subtlety

[strange chasm]

120mil did you spend any on the new mount?

Is that the tiny dip at the top

[spark tusk]

I don't have 120M to be clear, that's overall revenues not profit

I've spent a shitload

and yeah

I spent 1.2M on the mount

[lilac stag]

enchanting dust was good steady income until people found an exploit

[spark tusk]

it like went down to half over the last week

from what it was

I feel like

[lilac stag]

It crashed hard about 3 weeks ago. Then again last week.

Ideally you BS to get flawless back up

[thick field]

Wait i thought you get flawless from backstab?

[swift tinsel]

you do

[thick field]

oh wait i'm dumb i read BS as black powder for some reason

[lilac stag]

don’t push that button. Like ever

[thick field]

yeah so you bs to get flawless, but if youre capped out on combo points and dont have flawless up against over 1 target you black powder, right?

thats what the guide says

[lilac stag]

I’d be more inclined to rupture something

[swift tinsel]

can always throw out a rupture too depending

ye

[plush garden]

why is black powder still a thing

[thick field]

if all targets have rupture, would it make sense to just keep bs and eating combo points until you get flawless, then evisc?

or just send the bp?

[swift tinsel]

personally I'd probably evisc a prio target if you aren't gonna rupture

[lilac stag]

In that case you’re probably BPing. Likely not the case as something should be coming back up (ST/sod)

[swift tinsel]

if you don't have coup

[thick field]

okay gotcha

[swift tinsel]

get saucy with a Kidney

[lilac stag]

We aren’t spreading rupture nearly as much so the chance to spread more is good. Or cc something.

BP is a wet noodle on trickster

You have options

[thick field]

yeah in m+ we kinda just send like 2 casts of rupture on 4 targets total and then go into burst yeah? or are you rupturing all targets OR ust going straight into burst?

[swift tinsel]

which is super neat

depends on how long the pull is gonna last

[alpine wraith]

at the beginning you go insta on cds

because you have charger

so you strike flag dance blast while activating transmitter

[thick field]

charger is from symbols yeah? so you dont spread rupture then pop symbols/cds for charger?

[alpine wraith]

you symbols before m+ begins

so you have 2 charger

[thick field]

you mean like before you even put in the key?

[alpine wraith]

yes

[thick field]

sure that makes sense, i mean more like in the middle of the dungeon between packs

with no charger already stacked

[alpine wraith]

yea you strike rupture storm rupture

[thick field]

okay yeah makes sense thank you

[alpine wraith]

then go into cds

[smoky aspen]

does the sim take into account the 2 supercharger combo points you can get pre pull?

[viral phoenix]

is this a at 4 target count thing and you'd rupture more if theres more mobs active

[hazy breach]

It currently does not no

Not by default that is

[plush garden]

forgot i had pickpocket macro'd to my kidney/cheapshot macro
turned into a giant beetle mid pull

[lilac stag]

Only time I’m rupturing first is during a chain pull when tank is gathering. Otherwise I prio getting sectech on cd

[thick field]

ah fair getting sectech on cd also makes sense

[vale pine]

sounds like you had fun

[lilac stag]

I think there’s def some learning the pulls kinda priority

[warm aspen]

OH yeah

[lilac stag]

the other dps will def impact choices

[warm aspen]

i love baiting my tank's CDs with that

make them think someone pulled xD

[plush garden]

it was the only fun part of the key, because i put too much trust into guildies and they almost ruined a easy key

[vale pine]

happens

[plush garden]

at least it's "almost", still got loot and timed it

[vestal escarp]

stunning secret

[oblique mauve]

Does sub do more boss dmg than sin? I've been proggin brood as sin but they want to squeeze out more boss dmg since we have enough aoe/cleave for adds.

[warm aspen]

pretty sin's slightly ahead in pure st now, but sub has the advantage of playing one build for both aoe and st

so when sin optimizes for aoe we do more st than them

but idk if sin plays full m+ build on brood lol

im beeg stoopid

[pliant topaz]

yea

[viral phoenix]

for brood in particular doesnt sin end up doing more boss damage with their prio/funnel

[oblique mauve]

Would you do trickster or deathstalker on brood?

[viral phoenix]

or does sub get similar value

[pliant topaz]

ive killed as both. trickster was more enjoyable

[remote shard]

no way to do mage tower without soothing darkness now

gg

[warm aspen]

is "both" not the pre-minirework answer lol, not trying to start argument, just genuinely confused

is ds even still a thing? esp on cleave/aoe?

[pliant topaz]

there are logs of both kills right now too. the DS kill does abuse the trickster bug though.

from my experience trickster does more damage

is more fun

and less cringe

[warm aspen]

yeah i swear playing ds now is just

derp

[idle aurora]

Good lord I really want to try to get into sub rogue but the rotational barrier to entry is frying my eyeballs and brain

[vale pine]

completely unbiased ofc

[warm aspen]

good sir it's literally free

[vale pine]

but i agree

deathstalker is not well designed

[warm aspen]

sub is now a 12121212 spec

[vale pine]

is it?

[warm aspen]

just with slightly more buff cooldowns to manage

[hazy breach]

1000% isnt

But ye

[idle aurora]

I mean the rotational priority list reads like a math problem

[vale pine]

i mean he is correct

if you remove all abilities you use

[pliant topaz]

theres not that may logs of sub on that fight anyways, hard to know but yeah from my experience DS is a disaster

[vale pine]

and cooldowns

outside of 2

then its a 2 button class

[warm aspen]

im just trying to help the new person feel less nervous sir

[lilac stag]

Armin and I have zero bias with Derp Stalker

[idle aurora]

Is that really what it is outside of the cooldowns?

[warm aspen]

like a slaps roof of car moment

[idle aurora]

Maybe I need to focus on stuff one thing t a time

[warm aspen]

it's actually 121212 INSIDE of cooldowns lmfao

almost always strike-finish

[vale pine]

rupture, backstab, evis, storm - so depending on target count 3-4 buttons

but its like

[idle aurora]

lol I even tried downloading hekili to see if the rotational helper would give me a feel on dummies and it kept telling me to use a button I couldn’t even use lol

[vale pine]

saying any spec has only 2 buttons

[lilac stag]

Hope you’re paying attention to your cp refunds and not striking over them with your 121212

[vale pine]

if you have no cd's up

or less

[keen dome]

Can't believe they're ignoring our best button: SecTec.

[warm aspen]

oh true lmao, we're sometimes a 122 spec, it's so actually so sexy

[warm aspen]

WAIT you right

mb mb mb

big sad now, sectech is the giga dopamine button

[pliant topaz]

okay this is not possible because of RS

this shit is the most frustrating thing ive ever had to play with

[soft summit]

Just outside of cooldowns it’s only backstab and evis?

[warm aspen]

i do hit it every once in a while even with rs

but yeah it's so fking weird

[narrow dirge]

is sub viable for low keys or is sin just way better? kinda hate playing sin tbh

[vale pine]

and rupture

[warm aspen]

...just have fun with ur fav spec in lower keys no?

[keen dome]

When you say low keys, what do you mean 'cos it can mean different things to diffetent people 🙂

[vale pine]

and storm if you have more targets

[meager coyote]

what happened to bloodmallet 💀

[lilac stag]

I have

[lilac stag]

We hacked it

No talents

Enjoy

[idle aurora]

Sorry can I compound on what your saying as a newbie question lol so outside of cooldowns it’s evis to get snd running rupture then rupture again to spread then black powder?

[vale pine]

we haven't pushed updates to the baseline profiles, so talents are not read correct, as such it sims without talents

[pliant topaz]

subs viable but its a bit weird on lower keys. ur cds feel wasted since shit dies so fast, u cant farm enough dances etc. even a 12 (if youre playing with good specss like enhance) feels low

it gets better on 13/14s

[grave abyss]

hekili is kind of ass, but I'm curious - what button?

[soft summit]

What do sub rogues bring to a high level mythic?

No hero. No. Brez. No Iron wire. No aoe stun etc

[keen dome]

Finally, something similar to me.

[meager coyote]

KEKW the mage approach

[narrow dirge]

I guess below 8? Haven’t done a key yet

[keen dome]

Absolutely fine if you enjoy playing it then, ye.

[vale pine]

think eleem already made a pr to update talents, its fairly easy fixable

[remote shard]

Premeditation works only for stealth right

[vale pine]

so soon™️

but also

[remote shard]

not dance

[vale pine]

!sheet

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[viral phoenix]

Speed shroud brother man 😎 🤟

[keen dome]

Like Armin said, stuff dies fast, so you can feel like you wasted some buttons. But you get to blow bosses up pretty quickly.

[viral phoenix]

HOORAH

[idle aurora]

I don’t have game open I’d have to look it’s the red hooked blade looking one I forgot name you need to be in stealth for it just always sits up on screen

Never changing

[warm aspen]

so for our ONLY hero talent(shhhhh poopstalker doesn't exist), the first thing u wanna do is to unbind black powder

and then, out of dance, ur rly just doing everything u can to maintain ruptures and get dance back

u can spam some evisc but it ain't gonna do dmg

[idle aurora]

Seriously lol the rotational helper made me use it like 45 times in a row lol

Ok that’s good to know

[warm aspen]

yeah sub is now basically cooler outlaw

u just cleave

flurry baby

so toss bp into the fking bin

and then basically ur playing around the "fazed" shit from hero talent

basically, u debuff enemy(they get crit more), buff yourself(with finisher damage + flurry), and also gets a stack a super-duper-high-damage-but-dash-you-into-mechanics evisc

[idle aurora]

Then double rupture to apply and spread?

[vale pine]

they put the auto cleave on all 3

assassiantion has nimble

[warm aspen]

LUL true, now we have outlaw, poison outlaw, and purpur outlaw

[idle aurora]

It’s the burst windows does it all take place at once always? And do I bind like 9 abilities to three hot keys?

[vale pine]

i mean you can similarly compare other things that ended up unique for one spec but are now shared

e.g. mobility of sub with double shadowstep

or the more burst oriented damage profile

[idle aurora]

Sorry I’m horribly adhd and I’m reading the guides but the guides are sometimes overly technical

[vale pine]

or cooldown stacking ^^

[idle aurora]

Md my brain goes fuzzy

[warm aspen]

but @idle aurora rupture is sorta its own thing, u never use it during shadow dance, and only use it on things that live for 10+ seconds, don't worry about it too much

what you wanna focus on is just cd timing

opener is big tbh, super comfortable

[idle aurora]

Ok so sit on dummies for an hour until opener is muscle memory

I can do that

[warm aspen]

yeah ngl the current rotation feels mostly derivative from opener lol

[vale pine]

it is similar

[idle aurora]

Then practice cooldown windows?

[warm aspen]

just get a feel of when each thing comes up

[idle aurora]

Every guide has different macros with different amounts of abilities on them lol

[warm aspen]

oh for macros

[idle aurora]

That’s what’s confusing the hell out of me

[warm aspen]

the only one you need is cold blood + secret techniques

[idle aurora]

Ty btw ❤️

[warm aspen]

basically, symbols of death and cold blood are both just locked in to sectech

but symbols is kinda better as its own bind

[narrow dirge]

Symbols macro with dance is not good?

[warm aspen]

but yeah if u just smack a dummy, backstack evisc/rupture out of dance, and replicate the shadow dance combo from opener, you'll be on your way

[spark tusk]

No, there are times when you will symbols and not dance.

[warm aspen]

smaller optimizations can come later

[warm aspen]

oh actually, how bad is it to consume the first supercharged finisher out of dance?

like dance is 10 seconds out, but sectech + symbols are already up and checking their watches VERY impatiently

[spark tusk]

I don't know the answer to that.

[warm aspen]

oh, are we allowed to @ mods or "shadowblades" for questions lol

i dont think i saw in rules :((

[spark tusk]

You're allowed to ping but they aren't the only ones that can answer questions. I know it's a bit quiet right now

[warm aspen]

but yeah basically @narrow dirge there are times where i'll send the first supercharged finisher out of dance just to get the next set of small burst rolling sooner

and then if i have dance and symbols macro'ed i pop an extra symbol charge and screw myself for the rest of the fight

[idle aurora]

Oh hey Lisonna I think I was just looking at a weak aura from you lol

[spark tusk]

Possibly

[clever delta]

imagine if sub catch up after assa nerf

that would be something

[idle aurora]

Your recommended on method

[warm aspen]

think we already strong enough good sir

i dont wanna end up like ele xDDD

[spark tusk]

Oh I am? I didn't realize that, that's cool

[idle aurora]

Yeah

Under weakaura it says search for lisonna and use any of those with like three others

[warm aspen]

but see what's more cool is that on this server u legit just get to talk to the ppl who made the recommended WAs

[keen dome]

They are very good weakauras

[warm aspen]

and the guys who actually wrote the guides

like holy shit

[spark tusk]

Yeah it's a pretty nice place.

[warm aspen]

it's like im living among celebrities in beverly hills!

[narrow dirge]

I’ve had most of my cds in one macro cuz I saw somewhere ona guide that it’s good.. oh well

[warm aspen]

nah that's a bit cursed

[alpine wraith]

yea SoD is not something i would macro

[idle aurora]

Yeah icyveins has a bunch of juiced up macros. Wow head slightly less, method way less

[narrow dirge]

Been raiding for the past few weeks with this jank 1 button macro ugh

[keen dome]

1 button macro?

[warm aspen]

[grave abyss]

so you're saying I shouldn't have a shadowdance + symbols + cold blood + tea + trinkets + shadow blades + flag macro?

[idle aurora]

I knew a guy who had like a seven button cast sequence as a macro one lol

It was called opener

[spark tusk]

isn't that a palimor thing?

[warm aspen]

actually tho, can't u legit play ret like that

xD

[keen dome]

Also, for what it's worth: I do use a macro with Dance + Symbols. It is absolutely sub-optimal, you still want both bound, and it's def ideal to play with them as independent buttons. But if don't mind, it's pretty comfy.

[warm aspen]

same tbh

[narrow dirge]

I had shadow blades symbols my trinket dance all together with my pot

[warm aspen]

it's something u'll sometimes have to play around

BUT

blades HAS to be its own thing now

or at least it goes with trinket + pot

not dance

u wanna dance, build, send sectech/coup, THEN blades

[idle aurora]

So should I learn as one button

[warm aspen]

PLS NO

[idle aurora]

Or try to learn as separate

[warm aspen]

turn back, i beg you, there is still time!

[keen dome]

Probably best not to do that, yeah. Since you ideally will be pushing them a little independently. I think Blades + Pot is okay though.

[idle aurora]

Hahahaha

[keen dome]

I'd say try to learn them as seperate buttons, yeah.

[idle aurora]

But for the record no black powder on bar

Even though hekili had me use it 40 times in a row

lol

[warm aspen]

yeah ngl bp is just cursed for trickster

[keen dome]

I would not recommend using hekili for Sub. It is not very good with it.

[warm aspen]

it slams for deathstalker

but then deathstalker overall is cursed

SO cursed

[viral phoenix]

!sod

[wicked jolt]

Macro to prevent accidental uses of extra charges: #showtooltip Symbols of Death /castsequence reset=2 Symbols of Death,null /cqs

[idle aurora]

Ugh I think I picked death stalker lol

[warm aspen]

NOOOOO

[idle aurora]

Ok that needs to change lol

[warm aspen]

there's literally a guy named "poopstalker" in here somehwere lol

it's REALLY not fun

[idle aurora]

XD

[hazy breach]

It was alright on ST before the patch

[warm aspen]

oh yeah it was chill

[hazy breach]

But with the patch you end up needing the 10% sectech cdr from trickster for the burst window to feel good

[warm aspen]

sit back, run rotations, let hunt them down do like twice as much dmg as entire trickster tree combined

[hazy breach]

Because as deathstalker you either have to delay your symbols or have 2nd sectech not affected by supercharger

Neither of which feel particularly fun

[warm aspen]

i swear it also gets gimped in heavy movement fights too

[idle aurora]

Ok so trickster better for alignment reasons?

[warm aspen]

like when u dont get to white attack a bunch

[hazy breach]

And on any aoe deathstalker feels not great because needing to eviscerate to apply mark doesnt feel great

Despite the eviscerate being buffed enough to actually do more damage than BP at low target count, it still feels bad

[tame terrace]

doesnt look like ur focusing enough

[idle aurora]

Oddly sub rogue feels like the meele version of a fire mage now that I am thinking about it

[tawdry kiln]

bro did this on every try

[hazy breach]

Well fire has had a lot of variation

[warm aspen]

what even is this man

[hazy breach]

But yes sub does no damage outside of cds

[warm aspen]

raid?

[tawdry kiln]

yeah ovinax around P2

[warm aspen]

heroic right

[tawdry kiln]

yup

[warm aspen]

thank fuck

if ppl pulled those numbers and got to mythic ovinax i think i just unsub on the spot

[spark tusk]

Mayhaps the raid lead?

[warm aspen]

@idle aurora but also also deathstalker feels like straight ass when you have to kill any adds

like SV totem

grim butthole 3rd boss

[spark tusk]

I've been in mythic raid pugs where the raid leader was shit on damage but like, they were actually calling lots of stuff on comms and without them doing calls we wouldn't have killed the bosses we did

[keen dome]

Raid leading is a big decrease to DPS a lot of the time, ye

I do like, 400k less DPS when I'm leading my weekly heroics to when I'm just blasting 'cos I have to stop to type and need to constantly be watching the group.

[tawdry kiln]

nah the raid lead was a guy pinging eggs

[covert apex]

Did they just ruin the first dance?

[keen dome]

Is it the comedy Ovi'nax where people can't count

[covert apex]

Out of combat for 6 seconds? Wtf is that shit?

[tame terrace]

i raid lead as outlaw on p3 queen and am still top dam

[covert apex]

So basically you get 4 sec longer on dance for the pull?

And then nowhere else

[tame terrace]

idk those raid leaders just suck

[spark tusk]

It's not a talent for raid

[warm aspen]

imagine it on mist/cot

[spark tusk]

It is mostly a pvp talent

[warm aspen]

or even db tbh

[spark tusk]

or niche cases in keys

It is certainly a weird talent to be clear

[warm aspen]

it seems like a pvp thing tbh

[ornate current]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[keen dome]

It's really nice in keys.

[covert apex]

Couldn't they just make it so when you enter stealth or shadow dance it fills your combo points? Why even change this talent

[keen dome]

It's a pretty good talent for key / open world content. Not useful in the raid. And yes, I imagine pretty great in PvP too.

[warm aspen]

it's personal bro

they did it to spite u

trust

👍

[spark tusk]

That's just premed

with less steps

[warm aspen]

i mean the thing is they could stack lmao

imagine u enter dance and instantly get 2 finishers worth of cp for free

and then shadowcraft(if it works)

we go from 131212 to just 3222222 xD

[keen dome]

That's a lot of ruptures.

[warm aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/kung-pow-enter-the-fist-thats-alot-of-nuts-gif-24255245

[tepid trellis]

[covert apex]

Then change the proc condition for first dance from 6 sec out of stealth to something else, like after x finishers

[warm aspen]

nah it'd be a goated fking m+ talent if they just reduced the time a bit

like 4 seconds

and holy shit we'd be eating every other spec alive

[covert apex]

Why keep the weird proc condition when you can make a better one

[warm aspen]

bcuz it's actually pretty natural wth the flow of m+ lol

[covert apex]

Good for m+, what about everything else

They can keep the same exact thing, with a better proc condition

[warm aspen]

i mean the existence of a m+ specialist node isn't a cardinal sin right

so long as we had good raid/st alternatives too

[covert apex]

Something literally not working in other content is indeed a problem

[warm aspen]

idk does IC work in raid for sin

[keen dome]

But not every talent has to be useful in every circumstance. I think it working well in M+, and that being it, is fine.

[covert apex]

And again, if they just change the proc condition they can achieve the same result with more versatility

[keen dome]

Because you can use that point in something else in raid content.

[warm aspen]

does sudden demise work in raids either lol

[topaz raptor]

Yeah you change your talents if your talents don’t work with the content

[warm aspen]

how about u go to sin channel and tell them blizz should delete IC and demise

xD

bcuz those dont work well in raids

[real panther]

tww s1 things dont change at all... i'm tired of this bullshit

[wind harness]

xdd

[sly shore]

did an 11 mists

did 1.9M overall

sub is okay

[warm aspen]

ayy like this

[sly shore]

[real panther]

acording to "experts" its not ok

[sly shore]

assa will do more

easily

sub better on first boss though

[warm aspen]

oh yeah my sin bro was like 1.7/1.8 mil on like

3rd week of m+

but they're actually getting weaker and weaker in overall

a TEENY tiny bit at a time tho right

[real panther]

do you play tornado guys?

[warm aspen]

fuck no

[sly shore]

no

[warm aspen]

i like how we have a "no dust" role here

[real panther]

ok cause on the fuu doc its tornado in the spec so I was wondering

[warm aspen]

and i want a "no tornado" one for myself

[leaden prairie]

outlaw is busted

[clever delta]

what build you play kpb i was checking logs and even tho thjere is sub 15 logs they do no dmg compared to their team mates

and most i see playing nado

[chilly tree]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[topaz raptor]

Yeah i think casual and kush were messing around with tornado whenever i saw them on sub

Should be pretty close either way

[warm aspen]

you mean busted as in strong

https://tenor.com/view/right-natalie-portman-star-wars-rd_btc-gif-24051918

[topaz raptor]

Link the clip

[leaden prairie]

yes outalw is the best spec in the game

[topaz raptor]

1st pull NW

[tepid trellis]

not even 2mil?

teeny kpb

fallen off

washed

unfort

[leaden prairie]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxL0rZXPZj8ieY2JOJNjWIUegl8izWGfM0?si=hf1py9ksfrIhGI_l but yes of course

[uneven scarab]

what is this spec bro

[leaden prairie]

outlaw !

[uneven scarab]

where ur damage

Its tiny

[warm aspen]

sustaining 11 mil damage on first tier, truly wholesome chungus spec

that needed buffs

[uneven scarab]

Warrior op

[warm aspen]

:DDDD

[leaden prairie]

im target capped !

[topaz raptor]

must have been bad RNG

[leaden prairie]

surely

[warm aspen]

yeah skill issue tbh, just roll 7 buffs next time with an extra hidden buff to remove target cap

[leaden prairie]

i could have rolled 7 buffs pre key but they removed that

[uneven scarab]

No cap outlaw op should prob nerf more

[warm aspen]

BtE now only targets yourself

irl

god if my legion self could see outlaw now

feels fucking bad man

[sly shore]

you should see the rest of the group

[warm aspen]

tbf it's an 11, there aint even that much dmg to do lol

[hoary moat]

are the bloodmallet sims broken?

[idle aurora]

So does eviscerate cleave?

Reading rotation again :/

Is finisher always Evisc unless rupture needs reapply?

[warm aspen]

yup

evisc shadow strike backstab all cleave

due to flawless form + nimble flurry

[idle aurora]

And always 2 ruptures to spread?

Then back to evisc

[warm aspen]

there's no set number of ruptures u gotta cast lol

there's no point in eviscerating out of dance basically

u just use it when u got nothing worth rupturing anymore as a way to dump cp

[idle aurora]

Then what should I be doing?

Oh rly?

[warm aspen]

yeah

we do half the damage of tanks

out of dance

xD

[idle aurora]

Does rupture snapshot?

[warm aspen]

nope

u just get it out, and it starts doing more dmg when u go into ur buffs

[idle aurora]

So do you use it at all

Woah really?

[warm aspen]

that's why u rupture lol

[idle aurora]

Holy crap

[warm aspen]

u leave it up, and it naturally starts doing more dmg whne u pop dance and symbols and stuff

but then it also goes back down

after ur dance + symbols ends

right

dynamic dmg

[idle aurora]

:0

So when you go into burst window it goes into burst window with you??

Ok that solves that problem in my head lol

Lol that was for my guild discord describing me in this discord sorry lol

[warm aspen]

ayy ez

and again rupture is just

if it lives more than 10 secons slap a rupture onto it

[bronze hatch]

Yeah don’t spend a lot of brain power on “should I shadow dance or flag for rupture”
Just get a rupture out

[cinder axle]

In the ST Rotation they use Dance + Symbole - Shadow strike - Coldblood + secret Techniqe -Shadowblades

why dont we use shadowblades with dance?

I dont understand why we dont want the 20% buff from Shadowblades for our first techniqe with cold blood xD

[bronze hatch]

We use it with Flag

[warm aspen]

uh im pretty sure they said

blades doesnt work for sectech

xD

[uneven scarab]

Blades doesnt affect sectech

[bronze hatch]

Echo in here

[cinder axle]

Ohhhh

ok

ok then it makes sense because we can use the 16 sec window for the eviserate and stuff

[bronze hatch]

I don’t think it’s that much of a loss if you forget, just one GCD or so that could’ve been full combo points

[cinder axle]

y think so too i macrod the 3 cds together

but i was wondering if i missing some big crit or somethin^^

[bronze hatch]

We have some wiggle room with flag and new blades now as to when to Blades

Always blades with flag

[cinder axle]

Used to play assa but wanted to swap to sub and its rly fun but i got no verse at all xD

[bronze hatch]

Same, stack mastery, profit
Vers is just the least useless of the other three, lol
If it comes yay, it’s better than Haste at least

[cinder axle]

Rly? If I sim my char its the best stat

[bronze hatch]

I guess crit is better now than during Invigorating Shadowdust era but Idk how much

[bronze hatch]

Intradesting, I’m a noobie sub, just getting into it, maybe point for point it is better?

[grave abyss]

because you don't have any

[bronze hatch]

Ahh

[cinder axle]

y true but still the highes rogues rock like 17k-20k vers

[uneven scarab]

vers is highest damn in st for sub

mastery rlly close but also gets value in aoe

[warm aspen]

does versa buff nimble flurry cleave lol

[uneven scarab]

not sure but id guess yea

[still quartz]

vers makes you tankier 👌

[uneven scarab]

Also true

Big W

[cinder axle]

y i wanna go for 17k too

cause i cant use def cds every second like assa cause of 100 energy

[still quartz]

vers is on par or better for st

compared to mast

[modest river]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[still quartz]

feint still vital to survive aoe tho

no gcd for feint is a big qol change

[granite river]

Is this real change ?

[still quartz]

you mean no gcd for feint?

yeah it doesnt have gcd now

[granite river]

Damn I missed that, pog

[near rivet]

oh boy

its so easy to do dmg on court as a sub

stuff lines up with amps without even trying

[tepid trellis]

yeah you just wont be able to hit as many of them as you could with shadowdust, but its still quite good

[near rivet]

with shadowdust, what things could you also cover?

p2 second amp?

[tepid trellis]

yes

[near rivet]

its a ramped up dmg taken one

i see

[tacit yacht]

There's a symbol charge and sectec is ready or will be ready, but no dance. Wait for dance or send it?

[half comet]

are we symbols before pull?

[tepid trellis]

that + the two ramped up ones in p3

[near rivet]

hmm

the plan is to nuke the boss down

before last ramps happen

some guilds lust p2 amp

[tepid trellis]

Yeah then you just gotta pick the one amp where they are stacked in p3

if you wanna skip the enrage one in p3

[near rivet]

yeah, will see

been as a stand in today for one ele

[gritty knot]

duel of the rogues

[near rivet]

i wonder if they put me back on the bench

[lucid lily]

lol nice details name

[gritty knot]

haha

lets fkn go rank 3, make sub great again

[vernal drift]

where can I find the new sub apl?

[pliant topaz]

its public on raidbots any time u run a sim

[vernal drift]

ty sir

[true palm]

Hello guys which trinkets would you recomend for raiding and m+

[steel horizon]

transmitter

[tribal blade]

why is the challenger's peril change so complicated

just nerf the affix from 15 to 10 seconds

[steel horizon]

lol thats too hard for them

i agree its a weird way of going about it

[tribal blade]

this just makes every dungeon have 90 seconds more on the timer, and the affix is literally the exact same amount of punishing

[steel horizon]

well you essentially have 6 "free" deaths now lol

[tribal blade]

not really

[steel horizon]

that was their goal anyway

[tribal blade]

90 seconds more on the timer is the "new timer"

and then deaths are exactly the same

at least that's the way i see it

[balmy notch]

hi quick question if raiding at all is not an option, can i play sub without transmitter or do i just give up and go assa?

i mean for ~2900 m+ not anything too serious

[steel horizon]

they just wanted to nerf +7's and above and that was the way they did it

[wide shoal]

Guys, need some opinions here, how does sub feel in m+ and raid?
Just started gearing my rogue and kinda went with outlaw, but i cba im sub at heart

[balmy notch]

you can play subtlaw if you play trickster, its sub but with blade flurry

[pliant topaz]

prob easier to play sin.

[pliant topaz]

pretty good

[clever delta]

will be funny

if next tier dont have 90s trinket for us

[tribal blade]

in before we have to use a conquest pvp 1 min trinket

[clever delta]

will be hilarious actually

cant wait

we get two 2min ones and alter them

[tribal blade]

oh my god fucking cursed gameplay again

like that

[gritty knot]

wait what did they do with the timer?

did I miss smth

[steel horizon]

all 7's and ups got 90s added to the timer

as weird kind of way to nerf challengers peril

[gritty knot]

thats weird indeed...

[wide shoal]

Typical warrior behavior

[tribal blade]

probably a meme, but true

😉

[vestal escarp]

amazing incelcore

[bronze hatch]

why does everything that isn't transmitter be 2 min

[wispy bolt]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[topaz raptor]

9/11 stares me down every day

[topaz raptor]

Why is tornado 60s!!!

[bronze hatch]

Poor tornado, how pain in the ass

[steel horizon]

its filler anyway. you dont wanna use it during dance

[bronze hatch]

I keep trying tornado and i never come up with a time using it doesn't feel awkward af

[steel horizon]

just use it right after dance ends so you still have some stacks of FF

[slate basin]

logs from a 13 siege sadge no sub rogues 😦

[edgy zenith]

kyveza do you cloak the charge or pre-cloak before charge targeting happens

help

[flint oar]

Doesn't do that for me, were you just running a bad build?

[fair stump]

just play the build without tornado, I almost never used that button either

[hazy breach]

Precloak it, as in once youve moved into position you can press cloak

[left sail]

has anyone had the issue where the macro /cast Shadow Dance /cast Shadowstrike doesn't work? It gives me an error the first time i hit the hotkey that i'm not in stealth, and then if I press the key again now that i'm in shadow dance, i'll shadowstrike. Is there any better way to be able to activate shadow dance and shadowstrike in the same GCD with one key?

[hazy breach]

But id probably still recommend to use cloak during the last few seconds of the intermission to help minimize movement with blazes

[paper helm]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[edgy zenith]

yeah, that's the preferred method, but healers are struggling with Queensbane dot

[short radish]

tell them to heal better

do you have the filter to see whos doing what healing for queensbane?

[hazy breach]

I mean using the cloak on queensbane is fine too

[short radish]

ye i always cloaked queensbane

regicides was always sorta whatever

press feint or something

[hazy breach]

Its mostly for other people rather than yourself

But ye

[pulsar quarry]

Struggling with the new rotation. From fuu's wowhead guide I'm reading it as basically send SoD on CD and then line everything up to that? Or is there a new cadence that we should aim for? It seems like we still send a naked SoD between main CDs? The only other change that I'm seeing is that we now send SecTech in SoD even without Dance?

[hazy breach]

You do not really send symbols on cd, you want to make sure you can symbols and dice twice during blades/flag

And then its just a question of how much you do inbetween those, and i'd recommend trying to mentally anchor it around sectech cds

So whenever sectech is up you want to press it asap, and you ask yourself "if i press dance right now with the symbols, will i still have 2 for cds?" and the same with symbols

#1271971289396936735 message

I tried explaining some examples as well, but for the most part as long as you have 2 stacks of both for flag and blades is doesnt matter a huge deal wherever you put your other ones

[fair stump]

What's the command that shows you the gear tracks and their M+ level?

[pulsar quarry]

Thank you for this write up. I'll review it and practice. I seem to be 40-50k behind my target dummy sim which feels like more than just your normal discrepancy

[steel horizon]

the fix we been waiting for!!

[warm aspen]

sectech fix waiting room

[steel horizon]

RS bug is now a feature

[warm aspen]

ngl tho

i AM rly surprised by how well sub plays in keys now

baller reworks

[steel horizon]

way nicer for sure

[half comet]

what made it better in m+

more symbols for the extra dances u get?

[warm aspen]

yeah more symbols

like the small downtime between packs make it so ur almost perma in symbols

[spark tusk]

@west pond https://wago.io/nyidlKqRB FYI - Per request the Dance/Symbols charges at Flag WA. Feel free to send me feedback, right now there's no text colors yet or anything but I have pushed up the dance/symbols charges into Conditions so you can add them if you want.

The idea here is to help you determine if you should send a dance/symbols with sectec when sectec comes up, based on how many you'll have at flag.

Added it to the collections page

Also comes with my pack as is so if you use my pack you'll just get it baked in

[still sundial]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[west pond]

[strange chasm]

Will this work aside from ur existing wa pack?

[spark tusk]

It doesn't require my pack, it's also included in my pack

it's a standalone, will work with or without it

[strange chasm]

I'm always scared to update weak auras

Since I've removed alot from yours

[spark tusk]

I have it placed in a specific location so it's next to sectec in the pack because the decision is kind of a joint one between flag and sectec

but

you can put it wherever you want

[spark tusk]

yeah that's the risk you run in making heavy customizations

But in general my auras are as standalone as I can make them

and don't rely on or require each other

[tame terrace]

hmm

i thought ele was busted

ok sub feels so much better in keys now

[pliant topaz]

its pretty fun

[warm aspen]

hi guys, are we allowed to doom in here

[tame terrace]

we dont send naked symbols anymore right?

[warm aspen]

becuz im looking thru old dungeons for trinkets and im not seeing any 1:30 burst trinkets that aren't haste lol

[tame terrace]

we just line everythign up with sectech/big cds?

[warm aspen]

are we just never gonna have usable trinkets out of m+ lol

[tame terrace]

if they bring back court again for some reason we get this

[pliant topaz]

there are a lot of 1.5 min trinkets for strength users. not a lot of 1.5 minute agi classes in general.

so maybe they make those trinkets strength/agi now who knows

[warm aspen]

just tried to sim that at 639

it simmed like shit

[warm aspen]

yeah that's sorta the problem lol

im seeing the trinkets of my ret friends

[tame terrace]

oh right 1.5 min

[warm aspen]

and im just drooling

nah whetstone is just not actually THAT great overall

[pliant topaz]

transmitter fucks

[warm aspen]

no main stat so..

[tame terrace]

no i just remembered u said 1.5 min trinkets

i forgot to look through shit for that

lol

[warm aspen]

well also

i had a vault whetstone back then

it simmed lower than a fking darkmoon deck trinket lmao

please bring back crafted darkmoon trinkets tbh

alchemist stone asssssss

[pliant topaz]

thats kinda irrelevent

its actually better

[warm aspen]

huh how so

[pliant topaz]

trinkets are tuned to be about the same power.

if the trinket has stats attached to it

and an on use, the on use will be weaker

[warm aspen]

ohhhh i see

[pliant topaz]

but if it has no stats attached, the on use will compenstate and be very strong

whichis what we want

[warm aspen]

yup

but then this one's on use...idk

i think we can only use things that scale our kit right

not things that do its own damage unless it's some insane shit like mandate?

[pliant topaz]

depends

generally, we really want on use stat trinkets (like transmitter)

somtimes, there are strong stat sticks that could be okay. but other times, we dont mind damage proc trinkets (like the ones we use now : mandate/contract)

[flint umbra]

dang im having some energy issues

[tame terrace]

this one from sm i guess

[flint umbra]

outside of cds im having to wait like 4 seconds between abilities

is it supposed to be this shit?

[pliant topaz]

yes

[flint umbra]

how is that fun?

[pliant topaz]

!design

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety is designed to be a spec with highs and lows. During your cooldowns you do immense burst and have plenty of buttons to spam but conversely outside of symbols and dance you do not do any damage whatsoever. This means that having some periods of "afk" downtime where you do not press a button because you're out of energy is the intended way the spec plays. As long as its not happening inside your cooldowns (flag/blades/dance/symbols) its not a problem at all, and especially nothing that having more haste would "fix".

[flint umbra]

why is it this bad though?

[spark tusk]

Because contrast

[pliant topaz]

^

[warm aspen]

idk, 639 contract is getting outsimmed by 639 spyglass for me lmao

[flint umbra]

other burst specs dont have it this bad

[pliant topaz]

the worse u feel outside, the better u can feel inside

[pliant topaz]

and they dont burst as hard

[flint umbra]

its very unfun having to sit there and watch your character auto attack

[flint umbra]

not true

[pliant topaz]

okay

[flint umbra]

dh bursts harder lol

[warm aspen]

would u ban me if i make a "that's what she said" joke for that

[hazy breach]

No

[pliant topaz]

no it doesnt

[warm aspen]

[pliant topaz]

and also thats a 2 min cd

vs 1.5 min cd

[tame terrace]

making energy matter is interesting, instead of having another spec that just doesnt have an acutal resource

[flint umbra]

ok they def do at least in aoe

[pliant topaz]

nah

[flint umbra]

but yeah just sitting there for an entire 40 seconds is rough

theres no working around that?

[wind canopy]

Huh?

[hazy breach]

Well ye our main cd blades doesnt work on aoe

[warm aspen]

uhhhhhhhh

[pliant topaz]

LMFAO

[warm aspen]

aren't we sitting there more like

15 seconds

[flint umbra]

fair

[warm aspen]

between each dance

in m+ combat

[flint umbra]

nimble flurry things

[pliant topaz]

if blades worked with sectech or nimble

[hazy breach]

But no, you have downtime where you dont do much

[pliant topaz]

you would notice it in aoe

[flint umbra]

is it by design

[hazy breach]

Thats the intentional design of the spec

[hazy breach]

No

[flint umbra]

yikes

not sure if thats better or worse

[pliant topaz]

are we sure about that?

at some poing a bug is just a feature

if it stays long enough

[warm aspen]

bro it's nice to have downtime where u can spread some ruptures and do some mechanics without feeling like u just lost out on dmg lol

[tame terrace]

not every spec needs to be 100% uptime damage damage damage blast blast blast resources arent real

[hazy breach]

Thats true, but if you were to ask them if they think blades should buff sectech i cant imagine them having any explanation as to why it shouldnt

[pliant topaz]

racoon said its because blades is rogue damage clones arent rogue

but idk

[tame terrace]

i know why eleem

[pliant topaz]

by that logic nimble is rogue damage and should count

[tame terrace]

shadow blades empoweres your WEAPONS

and sec tech does clone shenanigans

cloens arent weapons

checkmate

[warm aspen]

isn't it literally just a bug lol

[flint umbra]

no way i could have a build with vigor and maybe tea?

[pliant topaz]

drop cb

[warm aspen]

where they can't get our buffs to buff pets

[flint umbra]

that kinda ruins the sec tech damage tho right?

[pliant topaz]

it makes it worse

doesnt ruin it

both cb and tea are meh

[flint umbra]

id also have to drop both lethality points

and still wouldnt have a point for tea

[pliant topaz]

yes

u would drop letahlity and cb

[wind canopy]

You drop soothing darkness to pick up tea as well

[warm aspen]

yeah that's why u drop the piss worthless vanish healing thingy

lmao

[pliant topaz]

and obviously soothing darkness

[flint umbra]

oh yeah lmao

that shits ass

ty guys

should make the gameplay more fun

as i wont be sitting still doing nothing as much

cause it was feeling worse than assa pooling

[wind canopy]

Yeah, taking vigor and tea to get more backstabs outside of CDs definitely will make it feel better

[warm aspen]

well

it's actually kinda bad

2.6% overall loss

[pliant topaz]

yea

[warm aspen]

ngl tho i kinda hate how cd doesn't perfectly line up with sectech

[flint umbra]

im fine with it being worse

just want it to be fun

[wind canopy]

I mean, it is. You don't have to play every single second to do good damage. There's times just resting and waiting is a perfectly fine playstyle.

[flint umbra]

not about performance

its about it feeling boring

just felt unfun sitting there

especially when the highs are so high

when youre in burst

[wind canopy]

I maen, you can't expect to have high highs and high lows.

[hazy breach]

The highs are high and the lows are low

[warm aspen]

yeah i gotta be real, vigor doesn't exactly help us

[flint umbra]

i mean theres a way to make the lows better

[warm aspen]

when we do half of a tank's dps during downtime

[flint umbra]

just for less of the out of energy moments

[warm aspen]

like yes u could be hittng buttons more, but then u look at the dmg chart

and ur like

oh

[flint umbra]

cause those really annoy me

[warm aspen]

im perma sitting 90 apm

[tame terrace]

shrug, the expected draughts of sub make it interesting compared to sin and outlaw

[warm aspen]

but im doing no dmg

[tame terrace]

droughts

[warm aspen]

0 rewards for my play

[flint umbra]

i mean sin is like that too

at least was

seems to be different now with DS

[tame terrace]

u have so much energy compared to sub as sin

[flint umbra]

yes but you spend it fast af

[craggy badger]

I'm playing sin right now and the gameplay is so ass i'm considering swapping to sub

[tame terrace]

sub's droughts are mostly waiting for cds

[craggy badger]

I don't know if i'm going to hate my life even more

[wind canopy]

You can also low roll and get like triple 1CP FoKs, so...

[tame terrace]

since u can blast as soon as u dance symbols

but ur just waiting to be able to do that

[flint umbra]

fr?

i think ass feels fun

the abilities have a satisfying feel to them

[craggy badger]

Sin always has been the spec i hate to play the most

[warm aspen]

sin...idk, just feels super weird

like why tf does it have ambuhs

[hazy breach]

The periods of no dance/symbols could definite be shorter than 30 seconds for sure

[warm aspen]

when it already has garrote

[hazy breach]

But i like the contrast of doing no damage outside cds

[warm aspen]

and like 74 different talent nodes buffing garrote from stealth

[flint umbra]

dispatch?

ambush you mean?

[warm aspen]

yeh mb

[flint umbra]

outlaw brainrot

lol

[warm aspen]

yup

[craggy badger]

Honestly i just love pressing buttons and outlaw is fun af to me

[warm aspen]

exactly

OL is so fun, but yeah target cap is rough

[flint umbra]

yeah outlaws great

wish it did more damage sometimes

[warm aspen]

and it's a little stressful tbh

[tame terrace]

i play all 3, theyre all fun now

[warm aspen]

dropping AR

[tame terrace]

sub was meh before this patch in keys

[warm aspen]

is such a terrifying concept

bro sub was straight ass b4 this patch

[flint umbra]

yeah it feels good now

[tame terrace]

i didnt mind sub in raid

[flint umbra]

not sure what fixed it

[warm aspen]

symbols did

[tame terrace]

cd alignment

symbols change

[warm aspen]

as well as just a lot more cp in general

[flint umbra]

youre right

cd alignment is making it feel so much cleaner

[tame terrace]

ye

the cd alignment is huge

[warm aspen]

supercharger, coup bugfix, more cp with symbols

but also we just straight up do 6% more damage lmao

[flint umbra]

cause 2 min SB essentually made flag 2 min as well

which is just shitty

[ornate berry]

Supercharger+Rotten means ripping fat SecTechs

[flint umbra]

cause you never flag without sb

[warm aspen]

death perception DOES buff our dmg

whereas dust didn't

dust was purely resets

[flint umbra]

yeah wtf!

why is cold blood good?

the rotton makes it kinda dumb am i crazy?

[warm aspen]

?????????/

[flint umbra]

what?

[warm aspen]

generate combo points

[flint umbra]

im blind

and dumb

rip

unfortunate

[warm aspen]

nah u got baited by the other guy

[flint umbra]

true

actually

[warm aspen]

rotten doesnt make sectech fat lol

[flint umbra]

you!

[ornate berry]

Rotten cause guaranteed 7CP off Shadowstrikes is why

Not that it buffs SecTech

Premed/Rotten makes Dance feel real good

pre-.5 you'd sometimes have to double Strike before you could finish in Dance

Felt very bad

[hazy breach]

It does not

Its just crit and damage nowadays

[warm aspen]

that's like legion legendary old lmao

or idk

some wayyyy old stuff

[ornate berry]

Does crit no longer double CP gains?

[wind canopy]

What patch were you thinking of? The one with seal fate for everyone?

[swift tinsel]

not afaik for sub

[ornate berry]

Wait that was part of Seal Fate? ...that explains a lot

I knew Storm CP crits was linked to that

[warm aspen]

LOL

nope

storm's for targets hit

crit has always been sin's territory my frined

[ornate berry]

Nah Seal Fate was a talent where CP would get doubled if you crit

It existed before the S2 rework in DFlight

[warm aspen]

[ornate berry]

AoE was just Storm>Black Powder alternating since Storm was like 7 CP instantly lol

[wind canopy]

Yeah, that was a Seal Fate thing. Not a sub thing.

[ornate berry]

Whelp, placebo effect

I feel like Ive rarely had double Strike sequences occur in Dances since patch

[steel horizon]

they took seal fate from us

even though it was sins originally, but still

[thorny kestrel]

Hello, so pins were saying that death stalker is only slightly better because of the dm bug? So we play trickster for single Target then

[warm aspen]

yes sir

trickster the goat

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/apt-blackpink-rose-apt-rose-mak-rose-rosé-gif-17440988294150416254

[idle aurora]

Yeah it might be cause I had no hero? It seems to be working a little better now that I got past 70

[flint oar]

Yes it's almost definitely that. Most APLs are written with hero talent checks for pretty much everything.

Since TWW, a lot of specs are extra fucked for levelling with the addon now.

[topaz raptor]

i'm CRANKIN on sub

this spec owns

i need a telephone

[spark tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/stable-ronaldo-pay-phone-hahahaha-lol-gif-20871661

[flint umbra]

yeah its so fun

especially after i swapped to a tea setup, does respectable damage with the small sec tech bursts without flag and sb too

nice to know you wont be doing tank damage in pulls without cds

[warm aspen]

ngl tho the one big thing i hate about tea build

extra keybind for tea xD

[flint umbra]

I put it into dance

And have it bound just in case I need it by itself

Tbh now that it auto procs when you’re low, you’ll rarely ever press it by itself

[warm aspen]

u dont tea for mastery on ST tho

...

[edgy zenith]

i had a ranged player tonight on ky'veza prog "hey, just dodge the lines"

dudes in the back doing the 2step

im fighting for my life

[tacit yacht]

Heya! I'm unsure about the usage of symbols / dance:

1. With Inevitability, symbols last longer than dance. During opener / flag, do I refresh dance first, then symbols and then I'll have naked symbols in the end for a bit?
2. Similar: There's a symbol charge and sectec is ready or will be ready, but no dance. Wait for dance or send it?

[narrow shadow]

Hi guys, does Crit suck for sub?

[tribal blade]

it's ok, better than haste but worse than vers+mast

[narrow shadow]

Thanks

It's a pain in the ass to play gear for the different rogue specs

I like them all tbh and was looking for any overlap to switch between with the gear

But it's hella tough with the stats each spec prefers

Sin and Outlaw love Crit but it's not that good for Sub

Sub and Outlaw love vers but it's super bad for sin

Sub and Sin love mastery but it sucks for Outlaw

Sin and Outlaw (to a certain point) like haste but it sucks for Sub

[tribal blade]

yeah that's always an issue trying to play 3 different specs

[narrow shadow]

I wish at least the dagger specs had more stat overlap

But oh well

[tribal blade]

the thing is you usually only need to swap out a few pieces to make up the stats to play the other specs to a tolerable level

you don't need super min maxed stats to play a spec to almost it's full potential

like swapping out rings and neck is a very easy way to reallocate your stat budget

[muted agate]

whats the tea build

wtf

[tribal blade]

i'm guessing you drop CB for tea

[muted agate]

oh

[crimson dagger]

other than maybe ulgrax is it just me or is assassination beating sub on almost every fight?

[jaunty umbra]

I beat assa idk bout you

[crimson dagger]

just feeling like if i want to be optimal ill need to continue regearing assass and put sub into storage for now i enjoy both specs so im struggling to find a reason to play sub

[tribal blade]

i see 1 sub rogue on the leaderboard for M+ playing that build

the last time i tried it out in DF you start wanting more crit with that build

since you don't have CB

[muted agate]

i hav ethe fuckin ansurek ring from weekly last week

so i might try i guess

[thorny kestrel]

tyvm

[narrow shadow]

True

[jaunty heath]

hey subs

are u guys sub little frail men

[wind canopy]

1. Yeah, you'll just have a naked symbols at the end
2. Just send. Sometimes, you won't have a dance and/SoD with your ST

[narrow shadow]

The problem is mainly the limited crests in 1 character

But I wanna get full BiS set for 2 specs at least before the end of season

[topaz raptor]

anyone got a first dance weakaura

[vale pine]

you can create a template in less than 20 secs

[topaz raptor]

you give me too much credit

[last ether]

teach a man to fish... and they won't ask for WeakAuras.

[tribal blade]

ok i just watched the rank 1 mists key

and enhance is illegal right now

1 phasing the 1st boss is just ludicrous

on a 17 mists

[vale pine]

tuning is a slot mashine currently

i haven't see this many outliners and classes kept op for a long time

i understand that it creates more positivity especially within the specs that are op

subtlety is in a better position than 11.0.2

so not that much to complain about

[tribal blade]

i ran a few sub keys today (only 10s) and it feels pretty nice!

i did a LOT of damage on the 2nd boss of CoT

[vale pine]

i think BP could need another buff

[tribal blade]

that felt so good as sub

[vale pine]

another 30% maybe?

[tribal blade]

HAHA

but then we have to play DS

[vale pine]

fair

secrt then

[tribal blade]

i feel like tuning for sub is really complicated now

[vale pine]

buff secret

[tribal blade]

at least for aoe

[tribal blade]

i agree, ST should get a buff

[vale pine]

would probably buff trickster more than ds

[tribal blade]

it's at least starting to actually do damage in keys now

[vale pine]

but tbh thats good because deathstalker gameplay is not good

[tribal blade]

it's way higher in overall

[tribal blade]

i also agree with that, i really dislike playing DS

[vale pine]

i think you would do more damage even without dust gone

supercharger is in general just very good for sub

[tribal blade]

the ability to sectec on it's cd is really good

what do you think about running tea vs CB

i might actually sim that right now

[soft summit]

Are we running first dance in mythic/ by chance? If so, what do we drop?

[tribal blade]

WM

[soft summit]

WM?

[tribal blade]

weaponmaster

[vale pine]

possible

[soft summit]

Ah

[tribal blade]

it's close to TFD

[vale pine]

tea isn't that far off

cb lost a bit of its strength in 11.0.5

[tribal blade]

i think the downside is we're early in the expac so getting enough crit to compensate isn't easy

[vale pine]

its more

you can get a big crit guaranteed on a flagellation empowered secret

so technically, at least for trickster

delaying your first cold blood cast for the 2nd secret is better

[tribal blade]

oh i see