assassination

[slow needle]

Spoilers? 🙏

[balmy condor]

Guy was playing 8.3 haste sin, seli was doing his best impression of limit killing the last 10% of anduin for 15 minutes

[slow needle]

Also is the vod available to watch on your twitch? I missed it live.

[balmy condor]

It’s a community event that I’ve most likely overtuned to hell and will only be like 15 people trying to complete

[balmy condor]

It is

[slow needle]

Awesome and awesome. I'm looking forwards to raging at your event.

[bleak sky]

[balmy condor]

The problem with making community events is always that while there are 100k people in the discord, there’s maybe 500 active members, 2-5k lurkers, and 95k people who have it muted and silenced and shoved into the depths of a server folder never to see the light of day

Just gotta look at our announcement engagement to see

[frosty cedar]

lurker reporting in

[slow needle]

Could always get wowhead and r.io to signal boost maybe? They seem pretty happy to do that for community events.

[bleak sky]

People who have it muted silenced and shoved into the emotes folder reporting in

[frosty cedar]

very based

[balmy condor]

I mean like, for an announcement channel in a server of 100k

Just the emote engagement barely hitting double digits

Is not great

[bleak sky]

Could be because no @ everyone

[slow needle]

Hell. Admit Thistle Tea is a good talent and maybe Realz will mention it to the launcher people at the water cooler 🤣

[bleak sky]

Or any form of ping

[ebon notch]

just keep everyone pinging everyone

will filter the weak from the strong

[gusty mirage]

it's for sure that, but whispyr has an idea of an opt-in role for people who want to be notified of the podcast stuff

[midnight mist]

I mean I didnt press an emote, doesnt mean I didnt see it

[gusty mirage]

also feel free to check out the podcast channels (assuming they're still public), the latest episode is uploaded

[bleak sky]

Also what Zac said

[gusty mirage]

also we're on iTunes now boys

[bleak sky]

Huge

[midnight mist]

I dont think most ppl press the emote thingy, unless u ask them to do it

[bleak sky]

And I bet a fuckton of people have this discord muted, myself included

[balmy condor]

Sure but I doubt the ratio of emote pressers to read and lurkers is 1:1000

[slow needle]

How much of this is people like me who engage with the server but I very rarely react to things outside of discussions unless asked to?

[balmy condor]

That’s the thing I don’t know

[midnight mist]

mby

[balmy condor]

Could we try to ping everyone and see what happens? Sure

But I’m not sure if that will fix things

[ebon notch]

i mean

we should still try for science

[gusty mirage]

I think the opt-in role would be a good start, we toss it in the opening read-me thingy

and hope people use the new home feature

[slow needle]

Give me full mod privs. I'll at everyone for you.

[midnight mist]

also I dont know about u guys but there is too many channels so I cant afford to have announcement showed

[balmy condor]

I assure you though these are all things we’re discussing in the background

[gusty mirage]

can peeps see the podcast-chat still?

[ebon notch]

yes

[midnight mist]

yes

[gusty mirage]

okay cool

[balmy condor]

If you don’t have announcements muted, it’ll show up if there’s a new message

[midnight mist]

I have the category muted

not sure why tho

lol

[cursive orchid]

Just mute outlaw ez space

[midnight mist]

yo wtf

[hollow river]

i have it muted and it showed up anyway

[balmy condor]

But yeh

We’re discussing it

[echo geyser]

patiently waiting for CF's to get alpha access

[gusty mirage]

I'll be shocked if I get alpha

closest I've gotten was TBC beta access when I was like 17

lmao

[spice spire]

Patiently waiting for ramfam alpha keys

[echo geyser]

one from each spec or a multispeccer would be cool

[velvet ridge]

when does the podcast start btw

[gusty mirage]

well the wowhead boys should have a good chance of getting it

[ebon notch]

bro i play like 3 goddamn specs

[echo geyser]

u missed it buddy

[ebon notch]

at like a mediocre level

wheres my alpha key

[echo geyser]

maybe if u get green name

[ebon notch]

oxi promote me then

so i can get alpha

[gusty mirage]

#podcast-chat message right now only the spotify & anchorfm links are working (until I bother ronkles to upload it to youtube and until itunes decides to refresh)

[echo geyser]

the best way to get it is actually being in top end guilds

[bleak sky]

He knows all the rwf people, just needs to ask to be put on fnf list

[velvet ridge]

hey so, for the rogue tier set, the color is just the difficulty right, we better be getting the blue and white ones right?

[gusty mirage]

yeah bro

I got you

[echo geyser]

@ebon notch u thought about going into RWF raiding?

[bleak sky]

What do you mean by that exactly

[gusty mirage]

lemme just magically find the power to do that

[bleak sky]

About colors

[ebon notch]

my friend was in pieces for less than a month and he got access

[ebon notch]

yes

but i have no way to get in

[slow needle]

I just want someone who actually has decent takes to get access so there is more information about rogues coming out than a certain someone and their rl.

[velvet ridge]

@bleak sky the preview for DF models showed us as yellow, but the concept art we were blueish white

[bleak sky]

Concept doesn't mean that it will be implemented

[echo geyser]

i wouldnt be a very good alpha "tester"

[gusty mirage]

concepts are typically what the mythic colors look like

[bleak sky]

We have no idea what color schemes might get implemented

[gusty mirage]

or end up being

[ebon notch]

why

you just gonna break everything not submit bug report then log off?

[echo geyser]

cause i just play and have no knowledge really

[slow needle]

Concept art is generally the mythic tier iirc. I don't think we know which difficulty the datsmined stuff is? Could be lfr for all we know.

[ebon notch]

[midnight mist]

dont think thats gonna be the case here, they showed 4 different colors

[bleak sky]

Can't be good with no knowledge so I doubt that

[ebon notch]

hes just raw unfiltered primal talent

[echo geyser]

rogue knowledge

[ebon notch]

he literally doesnt know how to use a keyboard unless his eyes are closed

[gusty mirage]

false

[bleak sky]

Yeah you play sub outlaw in keys

That's some knowledge

Might be specific but hey you good

[echo geyser]

if u asked me how to teach someone how to play x spec i couldnt do it

[gusty mirage]

Ramfam keep your eye out to r.io soon

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

👀

[ebon notch]

bruh you do that every day on your stream

wdym

[gusty mirage]

^

[echo geyser]

i dont teach ppl how to play specs

[ebon notch]

you taught me sub last season

easy title push

[echo geyser]

ah yes, the storm > BP aoe rotation yes

i can do that

[ebon notch]

smh

he's too humble

[slow needle]

Let's be honest. If you can teach Daps you can teach anyone.

[echo geyser]

ok give me alpha lets see what i do

[ebon notch]

???

[echo geyser]

[slow needle]

(I'm tryna make him realise how good he is. Play along)

[bleak sky]

Of course you do, you know people

[ebon notch]

you'd be surprised how your wr kinda restricts the level of people you know

all the contacts ive made have been from this expac

there isnt a single person i play with today that i knew pre SL

[bleak sky]

You know at least 3 rwf players

Yeah but this is going forward right

[ebon notch]

yes but knowing them and have them vouch to raid with you is a huge difference

if JPC vouched for me for example and i inted every raid in a row

how would that make him look?

[bleak sky]

Like shit for sure

[gusty mirage]

probably the same given what happened during the rwf

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

even in my guild if i vouch for a guy and hes garbage then it makes me look bad

and they wont listen to my next vouch

[gusty mirage]

so what you're saying

is you're trash?

because uh

that's my title buddy

[lucid birch]

Sad

[ebon notch]

nah i poached pieces and method players

my vouches tight

[gusty mirage]

never vouched me

smh

[ebon notch]

soon i poach @midnight mist

CA VA MON CHERI??

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

@lucid birch guy calls himself my friend, and doesn't even vouch me

[ebon notch]

i thought you said touch you bro

[lucid birch]

I’d vouch for you if I could

[gusty mirage]

steal me away snow

[ebon notch]

sry

@echo geyser help me get title i pay you in nuggies

[gusty mirage]

ay yo no rmt

ty

[ebon notch]

its not rmt wtf

[midnight mist]

idk if I would like to be in a non french guild tbh

would be kinda strange

[ebon notch]

i would make them myself

[gusty mirage]

motherfucker unless you are growing those "nuggies" out of yourself

[ebon notch]

yes

[gusty mirage]

it's a form of external payment

[ebon notch]

i will grow the nuggies

[gusty mirage]

for in game shit

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

don't make me mute you

[ebon notch]

I WILL GROW

sry

[gusty mirage]

LISTEN I'M ANGRY CUZ I CAN'T THINK OF WHAT TO WRITE

I'M SORRY

[echo geyser]

grow some dank nuggies instead

[ebon notch]

taking it out on me

wtf

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

its either you or minalba

[ebon notch]

oxi just host a brainstorming sesh with me and ramfam right now

[bleak sky]

NOCCO is full of French speaking individuals like daps

You'll be fine

[gusty mirage]

and minalba got it for like

3 months straight

[ebon notch]

we know a lot about keys

hes like 99% of it tho

[echo geyser]

what are u writing

[midnight mist]

cool lets go, waiting for my invite

[ebon notch]

the influence of nuggies on ingame performance

[gusty mirage]

check DMs

[echo geyser]

@midnight mist do u know razhag

[bleak sky]

@ebon notch hire me as poaching officer

[midnight mist]

no

I mean I know him cause he is a streamer

[bleak sky]

I just poached Zac for you

Did your job

[midnight mist]

but I dont personally know every french players

[ebon notch]

ur never in his chat

[ebon notch]

[midnight mist]

especially since I dont raid at a very high level

[midnight mist]

yea sorry

[ebon notch]

get some dank nuggies then

[midnight mist]

wtf does this mean

someone translate

[bleak sky]

I can't

He's speaking gibberish

[obtuse robin]

he is speaking zoomer*

[ebon notch]

BR brain

[slow needle]

Good chicken nuggets?

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

ramfam knows

[echo geyser]

dank nuggies are the smokable kind

[midnight mist]

im even more confused now

[slow needle]

Huh. That makes me feel old.

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

[ebon notch]

i didnt shit or post

im in the clear

[midnight mist]

I think im a zoomer tho

why dont I understand

[echo geyser]

hurry bring out the exsang builds

[gusty mirage]

I'd rather you guys shitpost

[ebon notch]

wait ram enraged stoneborn still works?

in halls?

i thought they fixed that

[gusty mirage]

they fixed the bolstered

[bleak sky]

I wonder where else you'd get enraged stoneborn

[slow marsh]

from joe

[bleak sky]

Trader Joe's selling gargoyles?

Damn

[gusty mirage]

yes

[bleak sky]

They really do have everything

[ebon notch]

@midnight mist ディーズナッツ

[bleak sky]

I love TJ

[echo geyser]

at least noones asking about real sin questions atm

[echo geyser]

yeah ppl do be doing like 100k dps with 2 of them on first boss

[bleak sky]

Hi Mr ram I see you play sin in pf+31 why is that is sin better is sub dead is outlaw bad

[midnight mist]

[ebon notch]

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST

GOTTEM

[midnight mist]

[echo geyser]

sin = gooder spec

[bleak sky]

[lucid birch]

Mr ramfam how do cope with the mental anguish of playing yellow class?

[echo geyser]

just give into the despairge or make a fotm dps class

[ebon notch]

you rang?

[echo geyser]

u are bound to make a fotm dps class cause u have 12 characters

im thinking about booting up the ww for next season as alt

problem is raid gear as usual

its a pain

[balmy condor]

have you considered not being a sweaty shut-in

maybe going outside

and touching some grass

or feeling the warmth of another human

probably a woman

[lucid birch]

Heteronormativity

[ebon notch]

write a guide for that nerd

[echo geyser]

nya @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

stop using big words in my discord you don't even play rogue go away

[lucid birch]

[ebon notch]

wtf imposter

just like varas

[balmy condor]

this dude's a fucking priest healer

just here to shitpost

[ebon notch]

oh

[balmy condor]

[ebon notch]

he gives PI

hes accepted

until PI is banned then we yeet him

[echo geyser]

we got a bunch of spriest coming here lately

[balmy condor]

NOT TO US HE DOESNT

[ebon notch]

@lucid birch is that true

[balmy condor]

his PI is assigned to mages and boomkins

[lucid birch]

Whispyr told me many times he doesn’t want it

Not my problem

[ebon notch]

bro

ive tried to teach you the way of the juice

[balmy condor]

it's true I played sub while he was in my group

[ebon notch]

and you just never fail to disappoint me

[balmy condor]

he quit before I swapped to sin

[ebon notch]

[balmy condor]

now if I was playing sin and PI was offered to me

well....

lets just say republicans wouldn't like the things I do to snow

[ebon notch]

then again what do republicans like

[lucid birch]

Classism

[balmy condor]

everything that excluded minorities 60 years ago

[gusty mirage]

[slow needle]

Lying to the senate during hearings about eligibility to sit on the Supreme Court I heard.

[balmy condor]

oh that's a good one

I Iike that one

but yes

[lucid birch]

[slow needle]

Not joking. What is the TOS for? Is this something in Discord's because I can't see anything in the server rules. I could be blind.

[lucid birch]

I think it’s just off topic m8

[slow needle]

Oh yeah. That makes sense.

I was looking for something more specific xD

[balmy condor]

politics is generally heavily moderated

[gusty mirage]

oh I was just memeing

[balmy condor]

we had quite a few not so friendly discussions we had to control during the 2020 elections

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

so

it ended up being pretty much a blanket ban on politics

[slow needle]

That makes sense. Well, 2 years to go and you may have that fun again.

[lucid birch]

Human rights aren’t politics

[ebon notch]

they are if they get politicised

[lucid birch]

Ill politicize your mouth

[ebon notch]

[gusty mirage]

I'd pay to watch

[ebon notch]

ur down horrendous

[gusty mirage]

am I?

[ebon notch]

you are if youd pay for that

[oak sky]

You said my name?

[gusty mirage]

aren't you in hawaii?

[lucid birch]

For free but you hold the camera

[oak sky]

Yeah and im doing nothing right now sue me lawyerman

[gusty mirage]

okay DM me your info

[oak sky]

@ebon notch ok man im not doing that much nothing

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

My name is andrew and i live in california, find me

[lucid birch]

[gusty mirage]

Andrew, latest podcast episode is live on itunes & spotify

give it a listen

[ebon notch]

its just 2 hours of them shit talking you

[oak sky]

They dont mention me

Ur lying

[balmy condor]

actually true

[oak sky]

W

Irrelevant

W

Yeah i might listen before we go to dinner tho

At least part of it

[faint harness]

Actual andy?

[oak sky]

Its in my discord @

No big secret

[balmy condor]

damn your last name is Themist?

that's a cool last name

[oak sky]

Yep

Got me

[balmy condor]

Andrew Greon Themist

[oak sky]

The A in agreon is for andrew

[balmy condor]

exactly

[ebon notch]

you have a discord??

[oak sky]

Discord @

Andrewthemist#6281

[balmy condor]

link me your wii friend code

[ebon notch]

bruh

its been so long since the wii

@oak sky

wait that worked

pog

[oak sky]

Bro i dont have my wii friend code anymore

Despairge

[echo geyser]

@dapspman#0492

[ebon notch]

uh

why didnt that work

[balmy condor]

@dapspman#0492

dude that's so weird

I guess you're immune to pings

[echo geyser]

he reached the limit and became immune

[ebon notch]

explains why i never get tagged

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's not because you don't have friends

[ebon notch]

oh good

[balmy condor]

it's silly discord not letting people ping you

[ebon notch]

that was my concern

[oak sky]

Starting le podcast

[echo geyser]

enjoy

[gusty mirage]

just making my way through it myself

🙂

[oak sky]

catKiss

[balmy condor]

13:43/7:27:21

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

10 mins in here rn

[sudden nacelle]

in a progression based scenario, when we're trying to push every last bit of damage. Is Sin worth PI'ing in it's current state?

[ebon notch]

you can gain 1k+ as sin from PI with the correct timings

but other classes gain more

[harsh anchor]

auction off PI to your raid before raid

[hollow river]

warlock or fire mage>sin rogue

(depends on your raiders' performance as well i suppose)

[oak sky]

Pi is good on us but fire mage lock and dk are all better basically

[hollow river]

dk?

unholy specifically i assume

[oak sky]

Udk is good

Yeah

[ebon notch]

i mean

uhdk in execute with lust yeah

[oak sky]

Sims dont lie

Dk is good in opener lust or execute primarily with army

[spice spire]

Also in opener

But in between

Stinky

[ebon notch]

idk if it competes with mage/sin/lock does it?

in execute it does for sure

[spice spire]

It beats us

Idk about mage/lock tho

Even MM beyond ST kinda juice

[drifting cloud]

on jailer assa is prolly better pi target than mage

but not lock I guess

alot of azerite buff uptime is just so good for us there with 1min cds

[spice spire]

Yeah lineups are really good for jailer too

Yeah

[drifting cloud]

even 95% boss dmg asssa and demo are evened out

and you know those demo logs are pi cracked lol

assa not so much

[spice spire]

We’re a stat whore spec, we love stats

[ebon notch]

Not in my guild

[hollow river]

Tell Viklund to give up the juice

[ashen scroll]

viklund went to nocco? im an NA player but wasn't he a staple method player for like 10 years?

[grizzled jay]

hello

[ebon notch]

I made so many jokes about that he almost hurt me

[ebon notch]

Yes and yes

[whole mason]

I think that should be considered as phase determined.

In phase 3 and 4, well, if not warrior, sin could be a good target for pi

[dark whale]

We do agree that legendaries wont change for season 4 right?

[balmy condor]

Correct

Tier set stays

So all related gameplay and optimization does as well

[dark whale]

Perfect thanks!

[timid cloud]

We ||SCALE|| really well too.

[oak sky]

Just finished the podcast finally nice work good thoughts

[balmy condor]

[magic torrent]

[spice spire]

NF is best covenant in 9.2.7 🤨

(I’m gaslighting him)

[ebon notch]

You can beat a mage in every single phase as assa without PI

[whole mason]

Beat doesn't mean better damage gain

[ebon notch]

Ofc not

But you aren't in a vacuum

So your comment means nothing

[whole mason]

Not sure about what you mean, but if you think my comment means nothing, okay it means nothing.

[ebon notch]

Sims aren't always applicable to in game

[drifting cloud]

its funny youre looking at theoretical gain from a 5min patchwerk, where assa and fire mage start from the same baseline

but a 90% jailer log, assa is doing more dmg than fire mage

and assa logs have on average 0.5 pis

fire mages on average like 3 pis

so why do they need pis to even out if were supposed to be doing same dmg without any?

[strange python]

Who says "we're supposed to be doing the same dmg without any pis"?

[royal lantern]

im pissing allot and do dmg, ngl

[strange python]

I don't know what that means

[whole mason]

It is not about beating or even out. There is a mage and his gain could be better and he can find a window actually do a good focused output. Then the gain would match what he should get. However, yes, he may fuck up other 7mins and only even out to a sin's output.

[drifting cloud]

well thats what daps meant that its just not always applicable ingame, especially on a fight like jailer which is why I used it as an example even if its a terrible one

pyroclasm gains way more from pi, yet more than 50% of mage logs are playing kindling

[whole mason]

That's why I said it is phase determined.

Some phase they can find windows, some they cannot.

[drifting cloud]

why would the phase matter for either class

we both need the same window, neither of us has execute

[whole mason]

Like locks even would feel difficult to max in phase 4

Fight style? Moving a lot? Runes?

[ebon notch]

Have you killed jailer mythic @whole mason

[drifting cloud]

if the mage isnt doing slurps hes basically a melee anyways

[whole mason]

I have log on the 29th as rogue

[drifting cloud]

atleast dps wise

[ebon notch]

Then you need to pay more attention to the way ranged play the fight

It is not an easy ranged fight by any means

"finding a window" is not that easy when the entire fight is scripted

[whole mason]

I didn't say it was easy

I said phase determined

[ebon notch]

This

Things don't change on that fight they can only get worse

[whole mason]

They told me phase 1and 2 easy to find windows to do that

[ebon notch]

You will play the fight the same no matter what

The only thing that changes is whether you get mechanics

[whole mason]

I'm only giving exactly my raid's feedback about pi and output window. You don't believe or you think I'm talking theoretical thing. Not my problem, and I'm not going to argue about that and I don't ask if someone has killed some boss or not.

[ebon notch]

Yes and I'm giving you mine

The reason why I asked if you've killed it is that your way of talking about the encounter confused me

So it was better to clarify

[whole mason]

Nothing to confuse. Mage can find windows and that is why so many doing it , even from the beginning like liquid. No need to say it is not easy. Nothing in that fight should be considered easy. But with nerfs and updates on strategy, ranged becomes rather difficult to find windows in late phase due to shortened fight and long distance moving. That's why we concluded better pi melee to the end.

[limber lion]

https://c.tenor.com/CzBka_sdDjUAAAAM/raccoon-ayasan.gif

[pulsar apex]

hoy

Dustwalkers on ring.

Unity on Chest for PvP and bracers for PvE

?

that about right?

[gusty mirage]

seems legit

[pulsar apex]

merci

[gusty mirage]

thought behind unity on chest for pvp is cuz it's a bigger stat weighted item

and the tier is crit/haste

vs making haste/vers

[pulsar apex]

yeah thats what some dude on YT said

[stiff frost]

why not unity on helm for higher stats

[pulsar apex]

i think the pvp helm has desired stats

[gusty mirage]

they have the same stat weight

[pulsar apex]

maybe

[gusty mirage]

and the tier helm is crit/vers

[stiff frost]

oh ok

[gusty mirage]

essentially to fit the tier set in for pvp you need to pick a slot that has no vers on it

so that's either chest vs gloves

291 chest will have more stats than 291 gloves, + haste/mastery isn't terrible per se

[stiff frost]

I am just getting back into the wow swing so I am still gearing so I am just getting the stuff down

[pulsar apex]

also i dinged 60 yesterday. so a 291 chest is a massive stat whollop for me

[gusty mirage]

oh yeah

actually enormous

[pulsar apex]

im an a catastrophy of greens

[gusty mirage]

I'm going to try to make my 2.4k push in these last couple of weeks

got to 1944 in like early April and stopped pvping completely

[pulsar apex]

good luck!

[fallen ginkgo]

hey there was a pandemic WA in the Pins that was updated to this tier's timers - anyone got a new link to it?

unless the Afenar one is now updated. If i remember correctly it was said Afenars' is outdated

nvm found the one from Cev

[lucid birch]

[timid cloud]

I hate it here.

[grizzled jay]

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

there there friend

[timid cloud]

[craggy nimbus]

Could you link that?
I'm heading back into the raid a bit with pugs to try some stuff and get transmogs.

[gusty mirage]

https://wago.io/rk2kEs76d

[vale marten]

nothing changes with the playstyle next season right? stilll mfd/ct on st? havent played in a while

[gusty mirage]

correct

[craggy nimbus]

Thanks!

[gusty mirage]

[grizzled jay]

non-venthyr does Vigor/Subt right?

[pliant nest]

you guys still do log analysis?

[gusty mirage]

subterfuge/deeper strata

[limber lion]

They sure do

[pliant nest]

ok so do i just link my log in this channel?

[bleak sky]

yep

some expert red name rogue will try to help

[pliant nest]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FCm4cVx7kMdQJhb2/#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=20

so thats my halondrus log from just now, dont really know where i lost so much damage that i only got a 55 parse

[pulsar apex]

Heya. I’m making dust walkers on chest (for pvp) but its going to be used to for everything really. What missives?

[gusty mirage]

you'd ideally want separate legendaries for pve & pvp

but like if gold is a limiting factor

you're kinda forced just making it haste/vers for pvp

[pulsar apex]

Ah yes

[pure bane]

can somebody tell me the result of this interaction:

I have a 5CP bleed ticking(ex. rupture) and I go to pandemic refresh it at 30% of its duration,
the refreshing rupture is 4CP

[muted ivy]

not 100% sure but I believe the pandemic timer is based on the duration of the refresh, so it would be 130% of the duration of the 4CP rupture

[gusty mirage]

ye it'd be 30% of the duration of the dot you're applying

[pulsar apex]

Guide says flag right before ven

Can be the same global?

Like that close

[gusty mirage]

for pve you wouldn't want to, you'd want to build some flag stacks first to take advantage of the haste it gives

for pvp you'd want to play necro for tankiness or night fae for burst

[pure bane]

then is it better to envenom, potentially let the bleed drop, then try again for 5CP?

[gusty mirage]

nah envenoming is so low on the priority list now

where you only really press it if you need to refresh slice and dice or if you legit have nothing else to refresh

it'll be very rare that you have nothing else to spend those combo points on

I wouldn't worry too much about hitting the max pandemic every single time either

keep this finisher prio in mind: envenom to keep up slice and dice > rupture in pandemic > CT in pandemic > envenom

[limber lion]

Which guide?

You flag finish mfd finish vend

[pulsar apex]

wowhead

[balmy condor]

yeah?

it does?

[subtle tundra]

ok?

[limber lion]

[pulsar apex]

ty

im going through the wowhead guide

and im at this stage

so its before (i guess) the detailed cooldown stage

[pulsar apex]

this is really clear

[balmy condor]

yeah the rotation page is mostly just a general guide, the covenant pages are much more in depth

the rotation page probably is getting a facelift in season 4

[sick edge]

I thought a version of SS already existed, but minus the combo generation. I would prefer a change to tiny toxic blade tbh. Even if it is tuned to be strong, it still is really boring especially if you need to keep shiv as a raid dmg DR (regardless of it staying in sin tree or main tree you will still end up playing sin when heavy DR is required due to the way toxic blade works atm with non-lethal poisons).

[fleet whale]

Apparently the TTB node might turn into a choice node, and the other choice would be Kingsbane

[sick edge]

Ehhhh ok, I mean the thing with choice nodes being available for damage abilities is that there will always be a numerically better choice, making the other one a dead talent. Not sure how I feel about this being a choice node. I do like the kingsbane ability though.

[toxic locust]

i think you can make an argument for passive vs active nodes

because actives are usually harder to use than passives

even if the active is better, people might prefer to use the passive as long as the difference between them isn't too big

[sick edge]

That’s fair enough

[obtuse robin]

for a large % of players the passive wil be more dps then the active

[sick edge]

Main reason for me not liking TTB is that I feel it will not have a big value overall. For the previous reason I mentioned I.e. it needing to be held as a raid cd.

[toxic locust]

i think if realz goes through with two shiv charges for sin it'll be alright

if you can just hold 1 shiv for when you need it

[wary ether]

Hi all, is there anything I can read up regarding S4 with all specs?

[sick edge]

Is that even on the table? It also sounds too strong for dmg having that long a nature dmg amp.

[obtuse robin]

every spec is in the faq

[sick edge]

Nothing’s changing really afaik. It will just be a case of a) what sims best b) what people discover to be the best for each fight c) an element of personal preference

[wary ether]

Yeah I just wondered if assasin would fall ahead again as I presume you can buy 2 of the daggers in S4

I didn't know if any sims had been done or anything yet but i'll take a look around cheers

[obtuse robin]

all 3 are going to be good

[wary ether]

lets hope

[balmy condor]

You can and you will

If anything it helps sub

[wary ether]

Nice

So whats everyone spending the 3rd coin on 😂

[obtuse robin]

for now prolly fusion

or vein if u play outlaw

[balmy condor]

Yeh fusion amp or dreadfire for the raiders

[wary ether]

oh yeah fusion i forgot about that

[obtuse robin]

cache is prolly the best trinket but much easier to get that to drop

[wary ether]

im really looking forward to it all

[obtuse robin]

same i wanna exp a fun loot pinata for some weeks

[hollow river]

It was brought up

Having an extra charge doesn’t really gain you that much dps

Gains you 1 extra use in opener or to hold

Maybe let’s you line up two uses in a late lust

[strange python]

There might be tuning and there may be weird trinket interactions, and I'm sure Sims will be out soon, but hard to imagine sub won't be huge.

[oak sky]

My main concern that hasnt been talked about is imp garrote and MA anti synergy without dance

Might be awky

[gusty mirage]

what's anti synergy about it

[oak sky]

That you want to garrote in the window but you also want to mut

Its like fine tho

Also seems like it might be a lil awky with how deathmark and carnage are supposed to work?

Like you need to garrote to get your shrouded suff assuming that exists and assuming ur in aoe but you also need to garrote after carnage and after deathmark

[gusty mirage]

bruh

cmon discord

post the image

wtf

[oak sky]

Its old subt

I see the img

[gusty mirage]

yeah

I don't

so you get subterfuge + MA

[oak sky]

Well i do its fine

[gusty mirage]

what's the issue

even without dance

[oak sky]

its not an issue necessarily

[strange python]

It feels like part of MA is wasted if you're not Mut, SnD, Mut i guess

i mean your first few ticks of 2-3'ish garrotes get the bonus though

[gusty mirage]

I think mentally it feels weird because the spec's been pretty much the same for fucking ever

[oak sky]

I mean its just about how the traits work

[strange python]

I mean it is kind of an overlap really

[oak sky]

If you assume you dont mut during it anymore and its just crit on bleeds

Then its fine

[strange python]

think about your mid-fight vanish

oh wait the improved garrote dmg gets increased no matter what? not just when used from stealth?

no that's wrong

[gusty mirage]

that's how it reads

(:

[strange python]

yeah i mean - so is vanish, envenom, mut gonna be better?

seems then that imp garrote is wasted, at least on ST?

I definitely agree there's weird overlap there

[gusty mirage]

looking at the tree at face value

[oak sky]

Im reading it (garrote does 50% and has no cd from stealth) not (garrote does 50%) and (has no cooldown when used from stealth)

[gusty mirage]

with bloody mess & improved garrote

idk how vanish into envenom

would ever be a thing

[strange python]

yeah i agree with this

[oak sky]

Oxi whats bloody mess

[gusty mirage]

right above improved garrote

[oak sky]

Oh yrah

[strange python]

i mean the math will determine that i guess

[oak sky]

Yeah

[gusty mirage]

I mean

envenom has been a wet noodle

for like

ever

[strange python]

but it's not just an envenom

[oak sky]

Idk envenom during MA would always be a gain over something with no instant damage

So like

Thats the conundrum

[gusty mirage]

would it?

[spice spire]

Envenom coping

[strange python]

it's 50% garrote dmg for one iteration of it -- vs a pretty much guaranteed envenom, and 2 mut crits.

[oak sky]

Unless it snapshots crit for some reason

[gusty mirage]

you're basing it on how you're experiencing it now

[oak sky]

?????

[gusty mirage]

where you either get subterfuge vs MA

where have we had a chance to get both

and see that envenom > a dot when those windows overlap

[oak sky]

Well no like its obvious that we're going to vanish garrote rupture because of deathmark

And carnage*

[gusty mirage]

unless garrote is tuned like shit

and all these amps

make it decent

also, if you're playing doomblade + maim

would mut > gar in that window?

[oak sky]

Both of those cds want you to use your bleeds right after

And if you have imp gar it wastes the talent if you dont press it during MA

[gusty mirage]

well the way its set up now

you don't really have a choice

you need venomous

[oak sky]

Yes

[gusty mirage]

you'd just do whatever is mathematically more damage

so I agree, it will feel weird. But that's just how it feels, synergy depends entirely on tuning

if garrote hit like deadly poison? you're never hitting garrote in that 3s window

[oak sky]

Could just move ma over to the left or make a swap or smth like that to give you more options

Or a choice node

But yeah

[gusty mirage]

I'd prefer MA to just be gone

tbh

[oak sky]

If its not 100% its pretty doggers

[gusty mirage]

any guaranteed crit from stealth is a nightmare to balance anyway

case in point: mantle

[oak sky]

This is mostly what im saying tho

Doesnt seem like that area has been talked about

Like it does seem like we end up wasting value by having both, but it would be nice to hear if thats intentional or whatever

[strange python]

I mean it's pretty early in the cycle...so if enough people think it feels weird, bring it up to that dev next time he's on or something...i dunno

[gusty mirage]

that's a byproduct of these kinds of talent trees

[strange python]

do we always take both?

[gusty mirage]

it's for trade offs

[strange python]

i haven't looked at the tree

[gusty mirage]

right now yes

[ebon notch]

i want bleed energy regen

[gusty mirage]

you have to

[ebon notch]

:<

[strange python]

yeah that's what i figured

[gusty mirage]

you need venomous

[oak sky]

Well just generally speaking

[gusty mirage]

and it's non-negotiable

[ebon notch]

why isnt it baseline

[oak sky]

If you go down that path you take both

So any time you have carnage you WILL have both

[ebon notch]

spec isnt really playable without it is it?

[oak sky]

Daps

[gusty mirage]

did you level your rogue as assassination?

[strange python]

The dev said he was gonna try to make it so VW was like impossible'ish to skip so

[oak sky]

Its fine for it to be a 1 pointer early in the tree

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

i boosted it

[gusty mirage]

see

you missed out on the fun

[strange python]

maybe he's gonna move that up too

[gusty mirage]

pretty sure it was talked about moving venomous further up

I wasn't here for it, but that's what I was told at least

[strange python]

I leveled my rogue in 2007 so i have no clue what one would feel like now haha

[oak sky]

Its in the pins

[gusty mirage]

well boys, I leveled 2 rogues in bfa

and let me tell you

[oak sky]

All the most likely changes and stuff talked about went to pins

[gusty mirage]

assassination without venomous is fucking awful

you think it's slow at level 60?

imagine at level 40

and no energy

[oak sky]

I think its fine for early points to be required

Like dks have to take their plague and shit

We have to take vw

Its fine

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

hello ram

im sorry my guild came and trolled in your chat

[echo geyser]

bendie on a bender like usual

[gusty mirage]

idk I'm excited to try out dif shit with these trees when they're finalized

[oak sky]

For sure

Im not saying MA and imp gar needs to change i just want to make sure its been thought about because i think its a fine direction as is but making them more separate or opposed is also a fine direction

[spice spire]

Ram i’m sorry I didn’t come in and troll your chat

[echo geyser]

u are welcome any time

[spice spire]

That’s a mistake

Just like me fr

[oak sky]

I love showing up in rams chat 🐏

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

I love popping into ram's chat

I lurk a lot tho

[spice spire]

Same

He’s often BLASTING while I’m at work

[gusty mirage]

imagine not putting ram on your monitor at work

smh

[teal marten]

Hey guys love the community, appreciative to be here. Just taking the temperature on sepsis/shiv/assassin for pvp. Is it still viable/solid after any recent changes? Thanks so much enjoy playing my rogue again

[balmy condor]

#pvp

[lyric knoll]

damn, not even a “thanks buddy” before showing him the door

[lucid birch]

[timid cloud]

I’m just glad we ain’t gotta pick up Sepsis in 10.0 FRFR

[strange python]

Peeps really don't like sepsis hey, is it just because it's a "meh" skill to press? Or do people think it's just bad?

also nice DP @timid cloud 😄

[timid cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

Both, personally, but also the soulbinds attached to it feel very meh to me as well.

[strange python]

I would have loved to see bone spike appear in the main rogue tree, but I guess I also get why it's not there

[timid cloud]

I’m actually more upset as to why Flag isn’t on Sin as well….

But we gotta see stinky ER & Sepsis.

[strange python]

how much would you really want it? like if flag was in place of ER would you take that whole middle tree for it?

[timid cloud]

Depends on how good it would be for our kit. But maybe. As long as it isn’t 9.0 Flag I do not mind.

[strange python]

I'm mostly just hoping that they rescale the value of dots in general tbh, not just for us, but overall

added bonus to hear all the warlocks complain that they don't wana be aff too

[timid cloud]

After seeing the Warlock mog, I am.

[hollow river]

i'm omega sick of flag

yeet it & delete it

[thorny pond]

anyone have time to peel back my logs here? Could use a fresh take

[timid cloud]

[thorny pond]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NbxC1kgWLAzf9a3T#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=149

[timid cloud]

Well the first thing is gear a bit. You need some better pieces, IQD is a hit or a miss if you don’t get the stats you want.

Unity on hands is so so, but that’s a Moment

[thorny pond]

M+ outlaw hero. too cheap rn to recommit to that, but rotationally. Gear is meh

I missed a potential MfD and it looks like CT uptime was blegh. Relearning not to slam Envenom

[ebon notch]

wait you play the game??

[timid cloud]

Sin parses also depend on kill times to a certain degree.

But less so now that we have Dusk.

[thorny pond]

Yee. V familiar with the spec. Just coming back after a tier of healing and need the kids to correct my shit

[hollow river]

pretty sure i will in s4/10.0

[timid cloud]

Also, you don’t have a second 272 for your offhand?

EON on Off-hand is a Sub/Outlaw thing only. Sin LOVES item level & weapon damage.

Cause muti hits with both weapons.

[thorny pond]

first real dagger unfort

it actually sims better for me

[marble hemlock]

Patrol log analysis

[weak zenith]

question for DF, if you cold blood and then rupture, would that make only one tick of rupture crit? or does it crit for the entire duration?

never played with cold blood in

[hollow river]

atm there's no guaranteeing that cold blood will affect bleeds, as it'd be a nightmare to balance

not sure i'd be expecting that as an interaction atm

[brave gyro]

It's being discussed internally - nothing confirmed yet, but there is a possibility it will work (again, no confirmation)

[pseudo hamlet]

Any notable items we should try to focus on getting in 9.4? Other than EoN+tier set of course.

[oak sky]

Probably gonna be a trinket

Wait for sims but likely to be dreadfire vessel fusion amp ocular gland or maybe sigil

[limber lion]

9.4

[oak sky]

9.2.7

[empty hinge]

EoC from upper Kara can be good

Eye of command

For pure st

[oak sky]

Yeah ive heard that, i just figured i would tell him what i know especially since you can pick a raid trinkey

[empty hinge]

Idk how good bell could be for assa

[limber lion]

We

We'll be playing Hateful Chain + Fusion Amp

:-3

[pseudo hamlet]

ffs, I was thinking season 4 = patch X.4, forgot about 9.0

[cursive orchid]

i mean let's just forget all about 9.0

[strange python]

so is it 9.3 or 9.2.7?

[spice spire]

9.2.7

[strange python]

You know sub might actually be fun again in 10.0 without flagellation

I dunno what it is about that spell, i just hate it

[subtle tundra]

play nightfae

[gusty mirage]

No you

[subtle tundra]

why would i

i like flag

stoopid

[gusty mirage]

Because you can do anything your heart desires. Don’t let your dreams be dreams varas

[thorny pond]

you can even play kyrian

[strange python]

yeah that's what i've been doing. haha

[strange python]

Any early s4 Sims?

[strange python]

Are dungeon items gonna be buyable or just raid

Do we know how long it would take someone to save up enough to buy sylv daggers assuming they just clear heroic and like maybe first 5 mythic each tier?

[swift oak]

I've heard 10 boss kill = token from a guildmate

[strange python]

thanks

[earnest remnant]

it was set to 30 some time ago, but they said they were gonna lower it, dont think they have said what it will be lowered to tho

[violet jackal]

there 3 quests the first one is the biggest hurdle an is reduced each time. So originally it was 30, 20, 10 tokens

[strange python]

I think it's a good idea

I'm guessing eventually you'd be able to upgrade it to mythic without having killed the boss too, with enough tokens.

[empty hinge]

idk

[earnest remnant]

its weps and trinkets from raid (or special items)

like priest ring from anduin

[feral rivet]

Weaps, trinkets, offhands, priest & DK ring, sylv quiver is what was there last i checked

Unless i forgot something

[digital gyro]

How come Shiv increases Serrated Bone Spike damage?

the initial hit I mean

[gusty mirage]

Yeppers

[digital gyro]

whats the correlation?

how does it work like that

[spice spire]

It is a bleed, it is also affected by mastery

[digital gyro]

The initial hit is also a bleed?

How come the intial hit gets increased if I have Shiv up

Initial hit is physical damage while the DOT is bleed

[pure sinew]

if i were to only craft 1 leggo, i want insignia right

[gusty mirage]

Because the dude who designed the set decided it should apply to the initial hit

[gusty mirage]

With tier set you’d want duskwalkers

So if you’re going to craft only 1 for the rest of the tier, just make dusk

[pure sinew]

when is dashing better

[night delta]

last patch

[gusty mirage]

Anytime prior to the 4pc, but you’ll eventually get the tier set when you start getting drops. You can use the catalyst 25 times now? I think

[night delta]

it's good when you lack energy overall, which you don't when you're equipped well enough this season

[spice spire]

30

[gusty mirage]

Yeah it’s easier than ever to get the tier set now. And you don’t even have to step foot into raid

So I wouldn’t bother crafting anything else

[pure sinew]

the cap is cosmic flux at this point

[night delta]

so i wouldn't recommend spending a lot on dashing, maybe on a low tier legendary but definitely not max ilvl

[pure sinew]

but yeah

dashing was competitive during 9.2 theorycrafting right

before they nerfed some stuff for tier set

[gusty mirage]

Yeah early on before 4pc was available

Dashing was the play for venthyr sin rogues

But it was always dusk with 4pc even before they nerfed the 2pc from 100% to 40%

[celest ruin]

is demo a better pi target than assa for p1 jailer?

[violet jackal]

Most likely assuming all things equal

[sand sigil]

how come general raid tree doesn't take db?

wasn't db like an 8-10% leggo s1 nice bis and only overshadowed by dashing cuz of frost set

cant u 1/2 cut and pick up db for lethal dose?

then u still have ct

[main solar]

Doomblade? It only has the bleed portion. It doesnt have the buffed envenom per bleed like the leggo does.

[sand sigil]

yeh but now it has lethal dose interaction

so it's a flat x% damage increase

and x% times 2 in deathmark

[bleak sky]

depends on how you want to build right

that's really just a sample tree

[marble hemlock]

large part of the DB value came from frost shards

[main solar]

LD 100% getting nerfed, but we're not sure how they're changing it. So who knows

[bleak sky]

you could do a more "builder" focused tree, could do exsang, could not

[sand sigil]

db was still goat in nathria though

and actually a lot of ppl played db pre frost shard sanctum iirc

[marble hemlock]

not really. its just that all the other legendaries were worse. but db wasnt a "good" legendary

[sand sigil]

i guesssss

[marble hemlock]

so while it was the "best" legendary, it was still very much mediocre

[bleak sky]

but nothing stops you from building like this

or something similar

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, as someone else said, theres definitely a world where it can win over any of the other picks

theres a bunch of flex picks there thatll just come down to tuning

[sand sigil]

i just remember ct vs pb pre tier was like a 80 dps gain to take pb. so ur effectively looking at a 1 point comparison of ct vs db at the very least and we picked ct. but in my head db sounds better ST. but then u also have the option of cut vs db and at least there 1/2 cut + db def sounds better than 2/2 cut maybe im crazy

[balmy condor]

I should put the disclaimer back tbh

[main solar]

Yeah, I'd probably take it myself personally. But we already know the tree is changing a bit, so not worth arguing over min max damage.

[sand sigil]

but venom rush has to be goat for 1 point right

[bleak sky]

for sure

[sand sigil]

it's not rlly arguing it's more of

[bleak sky]

the tree I want is
-ct -exsang
+maim mangle +venom rush

[sand sigil]

a discussion pertaining to relative power of talents so i can stay on top of the game

so that when rogue works on alpha i can just go in there and BANG

if u get out of touch then u got 2x the work to do

[bleak sky]

man just wants to garret 1 2 3 fok fok ct and do 40k damage

[sand sigil]

so i was just making sure i wasn't out of touch

and db sucked or something

[balmy condor]

The current thing is we don’t know

Talents are confirmed moving around and getting tuned

DB might be good now, but then venomous wounds moves and lethal dose gets neutered (both confirmed)

And then what are you gonna do

[sand sigil]

it was mainly in a vacuum the idea of db + lethal dose versus ct

not even a question pertaining to this specific tree

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’m just saying that entire side of the tree could end up dead

[sand sigil]

cuz then if things get moved i can be knowledgeable ya see

[balmy condor]

If lethal dose sucks

[sand sigil]

if lethal dose sucks

[main solar]

wild thought, keep lethal dose the same, but put it in TTB's spot

[balmy condor]

In it’s current form it’s better than vendetta

And dance is also better than vendetta

And also we have a vendetta replacement with Deathmark

You have 3 vendettas

[sand sigil]

it's big sadge i went to hit the dummies and nothin works :/ no dbl lethal poisons no death mark no nothin

even tho deathmark doesn't say nyi

[balmy condor]

Yeah

And by the time it works

The tree will change

[main solar]

doesnt garrote not even work atm?

[sand sigil]

u can garrote enemies

[balmy condor]

Realz said rogue stuff in 2-3 weeks

[sand sigil]

my question is how long until we can use addons cuz pressing deathmark and seeing cloak evasion slice all pop up on my personal resource display is 🤔

[copper hazel]

alpha be alpha i guess

[bleak sky]

gotta wait til beta I guess?

unless someone good with addons got alpha as well

[copper hazel]

arent they just straight up disabled or is it a matter of them having to be updated to work with the version

[main solar]

Wonder if the UI revampe will have a WA like feature as well

[sand sigil]

well ok does anyone know if silence garrote supposed to work w carnage? cuz picture this. evoker roar -> 9s mass silence garrote -> 4.5s leg sweep HOLY

[night delta]

what I'm excited about is the new amp poison shenanigans

[sand sigil]

apparently it's against the rules to edit addons like details to work w alpha

that's what i heard anyways

[bleak sky]

monka

[night delta]

and honestly if it ends up very strong one might benefit from not too much clutter in order to spam envenoms effectively

things like CT or even exsang might have to go, which honestly i don't mind :p

[bleak sky]

sounds like it should work tbh

but gotta wait until stuff gets implemented sadge

[main solar]

I think the idea is that if it seems like it should work based on wording, then it will. Barring tuning later on.

[night delta]

Anyone got to the same conclusion on the class tree for the moment ?

[limber lion]

Nope

Cheat too good, Shadow Dance op

Deeper Strata useless for Assa

[main solar]

think the word is we only really need 2 points in alacrity as well right?

[gusty mirage]

think of the extended duration on the bleeds

[night delta]

I was thinking with the excess crit we now get we might more reliably get to 5-6 cp in two GCDs ?

[limber lion]

Correct

[limber lion]

Deeper Stratagem doesn't have the increased finisher damage portion on it in the Dragonflight talent tree

So it's only an extra combo point, nothing else.

Doesn't do much for our spec.

You spend 2 extra points to get it, which is not great.

[gusty mirage]

start of an expac is always rough for secondary stats as well

assuming they squish again to reel back some of the power creep

[night delta]

oh wow it was saying bonus dmg in the simulated tree on wowhead before alpha dropped

seems alpha busted that myth

[gusty mirage]

it was probably pulling the old deeper strata from live

for the spell data

[main solar]

think the trees had to grab data spells from what we already had until alpha dropped yeah

[night delta]

though now i can't reach shadow dance without dropping either alacrity, vigor or seal fate

[limber lion]

Wowhead just had the wrong tooltip, they made the trees very quickly to get them up asap

The description in the blue post was accurate.

But yeh, Shadow Dance is probably op, so you need to get it

even if that means dropping every other talent

[gusty mirage]

you'd just drop vigor ig

[night delta]

.0 patch without vigor tho oof

that energy, bettrer hope we got it from somewhere else

[burnt latch]

I refuse to believe any rogue would make a talent tree and not pick cheat death

[night delta]

or else that'll feel anemic af

[burnt latch]

Biggest dps gain talent

[gusty mirage]

you get dashing

it'll be fine without vigor

[night delta]

hope so 🙂

[burnt latch]

The real question is how will i convince my guild that 3 yards extra melee range will be more useful on prog than elusiveness

Im still working on it but ill figure it out

[night delta]

I mean... you gotta have the range to get to elusiveness anyway atm, no ?

[burnt latch]

Oh i thought that wasnt required

[night delta]

yeah on the tree it's directly under

[burnt latch]

Well great news im officially unkillable in DF

[night delta]

laughs in Necro-rogue from 9.1

[bleak sky]

not really (absolutely mandatory)

almost had a stroke typing that out