assassination

[oak sky]

Not me but

Yeah

[cursive orchid]

i don't

[oak sky]

More buttons bad i guess

[cursive orchid]

it's just not interesting and right no you press it literally on cd

[slow marsh]

yeah i'm more referencing DF talents but

[thorn fjord]

@balmy condor https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2jStNzsHxAafKCUAfobJHz this was the other sim

only difference is Sinful on MH vs celestial i guess but it cant be THAT much of a dps difference

[midnight mist]

this is different

idk if it change something

could be that ur offhand is using oil

while the other is using double stones

[thorn fjord]

Weird I thought they both were using stone

[velvet ridge]

I used to like mfd when I was a youngling rogue. But now I'd rather not spec in to it if I can. I like it for PvP, but not pve

Id be okay with it on sub and law, but not sin

[thorn fjord]

Mfd is a lame button tbh

[slow marsh]

Ehhhh I think it's only viewed as lame for us cuz we don't get any cdr type effects like the other specs do

[thorn fjord]

Just doesn’t feel good in it’s current state where it’s main purpose is too give more flag stacks

Like in pvp when it would give that extra envenom that would feel pretty nice or mfd to Kidney etc

But In pve it’s just really under whelming

It’s not awful

[midnight mist]

its my favorite ability cause of the reset on death thing

I think its really interesting when u can minmax it a bit

[thorn fjord]

Yeah spamming mfd to finisher in open world or dungeons feels cool but its kind of a gimmick lol

[midnight mist]

wdym a gimmick?

[thorn fjord]

Gives you a slight thrill

[obtuse robin]

def not a gimmick

ks is a gimmick

[thorn fjord]

I meant how he said ot

The example zac used

[midnight mist]

the reset on death?

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

Don’t get me wrong

It’s a beautiful thing

Without it mfd would be even more zzzzz

[midnight mist]

I dont think thats a gimmick at all

but im just talking from an outlaw perspective

[cursive summit]

mfd kinda boring, but its a good tool to have

[thorn fjord]

I think it makes more sense for the other specs than it does us but here we are lol

[midnight mist]

its amazijng when u play it well in dg

[obtuse robin]

also its 1 min now right for sin?

thats a change correcct

[thorn fjord]

Mfd makes total sense for outlaw I think

[obtuse robin]

it makes less sense for outlaw

they generate cp out their ass

[midnight mist]

yeah we need it less

[thorn fjord]

Well when Rtb used to cost cop

Cp

Not now

[midnight mist]

idk about that, wasnt playing at that time

just right now in sl

I think its a really cool spell

[thorn fjord]

Yeah you would usually have to take mfd to rtb pre pull

Always

[midnight mist]

and really satisfying when u can play around it well

(mostly a dg thing tbf)

I can see why in raid u dont like it

[oak sky]

Whatever it is on alpha, but like spec auras and shit might be applied to it or applied later so

[thorn fjord]

Yeah outside of raid MFD is fucking sexy

[obtuse robin]

i see

[thorn fjord]

Im gonna jump back in to arenas during S4 now that I don’t have to worry about prog

That’ll be fun

Mfd is essential in pvp lol

[velvet ridge]

Brooooo, what if we get a zed ulti

Mfd, mark the target for 8 secs. Repeat all damage you dealt at the end

Gives a reason for exsang too

Maybe not 100% dmg, but

[bleak sky]

there's already a reason for exsang

[velvet ridge]

Yeah, I think cold blood and mfd are great for pvp, sad that they are both mando talents now though

[sharp falcon]

People obviously noticed there are no choice nodes in the Rogue trees, and we'll probably add a few. Nothing concrete yet of course, but your feedback about those two is pretty common, and it's not hard to imagine how those nodes might benefit from becoming choice nodes

[gusty mirage]

It'll be interesting to see how you balance things moving forward. I can only imagine how big of a PIA it is to work on a talent revamp

[balmy condor]

Mfd choice node so I can avoid it

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

[amber fossil]

as someone who plays what's fun rather than the highest dmg spec and cov, I am hoping there is balance between all the trees

highest dmg does not always equal highest fun

[balmy condor]

I agree

But I think a lot of that also is just community perception playing the max simdps

[bleak sky]

But if the damage doesn't matter, aren't you gonna play what's fun anyway?

[balmy condor]

Seli played a lot of necro even though it’s the worst covenant numerically

[bleak sky]

You can't balance "fun", can you?

[amber fossil]

I for sure will, but balance will make it easier to get a inv. Some grps see Necro Sin and pass you by

[meager granite]

Decrease number of buttons to make TB and shiv a reality !

[oak sky]

Try not to mention ttb challenge (99% will fail)

[meager granite]

@sharp falcon Are you also the one deciding which spell is going to be on the gcd or not as part of the talent revamp? If so are their some changes to already known spells / which new spells are out of the gcd?

[marble hemlock]

[sharp falcon]

That's a pretty broad question, and definitely and an interesting one... I guess the answer is yes and no but mostly no.

[bleak sky]

Gcd changes

[oak sky]

Bro we dont need gcd changes

[toxic locust]

yea i was thinking, what rogue spell should be off the gcd?

[oak sky]

What would we have off thats new literally like carnage and cold blood

[toxic locust]

is deathmark on the gcd?

[marble hemlock]

crimson vial

[oak sky]

Good take seli love that

My favorite defensige

[toxic locust]

what class has an off gcd heal

hmm

[sharp falcon]

If I designed a new skill to be used by Rogue, I clearly have an intent and first crack at whether or not it's on GCD. Even then, it's not entirely up to me. As far as old skills, I can propose changes on or off, but it's overall a part of a larger discussion and I certainly don't have the final say

[meager granite]

I always felt like spell which are part of burst but not direct damange in the gcd (like vendetta in BFA) was just a big FU because you would lose 1 or 2 seconds before actually being able to use its effect

and overall felt really bad to play

[oak sky]

Idea might be since its essentially a potion

[toxic locust]

i think defensives like vial and feint are fine on the gcd

[meager granite]

What about ICarnage then? I guess Deathmark is out of gcd if it replaces vendetta?

[bleak sky]

Feint off gcd

Prayge

[oak sky]

Yeah thats never happening

Actually

[toxic locust]

the things i'd be concerned about are carnage, deathmark

[oak sky]

I would press it and reality would break open

[marble hemlock]

psure a bunch of classes either have auto-triggering heals or off-gcd heals if its only for themselves. doesnt always come in the form of a heal, but shield etc.

but yeah, heals typically are on the GCD

i just dont like how most rogue defensives are on the GCD (if they even work)

only off-gcd defensives we have are our 2 immunities

[oak sky]

Feint i think makes the most sense because most walls are off gcd

[marble hemlock]

feint is too powerful to be off gcd

[oak sky]

But yeah

That too

[marble hemlock]

and CV is a kinda mediocre heal

and our only other defensive

[oak sky]

20% aint nothing but its not crazy either

Ill press cv at 10% then get insta lay on hands

[marble hemlock]

20% over 4 seconds is pretty much nothing

[balmy condor]

The new Iron stomach talent in the third row of our class talent tree can help increase this bonus, Seliathan

[marble hemlock]

you want me to talk about lethal poisons again? cause this is how you get that

[balmy condor]

Honestly rogue defensives are fine

We’re so giga tanky already

Who cares man

[sharp falcon]

Deathmark is on GCD, that was one aspect of the impetus behind its redesign from previously-Vendetta into now-Deathmark. We wanted to try changing some of the more pure-steroid off-GCD signature cooldowns to be more weighty and impactful in the moment that they would feel worthwhile even though they'd now be on GCD. Deathmark is itself an attack that applies a damaging bleed, so yeah definitely GCD

[marble hemlock]

btw

[sharp falcon]

Carnage off GCD is the intent, same for Keep it Rolling

[marble hemlock]

in a feverish dream i was thinking about another thistle tea thing

gimme your thoughts whispyr:

[balmy condor]

Oh no

[bleak sky]

Don't mind deathmark being on gcd

[meager granite]

Error 404 spell unknown

[marble hemlock]

Thistle Tea: Increases all your energy gains by 100% (number can be changed ofc) for 10 seconds. Reduces your Global Cooldown by .3 seconds.

[sharp falcon]

RSI Simulator Deluxe

[marble hemlock]

So basically, Adrenaline Rush

[balmy condor]

squints

[meager granite]

we outlawboyz now?

[bleak sky]

Mr dev wrong spec

[marble hemlock]

Idk, I just want an option to dump energy somehow, and the only way to do that is by reducing GCD or making skills cost more energy 😦

[thorn fjord]

Do you bring that mad juju

Dont*

[sharp falcon]

I think about this a lot

[balmy condor]

You just columbussed adrenaline rush seli

[marble hemlock]

Thanks.

[balmy condor]

How do YOU think I’m gonna respond

[marble hemlock]

It's always felt bad that we oversaturate on Energy generation in AoE so hard and have absolutely no way to utilize it 😦

[balmy condor]

Rank 2 crimson tempest

Make it eat all your energy

Like that one feral thing

[bleak sky]

And then you have all your energy back 2 sec later

CT spam viable

[thorn fjord]

I wouldn’t mind that tbh

But I’m smooth brain

[chilly marsh]

i like that idea a lot

[balmy condor]

Oh here’s an idea ready

You give CT the hold down effect from evoker

[marble hemlock]

Well, the way I look at it is that if there was an option to "consume" your bleeds so you would have to re-ramp, that would basically fix that issue. But whatever consumes those bleeds has to be very very powerful in terms of individual damage in order to make up for losing all your bleeds.

[meager granite]

Just to make sure of how the spell works. Does it duplicates bleeds you already have on the target or do you have to reapply them to have them duplicated (that's what i understand from tooltip)?

[bleak sky]

Though CT spam feels a little cringe

[balmy condor]

You hold it down, and it eats your energy, slows down your regen for 3 seconds

[chilly marsh]

spells deals more dmg but spend more energy if your regen more than X per sec

[balmy condor]

And when you release it

It does big damage

[bleak sky]

[lilac haven]

That would be cool

[bleak sky]

Actual interesting idea from community figure whispyr

[balmy condor]

Like you’re winding up a CT

[meager granite]

Seli just wanna rip. He spent too much time in Torghast help him !

[marble hemlock]

Have CT eat up all your current Ruptures and Garrotes, and that is your CT damage now, so after using it you have to re-ramp.

[thorn fjord]

Would need a consistent way of spreading rupture tho

[meager granite]

oh man, reapplying garotte with the CD will be looong and with no venomous wound effect

[chilly marsh]

that would be horrible lol

[meager granite]

the energy feels bad already

[lilac haven]

Tea gamers

[chilly marsh]

infinite reapply nightmare

[marble hemlock]

Youd be max energy at that point anyway, you can easily re-apply bleeds and saturate your regen again before you run out of energy.

[thorn fjord]

That wouldn’t feel like a chore?

[chilly marsh]

you would never evenenon only reaply > ct remove : reaply

[marble hemlock]

It would feel very rogue~ish because youd be building up to a big release, which has always been the core of the Combopoints/Finisher system. We just lost that along the way.

[cinder scaffold]

If it did all the bleed damage on consume your burst would be nutty in aoe. But it would invalidate stuff like exsanguinate in ST. Its just the same thing but instant

[marble hemlock]

Oh no, Exsanguinate would be obsolete? How terrible

[balmy condor]

Or, a buff that captures your overcapped energy in combat right, and then when you press fok, the knives cause poisoned enemies affected by poison to explode, dealing damage in a small aoe. The stacks could increase the damage, the aoe, the amount of targets that explode. Like say you overcap 500 energy, you fok, it causes 5 targets to explode

Or when you press CT

[marble hemlock]

I kinda like that, actually. But don't make it with FoK

[balmy condor]

Or when you press envenom it cleaves targets

[cinder scaffold]

I mean i wouldnt be sad

[marble hemlock]

Builders already have enough power.

[sharp falcon]

It's an interesting idea - though do I think it's easy to end up in this type of circumstance (energy overflow) and having CT as the only 'out' might be too narrow and limiting, for a skill that should mostly be opt-in

[thorn fjord]

Those things kinda sound like uhdk @balmy condor

Or am I buggin

[balmy condor]

Never played it

[toxic locust]

i like the idea of something that "stores" the overflowed energy and does something with it

[marble hemlock]

Some way to use overcapped energy somehow would definitely be sick. Even something as simple as "for every 100 overcapped energy, your next ability strikes an additional target" or smth

[meager granite]

Seli, wouldn't that make CT mandatory in ST also and we would just bleed up and rip and so on

[marble hemlock]

Yes.

[chilly marsh]

heres a idea. you can stock 100 extra energy. and your skills can consume more energy direct from this stock to deal X% increased dmg

[thorn fjord]

I would much rather something different for ST over having to keep using CT

[cinder scaffold]

Whatever makes assass good in keys and doesnt require 24+ fortified mob HP to actually make dots relevant would be good

[thorn fjord]

I personally do not like ct during st

[marble hemlock]

The Assa st rotation is incredibly simplistic, adding an extra button to it doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.

[thorn fjord]

Slows down the pace imo

I love smashing envenom and getting Huge procs

[meager granite]

but then you would just remove envenom from the equation and simplify even more

[marble hemlock]

I'm also not even sure if consuming bleeds on ST would be a gain, considering you do not have energy saturation on ST

But yeah, some mechanic that lets us benefit from moments of high resource generation, whether its AoE, during CDs with Bloodlust or a boss mechanic that grants large amounts of haste, would be nice. Because most classes really benefit from these environments, and we kinda don't, beyond the faster ticking dots ofc.

[thorn fjord]

The old Exsang build from tier 1 legion was a lot of fun too.. you had to manage bleed upkeep more while still getting to cast envenom a regularly

I’m a kingsbane fan tho

[meager granite]

Realz, the bleed from deathmark isn't affected by venomous wounds. is it intended? just checking cuz more energy is always gucci you know

[chilly marsh]

rogue is really bugged on alpha

[lilac haven]

Think he said it was

[marble hemlock]

Well yeah, ultimately I'd just like Vein Ripper to somehow make a return, that's true. 😄

[oak sky]

I liked venripper in torgy it was kinda cool

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jbiix/4767d3ef05.png

I wanna marry it

Just dont have it linked to VAnish

Just change Exsanguinate into that. Yes please :3

[meager granite]

well the idea behind it is very interesting and fits verywell into the fantasy of the class. i liked it a lot too

[marble hemlock]

Exsanguinate is still a fitting name for how it works mechanically too

Can use it for big burst mid-pull, or at the end of a trash pull to go into the next one with a lot of extra Agi :3

[meager granite]

btw exsang reducing all bleeds by half, means that if used with deathmark, we only got a 7 sec deathmark (same window to duplicate bleeds aswell)

?

[marble hemlock]

That's a good question, actually

[meager granite]

my brain is way too active tonight

[chilly marsh]

yes

[balmy condor]

Okay now I’m getting crazy complicated with it aight check it.

You are in a blood stance. While in blood stance, casting a bleed stores a blood charge. Upon reaching 1000 overcapped energy, you release the blood charges, empowering your next envenom to hit multiple targets, and infect the enemies hit with infected blood, a short term bleed effect. This envenom swaps you into poison stance. While in poison stance, generators that apply poisons grant a poison charge. Upon applying 50 poisons, you release your poison charges, causing your next bleed to also apply infected blood.

The number of blood charges cause envenom to hit more targets, the number of poison charges increases the damage done from infected blood

Any stance swappers

[chilly marsh]

the way it is now using exng reduce the big buff you get from letal lose by half

[amber fossil]

Cauterize- Searing all bleeds instantly at a cost of all energy, higher energy = higher dmg

[obtuse robin]

[meager granite]

if it does reduces the window of deathmark, that would suck big time imo

[balmy condor]

Give me stance swap

[chilly marsh]

crazy but a passive that stores overcapped energy to do something like kyrian broon is a good idea

we would not waste energy never

[meager granite]

i played holy priest in WoD, i despise stances ! and we had the hand on changing them !
However the idea of poisons making bleeds stronger and vice versa could be cool

[sharp falcon]

applied post

[meager granite]

so 3 gcd to actually have the effect

[sharp falcon]

so Deathmark when you're going to want/need to reapply then

right now the bleeds trail off the end of the effect

also remember there's poisons

if it just duplicated what was there, you wouldn't get multi poison applications, it's not all bad

[obtuse robin]

could of swore i read it duplicates current

changed i guess

[balmy condor]

I’m thinking about dawn warrior from maplestory tbh. They have a sun/moon stance effect, sun is generally bigger aoe, moon is smaller, more targeted damage. You can combo sun and moon skills together though which is more damage because when you combo you get the effect of both sun and moon together. I feel like that’s real cool for bleed/poison as well, but probably way too ambitious tbh

[sharp falcon]

not changed, just maybe not as clear as it could be, if that's a common impression

[sharp falcon]

the vibe of this is really cool and i could see how it ends up with satisfying gameplay. I don't know if the best WoW place to aim it is rogue bleed/poison, but just sort of a general comment that it's definitely a cool concept

[strange python]

Oh hey - did we get clarification on the mutilate 50% nature damage talent -- is it 50% BONUS damage - or is it like 50% of its total damage (more like armor pen)?

[balmy condor]

Maybe 2 Red Bulls was not a good idea I’m off the juice

[chilly marsh]

While in combat any unused energy is stored and when this amount get to 1000 release a powerful wave of poison to all enemies 10y making then take X dmg.

[sharp falcon]

we did, it's conversion as you see it written, but it will be changed to "as extra" with smaller numbers (because 25%/50% is insane)

[meager granite]

I just wanted to make sure i understood correctly, but the fact that DM is on gcd and we will need to reapply garotte and rupture means that we would "lose" some seconds of effects. Also i think it was mentionned that bleeds reapplied (so duplicated) before DM expiration would still be on the target after debuff was gone (Whispyr loves snapshots)

[strange python]

Thanks man!

[marble hemlock]

how many does it take for you to smell ants?

[velvet ridge]

yeah i really like vein rippers, if it was an actual button and not on vanish, seems good and fun and thematic

[balmy condor]

Yeah for sure. I think other games even if the combat is different have a lot of interesting core designs that can be iterated on and improved to fit the vision better. Obviously something that works in a 2D platform er like maplestory isn’t a 1 to 1 with world of Warcraft, but trying to fit concepts from other games into wow has always been fascinating to me

[sharp falcon]

it 'loses' a couple seconds in some manner of viewing it, but right now the duplicated effects trail off the end of the effect as well. I am worried though that it might be too annoying to apply+apply, then have high incentive to apply+apply again right at the end .... if that ends up being too painful, there are options to modify the finer details of the effect

[velvet ridge]

moonkin lunar solar stuff, but poison bleed

[balmy condor]

0, ants have a pungent smell when you squish them it is a fact i will not be gaslit on this

[meager granite]

we are doing that currently with tier sets so ...

but for sure we would apply +apply before it ends

[obtuse robin]

tbf we are used to doing this on live right now

[balmy condor]

(And I think the live overhang is unintuitive as well because I’m on a crusade against snapshotting)

[sharp falcon]

I'm not jumping to change anything about the finer details right now though, and it would be hard to convince me to. It's something I want to get more actual playtest feedback on over time

[strange python]

I don't really enjoy it either honestly

but whatever

[sharp falcon]

it's not snapshotting though, but sure =p

[balmy condor]

If it didn’t overhang I wouldn’t have to have made stuff like this in an attempt to visualize it for people

And then get questions like “what about if it’s 4 seconds left

[obtuse robin]

i enjoy the the extra skill cap of overhang/snapshotting but i can see how more cuasual players could find this annoying

[velvet ridge]

i also like snapshotting

[strange python]

It's just really tough to make a weakaura for it (i make all my own so)

It's easy when the vendetta is on the enemy however

[balmy condor]

I think having to make a weakaura for it is already too much tbh

Like if you have to get a weakaura to track something the game tracks for you already, fine

[meager granite]

Could you please clarify deathmark interaction with exsang, cause that could make/break the usage of the talent point 😦

[strange python]

I mean my weakaura lights up when rupture needs refreshed (in the pandemic window) - ya know...and it changes so

[obtuse robin]

i just look at my ven cd on my afner ui

or time left rather

[balmy condor]

But if you’re making a weakaura for that tracks when you need to refresh an invisible overhang mechanic

That’s not great

[strange python]

It's tuned for 4p - triggers off vendetta being present on the target.

But then when vendetta goes away - it goes back to refresh at 6 sec you know

But that final one, you really dont wanna refresh with a "weaker version" til it falls off completely.

[balmy condor]

Yeah and then you need to also make it so it ignores that bleed specifically that you overhung

[strange python]

yeah

[balmy condor]

To let that tick to the end

[obtuse robin]

a new player would look at the 4pc and never figure out its mechnics unless someone told him

[sharp falcon]

Yeah it sure could, couldn't it! Exsang has had so many problems and exceptions in the past that I'm going to chat about it with some others. For now it's whatever you speculate the default behavior might be =p

[strange python]

I mean imagine the new player that skips Venemous Wounds...

and is playing at 12 APM

cause it doesn't "sound great"

[balmy condor]

Hasted bleeds are easy enough to understand

20% haste 20% faster

[obtuse robin]

making whyspr a happy boy

[sharp falcon]

Gonna try to make it really unlikely

[balmy condor]

But then you throw in exsang and stuff

And you’re like

Bruh

[meager granite]

[obtuse robin]

vw while goated just makes the case for itself to be baseline , the spec cant operate without it

seal of fate feels the same way in aoe

[meager granite]

it could be the first talent in the tree, noone would bat an eye

[obtuse robin]

yea

but the illusion of choice is not a thing with that talent

[meager granite]

or it could even be baseline on the spec

[obtuse robin]

it does how ever because its so good makes going down paths feel great

so i can see that now yea

[meager granite]

i can imagine newbies trying the spec without it and saying "damn this is slow!"

[ebon notch]

yeah stuff like "you get energy from bleeds" should be baked in

because the spec doesnt really function properly without it

[obtuse robin]

make go down the middle to deathmark and i dont think anyone doesnt take it

[ebon notch]

are there any suggested builds without it?

[obtuse robin]

no

[balmy condor]

Without VW?

Not happening

Maybe if dashing is buffed to 2 energy and you take dragon tempered

But sketch

[final star]

It makes you think that should something that the spec flat out requires to be playable should be made baseline (or buff energy gain itself)

[marble hemlock]

isnt VW moving up in the world anyway

[velvet ridge]

i mean, rotational abilites are "required"

[marble hemlock]

so its kinda easy to pick up

[obtuse robin]

yea we were talkign more about new players

they might not take it and think assa is cring

[balmy condor]

Yes

[oak sky]

Its a good thing for sure

Means you arent forced to always talent up to it in that right side of the tree

[ebon notch]

arent you meant to be on a plane?

[oak sky]

Im in maui bro

Im there

[spice isle]

hey guys, noob sin question, when do we prioritize envenom over CT(other than when CT dot is already on the target ofc)?
in my Sim CT uptime is only 88%, while my dummy 5min has CT at close to 99%, I end up using CT 10 more times than Sim and envenom 10 fewer times, and didn't beat sim results so I'm trying to understand why envenom is preferred

[ebon notch]

to keep up SnD

SnD has omega prio over everything else

[spice isle]

yea that, my SnD was kept 100% so i don't think its that

[cursive orchid]

when you press shiv and have conduit

[ebon notch]

this is incorrect

envenom is lower prio than CT in most situations

[ebon notch]

wdym

you asked when you prio envenom

that is when you prio envenom

raid is not like a target dummy

you will not be able to maintain 100% uptime on everything while also doing mechanics

and adjusting cd timings

[balmy condor]

yeh

it's not possible to have 100% uptime on all 3 bleeds and snd at the same time

[spice isle]

i was wondering why the most optimal rotation from sim results have only 88% on CT uptime, and used more envenom when they could switched some of them to CT for higher uptime

[balmy condor]

you wil eventualy have to sacrifice some

[balmy condor]

because maintaining snd is more important

you are forced to drop CT at some points

[ebon notch]

here you go

rank 4 jailer

check my uptimes

[spice isle]

in the faq it mentioned that CT has higher value than envenom outside of shiv window, so does it imply that envenom is more important?

[balmy condor]

because envenom maintains SND

CT during shiv is fine

[cursive orchid]

how so? it's 42% nature damage up

[ebon notch]

because envenom is not the bulk of our damage

look at my breakdown in that screenshot

[oak sky]

Shiv has a bleed amp from the tier set

[balmy condor]

^

[ebon notch]

go and actually holiday smh

why you on discord

[oak sky]

Because i have downtime

When im chilling

[cursive orchid]

and this amp is like which kind?

[balmy condor]

I just edited the faq entry to reflect it

[cursive orchid]

zoldyck kind?

[balmy condor]

yes

[cursive orchid]

goddamit

[balmy condor]

it's poisons and bleeds, not envenom

[spice isle]

thanks, so is CT usually the top of the list on ST?

[oak sky]

Jailer has adds

But normally decently high

Even on skolex/halondrus

Maybe not top maybe top

[ebon notch]

here is skolex

[spice isle]

lol is that 2 executes from IQD?

[balmy condor]

1 execute

2 casts

1 hit

the first cast didn't do damage

[spice isle]

oh right

[ebon notch]

ye im garbage

i forgot to click off the boss

[spice isle]

well might give mana regen to some healers if you did

[ebon notch]

nah i pay attention to their mana

id rather just not press it

[oak sky]

Wheres your sigil bro iqd is NOT FUN

[cursive orchid]

okay i am getting this so Poisisons = weapon poisons and poisons = nature damage

[oak sky]

Dont fight timing me

[spice isle]

so this is mine on a dummy for 6mins

does anything look off to you guys?

might have touched the 2 little guys on the side with CT

[final star]

/target daps
/use IQD
/targetlasttarget

[ebon notch]

did i mention im also lazy

[ebon notch]

you almost certainly did lmao

[balmy condor]

Mastery affects: Weapon poisons, Envenom, Poison Bomb, Rupture, Garrote, CT
Zoldyck affects: Weapon poisons, Poison Bomb, Rupture, Garrote, CT
Shiv affects: Weapon poisons, Shiv, Envenom, Poison Bomb, Sepsis
Dashing affects: Weapon poisons, Poison Bomb, Envenom
Two set bonus affects: Weapon Poisons, Rupture, Garrote, CT
Four set bonus affects: Weapon Poisons, Rupture, Garrote, CT

[ebon notch]

just go pug heroic or smth no?

[cursive orchid]

thanks whispyr! how did you get it figured out? slapping target dummies? (cuz that is what i usually do :/)

[spice isle]

yea i think i should. any tips on mythic jailer? like refreshing dots as much as i can before LoS?

[balmy condor]

years of knowledge from community testing

[worn panther]

Extensive ages of game knowledge

[ebon notch]

just get into the flow

learn what your timings are

and make sure you match with them

also cloak the first oppression and gate late

[worn panther]

You can gate really, really late and you'll be fineç

[ebon notch]

yeah no

[worn panther]

Ample time to reapply dots if needed

[ebon notch]

you gate the moment he walks out of melee range

uptime is king

you want 100% uptime until vendetta ends

[spice isle]

why gate instead of following him? so we get the azerite buff?

[balmy condor]

the question of "does X interact with Y" comes up so frequently that after beta/PTR testing happens and the effect is logged, I just memorize the interactions (or lack of interactions), and then either put them in the FAQ if it's that commonly asked, or just regurgitate the info when asked like a bird feeding its young

[worn panther]

Oh, I refer to like people who INSTA-gate and then complain they lost uptime because of game mechanics

xD

[ebon notch]

everyone will gate

but you cloak oppression and gate late to not lose uptime

[spice isle]

alright, i'm gonna study some logs and prepare, thanks for those info, lots of help ❤️

[ebon notch]

np

[oak sky]

Good luck friend

[ebon notch]

u2

[burnt latch]

Good morning / night to every wonderful person here!

[lucid birch]

You too bestie

[spice spire]

No you, mister warcieft.
Hope you have a blessed day

[burnt latch]

Thank you kind sirs

Very early morning for me

Should be forbidden on saturdays

[spice spire]

I’ve been awake for 21 hours so

[burnt latch]

Thats a angle fo sho

[cerulean nest]

anyone know which week legion timewalking is back

september?

[gusty mirage]

august

[slow marsh]

go to sleep sir

[gusty mirage]

https://www.wowhead.com/event=1263/timewalking-dungeon-event

[drifting cloud]

mecha rings prolly better than court right?

[burnt latch]

LIT

[balmy condor]

if you can tell me that the effect works and what the max ilvl is for them I would gladly sim it

I have to do guide updates for season 4 soon

but there is a big issue

that being no one has any fucking clue how m+ gear works

and barely an idea how raid gear works

so I'm sitting here like

yes

guide updates

with the new info

that doesn't exist

[drifting cloud]

yeah but it wont really take much for them to beat court ring :p

50 haste should already be enough and its probably quite a bit more

[balmy condor]

okay

does the legacy effect work then??

[drifting cloud]

is it even legacy?

I just assumed you dropped them because of ilvl loss

[balmy condor]

on live it's locked to level 50

so

[drifting cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/interesting-batman-very-interesting-thinking-gif-16421084

[balmy condor]

I was waiting for another post about season 4

but atm I think I'm just going to have to make some shit up

and then fix it when it goes live

[drifting cloud]

regarding item level, thats datamined?

or well it just follows the standard +26

and safe to assume vault will be the 8 dungeons, socket item maybe theres a new one or they just change tooltip so it works on season 4 stuff aswell

I guess its funky so youre guessing alot but would be funny if some of these systems were just left back in season3

[balmy condor]

I mean yeah

it's all assumptions

we assume it's +26

and the vault works the same

and the mega dungeons can be in the vault

that's what we're sorta basing everything off of

but blizzard hasn't come out and said how it's working

the thing we do know is the coin system from fated

and uh,............

[drifting cloud]

https://ptr.wowdb.com/items/192438-cache-of-fated-treasures you have stuff like this from ptr

[balmy condor]

that's it

[drifting cloud]

but yeah not like that confirms it or whatever

going to be funny running fated raid on heroic for that 1-2 broken items that different classes might have across the raids

but you might not want to spend the coin on them or well you wont have the coins at the start

[marble hemlock]

cant wait for your new bis list

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

[cinder scaffold]

Also if the WoD necks and rings have primary stat still surely they would be way better?

[vestal wren]

some things blizz hasn't decided on yet

[balmy condor]

if they don't get changed and the stats balanced, sure

[vestal wren]

but iirc there should be a upcoming blue post that gives more information

[cobalt pelican]

didn't they already confirm changes to the wod dungeon loot tables were happening at least

they've left it a little last minute to like.. do everything but i guess it's fine probably maybe

[pulsar apex]

Heya. New player. I’m having trouble understanding the wording forCT on Icy Veins.

“It is not used at all when fighting a single enemy, but is the better choice whenever there are multiple targets present, even temporarily. If talented, you maintain this debuff even on single-target.”

It seems self contradictory. Is it or is it not used on single target?

[vestal wren]

you use it in single target

but i agree it seems to be worded in a not straight to understand way

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[pulsar apex]

Ty ty

[vestal wren]

(i had to see what spec uses it on st in the sheet hence the link)

I think the intent is to say that it is possibly not the best talent on pure single target

but if talented into used on single target too

[marble hemlock]

Yeah the wording isn't super precise there, I'll fix it.

The idea is that you don't wanna talent it on single-target (unless you play Venthyr), but if you talented it, you want to maintain the debuff as much as you can.

[pulsar apex]

Wow that sheet

[marble hemlock]

So if you have it talented, then you want to use it. But you wouldn't wanna talent it for a purely single-target fight.

[pulsar apex]

Gotcha

[marble hemlock]

Thanks for catching it, will fix :p

[pulsar apex]

Why does venthyr care about it for st? Flag?

[marble hemlock]

Venthyr plays MfD instead of Deeper Stratagem, and has a much easier time maintaining it.

[pulsar apex]

Ah. Ok. Hmm answers are causing more questions. But why does Ven pref MfD?

[marble hemlock]

Because you will want to ensure high CP usage during Flagellation to gain more stacks.

[pulsar apex]

Sorry for questions. I dinged 60 last night.

[marble hemlock]

MfD is the easiest way of doing so

[pulsar apex]

Ahhhh. Hmm. Is Vigor such a bad choice? It feels so stress free to play.

[marble hemlock]

So while MfD is slightly worse for some other covenants/builds, the fact you want to maximize your Flagellation Stacks makes MfD a very good choice as its an easy 5 CP you can generate instantly, and it doesnt cost a GCD either.

[pulsar apex]

Oh it’s off the GCD

[marble hemlock]

It'll just lead to less DPS. It's not a "bad" choice in that sense, just that the other choices are stronger.

[pulsar apex]

Ok I’ll get my head around where to bind it.

I see the section on getting flag stacks up before Ven.

Ok it’s setting to make sense. Thank you for all the great replies.

[marble hemlock]

Anytime 🙂

[storm onyx]

Was SnD discussed at all for Assassination in DF?

[balmy condor]

it's baseline for all specs and cut to the chase is on the sin tree

[storm onyx]

Ok, guess its settled for good then

[balmy condor]

oh you mean in terms of it staying?

yeah it's not going anywhere

[storm onyx]

Would swapping Cttc and FoK make sense on the tree? Or simply they don't want us to have that economy?

[balmy condor]

doesn't make much sense to me

[storm onyx]

Tho i get it somewhat the values of talents are different

kk

[pseudo hamlet]

Any tips for the Jailer's gauntlet as Assa?

[whole mason]

gauntlet?

oh, the Torghast thing

[pseudo hamlet]

Yeah, the one with the "bosses" only.

[whole mason]

maybe someone else can answer. Torghast is not my thing.

[pseudo hamlet]

I am doing it as a NF and the sepsis synergy seems OP(spreading to three targets + doing 15% of each target HP dmg to everyone after it ends).
But the survivability is the main problem.

[timid cloud]

Late night thoughts, are we gonna use the Mechagon combo rings or the Court of Stars ring in S4...?

[limber lion]

Mechagon is likely more dps but also much harder to get

[strange python]

I did the flawless 12's last season as NF (and I agree about it being really good).
The few I did flawless at 16 this season were as well.
That said - I agree entirely about survivability...(and I know gauntlet is different, but the same thing applies)...it's pretty tough.
I pretty much gave up doing the rest of 16's until maybe next patch when we get more ilvl.

[misty holly]

That is terrifying... 157 CoS runs and didn't get the ring. How many mechagon runs would I be looking at? lol

[strange python]

The worst thing being that debuff - that terrifies/fears you if you hit 60 (40?) percent health.

Just undoable

[pseudo hamlet]

The each wing of Torghast isn't that easy, but I still think that Gauntlet is harder and Requires much more coordination and kinda different tactic.

[strange python]

Yeah I think I have one floor on the gauntlet left to unlock...but I gave up on it. If we get more ilvl and can do it next season, then it should be a lot easier, i hope.

[misty holly]

Another 26 ilevel it should be easy

I havent heard anything about torghast scaling up in S4, so it will probably just be cake

[pseudo hamlet]

Oh, just realized we're getting S4 with higher ilvl gear also

[strange python]

Yeah i mean look at the ilvl requirements when you hover them now

Aren't they like 285 or something...and really, who's 285?

I'm sure some classes/specs can just button mash their way through it though...lol

[pseudo hamlet]

Its 280 actually but yeah

I mean, I did the level 4(?) with really low gear though.

Wasn't 275 ilvl for sure!

And the starting power up are total lottery. I am leaving immediately after getting the distraction bomb thing, lol.

[craggy nimbus]

I got so much Boreghast left to do for the Back from The Beyond achievement :<

[limber lion]

Who knows, but the fact is that CoS has a smaller loot pool than Mechagon (because every class has 4 rings + normal items from each dungeon) and you need the exact 2 right rings to make it work

[blazing pumice]

@pseudo hamlet outlaw kyrian

you are griefing yourself otherwise

you don't even need to be good at the outlaw rotation cuz it doesn't matter as soon as you get the cooked echoing reprimand animas

[strange python]

Do you have a PVP set with lotsa vers (or a sub set) - that's the only thing I haven't really tried yet.

[spice spire]

[viscid spear]

Sleep is for the weak
Thus I need a lot

[violet jackal]

I see torghast chat. Chiming in to say it’s possible to solo flawless all wings at 16 assassination rogue, I did it as necrolord

[thorn fjord]

I’ve got a 1 year old

What’s sleep

[spice spire]

Something you won’t know for 3 more years

[ebon notch]

isnt it more like 17

(i used to talk in my sleep)

[spice spire]

Damn

I apparently still do

But usually they’ll sleep outside of the toddler phase

[ebon notch]

its a shame cause apparently i just talk nonsense

imagine i was hella smart but only in my sleep

[spice spire]

Same here, I’m definitely dumber in my sleep

Val writes stuff down and tells me

It’s pretty funny shit

[ebon notch]

leak sleep doc 👀

[viscid spear]

My dad gave me hard liquor as a toddler

[ebon notch]

[viscid spear]

That was around 30 years ago tho, haven't seen him in the last 22.

[ebon notch]

i have no idea what boomers were thinking

giving their kids alcohol to put them to sleep

[violet jackal]

It was effective

[ebon notch]

so is dropping them lmao

[spice spire]

She’s not here but one in particular. It’s about two am, and I YELL “I have two puppers (I’ve never said that word in my life) and they’re the same, but different” and then I apparently hugged her very hard

[cerulean nest]

so as it stands now, is having both a sin and at least one outlaw semi mandatory for raid?

[bleak sky]

can't tell

sin probably yes, outlaw no

[ebon notch]

theres literally no point to speculate

[ebon notch]

thats wholesome as hell

[spice spire]

Not really, but is it really nice? Probably.

But also not everything is added to alpha yet afaik

[cerulean nest]

but speculating is fun

[ebon notch]

but if you're yelling in your voice id shit myself

[gusty mirage]

You shit yourself anyway

[ebon notch]

i told you that in private

wtf

[gusty mirage]

Idk bro sue me

[ebon notch]

thats cheating ur a lawyer

[viscid spear]

He always needs practice. Even the GOATs practice.

[ebon notch]

im doing some weakaura recoding and its not recognised as an item

or as a spell

[gusty mirage]

p. sure it's a consumable

also

why would you tag koji and whispyr?

[thorny pond]

Hey all you cool cats and kittens

[strange python]

You can load it off of "Spell Known" - and the name of the talent (I think Party Favors) if that helps at all.

[ebon notch]

Sorry I thought from apl editing they'd be the best people to ask

I delete

But the reason I ask is that /use doesn't work on it

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

Good afternoon ramfam how are you

[echo geyser]

Deleting pings

[ebon notch]

Better than annoying them oxi is right

[echo geyser]

It doesnt work like that i think, sometimes i wake up to pings in discord then i scroll for minutes and theres nothing there

[ebon notch]

Yeah I know

But then they don't read my question and get more annoyed

[tired falcon]

Wait

You scroll to find pings?

You realize you could just use search feature in discord right lol

[thorny pond]

Or just ignore them

[echo geyser]

i dont use it on phone

[tired falcon]

Bruh why

It’s so easy to

[thorny pond]

True friends don’t ping

[echo geyser]

[thorny pond]

@echo geyser amirite

[echo geyser]

[thorny pond]

Bonjourno

[echo geyser]

Dekai pinged me in outlaw at 4am with random dog gif with no context

[ebon notch]

i saw

remember when he sent you a poem and you blocked him?

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

you dont know how hard we laughed

holy fuck

[gusty mirage]

feel free to let me know if he crosses the line into harassment (:

[ebon notch]

wat

i never harass ramfam

[gusty mirage]

not you dumbass

[ebon notch]

have to make sure

[gusty mirage]

now stop bothering me I'm trying to make a new playlist

[ebon notch]

i didnt even tag you

[thorny pond]

Oxi, what the playlist for? I missed context

[gusty mirage]

working on something and need music to fuel it

[thorny pond]

Loud bangers or quiet background sound?

[viscid spear]

The lamentations of the women

[gusty mirage]

I'll DM you some examples

[spice spire]

@echo geyser can i ping you when I have animal pictures though

[cerulean nest]

is there a way to see racial percentages across players?

like what % play belf etc.

[gusty mirage]

easily? not really, but this is probably your best bet: https://www.statista.com/statistics/276315/distribution-of-world-of-warcraft-characters-by-race/

[cerulean nest]

oh I meant rogues specifically

probably not then

had no idea Statista got into details like this though wtf lol. I've sourced a lot of their reports for work for other things

[lucid birch]

Doesn’t wowhead have a break down

It’s by spec this is assassination

[gusty mirage]

wowhead has a breakdown based on their profiler

[lucid birch]

Yeah well we take what we can get

[cerulean nest]

ah okay thanks

more undead than I thought

[carmine dawn]

Female belf stealth crouches on the floor

That’s neat

[gusty mirage]

undead is still pretty popular

close to 7% of 28 million characters is quite a bit

[cerulean nest]

thinking of switching from belf to something else just for kicks

maybe orc

[gusty mirage]

go diaper baby

[cerulean nest]

gotta stay horde or else I would in a heartbeat lol

[carmine dawn]

Mechagnome unironically OP

[gusty mirage]

it's dead ass 62 dps for me

lol

[carmine dawn]

Cheat death tho

[cerulean nest]

its barely a cheat death lol

[bleak sky]

why

cross faction exists

[echo geyser]

cuties yes

[true condor]

guys the master of the toxic can't relate to the shiv about the numbing toxic

is it a bug?

[cerulean nest]

is it staying that way permanently going forward?

[strange python]

dude orc opener is absurd

[gusty mirage]

if I understand your question, mind numbing poison + shiv isn't being buffed by master poisoner?

[true condor]

yea this is wut i want to say,is it a bug?

[gusty mirage]

hmm, it should be working but I haven't paid too close of attention to it tbh

typically you only really play master poisoner in pvp and in pvp you normally run crippling over numbing

time to hit some dummies and check

[cerulean nest]

yeah seems like the easy switch

[gusty mirage]

working fine

[cerulean nest]

i like arcane torrent but its mostly a tool for m+ and I dont care about doing much past getting portals so whatever

[gusty mirage]

numbing is 15% baseline, 25% with shiv
numbing + master poisoner is 18%, 30% with master poisoner + shiv
which lines up with the 20% increase from master poisoner

[cerulean nest]

anyone have the racial sim string?

[gusty mirage]

ye I got you

sec

[cerulean nest]

(and where do I paste it again?)

ty

[gusty mirage]

paste your simc input in advanced sim on raidbots

and toss that at the bottom and delete the blood elf line

[cerulean nest]

sweet

[true condor]

ok thx oxi❤️

[gusty mirage]

[cerulean nest]

lmao gnome is +195dps

i might just be low on haste

[muted ivy]

I don’t think there’s any way they could take it away without providing insane amounts of faction transfers for all the people having to swap back

They would get fucking murdered by the community lol

[cerulean nest]

truth

if they could make it slightly more seamless to remain in a guild with other factions itd be perfect

like youre still punished for being another faction in guild repairs/bank/chat etc.

[gusty mirage]

that's the plan for DF

cross-faction guilds

[muted ivy]

Ya, the only reason they don’t have cross-faction guilds already is cuz there was definitely some clunky background coding that made it take longer than just allowing groups

[cerulean nest]

what about like being able to get gear from a guild crafter etc.

is that gonna be allowed cross faction?

[muted ivy]

If the guild is cross faction it would have to be

[gusty mirage]

everything's pointing to breaking down all existing barriers for factions in DF

so it's safe to swap if you want to give the blue boys a shot

[muted ivy]

There’s reasons to stay Horde for now, but worrying about them getting rid of cross faction is definitely not one of them

[gusty mirage]

yeah mine is repair gold

[true condor]

@gusty mirage found it isn't work oxi

[grizzled jay]

where are the sims for new Potions at

[cursive summit]

is there sims out for df content already?

[spice spire]

no

most stuff isn't implemented in right now afaik

[viscid spear]

We've only just entered Alpha, so we have a ways to go

[pseudo hamlet]

Didn't think about it! Guess that would've been better

[pseudo hamlet]

Hate outlaw...

[grizzled jay]

liar. koji already has apls written for the next 4 expansions.

he just withholds them from us

[gusty mirage]

do you happen to have a log for this?

[desert orchid]

so, how is the state of sin for m+ right now?

[gusty mirage]

terrible

more work to do less damage than the other 2 specs

a tier set that makes how sin aoe works miserable

[desert orchid]

that's what I was trying to confirm. Shame, b/c it's by far my favorite

[gusty mirage]

like it's playable, but it's not recommended tbh

[desert orchid]

guess I'll stick with sub for dungeons then

[gusty mirage]

same dude

scarizard massacred my boy

with the 4pc

[desert orchid]

is it the go to for pvp?

and sorry for all the questions, trying to get a quick update since I sat my rogue this tier to help raid comp

and playing catcup

[gusty mirage]

nah nah you're good don't even worry about it. Sin's good in pvp, it has arguably the most amount of burst thanks to sepsis interacting with the 2pc and 4pc bonuses

but all 3 specs are playable now, it's kinda sick to be a rogue

[desert orchid]

yea, sub seems feast or famine on procs though. Don't really like that in the famine heh

was hoping sin would get some aoe love in their tuning

[bleak sky]

I cant read dont mind me

[desert orchid]

seems to rarely do so for me heh

then I'll get like 6 in a row heh

[bleak sky]

yeah in a raid scenario, mostly single target, it really is a rollercoaster

doesn't feel too hot

[pure bane]

anyone use a WA for crimson tempest? im doing a terrible job keeping it up

[strange python]

So mine just shows up when the debuff is applied to an enemy...
And then it glows when it reaches pandemic window.

[fading wigeon]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fading wigeon]

either of these packs will help you keep track of your dots

[gray warren]

where can i see the info that kingsbane could return instead of stepsis please ? 🙂

[obtuse robin]

look at the pin for tldr

[gray warren]

oh thank you, always check pins 😄

[thin imp]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[tawny junco]

best leggo for assa st?

and venthyr is the cov to go right?

[balmy condor]

duskwalker

[balmy condor]

yes

this is all FaQ btw

[fleet anchor]

I actually have all the sims done and pretty much have figured out the best builds. I'll be releasing my Patreon access tomorrow.

[oak sky]

You the hunter guy now koji

[fleet anchor]

Entry level tier of one spec, mid level for two, high level tier for all 3. Stay informed!

But nah, I'm not totally sure how long sims will take to spin up. We're still working on talent/spell data extraction.

I might have some initial take on things in a few weeks if everything goes smoothly. But a lot of this stuff would require testing.

[obtuse robin]

i assume the total numbers of interations will sky rocket just from looking at the trees , simming and raidbots structure wil lfor sure be intresting in df

[ebon notch]

i hate that shit

on god its demonic

[obtuse robin]

mrt

[balmy condor]

isn't that what ravenholdt patreons get?

[spice isle]

is there a general rule on how many targets do we pick fan of knives over mutilate?

[balmy condor]

3+

[spice isle]

alright thanks

[ebon lichen]

is there a way to target mobs during explosive week other/more effective than tabbing? Im strugging in big groups to get to explosives at times and struggle to either click or tab to them. just curious if yall had any recommendations

[strange python]

you can mouseover

like you shouldn't be doing it as a rogue honestly though

even our throw isn't instant so

[viscid spear]

[gusty mirage]

if you have plater, I'd recommend just getting a mod for it that just highlights the nameplate

[strange python]

What is our throw thing called?

[gusty mirage]

poisoned knife?

it's pretty instant.

[strange python]

In a macro, you'd put:
/cast [@mouseover] Poisoned Knife

[gusty mirage]

ye

that's generally the only way to handle it now

[strange python]

yeah

[gusty mirage]

get something to highlight the nameplate and mouseover

[strange python]

like healers usually do it all - but if i notice 3-4 at one time and people's healthbars are low, i get em still

[ebon notch]

thats very ethical of you

[strange python]

me?

[ebon notch]

yes

[strange python]

haha thanks man

means a lot coming from you

[ebon notch]

np bro

[ebon lichen]

im spamming lower dungeons for valor and trying to find a weapon, so i end up killing quite a few

i will do the mouseover for poison knife, thank you

[fleet anchor]

Probably not as bad as one might think

We already get massive iteration bloat due to soulbind trees and the way talent permutations are configured

Current tree structure without a bunch of stuff layered on top should be somewhat straightforward to walk with a few "required node" specifications

And many of the branches can be pruned by a low precision sim since they will be zdps traits

[ebon notch]

mm yeeah lemme get uhhh every conduit every soulbind config and uhhhhhhh all gems

[lucid birch]

Have a great weekend rogues

[ebon notch]

no u

[thorny pond]

All you cool cats…. What kinda mouse are you playing with? Mine took a dump and I’m open to something new

[bleak sky]

g402

[gusty mirage]

naga pro

[thorny pond]

Side buttons are mods or you mod the side buttons?

[ebon notch]

g502 hero

and i have the side buttons bound to ctrl shift and alt

and use them as modifiers

[midnight mist]

same, modifiers on mouse is kinda op

[thorny pond]

Yee 502 is my work mouse. 604 is my former game mouse

[ebon notch]

only problem ive found is the mouse is quite long

and the front most side button is a bit of a pain to use a lot repeatedly

i had chain lightning bound to shift + 2 and it broke me

another option is the corsair ironclaw

[thorny pond]

Lol yea it’s good for CDs

[ebon notch]

has 3 side buttons

[midnight mist]

i find the front back button harder to press

[ebon notch]

oh you have g502 also?

[midnight mist]

yeah

[ebon notch]

pog

[midnight mist]

everyone have a g502

[thorny pond]

Which config you use, the wheel, 2 button or MMO?

[ebon notch]

do you have sinister strike bound to control wheel also?

[midnight mist]

imagine not having a g502 in 2022 bro

[midnight mist]

nah what

[ebon notch]

[midnight mist]

cursed

[ebon notch]

everyone says the same shit

but idk it saved my wrists ngl

[midnight mist]

my wheel dont roll so good anymore lol

[icy agate]

you really use side buttons that often? i only use them for things off-gcd where you want to use something else immediately after like mfd

[ebon notch]

mines still ok

[thorny pond]

Gotta love the infinite scroll wheel

[left jackal]

im using g604 😦

[obtuse robin]

my scroll wheel down is tricks

[thorny pond]

When you heal, MMO mouse is life saver

[ebon notch]

ye literally everything that isnt 1-6 is modified

[icy agate]

i just use the normal ctrl, alt, shift.. but i guess just used to that instead of mouse buttons as modifiers

[thorny pond]

I like the mod ideas on mouse

The 40% keyboard has short throws to the alt and ctrl tho

[ebon notch]

im using a TKL

so its a bit shorter but not a lot

[thorny pond]

I’ll have to look into it more
Been Logitech bro for 12 years

[bleak sky]

40% KB

you're insane

[gusty mirage]

mmo

[ebon notch]

link your keyboard im curious

[gusty mirage]

I use certain abilities + opie stuff on mouse

[hybrid vale]

Mmo mouse is not needed when raiding imo, I can be different in m+ and esp pvp where you’re expected to have more precision and things

[ebon notch]

i mean the bindings for raid and m+ is almost the same no?

[hybrid vale]

I use it in pvp but not pve it ain’t comfy

[midnight mist]

as long as u use every modifier I dontthink u ever need a mmo mouse anyway

[midnight mist]

every @violet plaza macros

fck I pinged someone

[ebon notch]

i never use those

[gusty mirage]

well of course you don't need one

[ebon notch]

oops

[hybrid vale]

If I heal m+ I have a few more binds than a raid, partially focus binds for iron bark and other defensives

[gusty mirage]

but it makes life easier

[bleak sky]

their fault tbh

who names themselves focus

[midnight mist]

haha

[hybrid vale]

This ain’t the hunter discord no focus users

[gusty mirage]

I have a set focus macro on my mouse, opie world markers, target markers, poison stuff, feint is on there, cov ability is on there

[bleak sky]

focus bind ironbark

that's cursed

[gusty mirage]

such as door of shadows

[midnight mist]

I have focus on kick, gouge, blind, kidney, shiv

[gusty mirage]

not flag/er/etc

[midnight mist]

and shadowstep

[bleak sky]

zero focus macros

[gusty mirage]

focus macros are gamechangers

and if you're not using them

you're actually inting

[hybrid vale]

Ye sometimes I’m doing other things and I focus tank for quicker cds

Depends

[bleak sky]

season 2 io check

[hybrid vale]

Also use focus maim and bash for cc

[bleak sky]

[hybrid vale]

And clone

[gusty mirage]

2641

[bleak sky]

weak

[gusty mirage]

what's your point?

[ebon notch]

i got pretty high without using them

idk

[bleak sky]

my point is: look at pretty color and kick your stuff

no focus

[gusty mirage]

your point's dumb

focus macros make sure no oopsies happen

so just because you're such a big cock gamer who makes zero mistakes ever

doesn't mean shit

[ebon notch]

i only have focus kick

[bleak sky]

my pp be fat indeed

[hybrid vale]

It’s just a diff way of doing things I suppose, either way, I only need 2 mouse buttons when I play dps

Less things to worry about

🙂

[bleak sky]

surely 2 buttons assassination

surely

[hybrid vale]

I don’t use the mouse buttons either, they’re there for display

[fleet anchor]

Mostly our iterations are only held back by lack of talent diversity to begin with

Which could in theory happen especially when targeting a specific build

Right now 4 talent rows, 2 soulbinds with 1 extra conduit, and two legendaries with replacement slots is almost 12k combinations

We can't realistically explore our current search space right now without many passes

[compact wing]

Could someone explain why on the "generic raid tree" that someone would choose to spend a point in gouge over having the 3rd point in alacrity?

[fleet anchor]

So boiling down to one single system is probably more straightforward in a lot of ways

[ebon notch]

True

Having so many dead talents is great for iterations

[balmy condor]

2 points in alacrity already maintain it

And gouge is sick

Like the pins say though

You can move like 2-3 points around

And do the same shit

It’s a give and take

[compact wing]

I see

[balmy condor]

The trees aren’t meant to be “this is Uber optimal play this or you’re a dogshit grey parsing ape”

It’s a concept

[thorny pond]

if I gray parse, I have to reroll Evoker

[ebon notch]

👀

[obtuse robin]

i was watching musclebruh and he couldnt wrap his brain around why 3 points in alacrity is bad (he wasnt taking deeper)

[thorny pond]

Wish we could choose our flavor of alacrity

[obtuse robin]

former mdi champ

[bleak sky]

Was shiv not a thing in BFA?

Or tb

[ebon notch]

im gonna fok fok u

[bleak sky]

Every time this audio plays I think "why is there no shiv"

[balmy condor]

Toxic blade was in alacrity’s spot

So if you took exsang, you don’t have toxic blade

[bleak sky]

Oh

[echo geyser]

how the fuck tho?

[balmy condor]

Boop

[echo geyser]

great podcast today whispyr

can u see how many ppl listened etc?

[balmy condor]

We had 140 in discord, and 60 in my stream

[echo geyser]

someday we'll get into the thousands

[balmy condor]

I assume the viewer counts can be found in Spotify/YouTube as well

But yeh

Need to do some more growing and networking

[echo geyser]

i bet theres way more ppl listening not live at least

but still theres ppl that dont know it exists

[balmy condor]

If jpc can have 3k viewers on a hunter alt then surely we can have 3k viewers for a theorycrafting discussion

Right

SURELY

[umbral rapids]

Bet

[echo geyser]

fotm class > theorycrafting on main rogue

[balmy condor]

Nah but we got a lot of stuff for 10.0 cooking

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

Oxi’s lead the push on website rework

We’re gonna try and get website content rolling again

Podcasts are going to be more regular and frequently

[obtuse robin]

[balmy condor]

I still have my secret project that I’ve been too busy to continue

[ebon notch]

you rang?

[balmy condor]

Book of shadows will be updated

Big rogue resources and content in 10.0

I’m excited

[bleak sky]

Wdym rogue discussion

This was the "guy proccing irl" podcast

[ebon notch]

bro his stormstrike procced off itself like

8 goddamn times

[bleak sky]

💀 💀 💀 💀