subtlety

[vale pine]

i wouldn't be surprised if it got a complete revamp at some point

[tribal blade]

i 100% agree

[vale pine]

well

11.1

[tribal blade]

it's one of the main things that makes me not want to play sin right now in keys

[vale pine]

if blizz follows the same principles than they did in 10.1

[tribal blade]

that and the ST rotation feels so bad in keys

as sin

[vale pine]

will force us to play deathstalker

[tribal blade]

i seriously hope not

that would be depressing

[vale pine]

e.g. if you think about it

trickster benefits a lot from 90 sec trinkets

and the tier set

season 2 has neither and both are about on par now

[tribal blade]

yeah there's a lot of synergy going on with trickster atm

[vale pine]

so in general

we don't see 90 sec trinkets much

in fact i don't remember one from DF which had most of its power in the effect

[tribal blade]

one of the old raider from my guild came back to the game recently

and he's playing sin rogue

and the first thing he said to me was "deathstalker feels so bad to play, why don't they let you apply the mark outside of stealth"

because there's a lot of world content that forces you to be outside of stealth to complete

or activate npcs to kill

and you get caught out of stealth because of it, and can't apply mark

it's a pretty bad problem

[vestal escarp]

topped dmg as sub in city 14

you can cast flag on last spies

and have it back for 2nd boss

good life

[vale pine]

👍

[vestal escarp]

too bad about IW or you could fully push as sub imo

maybe in GB and wake, scent > sub

but just those 2

[tribal blade]

it's not just iron wire, but sin has some pretty rad aoe dam

really strong aoe

[vestal escarp]

going up it's all about how strong your prio is, but the stark contrast is just in those 2 keys

[tribal blade]

oh btw i was thinking, in CoT you can probably spam all your symbols charges right after you kill the last pack before 2nd boss

and have a ton of supercharger stacks going into it

[tribal blade]

SV too

[vestal escarp]

SV eh, in the crystal part defo

mecha side the big dude just frontals

[tribal blade]

SV is a dungeon where sin is a lot more valuable than sub i feel

[vestal escarp]

yes if you pug just for IW

IW can let you carry most keys

[tribal blade]

it does

but also some of the hardest parts of the dungeon are the trash pulls

and sin is better aoe dam

and better prio

[vestal escarp]

look

when i play with enha

in huge pulls

on 14s

my ramp is a bit slower

and the sham blasts, stealing my dmg

[vale pine]

sin funnel damage is kinda crazy for how good the aoe is

[vestal escarp]

in those scenarios if i was sub it would be maybe the opposite

[tribal blade]

it would basically be the same

[vestal escarp]

cause i can send first sectech before his storm

[tribal blade]

if the pack is dying that fast

but that's kind of having a good problem

stuff is dying too fast=good problem you don't need to do anything about

[vestal escarp]

sure but in the zone of not so fast that you can sit on ccs

[tribal blade]

you look worse on details, but doesn't matter when you're zooming

i suppose if the pack's going to be dying that fast you don't need to spread too many bleeds

just spread a little and then go straight into cds

[vestal escarp]

it's weird

cause often times the ruptures go into shitters that die instantly

losing me scent stacks

[tribal blade]

yeah so this is why i hate running sin in siege

i'm starting to use sub in siege now

also the boss dam feels so bad

[vestal escarp]

so i have the choice to either overshoot with rutpures and put 7 up or be selective and targetswap but thats a hassle

[tribal blade]

overall i'm not a fan of how sin plays

it's just not my style

[vestal escarp]

i hate how ST feels without ruptures up

[tribal blade]

ST in sin's M+ builds

feels horrible

my mental breaks every time

[vestal escarp]

exactly it's mental breaking

so at every opportunity i swap to sub

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm slowly moving off sin as much as i can

[vestal escarp]

and it's also low dmg

might be detrimental for timer

[tribal blade]

depends what you need in your comp i think

[vestal escarp]

either way meta is frost enha

[tribal blade]

YEP

i'm not one to worry TOO much about the meta though

the main issue is when there's a godcomp season

actually speaking of that when are they going to do something about the aug problem

this is getting out of hand

how they are mandatory literally every single season since their release

[hazy breach]

I mean ye tfd is better in certain dungeons but the alternative is just so ass that its pretty much always worth taking in keys

Wm is just a pure st talent

Since the extra strikes doesnt flurry (a bug, but still)

[hazy breach]

Tbf sub has pretty good prio, its just that assas absolutely insane

[ornate current]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[tribal blade]

yeah that's true

but i'm starting to transition more into sub keys

like i started using sub in siege now, but i have yet to actually time a siege using sub

i'm cursed with 15s atm

[hazy breach]

Siege, dawn and city are def fine as sub

[tribal blade]

mists too is pretty good

[hazy breach]

I dont feel like I do more as assa in either of those

Ye mists too

[tribal blade]

i just always feel better when i'm playing sub

[hazy breach]

Ive tried so many grim batol 14s and it just never works 💀

[tribal blade]

oh dude GB is always cursed lol

[vale pine]

think sub would need to do better than sin for more people to transition

[tribal blade]

it's funny, my ele and i timed a 14 GB while carrying the ret whose key it was

he had no business being in that key

but we timed it somehow

[hazy breach]

My tanks always die somehow

[tribal blade]

BRO what is it with tanks this season

it's so bad

literally half the 15s i've failed are because of tanks

[vale pine]

wait, are they from my guild?

[hazy breach]

Paladins are hard to play

[vale pine]

paladin is one of the harder to play tanks

[tribal blade]

the last 15 i failed we exploded on the 1st boss of siege

[vale pine]

thats why probably

[tribal blade]

because the prot pal was too slow to soak a bomb

true they are not a simple spec

[vale pine]

you rarely see a druid die, guardian is easier

[tribal blade]

i think guardian is a bit more paper now than before

but i haven't actually played with one since prot pal came back in the meta

literally overnight it was all prot pals

[vale pine]

tank feels to me like a weird position

because tanks historically optimized for survival

[tribal blade]

prot pal is CRAZY dps atm

[vale pine]

but now

they optimize for dps

[tribal blade]

yeah it's nutty

[vale pine]

because talent trees gave so much more options

[tribal blade]

it's interesting watching details at the start of a pull

[vale pine]

i discussed this with my gf, which usually plays a lot of tank

[tribal blade]

usually the dps overtake the tank quickly after he's done gathering

but now sometimes the prot pals will stay up there for a bit

[vale pine]

but when you read a guide on wowhead or icy veins

or wherever

you essentially don't make it easy for yourself

because guides don't suggest to get too much defensive, but balance it out just enough

[hazy breach]

Same deal with rsham vs disc

[vale pine]

yes its on healers similar

[hazy breach]

Rsham is typically better in pugs because its easier

[tribal blade]

PI just too good right now too

[vale pine]

and this means, and i speak from experience (with tanks in our guild)

that peopel will just die

because they make mistakes

and have no buffer to make up

[tribal blade]

there's a lot of tanks who are making key bricking mistakes at the title range level

[vestal escarp]

sin funnel still has good tradeoffs

for talents and rotation management

[vale pine]

the trade off assassiantion has is for pure single target

[vestal escarp]

enha can funnel on smallies that last 5 secs

[vale pine]

but as long as you can funnel, thats barely relevant

[vestal escarp]

[tribal blade]

it's hard to compare against enhance right now

[vale pine]

sin funnel has less trade offs than shuriken combo had

[tribal blade]

they're just god mode

[vale pine]

and we know how developers think about that

[tribal blade]

bring back shuriken combo

there i said it

[vale pine]

things change tho

shuriken combo would be not that big atm

you probably wouldn't play it

[vestal escarp]

yeah nimble is better imo

[tribal blade]

i don't think it would be game breaking with the proper tuning

you guys are thinking small

[vale pine]

i think its difficult

[tribal blade]

shuriken combo AND nimble

together

[vale pine]

the game has so many things to it now

[vestal escarp]

even with the old 50%

[vale pine]

that it became difficult to know who is good at what

[vestal escarp]

you'd miss on strike dmg + nimble and ub procs

[vale pine]

shuriken storm

[tribal blade]

goddamnit i forgot about how trickster plays

[vale pine]

still costs a lot

and evi is not that good

bp is also meh for the trade offs it gives you

nimble with combo sounds good

btw. is it funny

that sin bf is not target capped

while sub/outlaw is

[tribal blade]

yup...

[vale pine]

its just weird

because deisgn is so inconsistent

[tribal blade]

god sub would actually be a pretty monster spec if we had non target capped flurry

[vale pine]

outlaw too^^

[tribal blade]

and outlaw yeah

i think the argument for outlaw is they have essentially no cds

[vale pine]

the diffrence is

sub has bp

[tribal blade]

and cdr

[vale pine]

so it can at one point switch

its just interessting

[tribal blade]

and classically those specs with no cds and cdr will be target capped

[vale pine]

how design on assassiantion does not get the same drawbacks/trade offs many times

[vestal escarp]

uncapped dmg in cds if fine for me, sectech strong

[vale pine]

ye its fine for sub

because secret and bp is not capped

outlaw technically also has a target uncapped spell

but they don't play BR

[tribal blade]

BR is not really a great spell

it feels weird on outlaw

[vale pine]

i like it

[vestal escarp]

could be better

[vale pine]

its a charge + aoe hit

kinda cool

[tribal blade]

it's ok

[vale pine]

the damage is just... not good

[tribal blade]

i think i possibly kind of agree with whispyr

give sin replicating

and give us something different and new

[vestal escarp]

replicating at 3 targets for garrote and rupture?

yeah id want that

[tribal blade]

haha nah that's actually crazy

[vestal escarp]

there's crazier stuff around

[vale pine]

i think that just sounds better than it actually is

[tribal blade]

i suppose there is, i don't keep up with what other specs are like

[vale pine]

i think replicating works on sub

because it has nothing to rupture

else than damage

it is why rupture does a lot of damage

assassiantion wants rupture to do the same lot of damage

without losing all the other extra benefits they have to it

[tribal blade]

so they can do EVEN MORE damage

[vale pine]

thats why this suggestion is done

[tribal blade]

of course they want that haha

[vale pine]

because for everything else

you would need to completely rework both specs

so "just give sin replicating"

isn't rly that great

[tribal blade]

my main wish would be for replicating to be a bit faster

at spreading

[vale pine]

ic is basically a better replicating atm

the only annoying thing is the stealth dependency

[vestal escarp]

which is offset by targets hit

[vale pine]

yes

[vestal escarp]

ic at 2 for sin would be a nightmare, your opener would be so slower

nightmare might be an exaggeration

for sub you could have replicating at 8 and nothing crazy would happen

[tribal blade]

go on, i'm listening

god that would feel so nice

[vagrant fulcrum]

you sure about that

remember that sub's rupture actually does damage

sin rupture is just scent stacks

[vestal escarp]

which might be even more dmg

in the end it's just pad dmg for sub

and not even that great outside dance and sod multipliers

[vagrant fulcrum]

hold on a minute

more than anything this will shore up sub's damage outside of cds

[vestal escarp]

would it?

a bit yes

[vagrant fulcrum]

and make cds a lot better since you don't really get to rupture 4x+ before sending

I guess you'd just get extra evisc / bp casts

[vestal escarp]

rupture counts in keys for sub is grey area atm

[vagrant fulcrum]

assuming you're in a high enough key to bother rupturing a lot of stuff

[vestal escarp]

depends on the range and in the upper one sub is not played

[vagrant fulcrum]

and in a low key it's just 4-6 extra ruptures on a typical pull

[vagrant fulcrum]

I'd say from 12 upwards you have time to spread rupture

[vestal escarp]

suff blows up in 14s

[vestal escarp]

defo not

[tribal blade]

depends on the pull, but in most 14-15s you can safely apply rupture except for the 1st pull of the dungeon usually

[vagrant fulcrum]

alright you're not bothering to rupture the 20 mob pack the ele sham is sending ascendance + lust on

not every pack vanishes

gota be smart

thing is you primarily care about rupturing the 1-3 big prio mobs of a pack

extra targets are largely meaningless

[vestal escarp]

yeah

thats why i said if you magically had more rups up it would just be more pad dmg anyway

[tribal blade]

when i watched casual do his 1st key as sub after the rework he was very aggressive with rupture spreading

[vestal escarp]

outside dance you have the leisure to rup everything you want

[tribal blade]

and did very high dps

[vestal escarp]

and the extra casts of other finishers you would gain are still outside dance

[vestal escarp]

bro im so on it

but

rup gatekeeper, rup the monstrosity, rup one fleshcrafter, rup the other

and smallies are blown away and you still have to send flag

[tribal blade]

i'm less aggressive with rupture spreading than i used to be

unless it's a pull where i know everything is gonna live a bit

[vestal escarp]

everyone is so geared that on 13s 14s with pot and full cds smallies of wake, cities, mist, siege get deleted

[lilac stag]

Even less aggressive when you drop RS

[tribal blade]

dude i am so sick of dungeons that have small shitter mobs that die in a few globals

that just end up being whoever can pad on them first

gets all the dps

[vestal escarp]

forst dk is sending breath after what, 4 globals?

[lilac stag]

I love watching a 7cp RS hit … a mob with 200k health. Don’t you?

[tribal blade]

it's just literally extra nameplate clutter

[vagrant fulcrum]

I'll normally rupture 1-3 times as a pull is being gathered

on the key mobs

more and it feels like you're running the risk of delaying cds too much

[tribal blade]

yeah i'm about the same depending

the first pull of every dungeon is where it's usually the most unsafe to try to rupture a lot

[vagrant fulcrum]

I do think sub is underrated as far as dungeon specs go

[tribal blade]

because when everyone has cds+pot+lust

things get blown up real quick

[vagrant fulcrum]

it just doesn't do as much prio dmg as sin as consistently

[tribal blade]

sub is a good dungeon spec atm

i haven't had anyone say anything except positive things about sub being back

[vagrant fulcrum]

overall-wise I probably get like same to -15% overall from playing sub compared to sin

[tribal blade]

because most people are surprised to see sub being played

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-gif-3443717768890642238

It’s almost like one spec is broken.

[vagrant fulcrum]

losing iron wire sucks though

[hazy breach]

Id say its closer to like 5%

[vagrant fulcrum]

that's the thing I notice most

[vagrant fulcrum]

some keys I just do better as sin, grim batol is the standout in my mind

[tribal blade]

i love the ST gain

[vagrant fulcrum]

probably bc people pull packs into 2nd boss, and last boss has adds

[hazy breach]

Ye not being a huge ⚓ on bosses is nice

[tribal blade]

it really is such a great feeling know you're able to blast pure ST

[hazy breach]

Ive had some keys were im playing aug+sin+frost dk

And the bosses just never die

[narrow shadow]

Most people are not even playing iron wire in high keys nowadays anyway

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

some comps are turbo bad with sin

[hazy breach]

Mistcaller and second boss siege

People go "huh were already in the intermission"

[tribal blade]

so true

[vale pine]

haha

sub burst 📈

[vagrant fulcrum]

im not a title pusher and pug a lot. I feel its loss keenly

[tribal blade]

i love it

he's right, a lot of high end key pushers are moving away from using iron wire

[vagrant fulcrum]

that's bc they don't miss kicks / overlap cc

xd

[tribal blade]

they can pick up twist the knife or sudden demise

with the free point

[vagrant fulcrum]

their tanks can press defensives to start a pull

[tribal blade]

both big throughput talents

[hazy breach]

I cant imagine they'd give it up in grim batol though

[vagrant fulcrum]

ill try dropping iw and see how it goes

[tribal blade]

i think some keys you don't want to give it up though

[hazy breach]

But i also dont think any of them has really tried superhard in grim batol yet

[tribal blade]

NW, GB and SV are the ones it's hard to drop

[hazy breach]

NW is fine

[vagrant fulcrum]

I still think it's giga meaningless to get some extra damage at a defensive / utility / stop loss

[tribal blade]

i think i just love it in NW because it can carry disorganized pugs really hard

[vagrant fulcrum]

iw covers add intermissions so well

in 2nd boss nw

[tribal blade]

thing is you can play w/o iron wire because there are comps running no rogues

so the keys are possible w/o it

and you gain a significant amount of dps

[vagrant fulcrum]

idk if it's fair to justify 1-3% extra damage

I can guarantee iw saves some pulls

[tribal blade]

i think if you're pugging sure

[vagrant fulcrum]

idk if i can say the same for the damage

[tribal blade]

iron wire is huge

[vagrant fulcrum]

the whole decision feels really shit ngl

[hazy breach]

On the other hand the big boys are doing more of their damage through fleshcrafters anyway

Because the dungeon is stinky

[vestal escarp]

depends on the whole premade vs pug

[vagrant fulcrum]

brings me back to a point I keep repeating, we do NOT want choice

choice is awful

[tribal blade]

lol the fleshcrafter tech

[vestal escarp]

you cant ever drop iw in pugs

[hazy breach]

They never have any shields on the last boss

Because fleshcrafter just insta breaks it

Im kinda baffled blizz hasnt done anything about it

[vale pine]

maybe they added it to the pile of

"bugs to fix"

[tribal blade]

is it actually a bug?

i thought it was intended

[vale pine]

[tribal blade]

it's just the degen levels people are using it where blizz didn't have the forsight to see

i remember in mage comps they would jsut keep the upstairs fleshcrafter perma sheeped

and then break it when they needed the damage

[hazy breach]

Ye idk im just not a huge fan of disc priests bringing more damage than a dps to the last 2 bosses of that key

Technically its the aug doing most of the work ig, but you still need a priest for the mc

[tribal blade]

some of this tech is seriously game breaking

like not needing to worry about the last boss' shields ever

[dire geyser]

btw can you symbols more than once prepull for supercharger

[tribal blade]

is a HUGE factor of that fight taken away

[tribal blade]

you can only have 2 on pull

for raid bosses

[hazy breach]

Yesnt. It resets down to 2 when you pull a boss

[vale pine]

think it is what i mentioned earlier

[dire geyser]

bet

[hazy breach]

For keys you can prestack 7

[vale pine]

that DF added so much to every spec

that healers and tanks are also now start to optimize for dps

(and do often quite good dps too)

[tribal blade]

oh btw @hazy breach how do you handle supercharger stacks in the RP area of CoT

do you kinda burn a charge before mounting up to run to the next place

or is it only really worth doing that right before the 2nd boss

[hazy breach]

Probably should ye

I havent done it but i dont see why not

[tribal blade]

i'm not sure how much time you have exactly before the 2nd boss activates

[hazy breach]

Unless you are on like 0 charges when the pack ends

[tribal blade]

but feel like you're safe to burn 2 symbols charges

possibly 3

[hazy breach]

Like 50s or so from when you start the rp

By walking into the dude

Might even be 55-60

[tribal blade]

ok so realistically 1-2 depending on how many charges you ahve

[hazy breach]

Its a long ass time for some reason

[tribal blade]

yeah i was thinking about it today

since it's so long you can likely immediately burn your charges once the last trash pack is dead

[vale pine]

thats quite some sweaty min/max

i love it

[tribal blade]

that's such a neat thing about supercharger for sub

is the ability to bank up stacks like that in keys

[vale pine]

it is a nice min/max without that much impact

think its one of the better ways to add skill expression

[tribal blade]

it is! i love everything about supercharger

10/10 talent

[alpine wraith]

yea i explained it is quite cool

cot dawn grim batol you can charge in some places quite easily

[vale pine]

also to coup de grace defense

it did prevent me from falling down in blackrock raid once

so the charge is not always your enemy

[alpine wraith]

in silken court in the intermission it also helped me go back to melee!

when i had to soak a blue orb in narnia

without using step that is a death sentence

[light imp]

a broken clock is right twice a day. lol

[hazy breach]

Stepping the dragon boss in gb is spooky too

I usually step a pet or a party member

[keen dome]

Smart

Sub on the first boss of Mists is so much fun

Feels like the a strong "Watch this" moment as I obliterate his HP

[hazy breach]

Yeah its nice

First boss of siege is also neat

[keen dome]

Oh yeah, absolutely

[hazy breach]

Even though its +50% and not 100

[keen dome]

Although for some reason I just can't play the damage window properly, but in my defense every group I've had has been cursed

[hazy breach]

In mists or siege

[keen dome]

Siege

[hazy breach]

Ye if ranged doesnt kite well you can get screwed

[keen dome]

Multiple times I've just had it be reeeeally awkward

Or it just spiral into comedy

[hazy breach]

Your small dances should be in the bomb though

[keen dome]

Nod

[hazy breach]

But 12s is just annoyingly too short of a window

Very noticeable on court

14 or 15 would be so much better for sub

[keen dome]

Do you save Flag+Blades for his damage window, or do you use it on pull?

[hazy breach]

Since sectech is cast about 11 or 12 so second after the first one

[hazy breach]

Just use on pull, most of the time theyre gonna kite into a bomb by your second dance

[keen dome]

Ah, okay. I've been sitting on them so that's probably the bigger issue.

[hazy breach]

Can hold like 2 gcds if you want to but should be fine either way

[keen dome]

Nod

Cool, I'm def gonna try it next time I get to him

[hazy breach]

Its obviously also cleaving some onto the adds

[keen dome]

Yeah

[hazy breach]

But ive hit 6.5M on that pull and people go "wtf did sub get buffed"

[keen dome]

lmao, hell yes

I feel really happy when I do reeeeally good boss dam or strong overall in a +10. Showing people Sub is good to invite.

[hazy breach]

Ye its a good feeling

[glossy turtle]

would I send my skardyn's grace with blades?

[lilac stag]

Flag

[glossy turtle]

oh yeah im dumb

[hazy breach]

Ye flag if you dont have transmitter

[lilac stag]

Nah. Disjointed cds dumb

[hazy breach]

But skardyn is way worse than transmitter unfortunately

[lilac stag]

hit up that lfr and make someone rich

[glossy turtle]

well I mostly play m+, sadly I dont raid on rogue :C

[glossy turtle]

bro, this was me yesterday

I have 3k now

XD

[lilac stag]

Have you tried not being poor?

Highly recommend.

[glossy turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/fig-gif-26092737

[idle aurora]

is golemn gearbox really that good?

[lilac stag]

bloodmallet doesn’t work

Use !fuu

Mr. bloody mallet has apparently gone on perma vacation and isn’t updating a few of the profiles.

[glossy turtle]

got 10k of mats in ah, might sell this month 😉

[spark tusk]

I'm sorry for your struggles

[spark tusk]

I would die

[glossy turtle]

im not limited in m+ by skill. but gold XD

but I have 3k so i should have enough to get all 12s now.

but im gonna need to think of a plan, cause this cant continue XD

[spark tusk]

ah yeah I get limitations, I'm limited in m+ by attention span and depression, but I have 540 io now so I should have enough to chill in town some more crafting

[glossy turtle]

im maxed leatherworker also btw

at start of szn I was like 250k

[tawdry kiln]

Hello guys do you think that sub rogue need a buff or it is fine rn ?

[fallow nimbus]

A aoe buff and slight energy cost reduction

[lilac stag]

Dmg profile is fine. Bugs need to be fixed and energy consumption in multi target outside of dance could use a little love.

[tawdry kiln]

On the last boss of NW, do you guys have an issue with the add ? He evades my spells and even go up sometimes

[lilac stag]

drop tricks buff

kidney shot and kill or kidney shot and remove tricks

[tawdry kiln]

oww

[lilac stag]

you’re snapping it to the tank

[tawdry kiln]

okayy

I can have a cancel aura macro ig

ty

[whole lichen]

is sub ok for M court

[alpine wraith]

yea

[pine copper]

is deathstalker m+ build fine or is it trolling compared to trickster

[alpine wraith]

you can try it it is a bit annoying

[lilac stag]

Trolling. Nothing lives long enough and the game play is krsngked.

Just play assa at that point if you have an aversion to tricky.

[native zodiac]

is it possible to track supercharger in a way like for example rotten?

it doesnt appear to be a buff when i try to track it

[steel horizon]

your cp should be highlighted after you use it

[wild hornet]

default blizz ui - your combo points are red and supercharged are yellow

(or vice versa?)

[native zodiac]

well without default ui, how would track it with a weakaura is what im curious about

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[wild hornet]

!macro

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety Macros:
It is not recommended to macro most cooldowns.
The following macros are an exception:yaml /cast Cold Blood /cast Secret Technique

/cast Shadow Dance
/cast Thistle Tea```
When using diffrent macros, make sure to keep the cooldowns on a seperate key.

[lilac stag]

WA has an empowered setting somewhere in its options.

[scarlet heath]

you can track it in WA, it's called "Overlay Charged combo points"

it has its own checkbox

you can use this

or make your own custom condition for it

[native zodiac]

ahhh okay perfect thats what i was looking for

[quick latch]

hello whats more difficult to play in raids , assa or sub

[vale pine]

sub

[ebon tiger]

quite a few 1.5 minute trinkets in the s2 dungeon rotation, but none like the telephone hope floodgate or the raid steps up

[native zodiac]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[zenith oriole]

Sub > Outlaw

[round latch]

thats a given

[zenith oriole]

Sapzilla? You really play Deathstalker?

[austere ridge]

could be they play pvp

we all play deathstalker there

[zenith oriole]

ohhh I see

[glossy turtle]

how good is black powder?

[vale pine]

you use it on 12+ targets

[glossy turtle]

bruh

XD

[keen dome]

🫡

Now I've got a baseline, it's only up on every repeat kill. Unless I somehow find a way to do worse than this. Which is possible.

[glossy turtle]

did you die in opener? XD

[keen dome]

Thankfully not that bad. First P2, I got webbed when someone ran into one next to me and panic'd and died to a charge.

And then they killed the boss.

[glossy turtle]

but sub on ulgrax?

[keen dome]

I play Sub on everything

[glossy turtle]

nice man 🙂

gotta respect that

[keen dome]

Next week: 1% parse.

[glossy turtle]

I rly like sub in raid and I game assa in m+ and muliti target fights for raid

[keen dome]

It feels really good.

[glossy turtle]

what do you use then? other than shuriken tornado

assa in m+ is the best

[vale pine]

evis, because of nimble flurry

assassination is rly good ye

[glossy turtle]

yeah ok kinda what I thought. what did you do before? isnt nimble new?

[keen dome]

Yeah, Nimble was added with the hero talents. Tricksters tree.

[glossy turtle]

just gotta sell your soul to afford a shuriken storm

[vale pine]

haha true

[warm hare]

does anyone have a WA just to track Symbols of Death?

[lilac stag]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[lilac stag]

Pull one from any of those packs.

[warm hare]

I have no idea how to properly do that, I am always overwhelmed with WA menues. But you say I can just download a whole pack and just delete every child and group besides the symbols of death one?

[lilac stag]

There a set of 3 arrows next to each wa icon. The ◀️ will keep pulling it from whatever group it’s nested in.

then delete the pack

[warm hare]

thank you very much for taking your time to explain it to me

I will try it!

[lilac stag]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/how-to-create-and-use-weakauras-5929

That may help. The basics are quite simple. The crazy shit is complicated.

[warm hare]

I always open WA up and every WA seems to be coded differently and has different tabs and layouts and I always get so overwhelmed and lost.

[lilac stag]

Try to follow the guide and write your own symbols wa

[warm hare]

will do if I dont get the other way to work I belive

[lilac stag]

Everyone codes and designs differently.

[warm hare]

thank you for your time regardless, very kind of you, more than I asked for

[raven tiger]

Hey rougie rouguies my beloveds how are you besties

🫂

Might come back to wow bc of that pandaria anouncement

Do yall gonna plan on also adding thc stuff to panda and cata classic since its a favourite among subs or gonna leave it to other discords?

[alpine wraith]

this is mostly for retail but a lot of us played pandaria

so you can ask likely too

[spark tusk]

Feel free to ask here if you can't figure it out, lots of knowledgable WA folks here

[strange chasm]

@spark tusk why is your icons for cloak evasion feint cheat so damn big lol

[spark tusk]

Because they are related to saving your life

Feint isn't big

feint is much smaller than cloak/evasion/cheat

To be honestly I'm contemplating, though not committing to, the idea of adding a health bar and incorporating defensives into that

[tulip gorge]

guys don't play with perma tricks on NW. On the last boss I was sent down and the add bugged out and evaded all my attacks, then it went upstairs

[spark tusk]

But not sure yet, just ping ponging the idea in my head

[lilac stag]

Just cancel the aura or kidney and kill it.

[edgy zenith]

yeah, you have to cancel aura during flight down

[wind canopy]

Yeah been a known bug for a while. Just click off tricks

[shrewd monolith]

Hi guys can someone explain me what to do if coup proc should i use it without sd or wait and use it in sd

?

[hazy breach]

Just use it

[shrewd monolith]

okay thanks

another thing should i press Sech Tech as first global in sd?

[alpine wraith]

yea or first finisher in general if you dont have cp

you build to full with strike

[tribal blade]

damn rogue successfully bumped out of the meta

feels bad

[alpine wraith]

unluck

[glossy turtle]

how do you open when you have cds up but no vanish, like you are in combat and get cds.

[lucid jackal]

Aoe or st

[glossy turtle]

st

like im in raid, and i get cds back up in the middle of a fight

[lucid jackal]

Oh

I mean same as opener, make sure everything is setup

Flag > buttons

[glossy turtle]

also I have a question

why do you blades after secret tech?

[lucid jackal]

Cuz u need the duration to give u combo points

[glossy turtle]

can you do it kinda the second you stech?

like right before you use it

[lucid jackal]

Ud rather not

[glossy turtle]

how so?

[lucid jackal]

.

[glossy turtle]

cuz gcd, im stupiod

[lucid jackal]

If you blades and sectec. You are losing a global of combo points

[glossy turtle]

just to be clear I go flag -> symbols+ dance -> into stech -> blades and so on

[short radish]

are ppl just running imp shadow technique so they dont have to deal with RS bug?

[lucid jackal]

Yeah or like flag > rupture > dance sod SS > sectec

[lucid jackal]

Yeh

[glossy turtle]

ok, and rupture is only to reapply, since we arent running finality

[lucid jackal]

Ye it'd be if Ur rupture is falling off

[glossy turtle]

btw why arent we running finality?

[lucid jackal]

Other talents are worth more dps

[glossy turtle]

even the rotten?

[lucid jackal]

Idk what the rotton has to do with finality

[swift tinsel]

SS is strong

[lucid jackal]

There's a lot of talents that "don't do anything other than damage"

Stuff like veil walker, finality, the rotton

[glossy turtle]

yeah, and the rotten is just simming better? I would think we would buff the biggest hitting ability? I dont know anything ofc, im just trying to understand

[lucid jackal]

There's not much to understand

Just maths out to more damage

[glossy turtle]

fair enough

so there isnt rly that much variation when it comes to raid builds I assume

[lucid jackal]

U can play replicating shadow, and deal with the bug

Or u can not

[glossy turtle]

lol

what is the bug?

"Replicating shadows. It’s causes a random time delay on your cp refund that can basically happen at any point during the gcd after the finisher" this?

[spark tusk]

yes

With shadowcraft you expect to receive refunds so during cooldowns you spam a finisher when you think you're going to get one

but with the bug, the refund can be delayed which makes you wonder if it will happen at all

so because it's been long enough, you decide to shadow strike anyways so you don't waste time

but then it refunds after you shadowstrike

effectively wasting all of the combo points

If you drop replicating shadows, refunds happen as expected instead

[glossy turtle]

that was kinda how I was playing when I had a very slow disc, like I had a delay on everything causing me to send Bte on cd, cause it was delayed, and I popped it after stealth

damn that sucks

[spark tusk]

Once you get into the swing of things and are in tune with your refunds you'll get

and you play with the bug

you'll really feel it

[swift tinsel]

Do yall ever get your refunds with the bug in two parts, like you'lll get 5cp then the other 2 a half second or so later

[spark tusk]

yes

That's part of the bug'

[glossy turtle]

but inst it kinda huge for m+?

[swift tinsel]

Ah, I figured

[spark tusk]

Generally yeah, It's worth playing with the bug in M+ for spreading rupture

the swap out is considered for raid / ST

where the only thing replicating is doing for you is +20% rupture damage

and nothing more

[glossy turtle]

I just play assa m+, feels rly good. but is sub decent as well?

[swift tinsel]

sub is quite good

sin is just really good

[glossy turtle]

you dont feel the eneryg starvation as much since you are going from pack to pack? and not just a long fight?

other then boss ofc

[swift tinsel]

I personally don't feel it too much

[spark tusk]

Sub feels energy starved between CDs but it's a different kind of energy starving that resolves itself every time you need it to for your cds so it's not really a problem

[swift tinsel]

^

when I'm between cd's I bounce around cc's more

since I know my damage is relatively negligible

[glossy turtle]

yeah but like since you arent doing long combat, you dont get to feel it? or do you feel energy starved still?

[spark tusk]

As stated, Sub is strong, Assa is just stronger in aoe and ironwire stuff

Sub's single target though

is very good compared to assa

Because sub's M+ build is nearly identical to the raid build

[swift tinsel]

Sub's single target with everything up feels extremely powerful

[glossy turtle]

yeah I run it for nw, I swap after 2nd boss

[swift tinsel]

on certain bosses like ingra in mists or last two in nw

[spark tusk]

Sub is one of those "Aoe = 2 talent swaps" whereas assa is "entirely different talent setup"

[glossy turtle]

haha yeah

I really like sub for st, feel sooo good!!!

but for aoe I rly like assa 😄

[swift tinsel]

I love nuking prio mobs so sub is perfect for me lol

[spark tusk]

Honestly I feel better in general as sub

[topaz raptor]

sub gonna be the play for theater of pain because that dungeon is all single target

[spark tusk]

Assa I have times wehre I can feel fucked over by circumstance

[swift tinsel]

^

[spark tusk]

for various reasons

[topaz raptor]

hopefully there's another 90 second trinket that only exists in the raid so i can never play it

[spark tusk]

as sub, you just go

and it's always a vibe

[glossy turtle]

how so?

[spark tusk]

the circumstance never makes me feel like I'm dead in the water

Mostly not having IC

I'm not a big pusher

I'm a very casual player

And most of the restealth problems are overblown for assa

but they are present, and there is still some friction to not being able to spread bleeds well if things go awry

[swift tinsel]

I usually get up to 8's and chill

[spark tusk]

but as sub there's 0 of that

you just go

[glossy turtle]

I mean you just hold vanish for that 🙂

[spark tusk]

and are decently strong

[spark tusk]

What if it happens twice?

my point is

[swift tinsel]

And sub feels like it always has damage unless your pull cadence is super scuffed

[spark tusk]

it's possible, and not uncommon to happen as assa

As sub, it like, just doesn't happen

[glossy turtle]

wont, but I get your point maybe for lower keys ig 🙂

[spark tusk]

Or like

minor point

In raid

after the first boss, the trash puts the whole raid in combat

if I'm primarily in my single target build as assa for first boss or whatever, all I have is caustic

then someone pulls trash after the boss dies as I'm trying to fucking respec

I feel completely limp

for the entire trash set

it sucks

but if you're sub

I don't give a fuck

[swift tinsel]

that happens with rashanan trash if I don't respec immediately after sikran

[spark tusk]

I just go and feel great

yes

rasha too

makes me want to tear my hair out

[glossy turtle]

haha, seems like its all stuff you can control, to a certain point XD

[spark tusk]

You can't control the first boss thing

someone else pulls the group

and the entire zone is in combat

nothing I can do

[swift tinsel]

was annoying as fuck going from st arcane to that set without being able to swap and having healer damage

[spark tusk]

Again, my point is, you can have frustrating situations by circumstances that just don't happen as sub

[glossy turtle]

no but you dont insta pull you go to the side, and you can skip hella mobs. But I have encountered that. dont know if that is due to you being assa though XD

[spark tusk]

and that's why I think sub feels great

[spark tusk]

I'm talking about a pug environment where "you" don't do anything yourself, the group does

outside of your control

[tribal blade]

@hazy breach 1st boss 14 siege

[spark tusk]

Even in a purely single target build as sub, you still do just fine in aoe, it's really not a big deal

[tribal blade]

not too bad

[glossy turtle]

I would say this. I think that sub feels amazing in raid. soo good I rly like it. Or Nw bosses or Mist ingra. Cause it feels like im ripping the main target apart. Where in general m+ assa feels awesome, especially just watching your dmg raaamp like crazy

[spark tusk]

but if you try to aoe as assa with a pure single target build it's absolute misery

[glossy turtle]

oh yeah 100%

that is a part of thé deal

fat amazing dmg in aoe, and we must suffer for st

feeling like we owe energy

we build up energy debt

[hazy breach]

[tribal blade]

and then naturally the key bricks on trash directly after 1st boss

[glossy turtle]

good to know everything is in order then 😉

[tribal blade]

i think i finally vibed with the sin rotation btw

granted this is overall before wiping on trash before last boss in SV

but i was blasting

[hazy breach]

Rotten is worth more than 2 finality points together btw

Finality is not a high dps talent

The third charge of symbols is very very bad

But the reason we take it is because rotten is just so much better than finality

[tribal blade]

oh is it actually that bad? that blows

[hazy breach]

The second charge allows us to move it around so thats good

The third one is pretty much only the extra +3%

And 1 extra cast of symbols across a fight

[alpine wraith]

yea but finality is that bad oh and goremaw too

[tribal blade]

the fuck is it actually only 1 extra cast per fight?!?!

that's nuts

[lilac stag]

how much better do CDs align with just the 2 charges?

I hadn’t thought to look at a breakdown.

[hazy breach]

I mean you pretty much never sit on 2+ charges

[lilac stag]

well more of sectech going full dry

[hazy breach]

Obv its slightly more in some keys lite cot , but in raid its pretty much never

[hazy breach]

Compared to 1?

[lilac stag]

3 vs 2

[hazy breach]

No difference pretty much

Except you get one more

The third charge is only ever relevant if youre sitting on 2 charges

And you pretty much never do that

[strange chasm]

God damn swapping to sub on last 2 of NW and just going full ST ape mode

is so insanely fun

1 phase stich on a 14

[lilac stag]

imagine not being a simp and just playing sub all of it.

[hazy breach]

Unfortunately the key is filled to the brim with packs that have a big priority mob

And since assa is the funnel spec its just too good

[lilac stag]

Make it happen.

[hazy breach]

Assas singletarget might be bad, but if you always have 3 extra mobs you can rupture like on the first boss

Its suddenly insanely good

[lilac stag]

In general I just don’t like the idea of leaving to swap specs. I get the “pushing”. You leave the dungeon. Key should be done.

[grave abyss]

doesn't sub have very strong focus damage too?

[lilac stag]

yes. Assa just better.

[hazy breach]

It absolutely does. Sub has some of the highest in the game

Since we pretty much do our full ST rotation our "prio damage" is pretty much the same as a pure st situation

We get some extra damage outside cds with storm>evis, but its mostly cdr for an extra dance, so its slightly more

Whereas assa gains significantly since they generate more cp with fok = more finishers = more darkest nights + infinite energy and 20% agility from scent

In sims assas prio damage (on like 5+) is roughly 2M in a standard sim, and most ST sims are around 1.5M

Theyre just completely insane at it

[alpine wraith]

and their singular focus actually does dmg

vs ours that does not work with sec tech etc etc

[bright sundial]

what really 30% on every evis or bp after the first one should be good no?

[spark tusk]

So is the benefits of the rotten

both make number go up

Rotten makes it go up more

[tribal blade]

I FINALLY TIMED A FUCKING 15

HOLY SHIT

may have slightly carried

it's ara so sub is no go

[hazy breach]

Its effectively 15% more evis and rupture damage for 2 points

Its 30% on every other

Not all of them

Whereas rotten almost triples half of your strikes

[bright sundial]

oh gottcha ive never played with the rotten til this expac so didnt know much about dps stats between the two

ty for the info

1 more question what about goremaw? started in DFS3 so I never seen anyone take it

[lilac stag]

Watch Hachadino’s stream. He’ll take it.

[alpine wraith]

it would be decent back when it cleaved but they took that out

now it is useless

[sinful sluice]

ok

elussiveness vs cheat death

what should i take for kyveza?

im taking DS

[plush roost]

Elusiveness

Being able to have evasion carry through the last 2 lines is really good

[tribal blade]

rotten is good now too beause we have more symbols casts

more symbols=more rotten

[sinful sluice]

is there specific timing where i can use evasion

[wind canopy]

Finally…

[tribal blade]

before the last lines go out at the end of intermission

i'm not sure exactly when it is, my RL will call it and i'll hit evasion when he does

that's something your RL should be doing too btw

[sinful sluice]

ohh i see

the last tick when everyone gets regicide right

[tribal blade]

"last lines coming up, use a defensive"

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[sinful sluice]

i feel like sub is really good here

and high vers helps as well

[tribal blade]

sin is better as the dps option, but sub is not bad

[tribal blade]

i was helping out a buddy do his 13 CoT, 1st boss dam

godDAMN

[keen dome]

Blasting

Boss Deletion Spec

[short radish]

someone already said elusiveness

but to add onto it

if you get the charge from the clone

you can cloak before it hits you

and you dont get queensbane

so you can step back into the boss and continue dpsing

then in intermission

you just press feint for any regicides you get on you

and evasion for the last 10 seconds

[flint parrot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

nicuu

[warm hare]

im getting an Aneurysm trying to understand sub rogue. somehow this spec was always elusive to me

[formal notch]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[sullen hare]

have you played any flavor of rogue? all three specs play quite differently but if if you're dipping your toe in the water for the first time with this class it can be jarring

rogue generally but also sub specifically has a lot of optimizations that straight up don't make sense

but they work, so we do them

[sinful sluice]

SHE IS SO FUCKING DEAD

!!!!

ahhh i feel so happy

[keen dome]

Hell yeah!

[sullen hare]

💪 💪 💪 💪

[keen dome]

Congrats, well done!!!

Praying for your transmitter

[sinful sluice]

our seed is crazy

[sullen hare]

double trinket?

[sinful sluice]

1x knife 2x contract 1x regicide 1xrogue tier

rogue pack

[sullen hare]

HUGE

[sinful sluice]

im buying them all

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[warm hare]

I play rogue since 2006 but I always avoided sub. I am a combat / outlaw main player, but I decided to give sub a go now as I havent played Rogue this expansion yet

and Im rn at the point of first of all understanding when to use Symbols and how to deal with Shadow Technique and understanding why sometimes I have a full CP refresh after using a finisher and so on

theres so much I need to read up on / understand

[sullen hare]

sub's optimizations are especially weird but now is as good a time as ever to get into the spec

next patch may completely break and remake how we play it (as is tradition) but we're in a fairly newcomer friendly atmosphere here

[warm hare]

but I cant make sense of it yet. I guess 400k DPS on ST with m+ talent build on a 585 ilvl rogue is passable so far with like 1million on burst

but it feels REALLY weird having those downtimes, its crazy

[warm hare]

feel that

[sullen hare]

oh yeah, there's times where you're just sitting and chugging the occasional combo point from a backstab

[warm hare]

is the main reason I dropped rogue, every patch is different and readjusting muscle memory every patch wasnt fun

[sullen hare]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but no one knows what sort of fresh hell the next major patch will have for subtlety

[warm hare]

and sometimes when im left with 6 out of 7 CPs do I wait for shadow technique to proc or do I force a backstab?

[sullen hare]

nope, #subtlety-faq

[warm hare]

thats why I dont main it anymore. Warlock is a much safer call

he said calmly

[sullen hare]

there's a lot of very very good guides there by people in this discord who'll help you with questions

provided you read the damn things first

[warm hare]

I have checked out most of the guides and read up on most stuff, if there is anything related to CPs then I must have skipped them

thats the first thing I always do. I only ask questions when I feel like Im lost

and I must say most of the guides are contradicting

method is not up to date (still talks about echoing reprimand and deathstalker being the best ST spec)

IV and Wowhead also conflict

but I go with fuu's interpretation of sub as it seems to be the best call for me rn

[sullen hare]

the conflict is actually a good thing, in my opinion. they're all written by different people with differing opinions

[warm hare]

I agree as well, but as a newbie in all things sub, I dont know where to start and where to enter and I had to make my call and decision

for example: Fuu says to use Sectec after one finisher in dance, IV says to immideatly use Sectec after dancing

[sullen hare]

for example: I used shuriken tornado as a means to an end in bfa, but I have never liked the talent, so I swap it to another talent that's probably a little less optimal but it's surely more optimal than me poorly using tornado

[warm hare]

so I dont know whats right or wrong, as I have no gauge on the whole situation, but Fuu's makes more sense to me with the chosen talents

[sullen hare]

I think sec tec is more or less just first finisher in dance period

[warm hare]

but yeah, right now im not smart enough to think for myself yet, when it comes to the bare bones. I need the guidance or rather want it so I can understand the spec, but yeah I dont understand shit. Im a cat on the internet trying to do dog things

[sullen hare]

well, on the bright side, trickster sub just literally has a shitty blade flurry the entire time that you really don't have to think about

[warm hare]

def. I love it. I was also fascinated at how shit black powder appearently is that we use evis in aoe situations too thanks to trickster flurry

[sullen hare]

black powder is fine now but its usage is at best situational so you can safely pretend it doesn't exist if you're in a dungeon where the tank isn't double pulling packs

it has its niche uses otherwise, like when you're staring at the last mob in a pack and coup is up. you can use black powder to do a little damage and save that coup for the next pack

[warm hare]

but then I read shit like "yo if you are about to hit coup de grace, start using black powder, yes even in single target so you safe the big hit"

[sullen hare]

I hope I explained it a little better in how I wrote that out

[warm hare]

exactly. and after I read that and how to use symbols of death, I came running here crying

looking for help and understanding

[warm hare]

no yeah it was quite self explanatory before aswell, but smybols of death talk and shadow dance talk kinda left me baffled

because normally = CD use! Dmg good! but in this case you have to gauge when you go into burst / when you have time to flail on the enemy and I just dont know

[sullen hare]

sub hasn't been a send it spec since aberrus

well, after aberrus I guess?

[warm hare]

Rarely have I felt this bad on a spec. like I have ilvl 585 on my rogue right now and I have tried a m0 yesterday and I was happy when I hit 1 mil on the burst, but then dropping down to 300-400k really broke my soul

[sullen hare]

having a transmitter is certainly a big deal

[warm hare]

and it felt like I was doing something wrong, but its just the spec appearently, besides obviously I dont know when to go back into burst phase cause of all the parameters like "is shadow blades soon up? do you have flag soon? did you prepare your unseen blade stacks? did you bring out the trash? do you remember what happened 9/11?"

[sullen hare]

because we as a spec love to amplify our burst window and then eh

[warm hare]

sub is like a broker at the stockmarket who knows that their shit is about to crash so they try to cash out big before

[sullen hare]

I always like to describe it as doing rubicks cubes and dpsing at the same time but yeah that's the spec

I use basic weak auras to track my cooldowns on all the rotational bits and pieces of the specs because it helps me visualize when things are up or going to come up

[warm hare]

I try to do so aswell, but I felt overwhelmed playing the spec aswell. everytime I thought I got the hang of it, something new happened. and now im just sitting here talking to you trying to get a grip but it helped certainly talking to you

[sullen hare]

and yes, I know the fonts and everything on those are all cursed. welcome to my horrible patchwerk UI

[warm hare]

still, I would like to have an answer to my combo point question, I know you posted the FAQs but rn Im on the Wowhead guide and I couldnt find anything regards my question, maybe Im blind and stupid but could you tell me what to do in those situations or guide me to the section in one of the guides where its talked about pretty please?

[sullen hare]

let me dig. I promise it's in there somewhere

[warm hare]

if you can deal with it, it doesnt matter, i wouldnt get any of those bars at all

wait a second

its right there

in front of me

it always has been @sullen hare

I assume when im dancing I do the same tho?

[sullen hare]

I was going to say that it was appended or maybe I'm crazy and it was always that way, but:

Use Finishing Moves when on 6 or more Combo Points with the following priority:

[warm hare]

yeah literally my brain not braining

thanks ADHD and dunning-kruger effect

if you belive enough taht you looked well enough, you will not see whats right in front

[sullen hare]

I'm not here to downplay looking cool. stunting on other DPS as a sub rogue automatically makes you cool

[warm hare]

thanks my guy, you helped me out having a better understanding and sunday

[warm hare]

I mean, for atleast 10 seconds youre the coolest guy around

[sullen hare]

one day you'll learn why we vanish in the opener and be exactly that guy who hears the bell ring at 10 secons and said "I didn't hear no bell"

[warm hare]

and everyone will always think "oh wow this guy can play sub" when in reality you just didnt want to play assa because you never liked how easy and braindead it was (i havent played it since Legion, I hate assa and how simple and effective it is when its properly tuned)

[warm hare]

im even shadowmelding. Im min maxing the shit outta this

[sullen hare]

assa's actually pretty in line with legion as far as I can tell right now. smart pooling and envenom uptime maximizing. I know there's a fringe element of slamming out envenoms for double stacks but my brain is way way too smooth for that

[warm hare]

whenever I got the 4% chance to ACTUALLY drop a fucking poison bomb on the ground my tank moved

I fucking hate assa.

[sullen hare]

things get a little hinky since legion ass rogues literally only had poison bomb for aoe but yeah essentially the same

[warm hare]

its more reliable now atleast

[sullen hare]

tempest and spatter are objectively great things that were added to the spec and it's no surprise to me that the spec is having a heyday.

[warm hare]

I actually belive I would have fun with it too, but I cant forgive legion assa yet.

[sullen hare]

I have nothing but love for my friends in the assassination channel

[warm hare]

yeah, in the end what spec isnt braindead in its core. obviously outlaw isnt much harder either, its just more intense but arguably just as "easy"

so its rich, coming from me an outlaw main, calling assa easy and simple and braindead

[sullen hare]

I don't have a lot of love for outlaw but it's probably just the fact that I don't like playing mavis beacon teaches typing as a spec

[warm hare]

I have around 140 WPM on a good day

so its just up my alley, going by your example

[sullen hare]

but I promise you, if you cozy in and get a chance to pick up what people are putting down in here (and then also read the pins, they're incredibly useful) you're gonna learn a hell of a lot

[warm hare]

Reckful taught me well. RIP ❤️

[warm hare]

I check the pins daily

[sullen hare]

daily might be too much this far into a patch

but check them regularly

[warm hare]

Its what I do to avoid stupid questions like earlier

I always try to find myself the things I may have asked before with the simplest solution

so I skim over waht Ive seen before

[sullen hare]

I've seen stupid questions. yours was merely uninformed

[warm hare]

and the pins are holy

also I like fuu's profile picture

so its a good look too

[sullen hare]

yeah. we love fuu

we love all of our theorycrafters - this discord sets the gold standard

[sly shore]

sub rogue on first boss of mists is so funny

I peaked at 5M dps or some shit

yup

[topaz raptor]

Is bm good

I haven’t seen much bm

[sly shore]

not really

not in keys, that is

[warm hare]

its gotten better, but still is dogwater, specially after it got nerfed again in DR

[sullen hare]

sure is. I did a 2.6m kill earlier today and I'm over here in heroic gear

[lilac stag]

How are you spacing out CDs?

I love some of the pugs I end up in that need CDs to survive the trash before hand.

[sinful sluice]

damn our loot seed was so crazy

[sly shore]

on cd

I held on the duo pull

and just did some dances

but mostly on cd other than that

https://youtu.be/i__5KPpHDIA

[lilac stag]

yeah that duo pack seems to be can I full send on boss or not. ESP when dps yoinks em both down below 50 at the same time.

[sly shore]

possibly could have

idk

checking times

would not have been up in time

[lilac stag]

I had one tank that pulled them into the caster pack before and that was nice

[sly shore]

if I had sent cd's

they would've died faster

the boss went to dmg phase 1.5m after my last cd's came up

so I wouldn't have had them

I would've if the hunter didn't send cd's on pull though

[lilac stag]

Next time I run It ill try just dancing like a fool on duo

[short radish]

@warm hare if it makes it easier, you're mainly syncing things to secret techniques like 80% of the time

because because 90% of the time you don't sectech without dance