still feel like im doing something wrong
#subtlety
pliant flame
rigid iris
I have noticed the similar, and while doing M+s, BP only raises to #2 if big pulls are consistent
tall sonnet
is it bp on 5 targets or 4?
tribal blade
PvP got a better color than pve somehow
they did! that tends to happen a lot with rogue sets
vale pine
vs. pve
tribal blade
the pvp counterpart tends to look better
the color scheme is just not good, a lot of clashing colors
rigid iris
Dunno, I kind of like best the one on fuu's post, the red one
tribal blade
i think they're trying to play on outlaw and pirates and giving us a parrot colorscheme
vale pine
Hunter one looks kinda lame
tribal blade
the dk set might be the best set wow has ever made
vale pine
Shaman is meh
vale pine
dk one has a rly nice color
tribal blade
this is absurdly amazing
vale pine
Dh one looks like its warden
rigid iris
My alt has a job to do :p
vale pine
I think the mage ones are rly good ngl
but it looks more like a melee set for shaman or so
outside of probably the pants
tribal blade
but it looks more like a melee set for shaman or so
i agree
it does like shammy like, not mage
rigid iris
The helm gives DBZ vibes đ
rigid iris
Oh maaan đ
vale pine
looks like moment
tribal blade
it looks like the same person who did the dk tier did the pally tier too
tribal blade
haha! yeah it does
interesting you know that, the monkey king is such a chinese thing
i grew up watching it as a kid
vale pine
Dragonball is based on it
tribal blade
ahh i didn't know that
vale pine
and there was black myth wukong this year
the reference is now a lot more common/known
tribal blade
i don't watch any anime so i'm completely oblivious haha
vale pine
fair, dragonball is something peple know tho
tribal blade
yeah even i know that
vale pine
dragonball, pokemon and probably silor moon
tribal blade
yes i knew about sailor moon a LONG time ago
because it started out as more of a kids show
very popular over here
vale pine
i haven't watched it, the magical girl genre isn't exactly interesting to me
tribal blade
me neither!
vale pine
but i watched a bit of pokemon and dragonball
tribal blade
the only anime i ever really watched was the original ghost in the shell because a friend of mine forced me to against my will đŚ
wind canopy
âForced me to against my willâ
Were they trying to end the friendship or something if you didnât? 
vale pine
sadly need to pvp for the best colors
vale pine
I think the entire concept of "per role" design limits what you can do with the set bonus
keen dome
Hopefully the tradeoff is it's more balanced and worthwhile for everyone.
vale pine
it is tbh a fairly boring "do more damage", but it works with how the spec is designed
vale pine
so i would say "could be worse"
keen dome
high5
vale pine
haha ^^
tribal blade
âForced me to against my willâ
this was back in the dvd renting days
so it was more like "we watch this or nothing"
vale pine
If you want to watch a good anime, spirited away is probably the best you can watch.
wind canopy
so it was more like "we watch this or nothing"
tall sonnet
im switching around channels and servers a lot so i dont know if this have been clarified. When the new tier set says there is a chance to remove winning streak, does it mean the entire stack or a single one from the stack?
keen dome
Some neat stuff in 11.1. Not sure about the catalyst change (No free tier but you get +1 catalyst charge. I guess in theory that's better). The change to depletes is very interesting.
steel zinc
it is tbh a fairly boring "do more damage", but it works with how the spec is de...
It will as you said be 100% bugged. Sad to see that we expect it at this point.
wind canopy
im switching around channels and servers a lot so i dont know if this have been ...
Reads as everything
tall sonnet
vale pine
It is hard to say without having the chance to test it
tribal blade
if it's just 1 stack then the entire tier set is good
if it removes all stacks then it's worrisome
vestal relic
does no one care about the stacking buff on every classe making everyone have dogshit perf in raid ?
keen dome
Yeah
wind canopy
if it's just 1 stack then the entire tier set is good
I doubt this though. Because then would be insanely high amount of damage
tribal blade
I doubt this though. Because then would be insanely high amount of damage
yeah i agree
steel zinc
I doubt this though. Because then would be insanely high amount of damage
Depends more on uptime tbh
I think the median will be balanced around 50% of uptime and then have high and lows depending on the streak
wind canopy
If itâs what it reads, itâs any spells or abilities, so a lot of ways to trigger it
steel zinc
If itâs what it reads, itâs any spells or abilities, so a lot of ways to trigger...
Gotta press faint again as dps spell 
vale pine
But it sounds like you get a short buff on a proc, which can stack to 10.
The 4 set sounds like the buff duration is infinite during shadow dance and you gain two stacks instead of one per trigger + you deal shadow damage every time you trigger.
steel zinc
It's possible it stacks very fast.
Prepull stacking
keen dome
vale pine
detection spam activated
tall sonnet
Prepull stacking
go around stabbing bugs for stacks
steel zinc
But it sounds like you get a short buff on a proc, which can stack to 10.
The 4 ...
The set sounds tbh fine and not as bad as others
vale pine
The set sounds tbh fine and not as bad as others
it is fine yes, could be better but could also be worse
keen dome
I'm really interested to see how the no depeletes once you hit 2850 will work for key pushers. It sounds like a really cool way to solve the key pushing stuff.
steel zinc
it is fine yes, could be better but could also be worse
It's better what we have now
steel zinc
Our current tier set is so forgettable I don't know anymore what it does
steel zinc
I don't know, i think the current set is better
Yeah just talking gameplay but both are very meh
vale pine
steel zinc
I like sepulcher one
steel zinc
Symbols/secret technique focused
Ah yeah true
vestal relic
I don't know, i think the current set is better
the new set number wise maybe gameplay wise i think its the best rogue set this expac
vale pine
there will be a season 3 set too, hard to say which one is the best
but season 1 > season 2 in terms of design
keen dome
I'm sad they aren't more gobliny theme'd.
vestal relic
but season 1 > season 2 in terms of design
yeah s2 stacking buff is gonna destroy perf in raid i can't wait people crying
vale pine
one thing i am happy about is that we did not see the same approach to seaosn 2 we saw in DF
where they try to force people to play the less popular hero talents with tier set bonuses
tall sonnet
I'm sad they aren't more gobliny theme'd.
4set: chance to get 1000x gold from raid bosses
steel zinc
I'm sad they aren't more gobliny theme'd.
Outlaw goblin and the new tier full gamba
vale pine
It would be fun if we could steal stuff from raid bosses
keen dome
Haha
vale pine
but i think would be a bit too strong
keen dome
where they try to force people to play the less popular hero talents with tier s...
Yeah. I was really expecting this too.
steel zinc
It would be fun if we could steal stuff from raid bosses
Imagine we getting weapon oil that worked from bosses
vale pine
image you fight illidan but have 2 rogues which stole his weapons and now its a fist fight
steel zinc
image you fight illidan but have 2 rogues which stole his weapons and now its a ...
I think rogue dual is fun
keen dome
image you fight illidan but have 2 rogues which stole his weapons and now its a ...
hahaha
wheat edge
image you fight illidan but have 2 rogues which stole his weapons and now its a ...
like the Atiesh event in vanilla where you disarm him and grab his weapon
tall sonnet
image you fight illidan but have 2 rogues which stole his weapons and now its a ...
but each rogue wants the weapon the other rogue has, so now they are fighting each other instead of the boss
vale pine
but each rogue wants the weapon the other rogue has, so now they are fighting ea...
easy solution, each boss has 2 weapons now
vale pine
like the Atiesh event in vanilla where you disarm him and grab his weapon
it sounds fun for a minigame, i wonder if plunderstorm will get some changes
keen dome
I hope it has more abilities
vale pine
a diffrent map and diffrent abilities would be the ideal
keen dome
Yeah. If it's 1:1 the same then it's 'solved' so it'll be easy to grind to the end but, ye
New abilities or additional plz
wheat edge
I wonder if its gonna be pirate theme again? maybe Tanaris or some BFA location would be cool
keen dome
It's going to be Arathi again, imo. No chance we get a new map this time.
wheat edge
probably always gonna be a classic location to be fair so it attracts players from all versions of the game
hollow spear
First dance value with the 4 set will be yuge, no?
candid mural
Siren isle would make for a great Plunderstorm location, but it's not gonna happen imo...
keen dome
Way too small đŚ but I agree
haughty mural
strange rover
tierset looking cracked no? any thoughts
keen dome
My thought on it is that I wish it was more gobliny but I think it'll be pretty simple and potent. Nothing amazing, but not bad.
strange rover
it adding kinda gamble element to it on your second and all other dances which sounds fun for me idk yet
well not second third
keen dome
Probably no more gambling or randomness than a typical set. Just the potential for THE BIG HIT
pliant topaz
I can def see it impacting the gameplay for sub
we can fullly control when we dance/sod with charges on both
so we can def try to dance around stacks
will know more once its on pbe server
strange rover
so we can def try to dance around stacks
yeah this sounds fun i dont mind sub as it is rn its my second favorite spec after outlaw but this kinda adds some flavor to it so im hyped
vestal escarp
keen dome
No 1:30 trinket looks a little sad, though.
strange rover
do we even have new raid loottable yet?
keen dome
It's been datamined, yeah.
keen dome
not even from new dungeon?
oh maybe there's a dungeon one. I was just looking at raid.
But it's just datamined stuff so I could've missed it, or it might not be in yet.
11.1.5 will be the poison toggle though. Unless they sneak it into 11.1. But I can feel it. 11.1.5.
autumn flame
Both arcane and unholy have 1:30 CDs so seems odd not to do one that's similar too transmitter
steel zinc
Both arcane and unholy have 1:30 CDs so seems odd not to do one that's similar ...
Transmitter will be strong into hc I assume
vestal escarp
i dont get it tho
it's a no brainer
just turna a strenght one into agi int strenght
vale pine
how strong transmitter is will depend on the season 2 loot pool
lilac stag
they have no brain. The item design doesnât really seem to acknowledge any overlap with class design and just tries to make âcool stuffâ
assuming itâs the same dude that was working on rogue at one point, itâs not surprising
vestal escarp
bomb dispenser
lilac stag
waits for 90 second Delve trinket
vale pine
relax scath, we don't know anything about 11.1
lilac stag
we know whatâs out there. Zero rogue changes (again)
vale pine
the tier effect is not even worded in a way to know how it exactly works
there could be class changes later
11.1 literally just got introduced
lilac stag
Same ole same ole
vale pine
I think you set your expectations high for a 20 year old game with very similar development cycles for at least 8-10 years now
sly shore
There is some items on wowhead already
lilac stag
every thing is perfect. Yay rogue devs!
My expectation it to get looked at. Not fucking ignored every tier.
reality. Ignored and thrown together last minute
Reality, Hunter another full rework.
vale pine
There is some items on wowhead already
you got a link?
lilac stag
thinking things are fine like this is the actual fantasy world
vale pine
so we will see
vale pine
oh you mean the wowhead database
sly shore
Yes
vale pine
i thought there was a post about it ^^
vale pine
lilac stag
arms & unholy trinket.
keen dome
I wonder if it's 100% of the previous blast or 100% of the first? Will it go 500k -> 1m -> 2m or 500k -> 1m -> 1m
I like the trinket themeing at least. They're all very silly and gobliny
keen dome
lilac stag
Looks like just STR
keen dome
Depressing.
sly shore
The names of goblin stuff always gonna be goated
lilac stag
whatâs the sim dif of lfr transmitter and 639 skardyn?
watch mythic transmitter be bis all s2
Until they nerf it
sly shore
đ
keen dome
haha
lilac stag
Because reasons
keen dome
Cursed timeline
sly shore
No 1.5m on use for agi would be fucked
lilac stag
no one else uses 1.5 agility
keen dome
Because reasons
"Our intention was for this trinket to be replaced in 11.1 by a new raid trinket. As such we are nerfing it by 100%"
vale pine
https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=230190/torqs-big-red-button
looks like its not for us ye
lilac stag
Unless... Sub strength angle
Subs strength is the stubbornness we all have thinking this time it will be better. 
tribal blade
i'm less worried about the trinket and more so about 3 lines of rogues changes
tribal blade
the cope is they haven't gotten round to doing rogue yet and had to ship the notes on a deadline
but i dunno
lilac stag
i'm less worried about the trinket and more so about 3 lines of rogues changes
How are the pvpers doing losing duel? Anyone checked in on them?
keen dome
Pretty weird change imo. Duel owns
tribal blade
How are the pvpers doing losing duel? Anyone checked in on them?
lol that's a massive loss for sub in pvp
vestal escarp
Pvp spec
tribal blade
i don't pvp anymore, but i know it's big
vestal escarp
Oh wait
keen dome
It's just weird because it's such a thematic, fun ability.
lilac stag
legit time to get warrior ready
tribal blade
people cry a LOT about sub rogue in pvp
vestal escarp
Dh looking snacky
tribal blade
warranted though, because sub is a monster spec in pvp
lilac stag
Dh looking snacky
We need a warrior, our DH is lit
tribal blade
sub also has the issue of being the top cc bot in the game in pvp
keen dome
Sub is also pretty hard to play in PvP imho (i'm bad)
vestal escarp
Oh heah
tribal blade
it's very hard
vestal escarp
You cant just flag dance sod one guy and pop
keen dome
Losing duel just seems super weird and frustrating because it's such a potent tool in their kit
tribal blade
you have to track a LOT of stuff
keen dome
Yep
keen dome
CC chain, knowing every enemy ability and when to kill. How to engage / disengage
Absolute kings of RBG though, it's wild what you can do
lilac stag
The knowing every enemy thing is what kills me the most for wanting to play more PvP.
tribal blade
1 mistake and it's all for naught
keen dome
I need to finish getting to 1.8k before the season ends for the transmog, but I had a lot of fun turning bg shuffles around by myself.
lilac stag
My brain doesnât have that much room left for WoW
keen dome
Yeah, it's just too demanding.
Esp in arena where you have to not only know what they can do, but what they might do, it's wild
lilac stag
Plunder was so much fun because of that
tribal blade
i started getting way too mad in pvp so i quit haha
it just wasn't worth the hair loss
vestal escarp
Wow pvp is very foul for entertainment/fun
keen dome
So I just went "you know what" and stopped bothering for a bit
tribal blade
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMCVdKnDLp4 still the best pvp clip ever
pikaboo going off on sub rotation
keen dome
tribal blade
the amount of planning you need to have to play sub in pvp is unreal
lilac stag
Wow PvP has the same issue as m+. The amount of knowledge you need for mid/high end is staggering compared to being sure to just sit down and blast for fun.
keen dome
Just going away forever after the season ends, and getting 1.8k is a mixture of luck and skill
keen dome
Wow PvP has the same issue as m+. The amount of knowledge you need for mid/high ...
It's also way more punishing than any other mode because you HAVE to win to progress.
tribal blade
Wow PvP has the same issue as m+. The amount of knowledge you need for mid/high ...
i honestly think M+ is nowhere near as bad as pvp
it is a lot for sure if you're pushing title range keys
but it's a bit more scripted
wheat edge
you are fighting NPCs that are designed to lose in M+
lilac stag
i honestly think M+ is nowhere near as bad as pvp
Only reason itâs not is because you can force it on repeat
wheat edge
you are fighting humans that want to win in pvp
keen dome
Yeah
tribal blade
Only reason itâs not is because you can force it on repeat
good point!
keen dome
That'd be a really interesting experiment.
tribal blade
i think honestly one of the hardest parts of pushing M+ is the relationship aspect
lilac stag
Instead itâs pink is a frontal. Purple is a casterâŚ
keen dome
Two teams. Equal 'skill' (however you decide that). One team has full addon usage. The other must never use addons.
tribal blade
maintaining good relationships is literally the difference between someone 100 points below title and someone 100 points over
lilac stag
Not having a menty b is the other 1000 points
tribal blade
haha
yeah the ability to keep going is actual mental illness
the sane thing to do is to quit pushing
lilac stag
My mental was at a boiling over point last night
tribal blade
every time i've gotten title it's just been pure stubborn bashing my head against the wall over and over and over and never giving in
tribal blade
My mental was at a boiling over point last night
150 pulls "where do i go for queensbane"
keen dome
Sitting in Dornogal for 45 minutes applying to 10's to try and do weeklies. I can only imagine how much worse this is when it's to get into 15, 16, etc keys where you get one shot
lilac stag
ADADADADA intermission
tribal blade
lol
tribal blade
intermission is actually kinda chill once you're used to it, you just strafe left and right
only adjust to other lines
tribal blade
the one big thing i learnt on how to do princess properly is to not move without intent
every movement on princess i do now is with 100% intent on where i'm going
same thing with court
lilac stag
and weâre bare minimum melee
lilac stag
should have no issue with intermission with no melee
And blizzard will fix rogue bugs
keen dome
Posion toggle?
lilac stag
Reality says otherwise.
tribal blade
this was our prog kill positioning for intermission
lilac stag
now two weeks of who knows if weâre raiding
tribal blade
i was literally sandwiched by one of our warrs
it was terrifying
i just played at max melee range and he played as close as possible
tribal blade
yeah rogue SUPER chill on princess
not deal with queensbane dot ever either
i got the dot 1 time over the entire prog
dry plank
huge buffs upcoming, we are probably get the most attention in new patch, sure, and thanks for all bug fixes, great job blizzard, cant wait for new 11.1 patch
tribal blade
huge buffs upcoming, we are probably get the most attention in new patch, sure, ...
i really really really hope they were squeezed by management to put out the notes
before getting round to doing rogue
so they just shoved in what they had started to do with rogue and then the plan is to put out what they cook later
tepid trellis
tribal blade
because if not, that means they once again have 0 plans to do anything with rogue and will do some half baked shit when everyone complains
give us 1/4 of what everyone else got and be like "we did it"
tribal blade
well we'll see what happens in the upcoming weeks
lilac stag
tribal blade
but this is the second time during TWW i've gone into the forums to complain
it's becoming a trend
lilac stag
haha
tribal blade
1st time during beta, now before tier 2
lilac stag
Did they even remember to put up a feedback post for rogue?
tribal blade
i'm not sure if they have a feedback post this time
i just posted it in the general rogue forum
lilac stag
S2 break the meta. Brewmaster, Sub Rogue + who else gets ignored
More than 7 lines of spec changes? No invite
tribal blade
man it's just CRAZY looking at how huge the paragraphs are for other classes
hopefully ours comes next week or something
oh you right, brewmaster got literally nothing lol
least popular M+ spec in the game and gets nothing
lilac stag
11.3 they will rework ret and sv again. Rogue changes: cloak of shadows
sick jackal
every movement on princess i do now is with 100% intent on where i'm going
i just went ds and cloaked like half of it xd
keen dome
I'm telling y'all. 11.1.5 will be our patch. Posion toggle. Fix to SecTec animation. All of it.
tribal blade
i just went ds and cloaked like half of it xd
you can do same thing as trickster đ
vestal escarp
on farm i just cos phase rush and play feint eva during eclipse
lilac stag
Princess teaches you how difficult defensive planning is for people
I like it, but fuck itâs triggering at times when some donât get it
sick jackal
you can do same thing as trickster đ
but ds has 2 more secs
and does more pure st
lilac stag
and is trash to play
lilac stag
and doesnât give raid no parry buff
tribal blade
intermission you're chilling with just feint and evasion
sick jackal
ah i just used cloak only on queensbane
we played 4 heals so i had to help them with damage taken from raid
tribal blade
we played 4 heals so i had to help them with damage taken from raid
that does help a lot already, the queensbane dot hits for a LOT
i'm not saying you're wrong btw, it just feels like cloak is so well spent on not getting the queensbane
and then rotating feint, evasion and you also get decent fade to nothing uptime too during int
lilac stag
Removing the dot from 1/5 targets helps more than saving it for intermission
weâre in 4 heal prog mode as well
it also gives your raid less shit to dodge
but thatâs personal responsibility yadda yadda
vestal escarp
really depends on the raid
cause in intermissions healers are split
and you as a rog can give the guy one player less to heal
tepid trellis
if done right you are always in range of 2 healers
lilac stag
yep
lilac stag
Dorf arms?
vestal escarp
tepid trellis
cloaking intermission is def not the play
vestal escarp
at this point of the season def not
tepid trellis
you are gonna take more dmg from that queenbane dot than you will to lines in intermission
lilac stag
I also like just getting right back to the boss
tribal blade
the dot trucks
lilac stag
whoops
tepid trellis
and my cdr on dance was ruined the rest of the fight
tribal blade
yep losing that uptime is horrendous
tribal blade
big orc shoulders=more tanky
tepid trellis
i cloaked to late on queenbane
so i dodged 50% of it
and it still did that much dmg to me
that shit alone is 10+mil dmg
drowsy moon
U take 4 lines
If everyone was alive
tribal blade
yeah my RL was continually reminding us to immune it if we could
because of how much it trucks
drowsy moon
Each line is approximately 4-5m damage
U should immune orbs
Not intermission
It's about healing
U should use feint actively
On intermission potions etc
tribal blade
you just feint whenever you get a line
tribal blade
and then use evasion before the final lines go out
drowsy moon
Don't pop it on cd
Time it with ur line
If u can u can get of 2 line damage with 1 use
Almost
Its good
lilac stag
im gonna go down a rabbit hole later and see what other clssses are doing on it.
drowsy moon
Ye u pre cloak it if u can for quens bane
I say u should cloak the dash
If it makes u dodge the dash damage
As well
If u get a dash u won't get it again
Basically
Until the intermission finishes
And u go back to p1
hazy breach
As expected theres no 90s or 180s agi trinket 
keen dome
hazy breach
Genuinely we might just play transmitter unless they nerf it
keen dome
That's my fear.
keen dome
I assume there's also nothing in the dungeon pool we could use?
lilac stag
Nope
keen dome
patent crystal
is it time for the 2x on use
lilac stag
possibility
keen dome
Much like the goblin weapon designs: It'll hit hard and then explode horrifically.
tribal blade
remember when we were all excited to not need to use transmitter next tier
i remember
keen dome
There's still hope. They could nerf transmitter!
fallow nimbus
Maybe that 3min trinket gets agi added
fallow nimbus
It's a bit wierd that a trinket with a secondary has just 1 stat on use
hazy breach
Theres an int 3 min one too
tribal blade
they broke out of the ah
they DID
time is money friend!
well running double scuffed on use we're not strangers to as sub
hazy breach
But even if they add agi to the str one it still gives way less stats than transmitter does on a twice as long cd
(obviously it does damage too, but still)
tribal blade
But even if they add agi to the str one it still gives way less stats than trans...
i guess part of the cope would be it's mast stat stick
which is more desirable than haste
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l71nqolJEuE @hazy breach
you can watch them play world of fleshcraft
hazy breach
Ye ik
Now the new trinket gives a fair bit more stats than skardyn on average
So its probably going to be better at completely maxxed ilvl
But 
tribal blade
i didn't realize being on a 1.5 min cd static would cause this many problems
brittle shard
Neither did blizzard
small juniper
Maybe that 3min trinket gets agi added
doubt it, big red button motherlode also str only
prob same theme
stray plank
i didn't realize being on a 1.5 min cd static would cause this many problems
Not surprised, it's been an issue on warrior for a while
stray plank
Unfortunately on use trinket is much more important for sub
tribal blade
yeah sub has a lot more damage in cds than warrior
that's why a lot of the other 1.5 min specs have sidegrades they can use
sub does not
stray plank
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1314650212719005827/1319426132315209921/i...
I honestly think sub is pretty close to sin in keys
jade urchin
I honestly think sub is pretty close to sin in keys
i think sub is unorinically better in some comps
stray plank
that's why a lot of the other 1.5 min specs have sidegrades they can use
I've noticed that a lot of 1.5 active trinkets are strength trinkets and not agi historically too
hazy breach
Well historically there hasnt been a 90s agility spec
swift tinsel
Did they forget to tell the itemization team we exist
tribal blade
i was thinking that, transmitter is an exception
real panther
i think sub is unorinically better in some comps
I dont even have that sin rank man, i'm a true old timer
tribal blade
to the rule
real panther
stray plank
Spymasters is for any class on 1.5 tbh
real panther
i just hope i dont have to jump 3 times for much longer
xD same
swift tinsel
If I have another tier of hunting the orb Iâm deleting
jade urchin
i prefer orb over jumping at this point
stray plank
I actually like that one, I don't like chasing the tiny orb, it floats to bad places sometimes
swift tinsel
You just..jump
real panther
the standing pod spawns*
Tank goes away*
cry
swift tinsel
Time the last one with sectech
swift tinsel
Whereas orb can float into a big-ass boss hitbox or melee spell effect shitstorm
swift tinsel
But it moves
stray plank
orb always spawns same location tho
Yeah but it moves
swift tinsel
Erratically
real panther
the orb is the best of the 3 really.
jade urchin
ye but u can just preposition it to a good position and run there immediately
works 9/10 times
swift tinsel
But you donât know youâre getting orb
Could get platform and need the time to prime
real panther
the pod spawn at the same place tho
jade urchin
i mean it spawns same location as the platform
swift tinsel
Or 3 globals to jump
jade urchin
just muscle memory to location always
real panther
remember the branches? đ
stray plank
Yeah but you gotta push early to prep for platform or jumps, but orb kinda wants to be pressed late
stray plank
remember the branches? đ
It's like less annoying branch
real panther
yes
stray plank
I hate catching orb mini game in general
jade urchin
transmitter is annoying in general
swift tinsel
Idk branch was way easier to me bc it was the same every time
jade urchin
i just think orb is the least annoying one
real panther
I hate catching orb mini game in general
yeah i hope they'll stop sticking on these trinket mecnics
stray plank
I just want a stat stick that I can just macro into potion button or blades or something
Give me 1:30 ashes
jade urchin
branch as dh was mad annoying
cause u had to retreat into the first one and hunt into the second one for optimal opener
or 2nd and 3rd i dont remember exactly
thorny rivet
I found love with transmitter on queen
vestal escarp
if no collect minigame
vestal escarp
it's gonna give positive main stat in odd seconds and negative mainstat in even seconds
stray plank
is there nothing good in next seasons dungeons?
we dont know raid or flood gate trinkets though right
hazy breach
Fairly sure its among the list of these https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/items/armor/trinkets/min-level:623/max-level:700/quality:4?filter=166;11;0
But theyre all goblin themed so hard to know for sure
silent ruin
Does coup de Grace correctly do 15 combo point finisher with symbols n forced induction n fazed enemy?
hazy breach
yes
alpine wraith
this may work kinda
you just need afk for some secs after 1 min kekw
but still crit is not big
likely we run the deck anyway
even if it is 2 min or ther eis also hope on this one
maybe it is a 1:30 or 3 min
stray plank
maybe this will switch to agi for rogues đ
stray plank
seems like it would be pretty good for sub tbh
alpine wraith
it would be decent
keen dome
Swap it to agi and slap a 1:30 cooldown on it
shy ermine
Thatâs not a lot of main stat for a 3min trinket
Less than transmitter with double the cd
keen dome
Yeah, 619 transmitter has 14k Agi veruss than 10k 4 ilevels higher.
stray plank
lol this one is funny
keen dome
Hell yeah
stray plank
goon squad
swift tinsel
man dungeon trinkets in general next season are ass
both 1.5min agi trinkets are just damage on-use, what a whiff
swift tinsel
gonna play Signet like its a 3min
stray plank
gross
stray plank
i wonder if transmitter just stays bis kekw
swift tinsel
they're gonna nerf tf out of it
stray plank
unlikely though, if it's good still they nerf
swift tinsel
John Blizzard does not like last season's toys coming into the next
stray plank
maybe they should consider that if an old trinket is still bis that maybe their new selection blows
swift tinsel
Lol you'd think so
Many patch notes say otherwise
is Scarizard still the itemization guy
stray plank
its like how they made the new boot enchant same as the old one for speed and instead of fixing it they just made the old one un-useable
lilac stag
maybe this will switch to agi for rogues đ
it's str only in the game files
lilac stag
you can basically open everything up in wowhead and see what the data is setup for
stray plank
i think spymasters style trinket design should become more common, it's a fit all cd design
alpine wraith
they dont like those
after the coral situation
same reason they nuke all double on use things
swift tinsel
azerokk heart and transmitter angle
stray plank
or what is they just made a trinket that activated a stat buff on <insert major cd> used
alpine wraith
yea warlocks had that
had to be nerfed like 4 times
meanwhile ours was random ass rng
as always
stray plank
lol
swift tinsel
eye of kezan?
stray plank
oh yeah we had that in aberus too with class trinket
alpine wraith
stray plank
is that what you were talking about
alpine wraith
basically better smolderon trink
alpine wraith
call to cuckering
stray plank
i kinda like the trinket personally
was kinda busted that you could stack it with an on use though
alpine wraith
i used it because i like big crits
keen dome
That's pretty nice.
stray plank
idc if its meme, just lemme pump my blade windows
lemme summon fucking rainbow unicorns on a 90 seconds cd that give me main stat for all i care
keen dome
That'd rule though
swift tinsel
lemme summon fucking rainbow unicorns on a 90 seconds cd that give me main stat ...
get this guy a dev job
stray plank
honestly BFB but agi would even be good
swift tinsel
agi bfb would be amazing
stray plank
honestly the worst part about that trinket was how awkward it was to use on casters
swift tinsel
even more so if they made flag 20 seconds
actually
idk if I like the frontloaded main stat
make it build instead of decay and its great
stray plank
front loaded main stat is a bit weird for us now with stacking finisher damage tbh
swift tinsel
stacking finisher damage, stacking flag, flawless form for trickster
swift tinsel
can't wait to lose some of that when we invariably have to play DS with 4pc
stray plank
i'll probably play other things if it becomes DS in m+, nimble flurry just makes everything feel more smooth
i like st DS but i hate the lack of ability to cleave that trickster fixes
you get to funnel too which is nice
also managing your mark in m+ sounds annoying
swift tinsel
its not as bad for sub bc you're dancing often
but still less fun than trickster imo
stray plank
oh just cuz you can move mark more than sin?
swift tinsel
Like we were talking about last night though, it'll be interesting to see how the hero trees shake out with the new tier set bc Trickster gets an extra SoD/Dance over DS, but DS will take better advantage of each window with the shadow dmg amp
yeah
stray plank
i mean im guessing DS will definitely do more in any pull where trickster starts pusing BP
im guessing this tier will reduce the target count for nimble flurry too cuz more shadow damage means bp go brrr
alpine wraith
well trickster getting more dances may be impactful
but sadly not enough to overtake HUNT THEM DOWN
and also mark dmg
and singular focus for aoe
hazy breach
i mean im guessing DS will definitely do more in any pull where trickster starts...
Depends on how long the fight is
alpine wraith
proc rate will be the clincher
swift tinsel
Yeah
alpine wraith
if it is high enough it will be fine
stray plank
Gotta love autoattack giga pump
it is sorta wild how much damage is from my autos on sin
swift tinsel
if you can stack it reasonably fast it'll be alright
alpine wraith
even if you krangle before dance if you can get like 4-7 stacks inside
alpine wraith
one funny thing is misplays will be punished heavily by rng
if you byt SOME reason send an evis outside dance in between the 2 dances on cds
and lose all stacks
GG
swift tinsel
Yep
alpine wraith
go next
swift tinsel
was saying last night you could get a zero stack sectech or 10 which is 0-60% shadow damage
on the first
obv not for opener
but later in fight
stray plank
yeah thats a big difference
swift tinsel
but if you can rectify that with a 7-10 stack for the 2nd bc it stacks fast
lessfeelsbadman
just have dance act like Shadowcraft and it grants any missing stacks up to 10
tune the 2pc % accordingly so its not insane
swift tinsel
if you byt SOME reason send an evis outside dance in between the 2 dances on cds
Just only rupture finisher between dances
alpine wraith
i mean as sub we are lucky we have this AMAZING gameplay
where we can build to full and let sht stack
then refresh rupture spend some sht to not cap then sit there again
that can cover at least 10-15 secs
or maybe more
serene notch
we are the best class/spec in the game thats why blizz left us alone in upcoming patch
vale pine
we are the best class/spec in the game thats why blizz left us alone in upcomin...
not sure i would want the same attention, like this talent from holy paladin was massively nerfed
thats a wild swing
keen dome
Gigantic, haha
serene notch
yesh..
swift tinsel
I think lightsmith only takes that sometimes
vale pine
i actually never thought i see a talent nerfed to like 12% of the original value
swift tinsel
Blizz has a vendetta against holy paladin so I'm not surprised
silent ruin
as trickster do we press black powder ?
silent ruin
even if flawless form is up with good stacks ?
swift tinsel
I'm 99% sure some holy paladin kicked the dev's dog or something bc they like to antagonize their community
vale pine
even if flawless form is up with good stacks ?
yes
serene notch
i feel like we never got back anything for shadowdust, playing around the CDR made sub so much more interesting.
vale pine
i think the current iteration is fun, it is the best case outcome
also it feels to me like blizz tries to make patches/development easier by cutting corners where possible lately
serene notch
its prob unpopular but i dont like how nimble flurry works, it makes the specs between the rouges feels to same-y for me
swift tinsel
It opens up choice to either focus on prio damage or pure aoe which would be nicer if it was more thought out
vale pine
they started to make the specs more similar in shadowlands
it is a long term effort
assassiantion for example is a lot less (classical) assassination and a lot more subtlety now
if that makes sense
serene notch
yea, i guess if thats the intent, to homogenize the specs then it is working. I just dont really like it.
swift tinsel
You're definitely not alone in that
vale pine
it is what i was mentioning, cutting corners
you can balance things easier if the diffrences between things are lower
swift tinsel
I think a lot of people disliked the aoe cycle of storm -> bp which they kinda got away from but then got right back to with the bp buffs
so nimble was a bandaid
but agreed, the corners do be gettin cut
idk its annoying bc sub's single target damage rotation outside of downtime is really fun and compelling, and the traditional storm bp cycle is the complete opposite
and pushing DS with bp/plague damage buffs just seems like trying to make the spec less fun imo
esp in aoe
Sub's my favorite spec in the game, and trickster made it even more fun but unless they have some good changes stashed for later in ptr, I don't really see myself playing it
and that sucks as a player
silent ruin
Why can't sub get aoe kidney if assa got iron wire
vale pine
because one was assumed op and the other was not
opinions matter a lot in development and can lead to decisions you would say are not logical
swift tinsel
their move away from aoe stops being more impactful than kicks/silence makes it make more sense
"more" being used loosely
just wish it didn't feel like blizz was designing a different game than people want to play
obv that's a blanket statement
but rogue didn't get any of the dev insight in their notes that any of the other classes/specs did
some of them even said "we're happy with how X spec is/isn't performing" so they know where the devs stand
we're just kinda in a void
serene notch
well if major overhauls are off the table, I would ask for better ways to apply faze. a 20 sec CD on application seems weird to me. Sin rouge has no issues apply caustic splatter at will, but I will have windows of no AOE with sub.
serene notch
do you never find yourself in a window when Sectec is down and you cannot apply faze?
uneven scarab
Yeah thats called sub rogue outside of cooldowns
where you cant do anything
But press rupture
azure mauve
Why can't sub get aoe kidney if assa got iron wire
one is definitely more op than another lol
swift tinsel
casting backstab at best once and possibly multiple times in aoe is not fun gameplay with updated trickster target counts
to try and game flawless
lilac stag
do you never find yourself in a window when Sectec is down and you cannot apply ...
This is a cooldown management and stacking spec. Highs of CDs and lows of maintenance CDR to get everything back properly. Working as intended.
very slight tweaks to storm/bp energy costs would make it feel less bad out of CDs without hopefully making it too strong that they want to lower burst dmg in cds
azure mauve
very slight tweaks to storm/bp energy costs would make it feel less bad out of C...
100%
swift tinsel
is there a world where they revert the storm energy increase bc I don't really see them doing that
unfortunately
lilac stag
there's too many moving CDR parts imo that they wont
yet assa just drowing in engery kekw
swift tinsel
lol sin energy flooded is fine but prot warrior rage flooded requries paragraph of nerfs
silent ruin
Relentless strikes at max cp should be a profit not break even
serene notch
i guess from my perspective removing a 20 CD on fazed application would allow us to retain the identity that you described above, while also smoothing out game play in terms of how AOE works, that feels really relevant on a 3 pack in between CDs. I wouldnt feel like it would make us busted either.
lilac stag
lol sin energy flooded is fine but prot warrior rage flooded requries paragraph ...
nerf fury for sniping adds and let their ST rot, while buffing DKs
swift tinsel
enh might finally be getting reigned in a lil bit with no more tempest cleaving via prim wave
uneven scarab
swift tinsel
just let me replace all of my keybdinds with black powder
and let hunt them down give combo points
uneven scarab
still a better playstyle than current ds
swift tinsel
and fatal intent has a baby giggle soundbite when it goes off
uneven scarab
swift tinsel
to go with its baby damage
lilac stag
They reworked ds
short of them deleting it and redoing everything. the theme is the theme. the mark, aint moving. it's supposed to be funnel to kill the mark. logically I don't see them doing anything that goes off the theme. two other hunter specs need another rework
swift tinsel
like the sun baby from teletubbies
uneven scarab
short of them deleting it and redoing everything. the theme is the theme. the m...
Always loved the theme
lilac stag
theme unfortunately goes against gameplay
swift tinsel
theme is cool, implementation is dumpster ass
uneven scarab
Unfortunately yeah
lilac stag
of what people want for QOL
uneven scarab
just coping for any changes bc we are 100% playing that shit with the new tier
swift tinsel
fatal intent removed or becomes Edge of Night
uneven scarab
God please
swift tinsel
hunt them down does something interesting and then does less damage to compensate
lilac stag
just coping for any changes bc we are 100% playing that shit with the new tier
outlaw tier. did you not see the tier set?
silent ruin
Idk, imma just pop lucky coin with winning streak n call it a day
lilac stag
not the nerd numbers. the real endgame transmog
lilac stag
the shoulders are shit
keen dome
Belt is cool, too
uneven scarab
I like the cape and the helmet
If only we were monks
They get to go super saiyan
lilac stag
looks like some goodwill bought druid shoulders
keen dome
Yeah, they're a bit mixed.
twilit phoenix
how much vers are you guys at?
keen dome
Sitting at around 19% unbuffed / 22% buffed. Running a mastery flask atm, so could be a tiny bit higher.
twilit phoenix
untold bone
is deathstalker better than trickster in m+ now after last patch's buff?
lilac stag
Trickster is the play for m+
swift tinsel
And everything else
lilac stag
Or DS Assa
silent ruin
Cause they get invited only to low key I guess
stray plank
enh might finally be getting reigned in a lil bit with no more tempest cleaving ...
Yeah that's kinda of wild
Doesn't it explode in an AOE?
swift tinsel
doesn't what
stray plank
Tempest
swift tinsel
Yeah it does splash damage but the main hits themselves can cleave via prim wave
so it scales
like crazy
stray plank
Yeah, bursting sores type shit
twilit phoenix
what could you drop for exhilarating execution?
if we're delve-maxxing
only thing I can think of is replicating
swift tinsel
what build
storm vault
I wish blizz could stop treating rogues likes this 
swift tinsel
replicating probs
twilit phoenix
just for some extra survivability
dry plank
You are optimists guys. It was obvious from the start of exp that with that lvl of effort putted into class design and new trees we need to wait new add on and miracle
dry plank
Prophet is still very optimistic
hazy breach
what could you drop for exhilarating execution?
The +8% healing one right next to it
swift tinsel
you nuke everything fast enough you wouldn't need both healing talents
hazy breach
The healing talent doesnt do anything
steel zinc
you nuke everything fast enough you wouldn't need both healing talents
The absorb is insanely good for prog
hazy breach
Or well sure i guess his pots
twilit phoenix
636 atm
steel zinc
same
twilit phoenix
cooking delve builds though
steel zinc
absorbs are always better then healing xyz
hazy breach
Ofc but the healing number is way higher in raids
In keys the shield is really good to avoid oneshots
But raid rarely have oneshots like that
steel zinc
But raid rarely have oneshots like that
kyveza having that extra shield is super valuable imo
swift tinsel
636 atm
at 636 you shouldn't have to worry about survivability, I was cruising through 11's at ~620
play airborne + blackjack if you really need a def though ig since tricks is kinda w/e
brann likes to rip aggro even when I'm in blades so you don't really need it
glossy turtle
Imp shuriken storm is pretty nice to have for m+ right?
glossy turtle
Yes you should always play it in m+
hah yeah I figured. I was playing the rotation like I had it. I must have changed my m+ to raid build when raiding, cause I looked and I had removed it. XD
I was playing hella clean with it, thinking I was proccing it every time, but I didnt even have it talented XD
manic island
man i like the new tierset but not sure how i feel about being pirate themed for all specs
glossy turtle
I was confused abt everything being a winning streak thing
gritty knot
they just announced they will do a hotfix today removing the timegating of the citrine gems so u can have all this current week
alpine wraith
likely will go up today as NA work hours end
alpine wraith
think it is like midday/afternoon
keen dome
Means we'll get to use fun stuff
keen dome
Hell yeah
vale pine
Nice, blizz removed the time gating from gems
gritty knot
hell yeeee
vale pine
now we can finally farm all of them and play the best setup
keen dome
They'll just be on a vendor, which is good.
Probably 50 iron per, since that's the price of the others
manic island
Nice, blizz removed the time gating from gems
just now or like next week lol
lilac stag
wait for NA hot fix beta test
manic island
time gated gems was so dumb
keen dome
The post striahgt up says "now" in it so I imagine it's coming sometime soon
I'm doing absolutely nothing useful so I'm just glaring at the vendor that'll have them.
lilac stag
I wonder if itâll go with the midweek reset time
manic island
atleast blizz listens now, but they still have to make the mistake first
keen dome
What's the uh term. Where you make a mistake that didn't need to happen
Non-something error?
lilac stag
Mistake is the term
vale pine
just now or like next week lol
soon, don't think its now now
keen dome
Yeah, but isn't there another phrase that is like.. Where you did it.. Hm.
swift tinsel
Sounds like it might be today
keen dome
I'm hoping so, I'm staring this poor turtle out.
swift tinsel
keen dome
Unforced error! That's the term I'm thinking of
lilac stag
Gems sooner than later
RS still can fuck off
apparently DH discord has a dev active again.
weâve been abandoned
manic island
im guessing its pushed on the daily reset then
manic island
wonder if i should save a bunch of the blue crates you get from the 3 rares and open them when its out
tulip gorge
so do you actually have to do the events to get them or can you buy them from the tortollan guy?
swift tinsel
depends on which ones you mean
friendly faction gems will need to be unlocked, enemy faction gems just say they can be bought
worn cape
I'm a noob đ Do embelishments get better at higher tier? Like if I recraft my runed wrists into gilded wrists. And should I upgrade crafted gear first or spend my crests on upgrading things like weapons and trinkets first?
sullen hare
embellishments do scale with item level yes. The only exceptions are when it's a nerubian piece that increases the potency of other nerubian pieces
hazy breach
embellishments do scale with item level yes. The only exceptions are when it's a...
Most do not
And the few that do scale very very poorly
Especially compared to dragonflight where it had good scaling
worn cape
So probs use my gilded crests on my daggers first
glossy turtle
I can play transmitter pretty well now in m+ and my dmg is getting good, and that was without imp shruiken strom XD. But the transmitter mechanic there has this big pad you need to stand on, how does taht work?
Cause when I step on it, doesnt give me the buff immediately
dry zodiac
You have to stand on it for 2-3 seconds
dry zodiac
Yeah the ball is instant, but sometimes more annoying since it moves. Once you get used to turning your character so it spawns where you want it none of em are that awful
glossy turtle
Yeah the ball is instant, but sometimes more annoying since it moves. Once you ...
well I like the 2 of em, the ball I dont mind at all, since I know how to get almost instantly. But when somone moves boss, it just sucks.