subtlety

[leaden prairie]

by chance

[tribal blade]

outlaw mastery rework when

[leaden prairie]

it just need to scale off of the initial hit

like every other mastery in the game

the issue with outlaw mastery is that whenever you start doing more damage cause talents/etcs

mastery doesnt scale at all

so anytime you take a talent thats basically a "x does more damage", mastery also get worse

im pretty sure every other mastery in the game has some kind of scaling off of abilities so this doesnt happen

like sub is just finisher

[tribal blade]

i remember how it worked in like wod

[leaden prairie]

assa i think is bleeds

etc

[tribal blade]

where the % chance ot hit went up too

so in pvp as combat you would hard stack mast

[leaden prairie]

That doesn't really solve the issue tho

[tribal blade]

red buff>KS>dead person

yeah true

[leaden prairie]

Just make mastery a better stat but it can still fall off the same way

Like if you look at current talents, say like dispatcher

Scale the damage of dispatch a lot

But that doesn't interact with main gauche

[vestal escarp]

pirate talk

[leaden prairie]

So mastery just get worse

[tribal blade]

gotcha gotcha

[keen dome]

Shadowheart imo

[leaden prairie]

Shadowearth is just bugged tho

It's not supposed to be that bad

[short radish]

DO NOT SHIT TALK RIPOSTE
@regal snow

[worthy oxide]

How big is the impact of deathstslker changes? Really 5% on ST?

[regal snow]

Fimb is the governor of riposte he will come for you

[alpine wraith]

a bit more than 5%

[short radish]

rogue just needs a taunt button

[keen dome]

Agreed

[short radish]

and riposte will become meta

[keen dome]

Rogue tank

ROGUE TANK

[regal snow]

Me when I forget gouge exists

[short radish]

yaaas queen

[regal snow]

Absolutely gutted by the interrupt change

[keen dome]

Add a 4th Rogue spec. It's tank. Call it uh

[short radish]

riposte on that ghost week

w/e it was called

[keen dome]

R.. Rou.. Rank.

[upbeat sorrel]

we need a ranged rogue spec first

[short radish]

yeah

thats outlaw

[keen dome]

Why not both

[regal snow]

Feel like gouge needs a rework

[keen dome]

The first ranked tank

I am aware how much of an oxymoron it is and in theory any tank is a ranged tank if they run away enoguh

[upbeat sorrel]

no outlaw is the arthritis spec

[short radish]

fair

[worthy oxide]

So Sub is now definitiv stronger in ST over Assa?

definitly

[upbeat sorrel]

maybe

but maybe not

would we still play trickster on mythic silken court even after patch

deathmark on court is kinda annoying

[lilac stag]

maybe maybe not

[vale pine]

trickster angle

[gaunt charm]

just tell me to respec to sub and ill do it right away

[short radish]

respec to sub

[gaunt charm]

ok sir

[cerulean beacon]

truly inspiring (doing the same)

[thick field]

Do i have to learn deathstalker for raid now?

[upbeat sorrel]

Only for the single target fights!

[dawn hinge]

dear god, it feels so terrible to play

[hot plaza]

Guys is black powder used in m+ anymore please?

[median nacelle]

rarely, as trickster anyways

maybe if u pull 20 mobs

[hot plaza]

Ok thanks mate 👍

[scarlet heath]

I remember gouge being kinda goated on Outlaw in BFA

with Blind, Kidney, Cheap we were the ultimate cast cancelers

plus BtE used to stun too

what a time

[upbeat sorrel]

now everything just recasts

[scarlet heath]

[upbeat sorrel]

if you play deathstalker it says use on 2+ targets

[hot plaza]

I’m playing trickster mate 👍

[upbeat sorrel]

for trickster i think only when flawless form is not up

and 2+ target

and not during dance

[hot plaza]

Few comments above answered mate apparently rarely used unless pull size is around 20 👍

[hot plaza]

Yo mate how targets should rupture be kept on pls? Ty

[median nacelle]

if u have cds up i generally dont press rupture maybe twice with rupture spreading to nearby target talented

u just wanna send ur big cds and spam evis into biggest hp / prio target and let hero talent do the cleaving

get ur big boom cds going asap, spread ruptures outside of dance if the mobs are not about to die

[lilac stag]

12+. That may get reduced slightly with BP buff.

[hot plaza]

Thanks so much mate really appreciate your help 👍👍

[hot plaza]

Thanks mate so black powder is just a fraction better in big pulls? Yeah?

[lilac stag]

basically. You’re looking to get sectech and coup more than anything else.

[young path]

I’d highly recommend not casting BP aside as trickster…. Especially considering the recent buff

If u consider the first dance window, sectech into evis into potentially a coup u are sitting at stacks on stacks of flawless and dance macabre (giga ramping modifiers)

That all said and depending on situation, talenting tornado and pull size…. I promise u you can pull jaw dropping numbers with a BP tornado spam for that small 4ish seconds towards the end of that first dance window

Expecting even stronger numbers later today w/the hotfix

But I’m really excited to try dark brew death stalker today, I really hope it pulls big big numbers, otherwise I’m staying trickster I think… it’s just so smooth to play

(M+)

[vale pine]

trickster plays a lot nicer

but deathstalker is fine in m+

[young path]

It’s gonna be a hard choice for me assuming DS overtakes it in overall cleave…. Think I’ll only commit if it’s way ahead (which I don’t think it will be)

[vale pine]

ds is just annoying because of mark

and more rupture spreading

[gaunt charm]

so are we doing it right now?

[flint sundial]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[strange chasm]

DS will be going to the moon this patch

It'll probably be best on every single fight

Maybe not court

[hexed bluff]

Are the queens adds relevant enough for trickster to remain the go to as well?

Never mind, I guess the BP buff will be enough to make DS go boom boom on that fight

[strange chasm]

Yeah you just mark the target and prio cleave

Plus most of the ads on queen get taken out back by warriors

[hexed bluff]

True true

Fury go brrr

[vestal escarp]

I was having quite the fun doing keys as sub

I dont wanna swap to kekstalker

Chat hold me

[lilac stag]

I doubt you will in keys

The cdr on trickster too good

[lethal gale]

I just been testing on training dummies with ds/trickster and seems pretty close it terms of aoe unless im just playing ds completely wrong

[vestal escarp]

Honestly we dont even know what build to run

If 3sod or silent DB

[lethal gale]

yeah im just playing the DB one

[lilac stag]

you could sim builds with override

[vestal escarp]

We feelcraft in this homestead

[lilac stag]

I feel like DS is cancer

#honeyimhome

[vestal escarp]

It's boring and nasty

[lilac stag]

just need to run my 1 10 for vault

Tricky boy

[lethal gale]

yeah unless DS is just ahead by a lot then just play trickster

[vestal escarp]

Cant wait for details screenshots of first pull of wake tomorrow morning

"guys look"

[weary kite]

does ds win in two target now? no way right?

[lilac stag]

boys we did it

[vestal escarp]

Specifically?

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

Big knife

[edgy zenith]

I need Deathstalker build links

someone help

[hazy breach]

You swap trickster to deathstalker

[vestal escarp]

[hazy breach]

Can swap RS to imp sht if you want

[vestal escarp]

Rip db

[lilac stag]

goto wowhead

[vestal escarp]

""""plague"""" dmg

[little hornet]

replicating shadows for 2-target, gloomblade for single?

[wanton portal]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[edgy zenith]

Imp sht is more value for DS?

[hazy breach]

No

rs less value

[edgy zenith]

why?

wouldn't it be more since Lingering?

[lilac stag]

shadow dmg

[humble jolt]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[strange chasm]

When will we be able to sim the buffs later today?

[lilac stag]

ask raidbots

[severe prism]

when prio target i still spend on evis with DS right ?

like the 5% transfert damage is irrelevant

[wild hornet]

When I cast sectec, should I be trying to get an extra stack of danse before the clones hit (i.e. using bs instead of sstrike)

[edgy zenith]

you don't play around danse macabre anymore

[wild hornet]

Wait why

[edgy zenith]

it's a damage loss

[lilac stag]

cdr is more important than playing around danse

[wild hornet]

So an extra danse stack wont outweight a sstrike cdr?

Since i sometimes find myself holding onto sectec even when its back on cd

Usually when i have no other cds

[wind canopy]

You’re buffing ST by like 500-600k using a 70k backstab when you could hit for 800-900k with shadowstrike.

[upbeat sorrel]

are the patch updates in raidbots yet

[lilac stag]

Check raidbots?

[upbeat sorrel]

sometimes it says at the top but not seeing anything

[lilac stag]

Then likely not. Check their discord, or just add 5% to your sim

[upbeat sorrel]

5% juice

[lilac stag]

not juice. Shit. Just more dmg.

[edgy zenith]

okay, so how does supercharger work with DS? if I send a dance/sod window with 6s left on sectech, into evis and DN then procs

am I sending that DN or sectech on last supercharger stack

it's DN > everythign right?

would it have been better to just send a natty evis, get the DN proc ready. then go into dance window and then DN > sectech for the supercharger points?

okay, sims are saying always send sectech on the supercharger and delay using DN if you have to

unless the raidbots APL is cooked

any knowers?

[hazy breach]

Rupture itself does more damage as trickster

[hazy breach]

No BP

[hazy breach]

Always supercharge sectech

[edgy zenith]

so delaying DN is okay in that instance?

[hazy breach]

No

[edgy zenith]

wym no

[hazy breach]

you dont delay DN

Sim does it because the stupid ass bug still isnt implemented so its fine since its still counting down to 2 stacks

So dont delay it

[edgy zenith]

are we just depressed if we can't supercharge sectech then?

[hazy breach]

you always supercharge sectech

[edgy zenith]

or send dance window later after you get a DN ready?

like if you're on 1 stack of mark, 8s on sectech and full combo points and ready to send dance/sod, what are you doing

send natty evis, then go into dance window: use DN then sectech. or are you sending dance insta, using evis first global, proccing DN, being depressed and then sending a non-supercharged sectech

[hazy breach]

Natty evis

Because otherwise you wouldnt supercharge your sectech

[vale pine]

you always want to supercharge secret

[edgy zenith]

okay, so you do have to pay attention to deathstalker marks. if your sectech WOULD be ready for second supercharged point (CD less than 10s) BUT you have 1 mark stack, you gotta wait until you send one evis before you go into window, correct?

[open vortex]

do we change how we use transmitter w/ ds now, cause not getting the second sectec in it feels kinda bad

[lilac stag]

trigger it split second before sectech

[open vortex]

or am i just getting wf gapped on dummy

[edgy zenith]

you can get it in both I believe, think you're getting wf gapped

[tidal python]

Just use a different trinket so you don't have to worry about it /s

[open vortex]

ya i am, its super tight but if you get it like right before the first sectec it works

[edgy zenith]

it is super tight without wf, yeah

and this is why we should make wf shadow technique gen as baseline and remove wf and shadow technique interaction

[vale pine]

you want a shaman in raid

shaman buff op

[open vortex]

is it a gain if i evis first finisher in dance w/ DN up

[hazy breach]

always use DN immediately

[vale pine]

Evis has highest prio if you have the capstone proc (dn)

[round latch]

Idk if u aware but those hurt

like

rly hurt

[open vortex]

ya i know for some reason thought getting sectec first might edge out but thinking about it now kind of silly question

[round latch]

ik its not very relevant to pve but ive crit

over a bear with barkskin

[kind bluff]

wait r we swapping to DS?

[round latch]

2mil

in arena

[tidal python]

It's better on ST

[vale pine]

yes

we are switching to deathstalker on single target

[round latch]

why not m+ as well

is it still that far behind?

[lilac stag]

it's cancer

[round latch]

the only annoying thing i get is spreading rups on ur downtime

and couple of bugs

but im waiting for reset

they might fix it

(sniffin' massive amounts of hopium herE)

[open vortex]

i just realized that getting parried is back on the menu

[kind bluff]

hmmmm

[lethal gale]

Just did a couple 10s as DS it feels >>fine<< to me but trickster just feels way better and much more satisfying to play. Even on boss fights I didnt feel DS had a major gap or anything - maybe on much higher keys this matters more

[lilac stag]

It’s not if you play trickster.

[edgy zenith]

wait for M+ DS you use Dark Brew?

[fluid tusk]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lethal gale]

I was using DB

[edgy zenith]

and only 2 charges of SoD?

that sounds so gross

how much am I gonna hate my life using this:

[round latch]

u basicly lose dmg

no finality or db

[vale pine]

deathstalker is probably good in m+ too

[round latch]

ik my man,im 100% positive that it is

been testing some stuff and it PUMPS

[vale pine]

i think it will be dungeon dependent

some bosses don't work well with mark

[round latch]

yeah but why would sub have issues with it,it can apply it much faster,almost on demand

its not the 2min-oh-my-god-what-am-i-doing-now sin situation

[warm marlin]

Sub also doesn’t really care to hold vanish for accidents to put it back up

[deft oar]

so are we just BPing the whole time on court or is TS ahead on low count cleave

[vale pine]

its def. better than on assassination

[vale pine]

vanish is optional

[vale pine]

you bp "always", still means you evis for the capstone

ofc not on single target^^

[round latch]

kinda waiting to flex on our racoon that ''i told you so'' about the deathstalker buff for sub

called it 4 weeks ago that its coming

he's gonna nuke me but will be fun

😂

[lilac stag]

it’s not exactly surprising with them trying to make all hero talents viable.

it’s going to snow in January in Chicago. Shocking prediction

[round latch]

yup,its kinda obvious,ive been playing deathstalker sub in pvp so it made some sense

even now that most ppl play trickster even

[half comet]

is deathstalker M+ build still same

[round latch]

im waiting fuu's verdict on that as well^^

but should at least have finality

[hot plaza]

You guys use any burst macros for sub pls? Ty 😎👍

[weary kite]

Am I playing DS on court tonight or nah?

[vale pine]

maybe we get a trickster centric tier set if they buff ds atm

[lilac stag]

it's funny. running 8min HAC sims which have been decently good for Ovi. Tricky still wins even with override. DS slightly more prio dmg, but I think that its actually less with bug

I'll run it once or twice to see what the actual dmg looks like, but gonna swap back to tricky more than likely

[vale pine]

trickster should be better for ovi

[lilac stag]

just a for science

adds drop pretty quick so maybe more ST pulls ahead

[sick jackal]

which trinket would be our bis for m+?

[slate marlin]

transmitter

[sick jackal]

other than that

[jaunty heath]

Nothing

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/bo-katan-this-is-the-way-the-mandalorian-katee-sackhoff-star-wars-gif-19179943

[near rivet]

I think i've discovered the first combat use of shroud ever

Behold

[strange chasm]

The BP pad wouldn't be better?

With DS as opposed to trickster

[weary kite]

no way it stealths the homies but does it still give em the speed buff?

[swift tinsel]

someone roared at the same time and I'm pretty sure they don't stack

[lilac stag]

Doubtful. You’re likely getting 1 BP off in dance.

and they’re usually splat before 2nd dance.

[near rivet]

nah, it works only for you

but i've been starving movement speed there a lot

and self vanish actually works

[honest saddle]

so we bp 2 targets now?

[strange chasm]

Hmm I wonder if DS would be better than just for the ST

[near rivet]

it might work on other rogues who press vanish at the sime thou

[hot plaza]

Hey can flagellation and shadowblades be macroed together please along with trinket and pot ect? Ty

[honest saddle]

better to macro blades to dance

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't

you'd be in dance already and blades after sectech

[lilac stag]

We are the anti macro 7 cd spec

[swift tinsel]

Ideally you'd blades ~8sec after flag so they end around the same time

but yeah, macroing any of them together isn't a great idea

[hot plaza]

Ok Ty guys appreciate it 👍👍👍

[fair stump]

Annoying that we have to play DS

[swift tinsel]

I'm just gonna trickster otp

[fair stump]

How does DS change in ST?

Rotation wise

[swift tinsel]

add Storm for Clear the Witness, hard prio DN

[wind canopy]

Definitely do not do this.

[honest saddle]

what would I know. I only have world #1 parses

[fair stump]

send link

I want to see how I can improve

[honest saddle]

start with macroing blades and dance.

[fair stump]

Do we still play the same everywhere else?

[honest saddle]

tell me a time, you would blades without dance

tell me one time

[spare hazel]

would it be a big mistake for me to macro blades with flagellation, and macroing dance with symbols?

i feel like those two pairs of skills are always used together, right?

[swift tinsel]

You never press dance and blades at the same time

[fair stump]

I macro dance with symbols, but I still have them on separate buttons

[wind canopy]

You'd delay Blades a few seconds after Flag

[fair stump]

Wouldn't you lose one gcd worth of blades if your first finisher for supercharged is sectec?

[wispy bolt]

Can we expect a new opener graphic on wowhead or in here today? I haven’t been reading this for a min and I raid today

[swift tinsel]

macroing flag and blades together would cause you to lose out on a gcd of building since you finish first global after flag

[honest saddle]

optimal usage of blades is literally on the coldblood press before sec tech

[swift tinsel]

no, its after

[honest saddle]

yeah

after

[swift tinsel]

which

[fair stump]

i thought blades don't affect sectec dmg

[swift tinsel]

you never sectech unless you're in dance

so

you dance first, not at the same gcd you blades

[honest saddle]

so youre running it like /coldblood /blades /sectech?

[fair stump]

more like coldblood sectech blades

[honest saddle]

and cold blood is off gcd, so saying after cold blood is a mute point.

[swift tinsel]

that's not what I said

[honest saddle]

they would both go simultaneously

[spare hazel]

can you explain this

why do you never dane and blades at the same time? do the dmg buffs not stack?

[swift tinsel]

you don't macro them together

[honest saddle]

it all happen at the same time...

[spare hazel]

ok last question - why dont we hold rupture till we get supercharger to get a super rupture

or does that not work

[fair stump]

because its better to use it for evisc

[swift tinsel]

it only adds duration, not damage

[spare hazel]

ah ok

[swift tinsel]

Supercharger is for sectech and evisc

[half comet]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[uneven scarab]

Blades does not work on sectech either so casting it after is ideal for max duration

Or atleast at the same time basically

[winter sedge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[zealous narwhal]

!WA

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[narrow shadow]

Now we playing DS in M+?

[pliant topaz]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pliant topaz]

@hazy breach idk if youve looked at the buffs but uh... from the latest update

[hazy breach]

Ye

[pliant topaz]

time to spam bp in dungeons again

[honest saddle]

that would require us to play DS in dungeons

YUCK

[pliant topaz]

yep

[fair stump]

ew

I'd rather deal less dmg as trickster

[pliant topaz]

my 2 target sim is like 1% higher as deathstalker now lmfao

[honest saddle]

yeah

but it's not higher

not in reality

[pliant topaz]

and im not sure trickster fazed oversim is still in or not

[hazy breach]

Did you forget to remove the overrides

[pliant topaz]

im doing latest overrides arent in

[honest saddle]

I mean maybe it is better

[hazy breach]

Well you couldve still had them in the custom APL section

[pliant topaz]

also do u know if nimble fazed bug/interaction are in sims?

[hazy breach]

Because they didnt increase the ratios, they just slapped an aura ontop of it

[pliant topaz]

i forgot

[hazy breach]

They should be

Because its an automatic whitelist

[pliant topaz]

oh nice so tricksters accurate

but yeah its uh not looking fun

[honest saddle]

I mean if DS is 1% better

you dont play DS in aoe

or m+

[pliant topaz]

thats on 2 targets bud

[honest saddle]

OH GOD

[lilac stag]

lol

[lilac stag]

So we dropping overrides now?

[hazy breach]

Well ye its in by default

So now the overrides just screw it up

[pliant topaz]

its 5% on 8

[lilac stag]

I only ran pre-reset

[pliant topaz]

and then just goes up frm there since its not target capped

[lilac stag]

Run 8min HAC for me

Give me something to compare to with mine.

[honest saddle]

maybe this is what youre talking about but nimble being 40% or 45% or whatever it is instead of 50% is corrected in sims or?

[hazy breach]

Nimble is 50%

[honest saddle]

isnt it bugged in game though

[hazy breach]

But the bug is that fazed does not work on nimble

No

Or well, if youre in the khaz algar open world or dornogal its bugged and 40%

But not in dungeons or raids

[honest saddle]

I only run my sims as if I am attacking a critter in dornogal so...

[sly shore]

share

[pliant topaz]

@hazy breach wanna know something funny? Pretty sure if u wanna take tornado its better to drop rotten than VT. ill test in a sec

[sly shore]

in DM if u want

[topaz raptor]

Catch me in the necrotic wake farting purple clouds

[pliant topaz]

theyve already been updated in 'latest' no need for overrides or anything. U can just do quick sim and should represent the buffs

[hazy breach]

Idk the crit for fw is good

[sly shore]

you got sims already

and my gear is almost bis anyway

[pliant topaz]

im almost bis

just missing silken neck + 639 transmitter

[sly shore]

I'd have to log in

[weary saffron]

i think thats why he just wants to see yours instead of log in

[pliant topaz]

eh sure one sec

[sly shore]

This is my sub gear atm

[pliant topaz]

oh we're basically the same except i have 626 transmitter

[sly shore]

yuh

[pliant topaz]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dQhkVp32NAAkoADvQoHyaM

[wind canopy]

Y u no have 639 transmitter?

[pliant topaz]

nope never dropped for us

or vault

[wind canopy]

smh my head

[pliant topaz]

you can change it to be orc for another 0.x

[sly shore]

can nab ur code and just run it on my char

[pliant topaz]

yeah exactly

just put your chars name, and change the talent string

[sly shore]

I am geared towards assa anyway

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n2E8asAm13pSyhVgcL15bW

[strange chasm]

I am full bis pre much

Other than silken neck

[sly shore]

I am missing queen ring

and I'll be bis for assa

[pliant topaz]

same

[strange chasm]

Queen ring isn't bis I don't think anymore

[sly shore]

for assa it is

[strange chasm]

Or it still is for ST?

[pliant topaz]

queen ring is bis for both i think

[strange chasm]

Uh oh

[sly shore]

that'll be my vault surely

[strange chasm]

Wish it was mine

[native zodiac]

queen ring simmed like 2k over a crafted ring last week for me for sub

barely anything

[strange chasm]

Feral vault

[sly shore]

queen ring means I can drop crafted ring on assa

or is it over ovinax ring

[strange chasm]

What talents are you running @pliant topaz for dungeon?

[sly shore]

i forgor

[honest saddle]

it's still a good ring

[strange chasm]

Ovi ring good for m+

[sly shore]

yeah I cba running comparative sims rn

[honest saddle]

it seems so counter intuitive to have evisc cleave with nimble and then to keep buffing bp

whats the point

[pliant topaz]

i don even know. on sustained 8 target sims tornado is like 0.1 % better than rotten

[sly shore]

probs use tornado then

as DS

[native zodiac]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xtwGvpvw7ii2vtiZRgcf2F

p much bis but no transmitter

[sly shore]

yeah

[pliant topaz]

id like to point out a fun fact in that sim

[umbral apex]

was really hoping for a transmitter but I guess this will do for now. sigh

[pliant topaz]

the talent that makes ur auto attacks do mre damage is doing 50% of sectechs damage

in fact it does more damage than rupture

and bades

[swift tinsel]

lmao truly cursed timeline

[native zodiac]

i considering playing assa tomorrow on anything where i would be playing deathstalker

cba

[swift tinsel]

now they just need to bring back mastery affecting SnD

[warm marlin]

Yeah the auto attack talent is tuned super high for some reason

[sly shore]

💀

buffing plague dam by 45%

crazy

[half comet]

https://tenor.com/view/ascending-energy-galaxy-gif-17739196

[honest saddle]

HES HIM

[half comet]

i have beat nerubar palace

[swift tinsel]

Yas Queen

[bright sundial]

hello guys question for DS in M+ do we take mod or ftb?

[pliant topaz]

mod/ftb?

[swift tinsel]

momentum of despair/follow the blood

I assume

[pliant topaz]

@strange chasm probably this for m+. loses like 2% single target, but maintains most aoe pretty much.

[bright sundial]

yeah sry should've typed it out lmao

[pliant topaz]

momentum of despair. Follow the blood is bugged. doesnt work with shadowed finishers

[hazy breach]

TFd over wm though

[pliant topaz]

yea with that

[vale pine]

tfd

[hazy breach]

Momentum

[swift tinsel]

yea, was typing out the abbreviations from above

[hazy breach]

Also i think the vanish shield is useless nowadays

[bright sundial]

shadowed finisher as in during dance or blades?

[vale pine]

you can just feint it

[hazy breach]

Shadowed finishers as the talent shadowed finisher

[bright sundial]

oh I see ty for info

[wanton portal]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[hazy breach]

Like ye sure the vanish shield is 18% hp and the DR is only 10%. So against exclusively one big oneshot every 2 minutes the vanish shield is slightly better

[clever delta]

can we still use symbols before pull?

[hazy breach]

But 10% dr like 40% of the time is gonna be better in like 99.9999% of cases

[pliant topaz]

nah i cant take it dude

my bp does roughly like 260k from tooltip + momentum buff

evis does 290 from tooltip

lmfao

[fair stump]

Don't, I don't want to play BP

[rough sigil]

what exactly does this mean? I don't know why I am confused by the macro. Does it not allow the skill to be used while the buff is out, I guess I don't know what a castsequence is.

[fair stump]

I kinda remember that, when was that removed and why?

[slate basin]

black powder build is pretty fun guys you have to give it a shot

[pliant topaz]

im surprised they didnt partition again (wclgs)

[fair stump]

basically, if you like to spam buttons, it makes it so you don't cast all 3 times

[wind canopy]

It stops you from hitting it multiple times accidentally. That's it.

[hazy breach]

If you spam symbols it will not use it twice/three times

[rough sigil]

Thanks team!

[hazy breach]

💀

(this is still using darkest night)

[fair stump]

Is that on ST?

Or M+?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Full ST

[swift tinsel]

Ahahahaha

what the fuck

[fair stump]

Are we gonna use BP on ST now?

[vestal escarp]

been saying this forever

momentum bp is evis

[hazy breach]

No, as you can see evis is still 3.6% ahead

The point was that its not very far ahead

[livid thicket]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[vestal escarp]

like

you can now optimize for danse in ST

[pliant topaz]

this is the same timeline jayce was sent to

its joever

someone send me back. i wont fail. i promise

[wind canopy]

I just started watching the series...

[fair stump]

lol

[swift tinsel]

Absolute Cinema

[pliant topaz]

its absolute fucking cinema

[clever delta]

bp two target is back

cant wait

[fair stump]

Blizzard buff trickster pls

[upper narwhal]

did they fix any of the bugs now that reset's hit or nah?

[honest saddle]

techncially they did buff trickster by buffing BP KEK

[swift tinsel]

"We see people are pressing BP too much as Deathstalker so we're upping Nimble Flurry to 75% damage"

[pliant topaz]

so... I dont think this is actually as optimized as it can be btw. im assuming its dropping momentum buff since its playing nrmally/backstabbing, pretty sure i can get it to like 2-2.5% ish

[fair stump]

... what? how

[honest saddle]

12+ targets

USE BP

[fair stump]

Imagine having 12+ targets

[upper narwhal]

also using BP to hold coup proc

big buff

[fair stump]

not my keys

[honest saddle]

BIG BUFF!

[fair stump]

Just in case, why 12+?

Isn't nimble flurry 8 targets?

[honest saddle]

Fuu just said it was like 10-12, I dunno how many you actually need

[pliant topaz]

breakeven probably lower than 12 now

[hazy breach]

Its technically not even related at all to how many targets you have

[pliant topaz]

^ FW opop

[hazy breach]

Its moreso based on how many find weaknesses you have out

Which is not gonna be a whole lot as strikes still do more than storms

So in practice it ends up being mostly just eviscerate anyway, regardless of target count

[pliant topaz]

turns out trying to get FW out means youre storming, which means youre not progressing coup, and not cleaving strike/backstabs

its a vibe how it works against itself

even though since nimble is physical having FW on other targets increaases their damage taken. but its just designed not very smartly

[honest saddle]

Tornado just needs to do bp instead of storms. problem solved

[upbeat sorrel]

do we use the talent builds on wowhead w gloomblade or is there another one since patch

[pliant topaz]

you use that one for pure single target

[hazy breach]

The gloomblade one is the goto for literally pure ST

but anytime theres another target you need improved storm at the top

Which means you cant get gloom

So you just take imp sht because it does something

[pliant topaz]

taking improved storm + RS over SF+GB is like -0.4% btw.

[fair stump]

So basically Sikran and Princess

And that's it

[upper narwhal]

yes

[hazy breach]

Im probably not even gonna bother

[quiet pagoda]

@hazy breach Hey ! Read your guide, but have a question - at which moment we using tornado storm in aoe ?

[hazy breach]

Like armin said the difference is extremly small

[bright sundial]

big dmg

[hazy breach]

Not during shadow blades mostly

[fair stump]

What's SF

[pliant topaz]

shadow focus (tlaent about gloombldea)

[clever delta]

so since we BPing in raid again, whats Target count for storm now ?

[cloud rover]

https://tenor.com/view/me-atrapaste-es-cine-its-cinema-cinema-esto-es-cine-gif-12869046600151364058

[upbeat sorrel]

bet, ty

[honest saddle]

M+ build now?

[fair stump]

Will you play DS on every boss now? Or just those two purely ST bosses?

[upbeat sorrel]

looks lit imma try it out

[fair stump]

Don't, I don't want to play DS on M+

[pliant topaz]

storm is always 2+. you would only backstab as trickster if u didnt have form up

[fair stump]

Please

[honest saddle]

I don't wanna either

[quiet pagoda]

I saw hachadino did TS to spread ruptures. But isnt it better to spend on Eviscerates ?

[hazy breach]

TS?

[sly shore]

in a dslice

[clever delta]

so if this is DS st, i just drop SF for storm at bosses with more than one target?

[upbeat sorrel]

i love powder spam

reminds me of SL sub

[fair stump]

Sacrilege

[honest saddle]

youd want gloom @clever delta I think

[clever delta]

where that came from

man im so behind with sub

i was like not here for some time

[honest saddle]

I think this, sapp

[pliant topaz]

its gb over improved shti believe. but yeah u drop gb and sf for imrpvoed storm and maybe replicating or something

[hazy breach]

Id just recommend to play storm+imp sht all the time and not bother swapping to gloom+SF, its unironically like 0.3%-0.4%

[pliant topaz]

or imp sht

[bright sundial]

wait if we play DS in m+ do we still us DN when its rdy?

[hazy breach]

yes

[clever delta]

insane

[hazy breach]

Always DN immediately

[bright sundial]

o7

[sly shore]

singular focus

is kind of funny

[upper narwhal]

it's quite strong

[clever delta]

okay so SF and GB for pure ST and imp storm and replicating for cleave? or?

[pliant topaz]

imagine if it worked with sectech...

or as eleem found 6/6 bp hits instead of 5/6

[sly shore]

💀

this spec has infinite bugs

[quiet pagoda]

ST (suriken tornado) - sorry 🙂

[sly shore]

so funny

[hazy breach]

Well you wouldnt want to eviscerate, you'd bp. But it doesnt particularly matter what you use it on. Its mostly for more cdr

As it doesnt line up with our burst anymore, and using it during our burst decently often means up we waste shadowcraft procs

Its just a scuffed ability

[quiet pagoda]

BP as trickster ? Or subs play deathstalker already ? 🤔

[hazy breach]

Oh dont play tornado as trickster

Ah mb i still have it as nado in the build section, mb it should be veiltouched instead

[tulip token]

Can someone link me or show me a ST build for DS. Just want to mess with it on a dummy and see how it feels

[lilac stag]

Wowhead

[quiet pagoda]

And are we playing deathstalker in aoe too now ? I loved that as trickster I can do single target rotation and passively do aoe

[hazy breach]

Well deathstalker you can do your aoe and passively do ST

[vale pine]

tornado feels fine on deathstalker but redundant on trickster

[tulip token]

Should have looked haha I figured maybe it wouldn't be updated but it is

[clever delta]

btw whats prio as DS for DN? when i enter dance and have DN ready, do i proc it first finisher in dance or sectech for buff

[hazy breach]

Always DN immediately

[quiet pagoda]

Umm, isnt BP hits lower in ST than aoe ? 😄

[clever delta]

and do i ever hold DN ever for dance

[hazy breach]

BP does almost as much as eviscerate

On pure ST

[pliant topaz]

its just a flawed ability. before, it used to serve a purpose, to help u fit more finishers during dance. but now it doenst really do that anymore. because it ends up wasting cdr/ finishers by eating sht stacks.

so its a thing we use outside of cds now instead of in cds

[vale pine]

i agree

[pliant topaz]

so its value is just by default a lot lower

[vale pine]

tornado feels outdated

[hazy breach]

So with singular focus its gonna do more than evis

[upper narwhal]

Tornado would be fine if Shadowcraft wasn't mandatory in every build

[pliant topaz]

pretty sure on 3+ targets bp does more pri than evis lol

im down

fuck it full send

[pliant topaz]

not really though

it costs too much

does too little

[upper narwhal]

yeah what I mean is it would be less shit

[pliant topaz]

has negativee synergy with trickster as a whole

[clever delta]

do you guys still prio EE over 8% healing_?

when i have imp ss taken

[hazy breach]

Typically EE for m+ and 8% healing for raid

But realistically with trickster it might just not be worth to have EE unless you specifically need it against oneshots

(since nimble flurry doesnt proc it)

[clever delta]

whats nimble

[quiet pagoda]

Sorry for bothering @hazy breach - will you update builds soon ?

[clever delta]

we are DS gamers now

no nimble here

[ornate current]

Do we have a full rotation breakdown for DS up somewhere ?

[hazy breach]

Yes im doing it right now

[hazy breach]

Theres not much difference besides using DN immediately, and using clear the witnesses when symbols aint up on ST

[upbeat sorrel]

is the mytico plus build on wowhead for DS what i should be running

[quiet pagoda]

Stats going to be the same ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[ornate current]

Wanna see how opener works now that we have less cdr on ST

[clever delta]

damni forget how fucked up is DS with sectech

[vale pine]

the opener is the same

[ornate current]

Do we even get to cast a 2nd one we holding off the 3rd one

[lilac stag]

Spam BP until DN reset seems about it leaving now dummies

[clever delta]

but we are getting second sectech very late in opener

do we go around it or ?

[lilac stag]

Clear the witness starting to nut

[hazy breach]

You can fit your second sectech in your opener yes

[pliant topaz]

yeah it hits hard

[clever delta]

yeah but its like mid way second dance instead at start

[hazy breach]

Well ye

[clever delta]

so im just asking if im suppose to fit some finisher in between dances

or just send it

[hazy breach]

Na send immediately

[lilac stag]

i think we try this on Ovi

[honest saddle]

ds in m+ is miserable because you have to manually refresh snd

[clever delta]

ovinax is only boss i would say tornado have some value

but thats just in my head

[lilac stag]

nah fuck tornado

[vale pine]

2nd secret is tight, also if you test on dummy make sure you have the shaman buff

[hazy breach]

What

Youre using darkest night

Its gonna refresh it for you

[pliant topaz]

i suggest ornado over SF. sf does nothing

[lilac stag]

nope

I'll take EB over nado

[hazy breach]

If its progress i'd honestly recommend the +8% healing over SF

[unkempt hare]

Anyone do any keys with the buffs yet?

[lilac stag]

that or imp sht

[hazy breach]

SF is basically nothing

[clever delta]

second sectech is basically at end of trasnmitter

[lilac stag]

SF I think was reminance of ST GB connectors lol

[rough sigil]

anyone have a way of tracking Darkest Night? I forget to keep track it in my head at times. Wa mayhaps?

[quiet pagoda]

But overall, does deathstalker feels clunkier to play, @hazy breach ?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[steel horizon]

Aint no way im playing DS on court tonight right??

[topaz raptor]

giga dam

[honest saddle]

I think it seems very unlikely that someone with hundreds of pulls with trickster, is going to do more dam as DS after not having played it all tier, even if DS is 1-2% better in 2 target cleave

it seems like a fools errand

[steel horizon]

Is it actually better at 2 target cleave though? Wtf

[hazy breach]

Its similar yes

[steel horizon]

Jesus

[hazy breach]

BP almost does the same damage as eviscerate now as deathstalker

On pure ST

[steel horizon]

The strangest timeline

[honest saddle]

they should have buffed nimble like 10%

and buffed bp

[clever delta]

what DS better at cleave

man trisckter so dead

[honest saddle]

nimble really should be like 75% dam or something

[hazy breach]

Trickster is still burstier so it still seems to keep up for m+ situations

But we'll have to see

I dont think its dead

[swift tinsel]

Gonna go full BP for our heroic reclear tonight just for shits

[upbeat sorrel]

gonna need another 20% BP buff game is unplayable

[pliant topaz]

I’m down!

I only wanna use evis for darkest night. Bp otherwise. Based

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/pon-скучныйпон-gif-26852256

[tepid trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/something-smells-stinky-stinky-its-you-gif-27701154

me everytime DN is up on AoE

[still zephyr]

im new to sub rogue would you guys say ds is more easy to play than trickster?

or should i just stay playing trickster

[hazy breach]

Id recommend to stay trickster

Maybe try branching out to deathstalker for pure ST bosses when you feel more confident

[tepid trellis]

personally, it dont change much, i think they are very similar in how hard they are

[still zephyr]

how close are they in dmg?

[hazy breach]

Its mostly in aoe that you need to use eviscerates instead of bps when DN is up

Its real bad if you accidently do more BPs and forget the eviscerates

[upbeat sorrel]

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker notably ahead in ST

Like 6% or so

[strange chasm]

That is crazy BP is almost even with Evis on ST

So anything over 2 targets and you are 100% pressing BP

[hazy breach]

Its at like 85% or so of eviscerates damage

With momentum up

[strange chasm]

Wow lol

[topaz raptor]

need a big DN tracker in the middle of your screen

[hazy breach]

Definitely would be more enjoyable if DN worked with BP as well (and unseen blade being applied by storm while we are at it)

I understand the thematic element of "marking your target" with eviscerate but its just oof

[tepid trellis]

meaningful changes to make the spec feel better? cant have that who the hell do you think you are? mages???

[cobalt verge]

Tru

[strange chasm]

So on court are we slamming black powder

[hazy breach]

If they fixed the mark bug we would be striking to apply it anyway in aoe so we would still be "marking"

Yes

[strange chasm]

Damn so only using evis to reapply mark

[hazy breach]

Try to hit beetles for more boss damage

[strange chasm]

I am red group

😦

[vale pine]

beetles are your friends

don't hit them

[lilac stag]

Why? It’s slower. Same concept.

[mild vessel]

aight so with the buffs .. anything change ?

[lilac stag]

you’re not worrying about squeezing in a Sectech

It’s more or less brain dead as far as sub build go

[summer pewter]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[vale pine]

you already used bp on 2 targets on deathstalker

[mild vessel]

i never tried bp and newer to sub rogue

[steel horizon]

am i understanding this correctly? even in an aoe situation, with symbols up, we're using SS as a generator?

[mild vessel]

err tried DS*

[uneven fern]

idk why i was scared to learn this spec

u just press 2 buttons and vibe man

day 3 sub topping overalls

annoying i have to sign up as sin and bait people tho

[hazy breach]

Yes youre using storm in aoe

[uneven fern]

makes me feel mean

[gleaming plank]

what's the current M+ build? is it accurate to the spreadsheets?

[steel horizon]

ok i didnt see the "on st" at the end there unless you just edited that in right now 😅

[hazy breach]

Ye mb

Realized i wasnt being very clear

[hazy breach]

Eviscerate makes it 3 bud

Trickster is the 2 button spec

[uneven fern]

oh yeah today is ds day isnt it

im still playing trickster

i forgot

oopsy

[gleaming plank]

what's the current sub build for M+. is it the one on the spreadsheet

[hazy breach]

yes

[uneven fern]

i dont want to play ds man

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[gleaming plank]

but is the DS build ahead now?

[hazy breach]

Or well, can use tfd instead of wm

[gleaming plank]

cuz trickster is like 7% ahead on the sheet

[hazy breach]

Probably not

Sheet isnt updated since the patch came out like 3 hours ago

[gleaming plank]

heard

[hazy breach]

But its way closer

[gleaming plank]

is BP in the rotation now

for both or j DS

i havent played sub all tier

[hazy breach]

No trickster doesnt bp

[vale pine]

only in rly big pulls, and even then you trading off prio damage

[hazy breach]

Even then it usually isnt that worth since you dont have much FWs up

And using storm to apply find weaknesses isnt worth it compared to striking

So its just

[shy ermine]

Did they fix any ds bugs

[hazy breach]

What do you think

[pliant topaz]

Alter time is another discord bud

[shy ermine]

My optimism has quickly faded

[lilac stag]

You must be new here

[hazy breach]

No more optimism

Only

[lilac stag]

fuck this timeline

Cheetos & purple farts

[pliant topaz]

Only despair

Momentum of despair

[hazy breach]

[shy ermine]

I won’t be raiding for the next 3 weeks, unlucky timing

Taking a week off after killing Queen, then I’m going on holiday for 2 weeks

Wanted to try ds at least

[small juniper]

any tips on queen @hazy breach

started raiding again and doing it tomorrow

solid 620 ilvl

[hazy breach]

You can step the boss during the shield grip and youll end up in a decent spot

[fair stump]

use vanish to break webs

[hazy breach]

The beam on the platform has slightly bigger hitbox than it looks like so it can hit you if you step him right as it and the grip goes out, so step a friend instead for those to be safe

[candid field]

so its better to evis when dn is up instead of st?

[fair stump]

DN is always priority

[hazy breach]

Yes

[strange chasm]

Is this for the platforms??

[hazy breach]

No

[tidal python]

No chance dark brew is competitive right?

[vale pine]

on aoe it is

but there is no pure aoe in raid

[tepid trellis]

did you not raid this tier?

[alpine wraith]

no dont play dark brew you lose the 2x symbols

that gives lots of st

[small juniper]

nope

[alpine wraith]

good choice

[tepid trellis]

nah

bosses were good

game state not so much

[alpine wraith]

ovi nax cursed the pool

other bossers were fine yea

[uneven fern]

court looks like shit

havent fought it tho

but it just seems unfun

[lilac stag]

hoping we out of WA prison tonight

[uneven fern]

whats wa prison

ovi?

[lilac stag]

mhmm

[tepid trellis]

but ehm, you can step ansurek during yoinks in intermission 1, step add to keep uptime on platform 1 during yank and step a mage or smth in p3 to go over the circle

[uneven fern]

yea that boss kinda blows when ur still doing tech support on the was

(100 pulls)

[tepid trellis]

thats like the niche rogue stuff

rest is kinda like w/e

nothing really kills you anymore

[golden totem]

I can't parse on ovinax whats the trick ffs

i delay as they do on lorrrgs

[tepid trellis]

tell other people to stop parsing

[golden totem]

[alpine wraith]

also you need to double dance every pod

[tepid trellis]

bench the warriors

and frost dks

then you are good

[golden totem]

ill try this next week

[alpine wraith]

you can check my sheet kinda or video but still as stealthi said it is a padder boss now

[golden totem]

Yeah ofc but seems like i don't know how to pad this one

got pink/yellow on every boss but ovinax and queen

queen is skill issue

nerf elem

kill time sucks too

[candid field]

is there a noticeable difference between trickster and deathstalker in m+?

[hazy breach]

https://tenor.com/view/i-didnt-do-anything-hayden-sistas-s4e12-i-did-nothing-about-it-gif-25985755

[golden totem]

xd I thought about it after sending it

impostor

[vestal escarp]

alls well what ends well

famed ✅

[golden totem]

nice

gratz

[strange chasm]

You play DS?

[vale pine]

i will stick to trickster

[golden totem]

I will stick to hardcore classic

DS sub scares me

[honest saddle]

eventually, of course you will, but if you are close to a kill, why change anything?

[strange chasm]

I'm going to go DS tonight and see how it goes

I'm simming almost 1.6 mil rn

[tepid trellis]

havent simmed my rogue since day before kill

[strange chasm]

I think with buffs we will be one of best ST classes no?

Trickster is -9.2%

Yikes

[gleaming plank]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

correct we will get nerfed maybe even

but it is at 6% better instead of 9 because of mark bug

unless some NA people found they fixed mark bug

[fair crest]

is the other hero talent tree expected to outperform the trickster tree in mythic+ overall, after the buffs? 👀

[honest saddle]

very hard to tell, I am testing high keys now

I am in a 12 atm playing DS, so far it seems ok.

[hazy breach]

It seems to be roughly the same from sim numbers

[upbeat sorrel]

is fatebound ass good for ST? didnt realize the #'s were close til i saw the sheet

wrong channel i guess oops

[alpine wraith]

fatebound is close yes

[strange chasm]

This is atleast good because now we must be insanely closer to ass now for m+

[hazy breach]

I mean its as good as trickster

Were still a little bit behind assa

[strange chasm]

But the prio damage has increased no?

Being able to go DS

[hazy breach]

Yeah

[strange chasm]

Which is like why ass is so good

[hazy breach]

Assas prio is still way better

[strange chasm]

Interesting. Going to test it on some 14s and 15s tomorrow and see

I think it could be really good

[alpine wraith]

you do a bit more dmg if you are lucky at least

what 32% crit dmg does to a mfer

[fair crest]

how come the marks doesn't always get consumed after using a finisher, even if you have the target with marks targeted? 🤔

or am i crazy

ill read all the talents in the talent tree again

[hazy breach]

Because you have darkest night up

[rough sigil]

are you cp 5+?

[alpine wraith]

also yea DN does not let you consume marks

[fair crest]

yea always above 5+ combo points

hmm okay thanks for the info, ill keep practicing the rotation

[alpine wraith]

if you are using bp you also need to target the marked mob

[hazy breach]

you do not need to target it

It still ticks down

[alpine wraith]

oh nice

[hazy breach]

But obv you should be auto attacking the marked target anyway for hunt

[hazy breach]

Ye you just need to use darkest night eviscerates immediately

[hollow basin]

I'm trying to help a friend understand sub for m+ and I read you should cast sliceand dice during your opener, assuming you don't have it, but he said you never cast it physically, just eviscerate is enough. This seems to be incorrect as checking a log he casts eviscerate but no slice and diice buff gets applied? Does it just extend it?

[hazy breach]

Eviscerate gives slice and dice

Even if its not up

[hollow basin]

Is the log wrong then? For some reason he cast it but no buff got applied

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/wJArRz3g2aF8CkYx#fight=8&type=damage-done&pull=6&source=333

[hazy breach]

Not sure what you mean

He has slice up

[hollow basin]

During this specific pull? I cannot see it in the buffs

Is the name different?

[hazy breach]

Wcl doesnt show buffs that have literally 100% uptime

If you zoom out of the that pull

Youll see it

[hollow basin]

For the overall log he has 80% uptime

we did die but I assume that's it I guess

[cold frost]

Maybe a stupid question but I just started playing rogue again (sub) what talent makes Rupture spread or hit more than one target in aoe?

[hollow basin]

fair enough, thank you for the information

[hazy breach]

Replicating Shadows

[cold frost]

AAAAAHHH

thanks 😄

[hollow basin]

Can I ask you to refer me to a guide that would be most helpful since the on e on method's website states slice and dice should be cast and never mentions it being automatically applied

[hazy breach]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Eleem

[hazy breach]

You can probably imagine which one i'd recommend

[upbeat sorrel]

is DS worth doing in m+ or still not quite sheet has it behind a decent % compared to trickster

[hollow basin]

Thank you

[barren narwhal]

anyone got a darkstalker m+ build for me? 🫶

[upbeat sorrel]

CUQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mBAAAAAALjZWmGgHYmxYmZmxMzMjxsNmxM2mZGzMzYALz2AAAAYmBDLmlBGwCYZYCZWgB

its the one from the sheet

[barren narwhal]

cheers lad

[honest saddle]

ok the twelve key is complete

BAD NEW FOR TRICKSTER ENJOYERS

DS IS GOOD

[cold frost]

Oh noes

[gleaming plank]

send that overall

[upbeat sorrel]

did you use the same build as sheet

send tech

[golden totem]

is hating DS equals to being a trickster enjoyer

[lilac stag]

Just don’t play it. Ez

[gleaming plank]

what was the overall lookin like

[gleaming plank]

what key

[honest saddle]

Necrotic