#subtlety
manic island
keen dome
Poison toggle is coming, too.
manic island
i'd settle for doing the same damage as 3 button paladins
merry agate
Vial de-poison for affix 
empty plume
They’ll make crimson vial a light offensive CD so that we have no choice but to use it offensively
pliant topaz
crimsom vial buff
the pickpocket stuff push keeps talking about is coming
surely
a pleasent surprise
merry agate
the pickpocket stuff push keeps talking about is coming
Wasnt that shadowlands?
pliant topaz
exactly
keen dome
What pickpocket stuff?
keen dome
A cool idea.
manic island
no thanks
merry agate
It was in like one shadowlands rogue announcement or something
lilac stag
Hi @pliant topaz hope you’re having a good day bud. 
keen dome
I quit mid-SL so I missed a lot of it.
pliant topaz
Hi <@639956635300790285> hope you’re having a good day bud. <:feelsloveman:58798...
thanks bud! you too! what a great day we have today
lilac stag
TC assa. Way less stressful. Hah
pliant topaz
:^)
can you tell me why symbols condition being symbols <=8 vs symbols<=10 is a 10 k dps difference
sub really works in mysterious ways doesnt it
lilac stag
sub really works in mysterious ways doesnt it
That’s the sign that you all force a playable apl and let blizzard tune around it. Fuck trying to min max this spaghetti disaster.
alpine wraith
it is a funny minigame tho
crystal spear
Do you guys think sub will be good after next week
Thinking of jumping ship
Change scares me
lilac stag
No it won’t.
crystal spear
😭
barren plume
Yea what the disappointed one said
pliant topaz
number wise itll be a bit better than it is now
lilac stag
Assa already in a better starting spot and getting way more thought out changes.
barren plume
Assa already in a better starting spot and getting way more thought out changes.
Blizz gave a lot of thought into the changes for sub too. Then said ahhh fuck em let’s fix mage pally and shaman again
lilac stag
Only thought given was delete dust. ChatGPT did the rest.
vestal escarp
Btw
edgy zenith
has anyone tested the changes? is it ass or? don't care about numbers
vestal escarp
on ptr sectech clones are still not interacting with singular focus?
edgy zenith
do you just end up holding 2 charges of symbols for sb window or?
how does that work?
lilac stag
If you enjoy trickster, you have 6 days. .
lucid lily
What? Fuu said we were going full trickster in 11.0.5
alpine wraith
yea you have to hold symbols
lilac stag
U enjoy backstab? 
alpine wraith
on ptr sectech clones are still not interacting with singular focus?
nope
and likely never will
because f you
by blizz
pliant topaz
on ptr sectech clones are still not interacting with singular focus?
take a guess
also its not clones only
its all of sectech
vestal escarp
aight
it is what it is
i reckon it would be a nightmare to code
the edge case of sectech proccing the last mark and clones hit before you spend DN
you'd have to hardcode their dmg into one SF instance before they even appear
pliant topaz
not really
u are just going based on the instances of damage done
and check the target vs mark target
cursive vapor
!wa
pliant topaz
then it doesnt do damage
simple check if mark up -> look for instances of damgae , no mark up -> skip
ez
they can do it for other abilites its not really different
their thoguht process imo is that "sectech is an aoe hit"
so shouldnt get funneled back
but then poison bomb does
it also gets spattred when ST doesnt get nimled
its straight up-> sin? we love you and you get everything dont even worry
sub? please stop playing the spec
ornate current
Creative with rupture ? Lets stop right there
Some of us still remember Nightblade
And the day they gave us back rupter and made it not intercat with anything
We were all so happy
ornate current
I swear wow class designe i just another circle of hell
pliant topaz
but the concept in ST was good
idk i wasnt playing the game back then, its what ive been told
pliant topaz
@tepid trellis what did u think of nightblade
idk to me it seems a lot more interesting
ornate current
Like i said circle
ornate current
have you heard of fazed debuff?
Sec tech exists
To spread it at least
Still not as bad as nightblade was
Bot even close
pliant topaz
idk, pooling cps for 5 seconds doesnt seem like as aweful as u make it sound
ornate current
I wake up in a cold sweet just thinking about it
quiet steeple
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
pliant topaz
just pool for 5 seconds when youre supposed to swap and done
ornate current
Imagine a boss that has adds spawning and you dont deal dmg do em unless you apply rupture to each one
Now that sounds cursed
solemn lance
So the current trajectory is nerf sub next week until it disappears?
hazy breach
A slight buff
hazy breach
Numerically a buff, gameplay and defensively a nerf
solemn lance
I wont hate on the gameplay until I play it but I actualy really enjoy the way the dust build plays unfortunately
ornate current
We going trickster or DS next patch ?
manic island
i thought DS was horrible
ornate current
Ok time to abandon ship
jaunty heath
scary coup moment #4
solemn lance
Nah gotta play it when it goes live before you can give up
solemn lance
started by backup plan a few weeks ago in case 🙂
ornate current
Nah gotta play it when it goes live before you can give up
jaunty heath
i dont like deathstalker
only abd thing about tricktser is coup charge
and bad defensive i guess
the feint 10 % more is useful though
jaunty heath
but i wont play this spec after next patch 
manic island
moon viewer 
wispy pebble
im just praying next patch will feel better than what it is right now. Else idk what ill do
hazy breach
wispy pebble
<:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
dont tell me its ass please
hazy breach
I wouldnt say its better
wispy pebble
Does it feel better though
wispy pebble
i stuck with trickster. DS is even more dull
wispy pebble
cool so i will level dk this week i guess
do we have any rotation breakdowns already?
iron spear
if the rotation is like the current rotation for the brew version, it should be super simple
pliant topaz
young path
In an effort to self soothe my pending disappointment, I’m trying to wrap my mind around the 2 min w/dust output vs 1:30 no dust and new symbols talent
Is it fair to say dances with either build remain about the same? I may be off but my beer math oriented brain has it about the same (I’m equating more symbols and extendo dance to balancing out the lack of dust with regards to cooldown reduction toward dance)
I do see big impacts to sec tech and cold blood however and trying to wrap my mind around the play style vs current
(Just thinking aloud)
Eager to see what you heavy hitters come up with for optimal rotation in the coming days
little epoch
is it possible to play Sub without transmitter ?
void hound
well yeah
pliant topaz
In an effort to self soothe my pending disappointment, I’m trying to wrap my min...
your question is unclear
are you saying if hte playstyle is similar to current db?
eh but not really
young path
I guess to put it another way, if dust gave u 30 sec back towards dance in that first 1:30…. What will the new playstyle return in the same time when factoring in SoD talent and 4 seconds longer of first dance?
ornate current
What about sec tech? How does it feel without cdr from dust ?
pliant topaz
okay thats a really hard answer thats why we use sims
ornate current
Do we get it back without rng gods
pliant topaz
because realistically you cant count it
but i can tell you what the playstyle looks like given 100% uptime and WFT
ornate current
Or is it cringe now
pliant topaz
yeaah u do
if u sectech first finisher in dance
first dance
and have wft and 100% uptime
else no
u miiss 2nd sectech in 2nd dance
lilac stag
void hound
💀
alpine wraith
well getting BIG CRITS
time to make the clips again as that will be the only thing left to do
uneven scarab
Also with ds, you always hold dn for dance?
pliant topaz
Nope
uneven scarab
Just send?
pliant topaz
Kinda but not really u also need to be aware of when sectech is up so u can actually fit it in
But also think about when your next cd set is and if you’re gonna have enough dance charges and sod charges
Then sometimes u send both. Sometimes u only sod, sometime u do neither
pliant topaz
But it’s okay I found a 0.2% gain today that makes sectech stuff a bit easier too’ we are so back
Sheimply flag rupture sod dance strike sectech then blades
alpine wraith
you forgot to bug sec tech too
pliant topaz
Then u get a 2gcd intermission between dances then dance again. 16 sec is long enough to still cover both dances since u started later, but now also sectech is in a better spot in 2nd dance dm wise, and u get 2 DN in 2nd dance
I swear that doesn’t work
I have never been able to replicate it
hazy breach
Tier seems fixed too
alpine wraith
really sadge
it worked 1 week ago then hey they are fixing things!
maybe they fix mark
alpine wraith
the tier set one
pliant topaz
Nah the supercharger one
pliant topaz
Like it’s changing effective cps. Which has no impact on the clones since
It’s not dynamic
alpine wraith
only the prepull shit
pliant topaz
Yeah only pre pull
glacial hinge
question we use mandate within any cd's? specificly?
alpine wraith
with lingering darkness up
glacial hinge
we dont use it with trickster?
hazy breach
Trickster has no cd that buffs it
Use it whenever as long as you dont mess with your transmitter timing for burst
vale pine
Nah the supercharger one
did they hotfix anything?
hazy breach
i think symbols gives it 5% crit
Yes but that also means youre not autoattacking or casting backstabs to extend symbols, so its kind of a wash
Since the trinket has a cast time
vale pine
a follow barlow fan
azure mauve
time to make the clips again as that will be the only thing left to do
eviscerate crit on nyalotha never forget
clever delta
anyone else having issue to log in
alpine wraith
possible server went nana
pliant topaz
Yay getting ready for 11.0.5 already! So exciting
rugged condor
my guild is reaching silken court on the anniversary patch. gotta wait and see what spec is good for silken timings with the sub rework
rugged condor
oh, ok that's good to know
pliant topaz
Except tricksters a lot worse now
hazy breach
Assa is good as well
DPS is also kinda irrelevant on that boss
Not completely, but its very close
rugged condor
yeah ive been playing sin for the first 6 bosses, might just stick with sin for silken
pliant topaz
Good idea
alpine wraith
you also get to skip playing the transmitter minigaem
golden totem
until you get mythic transmitter
idk if i wanna loot this one
idk if i wanna switch sin next week on queen tho
wispy pebble
Im really close to using conracr instead of mandate or transmitter. Two use trinkets piss me off
sinful sluice
is anyone else on 15/16 treads stacks?
Maybe forgot to loot one?
lilac stag
Do not cast blasphemy against the Madqueen
wispy pebble
Are there "guides" already on how sub will play next patch? Id love to read one
pliant topaz
soon
pliant topaz
yea
alpine wraith
im still coping there may be changes
pliant topaz
same
alpine wraith
but i likely will make new ones this weekend if no changes
they did fix tier set so at least there are signs of life
whole cypress
Lol i am only blue, but at least i`m consistent xD
exactly the same buttons xD
9dps difference
wispy pebble
Today i realized again that im decent at single target bosses while sucking big ass during add phases.
Ansurek i top the damage meter until platforms. Not even sure what im supposed to do with the flag sb window there
graceful crown
i use it on the add b4 the platform
and usually have it by boss
or even at 2nd platform
alpine wraith
in ansurek you wont parse if people delete adds
wise oracle
are ppl running trickster or deathstalker now on ansurek
alpine wraith
but getting a 90 or so should be possible
honest dome
just hold it and dont care about p2 dmg
alpine wraith
holding it is also a problem
graceful crown
keep in mind a fury warrior with bladestorm will always oneshot everything b4 u can even say anything 
alpine wraith
because you are missing a whole cast
as you get it back for p3
if you want to parse hc you kinda have to join a boost group
because they have 15 people dead
so you can get dps on p2 interphase and also p3
honest dome
guess it depends on how fast you are overall, our p2 ist like 40sec
nvm i looked at the wrong phase xD
wispy pebble
in ansurek you wont parse if people delete adds
Well we are in hc and the adda just insta die or i cant hit because of pull. Sadge
But yea i used it on the add before first jump so i had it up for when we got up. But the add died so fast it probably did nothing
I feel like in general sub just has quite the issue with swapping targets a lot. Or maybe im just bad at it
pulsar quarry
Target swapping isn't the greatest due to hero talents. And ofc if you don't have CDs it's a bad time
fallow nimbus
I use flag/sb on first platform adds in p2 and get it ready a few secs after reaching the top
mystic widget
contract+transmitter, or mandate+transmitter? first pairing sims higher for me but i see a lot of people running mandate
my gut just says contract on any amount of cleave, and mandate on pure ST bosses
vivid cobalt
also if we get thaurissan trink wonder how it'll work
hoj? lol
plush roost
Most successful cd usage in p2 for me is blow all cds on the beam add, and shadowstep last second to an ally or the melee add before wrest goes off for uptimr
Then theyre up for p3
And you're not losing
And you get decent value
May lose 2-3 dance globals because adds die too fast
Is what it is
edgy zenith
if your group isn't awful, best idea is to just send on second platform
sprint past everyone and pop evasion with tricks on tank for spiders
and blast the shield add before anyone can get up there
but if your group isn't awful, you're NEVER doing good dam
so you should jsut hold and send on boss lmao
or just send flag natty on first platform
then you'll get an extra vanish for last phase
hoary orchid
guys a quick question, is black powder the best aoe option or just single target for flurry cleave?
wet echo
edgy zenith
5+ targets you BP, but in all honesty, just full ST. you're never doing good overall, just get good prio dam
some things never change. black powder is banned from being pressed if you're ethical gamer
hoary orchid
ty
vale lagoon
man i still can't wrap my head around the sims for deathstalker
it's not any different from trickster in a +11 key lol
sinful sluice
Chest vs sholder mythic on vault
Should go chest right? Dont think i can kill mythic obvinax tho
grave mist
whats the ideal situation you'd nimble flurry cleave over black powder in aoe?
still quartz
lilac stag
Should go chest right? Dont think i can kill mythic obvinax tho
Take chest, buy boe shoulders.
sinful sluice
ok thanks
damn these boe gears cost way too much rn
probs should wait out for them to come down a bit
mythic boe ring costs 490000 gold haha
limber wind
anyone have a focus kick macro that lets you kick your current targhet if you dont have a focus?
lilac stag
mythic boe ring costs 490000 gold haha
That’s cheap. Shit is 900k NA
barren plume
CT gives energy regen right
sinful sluice
xD
just started wow this season so im broke af
idk how but some ppl tend to have like billion golds on their accs
we dont roll dices but do actions for items instead so they just take every gears with golds
mighty delta
how are u guys timing SD on broodtwister? hold cds til adds pop?
fickle sequoia
Hey guys i was playing subelty Rogue for this Patch and i realise that the damage is on the lower side.
what do you think about the next patch
will it be higher up damage wise
lilac stag
!dot5
wicked joltBOT
The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a downgrade.
Things that get worse in the patch:
- Talent diversity
- Defensives
- Gameplay
This does not meant he patch is bad, just that it isn't a great update to Subtlety.
fickle sequoia
nah thats crazy the spec is already at the bottom somehow and they make it worser
plush chasm
fickle sequoia
that how i feel infront of my pc
hazy breach
The numbers are going up marginally
lilac stag
marginally when you can play the current highest boss dmg spec in the game with 
plush chasm
They hate to see a shadow dance enthusiast on top
fickle sequoia
u think worth changing spec after farming full hero gear for sub
fickle sequoia
They hate to see a shadow dance enthusiast on top
this is what caught me
lilac stag
assa don’t care about secondaries
fickle sequoia
still strong u say
lilac stag
Can play it in whatever you have. Ilvl be king.
fickle sequoia
guys is there not anybody who wants to keep me awap from changing specs
i feel like u all are holding a door open for me
man sometimes when my friends say my damage is shit i dont understand why
plush chasm
I think subtlety is the meta as far as coolest spec, for what it’s worth 🔥🔥
lilac stag
You’re playing a spec that’s only really good in heroic because you can compress CDs. That’s gone in 6 days.
fickle sequoia
I think subtlety is the meta as far as coolest spec, for what it’s worth 🔥🔥
speak up
vale lagoon
The power level of the spec stays about the same but the changes are generally a...
man this is kinda sad, how we're still saying "oh doesn't mean patch is bad" bro the patch fucking sucks
0 bugfixes
fickle sequoia
You’re playing a spec that’s only really good in heroic because you can compress...
man thats frustating
vale lagoon
like i absolutely don't expect them to rework sub, but at least make our questionable talent tree work as the tooltips say
like what
lilac stag
Welcome to being a sub rogue
plush chasm
I just want them to give us better hero talents tbh
vale lagoon
we must be losing like 10% overall dmg in m+ from these bugs
lilac stag
just 
fickle sequoia
You’re playing a spec that’s only really good in heroic because you can compress...
so u say enjoy the last 6 days and then spec over
plush chasm
*just* <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
💀💀 I should rephrase that as “id be happy if theyd start with” rather than just LMAO
lilac stag
Do whatever you want. Numerically and gameplay wise the spec is shit.
plush chasm
so u say enjoy the last 6 days and then spec over
Subtlety is over, go home
fickle sequoia
Do whatever you want. Numerically and gameplay wise the spec is shit.
bro im geared good i would say and i sweat like shit at raid bosses and i still can hit damage others can do
i like the spec atleast when my Cd are up
but man the downphases and the damage is cringy
lilac stag
That’s how sub should be
plush chasm
Meanwhile, the wretched scaly class is permanent 
vale lagoon
flatline specs goated in m+ tho
rly wouldn't mind the "boring" sub if it means having passable numbers and getting our bugs fixed lol
i remember hearing something about them fixing some big sectech bug right at the start of dragonflight
the guy who introduced me to this server told me about it
old venture
Meanwhile, the wretched scaly class is permanent <:Spell_Disintegrate:1045144279...
it's just a skill expression the rest of us can't fathom
vale lagoon
STILL the pet damage stuff lmao
fickle sequoia
rly wouldn't mind the "boring" sub if it means having passable numbers and getti...
wait u say start of dragonflight
vale lagoon
i think
fickle sequoia
hold up how long are there these problems
lilac stag
they'll tell you how hard it is too
Elemental shaman rotation. 
fickle sequoia
dont tell me the spec is shit since 4 seasons
vale lagoon
but ig times change
old venture
i remember hearing about how we used to get bugfixes in previous expacs
it was literally 1 expansion of bug fixes
fickle sequoia
if u cant find one guy that holds you back
old venture
prior to DF sub would sink or swim in the beta/alpha cycle
fickle sequoia
sometimes u need to admit defeat and go on
old venture
ask the OGs about BFA sub 
vale lagoon
OOF so this is just going back to normal?
lilac stag
Usually sink
vale lagoon
oh i played legion and bfa
plush chasm
it's just a skill expression the rest of us can't fathom
I forgot to add in the 
vale lagoon
just not SL and most of DF
old venture
where they deleted shuriken combo because of 1 boss in battle for dazaralor and compensated sub with exactly absolutely nothing for the rest of the entire expac
vale lagoon
but were we buggy in legion/bfa?
lilac stag
This is shuriken combo 2.0
vale lagoon
i just thought they gutted us for a single boss
and it was all tuning issues
not that half our nodes dont work
plush chasm
where they deleted shuriken combo because of 1 boss in battle for dazaralor and ...
This is why I stopped playing sub originally LMAOOO
old venture
legion sub my sweet sweet love
lilac stag
This spec is always buggy as fuck
fickle sequoia
ok guys im a little traumatized and i think i cant make a good decision with this head
lilac stag
DFA was a happy accident that played around bugs
fickle sequoia
so guys for 11.0.5 Outlaw or Assa
plush chasm
I started sub in legion and just want it back
old venture
do you enjoy high apm or low apm
old venture
I started sub in legion and just want it back <:pained:836055328109232128>
PREACH IT FROM THE ROOF TOPS
PLEASE
I'LL SELL MY KIDNEY FOR IT
vale lagoon
do you enjoy high apm or low apm
is it a matter of preference at all?
the OL bros are kinda dooming too no
lilac stag
assa does everything. Outkaw is zoomer spec capped at 5 targets
old venture
outlaw is a flatter damage profile so if you like big numbers and I'm assuming you do because sub has a lil bit of burst (lol, wtf did they do to this spec)
I'd recommend assa
plush chasm
PREACH IT FROM THE ROOF TOPS
BRING BACK THE ABILITY TO SAFELY JUMP FROM THE ROOFTOPS
old venture
plus if they ever decide to actually compensate sub for sucking a huge bag of donkey dicks
you'll have 2 daggers
lilac stag
There worst thing they could do is flat aura buff. Just let it rot and start over at zero.
fickle sequoia
Guys is here actually anyone left playing sub rogue
lilac stag
No
fickle sequoia
and Assa is the way to go if i got i right
lilac stag
Unless they hate their raid
plush chasm
Ive seen a few in PvP, but thats abt it
vale lagoon
There worst thing they could do is flat aura buff. Just let it rot and start ove...
but why is it so hard to just fix the numbers on nimble flurry lol
it's so strange
old venture
There worst thing they could do is flat aura buff. Just let it rot and start ove...
we did that in SL and got black powder
lilac stag
That’s one issue… of like 20+
vale lagoon
i think that's big for M+ lol
old venture
honestly, from the initial release of our hero talents it's been a disaster
it's wild so many hero talent trees are uninspiring or broken messes given that its a fucking expansion feature
vale lagoon
i can't help but feel like trickster feels decently thought out lol
but it's just fucked by bugs and base sub
lilac stag
vale lagoon
idk
old venture
the only viable explanation is that they rushed it out the door
but even then
idk what the fuck they were thinking
vale lagoon
compared to deathstalker, i feel like at least every node is useful in trickster
hazy breach
Theres already 2 other buffs to track
old venture
vale lagoon
i mean "never parry" is good tho
hazy breach
Why did we need a third
vale lagoon
me like :(((
lilac stag
old venture
they could've just made it a passive that made you unparryable
hazy breach
Ye but why does it need to be a debuff on the boss
With almost full uptime
But not quite
So you need to track it
And not accidently miss out on 15% dmg with finishers on coup
for no reason
vale lagoon
ehhhhhhhhhh
lilac stag
ChatGTP dev design
vale lagoon
i mean that's not nearly as bad
as trying to use darknest night in m+ trash pulls...
hazy breach
compared to deathstalker, i feel like at least every node is useful in trickster
How many times have you used the distract node 
old venture
poopstinker 
vale lagoon
How many times have you used the distract node <:kek:365510869557444628>
LOL but at least im not stuck putting a point into fatal intent man
i swear deathstalker is propped up by like
4 nodes
4 and a half maybe
old venture
deathstalker is also propped up by them buffing the ever living shit out of all the damage
because it's just bad
lmao
vale lagoon
true
horrible mechanics
like
while the ret is reating like 7 million dps with 1 button
on a big lust pull
old venture
the spec's been finishing at max-1 for ever
vale lagoon
we're sitting there pressing evisc like a chump
old venture
"fuck it make them use a builder at max-1"
hazy breach
But ye idk, deathstalkers BP does more damage in sims than ingame but i cant figure out why. From what i call tell everything works like expected in simc, so it seems more like theres something funky going on ingame where it doesnt get certain modifiers
vale lagoon
bcuz darkest night
old venture
- someone at blizzard
hazy breach
we're sitting there pressing evisc like a chump
Well ye its the assa tree
Just like trickster is the sub tree
and fatebound is the outlaw tree
old venture
listen guys they tried really hard okay
hazy breach
Needlessly complicated, just like sub
vale lagoon
like this channel wanted, i think
vale lagoon
i just saw someone being madge about bp a few messages ago
but like
yeah flurry is bugged to kingdom come
i guess
and then sectech
sigh
hazy breach
No idea what distract node is doing, no idea why fazed exists and no idea why they couldnt just make coup unproccable outside stealth/dance
old venture
I miss the old sectech bug where acro's increased range didn't work on the clones
so you'd hit your initial hit and miss every single clone attack
vale lagoon
I miss the old sectech bug where acro's increased range didn't work on the clone...
LOL oh yeah i remember my friend bitching about that!
i just made sure to step before sectech every time
but i think they fixed that eventually right
or am i tripping
left ledge
No idea what distract node is doing, no idea why fazed exists and no idea why th...
thank you for the feedback
here's a change that shouldve happened in s3 DF
hazy breach
Maybe next patch theyll fix replicating bug
left ledge
hazy breach
In 11.1 that is
old venture
real talk, I think the issue is they don't know wtf they want sub to be
left ledge
which one
vale lagoon
yeah by like midway through s3
so ur saying i should cancel my sub now, come back in s3 when the spec is not literally glitching out of existence?
old venture
so ur saying i should cancel my sub now, come back in s3 when the spec is not li...
well if it makes you feel any better they fixed the action bar delay for dance in DF
hazy breach
so ur saying i should cancel my sub now, come back in s3 when the spec is not li...
Well theyre introducing more in the upcoming patch
old venture
that only took like 6 expansions
hazy breach
So not sure thats going to work out
vale lagoon
Well theyre introducing more in the upcoming patch
HAHAHAHAHA
more bugs?
we already found them?
hazy breach
Supercharger doesnt buff shadowed finishers
vale lagoon
???
old venture
they just need to cut the cord on the old engine and write one from scratch
vale lagoon
god
old venture
they print money every expac on the same engine
they just pretty it up, make some tweaks, and then those tweaks lead to even more bugs
because this engine would've graduated college 4 years ago if it was a person
I'll tell you I don't envy current wow devs
you're sorting through over 2 decades of spaghetti trying to nail a problem
and when you fix it, it creates like 8 more because everything's so convoluted and overlapping
vale lagoon
...kinda a fucked up thought
but like
so what you're saying is that if what happened to that anime studio thing in japan happened to blizz
like physically burned all their servers down
it'd be a dub for us in the long run?
maybe freak storm wrecks the building while everyone is home for christmas break or something?
vale lagoon
oof
old venture
ye
left ledge
if they built a new one to succeed it
old venture
it'd cost way too much for them to justify it
old venture
cause like at the end of the day, the game functions really well for a 20 year old engine
hazy breach
they just need to cut the cord on the old engine and write one from scratch
Just like with sub, but it aint happening 
old venture
Just like with sub, but it aint happening <:pepehands:757566347558387803>
why don't they just go back to wod sub
like honestly
make dance windows the end all be all of your damage
and if you fuck it up, sucks
hazy breach
Why does the game try so hard to prevent me from being able to lining up symbols+sectech+dance everytime
old venture
because sub has like a million different things with different CDs for... reasons
frank bobcat
imagine if they added sec tec cdr to symbols of death
old venture
and as much as I hate dust, we now lose our only control over it
frank bobcat
problem solved
vale lagoon
Why does the game try so hard to prevent me from being able to lining up symbols...
ngl, why do they try to hard to make us give a shit about symbols in the first place lol
like i remember back in legion
wasn't it just like
slice and dice replacement
maintenance buff u macro into everything?
hazy breach
imagine if they added sec tec cdr to symbols of death
Or just deleted cdr
old venture
also I hope whoever decided to bring back snd got fired
frank bobcat
that too
hazy breach
So our rotation could make sense all the time
frank bobcat
just make shadow dance grant a stack of sec tech
pliant topaz
But ye idk, deathstalkers BP does more damage in sims than ingame but i cant fig...
i swear it does not. I just tried it on rekill for ovinax. tis thing is not doing damage
old venture
@pliant topaz hi ur cute
hazy breach
Sectech could just have 8s cd and only be usable in dance
vale lagoon
Sectech could just have 8s cd and only be usable in dance
omg, a stealth-only finisher
old venture
sectech being usable outside of dance makes absolutely zero logical or thematical sense
vale lagoon
that'd be fking sick
hazy breach
i swear it does not. I just tried it on rekill for ovinax. tis thing is not doin...
What? You mean that it is doing less right
vale lagoon
stealth bar finisher
vale lagoon
i swear it does not. I just tried it on rekill for ovinax. tis thing is not doin...
imagine if BP has the exact same thing flurry does
like only tooltip is buffed
kek
old venture
imagine if BP didn't fucking suck
frank bobcat
imagine if BP spread your rupture
vale lagoon
imagine if pressing BP gave you 10k gold
old venture
might as well, they seem to love to cake in cleave for literally every other spec in the game
except for sub
fuck sub ig
left ledge
best you can get is a tooltip that says 50%
but does 40%
and doesnt interact with your cd
vale lagoon
KEKW
old venture
vale lagoon
or your main finisher
oh, flurry is bugged with sectech?
pliant topaz
<@639956635300790285> hi ur cute
not as cute as you i love oxi so much on god
old venture
not as cute as you i love oxi so much on god
Are you going to miss me when I go to mexico tomorrow
pliant topaz
What? You mean that it is doing less right
yeah like its legit not doing damage
vale lagoon
HAHAHAHAHAHA nice
old venture
I aint ever coming back, imma sell coconuts on the beach
thick cedar
DS M+ spec listed here, is anyone else struggling with ST in M+ ?
left ledge
this spec would be like
hazy breach
Idk did they accidently aura buff the wrong thing for BP or something
old venture
Idk did they accidently aura buff the wrong thing for BP or something
whaaat? that would never happen
left ledge
it would probably be top 3 spec
vale lagoon
Idk did they accidently aura buff the wrong thing for BP or something
oh, what if it's like
buff doesn't apply to shadowed finishers
because fuck shadowed finishers amirite
old venture
@hazy breach they would surely never buff the wrong thing
pliant topaz
Idk did they accidently aura buff the wrong thing for BP or something
okay we do a little math yea? this is the very first set of eggs
my tool tip says 186k bp
without dance
vale lagoon
<@212854714197344256> they would surely never buff the wrong thing
so like the actual devs at blizzard is less competent than some guy setting up their own platers
or what
old venture
they love reusing assets/spells
pliant topaz
dance on its own is like 42%, sod is 10%, tier is 16%
old venture
so like it's a crapshoot if you're buffing the right thing half the time
old venture
for example, flurry:
vale lagoon
so like it's a crapshoot if you're buffing the right thing half the time
but how come they can't even make sure they're buffing the right skill, while we can figure out shit like OUR flurry being bugged?
pliant topaz
Are you going to miss me when I go to mexico tomorrow
I already miss u tbh
vale lagoon
it's almost like they have a responsibility to fucking test a change and make sure it works
left ledge
but
old venture
HOW THE FUCK IS IT DOING SO LITTLE THEN
if I had to pull a theory out of my ass, someone probably fucked up a period in the wrong place for the exponential scaling with the soft target cap
spring torrent
does anyone know if raidbots sims focusing lens and ascension embellishments properly? for some reason when I sim them they differ by over 10k damage
vale lagoon
i swear, worth ethic is fucking dead here in america
spring torrent
but everything says they should be very similar in dps
old venture
but how come they can't even make sure they're buffing the right skill, while we...
By offloading it on PTR and having us QA test for them
video games is legit the only industry where people line up to do actual work for free
vale lagoon
By offloading it on PTR and having us QA test for them
that's sorta what i mean lol
like they have a duty
to playtest and make sure they are buffing the right skill
but the word "duty" doesn't exist in modern america so whatever i guess
go have a beer for sitting in your office playing tetris 5 hours a day blizzard bros
u earned it!
pliant topaz
actually idk, maybe its doing its intended damage?
because math says it should do 27M physical damage
old venture
actually idk, maybe its doing its intended damage?
well blizzard is notorious for wrong tooltips
it's very possible
pliant topaz
then if u assume 17% dr from armor reduction
it becomes 22.4
which is very very close to what i got
so like, maybe this shit just doesnt do damage LMFAO
left ledge
can they just remove this spec from the game already
vale lagoon
so like, maybe this shit just doesnt do damage LMFAO
wait so how come sims are saying it does dmg
left ledge
or will they delete a diff sub rogue id
vale lagoon
im confused
old venture
it took 13 years for assassination's mastery to affect things you would think it affects based on the tooltip
left ledge
hmm
old venture
can they just remove this spec from the game already
wdym they did
left ledge
does mastery work with sectec
old venture
hazy breach
My BP damage was like 10-15% lower on 5t dummies than my sim said, and did like 5 attempts of it
old venture
So idk, i couldnt see what was wrong
skill issue tbh
frank bobcat
turns out the buff was 25% not 35%
old venture
you didn't press black powder hard enough
vale lagoon
hope he's okay
old venture
short radish
pliant topaz
nah I started in DF pre patch
vale lagoon
WAIT but that massive layoff
do we even know if the ones who's talked to this server are okay?
old venture
yeah I think realz is still lurking
but blizzard has gone hands off in direct communication
vale lagoon
:((
old venture
the layoffs were mostly QA people (lmfao) and that one studio they bought to help finish dragon flight
pliant topaz
probably, sometimes i feel bad cuz man we've been dooming a lot in sub
and im like if I were him i woudlnt read here
old venture
it is what it is
it's a bfa angle, spec into the other two you enjoy the most
and pray
vale lagoon
i can't help but feel like we're overly harsh on trickster
old venture
well we nicknamed deathstalker: poopstalker, poopstinker, deathstinker
vale lagoon
if we can just fix the 3845797534 flurry bugs and make base sub cds a bit more comfortable
old venture
left ledge
it's a bfa angle, spec into the other two you enjoy the most
yeah but
bfa sub was kinda fun
shit
but big eviscerates
old venture
rip s4 bfa
left ledge
gameplay loop wasnt bad
old venture
that was a fun time
left ledge
in .5 though
pliant topaz
BIG SECTECH
old venture
yeah it just had negative AoE
pliant topaz
why am i spamming tiny evis
old venture
why am i spamming tiny evis
because fuck you that's why
you're still gonna pay your $15 a month because you're addicted
frank bobcat
maybe a dumb question - is queens mandate really unlikely to crit?
old venture
<a:PleaseUseThisWave:590363613219520522>
vale lagoon
maybe a dumb question - is queens mandate really unlikely to crit?
isn't it more that we build no crit
and just rely on talent nodes to have spells crits lol
old venture
i mean im seeing crits well below my paper doll crit %
might be a by product of the actual trinket, cause like it puts a buff on you. But it might just be the actual trinket design itself
stone raptor
man reading this chat is depressing lmao
brisk onyx
old venture
it's my fault, I quit the game and sub got abandoned (jk it got abandoned before I quit)
left ledge
i wish i quit
old venture
I came back and did some keys
and I managed to beat a 620 enhancement shaman on a normal boss
at 604 ilvl
vale lagoon
man reading this chat is depressing lmao
...wait until you get into a fucking key lmao
playing with a human being on frost or ret
stone raptor
lmao imagine getting into a key instead of just getting ignored bc you play sub
ahahahahaha.....
vale lagoon
LUL yeah i only do keys with guildies
and sink deeper and deeper into despair as my ilvl grows but my dmg doesn't increase exponentially like everyone else
stone raptor
yeah, the guys I normally play with have been busy
and it's rough out there fior a g
old venture
yeah playing something you enjoy with pugs is a bad time unless it's bonkers
cause they're never good enough to compensate for playing the worse spec
vale lagoon
i can't wrap my head around sin tho
old venture
and sub's just rough
idk how they even fix it ngl, idk if the bug fixes even fucking do anything
old venture
it's just not great atm
stone raptor
I get sin, I just dont like it anywhere near as much as sub
and like... why play if I can't play the class I like lmao
vale lagoon
idk how they even fix it ngl, idk if the bug fixes even fucking do anything
i mean there are a LOT of bugs to fix no
stone raptor
I'll just keep being mildly salty about how shite sub is and try my best to have fun despite it
vale lagoon
if they ALL got fixed i feel like we can maybe at least be middle of the pack
like, viable but not decent?
stone raptor
and then get mad that ret out dps me with 3 buttons lmao
old venture
ngl if middle of the pack after the plethora of bug fixes is where sub is at
that's still fucked
because there's SO much wrong
vale lagoon
i mean no matter how many bugs you fix
old venture
with the amount of bug fixes required to actually smooth it out, it should be top tier lmao
old venture
and then get mad that ret out dps me with 3 buttons lmao
bro idk how ret survived the last 2 seasons of DF
it was absolutely NOT okay how much damage it did
with how simple it was to play
stone raptor
I dunno man, blizz just knows its main audience
left ledge
ngl if middle of the pack after the plethora of bug fixes is where sub is at
im pretty sure
if they ONLY fix trickster bugs
we'd be middle of the pack
stone raptor
to be entirely fair
trickster
does get
a permanant flashing red jpeg of a swiss army knife with 'So Trickey'
and that's really really cool
so what else could we possibly ask for
vale lagoon
actually tho trickster getting extra value from inev is unironically cool imo
good design even if sometimes ur having to backstab in full aoe
but man, imagine we give up flag entirely
for the ability to also CDR shadow blades
haha
just full outlaw
how angry would ppl get
pliant topaz
it unironically gets shot in the head
left ledge
dont look at your screen
pliant topaz
im down
based
this is 2 ovinax kills
one its me as DS
one is as trickster
its like barely ahead on the super paddy ones (first two)
then just nose dives on not so paddy ones
left ledge
bro
vale lagoon
trickster dead
even in keys?
left ledge
its good
vale lagoon
sucks
pliant topaz
what i dont get is DS is supposed to be better even on 3
left ledge
and it doesnt interact with my hero talents
pliant topaz
wtf is oging on over tehre
left ledge
i love when i press coup of grass in my cds
and it DOESNT do 20% extra shadow damage
when that happens
i feel so fucking good
ugh
stone raptor
the damage is part of the animations
and since coup has none it gets no dmg
it just makes sense
pliant topaz
and it DOESNT do 20% extra shadow damage
why should it
left ledge
yes
vale lagoon
im surprised there isn't also a bug where shadow blades extra dmg doesn't work with singular focus
left ledge
goremaw's bite
left ledge
i mean
there's been nothing new
new abilities at least
sepsis maybe works with it?
idfk
left ledge
idk why they're removing sepsis now
stone raptor
hype
vale lagoon
bcuz they didn't know what to replace it with before, but now that they're giving sin extra stacks of shiv
we get to pick up some scraps from the table too
left ledge
can we actually
vale lagoon
vale lagoon
no make sin spawn a 750 ilvl transmitter or main hand in their inventory every time they cast mut
that'd make the game fair
pliant topaz
nah imma be honest, how the fuck is bp at 14 targets doing barely more than trickster
its breaking my brain
vale lagoon
you know, i have a thought tho
with the chinese wow server coming back
do we maybe have a chance again
pliant topaz
OKAY ACTUALLY NEVER MIND I JUST REALIZED IM STUPID AS FUCK
left ledge
nah imma be honest, how the fuck is bp at 14 targets doing barely more than tric...
probably because they gutted it so hard in df they'd have to buff it by like 100% and remove its energy cost to make it do anything
pliant topaz
probably because they gutted it so hard in df they'd have to buff it by like 100...
NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
vale lagoon
like am i fking delusional or were there stats that the chinese servers played rogue more>
pliant topaz
u know the math i did and i was like, its doing the damage it should?
pliant topaz
bro i forgot to add in crits
i just assumed 0 crit and i was like yeah makes sense its correct damage
pliant topaz
plot twist
40% crit
this shit is not doing damage
no shot the 35% is in
32% extra crit damage
vale lagoon
so the buff isn't actually in?
left ledge
but i wouldnt be surprised
vale lagoon
no shot
pliant topaz
no idea
its not doing damage though
like my math was that okay its doing correct damage given 0 crits
but i had 41% crit chance
vale lagoon
LOL
pliant topaz
at 233%
pliant topaz
so like its actually doing like 40% or more less damage
vale lagoon
fucking twilight zone game development
how are these people real
they're literally coding on a potato or what
like imagine if ur watching a marvel movie
and like 40 minutes of the 2 hour runtime is just the actors in mocap suits becuz they forgot to add the effects
is that not what sub is rn????
pliant topaz
no idea but this is funny af
vale lagoon
no idea but this is funny af
you're laughing
left ledge
i miss the days of when we would sit here
vale lagoon
our precious 35% buff is not working and ur laughing
left ledge
and speculate cool changes for sub rogue
vale lagoon
im going to cry man
left ledge
the days when
vale lagoon
shaking and crying
left ledge
i was horny for sectec to be good
vale lagoon
gonna piss myself soon
teal night
I mean they kept the nightstalker bug in for the entire run of DF so yes we are in the twilight Zone
left ledge
and then we got a good sectec
vale lagoon
I mean they kept the nightstalker bug in for the entire run of DF so yes we are ...
wait wat
left ledge
WE SHOULD HAVE JUST STUCK WITH THE GLOOMBLADE BUILD
teal night
But it's still a bug they kept in
pliant topaz
my problem is, THERES NO SHOT BP IS DOING CORRECT DAMAGE
stone raptor
"just say we buffed it, the 100 ppl actually playing sub won't notice"
teal night
Shit sucks