For m+
#subtlety
vale pine
atrophic/mind numbing, tricks, shroud and single target cc
plush roost
Also aoe blind
swift tinsel
also a bit niche but distract tech can be very useful
plush roost
Certainly has its moment
lilac stag
4 hours later still on utility 
remote shuttle
Distract is op in CoT, we regulate patrols' traffic as stoplights
Man... I love cot... Better m+ for FirstDance
elfin hound
is bugged or something on queen p2 platforms, that you only can shadowstep when you're still on the platform? like i was in the air off platform in line of sight and couldnt step
elfin hound
vale pine
it isn't a bug, they changed step to function this way in Legion/BfA
vale pine
If you jump of a platform you can step back
they introduced the conditions because of ghuun where you would use shadowstep to cheese the running phase.
Funnily enough they only did so on rogue, which just lead to people doing it on other classes who where not changed.
Things like this are common in wow game development.
fossil dove
Man... I love cot... Better m+ for FirstDance
I love COT too and its impossible to find a group for it
Nobody in my guild will run it they all hate it
tanks refuse
healers refuse
damage dealers refuse
vale pine
this seasons dungeon pool isn't that good tbh
lilac stag
You don’t need to be on the same plane. Last boss of dawn breaker you’re below the platform and as long as you can see the boss you can step up and over the platform
fossil dove
this seasons dungeon pool isn't that good tbh
I agree
I dont mind dawnbringer
mists I hate
tbh they all sucks
I was about to make a case from grim batol but fuck every dungeon
I have 7 hours to learn sub for my BTM group tonight
I should have procrastinated
fossil dove
Yeah I am not sure what they are talking about if youre on the platform you can most certainly step back
can confirm for normal and heroic not mythic
It may be distance too
as logically You just immediately step the second you pull
if you waited to probably deserve to die
fossil dove
mists is the only dung tolerable for me
that dungeon is gross
I love it super chill till those damn bugs
fossil dove
I did that dungeon on my fire mage and it was wonderful
but melee in mists doesnt inspire joy
jaunty umbra
only part that i hate about mists are those mobs that leave puddles in the maze
fossil dove
only part that i hate about mists are those mobs that leave puddles in the maze
minor annoyance
@vale pine Whats the move rn for dungeons, I need to play sub tonight for my BTM group
lilac stag
I can on ansurek
Can on Rashanananana as well
fair stump
Is BTM streamed?
swift tinsel
it's not a broadcast event, it's a community thing you just kinda do
just run two +5 or higher as eligible specs
fair stump
Oh, wanted to see people pumping with sub
hollow spear
If I understand the sub guide correctly, you're supposed to do a naked symbols between flag bursts
It seems like I am stuck on 2 charges of dance for quite a while if I do that, am I doing sth wrong or is that intended gameplay?
fair stump
If I understand the sub guide correctly, you're supposed to do a naked symbols b...
i don't think you do naked symbols anymore
At least I haven't
swift tinsel
you synch it with secret technique
So you double dance in opener/cd's, dance ~45sec, skip dance ~1min and send symbols and sectech without it
the main thing is making sure you symbols with sectech, and send dance when able so that you have 2x charges of both symbols and dance for your next flag/blades window
there's a bit of a rhythm to it that you'll get used to
hollow spear
Also should have been more concrete, I am strictly talking about DS. On trickster, you can apparently delay the naked symbols until deeper into the fight.
hollow spear
So you double dance in opener/cd's, dance ~45sec, skip dance ~1min and send symb...
I will try that then, I tried to send the naked symbols first and then symbols + dance.
swift tinsel
I will try that then, I tried to send the naked symbols first and then symbols +...
bit of a visualization
hollow spear
I'd love it DS felt more like Trickster 😛
swift tinsel
things are a bit different for DS because you have less CDR
hollow spear
Yes, I feel that. Unfortunately, my trickster sims like 100k below DS.
Still no Transmitter 300 weeks in. Sub already suffers without it, but Trickster even more (at least if I can believe raidbots).
vale pine
<@194804407706189824> Whats the move rn for dungeons, I need to play sub tonight...
Assassiantion is "the meta"
For sub Trickster is the play
vestal escarp
fossil dove
Assassiantion is "the meta"
For sub Trickster is the play
Thanks King
viral phoenix
deathstalker goes hard honestly
in m+ isnt the main complaint having to eviscerate feels bad in an aoe pull but isnt that trickster now adays thats spamming BP at 5+ target count but having to coup when that rolls around
fossil dove
Assassiantion is "the meta"
For sub Trickster is the play
What situation would you take ds over trick
swift tinsel
You want to have less fun
fair stump
What situation would you take ds over trick
you hate yourself
swift tinsel
What situation would you take ds over trick
generally ds in pure st fights
fossil dove
Gotcha so its never better in M+
swift tinsel
or m+ when you're doing large pulls or pulls into bosses
fossil dove
oh gotcha
viral phoenix
m+ deathstalker goes HARD on stonevault/NW dungeons w/ big pulls
fossil dove
spoke to soon
fossil dove
What gives DS blackpowder so much strength compared to say trickster using the same ability?
viral phoenix
well so is trickster now adays 😭 but deathstalker good high target count
fossil dove
Say there is ten mobs both spec uses black powder ds hits harder?
swift tinsel
Momentum of Despair
viral phoenix
BEEEEEG
swift tinsel
plague damage buffs
vale pine
What situation would you take ds over trick
ds has stronger sustained aoe, but its annoying to play.
fossil dove
ds has stronger sustained aoe, but its annoying to play.
What makes DS annoying to play?
vale pine
What makes DS annoying to play?
deathstalkers mark
hazy breach
Say there is ten mobs both spec uses black powder ds hits harder?
sustained yes, in burst no
fossil dove
I am just trying to understand the grievance with it, but keep in mind I only have real experience with SIN and I completely understand the workings of outlaw
I appreciate you guys taking time to answer my questions
hazy breach
I wouldnt recommend deathstalker anywhere besides pure ST.
But sustained aoe it is definitely better than trickster
Just not really worth it in m+ imo
viral phoenix
20 second speed shroud
fossil dove
So we dont consider M+ to be sustained AOE due to variations in pack size and downtime between pulls
viral phoenix
can do a loop around the dungeon holy
swift tinsel
So we dont consider M+ to be sustained AOE due to variations in pack size and do...
and also comp too
viral phoenix
personally i think deathstalker feels better cause theres not really a dry spurt like trickster has where you're just kinda sitting there for 18 seconds waiting for flag
fossil dove
Understood Eleem
viral phoenix
ur always doing decent damage so i like it more
fossil dove
3+ minutes aoe
so like mythic brood
lol
?
But it cant compete with sin aoe on that fight can it?
Im trying to think what fight has massive aoe for 3+ mins
viral phoenix
i never did the rotten optimization with trickster, does a sequence look like SD>Strike>Secret/Coup>Storm>Secret/Coup>Strike>BP.......
viral phoenix
getting a shadow craft reset doesnt change anything as to what finishers we're prioing right? Like you'd still sectech > BP even if its before ur first storm?
swift tinsel
I would think in that case if you don't have FW up on enough targets you'd sectech > evisc since you have flawless up
viral phoenix
oh thats cool
viral phoenix
and you still wanna shuriken storm once at 2-4 target count when you're pressing evisc or just only strike ever at those target counts?
hazy breach
Strike
viral phoenix
kk ty
swift tinsel
if 2 out of 4 targets have FW including your main target, does shadowed finishers proc on all of them because of your main target having it or just the ones that have FW? Or does it treat the cleaved damage as just a flat value from the damage your main target took
via nimble flurry
hazy breach
Evis is just based on your main target
swift tinsel
ah, that's what I thought. ty
hazy breach
For the shadowed finisher part
FW makes the targets take more damage from nimble since their armor is lower
swift tinsel
makes sense
hazy breach
But its not worth it to not strike because strike just does so much more damage than storm
swift tinsel
right, it trucks
vale pine
sub rogues just have a striking intellect, so we need to use shadowstrike
thick temple
is there no crest cap anymore? Im not seeing a limit under the currency tabs for crests
sharp kernel
They just removed it today
thick temple
is that typical in xpacs lol
wind canopy
They’ve been doing it in the past few non-fated patches
hazy breach
Theres practically no difference between removing it and keeping it at this point in the patch
Its almost impossible to need all the crests
twilit hedge
Do I even bother binding cold blood or do I just macro it into sectec and rely on them lining up
lilac stag
It’s a very minimal min max to keep them separate
twilit hedge
why am I able to do double evis without generating another set of combo points?
hazy breach
Shadowcraft
solemn lance
any good vids on sub since the removal of dust. Coming back to team subtlety
lilac stag
Eleem on YT
rugged condor
symbols/dance dont affect trinkets right? i shouldnt use mandate in dance
uneven scarab
symbols does affect mandate actually
hazy breach
symbols/dance dont affect trinkets right? i shouldnt use mandate in dance
It does not in general
hazy breach
Some exceptions exists, like PE that give you crit during symbols works and lingering darkness from deathstalker works
Thats generally considered a bug though
viral phoenix
what do you guys prefer on ansurek, trickster or deathstalker? is the hero talent logic for raid basically if more than ST go trickster?
graceful crown
lilac stag
what do you guys prefer on ansurek, trickster or deathstalker? is the hero talen...
Sim. My Trickey sims higher in st
crimson dagger
how does sub feel on Mythic silken court? is it worth swapping over from assass for this fight?
void hound
not really
coral lily
Is there an updated sub guide somewhere?
hazy breach
Wowhead and icy veins are both updated
coral lily
perfect thx 😄
small juniper
np
haughty mural
Sim. My Trickey sims higher in st
vestal escarp
Koop the grakke
short radish
games just that easy sometimes
strange chasm
Rotation for DS is almost the same as trickster right
short radish
ish yeah
strange chasm
Other than always applying mark no matter what
short radish
except you ALWAYS consume DN
swift tinsel
Mostly, just hard prio evisc with DN
short radish
also you really dont want rupture to fall off
strange chasm
Yeah pre much what I thought
When you guys not sending dance with flag on cd?
45s?
swift tinsel
40ish
unless you have multiple targets for a bit of extra cdr
also if people playing trickster want the handholder BP weakaura here it is https://wago.io/ZpPc-YY4v
might see an uptick of people asking about it for BTM
honest saddle
@hazy breach if there was lfr all star points it would be you and me at #1 and #2
I think we need to petition wcl
strange chasm
40ish
40ish remaining on flag and you aren't sending another dance until cds pre much?
swift tinsel
40ish remaining on flag and you aren't sending another dance until cds pre much?
I pretty much exclusively play trickster so I'm not 100% sure what the flag cd timing is for DS
honest saddle
what are you guys doing when you have six combo points but DN is up? I normally push for 7
shy karma
what are you guys doing when you have six combo points but DN is up? I normally ...
FoK>env
is what I do usually if all the bleeds are ticking with enough time
swift tinsel
all good lol
shy karma
sorry fellow sub enjoyers xD
honest saddle
I mean
the spells are SOOOOOO different
how could you
unless the clear the witness is available pretty sure you would strike or gloom
less energy for gloom, more dam than shuriken
in m+ sure, shuriken
glossy turtle
is sub any good at m+ now? with the buffs?
glossy turtle
dude, that is awesome
do you then play it? bosses must feel waay better (compared to assa)
alpine wraith
yea bosses are our strong point
glossy turtle
Not better than assa, but fairly close
im guessing its simmed. so like sub 5% diff?
hazy breach
Its hard to accurately sim m+, but yes something in that range
Depends on a lot of things though
vestal escarp
Sin still great sustained
hybrid prism
sub is like 100x cooler too so you are automatically better than sin
glossy turtle
sub is like 100x cooler too so you are automatically better than sin
true. I just despise transmitter
hybrid prism
true. I just despise transmitter
I have a weak aura that tells me what to do, super easy
glossy turtle
I have a weak aura that tells me what to do, super easy
Still I dont like having to pick piss up from th floor. just annoying
sharp kernel
That ring might not be to bad for sub, free stats
hybrid prism
Still I dont like having to pick piss up from th floor. just annoying
i've gotten used to it. Just feels like part of the rotation now haha
glossy turtle
i've gotten used to it. Just feels like part of the rotation now haha
havent had it for long, but I just dont like it at all. does the pick up thing ever spawn in pools?
hazy breach
!transmitter
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
glossy turtle
I have it
hybrid prism
havent had it for long, but I just dont like it at all. does the pick up thing e...
you learn how to do it at the right time but yes sometimes
sharp kernel
Saw someone hit a 30 mill one the other day
sharp kernel
Improved shiruken storm should be the only one you need for keys you know will have 5+
glossy turtle
im running this phat build
hazy breach
Ye thats good
sick jackal
Hows the new ring for us?
hazy breach
Pretty shit
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
hazy breach
But theyre gonna buff it 100%
hazy breach
Since no point releasing the item if nobody wants it
glossy turtle
do we use shadow strike as a builder?
vestal escarp
In dance yeah
vestal escarp
Same energy as strike
glossy turtle
Once in dance and everytime youre not in dance
even at 2 targets?
hazy breach
Not in dance yes
Storm and backstab practically doesnt do damage
You use them for cp
And 2 cp > 1 cp
sharp kernel
Does storm proc the bonus cp?
hazy breach
What bonus cp
glossy turtle
was it at 5 or above? for BP?
hazy breach
5
tulip token
Saw someone hit a 30 mill one the other day
That is nuts! haha I am missing some sub gear but I wouldnt imagine a 30m hit even with the gear I am missing. I would like a myth transmitter tho 😦
sharp kernel
What bonus cp
The bonus cp’s you can get from hitting backstab, it pulls from a bank
hazy breach
Yes those are from any builders
sharp kernel
Ight
swift tinsel
is there a single target dummy somewhere that isn't laggy as hell like in dornogal
tribal blade
@sinful sluice if your guild can't 1-3 shot it after these nerfs on your next raid night god be with you
digital aspen
im a bit bummed that we are 200+ pulls in and these nerfs hit, but also relieved that we're finally gonna be done with this boss
tribal blade
it's kind of a feelsbad in a way for my guild
we killed it right before these nerfs
but now it means everyone gonna catch up immediately
so we didn't really gain anything
is there any world in which this ring is useful for sub
barren narwhal
If you have enough mastery from other pieces it’s probably good
Lot of vers which is nice
And you do want some crit
hazy breach
For trickster some crit is fine ye, but ideally you get that crit from the queen ring
tribal blade
see what robot says
tribal blade
And for deathstalker crit is worse than haste
yeah this one is kinda a big yikes
wind canopy
I mean it makes sense
hazy breach
Turns out crit aint that good when you already have 100% crit on a lot of stuff
thick temple
also running an umbriss band but w cursed mastery and vers onyxs. Whats your secondary stat spread?
hazy breach
I feel like cold blood should do more crit damage based on your crit chance or something, but it is what it is
thick temple
I went with tokens for the 2nd week in a row for vault 
haughty mural
Turns out crit aint that good when you already have 100% crit on a lot of stuff
If we still had seal fate crit would surely be better 
tribal blade
i mostly have quite a bit of crit because i have the tailspinner neck crit/mast 639
tribal blade
sim says it's like -7k dps on ST
so it's def even more of a loss for dslice
i think this is the first socket i get from vault
thick temple
sim tells me to socket my visage helm with vers crit i dont understand the sim sometimes. Do i not want mastery over and over again
hazy breach
No vers is good
thick temple
No vers is good or no, vers is good
hazy breach
Vers is good
thick temple
lol
tribal blade
write that down
thick temple
write that down eleem is TRASHING on vers
sinful sluice
<@310330329028362240> if your guild can't 1-3 shot it after these nerfs on your ...
damn i actually feel bad for the nerf
its gonna be way too easy now
only if we killed it last week 😢
swift tinsel
heck yeah
aw sweet it even does the ethereal run animation
wish they had like an engineer thing that reduced or resets the cooldown of toys or disguises
vestal escarp
We finally talking how weak cb is as a capstone?
lofty saffron
Bound SoD to mouse wheel scroll up and it double casts every time. Is there a way around this?
vestal escarp
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
lofty saffron
Much appreciated!
tribal blade
only if we killed it last week 😢
but at least court prison is over 😉
wind canopy
Does it really matter when court dies when it's about Queen in the end?
fallow nimbus
CB should be set to 30sec cd
teal prawn
Cb should just set you to 100% crit for 1 minute with a 1 minute cd
teal prawn
It’s December at the post office. I’m drinking in the parking lot 
wind canopy
fallow nimbus
CB should be passive active when we enter dance and be called even more master assassin
fair stump
Cb should just set you to 100% crit for 1 minute with a 1 minute cd
Fuck that, make it a passive
teal prawn
Please don’t take anything I say seriously I’m only here to annoy Ed
tribal blade
a cool idea was make it a passive in the sub tree that makes sectec guaranteed crit all the time
wind canopy
Would have to nerf the base damage though, yeah?
tribal blade
probably, tuning is quite easy
swift tinsel
combine with supercharger
and make your crit chance its crit damage
and it casts Dispatch at 75% damage
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
strange chasm
can you cloak the bloodbound run out
teal prawn
Yea
strange chasm
sub is back guys
solar thicket
Do you guys prepot with the big CD on single macro or do it separately to focus in certain pulls, what do you recommend?
Sorry if my eng sucks lol
fallow nimbus
I have the cauldron r3 potion in a macro
Else i use potion manually because i intend to stay a millionaire
With a macro too
short radish
Do you guys prepot with the big CD on single macro or do it separately to focus ...
/use [combat]item:212971
/use [combat]item:212970
/use [combat]item:212969
/use [combat]item:212265
/use [combat]item:212264
new potion macro
uses fleeting first > r3>r2>r1
you can assign different macros to use different pots
solar thicket
/use [combat]item:212971
/use [combat]item:212970
/use [combat]item:212969
/use ...
Whats the difference?
short radish
i have the t2 potions binded to most of my burst stuff that i dont care about as much
but then in my raid build i have the t3/fleetings
young path
does anyone have a transmitter to flag macro that actually works?
everything i try blocks flag... 😦
pliant topaz
what do u want the macro to do
pliant topaz
i mean sure, but transmitter isnt
pretty sure u can do somethign like /use 13 or 14 (whichever is your transmitter slot) / cast flagellation
that should work
probably more elegent solutions too but this should be good enoguh
young path
i would like to initiate the tranmitter when i cast flag for ease
pliant topaz
pretty sure u can do somethign like /use 13 or 14 (whichever is your transmitter...
and this doesnt work for you?
young path
my key bind for it is awkward but i fear change because i have soo many buttons already lol
young path
and this doesnt work for you?
nope
pliant topaz
jsut tried it works for me
young path
weird i cant get it to work, flag wont cast
sharp kernel
Copy the macro as you have it exactly
sharp kernel
Did you add a space somewhere?
young path
made it onto a stream today, thought its was really cool and figured i'd link it... its 4 hours+ but I came in at the 2:35:00 mark. mistweaver monk perspective
++14 ara
+16 mists fail 2nd pull
+15 mists timed
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2323325643
tribal blade
successfully padded with DS on ovinax
although 2nd on boss damage, so actually not padding
short radish
its ethical funnel
tribal blade
DS has a shitton of prio
stray plank
man i forgot how much fun sub is, i don't plan on playing sin again this season tbh
short radish
pressing buttons that directly correspond to seeing damage is fun
i dunno it feels like im not describing that right
since every class is press button and do damage
but assi it doesnt feel like youre rewarded for it as much as sub
stray plank
we get to dannce a bunch
which is also fun cuz i have the crackshot refund sound set to play when i proc shadow craft
so i get to caching like im on outlaw
stray plank
if only outlaw actually had burst
flat profile feelsbadman
i like outlaw in little keys though
doesnt matter if pack dies in 10 seconds
on sub i cant usually fit a whole blades window on a pack
stray plank
If you have darkest night and sectech is 10 seconds off do you just open with evic into sectech in a dance?
alpine wraith
you always spend DN
stray plank
Yeah but do I do it in a dance or send it naked then dance the sectech
So like DN ready, sectech in 10. Do I evic>symbols>dance> SS> Sechtech
Or do I symbols>dance>evic> SS> sectech
tribal blade
that's actually a perfect situation
because you consume DN with supercharger on 1st finisher in dance
then sectec on with supercharger on 2nd finisher
big dam
tribal blade
yeah very hard
teal prawn
collect or stand in circle
novel marlin
!sod
wicked joltBOT
Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs
opaque plaza
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
stray plank
I've always found it amusing that trickster outlaw is so doomed it's not even on the sheet
glossy turtle
with BP buffs how would Sub do compared to assa on ovinax?
tribal blade
sub is pretty decent on ovi now
but like all else it's all about how much aoe your raid team is doing
pliant flame
any general tips for a beginner sub rogue?
tribal blade
any general tips for a beginner sub rogue?
first work on how to do the burst sequence correctly, and then work from there
sub is very much a cd spec, so your rotation in cds is very important
glossy turtle
but like all else it's all about how much aoe your raid team is doing
You mean like after 3rd alter?
tribal blade
You mean like after 3rd alter?
i mean more so getting a good parse on ovi is all about other people not doing good aoe dam 😉
like all the top logs had their warriors/dks die on the fight
so they could do monster dam
glossy turtle
i mean more so getting a good parse on ovi is all about other people not doing g...
we used to just being 4 selected pumpers, getting to do aoe, and the rest had to play st. But now it seems we have some more just going aoe, so theyre getting killed very fast
tribal blade
the boss dies really fast now, you don't really need to optimize damage as much anymore
glossy turtle
its hard on assa, at least to pump that hard dmg, when you dont get many gcds in. Cause you gotta spread your CT
and Wanted to play sub more
tbh
RL just wanted assa, for dmg.
tribal blade
i only play sub on it now because i had horrendous lag on the fight as sin
glossy turtle
Like I am doing alot of dmg, its just not as fun as sub would be, i imagine
tribal blade
which i discovered is because of the combo of spatter+singular focus
tribal blade
Like I am doing alot of dmg, its just not as fun as sub would be, i imagine
it's pretty chill being sub on the fight, and you're also more tanky
glossy turtle
like focus kick?
tribal blade
oh no singular focus in the DS tree
tribal blade
both spatter and focus cause a fuckton of damage events
and on a fight like ovi for me it was causing really bad lag
swapping to sub fixed it completely
glossy turtle
have never lagged on that boss. Had a piss 10yr old harddrive, swapped to a new nvme and now all raid fights are hella smooth
glossy turtle
swapping to sub fixed it completely
its also cooler
tribal blade
i agree
the cd usage is pretty simple to, you literally only send cds on egg sets except for cding on pull into boss
and only ever dance on egg sets
the only problem with playing sub on ovi is using transmitter
glossy turtle
I rly wanna play keys on sub now, Just stopped after I tried pugging CoT, and paladins would absorb orbs on 3rd boss and just not bubble. Like that kinda stupid thing over like 15 runs. But now that they are kinda close to assa in m+ im kinda excited to play
glossy turtle
the only problem with playing sub on ovi is using transmitter
I hate transmitter :C
Like the timing is good, its just soo annoying
tribal blade
yeah it's super rough to use on ovi tbh
you just need to plan how to spawn it
so it doesn't get lost
if you put it under the boss and all the adds you're in for a world of hurt
glossy turtle
I mean the egg pops are hella ez to remember, ( like the marks) so I do just often have time
well, you pop it before adds. right?
Transmitter
tribal blade
yeah right before adds come out pretty much
glossy turtle
Like 4 sec before eggs pop
tribal blade
but i just enjoy sub on that fight way more, and also you can take more damage and live 😉
compared to sin
glossy turtle
never rly had a problem with taking dmg tbh. once I had swirlies come on me 2x in a row when I needed to pop eggs. Which kinda sucked
tribal blade
during prog we had 2 gray parsing healers
which meant stuff was not getting healed off very well
when i swapped to sub with the same healers in the raid i could live stuff that would have otherwise killed me as sin
so i could actually start to play more aggressively with positioning without worrying about swirlies
glossy turtle
during prog we had 2 gray parsing healers
yikes
tribal blade
yeah we lost a main healer before this tier started (he's back now though) and our new trial to replace him failed his trial
glossy turtle
we have pretty good healers tbh. that is kinda like the one good thing we have. Dps is kinda mid tbh. We are like 3 guys who are miles ahead XD. and tanks are decent ig.
tribal blade
so our healing team for progging this tier has been quite weak
but we get our full power back for queen
glossy turtle
eezzz moneeey
tribal blade
dude this healer failed his trial in such a strange way
we had a weekly requirement for delves at the start of the tier
and everyone was getting them done, and this guy had done literally 0
glossy turtle
dude.... XD
tribal blade
so our RL contacts him and is like "hey, you gotta do your delves"
he says "ok"
and then proceeds not to do them
so it was kind of like "cool, so you fail?"
short radish
glossy turtle
but how on earth do you fail to do delves? as a healer, youre getting insta invited
Was he playing?
short radish
obviously not lol
tribal blade
he has like 4 priests, and he was running his alt priests through raid instead of working on his main
tribal blade
yeah the entire thing was so strange lol
glossy turtle
you kinda meet some ppl, and wonder "how is this real?". Like on ovinax, they had apparently done alot of pulls before I joined the guild. But when we were popping eggs, we had the same 2 ppl miss their egg pops, which they have the same location every time. They did that like 10 times. And I literally didnt think that would be possible
tribal blade
it really screwed us for the tier because then we had to put in a priest healer we have who's usually a bench player
tribal blade
you kinda meet some ppl, and wonder "how is this real?". Like on ovinax, they ha...
ngl i had a bit of difficulty doing egg breaks for a bit, but we had done like over 100 pulls where i was getting only 1 marker every time, and then they swapped it halfway through prog so that our lock would have less difficulty with marking an add
so relearning halfway through prog fucking SUCKS lol
glossy turtle
I have never ever had thoose issues, I always got star and then sometimes I kept getting random ones. But its definetly understandable. Might have been since i havent had that many pulls on it. I honeslty just said to RL at one point. Just give everyone who messes up a permanent marker, and just let me run to a random decided egg, ever pop
tribal blade
I have never ever had thoose issues, I always got star and then sometimes I kept...
yeah that's a great idea
glossy turtle
seemed to work
even though I sometimes have to stand out of AA range, im fine with it
tribal blade
it does work, doing egg breaks is much easier when you know you'll only ever get 1 marker
glossy turtle
yeah the problem was just that the ones who got the permanent marker, for the majority of the time, already had a permanent run. which means they coudlnt remember where green mark was after 25 pops XD
think they got replaced actually
saw some new ppl
tribal blade
hopefully that makes the rest of your prog easier
pliant flame
i feel like im doing something wrong
tribal blade
i feel like im doing something wrong
black powder is a good button to press now
on 5+ targets BP instead of nimble
glossy turtle
hopefully that makes the rest of your prog easier
I think it will. we are at like 17% after few pulls yesterday. I couldnt join the first hr, where they didnt get past phase 2, when I joined we got longer then ever, consistently, there HAS to be a correlation there😎 . Nah but yeah, it will probably be easier
short radish
having to randomly bp
tribal blade
I think it will. we are at like 17% after few pulls yesterday. I couldnt join th...
huge!
tribal blade
having to randomly bp
yeah it took me a while to work in that muscle memory
pliant flame
so 5+ its shuriken + BP and less than that is BS or SS + evis?
glossy turtle
you shuriken out of dance, and in dance you shuriken once and then you use Shadow strike for builders. iirc
tribal blade
so 5+ its shuriken + BP and less than that is BS or SS + evis?
the main thing is in dance with 5+ targets you want to consume your first rotten stack with strike, then second with storm to apply find weakness to all targets
and then after that you alternate between strike to build and BP as spender
this is important because BP does a lot more damage when all targets have find weakness
pliant flame
oah so you stack the supercharged cp with rotten for massive crit techs
tribal blade
and then after you can use strike to build and proc unseenblade for coup
oh no rotten is only builders like strike and storm
not sectec
glossy turtle
this is important because BP does a lot more damage when all targets have find w...
Damn didnt know that. I have also only played 1 key as sub, it was like a 10 mists.
tribal blade
Damn didnt know that. I have also only played 1 key as sub, it was like a 10 mis...
i finally got it down and here's dam from my own 10 mists 😉
leaden prairie
i knew sub had potential
tribal blade
ahhhhh i understand! it applies weakness
just so you understand why you strike to consume 1 rotten, then storm for the 2nd is because it's bugged
tribal blade
i knew sub had potential
isn't it glorious
leaden prairie
yes
tribal blade
just so you understand why you strike to consume 1 rotten, then storm for the 2n...
if you cast storm with 2 rotten charges available it will eat both
leaden prairie
i still think sub is prolly better than outlaw in keys, just need one sub player to enter m+
tribal blade
if my ele comes back for the season i might possibly start pushing again
right now i'm enjoying doing weekly 10s
leaden prairie
real pushing or
glossy turtle
i finally got it down and here's dam from my own 10 mists 😉
sheeesh
Mine wasnt good at all.
XD
pliant flame
okay i think im misunderstanding shadowcraft, what are shadow techniques?
tribal blade
but seeing how much dam sub is doing right now i feel if i got back into 15s right now it would be a breeze
tribal blade
okay i think im misunderstanding shadowcraft, what are shadow techniques?
it's a little confusing
but basically you generate sht stacks while auto attacking
glossy turtle
I kept just using evisc, isntead of Black powder. had BP on a super annoying Keybind
tribal blade
during shadowcraft you gain more CPs more quickly
and then you get refunds when your sht stacks hit 7 or more during symbols
pliant flame
ah thats why i was randomly getting 7 cp's
tribal blade
so if you have 7 or more sht during symbols you would finish>instantly get 7 CPs back
tribal blade
ah thats why i was randomly getting 7 cp's
yes exactly
it's good to track sht stacks
so you can visually see when you're going to get refunds
~wa
!wa
tribal blade
there's also a WA there that gives you a sound when you get a sht refund
and all those packs should have 1 thing or another that'll visually show sht stacks
i just literally have a number counter on my CP/energy bar
pliant flame
are the class packs a whole weakaura or just a few things?
tribal blade
they're entire set ups, but you can find specific things in them and pull them out
and then delete the pack and just save what you want
tribal blade
are the class packs a whole weakaura or just a few things?
you can look through here and find something you like too
pliant flame
you have been a very big help prophet, thank you very much
tribal blade
you have been a very big help prophet, thank you very much
no worries!
https://wago.io/8cvRKxXeX i think i'm literally using this one
tribal blade
zacs pack is way better than all the others i heard
no way bro
leaden prairie
ye
tribal blade
do you know da wae?
tribal blade
https://wago.io/8cvRKxXeX i think i'm literally using this one
this one is nice because it's just a simple number and you can put it anywhere you need to visually see the stack number
so i just edited the style of the font and popped it over my energy bar and CPs
tribal blade
i know i do a lot of frankensteining haha
leaden prairie
wtf is hapenign here cuh
vestal escarp
Based luxthos just recolored first 2 cps in blue
tribal blade
so i'm so lazy and wanted to see supercharger stacks
so i just grabbed a random supercharger WA and put it there
i should do something about that
i could legit do the same thing as the sht counter
supercharger isn't really something you need to visually see that much anyways as sub tbh
i need it more so for pre pulls and running between packs in keys
so i can see how many stacks i'm at
remote shuttle
i finally got it down and here's dam from my own 10 mists 😉
This numbers are huge... May i ask if u use off cds when ready or if you kept sometimes for big pulls in mists? Still messing my gameplay with this lot of times...
... My best mists is like +12 with 1,8M overall...
tribal blade
This numbers are huge... May i ask if u use off cds when ready or if you kept so...
try to be as aggressive with cds as possible
so long as you don't completely waste cds on a pack that'll die in 10 seconds
remote shuttle
So never keep for next big packs
tribal blade
nah don't think too much about that tbh
because sitting on cds as sub is really bad
considering how much damage we do in cds
remote shuttle
Ok that's a great hint bud, ty a lot
remote shuttle
Think my biggest mistake is hold for something bigger...
tribal blade
and the answer is seems counter intuitive, but it makes sense
think less=do more damage
leaden prairie
I think one of the biggest issue people have
When playing this game
Is holding cds lol
It's almost never worth to hold
leaden prairie
More usage is like 99% better
tribal blade
i watched a SV hunter in SL hold cds on the last boss of workshop
for the whole of P1
so she could ahve them for lust in P2
and we were like
if you just used on pull
they would have come up at some point during lust
so maybe they don't last the entire of lust maybe
but losing an entire cast of your major cd is so bad
leaden prairie
Maybe p1 was irrelevant compared to P2 tho
I don't remember what last boss workshop is
tribal blade
it's the one with magnets
uh
king mechagon
but this was a relatively high key, so P1 was long enough where they would have 100% been back up for the start of P2
it made sense after because we were wondering why her damage was sometimes super sus
or conversely you play outlaw and never think about when to send cds ever again 😉
gritty knot
Damn all those time I played on DF auto brain mode and even in dance I used storm + BP all the time instead of strike + BP. Is it much of a dmg loss tho?
*this
tribal blade
Damn all those time I played on DF auto brain mode and even in dance I used stor...
do you mean DS?
gritty knot
Nope. As Trickster 😂
tribal blade
ah ok haha
yeah you want to do that sequence as trickster for aoe
if you only cast storm+BP in dance as trickster you won't be proccing unseen blade
which means you won't be proccing coup
and you're also losing out on flawless form stacks
when you use your 2nd rotten charge with storm you apply FW to everything anyways
and that FW will cover your entire dance duration
remote shuttle
think less=do more damage
Thanks a lot again bud, will try be more aggressive from next m+ and think less
remote shuttle
zacs pack is way better than all the others i heard
Zac pack is my pref, u are a light in the dark buddy 👌😉
tribal blade
Thanks a lot again bud, will try be more aggressive from next m+ and think less
hope it helps!
leaden prairie
Zac pack is my pref, u are a light in the dark buddy 👌😉
Uwu
strange rover
!macro
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique
/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.I am a classic example of an overthinker. For keys that im doing for the first time, like higher keys. I tend to deal less dmg. then I run 1 key under, or if I rund the key again. and my dmg is much higher, cause I dont overthink
tribal blade
I am a classic example of an overthinker. For keys that im doing for the first t...
same for me
it's a big thing being comfortable with a key so you know the cadence of pulls and how long stuff will live roughly
i think sin is the rogue spec you can sit on cds for the most
glossy turtle
Yeah, like on certain keys I just know that i have optimsed my big cds use.
Variation with teams, but ya know
tribal blade
since as sin you don't really need cds to do aoe, so you can start holding for an upcoming boss/hard pull easier
tribal blade
i much prefer playing sub
if i do start pushing keys again i'll definitely be using sin for some dungeons
tribal blade
but for raid now i only run sub
glossy turtle
its just good overall
but now that they are close in dmg, I would much rather play sub
tribal blade
true, i meant more so sin is much better in some places, most notably the places where iron wire goes hard
tribal blade
hehe yeah, but answer is your prot pal kicks a lot
and also everyone else kicks
and uses cc
and then it's mostly fine
but i would still keep running sin in like SV/GB mostly
glossy turtle
I dont find many tanks who arent prot pally tbh
glossy turtle
but i would still keep running sin in like SV/GB mostly
yessirs
tribal blade
the meta has gotten really bad for tanks
tribal blade
big feelsbad for prot warrs
immediately after yoda timed his 19 ara he said "buff prot pal"
because he was losing aggro to his dps before last boss
kind of a crazy thing to say
it's less to do with prot pal getting a nerf, and more so to do with enhance just doing such insane amounts of dps
tribal blade
they do yeah
glossy turtle
aug, enhance, frost r
glossy turtle
daumn
tribal blade
i'm mixing up teams i think
dk yeah mb
i was thinking of kirapal's team haha
so far the only 19s that have been possible to time have all been ara's
and only 9 of them
oh shit speed got a run, that's 1 on the board for rogues
glossy turtle
still insane that ppl are running 19s tbh. I mea some keys, just arent possible at 19.
arent they all max ilvl by now as well?
tribal blade
mostly yes
the next big power spike (if it ends up even being good) will be the ring
but unless they super juice the ring i don't think it'll be enough to see key levels go up by much
glossy turtle
heard the ring looses to like 99% of all other 639 rings
the only upgrade its for is for shammy
plush roost
Everyone thought nobody was going past 21 uldaman last season either and yet it happened. I imagine we end on a 20 arakara before season ends
glossy turtle
like its hella undertuned
plush roost
Gb is probably capped below 20 tho lmfao
tribal blade
Everyone thought nobody was going past 21 uldaman last season either and yet it ...
yeah it could happen, we're a long way off the season ending
plush roost
Also graham i played sub rogue in a 15 mists
tribal blade
HUGE how'd it go
plush roost
What a banger key that is for sub
tribal blade
how did you guys do 1st boss
plush roost
Ingara i did 85m more than both other dps lol
tribal blade
did you send everything into main boss on pull or tree
plush roost
I send cds on first pack of dungo, then we did sap and chain small dudes into brambles as u do
Sent cds as the first stomp went off and killed all trash with that
tribal blade
nice nice
plush roost
Then sent on ingaras pmuch every time
Since it lines super well
We ran melee gang too hahaa
Fury war, fdk, sub
tribal blade
rsham?
tribal blade
nice nice
plush roost
Pookiexo if u know him
tribal blade
oh yeah i know him
plush roost
Dudes a gamer
tribal blade
not personally, but i've seen him around
plush roost
Havent had time to push keys its been nice to get back into it
Wish sub was more viable tho, sin boss damage makes me cry
plush roost
Yeah, if they dont do the sidepack+golem pull then i tell them to pull the second side pack during molten mace
Usually can survive the shadowflame slashes if we coordinate
Doesn't matter cause we die before dragon boss anyway
tribal blade
they need to nerf those flashes
plush roost
😦
plush roost
Yeah we were cruising on a 15, then the double before boss just
tribal blade
that's a combo of a ton of kicks, a mob that needs to be soothed/cc'd, a prio mob that hits 50% and does massive dam, frontals, decurses
plush roost
So many slashes, stops, and a lavabender sheesh
tribal blade
it's a lot
thing is my ele and i timed a 14 GB a while back while hard carrying a ret pally
who had no business being in the key
so i feel like 15 very doable right now
we tried a 15 GB back then and it didn't feel as bad as we thought it would
tribal blade
lol yeah
seen a lot of prot pals malding when you cc those mobs right as he bubbles the slashes
tribal blade
lol me too
hazy breach
i still think sub is prolly better than outlaw in keys, just need one sub player...
Im trying cuh
plush roost
Till hes done his defensive rotation
tribal blade
i feel like you could wrangle a team together, you're good enough people would be very eager to take you
plush roost
Are you playing exclusively sub in keys eleem?
tribal blade
but historically getting 5 steady people to key with is a nightmare
hazy breach
Are you playing exclusively sub in keys eleem?
Not in sv or gb typically, but the others ye
plush roost
but historically getting 5 steady people to key with is a nightmare
Getting 5 people and telling them I'm playing a "worse" spec as well
tribal blade
Getting 5 people and telling them I'm playing a "worse" spec as well
hehe i've managed to find people to play with back when sub wasn't the meta spec, it's possible
that becomes more so about relationship management tbh
plush roost
Yeah but its different when your class has another spec thats just better
At least i find
tribal blade
i did it during S3 SL when outlaw was the thing
that was fucking rough
but i eventually made it
whoops DF not SL
digital aspen
oh shit, uncapped crests, time to craft some sub gear
plush roost
Yeah s3 outlaw was banging
tribal blade
haha true!
plush roost
My team sweating
tribal blade
yeah as sub
plush roost
Waow
plush roost
Hey tho, you timed it
tribal blade
my outlaw buddy was in there with me and he helped pick up the slack haha
plush roost
2 rogue??
tribal blade
we did! overall pretty clean play
plush roost
A believer
tribal blade
oh yeah there were so many double rogue keys that season
plush roost
Really? I remember it being a lot of aug mage priest
tribal blade
like the meta for throne was x2 outlaw and x1 warr
yeah mage and priest was big too
but it was not uncommon to see double rogue keys
plush roost
Hmm how do I convince people to let me play double rogue keys this season
I see my rogue friends in lfg
And i always dm them the "2 rogues op !" And queue in
Mostly as a joke
tribal blade
plush roost
I just wish one day they'd just accept the invite lol
tribal blade
here's the list of timed thrones that season
look at all those x2 rogue keys haha
even 1 x3 rogue key
plush roost
The 3x rogue key
Banger
Man there was so much diversity in that season wtd
Looking at the % graph
tribal blade
the combo of x2 outlaw and warr was just so potent in there
yeah it was a lot better
plush roost
I hope season 2 has some more to it
tribal blade
S1 and the first half of S2 was very good
and then aug comes out
and then it all goes to hell
tribal blade
yeah i played with so many different specs in S1 DF
i loved it
i love being able to invite the player and not the class
tribal blade
i really like it when someone loves a spec/class to death
hazy breach
This season is unironically pretty decent
plush roost
Yeah, I met this warrior main a few days ago. Bro loves his spec
He's just like, "yo tank check this out"
And just taunt spell reflevts
And laughs like a crazy person
tribal blade
i think the only 1 hard requirement it seems recently is 1 dps shammy
or aug
for dps
tribal blade
And laughs like a crazy person
haha nice
tribal blade
i'm guessing that's why casual stopped running with kira
they probably dropped him for an aug
they were running triple dps for a while and on top of the leaderboards
plush roost
Yeah fdk rnh rogue
Tho tbh, fdk is hella replacable
Slot rogue in there just fine, or boomie
Mage pretty good too
tribal blade
dk is just so good right now
plush roost
Or another shaman
tribal blade
the combo of unkillable and grips is quite a bit
hazy breach
Them not fixing fleshcrafters in nw for the entire season is cringe though
tribal blade
agreed, it sucks
lilac stag
dk is just so good right now
What about their utility.
tribal blade
What about their utility. <:kekw:610125925413289985>
amz i suppose heehee
plush roost
Bro healers loooooove amz
hazy breach
I'm sorry cuh
Understandable that you dont talk to people below 3.4k
tribal blade
damn lover's quarrel
leaden prairie
Real
tribal blade
oh you guys have distracted me way too long, i gotta brush my teeth and shit
plush roost
Lol
tribal blade
bad sub rogue channel
plush roost
Pce out
lilac stag
Understandable that you dont talk to people below 3.4k
It’s projecting the same way groups don’t talk to rogues for above 3.4k
tribal blade
cya!
plush roost
I gotta go back to work anyway lol
leaden prairie
I swear I would be playing sub in keys more if it wasn't for that stupid bug
With cp refound
Make it just unfun
leaden prairie
Ye
Well idk which is better in keys anyway between trickster and ds?
Ds feels like it has more potential for high keys but I'm not informed enough
hazy breach
No
If you want it to sim better for sustained aoe you need to take the dark brew stuff
In which case its quite a bit worse for ST
hazy breach
Ye
leaden prairie
Ye ok
hazy breach
Its only better on like 3+ minutes in aoe
So theyre both generally pretty close, just trickster being more bursty and feels better to play
leaden prairie
Ok
hazy breach
Just gotta get rid of the muscle memory and properly do strike > bp
Instead of strike > evis or storm > bp
warm marlin
Trickster BP feels cursed
digital aspen
at what target count would you storm in dance as trickster? if any
vale pine
you storm once in dance on 5+ targets (without premeditation)
outside of dance on 3+ when flawless form is up, if flawless form is not up you backstab to get it back up
leaden prairie
Just gotta get rid of the muscle memory and properly do strike > bp
Wait you bp as trickster
It's a high target count tho right
digital aspen
its like, 5+
short radish
yeah but damage
digital aspen
it ll depend what kind of pack you re fighting ofc
digital aspen
but yeah, i would still evisc on 5 targets if there was a prio mob
short radish
That's why I don't like how trickster is rn
same
i want old sub
but i prefer old trickster
to current trickster
short radish
not have to think about which button to press
leaden prairie
I think deathstalker is kinda illegal actually
I don't get how it's possible to be allowed to funnel while doing aoe
hollow spear
Isn't that assassination's whole schtick?
hollow spear
Unfortunately I am bad, so I get better results with sin in raid
hollow spear
Yeah I just made the swap because I'm hella bored of sin
lilac stag
Nodoze is the biggest obstacle playing assa
hazy breach
But then you lose all prio
Nah you dont, strike still does a lot
And BP doesnt do that much less than evis 🙃
And you still coup
fallow nimbus
- autohits and unseen
hollow spear
During cds, sub feels like outlaw. Outside, it feels like sin.
Okay, maybe even slower than sin 😅
lilac stag
slower
drowsy moon
I do like 2.6m at start but it kinda falls to 1 million in the end basically I suck at keeping my dmg from droppinf
fallow nimbus
That's why cd windows are so important
hazy breach
Possible youre not doing your burst properly as well. Its very important to get those windows down perfectly
drowsy moon
I can sent some logs if anyone wants to help out