subtlety

[shrewd lantern]

before expac launched

[vale lagoon]

just to make it so the ppl who want to play sub very badly can have an option beyond rerolling

[shrewd lantern]

because it has the most coherent talent tree

[vale lagoon]

again

what is the harm of a temporary aura buff

[shrewd lantern]

blizz doesnt care enough

[vale lagoon]

and there it is lol

[shrewd lantern]

about a 1% of the playerbase

[vale lagoon]

it's what

5 mins out of their day to code an aura buff

[shrewd lantern]

It doesnt make them money

[vale lagoon]

but yeah

sounds about right

[shrewd lantern]

to cater to .0001% of people

who dont want to press n

Like I bet of all keys ran

not even 10% are a 10 or higher

[vale lagoon]

yeah it sucks that ultimately not a lot of things in this world are about doing what's right

but about doing what makes money

[alpine wraith]

there is a sad continuum of that yea i wish more companies just made things right

also fuck i had the worst sleeo

sleep at 23 wake up at almost 3 am

[shrewd lantern]

you might as well ask specs like feral why they were largely ignored

doesnt help a sizeable amount of wow players think rogue is always op

[wanton bronze]

uhhh lets not backtrack here

but fighting game tournaments pay very little money unless youre on the main stage of EVO

[wind canopy]

More than WoW though 🙂

[wanton bronze]

a national competition might pay out $5k and it takes years of training and dedication to do that

and you will probably lose to someone just as skilled as you playing a more meta character

[wind canopy]

And still have local events

[vale lagoon]

bro we're not rly trying to be pro players in here right lol

counting on gaming to make a living is kinda

pepega

[wanton bronze]

i think its much more realistic to make money playing WoW casually than it is to make money playing Tekken or SF

you can farm and sell gold, trade items, sell accounts, boosts, etc

fighting games youre either a big streamer, a coach, or a pro player and youre still not making shit

[alpine wraith]

for fighting games there are lots of local tourneys

on wow well without infringing ToS you dont really have a lot to do

but tbh for wow just having fun is enough for me

not happening as much next patch but it is what it is

at least we have BIG CRITs

just always show me

[wanton bronze]

why cant you make them fix sub hach

community representative when

[alpine wraith]

people dont like self promotion so now we dont talk about those

[stone raptor]

https://careers.blizzard.com/global/en
alright gamers.

Surely one of us can get in

[alpine wraith]

wont change much i think best bet is to become a mayor MS shareholder for me

time to make millions and try to change wow

[stone raptor]

be the change you want to see in the world!
(make sub better)

[pliant topaz]

i will say, we finally did it! subs officially the lowest number of parses in normal, heroic, and.... drum roll... mythic

lets goooo

and m+

we are so back

[wind canopy]

[alpine wraith]

time to play the weirdest builds in +11 and `+10 because those are our keys

and confuse archon

[shrewd lantern]

its a weird timeline

when feral and sv have more players

[alpine wraith]

not really it has happened 2 times already

why not a third time

[shrewd lantern]

and dh kinda has

sub’s old niche

of short damage windows

every 40

[alpine wraith]

yea dh and arcane seem fun

they are better sub

[vestal escarp]

feral is cracked

the lost rogue spec

[shrewd lantern]

feral you’re stuck looking at a ghost cat

for how many hours

[tidal oyster]

https://wago.io/5FWtjYFgC anyone know why this WA wont work on players?

[nimble burrow]

Can't wait for the next week

Was wondering about how should we arrange Symbol

[half comet]

thats both of the alts I got

its true

[spring torrent]

does anyone know if I can use the Authority of the Depths enchant on both daggers? or does it not stack?

[pliant topaz]

it stacks

[spring torrent]

ty!!

[alpine wraith]

if you just enchanted it can bug out like the linens

so unequip both then equip again

[misty jacinth]

Can someone smarter than me give me a 2 sentence tl;dr as to why people are playing sub on mythic ansurek?

[alpine wraith]

damage better defensively

[sinful sluice]

more and more i get used to shadow cloak it seems so overpowered

i feel like this spell is immune to 90% of dmg and CCs

[wanton bronze]

cloak of shadows?

[bronze hatch]

so r we reduicing cloak cd bc it's not going to functionally be 1.5 min anymore or

just eating that

[pliant topaz]

huge huge gratz @split isle

[split isle]

ty ty

[rough sigil]

How do I play DS in m+ it is apparently the better choice, but can't figure it out.

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

hey i'm helping add to that statistic, i'm part of the problem now

[vale lagoon]

about to get worse kekw

thinking about rring outlaw so thats what

1 out of the 12 players of the spec gone

almost 10% of the playerbase!

[ebon tiger]

only 4 sub players and I still can't crack 90 in mythic raids

competing against actual ninjas dedicated to the spec

[tepid trellis]

?

[vale lagoon]

can u stealth into blizzard office some time this weekend

raccoons are sneaky right

pls fking help us man

im losing the will to log in like what

5 weeks into a tier?

[pliant topaz]

okay doing NW with a ret and an uhdk is the worst thing ive experienced in keys this expac

13 NW bro has divine storming on nerzudah

uhdk is spamming epidemic i cant

[nimble burrow]

maybe let pally heal the uhdks pet

[pliant topaz]

3 weeks ago when i still played sub in keys, i did a 11 or 12 NW and had a ret divine storming stitchflessh

these are surely human being players

[delicate ridge]

man the warden set legs are so cooked in SD

[vale lagoon]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ornate heron]

Does void reapers contract outperform spyglass in m+?

[flint umbra]

are you guys liking trickster or DS more rn

[vale lagoon]

we like rerolling to another spec more

3 guesses as to why im in the OL channel with a blue name

lol

[flint umbra]

lmaooo

i was just trying it again and against the 5 target dummies DS did so much more

and felt better

hopefully nimble flurry is fixed

[vale lagoon]

apparently dummies are all sorts of bugged

[flint umbra]

to inflate or deflate damage?

[vale lagoon]

deflate

and for both trees

[flint umbra]

wow

was doing 1.9 mil

which was pretty competative to the other specs

assa was higher obviously

this is the build i was running

this is great for helping the ass damage outside of cds

im sure DS has a much better out of cd damage profile

[vale lagoon]

shit is bugged

to not work with sectech

xD

[flint umbra]

BRUH

thats like our big nuke that can be used out of our burst window

bruhhhh

[vale lagoon]

also

shadow blades is bugged to not work with flurry

[flint umbra]

i knew that

terrible

[vale lagoon]

darknest night is bugged to not work with shadowed finishers

follow the blood too

[flint umbra]

jesus

[vale lagoon]

the one that's technically better, and also just got buffed?

yeha

[flint umbra]

your name is accurately

[vale lagoon]

also, u can't consume DS marks

if u have darkest night from a previous mob

so instead of opening like someone who doesn't have cancer

[flint umbra]

blizzard

[vale lagoon]

you have to evisc and then rupture

[flint umbra]

are they fixing bugs on tuesday?

[vale lagoon]

OR you have to just waste mark dmg

[flint umbra]

cause i mean theyre killing our damage

[vale lagoon]

they're fixing ONE bug

[flint umbra]

and that is

?

[vale lagoon]

the one where coup's bonus cp isn't reducing more cds

xDDDDD

[flint umbra]

omg

[vale lagoon]

OH also

singular focus is a great node for sin

for us it doesn't redirect sectech dmg so it's like 2% of ur dmg on a big aoe pull xD

[flint umbra]

omg

yeah

what is going on

how are there this many bugs crippling this subclass

nobody talks about sub

its annoying

is it still decent to play in content?

[vale lagoon]

HA

@flint umbra used this image a lot today because it is from today

just me and my ret bro farming some 10s and chatting

i was outdamaging him in overalls 2 weeks ago

[flint umbra]

i mean thats not bad damage overall

[vale lagoon]

this guy JUST started the game

this prepatch

[flint umbra]

to be fair ret is very strong

and easy

[vale lagoon]

i had to teach him about stat weight existing and how to target high main stat pieces for upgrades

and how important mainhand damage is

and that damage is fucking horrible by the way

sin rogues were pulling my dps

10+ ilvls ago

im fking 625 ilvl man, the only thing im missing from bis is transmitter

[flint umbra]

ohhhhh

😦

are you having fun at least?

playstyle seems very fun

[vale lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/suicide-kms-gif-4481206

i think playstyle will be nicer in keys only

next reset

but this is a spec u can only play if u turn off details

[flint umbra]

cause it will always be low?

[vale lagoon]

fun fact: every key i run

[shrewd lantern]

he could prob do more as sin

never pressing deathmark on trash

[flint umbra]

im afraid im going to be a detriment if im gonna do low damage

[shrewd lantern]

or kb

[vale lagoon]

i tend to count the number of pulls where I do less damage as my tank RL

[flint umbra]

damn man, i love the playstyle

[vale lagoon]

:))))

[flint umbra]

the changes on reset arent gonna help?

[vale lagoon]

nope

[shrewd lantern]

makes it worse prob

[vale lagoon]

in keys not rly right

[flint umbra]

are the bugs the thing keeping us down

or the multipliers

[vale lagoon]

both

basically

imagining having both cancer and alzheimers

that's sub right now

[flint umbra]

imo with the whole design of big nuke combo point spenders

[vale lagoon]

i think in keys it gets a little better?

just cuz flag feels uable on its 1:30 cd again lol

[flint umbra]

there should be 0 universe where eviscerate doesnt do more than any other ST spender on other rogue specs

it should be NUKING

[shrewd lantern]

i mean flag was basically 1:30

with dust

[flint umbra]

feels like a love tap rn

[vale lagoon]

but playing dust feels SO ass

like i prolly gotta go to 12 to feel it

[flint umbra]

can you bind SB into flag after reset?

[vale lagoon]

NOPE

[shrewd lantern]

you flag prior

[flint umbra]

i thought sb was off the gcd

[vale lagoon]

bcuz you wanna use SB like super late, after 1st sectech late

[shrewd lantern]

so you losing a global

doing that

[flint umbra]

ahhh i see

used in the same window

not at the same time

i get it

[vale lagoon]

but yeah i was doing a +10 Siege earlier just to wrap up vaults

mobs were dying so fast i can't get the 3rd sectech out with dust build lmao

even the big horse rider ones

[shrewd lantern]

yeah thats the thing

sin also gets better higher

[vale lagoon]

YUP

[shrewd lantern]

since kbs run their full course

[flint umbra]

anything i should change? gloomblade sounds so nice for dark brew

but idk

[vale lagoon]

and yeah in 12s im running out of juice bcuz the mobs are tankier

so what, sub is a 11 only spec? kekw

[shrewd lantern]

idk gloomblade is stupid

sub doesnt need sustained damage

it needs to truck during cds

[flint umbra]

well tbh it would be nice if it has decent damage outside of them too

[shrewd lantern]

disagree

[flint umbra]

the more cd dependent the more good tank dependent

[vale lagoon]

i just wish sub can actually play around dance again

[flint umbra]

and good tanks arent common

[vale lagoon]

now we're bending over backwards for what

fucking symbols?

[sweet summit]

full doomer on sub now tbh

[vale lagoon]

that shit was a SnD repalcement back when it first came out lmao

[shrewd lantern]

thats a player issue

not a spec

[flint umbra]

theres more issues

like some pulls you want to hold cds

[shrewd lantern]

its literally an issue with bad tanks

[flint umbra]

but if you were to do that now

you would do shit ass damage

[vale lagoon]

nah an actual strong cd class is gonna have even pug tanks kissing their ass

[shrewd lantern]

yep

look at fire mage

in bfa

lmfaoooo

[vale lagoon]

yeah was just gonna say lol

bfa fire mage

[shrewd lantern]

and tbh

[vale lagoon]

i remember being their servant playing an actual fun iteration of sin back then

[shrewd lantern]

1min cd is

extremely short

in the grand scheme of things

[vale lagoon]

and extremely nice

[shrewd lantern]

yes

[vale lagoon]

in keys

like GOSH

imagine a static 1 minute dance

but during that we have the dmg of blades + full stacked flag baked in

and then when we leave it we set up bleeds

[shrewd lantern]

i like bursty specs

you dont feel bad about downtime

when they arent up

[vale lagoon]

i think having bleeds

really complements burst specs

[shrewd lantern]

thats basically wod sub

except

wod sub had 0 aoe

[vale lagoon]

and maintenance buffs too

i mean

idk

it CANT be that hard to just go back to WoD sub

except keep BP or something

for aoe

[shrewd lantern]

i hate bp personally

miss when dance just buffed storm

and dfa

[vale lagoon]

i mean it's an easy solution to aoe tho

and dfa itself was never enough for aoe

it was the legendary cloak

mostly the cloak tbh

[shrewd lantern]

cloak and glaives

if you wanted nuclear bomb aoe

on packs

[vale lagoon]

glaives?

i thought it was cloak shoulder

[shrewd lantern]

umbral moonglaives

[vale lagoon]

OH trinket

[shrewd lantern]

the trinket

[vale lagoon]

nvmnd lol

[shrewd lantern]

your sustained cleave was mid tier

with shoulder vigor ring

tbh

[vale lagoon]

eh

[shrewd lantern]

it was like a middle ground

[vale lagoon]

who needs sustain when u can just shoulder + cloak and actually evaporate a pack

OH

[shrewd lantern]

between playing rotten gloves

and cloak

[vale lagoon]

i remember shoulder + cape rogues

fucking things up in front of karazhan

lmao

[shrewd lantern]

i mean

i used to gank people off their flying mounts

with dfa

rotten gave you enough cp to instantly full pt dfa after a shadowstrike

[vale lagoon]

lol i remember in emerald nightmare/nighthold patches

i just use shadowstrike to literally stay in the air and stick to flying ppl

would run out of energy eventually

[shrewd lantern]

the fun thing in EN patch

[vale lagoon]

but still

[shrewd lantern]

was do the ram wpvp quest in stormheim

and just stay stealthed and ram knock people off the cliff

your goat wouldnt unstealth until after due to subterfuge

[vale lagoon]

HUH

[shrewd lantern]

yeah you didnt actually leave stealth

until you took the action

[vale lagoon]

that's new lmao

[shrewd lantern]

same with using net o matic on people

[vale lagoon]

legion was certainly

[shrewd lantern]

with subterfuge

[vale lagoon]

one of the experiences of all time

[shrewd lantern]

if you had subter talented they wouldnt see you aiming the net at them

until it actually went off

[vale lagoon]

but god i fucking miss dragonflight even more

like we have a devoker bursting

in our group

and then i cleaned up the packs when he was on cd

bcuz sub had burst every 25 seconds

[shrewd lantern]

legion was funnier

i used to wipe groups at world bosses with mantle and cloak

[vale lagoon]

yup

world boss

[shrewd lantern]

or kidney the tank

[vale lagoon]

karazhan entrance

[shrewd lantern]

and aim a frontal at the raid

[vale lagoon]

literal fking terrorist behavior

mass shooter vibes lmfao

[shrewd lantern]

no i did that on argus

by the teleporter pads

on reset

[vale lagoon]

yeah same logic right lol

just

[shrewd lantern]

yeah

higher traffic

[vale lagoon]

the most crowded place poissble and rip a big one

xD

[shrewd lantern]

the goat wq in stormheim was more troll

in EN patch

since we had no flying

so you had to flightmaster whistle

or hoof it

[vale lagoon]

nothing is more troll than prepatch tho lmao

hfc trinket + infinite teleport shadowstrike

or was it just the shadowstrike and janky prepatch tuning?

that was me getting into the game for the first time, legit shat on a multi-glad friend in duels

just cuz tuning so whack

[shrewd lantern]

most likely the prepatch

[vale lagoon]

man when can we be viable again tho

im mentally preparing to swap specs but the more i think about it the more i wanna unsub lol

[south seal]

!sims

[wicked jolt]

Simulations:
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[wind canopy]

Why you popping up in my twitch

[plush roost]

! fuu

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[ornate heron]

is it worth it on sub to track clear the witness an use it?

if so, when do we use it?

[pliant topaz]

outside of dance/sod

[ornate heron]

so you ddo track it and use it. got it.

thank you @pliant topaz

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale lagoon]

so just for fun

bcuz no serious tc is gonna save our ass

[tepid trellis]

i am everywhere

[vale lagoon]

what's a realistic timeframe for actual fixes to our spec lol

next expac?

[vale pine]

wdym?

[vale lagoon]

i mean i dont think even insanely knowledgeable ppl like u are gonna bring us out of the bottom 10% in keys lol

so just forfun convos

when do u think we get reworked

based on previous expacs and the stuff other classes got this expac and playerbase numbers

[vale pine]

i can try

😛

[vale lagoon]

and max respects for that always

but at this point i just want some fun hopium convos lol

[keen dome]

Always be hopin'

[vale lagoon]

11.1 full rework!

back to WoD 1 minute class

only cd is dance!

[ornate heron]

is deathstalker or trickster better for m+

[keen dome]

[vale lagoon]

deathstalker, bcuz u can play sin as DS

[keen dome]

With Poison togle

[ornate heron]

but actually though?

is it deathstalker with 2 min build?

[vale lagoon]

bro it's the difference between 1.5 mil overall and 1.45 mil

when normal dps specs are pulling 1.7~1.9

[ornate heron]

thanks bug ❤️

[vale lagoon]

actually scratch that, it's more like other specs pulling 1.9~2 mil

[vale lagoon]

maybe bring back shadow reflection instead of the fking sectech shit lol

use the same tech they use for death mark

if we steal the codes from a spec they actually care about, surely we dont end up with 12 different bugs agian

[keen dome]

Sub will find a way

[vale pine]

we had a fun hopiung discussion yestereday

how waving shadowstrike on 2 targets is a slight damage win

on trickster

[vale lagoon]

wait isnt that just normal theorycrafting lol

or were we expecting them to rebuild our spec around that

[vale pine]

yes

finding out how to play optimal

is normal theorycrafting

[vale lagoon]

yeh im talking

wishlist lmao

[keen dome]

I wish they'd find out where the shadow clones have gone on holiday and ask them to come back

[vale lagoon]

the clones are invis right next to us, just super sneak

that's why they are immune to all of our buffs

they dodge them all

[keen dome]

stink lines

[vale pine]

i want a billion € and the visuals from princess for subtlety

[keen dome]

same

Poison toggle + Put the contract visual on SecTec.

That's my current wishlist because I don't really know how to fix the spec because I'm not as smart as our lovely theorycrafters.

[vale lagoon]

would u be mad if they made us play dfa again lol

but instead of jumping up u just charge forward like that big dash dh has

with the princess visuals ofc

[keen dome]

Speaking of the stuff DH has: I wonder if they'll ever fix KS by making it just be DH's blade dash thing

It's right there!

[vale lagoon]

does dh not have like

evasion on their blade dance

or am i being a boomer

[hazy breach]

They do not have that anymore no

[vale lagoon]

rip

but what does their big dash thing even do lol

it's like

blue visuals

night fae covenant stuff?

[keen dome]

Yeah

it's a charge

[vale lagoon]

yeh is it like a buff

[keen dome]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=323639/the-hunt

[vale lagoon]

or is it just dmg on its own

oh so just straight up big nuke

[keen dome]

I have no idea if that's the current one or not, I just lazily googled it

[vale lagoon]

lul no way to know

usually wowhead comments are helpful, that one is just full of year-old pvp related bitching

[uneven fern]

the hunt hasn’t changed at all yea

same spell

[tribal blade]

they did have an absorb shield that was active during the actual blade dance animation during DF, but i'm not sure if that's still in their talent tree

i remember during S3 dhs would have to time their blade dances to live 1 shot mechanics

[vale lagoon]

right bcuz they need more sustain and tankiness

love it

but nerf leeching poison more guys

[tribal blade]

i think dhs were actually considered a bit squishy during that season

because besides their passive dr and 1 defensive they didn't have much else

well i guess nether immunity and that absorb

[vale lagoon]

isn't their tankiness more about instantly healing to full from anything that didn't outright 1shot them?

[keen dome]

My experience of most DH's is they're very squishy terrorists.

But I think that's just the volume of people who play them.

[tribal blade]

yeah dh seems to be a very hit or miss

the insane mobility becomes a seriously incredible asset on a good player

and on a bad player it's actual terrorism

[keen dome]

Yep

I know some incredibly good DH's and a lot of very bad DH's.

The incredible ones are just a joy to play around.

Both the best tank players Iknow are DH's which is funny

[vale lagoon]

you guys know tanks?

[keen dome]

Yeah it's how I get portals done as Sub

[vale lagoon]

i just have one 3k guy who's technically on my friends list from df s1 shenanigans and my RL lol

i timed all my keys with my RL but the downside is i have to attend his heroic andy daycare raid

[keen dome]

I'm lucky to know two extremely good 0.1% tank players who will sometimes carry my idiot ass into 10's or higher (I got a 24 timed in DF 'cos of one of them helping me get a group haha)

[vale lagoon]

24 is free depending on the dungeon lol

lemme check someothing

fucking sbg

[keen dome]

It was the first half of the megadungeon, so pretty free.

[vale lagoon]

OH

nvmnd

[keen dome]

Was it a 24 or a 23..

[vale lagoon]

24 fort week

23 tyran

we bricked a 25 tho, was a feelsbad moment

[keen dome]

Yeah 24

[vale lagoon]

OH GOD

[keen dome]

Actually really proud of how well I did that season

[vale lagoon]

they brought back waycrest

[ornate current]

Unironically those visuals would fit, imagine the purple massacre lines as an aoe ability for sub instead of lame powder

[vale lagoon]

and i missed it

fuck me

[keen dome]

it was really nice

Blackrook was so free though

[vale lagoon]

im actually gonna BtE myself

irl

[keen dome]

DF S3 was pretty good!

I got my first ever 3k

[vale lagoon]

lul i heard it was a fairly chill season

but was sub good back then

[keen dome]

It was fine. I did it all as Sub

We weren't the best in keys but it was still pretty damn solid

[vale lagoon]

not like rn huh

[keen dome]

ye

Like I wasn't trolling playing it in the 24's

[vale lagoon]

worst part is

[keen dome]

I did 2.5k as Sub every DF season (And in S3, did 3k) which was nice.

[tribal blade]

i did really well that season

[vale lagoon]

we'll still be trolling after next week's patch

[keen dome]

Hell yeah Prophet, big gaming

[vale lagoon]

depressing

[tribal blade]

i was most proud of the 29 rise

[keen dome]

Yeah that's really good

[tribal blade]

me and my buddy got incredibly lucky, we had squishvegan queue into our key

[alpine wraith]

black rook 30 tyr

[keen dome]

I think my goal this season is just +10 portals and 2.5k but it'll be as Ass 'cos it's the only way to not feel bad.

[tribal blade]

and that guy got us 28 BRH and 29 rise timed

[alpine wraith]

what were you smokin

[tribal blade]

haha i think tyran BRH was actually easier than fort

because the shit in BRH was crazy during fort

[keen dome]

Yeah

[tribal blade]

getting 1 shot by archers

1 shot by all the trash

[vale lagoon]

too bad both are here to stay now kekw

[tribal blade]

also tanks living the pulls was scary

[keen dome]

Tyrannical still sucks.

[tribal blade]

it's a good thing i think

[keen dome]

I wish they'd find a better solution than these two modifers, but it is a good improvement over the past

[tribal blade]

when you step into a 12 or higher now there's 0 surprises

the dungeon is exactly the same every time

[vale lagoon]

idk, i feel like less stats and more mechanics is nice

[keen dome]

Yeah, that's a good change honestly

[vale lagoon]

they just have to design mechanics that aren't actual cancer

[keen dome]

Not the kind of content i'll do but the static nature seems really good and helpful for pushing?

[tribal blade]

this season isn't very 1 shotty

[vale lagoon]

like i remember doing tol dagor back during bfa

[tribal blade]

or at least i haven't gotten to the key level where bosses are 1 shotting yet

[vale lagoon]

like holy shit quaking during that worgen boss

is so fucking cringe

[alpine wraith]

its most mobs in packs that hit really hard

[tribal blade]

it seems like usually on most bosses this season you get hit by a dot

or taking ticking damage

[keen dome]

Quaking during the uh, Nokhud boss lmao

Which they had to fix twice I think

[vale lagoon]

yeah

[tribal blade]

i don't miss any of the old affixes

at all

[vale lagoon]

sanguine is fine tbh

volcanic

bursting too

[keen dome]

I miss spiteful because I could use them as padding fuel but yeah agreed, all the new ones are more fun (if not ideal)

[tribal blade]

sanguine so bad 😦

[vale lagoon]

sanguine sucks for some cases

[alpine wraith]

necrotic was worse

[vale lagoon]

but not NEARLY as bad

as explosive

holy fuck

[tribal blade]

oh my god i remember that haha

[alpine wraith]

and people dont remember overflowing and the other super cursed ones

[keen dome]

lmao, explosive

what a cursed affix

[tribal blade]

tanks playing on the edge with necrotic

[alpine wraith]

oh sorry im a pala my shock crit

have a 30m heal absorb

tehee

bdk insta dies

[tribal blade]

what was the affix where threat was lower

[alpine wraith]

skittish

[tribal blade]

yeah

[keen dome]

lmao

[vale lagoon]

oh yeah skittish

[alpine wraith]

namely warrior are forbiden week

[keen dome]

what an insane affix design that was

[tribal blade]

when you actually got invites because it was skittish week

and they wanted tricks

[vale lagoon]

man u know what tho

i feel like no matter how bad the keys themselves are, if the specs are good, the season will be fun

[keen dome]

I don't like the current orb affix a whole lot because it feels pretty annoying on some bosses, but the new ones are relatively fine.

[tribal blade]

i'm really enjoying the fact that this season the dungeons are exactly the same every time on 12+

really, really enjoying it

[vale lagoon]

like df season 1 i never complained about a single dungeon even when ruby and azure were giving me hemorrhoids and cancer at the same time

[tribal blade]

the only thing i hate is challenger's burden

[vale lagoon]

bcuz sub was strong

[tribal blade]

that thing is so toxic

[alpine wraith]

yea it is a bit sad

many keys have been depleted due to that

like 1 pull where even 2 people die

[keen dome]

I don't like Challenger's Peril either. It creates stupid thoughts for some people.

[alpine wraith]

is already like 1 lost

[tribal blade]

i failed a 12 NW today and halfway through the tank said in disc "5 deaths, key's over"

[vale lagoon]

but now im barely starting the tier, NW is piss easy now and SV/CoT are playable too, and I still feel like unsubbing

[keen dome]

I was doing a +8 CoT. Someone died on the first boss and another went "Well we can't time this now" and left.

Like wtf are you on my guy

[vale lagoon]

pugs in +8s

are pretty interesting specimen

[keen dome]

Ye

[alpine wraith]

i did a cot with like 21 deaths

timer is so easy

[keen dome]

I did a Dawnbreaker +8 where the tank linked a route before we started

[vale lagoon]

but again, i SWEAR, if they just let our spec be playable the season is fun

[keen dome]

and then proceeded to not follow the route at all

Which is impressive since it's dawnbreaker

[vale lagoon]

LOL

[vestal escarp]

All this as sub

[vale lagoon]

funny thing is i have a +12 DB rn that i probably could time

but i dont wanna try

i just look at the key, imagine my overall dps

[keen dome]

I have a CoT+9 I should time to a 10 and do for the weekly but urgh effort. I just wanna run dawnbreaker because it's easy brain

[vale lagoon]

and i just feel like turning off my pc

[alpine wraith]

i have had a few 13 and 12 keys from myself

from +2 10 and 11

every single one krangled

always my fault clearly

[vale lagoon]

lol

ur fault exactly

if u played sin

u'd +2 those keys too!

[alpine wraith]

true

[keen dome]

Playing Assa def makes me enjoy the content a lot less. Just doing the bare minimum atm.

[vale lagoon]

i think OL could be fun for me

except i have SO much stats to fix

holy

[keen dome]

ye

[vale lagoon]

i think the plan is to open vault as OL loot spec

[keen dome]

Been thinking of doing that too, yeah.

[vale lagoon]

if i get a 639 mainhand i just bite the bullet and swap

[vestal escarp]

That would change just the weapon you see

[vale lagoon]

if not i keep going sub until i eventually BtE myself irl

[keen dome]

I wish I played Sub to a level that was competitive with the damage I do as Assa. Being medicore at both means I just do way more as Assa haha

[vale lagoon]

does competitive sub somehow catch up to sin?

in dmg?

[alpine wraith]

nope

[vale lagoon]

kekw

[alpine wraith]

unless you super high roll and the other lowrolls

[keen dome]

Nah, my point is: I'm mid at both. but if i was really good at Sub I'd probably be doing the same damage I do as Assa. Because I'm not very good at Assa.

but I still do WAY more damage as Assa than I do as Sub

[vale lagoon]

ooooooh

but then like

[keen dome]

And then conversely I'd be doing way more as Assa yes

[vale lagoon]

just get good at sin no

[keen dome]

But I wanna play Sub 😦

[vale lagoon]

and then you'll be clearing like top 50 keys world

ngl tho

the focus on symbols and flag and blades

basically everything that ISN'T dance

kinda makes me not wanna play sub

[keen dome]

Ye

Having played a lot of Assa, it feels hilariously awkward doing Delves as Sub sometimes.

Just sitting around waiting to be allowed to do damage again whereas Assa can do a whole lot more constantly due to bleeds and stuff.

[vale lagoon]

yup

to make it super numerical and precise

ret's 45 sec burst is the same/better than our 2 minute burst kek

[keen dome]

Just build the spec more around dancing and power and feeding into it (Put blades combie gen into danceeeeeee)

[vale lagoon]

oh shit that's actually a great idea!

[keen dome]

It was Fuu's idea iirc and it's fantastic

You'd really pack a whole lot of power into Dance and make it feed into itself

An idea I had, that I think could be interesting and thematic, is that every Dance gives you a Shadow Charge. And when you get enough, you can activate a super variant of dance that is huge burst. So you can stock 'em up and use 'em as needed to do big prio or something damage in this megamode (like SPriest Insanity, basically)

Retain the cool flexibility that dust gave us but in a more interesting and controlled manner that isn't tied to CDR

[vale lagoon]

ehhh

nothing makes you more flexible

than being on a 45 sec/1 min cd

statically

and having decent numbers during those times

[keen dome]

Yeah, true. But I think it'd be a bit more flexible than what we have now, right?

[vale lagoon]

idk

sounds like it would be a huge dps loss to not spend the super dance right away lol

[keen dome]

Probably, yeah.

[vale lagoon]

which ruins the flexibility

[keen dome]

Truth, truth.

Maybe shadow-charging combo points haha

[vale lagoon]

oh i just thought of something REALLY degen

imagine if we just had a cd that removed our CP cap

for like

the duration of a dance

and we just spammed 15 SS's back to back, before unloading a single sectech on the last gcd

[keen dome]

So you'd effectively spend dance just building a MASSIVE finisher for the final GCD?

lmao

I'm fully onboard with the BIG SECTEC

You could do something like: During dance every finisher (builder?) gives you a Shadowy Combie which can go above. And then your final finisher GCD in dance consumes them and adds them above the limit.

[vale lagoon]

or just lock it to only sectech can consume those cps lol

[keen dome]

Yeah

No clue how that'd help fix the spec but it'd be funny to see mega SecTec

[vale lagoon]

and yeah ur idea is better bcuz we run out of energy if we never finish and just keep striking lol

[keen dome]

I like the idea of there being something during Dance that fuels something else - so you optimize during it and then get rewarded. Danse Macabre is cool but we don't really play around it.

The idea of something that then gives you a mega SecTec is cool because SecTec owns and I'm a big fan of stuff working on it.

[vale lagoon]

yeah pretty sure we'd all want 1 big sectech

over 3 meh ones

[keen dome]

Very very curious to see what they come up with for 11.1 as I'm gonna be absolutely amazed if we don't get something reworkish for it

[alpine wraith]

chances are low

but even then if they fix most bugs we should be fine

they are heavy on dps loses

[keen dome]

Absolutely

But I still think 11.1 will be something

Could just be another SoD charge

[vale lagoon]

yeah ngl this company has shown time and again that they're more than happy to let unpopular specs just rot on the side of the road

[alpine wraith]

keep in mind 3 to 4% win is like almost 30k+ dps

[keen dome]

Ye

[alpine wraith]

depending on gear

what i want to check is if mastery got a bit more ground

from supercharger

[keen dome]

Sure, but at the same time: Supercharger is super fucking cool

[vale lagoon]

30k dps for each bug?

[keen dome]

Absolutely amazing design imo

[alpine wraith]

but fuu will already do combinations anyway

[vale lagoon]

or 30k is what we get

from next week

[alpine wraith]

no just the extra from next week

[vale lagoon]

lol

we're 300k behind

[alpine wraith]

i get more than 30k but that is because i already sim close to 1.3

[keen dome]

270k now!

[alpine wraith]

yea basically just crit all mandates

smh

[keen dome]

I'd have to crit getting it in vault first

[alpine wraith]

get lots of gold and pay vip rungs

[keen dome]

But then I wouldn't have lots of gold

I did buy a myth BoE the other day someone mis-listed though, thatw as nice.

[alpine wraith]

tbh i had to rng get my trasnmitter from normal pugs

that one was a dicer

[keen dome]

Still yet to see one of those drop

[alpine wraith]

i almost sniped a 400k leech shoulders

[keen dome]

I need to start leading HAnusrek kills but I've just not had the effort

[alpine wraith]

but it was not on my server so while my char ran tot he ah it was gone

[keen dome]

alas

[vale lagoon]

idk tho

i feel like dance playing second fiddle to so many things is kinda icky

obviously fix our dmg first

but beyond that

[slate nest]

give us like a 40% dmg buff total

And the class is at least playable

Other than that

We lost shadowdust

so we lost a big talent

Makes us even worse

[vale lagoon]

YUP 40% AURA BUFF WHEN

who's the dev in here again

can we get our man in here to lock the change in

[alpine wraith]

nah we are not assa or fire so best they can do is maybe fix the bugs

[slate nest]

not good enough sadly, even without the bugs we would be miles away from assass

[slate nest]

not what I meant

I meant make our spells DO damage, not just be nothing for the whole time

[ornate current]

The old dev that was here aint on rogue anymore dont think the new guy is here

[vale lagoon]

rip, no wonder we got tossed aside like trash again

[keen dome]

I don't think anything can be placed on a singular person, nor should it. The dev team are doing the best they can.

[alpine wraith]

well final 2 dungeons done for the week

say goodbye to trickster sepsis and ER

rest in piss

[wispy pebble]

so we only run DS next patch?

[slate nest]

we run sin

[alpine wraith]

yea we only run deathstalker in most content

last fringe place is court

but i would need people to try it after patch

[wispy pebble]

Well atleast no perma swap on reclear

[alpine wraith]

seems quite horrible as trickster you miss 3 amps

if on Mythic

i also will miss doing so good on mists 1st boss

popping cds on pull and then on his vuln phase

[fallow nimbus]

Queensbane the amp

[keen dome]

Every now and then I see a Sub rogue in the LFG tool and go "Damn, powerful"

[alpine wraith]

solution to sub? just play with worse players

[keen dome]

[alpine wraith]

im so good

[slate nest]

And never time a key xd

[alpine wraith]

that was a 11

[slate nest]

DAM

[alpine wraith]

but still

no 12s in sight

wonder why

[slate nest]

How did you outdps a frostdk?

[keen dome]

Maybe the frostDK was bad

[slate nest]

You play DS Hacha?

[alpine wraith]

no i play trickster

[slate nest]

Damn

Back to trickster then

Way more fun then sin rog xd

[alpine wraith]

but with reverb

[slate nest]

For low keys nobody cares I think

[alpine wraith]

sadly this one dies in 2 days

[keen dome]

I was about to ask for a damage breakdown haha

Not bad

[slate nest]

can you send how you play it?

[alpine wraith]

i didnt snipe as many mandates as i should

[slate nest]

like talents?

[alpine wraith]

i did think about making a guide but when i saw 10.0.5 was deleting ER i was like cba

[keen dome]

ye

[slate nest]

I mean it's reworking it

Into hopefully a better one

[alpine wraith]

yea supercharger is better in all fronts

[keen dome]

I'm just trying to get weekly 10's done but the competition is fierce since I've fallen so far behind.

[alpine wraith]

yea im a bit overqualified to do 10s and 11 but 12 is big boi territory

[slate nest]

what do you give up for ER? tea?

[alpine wraith]

not even with 630 ilvl you get invited

[keen dome]

ye

[keen dome]

I'm 622 but still sub-2k IO so I know why I'm not getting invited.

[alpine wraith]

yea that one will be a struggle

but at least doing 8s you can craft 636

im at the point where i spend my crests upgrading M gear

instead of crafting

for at least 3-4 weeks more

[keen dome]

ye I'm doing the same after reset

Should hit 625+

Just not wanting to spend them this close to reset incase my eventual Myth slot item is in a place I took something to 623

[alpine wraith]

after i finish upgrading my legs i will buy boe shoulders

then next week ring

[keen dome]

Nice

[alpine wraith]

then finally i can say hello to my engi helmet

[keen dome]

Hell yeah

[slate nest]

I'm way worse currently xd

not even one good trinket

[alpine wraith]

i do recommend doing the 8 delves

every week tho

there are some good trinks there

[keen dome]

Yeah, absolutely

[slate nest]

okay but quick question mr Hacha, how do you use ER in ur build?

Like when to use it?

[alpine wraith]

nothing crazy you just use it with rotten

then second use is on the third dance with the second SoD

[slate nest]

Ight ty

[alpine wraith]

it will do less dmg than normal cb build on average tho but it is funny

think you can watch the yt stream it has buffer

just did two random mists 10

[slate nest]

so the other trickster build is still better?

for dps purposes?

[abstract skiff]

what realz is gone from rogue?

D:

[fallow nimbus]

We don't know

But it feels sub was abandoned

[slate nest]

sub was killed

once again

[woeful egret]

So, is it as doom and gloom as everyone is saying?

[fallow nimbus]

All good changes are in general tree and just a sideeffect

Sub tree changes are removal and ? with the 3 sod charges

[slate nest]

and the first dance change

but

idk if it will be used

[fallow nimbus]

That is triple ???

[abstract skiff]

it sounds like a world quest talent? :D

[slate nest]

exactly xd

wait 6 seconds to get 4 seconds on dance

eh

I should just tell my tank to wait 6 seconds for me to have still bad dps xd

[fallow nimbus]

I mean why not add the df s2 sod set boni but this time using normal sod adds full duration?

[woeful egret]

what if they just made perma dance uptime possible again?

[abstract skiff]

NO

[woeful egret]

then again, they should just make it passive at that point lol

[slate nest]

remove dance

make shadowstrike our main filler

[alpine wraith]

new first dance is quite good for dungeons

but also our st talents kinda suck

[woeful egret]

dance is iconic for the spec

[alpine wraith]

it is only like 0,x% behind on st

by getting ONE proc in 5 mins

that is how bad the others are

[fallow nimbus]

It's perfect for dawnbreaker

[alpine wraith]

and cot

and mists

and gb

[woeful egret]

your tanks let you get out of combat for 6 seconds?

[alpine wraith]

i actually think in all dungeons you get quite a bit of value

[slate nest]

Nobody is joining key after I posted as sub xd

As sin I got a lot of people

with sub

[alpine wraith]

ahaha

[slate nest]

legit I have one shammy xd

[woeful egret]

I got declined from +4s all morning as sin with ksm. I just want to farm crests 😦

[lilac stag]

Run your key

[woeful egret]

my key requires my friends

[slate nest]

hard if nobody joins

[alpine wraith]

actually run your key is a fun one

think i listed a 13

[lilac stag]

I highly doubt you have zero applicants putting a key up

[alpine wraith]

and in 40 mins i had 2 people try to join

[woeful egret]

If I'm running above a 7 I'm not pugging it, especially not batol, seige, or wake

[lilac stag]

Unless you’re running 12+

[slate nest]

I got these two people during the last 20 mins of key

[alpine wraith]

ah cot is kinda doomed

[lilac stag]

Reroll your key better.

[alpine wraith]

kekw

[woeful egret]

gotta reroll at the end of a run tho right?

[slate nest]

I need to get into a +4 for that

Which we all know is hard with no rio

[lilac stag]

Is your ilvl like 600 or something?

[fallow nimbus]

The most overwhelming thing for new sub rogues is that between cds we have no real redline. Assa has 1min and 2min, inbetween that just vibe and keep dots up, clip envenom. Sub needs that too. The new 3 sods just add more confusion

[slate nest]

612

[lilac stag]

Your io?

[slate nest]

800

I couldn't get into keys

Not even +2s

[woeful egret]

what is your group name?

[slate nest]

+4

[fallow nimbus]

That's like my dh alt with 3 dungeons done

[slate nest]

My rogue is named Abomination

with funny characters

[woeful egret]

i can tank it for you, but I main WW

[slate nest]

KEKW

[keen dome]

It's the 'ol run dungeons to run dungeons

[woeful egret]

what I need is grim batol on my monk to get my IO boosted

[lilac stag]

If you applying as sub with that ilvl and io good luck.

[slate nest]

exactly

I can't get into shit

[lilac stag]

sadly it looks like you don’t play the game

[slate nest]

I started rogue late

[frosty bridge]

go farm delves

[woeful egret]

I got away with sub in raid, but after tuesday I don't think it'll fly with sin updates

[frosty bridge]

ez champ\hero gear

[keen dome]

Push some delves, run low keys, blast raid.

[lilac stag]

You should be in delves

Get to 619

[alpine wraith]

yea delves are super good

[woeful egret]

2 crests per 8 completed in delves is absolutely aids

[keen dome]

I wonder what a Demon Run is..

[slate nest]

delves are super boring as well

[woeful egret]

I spam them at work, but that's because group content is too risky

[fallow nimbus]

Timer over 1 hour

[keen dome]

I'm applying to it because i gotta know

I won't get invited though

[lilac stag]

Gearing isn’t exciting. Delves a fuck ton better than sitting in lfg / discord complaining.

[keen dome]

ye

You can do Delves in group, remember!

[woeful egret]

if it's puppet master day, the spiral weave is legit. Each run is about 6 minutes long for me in tier 8 and I'm not a giga chad gamer

[alpine wraith]

usually is do all lfr

do delves as much as you can

then try to sneak in normal

then dungeons

[lilac stag]

You can run LFR

[round latch]

why whats wrong with those? 😛

[lilac stag]

You can do world boss

All the shit we did week 1-3

Welcome to gearing

[slate nest]

I mean, I still need 4 delves for weekly

[alpine wraith]

i actually find weird there is no catch up for delve keys

[woeful egret]

nothing is wrong with them, I've just had bad experiences and want a group that will not raise my blodd pressure

[alpine wraith]

i did quite some boralus

[woeful egret]

I find it weird they put a limit on buying keys with undercoins

[keen dome]

Keys are always competitive to get into, and this season it's even worse as a Sub rogue than ever before. But .io and iLevel will win out for lower stuff which.. yeah, self-fulling cycle.

[solemn mulch]

I kinda hit my wall at +12 keys for sub, gotta que as assas with full sub gear to get into any keys now. :c

[lilac stag]

Or you buy tokens and pay for a carry.

[woeful egret]

can't have gearing alts more streamlined

[keen dome]

We'll never know waht the Demon Run is 😦

[lilac stag]

Alt gearing pretty easy

[round latch]

we all did u just need to get some ilvl and u gonna jump into 10s dw.Both tyr and fort in there

[woeful egret]

I'm 616 atm, I just prefer not to pug m+ above 7, thats all

[keen dome]

Actually wild how easy it is up to a point.

Esp if you finish the rep factions off. bam, 4 619 pieces.

[woeful egret]

it's not hard, just limiting the key purchases is a little gatekeepy imo

[keen dome]

5 if you just do the queen bit too

[slate nest]

what trinkets do i need for sub?

[woeful egret]

I should be 619, but I was playing my monk for a couple weeks and didn't farm all them crests 😦

[slate nest]

mad queen and transmitter?

[solemn mulch]

I use transmitter and void reapers contract.

[woeful egret]

I got a hero track ritual knife and spyglass, kind of unlucky with trinkets this season

[keen dome]

I'm on Skardyn and Void Reapers atm

No real luck on anything more.

(I say, having the BiS Ass trinket)

Ritual Knife owns though.

[woeful egret]

I got trolled, ran some lower stuff with a friend and didn't have time to cap my vault. Got skardyn's on the low dungeon

[short radish]

is there any point playing sub next week on court?

[woeful egret]

very sad day

I was checking bloodmallet and ovi'nax's mercurial egg sims high, but it's lower on wowhead tier lists

I have one of those, thought about trying it out

[keen dome]

I imagine that's pretty good if you can stand still for a while. I recall Fuu had it ranked pretty high on the BiS list, with that ceveat of standing still

Which is why I will never run it

[woeful egret]

years of ADHD rogue pvp strafing makes this trinket useless to me then

[keen dome]

adadadadadada

[woeful egret]

it increases dodge chance fr fr

[vale pine]

catlike reflexes did too