subtlety

[left ledge]

Gearing is kind of ass this expac

[lilac stag]

buy shoulders with guild bank. Duh

[tepid trellis]

[topaz raptor]

yikes

cursed haste is sweet though i like that

did you use your gilded cap this week already

aren't you 7/8

i am 629.0 and we do like 1.5 hrs of mythic per week

[clever delta]

im 631 but im not playing 😄

[crystal spear]

What's zenith?

[left ledge]

Holy shit mittic transmitter

[topaz raptor]

might be the name of the rogue tier token

[left ledge]

I have the mythic boe ring

[crystal spear]

Ooh

[tepid trellis]

same

but im currently playing assa

and its not worth it for me to equip for assa atm

[left ledge]

Yeah

Same

:/

My sub gear is crazy but

Sub is not crazy

[crystal spear]

I'm swapping to sin man, i cant deal with sub anymore

[vale lagoon]

is it too high on copium for me to want to wait for next reset

maybe try a few keys with the changes

before switching lol

[crystal spear]

Dude i'm hoping the changes will be magically good

[vale lagoon]

i got the feeling that we're still gonna be dead in the water then

[crystal spear]

I almost dont want to re craft

[vale lagoon]

imagine they give us some sort of bug

that actually buffs ur dmg by like 5%

or 10

lmao

[crystal spear]

You mean; imagine they fix our bugs

[vale lagoon]

at this point im more hoping for something else to break in a way that's favorable

rather than for things to not be broken

[vestal escarp]

bro came here with myth radio to complain

[uneven scarab]

[glacial hinge]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[round latch]

gorgeous human 😍

[ember steppe]

Wait the flagellation change isn’t happening anymore?

[uneven scarab]

no

Flag+blades both 1 min 30 now

[vale pine]

reverted

<- what blizz did on the flag changes

[ember steppe]

Thanks!

So its technically still a 90s burst, except we can’t control it like we did with dust, right?

[barren plume]

Lol we suck

[lethal gale]

give me flag 30s and blades 1min

[ember steppe]

They could, but then they’d nerf them accordingly lmao

Next thing you know our dmg curve looks like outlaw

[lethal gale]

Would just feel better instead of going into a M+ pull with below tank dps sometimes lol

[tawny token]

Hi. Returning sub rogue her.. Im doing almost no dmg in arena 2v2 or 3v3. I Just ding so my gear isent the greatest. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn tips and triks and the rotation? 🙂

[ember steppe]

Fair point

[azure mauve]

bro i hoenstly feel like zenith is a myth

its alwasy venerated

[pliant topaz]

#pvp you can find more help there

[alpine wraith]

as sub you wont do much dmg alone

but you can make someone's life miserable

[lilac stag]

Usually your own.

[alpine wraith]

sub aff is kinda something

you make the healer hate his life while totally balanced warlock has dots that hit harder than your evis

[warm depot]

time to recraft bros…

🫡

[tepid trellis]

[pliant topaz]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-balanced-gif-3226445978144001245

[warm depot]

i’m putting myself out of my misery

[void hound]

why is the .5 gameplay worse?

any huge brainers?

[hazy breach]

Its similar to how dark brew plays right now, with empty symbols

Where you arent sending dance or sectech

And you have to stagger all of your cds by a few seconds

[pliant topaz]

except instead of pooling dance only u sometimes pool both dance and sod

so its like afull minute of nothing except backstabs

[void hound]

yikes

so its a naked symbols between cds with one symbols plus dance?

[hazy breach]

Like flag > rupture > dance+symbols > strike > sectech > blades

[pliant topaz]

also 16 seconds blades is unironically aids

[void hound]

you send sec tec as first finisher now?

[pliant topaz]

yea

[hazy breach]

Ye because otherwise you cant fit 2

[pliant topaz]

during cds that is

[hazy breach]

Since 16s blades

[void hound]

right cause i imagine you want to cover the mastery portion now

[hazy breach]

No

[pliant topaz]

no

[hazy breach]

You dont generate enough if you dont use it early

[pliant topaz]

^

[hazy breach]

And you get less damage

[pliant topaz]

also a lot more damage instrike now than sectech kinda weird how its working

[void hound]

ok so you delay but not by that much

damn that sucks

cause if it was about the mastery buff that would have been somewhat intuitive at least

[pliant topaz]

u dont really delay except premeditation

[warm depot]

man no dust just makes it not fun at all

dont take this away from me

[pliant topaz]

unironically though, trickster is really fun now ngl

[warm depot]

at the cost of the nimble bug?

[pliant topaz]

:^)

[warm depot]

:^)

sub is pain

[lilac stag]

Surpassing prot warrior dmg yet?

[gilded ferry]

blue post from today had nothing new right?

just a summary

[keen dome]

Not for Rogue, as I saw, anyway.

[warm depot]

pretty much everything was as is in ptr i think

[merry agate]

Flying over ptr patchnotes and seeing 6% buff to ret pala on the way to the rogue section

Cool blizz

[modern marten]

It's been fun subs I think I'm going ass

https://tenor.com/view/gold-star-succession-gif-27712928

[sacred yarrow]

Another soldier 🫡

[vale pine]

have fun

[ember steppe]

Trinket sims seem to be dead fuu just a heads up

[barren plume]

Rogue is doooooooomed

[vale pine]

need to re-do sims soon

11.0.5

so not a issue

[ember steppe]

Okay

[modern marten]

ok I'm back... ugh I can't leave my first love

I'm just not an ass man

[winter harbor]

i just dont get why they cant make changes that don't dumb down the class...if I wanted to play ret or bm I would just do it.

is pressing tea really that fucking taxing?

[vale pine]

we just hope that we manage to get trickster in a good spot with bugfixes etc

so we can play it

as it is better than deathstalker in all ways

gameplay wise

[vestal escarp]

jesus kyveza as sub

[modern marten]

I don't mind the complexity if it didn't change every season. But as with all prior changes just means I'm gonna spend some time at the training dummy

[vestal escarp]

[modern marten]

I thought deathstalker was neat and I liked that I had more opportunities to try and use both hero classes... do these changes mean deathstalker is no longer a viable option?

[winter harbor]

i mean this extends to sin as well though who already had very little decision making in ST. Now we cant even choose to tea and have auto ER.

Like god, I may actually take an extended indefinite break after I get CE

[vale pine]

the opposite

deathstalker currently looks better

but again, wait for more sims as we still work on it

[winter harbor]

I thought they would have walked back some of these but nah, apparently we aren't even capable of casting SnD a single time which was already kind of weird to me.

[soft summit]

There is a reason why Ret is the most play class and spec and sub and ass rogues are the least played class and specs. While you may enjoy complexity and challenge, most don’t find it fun.

So blizzard needs to decide to make a class for the small minority of people who enjoy that kind of complexity, or they can design it in a way that’s enjoyable for the great majority of people

[winter harbor]

It's okay to have a spectrum of classes. Just like it's ok to have the gangplanks and rivens in league. There are a ton of peepodent classes to choose from, having a single one that requires you to be awake is fine.

[vale pine]

assassiantion is quite popular

currently

also i wouldn't say its rocket science to play

[winter harbor]

^agreed

all of wow is pretty simple

rogue being a bit more complicated than others doesn't make it unplayable.

[vale pine]

ye, i mean thats classes

not specs

[mental comet]

nice class we have

[vale pine]

rogues general low popularity

is rooted in game design

basically in arpgs, rpgs, and other game types

rogue can be one of the most popualr archetypes

[soft summit]

well of that 3% of the player base playing rogue, i'd say most are playing ass. But that still means its 3% of the player base

[vale pine]

BUT in wow

image the concept of a rogue

a glass cannon

you need to be swift, kill your target fast

and thats the design

but wait

the damage needs to be within the same area as everyone else

so we keep all the negative perks

but nerf the damage

of a glass cannon design

and end up surprised

"why arn't people playing it more?"

[winter harbor]

people dont play rogue because its horrid in solo content including leveling. Most quit before they get max.

[vale pine]

^

thats my point

[winter harbor]

Getting rid of tea and ER doesnt fix any of that

[vale pine]

you do damage to one target, are permanently out of energy

need stuns to survive

[winter harbor]

like who is in charge of this crap

[vale pine]

i love how 10.2 increased energy costs even

making the epxerience even more painful

now the price question

why would you play rogue

you need to do one mob after a other

then eat to gain hp

[soft summit]

if that were true, then the numbers in classic should have a simialr %

[vale pine]

etc.

[winter harbor]

yeah we do 1 at a time and others pull 20 and kill them all in like 6 seconds haha

[vale pine]

when you can just jump in the same group as a other melee class

and destroy it, no need for a stop/eating

[vale pine]

diffrent audience

people who play classic are people who played vanilla

also the popualtion is decided on the end game performance

[winter harbor]

? I mean compare paladin in classic to what it is now. Back then you needed to play specific classes to be useful.

[vale pine]

so classes that perform well in end game will have a higher popularity

[winter harbor]

If classic had our version of ret who is basically a demi god then I'm sure those would be much different. Rogue hasn't changed much since then, others are basically playing a completely new game compared to us.

[topaz egret]

At least sub isn't Assa rogue

God damn that spec is boring

[vale pine]

try deathstalker on ptr

trickster plays well but damn, deathstalker is a shame

[topaz egret]

stop scaring me

[winter harbor]

as fuu said it also has a guaranteed endgame meta. If you suffer through X class (war / rogue) you are guaranteed to be top damage. There is not going to be some random patch to even things out. In current wow, if all classes are kept as equal as possible why suffer through a horribly clunky leveling experience?

[vale pine]

tbh

classic leveling was a terrible experience

i am still unsure why people love to do it

but its a mix of nostalgia and a wish for simpler times

classic is its own game mode and i am happy for anyone who likes and enjoys it

but when i played in wotlk

and leveled my first char

i took almost a month break before reaching max level

[winter harbor]

I think people just like having all the answers. They want to know the best X for Y task and follow guides and spreadsheets.

[vale pine]

just because the quest design and experience did bore me to death

[winter harbor]

knowing that it will never change

[vale pine]

thats fine

thats part of end game

people will download and use dungeon tools

and import routes

instead of figuring out a fight

and for raids, most of the top guilds now have boss guides

so people will watch them and follow it instead of trying to sovle the boss by themselve

[winter harbor]

sure im just saying that in classic that playstyle giga thrives.

at least in retail things change a lot

[vale pine]

classic had classes

literally using one spell

and content is trivial compared to modern wow

yet, the ones playing are fairly elitist

and will look down on you if you play the wrong class

and class balance is...

wild

[winter harbor]

the guild thing following guides is so true now...my guild just copy / pastes cd timers and defensives from other guilds now. Before hand we would watch a video or something then play it out and find our way but now its so formulaic. "this is what my weekday guild did, links copy/pasted spreadsheet with our names autofilled in" and then we just do it.

[vale pine]

for rotations

many classes are by now simple enough to not even require a guide

ret is a good example

some are complex, like sutbtlety

but people get extremely confused about it for the same reason

so you get even less new players on it

[winter harbor]

they even want people to imports the lorrrgs shit

i dont do it but damn, it seems people are trying everything they can to get the game to play itself lol

[sweet summit]

watchin ret absolutely fucking blast while pressing 4 buttons

u will consider this irl combo after witnessing it

[lilac stag]

Ret was absolute trash for the longest time.

[vague oar]

Sub is interesting. It's shockingly simple once u realize just hold all ur shit for blades

But I also suck ass at this game so I really shouldn't say anything

[wispy pebble]

The fact they don't fix nimble is actually insane

[vale pine]

its not that

the game is performance focused

so every part of it will tell you that you are not worth it when your damage isn't fitting

having a option that is easy fixes the problem for you

i know a few ret players who had big struggles with the game

but now are in love

they picked up the same downlooking perspective on others they got exposed to when they are in the perspective of having low performance

[cloud rover]

and they should be again

[sweet summit]

the problem imo is the reward, ezclass gets to blast

[cloud rover]

it was never fair

[vale pine]

a lot of motivation to play is output

[mental comet]

imo if your class can only dps it should just be better than anything like ret which is on a class that can also tank and heal

[vale pine]

love or hate it

[mental comet]

since you have no options

[sweet summit]

yr reward for learning sub ?

shit in yr mouth

im not actually this pessimistic its just kinda fuuny

4 button class go crazy

[winter harbor]

basically bm in dragonflight

[vale pine]

the burst damage is good

[sweet summit]

it is

[vale pine]

the rest is tuning

[winter harbor]

havocs are bursting pretty close to us

but have the ability to blast like all content lol

[sweet summit]

we r in pretty meh state rn it seems but i will cope and say that better times are coming

and hey changes are coming

[left ledge]

i hope they implement changes that force us to use blades after flag ends

[winter harbor]

depends on what you consider better times, damage or playstyle.

[left ledge]

i want to flag, dance, go through it all and then gloomblade with blades until the end of the fight

[winter harbor]

because playstyle is going down the gutter

[merry agate]

I just hate that you cant complain as a rogue in the eyes of other players

[lilac stag]

Nah. Just more effort should be put into using the utility more. Them getting a free pass to ignore a lot of extras they can bring to keys and raid is a shame. The rotation is by design pretty straight forward so they can use their utility in the group. Most don’t. Healers that swap to ret are so much fun to play with.

[toxic knoll]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[whole cypress]

i just saw shadowdust removed, but they only reduced the shadow blades cooldown, we wont get other cooldowns reduced

are we more fucked than before?

[lilac stag]

welcome to 2+ weeks ago.

!dot5

[wicked jolt]

The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a downgrade.
Things that get worse in the patch:

• Talent diversity
• Defensives
• Gameplay
  This does not meant he patch is bad, just that it isn't a great update to Subtlety.

[wind canopy]

I was wondering what's dot5 mean, then I realized that meant .5

[vestal escarp]

when death

is perceived

[steel horizon]

Cant wait for 16 second SB 🙃

[alpine wraith]

yea it is our death perception

[lilac stag]

already dead

[wind canopy]

I wonder how hard it would be to hotfix the 16 second Blades to 20 if they decide that it was bad idea

[lilac stag]

as difficult as getting flurry to 50%

[wind canopy]

[lilac stag]

[merry agate]

Time is a flat circle - BFA 2.0

[alpine wraith]

nah bfa was a bit worse

here this at least hope

[harsh drum]

No more wasting combo points on slice n dice make me happy 🙂

[alpine wraith]

bfa was malignant giving us things then taking them away

[lilac stag]

Next update backstab will be main dmg source

[alpine wraith]

well you are backstabbing for more than 40s now

so kinda

oh you storm sometimes too

[lilac stag]

You’re still casting it chief.

[merry agate]

Remember back then you were cooking with the last dance azerite power

[alpine wraith]

man the recalibrating trink was so good

[harsh drum]

I thought eviscerate would auto cast it now

[alpine wraith]

no we found another way to not cast snd

[merry agate]

Abandoned ship back then but still was checking in for sub

[alpine wraith]

now you strike flag evis vanish strike rupture

then enter dance

then you make a bit of a gap in between dances and you get second sec tech on second dance

[lilac stag]

Ah cttc is saved.

[alpine wraith]

you also blades after sec tech kek

[lilac stag]

Rip

[alpine wraith]

the duration is so littlo

[lilac stag]

that’s what she said

[alpine wraith]

man the people asking for macros are going to be rabid

CAN I MACRO DANCE TO X

no

can i macro blades to x

no

can i macro flag to

no

[lilac stag]

https://tenor.com/view/ls-bezbecja-paciorek-bezbek-karol-gif-19550666

Fuu and macros

[vestal escarp]

the good old 'macro dance to symbols but keep symbols separated'

[pliant topaz]

what if i told u to not macro sectech eithr?

[mental comet]

[sick jackal]

well guys i hoped it would never come to this but it seems i am going assa aswell i hope to see yall here again one day

[alpine wraith]

take care

[empty plume]

Sub is for kyveza

[sick jackal]

well then ill be back really soon once we kill ovinax

[hard wren]

0k need short and correct answer

nevermind. I'll wait a week

[desert panther]

https://gyazo.com/c3320ccdf6fab07f52b50180195ac1ad

Practicing Sub and u see some shit in pugs

[fallow nimbus]

When i did some m+ as assa i was reminded why target locked cds are pure trash

[desert panther]

how are they pure trash

just put them on the focus add

Does any1 do log reviews?

!log

[hollow patio]

!log

[modern marten]

Nobody understands us lol. My friends just stare blankly at me.

Even my wife is just like “I don’t get why your complaining beast master is blah blah”

[topaz raptor]

really hard for people to listen to your complains when the button is right there

the solution to all your problems

[short radish]

not wrong

i swapped to assi and instantly regrew all my hair + landed some bitches when i went outside and touched grass

[topaz raptor]

i have been having so much intercourse since i made the move

[fallow bone]

that pin is getting me fired up

[wooden kernel]

when do we press transmitter

[sinful sluice]

Ppl seem to just macro it with flag

[wooden kernel]

gotcha, ty

[modern marten]

Changing difficulties

Sticking around

[sweet summit]

guess who just found out they had double the ping they could have had

i was on area 52 which is chicago and i live in hawaii

swapped to tichondrius and halfed my ping

[fair stump]

Do we BP on 2 targets?

[pliant topaz]

as deathstalker yes

[sweet summit]

wait so about the macro things

is this macro kill ?

[topaz raptor]

that is a pretty wild and crazy macro to begin with

[sweet summit]

idk man i just saw this

[topaz raptor]

where's your potion blud

poor?

[sweet summit]

fuck consumables

yes

need 2 craft my shit still og

so i should just delete that macro rn ong ?

i just saw them all stacked

and was like oh thats a macro

[short radish]

put transmitter with flag

other than th at, the macro is fine

also why are you playing sub

are you okay?

do you need to talk to someone

[sweet summit]

it produces dopamine

[short radish]

true

[sweet summit]

without dopamine i use this macro

[pliant topaz]

u wuldnt blades with dance / sod if you have premed after tuesday

[short radish]

can't say playing assi ever gave me a dopamine rush from setting up some sick bleeds

[sweet summit]

irl

[short radish]

i hate that that icon is red

makes me think im out of range

[sweet summit]

when should i be running premed

im not rn

[hazy breach]

After the .5 patch

Not right now

[pliant topaz]

^

[sweet summit]

gotcha

[sweet summit]

so uh when do we cast blades after tuesday

[dense geode]

what makes chaos better flask?

[hazy breach]

After premed

[sweet summit]

ok ok

[hazy breach]

Or well, after sectech, but mostly after premed

[sweet summit]

the new rotation pic after tuesday will save me

[hazy breach]

Theres still some stuff to find out through simc

We should have a post up soonish

[vale lagoon]

premed???

wait

we're specing into that?

omg

wtf is this

[hazy breach]

#1271971289396936735 Posted some stuff here

Ill have fuu link it in the pin once he wakes up

[tribal blade]

so come reset we're never playing with vigor+tea ever again

[dry yarrow]

is .5 next week or?

[hazy breach]

Tea is fine

[tribal blade]

is it possible to pick it up?

[pliant topaz]

you would give lethality + cb

[tribal blade]

hmmm i see

i don't think we have enough crit to get away with that right now

[hazy breach]

CB isnt that great

But neither is tea

[tribal blade]

oh interesting

true

very true

[pliant topaz]

what im more concerned about is the over reliance on swift

[tribal blade]

could you do a super scuffed build of 2/2 vigor and 1 lethality

[tribal blade]

even on M+ builds?

[hazy breach]

Thats not actually a thing

Non swift sims like -0.4%

And about as good on trickster

[pliant topaz]

hmm, ill try it out more i guess. it felt kinda really awjward without it

but 0.4 is really good news!

like I was comparing it vs PE

[vale lagoon]

currently, dust + tea actually sims higher than dust + cb in M+ lol

kinda crazy

[hazy breach]

Ye but a talent can be the one you pick without it being good

Compared to stratagem or supercharger both tea and cb are weak af

[vale lagoon]

ofc

im just imagining a world where we run tea and supercharge

[hazy breach]

And thats with supercharger not working on shadowed finisher

[vale lagoon]

over cb lol

OH

DUDE

[tribal blade]

is sectec just not doing enough damage right now for CB to be good

[vale lagoon]

NAME ONE THING THAT WORKS WITH SHADOWED FINISHER

WTF

[soft raft]

how much is Forced Induction Eleem

I might just be misunderstanding the wording on it

(it makes the finisher count as +1 CP right?)

[hazy breach]

Ye

[soft raft]

[wind canopy]

Damn, you’re up late Eleem

[vale lagoon]

man at what point do we just not spec into shadowed finishers

jeez

[wind canopy]

*Elmo

[hazy breach]

Ye thats how it goes sometimes

[hazy breach]

Its pretty good

[pliant topaz]

we got it to 1501??

pogg

last was 1496

huge

[soft raft]

that's quite a lot

[hazy breach]

Its effectively +1 cp to every sectech, its stronk

[soft raft]

yep

[hazy breach]

(and one eviscerate, but mainly sectech)

[soft raft]

i was just curious how it fared vs the other talent

[hazy breach]

Echoing isnt great

Since its an extra proc to your backstab

[soft raft]

yep

[hazy breach]

Not shadowstrike

[soft raft]

wait, its backstab only

blizzard why dude

[hazy breach]

So you often waste one

[soft raft]

makes sense

[spark tusk]

Just a bit of copium from me

But

When you spec Echoing

[hazy breach]

And strike does about the same as backstab+echoing

[spark tusk]

and use stab/mut/sinister

does the animation look like current er?

[hazy breach]

So no point backstabbing in dance

[spark tusk]

or is there no animation chnage

just damage

also wtf backstab only

[tribal blade]

it is wild it's only backstab

[hazy breach]

Just like PV and lingering

[soft raft]

Wait a minute these dont work like old ER

[hazy breach]

And flensing

[tribal blade]

once again the devs are not thinking about how sub works

[soft raft]

god im so out of the loop on the roguer

[hazy breach]

No, its +3 cp on your next finisher (s)

[soft raft]

i logged into ptr to smack to make sure

thats actually so good

[hazy breach]

Yeah

Massive W

[vale lagoon]

wait but we take premed over PE now or what

that's fking insane

[hazy breach]

Yes the opener and blades window gets scuffed as hell without premed

[vale lagoon]

does crit get more valuable for us now lol

[hazy breach]

No

As deathstalker crit is poopoo

Worse than haste

[vale lagoon]

WOW

wait but why

[tribal blade]

do you guys have a build that's doing the best right now

[hazy breach]

#1271971289396936735

[vale lagoon]

is it just bcuz all our dmg come from darkest night + cb sectech

[hazy breach]

And rotten

Ye

[vale lagoon]

oh but also ig rotten + ds is good

it's basically silent storm

without speccing into silent storm

lmao

[hazy breach]

Except on storm rotten only works on 2 hits

[vale lagoon]

WHAT

[hazy breach]

Not 2 casts

[vale lagoon]

WHAT

WHAT

im

done

[soft raft]

do you happen to know the decay rate on supercharged poitns out of combat eleem

[vale lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/boneworks-kms-suicide-cockandballtortureisfunnyhaha-revolver-gif-19983342

[soft raft]

i cba measuring it and i dont want to prepull symbols

[hazy breach]

Pretty sure its never, but i could be wrong

[soft raft]

that was me losing real cp

[hazy breach]

It resets to 2 on boss pulls

[soft raft]

yeah they're not going away for me jut afk in org

so ig pop a symbols when you res

[hazy breach]

Somebody told me the effect is still active even after it resets to 2, so you still have 7 finishers that get buffed

But i havent checked because no boss PTR logs

[soft raft]

i'd check but i couldnt copy char so i have no keybinds

pain

[vale lagoon]

man i swear these changes are so good for tricks on paper tho

if rotten is bugged that way

but ig the flurry bugs are just too much?

[topaz raptor]

Yeah I’m gonna need a longer pull timer

[hazy breach]

If we can stack up 7 yeah

But if it resets to 2 (like it probably should) then its fine

Since you can just symbols once after you rezz and its fine

Technically you can do one at like 20s on pulltimer to get rotten but its not very big

[vale lagoon]

oh but man how do we even play symbols now

i guess i gotta check that hidden channel

MAN it just sounds like such a chore in M+ lol

[hazy breach]

Its not too different from now

[vale lagoon]

ehhhh now it's just send symbols on cd no

[silent geode]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[manic island]

https://i.imgur.com/h0GB7bO.png is it me or does this seem shit

[hazy breach]

At first glance it seems shit yes

But its actually strong

[manic island]

but tanks chain pulling in m+ kek

hold on guys lemme get my dance

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter than much

And most keys you have plenty of times for it anyway

Like in dawnbreaker youll get it most pulls, same with GB

Mostly the talents its competing with is really weak

Its actually fairly close to weaponmaster on a standard ST sim 💀

[manic island]

lmao

[hazy breach]

Its like 1% behind

[manic island]

when it comes to theory crafting i am worse than bad

[tribal blade]

12 seconds of dance is a lot

[hazy breach]

But if you think of it in another way, tfd is like 30 seconds of dance CDR

[pliant topaz]

whats terrifying is that thing being 1% behind wm..

[tribal blade]

WM needs to work with storm and the % bumped up

[hazy breach]

Yep

I have no idea why lingering or wm doesnt work on storm

inev and unseen blade too

[sweet summit]

: )

[pliant topaz]

dont forget PV

but also wm would prob be a bit better

if it wasnt bugged with sht

[hazy breach]

I often do, for good reason

[pliant topaz]

unfathomably based ngl

okay but pv could be so cool

soooooo cool

but then its like ???

[hazy breach]

It should atleast be next non-backstab builder, but theres more stuff it could do

[soft raft]

... how is nado on st rn

[pliant topaz]

or u know

it oculd stack?

be consumed only on say strike?

[pliant topaz]

not great

not even good on aoe

[soft raft]

poor nado

[hazy breach]

Nado purposefully doesnt work with blades

So its jank on like 5 targets

[soft raft]

it does work with premed right

[hazy breach]

And on ST you need to use it outside blades because otherwise it would eat your shadow technique stacks

To give you like 3 cp, and then you strike to full etc

[hazy breach]

Think so

[soft raft]

yeah it seems to

can do max cp -> nado -> dance -> evis -> evis

... no clue how useful that is though

[hazy breach]

Not very

But nado is weak af for trickster, since you want to strike with the unseen procs from the sectech proc

[soft raft]

well, after a short hit session on ptr i think rogue might be the next rat i resurrect

ty for answering random stuff eleem

[ornate heron]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale lagoon]

how bad is trickster next patch lol

given how the 35% buff is a bit iffy?

[ornate heron]

are there any sub rogue streameers doing keys this season?

[tribal blade]

i'm sorry but cool interactions not allowed in sub tree

[tribal blade]

man i swapped to sin and really quickly gained a bunch of IO, and now that I have the harder 12s left not getting any invites again

and the groups i get in are pretty terrible, there's a million deaths in every key which kills the timer

[tribal blade]

oh ok i see why, i listed my key and there's a billion people queueing

it all makes sense now

[left ledge]

how we feeling tonight sub rogues

are we excited for the big patch

we finally get to play our fav hero tree deathstalker

[wispy bolt]

I finally get to learn assa

[amber thorn]

does sub burst dmg looking to be way lower when they remove shadowdust?

[fierce cedar]

we are excited to play other classes

[pliant topaz]

no

[muted agate]

sopa charge

[still quartz]

!up

[wicked jolt]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/304343434137960449/1283842520308256858/image.png

[left peak]

fr?

[muted agate]

WHY NOT TRANSMITTER BRO

[tepid trellis]

sub needs boofa

[nimble burrow]

!Wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border

[serene notch]

"Thistle Tea now automatically drinks when Energy falls below 30." ewwww?

[pliant topaz]

wths boofa?

[serene notch]

I thought they decided aginast that

[pliant topaz]

also big gz on the kill mr racoon

[tepid trellis]

how about you fit boofa deez nuts in your mouth

and ty

shoulda died tuesday i think, but its aite

[pliant topaz]

my RL today said why dont u play sin on kyveza

its joever

[tepid trellis]

cuz the 150k diff in dps wont matter

tell him to piss off

and dodge daggers

bozo

[alpine wraith]

tell him you get a debuff and you play worse as assa

[pliant topaz]

he did die to daggers the pull after

kekw

[tepid trellis]

you wont die to enrage anyway

[pliant topaz]

probably not but also i dont think it dies this week anywyas

and idk sub is stronger next week so its not aweful

also youre 100% right i have infinite uptime on that boss as sub

[tepid trellis]

shouldnt take more than 50 pulls i think now

just dont be greedy on daggers

and you are fine

[tepid trellis]

same for any class that can block the charge

its just a target dummy fight

[pliant topaz]

i didnt know this but apparently warriors can reflect reaper?

[tepid trellis]

no clue

not something id wanna test

[pliant topaz]

but yeah your cloak tech is super useful

[fair anchor]

Do you always send sectec second finisher in danse as deathstalker ? Or can it be 3rd if you have DN up for second finisher ?

Seems like a waste to sectec 3rd finisher with our tier set

[pliant topaz]

because of the bug DN takes prio now, but in 5 days, youll be sending it first finisher in cds

[fair anchor]

Oh

Cool

Thanks

[devout skiff]

does anyone know what key level that m+ starts having a chance to drop more than 2 pieces? like how before it was 20% per key level after 15 to loot an extra piece

[tepid trellis]

ngl tho silken court is such a bitch

so much dmg holding

-.-

[pliant topaz]

yeah it doest seem very fun ngl

[tepid trellis]

fight itself is ok

but if you are red team

[pliant topaz]

like a little too repetative from what ive seen

[tepid trellis]

you miss out on 1 dmg amp

cuz during the first charge in p3, you need to bait a frontal

[pliant topaz]

oh thats kinda aids

maybe i ask for blue team then heheh

[tepid trellis]

its sorta fine tho

cuz you dont wanna send your cds into the charge amp

you want the dispel amp

cuz your cds are so long

but the good thing tho is, that its not really a dps race boss

[alpine wraith]

well good thing next week they shorten our cds kek

[tepid trellis]

doesent matter

[alpine wraith]

might try trickster once or twice anyway to see how the cdr pans out

but ds might be better anyway

[tepid trellis]

charge is 12sec

the dispell one is waaaay longer

[alpine wraith]

dizzy is 15 iirc?

or maybe it changes in mythic

[tepid trellis]

nah it starts taking more dmg after your first dispel

20% per debuff

[alpine wraith]

ah so you stagger

do like 1 2 3

[tepid trellis]

first 4 are rather fast

last one is saved for last sec

[tepid trellis]

we just stunned him here and my cds just got rdy basically

you can see frontal above my target frame

it needs to be baited not on the charged mob

and its team red that needs to bait that

so you can see here we bait it to the backside of the stunned mob, so the entire blue team can hit him from the front

but honestly like, by far the most important thing on this fight

and i cannot stress it enough (to not tilt the fuck out of everybody in the raid)

know where you are meant to be with dispells

example

in p2 dispell 1-2 are done instantly basically when you get and 3rd is done in the center of the room when boss jumps. nr 3 needs to premove to the middle

in p3 dispel 1 is done instantly and 2nd is done in the center so its very very fucking important that 2nd guy is standing in the middle rdy for when the boss jumps to him

[pliant topaz]

makes sense yeah i feel like for a not so organized raid this boss is gonna be a nightmare...

[tepid trellis]

not killable xD

gonna show you how close it gets

thats when our last dispel goes off

0.1 sec

[pliant topaz]

holy fuck thats tight

[tepid trellis]

we messed up and had 1 dispel jump

so really, you just cant afford to fuck it up

[pliant topaz]

im already depresse thinking about ow this is gonna go for us LOL

[tepid trellis]

i do like the dance of the fight tho

i like fights like these

where once everything is planned and people are on the same page

its just smooth like butter

[pliant topaz]

ill have an opinion on it once i get to do it

but from past experience things that are super super scripted and just needs people to not fuck up really tilt me

cuz im like, why are we fucking this up...

[left peak]

Will the only difference for trickster on silken next week be less sectech but 1:30cds still the same?

[pliant topaz]

dont think there are fewer sectechs

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

yea you still send at 40 secs

scarabs help a bit with the cdr

[left peak]

like less since no dust reset I mean

[tepid trellis]

you are ognna miss out on two dmg amps

[left peak]

or is that just false

[tepid trellis]

thats the difference from now

to next week

[left peak]

word

[tepid trellis]

and yeah tripple dancing is joever

[pliant topaz]

how so?

do u need to falg vanish blades?

[tepid trellis]

yes

on two of them

[pliant topaz]

i see

welp rip

[tepid trellis]

but i think you could be blue team

and you would only miss one

i think

id need to check that

nvm is still two

[left peak]

I just got to silken tn. Was playing assa but idk what the play is next week. DS mark felt weird cause im blue starting on the skinny boss

[tepid trellis]

you would miss the 2nd one in p2 and the 2nd one in p3

if you were blue

wait

red you miss 3 now

[pliant topaz]

LOL

[left peak]

xdd

[tepid trellis]

unless you send really early on the first one in p2

you might get some of it on the 2nd

otherwise you would lose

2nd p2
1charge p3
Double set p3

[pliant topaz]

sub deadge

kek

[alpine wraith]

you can cheat a bit tho

[tepid trellis]

think your dmg will kinda be the same

[alpine wraith]

and send two superchargers into amp now

[tepid trellis]

you can pick up RS instead of swift

you wont need swift anymore

[tribal blade]

someone just linked this in my guild disc, DDDDD is bad right

because if sub is in the "well designed" category i'm gonna scream

[tepid trellis]

i need to race change to gnome

[brittle shard]

I hope you enjoy swimming

[tepid trellis]

i raid log

[brittle shard]

No swimming

[pliant topaz]

seems very fake

[tepid trellis]

not a lot of water to get stuck in

[brittle shard]

Safe environment

[tribal blade]

yeah i took a reglance at it and it seems weird

like this makes 0 sense

also my guildie clarified DDDDD is supposed to be best

[pliant topaz]

yeah seems like bait

[tribal blade]

if it is real and he was making it based on what his chat says

there are some special people out there

[tepid trellis]

they just see dmg numbers and think "OK"

and sub wasent doing bad during RWF

on the mid bosses

[tribal blade]

@pliant topaz i had to re-push up my inted key from 11 back to 12

numbers are getting there

maybe i break 2 mil overall soon

[tepid trellis]

thats a nasty comp

for assa

ngl

[tribal blade]

i was getting PI too haha

[tepid trellis]

only thing better wouldve been prot warr

[tribal blade]

true prot warr is big

[pliant topaz]

sub didnt get plaayed until silken, even then world first was sin

[tepid trellis]

it was

[pliant topaz]

welcome to assa

[tepid trellis]

they saw kush top dmg on kyvezza and Silken

on some sub

thats all they will remember

[pliant topaz]

he was 12th on kyveza i think

[short radish]

perfect for next week when we play assi

[pliant topaz]

he may have been 14th even, its the only boss he didnt upload to his youtube

[tepid trellis]

was talking to when they aug'd him

thats all twitch chat will remember

[pliant topaz]

eh maybe

[tepid trellis]

same with the 300 p1 queen wipes

where exile was top 3

[short radish]

0 chance prot pal is considered good in any metric

[pliant topaz]

i mean regardless theyre putting demo and outlaw there too and those specs werent even in the race

im pretty sure this is hard bait

[tribal blade]

if this is real it screams of him taking mostly chat's ideas

[pliant topaz]

^ ppal everyone is dooming

boomie everyones dooming

its legit turbo bait

everyone hates aug

[short radish]

he's jsut content farming

more reason to never watch max

[tepid trellis]

i never really watch wow streams

shits too boring

[short radish]

yeah that too

i dunno how people watch RWF

[tribal blade]

same, i'm not a stream watcher

[short radish]

at least RWL has content

[tribal blade]

i can't stand it when people spam the same thing

over and over

[short radish]

because you bring up 9 streams at once

[tribal blade]

like sheep

[tepid trellis]

i just dont really watch wow stuff

[short radish]

Hi Prophet (Graham). For Months I have created the illusion that you are talking to a large audience in Ravenholdt. But here’s the truth: all these people in the chat are me. And now, for you to be convinced of this, I will send this message from all my accounts.

[topaz egret]

Wow stream is more boring than staring at paint

[short radish]

wow stuff is just boring in general

it's so niche to be able to acutally enjoy watching wow gameplay

[tepid trellis]

think the only time i actually really watched wow streams

was for a bit in BFA

[tepid trellis]

funnily enough you showed up, it was watching you and jimmy doing m0s

[topaz egret]

Lmaaao

[wild vine]

Did you never watch a Bob Ross stream? Watching his paint dry was glorious

[short radish]

in order to enjoy watching most wow streams, you actually need to understand the content that they're doing

unless youre watching because the streamer is acutally engaging

like MDI?

if you dont m+

and you dont know routes

and dont understand the crazy stuff they do

it's just plain whatever

[topaz egret]

Old reckful wow streams goated

[short radish]

pvp is the worst

[tepid trellis]

43-0 arena streams

was some okay content

back in Mists/WoD

[short radish]

just "WOAH DUDE A JUST GOT CLONED AND DUDE B IS IN A STUN LOCK ITS OVER FOR TEAM BOBBLES"

[brisk onyx]

Love reckful

[short radish]

50x

[topaz egret]

Ok relax doomer...

Go outside and play football u little geezer

[wild vine]

Actually pvp was kinda exciting there

Now you just stab away at eachother

Until someone cant heal anymore

[short radish]

i think RBGs could be enjoyable pvp to watch

because theres some strategy element in it

[wild vine]

Nah BGs are literally the worst

[short radish]

that lesser people can appreciate

[wild vine]

Thats worse than watching soccer

[short radish]

haha

hey people still watch cricket

[tepid trellis]

only sport i follow is F1

[short radish]

but stuff like seeing random people break off

trying to ninja cap

i think is more easier to enjoy content

than just watching mana bars go down

[muted agate]

assassin FOR WHAT

[short radish]

for damage

and utility

[hollow patio]

Eyooo, does somebody have the image that was in the channel of TC Info about the rotation of DS?

[tribal blade]

the only sport i could ever get behind was MMA

anything with a ball and my brain turns off

[tepid trellis]

u mean something like this?

[hollow patio]

exactly that

[short radish]

better use it for all its worth

gone in 4 days!

[hollow patio]

now i know i've been doing the trickster rotation in DS herero tree 😄

[tribal blade]

you must have been very confused why you weren't able to fit 3 sectecs in flag

[hollow patio]

thats the reason why i started thinking, is there maybe something that im doing wrong?

xd

Tbh, i found DS pretty boring compared to trickster, so i didnt play that much, I might some time ago read that there was only 2 dances but maybe forgot due to trickster rotation with Invigorated

[golden totem]

Ds is boring, hate it as sub too

[tribal blade]

DS to me is a good idea poorly implemented

[bold brook]

I will not have a bad word said about cricket

[tribal blade]

my best friend growing up was indian

he loved cricket

and that's where i learnt about the crazy rivalry between india and pakistan

[bold brook]

Man you think USA love nfl, or brits love football, you have seen nothing compared to India and their love of cricket it's something else

[brisk onyx]

Really like the playstyle of trickster but it need more love(attention

[tribal blade]

yeah indians and cricket is really something

[soft nest]

hi

quick question if anyone can answer

do i get elemental focus lens or ascendeance

[tribal blade]

if you don't have a high ilvl weapon yet ascendance is the best thing to get

[soft nest]

what do you mean

by high level?

like

i have a 626 raid weapon

and then 636 crafted

@tribal blade

[tribal blade]

oh so you have a crafted wep alreaady?

[soft nest]

mm not exactly

but i have all thec rests

and everything prepped

i just havent made anything yet because i didnt know

[tribal blade]

if your highest mainhand weapon right now is 626 then you can pretty safely make ascendance on dagger

ascendance is also the safest embel to get right now

[soft nest]

okay

[short radish]

go put a watermelon on your head or something

[sacred cedar]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sacred cedar]

uh oh, looks like some of the sim links in the spreadsheet are expiring buddy @vale pine

[alpine wraith]

he is waiting for next patch

to update everything

[somber whale]

Do we only use sectech with DM stacks or just on cd now?

[bronze hatch]

rip invigorating my friend

my love

[toxic knoll]

Should we play deathstalker in m+ with the bp buff?

[frosty bridge]

deathstalker assa*

[cloud rover]

real

[vale pine]

yes, trinket sims did but i will re-sim them for 11.0.5 after the weekend

[vale pine]

you can, i found it annoying to play

[fallow nimbus]

With sub the mark isn't as annoying as it is on assa because bp hits it too

The times I forgot to ambush and still did more overall without knowing what i am even doing is uncountable. Just pathetic

[cloud rover]

Not opening with garrote

biggest muscle memory struggle

[fallow nimbus]

Yes

Did some assa keys in df s3/4

[frosty bridge]

exactly, still do it sometimes :x

[cloud rover]

and the classic is

not opening with ambush

using vanish to repair the error

and using garrote again

[fallow nimbus]

It's ass

[iron spear]

having to use ambush in sin, thats just peak comedy design

[frosty bridge]

why they attach mark to ambush and not to deathmark >.<

[placid elk]

lol

[fallow nimbus]

Why isn't blindside baseline? That's a point for 11.1

Make assa even more op

[placid elk]

they should have attached mark to distract

[frosty bridge]

aoe mark

with distract hahaha

[fallow nimbus]

Mark should be on the rogue

Like you empower your markings to enhance your death magic or something

Only the elite deathstalker receive their markings after the trial of death or something

[wheat elk]

mark is literally vendetta 2.0 XD

god i miss vendetta

fuck deathstmark

[fallow nimbus]

Like why would you mark your target so it knows you are about to get them

[placid elk]

cba, minigame stuff. i dropped it a few times in raid fights but i dont care anymore

[fallow nimbus]

Dagger in the dark in pvp was hilarious to spot rogues nearby

[hazy breach]

Wild take to prefer 30% dmg over something that interacts well with the kit imo

[wheat elk]

yes

i agree

im not saying vendetta was better dps wise

i just liked it XD

used to vendetta pride back in s1 sl and melt it

felt too good to pass on

[sinful sluice]

damn i worked so hard to learn sub dust rotation

and just by the time i start getting used to it its gone 😦

[lilac stag]

We warned you.

[sinful sluice]

but probs gonna stick to this class, its way too fun to get better at it

[fallow nimbus]

Fun detected fun removed

[sinful sluice]

im still dogshit but i feel like im starting to get hang of it

[young path]

Don’t worry, it changes in 4 days…

[fallow nimbus]

"My bs counts have doubled since we last met, count" anakin subwalker

[young path]

🙃

[sinful sluice]

but big stuff are staying right? like 1:30 cd cycle or other rotation stuff

[lilac stag]

#1271971289396936735 message

[sinful sluice]

wow vanish before rupture seems so wild

[keen dome]

i'm in this post and i don't like it 😦

[alpine wraith]

you vanish just to proc premed

[opaque violet]

its already what we do in non dust builds

[fallow nimbus]

Man blades with 16secs ruined it

[hazy breach]

Premed makes it kinda alright

But ye 16s blades aint great

[opaque violet]

Just cameback to the spec (last time i played it was at legion), shit's really weird to play

[fallow nimbus]

Return of premed

[hazy breach]

Or well, 16 second blades is fine, but 24 seconds of flag with it is weird

[lilac stag]

congrats on coming back to… 💩

[hazy breach]

Sectech cdr could be slightly higher or the cd be lower

[opaque violet]

I only play in m+ tho, that might not help

[lilac stag]

Even worse

[fallow nimbus]

Sectec should go to 45 and cb too

[opaque violet]

sectech should go to trash, give me back death from above

[lilac stag]

Go back to legion. Ffs

[opaque violet]

jokes on you, legion classic is coming

[lilac stag]

pvp if you want dfa

[tribal blade]

i'm kinda hyped on having premed again

feels good to strike from stealth+dance and gain full CPs

[vestal escarp]

A lot of stuff could go on the 45s clock with static cd

Since we're playing on that timer anyway

[tribal blade]

sectec should just be usable in dance

like you gain 1 charge of sectec when you enter dance or something

how cool would it be if it worked like that, and if you activated the first dance it gave you a second sectec charge since you extended the duration of dance

[onyx hare]

I really did like that idea of goremaw or something resetting Stec/sod/dance.

[tribal blade]

would make a lot more sense than what we currently have on goremaw's

[real panther]

Guys! I never know that.. when you sod, does it boost your previous applied ruptures?

[hazy breach]

Yes

Same with dance and all the other damage increases we have

But likewise if you apply a rupture during sod, the +10% boost isnt active for all of rupture, its just active during sod

[fringe steeple]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger
• Deathstalker mark nameplate border