subtlety

[ornate quest]

would my trinkets being used with shadow dance be a problem?

[spark tusk]

trinkets are ok but you would generally want to use them with Flag and/or blades

[wind canopy]

As long as you have them for your major CDs, should be fine…

[spark tusk]

depending on the trinket

not dance

[wind canopy]

If you ever delay CDs and then hit that dance macro, you’ve screwed yourself.

[ornate quest]

okay, so I should leave shadow dance out of a macro and have flagellation trigger my trinkets?

[wind canopy]

People do that, yeah

[spark tusk]

Flag is a much better choice, yes

If the trinket duration is very short then it may be better on shadowblades

[hardy falcon]

Flag is better to pair with trinket rather than SB ?

[spark tusk]

but either way, eitiher option would be way better than dance

[ornate quest]

okay, are there any other macros that would help in any way?

[wind canopy]

Not really

[spark tusk]

Just the ones above. Maybe if you care about tricks

!tricks

[wicked jolt]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[grave abyss]

#showtooltip Toy Train Set
/train

[spark tusk]

[ornate quest]

okay, Thanks for the help.

[viral phoenix]

bro

symbols should reset on raid wipe

its frustrating

are you guys pre-symboling for prog or do u not bother until later prog

[hazy breach]

Ideally everytime but it obviously depends on when exacty you wipe and how many charges you had at that time etc

[sinful sluice]

💀💀💀💀💀💀💀

[hazy breach]

But if theyre not ready for the pull timer then dont

[spark tusk]

Just don't release

[hazy breach]

[spark tusk]

until your charges are back

[viral phoenix]

ahhhh

[spark tusk]

[viral phoenix]

THATS BIG BRAIN

feign afk

every pull

[spark tusk]

"uhhh lagging"

"fish was at my door"

"Wasn't the fish at your door last pull?"

[buoyant scaffold]

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Oxi

[topaz raptor]

i clipped a pretty good one with webs at the end of arakara

gotta start uploading a coup de grace highlight reel

when i first specced it, i didn't expect to die as much as i have died so far

[sinful sluice]

i mean how does force dash that you cannot control do any good between fights

hope they remove the dash feature tho

well i guess some ppl can track coup stacks and control it but my brains are too small to react to it

[wind canopy]

"My goldfish was on fire"
"My goldfish was drowning"

[topaz raptor]

you get to live with the feeling that any eviscerate could be your last

exhilarating

[hazy breach]

The dash is especially egregious on Ansurek

[wind canopy]

Did you die at all because of the dash during Queen prog?

[hazy breach]

Like 3 or 4 times yes

Or well, it procced cheat atleast

[wind canopy]

[hazy breach]

If you step out for blades but accidently pressed eviscerate > charge right back into it

But also if youre midair after the knockup it charges you back to the ground, regardless of where in the arc of your knockup you are

So you just gotta wait until you land

[wind canopy]

"Why you dead?"
"Umm... Queen pulled me in"
"Wait, what?"
"Yeah, she pulled me in."

[viral phoenix]

you guys are running elusiveness for princes right?

cheat seems bad

[hazy breach]

Its fine either way, but ye sometimes cheat will just not work

[wispy bolt]

do we want anything from BRD?

[hazy breach]

Not really no

[wispy bolt]

ty

not worth my time then

ah its in droptimizer ill sim

all downgrades

[hazy breach]

Ye none of it has mastery

And all the other extra effects are stinky

[strange chasm]

You guys symbol pre pull or nah?

[sinful sluice]

always i think

[rocky wolf]

can i stack up my whole combo point bar out of combat? with supercharger

[steel horizon]

why not?

[steel horizon]

yes but it will reset back down to 2 cp upon pulling a raid boss or starting a m+

for open world content though you can stack it as high as u want lol

[rocky wolf]

ah yea

you right

[sinful sluice]

what do you guys think about taking cheat death on +12 keys?

[hazy breach]

I think you should take cheat death until you know for 10000% sure you will die without elusiveness

[edgy zenith]

why is Ovi'nax egg simming higher than contract?

[hazy breach]

So unless its like siege last boss or dawn minibosses with the shadow dot i dont think its needed until you go insano high

[viral phoenix]

do you still coup first then sec tech if conditions are met inside the big cooldowns or is the coup cdr too juicy

feels like i miss the second sec tech in buff window if i coup first in the big window

[lament brook]

Why does Overclokced gear a rang sim so high on bloodmallet? Is that a sim bug?

[sinful sluice]

cuz, i feel like i have enough vers that i can deal with dmg without elusivness and my only chance of dying is acidently stepping into big dmg or coup killing me

so i was considering it

[lament brook]

simmed it on raidbots and its trash, so is bloodmallet just entirely wrong for sub?

[sinful sluice]

yeah i heard that site is bugged

[lament brook]

its fine for other specs

[uncut bloom]

Fairly certain the profile on bloodmallet has 0 talents

[rocky wolf]

how do you guys use CDs on mythic court?

mainly on the 1st amp of p2

feels like a hold angle but it seems like a bit

[lilac stag]

There are no talents for sub on bloodmallet. Until he updates it from simc it’s wrong. Use !sheet for rogue info

[lament brook]

aah makes sense

how bad is it to macro symbols into my dance? feels like there would be a lot of times where you would want to dance and already have symbols up and dont want to waste uptime right?

[uncut bloom]

Better to keep it as a seperate keybind, especially since you will press symbols outside of dance with sectec

[wind canopy]

It's simmed without any talents.

[lament brook]

Why do we blades after our secret tech in the opener? Is that just because tech hit is delayed so it still benefits if you use it right after?

[merry agate]

Sectec doesnt Benefit from blades

[lament brook]

but in the aoe rotation it has us use blades with dance

so why the difference

[sharp kernel]

What is the break point for backstab to shiriken storm?

[lilac stag]

backstab is reliant on flawless being up

if that's up 2+ is storm

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

[edgy zenith]

it shouldn't, unless you are taking tornado.

with tornado you have enough CDR to fit in the second sectech with just sending all buttons at the same time

where tf do I send second CB in Silken?

just on a random Evis/Coup during first damage amp?

[lament brook]

just a mistake then?

[edgy zenith]

yeah, probably

sims don't do that

[lament brook]

kk

[lucid jackal]

Blades rn is for the CP gain

[lament brook]

oh just so your next ss fills cps?

[lucid jackal]

Its why if you get a shadowcraft reset, you would actually go sectec > evis > blades

[sharp kernel]

I went with this on my dagger, what can I pair with it for my second craft? Sims say to do neck with something, or gemstone locket. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nECqYmanYZf4b1Cd4dtzSG

[short radish]

!craft

!embelish

use the nerub one

that doubles

[sharp kernel]

!embellish

The ascendance and then the armor thing?

[short radish]

well

you either pick ascendance or grip

and then you do the nerub thing to double its effect

[sharp kernel]

Oh so I can use the armor thing on grip?

With grip**

[short radish]

yeah

[sharp kernel]

It's not a nerubian embelishment

Doesn't that matter

[short radish]

hmmm

wait

isnt it?

[sharp kernel]

It is not

[short radish]

oh it isnt

[sharp kernel]

It would clearly state it

[short radish]

guess you have to double weapon grip then

or 1 grip 1 focusing lens

[sharp kernel]

Could

[short radish]

either way

embelishments mean sweet fuck all

[sharp kernel]

Yea true

But the secondaries is better then nothing

[sinful sluice]

is there specific parts where i can use shadowstep or cloak of shadows to avoid dmg loss/evade gimmicks in m+?

also in 2nd boss of boralus, why does my cloak of shadows sometimes blocks fiery ricochet and sometimes not? cant tell the difference

[golden totem]

I have one ascendance and one lens it's 0.1% lower than double lens, embellish are very close

[viscid ocean]

U can for pretty much everything except most mechanics in necrotic wake I guess

[vale pine]

you can lable it as exploit, but i don't think the chance of getting banned from doing so is high. We are too late in the season for anyone to lose their mind because you saved a few crests

whats the question

[jovial jacinth]

hi guys, a question, has anyone spotted a bug in necrotic wake on the last boss' add? every single time when i'm being sent down to kill an add, it just goes straight into the wall and then keeps evading. I either kill him before he reaches a wall or he keeps evading and i have to wait for like a minute to get back up

i was wondering if this is a sub problem, a rogue problem or just me

[hollow crescent]

so im finally giving trickster a go after playing deathstalker for all content since the expac came out, do i ever use shuriken storm or bp? or is it purely using you ST cd's

[spark tusk]

You use storm as your main builder outside of dance. However you may have to use backstab specifically to get nimble flurry up

It’s your blade flurry, so your builders are:

1. strike in dance
2. storm if nimble flurry IS up
3. backstab if nimble is not up

[wind canopy]

If you're playing trickster, turn off tricks. You're misdirecting it to the tank and thus bugging it out

[jovial jacinth]

niice thanks for the info 🙂

[gray zephyr]

You must turn off tricks of the trade for that boss

[spark tusk]

BP can be used on giga pulls but for almost all normal reasonable pull sizes, just evis

[jovial jacinth]

totally makes sense thanks

[hollow crescent]

[jovial jacinth]

and about the shuriken storm, is it worth to u use either storm or backstab during dance? or simply sectech and strike evi?

wondering about the stacks

[vale pine]

no

both are too weak to make up for the loss

[jovial jacinth]

kk thanks for the info

[vale pine]

on deathstalker, you will use storm in dance in aoe

for trickster, always shadowstrike

[jovial jacinth]

talking about the trickster

[vale pine]

you essentially use storm on 3+ targets outside of dance

and backstab if you lose flawless form

to get it back up

thats about it

[sinful sluice]

You never have to backstab in stealth right?

[vale pine]

no

[sinful sluice]

I just replace my backstab key to shadowstrike in my stealth bar

[green niche]

Is the difference between trickster and Deathstalker big in both raid and m+? I'm not sure I'm feeling trickster...

[vale pine]

think of it like this

if there is one target, you are free to decide

if you have clave you want to play trickster

if there is a lot of very long living mobs you want deathstalker

each hero talent has their trade offs

deathstalker is also a good choice if you want a more traditional play style

[pallid prawn]

out of interest, do u know why crit as a stat lost so much value in comparison to s1 and s2 df fuu ?

[vale pine]

thats easy to explain

in season 1 and 2 of dragonflight

we didn't have find weakness baseline

so we relied on these two talents to apply find weakness

backstab and shuriken storm

if you remember, we even played silent storm and used shuriken storm to apply find weakness in the opener

but 10.2 moved to more emphasize on shadowdust and big cooldowns

and find weakness became our initial node, removing the dependency

all in all means, you get less benefits from critical strike

there are some other factors too, e.g. talent changes, but having find weakness guaranteed up without critical strike is one of the bigger ones that lead to the stat becomming less relevant

[shy ermine]

Losing seal fate and being able to use gloomblade every gcd too

[upper narwhal]

Crit is also extra combo point generation which isn’t needed inside shadowblades at all

[pallid prawn]

ty for explaining @vale pine

[vale pine]

oh thats another big one

seal fate is def. another important point i forgot to mention

[vale pine]

crit is not combo points anymore since 10.2

[upper narwhal]

Ye meant was mb

[vale pine]

oh no, you mentioned nothing wrong ^^

[hybrid bluff]

someone know how much more dmg 10combo points do compared to 7?
Feel weird to press Technique as first gcd after entering dance window

[green niche]

Thanks for that summary @vale pine . I guess I'm a bit iffy about flawless form. I don't like tracking these type of power ups esp for cleave / aoe. Is there a raiding Deathstalker build that could be viable for cleave/aoe ?

[vale pine]

don't need to

it is up most of the time

using backstab outside of dance to get form back is rly not a big damage diffrence

means, your overall performance in a key will stay the same even if you don't optimize for these 0.5% dps

[keen dome]

Whowhoahoahoahoha. It happened

Just normal though

[vale pine]

NICUUU

619 is 619

almost mythic

[keen dome]

Yep

It's a 4.5% DPs increase on Dungeonslice and a 3.4% on boss

I had a Myth Skardyn, haha

[lilac stag]

Gz

[keen dome]

Almost 70k agility with. Absolutely bonkers.

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-blackpink-rose-apt-rose-mak-rose-rosé-gif-17440988294150416254

[keen dome]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[keen dome]

🫡

[spark tusk]

Jump 3 times

[keen dome]

Jump is nice and easy, at least.

[vestal escarp]

Orb running away inside blue team at court

[spark tusk]

Honestly I prefer the other two when it’s not messy on the ground

[keen dome]

Ye

[spark tusk]

Jumping adds three extra button presses that have to be woven in

Also I use my thumb as part of pressing some modifiers like alt

[keen dome]

Easy for me 'cos the bottom of my palm rests on spacebar, so jump a quick taptapap without moving my hand at all

[spark tusk]

So trying to press jump with space bar and any modifier keys on alt is a challenge

Oh I see

My palm rests further left

[keen dome]

I'm a sinister person so my right-hand is my keyboard hand. thumb on ctrl, etc.

[vestal escarp]

All three are annoying in different ways

[spark tusk]

Which is what I use to press ctrl for binds

[vestal escarp]

My guess is it's their way of nerfing steroid trinkets this early in expac

[spark tusk]

Yeah

[keen dome]

Yeah

[spark tusk]

I really preferred branch to this

[keen dome]

Same

Also the little mini-game of extending branch

Honestly Smolderon's was the goat.

It had a great animation. Push button get buffed

[spark tusk]

Thirsty little good bois faithfully found me

Unlike the transmitter orb

Which just does whatever it wants

[keen dome]

Haha yeah

[tribal blade]

the other day i had to jump 3 times right as daggers went out on kyveza

was mid jump

got daggered right to the face because i couldn't readjust mid air

[keen dome]

What's the ideal timing for it? Spawn it just prior to burst then run into / jump / stand and hit cooldowns?

Or during flag opening?

[tribal blade]

you can spawn it before flag

[vale pine]

can use my weakaura if you want

[tribal blade]

since it'll exist for a while

even w/o picking it up

[vestal escarp]

Optimal optimal optimal would be conpleting the task as you press shb

[spark tusk]

I have been trying (and generally failing) to finish the task immediately before first sectec

[keen dome]

Nod

[vestal escarp]

Sectech would still get buffed

[keen dome]

Oh, I should peep it ye. Thanks!

[vestal escarp]

Clones at least

[uncut bloom]

I changed to dracthyr and the jump 3 times has killed me in a key as I’ve glided into swirlies

[keen dome]

Oh noooo

That's a really funny point

[tribal blade]

you can even spawn it on pull if you ant

[vale pine]

https://wago.io/rZdjR8Vm7

its only visual tho

[tribal blade]

like 1 gcd after pull

works

[vale pine]

i am lazy

[tribal blade]

so long as the boss isn't going to move too far

[vale pine]

i bind transmitter to flag

[spark tusk]

Same

[tribal blade]

i like to have it not bound

so i can preplan which direction i'm facing

[vale pine]

probably the smarter option

[keen dome]

Ye, I have a trinket button I've got muscle memoried so I'll probably leave it unbound.

Uh, unmacro'd.

[vale pine]

but my lazyness wins

[vestal escarp]

Sub might not even have a 90s steroid next patch

Dark times ahead

[tribal blade]

in M+ it's an absolute clusterfuck of a trinket

[keen dome]

Thanks for the WA, this is very helpful

[spark tusk]

I was thinking of changing, good point I haven’t thought of

[vale pine]

also no idea if the next tier set is similarly good

not forshadowing anything

[tribal blade]

hot tip, click off levitate before you use it

or else the jump thing takes twice as long to complete

[vestal escarp]

Hmm i imagined tiersets would get progressively stronger honestly

[near rivet]

you can jump-shadowstep if you want to speedrun task

[uncut bloom]

Damn, CDs might be over by the time you finish jumping

[near rivet]

like jump-shadowstep-jump-shadowstep

[tribal blade]

yeah the priest in my guild knows i hate being levitated

so i was levitated on pull on kyveza

and got the jump 😦

[vestal escarp]

Bro legit griefed btw

[uncut bloom]

At least they aren’t gripping you whilst you collect the orb

[keen dome]

hahaha

[tribal blade]

nah i said what happened over disc and he apologized haha

we had no idea that was actually a thing

[vestal escarp]

[tribal blade]

if it's actually harmful to prog he won't do it

it's funny, sin has so many different talent variations you can run in M+ right now

it's a lot

and sub you can swap out 1-2 talents from the standard build

but for the most part it's set in stone

what happens when the talent tree doesn't have good variety

[keen dome]

Yeah. And it's basically the same as the raid build too.

[tribal blade]

exactly

i've been trying every build that i see top sin rogues running

and they're all within very similar amounts of dps

[keen dome]

That's interesting

[tribal blade]

it's more so what you play better

it's why you look down the list and almost every sin rogue has a different build from each other

[keen dome]

Pretty cool, honestly

[vestal escarp]

Simple strong talents in the right positions make a difference

[tribal blade]

yep sin's tree is very strong

in that regard

[lilac stag]

In other regards too

[tribal blade]

the 1 advantage sub has is keeping a lot of ST damage while only needing to swap a few things out for aoe

but i dunno if that's actually intended or just a side effect

i have the feeling blizz didn't 4-d chess that

[vestal escarp]

Aoe rn is one hero talent thats always locked in and sectech

You cant talent out of your main aoe dmg engines

[lilac stag]

I’ve stayed sub for ovi and it feels good. At least with our comp I’m cranking boss dmg and not falling too far off overall.

[tribal blade]

maybe i'll try sub out the next time we reclear

on ovi

[vestal escarp]

I went sub at ovinax for 2 reclears to help with parries

Even if it's borderline exploiting

[tribal blade]

eh it's not a huge exploit

[vestal escarp]

Fight lasts too long for sub to feel strong to me

[tribal blade]

and also it's just playing the spec as intended

[vestal escarp]

Sin has an insane spike at 6 mins with execute and bl

[lilac stag]

We’re still progging, but 10-11% of overall boss dam. Curious what happens at the 6 min mark. Lol

[vestal escarp]

It rivals with spymaster casters

[tribal blade]

ovi isn't really a damage check boss anyways

it's a mechanics check

[lilac stag]

We got WA shuffle bus last night

[vestal escarp]

You can skip some nasty eggs with good boss dmg

[lilac stag]

I’m so over the WA bosses

[vestal escarp]

Oh yeah

[tribal blade]

yeah ovi is a miserable addon boss

[lilac stag]

Actually ruining my enjoyment of raiding

[tribal blade]

the start of every raid night on ovi was "EVERYONE CHECK YOU UPDATED TO THE LATEST NORTHERN SKY UPDATE"

and then of course 1 person forgets

[vestal escarp]

Rl with snitch wa

[tribal blade]

also we had some raiders running some other addon that was fucking up marking people with egg breaks

[lilac stag]

It was still having issues last night.

[lilac stag]

Link?

[vestal escarp]

Octopals verifier something something

Im on phone rn

Soz bro

[lilac stag]

K

Everyone needs it? Or just RL?

[vestal escarp]

Rl checks your addons and wa versions

[lilac stag]

Apparently me putting NS wa in a folder reported to MRT that my version was out of date

[vestal escarp]

This stuff is annoying as hell

Neltharion fyrakk etc etc

[tribal blade]

they keep making mechanics that are borderline impossible to coordinate properly without weakauras

to tell you where to go

and then their solution was "oh hey, let's private aura everything"

i'm thinking if you could do the egg breaks on ovi without weakauras

i don't think it's possible

[vestal escarp]

Hm with nerfed timer you probably could

[tribal blade]

lol yeah would have to be mega nerfed timer

[vestal escarp]

Its 8 sec to get into position

I meant with current nerfed timer

But the worm in the middle of the eggs ruins everything

You cant really eyeball the mechanic even tho on paper you could

[tribal blade]

i dunno, it would take serious coordination to be able to do it on the fly

like to be able to quickly decide the 2 people to be at each egg

it would be a mess of 8 people trying to talk in discord

[vestal escarp]

Like, 8s is a lot but still visibility is a mess

[tribal blade]

you sometimes barely make it to your egg even with the WA telling you where to go

[lilac stag]

At this point at our gear level princess looks better to prog on

[tribal blade]

it is better

100%

[vestal escarp]

Princess very slick boss

[lilac stag]

This is just misery

[tribal blade]

once you get used to how the mechanics hit

princess is mostly scripted

[vestal escarp]

Lot of personal responsibility but group griefing is low

[tribal blade]

well...

the amount of times i've been killed by my guildies putting orbs down the middle of the room

is very high haha

[vestal escarp]

Yeah but just let them learn mechanics

[tribal blade]

i actually brought it up on our last raid night and my RL agreed it's a problem

i was seriously struggling with daggers for a while

until i learnt you can legit just walk off the boss

and never get hit by her shotgun ever again

[lilac stag]

walk off?

[tribal blade]

yeah move off boss

when daggers go out

because she shoots out a set from herself

[lilac stag]

ah gotcha

[tribal blade]

and if you're in melee range there's a chance it's pointed at you

[vestal escarp]

First set is a frontal basically

[tribal blade]

and if you're directly on her it's highly likely you ave 0 time to move

[waxen lotus]

So I have a question Fuu's guide recommends Versatility flask, but Alchemical Chaos is simming much higher from me. Do I trust the sim or is it baiting me by lining up good stats during burst windows?

[lilac stag]

AC good

[tribal blade]

the most frustrating part of princess is how fast those daggers hit

it's REALLY fast

shockingly fast

[tribal blade]

i run vers flask as sub, it means you have a static amount of DR too

[alpine wraith]

haha yea yday i died to some invisible daggers

because i moved as the line disappeared

[tribal blade]

what's really bad as well is the eclipse during intermission

[keen dome]

Ye, same.

I love stacking some versa

[vestal escarp]

I have a screenshot

[tribal blade]

i've had my dead body clear across on the other side of eclipses multiple times

it's bs

like not a little over, far over

[vestal escarp]

Bro died to that dagger

[tribal blade]

ahha

[vestal escarp]

We started a forensic investigation

[tawdry kiln]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[desert panther]

Man this spec is fun when everything clicks

got top 20 heroic kyveza while figuring stuff out lol. Super fun

[autumn flame]

Can't for the life of my remember last time I had to drop uptime on boss just to dodge the boss knifes

They are really quick tho gotta give you that

[vale pine]

nicu, gz

[edgy zenith]

where do you send second CB in Silken?

on an Evis/Coup in damage amp or just with naked SoD after?

or if you hold sectech during amp until CB is up, do you not lose a cast?

[rocky wolf]

how do you guys use flag on mythic silken? on the 2nd flag ive been using it on tall boi and then use everything else on the beetle after he charges. but in p2 it seems harder to use it on CD and its a pretty long hold to wait for all the dispells

[hazy breach]

You dont need to wait for all the dispels, every dispel gives the boss more damage taken

[rocky wolf]

oooooh

[livid olive]

+1

[hazy breach]

Its +20% dmg taken per dispel

[livid olive]

Did not realise that for too long myself

[rocky wolf]

i can be max melee and not fuck with the dispells right?

[livid olive]

Yeh

as long as people actually go fully under

[hazy breach]

Should be able to be in just regular melee range as well, but yes being max range is safer

If people are lazy and dont go right under

[rocky wolf]

were still fucking up the pull in dance anyway but this is good thanks

[edgy zenith]

eleem help

[hazy breach]

Well CB doesnt work on evis

Idk as long as you have it for your second sectech in the second amp its fine to send it on either sectech or coup earlier

[edgy zenith]

wdym by this

[edgy zenith]

if I send it on naked SoD sectech is it up in time for second sectech in amp?

[hazy breach]

It does not give it 100% crit

[edgy zenith]

is this just a bug?

[hazy breach]

Yes

[edgy zenith]

i love this spec

[livid olive]

[willow aurora]

guys why is that stonevault trinket sims that high for sub on bloodmallet?

[hazy breach]

Because the profile is simming without talents

[edgy zenith]

how do sims work with Broodtwister egg trinket?

just perma main stat no movement or?

[hazy breach]

It just randomly rotates

[edgy zenith]

so it's actually a pretty good trinket for sub?

was simming higher than contract

and mandate

[hazy breach]

Its fine

[edgy zenith]

is it sim bait kinda though?

[hazy breach]

No

I mean it sims the same as contract

Use it if you want to

[lilac stag]

lol I think we need a temp !bloodmallet

[steel horizon]

scroll of momentum 💪

[muted agate]

SAD

vanish doesnt dispell the slow on cot 2nd boss

[fiery fog]

how is sod used now? only when sectec is up + dance?

or more like, what do i do inbetween cooldowns

[lilac stag]

backstab, finish. Reduce cdr

!guide

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Oxi

[lilac stag]

Wowhead goes over all of it

[fiery fog]

there are some parts that are outdated though

so i wasnt sure what is and what isnt outdated

(like the first part when going on rotation where sepsis is still present and its saying to use sod on cd)

how i understand it, is to send sectec on cd with symbols and in cds with 2 dances and maybe two or three dances in between cooldowns?

[lilac stag]

Depends on boss

[wind canopy]

It's more of you send SoD and dance if you can expend a charge while having enough ready by the time your major CDs come up

[lilac stag]

You want 2 sod / st / dance every flag

[lilac stag]

The rotation is not outdated. https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

[vale pine]

the guide should be up to date unless i forgot to change one of the optimization sections

but if you find something wrong or worded confusing just let me know

[lilac stag]

@vale pine

[mental comet]

[obsidian garnet]

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-rosé-blackpink-bruno-mars-gif-1539050173426684783

[vale pine]

where is this?

[lilac stag]

The link I posted

For rotation

In the intro

[vale pine]

oh, i thought i removed that

interessting

must be some versioning problem

[lilac stag]

True to sub, things magically break each edit.

[vale pine]

removed it

i probably should re-write it

to put secret as the core element

because you technically align things to it

[fiery fog]

btw does this still work? when i go into meld i can only use backstab

[vale pine]

you should be able to use strike

[lilac stag]

Is multi target correct with the use of sblades, or is that image relying on tornado?

[vale pine]

unless something broke

[lucid jackal]

Has anybody else been noticing their vanish keeps insta breaking

Is there any way to avoid this from happening

[lilac stag]

don’t spam strike immediately

[fiery fog]

ill check back in 2minutes when i have meld back up

[vale pine]

the opener is fine, you in general want to spread ruptures before doing cooldowns

[lucid jackal]

I'm not It's like, I'm vanishing, I try to shadowstrike, and then its not letting me do it cuz I'm insta breaking stealth

[lilac stag]

You’re likely stabbing

[fiery fog]

are you perhaps right clicking the boss frame

[lucid jackal]

That can't be the case because SS and BS have different keybinds for me

[vale pine]

you got a trinket bound to vanish?

[lucid jackal]

Nop

[vale pine]

[fiery fog]

your character probably starts autoattacking while in stealth

[lucid jackal]

Most likely

Do I need a stop attacking macro

[lilac stag]

what do logs show is happening?

[fiery fog]

thats what gave me a 8 log on princess because i had to play without hero talents for 2 minutes lmao

[lucid jackal]

I wouldnt be able to find a log of it happening since I barely use vanish outside of opener, save it mostly for utility

[vale pine]

it should atomatically /stopattack when using vanish

unless that broke

[lilac stag]

my assumption without having anything to actually look at is it’s a spell que issue

[fiery fog]

this is what happens to me sometimes and i think its an issue with rightclicking the frame of the unit you are targeting (its assa i know but also getting put out of stealth)

[lilac stag]

be it from spamming or hitting an attack too soon after vanish

[alpine wraith]

you took dmg

normal vanish breaks on any dmg

or some things like monk statue etc etc

[lilac stag]

Yea monk still fucks

Which is hilarious

[fiery fog]

you can strike but only when you are in range is what im seeing right now

with meld

in range as in melee range

[vale pine]

shouldn't you have improved vanish which does not break from damage events

[lilac stag]

Teleport is only true stealth

[vale pine]

yes

[fiery fog]

ah

[vale pine]

it works like this

[timid jolt]

Why do we need 2 dance for flag btw? Just for my understanding

[vale pine]

if you are in combat with a boss

you can't enter stealth after

but outside of this

you can press stealth

which would give you the extra benefits for strike too

so e.g. in a mythic+ dungeon you can meld - stealth during pakcs

[alpine wraith]

nope still breaks

super easy to check on ky veza and other bosses

that do dmg early on

[alpine wraith]

if you press vanish and take dmg before using strike it is joever

[lucid jackal]

Backstab and SS are on different keybinds

[alpine wraith]

unlucky

[lucid jackal]

Why would spamming SS after vanish cause me to break early

[vale pine]

when did that change

[lilac stag]

get a log otherwise it just speculating.

[alpine wraith]

it happens to me too sometimes

[lilac stag]

Been all expansion I think

[alpine wraith]

yea just we have been using subterfuge for a while

not anymoe tho

i mean if you did some pvp without subter you should be kinda used to it

[lilac stag]

can probably recreate it on a tank dummy

[vale pine]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856/vanish

if improved vanish is not working propperly

then they broke the spell

[alpine wraith]

surprised?

also it is not only dmg that breaks it btw

some spells from allies also krangle it can also be those ones

[lilac stag]

monk statue is easiest to recreate.

[vale pine]

its not in the tooltip

so i assume they did introduce some bugs

unless "improved stealth" is the mentioned effect

maybe its a race condition

when the damage event comes in before improved vanish applies

[vale pine]

that was a problem before

some trinkets put you out of improved vanish

friendly spells shouldn't, but i remember some having this problem

[finite elk]

For embelishment on wrist what is suggested on wowhead is elemental or dusk

is there a difference?

[vale pine]

2x iris is the most neutral option

silken is about on par if you get good uptime

embellishments are very close to each other so can go with more or less your prefered

[finite elk]

ok thx

[mental comet]

which embel for M+? 2x iris or 2x dusk? i crafted ascension/writhing early but looking to replace

[alpine wraith]

for m+ double dusk is usually the best

[pliant topaz]

Pretty sure it’s the new stealth changes they’re making.

It was broken like this on ptr too

Still broken

[spark tusk]

what changes?

[alpine wraith]

krangled ones

[vale pine]

subterfuge for assassination i assume

[steel zinc]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lucid jackal]

Is engi bracer better than any other bracer in the game btw

Almost bis so trying to figure out the last few slots to minmax

Unsure if the mastery/haste bracers from raid end up being better cuz +3 ilvls, or the engi bracers because its 1 stat

[vale pine]

they are close

but you can put your embellishment on bracers

[alpine wraith]

i like engi mastery bracer

BIG CRITS

[hazy breach]

Vers+mastery crafted is pretty much identical in sims as well

[alpine wraith]

yea but big crits man

also talking about those progging silken and i never crit mandate

AAAAAAAAA

do you wait for first dispel in p2 to use mandate

or just send on cd

[lucid jackal]

TO bis, or to engi

Cuz I have these

But theres no real good bracers in the game rn for sub

[hazy breach]

To the engi ones

[lucid jackal]

So I'm unsure if its just these, or crafted, either normal or engi

[hazy breach]

Probably crafted eventually

But if you already have those no point wasting crests rn unless you have everything else upgraded already

[strange chasm]

I have 2 myth rings. It's probably better to slam those to 639 than upgrade my last crafted piece to 636?

[lucid jackal]

Yeah its like a 2 week solution lol

Orlike something I fix in 2 weeks

[vestal escarp]

void elf bis in 0.7?

[vale pine]

possible

[vestal escarp]

race is cosmetic anyway

[lilac stag]

Sim

[alpine wraith]

depends which rings they are

we are kinda skewed towards vers/mastery

other spreads are a bit weaker

even at 639 vs a crafted ring

[lilac stag]

626 to 639 boe was like 8k for me. Seemed rather lackluster.

[alpine wraith]

yea but vs a for ex haste crit ring

know what happens?

boom 20k

[lilac stag]

mmhm

[alpine wraith]

i mean those numbers are not as big as we think

it is like 1.x or less

but still the diff is enough

[lilac stag]

I’ve got boots I’m waiting to up until another cata charge

[alpine wraith]

rn im in gilded crest jail

[lilac stag]

I may just make vers/mas neck

[alpine wraith]

i did

[lilac stag]

We likely kill court once

[alpine wraith]

didnt ever drop court neck

[strange chasm]

I've got the dawn ring and boe ring

[alpine wraith]

reclearing court is not that hard it seems

[strange chasm]

Nothing left to upgrade other than these or last crafted piece

[alpine wraith]

damn i still have a long way road

[lilac stag]

well timeline wise o expect is to extendo at that point.

[alpine wraith]

have to upgrade trink 2 crafted items

[strange chasm]

Yeah I'm full 639 other than rings and crafted wrist

[alpine wraith]

big blasta

i have crafted ring crafted neck wrists and boots

boots are 619 rn

but i still have so many gilded to use

[lilac stag]

daggie, wrists and ring are 636. Neck next I think.

[alpine wraith]

oh true dagger too

in other news we have the sheet again almost there now time to make it prettier

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-homer-simpson-nerd-yelling-insult-gif-7884166

(I say as I study this intently)

[alpine wraith]

some things are still tied to cdr but the write up for general use also works

[static juniper]

do we want to sectech out of dance?

[alpine wraith]

only in special circumstances i have a bit of an explanation above this thing but mostly it is what eleem wrote too

[left ledge]

I send sectec out of dance on the naked symbols set

Don’t see a point in holding it

You get it back for cds

[static juniper]

++

[left ledge]

Sub is pretty lenient rn

Just make sure you have 2 charges of sod and dance for cds

Rest is pretty flexible I feel

[static juniper]

for the couple of days i am playing the spec I noticed moments where i was sure i would have gotten sectech back for SD, but did not try to risk it

as i was confident doing it back in df s1 since we used sectech later in SD window

[left ledge]

If you’re ever sending symbols naked

[static juniper]

rather than first

[left ledge]

You can probably sectec

[alpine wraith]

you have to know the encounter

if you get some downtime you cant get sec tech back

[left ledge]

Yeah ofc

[static juniper]

yeah, i guess it will come with experience

having a blast with sub tho...a fresh air from healing this tier/season 😄

[left ledge]

As you prog a fight you’ll eventually see this period of time where you’re just backstabbing forever

If you have like 20sec of just backstabbing because you’re waiting for flag

[static juniper]

currently playing it as an alt, but i would definitely consider it as a main next tier if i raid

[pliant topaz]

we do have that in the apl btw. the condition to hold sod/dance for flag is if flag cd < 30. but the condition for sectech is if 20<flag cd < 30

so it does send a fully naked no sod nothing sectech as long as it can get it back by flag

sectech is just an insnae amunt of damage per cast. its the damage itself + tier effect for rupture/future evis + 2 UB hits (which htye hit hard) + 3 flawless form stacks + potentially fazed buff

its a big button

[left ledge]

Nice I’d assume so

[pliant topaz]

so we maximize it

[left ledge]

Makes sense

Yeah past opener you also get that naked sod timing but without the sod charge so it’s full naked sectec

[lilac stag]

Dot5 sub is playing around sectech

[alpine wraith]

yea the cb thing is a bit weird we have 2 situations that are kinda close but both can be annoying to do

[left ledge]

But I just didn’t know how to explain it without going deep into cd timers

[lilac stag]

2-1-naked repeat

[pliant topaz]

yea its a bit cursed. once i get some time in 2 weeks Imight try to rewrite the apl in terms of sod/dance charges remaining rather than strict timers

might be better idk

[lilac stag]

I will say I don’t feel like shit holding stuff when needed. Ghuun f.ex

[alpine wraith]

the only possible win i saw was the not sending dance sec tech if CB is like 8-9 secs away

but eleem found the using cb on second sec tech in cds now

so idk if that stands

as the cd becomes discombulated on the middle

so in theory you can use it once between

BUT it has to be as it comes of cd almost

at least for ky veza and sikran rn it is not work same with court (because of mechanics btw)

if anyone is on queen try it and tell me

[alpine wraith]

Also in another things i do the 2 tank 3 heal strat so we skip lots of eggs at the end but how does this look now

This is ovi nax mythic

[spark tusk]

I'm not progging mythic but this would be super helpful if I were

nice

what do you mean by All Dances are doubles?

Like every time dance is on the map it means you use them for both sectecs?

[grave abyss]

it takes two to tango

[alpine wraith]

you dance twice on each dance icon

ok everything ready now we go PoE

[keen dome]

While it's a bit busy, this is extremely helpful once I understand the flow. Really nice.

[alpine wraith]

i mean withouth the explanation it is the most i could try to just put there

[keen dome]

Ye, it's really solid imo

[leaden prairie]

why is the cp refound delayed

sometimes

sub sucks

[alpine wraith]

coup can refun on any of the 3 hits

so even if you begin with low sht it can go to 7 and refund

[pliant topaz]

theres a cute talent called replicating shadows

[alpine wraith]

and also the RS bug

[pliant topaz]

been bugged since 10.2

[leaden prairie]

not coup

[pliant topaz]

its RS bug

delays refund

[leaden prairie]

waht

im confused

this

[pliant topaz]

yes

[leaden prairie]

im not pressing rupture

[pliant topaz]

if u have this talented, refunds get delayed

doesnt matter

what youre pressing

[leaden prairie]

uuh

ok

[pliant topaz]

as long as youre talented in it

!bugs

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue

[pliant topaz]

its in there

[leaden prairie]

how much of a loss is it to not use this talent in m+

[pliant topaz]

pretty big loss

but if it makes u feel any better, kush pushed without this in 10.2 as sub

cuz it tilted the fuck out of him

[leaden prairie]

i mean its tilting me a lot

I feel like im playing bad

but im not

well i am

but thats unrelated

[lilac stag]

Just play sht

You won’t notice a dif

And be less tilted

[pliant topaz]

well yes. u lose a lot of cps essentially

it is a generally big damage loss

but also the delay is roughly 0.2 seconds

so if ur ping is low enough/ youre fast enough u can try to play around it

which is litearlly sstage 4 space aidds

[lilac stag]

I waste more cps from the delay. lol

[pliant topaz]

but thats sub

[leaden prairie]

I mean my weak aura is doing a sound if my cp is refounded 0.3s after

and it doesnt do a sound on that one

so its prolly refounding 0.5s later

thats a lot

[lilac stag]

Mmhm

idk where the .2 is coming from

I’m 6-10ms from the server and that shit is so fucking annoying

[leaden prairie]

i trained myself to just react to the cp refound

like on outlaw

cause i think its more fun

[hazy breach]

it can refund during the entire gcd from what i know

Its just whenever you get 7 sht

[leaden prairie]

but with this bug i cant do that its tilting me

[lilac stag]

This makes sense

[leaden prairie]

also

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxBTsVHF4nxrdChauzUncmS9BhKAcaydTO?si=KEXctEs4gE0j24oC

on that second finisher

it procs

the moment i press the finisher i hav 6

not even 7

i get the 7th after the finisher

so you cant even try to be ready for it !

actual ass

wtf

[hazy breach]

You can be if you just hold it a little bit if youre at 5 or 6 sht

But ye its ass

[alpine wraith]

yea that is an rs thing

[left ledge]

yeah

it happens with coup too

its very fkin annoying

because sht isnt consistent either

[uneven shard]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vestal escarp]

Shadowstrike

[scarlet void]

hello, I'm trying to find out if it's possible to create an SSS spam macro without using all Death Symbol at once? lol

[hazy breach]

!symbols

[wicked jolt]

How to Use Symbols of Death:
Symbols of Death is used with 3 or less seconds of the Symbols of Death buff remaining or if the buff is not up.
Watch your Shadow Dance cooldown before using Symbols of Death. If Shadow Dance is not on cooldown or if the remaining cooldown is lower than 10 seconds it is usually better to delay the Symbols of Death cast till after Shadow Dance.

[hazy breach]

Damn thats not it

Hmm

[lethal gale]

!SOD

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[hazy breach]

[scarlet void]

OMMMMMMMMMMMG

u're my god

Thanks ❤️

So I guess it works with all spells of this kind?

[wind canopy]

Yeah

I know DKs use it with Death’s Advance

[merry agate]

why is shadowcraft so inconsistent 😦 sometimes after coup it takes like a second to trigger it and sometimes instant after press....and sometimes in opener it doesnt even work at all

drives me nuts sometimes wasting so many cp's

[green niche]

Ok so I'm trying to learn sub after years of assa... It's growing on me

But like we have 3 sod

But only 2 shadow dance....

Does that mean I should use 2sod with 2 dances

And then one sod just with nothing?

Chain it all?

[merry agate]

you skip one dance before cd's get ready

just sod + sectec so you have 2 when you send cds again

[green niche]

Ohhhh so I don't shadow dance immediately you mean I keep shadow dance for next CDs?

[merry agate]

basically 2 dances for cd's....1 dance sod sectec then 1 sod sectec and then the cyccle repeats

[green niche]

When you say CDs u mean SB and Flag right?

[merry agate]

aye

[green niche]

Oh ok I like that. 2 dances for CDs ok

[merry agate]

some quirks are still there to fix 😛 but overall it feels pretty nice

[green niche]

To me what's wild is the constant full bar of combo points

[merry agate]

#1271971289396936735 message

[green niche]

It's somewhat unnerving even

[merry agate]

nice writeup 🙂

[green niche]

We don't have that in assa ahaha

[merry agate]

in dance its hectic and every second counts then it slows down like hell but i like that 😄

[green niche]

Yeah it does feel like that stalker ambusher vibe

[vale pine]

think of it like this

you want to use 2x symbols, 2x secret 2x dance every time with your big boys

(flagellation/blades)

and between them, you play around secret techniques cooldown

so you use symbols with secret on low cooldown left (8 sec or lower)

and can use secret first or 2nd finisher in dance

only time you need to think a bit more is closer to your big cooldowns

you might want to use a symbols blank with secret, or delay your cooldowns

[green niche]

Ok thanks! I'll try thinking that way

[quaint lodge]

Question: What does our dmg breakdown look like

[timid jolt]

So you want the second pair of dance and symbols with flag/blade yeah?

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sacred cedar]

I was trying to find your post that contained the overrides for simming consumes, I was sure they were in the #tc-research channel but I couldnt find it anywhere - turns out I had the pins in that channel scrolled down 1 post, and couldn't see it was the very top pin

[torn island]

I can’t believe y’all gonna nerf my shadow dance

I cannot belibbb it

[quaint lodge]

Oh not for ST, Imeant for AOE sry

[torn island]

What is this 10 sec bs

I cannot get jiggly with dis!

jiggy*

[vale pine]

haha, happy you found it

[near rivet]

damn

kinda bricked key

due to coup bug, since i used it on evading mob

how do i unfuck myself?

alt+f4 didnt worked

[topaz raptor]

what happens? you can't use any moves anymore?

i assume dying would fix it

[near rivet]

yea, it fixed

basically

when you use coup on evading mob

it doesnt consume escalting blade stacks

and you cand do coup

[alpine wraith]

alt f4 should fix it

every time it happened to me it was fixed

[near rivet]

didnt helped

but died and depleted

and death fixed it

[sinful sluice]

if you have full cp and have about 2 seconds left until cd, do you just release evis and stack cp up again or wait for it and release evis after pressing dance/symbols?

[alpine wraith]

you wait

but also you want to send sec tech first

[sinful sluice]

why is that tho

i do send sec tech first, but i just didnt know why

cuz before patch i thought i send tech after evis for passive stacks

[alpine wraith]

just it does more dmg

dont think too much

you want to get it on cd asap

and it also gives more coups and extra unseens

[tribal blade]

coup now gives more cdr, which changes things quite a bit

[wooden kernel]

is there any reason its ss>flag>evis rather than ss>flag>rupture?

for building before cd's in ST opener?

[alpine wraith]

evis gives snd

[steel horizon]

we cookin boys

[wooden kernel]

so im doing (full cd's + Flag/trink + Blades > Dance/Symbols> Dance/Symbols> naked symbols repeat

is this correct?

and are you sending the naked symbols for pandemic w last one or no?

[misty condor]

Given the choice between two identical item levels, would you guys say Shadow Binding Ritual Knife or Ovi'nax's Mercurial Egg is the better trinket?

[pliant topaz]

u can sim them. but realistically theyre both fine

the main trinket u need is transmitter

[lucid jackal]

Egg is pretty forgiving

A lot of fights are pretty movement heavy

[misty condor]

Speaking of, I noticed Whispyr rates Transmitter bottom tier for the minigame, but most others, including fuu, rate it S tier. Is that just individual bias?

[sinful sluice]

Cot feels so nice to play sub

[lucid jackal]

Sub literally needs transmitter

Its the best burst spec in the game, and it's a 1:30 cd trinket

[sinful sluice]

You get full flag cds every pull before 2nd boss

[lucid jackal]

Sin can skardans instead

Since u hold transmitter for 30 for deathmark

But sub doesn't have an alternative

[sinful sluice]

Yeah 1:30 burst fits so nicely

[uncut bloom]

Before I got it I thought surely it’s not that good - finally got heroic version - it’s actually insane.

[tropic rapids]

Is it worth to use more than once SoD before pull?

[alpine wraith]

nope only 2 chargers stay

[unique remnant]

ok crew.... I have been having an occasional, but similar, effect occurring to me on sub rogue in mythic + dungeons. Occasionally I will get gripped/hooked/displaced back towards a mob. This is usually occurring when I am running away from something, like a swirly. I cannot think of anything that would be causing this, and it does not seem to be my casts. Has anyone experienced anything similar?

See the video here for an example in grim batol... but it has happened in other dungeons. The arrow points to where I get displaced to at ~4 sec in the video. Also my warcraft logs are here: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gB9VkWdwHm7aT4ZY#fight=last&type=summary&cutoff=-1

[wind canopy]

Did you have coup prepped?

[grave abyss]

looks like coup to me

[old venture]

that's what I was thinking

[unique remnant]

not sure. why would that bring me back in?

[wind canopy]

Because there's a dash tied with it

if you're far enough away

[old venture]

ye

[unique remnant]

hmmmm

so i would have to cast eviscerate (as coup) to get the dash?

[misty condor]

yeah that's just Coup de Grace, it dashes you toward your target

[unique remnant]

I dont THINK I pressed eviscerate... but I also was not aware of that, so possible. is that dash functionality stated anywhere in the talents or buffs when coup is ready?

[old venture]

it's possible it got spell queued

[unique remnant]

hm, that is likely

[old venture]

and no the dash isn't listed anywhere in the talent

[wind canopy]

And it's not listed in the ability/tooltip 🙂

[old venture]

because that would just make sense

[unique remnant]

crazy

lol

[old venture]

the game's good

[unique remnant]

ok well that is most likely the case, because i could not think of any other ability I have that would produce the effect... and it's on random, different, mobs

[old venture]

we went from beta for azeroth, to qualityassurancelands, to Betaflight, to the War Withalpha

unfortunate

[wind canopy]

It's not random, but probably not tracking it

*tracking/paying attention

[sinful sluice]

take a look at this

probs coup is killing you

happens quite often tbh

i just take cheat death just for this

[old venture]

yea the animation lock/dash was brought up all throughout beta

and.... yeah

because surely in modern wow where there's 81238168273127368123871278 swirlies on the ground/aoe stomps to avoid

it SURELY wouldn't ever be problematic

[wind canopy]

[unique remnant]

damn

this seems so buggy

[sinful sluice]

well if you dont want this

you can play with black powder...💀

[unique remnant]

I guess I just that's just another thing to track.... dont press eviscerate when coup is ready and swirlies are coming

[sinful sluice]

is it even trackable

[unique remnant]

either way. I appreciate the input

[sinful sluice]

i already put so much energy dodging gimmicks

and tracking cds

[unique remnant]

basically just sounds like be careful when coup is ready

[lucid jackal]

yes

[unique remnant]

alright... ill keep this in mind and hopefully no longer have this problem. thank you all for the input. much appreciated

[tribal blade]

missed timer on 15 mists because fdk lower overall than sub 😦

[sinful sluice]

can anyone share their ovinax run as sub?

cant find youtube vid for it

everyone seems to be running assa

[alpine wraith]

i have something planned for tomorrow if you didnt see the cool picture yet

[sinful sluice]

holy

thx for sharing

whats blank tech between 1 and 2 at the top?

[uncut bloom]

Huge

[tribal blade]

i haven't been playing enough sub in keys, i can eek out more damage

[plush roost]

The mitochondria is the powerhouse of the egg breaks

[plush roost]

Damn thats some fat sub damage, what was ingara like?

I imagine your cds went hard af

[tribal blade]

1st boss? uhh like 2.2 mil or so

at the end

i was doing the exact same amount as the arcane

i fucking nuked that boss yeah

playing sub feels really good there

[plush roost]

Being 1.5 min is so nice cause if you 2 phase you usually have your second set of cds up

[tribal blade]

yeah exactly

[plush roost]

Maybe i dabble with sub sometime

[tribal blade]

it's less scuffed with 1.5 mins

[plush roost]

Yeah its annoying knowing you wont have deathmark up, and you dont really wanna hold kb

So you endup 3 phasing it sometimes zzz

And then you're deathmarking the treedude

And a lot of maze pulls are 5-6 mobs so big nimble flurry value

Yknow i kinda see the angle

[crystal rain]

I don’t have transmitter sadly, but I have a max mythic skardyns. Is it worth holding cds to align with skardyns? Or nah

[sinful sluice]

wont you be fucking up the rotation too much?

[tepid trellis]

i dented my desk during Ansurek prog

cuz i got charged into a web blade

[inner glen]

will there be sub rogue buffs? i like that spec the most out of all rog specs atm

[pliant topaz]

prob not

[tepid trellis]

its in a pretty good spot atm

so prob not

[late oxide]

I see on warcraft log that sub rogue are on top of spec but sin seem like more player than sub

[spark tusk]

Yes, sin is much more popular

[tepid trellis]

if the specs are remotely close, people tend to move away from sub