#subtlety
uneven scarab
trim ridge
u play assa, turn off ur brain and proceed to do gigadps
lilac stag
u play assa, turn off ur brain and proceed to do gigadps
Watch everyone else die to mechanics.
trim ridge
Watch everyone else die to mechanics.
classic m+ experience
trim ridge
should be able to nimble bp too…
but.. its alreadya n aoe
do u cleave the cleave?
LMAO
uneven scarab
Yes 
gaunt tiger
at least we move faster than sin, thats something i guess
lilac stag
aren’t you speed capped on gear yet? Seesh
trim ridge
if u say so...
young path
Nimble only does 40% evis spread, bp like 60-70k per target hit harder
mental comet
!transmitter
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
lilac stag
Nimble only does 40% evis spread, bp like 60-70k per target hit harder
Evis would actually need to do dmg
something something shadowcraft fuckery
young path
funny, my sub sim with brew is 3.4m
Can u link the sub one?
gaunt tiger
what are your secondary stats
young path
Just curious
gaunt tiger
thats sus
trim ridge
Evis would actually need to do dmg
but since base dmg is low cuz of all the fucking multipliers we can add
💀
uneven scarab
1 evis is worth 1.8 bp i believe were the numbers
willow fulcrum
lilac stag
A 5 min 5T sim? What the what the?
pliant topaz
1 evis is worth 1.8 bp i believe were the numbers
For trickster. For Deathstalker it’s like 1.4 ish
gaunt tiger
wtf, bro has so much crit, ofc sin is better
willow fulcrum
no
uneven scarab
For trickster. For Deathstalker it’s like 1.4 ish
Yeah deathstalker bp’s at 2+ targets no matter what right
willow fulcrum
i have loads of vers mast gear
the crit just sims better than it
i simmed all my crafts as vers/mast and it made me go crit
pliant topaz
It’s a lot better yeah.
lilac stag
wtf, bro has so much crit, ofc sin is better
You’re probably going to want more crit in 2 weeks as sub
gaunt tiger
hey i got 2 weeks
gaunt tiger
im using my dust while i got it
willow fulcrum
i never liked dungeon slice
lilac stag
it’s good for rogue
gaunt tiger
just blood lust
lilac stag
or do ask fuu for a 30 second sim
gaunt tiger
unless youre weird and dont bring BL
mental comet
as a stat to have on gear pretty much
trim ridge
so haste only increases energy regen which we dont need so, does bl really increase our dps? we are locked on a 1s gcd anyway
mental comet
it increases your auto attack speed as well which boosts your procs
mental comet
shadowcraft CPs
trim ridge
oh yea ig
jaunty umbra
!bugs
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Bug tracker: Bugs - Subtlety Rogue
uneven scarab
Well lust gives alot of haste compared to just a small amount on gear
lilac stag
Haste isn’t useless. We just don’t go out of our way to get it.
uneven scarab
its our lowest stat but it still has an impact
mental comet
idk how big it is but i can defo feel the diff between lust and no lust opener like on queen p1 that shit is rough
mental comet
iirc 10% haste only gives 2 extra actions per minute but having 30% from lust maybe more noticable to swim in energy but we also don't need energy in our windows if we play properly so ..
trim ridge
doing things quicker generally feels better
but we are locked at 1s gcd so it isnt quicker really?
young path
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gZS45WWnuX7dH1ht6uADki
Dust build I was messing around with yesterday
It go brr a few times… just need tanks to pull around CDs
willow fulcrum
thats why brew feels worse than dust, trickster usually lines up really well with all these dungeons
mental comet
imagine having a tank that actively tracks and pulls around his party member's cds
willow fulcrum
going off what pulls tanks generally do
uneven scarab
imagine having a tank that actively tracks and pulls around his party member's c...
😏
mental comet
if you have every cd and dps pot up tank will single pull a 3 pack
if you have literally nothing tank will pull 6 packs
manic island
did the deathstalker/bp change matter at all?
gaunt tiger
true, then youll have 2 mins of doing less dps than the tank
mental comet
and if you try to hold cds around your clueless tank you will just end up being sad no matter what
young path
true, then youll have 2 mins of doing less dps than the tank
That’s what I call the “rupture spread window” 🤣
mental comet
imagine if rupture did damage
young path
Rupture is usually 3rd to 4th highest dam in overall
willow fulcrum
will be more as brew bc its shadow damage
uneven scarab
even as dust build its still up there
willow fulcrum
ye
uneven scarab
Kinda insane
young path
even as dust build its still up there
Yup
mental comet
do i play the funny sub build in my push keys today?
or do i play the unfunny caustic spatter
young path
Challenge yourself, play c tier
trim ridge
i might do a little trolling today since vault was a big shit
young path
😂
trim ridge
i might do a little trolling today since vault was a big shit
make friends suffer play sub
near rivet
i usually start with assa, if friends start to chainpull to troll my restealths, i start to troll them by going sub
mental comet
mostly for iron wire ye
but in terms of damage its not as big as ppl think
theres a command for it in sin channel
mental comet
agree
trim ridge
for sure
mental comet
i play nelf so i can do w/e
lilac stag
Challenge yourself, play c tier
Outlaw?
mental comet
ez restealth on demand
trim ridge
i play nelf so i can do w/e
YES
lilac stag
Sub not even on tier chart
trim ridge
i'm sure there are sv's where there arent any subs even
gaunt tiger
we swapped populations with sv this expac
trim ridge
Last I checked, no sub has timed a 12
maybe cuz no one invites them
who would take a sub rogue to a 12
gaunt tiger
maybe cause we do no damage T_T
trim ridge
and if its ur own key ppl will enter the party see ur sub and leave
keen dome
I'd invite a SUb rogue if one applied to my key
uneven scarab
shit me too
trim ridge
That assa doesnt
not having an aoe silence
keen dome
because then we'd have two Sub rogues and that's gonna be an experience
uneven scarab
not having an aoe silence
Exactly
uneven scarab
unironically double assa rogue probably fucking murders keys
young path
Endless silences
ornate heron
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
gaunt tiger
well sub has uh well we have hmm... better shadowsteps?
keen dome
Sub has style. Sub has grace.
uneven scarab
Sub has major swag
young path
Sub has style. Sub has grace.
Exactly!
uneven scarab
for sure
trim ridge
Sub has style. Sub has grace.
sub broke a knee while trying to make a backflip
keen dome
you can go: Watch this!
and then they'll be very impressed
graceful crown
I think I'm gonna pull an illegal move and just play trickster
uneven scarab
I think I'm gonna pull an illegal move and just play trickster
Not even illegal
Ive jut been playing it everywhere
gaunt tiger
I think I'm gonna pull an illegal move and just play trickster
what a madlad
trim ridge
wym! its so fun!
gaunt tiger
bros doubling down on the bad dps
uneven scarab
💯
wispy bolt
Storm Bp storm bp storm Bp storm EVIS
trim ridge
if that aint peak design idk what it is
onyx hare
Almost as good as frost dk pillar-> oblit oblit oblit oblit oblit
Atleast this does damage tho
uneven scarab
trim ridge
at least that one gives dopamine damage
gaunt tiger
yeah except they pump
trim ridge
here u just press 2 buttons and look at the screen like the peepo sad emote
gaunt tiger
im tbh trickster pumps for like a minute
uneven scarab
Trickster opener is fucking awesome and then i cry for a minute
gaunt tiger
but then what
graceful crown
Storm Bp storm bp storm Bp storm EVIS
Dont forget the chance of getting only 6 out of your 7 cp so u gotta do a cheeky London backstab to use your st eviscerate in a pack of 6 kultirans kn siege who keep pulling you and stunning you around
jaunty umbra
BP is fun 
trim ridge
Dont forget the chance of getting only 6 out of your 7 cp so u gotta do a cheeky...
cheeky london bastab
i'm stealing that one
keen dome
BP is fun <:dracthyr_shrug:1002454156751151145>
I do like it's animation
graceful crown
Or the fact that assassin players just press 3 buttons and win then cry how hard rogue is
shy sparrow
wait so
how does deathstalker play in m+?
do i pull symbols + dance and then spam storm > BP after the first sectech?
keen dome
pocket explosive sand
uneven scarab
i enjoy both, just deathstalker aoe really shows me the krangledness of sub
graceful crown
3 million damage by just breathing btw
uneven scarab
3 million damage by just breathing btw
3 million dam doing the bare minimum
trim ridge
apply debuffs
uneven scarab
while im sweating balls
gaunt tiger
ngl, kinda regretting rerolling from enhance this expac
onyx hare
ngl, kinda regretting rerolling from enhance this expac
What a tragic mistake you have made honestly
gaunt tiger
im way too deep now is the worst part
uneven scarab
never too late bby
onyx hare
Enhance has like a 2:1 sauce to beans ratio
uneven scarab
Unless ur locked into a raid spot
onyx hare
Shits goated
trim ridge
once you go rogue u are to depressed to swap classes so u stay rogue
uneven scarab
Playing rogue is like cock and balls torture
gaunt tiger
Unless ur locked into a raid spot
indeed T_T
uneven scarab
Except we like it
uneven scarab
Truth
trim ridge
directly to my ass
uneven scarab
LMAO
jaunty heath
It still needs god
uneven scarab
I havent bothered yet but i should
Exactly
I kinda feel like sure its nice but man
Does it make me hate myself
trim ridge
not even could good fix this shit
onyx hare
Praying for trickster buffs next reset honestly
trim ridge
delete rogue remake the game put another class
onyx hare
Not loving DS in keys even a little bit
trim ridge
uneven scarab
nimble fix and blades fix would literally make me cream
lilac stag
sometimes u even get pegged
gaunt tiger
rework rogue to a ranged spec
trim ridge
LMAO
trim ridge
rework rogue to a ranged spec
MAKE OUTLAW A DUAL WIELD PISTOLS
sub rogue a ninja shuriken throwing spec
uneven scarab
Ive been getting screenshots from my guildmates with transmitters in their vaults, i havent seen a single one drop from raid or in my vault
trim ridge
and delete assa for being alway good
uneven scarab
its become a meme
trim ridge
Ive been getting screenshots from my guildmates with transmitters in their vault...
u dont want to see my vault this week
uneven scarab
until i finally secured it last night in raid
gaunt tiger
we're already half way there, just make our BP go across the map
trim ridge
rejoice
uneven scarab
u dont want to see my vault this week
mine was dogshit
lilac stag
and delete assa for being alway good
They’re never good. Just ask them.
trim ridge
everything simmed worst
trim ridge
i did too
uneven scarab
not a single usable piece
Atleast i aint alone
gaunt tiger
i got the rare cloak, idk if it's any good, but it was high ilvl upgrade
shy sparrow
how to deathstalker aoe, i don't fully understand how just bp buff makes ds better than trickster?
trim ridge
who's pegging me
lilac stag
tax for not doing delves
trim ridge
tax for not doing delves
delves dont give transmitter
uneven scarab
besides the first week or two
lilac stag
I did 8 drives and got radio in vault.
trim ridge
I did 8 drives and got radio in vault.
radio?
keen dome
imp telephone
gaunt tiger
bros jamming out
lilac stag
Transmitter
lilac stag
no. Just unlocks the special sauce in the vault.
trim ridge
no. Just unlocks the special sauce in the vault.
oh.
keen dome
Do you have to be nice to brann for it to work though
trim ridge
but last 2 weeks i did the delves and got jackshit
lilac stag
This week there’s a mad queen and the special neck
lilac stag
do them better? Idk
trim ridge
keen dome
Every rare I kill today is giving me warband gear..
trim ridge
the game wants me to swap to assa since i got skardyns last week and also got the dawnbreaker one
XD.
laughable
lilac stag
Nice. Enjoy doing damage
trim ridge
at least skardyns is okay on sub
keen dome
simple. no thought. big boom
trim ridge
i also like the 10 million crit mandate
trim ridge
i have to say i have the other trinket from kyveza
keen dome
A friend of mine got a Myth spyglass from their first vault which was amazing
trim ridge
the mediocre one
trim ridge
HUH
uneven scarab
yep
uneven scarab
i havent rolled on ANYTHING in raid for fucking weeks
keen dome
I have the contract. I love it because it's what sectec should look like.
trim ridge
I have the contract. I love it because it's what sectec should look like.
since i dont play the contract on raid and only m+ and i swapped to assa on m+ i have actually never seen the proc
keen dome
I'm using it as Assa 'cos I have nothing better
It's just rad looking though
It's the same animation she plays in the raid when she has clones slice people in P2
trim ridge
i use the eg trinket plus skardyn on assa
trim ridge
It's the same animation she plays in the raid when she has clones slice people i...
thats so cool
then we have sectech which i dont even see the animation 90% of the time
keen dome
I'll swap it to Mandate if I get it or I dunno, something like Dawnbreaker for Assa?
uneven scarab
Yeah i wish the sectech animation was a little flashier
trim ridge
contract for st is kinda popoo
uneven scarab
Its cool but u cant see that shit
trim ridge
Yeah i wish the sectech animation was a little flashier
none of our skills is even a lil bit flashier
or shadowy
boring ass animations
uneven scarab
Wdym my character glows purple in dance 
keen dome
haha
uneven scarab
Cant see that shit tho
keen dome
Its cool but u cant see that shit
Yeah 😦
I shoudl sim and check if my Champ Sacbrood beats it for M+, on Assa. Probably does.
uneven scarab
Contract beat out my trinkets in st
I had literal trash though
before last night
Toxin+empowering crystal
fuck toxin
I hate that thing
Why is it not just an equip, why do i have to use it every hour
keen dome
Rogue experience
uneven scarab
always forgot
trim ridge
Why are our poisons not a toggle
please.
trim ridge
i mean what did u expect of a class that didnt get modernized like the others
uneven scarab
keen dome
Every second of every day.
I wake up and open palm slam shadowstep to get to my keyboard to post about how good and cool Sub rogue is then I realize I've shadowstepped something terrible.
uneven scarab
Maybe one day we can be normal
trim ridge
sheer power of being unlucky
trim ridge
Maybe one day we can be normal
we are not even asking for top dmg
we are asking for
being playable
LMAO
keen dome
They saw my two year long shouting of "SUB IS COOL GUYS" in trade chat and went "Fuck that guy"
keen dome
haha
uneven scarab
I mean technically can with coup you are jut gonna go on a journey dashing to that mob
trim ridge
I mean technically can with coup you are jut gonna go on a journey dashing to th...
if i counted how many times i trolled myself with the dash at first
lmao
uneven scarab
Lmfao dude, nearly killed myself with it last night
Went through like 4 puddles
of shit
shit my pants and continued on LOL
shy sparrow
realising that the bp buff indirectly made me not have to deal with whatever the fuck this defect ass button called Coup de Grace is
that in itself is a buff methinks
keen dome
I wiped a guilds normal Ansurek with it
I was doing goop. I didn't notice I coup up and hit evis and it shot me out of the puddle, right at the last moment and I couldn't trigger it in time
really funny honestly
It was JUST far away enough
leaden ledge
as stalker how many targets do we ss and bp on? and do we ss even in dance?
shy sparrow
intuition would tell me 2+ for bp > evis
storm vs shadowstrike however idk
serene tapir
Even tho i pump as assa and all but i miss Sub so might just go sub and struggle to get inv even more 🙈
shy sparrow
but i'm feelycrafting and i grey parse so don't listen to me
crimson wind
I get invited to raids np but getting into a key is harder than the keys themselves
uneven scarab
but yeah u right
trim ridge
i think they associate the whole class as bad
instead of sub spec
lmao
u heard it here
zenith oriole
So I feel like deathstalker in M+ is fine now no? I mean its trash to play but I guess the numbers are there?
warm marlin
ppl in general dont like to invite rogues
no brez, no lust, bad aoe stops, and i suspect a surprising amount of wow players don't know about atrophic since it's a debuff rather than a "raid buff"
uneven scarab
Usually, its a popular fotm choice quite often
its understandable
I blame outlaw for historically always being really good in keys
although assa took that spot this season
trim ridge
no brez, no lust, bad aoe stops, and i suspect a surprising amount of wow player...
i mean aoe garrote iron wire aoe blind, good kick mobility good defensives
i dont see it as a bad class
if i wasnt a rogue myself i would take an assa rogue wiith me almost very key lol
uneven scarab
Sin is legit insane in keys if you arent taking one ur trolling
Well not trolling but
U know what i mean
If one applies and you decline it cuz its a rogue then 
idk man
warm marlin
aoe blind is a really bad aoe stop, kick is only fine but not great, and the other stuff is sin specific
uneven scarab
we are doomed
trim ridge
aoe blind is a really bad aoe stop, kick is only fine but not great, and the oth...
yea was talking abt sin, sub is doomemd
uneven scarab
aoe blind is huge tho
trim ridge
sub has nothing
uneven scarab
can stop 5 casts at once
crimson wind
i find aoe blind very useful
trim ridge
same
warm marlin
it's cool to not DR but now that mobs just recast u really want duration on your stops
and the cd is pretty long
crimson wind
sometimes it gives me enough time for kick to come up
uneven scarab
fucking utility for years
warm marlin
kidney is pretty great though
barren dawn
yea was talking abt sin, sub is doomemd
😮💨
uneven scarab
Cheap/kidney go a long way
steel horizon
Aoe blind was good for that week 1 affix
uneven scarab
If you arent afraid to use them
trim ridge
Aoe blind was good for that week 1 affix
not even that good cuz if u blinded an orb intead of another mob since it would disappear it wouldnt apply to the rest
funny as fuck if u ask me
uneven scarab
Yeah i hated that shit
steel horizon
Yeah it was weird. You couldn't target the orb when using it
trim ridge
mob angle
uneven scarab
Spaghetti ass code
uneven scarab
Yep
trim ridge
like its a spec not designed for how wow works now...
class*
and thats why its the least played...
Nahhhh that cant be it
uneven scarab
idk i always read on forums that people think rogue is hard or super button bloated but ive literally never felt that
You want button bloated go play fuckin druid
and come back and tell me rogue is bad
trim ridge
there are some dead buttons on sub
that are scary when u first enter to rogue
but yea
not bloated tbh
uneven scarab
Fair
trim ridge
just outdated
uneven scarab
I can agree with that
trim ridge
u could say since rogue isnt simmilar to any other class
its hard for ppl to get into?
uneven scarab
idk once youve played long enough you realize its not as bad as it truly looks
paper rock
A lot of classes copied rogue and are similar to rogue because of it
I dont rly see your point soshane tbh
trim ridge
i agree but first player experience is important
uneven scarab
alot of classes have a combo point kind of system these days
But you need to realize
They copied alot off rogue
paper rock
Exactly this
uneven scarab
And kinda left it
hollow cobalt
Any good user ready WA for transmitter ?
uneven scarab
In the dirt after that
warm marlin
current havoc is pretty similar to sub tbh, occasional burst window/cooldown stacking burst and mid ish damage outside
just not to same extreme
uneven scarab
but at the same time, i think the way rogue works with cp is alot more intricate than any other class with that resource
trim ridge
but at the same time, i think the way rogue works with cp is alot more intricate...
yea
monk is a just a get it spend it think
monkey
uneven scarab
also imo, echoing never didnt make sense to me but i see people asking all the time how it works
Even though it is so simple for me to understand ig not everyone sees it that way
trim ridge
i liked echoing
uneven scarab
i feel meh about it
trim ridge
even tho it felt weird when u backstabed and got more combo points than needed
and getfucked
uneven scarab
I think the changes to it are great coming up
wispy pebble
Do i pause the opener for transmitter quest or do i do it while casting?
uneven scarab
yeah its not like a button u press i think its a passive
uneven scarab
Do i pause the opener for transmitter quest or do i do it while casting?
I use it before flag+rupture and try and collect it right as im dancing
trim ridge
u could also say in pvp rogue is pretty complex
and tht also makes ppl drop the class
uneven scarab
yeah def
trim ridge
one of the only classes that u deal 0 dmg if u are starting to play it
wispy pebble
any single target talent changes for DS build?
trim ridge
a lot of classes and specs u can smash ur keyboard and do something at least
but pvp isnt that important since well pvp is kinda deadge
rustic goblet
Is sub damage competitive in AOE?
trim ridge
Is sub damage competitive in AOE?
hollow cobalt
Can i macro transmitter with flag ?
crimson wind
outside of cds a healer might out damage us
trim ridge
migh?
rustic goblet
<:OMEGAKEKW:829051106361344021>
That's what I thought, damn
trim ridge
they do
rustic goblet
Also I forgot what changes we are getting in 11.0.5, but how do those affect the AOE?
rustic goblet
Yeah, I've been playing sin this season, but I've been having the itch for sub, and since I'm solely a m+ player, I don't want to grief my keys
trim ridge
sub is doommed
rustic goblet
I believe, season 2 they will get their glow up
fierce cedar
gotta love it when you join a timewalking dungeon and gets vote kicked before the first pull
fierce cedar
30 min leave buster
i joined in. 5 seconds later vote kicked
didnt even have time to say hi
uneven scarab
Game is good
tawdry kiln
they saw a sub rogue
rigid pasture
guys do i play ds on ulgrax now
fierce cedar
they saw a sub rogue
lmao frfr
shy sparrow
guys do i play ds on ulgrax now
pin makes me think ds on everything except court?
shy sparrow
i'm just glad i have an excuse to not have to deal with coup de grace
uneven scarab
Also getting aug simped a bit though so trickster just feels better
young path
Also I forgot what changes we are getting in 11.0.5, but how do those affect the...
1:30 full burst, probably going to be really good imo
I’m oversimplifying but it’s essentially an “almost” dust build that also gets dark brew
I think people are giving it enough credit just yet
But we will see
uneven scarab
Yeah its just deadly brew with dust cadence
wispy bolt
Losing the cdr to fit multiple dances is gonna suck tho
sly shore
Deathstalkers mark still not fixed poggers
young path
Losing the cdr to fit multiple dances is gonna suck tho
Yup, that’s the TBD part
uneven scarab
uneven scarab
Deathstalkers mark still not fixed poggers
I mean have they actually fixed anything for sub yet
sly shore
no
wispy bolt
Do we have the easiest rotation in the game btw? A lot of other classes are reacting to procs and priority lists… ours is the same buttons in a static order and for the majority it’s 2 buttons
young path
In between CDs getgud at rupture tabbing 🤣
uneven scarab
Do we have the easiest rotation in the game btw? A lot of other classes are reac...
The core rotation is not hard, but doing everything properly in cd’s is where people struggle
ivory swallow
Do we have the easiest rotation in the game btw? A lot of other classes are reac...
Yeah, I saw warriors doing 1 key macro doing 6m damage, way harder than Sub for sure
uneven scarab
Its alot of stacking stuff
wispy bolt
I started this game on sub and I legit can’t play most other classes cause they are much harder
woeful egret
with the new bp change, who has been owning the dps charts in m+ since the patch?
ivory swallow
You need to pay attention to CDR, procs, freaking tight cd window, cd reset, completely unpredictable combo point generation, same energy as other classes....
uneven scarab
with the new bp change, who has been owning the dps charts in m+ since the patch...
Assa rogue
young path
What’s CD on Aug breath? This .5 patch may shock some folks
woeful egret
that's not sub
wispy bolt
I really don’t think we are hard at all. Our cd window is 5 or 6 buttons total?
Unique buttons that is
uneven scarab
Well it’s not really about how many buttons
wispy bolt
For me it is😳
woeful egret
it's about the motion in the ocean with your button presses
uneven scarab
it's about the motion in the ocean with your button presses
True
wispy bolt
I used to only use laptops so my keyboard skills are bad. Really bad
uneven scarab
You gotta press them with swag
wispy bolt
I’m a software engineer too and my typing skills are horrific
woeful egret
I've seen plenty of 4 button specs out perform 8 button specs
or even 10 button specs
wispy bolt
Keyboard looker when shift keying numbers ngl
ivory swallow
I’m a software engineer too and my typing skills are horrific
? Hahahaha I am a SE and my typing skills are fucking good hahahaha
Not my rogue skill though hahahaha
wispy bolt
Oh I also don’t use a mouse day to day cause trackpads so yikes
It’s all cooked when gaming
If I could play on a MacBook I would 10/10 times
pliant topaz
What’s CD on Aug breath? This .5 patch may shock some folks
woah true!! if we were 1.5 min already we coulda known damn
granite bear
did sub get buffed?
vale pine
BP got buffed
pulsar mauve
!wax
wicked joltBOT
Bubbling Wax can once again be applied to weapons of all levels
There might still be bugs and odd things happening to it that hasn't been tested yet, but it seems to be working based on initial testing
granite bear
BP got buffed
but not good enough? ^^
vale pine
!wax
use it on one weapon (your higher item level one) if you want to, it is slightly better than stones but also not required
vale pine
but not good enough? ^^
depends on what you are after
how strong subtlety is is in relation to other specs and classes
not only itself
and thats the problem
woeful egret
bro getting all philosophical on us
woeful egret
it's fun to play
woeful egret
sub rogue and ww monk are best specs to play because they are the most fun
keen dome
truth
young path
woah true!! if we were 1.5 min already we coulda known damn
(Now being able to align with dark brew…)
pliant topaz
only if there was a way for us to tell how much we gain from darkbrew while losing dances
damn
theres gotta be a way
young path
Ikr? Do tell giga gamer
pulsar mauve
use it on one weapon (your higher item level one) if you want to, it is slightly...
Does Momentum of Despair crit dmg buffs every spells ? Or just BP and Shuriken?
round latch
theres gotta be a way
i think sub is such a hard spec to handle in general even devs cant handle it 💀 (f@ck's wrong with er-dn interaction man 
)
pulsar mauve
woops sorry didn't mean to reply 😦
pliant topaz
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
Does Momentum of Despair crit dmg buffs every spells ? Or just BP and Shuriken?
all fine, it only works on the specific spells
pliant topaz
turns our you can already sim subs burst with db build
turns out its lower than dust
crazy world we live in
pliant topaz
<:Cheesin:1004094333458317332>
i did a lil napkin math i dont think even supercharger can save deapths perception
talents just too awful
young path
Is deepening shadows being changed in .5 patch?
pliant topaz
nope
young path
How many dances in total u think we will have in 1 minute and 30 seconds?
alpine wraith
pathing is just so cursed
alpine wraith
3 dances
young path
Pray for a buff then lol
pliant topaz
now youre getting it
wispy pebble
assa guildmate is obliterating me hahahahhahahaha
harsh drum
is deathstalker playable for aoe or is trickster mandatory?
pliant topaz
check the pins
harsh drum
bless up, fuck managing flawless form and coup de grace
young path
now youre getting it
Deepening shadows like 3 second CDR per combo point? (Math is hard)
rugged condor
i cant wait till shadowdust gets removed 
are there any preliminary sims to know how strong triple symbols will be in place of shadowdust?
pliant topaz
Deepening shadows like 3 second CDR per combo point? (Math is hard)
0.5 per CP
onyx hare
bless up, fuck managing flawless form and coup de grace
Fuck managing a almost entirely passive buff that you could not even track
violet torrent
Time to play BP on brood baby. Jk
young path
Sooo 17ish finishers to get a dance back…
Dang, I mean… I’m not math or simcraft smart but i would like to think we will cast a full bar finishers atleast double that in 1.5 minutes
My math probably wrong
And I wonder if coup counts as 3x7?
onyx hare
And I wonder if coup counts as 3x7?
Nah
pliant topaz
coup just ads + 5 cp
so max 12
regardless, u can go test it on ptr yourself
you only get 3 dances every 1.5 min
young path
regardless, u can go test it on ptr yourself
Fair enough
woeful egret
so, the question is do we use storm inside dance or in between dance?
I've never played that talent because I hate it
pliant topaz
depends on situation
woeful egret
I dunno, just did it on the 5 target dummies and did 3m+ burst lol
but afterwards you have nothing lol
pliant topaz
thats the spec yea
alpine wraith
and think about what 3m means
kekw
even my 615 feral bursts for 7m
if rng is right
dry plank
clearly sub design and current state is maximum fuked up and its dev teams fault, my sin did like 4.5 mil envenom crit, I did not get anything around with my sub, the spec literally about huge finishing moves blast burst boom cbum
hazy breach
Subs finishers does more'
They just split into different hits
So its not as satsifying
Sectech does like 8-9M+ during big cds
woeful horizon
red vortex
where was it again where i can find the opener difference for DS and trickster?
there was an imagfe of it
thick temple
On fuus wowhead articles under rotation you can toggle between what you're talented into and Ds/trickster
red vortex
bless ❤️
brave escarp
What is the dps loss in raids if i use Radiant power on both weapons instead of depths?
wanton portal
Hello, if i craft a dagger and i play sin/sub, what are the best stats i can go for ? mastery/crit or other ?
proper latch
Shadowheart talent does not work in SD?
warm depot
Hello, if i craft a dagger and i play sin/sub, what are the best stats i can go ...
both want mastery but sub wants vers and sin wants crit, you pick
wanton portal
both want mastery but sub wants vers and sin wants crit, you pick
Ok thank you !
young path
you only get 3 dances every 1.5 min
Just counted 35 finishers in a 1:30 princess log… isn’t that 2 dances? Help me make it make sense please
pliant topaz
yes because dust gives you 30 seconds of dance cdr
young path
I mean 2 dances back from the deepening shadow talent alone
pliant topaz
I have no idea what youre trying to convey tbh
like the number of finishers he did in 1.5 minutes?
young path
35= 2 dance returns
alpine wraith
hmm he is onto something
young path
2 dances to star, plus 2 returns = 4 dances 1.5 min
alpine wraith
yes but you would not use the 4th one
pliant topaz
assuming that every single finisher was 7 cps exactly, sure
pliant topaz
but thats also why dust can dance 4 times in 1.5 minutes
young path
Well probably better if coup counts as 12 cp
alpine wraith
yea everyday we pray
pliant topaz
2 dances to star, plus 2 returns = 4 dances 1.5 min
okay what happens from minute 1.5 to 3 when you dont have 2 dances to start?
u ever consider that?
young path
Cause u gonna get atleast 2 coup in 1.5
No, not arguing or trolling u this time homie
Genuinely asking because you’re a lot better at this stuff
pliant topaz
Im not sure what youre asking though
like its very unclear what youre trying to figure out
young path
okay what happens from minute 1.5 to 3 when you dont have 2 dances to start?
When I asked how many dances in 1.5, immediate response was 3
Just trying to confirm
pliant topaz
you asked in 1.5 minutes how many times will you be dancing.
the correct answer is 3 without dust
young path
My beer math makes me believe 4, but like I said I’m genuinely asking for clarity
pliant topaz
because you would be pooling to dance twice for the upcoming flag/blades
so u dance twice in the opener, then one more time beofre next set of cds at 1.5 minuets in
2 + 1 = 3
currently dust dances 4 times in 1.5 minutes because dust gives you equivelent to 60 combo points per use which is every 1.5 minutes.
and even then, the cdr gets tight later in the fight around 4-5 minutes
so regardless of how many coup +5's youre counting
youre not making up 60 combo points in 90 seconds
young path
so regardless of how many coup +5's youre counting
None
pliant topaz
is it more clear now why fuu responded 3?
young path
Yah, pooling part /hold 4th makes sense
Without considering the pooling part the math seemed off
alpine wraith
it is also why it is a bit krangled next patch
pliant topaz
not really. youre looking at just 1.5 minutes and saying how many. you could also look at over 6 minutes (right before cds) and ask how many times did i dance, then divide it by 4. turns out its still 3
alpine wraith
as armin once said you will sit on 2 charges for around 10-20 secs
but it is what it is
pliant topaz
or at most its 13
because you wouldnt be pooling and u sneak in 1 more dance at the very end before fight ends
and yes, the tuning for the cdr is so incredibly bad on ptr that before cds youre basically overcapping dances for 10-12 seconds
but u dont have enough cdr to get 1 more dance out
atleast not without wft
vale pine
the easiest way to think about it
you get one dance roughly every 30 sec
and you got one charge of dance as buffer
so any time you use dance without symbols
you lose a dance charge during a symbols cast
young path
I mean I see what you’re saying, and agree
Just hopeful supercharger consumption and coup consumption ends up buffing available dances a little more and the current assessment is low balled
That’s all, let me dream lol
pliant topaz
sure, we're just saying its live on ptr, we tested, its awful.
but i wont kill your dreams! go for it
brave escarp
Is it worth it to farm the transmitter from ormal difficulty?
brave escarp
Okay, thanks!
half comet
fuu are you gonna update wowhead with DS aoe guide
alpine wraith
it is
pulsar mauve
so now we play trickster only in court MM right ?
alpine wraith
no bosses have changed from trickster to ds
blazing cedar
Hello guys, is sub great again for m+ or nah
warm veldt
idk I was on track for a 1.7M heroic broodtwister as deathstalker last night
pulsar mauve
no bosses have changed from trickster to ds
why not ? If DS is better everywhere except 2 targets ?
warm veldt
seems pretty strong
alpine wraith
just timers and mechanics
only boss i see change is ovi nax
that one seems better as DS now
for the record you could play DS on rasha nan but it will be very annoying
iron fjord
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
clever fox
Hey guys,
could you help me figure out how to improve my dps?
I just did a 7/8 heroic palace run and i can not seem to get anything better than green logs.
I 616 Ilvl the weapon/trinket combo 4 set fully enchanted and all that jazz so it must have something to do with my rotation I assume.
If anyone could give me some pointers on what to improve i'd appreciate it a lot.
Here is the link to the logs (Name Humongass): https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dCkLvc1DPV4QqtAN#type=damage-done&boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2
gilded ferry
my dude @clever fox do a !log with the link, ill try to help you out as much as i can
it might not be much but at least is something
clever fox
opaque marten
yo, is it true that having less people playing ur spec compared to other specs = easier to get better logs?
pliant topaz
lets do some math if u have 1000 people playing it, an u get rank 10 u get a 99
if u have100 people andu get rank10 u get 90
oak meteor
Is the wrathstone strinket good at all? Got it and like four people dm'ed me asking for it right away lmao
pulsar quarry
Also if anything if the spec is less played you're probably competing with more dedicated players of that spec. The logs would end up top heavy on parses
opaque marten
got it i guess its easier then to get logs as assa compared to sub
pulsar quarry
If Sub became the most played overnight I bet everyone's parses here would increase quite a bit
alpine wraith
Is the wrathstone strinket good at all? Got it and like four people dm'ed me as...
it is quite decent for 2min specs
pulsar quarry
got it i guess its easier then to get logs as assa compared to sub
Maybe but also Rogue in general is least played so hard to say
alpine wraith
not that much for sub
wide shale
I feel when a spec has lower players, the better players at that spec remain, so its a bit harder to parse higher at times. I parse 96-99 on sin, and usually in the 88-94 range for Sub. (recent mythic parses have just been shit...).
alpine wraith
yea it is quite hard kek
vale pine
low pop is a big problem
wispy bolt
I have all purples and I have no clue how to get higher lmao. There are some parses that look so sus tho, so I assume a lot of shenanigans are going on
vale pine
- you get less attention from blizz unless they think its just a tuning issue
- you have a scewed representation in logs, because you have less good geared people parsing
- you have a harder time parsing because you need to reach high ranks to get good parses
also people will not consider the diffrence
so if you parse 3rd and are 80%
pastel rampart
hope ur having a great day fuu
pliant topaz
I feel when a spec has lower players, the better players at that spec remain, so...
sub does have a lot of really good "one tricks"
red vortex
doing a nm run right now, the arcane mage has a 91 on 62K parses while im here chilling at 86 with 6K parses 
vale pine
you will still be judged as if you suck
vale pine
hope ur having a great day fuu
thanks, hope you too
vale pine
sub does have a lot of really good "one tricks"
i think sub would have a lot more players if blizz didn't actively try to get people away from it
pliant topaz
tbt my post : "We would rather you dont play sub rogue" :^)
vale pine
haha its a good title
alpine wraith
and if you do play it we make sure you suffer as much as possible
and we make 1 boss that is good for you so you also have a civil war
serene notch
I think sub is actually dead last for key pushing.
serene notch
vale pine
for any aktually sayers
solar charm
!fuu
wicked joltBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
vale pine
yes subtlety is not the very last on mythic raids
but if you add heroic
or normal
or all 3 together
serene notch
its a hard spec I think when you think about all specs, even arcane has been trimmed down massively.
serene notch
cold blooded, just seems like....why?
its a random key you forget about and macro it in anyway
tea for dps is silly....again another macro in
vale pine
just macro tea to dance
pulsar quarry
I mean really the pieces we have are symbols and dance. Flag and blades are the "bigger" CDs but I think the focus needs to be on making symbols and dance into an engaging loop
vale pine
idk what you complain about
macroing is not the worse
like the tea changes in 11.0.5
that one is terrible
uneven scarab
Def think we should have more power shifted into dance
hazy breach
I mean really the pieces we have are symbols and dance. Flag and blades are the ...
The loop is already good imo
Its just most things around it
And the fact that we cant always do the loop
Because not enough/too much cdr
opal mantle
what are you guys playing in m+
serene notch
that auto proc for tea was mega aids
opal mantle
i deal 0 dmg with db it scares me
uneven scarab
what are you guys playing in m+
Trickster dust bc i hate myself and i wont play assa
hazy breach
The tea change just doesnt matter
vale pine
its a improvement over what we have
hazy breach
The vast majority of the power is in the energy
We just use it without the energy right now because theres literally nothing else to take
pulsar quarry
The loop is already good imo
I would overall agree. The CDR would be nice to get rid of
vestal escarp
dance heal 
vale pine
The vast majority of the power is in the energy
well the energy outside of cooldowns isn't that powerful
pulsar quarry
I guess it comes down to how much friction you want between CDs
honest saddle
based on the pin, I guess we are going to play DS in m+ now?
north wren
I'm trying to run dust in Raid and finding it difficult to know when I should pop the second one
honest saddle
your second what? @north wren
north wren
Vanish charge
honest saddle
you pop one each big go
uneven scarab
You always use it with major cd’s
honest saddle
and save the last one for the end of the fight
uneven scarab
Flag+blades
brave escarp
The wording on Coup de grace is confusing to me. "5 ADDITIONAL combo points" does that mean 2+5=7 or can we atually do a finisher with 7+5=12?
north wren
Thanks
hazy breach
The wording on Coup de grace is confusing to me. "5 ADDITIONAL combo points" doe...
12
brave escarp
i want to see that tooltip on that 😄 ahaha
whole finisher broken into 12 individual points 😄
thanks!
honest saddle
DS M+ Sim on Dungeon Slice
and trickster
hard to know whats best in practicality
I guess the bigger the pulls get the more DS pulls away with BP?
brave escarp
can you sim without tornado? just for the info?
honest saddle
you want weaponmaster or perforated veins instead?
north wren
I've been sitting on them, I didn't realize that you should chain them right into the opener 🤦🏼♂️
opal mantle
based on the pin, I guess we are going to play DS in m+ now?
looks horrible no ?
not on paper maybe but
honest saddle
I mean, depends on how big the pulls are
hazy breach
Its better on 3 targets
honest saddle
I imagine the more you pull, the better DS look
hazy breach
So not really
onyx hare
I've been sitting on them, I didn't realize that you should chain them right int...
You don’t chain them (if your still talking vanish charge
onyx hare
You send one in your first go after sec tec, you send the second one 90s later in the same spot but in your 2nd CDs
opal mantle
idk guys maybe were just doomed for the patch
honest saddle
I am thinking its a Doomer angle unless we get some help
well always have kush on court to remember sub fondly
pliant topaz
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e1rU4xnGBY5RUhcADWaC2D
its over simming because nimble
hazy breach
Nimble does 25% less than in that sim
honest saddle
gahhh damn
pliant topaz
so the actual admage done difference is closer to 30%
honest saddle
I looked at logs
I didn't see anyone running ds on any aoe fights in raid
might just not have known to
honest saddle
you think week 4 I am not trying to pad on Ulgrax?
thats ALL I am trying to do
the boss is dead on my screen the second I log into the game
would you just play normal st DS and black powder on ulgrax?
you either drop swift death in order to get tornado, or you abandon aoe talents altogether
barren plume
I can’t parse on ulgrax to save my life… the add phase they all take so long to spawn and then gather it’s just a shit show
honest saddle
are you doing the strat where everyone just sits and waits for them to come
I think it makes parsing pretty hard
but unsure
it's ulgrax so I think people just wanna kill it and move on
I wanna try this on Ulgrax
vestal fog
Is there any updates as to how sub rogue is lookin next patch with the tiny rework
vale pine
as good as now
with less defensives
and less talent options
and less dynamic in how to use your cooldowns
proper latch
Supercharger will save us 
honest saddle
we just need bug fixes more than anything
if they did nothing but fix bugs we would be so solid
it's such a shame
strange chasm
sly shore
!transmitter
wicked joltBOT
The orb and circle from Treacherous Transmitter always spawn in the same spot. Relative to how your character is facing it spawns northeast/1:30 o'clock/frontright, this means you can know where it will spawn and react accordingly.
https://i.imgur.com/cTPN4Tz.png
honest saddle
you can have my account
my ninja is 50
save yourself the 20 levels
HE PLAYS FOR THE STORY
:GASP:
pliant topaz
lolol its okay, ill get to experinece the story. surely that doesnt make me wanna vengeful retreat off a bridge
pliant topaz
looks like i got 200 hours of story ahead of me 💀 
honest saddle
at LEAST 200
uneven scarab
its just us being negative
Just us being negative but we are losing alot of our talent options that people enjoyed
i think its kinda validated
vale pine
Just us being negative but we are losing alot of our talent options that people ...
well for what its worth
people don't rly care
uneven scarab
Also true
ornate vale
We play Stalker now?
vale pine
like people also don't care
alpine wraith
but dont worry now instead of doing 7% less dmg
vale pine
if we lose defensives
alpine wraith
we do 6%
uneven scarab
I mean ill be sad to lose defensives
vale pine
and does damage
barren plume
What defensives are we losing
elfin pilot
hello hello