

[keen dome]

You could probably make it a step cleaner where it's just seaosnal items that are like that. So you don't run into, say, a weird world drop situation or farming older content, etc.

So the active raid, the eight M+ dungeons, etc.

[swift tinsel]

Like Divine Bell

Agreed

[keen dome]

I suppose you'd fall into the issue of someone just farming a dungeon on normal for a drop, instead of M+ or vault but. Is that a bad thing to give people the choice to target farm items in a way they want to do so? You'd still need currency, etc.

[vestal escarp]

Sark dagger has left the chat

[swift tinsel]

Precisely, if you lock the upgrade currency behind the content you still have to do it and I don’t see that as a bad thing

[keen dome]

Yeah.

[swift tinsel]

If you want the best currency, you have to do the harder or hardest content

[hybrid heath]

Is there a way to stop Symbols of Death from wasting charges when pressing the hotkey multiple times?

[keen dome]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[keen dome]

That should do it, I think?

[hybrid heath]

Thanks

[keen dome]

I can see a few edge case issues with my loot idea. And the major "Well people will grind themselves silly" but, eh. I think people will do silly things regardless.

[swift tinsel]

Let them imo

It’s game and that’s how they want to play it

You should be rewarded for your time investment

[keen dome]

I think the positives would massively outweigh the negatives.

[swift tinsel]

I just wanna see valorstones and crest caps gone

Don’t gate my progress if I’m putting in the time

[vale pine]

there is no reason for multiple systems to exist instead of one for everything

well there is a reason, and it is to improve the player engagement metric

[hazy breach]

The crest cap is very reasonable

Valorstones i dont see much point in

Without the crest cap it would feel awful to do anything else in life besides farming m+ the first week of a new release

Because every second youre not farming somebody else is

[warm marlin]

valorstones are either irrelevant or suffering

[hazy breach]

Now they could have a higher cap or remove the cap of crests earlier on in the season for sure, but the idea of the cap is very reasonable

[keen dome]

Yeah, I wouldn't change the actual crest cap. I think that's fine (esp with the change back to 60 for max crafted)

Just the other bits.

[hazy breach]

The complaint of "i need to do 80 keys to get all my crests" that people have for alts this point in the season

Would apply to your main too and the beginning of the season

[old venture]

the real shitty part is the valorstones tbh

esp for alts

[plush roost]

I think the gilded/runed/weathered etc achieves should outright remove valorstone requirements

Or make them 80/90% off

[charred kestrel]

why have a 2 currency upgrade system in the first place?

[plush roost]

So people who get 7 rings and wanna keep them have to spend a resource ig

Valorstones feel like a multispec currency haha

[vale pine]

mainly talking about valorstones

[vale pine]

We have multiple currencies because thats a common design pattern

you see it in most mobile games, and it is designed to keep you playing longer

[rocky ocean]

current gearing is still light years ahead of what we had to do in s1 of df

[plush roost]

Max ilvl weapons in s1 df (just get lucky in your vault)

Or kill broodkeeper xddd

[twilit phoenix]

The gap between mythic and heroic track gear is unnecessary imo

6 ilvls was fine

13 is kinda crazy

[rocky ocean]

blizz clearly actively put raiding above everything else, which is fair

[plush roost]

I mean having that gap made me stay playing way longer

[twilit phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/ion-hazzikostas-world-of-warcraft-edict-wow-gif-26273936

[plush roost]

Yeye

Idk maxing out my character 6 weeks into the season is justi

Meh

Like season 2 df was so boring cause i had nothing to chase and I wasn't playing godcomp

[rocky ocean]

will the loss of current tier change our ability prio is S2?

[plush roost]

Prio? No, will we afk 10 seconds before dance? Maybe

Let the tcs figure it out once ptr is up

[rocky ocean]

true, I still think it's a 50/50 that they step back from gamba in melee tier or in general

[plush roost]

Tbh it doesn't seem that bad. I can guarantee parse warriors will be infuriated tho

[twilit phoenix]

Sub tier has potential to be super cool

Bummed there isn’t a good 1.5 trinket

[plush roost]

Theres a couple that are lackluster but like sub, ret pal look fun

[twilit phoenix]

Maybe they’ll just let us keep using transmitter

Without nerfs

[plush roost]

Good cope

Transmitter is losing 80% of that agi haha

[rocky ocean]

doesn't a new dungeon have chance to drop something

[twilit phoenix]

Eleem said something along the lines of a 670ish skardyn’s simming lower than a myth track transmitter

[rocky ocean]

or ptr already has everything

[plush roost]

Its just datamining

[twilit phoenix]

Don’t think I’ve seen a full trinket list yet

[rocky ocean]

copium

[plush roost]

Imagine

Dagger

[twilit phoenix]

Survival/feral is pogging

[plush roost]

Dont worry surely we will get a legendary dagger this expansion!!

[rocky ocean]

hunters cant wear maces

[digital aspen]

Please no more legendaries

[twilit phoenix]

Oh shit that’s right

[digital aspen]

A new dungeon trinket might be it

[twilit phoenix]

[digital aspen]

Even a 3 min trinket, but do they even make those anymore?

[twilit phoenix]

We want 3 min, 1.5, or 45 second

Or 15 second

5 works too

[digital aspen]

Maybe there's one that has cdr or something

Don't the returning dungeons have any?

[twilit phoenix]

Pretty sure they’re all 2 mins

[digital aspen]

Well, we'll have more info in a week or two

[twilit phoenix]

Priory has that 2 min on use

And there’s one from raid as well

[digital aspen]

We'll have to see tuning in general

You never know what they cook

Maybe we ll be able to use 2x passives

[twilit phoenix]

Yeah I’m sure rogue is top of mind at blizz rn

[digital aspen]

If they take some power out of CDs and into maintenance

We're all here playing it regardless

[kind bluff]

So do we use only 2 shadow dance and symbols during opener? Or all 3 symbols?

[alpine wraith]

2

[rocky ocean]

is using shadow blades before sec tech suboptimal? Or it doesn't matter?

[alpine wraith]

you will do less dmg yes

[rocky ocean]

#1 kyveza parse btw

[alpine wraith]

just proc better

you also should evis first instead of rupture

[steel zinc]

It's w/e

Such a minimal detail you will los 1 sec of blades

[vale pine]

it is also a lot better than what you had in classic

but i am not sure thats a good comparison

it is healthy to look at the same product and be excited for improvements

but it is also easy to not see if what it does is not the standard elsewhere

e.g. apple fans cheering for apple introducing the world first feature nobody else has

outside of android which had it for 11 years already

[alpine wraith]

i will always laugh at the apple mouse having charging on the lower part

[rocky ocean]

true

[lilac stag]

Crests are worse imo. You’re stuck in lfg running shitty keys. Valor I can attest solo farm / have other avenues.

[glacial tartan]

Hey so curious, should I just macro CB with Secret Technique?

Or is it better to do it without?

[hazy breach]

It is better to use it manually with your second sectech

But a lot of people dont bother

[glacial tartan]

Ahh okay, I don't use a macro for it now and honeslty it doesn't really bother me.

Other question I had is about SB. I see some rotations pop SB on the first use of Shadow Dance and Symbols and some on the second use. Is it jsut preference?

[hazy breach]

What

Shadowblades?

You want it up for during your burst, typically its used right after sectech

[hollow spear]

not sure if it was posted already, but this trinket activates on Shadowblade casts

first application 40s, subsequent application 20s

[steel zinc]

@vale pine how broken is that?

And is that in sims?

[drowsy moon]

hey

this saving symbols for the next blades is confusing

[vale pine]

don't think its broken, one way to find out if its in the sim

[drowsy moon]

I couldnt find the mark where u guys pined the when to not use symbols

[alpine wraith]

for sub it is not super good vs MYTHIC items

but it is very solid even at 606 vs hc and normal ilvl items

and if you get at champion it goes neck in neck vs mythic things and a bit better in AoE

one thing i didnt check in the sim is that if it pops as 40 secs on pull

[hazy breach]

Roughly when blades has 30s left of its cd

[twilit phoenix]

have they released a loot table for the new dungeon yet?

[hazy breach]

Ye

Or well its been datamined

[vestal escarp]

Buff flag

[void hound]

remove coup dash

fix RS

[steel zinc]

the dash is sth that will atleast kill you once every patch

[void hound]

explaining to your raid lead that you dashed into the nova cause you used coup mid air

[twilit phoenix]

oh shit, do you have a link?

must have missed the datamined item list

[steel zinc]

That trinket is kinda busted. I simmed it on 610.

[void hound]

chyup

[vale pine]

sounds quite good

[steel zinc]

Ngl good raidlead should know this stuff. Same was with monks S1 DF with an ability that nuked them.

[steel zinc]

Its from the Island right?

[void hound]

sure it still felt horrible lol

[lilac stag]

Not happening. Animation is tied to it.

[void hound]

we sent people to the god damn moon

[steel zinc]

true what were we thinking :p

[void hound]

make it happen!!!

[steel zinc]

Bro they dont even have staff rn working on the game 😄

[lilac stag]

NASA had a budget and people actually working.

[steel zinc]

What is work?

[void hound]

the last sub developer (2024, colorized)

[steel zinc]

I thought blizzard focused on milk and diversity 😄

[lilac stag]

What the devs don’t do on sub

[alpine wraith]

yea it is quite good if you can get it at champion ilvl might be a thing to farm for a bit while s2 comes and even then

[vale pine]

possible ye

not sure it is worth farming

[steel zinc]

how can you farm it?

It might be worth

let me sim at 619

[alpine wraith]

it drops only on the weekly

so basically unluck

[steel zinc]

my current gear is contact 639 and transmitter 626. It would be an upgrade for me

[alpine wraith]

i mean like 95% of the people dont have mythic ilvl trinkets and transmitter

[steel zinc]

You mean the weekly box we get?

[alpine wraith]

yea

[steel zinc]

yo @vale pine idk might be worth a pin so people have actually something to farm. Kyveza is not something everyone can pug/kill.

[lilac stag]

Not exactly pin worthy. If you’re a rogue doing content still you’re are going to do weekly for ring upgrade. Just get lucky.

[vale pine]

probably ye, its just something extra you can do

[alpine wraith]

yea not worth pinning for sure

[lilac stag]

People could still be running delves for knife vault

[alpine wraith]

yea tbh it is sweet release from knife from vault

at least for sub idk about outlaw or assa

[worn cape]

I saw on WoWhead that queen ring is now bis with the new island ring. But no other crafted piece, are embellishments not that strong that we don't want 2 of them?

[lilac stag]

embellishments haven’t been strong all season

[worn cape]

Oh, not sure where I read that they were good but must have been wrong info then. 🤷‍♀️

[lilac stag]

It’s still using them on wowhead

@worn cape no ideas what you’re looking at

@vale pine Everforged dagger source is wrong in guide

[worn cape]

Just wondering why we used 1 instead of 2 embellishments, that's all.

[lilac stag]

There are 2

Dagger and bracers

[vale pine]

thanks will check later

[worn cape]

Oh, I just looked at the right column and saw only 1 profession mentioned 😛

[lilac stag]

just a typo

The dagger is crafted

[worn cape]

So I want to swap my crafted ring for a dagger basically.

[lilac stag]

are you getting a mythic queen ring?

[worn cape]

Hell no

[lilac stag]

then no

Just sim your gear

bis lists are stuff to aim for in you’re clearing max lvl content

What you actually have is way more important

[void hound]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1226166106880999526/1323018476901634070/image.png?ex=6772fc79&is=6771aaf9&hm=8c9dbb79ced40c18605c97539d5c1bb647b14dbfddce1010ff3b218def6aa1e6&

finally

[lilac stag]

Is there a legible version?

[worn cape]

I see. I am full hero gear now so I thought maybe it would be useful to try to get full bis in hero track. But that's not that important then?
I don't mythic raid at all so hero is probs highest I am going to get, except from the odd mythic vault from M+

[lilac stag]

Just sim what comes in. Crafted ring and neck are more than fine.

[worn cape]

Cool cool cool, got crafted ring and wrists but I doubt that matters 😂

[vale pine]

crafting weapons is probably a easy option you can always do

else ring, bracers, boots, belt are good choices

[lilac stag]

lol @ no cantrip dagger in 11.1. I think every other melee has one available.

[swift tinsel]

soon we realize rogue tier set was a typo and we don't actually get one

[worn cape]

And then they realize they forgot to delete the spec before TWW release

[vale pine]

we get more classes in the next xpac

🙂

[lilac stag]

will fuu finally reroll

[pliant topaz]

yeah bros about to reroll games

the question is am i finally gonna hit masters today?

took me almost 2 months starting from a fresh account to get here but surely today is the day surely

1 lp off

surely i dont tilt all the way down to d4 surely

[spark tusk]

I have no idea what this or this game is but if you're happy I'm happy

[pliant topaz]

thanks LE means a lot ❤️ hope youre happy too

[wind canopy]

Reague of Regends

[pliant topaz]

^

I have been in d1 prison for almost 3 weeks now

surely todays the day

[wind canopy]

Surely

[spark tusk]

diablo 1? holy shit

classic

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/scooby-doo-gif-11460433

[spark tusk]

vintage

[alpine wraith]

my man stuck in 1992

sad

[spark tusk]

a dignified selective choice

[lilac stag]

StarCraft time

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/swag-gif-18906616

[alpine wraith]

brood war loggers

500 apm inc

WITNESS M;E

[lilac stag]

Anyone for some DAoC?

[wind canopy]

Was Armin even alive in 1992?

[alpine wraith]

i may have gotten date wrong too

yep it was 1997

[pliant topaz]

those were before my time

but i was alive in spirit

[wind canopy]

1997

[pliant topaz]

gaming with yall

[wind canopy]

Goddamn

We’re old

[alpine wraith]

im 30 next year

time flies

[wind canopy]

[alpine wraith]

cant believe i've been playing wow since i was 9

and still at it

talk about addicts

[worn cape]

Sometimes I wish I still had the innocence of not knowing what LoL is.

[swift tinsel]

I try to forget each year but then I remember Worlds is a thing

[pliant topaz]

same dude same

[alpine wraith]

i like watching worlds

but i dont play much

[wind canopy]

Anyone but T1

[alpine wraith]

apart from aram

i have a soft spot from t1

watched their first games and now

[pliant topaz]

there are generations of people who grew up with faker

[swift tinsel]

I didn't know aout LoL tournaments until I saw All-Stars in like 2013 watching Insec absolutely body people on Lee Sin

first streams I ever watched were TheOddOne on twitch lol

fuck I'm gonna be 35 in a few months lol

basically dead

[wind canopy]

I passed out drunk on the first game of the S2 Finals because we had a drinking game where whenever a tower got taken down, a kill happened, or a dragon/Baron was taken, we had to drink

[swift tinsel]

yall remember when there was one dragon

peppridge farm remembers

[worn cape]

yall remember Soraka giving mana

[swift tinsel]

or the old rune pages

that looked like poe talent trees

500 million slots

[worn cape]

oh god, not the old rune pages

[swift tinsel]

with ranks

of runes

[worn cape]

I still want my IP back for those

[swift tinsel]

lmfao

[midnight folio]

As sub on CoE 1st boss, is it even worth to switch to adds (at least in a low key), bc it seemed like a massive loss of uptime to do like 10% dmg to adds

[swift tinsel]

if your cd's are up you can basically delete them

if not, eh

[midnight folio]

thats assuming im in a coordinated group rotating small cds

[swift tinsel]

kinda depends on your comp

[light hull]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[astral axle]

Is there a delay between Coup de Grace being cast and it actually hitting the target when you're in melee? I noticed the WA I'm tracking it with takes a second or two to go away after I cast it.

[hazy breach]

It does damage over 1 second

[astral axle]

Got it, so you don't wanna cut it too close if you're trying to fit one in to damage windows

[hazy breach]

Well you cant really control it

Better to get half of it in dance

[astral axle]

Makes sense. Thanks! Despite the awkward bits really enjoying Tricks Sub

[pliant topaz]

its the most fun version of sub ive played (since season 1 df)

glad youre enjoying it

surely the shadow damage on tier doesnt make sub a deathstalker only spec surely.

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/workaholics-blake-anderson-blake-henderson-fur-sure-for-sure-gif-4276923

And a 90 second trinket will show up any day now.

[short radish]

if we dont get a 90sec trinket

we're kinda screwed arent we

[pliant topaz]

not really

we probably just use either double on use damage or 1 on use damage 1 stat stick

[hazy breach]

Very possible we play transmitter too

Maybe not at max ilvl, but fairly far into the season

[tribal blade]

what ilvl is 639 equivalent to

for next tier

i'm guessing somewhere between normal and heroic

[pliant topaz]

lfr

[tribal blade]

damn

so i was a smidge off

[pliant topaz]

depends on the jump they do i guess? like in df from season 1 to season to we went from 421/424 to 452 i think?

and each tier was like 13 ilvls ish

[tribal blade]

yeah the jump changes from tier to tier

[pliant topaz]

so lfr was basically 424 in s2

maybe normal

[tribal blade]

there's for sure gonna be a lot of people losing their minds over not having a 639 transmitter in here

[pliant topaz]

idk maybe they do a puzzle box

and just gut the trinket

[tribal blade]

we've done x2 on use before

we can do it again

[lilac stag]

They’ll gut transmitter and spyglass

[tribal blade]

hopefully not too soon in to the tier

[lilac stag]

1 week into mythic is my guess

[steel zinc]

spymaster they have too

that thing is omega broken

[lilac stag]

so is transmitter on any 90 sec spec.

[steel zinc]

For sub yes

But doubt it they nerf a trinket and then not buff the spec that needs the trinket

[lilac stag]

feral

havoc

kekw

and they have to fight with jump 3 times

unholy

we good?

[pliant topaz]

arcane mage

[lilac stag]

spymaster makes it “look weak” even though it’s still crazy ahead

candle that high up is kinda funny

[jaunty heath]

god sub is fun in keys the fuck

this rework really did it nice huh

[hazy breach]

Yep it feels good

Just wished the numbers were a bit higher during the aoe burst

Might be a bit unfair to compare to shamans, but still

[jaunty heath]

ye burst could definitely be a bit higher for the fact thats what our identity should be

we could take some more damage away from outside of cds i wouldnt mind at all

[hazy breach]

Shaman burst just too high, its getting toned down massively next season

[jaunty heath]

lemme get big number in burst

and do none outside of cds

[hazy breach]

Sub burst is good

[jaunty heath]

its good but

theres more specs than shaman that do better on aoe burst

or am i delulu rn

[hazy breach]

Not really, or atleast theyre comparable to sub

[jaunty heath]

I see, i feel like most specs do more damage outside of cds tho

which i would be fine with

if our burst was higher than theirs

typa thing

[hazy breach]

Ye

[jaunty heath]

if we had shamans burst, and only that nothing else i think we'd still be okay tuning wise

their dmg just kinda rolls for a long time

and our spec does make up for it outside of cds while shaman still does decent outside of cds

[strange chasm]

that sin overall though

is too good

[plush roost]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

i just hit 8% avoidance

i'm enormous

[round latch]

mage is basicly a spymaster class atm

especially arcane and less the other two specs

spymaster is the big window

[round latch]

yo man,gimme a good counterpick for zed

lissandra works?

[pliant topaz]

yeah shes fine into zed

you can also straight up play malphite if youre not comfortable, and he cant play into you

[round latch]

tyty

my annie gets slaughtered into zed,she's a nono so lisandra or malph it is

[tribal blade]

@hazy breach first 20 timed is NW

[spark tusk]

I was just watching it

I'm new to the party so this is probably super basic knowledge about nw at this point

but I didn't realize the throw axes could damage the mobs too

and it does a fuck ton of damage

Like the amount of micromanagement they had to do so the axe hit the big caster and not the little shitters

is wild, and MCing it and carrying it the whole way through

[vestal escarp]

The mc is

Well

Questionable

It's what carries wake from 17 onwards anyway

[spark tusk]

Well I'm impressed

[vestal escarp]

Same for mists you drag a tankbuster trash

That almost does 4th dps slot dmg

[tribal blade]

yeah it's very complicated and hard to do

but eleem HATES it haha

(and rightfully so)

it makes NW impossible to do w/o a priest pretty much

healer priests actually have a really hard job to do micro managing their MCd target, because if they fuck it up the timings are off, or they get melee'd and 1 shot

[vale pine]

lissandra was seen as counter for a long time, don't think she actually is

[alpine wraith]

same as fizz times change

[thick temple]

Hey all, is there a big change in rotation when using DS over Trickster? I've been using a DS build for raid since i see its more popular on WL. But ever since, I've been consistently parsing below 10-15% of my usual. This even happens when I try to run heroic pugs as well. Would love some assistance

My opener is still flag blades with two uses of SD/SoD. Then SD/SoD'ing in between and lining up so I have 2 charges of each before my next flag

[vale pine]

the rotation is similar to before tww/11.0.5

you have your big cooldown windows with flag/blades

and then between it use symbols around secret cooldown

so symbols + dance + secret most of the time

[thick temple]

i see here and there mention of using Sectec as the second finisher after popping SoD or dance/SoD. is this true?

typically i see my sectec available, pop SoD(/dance), backstab, then sectec

or goomblade in this instance for this build

[tribal blade]

we don't press backstab or gloomblade in dance anymore

strike does way more

[thick temple]

oh sorry

i meant strike

it replaces my button for bs/gloom when i dance (or stealth)

I will post in my log thread shortly, maybe someone can help me out again. let me know if a new thread is supposed to be made for new/updated topic

[still trellis]

im a bit too late for the answer, but man playing against garen as zed is unplayable straight up

[lilac stag]

I don’t think it matters. Just use !log.

We’re not exactly a busy spec channel.

[wind canopy]

Garen against any melee mids is really good (if you're an Annie main)

[thick temple]

Just added to my current thread, whoop

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1309977181484617869

[round latch]

not rly an annie main,ive shifted from jungle because i couldnt handle babysitting bot 99% of the games(plat range).I like more top but im playing mid as well.I pick annie vs any double adc andy picks etc just to flash and blow them up.Playing lisandra into akali and zed and gapclosers and stuff like that.And my 3rd pick should be malph for now.. Armin rly gave me my 3rd pick.Like Malph isnt rly banned in games.For top im between chogath/teemo/morde/trynda.Was Rengo/Udyr/Shaco/Kha/mummy jungling

[round latch]

tyty

[tribal blade]

np

[hollow spear]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[void hound]

anyone else doing a league grind to improve wow mechanics?

[vale pine]

think most just enjoy the holidays

[alpine wraith]

blasting PoE2

although we do have reclears planned

[worn cape]

I am new to sub rogue so I’m just doing some keys and pug raid to practice.

[sick jackal]

i dont think it works like that

i got 3.2k in wow but am still shit in league

[void hound]

i actually think it works exactly like that tbh

[void hound]

well that might be due to a number of factors
how much league you have played for example, since a huge part of success is sheer experience

[sick jackal]

i have unfortunately been playing league since 2009

i was 7 when i started league

[void hound]

yeah but how much soloq have you played

[sick jackal]

i have like 100 ish games i think

[void hound]

ok so basically nothing

100 soloq games over 15 years is like 6-7 soloq games per year
ofc youre not gonna be high elo then

[random hare]

guys i want to play sub pure st for last 2 bosses NW, I will play last 2 packs before 3rd boss tho

what is the best talent to play

cuz i never played sub this entire expansion

which one best for that case?

@vale pine

[void hound]

fair enough

[alpine wraith]

just play the dungeon build with first dance i find trickster to have more burst

DS needs more autos and uptime to might be a bit more annoying to play in last boss

although you can save DN to have an easier time to kill the mob down but i think most people just do the skip to not be sent down

[random hare]

i need st

pure st

oh first dance no i cant play that

i didnt play sub entire expansion

i want basic rotation

oh

first dance is different now

wtf

[alpine wraith]

yea fights are short enough first dance is very good

[random hare]

which build is it in the wowhead thing

[random hare]

cuz idk which one is first dance build

[lilac stag]

If you only want ST take the ST build and then take TFD

Drop replicating shadows for TFD

Run trickster

[steel zinc]

Can u show pathing for first dance pls?

[alpine wraith]

was a bit busy

[remote shuttle]

GL on NW... Was timing my first nw13 yesterday and we got the hooking mob bug... He respawned eveey time we pulled, we handled that till last boss where a hook made us wipe... Nc 8 dungeons for+ season and still bugs like this that can break the key...

He spawned like ten times and we were still intime, 6 min for last boss... But finally he made us wipe...

Was my last 13 to time before going 14s... Sad...

[plush roost]

What's the skip tech? Evoker shit? Brez shit? Some vanish tech? Im uninformed

[alpine wraith]

warlock gate or vanishing/meld

and if you used warlock gate you will eventually die but then get rezzed

[plush roost]

How does vanish work? Everytime i vanish it he just recasts on me

[alpine wraith]

you vanish then meld

[plush roost]

Oh you need to be nelf

Tragic i am but a whee dwarf

[steel zinc]

The Beta Within

[vale pine]

probably the trickster raid build

[oblique grove]

whats the difference numerically between nightstalker and trickster in generic m+

[dry plank]

what do you want to hear? run dungeon slice for your character and switch talents

[oblique grove]

bobr kurwa

[alpine wraith]

nightstalker got killed

you meant deathstalker maybe

[oblique grove]

yeah

dota 2 moment

[alpine wraith]

deathstalker is a bit more annoying to play but they do almost the same dps

[vale pine]

deathstalker is good on long high target pulls, trickster else

[oblique grove]

playing without coup feels wrong

[round latch]

u are insane

coup is the onyl thing i dont like in trickster

everything else is just fine

[oblique grove]

I love trickster entirely

just wanted to try deathstalker

[round latch]

i think deathstalker has very high potential but for low target cleave

isnt the best thing

[oblique grove]

Im also so used to not getting parried

[round latch]

i think its overstretched

the parry thing

ye sometimes it happens

just step on ur flag

[oblique grove]

Since i started progging mythic queen as ass

I can feel it in my bones

[round latch]

havent rly raided this tier i think its atrocious idk

[oblique grove]

mythic princess was probably the most fun Ive had in raid in this game

[round latch]

liek first 4 bosses are basicly free

u can pug them

court and kyveza are walls

[oblique grove]

If the first boss wasnt so cringe

[round latch]

court must be like

a torture

ovinax the same

[oblique grove]

I ended up ninja switching to sub for ovinax

I had to make it fun somehow

[clever delta]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[void hound]

ovinax is like the only fight where assa is fun tho

[vale pine]

because it is op on it?

i don't think the fight by itself is fun

[tulip trail]

It becomes much more fun when you skip the third set and can be done with it 30% quicker.

[void hound]

that but also getting the timings down for optimal aoe burst

[vale pine]

i think the fights you can be op are always fun, reguardless of spec

[jaunty umbra]

big number fun

[worn ivy]

Any new good trinkers for M+ ?

from the new island ?

[lilac stag]

Knife from delves (heroic ilvl in vault) is worth farming

[alpine wraith]

the vykrul one if you can get it on champion

[fiery garnet]

Lads, could someone give me pls a quick rundown why are we using gloomblade and deathstalker out of the sudden?

I thought that trickster was the ultimate choice so far

[lilac stag]

It sims slightly higher on certain fight lengths in ST.

Just play trickster. ds is cancer.

[fallow nimbus]

You mean 5min patchwork

But mark and DN are so ass that you wish you stayed trickster

[hazy breach]

its unironically simming like 0.2% higher than the other options

Theyre all about equally ass

But skipping imp storm is very very very very bad if theres ever more than one target, so i wouldnt really play gloomblade

[fallow nimbus]

Side mobs don't count in logs anymore anyways

[hazy breach]

Its not padding if you do more ST

[fiery garnet]

I was thinking about ST, I tried deathstalker on myth Rash today, parsed it 99 and overall I did more than I did with trickster, but it is prolly due to the time difference (like 3-4 weeks ago before the buffs)

[hazy breach]

Mythic rash isnt ST

Thats my point

[fiery garnet]

no but I aint gonna spam rupture on adds yknow

[hazy breach]

BP

[fiery garnet]

thus gloomblade

instead of it

[fiery garnet]

yea ik ik, with trickster it was easy evis spam, I spammed BP now, but I was wondering why gloomblade instead of the rupture talent, if it deals more on the boss rather than going gloom (not the adds ofc)

I had like a 2 week break and all out of the sudden I see so many deathstalker subs topping the tricksters

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker was buffed a lot mid november

[fiery garnet]

That explains it I guess

[worn ivy]

@alpine wraith where do i get vykrul trinket

[hazy breach]

Vendor

[worn ivy]

champion one ?

this is veteran

ahh i upgrade it to champion

its still veteran

[lilac stag]

Weekly box luck

the weekly quest awards a random champion piece

[steel zinc]

First Dance is fun in keys ngl

having endless dance reminds me of I think it was SL

[worn ivy]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iH3AnNVvh8AZz46bC7dj6a this is crazy 😄

look trinkets 🙂

[steel zinc]

Hey is first dance actually decently implemented in sims?

[hazy breach]

Nop

Or well, not with dslice

The +4 seconds at the start of the pull is

[steel zinc]

yeah ds

Like I feel its better then WM or?

Just pure feelcraft

Also dungeon dependent. I feel you get a lot of value like dawnbreaker or mists

[hazy breach]

Def better than WM

WM does nothing on aoe

[steel zinc]

Ok ty Eleem

[vestal escarp]

shocking news of another sub player saying that more dance uptime feels good

[iron fjord]

!log

[tribal blade]

sorry, best we can do is nerf deepening more- blizz

[vestal escarp]

☎️☎️☎️

plague damage is calling

pick it up

[twilit phoenix]

Trickster is the sub tree for sure

Feels so good

[pliant topaz]

shes a safe pick into zed imo. I can easily play around her and just roam if i rush mercs but in less experienced matchups, if u dont rush mercs she can just bully the fuck out of you, she can easily poke you since u dont have the ms to range her Qs, and she just can trade super agro into you with w

[tepid trellis]

i dont even know what i would consider the hardest zed matchup anymore

[pliant topaz]

for me right now is a really good yas with a human jungler. and thats not really a hard matchup more like, i have 0 agency/prio till 6 so cant help anyone

[tepid trellis]

id prolly say Yone is worse

but i think thats more of an annoyance factor than anything

[pliant topaz]

nah u can actually win vs yone

like level 4 I acn win trades

specially if they dont have a lot of vs zed experience

when they try to w you, just w past their w and trade

they dont get a shield, u land full combo since theyre animation locked during w kinda and bam run away

u do this twice, theyll be low enough they cant walk up

[ember hound]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tepid trellis]

only experience i have into yone is against a guy called dzukill

and i wanna kms everytime

[pliant topaz]

well yeah no ones gonna have a good time against that guy...

[dawn summit]

solo ap liss can be rly annoying on any ad midlaner bc u lose a lot of skirmishing power from buying t2s early & doubly so from having to buy mercs + u can't rly itemize mr later, i think liss is one of the better options into any ad mid (except yone) if ur solo ap bc of that, rly rly dogshit if u have ap jg though

[pliant topaz]

i guess. but shes fine most games imo idk, she cant play the game once u have mercs and u can just roam with your jungler and if shes matching you, shes either losing full waves or she cant match you

shes super short range so with t2 u can easily range all her abilities and if she trades in agro with E u can easily punish cuz mercs stonks

atleast for zed, idk about other champs.

[dawn summit]

zed has it pretty easy bc ur base damage is relatively high and ur early spikes are just really really strong

other ad midlaners have it way worse bc if they buy mercs they are losing a massive chunk of their threat in early skirmishes for grubs/first 2 drags

[pliant topaz]

I guess, ive seen qyiana otps just leave lane and pressure and ignore liss so I guess thats how u play those matchups idk

[tepid trellis]

bring back aftershock liss xD

[dawn summit]

qiyana is like a horrible example of basically anything ngl that champ is so weird & so dogshit

but ye if u don't get opportunities to actually take those skirmishes

u basically are sitting on ur hands doing nothing

bc ur 50ms slower

[pliant topaz]

bring back hydra zed man

[dawn summit]

hydra conq zed

gone but never forgotten

[pliant topaz]

pure cinema

[dawn summit]

manamune twitch

i miss her

[tepid trellis]

pre nerf ap twitch

[pliant topaz]

bros gonna call for ap yi next

[tepid trellis]

ive never laughed so much as when i played that into a Nasus once

[main raptor]

ya'll should join a lol discord

...

[tepid trellis]

and my W slow, slowed more than his wither

so just 20-30 of him trying to catch me

[main raptor]

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1113805668625944656

[pliant topaz]

bro wows dead

let the boys have fun

[tepid trellis]

[main raptor]

ur right lets delete every chat thats wow related

[pliant topaz]

based

[tepid trellis]

nah bro this new island is top tier

[pliant topaz]

yeah i got my ring. dont even know how to put the gems in it

surely ill get it by next patch

surely i care enough

[tepid trellis]

i actually loved watching people bash their heads into the wall to try and farm the gems

instead of just waiting a few days

[pliant topaz]

damn... their first time playing .7 patch?

[teal prawn]

No no. You guys, blizz needs to send people in during the holiday to fix it

V important

[spark tusk]

Got further than me

except I still play the game

so what's sadder

[tepid trellis]

yeah how dare they not work on weekends

[pliant topaz]

u mean they dont sleep at their desk?

[spark tusk]

That convo was wild

[pliant topaz]

send elon to buy blizz next

[tepid trellis]

clockin to fix a minor bug on a weekend

[tepid trellis]

chop chop

[pliant topaz]

sorry to hear that chief! hope it gets better

[pliant topaz]

i missed this i think?

what happened

[tepid trellis]

just some doode, being madge over blizzard werent in their officers on a weekend to fix gems

[teal prawn]

They get paid 500k a year they need to be in Christmas Day fixing bugs

[pliant topaz]

except theyre gettign paid 500k in gamer gummies

[spark tusk]

don't worry he's in the hospitality management industry

[lilac stag]

Princess dead.

No transmitter. Rip

[spark tusk]

he knows what's what

[tepid trellis]

i dont even know what that is

[teal prawn]

Hotel manager

[lilac stag]

OF pimp

[round latch]

[lilac stag]

New island is bae

[round latch]

[lilac stag]

Rocket Pack all over the place

[round latch]

[lilac stag]

Island chill time 🏝️

[round latch]

[lilac stag]

That’s the look I’m actually getting right now. Someone needs to go out. Hahah

[round latch]

Mine is too smol still and its very cold outside.. walked him in the garden a bit but thats it

[lilac stag]

The youngster was on my feet. Cat in lap. Was trying to not move. Haha

[round latch]

we did two vaccines already

[lilac stag]

how old?

[round latch]

almost a month old

[lilac stag]

a real baby

[round latch]

a yapper nonetheless

😂

[lilac stag]

Feed me

My girls have been angry. It’s usually snowy and just above freezing and they can chill outside as much as they want to. Instead it’s been between 10-15C and rainy so the yard is a mud pit. Have it blocked off completely.

[round latch]

its mostly rain here but its freezing just before dawn,we are close to the sea so the humidity makes it even worse

[lilac stag]

I think we’re getting a massi cold front next week, but still no snow