When we were just lads
#subtlety
woeful barn
alpine wraith
nice
iron fjord
sly shore
silken court
lilac stag
assa has always been the more straight forward rogue spec. you still had to understand rogue. sub was typically nightmare fuel, and outlaw pushes the limits of arthritis
alpine wraith
reminds me of my hard fough battles with grimzyo in palace
i was 100 or 0
1v1 battle
lilac stag
ignore the fact there was only 4 and 3 parses
GZ
alpine wraith
and well there were like 2 or 3 private loggers i thin k
oh while looking for my old pfp i found some cool things
woeful barn
lol
cinder axle
sin is better + maybe u dont have the needed gear for sub
upbeat sorrel
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
edgy zenith
alright someone give me the rundown on AoE/M+ trickster now: shuriken storm second global in SoD for FW, how many targets are we BP?
and how many targets shuriken storm, or never? in cds
woeful barn
Yeah I’m jk
edgy zenith
(im also jk)
woeful barn
In the grand scheme of things son. We are all shit
Based
Fuu has a write up on target count tho p sure I’m looking
lilac stag
and how many targets shuriken storm, or never? in cds
trickster at 4 it is worth with fw and to get DM once and at 5+ always if FW is up
woeful barn
It is still 5+ then nice
woeful barn
Ty
edgy zenith
trickster at 4 it is worth with fw and to get DM once and at 5+ always if FW is ...
still 3 targets out of CDs?
edgy zenith
i do, is trickster 2?
woeful barn
I wasn’t asking
woeful barn
lol
edgy zenith
because those are different normally
woeful barn
I spam detection and feint
edgy zenith
i am NOT pressing backstab at 4 targets
ur trolling me
someone who isn't trolling me come help pls
lilac stag
you are for flawless
woeful barn
Um akshually
alpine wraith
yea you storm outside dance then you stab if flawless falls off
until it goes up again
alpine wraith
all targets
woeful barn
5
edgy zenith
wat
alpine wraith
storm begins at 2 if you meant outside dance of course
edgy zenith
ty
alpine wraith
but the stab if flawless falls off is target independent
alpine wraith
for deathstalker you still spend witness outside dance and SoD even in st too
lilac stag
bro thinks he’s getting flawless back in one stab
alpine wraith
well usually it does not take super long but you can be unlucky
uneven fern
u are getting baited
lilac stag
No
uneven fern
5
alpine wraith
after you put out ruptures if they survive long enough
woeful barn
Bongo cat is wild
Ima use that one
@alpine wraith is your stream muted I’m not getting audio
digital aspen
checked pins, im not very familiar with all the apl tech talk etc... do we still have to use custom apl for mandate to sim correctly?
lilac stag
no
alpine wraith
basically now hc mandata is almost the same as mythic contract
and M mandate is above everything by a bit
if used correctly
edgy zenith
bro on god I said "wait since we're DS now does that make mandate better than everything else?" and I got a no from Eleem
grr...
something about the timing or something
edgy zenith
yeah, Eleem said it's worse timing now or something
so it's not as good as it used to be on DS
timid pulsar
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cursive vapor
we don't play tornado in m+?
alpine wraith
you can play it
upper narwhal
tornado in M+ is fine
alpine wraith
but it is annoying
upper narwhal
plays like shit but dmg wise it's fine
cursive vapor
ahh right its the choice between tornado and vt i forgot
vale pine
we don't play tornado in m+?
its optional, especially on trickster
the spell became more of a filler than a burst spell
zenith hollow
do you always want to sec tech first finisher in dance or only when blades is off cd?
alpine wraith
almost always
flint parrot
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
idle aurora
alpine wraith
i have it standalone and use it as i open
but some people have it on flag
i like it to have alone so it is more comfortable to do the 45º-60º angle switch to get better spawns
worn cape
Heey guys, I am new here, can someone explain why sub rogue is not supported for WoWAnalyzer?
alpine wraith
second intermission?
clever delta
yes
alpine wraith
think you can because it is nature dmg but im not 100% sure if you need to 1 sec cloak it
for it to not impale you
sly shore
Heey guys, I am new here, can someone explain why sub rogue is not supported for...
Because it's annoying to develop for on a spec like sub
And no one wants to do it
worn cape
I see, that's too bad.
stoic granite
i hate coup de grace, got me killed on queen Ansurek a few times...
sinful sluice
i hate coup de grace, got me killed on queen Ansurek a few times...
this is the main reason im trying to learn assa for mythic raids at least
wiping entire raid by pressing evis feels really bad
short radish
just play DS then 🙃
short radish
wiping entire raid by pressing evis feels really bad
yeah but it's funny when you coup into the boss on rashanan and you have the poison wave
lucid jackal
I like trickster more but the main fun parts of sub (imo) are still there
If anything, I like it more, because of the very minor annoyances that trickster brings
I rarely died to the charge but the times i did were extremely frustrating
sinful sluice
idk, my sub dmg is kinda really sad and miserable to look at
short radish
just delete teh charge
sinful sluice
so im just doing assa for raids now
short radish
dunno why its there
lucid jackal
krill issue I fear but understandable
short radish
i blame everyone asking for DFA
lucid jackal
Sin is really good too
short radish
now we get DFA at home
sinful sluice
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/kr/아즈샤라/야채해적#boss=2920
can anyone take a quick look at my sub rotations
not sure why i have such low dmgs
lucid jackal
Sub is broken 
strange chasm
2.6mil overall for me in ara 15
lucid jackal
Sub was already very good, it did not need a 5% buff
almost 6% buff
And while having funnel is helpful sometimes, having more "vomit damage" is also extremely good
strange chasm
enhance 2.8mil with pi
lucid jackal
Like in a big pull u can just BP and do mega damage
hazy breach
Idk still feel like trickster is better
lucid jackal
Idk still feel like trickster is better
in general or in dungeons
hazy breach
Dungeons specifically
strange chasm
done both and i think trick is better
the cdr is just so much nicer when you are chain pulling
steel zinc
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vestal escarp
sod uptime by spamming strike in dance
swift tinsel
In sims DS beats Trickster by 1% in ST and Trickster beats DS in dslice by ~4% for me, I dig it
sharp lark
i tried a key ad Deathstalker and it was really meh to me
lucid jackal
with the mark bug
what is mark bug
hazy breach
At the start of the expac you could reduce your mark count below 3 with darkest night up
hazy breach
Ie if you had DN up and went strike > sectech > you'd be at 2 marks
shrewd lantern
cant consume mark stacks while you have DN buff
the fact this is still a thing
hazy breach
Now you cant proc the mark in any way until you use DN, and it will leave you at 3 charges instead of 2.
uneven fern
ye it barely affects sin at all but makes sub feel like complete shit
so ur gonna get ignored until like
11.1 at minimum
maybe the entire xpac
lock in
uneven fern
fatebound is okay i think
and trickster is okay minus coup having a charge for some reason
vestal escarp
idk bro stormbringer is like giga residentsleeper
what up with praising shammy hero tree
shrewd lantern
i mean at least they have 2 playstyles
graceful crown
ha-ha-how's it going, bros?
shrewd lantern
i havent played any classes except dh and rogue
dh tree kinda ass
same dev though
hexed bluff
Dev is kind of ass as they only have one viable tree
strange chasm
strange chasm
happy
sly shore
real
prisma wave
Aldrachi is fun imo
shrewd lantern
so is aldrachi
prisma wave
aldrachi is not inherently flawed - you may not like it but its not flawed
However, tying 85% of a trees damage power to your major defensive CD is an inherent flaw design.
teal night
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
eager locust
Is trickster still better in M+?
Heard some people saying Trickster is better on sims but DS is better in reality
Is that true?
brisk onyx
I don’t think so
radiant haven
would anyone be willing to look at a m+ log and tell me why im so energy starved?
besides the downtime yes ik its supposed to be, but im below healer sometimes outside of cds
uneven scarab
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
lilac stag
Is trickster still better in M+?
Yes. Plays smoother, CDs recycle a bit faster. play whichever you enjoy more (trickster).
short radish
besides the downtime yes ik its supposed to be, but im below healer sometimes ou...
press rupture
tribal blade
you actually lose so much cdr playing RS
radiant haven
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you...
im aware of this but i refuse to believe i should be below the healer
wind canopy
You are if you don't have major CDs or Dance
radiant haven
thats insane
wind canopy
I mean, you can't be both insanely strong in CDs and out of them.
If you did, you'd have your CDs nerfed. And that's how you get a flat-lined profile like outlaw
radiant haven
at least sin i feel useful outside of cds
but i like sub alot
just bad rn i guess
i am
wind canopy
I mean, in keys, sure. You can use your bleeds to just have infinite energy. But there's a cost for it
radiant haven
i do rupture
radiant haven
short radish
well
looking at first pull
where you pop all your cooldowns
then i assume you get stunned or soemthing
short radish
because youre afk for like 10 seconds 
sometimes pulls do happen though
where you just do poop
swift tinsel
you can cloak or vanish overgrowth if that's what stunned you
wind canopy
Did you not have Cloak available?
Yeah, I was gonna say, could save the vanish in case you do get targetted
swift tinsel
that's what I typically do and it deletes that mechanic
short radish
also in m+ i tend to do quick opener
swift tinsel
bc you can storm and don't need premed
radiant haven
i just wanna know about the energy im aware i had a cd
its my 2nd day as sub
ever
swift tinsel
Energy will feel meh outside of dance
short radish
yeah
radiant haven
like after cds spreading ruptures alone takes forever
spec feels amazing during cds i just didnt know if th elows were supposed to be that low
swift tinsel
Yeah, its the tradeoff
radiant haven
bc sin i feel like i am still a class outside cds with caustic
swift tinsel
if you execute your burst well your damage is fucking insane
wind canopy
Again, there's a trade off with sin. And that's your ST is awful
Unless you pull mobs onto a boss or something
radiant haven
i guess i just get used to literal afk sometimes it feels so wrong
again i am ass i just picked it up but it just feels wierd
downtime
swift tinsel
You get used to it, def feels weird at first
wind canopy
Every spec has a weakness
radiant haven
well yeah of course. just not used to the weakness being physical donwtime. usually a trade off for st or aoe or funnel
tepid trellis
i guess i just get used to literal afk sometimes it feels so wrong
it is absolute bis being able to scratch yo ass between actions
its goated
tribal blade
its like 55 energy
goddamn did they nerf storm's energy again
radiant haven
its 45
wind canopy
But yeah, resting in between CDs is really nice. Just maintain the buffs you need while figuring out your next plan of attack
tribal blade
that tier set was really cool, it just sucked ass because of the rng aspect
still quartz
👀
swift tinsel
Lol I had a vid at one point where I had like 70% blades uptime on a kill bc of that set
was actually stupid
tepid trellis
one of my rank 1s from that season
wind canopy
Hooray infinite dance and SB uptime...
swift tinsel
holy shit lmao
tepid trellis
on worm boss
swift tinsel
yeah I think that's the one I had the same percent uptime on
strange chasm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
wind canopy
I don't miss those days
wind canopy
Or just buff sub
hybrid prism
ye, I always hate that about blizz's philosophy. If something is way better than everything else, everything else should be buffed to its level. Unless its broken and not working as intended of course. Then that spec still feels great, but everyone else is brought up to its level.
tepid trellis
its gonna feel less great when its suddenly not 40% ahead
as long as gameplay isnt touched
but only dmg
but unfortunately for alot of people doing the highest dmg is what makes something fun
edgy zenith
wait, why does trickster have better dance CDR in keys? aren't you pressing storm at 5+ targets whichi s like every single pull?
trickster only gets better dance cdr because of coup, right?
or am I missing something?
like sure, you get better dance CDR on bosses, definitely. but is it really noticable outside of bosses?
indigo crest
Is sub the hardest spec?
edgy zenith
dunno about hardest, but definitely up there
also depends on what you find hard. if you are worried about mechanically "complex" specs. fire mage is quite mechanically complex. sub is pretty easy mechanically, just a lot of moving parts you have to keep track of
hybrid prism
but only dmg
Well when you are hitting for 1.5 million with an ability and then you notice you are hitting for 1.1 million with that same ability, it feels like shit. If you buff everyone else, you feel exactly the same, but they all feel better as well.
tribal blade
wait, why does trickster have better dance CDR in keys? aren't you pressing stor...
because coup gives more cdr
edgy zenith
because coup gives more cdr
yeah but you aren't using shadowstrike or backstab
on AoE
tepid trellis
Well when you are hitting for 1.5 million with an ability and then you notice yo...
its all gonna be relative to everything else around
edgy zenith
how often do you really use coup?
tribal blade
yeah but you aren't using shadowstrike or backstab
only striking in dance
and you only backstab to proc flawless
other than those 2 things you're spamming storm
edgy zenith
I haven't played it since BP changes, but I would imagine you are rarely pressing shadowstrike
wait I think you storm at 5+ targets, no?
even in CDs
tribal blade
can double check, maybe stuff changed and i missed it
hybrid prism
Is sub the hardest spec?
It depends. I think it’s up there as one of the hardest specs in the game. I think rogue is one of the harder classes period and that’s why we are the second least played class. A lot of people don’t want to put in the effort to learn it optimally so they don’t play it. Once you do figure it out it feels so cool. We’re built different.
indigo crest
@hybrid prism my boys are challenging me to play the hardest class/spec and theyre saying sub rogue, so i send it on sub rogue?
tribal blade
pretty sure anyway. talked about it with Hacha earlier today
my understanding is it's strike once to consume premed and 1 rotten stack, then storm once to consume 2nd rotten and spread FW to all targets, and then spam strike for the rest of dance
if you don't spam strike you lose out on a lot of UB strikes
hybrid prism
<@212534255836725268> my boys are challenging me to play the hardest class/spec ...
I would say it’s one of the harder ones to learn and play well for sure. Like everything though, once you get the hang of it, it’s muscle memory.
edgy zenith
my understanding is it's strike once to consume premed and 1 rotten stack, then ...
that was why I asked, but I'm like 99% sure hacha said to use storm in CDs at 5+ targets
hybrid prism
Plus we are the coolest class and spec period, so that too
edgy zenith
doesn't make sense to not use UB
tribal blade
maybe something changed and i missed it
hybrid prism
Your name is literally prophet, you are supposed to know these things before they happen
edgy zenith
trickster at 4 it is worth with fw and to get DM once and at 5+ always if FW is ...
@tribal blade
edgy zenith
<@212534255836725268> my boys are challenging me to play the hardest class/spec ...
sub rogue or fire mage imo. shout out to havoc as well. havoc is fairly hard to play perfectly robotlike sim rotation during raid fights
I also think 95% of all Havoc players are GIANT griefers
and don't know what they are doing
indigo crest
Thanks for the inputs guys
edgy zenith
because I see Fragnance on Havoc and it's on another level compared to any other Havoc player
can't say that same thing with any other spec in the game
tepid trellis
fire mage? 
edgy zenith
Frostfire Fire is p complicated
gotta track like 6 things
and it just became meta so
used to be sleeper as Spellslinger
Sunfury*
but more complicated now
and Arcane just got ez af bc of spellslinger instead of Sunfury
and mage is hardest class for defensives/utility/etc.
so
alpine wraith
that was why I asked, but I'm like 99% sure hacha said to use storm in CDs at 5+...
that was as deathstalker they are a bit diff vs trickster
alpine wraith
trickster you still use strike in dance once to consume rotten then storm once to get FW then you keep striking but now bp
instead of evis except when you get coup then you evis to consume it
it is easier than it seems
alpine wraith
yea just once to get the crit and get FW yes
alpine wraith
that is deathstalker at 3+ 2+ with witness up
trickster has no bongos
lost them in panama
edgy zenith
gotcha, thanks hacha
tribal blade
jesus 639 insignia is a 1% dps increase over 639 tailspinner for DS in st
didn't even realize until i simmed it
how much DS hates crit
tepid trellis
nothing personal kid
tribal blade
nothing personal kid
in before "L2 press feint"
edgy zenith
that talent is soooo troll
the amount of times people would just get lasered by Princess out of nowhere during prog bc of that
wide magnet
feint?
tepid trellis
the fact that it procced on me at full hp and brought me down to 60%
avg human reaction speed is less than 0.6 sec
just pot
bozo
skill issue ong
wide magnet
True.
mystic ether
!guide
tribal blade
avg human reaction speed is less than 0.6 sec
joke's on you, i have the reaction speed of an 80 year old geriatric patient
tepid trellis
lots of fancy words for someone dying to skill issue
tribal blade
they call me the thesaurus
lilac stag
joke's on you, i have the reaction speed of an 80 year old geriatric patient
Maybe you should bind feint to symbols then.
tribal blade
Maybe you should bind feint to symbols then.
nah fuck that haha
i woulda been fine if i was in a real key
but just weekly 10 and i was zoning out after 3 hours of wiping on court
mystic ether
Is Trickster still better than DS for M+?
tribal blade
i love the dopamine hit of opening vault
tribal blade
Is Trickster still better than DS for M+?
they're both good
tepid trellis
yes
tribal blade
oh shit speed is hard gapping everyone
what a chad
oh and casual is running with a new team
wide magnet
it's not worth to waste the second rotten proc to ensure fw before sectec on large target counts
?
tepid trellis
sectech is like 80% shadow
wide magnet
yea
wasn't immediately sure of the breakdown
because details only shows it as physical
i'm mid key rn rofl
i figured it was something like sectec not showing akaari's soul on details
tepid trellis
so like 12% more dmg on the physical hit aint all that much
tepid trellis
no clue, ive always delayed it for after sectech
in my head it makes 0 sense to use it before
dont know why it uses them together on AoE
would be an eleem/armin question
wide magnet
yeah i was under the impression it did not work on akaari's soul
phys hit must be that important on mt
tepid trellis
yes blades only works on the physical part
but it doesent do that much
so i dont really know why it would be worth it
wide magnet
unno..
tribal blade
so i dont really know why it would be worth it
might be some really tiny increase
tepid trellis
eh pretty sure 1 extra bp is more dmg
but eh
im to lazy to do apl work anymore
im too deep into lost ark atm
i cant help but turn on my tc brain in that game either
alpine wraith
the extra strike/bp is more dmg than first hit of sec tech
also you get more time on higher DM stacks and blades works with autos now kinda
tribal blade
im too deep into lost ark atm
i'm actually in the same boat kinda, i stopped pushing this week
just gonna chill
fallow nimbus
I never started pushing keys, top that
tribal blade
I never started pushing keys, top that
big brain
alpine wraith
i dont even have all 10s
just do the same mists/nw/dawmbreaker every week
maybe boralus
fallow nimbus
I did a +12 by accident, i have failed you guys 
cloud rover
fallow nimbus
Dawn weekly is best weekly
keen dome
I love all the different ways it can somehow go.
Massive DPS variance and weird stuff happening. It's a fascinating dungeon when it's incredibly linear.
covert anchor
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
cursive vapor
guys whats the difference between gloomblade and backstab? and why gloomblade in delves?
vale pine
gloomblade does a bit more damage and does not require you to stand behind the enemy
lilac stag
I did a +12 by accident, i have failed you guys <:pepehands:757566347558387803>
Pusher. I don’t even have my portals yet. Just vault 10s.
fallow nimbus
lilac stag
Hmm. I need to make that with 0s
keen dome
Yes, that'd rule
lilac stag
I shall add it to the list.
alpine wraith
there was one with 0 1 and 2 i think
lilac stag
I had a hachadino side quest
alpine wraith
im suprised you made it that fast
keen dome
It is very cute
haughty mural
also you get more time on higher DM stacks and blades works with autos now kinda
more autoattacks 
let me get my haste gear ready
warning signs angle
tribal blade
plush roost
Leaked sub rogue tier set for tww s2.
Haste reduces the Cooldown of Shadow Dance, up to 20%. Also 2 Secret Technique's still can't be fit into our next Stat Boosting Trinket, sorry Deathstalkers.
4pc Backstab grants 1% haste, at 5 stacks. Your next Backstab does 50% increased damage.
Dev note: You will take PV and you will like it.
alpine wraith
tbh if haste gave reduced GCD for sub people would trip their eyeballs
plush roost
It would make gearing all 3 specs easier at least
alpine wraith
because you could now tornado with full cp and enter dance and do 5 finishers ina row
and also use SoD because shadowcraft refuns come and you can expend them before next refresh
plush roost
On the real tho, Tier sets have to be hero talent based now right?
alpine wraith
unlikely
plush roost
Like why add these new things and do nothing with them
Probably not but I could see like Each Unseenblade/Deathstalkers mark grants 1/.5 cdr to shadow dance and secret technique as an idea
Idk i just hope they're interesting and not just you do more damage after pushing this button in your normal rotation
lilac stag
2pc: dance cdr increased by .2
4pc: replicating shadows bug no longer happens
Hire me bliz.
plush roost
Why stop there?
2 pc, replicating shadows bug never happens
4pc, replicating shadows spreads to 3 targets. The bug has been reintroduced.
vale pine
2p: rupture spreads to 10 targets
4p: when you cast evis, you apply rupture
plush roost
2pc, rupture has a 33/66/100% chance of duplicating itself as a shadowed rupture but it will never line up for your parse
Hmm
vale pine
i think you played season 3 df ^^
plush roost
How could you tell! Hehe
alpine wraith
and then you wipe
tribal blade
tbh if haste gave reduced GCD for sub people would trip their eyeballs
haste would unironically become the best stat
up until a certain breakpoint
i imagine it would be something like "as soon as you hit X% haste you can fit in Y number of gcds into dance"
tribal blade
2p: rupture spreads to 10 targets
4p: when you cast evis, you apply rupture
i actually kind of like this as a tier set (probably not spreading to 10 targets)
vale pine
ye should be "all enemies" not 10
tribal blade
rupture spreading should become faster in general for sub baseline
hazy breach
ye should be "all enemies" not 10
Everybody wants to be my enemy
tribal blade
Everybody wants to be my enemy
in the process of rewatching S2
tribal blade
Delete rutpure. Bring abck nightblade.
a reworked nightblade would be cool
keen dome
I'm not sure what it should do. But I like the idea of it being something we use to amp our finishers somehow. Can't just be Rupture But Different.
Every enemy with Nightblade on them takes a tick of damage whenever you eviserate an enemy with it on them I dunno
clever delta
started playing sub on silken for first time
haughty mural
I'm not sure what it should do. But I like the idea of it being something we use...
so you are target locked again ?
clever delta
and what a beast spec if you make your cds right
lilac stag
rework assa to be a dot spec. Get rid of the damn dot on sub.
haughty mural
make it so it can only be active on 1 enemy
make it do massive damage with an interaction with dance(because finisher )
and probably make it cleave per tick with replicating
so you dont have to multidot
keen dome
so you are target locked again ?
oh nooo
good point
DoT spec. Gun spec. Finisher spec.
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
haughty mural
i mean if they want us to have atleast one maintenance thing going on atleast make it only usable on 1 target so we dont have to multidot
keen dome
I do like the idea of a maintenance thing but it should feed into the est of our kit in some form
haughty mural
i posted it some other day i think, but i thought about smth like that:
Nightblade - Only useable on one target at a time. Finishing move that infects the target with shadowy energy, dealing massive Shadow damage over time. Deals its damage faster while Shadow Dance is active. If an enemy dies while afflicted by your Nightblade, you regain energy based on its remaining duration. Lasts longer per combo point.
Replicating Shadows - Periodic Damage from your Nightblade erupts, dealing 20% damage to nearby enemies. Reduced beyond x targets.
lilac stag
remove snd from finishers. Add mastery back to it.
Donezo
if you have to have a dot, go the route with torghast. Strike applies it.
haughty mural
didnt play much SL
just rupture applies on strike ?
cursive vapor
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
sullen hare
Just do %hp on-death damage like sepsis did in torghast ezpz
keen dome
I'd also like to see them look at Poisons in general.
Because they're nice, but a relic of the past. You could do some fun stuff there.
sullen hare
Torghast was kind of a hot mess at times
fair anchor
Change rupture for nightblade and replace the useless talent of your choice for "Caustic Rupture" or "Rupture spatter", take your pick 
woeful barn
Could spice it up and add a finisher that has a nice 8yd range or so with a nice dash effect. Might even make it hit for 50% more than evis.
They’ll be like “we hear you so we are bringing back MfD as a capstone talent”
sullen hare
I have been killed a non-zero number of times by coup
fathom gazelle
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
median nacelle
rogue just got a rework, this is what ya'll get for the next 3 xpacs minimum
haughty mural
dagumm.. Fel Hammer toxicity swooshing over here
hollow pawn
Hey, my transmitter is desyncing with flag. was this always a thing or did somthing change?
hollow pawn
oooooh true, thank you. i was freaking out
lilac stag
dagumm.. Fel Hammer toxicity swooshing over here
It always does
haughty mural
lilac stag
yes that’s the apm they want sub to be every time havoc is shit
haughty mural
sly shore
rogue just got a rework, this is what ya'll get for the next 3 xpacs minimum
REWORK
REWORK
lilac stag
REWORK
sullen hare
[beetlejuice appears]
plush roost
Realz appears, "showtime!"
Warning Signs: 6% -> 8% haste.
"See ya!"
swift tinsel
lmao
sullen hare
I completely forgot about that very real very legal talent
swift tinsel
lol Night Terrors/Pace
Isn't PE only taken in the delve build or something like that
hazy breach
Pe, warning sign, gloomblade, imp sht, replicating, veiltouched and gloomblade are all roughly the same power level
So its mostly pathing that decides which one of those we take
latent finch
At silken court i see alot of logs holding dances a very long time whats the reason for that? To have enough for intermissions with cds?
strange chasm
You send cds into damage amp
hazy breach
Probably during the shield intermissions where you stop damage
latent finch
You stop dmg in the intermission to get cd timings right or is it again some weird spell que stuff from the bosses?
plush roost
Mostly cd timings, theres literally nothing happening during intermissions
Wheeee i go in a circle with my buds
topaz agate
@hazy breach what should my m+ breakdown look like as DS sub
vale pine
!sheet
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
BP should be top in damage usually as ds
sly shore
<@212854714197344256> what should my m+ breakdown look like as DS sub
damn if only there was someone who played it and could tell you
who is also in the same guild as you
and plays rogue
alpine wraith
that pokemon is not pikachu
cursive vapor
Is there any Situation in trickster sub where you wanna use storm/bp in single target boss fights in m+? Or thats a total no go?
sly shore
Nope, never in single target
pliant topaz
Nope, never in single target
we dont like to talk about it but before the 20% buff it was a 0.1% dps loss for a few strategic BP's to hold coup better for flag alignment. it happened llike maybe 3-4 bps a fight
with the 20% buff though hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder if i should look at it again
sly shore
Yeah I remember
Probably should
But I don't think you play deathstalker in raid still
with the bug
💀
pliant topaz
I was actually telling fuu and eleem, but after the bug being added to simslooking at deathstalkerr distribution it looks funny
swift tinsel
It's only simming ~1% ahead in st for me so I'm sticking with trickster for raid
pliant topaz
you can litearlly RNG into getting turbo fucked
for fun
look at the fucking long tail on the left
swift tinsel
yeah that floor is looking pretty funny lol
pliant topaz
I atleast enjoyed raid logging as trickster, after one night of reclear with deathstalker I now have 4 weeks of excuses lined up to skip even raid logging
swift tinsel
lmfao based
swift tinsel
I played ds last week and it felt space aids compared to trickster so thankfully I'm not forced into it since we're mostly alt gearing atm
edgy zenith
Wait why are we dooming on DS in raid? What bug? I thought it felt pretty damn strong
pliant topaz
I was actually telling fuu and eleem, but after the bug being added to simslooki...
like compared to other specs with similar rng as deathstalker, they appear a lot less skew, and if they are, the skew is towards the front, so u can just randomly pop off and do great
insteda of randomly break your own ankles
pliant topaz
Wait why are we dooming on DS in raid? What bug? I thought it felt pretty damn s...
strong is different than good though
strong means number high
pliant topaz
good means i would like to log in and pllay the game because of it
sly shore
it's going to skew so hard
pliant topaz
its not just cdr
im pretty sure i know what it is
during beta when we finished the apl's i worked with fuu and added some very specific conditionings around darkest night
to improve the tail behaviour
but since koji added the bugs in, im pretty sure i wouldl need to do that again
like without looking, if i had to guess why this was happening was because it is getting darkest night during pandemic of rupture, then dance comes off cd, now its dancing without rupture or something, or maybe delaying dance to get rupture back up and losing an entire dance cast for it
edgy zenith
Ooo speaking of that situation: what IS best to do? DN, then dance and just apply rupture in dance or leave rupture off target and reapply after dance?
pliant topaz
idk
you have 2 options really
one is to refresh rupture early, which would give u the cdr, which would mean u get to dance with darkest night
the other option is delay dance
which might be kill time dependant
hard to know
but that means u would need to check for dance comign up, then look at your mark stacks, and if youre going to want to dance when rupture is in pandemic and u get darkest night u woulld need to refresh rupture early
which is a lot to track
edgy zenith
Is rupture that strong? I always feelycrafted it and just had a ruptureless target for the dance and reapplied during symbols when dance fell off
pliant topaz
lets take a look
from fuus sheet on deathstalker. averaage rupture hit is around 113k, average corrupt the blood is 63k.
sod uptime is 62%
dance uptime 34%
then roughly hteyre doing 95k and 50k ish per tick normally.
which means in dance + sod (lets assume to be roughly 70% amp), they would then be doing 250k per tik
if youre letting them drop for a 250k evis outside of dance then youre fucking up massively no?
oh i forgot the 20% tier buff to rupture too
edgy zenith
Yeah, probably best to just reapply early not in pandemic
But that is definitely pretty hard to see coming
pliant topaz
u would need to track your sectech cd + mark stacks + know if youlll be dancing or not
dry plank
In DS we are trying to spend darkest night and sectech buffed by supercharger inside dance?
hazy breach
For the non-flag dances yes
For the big bursts you cant really guarantee it well as it often delays your burst too much
dry plank
Thanks
turbid saddle
do u use ALL clear witnesses procs?
like in opener after first dance ive noticed there are times that i get p sht procs and it just chains togheter with clear the witnesses
spending more time outside of dance in opener but u go back in dance with 1 stack of deathstalker
actually ignoring it sounds better
hazy breach
do u use ALL clear witnesses procs?
Only outside symbols
rare radish
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
turbid saddle
yeah so u do ignore it on opener
and back to back dance
do u also not cold blood on first secret tech cus its low flag stacks?
or does it not matter
hazy breach
Cb on second sectech is a bit better
Because more flag stacks and more flawless stacks as trickster
turbid saddle
makes sense ty
edgy zenith
yeah so u do ignore it on opener
it's a slight gain to use on opener. SS>Flag>Evis>Vanish>Storm>Rupture>etc
apparently it's ONLY a gain if it crits. but neutral if it doesn't. so VERY miniscule difference
turbid saddle
it's a slight gain to use on opener. SS>Flag>Evis>Vanish>Storm>Rupture>etc
that is not what i was meaning to say
i mean that if u ignore it between first and second dance
and it seems u just ignore it if symbols is up
hazy breach
Technically if you dont have inev specced its fine to use it outside dance but inside symbols
But thats very niche
Strike > ctw storm > backstab in terms of power
But extending symbols is better than the extra damage from storm
sharp oriole
are we playin deathstalker now in raid or trickster ?
hazy breach
Whatever you prefer tbh. Deathstalker is like 2-3% ahead on sims
But it ends up being roughly the same anyway
upbeat sorrel
Ok I figured out my problem my WA was only tracking the first half of flag I was wondering how people were fitting in 2 sec techs in 12s
swift tinsel
You can fit two in ~14ish which you should aim for in transmitter
def easier to do as trickster than ds bc of the increased cdr
realistically it should be like 9-10secs between them
upbeat sorrel
i see
i think i was like 1-2 finishers off of the 12s initial flag buff
so should be around that time i guess
swift tinsel
can get unlucky refunds sometimes which will throw it off
leaden prairie
hi
why st first finisher even with deathstalker
or is that wrong and deathstlaker goes back to sending as second finisher
swift tinsel
I think its to get it on cd for better cdr value/fitting 2 in transmitter
sly shore
or is that wrong and deathstlaker goes back to sending as second finisher
can't fit 2 sectech in cd's otherwise
that are mega buffed
leaden prairie
okok
errant ferry
There is no world where I would ever run the mythic kyveza weapon in off hand with the mythic kyveza trinket right? Must be a dagger?
swift tinsel
only daggers ever
errant ferry
Kk
I’m honestly so annoyed I got the weapon haha I want to use it but I refuse to play outlaw
torn urchin
I’m honestly so annoyed I got the weapon haha I want to use it but I refuse to p...
why do you refuse
errant ferry
Because I’m bad at it
torn urchin
lethal gale
Got another one boys. job well done
alpine wraith
nice
errant cobalt
!wa
torn urchin
Got another one boys. job well done
still declines future sub rogues
hushed pendant
I haven't done any ptr is the new catch-up power ring worth anything or nah? Any ideas?
gritty knot
upbeat sorrel
small hemlock
Any roguey tips for court
hazy breach
Not really anything specific, besides you can cloak the green circles in p1 to not spawn any orbs
And you can precloak the grip to not get webbed (but you obviously shouldnt do this if when you want the webs)
fair stump
alpine wraith
you can cloak on p3 when you usually you would run away from boi to keep hitting him
lilac stag
We don’t play DS. 
candid field
Anyone got videos of high keys with both trickster and deathstalker since patch?
lilac stag
Outside of maybe Kush, Doubtful. Just press BP now.
weary kite
Yo boys is it true that the no parry for other melee got hotfixed on Trickster?
alpine wraith
who told you that
weary kite
A friend mentioned it, and I swore he was tripping I hadn't seen anything about that.
Thanks confirming xD
sly shore
dawn hinge
tried ds sub in 4/8 pug, insane damage
sikran fight length cucked probably
rest alligned so well
but damn how shitty it feels to miss trinket sectec by a milisecond
weary kite
NGL hitting a DS Mark crit that hits for 2.7 mil outside of CDs feels pree goood.
sly shore
and symbols
you must've been siting on capped charges for quite some time
r1 for example
dawn hinge
i'm a huge noob, just tried it
should start recording, i cant recall how it went at all
feels weird to think I'd sit on anything, but logs don't lie
lucid jackal
I'm like right on the cusp of bis rn
I need to figure out what I'm doing with my last few slots
Any consultants
Also whats with so many logs still being trickster?
short radish
because trickster is comfy
lucid jackal
I asked it before but what exactly is the bug
uneven fern
cant consume mark stacks while you have the darkest night buff
hazy breach
Back during launch you could have darkest night up > press strike > use darkest night evis (or sectech) > be at 2 marks
lucid jackal
ohhhhh
hazy breach
Now if you do that you end up with 3 stacks
And you dont get the mark damage for your darkest night
uneven fern
it also scuffs ur rotation if u have sectech available but cant press it because you desperately need to get the buggy dn off first
avoidable i think but its just clunky and annoying
lucid jackal
And you dont get the mark damage for your darkest night
Oh interesting
You dont even get the reapp damage
hazy breach
Nop the mark wont do any damage as long as darkest night is up
lucid jackal
U play trickster on what then, twister, silken, and queen?
hazy breach
Idk think you can play both on all bosses really
Court might be the main trickster one
glass python
is there a list of abilities we can macro together for cooldowns etc?
lucid jackal
None of them 
hazy breach
You can macro them together if you want but you'd still want them seperately bound anyway for other times so idk i dont see the point
uneven fern
i mean
even brood theres a big ds argument no
cus boss damage
from bp n singular focus shit goes crazy
lucid jackal
I don't think I will 
uneven fern
yeah based
lucid jackal
Walking into raid with a 7800x3d today
uneven fern
play trickster on the raw st fights to avoid shit gameplay anyway
uneven fern
then again you play trickster and you have RS bug
so like
maybe sub is just a bad spec
hazy breach
You can just not play RS
uneven fern
You can just not play RS
yeah true
hazy breach
Its like -0.1%
lucid jackal
Sub rn is so close to perfect
wind canopy
Walking into raid with a 7800x3d today
Was it the plastic that was shutting down your computer?
lucid jackal
Its like -0.1%
what do u drop
glass python
and am i right in assuming trickster is totally fine to play for ST council and basically m+ with all very similar/same build
lucid jackal
sectec
lucid jackal
Was it the plastic that was shutting down your computer?
yes 
hazy breach
Drop RS for imp sht
lucid jackal
glass python
kk ty for info, jumping over from the sin ship all season with the last buffs 😂
sucks to swap out myth track rings for stats but its what we goota do 😂
mystic minnow
so are we still only using BP in AoE outside of flawless form?
brisk onyx
Why dont they rework RS to avoid the bug lul
topaz raptor
why don't they just click the bugfix button
lucid jackal
Okay first few bosses on deathstalker
I keep missing my 2nd sectec cuz not enough shd
brisk onyx
thorny ridge
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
upbeat sorrel
can i drop rs in m+ build or no
pliant topaz
hi whatsup
pliant topaz
says the racoon
pliant topaz
i can
wind canopy
but also, without me? >:3
wind canopy
lucid jackal
hi whatsup
can u help me figure out bis
pliant topaz
cant u just do a top gear?
short radish
Drop RS for imp sht
i hate the abbreviation improved sht because my idiot brain keeps reading it as improved shit
pliant topaz
There too many variables
u can kinda jsut add all of them to the bot and itll tell you. realistically itll be different based on different scenarios. like aoe wants mastry/crit. single target wants mastry/vers. deathstalker probably wants more vers than mastery, trickster wants more mastery than vers its just different
depending on what u wanna do
lucid jackal
Well thats what I need help with!
I have 1st boss cloak/ovanax egg in vault
and I have a socket
I could take cloak, and then recraft my crafted gear on bracer
I also have a 2nd real dagger, I could drop ascendance
radiant haven
can someone explain what the RS bug is please?
tepid trellis
its bugs out shadowcraft
and will randomly fills your cps again consuming your sht stacks
tepid trellis
on single target yeah
radiant haven
ty
lucid jackal
on single target yeah
help
lilac stag
spark tusk
round latch
can u help me figure out bis
poe 2 in 3 days fam,wow deadge
lucid jackal
Not my question
lucid jackal
I don't come to video game forums to talk abotu how much I don't want to play the video game in question
lilac stag
You can still sim yourself. Lol
lucid jackal
Theres more to this game than raidbots
swift tinsel
What kind of content are you wanting to optimize for?
lilac stag
BotE really was better. 
swift tinsel
I'd personally take cloak over egg if you're already running contract/transmitter
and recraft bracers
lucid jackal
I specifically said many times with BOTE vs iris is that if you wanted to make a value judgement theres nothing really wrong with that, the issue was specifically people saying the sims were wrong and it performs much better
which was the incorrect part
lucid jackal
I'd personally take cloak over egg if you're already running contract/transmitte...
Probs what Ill end up doing
swift tinsel
dropping the haste/mastery bracers for vers/mastery and adding a bit of crit sounds like a decent tradeoff
swift tinsel
the giga haste tier head
lucid jackal
I have this helmet already
swift tinsel
it makes my stabby slightly faster stabby
Yeah that's a solid bet besides Whispering Mask
edgy zenith
okay, silken finally down. any sub gamers have some ansurek tips?
was watching kush's stream and watching his vods. nothing crazy it seems like
when do I use defensives though
like cloak specifically
does evasion work on web blades?
does cloak?
outside of P1 btw. cloak is going on webs in P1 obviously
lucid jackal
does evasion work on web blades?
No
lucid jackal
does cloak?
Yes
edgy zenith
flag 2 times in P1, first platform, start of P3 and then whenever it comes up again?
edgy zenith
like max combo point step flag type beat?
lucid jackal
Make sure u have cloak for wrest 2
lucid jackal
like max combo point step flag type beat?
Doesn't need to be that fast, but yeah, asap
Just make sure u have a step, target the dude that does the line, and step to it
I really need to upload my queen video since it breaks down everything
I guess theres still a market for it
edgy zenith
on first suck platform 1 you mean
?
step line guy and don't move right
and second platform I'm cloaking the first pull?
lucid jackal
and second platform I'm cloaking the first pull?
2nd wrest in shield break p1
round latch
I guess theres still a market for it
u should upload any vid,the more the better 🤘
lucid jackal
if u dont u just die so
edgy zenith
kk
lucid jackal
for root breaks u can do vanish > cloak > kill > vanish
and then u just eat the first wrest, cloak 2nd
step both ofc
tepid trellis
Feint doesn't work so
im like 99% sure it does
lucid jackal
Idk if it does but either way