subtlety

[vale pine]

you need the new crests to get higher

but in order to get them#

[alpine wraith]

nah maps are a scam

[vale pine]

you need to complete 9s

now 9s are out of reach

[alpine wraith]

yea but im capped on gildeds already

unlucky

[vale pine]

which means

you stick to 7s

7s are hard but not insanely hard

[cloud rover]

Ye

For casuals its really weird

[vale pine]

so you have a gigant pool of palyers in the 7 range

[cloud rover]

You dont have a real gear progression

[vale pine]

and also because people are somewhat capped on gear

item level is what you mostly decide on when creating a group

[gritty knot]

@vale pine I think they will change that soon honestly. A lot of ppl are talking about this issue

[vale pine]

in the end, each class has at least one good performer to play

but this isn't only a problem at this level of play

[prisma stump]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger

[vale pine]

now lets say we go to the next group

people who managed to go up

do 9s/10s

they improved in gear

and now have the next see

10/11s

[alpine wraith]

i dont get invited to 9s

but i get invited to some 10s

[vale pine]

the step from 11 to 12

is insane

so now people gear up

and get stuck at 10/11

[haughty mural]

getting into 9s is impossibru it seems

[vale pine]

so there is the next see

[haughty mural]

10s ez

[keen dome]

I saw someone make a good point about gearing today. Hero and Champ gear is identical in power. Because both hit 619 off Hero crests.

[vale pine]

and just like in the 7 see

you will invite based on item level

class is not a problem, each class has a good spec

so unless you see like a sub rogue

you cba

and 12+

is so big of a step up

you start to see the typical high key shananigans

can only play like 1-2 tanks

only certain healer, certain dps prefered

but what the system creates is

a actually less meta focused enviroment

[cloud rover]

The thing is also

[vale pine]

if you stay in the see

[cloud rover]

Why should i upgrade my Hero track item

[vale pine]

yes

[cloud rover]

when i can craft an item to 636

[vale pine]

crests are a big issue

[cloud rover]

90 is a bit

low

per week

[vale pine]

its basically

one crafted piece per week

[keen dome]

Yeah

[vale pine]

its designed to be slow

and for 9s

you get the worse risk/reward in them

thats why nobody runs them

can just run a 10

[keen dome]

Yeah - at least a failed run there is still vault.

Sorry, untimed run.

[cloud rover]

The 15 second affix

[alpine wraith]

i mean i can understand ilvl but also luck plays a big factor

[cloud rover]

is just dumb

[alpine wraith]

im 626 but some people in my guild are 631

[vale pine]

thats just classical wow

e.g. i run 100+ delves

[alpine wraith]

i get 1 map

AAAAAAAaaA

[vale pine]

and i didn't even see all slots drop

[alpine wraith]

dont remeind me

[keen dome]

There's also the final two steps of Hero pieces, where 623 is actively wasting 15 gilded to do. Which is a failure of this design imo

[vale pine]

don't have the 10 map achivement

etc

so e.g.

[alpine wraith]

i still have kiss of death

[vale pine]

streamers love to say

[alpine wraith]

as my on use

[vale pine]

if you play delves only

you are gifted

619 item level

i highly doubt that

[vale pine]

yes

the problem is

[alpine wraith]

well usually if you only do delves you also have access to lfr and weekly content

[vale pine]

how its designes is to reduce upgrading to the minimum

[keen dome]

Yeah.

[alpine wraith]

and timewalking did vomit so much champion and 1 hero track piece of gear

[vale pine]

fair

[keen dome]

It also makes Champ and Hero pieces functionally identical (Champ caps at 619, hero effecitvely caps at 619 if you aren'tg etting gilded).

[alpine wraith]

but yea i find weird the cadence of gilded upgrades

[vale pine]

exactly

that was my point with the image

[alpine wraith]

i did some math and unless i get lucky in vault

[vale pine]

you now devalue heroic gear

[alpine wraith]

and get loot from later MYTHIC bosses

[vale pine]

but make upgrading normal gear a pain

so the gearing process is

[alpine wraith]

i wont get full upgrades EVEN IF I HAVE THE ITEMS ALREADY(not possible realistically) until like december

[vale pine]

"get 619 in each slot"

and then try to upgrade stuff once you get mythic or craft to max mythic

[keen dome]

Adjusting Hero to take Hero Crests up until 626 would be a good solution, imo.

[alpine wraith]

yea then you get hc gear and it is like

do i waste gildeds¿

or wait for mythic

and when you drop mythic you upgrade it to 639 or craft 636

and those other items WILL STAY 619

for a long time

[keen dome]

Yep

20 ilevel gap is so massive.

[vale pine]

exactly thats the problem

your gearing caps out, and you are potentially crest limited

[alpine wraith]

going 623 or 626 is trolling unless trinkets

that you know you wont be able to get better ones

like for sub mandate and transmitter

[cloud rover]

Thats the issue

of 6 myth tracks now

instead of 4

[alpine wraith]

also crafted is 90 crests

[plush roost]

Could alleviate this by making hero 8 levels, with 5/6 being runes crests, and 7/8 being 629/632 gilded. That way when you get a myth piece you aren't "wasting" those crests as they'll be discounted (unless your myth drop is higher than 632)

[alpine wraith]

so you can eventually un unluck yourself

but it will take longer

[cloud rover]

Ye 90 is crafted and to upgrade a myth track to 636 is 60 crests

[keen dome]

me brain stupid but if we had hero go to 626, that'd make it return to 4 Myth steps right?

[cloud rover]

that doesnt add up to me

[alpine wraith]

basically if you are luckier you get lots of mileage from crests

[vale pine]

exactly

[alpine wraith]

hence some people have so much ilvl on us unlucky

[vale pine]

you have heroic track almost useless

[cloud rover]

Well you had 4 myth tracks in amidrassil

where the 1/4 myth track was 6/6 Heroic

[vale pine]

because normal can upgrade all the way to where you get as heroic player

and mythic is only a small upgrade on heroic pieces while too expensive

[hazy breach]

Well no its 75 crests to upgrade myth 1 > myth 6

[cloud rover]

Ye but 636

is myth 5

[alpine wraith]

yea he means you send 30 crests to the nether

if you craft

[cloud rover]

yes

[alpine wraith]

but you kinda have to do it

with how gatekept M gear is

BUT

if you are lucky and get lots

[cloud rover]

If you upgrade a 1/6 myth track to 636 its 60 Crest
If you craft a 636 its 90 Crtests

[hazy breach]

Sure i guess

[vale pine]

you can boe farm mythic

a lot of guilds do so now

[alpine wraith]

you save 30 crests every time

[vale pine]

so 2 slots

[alpine wraith]

3

[vale pine]

whats the 3rd slot

[alpine wraith]

ring

[vale pine]

oh

[alpine wraith]

I myself plan to buy ring and shoulder

when they go down a bit

[hazy breach]

Theyre actual BoE now

So you can just buy em

[cloud rover]

The ring is also good for sub

Vers mastery

[alpine wraith]

yea

I HAVE THEM IN MY SIGHT

but

bit pricey

although they are dropping in price SUPER HARD

for the non tertiary ones

[vale pine]

just my 2c

spending 3M on a gear piece

isn't improving the gear situation

even if you don't need to

[alpine wraith]

i think non tertiary are way cheaper let me check

yea they are 750k and dropping

it has been 1 day only and this is on my server

other servers have even cheaper ones

[iron spear]

have you just farmed so much gold or did you buy/sell wowtokens for gold?

[alpine wraith]

I have around 70m right now

but i dont like to spend a lot

[keen dome]

[alpine wraith]

i learnt my lesson in bfa

[keen dome]

That's a lot of cool pets you could buy

[alpine wraith]

where i spent like 20m in BoEs

just for them to get nerfed

next week

[cloud rover]

The ring

[vale pine]

https://tenor.com/view/tedlasso-yikes-gif-27201348

[cloud rover]

exceeds my gold

[alpine wraith]

then another 30 in masterful/honed mind afterwards

[cloud rover]

I have 2 Million

[alpine wraith]

right now i should have made more enchanters/incriptors

to use concentration on

LW/ENgi is not going as fast

[cloud rover]

Ye

[alpine wraith]

im selling the res items quite well tho

[cloud rover]

You mean enchanter Jewel

[alpine wraith]

I need someone good to make a video about the engi pots of power

no inscriptor is making like 100k in vantus runes

with concentration every day

or more

[cloud rover]

wtf

[alpine wraith]

i mean JC and enchant are almost the same

[cloud rover]

[alpine wraith]

or even better

[keen dome]

Yeah I do about 100 - 200k atm casually atm

[alpine wraith]

for my enchanter im setting up authority of the depths

[keen dome]

Just tossing my advert out between pvp matches, is ncie and chill

[cloud rover]

Im just too lazy

TO make multiple enchanters etc.

I have two

because masks were a good acuity thing

[alpine wraith]

im even lazier i just set this one up 2 days or so ago

i usually only play my rogue

[pale python]

Hi, I have a question regarding the rotation and burst window. I am familiar with the Deathstalker and Trickster rotation, and I know that Deathstalker should have 2 Dances within the initial Burst, and Trickster can push for 3 Dances. I also know that you should cast Vanish between CDs for Deathstalker and Vanish right after Technique for Trickster. However, I notice that there are several top rogues with 99 or 100 parses that are just going full 3 Dances, Vanish right after the first Technique, no matter if they are in Deathstalker and Trickster; they don't care about this single Symbol of Death, instead waiting to align Symbol with Dance and Technique together, so my question is, does the rotation guides are accurate or rotation for a sub is more flexible. Can you adjust it to your needs? I'm trying to follow the guide patterns, and my logs still suck, getting way behind others...

[alpine wraith]

you can triple dance as deathstalker but it is not ideal

depending on boss some mechanics can happen at 40 secs or 60 secs

that make you skip that dance anyway

so you send on pull

and skip the dance when that shit happens

like ky veza or sikran

[pale python]

ok, thanks a lot @alpine wraith thats clarify more for me

[alpine wraith]

yea raid bosses have their things

[graceful crown]

how's it going

[night depot]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[tribal blade]

you can adjust for your needs, but also getting good parses is a bit of a meme because a lot more than just your rotation goes into getting a good parse

so sometimes you'll see top logs that are playing the spec wrong, but because they were in a group that killed it at a certain speed, or had half the raid die so they could pad on adds, or got 0 mechanics, or rng'd crits they get an incredible parse

[pale python]

Yea I notice that mostly it cames for whole team with high overall damage and the fight time. Shorter the fight, higher dps I can keep at the end of the logs

[tribal blade]

someone posted in here earlier asking how did this group of people all get 99s on heroic ovinax with an 8 min kill timer

and i took a closer look at the log, and on pull within ~10 seconds half the raid died to 1 shots

because it was a sale, so they made all the carries die on pull to not fuck up mechanics

[alpine wraith]

yea hc logs are super funny

[tribal blade]

and then the people carrying could full pad on adds the entire fight and get insanely good logs

when usually the adds would die twice as fast with everyone alive

[pale python]

lol

thats a quite cool insight

[tribal blade]

i used to be a big parse monkey, but i've chilled out on it now

obviously parses are a decent indicator if you're playing your spec right

but you get assigned to a terrible job (like i did doing immune bombs on sarkareth)

and it's literally impossible to get a good log

so take that what you will 😉

[wispy pebble]

Also getting good logs for classes that are played less is a bit harder because those classes are rarely played casually. And sub dmg is quite reliant on burst phase so if timer is unlucky the boss dies right before flag and sb are up again

[pale python]

ok, i guess I will change my attitude also when it comes to parses, lets just keep if the boss is dead or not 😄

[tribal blade]

yeah this is a good attitude

maybe just look into it if you're consistently getting gray parses across the board

[wispy pebble]

Man i was so happy getting transmitter out of vault but Jesus christ its annoying to use during opener

[tribal blade]

the warr on my raid team msg'd me during ovinax prog to bitch about transmitter haha

trying to use transmitter on broodtwister is so bad

[alpine wraith]

let me tell you a secret

move your char in a 180º angle

suddenly ball or soak spawn not in the meaty ass of the boss

[raw ivy]

honestly at the begining i hated transmitter but with time its easy to use, you can anticipate it and make it pop where you want

[wispy pebble]

On ansurek it was really annoying because she moves quite a few steps on start so i couldn't hit during collecting

[pale python]

hahah, yea, finish for this orb or this stiupid platform is demading on the burst window

Im mostly stay at the back of the boss and angle my camera like 45* angle just to spawn orb next to me

[fierce cedar]

oof new build sims better in all scenarios for me

[cyan lion]

!ui

[wicked jolt]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by fuu
• Method - by Stealthi
• Icy Veins - by Oxi

[cyan lion]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger

[plush crescent]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hard wren]

too much haste on tier this season

sub left to die

[hazy breach]

[hard wren]

I reroll assa

[craggy quest]

[fierce cedar]

play sub anyways

[mental comet]

[craggy quest]

I tried to play assa and just don’t enjoy it at least on ST

[tribal blade]

they can put haste on every single tier piece so long as they fix our spec

[fierce cedar]

i like assa i just feel like sub atm

[mental comet]

Sin feels 10x better in keys but 10x worse in raid

Vs sub

[craggy quest]

I wonder how dummy thicc the spec would be if all the important bugs were fixed

[alpine wraith]

quite a bit better

[fierce cedar]

what do we play in raids even

many of the fights need cleave. do we go trickster or ds on these

[mental comet]

Fury warrior

[fierce cedar]

oh

fair enough'

[mental comet]

Ds on sikran rashanan and princess trickster for rest

[alpine wraith]

think DS is better on ovinax now too

[mental comet]

I think they removed adds from logs and they should insta die anyway

[alpine wraith]

and i would not play DS on rasha

[mental comet]

Would u not

[fierce cedar]

when i check the logs i pretty much only see trickster lol

[mental comet]

Idk the adds die in 1 millisecond

[craggy quest]

Would the new m+ build be good for m ovinax

[fierce cedar]

top log on rash is a ds tho

[mental comet]

Trickster is just more fun to play even if it’s worse idk

DN sux

[fierce cedar]

now that we have a better build for aoe

is it time to go ds on courts

ik its 2 target but there are adds too

[alpine wraith]

it is more dps for warriors to go arms

and other classes st

than for you to go DS instead of trickster

[fierce cedar]

all i know is that trickster > ds 2 targets

[alpine wraith]

our war did like 120m more on boss than me XD

the idea is that you get cleave for basically free

while losing like 2% st

or less

but if your comp has lots of aoe sure go DS

we are going to be on the always show me anyway

if it makes you feel a bit better

[steel heart]

Our state is depressing tbh, I try to be positive but its hard to cope 😅

[knotty totem]

Are the anniversary patch changes look like they gonna buff us?

[fallow nimbus]

Nope

With anniversary patch all 2min trinkets will be yikes for the future

[graceful crown]

im gonna be honest i check this chat daily at this point hoping something changed

LOL

[mental comet]

[fallow nimbus]

I don't think we will see more good 1.5min trinkets. A powerful 3min trinket could be good

[graceful crown]

i like how a fucking buff of all things made this spec worse

a buff

ruined a spec for me

like it's crazy to me

[fast surge]

which buff

[graceful crown]

the bp buff

making DS over trickster

[fast surge]

was wondering if that would be the case

[tribal blade]

the buff was warranted, but they threw it in last second to apease us

and not do further digging into what's wrong with sub

it's basically kind of like they went "oh sub has some issues, slap big buff on BP because that's their aoe finisher, that'll make em happy"

[hard wren]

idea to fix sub: turn every finisher into a a DOT so they benefit from haste

[fallow nimbus]

Just bugfixes would do so much

[hard wren]

I just fixed the whole spec with this one ide

[fast surge]

throwing a meatless bone into the kennel of a starving puppy

[graceful crown]

thing is, i will probably still play trickster, but im in a guild where they want you to play the best so you can do your best, and now having trickster be worse in every situation than DS is just

discouraging as hell

idm playing DS in ST

but in aoe it feels so TRASH

[tribal blade]

if they truly wanted to do meaningful changes like they did with sin they would have fixed nimble flurry too

[graceful crown]

honestly im so fucking shocked it's bugged

[tribal blade]

because that issue goes hand in hand with sub's aoe problem

[graceful crown]

lmfao

[hazy breach]

I mean you can play it exactly like before, there was no changes to trickster

[elfin saffron]

that's what im doing. life goes on (even with all the shitty bugs they should fix)

[graceful crown]

that's true, just annoys me that there will be some freak calling me a troll cuz i dont play what wowhead says is the bis

cuz that's the state of wow rn

[hollow cobalt]

Do you macro transmitter with flag ?

[raw ivy]

i do

[graceful crown]

not a bad idea actually

i can see that being a bit funky with dust tho

[fast surge]

nah I pop it earlier so I can grab buff/jump last time just as I pop cooldowns

[graceful crown]

this

[fast surge]

you can also pop it in stealth before pull

[raw ivy]

when you'll get use to transmitter you'll finish each game just before first sechtech

[hollow cobalt]

Yeah i play dust trick

[graceful crown]

i like dust

but i think im the only one who does

[raw ivy]

the better spec

i mean

[steel heart]

Dust smoothens the issues

[fast surge]

I thought I'd hate it but I actually like it too

[raw ivy]

the most "funny" to pay

play

[fast surge]

would like to see less downtime still tho

the burst vs chill periods are a bit too extreme

[hollow cobalt]

I dont know if i give the trinket its own bind or macro it with something

[raw ivy]

use it to spread rupture in m+

[hollow cobalt]

A macro would be easier for me

[fallow nimbus]

Current dust is just straight forward with extra benefits if you want

[fast surge]

auto-thistle is going to be so obnoxious :/

[graceful crown]

like once your fingers get used to the rotation, it's really fun

and your fazed will remain for multiple casts of coup without issue

and casts of fully empowered ST

[fast surge]

https://tenor.com/view/ch0colatchaud-burst-gif-21178804

when that ST lands with all buffs active

[hazy breach]

Liking dust is not an extremly niche opinion

[graceful crown]

dude, i've had like 12-15 flawless form once

that 3 mil per strike on ST

😩

thing is, dust trickster is sooooooooooo good in burst

but once that bursts goes away

you can sit down there with the tank

LOL

[steel heart]

At least you can stun mobs for 7 seconds

[fast surge]

yeah. thats what I mean, pooling energy & backstabbing is so slow

[graceful crown]

i've gone up to like 8 mil dps and then straight down

[hazy breach]

Dust doesnt really increase your burst

It just makes you do it more often

[graceful crown]

in aoe

not st

obviously

[hazy breach]

Ok, my point is exactly the same

[raw ivy]

Dust i interesting because its more flexible

i mean on certain raid boss with certain mech

you can do your CD at 1:00 on a key moment if you want

[hazy breach]

Ye and its been deemed too complicated and too powerful so its getting removed

In order to simplify the spec so we dont need a spreadsheet of when to send cds for every boss, that also varies based on the week and your raid cds

[half comet]

can we make a dust with a halo role whe nit sgone

dust misser

[raw ivy]

thats half true i mean i dont know what you really think about that

[half comet]

[hazy breach]

Dust is fun on progress but absolute horseshit on farm is my opinion

Might aswell have the spec be fun all the time

[raw ivy]

what do you mean by on farm you mean for the reclear?

[half comet]

ya if the ywant to add more complexity prob a better way of going about it in the long term

[hazy breach]

Yes

Oh the fight is 20 seconds shorter than before, guess i have to move all my cds and rethink everything

For every boss

Every week

[raw ivy]

But

inst that the goal of the game?

or do you want to just press one bouton whitout thinking

like a bm do?

[hazy breach]

Brother'

[spark tusk]

It is an interesting dilema on progress and in pugs honestly

[steel heart]

you are comparing two extremes there

[spark tusk]

Like it's fun to be doing a boss with a pug

[raw ivy]

yeah that was on purpose

[spark tusk]

realizing it's about to die and I still have a vanish charge up

[hazy breach]

Removing dust doesnt make the spec easy

In comparison to other specs

[raw ivy]

thats true

[spark tusk]

so I can decide to use them both

[hazy breach]

I dont want to have to preplan the entire fight

[spark tusk]

AND it's not a trivial decision on how

[hazy breach]

Every week

And if somebody dies and the timings are off

[spark tusk]

like, do I just vanish now to pull things? Do I do the Flag -> Dance/secTec/symbols THEN vanish blades?

have to think about it based on the siutation

no longer do we have that

[hazy breach]

Doing that is fun during progress, but i dont want to do it every single week

Or every other/whenever we get the buff increments

[raw ivy]

i understand

i just think that this flexibility was a really cool tools

[hazy breach]

ye and its really OP

[spark tusk]

Yes, and doing it every single week is not something I experience as I have no dedicated farm group. Every boss kill feels somewhat like prog to me, if only because it's always different with a different group, even if it's a one shot the timers may be different and I have to react dynamically, not preplan differently. Sometimes it's a shitshow and timers are bad for cds, sometimes it's great. It's the situation I've been dealt So I recognize my experience is different from someone with a set group every week needing to plan everything out

[hazy breach]

Just like shuriken combo was too OP during zul, so theyre removing it

[spark tusk]

I've come to appreciate dust for what it does, it isn't what makes the entire spec fun for me. It's also hard to say what I'll find fun with the changes in the 0.5 patch because I haven't played with them

removing dust doesn't make me dread the spec, it is a neat thing I've come to enjoy that I'll lose but it's not the primary reason I'm here to begin with so I'm not too torn up about it

[hazy breach]

.5 gameplay still janky as before, just with new janky stuff

[raw ivy]

the thing is : whitout dust we have just 2 choice left DS or trickster and they are apparently not even balance

[spark tusk]

The major thing I don't like about dust is it takes a defensive / utility spell and, by turning it into an offensive cd, removes it as utility. Same discussion as imp garrote on sin, vanish no longer gains its utility as a mark emergency recovery or as a way to evade mechanics

[raw ivy]

i am really bad with DS DB and i dont really know why

[alpine wraith]

yea how easy it was to have prep

but OH NO MORE BUTTONS

[raw ivy]

^^

[alpine wraith]

same with trickster and unseen blade

if i had a spell i had 3 stacks of for ex

i would be so much happy

than OH NICE A RESET

said no one ever

[hazy breach]

Not having dust also means longer cd on cloak/evasion, theyve also removed shadow dance from soothing darkness 💀

[alpine wraith]

and from fade and cloaked

[raw ivy]

thats a pain

[hazy breach]

So we have no passive dr and no passive healing

[spark tusk]

I don't mind more buttons as long as they're on the GCd because the cadence of pressing them is fine for me to personally manage. Having a ton of buttons that are off GCd means fingers are at the mercy of krangling

[hazy breach]

Very neat

[alpine wraith]

yea imagine having something to be hyped about

like tempest

or colossus one i forget the name

[hazy breach]

or well, i guess the DR after dance talent is still a thing

[spark tusk]

I feel I should know this answer but

Is vanish immunity still a thing?

No right?

[hazy breach]

Nop

[alpine wraith]

nope

went away in like WoD

[spark tusk]

Like in classic I remember vanishing uh

[alpine wraith]

or before

[spark tusk]

Lich king when we killed it

when LK does the "kill everyone" spell

that was neat

[lunar arrow]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vale pine]

not sure if thats a problem right now

it feels like you either just burn your charges

or play it regular

[hazy breach]

Well ye its less of an issue right now because there no good 2 min trinket like ashes

But its likely to arise again

Or it would be rather

[vale pine]

ye

i think dust is just

the potential to be bad is there

so rather change it

i still don't think the complete removal was good

[fierce bobcat]

guys we playing deathstalker in raids and also in m+ now?

checked it before i typed here but aoe means m+ right?

[haughty mural]

spec cant catch a break

[empty plume]

Why does tornado not max out cp during blades

[nimble burrow]

i feel like sub is a little bit weird rn

idk whether its my gear issue or the spec number issue, like i used all burst skill in the game but i cant fight against sin

[hazy breach]

Because it purposefully doesnt work with blades so we dont use tornado in singletarget :^)

Yes its silly, but thats the reason

[alpine wraith]

yea basically fucked over the spec because of this aoe talent

then it is also horredous in aoe

because of other things

[sly shore]

Speedkills we had to essentially predict the kill timer and plan around that

and then we kill it 30s faster then expected and it's fucked

[vale pine]

tho thats fun, no?

[sly shore]

not if you had planned cd's for a completely different timer

[vale pine]

well ye thats not that great

but wouldn't be that big now

[sly shore]

na now it's just press button

[vale pine]

because of how we line up cooldowns

and is my main point

the positive arguments for the dust removal is the potential to not have this optimization problem

but the problem wouldn't exist

if we had no 30 sec gap between flag/blades

[muted agate]

delete fuckin shuriken tornado!!!!!!!!

[fallow nimbus]

It's like trying to solve a problem but in the wrong way, like removing your car engine but from inside the car instead of opening the hood

[vale pine]

i think dust removal is fine

[knotty depot]

I'm less unhappy with dust removal know that everything is moving to a 1m30 cd

[alpine wraith]

you made me mad again about tornado and blades

i already forgot about it

[knotty depot]

rather than the first iteration of flag every min and blades every 2min

it felt too much like assassination

[fallow nimbus]

With 1.5min cd tornado doesn't even fit anymore

[fierce cedar]

i do 0 damage in dungeons i swear

[keen dome]

Death to tornado

[knotty depot]

I don't do M+ as sub and tornado is one of the things that makes me really not wanting to

only sub in raid

[fierce cedar]

i only use tornade when i can spam dust after lol

nevermind read wrong lol

But tornado can die plz

[lilac stag]

@tribal blade & @haughty mural my full on took Mad Queens over the special neck.

[keen dome]

We're gonna get such blessed change notes this week. It's gonna be perfect.

[alpine wraith]

dont worry that neck is a lie for sure

[knotty depot]

[alpine wraith]

also yea we are getting for sure 3% buff

to shadowstrike

[keen dome]

nah

full 3% to everything.

[alpine wraith]

oh true to storm

[keen dome]

from the weekly raid buff

[alpine wraith]

120% buff to storm

[haughty mural]

respectable

i got weak

[lilac stag]

I figure that’s the one item I won’t replace until we hit ce so yolo

[alpine wraith]

yea i also got mandata hc

now only need transmitter

have been having atrocious luck with mandate tho

almost 0 crits

[lilac stag]

I have both. Now I just need Sub to not be dog water

11.0.5

watching Kush in keys yesterday. Hilarious how it’s still so far behind assa.

[haughty mural]

yea

to be fair he also trolled and made some weird talent setups

but yes its really far behind

[vestal escarp]

Gj kush

All according to plans

[wise badger]

I don't have assa gear 😦

My dungeon slice is only 200k above my sub sim

[hazy breach]

well theres almost no difference between sub and assa gear

Esepcially on aoe

[limpid lynx]

dear friends , is there a weak aura that indicates shadow binding ritual knife debuff to cloak ?

[fierce cedar]

my highest damage in dungeons is rupture...

[uneven scarab]

[fierce cedar]

i think ill put my rogue on the shelf for now

maybe its better next patch.

[haughty mural]

thats drastic

[charred sandal]

could be controversial, but i dont dislike tornado as a whole, would like if they fixed it or even replaced by something cooler rather than deleting it completely

[uneven scarab]

Needs to be replaced, causes more problems than good

[charred sandal]

having a button to press that is not storm and BP gives dopamine to brain

[alpine wraith]

if i told you best use of tornado right now

[sacred yarrow]

pray for our brother as he leaves us in these trying time 🥲 🙏

[alpine wraith]

is to cast rupture 4 times

what do you think

[uneven scarab]

Yes

Replace it

Exactly

Thats terrible

[haughty mural]

press

evis

[wise badger]

Critical strike? I dunno I have a lot of trouble generating CP's in the 5 dummys

[charred sandal]

u the shuriken combo guy

[hazy breach]

It doesnt matter nearly as much as you'd think

[haughty mural]

no

you just have to use DN

(:

[charred sandal]

ye my point would be, i would like if they replaced or fixed cuz having something else than storm bp its funnier, not entirely ditch the idea of having an AoE button for bursting

[charred sandal]

propaganda

[alpine wraith]

our AoE button is dance as sad as it sounds

[uneven scarab]

Just make shuriken tornado convoke 2.0

[alpine wraith]

that would be funny

[uneven scarab]

It would be funny and epic

[alpine wraith]

imaigine just shitting finishers

for 5 secs

[uneven scarab]

Tell me that doesnt sound kinda fun tho

[upbeat escarp]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[alpine wraith]

it would be

[charred sandal]

just make it killingspree 2.0 with shadowstrikes

[charred sandal]

and sectec but ye

[rigid pasture]

is there any reason to play sub in any pve content atm?

serious answers only

[alpine wraith]

not really

[rigid pasture]

aight thx

[grave abyss]

do you enjoy playing sub?

[uneven scarab]

If you enjoy the spec

[charred sandal]

if you like it 💀

[uneven scarab]

[alpine wraith]

or wait if the kill timer of a boss is around 1:50 or 3:20 more or less

it is better than assa

just remember to also crit with mandate

[rigid pasture]

so like 2 weeks before next raid tier

[alpine wraith]

or the great HC bosses

kekw

[kindred thunder]

!transmitter

[wicked jolt]

The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png

[dawn trellis]

would you guys still play trickster on ansurek or swap deathstalker

[alpine wraith]

depends really

would bp on the webs on p1? quite a waste

trickster free cleave is so good

[dawn trellis]

yeah thats what i figured i feel like bp is still a trap on her, so even with the recent knowledge trickster just feels right for being able to efficiently hit everything

[onyx hare]

Trickster + dust + pretending they didn’t change anything this week is bis

[alpine wraith]

you can try DS on some bosses now ovi nax is a good one others it is whatever

and in m+ some people have tried

[vale pine]

i found trickster still more comfortable to play

[hallow saddle]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[onyx hare]

I didn’t give DS a fair shot but, for how good trickster feels I’m fine leaving damage on the table tbh

[wise badger]

Trickster is just better. I'm not swapping to DS to spam BP tbh

[vale pine]

fair, i feel the same

but i feel like playing sub also leaves damage on the table

when assassination is noticable better on the fight

[onyx hare]

Don’t say the quiet part out loud fuu

[uneven scarab]

i hope blizzard realized how much of an issue this is

why play sub when sin better in 95% of cases

[onyx hare]

100% of cases let’s be real

Except like stitchflesh, Dust Sub kinda pops off a bit there in comparison

[uneven scarab]

Idk i think sub still kinda owns hard on court

but yeah

its enough to be kinda ridiculous

[alpine wraith]

sadly not for long as other specs get more gear

and we get PATCHED

[uneven scarab]

Yeah anniversary kills our court swag

[alpine wraith]

expect sub to be on always show me when patch drops

[uneven scarab]

so fun!

[alpine wraith]

well we would be snapped in 2 anyway by fdk/spymasters

[uneven scarab]

idk i kicked my fdk’s ass on heroic ovinax the other night

Full hard pad trickster

Felt good

But you are right yeah

arcane spymasters billion damage execute

Is insane

[onyx hare]

Tbh that is probably just a shitty DK player

[uneven scarab]

Nah hes actually really solid but he gets really pissed off on that fight and idk why

[jaunty umbra]

just proc reaper's mark bro

[hazy breach]

Princess down

[uneven scarab]

[haughty mural]

[keen dome]

hell yeah, congrats

[hazy breach]

I did play assa though

[haughty mural]

[pliant topaz]

despairge

big gratz! its now silken and sub time pog

[hazy breach]

I did almost 150k above the highest sub too 💀

[round latch]

gz man!!

[pliant topaz]

im not worried, theyre gonna see how down bad sub is and buff shiv for sub by 35%. surely thatll fix it

[keen dome]

5% buff to backstab damage

If you are behind the enemy and only then.

[uneven scarab]

Nah they’ll buff blades you know that spell that doesnt interact with half of our core kit

[alpine wraith]

i think kieron and stealthi went assa for princess

so eleem reigns supreme

as the assa bronzer

from sub town

[light imp]

why are rune-branded armguards better than the Vambracers?

[alpine wraith]

no idea what those are

[light imp]

Venting Vambracers are engi crafted wrists and have a single primary stat and a tinker slot, Rune-branded armguards are LW crafted and have a 50-50, they are on the "overall bis" list on wowhead

[hazy breach]

Theyre the same

Except you can put embellishments on the lw ones

[light imp]

ahh

[alpine wraith]

yea im using the engi ones

bit more mastery

[vale pine]

nicuuuu

congrats

[wispy pebble]

Is there an alternative talent i can take instead of shuriken tornado?

[tropic pier]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[soft summit]

No there isnt. I did an 8 dawn with sub which I have played exclusively since Shadowlands. I did 800k dmg. Did an 8 dawn with my pally alt that i've barely ever played and did 1.3 million dps

[uneven scarab]

800k is definitely low for an 8

I do like 1.3 mil in 6-7’s

[soft summit]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HnFwVkr4hJb2D9PC#fight=1&type=damage-done

[uneven scarab]

Hmm

[soft summit]

Actually this is better.. this is the #1 rogue in the the US whos logged an 8. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2rQyL9qVvWzhMjPb#fight=17&type=damage-done

[uneven scarab]

Oh im dumb, i thought you meant overall damage

Not dps

[dry plank]

saw your log, doing r1 as best performant rogue spec and still fuk alot behind enha with 90 parses feels bad man, gratz with kill anyway

[analog grove]

hey there i have abig question

how mush is usually the damage difference between coup degrace inside the SD and outside of it

[alpine wraith]

quite a lot

but if you mean holding coup

that one is way less

[analog grove]

Ye im talking about this one

out of cd and stuff

is it more 2-3m damage

or less

sometime i hold it for 30sec

which i can make it ready again

with Secret

[young path]

dust w/thistle tea huh?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r4RzSjLUT82Xks46fqMr1N

[topaz egret]

Don't talk smack about my legendary talent builds ever again. I am the self proclaimed Martha Stewart of builds.

Thank you.

[alpine wraith]

did you try ER reverb

that one is a goldie

[alpine wraith]

it is quite minor like i said

like 0,4-5%

[wispy pebble]

any shuriken tornado alternatives? If i have to play that talent again im legit rerolling

[shrewd lantern]

oh you overtook loktark

as #1 for public rogue kyvezas

[small crown]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[acoustic lodge]

I 2nd this

[tepid trellis]

news to me

[alpine wraith]

and i was wrong!

[shy ermine]

is that the big shiv talent build

[tepid trellis]

PI rat

log invalidated

[pliant topaz]

did it actually LMFAO

okay he only got 4

thats normal

youre just jelly

[half comet]

is there a diff between sin and sub for princess at all

[pliant topaz]

yeah one sec ill show u the difference

sub is here

[tepid trellis]

assa does more dam

sub is slighly tankier

but it doesent really matter

[tepid trellis]

nah a PI rat is a PI rat

if you get to the boss now

just play assa

[frosty bridge]

current situation reminds me bfa as well when assa\outlaw was just better

by a mile :x

[shy ermine]

surely sub will be back online with supercharger

[hazy breach]

We had 3 priests

[keen dome]

It's going to supercharge our posting abilities.

[uneven scarab]

[blazing cedar]

Make sub great again

[fickle sundial]

at least sub feels good to play

outlaw feels so bad

so disorganized and clunky

[steel zinc]

Ok

[fickle sundial]

it like they cut portions from 2-3 diff classes and glued them together

[vale pine]

you spelled subtlety wrong

[wispy pebble]

i think we play a different spec

[fickle sundial]

it’s better than outlaw

[uneven scarab]

what did they do to outlaw that it feels clunky

[fickle sundial]

by a mile imo

[vale pine]

ask about haste requirements in #outlaw

[uneven scarab]

okay well come on dude

besides having actual real stats for once

[fickle sundial]

rtb, bte becoming a dps finisher, focusing dmg during subterfuge, making vanish a pure offensive cd for subterfuge, endless bugs to trigger subterfuge, etc

[frosty bridge]

we really need big finishers to feel good again, bigger than assa now

[vale pine]

but tl;dr: you now need a bit of haste for it to work well

[fickle sundial]

make dfa baseline

[uneven scarab]

Outlaw has been that way for like 3 xpacs

has it not

[vale pine]

so if you have no haste, it feels not good

[fickle sundial]

i played for a tier in legion and BtE wasn’t like that, I don’t remember in BfA

didn’t play in DF

[uneven scarab]

yeah that i can understand but like the actual gameplay of it

i dont think changed that much

[fickle sundial]

all i know every time ive tried outlaw every xpac it’s felt worse and worse to me

[uneven scarab]

Bte has been that way since shadowlands i believe

maybe bfa

[fickle sundial]

it wasn’t like that in BFA iirc

[uneven scarab]

so yeah slands then

[fickle sundial]

pretty sure it was still the 4 second ranged stun

all i managed to do in slands was level

before i lost interest

[uneven scarab]

i played assa rogue mainly in shadowlands

Dark times

[fickle sundial]

i was a firm rtb hater from its conception though and i haven’t budged from that

[uneven scarab]

Rtb is what i like most about outlaw

tbh

[fickle sundial]

i looooved combat in WoD

so simple and satisfying in pvp

[uneven scarab]

hell no

[fickle sundial]

they went in a good direction with ‘outlaw’ besides rtb imo

gun stuff and grappling hook is cool

rtb was lame

it’s gotten more tolerable to use but it’s still just a drag

[uneven scarab]

idk i like it for the most part, i will agree it does have a bunch of annoying bugs tho

Is it still spam bte in subterfuge

[fickle sundial]

pretty sure

[uneven scarab]

i havent played it at all

[fickle sundial]

keep high ar uptime, keep good buffs, use vanish as an offensive cd to proc subterfuge for bte

[uneven scarab]

I do think that having a required haste amount probably sucks though

instead of it just being a decent stat for them instead of useless

[fickle sundial]

i mean it’s virtually nothing for HO build

[uneven scarab]

I only really played KiR

[fickle sundial]

Hidden opportunity is like 6%? That’s like one of the tier pieces and a ring

if that

[uneven scarab]

i played ho in shadowlands

and then never again

[fickle sundial]

you could flask it if you had to

kir is more

Like 16% or smth in there

but i want to interact with RtB as little as possible so id play HO regardless of my threshold

[dry plank]

We are so fuked that assa rogues discuss outlaw in sub channel?

[fickle sundial]

yes

tbf the original starting point was that at least sub is more cohesive feeling that outlaw

[graceful crown]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger

[half comet]

isnt sin only slight above wihtout pi

[shy ermine]

no

very few raids are using pi on their assa rogues

[trail dawn]

What is higher priority in Dance, Deathstalker mark or Shadow Technique?

[lilac stag]

OK, What's in the drinking water today?!?! at least sub feels good to play

[jaunty umbra]

DS feels good

[wind canopy]

If you have DN, always prio that over sectec

[keen dome]

I agree. It feels very smooth to play. Love dance, love pushing buttons.

[coral pier]

!fuu

[wicked jolt]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[trail dawn]

Thank you

[wind canopy]

Yeah, I wouldn't say the playstyle is awful aside from things like CDR on dance, naked symbols, or things like that

And the whole BP vs. cleave opportunities

[vale pine]

i think deathstalker dust is decent

the gameplay of sub isn't aweful, ofc it could be better

[vast bloom]

!log

[sick jackal]

wait so if i am hearing this correctly sub in m+ plays ds?

[alpine wraith]

you can try sure

[uneven scarab]

Trickster still feels way better to me

[sick jackal]

i am going pure sub

[uneven scarab]

Trickster dust has been the coziest

just bing chillin

[lilac stag]

Problem for me, not awful does not equate to good. It still overall feels less than good to me. DS and overcapping purposefully kills good for me.

[gritty knot]

did u just see the latest hotfix

now u get guilded crests from +8s

not +9s anymore

[keen dome]

Big win, big improvement

love to see it

[gritty knot]

its live already, just did a +8 and got the guilded crests

its like they overheard our conversation today @vale pine xD

[keen dome]

Owns

[sacred yacht]

Rejoice

[keen dome]

That's a really good change.

[thick temple]

I'm still catching myself up on the recent changes written here and by Eleem. It seems Deathstalker is the winner in AoE/m+ now?

As a generalization, I presumed ds was for single target and trickster is to multi target as it applies fazed to more than one target. Am I missing something? Are we still like multi target cleaving from a single-target priority kinda playstyle?

[gritty knot]

Coming later today

Mythic Keystone Affixes

Increased the duration of the buffs granted by Xal’atath’s Bargain Affixes to 30 seconds (was 20 seconds).
    Developers’ notes: We’ve been closely monitoring the impact of the bonuses provided by Xal’atath’s Bargain affixes, and we’re increasing their overall power level on players. We will continue to monitor the effectiveness of these buffs as well as the challenges these affixes present.
Xal’atath’s Guile now increases enemy health and damage by 10% (was 20%).
    Developers’ notes: With the increase to the buffs granted to players by Xal’atath’s Bargain we’re reducing the effectiveness of of Xal’atath’s Guile, to allow players to push deeper into the Keystone system with current item levels.

thats crazy too. from 20 % to 10%

[frosty bridge]

+8 drops myth crest now

finally

[keen dome]

Yeah, seems like it's just a solidly good change overall

Next up: poison toggle.

[gritty knot]

Surgeon Stitchflesh

Surgeon Stitchflesh’s health reduced by 20%.
Stitchflesh’s Creation’s Festering Rot damage reduced by 30%.

[pliant topaz]

im starting to feel like no ptr notes

and that scares me

[gritty knot]

finally 😄

[steel horizon]

Good changes

[alpine wraith]

they actually buffed stitchflesh kek

[pliant topaz]

vat

[alpine wraith]

spears dont stack anymore

[pliant topaz]

yeah but they made it a playable boss

[alpine wraith]

that is true

[pliant topaz]

instead of a cheese inshalla u have enough burst

[alpine wraith]

now you can do it in 3 mins

[pliant topaz]

not really. u can still 2 shot it imo

[alpine wraith]

well now you can still spear him every time he comes down

[gritty knot]

ye finally that boss is playable tbh

i rlly like all these changes

[pliant topaz]

u can spear other bosses now

[alpine wraith]

nah other bosses have too much hp for 10 secs of some extra dmg

to matter

maybe last boss

can you stilll spear a whole pack?

[pliant topaz]

it goes through stuff yeah

[crystal spear]

!wa

[wicked jolt]

Subtlety WA's:
Class packs:

Fuu's Luxthos's LE's

Kieron's Devlin's

Utilities:

• Shadowcraft refund sound trigger

[graceful crown]

i feel like at this point im just playing sub wrong, there's no way i dont climb even a little bit in dps after gear and shit compared to my peers

[alpine wraith]

yea a bit unlucky

our biggest highs are mandate and transmitter

[wispy pebble]

Is there a DN bug with it just not being consumed atm?

[graceful crown]

the DN meal in mcdonalds

[crystal spear]

anyone know how to make the shadowcraft refund sound effect louder?

[tender mica]

crank wow sound effects to max

go big or go home pal

[keen dome]

Replace it with a funnier sound like a foghorn or a duck quacking.

[tender mica]

personally like loud gun shots directly into my ear more

[uneven scarab]

manscream.mp3 everytime i get a shadowcraft

[tender mica]

HAHa sounds amazing

[uneven scarab]

[keen dome]

Gonna make my cheat death proc sound effect the wilheilm scream now I think about it

[uneven scarab]

LMFAO

thats an insane idea actually

Me too

[tender mica]

no way that isnt a WA already

[keen dome]

comedy option of forgetting you set it as that

and getting a big spook in a few days

[hollow cobalt]

Bro transmitter can be tricky on Ansurek hm ahah

[lilac stag]

Send it prepull

Smooths out the sus areas

[hard ember]

so proc stuff works in timewalking again (was for a while taht because level scaled down you never actually got procs), and even though they disabled the heart of azeroth active, the azerite traits still work

azerite tfd actually gives you a stack of danse which is kind of funny

the really really funny thing is convergence of fates procs roughly once every 10 seconds

[acoustic lodge]

What's a good alternative to ST in M+?

[hard ember]

to do more single target?

[acoustic lodge]

sukrien tornado

[hard ember]

if you're playing the new black powder stuff swapping silent storm and gottagofast shuriken storm for backstab and weaponmaster gave me 35k single and -12k aoe in the sim

oh if you don't want to play tornado i think tbh play trickster

and inevitability

tornado smoothes you over so much in aoe imo

[dawn plume]

is black powder good now?

[hard ember]

it's your highest dmg source in the build

you do evis on every tdn proc to put mark on which is weird feeling in aoe but like

i mean it does good prio

and you get a ctw for your troubles

[dawn plume]

should i play trickster or ds in m+?

[hard ember]

at least for me DS sims far ahead in both aoe and single now

[alpine wraith]

just put a point in veiltouched instead

[hard ember]

i really like how trickster plays personally

[dawn plume]

same

[hard ember]

what you have veiltouched already

[drowsy pivot]

I'm just getting back into Sub after a few years away. Not sure I'm understanding these paragraphs.
It seems to say that Trickster is very good because of Nimble Flurry,
then that Deathstalker is bad because it's bugged and tuned badly,
then that the Black Powder buff makes Deathstalker BETTER than Trickster,
then that Trickster is also bugged so it's only sometimes better.

So... I'm confused. What's bugged right now?

[hard ember]

https://i.imgur.com/W4hRpkY.png

[alpine wraith]

then wm

man what a shite build

[hard ember]

yeah i hate it

like

i don't think that's a good recc

like i sim 35k more in single and 12k less in aoe with WM and improved backstab

[alpine wraith]

well i will wait until good people at the game try it

[hard ember]

i don't get it

i want WM

[alpine wraith]

im staying trickster

[hard ember]

like i will be okay doin 12k less aoe when the aoe sim is literally millions

for the improved single target

i would like to drop tornado for gloomblade cuz i like gloomblade but uh it's not proccing flensing

so uh

the "single target gain" you would have gotten from having gloomblade in that case is actually a loss for sure

[fierce cedar]

oof

Tornado is evil. kill it with fire

[hard ember]

flensing is getting buffed by something i'm not sure

https://i.imgur.com/kQyGA6I.png

[alpine wraith]

lingering darkness

[hard ember]

lingering isn't doubling the dmg is it

that sounds crazy

[alpine wraith]

30% is quite a bit

[hard ember]

this is on dummies

30% doesn't change 33k to 62k

[topaz egret]

I wouldn't recommend playing without imp backstab

[hard ember]

^

[alpine wraith]

dance and SoD

also yea imp backstab

we already have shite crit

[hard ember]

yeh idk

[hard ember]

also apparently i can't read because i put the wrong rupture on madge

[charred sandal]

dust brainwashed me so hard to play without it

[hard ember]

@hazy breach in a scenario where like we're not in dance, we have lingering darkness, and symbols up, do we spend CTW or do we just keep pressing backstab to extend symbols uptime

in the darkbrew/ds

[quartz prism]

respec assa in suboptimal gear, literally increased my m+ dps by 300-400k + you get aoe silence and aoe dmg redux.......

im so sad guys

[hard ember]

i mean yeah my sin sim is over 1m ahead in patchwerk 6t cleave

[hazy breach]

Keep stabbing in symbols

For inev

[hazy breach]

Assa is just really really good in keys

Not like "oh its good for a rogue spec" but like one of the best specs in the entire game

Because it does insane overall while also doing bonkers priority damage

[alpine wraith]

and getting dr

and silence

and execute

idk

also does the dishes on sunday

[hazy breach]

Usually dont spec execute in keys though

But you could

[alpine wraith]

i meant the thingy that pops mobs

[hazy breach]

Ah ye, demise

[alpine wraith]

it is funny seeing some big hp mobs dying at like 15%

if they still have DM on

[civic oyster]

!wax

[wicked jolt]

Bubbling Wax can once again be applied to weapons of all levels
There might still be bugs and odd things happening to it that hasn't been tested yet, but it seems to be working based on initial testing

[uneven scarab]

Dude dm on a prio target with demise is insane

like actually just delete those mobs

[jaunty heath]

Bumpers

[pliant topaz]

I had pretty good FW uptime outside of dance using silent storm procs in single target but yeah prob not great

[alpine wraith]

clear the witness storms can save ass yea

[quartz prism]

before my friends let me play sub, but we just timed our first 9

and they kinda want me staying assa haha

[hazy breach]

You'd unironically just storm on ST

If fw isnt up

[left ledge]

Just like the good old days

[pliant topaz]

yep thats what i kinda did

not sure if silent storm is worth it but yea

[alpine wraith]

you have ti talent anyway

and momentum of despair can save your ass a bit if you still have it from critting before

[pliant topaz]

not really u are giving up a lot to take it

[left ledge]

Why is this spec lowest ST and garbage in aoe

Can anyone explain

What does sub rogue do

[pliant topaz]

oh oh i can

[alpine wraith]

the buffs are missing

the bugs are plenty

the devs are in malaysia

[left ledge]

Why does this spec even exist

[hazy breach]

Idk is it really a lot, its inev/wm+imp backstab