nice
#subtlety
turbid saddle
also isnt it supposed to not use the stored cps when u have blades active?
since it gets u full cp anyways
tribal blade
i'm not so sure spymasters is much better
seeing the "I LOST MY SPYMASTERS" any time a ranged dies is funny
short radish
true but the only hoop they have to jump through to use trinket
is not die
which is a very low bar
rustic geyser
realistically any time we have to think beyond "press button" there's always some kind of complaint. That trinket from the boss in the BFA underwater raid (wow names are escaping me atm) is a good example. You basically never thought about it, just had to press it twice and still people avoided it so they didn't have to think.
rustic geyser
puzzle box I refused to use
brother, you think I'm going to stop my adad spam?
HELL
NO
short radish
hahaha
rustic geyser
I'm ngl I think I've spent so long adading that if i stopped i wouldn't know if the circle was on me or not anymore
somewhere in me my internal check for "x effect is on you" is when it follows my adad
those bosses that give you debuffs on movement... actual hell
short radish
ugh yeah
unkempt trench
What's this Akaari's Soul pet/item? This sub rogue just pulled 1.6m dps at Court at 623 ilvl and like 300k of his dps is from this Akaari's Soul???? Should I be getting this?
hazy breach
Its secret technique
rustic geyser
What's this Akaari's Soul pet/item? This sub rogue just pulled 1.6m dps at Court...
You didn't know that sub is a pet class?
short radish
hazy breach
WHATS THE TECHNIQUE
Because it does big damage, and we cant have people knowing about it
short radish
edgy zenith
a tasty WA I edited
there you go
will show your Evis, Coup, and Sectech dam
as a little popup
plush roost
its like 100% worth it to run mad queens on court over void reapers contract yea?
edgy zenith
its like 100% worth it to run mad queens on court over void reapers contract yea...
contract is quite good on 2 target compared to Mandate
I think if you have both same ilvl, I would use mandate, but they are both very good
fair stump
what the f uck
short radish
since sdance and vanish give us a DR does that technically make it a defensive?
lucid jackal
Not technically, literally
Vanish kinda sucks for damage. I mostly hold it for utility
wind canopy
Yeah, it’s one of the reasons why the TCs talk about how tanky sub is
alpine wraith
yea
urban ravine
Vanish kinda sucks for damage. I mostly hold it for utility
and it's better than making it a mandatory part of rotation
wind canopy
5% DR from Fazed + 10% from Fade to Nothing + standard DR from vers like 10% DR from the 20% you might have = a lot of DR right there alone. Add deadened nerves and elusiveness and damn, tanky.
urban ravine
5% DR from Fazed + 10% from Fade to Nothing + standard DR from vers like 10% DR ...
dont tell blizzard please 😦
wind canopy
It’s fine. People still prefer sin and outlaw over sub so… 
urban ravine
It’s fine. People still prefer sin and outlaw over sub so… <:peeposhrug:65738226...
somehow i've enjoyed sub the most in this season, never played it before
and people might invite you into keys accidentally thinking that you are sin
wind canopy
urban ravine
it's not, most of the people just follow trends
i've seen a 10 key party with protpally, enh, frost dk, and disc looking for aug
level of insanity
wind canopy
They see people in the top keys or MDI running specific specs, they’ll follow that like sheep
tribal blade
Is sub that terrible at keys tho
sub is good, i've beaten meta dps using it
the tankiness is also very noticable
tribal blade
i was pretty much playing almost mostly sin for a bit, and when i transitioned back into using sub for stuff i immediately noticed i could take hits that would kill/proc cheat on sin
honesly sin's aoe is pretty fun because you have limitless energy and you're doing monster dam, even w/o cds
but the ST in M+ talents is hot garbage, i hate it
so sub feels overall more fun
short radish
yeah
i dont mind the downtime in sub
because im preparing for big dam
downtime in sin is just
dont get to play the game lol
tribal blade
dont get to play the game lol
yeah exactly
as soon as you can't put bleeds on a 2nd target sin is just in the dumps
heady quartz
sub is good, i've beaten meta dps using it
Like I swear as well at 610, the burst has been really dank lol, it almost makes my 632 arms look bad
tribal blade
Like I swear as well at 610, the burst has been really dank lol, it almost makes...
the burst is very good, it's just offset by the forced downtime when we're getting everything back for next cd set
heady quartz
Secret tech be hitting for some unholy numbers
Yeah no symbols+ no SD = no fun allowed
tribal blade
sub on the meters is kinda wild in raid
because depending on where you wipe you're either high in dps or low
wipe right before next cd set= low dps
wipe right after a cd set= high dps
heady quartz
Really like it on silken for me haha, the amount of pad dmg is unholy
tribal blade
i'm on red so i think that means i don't get to pad as much
because of positioning
but not really that fussed
heady quartz
Mb this is mostly talking about normal / heroic. But not sure why sub gets such a bad rep, spec hits like a truck
The non reliance on haste is welcomed as well
tribal blade
Mb this is mostly talking about normal / heroic. But not sure why sub gets such ...
OH gotcha haha, yeah sub is awesome on court
sub just feels amazing because of cds lining up well
honestly sub doesn't do pad damage on court, it's all ethical
because you're dumping all your damage into the bosses and cleaving off them,
heady quartz
Oh by pad I mean its crazy huge numbers
tribal blade
hell yeah 😉
urban ravine
yeah it's not like ret pala sending storms - that looks more like a pad
heady quartz
Hitting a flag boosted full CP secret tech is jizz
urban ravine
yeah
i just love burst windows when you can just send it
not worrying about energy
heady quartz
I do feel sub can be highly punished if you mismanaged CDs ( thus poor perception)
But otherwise I would take it over outlaw and sin anyday imo
urban ravine
well it lines up pretty good
pearl swan
any1 have a Fazed simple weakaura?
urban ravine
the thing that might punish you - wrong timings to use CDs
when you dont reset sec tech and shadow dance
it tanks your dps and desyncs symbols from dance
but it's just knowledge of the fight
heady quartz
Yeah for sure, coming from warrior it's always very tempting to just send CDs but I have come to realize downtime is normal on sub
urban ravine
and seeing sectech crit - pure joy
short radish
any1 have a Fazed simple weakaura?
!wa
short radish
pick one of them - they should have a wazed WA in there
tribal blade
i use LE's, pretty simple
urban ravine
im using mainx one but it's for his twitch subs
tribal blade
main tracking for trickster is fazed debuff, flawless stacks and unseen blade stacks
you can likely get away with not seeing UB stacks
short radish
im using mainx one but it's for his twitch subs
sub with prime
graceful mulch
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue
fierce minnow
main tracking for trickster is fazed debuff, flawless stacks and unseen blade st...
in what way does tracking those effect your gameplay? i dont think you change your rotation no?
curiously the only thing of those i do track is unseen blades for coup but not the other 2 😄
tribal blade
in what way does tracking those effect your gameplay? i dont think you change yo...
you want to track fazed because if you coup w/o fazed up you'll not get the 5 stacks of flawless form
and you want to track flawless form mostly for nimble, because if flawless form is not up and you're spamming evis in aoe
you're basically doing no aoe
one of the most common mistakes by sub rogues early in the expac was not tracking flawless, and then they were wondering why their aoe dam was in the toilet
fierce minnow
yea true i do have a little glow for flawless form, but i dont really worry about it much
the fazed part is kinda like since i always open my dances with sectec first, it already applies fazed no?
tribal blade
flawless isn't really an issue in pure ST
it's just any time there's more than 1 target
tribal blade
the fazed part is kinda like since i always open my dances with sectec first, it...
yes it does
fierce minnow
i would be suprised if my fazed uptime was an issue when i just do the regular stuff
curious if i missed something
tribal blade
tracking flawless means you know when you need to start using backstab to proc it in aoe
and also stop using evis and start using BP until flawless is back up
fierce minnow
yea thats true
tribal blade
i actually have a sound cue for when flawless is 1 second off dropping haha
fierce minnow
smart
tribal blade
so i know without having to look
and start backstabbing
i did the same thing for caustic spatter on sin
fierce minnow
the most important thing to track is shadow technique stacks tho, to know when a reset of cp will happen beforehand... all that trickster stuff partly plays itself for the most part
theres some room to minmax, but you wont be totally useless if you just freestyle
tribal blade
yeah tracking sht is good too
i think fuu doesn't track it, or he at least said it's not so bad if you don't
but then you track sht and watch when the replicating bug happens in real time
and get to sit in a puddle of your own tears
fierce minnow
bro
that bug
yesterday i went out of RS for silken court because it drove me nuts
fierce minnow
mythic court
tribal blade
oh right
i'm using RS for now, honestly i can take it because i've played with it long enough haha
fierce minnow
fuck that talent man, its a literal dps loss to munch 7cp in damage amps imo
i thought it can take it, but its so much smoother if you dont have it
its not even funny
tribal blade
yeah it's pretty horrendous
fierce minnow
realz pls
tribal blade
i'm gonna try not using actually, you make a good point
fierce minnow
i just took shuriken storm talent for more aoe FW xD
fierce minnow
yeah you can
tribal blade
yeah next raid night i try not using RS
tribal blade
yes true
tribal blade
the thing is rupture does a lot of dammy, so when it spreads onto adds that's quite a bit of cleave
but yeah playing w/o the bug feels infinitely better
vestal escarp
short radish
alpine wraith
im using tfd instead of wm kinda like if it was m+
fierce minnow
based opener
alpine wraith
yea we have an aug and it is quite good with it
because you get 4 dances in a row kinda
haughty mural
realz deliver us from this evil
yes please
urban ravine
but yeah playing w/o the bug feels infinitely better
what bug? (sorry i live under a rock)
tribal blade
what bug? (sorry i live under a rock)
when talented in replicating shadows refunds from symbols sometimes come late
tribal blade
it's not really something you can play around reliably, so it seriously tilts people
urban ravine
so you lose CPs and resets
tribal blade
like kush used to play sub during S3 after the rework, and the RS bug was a factor in him moving away from the spec
urban ravine
based
tribal blade
the moment i see 7 CPs get munched by RS bug
urban ravine
i haven't had the problem happen too much, so not that annoyed
thank you for your work btw, helped me so much pick up the spec
tribal blade
fuu is a legend
urban ravine
fuu is a legend
based
vale pine
alpine wraith
he even part times as a bot in osu!
tribal blade
<:dracthyr_love:1002454142524067861>
i've been maining sub since wod, and remember coming in here during legion to see your rotational advice
so it's been..
10 years?
almost 10 years, damn
alpine wraith
yea we are old people
tribal blade
haha damn, and i still think of legion as a "new" expansion
haughty mural
like kush used to play sub during S3 after the rework, and the RS bug was a fact...
that this bug exists that long man :§
tribal blade
8+ years ye
time flies geez
vale pine
sadly yes
haughty mural
i've been maining sub since wod, and remember coming in here during legion to se...
almost the same
though i left the server when i did my year long wow break/abstinence
vestal escarp
2016 was 52 years ago
tribal blade
almost the same
though i left the server when i did my year long wow break/absti...
haha that was basically me when they nuked sub rogue during bfa
i actually unsubbed from the game for a while
there was no way i was gonna continue giving blizz money for that
haughty mural
for me there were private/personnel/mental issues when I stepped away
tbh i did roll hunter in bfa when they nuked sub
short radish
@tribal blade is sub still fucked in ara kara?
tribal blade
<@146180393941336064> is sub still fucked in ara kara?
the last time i used sub in there was a few weeks ago, so not sure
short radish
i'll report back i guess
tribal blade
but the damage was abysmal the last time
short radish
doing chill 10s
tribal blade
i just play sin in there now, which is actually pretty good because every single boss has adds that you can spread ruptures and get energy back
so you don't have to deal with shitty sin pure ST at all in ara
tepid trellis
i haven't had the problem happen too much, so not that annoyed
once is one too many
lilac stag
i haven't had the problem happen too much, so not that annoyed
Are you playing the game still? Or do you just not notice it with toaster pc? 
vale pine
Are you playing the game still? Or do you just not notice it with toaster pc? <:...
i play the game, but you learn to play around it
lilac stag
Playing around it vs it not happening are 2 very different things
vale pine
once is one too many
the bug will soon have its one year anniversary
shy ermine
I know it’s a low impact bug because of how small the player base is for sub
And you can technically not take the talent
But it made me not want to play sub in dungeons for ages
vale pine
the bug is difficult to fix
lilac stag
Further proof fuu the forever optimist with “its not that bad” answer for everything that’s a problem.
vale pine
else it would be fixed by now
vale pine
Further proof fuu the forever optimist with “its not that bad” answer for everyt...
i am a problem solver, if i find a problem i find a solution
lilac stag
easy to fix. Delete rs. Make a better talent.
gray zephyr
If there is no solution, there is no problem 🤪
vale pine
replicating is a good talent
lilac stag
not in its current form.
and if it’s broken for a year it’s not designed well
it was broken from day 1
but welcome to sub
Fuck all works as intended. 
gray zephyr
What is your take on PI? Are we good target for it at pull?
lilac stag
I’d like a well design and buggy car.
vale pine
What is your take on PI? Are we good target for it at pull?
we don't want pi
wanton portal
Hello, why is there so much diff between "gear compare" sim and "droptimizer" sim. I've got like 4-6% diff for the same item.
lilac stag
My house is well designed. Electrical kinda buggy. It’s fine.
gray zephyr
we don't want pi
Simply because others benefit more from it?
vale pine
yes
vale pine
we can't utialize it well
lilac stag
Hello, why is there so much diff between "gear compare" sim and "droptimizer" si...
Ilvls wrong?
gray zephyr
I tried it once yesterday and it felt good having tons of stored cp, so I had way more eviscerates in my opener
lilac stag
https://tenor.com/view/rose-bruno-mars-apt-apt-rose-bruno-mars-blackpink-rose-gif-248726392953163405
alpine wraith
something can be easy to fix but take some time
that is where the sub tax comes
we are in the why bother prio
tribal blade
https://tenor.com/view/my-descent-into-madness-is-complete-madness-going-insane-...
at least we have 1 optimist amidst the sea of us doomers
alpine wraith
in other news they broke dark ranger completely
and hunter is the most popular class
gray zephyr
at least we have 1 optimist amidst the sea of us doomers
I believe it will get fixed too
alpine wraith
so we are not alone
lilac stag
at least we have 1 optimist amidst the sea of us doomers
Is it really optimism or has the brain been washed so clean that it’s the default behavior?
tribal blade
pretty soon fuu will come out with his book on the power of positive thinking
alpine wraith
it is what it is
lilac stag
Can’t fix classes. Can fix low level timewalking in a week.
wanton portal
Ilvls wrong?
Idk maybe i'm dumb but it's the same settings for the two sim,
lilac stag
439 is not 639
lilac stag
Mistakes happen. Glad there was a FIX
alpine wraith
in other news sub masterrace
overtaking all the other filthy rogue specs
because they have more bad people
lilac stag
Oh. Need to see if they added VE entropic to ptr
vale pine
lol
alpine wraith
just if you play sv chances are you know how it works
lilac stag
I wonder if DK is still playing
tepid trellis
@jaunty heath do you?
lilac stag
alpine wraith
he played other classes now i think
fallow nimbus
Is ovinax egg simbait?
lilac stag
he played other classes now i think
He was going SV before expansion dropped.
alpine wraith
ovi nax is not simbait but also annoying to use
you want to keep 20 stacks of the stay and 11 of the move
so ideally you get to 20 and adadadada
lilac stag
I think sims run at 10 stack avg
alpine wraith
think there is a command for the stacks but i cba
lilac stag
I’m curious if the on use triggers the other trinket cd
alpine wraith
i can try one sec
it does not
problem is it has 2 min cd so it kinda messes up with transmitter but i guess depending on boss you can macro them
lilac stag
It’s just holding the stack so not crazy if you hold for 3 mins
lilac stag
sure
alpine wraith
but most of the time you can just aaaaad
aaaaad
ddddddddda
seems annoying as f tho
2/10 experience
you need to move in 1 direction at least 1 sec or so
for it to not count as staying in place
tribal blade
you need to move in 1 direction at least 1 sec or so
oh that's horrible
vagrant sinew
its server ticks, so if you ADAD theres a chance it wont register
alpine wraith
well a bit less
vagrant sinew
but doesnt happen that often
alpine wraith
if you keep going adadadad eventually you will miss some but not many
tribal blade
there's 0 chance i would use that trinket ever
hazy breach
you need to move in 1 direction at least 1 sec or so
You dont know youre beautiful, and thats what makes you beautiful
haughty mural
He was going SV before expansion dropped.
some in here almost did aswell 
lilac stag
I got baited back to rogue
void hound
You dont know youre beautiful, and thats what makes you beautiful
elmo rizz
alpine wraith
yea we stand together in egg and tornado hate
now that ER and sepsis are dead
and goremaw forgotten
hazy breach
More like gorenaw
haughty mural
add RS to the list
void hound
gorewho?
alpine wraith
RS is like an abusive father
you kinda have to live with it but sometimes it drinks and hits you
alpine wraith
AFTER ALL THE EXTRA DPS I GIVE YOU
this is how you treat me just because i was a little mad
??¿!!!
ok maybe this one is getting too real
lucid lily
Emotional trauma unlocked
alpine wraith
tbh i didnt get hit that much by my father it was mostly my mother
but at least this one can get bugfixed soonish
praydge
old venture
tbh i didnt get hit that much by my father it was mostly my mother
that's just brown mothering
they hit you because they love you
alpine wraith
they are masters at their craft worldwide
vestal escarp
very glad to see all three yellow bars close
can we keep this until end of last titan?
tyty xoxo
keen dome
outer parrot
can someone look at this and tell me what im doing wrong? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/g1cpTWX9MKrYambB#boss=2921&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=summary&source=30
apologies if this is the wrong channel
vale pine
you can start a log review channel by typing !log
outer parrot
!log
lilac stag
can someone look at this and tell me what im doing wrong? https://www.warcraftlo...
youre not using CDs at the right time. https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/the-silken-court
outer parrot
yeah i dont understand the logic of this spec at all, basically playing around secret tech
edgy zenith
the guides are pretty in depth. make sure you're sending CDs in the correct spots on Silken
lilac stag
youre on a dmg amp fight, and sending flag too soon
look at the actual fight timings
the link I sent literally breaks it down with pictures
outer parrot
omg pictures
its mostly the holding vs sending that i dont understand
even without dmg amp
lilac stag
do you understand how the fight works?
outer parrot
lol aight
lilac stag
if you don't that's the first thing that needs to get sorted.
if you dont understand the concept of sub...
!design
wicked joltBOT
Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".
thick cedar
Are people still running 0% haste?
thick cedar
That explains the 3% i have 😄
outer parrot
if you dont understand the concept of sub...
is this you https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/77164124?
comical really
lilac stag
what that someone with a visual disability has a better assa parse than you? but go on. if you want help you can give info back, if you dont want the help be my guest. if you understood how Court works you wouldn't be sending CDs before amp. THAT is what you're doing wrong
outer parrot
if u wanna talk about it talk about it in my thread i guess
still anvil
dismissing someone's valid attempts at giving advice because you think they are not perfect players is wild (nobody is, but theoretical knowledge also doesn't imply perfect executional abilities)
its rude and tbh i dont think it makes people want to help you
lilac stag
Not understanding when there are no parses for a spec that they swing wildly. I’m 100% casual mythic raider these days. We carry 28 people on the roster and I volunteer to sit on rekills so others can get loot and have fun. Doesn’t mean I don’t understand how the spec works or how to read combat logs and understand fight mechanics.
I’ve also had 27 eyes surgeries. My vision is an extra affix.
alpine wraith
also man i cant believe how seeing worse affects wow even more(it must be a nightmare)
visual clarity is already at an all time low
at least now we dont see 300 pets and effects
but still
mythic silken and ansurek are a clown fiesta
lilac stag
I’ve learned to adjust but it’s not fun learning.
I try to keep UI clean but some fights I really have to mess with color settings
Nameplate coloring in m+ helps me with some of the stuff I can’t see as well
outer parrot
dismissing someone's valid attempts at giving advice because you think they are ...
being condescending while having bad logs doesnt make me trust anyone, sorry he cant see, i have problems too, no idea what that has to do with me asking for specific advice on a fight
lilac stag
stop projecting. I asked you if you understood the fight
outer parrot
bro i dont care
lilac stag
good
outer parrot
i just want help with my log lol
lilac stag
and it was offered
And you tried to log bully.
Kekw
maybe someone else will come along and tell you the exact same thing
still anvil
yeah i dont understand the logic of this spec at all, basically playing around s...
- go understand the logic of this spec for a normal encounter without damage amps
- open e.g. lorrgs, disable all boss abilities except for the dmg amps and try to understand the logic of cds used for this fight in specific
spark tusk
yeah i dont understand the logic of this spec at all, basically playing around s...
From the ground up starting from the simplest, you build into secret technique. That's your unga bunga damage. When sectec isn't ready, you sustain by just slamming eviscerate.
You use Dance/Sod to boost your sectecs. Dance boosts with damage amps and gives you access to more combo points. Sod boosts with supercharger and more combo points and energy.
Cooldowns just give you access to more of the above, more damage amps and more combo points.
At the end of the day though it's just build to big sectecs, and eviscerate in between.
The rest is minutia of when you exactly use abilities and overlap, but the above is the essential logic
Hope that helps 
(Oh I haven't read any of the other messages in this conversation I just replied to this one so I don't have the vibes/context because the vibes seem scuffed. Hope we can repair those vibes)
edgy zenith
From the ground up starting from the simplest, you build into secret technique. ...
nah fuck 'em.
he doesn't want your help unless you're in rwf
spark tusk
Well only being AOTC helps maintain my sanity a bit more than otherwise
So that helps with providing advice
vestal escarp
chat everyday i wake up and check my wowhead notification just to see that blizzard posted hotfixes notes
spark tusk
At least for onboarding people
alpine wraith
cant ever go wrong with fixing hunter and mage problems
maybe some more ret changes possible
and another shadowpriest rework in the planning for sure
hazy breach
Well only being AOTC helps maintain my sanity a bit more than otherwise
Never heard about this sanity thing, is it neat?
alpine wraith
druid already got theirs
spark tusk
Never heard about this sanity thing, is it neat?
I think it's neat sometimes I eat potatoes
alpine wraith
solo and mystler
spark tusk
alpine wraith
never forgetti confetti
alpine wraith
potatoes are cool
lilac stag
alpine wraith
you can even make use of them to poison people
topaz raptor
Hoping for more black powder damage
alpine wraith
nightshade family
maybe they do a deathstalker angle
and buff finality by 3x
suddenly bp is better
lilac stag
So we fix the spec by turning BP into black potato? We toss spuds at all enemies?
alpine wraith
delet bp make our other finishers do more cool things
snd and rupture used to have mechanics
instead of only more autos and DAMAGE
alpine wraith
i miss snd working with mastery
was funny
imagine if we became even more supercharged as we were stacking flag
although one other change i would like is for blades to make us not miss autos again
would be very noticeable
vs now in aoe
lilac stag
Imagine supercharged sepsis
lilac stag
ye
alpine wraith
but never saw the light of day
hazy breach
My main gripe is that on the very rare occasions i have to press only symbols i feel kinda bad and rupture should interact in some way with our kit
alpine wraith
exepct for F&F
hazy breach
Besides that im pretty happy with how sub currently plays
alpine wraith
i would love if evis crits made rupture snack some ticks
lilac stag
well how 1/2 of sub plays
alpine wraith
or empower it somehow or whatever they want to do with it
lilac stag
We just ignore deathstalker
alpine wraith
only dmg is so bland
hazy breach
The bug makes deathstalker feel ass, without it its not nearly as bad
lilac stag
I’d like the aoe energy outside of dance to get tweaked.
alpine wraith
yea deathstalker with no bugs would be better but
the no bugs part will take a bit
now i dont think they will make lots of class changes with holiday season coming
and they dont have a tier to worry about this time
lilac stag
Ptr kept crashing on me
alpine wraith
so vacation time is going hard for them
lilac stag
Dino do you have .7 installed?
lilac stag
I just wanted to check if VE was working
alpine wraith
last time someone said it was messed up but it was some time ago
lilac stag
it was disabled
vale pine
meh
alpine wraith
actually when is firelands TW?
lilac stag
and tbf the portal is so nice
alpine wraith
the portal lets you do the ansurek no clip alone once
lilac stag
it’s quick and super obvious on ptr
hazy breach
actually when is firelands TW?
1:45 is still a bit scuffed
alpine wraith
1:45 is still a bit scuffed
seems kinda good for court and ansurek tho
but idk if i would bother
lilac stag
You would.
keen dome
Gotta let the loot RNG decide.
If you get it, it's meant and will be good. If you don't, trash trinket. 
alpine wraith
truee
lilac stag
@hazy breach where's our need more stealth guy? right now on PTR Vanish into real stealh crashes the game with a shadowstrike. 
lilac stag
Sub top rogue spec
assa sandbagging or everyone swapping for court and queen
topaz raptor
Assa is kinda dog on overall on the first 4
Good on rashanan but you can’t pad on adds
lilac stag
That’s an interesting take with an extended execute boss that’s ST due to fury wsrriors
keen dome
My incredible Ulgrax parse contributed, I'm certain.
topaz raptor
I didn’t have spatter on ulgrax so i was sandbagging assa this week
lilac stag
You could have made the difference
vale pine
Sub top rogue spec
it is atm good in raids ye
narrow shadow
it is atm good in raids ye
It's not too shabby in M+ either
If only shadowstrike applied a 6 second AoE silence
We would be good to go
hazy breach
Most top runs in keys dont even run iron wire anymore, assa just does a bit more damage than sub unfortunately
hazy breach
Ye a bit
uneven scarab
“Sustains 3 mill in aoe while we do 300k”
hazy breach
Well youre not doing 300k overall on a pack, at worst its like 1.2 or something
uneven scarab
Well yeah ofc
topaz raptor
What’s the nimble cap? 8?
hazy breach
Yes
lilac stag
Sub rogues trying to get bug fixes from Realz.
vestal escarp
every morning
topaz raptor
That’s really not that low, i suppose if it was soft capped then sub might be more suited for planned runs
Where you could pull for its cooldowns
vestal escarp
sub uncapped
topaz raptor
Fire mage style
vestal escarp
fr
edgy zenith
RS bug fix would go CRAZY
swift tinsel
a bugless sub would see me delete all of my other toons
hazy breach
Theres not that many pulls this season where you actually have more than 8 targets anyway
lilac stag
Ovi and that’s it
alpine wraith
assa sandbagging or everyone swapping for court and queen
it is funnier assa trying and failing at queen and court
lilac stag
Oh wait. Keys. NM
alpine wraith
so it draws the average lower
alpine wraith
not need sub
but if many people do wrose
it drags the good ones lower
like look at aoutlaw graph
tepid trellis
Do you even need sub on those bosses any longer?
nah they are the exact same
lilac stag
it drags the good ones lower
oh I get that. was thinking more people needlessly swapping
like I'm quite happy staying sub on Ovi and 1. Not Lagging and 2. Helping others with parry
lilac stag
gl
tepid trellis
lilac stag
stream but just put that on repeat to wash fuu
shut sonnet
dunno if im streaming it tho
wind canopy
bleak wind
now do boss damage
delicate gulch
!wa
strange chasm
time for first reclear for me, since i killed spider mommy
Queen is a joke. We one shot pulled on our reclear
sinful zephyr
how do you manage your cds for the shard-boss in stonevault? I have a bad time at that one
hazy breach
Hold flag for shield
Or rather, use it on pull > use it on second or use it on first > use it on third etc
Ideally you want dance up for the other shields
sinful zephyr
ok ..but killing those shards is pretty bad and uptime for energy also not too good due to the running around
alpine wraith
just get 3 or 4 buffs and slam with only cb should be ok
sinful zephyr
Ok thank you. I will try it like that next time
craggy quest
Hold flag for shield
is that the tech
i usually rip it on cd
for queen
until plat 2
Then i send it on tank add on the triple add platform
sick jackal
lilac stag
It’s fine. Contract likely a bit better.
2nd trinket is largely a shit show of mediocrity.
lucid lily
Which is why I’ve been using this hero track ritual knife since week one lol
tepid trellis
632 gamer coming through with only 2 finery buffs
can def feel that i havent played since we killed it
lilac stag
vestal escarp
Secrets kept are weapons wasted
uneven scarab
Ok zed
crystal blaze
im kinda interested in giving sub a shot but i have a few questions
and they mostly revolve around something i read on wowhead where it was described as good but everything its got is slightly worse than ass rogue
how big of a gap is there between sub and ass
wet echo
depends on the content you do, it can be either better or worse
topaz raptor
sub does far far more single target in keys which is pretty cool
wet echo
i reckon sub is better in lower-mid keys, but assa better for pushing
or maybe i'm just better at sub than assa so it reflects in performance
pliant topaz
632 gamer coming through with only 2 finery buffs
imagine playing the game
wind canopy
Gottem
pliant topaz
new tft set is a banger
topaz raptor
force meta streamer comps race against the rest of the lobby to complete your meta streamer comp
pliant topaz
or u know, play the game
pliant topaz
sheeesh youre actually playing the game fr fr
nice nice! huge stonks
Im personally losing my mind playing league then leveling in ffxiv to detilt
spark tusk
or u know, play the game
I feel attacked
spark tusk
Im personally losing my mind playing league then leveling in ffxiv to detilt
ffxiv is such a detilter
pliant topaz
ffxiv is such a detilter
ill hit u up when im done with the story! we shrimply prog all the ultimates
ez
its a fun game so far
spark tusk
I haven't played since last expansion
stopped halfway through EW
So I need to catch up on story and such
half comet
does cloak still drop webs on ansurek pulls/wrest
pliant topaz
So I need to catch up on story and such
lmk if u do! we'll play together!
spark tusk
DRG
Honestly RPR is a familiar feel to sub because of enshroud, the short burst of faster gcds feels like shadow dance
with a giga finisher like sectec
Was the main thing I played once it came out
keen dome
wish I could pay ffxiv sub
yes please
I should really go back and finish the Dawntrail MSQ..
hazy breach
Another 17 points 
vale pine
nicu gz
keen dome
Amazing work
alpine wraith
never surrender
grave marsh
coarse nest
Does anyone know if there is a way to tell when Thousand Cuts triggers?
Or if there is a way to know when Unseen Blade is ready?
coarse nest
Dang, I made a WA that tracks 20s from the damage event, and I'm working on tracking the next 2 after Secret Technique, but wasn't sure if this one was possible
hazy breach
We've complained a lot about it but no solutions from blizzard, its just completely hidden with no way to track
quiet pagoda
Why vanish insta brokes ? I cant use shadowstrike 😦
short radish
Why vanish insta brokes ? I cant use shadowstrike 😦
probably pressed it inbetween GCD and took damage
quiet pagoda
Its on dummies,,,
Happens always if I didnt press shadowstrike in 0,000001 sec after vanish, or it will break. I assume after vanish character keeps autoattacking
spark tusk
Dang, I made a WA that tracks 20s from the damage event, and I'm working on trac...
Nope. I tried looking for events for thousand cuts. If you want an example of this tracking I made a tracker for the predicted CD, but it can't account for Thousand Cuts resets https://wago.io/gNf0y7O9P
There aren't really any fancy tricks or apis to calls, it just has to construct the entire scenario and track/model everything
there's also a weird edge case where if you kill a target with a shadow strike that would proc blade, it actually starts the cd
which you have to account for
but there's no dmg event so you won't catch it without accounting for it specifically
short radish
what a fun designed ability
why couldnt blizzard just bake fazed into find weakness
spark tusk
I mean
yeah
But also like nowadays it doesn't really matter
there's no rotational impact to knowing the cd anymore I feel, there was at least some information given when we had specific rules around coup
but those are gone now so
mighty delta
why tf still i apply as sub, no takers, swap to sin - taken by the same group
coarse nest
Apply as sin, when youre in the key, swap to sub
If they say something, say "Why were you looking?"
grave abyss
fallow glade
barren tree
If i press my 2nd sectech on like the last second of transmitter buff, will all the clones still get the full buff or nah?
steel horizon
If i press my 2nd sectech on like the last second of transmitter buff, will all ...
the clones are separate hits so, most likely not
barren tree
ah oof
short radish
why tf still i apply as sub, no takers, swap to sin - taken by the same group
doing a 14 dawnbreaker with some mates and on the first pull one of them goes "wait why is my rogue sub"
hazy breach
And then they realize youre doing good dmg
mighty delta
EXACTLY
hazy breach
tribal blade
i didn't feel in danger a single time in the key
sub tankiness feels good
have feint for everything, any bad overlap on minibosses pop evasion too
cloak off debuffs
fade to nothing uptime
gg
short radish
being able to press feint while in cds and it not taking a GCD is kinda comfy
you press it for no dps loss at all
since energy is whatever in blades
tribal blade
yeah no gcd on feint goes hard during dance
hazy breach
Ye sub is nice in dawnbreaker
tribal blade
being more tanky is actually kinda important in DB
you get to a certain key level the damage trucks
esp on mini bosses
and the shadow adds
@hazy breach have you been following echo's key prog
hazy breach
Not much no
Ive tuned in and seen kush yap about how bad sub is
After he accidently used 3 symbols at the same time 
tepid trellis
And then they realize youre doing good dmg
Had a warr before a key complain that I was specd sub in a +10. I finished T 2.2m he did 1.4m
wind canopy
tribal blade
they're playing with a french healer raz
tepid trellis
Told him to yap less and press more dmg buttons instead
tribal blade
and literally every single key they tell him off for 1 reason or another
tribal blade
Told him to yap less and press more dmg buttons instead
dunked
i can imagine you went into overdrive focus after he said that
to max out details
short radish
spite is such a good motivator
tribal blade
finally broke 3200
that took a really, really long time
with a lot of people bricking the keys i did with them and then eventually overtaking me in IO
which was infuriating to watch
hazy breach
Gzz
wispy bolt
Any one play the DS ST build just cause? Havent touched it in a min and just curious
tribal blade
Any one play the DS ST build just cause? Havent touched it in a min and just cur...
i saw some parses using DS in raid
it's viable on ST, just not really worth when you can just play trickster everywhere
and trickster feels way better to play
swift tinsel
Yep! Was laughing about it in guild chat
lilac stag
Grats
pliant topaz
Okay I defend my dissertation tmrw at 10 am, then we maybe play wow again! We’re so back
Or maybe I go play league instead we’ll see
jovial jacinth
hello there fellow subs, i was wondering how do you manage the cooldowns on ovinax myth, is it recommended to pool 2x dance 2x shadows for adds even without the blades? or is it simply a loss on sectechs?
lilac stag
lorrgs is also a thing. https://lorrgs.io/spec_ranking/rogue-subtlety/broodtwister-ovinax
jovial jacinth
thanks, never heard about this site
jovial jacinth
so basically i assumed it right i guess? that all the dances should be doubled into adds right?
lilac stag
yes. top right of map ;p
lucid jackal
wtf is this
spark tusk
john fucking madden
lucid jackal
No wonder people think sub is complicated
cloud rover
Just send
short radish
wtf is this
we've moved on from spreadsheets to pictures
alpine wraith
there are still spreadsheets
but sub is not complicated just people like to see things
ovi is a special thing tho because of the way you get extra cdr that enables a lot of things
full st has not many misteries
round latch
sub needs more streamers and content creators to spread the word
uneven fern
sub scares me
alpine wraith
and well that picture is the one i made for my sheet and video
round latch
we need someone like the racoon man to push the information out there
or prophet,prophet could work
any highquality sub gamer could work tbh
make them guides and push them out there
shav it down their throats if possible
make sub a thing
urban ravine
sub is a thing
and people will still expect to get aug prot pally, enh, frost dk and disc priest in their average +8
i was actually surpsied that i could get 94s parse (ilvl) on Kyveza from my first raid as a sub, now i really want to invest more time in it
and it was way more fun than sin for me
urban ravine
hot take,8s dont rly obey to meta
you can demolish 10s as any spec, it's "just people like to see things"
as said above
round latch
you can demolish 10s as any spec, it's "just people like to see things"
well ye,true cingyness starts from 10s+ 10 is definitely the wall number coz ppl value more their vault than farming some crests
topaz raptor
can't really complain when the meta exists
urban ravine
aug is useless in keys below 12s
urban ravine
can't really complain when the meta exists
im not complainin, but truth is there's no "bad" specs in 10s (i would argue for Aug), you just have to make sense as a party
alpine wraith
aug is that weird spec that also scales your tank and heal so the better they are and the more dmg they do the less they suck
urban ravine
i.e. ivniting DH, warlock, warrior mage and druid for dispell week might backfire you
alpine wraith
some tanks and heals are cracked prot pal is doing 1.4m overall and monk 1.2m
aug goes brrr
but at least we have speed shroud!
urban ravine
yeah if you can compensate his DPS, then it's all good, but accidental deaths with no CR available might deplete you a key on boss
you cant afford to lose DPS player with aug
tribal blade
Or maybe I go play league instead we’ll see
excited for the final act of arcane?
urban ravine
you invite what's good
i just invite whatever makes sense, if it happen to be meta - great, if not - it all comes down to player capabilities anyway
topaz raptor
yeah that's not my belief, it's just what people do
invite what they see at the top
it'll always happen
in every game
kinda sucks but what can you do
urban ravine
cant really blame em, that's true 🙂
tribal blade
it makes sense why people do it
because if you've ever played with a top tier enhance
the damage is ridiculous
urban ravine
but difference between top tier enh and fotm enh was huge (at least prior to TWW)
and enh is in league of its own
tribal blade
i played with @lunar bluff on his enh the other day in a 15 DB and this mofo did 3 mil overall before we wiped on 2nd boss
(with aug)
but it's funny, i've played with a lot of people using meta specs who kinda blow, but they're on par or have more IO than me
urban ravine
that's actually another topic
topaz raptor
meta specs are all boosted animals in my experience
but if they're good enough we'll invite them anyway
urban ravine
that people see enh topping meters and forget that in meta comps there're 3 specs that are buffing him (prot pally lightsmith does it right?)
topaz raptor
s1 df all shadow priests were total trash, they were just io inflated because they were automatically invited to every key
so a 2500 spriest was just a 1900 player that got auto-invited to all his keys
urban ravine
and then in other setup people are like "wait why you are doing such low dps,i've seen enh can do much better"
urban ravine
s1 df all shadow priests were total trash, they were just io inflated because th...
yeah decline q is huge pain in the ass
tribal blade
and then in other setup people are like "wait why you are doing such low dps,i'v...
yeah that's true, they are getting sauced to the tits
urban ravine
yeah that's true, they are getting sauced to the tits
my friend who played whole DF as enh is actually being worried that blizz will nerf hammer it too much because of this
tribal blade
my friend who played whole DF as enh is actually being worried that blizz will n...
it's a fair worry with the history shammy in general has had
urban ravine
yep
tribal blade
but it's very obvious this expac they want shammy to shine
the ele in my guild was freaking out when they got hit with nerfs, and i was telling him "dw blizz wants shammy to be good, i know it'll be fine"
plush roost
Ehh idk about that
tribal blade
and then blizz reverted the nerfs
plush roost
They completely forgot about shaman till the community complained for months
Then were like oh shit here you guys go
tribal blade
shammy has gotten insane amounts of attention for TWW
plush roost
I lowkey believe survival and shaman would have been ignored if there was no community uproar
tribal blade
maybe, who knows the inner workings of the blizz devs 😉
urban ravine
personally im fine with that, let the guys blast
plush roost
Tru that
urban ravine
elem was a mage ripoff for a long time
tribal blade
it was pretty tragic seeing the way shammy was treated in the past
plush roost
Dont worry theyre minorly nerfing totemic enh soon
tribal blade
ok wtf is totemic enh, and why are they literally doing over 50% of their dps with 1 spell
urban ravine
and their defensives were worse than hunters
plush roost
Surging totem go brrr
tribal blade
i saw it on silken prog and was like "wtf is this"
urban ravine
that's what i call "i win" button lmao
plush roost
Haha my enh shaman on kyveza could get good rng and just be 10-15% of everyone else
tribal blade
madness
plush roost
He doesn't even like stormkeeper playstyle so he hopes its nerfed
So he can keep playing totemic
tribal blade
imagine having different builds for your spec 😉
plush roost
ok wtf is totemic enh, and why are they literally doing over 50% of their dps wi...
I mean, we did for a time
Till .5
And sin has different builds for m+
tribal blade
I mean, we did for a time
that's true yeah
plush roost
And outlaw has 2
urban ravine
damn being in most of the class discords i think rogues and monks are chillest communities
plush roost
I mean its pretty good for rogues tbh
tribal blade
i think it's a blessing in disguise for sub having basically only 1 build
means we can do very good ST dam in aoe talents
urban ravine
yeah that nimble flurry is doing god's work
plush roost
Yep the cleave is mega. Been fun picking sub back up on court
urban ravine
it gives cleave with prio damage and in my case gives me easier time learing the spec
and it's still fun as hell to just send CDs and blast
plush roost
Forced induction and coup working for cdr has made the spec feel waaaay better
heady quartz
Was doing brd heroic with guild ytd and my 608 rogue was doing some ungodly cleave
plush roost
I thought DS was more enjoyable but after doing trickster i can never play DS again
heady quartz
Nimble flurry is so good
urban ravine
it was by far "hardest" spec for me before TWW
wasnt even going to play it
but now ill try to put more time into it than my WW monk main (which is fun too, but damage is gigapiss)
heady quartz
Ww needs help on dmg tuning bad
urban ravine
he needs overall help
heady quartz
Every since they fixed conduit the spec is kinda dead
Shadow pan buffs were inadequate to fix the specs issues
urban ravine
well it's still fun to play, it's mostly numbers are the problem and shado pan has doodoo defensive
you can really count karma as full defensive in high keys
heady quartz
One thing i liked about my ww for was at ara-kara
urban ravine
so for some bosses you have only 1 defensive (since they removed Dampen Harm)
heady quartz
Being able to self dispel and run back in is amazing
Yeap no dampen harm is pretty balss
urban ravine
yeah it has good tools for S1 m+
i havent got a single trouble dealing with affixes
heady quartz
The issue is getting invites
urban ravine
you have ring to pop, self dispell and you can ToD Xal's copy and the MQM it
urban ravine
The issue is getting invites
yeah in the end damage is king
heady quartz
Ww was matching my warrior for awhile ( this was pre war buffs), then the buffs came in
urban ravine
Ww was matching my warrior for awhile ( this was pre war buffs), then the buffs ...
yeah they just forgot to tune some specs like DH and monk, well that's how the cookie crumbles, at least i can play my alts more
rocky ocean
hi guys, just switched from assa and it seems more fun. Is it intended or am I missing something?
urban ravine
hi guys, just switched from assa and it seems more fun. Is it intended or am I m...
Shhhhh it's intended, dont let other sin rogues know tho
urban ravine
but in your cooldowns you are just free to cast
heady quartz
8s of fun
urban ravine
but it feels better
youtube when 
vale pine
when i find time for it -.- sadly a bit busy lately
urban ravine
when i find time for it -.- sadly a bit busy lately
wild hornet
Ass is just affli but melee
vale pine
to a degree yes
winter elbow
good morning my dudes, I am using the 0.15% gem and have a rainbow set of gems bc of it - but raidbots tells me to go vers/mast on every gem. Is this 0.15% thing just not worth or am I messing things up inside raidbots?
sinful sluice
how does these look
alpine wraith
yea sub does not care enough about that little crit dmg
sinful sluice
my character portrait on esc looks so satisfying
alpine wraith
you run vers mastery gems
winter elbow
you run vers mastery gems
i see - thanks!
random hare
how does these look
Yo wtf where did u get those from
sinful sluice
got them as present
random hare
But from where do u know
sinful sluice
i think theres some companies doing custom keycap printings
not sure where u live but pretty sure there will be one if u google it
alpine wraith
some of them are kinda cool yea
leaden prairie
keen dome
how does these look
That's really cute, I love it
Love a chonky old style keyboard too
vestal escarp
how does these look
lit keys
hybrid bluff
Sorry guys but got yesterday myth transmitter
Sorry for them who didnt even got it on hero
lilac stag
There’s a 639 boi on logs now. Think I noticed it on Sub Ovi logs. Was top overall.
sly shore
I am 638.44 too
only way to get higher is queen ring
for assa, anyway
2 crafted pieces rest 639
638.63
urban ravine
so far i saw 3 tenets, 3 blades from sikran and 3 bows from him
that's some casino shit
lilac stag
We had 3 leather belts drop
junior prawn
Any gamers have good m+ talent build ? Im bored of playing assass
lilac stag
!guide
lilac stag
Wowhead. Drop tornado. Take TFD
hazy breach
you cant afford to lose DPS player with aug
Good augs will do good damage
In the top runs the aug typically does the same amount of damage as the frost dk
tribal blade
i'm not minding running with aug as much this season tbh
because deaths and wipes are the biggest contributor to klling the timer
hazy breach
But ye big difference between good and bad ones. Same as enhances
I keep up with most enhances
tribal blade
yeah having a bad aug is seriously bad