subtlety

[leaden prairie]

Not the first time it happens either

I hope blizzard remove that talent sometimes soon

It's cringe

[tribal blade]

bro i don't understand how that's a thing

you're playing keys as pirate right?

[leaden prairie]

Blizzard enjoy silly stuff I guess idk

[leaden prairie]

No because we have an Aug now

So I can't

I wish

I don't think outlaw is that behind in most keys

But it is with an Aug

[tribal blade]

damn that's tragic

[lilac stag]

tell your Aug to Dev

[leaden prairie]

Yeye

[lilac stag]

So you can be out of prison

[leaden prairie]

Idk I might just stop playing with these people

[lilac stag]

I will fight for your right to Pirate.

[leaden prairie]

I would rather not play than play assa rn

[tribal blade]

i would say fuck it and just play outlaw

fuck the meta

[keen dome]

Isn't Elusiveness getting nerfed in 11.0.7 or did I imagine that. Maybe someday we can just have both. Cheat Death would be nice to just always have, and thematic..

[leaden prairie]

I could

But it would be lfg outlaw

Vs team assa

[keen dome]

Tell them the Rogue discord mandates you to be a pirate

[tribal blade]

try to find yourself a squishvegan kinda group

[lilac stag]

@leaden prairie are you enjoying outlaw right now, or is just “ok” in the feels department.

[leaden prairie]

It's my dream

But ye

[tribal blade]

outlaw/warr/monk

massive melee comp

[leaden prairie]

Best iteration of outlaw I ever played

While also being the worse

No acro feel very bad in keys

But the gameplay is crazy good

I think outlaw damage profile is the worse it's ever been also

[lilac stag]

acro meme here

[keen dome]

Acro.....

[leaden prairie]

With it being so so punished by downtime and missed gcds etc

But ye

Definitely still my favorite iteration

[lilac stag]

I’m glad you’re finding it fun

[leaden prairie]

Ace procs are very addicting

And kir is crazy fun

Kir with CTO

Is a banger

Having to react to your CTO procs

Fish for more before pressing kir

It feels very good

[lilac stag]

What’s the apm at ?

[leaden prairie]

Like 80 idk

[lilac stag]

so still arthritis inducing.

[leaden prairie]

We have Perma ADR rn basically

So ye

[haughty mural]

tbh - find a team that lets you outlaw

[tribal blade]

if i quit pushing this season i might fuck around with outlaw a bit

i haven't seriously played outlaw in a while

[leaden prairie]

Which is basically impossible cuh

Not if I want to do the keys I wanna do

Wox is very lucky

These type of groups don't exist

[tribal blade]

this kinda thing

oh i found one w/o nox

insert warrior where the lock is

[leaden prairie]

Ye

I wish I could find open minded one tricks

[tribal blade]

yeah this kind of setup is really rare atm

[leaden prairie]

THat push keys

But everyone just fotm reroll

[tribal blade]

do you want the vegan discord

i'm actually still in his disc

[leaden prairie]

Why

He has wox already lol

[tribal blade]

he plays a lot, he might be able to squeeze you in

i think he also runs with nessa sometimes

[leaden prairie]

Ye idk the guy anyway

I don't know a lot of people tbf

[tribal blade]

i only ran 2 keys with him

and the 1st time i met him i made the mistake of telling him "mcdonalds is that way"

and he gave me a lecture on the horrors of the meat industry

[leaden prairie]

[tribal blade]

he lives up to his name lol

there's very few super high IO people who are 1 tricking atm

almost everyone on my friends list has main swapped

literally every single tank has gone prot pal

[keen dome]

lmao, that's amazing

[tribal blade]

he is REALLY into veganism

[keen dome]

Powerful name, powerful gimmick. I approve.

[tribal blade]

no flack from me about that, i respect it

[serene tapir]

<——28 years in as vege

[tribal blade]

i can't argue about what he says

[lilac stag]

kinda odd to me when it becomes your identity. but you do you boo and keep on keeping on.

[tribal blade]

i used to date a vegetarian

[lilac stag]

not just dietary, but anything.

[tribal blade]

very true

[serene tapir]

More common now then back when I was 10 years

[tame stratus]

EU obession with meta, no matter the game

[leaden prairie]

My tank had a prot pal ready on the reset it got buffed, dude was already prepping it just in case

I hate fotm rerollers man

[lilac stag]

lol

[serene tapir]

They treaten it like a virus xD

[leaden prairie]

I wish specs where also closer to each other

[lilac stag]

tank prepping is such a common thing I feel

[tribal blade]

ME TOO

[leaden prairie]

In term of everything

DMG and util

[keen dome]

high5, 10 years.

[leaden prairie]

And delete Aug please

[tribal blade]

delete aug

it's a disease

[leaden prairie]

The only reason I can't play outlaw rn

[lilac stag]

All we can offer is a 75% buff to BP.

[leaden prairie]

Is cause Aug exist

[keen dome]

[tribal blade]

aug literally completely ruined such a balanced season in S2

[keen dome]

One trick Sub rogue for life

[tribal blade]

and every season after that

[serene tapir]

🫡

[lilac stag]

I am the balance in the force. ALL THE BACON please and thank you.

[keen dome]

Haha

[tribal blade]

my favorite part about dating a vegetarian was going out to eat

and not being able to decide where to eat

because we had to strike the balance of a place where she could actually have something to eat, and a place i could stand

[keen dome]

It's goten a whole lot better. Vegeterian is just easypeasy now. It's great. I used to work food retail and certain meat dishes make me nauseous. The smell is such a trigger, lmao

[serene tapir]

In Sweden it’s kinda easy to find a meat place that is also good at vege food

[tribal blade]

ahah not here in hong kong, this place is brutally hard

[lilac stag]

vegan and my diabetes was a nightmare. My body just does way better on heavy protein (meat based) diets. Even stuff like the (forgot the name) veggie burgers just wreck my blood sugars.

[tribal blade]

issue with veggie burgers is they're ultra processed

[serene tapir]

But I am one of those that dosent give a f about other ppls decisions 😁

[lilac stag]

we all can live in peace

[serene tapir]

Can be, depends 👍

[lilac stag]

Insecure people can’t

[keen dome]

Yep, super frustrating.

[lilac stag]

if everyone was the same, fuck this world would be boring AF

[keen dome]

I'm a huge fan of food, but I don't need meat to enjoy it so it's w/e. I'd probably try regional dishes to experience them but at home I'm always vegeterian.

[serene tapir]

Yeah qourn etc isnt the best for the enviroment

[lilac stag]

watching some of the vege body builders now is crazy

[keen dome]

Yeah. Quorn is an okay alternative but like. It's not a good long-term solution.

Really good nuggets though.

Also a lot of the fake cheese and stuff is coconut oils which is another whole issue.

[serene tapir]

I mean i like it, but its just not a good chooice if you care for ”healthy” food

[keen dome]

Yeah

Absolutely

I'm a big fan of southern indian because a ton of their dishes are vegeterian and easily adaptable as needed

I just find a dish I like and adapt.

[serene tapir]

Yeah plenty of good food idd

There is a brand ”called hälsans kök” in Sweden but its från Israel

Dunno about the international name but i love the product

[keen dome]

Nod

We have Moving Mountains here. It's processed but decent on occasion. There's also stuff like vivolife or w/e. Good options but it's all hyper-processed which is just frustrating. But c'est la vie.

Tofu is a great tool for making good vegeterian dishes.

[serene tapir]

Yup way easier to find better food now then like 25 years back 😁

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[serene tapir]

Or more tasty I’d say

[keen dome]

Yeah. A better selection.

[lilac stag]

gluten free 25 years ago. 😩

[keen dome]

Gluten 😠

[lilac stag]

Got the double whammy of type 1 & celiacs

I’m lucky my celiacs isn’t awful, but man I can go from skinny to looking like I’m pregnant with a bad reaction.

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's real rough. I've got a buddy who has really rough celiacs and it's been a nightmare for him to adjust and find alternative solutions. The rise of plant-based foods has been pretty big for finding decent alternatives at least.

[lilac stag]

yeah. I got pretty good about going with meat and veggies.

eating out always the wildcard

Or family get togethers where they get livid you don’t try X food they made

[keen dome]

Urgh 😦

[lilac stag]

“Would you be pushing uncle Jimmy to have a drink after he’s been sober for 7 years? No? Fuck off with your TikTok cookie recipe”.

Merry Christmas 😆

[keen dome]

My grandmother never understood it when I went vegeterian. "Do you still eat chicken?" "No? It's an animal." "What about Pork?" "What about salmon? That's not an animal."

[lilac stag]

“WHAT DO YOU EAT?!?!?”

[keen dome]

Soup. I live on SOUP

[lilac stag]

Chicken Noodle Soup?

[hot plaza]

Guys is sub easier now than it was in df please? Ty 👍

[keen dome]

oh no

[lilac stag]

It’s different. Still algebra compared to assa

[hot plaza]

Thanks mate watching a few people play how comes back stab is being used in aoe loads and hardly ever shuriken storm? Ty

[lilac stag]

due to trickster hero talents / flawless

deathstalker uses storm in ST f.ex

just weird interaction shit

[hot plaza]

Awesome Ty mate appreciate that ♥️👍

[lilac stag]

storm costs a ton of energy so we do nearly nothing outside of dance

just trying to get cds back

[sly shore]

storm if you have unseen blade up

else backstab

[idle aurora]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hot plaza]

Ty ♥️👍

[delicate steeple]

is the dm bug still live?

or was that only a sim bug

[hazy breach]

You cannot proc any marks while you have darkest night up correct. Its still a thing

[honest grail]

Bros

How is sub on silken court

I'm playing assassination atm but my secondaires are better for sub and it feels like the fight is more geared towards heavy burst damage in short windows

[lilac stag]

it’s good. They’re both fine tbh

Assa doesn’t care about anything but ilvl

[delicate steeple]

when would this situation happen?

isnt it like one or the other unless youre opening from stealth with a darkest night proc up?

[hazy breach]

Almost every single time you press dance

Youre striking before the eviscerate

[delicate steeple]

oh ss from dance applies mark?

[hazy breach]

And you need to eviscerate and cant sectech, even though you'd sometimes want to sectech

Yes

[delicate steeple]

odd i figured cause blindside doesnt dance wouldnt

[hazy breach]

Dance is stealth

Blindside isnt

[delicate steeple]

ah right

[delicate steeple]

well hopefully they snuck that fix in on tuesday aswell

[swift tinsel]

I wouldn't hold out too much hope

[delicate steeple]

tbh theyll probably break something with enhance again and itll gain another 5% dps

[spare hazel]

can someone explain this on wowhead:
Use Shuriken Storm on 3 or more targets with Flawless Form up.
Use Backstab.
for aoe rotation outside of shadow dance

shouldnt i use shuriken storm without flawless form?

[hazy breach]

You want to proc flawless form

[spare hazel]

aaah

ok

i get it

[hazy breach]

If you dont have it up you want to backstab

So youll have it up

[mint swift]

Im assuming the reason it's also bad compared to assa is cause

assa already uses Enven as it's main aoe finisher

But in DS evic isn't your main aoe finisher

[alpine wraith]

it is not super bad per se but annoying

[swift tinsel]

if they made it cleave like it does with nimble I wouldn't be mad

[alpine wraith]

biggest problem is getting to 7cp in dance can krangle as you need more than 1 builder

[swift tinsel]

with DN

[mint swift]

Ah fair

Only annoying thing that happens with assa like that is

Getting 6 CP from a FoK or going from 4 to 6 with a mutilate

[swift tinsel]

really wish they'd do away with the 7cp requirement bc it feels really disruptive

just keep it as >=5 as with mark

(also make it also apply to sectech instead of just evisc)

[vestal escarp]

Sectech guaranteed crit + 60%

[swift tinsel]

only way I'll ever want to play DS is if sectech can go from a nuclear bomb to a Death Star cannon

a man can dream

inb4 they make BP consume it too

[vestal escarp]

Whats funny about this

Is hero talent description in game for DS and trickster

And how they actually play

The opposite

[tawny river]

doesnt feint work on wrest?

[hazy breach]

It does not

[strong comet]

Nah it doesn't

[tawny river]

that sucks

[alpine wraith]

elu is good

[hazy breach]

You should be having cloak for the second one during the intermission anyway, and thats the dangerous one

[rocky wolf]

would it be worth it to save cloak if im early-ish in the prio for portal?

or is wrest more dangerous

[hazy breach]

The wrest is probably gonna oneshot you, or atleast close to

Whereas the portal aint doing that much

[tawny river]

how am i 54% DR here then?

[left ledge]

I cloak as she’s in mid about to cast the thing that starts intermission, she does so much damage there, I feel like second wrest is never scary for some reason

[hazy breach]

Mb thought you meant the one during intermission

Theyre two seperate spells

[tawny river]

i think it works

my intermission wrest DRs are all 50%+ with feint active

[hazy breach]

Ye youre right

mb

[strong comet]

Yeah it's clear with the evidence you have provided that it does

[strange chasm]

Yeah feint definitely works

Used it during prog and noticed when I had feint running and didn't lol

Almost everything on queen works with feint

[alpine wraith]

yea only the reactive toxin snap does not right?

as in when the debuff on you pops

and does big dam

[elfin hound]

start progressing Queen mythic now. what specc do you recommend for queen (any pro / cons)
can play both at the same level

[strange chasm]

Either or are completely fine now

Sub probably still is better but ass seems to do more damage at least on logs

[sly shore]

depends on the damage profile you need and where you need the damage

both are good

[alpine wraith]

sub is tankier cooler

and also invests better in stocks

[strange chasm]

Sub boss damage stonks going up next reset though! Isn't everyone excited to play DS!

[sly shore]

[haughty mural]

[spare hazel]

are we really switching to DS tomorrow?

i like trickster 😦

[alpine wraith]

for st it will be better

we do hate the gameplay tho

[strange chasm]

[uneven fern]

sub gets fucked hard by the bug right

cus shadowstrike is just applying that bitch all the time

idk i havent played this spec before yesterday

[hazy breach]

Yes its like a 2-3% dps loss numerically

But it mostly feels ass

[uneven fern]

ouchy

ya for sure

[hazy breach]

Because sectech can end up being delayed and desync

Since you need to eviscerate

[uneven fern]

trickster is kinda relaxing

until you kill yourself

[hazy breach]

Yes trickster is significantly more smooth and fun to play

[uneven fern]

i killed myself on queen the other day

day 1 sub already trickster death

nice

[uneven fern]

tragedy

black powder

shuriken storm

black powder

[strange chasm]

But if magically the DS bug is fixed along with the buff DS will be like 8% ahead no?

[uneven fern]

for sure gets fixed

[hazy breach]

fix a 1% bug for assa with echoing reprimand after 2 weeks of it being bugged
with the fix also introduce a bug that feels worse as sub and a 3% dmg loss
leave it for over 2 months
ultra buff the hero talent to force people to play with it

Thanks blizz

[strange chasm]

Will we aim higher ST than ass ?

[granite hinge]

Y

But dunno how It works

[swift tinsel]

rite of passage lol

[vale pine]

it is annoying because the bug they fixed for sin isn't even relevant anymore

[plush roost]

Fix ER, remove ER.

They're genius

[hybrid prism]

I killed myself in necrotic wake as trickster on the last boss. I got sent down and had my hour long tricks on the tank and when I tried to kill the add he misdirected to the tank and walked up the wall and went to the main platform. Then I got stuck down there with no add and after about 20 seconds just died. It auto killed me. Lol.

[topaz raptor]

if we all play trickster anyway maybe we can get another black powder buff in

[fallow nimbus]

[hazy breach]

I mean it kinda is. You can still use envenoms at 5 with supercharger up and it will count as DN and with 3 to have it count for a mark

[warm marlin]

a lesson we all have to learn... but also you can cloak the instakill debuff if you have it up

[hazy breach]

Ye it happens, but it wont insta teleport so if you see it walking towards not you, just use kidney on it

[lilac stag]

just gotta pvp the add. kekw

[hazy breach]

To give yourself more time to click of tricks and/or kill it

[lilac stag]

kidney to blow it up

congrats on learning Sub in keys

[hybrid prism]

It was evading. Lmao. When I attacked it after my first gcd, it evaded. 😂

[idle aurora]

Insta kill debuff?

[warm marlin]

When you get sent down in necrotic wake you get a debuff

It will auto kill you at the end and it’s removed if you click the add to fly back up

But you can also cloak it

[hybrid prism]

The more you know!

[idle aurora]

Woah

lol last night in necrotic I blew everything got sent down and like couldn’t do enough dmg to kill the stupid guy lol that’s good to know

[idle aurora]

What’s the command to bring up the rules of doing dmg

[lunar bluff]

!doingdmgrules

[idle aurora]

lol

Someone had typed something that gave me a pin or link on the rules of when to use shadow dance and when to pool I can’t find it now

[lunar bluff]

#subtlety-faq

[uneven fern]

#1271971289396936735 message this?

or just one of the guides yeah

ah the tc thread is in faq anyway

based

[idle aurora]

Oooooo

That’s it!

Ty ❤️

lol wtf when I went to pins it was a bottom all I had to do was scroll up on phone failboat on my part

[tropic fog]

yo, I can see in pinned that the buffs coming are 5.5% on ST and unclear on AOE yet, but y'all think it's enough to pull Sub into keys?

just wondering what the opinion is

feels a bit underwhelming especially considering Assa is millions ahead

[swift tinsel]

sub can handle high keys until you really start pushing

[alpine wraith]

we are also millions ahead in some situations

[topaz raptor]

sub damage is actually already quite good

[keen dome]

What level of keys are you meaning 'cos I'm pretty sure it's fine up to like 15 - 16 now?

[swift tinsel]

^

[keen dome]

We absolutely monster bosses.

[alpine wraith]

sub has more finesse and thinsg you can do with supercharger and tfd tho

[tropic fog]

True that, I mean not like we can't handle most key levels but yeah, was mostly just wondering how people felt about the buffs

[alpine wraith]

instead of press w like assa

so it might take a bit to learn

[tropic fog]

agreed

[keen dome]

I assume they won't really impact keys 'cos we'll stick as Trickster?

[swift tinsel]

Trickster is what we're running now and buffs don't do anything

[tropic fog]

BP buffs tho

[alpine wraith]

you can run as deathstalker if pulls are big enough and it will likely do more overall

[tropic fog]

still a bit more into AOE

[alpine wraith]

but you will struggle to find people that care enough

to even try it

when trickster is fine

[tropic fog]

XD true

[swift tinsel]

most non-sub folks don't know what we do lol

from other classes

[alpine wraith]

i will likely do some m+ next week to put out some videos

then shelve it

LUL

[swift tinsel]

lmao

[keen dome]

haha

I really enjoy boss 1 of Mists just to show people what Sub can do. Esp at 10's when most people don't really know

[swift tinsel]

same lol when I first ran with my guildmates after switching back they said I can play sub whenever I want

or you turbofuck stitch

see jaws drop

[keen dome]

Yeah, it's great.

It feels really rewarding to play well on bosses because you just rocket. Esp anything with a damage amp window

[sick jackal]

joined the mythic transmitter club bois straight from normal

[alpine wraith]

pog

[dawn hinge]

Managed to bug out Coup the Grace on some evading mobs that snapped to tank due to 1h tricks after he died

Reminded me of Outlaw bug, except now it showed me having coup up perma, but it never went off, so rather didn't proc

Also, did anything change about vanish, it feels like it just fails to stealth at times lately, or am I missing something

[alpine wraith]

you need to alt 4 or die

to solve coup bug solved

[sinful zephyr]

its funny when you wipe in ara kara and all the mobs teleport to the flying point at the beginning and everyone freaks out

[vale pine]

nicu, gz

[dawn hinge]

how exactly does it trigger though

[alpine wraith]

some combination of lag and mob dying or moving ina weird way you cant charge

quite random

[dawn hinge]

Cheers. Any vanish shenanigans or am I seeing things? Feels like it doesn't stealth every time

[alpine wraith]

more like it breaks easily

they broke the improv vanish interaction with dmg taken and other things

so it does not get protected for 3 secs like before

[unique anvil]

i need to have words with whoever gave trickster that random charge

[alpine wraith]

get in line

we just want to talk

[sly shore]

[alpine wraith]

1

[sly shore]

1hp

[young path]

I’m curious to see funnel options with tornado… couple pulls in particular I’m thinking will get deleted…

Good example being necromancer with the double marauders from the bridge in NW after 1st boss

[alpine wraith]

yes tornado is not bad as deathstalker

[young path]

And if DS ends up being not too great in keys, atleast we have BP +20% (nice little bump for trickster)

[alpine wraith]

because you dont shadowstrike on 3t+

just remember to not krangle symbols with it

i did one video on df about that but i can do another one

[young path]

Please do, I genuinely appreciate any extra perspective as not many play the spec or know what how to min/max it

I take advice wherever I can

Does Noxious still play? I used to watch the crap out of his videos

[cerulean beacon]

whew what a buff

[young path]

But now I’m just aging myself lol

[young path]

What u mean?

[cerulean beacon]

5,5% on ST with deathstalker seems nice

actually nutty wtf the spac was already strong on pure ST

[tidal python]

Outlaw still sims higher no?

[young path]

I’m excited, may the wow gods pass transmitters to all with vault and hotfixes

[cerulean beacon]

How come actually?

[tidal python]

No idea tbh, the spec is just on radioactive crack

[cerulean beacon]

I was under impression the numbers were still skewed due to that bug from a month ago

[young path]

I’m probably mistaken but the output of those sims rely heavily on rtb buffs that may or may not manifest into reality

[tidal python]

Sub's minimum is still lower than Outlaw's minimum though

[cerulean beacon]

With KIR you’re quite likely to play at 6 buffs

[young path]

Yah, I stopped attempting outlaw quite some time ago so you’re probably on point

Too hooked on the shadow ningee-star

I have like zero interest playing anything else… I’m not too shabby at assassination but want to stab my own eyeball when I play it

[topaz raptor]

i thought they just cooked the apl far beyond what a human is ordinarily capable of

[wind canopy]

You're also assuming perfect conditions where you don't have downtime

[young path]

Haha… that’s been my thought about it…

Or should I say my ability to play it

[lilac stag]

Nah. You’re capable of it if the situation is patchwerk fight. That’s just not normal for raid encounters.

[frank bobcat]

Might be a dumb question but Trickster still ahead on 2 target (I.e. silken court)? Any world where we play DS on that fight due to the damage amp phases?

[stark zealot]

will sub be on par with sin now?

[jaunty umbra]

sub is better

[ebon tiger]

tbh unless we're getting omega gapped I'm sticking with trickster. at least on silken court prog

[hazy breach]

It does look like its gonna be a bit of a gap, the buffs are really big

[fallow nimbus]

Let's all switch to DS so they buff trickster for 11.1

[tribal blade]

i think i'd rather complain more so the wow community makes more memes about the sub rogue disc

😉

[pliant topaz]

I am personally looking forward to pressing black powder on queen p3 to cleave the acolytes

[vestal escarp]

you're not losing dmg on boss this time!!

[wind canopy]

They should just buff sub

[topaz raptor]

another 20% black powder should do the trick

[vestal escarp]

legit another 20 on BP and its a ST buff for sub

[tawny river]

What hero talent are people gonna play on Mythic Ansurek come buffs?

[autumn flame]

Assassination

dn on sub is so ass to play

[edgy zenith]

So DS is 5.5% ahead according to sims, but still has the bugs so it’s like 2.5% ahead come Tuesday, yeah?

[hazy breach]

No its not 5.5% ahead according to sims

Its +5.5%

[edgy zenith]

Oh, so it’s just 5.5% ahead come Tuesday

Nice

(kill me)

[hazy breach]

So its like 9% or so ahead in sims, but maybe 2% or so of that is the bug

Its very firmly ahead

Should be ahead in aoe too

[edgy zenith]

Enough to make DS the M+ spec too?

[hazy breach]

Numerically maybe

[edgy zenith]

Man I hate pressing BP

Remove BP

[hazy breach]

Well BP does more on 2 targets than evis with nimble does

[edgy zenith]

No shot

[hazy breach]

BP is like 85% of evis damage

[edgy zenith]

We are in the most cursed timeline

Okay so if BP is banging THIS hard. You think we’re taking that rupture talent too?

In DS tree?

Don’t remember name

[hazy breach]

Well no

Because it doesnt work with shadowed finisher

The crit thing is more damage

Its still just bp damage

[edgy zenith]

Mmm

[vestal escarp]

Momentum buffed bp hits as hard as evis

[hazy breach]

The 85% was with momentum, but ye its decently close

[bleak wind]

is BP still bugged with finality

[hazy breach]

Yes

But from the sims ive ran it doesnt seem worth it because the ST loss is too big

[bleak wind]

did you look into the dark brew vs rotten things

[hazy breach]

Ye thats what i meant

Its better on constant high target cleave, but way worse on ST

[bleak wind]

so you still go rotten

in raid that is

[hazy breach]

ye

[bleak wind]

what about tea

[hazy breach]

Seems fine, but not better

I havent looked if its worth to use for energy, but last time i checked that was way worse than macroing with dance

So i very much doubt that it would be

[bleak wind]

aight, so no changes, just despair feels

[hazy breach]

Might be worth to drop VT for tornado on some fights

But then again, the best use of tornado is unironically to use it outside cds

Because otherwise you end up wasting so much cp from shadowcraft

We love synergy

[bleak wind]

ye like the ones we have with rupture

fits so well

what happened with that wow council thing, is there no one there that could push things in the right direction

[hazy breach]

To me current trickster gameplay is like the smoothest and most fun the spec has been in years, so they could just nerf deathstalker and thats a good enough direction for me

But that seems to not be the case

[bleak wind]

ye I kinda like it as well

[hazy breach]

Obv there could be better talent variation etc, but the gameplay loop feels really good if we just get rid of the occasional naked symbols

[bleak wind]

not the biggest fan of the dance timings since its more or less what dust did as well and the goal was to escape from it but eh

[hazy breach]

But oh well

[short radish]

instructiosn unclear, symbols cooldown increased by 10 seconds

[lilac stag]

Clearly the problem is that with Trickster, a few too many players started to actually play Sub. Can’t go past that threshold of 60 so in an effort to prevent a catastrophic event like over 100 sub players they decided to take fun away.

[bleak wind]

theres about 5-6 times more survival hunters than sub rogues and I think that speaks for itself

[lilac stag]

they made SV fun and OP

we got 4 weeks of fun
They got 4 weeks of OP

[tribal blade]

blizz is mistaking the fact that DS is not being played because it's numerically off

they see nobody is playing DS, and assume it's because it needs buffs

[spice matrix]

Are we going to be using the DS build in raid thats on Wowhead now that takes gloomblade or has anything changed recently?

[tribal blade]

when in reality it was almost identical to trickster in ST, just that trickster feels infinitely better to play

so given the choice everyone chose trickster

[bleak wind]

not really sure what the problem is tbh, to me it seems like deathstalker was designed more towards assa and trickster more towards sub

[tribal blade]

the DS buff highlights the fact that blizz didn't look into this at all, pretty much just a surface level glance

and the way they decided to buff DS highlights it as well haha

[bleak wind]

yep pretty much

[ebon tiger]

these weird buffs/tweaks are iterative steps for an easier rework in 11.1

[tribal blade]

holy jesus, just tested DS on the dummies to see what we're in for

cd on sectec is incredibly scuffed

[smoky aspen]

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[half comet]

what do you swap from replicating shadows

improved shadow tech

or Wm

i forgot

[lilac stag]

You should have WM already

[tribal blade]

noo leave me alone viktor

[pliant topaz]

deathstaklers return was inevitable

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/wisp-kitten-rags-to-riches-animal-rescue-cat-ugly-gif-10134438641835288762

[hoary sun]

Hit some dummies to see what DS feels like on aoe, holy fuck man

[lilac stag]

lol that last part can be taken one of two ways in here.

[hazy breach]

Glorious

[tribal blade]

@pliant topaz rewatching S1 of arcane

hype

[lilac stag]

I ran a 10 dawn breaker for vault. I had immediate regrets once key started.

[hazy breach]

Dawn is a good key though

[tribal blade]

oh no what happened

[pliant topaz]

its litealrly pure cinema

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[lilac stag]

Pugging before reset on NA.

[tribal blade]

i didn't have enough time to rewatch S1 before S2 was out, so i'm doing it in reverse order

but no regrets so far

[limber axle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

haha fair enough

[hazy breach]

I liked S1 a bit more than S2, but its still good

[tribal blade]

i didn't honestly like how S2 ended, but ep 1-6 i loved

[lilac stag]

now hitting acceptance of likely playing DS on Ovi.

this is a dark timeline

[tribal blade]

S2 also has my favorite fight scene of the entire series

[pliant topaz]

episode 7 season 2 was my favorite episode in the entire show tbh

[tribal blade]

i'm hearing a lot of people say that yeah

[pliant topaz]

the dance scene made me wanna bea better man

[tribal blade]

haha!

wholesome

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-sypha-belnades-castlevania-yeah-yep-gif-6998827978471600752

I think we rewatch Castlevania this week.

lol DK & Mages changes went live already, not all numbers match initial blue post.

Prayer Circle for Trickster 🙏🏻📿

[tribal blade]

blizz accidently buffs the wrong tree, coup, unseen blade and nimble now deal 45% more damage

[lilac stag]

I love how FDK tuning was supposed to shift aoe to st profile. Instead aoe and st got a 1.5% buff.

they’re really just throwing darts blindly at a board for tuning.

[pliant topaz]

blizzard tuning

and general decision making

[hazy breach]

Clearly sub needs +6%

Inb4 sub aura nerf in .7

[hazy breach]

That would be this for sure

[tribal blade]

don't say it, they'll hear you

[hazy breach]

Instead of nerfing deathstalker

Its gonna be an aura nerf

[wind canopy]

I'm watching Aki stream Queen prog right now and sub def needs buffs

[hazy breach]

DK also famously needs buffs for aoe, nobody is playing frost in keys

[wind canopy]

YEP

[hazy breach]

Its just a 1%er

But still

[pliant topaz]

i personally cant wait for the ring to be bis for all of 11.1. then they nerf it in 11.1.5 and we just dont scale and end up being worst spec in raid.

some say I can see the future

they call me the cope jesus

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/absolute-cinema-cat-absolute-cinema-cat-gif-8724746330989628604

[iron fjord]

that's criminal sir

[tribal blade]

rewatch, not watch for the first time 😉

[iron fjord]

police turning around right this second

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/driving-look-around-sunglasses-cop-police-gif-15339166

[rough sigil]

Hey can anyone tell me exactly how Elusiveness talent works?

[hazy breach]

It makes feint and evasion give you 20% dmg reduction to everything

It does not stack with the 40% from feint by default

But if feint doesnt work, its a 20% dmg reduction if you spec elusiveness

[rough sigil]

But lets say you pop evasion and feint is it additive on aoe?

[hazy breach]

Multiplicative

40% from feint and 20% from evasion

[rough sigil]

Oh ok got it.

[hazy breach]

0.6 * 0.8 = 0.48, so 52% total reduction

[rough sigil]

Thank you very much

[strange chasm]

im telling you next reset we will be eating

top dps

[edgy zenith]

hmmm, so I think saving CB for second sectech was only Trickster tech, yeah?

back to using CB on CD with first sectech?

[hazy breach]

Nop

Or well

Making sure youre always getting it inside your flag

Is the important part

[lucid jackal]

What are the "quirks" of deathstalker over trickster btw. Still sectec first, but also you can still start dances at 9 seconds left

Is it just clear the witness? Is that the only quirk really

[hazy breach]

Have to use darkest night at 7 cp immediately

[lucid jackal]

Like highest prio finisher

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lucid jackal]

What if it procs in Ur dance

Like first evis 9 sec on sectec, but then it's dn

[hazy breach]

Yes

[lucid jackal]

Do u dn then sectec

[hazy breach]

Yep

[lucid jackal]

Is that it

Clear the witness and rush evis with dn?

[edgy zenith]

think so

[hazy breach]

Rush 7 cp, so you sometimes end up striking at 5 or 6 in dance

[lucid jackal]

That's not terrible, despite being boring

At least it's only st

[edgy zenith]

so Eleem, you just sending CB on first sectech next week with DS?

[lucid jackal]

Wdym clueless

[edgy zenith]

was messing around with CB on second all of last week

felt good

there was liek a slight min/max of using CB on second sectech near end of flag

and just holding it as a 90s CD

but unsure now since we aren't using trickster

[hazy breach]

With momentum of despair up from deathstalker BP does like 85% of the damage eviscerate does

[lucid jackal]

Yeah but cleave

[hazy breach]

So its very possible deathstalker is the play on pretty much every boss in the raid.

[lucid jackal]

Awe man!

[hazy breach]

Well on 3 targets

Deathstalker bp does more than nimble evis

[edgy zenith]

wait does this mean Mandate is higher prio than contract now

[hazy breach]

Assuming you have fw up

No

[edgy zenith]

lingering isn't that big?

[hazy breach]

It doesnt line up as well anymore

[edgy zenith]

mm

[hazy breach]

Wasnt great before, but its worse now

[lucid jackal]

How much is trickster bug

[hazy breach]

Not sure which one youre talking about

[lucid jackal]

Parry

[hazy breach]

For the raid?

Idk not that much

[edgy zenith]

!bug

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[hazy breach]

But it also depends a bit on if they buff singular focus by 45%, one would assume that they would since its plague damage

Its very silly to buff it because thats effectively a "double dip" buff

Theyre probably doing it though

[hazy breach]

Its also got less CDR since no coup, so you end up using another naked symbols roughly every 5 minute

As you dont have dance

[edgy zenith]

is that 5.5 assuming double dip or

[hazy breach]

Singular doesnt do anything on ST

[edgy zenith]

o that's the funnel talent, right?

nvm

[round latch]

the biggest funnel!!

[brisk onyx]

[sour stump]

What trinkets are good for sub?

[hazy breach]

Transmitter

[sour stump]

Brood egg any good?

[tribal blade]

yes it's good

but it's annoying to use

so i wouldn't bother

[sour stump]

Already got one from last heroic cache week

[tribal blade]

it's like +0.2% dps over contract for me

and contract you think 0 to get basically the same use

[lucid jackal]

Most of these fights have enough forced movement that u dont really have to think about ovinax egg fwiw

[sour stump]

Sub can use the fist weapon in the offhand yeah? Is it worth to do that with contract?

[hazy breach]

Technically yes your spells work

But no

Its horrible to not have a dagger in your offhand

!oh

[wicked jolt]

Shadow Techniques is not normalized and this makes a slow weapon (axe/sword/mace/fist) in offhand significantly weaker and almost never worth equiping.

[sour stump]

Good to know

[lucid jackal]

WAIT

DEATHSTALKER GOES GLOOMBLDE

Oh its so back

[hazy breach]

I mean if its literally pure ST

If theres ever another target you def need the storm applies FW talent

Which means you cant have gloom

[lucid jackal]

I feel trickster is still just better for the actual AOE fights

Like, ovinax

Idrc about BP damage

But I guess U could just play st build and go deathstalker hmmmmm

[hazy breach]

Deathstalker has significantly more prio

[lucid jackal]

hm

[alpine wraith]

likely trickster only fight might be court if red team as you cant super storm to get more cps always but yea

even on ovi nax when 2t+ enter the fray BP just does a lot of dmg

[tame terrace]

so pretty much soon trickster is the only hero talent rogue never touched

[hazy breach]

Could also be that theyre just not buffing what they said theyre gonna buff

Or buff something extra

[alpine wraith]

yea we will need NA sacrifice people

[hazy breach]

Who knows

[alpine wraith]

if they dont buff singular and something else

wellp time to work

[tame terrace]

wild they buffed sub ds

[short radish]

is there a write up of the DS rotation for tomorrow?

[hazy breach]

Use darkest night asap everytime

[short radish]

[tame terrace]

play normally but darkest night 7cp shit

ez

[lucid jackal]

and clear the witness

[tribal blade]

i like to keep my witnesses

[tame terrace]

u better clear them 😠

[tribal blade]

so i make my court sentencing on hard mode

[short radish]

oh for fucks sake

i forgot about CTW

why is DS such a dog shit spec

[hazy breach]

Ye ig ctw is more relevant now that it does more damage.

[lucid jackal]

clear the wtiness kinda chill

[hazy breach]

As long as youre not using it in symbols

So you dont actually use it that often

[tribal blade]

hunt them down about to be doing stupid damage

for doing literally nothing

just existing

[short radish]

CTB works same way as agony for warlocks right? that you dont to drop rupture ever

[hazy breach]

What

[hazy breach]

Ye ideally you dont let it drop

But it also doesnt do that much damage

[short radish]

kk

[muted agate]

OMG!!!!!!!!

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/kill-me-drink-bleach-gif-22890796

[gloomy cradle]

heyo do we macro symbols to dance anymore?

u know cuz we have 3 charges any all

or can it fire off 2 at a time?

[hazy breach]

Would not recommend, as you do not want to be using them at the exact same time all the time

!sod This will prevent you from using sod twice

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[pliant topaz]

would you recommend now running Tornado > VT for queen?

[hazy breach]

Unironically might be ok if not everybody breaks themselves out

But probably not

But also like, bruh

[pliant topaz]

lmao

weird thing is, tornado might make the spec feel less bad

it can help get you some cdr

to ocmpensate for coup

[hazy breach]

Ye

But you also have to play tornado

So you win some you lose some

[pliant topaz]

lesser of 2 evils ig

[vale pine]

petition for a tornado redesign

[scarlet heath]

I'd like lower energy cost if anything

[lucid jackal]

👎

Tornado should just be 30 energy

Idgaf, make it a broken talent

It just feels so bad being infinite energy

[silver yarrow]

Can you play ST Sub with Mastery/ Crit stats?

[tribal blade]

it's not ideal but you should be mostly fine

[pliant topaz]

sure its not a good talent and has horrible ineractions (quite litearlly wastes full sht refunds, also first tick of tornado consumes both charges of rotten)...

but if there are multiple targets, it gets u a bit of cdr

regarless its lose lose compared to trickster

[short radish]

nah thats just sub design

EIther you are doing giga damage or no damage
Either you have infinite energy or you are starved on energy

[hybrid bluff]

The energy costs are no problem
Its a burst talent so u combinate it always with Dance into Symbols so u got ur energy back and ur next 4gcds ll give u energy back

[alpine wraith]

you actually dont use tornado and dance together almost at all

unless you know what you are doing and use symbols 3 secs later

[warm depot]

hey what do we think about sub after tomorrow?

[scarlet heath]

unless I am missing something, you use tornado outside dance for CDR reduction mostly

which is why the energy cost feels so shit

[lucid jackal]

Probably over buffed

[vale pine]

the change makes no sense to me

but well

[vestal escarp]

Dangerous buffs

Some stuff that doesnt scale/interact with the spec got buffed

And if it's too much the nerfs are gonna go elsewhere

[topaz raptor]

yeah

we're ready for the black powder buff

catch me in the mists of tirna scithe making TORNADOS

[sinful sluice]

we running DS for m+ next patch??

[hybrid bluff]

No. We ll play DS again in pure ST like Princess

[sinful sluice]

if we dont use DS next patch despite the patch

maybe they will add another 3000% dmg buff to powder again

[lime wigeon]

Not all buffs/nerfs are there to change up the status quo, but to make it less punishing to play what you want to play

[sinful sluice]

well tbh i kinda liked DS in mythics

shuriken storm -> rupture x7 times was kinda satisfying to do

not being saracstic btw

was actually fun

[lime wigeon]

Then play it, that choice will have just about no impact on if you succeed or not in the dungeon

[sinful sluice]

well it did 0 dmg but still

[keen dome]

I'm curious how it'll feel, and our boss dam moments with it.

[fluid tusk]

So trickster is still the go-to spec for m+?

[alpine wraith]

likely deathstalker will do quite well but for it to shine you would need big pulls

if you go w mode 3-4 or 5 mobs a time it is whatever what yo play

although funnily enough it might do even more ST and we were already quite beastly there

[pale python]

Can anyone explain why they changed the Flaggelation icon so that there is no difference in icon colour when the spell is active or on cooldown?

[short radish]

same reason that pistol shot shows as the out of range icon color even when youre in range

because blizzard can

[alpine wraith]

becausese red means danger and danger is bad so now it is shitty grey

[short radish]

and you will appreciate their great game design

[pale python]

😄

this is sooooo little thing, but sooooooooooooooo anoying

btw, as the sub fix coming in for Deathstalker I have a question, do I use fans during the Dance + Symbol window for Clear the Witness, or Im using fans only outside Dance+Symbol window?

[hazy breach]

Only use storm outside symbols

[lilac stag]

3565724 - that’s the old flag icon number. Change your WA to override the icon.

[mint swift]

If they buff it by 20%

It’s what

The third time they have done it this expac

[coarse nexus]

did the buffs change what target count we press powder on?

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[thorny kestrel]

ok so DS opener is same but after 1st evisc, you use storm because of clear the witness?, then build to 6+ rupture, then continue as usual

[mint swift]

How many CDs does sub have rn

[thorny kestrel]

2 big cds, 2 shorter ones

i mean that you apply as a buff / window

[hazy breach]

Theres practically no difference between that storm and strike

[thorny kestrel]

so we don't use storm then if we don't want to

just do the usual opener

[hazy breach]

ye

[thorny kestrel]

kk ty

[hazy breach]

The only reason the sim does it is because its a lot of extra text in the code for practically no difference

[thorny kestrel]

got it. i like van / strike anyway, thanks

[mint swift]

Fair

Assa has like

3 I guess

4 maybe if you count tea or shiv

[pale python]

I have noticed that Sim is suggesting that I have 60% mastery, losing some versatility %, but I also notice that most of the rogues that are in the top 5% are around 50% mastery and 20% versatility? Is it something with Sim, or Am I missing something?

[lilac stag]

Vers lets you survive

Top keys are about survival as much as damage

[pale python]

how bout mythic raid progression?

same rule?

[lilac stag]

Vers higher in ST stat weights more than likely

Just equip you best gear

Don’t worry about secondary stats

[pale python]

Well I have 630, and I'm just juggling the rings and trying to min-max my stats 🙂

[lilac stag]

so run top gear and be done with it

[short radish]

healers heal.

[lilac stag]

If it has vers/mastey it’s likely going to beat a similar piece that has crit or haste. It’s not too complicated.

[short radish]

and the vers that you already have

is going to be way more than the random class stacking mast/crit

[mint swift]

He is lying

Stack speed

fastest character faster cleara

Simple maths ;)

Jk ofc

[lilac stag]

speed is not a secondary stat

[pale python]

fast shadow fuck boy

[lilac stag]

It’s a tertiary stat.

[mint swift]

Fuck your right

My joke ruined

https://tenor.com/view/sad-cat-sunakook-tired-exhausted-gif-24687868

[vestal escarp]

To know if singular focus is dipping in this plague dmg buff we have to wait wednesday i guess

Cause if it does the combo bp buffed + focus buffed should not be underestimated

[wide magnet]

can you link the dataset here

like who is running 50% mast

nobody is really playing sub in high keys and rogue does not need vers to survive so i’m more inclined to infer it’s about stat budget and ilvl

[hazy breach]

A. It just doesnt matter that much how your vers/mastery is spread out

[wide magnet]

correct

[hazy breach]

B. Pretty much every single item is super heavy vers and a tiny bit of mastery

So naturally youll have higher vers

Just because theres no option not to as long as youre using vers+mastery items

[wide magnet]

ya

justification given was "vers = survival"

and i think this is misleading at best

[pale python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7wK1fEpdWm64nfvbMNc54K - here is my sim

[wide magnet]

ya you just don't have the items that would have you prefer the vers

is all

[pale python]

I was simming to compare with this ring

that gives me 20% versta

[wide magnet]

ring sucks

[upbeat sorrel]

crit is bad for sub innit

[vestal escarp]

No, but less valuable than vers mast

[short radish]

i have more speed than haste. it is a main stat for me.

[vale pine]

they call you sonic

[fallow nimbus]

But not super sonic

[tribal blade]

i slightly disagree, the extra vers makes a big difference

most of the time it's not noticable, but it becomes very noticable at higher key levels when there's massive amounts of damage going out

esp on certain bosses

[wide magnet]

idk play elusiveness

[tribal blade]

well yeah

[wide magnet]

this class is invincible

[tribal blade]

i wouldn't exactly say that

but yeah feint goes hard

[wide magnet]

doesnt matter....

not outlaw not sin......

plink182

[round latch]

[tribal blade]

most sin rogues are running almost no vers atm

so sub basically is taking a flat 10% less damage than sin at all times

which is very significant

[wide magnet]

not significant enough to be a budgeting factor

[tribal blade]

for sub? it's not like we lose damage by getting more vers

[wide magnet]

i don't disagree that vers is gucci just think that "survivability" to most players (and in the same vein stats entirely) exists as this kind of vague and nebulous concept to assign reasoning to things

which is the game's fault ultimately

it feels good to take less damage but if you do not die that's all that matters

top top keys you can assign blame to defensives or healer because the people you are playing with are names instead of classes

i love to blame my healer for not healing me

speaking of getting vers gapped

?

[leaden prairie]

feint

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[leaden prairie]

feint is even off gcd now

if you aint pressing feint

[tribal blade]

pressing feint pretty free now

[wide magnet]

does pressing feint prevent me from getting triple ticked

[tribal blade]

well you'd be taking 40% less damage from all those hits

[wide magnet]

i don’t wanna hear it brother energy is dps

check the metes i’m down bad

[tribal blade]

something something dead dps is no dps

something

[leaden prairie]

ye cause you are dead

[wide magnet]

game works properly i live

already dmed a blizzard employee to bitch

[vale pine]

thats a damage loss, why would i use it (i am joking)

[leaden prairie]

you are getting triple ticked cause thats how that mech works tho

At least I think

[wide magnet]

there’s 5 circles why would there be three damage events

[tribal blade]

NOW we're cooking

[leaden prairie]

Idk but it's always like that xd

[tribal blade]

that mechanic so free for rogues, everyone else is panicking about how to live it

[wide magnet]

ok well i feinted all the other ones and whoever implemented that mechanic is evil

[tribal blade]

and you just press feint and breeze through

[leaden prairie]

Oh isn't it like

The damage increase

Based on the set

Like first set second then third

[wide magnet]

is that real

[leaden prairie]

Ikd

Never read the book

I just press feint cuh

[tribal blade]

i honestly have no idea because never had to look into how to live that

because have feint for every single one

so easy

[wide magnet]

i’m just bitchin

developers don’t even care about intent anymore…

what a sad day

[leaden prairie]

there is not 5 tho

ever

cause i think tank cant get them

there might actually only be 3

xd

idk

[wide magnet]

hmmmmm

[leaden prairie]

would make sense the way the mehc is worded

[wide magnet]

pretty sure the tank gets a circle

[wide magnet]

but not willing to put money on it

[leaden prairie]

random enemmy

damage to everyone

so each bubble deals aoe to everyone

[tribal blade]

well no matter how it works, you can press feint and live every time 👍

[wide magnet]

👍

[leaden prairie]

feint is op no cap

[wide magnet]

correct

[void hound]

(when it works)

[wide magnet]

always works

never play cheat

[void hound]

i hate how inconsistent it is

[remote shuttle]

Yo buds, can't find a page with incoming changes on sub/ds... Can someone pls link?

[tribal blade]

are you guys still running 1 feint charge on pirate town

[keen dome]

Spin to live

[wide magnet]

vengeful retreat supposedly removes snares

[leaden prairie]

idk if we ever did that

its litteraly free to take 2

just in case

[tribal blade]

i think you guys did during DF

for a bit

[leaden prairie]

90% of the talents up there are useless

[tribal blade]

haha yeah true

[leaden prairie]

in df it was a bit more restrictive

rn i can take everything and more

[tribal blade]

yeah feels nice to be able to branch out there a bit

[void hound]

class tree utility choices are kind of a joke

ngl

[leaden prairie]

for rogue ye

[void hound]

almost had a stroke when i opened the paladin tree

[leaden prairie]

the shaman tree is crazy aswell

[tribal blade]

excuse me sir, 2% leech in stealth

[leaden prairie]

so many situational choices for m+

[void hound]

(doesnt work in dance)

[tribal blade]

it's so massive

10/10 new talent

[leaden prairie]

ok but

whats the worse rogue talent

[void hound]

rogue class tree be like

[leaden prairie]

this gotta be the worse rogue talent

[severe prism]

When to chose Deathstalker or Trickster in m+ ? From my (low) understanding of it
Deathstalker is more st/prio target and more big aoe
Trickster is like always pretty good and better in cleave (so it's probably the best in most keys)
Am i right ? (considering coming tuning)

[tribal blade]

lol yeah this is the ultimate stinker

are you guys still gated by this talent

[leaden prairie]

no because the talent under it also giga stink

luckyli

lucklily

luckely

[tribal blade]

oh i see yeah