subtlety

[alpine wraith]

it is more than 150 because of fathomdweller

[tribal blade]

oh that's right

iirc the conversion for fathomdweller was something like 1% per 1 point of mastery

hm those numbers sound crazy, i might have misread it

[glossy turtle]

Something change abt the rings or?

[keen dome]

In the pins. But they buffed it so it goes to higher ilevel. But we don't have the good gems so it's junk right now.

[hazy breach]

Yes but 1 point of mastery is not 1% of mastery. Its 700 mastery stat

[tribal blade]

ah ok, this is my dumb non-math brain at work

[keen dome]

I love having 21% versatility and almost 80% mastry in the raid already

just so much stats

[vestal escarp]

the mastery snap is gonna be so cancer

[vale pine]

you dont need to snapshot for it to be good

[vestal escarp]

yeah agree but it surely gonna come to 2 lanes of rogs that do it and rogs that dont

[hazy breach]

Idk what youre even gonna try to snapshot

[vestal escarp]

i saw an article on wowhead

you can stack consumes and effects and equip the ring

[rough rivet]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/381413377722810370/1318670783383474186/Unbenannt.png?ex=6763d41e&is=6762829e&hm=afbd88c31cc8888d198ff907924feba46c33fea10f3e40b4103d01bc4184746b&format=webp&quality=lossless&

[hazy breach]

We have as close to as much mastery as we can

I wasnt asking how

I was asking what

[vestal escarp]

13k mast

all the more happier if it's useless for performance

[alpine wraith]

i have 16k

get on with the times

engi gear rises

[vestal escarp]

engi head and bracers?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[vestal escarp]

im stuck with raid vers head

ara mask doesnt drop from vault

[alpine wraith]

ring still kinda bad https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gwMfwKn748ynVdRVXSMwYd

it is what it is shite gems this week

[vestal escarp]

rings are bis what you on about

[alpine wraith]

i mean the ring from this patch

we have no dps blue gem so it is useless

[vestal escarp]

oh yes

ofc

[upbeat sorrel]

Do I ever use mastery flask in raid

Or just vers and chaos

[swift tinsel]

Mastery simmed highest for me for early gearing but chaos has taken over

Mythic prog is officially over at 4/8, now consume farming season is upon me

[upbeat sorrel]

Nice

I am hoping we can get CE this week and save Christmas

[lilac stag]

Typically chaos due to its interaction with pot. You can sim all the consumables to verify.

[swift tinsel]

Yeah chaos tends to sim lower if you aren't simming pot with it

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[torpid silo]

which stones do we use ?

for ring

[alpine wraith]

check pins but the good ones are still not available

so right now unless you are undergeared ring is not that good

[torpid silo]

oh x)

ty

[vestal escarp]

full 570 alt with 642 ring

[chrome palm]

Is there a big variation in terms of dps for authority of the depths? It did 35k dps for me on kyveza but 70k dps for another rogue

[alpine wraith]

yea proc rate and crits influence it

losing a 3 stack will make it go down

[chrome palm]

ty

[lilac stag]

Ready for heroic clears.

[twilit phoenix]

is evisc always our first finisher in dance?

for DM stack

[lilac stag]

Sectech if it’s up usually to get it back in CD asap

dm stack not a huge prio

[twilit phoenix]

gotchu thanks gamer

[swift tinsel]

Evisc can be first if you know you can supercharge sectech as second finisher

if sectech isn't up for first finisher

[twilit phoenix]

i just gotta play more sub to get a better feel for it

hella fun!

[swift tinsel]

there's a rhythm to it that you get used to the more you play it

its mostly just recognizing when you can send sod/dance with sectech to make sure you have 2x sod and 2x dance for each flag/blades window

[rocky axle]

Hey it looks like Sub is very good for Ansurek MM, should I try and learn to play or its not worth it ?

[swift tinsel]

are you switching from a different rogue spec or different class?

[rocky axle]

from sin

[vale pine]

pin states the best combo, #tc-research has instructions on how to sim combinations.
I did wait to update !sheet, i will do tomorrow in case blizz bugfixes/hotfixes something today.

[vale pine]

perfect for alts ^^

[void hound]

do i need to get this ring done before the raid in an hour?

[swift tinsel]

not likely

unless you're really hard up for rings

[edgy zenith]

Sin performs similarly/better than Sub on Ansurek

Sub is slightly more "helpful" for prog (blasting 3rd root set and 1st platform to carry the 2min specs)

but Sin is kinda just better

[vale pine]

ansurek is pmuch preference, you could argue all fights are

tho some of the fights benefit sin more like slug boy

[strange chasm]

At this point I have gear sets for both

[vale pine]

nice

[void hound]

not worth it

[hazy breach]

Maybe not super relevant for ansurek but the tankyness difference between sub and sin is wild

Assa: 3% more leech
Sub: 10% damage reduction from more vers, 8% more healing taken and like 10% more damage reduction thats up most of the time

[vale pine]

we are tanks

🛡️

[mystic ether]

!ring

Any of the 2 ring combinations worth using right now?

[hazy breach]

No

[mystic ether]

F

[hazy breach]

Next week when we get more it might be worth

Depends on which ones it gets

[mystic ether]

Very disappointing

[strange chasm]

Which rings does the bis profile use the island ring and what other one?

[fallow nimbus]

if the log guy is in the other group at bloodbound does akaaris soul bugs again? lost 39k dps

[alpine wraith]

there are rumours saturday we get a new batch

because the one to fill is biweekly

[alpine wraith]

yea need people logging on both sides or log yourself

in queen ansurek too

[swift tinsel]

always be loggin

[fallow nimbus]

[swift tinsel]

I just like having them to reference to see how I'm doing from pull to pull for certain metrics

also love seeing how much damage we don't take as sub lol DTPS while active is always super low and I'm vibin

[storm vault]

Gloomblade is best fr? I've been using improved shadow tech to the same gain in ST

[swift tinsel]

If you play DS in pure ST

but its not mandatory

[storm vault]

Well for me it sims equal... just i now get exhilarating on top and free aoe from the shuriken storm talent.

Also a generally smoother rotation

[steel zinc]

Good spot Rogue is in ngl. I hope it stays that way

[vale pine]

we will see once 11.1 hits ptr

[lilac stag]

It’s only in a good spot due to random buffs instead of fixing what’s actually broke. Please fix the damn talents across all three specs

[steel zinc]

yes but well bugfixing wont happen and tuning is actually easier imo

[void hound]

warcraftlogs bugged again?

i see akaaris soul as a seperate raid member

[alpine wraith]

read a bit above

[void hound]

ah thanks

[torpid silo]

is there a wekaura to see the cd on unseen blade ?

[cursive vapor]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[swift tinsel]

LE's pack has an Unseen Blade predictor

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[swift tinsel]

can click on their name on Wago and find the standalone WA

[gusty plume]

is sub still the best in m+? i havent played since legion

[swift tinsel]

Sin

[gusty plume]

dam

[swift tinsel]

but sub is still very good

Sin is also one of the highest overall dps in m+ so its not sub being bad but sin being very good

You can realistically play either up to like 15-16's before sin really takes over

[gusty plume]

u mean compared to every class?

[swift tinsel]

Yeah

Sin is very strong compared to most dps specs

[gusty plume]

even to enha?

[swift tinsel]

Nothing beats enh lol

[gusty plume]

my friend has been saying its broken

[swift tinsel]

their damage is comical

both shaman dps specs are feasting this season

[glossy turtle]

are there any rules for deathstalker? except for the mark

[swift tinsel]

Consume DN asap, consume clear the witnesses outside of SoD

[glossy turtle]

might learn it later ig. Mid raid rn XD.

[clever delta]

comeback on kyveza, i dare you jump me again 😄

[visual cairn]

Any good povs or YouTube guides to watch sub rogue in keys?

[alpine wraith]

i have some videos but i dont push keys

they are all +10

[swift tinsel]

Eleem has a few

as well

[visual cairn]

I googled the name but didn’t find a channel

[swift tinsel]

check youtube

for youtube videos

[visual cairn]

Ah Ty thought adding rogue/sub rogue after would filter results better but guess not

[swift tinsel]

Ah yeah, for some reason it bricks the search

[alpine wraith]

yea you cant tag the channel

only the videos

[keen dome]

I have finally conquered the giant slug (heroic, though)

[gritty knot]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/timegated-gem-selection-causes-cyrces-circlet-to-massively-underperform-in-week-354940#comments

as we didnt knew that already....I remember that post from Blizz where they stated that they won't repeat the mistakes they did with the onyx ring from DF again. Well they were right. They even fucked up more now 😄

[keen dome]

A new mistake.

[gritty knot]

the ring rn is equivalent to a 575 ilv ring haha. U gotta love Blizz.

[sick jackal]

how did you get 98 with 1.8m highest damage and i got a 97 with 1.850

[keen dome]

Haha, good question

[hazy breach]

The rankings dont lock in until early morning

So since they just did a new partition it can be a bit wonky

[keen dome]

We blastin'. Sub strong

[cloud rover]

Wouldnt be scrapped BFA Content if it didnt contain Timegates

amirite?

[sick jackal]

sub together stronk

[hollow spear]

Any accidental bugfixes in 11.0.7?

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[midnight hemlock]

Hello guys, i'm new to the spec Do we use Clear The Witness during Shadow Dance ?

[swift tinsel]

Nope, only when you don't have Symbols of Death or Dance

[midnight hemlock]

Nice thx

[swift tinsel]

Shadowstrike hits significantly harder so you'll stick with that

there's times where you don't consume CTW before you get a new one, that's fine

Exception would be if you're in aoe and using storm to consume the second stack of The Rotten to spread Find Weakness but that's more coincidental

[vale pine]

Shadowstrike is our strongest combo builder

i also stay with the opinion that storm needs a energy cost reduction

[swift tinsel]

Was it 30 or 40 before they increased the energy cost?

[dry plank]

guys meanwhile

do we get new coup animation and fixed charge bug? no we get new island xD

[swift tinsel]

to the surprise of no one

[dry plank]

today i accidentely charged into webs twice on queen, so exited about that ability xD

[swift tinsel]

krill issue

must be master baiters of the webs

you also have 360 degrees around the boss to attack from bc no parry

[teal prawn]

@wind canopy do I ever hold coup for dance

[wind canopy]

Pretty sure you just fire for the CDR

[teal prawn]

Nice thanks

I’ll definitely remember for when I finally get to play again Saturday

[keen dome]

Huh, the ring is only applying the iLevel boost to it when equipped (I.e., 1.8k stat uneqipped, 2.3k stat equipped). Weird.

This also means the sim is getting the wrong values. If I sim it in my bag, it's showing up as 211k damage / 1.8k stats. If I have it equipped when I pull the SimC from in-game, it's got 241k damage / 2.2 stats. Or not. It's just got the wrong values.

[leaden prairie]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[vale pine]

lol

blizzard keeps giving us the best player experience^^

[keen dome]

Yeah..

It's also scaling the gems in my bag even if I equip the ring without them in lmao

But right now, with 642 iLevel the damage proc is 244k per, and 2.2k secondary stat from the other gem. Which is decently higher than the sim has them at.

A difference of 33k damage and 400? stat

[alpine wraith]

pog killedqueen

on a shit pull for me

[keen dome]

Hell yeah, congrats!

[wet cave]

Hello all new to sub rouge what cooldowns should I be paying close attention to in order to be a good sub rouge?

[alpine wraith]

flagellation

but a one more often used would be secret tech

[wet cave]

I was thinking shadow dance or symbols of death

[alpine wraith]

those you kinda use at intervals

the finesse is from sec tech

super resumed thing but you can also have it prettier on the wowhead and other guides

[wet cave]

Are there any weak aura reccomendations for cooldown of secret technique , symbols of death, and shadow dance?

[pliant topaz]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[pliant topaz]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[pliant topaz]

i suggest reading from aobe

subs not very intuitive, its hard to pickup just by looking at cooldowbns

requires a lpt of not so obvious knowledge

[fallow nimbus]

Why is your stat gem at 2.2k mine is at 1.8k. I have 638 equipped with full vers/mast

[keen dome]

My ring is 643

[fallow nimbus]

Mine too

[keen dome]

Equip it and look at the gem in it

[fallow nimbus]

I upgraded it with gems placed inside

[fallow nimbus]

On my dh it's 2.2 too

[keen dome]

Weird

[fallow nimbus]

I check it tomorrow

[keen dome]

Whe the ring is unequipped

[fallow nimbus]

That's probably it then

[keen dome]

They're only scaling when equipped

For some very strange reason

[violet grail]

is there a certain vers/mast amount we aim to stop at for dimishing returns on sub or is it just follow the sim

[hazy breach]

Just sim

[violet grail]

[hazy breach]

Generally we cant really get that high anyway this tier

But regardless its always just a sim question, the sim takes it into account way better than you or i would

[violet grail]

yeah i gotcha

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[errant ferry]

there is nothing worse than pressing shadowstrike a little too far from boss on court and betraying your friends because it TPs you behind boss 😦

[wet cave]

How do I setup weak auras in game?

[spark tusk]

like how do you use the addon?

[wet cave]

You go to menu addons click the checkmark

[pastel rampart]

LOL

[wet cave]

Wow I am dumb

[spark tusk]

That is how you enable the addon if already installed, yes.

[wet cave]

My weak aura does not show up in addons

[spark tusk]

if you type /wa in the chat

does it bring up a window?

[wet cave]

No

Using curseforge instead of what I was using currently

[spark tusk]

I use curseforge for addon management

I'm sure youtube has some guide videos to walk through the install process to ensure you have everything done correctly and set up

[steel sierra]

Anyone's ring doing less damage compared to yesterday? Over 30 wipes yesterday on M Queen, the ring was 6th highest dmg overall. Tonight it's 14th consistently

Nothing else has changed

[wet cave]

The only addon I can get to work is raider.io

all the other addons and the weak aura were out of date which probably explains why they were not working.

[upbeat sorrel]

hello gamers does cloak work on the ring on p3 queen mythic

[hazy breach]

No

Just step over it

[upbeat sorrel]

ok ty gamer

[short radish]

it works for 5 seconds

[upbeat sorrel]

we're so close

9% last pull

christmas is gonna be saved

[short radish]

you can do it

i believe

[upbeat sorrel]

[short radish]

(are you telling your non essence carriers to go through the portal first)?

[upbeat sorrel]

im doing a essence and im supposed to step

but was just wondering if i can cloak it

[short radish]

nah cant cloak

but also for those going through the portal

non essence carriers should go through first

[strange chasm]

@hazy breach how much of an increase was it degening the first CB to your second Sec instead of first

[hazy breach]

Without using CB anywhere else it was a 0.5% gain over the standard macro

But using it inbetween the cds is tight since you need to use it pretty much exactly on cd

[strange chasm]

.5% over the course of the entire 5min patchwork?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Its not only the first

[lethal thorn]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[upbeat sorrel]

do you guys go leach or avoidance on your cloak/wrist

[tribal blade]

avoidance typically better, but they nerfed tertiary stats by quite a bit so doesn't make a big difference

cloak+wrist enchants together as avoidance is exactly 3.01%

which is so small

[short radish]

speed

[tribal blade]

we step the add that does the beam during P2 on queen correct?

[short radish]

yes but you have to step while youre still "on" the platform

since theres a fake wall

[tribal blade]

yeah that no path available bs

cool cool

[short radish]

i think that you might be able to step to friendlys though

but i havent been able to test that

[upbeat sorrel]

we got so close today\

[short radish]

base movespeed

im zooming

• another 40% whenever i dance or stealth

[upbeat sorrel]

damn thats some crazy speed

[short radish]

ima zooming

[tribal blade]

you definitely can, it's just sus because you can step into someone right next to a beam and get blasted

[short radish]

yeah

its just awkward

[tribal blade]

it's happened to me on heroic

since the wrest+beam hit like back to back

[short radish]

gotta manage steps as well

feels wack

since theres so many pulls

what i do is after being knocked over

[tribal blade]

yeah i had to make sure to stop using steps before intermission

[short radish]

sprint -> vanish ss to the guardian

[tribal blade]

ooo good idea

[short radish]

that way you can step for the next two wrests

[tribal blade]

it's awkward at that point because i'm sending transmitter there

[short radish]

yeah

thats why i send the sprint there

[tribal blade]

mm gotcha

[short radish]

since we gate the first one

[tribal blade]

i've only gotten to see P2 a few times now

[short radish]

p2 is weirdly hard

it feels like silken court prog

[tribal blade]

it does look shitty

there's a lot going on

[short radish]

yeah

i dont like it

its my least favorite part of queen

everything else is kinda comfy whatever

[tribal blade]

yeah P1 is pretty chill

[tribal blade]

man watching these top teams swap players around like pokemon cards is interesting

[short radish]

the portals?

[tribal blade]

oh no mb M+ haha

[short radish]

hahahah

[tribal blade]

i've been following a few teams and there's been a lot of player swaps happening

[short radish]

i didnt even realise that was a thing

[tribal blade]

oh that's misleading, it's not like they're trading players like football

more so players are hopping around teams

[short radish]

oh

[tribal blade]

like casual has cycled through 3-4 teams in the past month or so

[short radish]

yeah at the top end

everyone kinda knows everyone

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[short radish]

so its like oh 4 ppl are online and we need a 5th

[wind canopy]

Could also be because teams aren't playing as much?

[short radish]

see whos on

[tribal blade]

nah they are actually dropping people

[short radish]

wait really?

okay that is kinda interesting

[tribal blade]

like casual was running with kirapal's team and then either they dropped or he dropped

they also dropped ayije

maybe this is totally normal, i don't usually follow M+ teams this closely at the top end

i was tempted to ping casual and ask him what happened, but i don't want to be that guy

[dry plank]

People and their relationships. Reality shows

[tribal blade]

it kinda IS like a reality show on wow

i've become a gossipy housewife

[formal flame]

hello, what main and off hand enchants i shall use? Faqs say different things

[tribal blade]

radiant power is better for aoe, depths is better for pure ST

some people mix and match those 2

i just run x2 radiant power everywhere, but if you mostly raid depths would prob be better

[keen dome]

Radiant power for maximum lazy. That's the way

[tribal blade]

i guess maximum lazy would be 1 depths 1 radiant power 😉

[keen dome]

Oooh, true

Damn, I'm not maximum lazy. Shameful

[tribal blade]

hm actually seems like depths is just a small dps increase over radiant power in pure ST, 0.1% for me

you lose more relatively using depths in M+

[keen dome]

Pure stat go brrr after all.

[tribal blade]

it's rng, but yeah getting main stat in cds beeg

[keen dome]

Ye

Consistency versus gamble

[vale pine]

we don't talk about outlaw in here

[keen dome]

I'm currently torn between getting a 636 LW helm or a 636 Eng helm done. Eng helm is better (0.6%) but the difference is very minimal (0.2% between them). But I'm going to be losing a ton of crit sooner than later when I swap to the ring (which I can't properly sim yet). So I'm thinking LW helm in case I need to recraft stats...

I'm sad the tinkers are so rubbish this expansion. Not a single fun one 😦

[vale pine]

Crafting in general is meh, and the effects iirc lack item level scaling

[keen dome]

Yeah

I think the LW is the smarter choice if only because I can swap it to crit/mast if I end up lacking too much Crit or something. Whereas the singular Eng stat is more fiddly.

[fallow nimbus]

Craft both

[keen dome]

A thought I had too, haha

Since I have nothing left to craft after it's done and nothing to spend crests on until reset.

[fallow nimbus]

I have no loot left every week is socket week now

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[fallow nimbus]

Maybe a normal crafted helmet

Got normal and engi bracers + engi helmet

[keen dome]

I just need Myth gloves (to make tier), and a secondary trinket and I'm fully done on gear. I'm never getting a Mythic transmitter, so Heroic is the goal.

[vale pine]

you got to farm the new lovely ring tho

[fallow nimbus]

[keen dome]

I wish we could farm the new ring.

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah

[vale pine]

i haven't had time yesterday to do the questline

[keen dome]

I don't mind them making the ilevel weekly. I think that's fine. But the gems themselves is such a surreal choice.

[vale pine]

how long does it take, an hour or longer?

[keen dome]

30 minutes, tops

Less, probably.

[vale pine]

oh thats quick

[keen dome]

And the weekly for the ilevel takes about 10 minutes. It's very good and I think how quick it is to get is worth complimenting.

But the problem is the gems are just.. (so far, it seems) weekly locked. So we can't get the fun ones this week.

So what's the point. But it also raises a question about what if you miss this week.

Do you just not get these 4 gems? Why is it like this.

[fallow nimbus]

What was the weekly? The storm thing?

[keen dome]

Yeah but that didn't give anything worthwhile for the ring.

1. iLevel+ item from a weekly quest to open 3 hidden chests
2. Gem from Excavation 1
3. Gem from Excavation 2
4. Gem from the meta 'WQ' of just killing vrykul on the island

[fallow nimbus]

Annoying was that some quest extra action button blocked another quest button

[keen dome]

And the final gem is from the intro questline for the ring (Thunderlord)

I imagine it'll be worth using next week, assuming we can even sim it..

Can't get accurate numbers on it right now as the sim has the wrong numbers for what it actually is 😦

And I'm too stupid to figure out how to write my own version to test it

[plush violet]

Hi a question regarding queen, would you hold your 3rd set of cds and destroy first platform add ? (also delaying your 2nd set after blades) or don't delay and send 2nd set during web blades and might have it at last pull in on intermission ?

[tribal blade]

depends where you need the damage

a lot of sub rogues end up holding cds for 1st platform add because that tends to be a gap in where most people have damage

[upbeat sorrel]

i just send everything 1st platform, it comes back up for when p3 starts

seems to be most optimal timing

if you send 2nd platform wont have it up for when p3 starts

damage shouldnt be a problem on platforms with everyone alive

[plush roost]

My raid comp has so much damage on platform 1 idk how to parse this fight

I've given up and just gone full boss damage

Maybe just play sin idk

The adds die after my first shadow dance -_-

And im a platform 2 portal person, so sending cds there is also pretty cursed

One time we killed the expeller so quick I couldn't even shadowstep to it like i normally would on the wrest

So i had to panic target an ally lmfao

[winter python]

That's why I always used a macro to step our DK tank

[tribal blade]

yeah the "problem" with us scaling with a raid buff

[plush roost]

Yeah i have a mouseover macro

Yeah its pretty cursed i legit think I'd have more relevant use playing outlaw or sin

Like we're done the tier, but my logs need to look pretty

Tbh maybe i just ask to do an earlier portal or no portal and just use cds on platform 2 so i can get full value

Fight usually ends before my 6th set of cds anyway

[vale pine]

"guys, stop doing damage, i need to parse"

[plush roost]

Haha good luck with that one

[vale pine]

did work 0% of the times i tried it ^^

great success rate

[keen dome]

Need to be more aggresive about it.

Swapblaster the top DPS off the platform.

[plush roost]

Haha my healer did that to me today

My default response is to jump and move after a wipe

They've found a weakness in my habits, a prime swapblaster target

[keen dome]

hahaha

[lilac stag]

Neural Silencer still works no?

[keen dome]

Yeah, thankfully. They did a good job of improving that thing

[tribal blade]

https://www.twitch.tv/gromnak/clip/PoisedSuccessfulHummingbirdGOWSkull-Ggu9YP0MptxXi2xP

[short radish]

https://www.twitch.tv/gromnak/clip/AntediluvianPeacefulPanKappaPride-19uwjVXRBzBSAHtJ

[tribal blade]

oh my god did we natty post back to back gromnak clips

[short radish]

wait

i wasnt meant to reply to that

[vale pine]

haha gromnak clips are so good

[tribal blade]

i love them so much haha

[tribal blade]

omfg i'm dying laughing right now

[short radish]

i was meant to reply

use cds 1st platform p2 because no other good point to use. your raid also might need to hold damage a bit on platform 3 for you (and mainly the warriors) so their yours and their cooldowns are up for p3

[tribal blade]

how are his death clips always this good

[short radish]

ikr

peak comedy

[tribal blade]

he has an entire series on kazzara

incredible

[glossy turtle]

For raid its all deathstalker? And for m+ its trickster?

[lilac stag]

DS is ST, maybe Ovi

[glossy turtle]

But ds is used on ulgrax

Raided yesterday and was checking wacraft logs to see what ppl built, we only did first 4, but still only saw trickster

[vale pine]

just play trickster everywhere

[lilac stag]

1. There are very few logs for sub. rng and what mechanics you get will matter.

2. The choices sim closely

3. It really doesn’t matter. DS sucks to play. Trickster is better overall for your Menty

[glossy turtle]

I do that as well, even though ghe logs showed ds. Just rly didnt wanna start learning ds, i am already trying to learn how to incorperate transmitter into my gameplay.

[vale pine]

Deathstalker is technically better on pure single target, so you can absolutely play it

but as scath mentioned, it is gameplay wise less engaging and numbers are close enough to ignore the small diffrence

[glossy turtle]

Okay nice, i like trickster more tbh

[lilac stag]

run with it then. Enjoyment matters

[haughty mural]

the guy above me is right

[rocky ocean]

Trickster does a little of tomfoolery

[glossy turtle]

I do haha, and i have that mindset always. But havent played trickster and it just seemed like it was used by everone

[rocky ocean]

You can cloud smoke a void zone every 1:30 minutes

[tribal blade]

i've been trying to make DS work in raid on ST bosses, but every time i use it i want to claw my eyes out

i think honestly next reclear i'm playing trickster on everything

[haughty mural]

good choice

[lilac stag]

Like we chatted on princess. I just enjoy it more and feel like I can sneak the burst in before the dreaded first mechanic goes out. Haha

the downside is RS

[tribal blade]

can just use imp sht instead 😉

trickster unironically gains a bit of ground on DS with the new ring maybe?

because fazed target will be taking 5% more ring damage

[keen dome]

That's a good thought on it, yeah

[tribal blade]

i assume it would work that way

[hazy breach]

It does not

[tribal blade]

damn

[hazy breach]

Fazed only works on rogue stuff (but not on nimble )

[haughty mural]

[tribal blade]

WONDERFUL

I'M SO HAPPY

[haughty mural]

class fantasy

[tribal blade]

CAN YOU SEE MY SMILING THROUGH MY TEARS

another thought is PE might make a comeback

?

[alpine wraith]

yea it will be stronger

thx to ring

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[tulip gorge]

what is PE?

[keen dome]

The standard sub experience: Does X work with Y?

"no"

[tribal blade]

it's kinda rough picking it up though

[keen dome]

Planned execution, I think

the crit during dance node

Sorry, during symbols

[tulip gorge]

that would also mean crit in general gets more value?

[tribal blade]

it would for sure, but mastery and vers will still be very high value over it since mast will be working on the ring too

[tulip gorge]

I still don't get why Symbols giving haste is a talent

[tribal blade]

as @vale pine said when they made it

it's called "warning signs" as a warning to stay away

[keen dome]

They should make haste give movespeed. I will not put any more thought into this idea than that.

[tribal blade]

imagine if haste increased our gcds during dance

[keen dome]

Hahaha

Now we're the pirates

[tulip gorge]

I assume haste just gives you more Shadow Techniques procs?

[tribal blade]

only dance so we feel even more starved outside cds

[tribal blade]

yes and more energy

[vale pine]

haha, and its not even that bad

[haughty mural]

how dis?

[tepid trellis]

more stats is never really bad

[tribal blade]

i made good use out of it during remix when i had 100% crit 😉

[tulip gorge]

ok but isn't haste mostly useless for sub?

I have so many priests using PI on me when I play sub

[keen dome]

As I understand it, it's pretty whatever but the other stats just give us more useful things?

[tribal blade]

fathomdweller gem increases mastery AND increases damage of gems based on your mastery

[tepid trellis]

more autos. more energy more cps

[haughty mural]

the second one kinda really odd
but i guess we'll take it

[tribal blade]

i think it's actually really cool

great idea

[keen dome]

Same

[tribal blade]

we're lucky it's mastery and not haste

we got so lucky

[haughty mural]

sure

[tribal blade]

because usually blizz will lean on haste for this kind of stuff

historically

[haughty mural]

but atleast from the wording of our mastery you'd not think about that

[keen dome]

We should revisit this in 11.1 when we end up still using the ring six months from now or something comical.

[alpine wraith]

they said they want ring to be replaced vs a mythic one

next raid

lets see

[tribal blade]

iirc it's equivalent ilvl to heroic from next tier

[tulip gorge]

they'll probably nerf the ring if it's absolute bis for next patch

[keen dome]

I'm fully expecting a repeat of the Annulet where it's really good for very specific classes for longer than they expected and then they need to nerf it.

[tribal blade]

it won't be bis next tier, myth track rings will outscale it for sure

that's their plan anyways

[keen dome]

I just wish I could start using it

[tulip gorge]

how many gems are there in total?

[keen dome]

12, I think.

[tribal blade]

only 4 we care about currently

[keen dome]

And we only have 1 of those right now, right

[alpine wraith]

yea

the thunder one

[keen dome]

still holding out hope for midweek reset giving us another load.

[tulip gorge]

so assuming they timegate 4 gems per week, we still have to wait 2 weeks at least

absolute disgusting behaviour

[keen dome]

It's very strange.

And also the way the ring behaves with how it scales only when equipped too

[tulip gorge]

they're back to their timegating habits from shadowlands

when the game was at its lowest

[tribal blade]

yeah me and a guildie figured that out earlier

i got confused with the tooltip of the damage

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's super weird. And makes simming it impossible right now I think?

[tribal blade]

i'm not sure because in the sims it shows the gem in fully upgraded ring as base damage

so i have no idea what the sim is doing

[keen dome]

When I looked earlier, it was giving me the values for the base unequipped version (I.e., 1.8k secondary and 411k damage)

And not the actual values

[tribal blade]

BUT when i simmed it in a fully upgraded ring it was a dps increase

[keen dome]

Neat

[tribal blade]

and in the current ilvl it's dps downgrade

so must be working properly

[keen dome]

Come on midweek reset and four more gems.

[tribal blade]

pray!

[keen dome]

I wish they'd detail how it's meant to work though.

Weekly iLevel is fine, it's whatever. But the gems is just frustrating for no reason.

And limits the enjoyment of playing around with it.

[tribal blade]

it's also this weird thing where you get punished based on what gems are good for your spec

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

so people who use the gems that are released early get to use it faster

[keen dome]

And, if they are on a rotation. It means you could miss the good ones and have to wait which is.. absurd

[tribal blade]

there might possibly be catch up

i would assume so, because it would be insane if there wasn't

[keen dome]

It's possible they simply remain active forever and you can earn them all, yeah.

[tribal blade]

mine did bug out where i wasn't awarded the last gem from the final storm event

[tulip gorge]

is there any spec that is actually going to use the ring this week?

[tribal blade]

but i went to the vendor and was able to purchase it with 50 of the currency

(thank god didn't need to talk to blizz)

[keen dome]

I imagine yes, but wholly because of iLevel and not spec.

[tribal blade]

healers probably

[tulip gorge]

ok but I mean in a bis gear scenario

[tribal blade]

since it's a mix of everything they can use

[keen dome]

Oh in a BiS scenario I bet the answer is a resounding no.

[tribal blade]

well anyone who isn't doing high level content for sure

will use it

even with a healing gem in it it'll be a big upgrade over a champ/hero track ring

[keen dome]

I've got buddies I occasionally raid with who are still 615ish and it's a pretty good upgrade for them.

[tribal blade]

oh yeah huge

i don't think the heal is even bad if you're at low ilvl haha

because you're getting railed from not having gear

[keen dome]

The guild I'm in is still chasing AotC and it's going to make that, even as it is right now, massively easier simply because everyone is gonna be doing 242k on a proc a lot during the fight

[tribal blade]

yeah afk damage is really good for

uh

i hate to say it, less skilled players

[keen dome]

Yeah. Casual or less skilled players or players who get overwhelmed, etc.

It's just straight up free dam

[tribal blade]

if you're chasing aotc right now the heal will also unironically be really good

[keen dome]

Absolutely

Healing is being carried by one extremely stressed out priest haha

[tribal blade]

i checked how much that heal did while i was running around the isle and it was almost my top healing done

[keen dome]

Huh, not bad

[tribal blade]

yeah your entire raid team gaining a bunch of extra healing (which hits 2 extra people too) will take a big load off healers

[keen dome]

That's real good, yeah

[tribal blade]

look at us coping so well over them not releasing all the gems

[keen dome]

I'm coping by fishing on the isle

that's what they've done to me.

[tribal blade]

oh god that's terrible 😦

[keen dome]

Just got the rune, so fishing complete for another expansion

[plush roost]

It heals a lot

7 people with the ring in this alt raid

Quite a bit more healing from the whole squad

[keen dome]

Damn

[plush roost]

What i really wanna know, is if some 4 dps strats can develop in keys

Just like Onyx annulet

[tribal blade]

if the key level isn't too high yeah probably

[worn cape]

I had a 606 ring and this ring def seems to be better luckily

[alpine wraith]

yea it is quite good vs low rings

[analog grove]

!fuu

[twilit phoenix]

That priest needs a cigarette

!transmitter

F

[tribal blade]

almost 40 ilvls worth of a ring pretty good 😉

[alpine wraith]

upgrade the lockbox

[worn cape]

Yeah, very happy with it

[twilit phoenix]

damn, no myth track lockbox

unlucky

[spark tusk]

[keen dome]

It's blue quality too so it has an ilevel lmao

[vestal escarp]

I re-did mists and dawn after timing them as sub

As sin

They kinda felt better

[twilit phoenix]

sub or sin felt better?

[vestal escarp]

Sin, the second time around

[twilit phoenix]

ah, interesting

i actually like sub for mists more

[vestal escarp]

Despite DB bosses being atrocious as sin

[twilit phoenix]

especially for first boss

[vestal escarp]

But in the emd

[haughty mural]

DB 2nd boss is crazy good for sin no ?

with the adds

[vestal escarp]

The weak boss dmg for sin is not as impactful as the overall you gain

[vestal escarp]

Depends, if one cast is on you you burn one vanish for that, hence no adds to spread stuff and pad on

Also if you dont clear the plaza right before wich current routes dont do anymore

You can rup only one webbed guy

Because the other is too close to a patrol

So you have just 2 ruptures up for like only half fight

[haughty mural]

okay, you got a point

[vestal escarp]

Also on rash you cant send DM as sin but you can send flag as sub

[haughty mural]

been a minute since i last played sin there

[vestal escarp]

And in the end it's more padded dmg but still looks good

So rn im pondring which spec to send on the 16 for both

[haughty mural]

i am biased

[vestal escarp]

First option for me is sub too,for example in mists im too confident up to mistcaller

After that it kinda falls behind

[twilit phoenix]

DM isn't back up by the time you hit the ground?

[vestal escarp]

No if you play correctly, 6 bombs spawn in about 1 min

Not solid on it tho, bacause it also depends on if other guys send shit

If you're well fast dm is back too laste into lust when you're down

[vale pine]

everyone playing subtlety is based

[haughty mural]

[vestal escarp]

[twilit phoenix]

[remote shuttle]

Yeeee sub friends! One more of us above 3k!!! Timed my 4th 13 yesterday and got 3004.io

I'm 1st sub of my server and 3d rogue 🎂😉🎉

[keen dome]

Hell yeah!

[remote shuttle]

Ty bro 😉👌

[worn cape]

Congrats! How was it? Is it very hard for sub to do?

[remote shuttle]

@leaden prairie u removed cp back sound on ur wa? May i ask if reason is it cause a delay on cp refund?

[keen dome]

@alpine wraith it won't let me upgrade the lockbox

[remote shuttle]

Man... Was impossible to time a 10+ until patch .5
Then was a long road to be picked in decent group to time 12s.... Best grps wanted assa onl...

So had to time my 12s with most people in grp having done max 10s/11s

So was a pain... But as soon as i was like 2950 went better... Better ppl and better tanks=better routes (must have for decent sub dps)

[leaden prairie]

i didnt

[remote shuttle]

So is better now tryin timing 13s than couple weeks ago tryin 12s

[strange chasm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[leaden prairie]

try looking on what sound channel its playing

maybe you have that sound channel off

its in condition, follow the sounds icons

[remote shuttle]

There waa no sound selected at all

Naaa channel waa fine, just no sound was selected, but i noticed like cp back is lot smoother w/o sound (may be hw related, idk)

[leaden prairie]

ah

thats cause i use a custom sound sorry

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[remote shuttle]

After yesterday wa update

[leaden prairie]

i mean idk why it would change now tho

i think i have always used a custom sound in my wa pack

[remote shuttle]

Aaah maybe i fixed sound when installed wa first time (i used bite from wa sounds) and forgot to have changed it...

Btw in my pc removing sound on that is a lot better (mean instant cp back wo any 0.0?s delay

[leaden prairie]

the sound shouldnt impact that

sub is bugged tho

on the refund cp thing

it can be delayed a lot

when you play the aoe rupture talent

[hazy breach]

Its gonna get fixed soon sure right

Its only been a thing for over a year

[alpine wraith]

wow sound channels can still get overloaded btw

it is year 2024

[hazy breach]

Just like the mark bug with deathstalker celebrating 3 months

[alpine wraith]

still no 64 bit+ infra

[vale pine]

21th december

1 year bug anniversary in 2 days

[leaden prairie]

That bug is the worse rogue bug to me

With the stealth during subt not allowed for outlaw

Both bugs are so disruptive and should have been fixed

Day one

Unlucky no devs

[alpine wraith]

there are devs but they are whipped and only can work on things in a per priority basis

likely rogue bug is prio low

in their head

meanwhile

us every time RS bug happens

[hazy breach]

Theres also the new sht related bug for this season, where it almost always fails to refund cp at the end of your first dance before you symbols again

[alpine wraith]

AAAAAAAaaAAAaAaaaaaAaaaaaaaaaaaaA

[vale pine]

the sht bug seems similar

[alpine wraith]

first gcd in dance cant proc craft yea

or just after using Symbols

for some reason

[vale pine]

i don't think its low priority, but it is difficult to fix and as such probably shelved.

[hazy breach]

It can if youve just used symbols

But not if its at the end of symbols for some reason

But its consistent atleast so its not as annoying

Still feels odd to eviscerate at 10 sht and not get a refund, then you symbols next gcd and get back to back refunds

[alpine wraith]

yea it is funny getting 2 or 3 craft procs afterwards

maybe they did a study and this one makes people subscribe for longer

[leaden prairie]

btw

why is it that

90% of the times i vanish

it just insta break

i think its cause i vanish after a finisher or smth idk

[hazy breach]

[leaden prairie]

its not only me right

[hazy breach]

I wouldnt say it happens that often to me, but its fairly often ye

[leaden prairie]

i know how to not make it happen but

like if i just wait for gcd to be ready to vanish strike insrta

it always works

but idk

if i just vanish randomly it always fail gg

shit spec no cap

[hazy breach]

not worth fixing awfully feeling bugs because nobody plays the spec
nobody plays the spec because of awfully feeling bugs
Repeat

[leaden prairie]

crazy thing is

i think sub is peaking rn

trickster

better than every iteration ive played since sl at least

same as outlaw

yet they are the most broken iterations in term of bugs

that i have known at least

dont start talking to me abotu some random icc rogue tier

[lilac stag]

Just buff BP another 35%. Truely peaking then.

[leaden prairie]

i disagree

i like how sub trickster rn does a good bit of dispatches

among bps

its not just bps

[lilac stag]

It was a joke

[hazy breach]

So does deathstalker, but it feels way worse

[lilac stag]

Too early

[leaden prairie]

ds is trash design anyway

[lilac stag]

My bad

[hazy breach]

Nimble should just work with blades and fazed

[leaden prairie]

i hate ds

cal mdown then eleem

[lilac stag]

Rs needs to be fixed or deleted

[leaden prairie]

you know what needs to get deleted

that tornado shit talent

[lilac stag]

that needs a redesign

[hazy breach]

I much prefer either always BP or always evis

Rather than weaving them inbetween each others

[lilac stag]

Like 1/3 of the tree

[leaden prairie]

Really?

I find sub much more interesting now

That it was in df

[hazy breach]

Think the cooldown timings of the spec is complex enough

[leaden prairie]

Having to weave a few dispatches

And build with SS and SS

Is cool

[leaden prairie]

Ok but

I need micro rotation to also be interesting

You can't just have the cd part of the spec

Otherwise there isn't enough idk

[lilac stag]

The out of cd part needs nothing to be interesting

[hazy breach]

Idk i dont feel like them changing the BP target count every month leads to satsifying gameplay

[lilac stag]

Just not a 3 sec between ability play

[hazy breach]

I enjoyed sub more in keys before the bp buffs because the rotten storm thing just feels ass

Cus it also means you often miss coup in dance because you didnt have enough strikes

[lilac stag]

idk if it would feel better if you could actually storm first

But it’s disjointed

Just to press more buttons

[digital aspen]

do you press storm as first generator in dance before sectec?

[lilac stag]

No

[hazy breach]

No

[digital aspen]

hmm

[lilac stag]

Second

[hazy breach]

Because storm consumes both rotten charges if you use it first

(a bug)

[lilac stag]

It eats both rotten charges

[digital aspen]

oooh right

lovely

assuming it didnt

would we do that

[hazy breach]

Yes

[digital aspen]

to have all targets with FW

[hazy breach]

Or well, it wouldnt matter much which one you did, but always first is easier to remember

[digital aspen]

and nimble flurry hits cant proc FW right?

[hazy breach]

Sectech is mostly shadow damage anyway

[digital aspen]

alright makes sense

when s the next key video coming eleem

as sub ofc

[hazy breach]

Not sure, had a couple of keys that went like +20s over timer so i felt bad for playing sub

[lilac stag]

That’s the video right there

Sub talent tree is a key 20 seconds over

[hazy breach]

So ive been mostly playing assa since its with friends

[leaden prairie]

Idk it's like, I think sub is peak if you do one of each in dance

Coup does that a bit it's nice

And with st

Also break up the rota a bit

I like

And I like doing a SS in dance before ssing

[hazy breach]

Idk i think its just too much to have one bp, one evis, one coup, one sectech, one strike and one storm

It doesnt really add much fun but a lot of complexity imo

[dry yarrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[still trellis]

so i have this sectec macro and if i press it in the new zone it doesnt cast cold blood (says spell not learned). Is it possible its looking for some bfa cold blood thingy since im technically in a bfa zone?

even tried unspeccing cold blood and respeccing into it

[spark tusk]

Entirely possible

[still trellis]

just wanted to see if anyone else had this issue, because this is the macro i used the whole season

[spark tusk]

Spell IDs can change with zone, like with shadowlands abilities

So it's possible something got borked with the fact that Cold Blood has multiple versions now

with fatebound

something weird with those getting mixed and not accounted for by the new zone

a weird problem to have but I can see it

[still trellis]

sounds logical

[lilac stag]

Do you play assa fate?

[still trellis]

nah

why?

[lilac stag]

That bugs out CB for sub

[still trellis]

aight lemme check if i was for some reason specced fate

nope specced deathstalker

had to relog, now the macro works weird

[hazy breach]

If youve ever specced fatebound assa during your play session you have to relogg for CB macros to work as sub

Or well, fatebound outlaw probably as well, just the fatebound cb talent screws it

[still trellis]

well i did spec it to save it in case i wanna try it

but i didnt even activate anything

[warm marlin]

CB talent on outlaw

[hazy breach]

Well ye

[vale pine]

CB isn't even that good on subtlety

[edgy zenith]

yeah bro just crit

little off topic, but are we just macroing orc racial to Flag?

or better to send at a different timing?

also also, I saw on a log that one of my sectechs last night during ansurek prog got evaded, wtf does that mean? does that mean target died and clones didn't go off on it, or?

[twilit phoenix]

might need to reforge some stats to expertise

is there a target count at which it's better to shuriken over backstab?

assuming nimble is up

[vale pine]

mop classic is not that far away

[digital aspen]

expertise stayed for too long in this game

[lilac stag]

First Sectech in flag

Then hold till 3m

[keen dome]

The two-set bonuses will be unique per role while the four-set bonuses will cater to a specific specialization, lending themselves a little something special to everyone. Huh, that's interesting.

Curious to see why the 2p in the new tier is a generic role one.

Oh, they put out a thing showing it. That's cool.

[fallow nimbus]

Less work overall

[keen dome]

They still seem pretty tailored, though.

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/blog/images/46256.jpg?maxWidth=800

Like, the tank one is calling a specific Warrior ability, rather than a generic buff.

[fallow nimbus]

Yeah but that's tank and heal

[swift tinsel]

I'm sure it'll be a tank defensive across the board

Meta, Ardent Defender/GoaK, etc

[keen dome]

I'm sure, but it's not just a generic buff is what I'm saying. So it's still tailored, which is neat.

[fallow nimbus]

A pure dps class like mage and rogue probably has 1 for all 3

[keen dome]

Maybe, yeah. Be curious to see.

[swift tinsel]

if its role specific I'd imagine its all the same one

[keen dome]

Could be really fun if it's Symbols or something for Sub

[fallow nimbus]

1 dps 2set for all classes is even less work

[worn cape]

Is that what the tank set looks like as well?

[keen dome]

That's the Warrior set

I think them taking this approach could be pretty interesting though.

[worn cape]

Oh so we do still get a different look for each class? Still I had hoped for something more goblin-y

[keen dome]

I assume it's going to be a unique visual for each class, yeah.

Warrior looks like a battlemech style thing.

[swift tinsel]

someone better get a G.M.O.D. tier set

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[fallow nimbus]

#transmog has a picture of possible rogue set

[keen dome]

oooh yeah

Good catch

Rad hat.

[fallow nimbus]

The outlaws won

[keen dome]

Big fan of the skull mask. Very swashbuckler

[worn cape]

Outlaw is eating well

[keen dome]

Super curious on what colour is from where - red is typically the pvp conq variant.

But it's very early so I shall needlessly speculate.

[vale pine]

sounds weird

basically 2p will be about equally good for everyone

[glossy turtle]

how is void elf with the buff they got?

for raid content and m+

[keen dome]

yeah, I'm curious what they tie it too for us

Probably Evis/Dispatch/Envenom

[vale pine]

secret

[keen dome]

Haha

[past herald]

Trying out outlaw a bit and just want to check something. I assume it's more important to refresh Blade flurry over spending your CPS to not waste the CPs you get from pressing it? Or should I spend them before I press it even if the buff is not up?

[pastel rampart]

probably ask in outlaw chat

[swift tinsel]

Sectech makes Fazed stack twice

[past herald]

Sorry, was in the wrong chat 🙂

[vale pine]

secret techniques now summons n'zoth who fights alongside you

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[swift tinsel]

and casts Twilight Devastation at a random target in the instance

[keen dome]

SecTec summons a goblin outlaw who simply shoots the enemy for you

[swift tinsel]

preferring those not already in combat

[vale pine]

it all makes sense now^^

[keen dome]

just full on indiana jones scene it.

[swift tinsel]

"Replicating Shadows now causes your combo points to delay refunding by an additional 1 second"

[keen dome]

Hahaha

[swift tinsel]

"A goblin literally comes and steals them off your combo point bar"

huehuehuehue

Wouldn't be surprised if the dps role 2pc is just a generic dot that has a ppm proc for the 4pc

[pastel rampart]

casting shadow dance summons 3 goblin shadow dancers who give all tips to you after 10 sec

[keen dome]

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised either. Probably tied to your main 'damage' ability.

[swift tinsel]

Kinda hope its not something like "dot ticks reduce Dance/SoD by x seconds"

[lethal gale]

4-set: Using Sectec casts an additional sectec at 100% effectiveness

imagine the burst

[keen dome]

Double SecTec Dream

[lilac stag]

4pc roll the shadow dice for a 200% Sectech crit or -4000 mastery debuff

Goblin engineering

[keen dome]

Haha

4PC: "You have a 90% chance to spawn an extra shadow clone on Secret Technique that throws a hand grenade. There is a 10% chance the clone drops the hand grenade. This ability has friendly fire."

[uneven scarab]

The 4pc should just have a chance to close the game

[charred kestrel]

“Casting Secret Technique now spawns 4 copies of yourself. Collecting a copy increases your shadow damage done for 3 seconds, extending for each copy collected.”

[ornate current]

anyone got a funny sub rogue chinese copy pasta ?

[left ledge]

Casting eviscerate now buffs your next black powder by 5000%

Now forcing your rotation to be more dogshit

[tepid trellis]

4p you now have a buff called sophic devotion which is a random proc

[left ledge]

NOOOOO

[keen dome]

Hahahaa

[left ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/it-will-be-the-end-gif-11666510579469969166

[keen dome]

A 4p that just makes you go super sayain (but made of shadowy so it's cool) would be funny

[wind canopy]

Having the 2 pc kinda be the same kinda makes it easier balancing wise, yeah? Though, makes it seem a lot less interesting...

[keen dome]

It should be, although I guess it'll depend heavily on what they tie it to per class.

[left ledge]

I wonder if we will get an actually creative tier set

[keen dome]

But I'm hopeful about it. I think it might work better as a design approach, depending on how the 4P interacts with it.

[left ledge]

This should open up creativity more

So if we get another bland ass passive 4p like

[uneven scarab]

Ill keep telling myself that

[left ledge]

“Symbols of death extends shadow dance by 2 seconds”

I don’t care if it allows me to flick my nipple for an extra evis cast

[keen dome]

Yeah. Simple 2P that does something easy to balance for everyone. And then 4P being more interesting in how it interacts with the 2P mechanic, on a spec level.

[left ledge]

That shit is boring

I want to summon shadow spectres that zed ult in on that mfer and I want a FAT JUICY EXECUTE

Give sectec execute damage

[keen dome]

Maybe the 4P will just be "We gave SecTec the void contract animation: Are you happy now?!"

[steel horizon]

How come there are not more people playing DS on Queen? The single target gain in p1 not worth it?

Its still 95/5 after the last round of DS buffs

[strange chasm]

No

Trickster is just more fun

And slightly worse

[lilac stag]

DS is dogshit

[sick jackal]

red team is hard

[worn cape]

87 is still nice 😄

[sick jackal]

there is 71 parses apperently

but i got r87

we win those

[mint swift]

I hope sub gets some cool tierset bonus
Like one that actually changes it’s rota

[sick jackal]

oh there is 103 sub rogues that killed

[steel horizon]

87 out of 103

[left ledge]

As someone who’s played both, trickster is just better in everything past p1

Deathstalker sucks at killing the essence spiders

[steel horizon]

yea thats what i was thinking. ds probably better in p1 but falls off later.

i guess im staying trickster

[twilit phoenix]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[twilit phoenix]

what's the issue with macroing SOD and Dance?

[thorny rivet]

Delete DS from game

[twilit phoenix]

i'd still keep a separate SOD bind, but would it be trolling to just have it macrod into dance?

[mint swift]

DS is fun what you mean

[lilac stag]

Yes. Just learn to have them seperate.

[mint swift]

….

On assassination

[lilac stag]

They aren’t paired all the time exactly the same time.

DS is piss. Delete it.

[mint swift]

But it’s fun for assassinationnnnnnn

[lilac stag]

What channel are you in?

[mint swift]

Sub
But
I’m usually in assassination :3

[twilit phoenix]

is there ever a situation where I send dance without SOD?