assassination

[toxic locust]

i was really curious about how they'd go about DH, since the class is so recent and the specs share almost nothing. knowing that realz is gonna do it and likely won't just turn all the current passives into 3 pointers also gives me hope

[hollow river]

Sins key weak point right now is less control and is a wet noodle

Outlaw is another story, but it does need better burst damage in pvp to be fair

[toxic locust]

havoc in particular has always just felt... bland to me, after getting over the novelty of the mobility

[marble hemlock]

rogue pvp without elusiveness

[hollow river]

?

[marble hemlock]

i think id be lying if i said that i care about DH very much

[slow needle]

DH basically needs a rework IMO. The complete class was designed with the artefact in mind instead of it being added later as with basically every other spec. DH has been limping along ever since the removal. These trees provide the perfect opportunity for that.

[marble hemlock]

only change i want for DH is to make immo aura unable to be used out of combat. im sick of DHs prepulling and dying when the timer hits 1

[ebon notch]

[toxic locust]

yeah this is pretty much what i was getting at

[hollow river]

Immo aura CC breaks

[gusty mirage]

smells good

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage you want some drama juice?

[toxic locust]

DH was designed during the peak of borrowed power, pruning and spec > class identity

all of which we've gone away from

[fleet whale]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/magerogue-needs-meaningful-nerfs/1269967
think this thread is funny

[ebon notch]

mage is broken true

i think we just make them walk 50% slower perma

thoughts?

[gusty mirage]

pvper crying on an alt

never change wow forums, never change

[fleet whale]

he got a lot of upvotes though

but it's prolly just his alts

[toxic locust]

is it a lot?

[hollow river]

Yeah this is just someone that’s 1200CR on main

Means nothing in reality

[toxic locust]

67 people out of at least a million isn't really that many

[fleet whale]

i just find these threads amusing

[gusty mirage]

"blind duration needs to be 5s max"

[fleet whale]

they always want to gut our kit

remove our cc,

[green harbor]

mf said burst meta while referring to a new expansion 💀

[hollow river]

A lot of the player base don’t like rogue mage/RMP and yet-who is terrorizing the ladder right now? Demo/DK

[fleet whale]

though i kind of do agree about subter

[gusty mirage]

you can't gut subterfuge without gutting assassination's ability to do dungeons

[fleet whale]

DF fixes that

[gusty mirage]

how

by giving us shadow dance?

[fleet whale]

subter isn't needed

[gusty mirage]

so a more broken version of subterfuge fixes this guy's complaint?

[fleet whale]

another talent makes you garrote for a few seconds out of stealth

[gusty mirage]

well that doesn't fix it does it

it just cakes in subterfuge into the assassination tree

[fleet whale]

they are separate talents

[gusty mirage]

so you gut subterfuge

[hollow river]

There’s no silence on the assa tree talent iirc?

[gusty mirage]

and the sin rogue just takes that one in the DF tree

how does that fix anything

which sub rogue is playing subterfuge above 1600 CR?

and how much did they pay for their carry?

[hollow river]

Right now?

Or later-in DF?

[gusty mirage]

right now

the post wants to destroy subterfuge

[hollow river]

There’s a few glads that play it oxi

[gusty mirage]

find me a rogue outside of assassination

that plays it

at a high level

[hollow river]

Palumor

Rank 1

[marble hemlock]

people who actually care about pvp dont play wow. change my mind.

[hollow river]

A lot of the ones complaining on forums do not play at a high level

[gusty mirage]

12

[hollow river]

They’re too busy complaining about things

[balmy condor]

I have a hard time pinning down if palumor is really smart or he's a pvp brain

[gusty mirage]

he's a pvp brain

[marble hemlock]

theyre not mutually exclusive

[gusty mirage]

nice guy fwiw

[balmy condor]

yeah that's what throws me off

like he's nice and everything

which is already a red flag

[marble hemlock]

my cat is meowing at me but i dont understand her

[hollow river]

Don’t you need a pvp brain to pvp at a high level

[balmy condor]

you can't be smart and nice

[gusty mirage]

not really

[marble hemlock]

oxi is right here bro

what are you saying

[gusty mirage]

after a certain amount of reps it's just a mindless script

[spice spire]

Just understand her

[balmy condor]

oxi is toxic as fuck though

[marble hemlock]

shut your whore mouth

[spice spire]

@ me

[gusty mirage]

[bleak sky]

just look at foreverguy, he's both

[balmy condor]

I just opened a DM where oxi just roasted the fuck out of a guys logs

for nothing

[marble hemlock]

lorentz is smart and nice

[fleet whale]

How much brain power does it take to play a frost dk in pvp?

[gusty mirage]

FOR NOTHING?

[spice spire]

Lorentz is 1 in a billion

[rain mortar]

Unless you play rogue mirrors

[spice spire]

An international treasure

[gusty mirage]

play unholy, slappy hands double dips into mastery

win the game

[marble hemlock]

loktark is smart and nice

then again

hes an outlaw OTP

so not that smart

[gusty mirage]

that's because lok's smart enough to build a buffer between RH and himself

takes it in smol doses

[green harbor]

very based, seli

[marble hemlock]

dadsen is smart and nice

[harsh anchor]

otp is derogatory ... specialist is better

[balmy condor]

outlaw is also derogatory

but they're usually not smart enough to pick up on it

[marble hemlock]

so is rogue

lets be real

[green harbor]

outlaw is a cult

[marble hemlock]

its more like a disease

[balmy condor]

glad to see you cured

[oak sky]

poison

really

[marble hemlock]

well technically its a virus

you can cure a disease or poison

outlaw is more like... herpes. it comes and goes, sometimes it flares up, sometimes its barely noticeable. but you can never get rid of it. and you only get it by doing weird things with people who already got it.

[spice spire]

Seli is a carrier

Outlaw gaming in CN

[gusty mirage]

stop it

wasn't seli like the first dude to kill sire as sin?

[oak sky]

i played sin

[spice spire]

He was

He wasn’t a DEVOUT though

I legit don’t think you could kill many bosses in CN with 9.0 sin on prog

[marble hemlock]

ye

and i beat our WLs in p3 damage so

worth

[gusty mirage]

yeah

he likes killing bosses

crazy concept

[spice spire]

Where there’s a will, there’s a way, pal

[marble hemlock]

i mean

[gusty mirage]

was there?

[marble hemlock]

playing assa in early CN prog was like eating soup with a fork. sure, you can do it, but you do it by yourself because when other people are around and see you do it, they wanna punch you in the face - and theyd be right.

[gusty mirage]

pre-9.0.5 assassination?

[spice spire]

I actually have a photo for this I’m sure

One sec

[cedar otter]

is it worth crafting my second legendary with haste and mastery instead of hast and crit as long as my simmulation is saying that mastery is the best stat for me at this moment ? im at 273 ilvl

[gusty mirage]

I mean if you have gold to blow, sure

otherwise the ~10-30 dps difference probably isn't worth the gold investment

[bleak sky]

also seli whisp

good podcast

[oak sky]

wait

there was another one

[gusty mirage]

with Marcelian

Marcelian's good people

check him out

[oak sky]

whens the zoomer episode

[brazen zodiac]

oxi!

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

hi best friend

[brazen zodiac]

how r u!

[spice spire]

I found it

Finally

[gusty mirage]

I'm a-okay, how are you?

[brazen zodiac]

p good, glad ur ok

[gusty mirage]

[brazen zodiac]

jailer seems pretty ez now

rip

[gusty mirage]

ye

kinda unfortunate they completely gut it

we were close to a kill before hand

[brazen zodiac]

yeah this sucks

[gusty mirage]

needed maybe a week

[brazen zodiac]

wish i couldve fought sooner sigh

seems super 123

[bleak sky]

next one is guy + koji

[peak bobcat]

pogu

not deserved

[bleak sky]

but koji cancels out guy's zoomer

[bleak sky]

YUGE

[oak sky]

nah bro

guy is a whispyr tier zoomer

[bleak sky]

wym

[oak sky]

early 20s- not 20

[spice spire]

Oh you’re talking skip + dekai + agreon + idk man name another zoomer

[oak sky]

yeah dude

[bleak sky]

flower skip dekai agreon deeny (?)

[oak sky]

april fools episode

deeny too old

[bleak sky]

tf

[gusty mirage]

yeah bro for sure

[oak sky]

hes older than you

minalba

[bleak sky]

WHAT

[gusty mirage]

we want to hear you idiots talking about stuff

[spice spire]

Yeah deeny is like mid 20s isn’t he?

[bleak sky]

damn

[oak sky]

deeny is like 27 i think

[spice spire]

Pause

[gusty mirage]

stop exposing our boy

wtf

[oak sky]

mb

[bleak sky]

uhhhh

[balmy condor]

deeny is late 20's yeh

[bleak sky]

get warcieft? varas?

[spice spire]

Silence 30s

[bleak sky]

one of them is 100% zoomer

maybe 2

[spice spire]

Varas is a banger

[gusty mirage]

how about we get none of you

how about that one

[bleak sky]

how bout you cook some plantains for us

and stfu

[gusty mirage]

hop in the trees and get me some first buddy

[spice spire]

[bleak sky]

[gusty mirage]

I'll make them the way you like them

fried with butter & brown sugar and cinnamon

[bleak sky]

on strapon?

[balmy condor]

minalape

[bleak sky]

oh, butter and sugar

ye sure, right

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

bro your knees are like 84

stop talking

[spice spire]

I ain’t ever had knee pain in my life

Stop projecting

My acl is just

Uh

Wonky 🙂

[gusty mirage]

wait until I show up to the wedding and I take my 9 iron to the back of your knees

[bleak sky]

I am going to avoid pantheon forever

[spice spire]

Weird thing to call your member, man

[bleak sky]

guild can't force me, THEY CAN'T

[gusty mirage]

mine's barely a tee bro

wtf

[spice spire]

God damn

[meager granite]

Going back to the discussions we had with Realz regarding Shiv being 2 charges, i don't recall someone talking about the fact that if you use TTB as last talent row you will definately use the 2 charges due to dmg amplificaiton and not want to keep one charge to disenrage...

[bleak sky]

it was talked about

not ttb specifically, but 2 shiv charges = more dps

[meager granite]

ok missed it then

[balmy condor]

could just remove ttb

(he wont)

[bleak sky]

try convincing him one more time

mention ttb and tea

maybe this time it works

[meager granite]

I tried 😦

[balmy condor]

yeah for sure

[oak sky]

im actually not sure what makes ttb appealing at all

it doesnt really add anything

[bleak sky]

send him 20 on venmo

[gusty mirage]

20 what?

[oak sky]

like if it made shiv always give you a poison bomb or something

[balmy condor]

it makes your short cooldown do damage

[gusty mirage]

reals?

[oak sky]

now we're talking

[bleak sky]

fuck no, send a real currency

none of the shitcoins (real, euro, lira)

[oak sky]

bro what if ttb just made your envenoms always pop poison bomb in shiv

[gusty mirage]

bro what if you pressed ttb, and a dagger dropped from the sky

and just insta killed whatever you were targeting

[oak sky]

what if death from above

[bleak sky]

./target [@player] ttb

[meager granite]

what if you pressed ttb, the talent disapear and gets changed to something more appealing?

[oak sky]

what if ttb is an amp on 0 that you press every 25s

[gusty mirage]

it took us 2 expacs to get rid of hidden blades, I wouldn't hold my breath

[spice spire]

How to use TTB:
Move your tree around and pick a real talent

[oak sky]

like i dunno i dont think passives are bad but they should at least be interesting

[meager granite]

ah yeah that.... i nearly doomed us to a 8 mins cd ICarnage so i dont talk aoe assa anymore with realz

me scared

[bleak sky]

blue name

[gusty mirage]

still a red name

[oak sky]

other passives in the tree are kinda cool

[gusty mirage]

don't insult our new friend

[oak sky]

rupture agi

vv

[gusty mirage]

poor daps

[bleak sky]

realz pulled the 30 sec card in sub today

wasn't as fun

[gusty mirage]

was DK in there?

[bleak sky]

ya

[gusty mirage]

he's always got crazy ideas up in that noggin of his

[balmy condor]

realz being a savage will never get old

[meager granite]

blue or red, i like both gameplay and despise the yellow one

[gusty mirage]

he almost banned me

I was almost free

[balmy condor]

I mean

I can do that for you

just ask

[gusty mirage]

you can ban me from wow?

[balmy condor]

oh

no I don't have that power

just pull a mavv

and delete yourself from the internet

[gusty mirage]

but then I can't get insulted by you on the regular

and that gives my life meaning

[oak sky]

i already said one tho

who cares if its op

its an idea

[bleak sky]

wait he didnt

I'm lying

[oak sky]

im just a fan of shit you notice without looking at the meters

[bleak sky]

spreading misinformation

[oak sky]

or shit with flavor

[balmy condor]

so is my balls in your mouth

[bleak sky]

he just said something that I went haha irl and assimilated as a 30 sec card

but that's me being an ape

[bleak sky]

gargleon

[balmy condor]

I think it's spelled galakrond

[oak sky]

ill take it gladly

[peak bobcat]

Damn Minal

[oak sky]

sounds better than ttb on my bars

[peak bobcat]

I didn’t know you were about all this when I recruited you

[bleak sky]

listen sin chat is not real ok

this is you hallucinating

I never typed in here

[peak bobcat]

Roger that

can’t it be 10.0 already

want to play deathmark rogue

[bleak sky]

give 10.0

give alpha/beta

[peak bobcat]

[bleak sky]

a little crumb of content

[peak bobcat]

Tired of exsang vendetta rogue

Just want to press envenom

[bleak sky]

BOY I GOT SOME NEWS

[spice spire]

Tylerr doesn’t even know of minalbas addiction

[meager granite]

Not yet, we got talents to burn !

[spice spire]

Yikes

[bleak sky]

what if we offered you dance + deathmark + exsang tyler

how would you feel about that

[peak bobcat]

Exsang the actual ability is fine

[balmy condor]

I have news as well

[peak bobcat]

Because you only do it once

[balmy condor]

you still won't press envenom

get fucking dunked bozo

[peak bobcat]

[bleak sky]

I'm building BIG mutilate

can't force me into exsang clown

[spice spire]

Minalbuilder

[peak bobcat]

Mage in our guild only plays arcane so I’m only playing envenom mutilate rogue

[bleak sky]

just like bob the builder

[bleak sky]

rank 1 arcane!!!!!

[peak bobcat]

You know he used to actually be cracked

[spice spire]

Rank 1 of 3?

[bleak sky]

Ever since I swapped keyboards I can't do damage

haven't adapted to this shit format

[peak bobcat]

At least you didn’t die to every mechanic

[spice spire]

100% too much?

[bleak sky]

yes

[spice spire]

But I’m also swapping keyboards this weekend

[bleak sky]

but hey I wiped us on a frame perfect fuckup!

[spice spire]

Haven’t had a keyboard that I haven’t had to literally punch to work in years

[gusty mirage]

@balmy condor lmfao

[peak bobcat]

Rygelon was a bit rough

[balmy condor]

bro

he can't do damage in maplestory either

minalba just taking L after L

[spice spire]

Bro

Don’t out him

Damn

[bleak sky]

I'll take your raidbot monkey spot

[balmy condor]

can't sim APL either

[gusty mirage]

might want to start by shipping keyboards to the right address

[spice spire]

He can only do 60% of the apl

[bleak sky]

I got tons of shipment issue stories

me and the national postal service company are enemies

[gusty mirage]

we'll go to battle with them

us vs them

[bleak sky]

they have the government backing them

can't fight them for shit

[gusty mirage]

I'm not scared of the Brazilian government

[bleak sky]

I am

[gusty mirage]

I already told you I'd adopt you

[bleak sky]

call biden and give me a visa

[peak bobcat]

Will Marry you before dragonflight

Ez

[bleak sky]

[peak sandal]

if unity breaks for me 1 more time im gonna 1g my monitor

[bleak sky]

have you thought about not doing prepull stuff

or swapping gear in general

[ashen scroll]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[balmy condor]

I M P O S S I B L E

MUST HAVE CP

mut env mut instead of mut snd mut

that's potent

[kind talon]

YES

Whispyr you understand the true importance of prepull

[balmy condor]

A fatty 3cp envenom to warm the soul

[upper portal]

Haven't played rogue much this expac, aside from sylv dagger, what should we be looking to buy in season 4?
I did a quick scroll but couldn't find anything

[oak sky]

trinket probably

or an outlaw weapon

good trinkets could be fusion amplifier titanic ocular gland or dreadfire vessel

wait for sims unless they already exist

[upper portal]

Not worth dual wielding the dagger? Or is it unique?

[oak sky]

yeah you dual wield the dagger on sub and sin

but you can buy 3 items

so

gonna need to pick up either a trinket or an outlaw weapon which i think is veinripper

[upper portal]

Perfect!
I wasn't sure if the rygelon dagger would be worth also if you couldn't get multiple price from EON

[oak sky]

yeah you should be running double eon if possible

unless you could get like a 6-7 ilvl upgrade eon is bis for sin

[misty holly]

unlocking the rygelon dagger transmog is tempting...

[steel ridge]

the damn thing has never dropped for me, not in normal, not in hc, not in mythic, not in vault.

[oak sky]

ye same

hopefully ill get it in s4

if not oh well probably never

[steel ridge]

in fact, not a single dagger that i needed dropped for me in raid

weapon aquisition for rogues is a mess

[hybrid portal]

anyone got a possible ST build with the new talents? havent played assa in a long while so having a hard time theorycrafting one

[oak sky]

check pins

[hybrid portal]

guess i was better than i thought

[oak sky]

raid build isnt exactly for pure st its more like what you would go on most raid fights that have an add every once in a while or a couple adds or whatever

but its a nice general build

[hybrid portal]

yeah i see, i didnt spec crimson into my st build, but i guess you might take crimson on full ST.

[oak sky]

crimson is mostly for the assumption that adds could be present but its definitely possible with tuning etc that we could see it in st again too

[hybrid portal]

i think the m+ is a bit wierd you dont take nightstalker

30% increased dmg on the burst looks juicy

[marble hemlock]

well, we couldve made 10 more trees for any situation, really

[hybrid portal]

true

[oak sky]

this is like the most likely thing that you could plug and play based on what the tree looks like atm

[marble hemlock]

the trees that we put into the pins or suggested in some videos/talks, are really just a baseline to give people a better idea of some of the more basic synergies and possibilities

[heavy haven]

there are so many possible trees

[hybrid portal]

whats your idea of rotation inside dance? just spam fok/crimson(after inital carnage etc)

[subtle tundra]

best case is that its well balanced and can play multiple builds and do similar damage

(my er no seal fate build, amen!)

[oak sky]

rc

or just er

?

[subtle tundra]

er buddy

echoing reprimand

[oak sky]

did

you get rc

resounding clarity

the leggo

!

work with me folyr

i got some curiosity

[subtle tundra]

havent made a tree

[oak sky]

ill bang one out for you

just for you ❤️

[subtle tundra]

nahhhhhh

you went zoldyck side

that cringe

and didnt get shadow dance

[oak sky]

i cant ignore ttb

sorry

its just not an option

[subtle tundra]

im serious here and youre trolling

wtf

[oak sky]

Ok ill make a better one

Is it an st build or m+

[subtle tundra]

m+

[oak sky]

Ok

[misty holly]

If Shiv cooldown gets reduced by Restless Crew maybe a TTB build would work!

[gusty mirage]

Just go to sleep

[oak sky]

No gotta apply for a volunteering thing and then probably watch better call saul

[subtle tundra]

you better call emergency cause you so stoopid

[oak sky]

yeah varas

uh

its hard to make a good build with both dance and er

for sin

have to drop either deadly precision or virulent poisons

1 point in it

you have to drop

[subtle tundra]

🤨

[oak sky]

hows this

stealth poisons taken because vw is supposedly going there

[subtle tundra]

uh

just wanna know if finishers reduce the cd of shadow dance

[oak sky]

no

[subtle tundra]

huh

[oak sky]

sub thingy

[subtle tundra]

thats sucky

[oak sky]

ye

[subtle tundra]

and outlaw reduces its cd, right? cause cringe game

[oak sky]

thats getting changed

sub is supposed to be the only spec with a shitload of dance uptime

according to designer man

[subtle tundra]

ok das cool

i was getting jealous of outlaw

lmao

[oak sky]

yeah

[subtle tundra]

i want to be able to not take shiv in m+ tbf

[oak sky]

[subtle tundra]

but the current tree makes it mandatory cause dogshit aoe talent positioning

[oak sky]

i mean

soothe is

a thing

[subtle tundra]

yea, for like 2 dungeons

and 1 affix

[oak sky]

flying daggers is behind better shiv tho

idk

[subtle tundra]

thats what im saying

[oak sky]

i think not having shiv for bosses would suck

[subtle tundra]

i think what the talent tree will do is make it so the difference in our ST between m+ and raid be big

bcs there's so many aoe nodes

and yea, you can just not take some

but thats

i want to do big overall

[oak sky]

this is the likely one

[subtle tundra]

so many patches of last on dps meters

[oak sky]

the utility build

I do kinda think its fine to make us take shiv

[subtle tundra]

yea, the build in case there's another season with destro and survival to carry the whole group

[dark garnet]

Kinda weird how top left and bottom right is the aoe parts

[oak sky]

think thats to force you to take shiv talents actually

like

very intentionaly

intentionally

its a core button on the spec

they probably want us to have it for all content

[subtle tundra]

The more complicated the spec, the worse it is for me

i used to watch movies during sylvanas prog, cant do that anymore with 4pc since i actually have to play the game :(((((

[oak sky]

i do find MA and improved garrote one after the other a little contradictory still

[subtle tundra]

true

[oak sky]

i honestly wouldnt mind those 2 as a choice node

[subtle tundra]

yea babe take this garrote spam after stealth and also this crit you wont be able to use ;3

[oak sky]

ye

exactly

[subtle tundra]

it only makes sense if you talent shadow dance

[oak sky]

yep

[subtle tundra]

but not every build will be shadow dance

spam realz with this

surely if you annoy him enough he will change it

[oak sky]

i literally didnt even think about that until today tho

[empty hinge]

I used to get yelled at cuz I vanished with vendetta and the adds in p1 were killing padding melees

[oak sky]

is whispyr awake

[empty hinge]

😎

[subtle tundra]

ok gym time

[oak sky]

@balmy condor what do you think about MA and improved garrote(current subterfuge) being right by each other

[oak sky]

hf

[subtle tundra]

Gym into pushing

[dark garnet]

Ma fits left better imo

Also shouldnt ct be on the bleed side?

[oak sky]

or you can make the 2 a choice node and throw something else in MA's spot

my guess is that its there to force you to take shiv in aoe builds

but idk

[dark garnet]

Could make it green tempest and poison instead idk

[marble hemlock]

you wont play flying daggers for m+ build

[oak sky]

why wouldnt you

[marble hemlock]

cause its shit?

[oak sky]

shit because

numbers

?

my bad

didnt realize the sims were out

[subtle tundra]

Fok does big dam

[dark garnet]

Poison bomb and double poisons better imo

[oak sky]

and besides

this is theoretical

[marble hemlock]

[oak sky]

did a utility build

[marble hemlock]

is that why we never played poisoned katar in m+?

[subtle tundra]

I mean this patch

[marble hemlock]

theres almost no chance in hell that you wouldnt be taking double poisons for an m+ build

[subtle tundra]

They buffed fok

[marble hemlock]

its still shit

and itll remain shit

[subtle tundra]

Nah in big aoe it does decent dmg

[marble hemlock]

define "decent"

[dark garnet]

Fok is cp and poison application more than own dmg

[marble hemlock]

whats the percentage were talking about here

[subtle tundra]

Like 2nd or 3rd on my dmg breakdown

[marble hemlock]

those are weird percent

[subtle tundra]

Yea mate let me remember every dmg breakdown

By memory

1 sec

[marble hemlock]

i mean a ballpark would be helpful

10%, 20? 30?

id be surprised if its more than 20

[oak sky]

yeah its the 30% fok buff thing

15% of 0 is 0

whatever

[subtle tundra]

Like 15 without katar

[marble hemlock]

yeah so

flying daggers is a massive ~3% increase. for 2 points

[subtle tundra]

Fuck math

I hate math

[oak sky]

dont understand why you want to shit on me for just fucking around and throwing something together man

im not making actual bis builds

[subtle tundra]

I hate when math disproves my opinion

[oak sky]

if you scroll up like 40 messages i made varas a dance er build

[marble hemlock]

where did i shit on you?

[oak sky]

i thought it was implied but if you didnt you didnt

[hybrid portal]

im sure that people here expect you to make the best build, and if you make a meme build you say that

[marble hemlock]

i shit on the talent. i also just said theres no way youll play flying daggers.

[oak sky]

why would they expect anything like that from me

I'm just another nobody

[hybrid portal]

not just from you, from everyone. And since im not a good assa theorycrafter, i would listen when seli says something is shiet

[oak sky]

tbf

i literally said

"utility build"

as in

the we do no damage

there for stuns

build

but yes, flying daggers is wrong

my bad

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jb0WE/e1c4fb5cbb.jpg

[hybrid portal]

understandable, id say that coutns as a meme haha

[marble hemlock]

the problem with the "current" m+ build is that you have exactly 0 talentpoints you can allocate elsewhere

as "flex" points

[oak sky]

dont worry when they add another trait in the middle to remove double capstone we'll have plenty

[subtle tundra]

I'll play it in fortified dos and halls. Ok?

[marble hemlock]

cause like

in the class tree you need like

sealfate, dance

that leaves little room for alternative routes

in the spec tree you need ct/dtb/carnage

[oak sky]

fortified return to dragon soul and vault of deathwing

[marble hemlock]

you cant play dtb if you go flying daggers

and even if fok somehow has its damage increased by 100%

dtb is still a better damage gain due to lethal dose

[subtle tundra]

Lethal dose will be nerfed bozo

[marble hemlock]

even if it gets nerfed by 50% its still better value

[subtle tundra]

I hate math

[marble hemlock]

ofc you can still play a worse talent if you want

but flying daggers provides nothing meaningful besides damage on smth that will end up being 10-15% of our damage (and it shouldnt ever be more than that)

[hybrid portal]

where in the tree is lethal dose?

[dark garnet]

Right of deathmark

[hybrid portal]

holy wow

what a talent

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jb0Yx/23a765d69e.jpg

imo this would be much cooler

if there was a follow up passive to CT

[hybrid portal]

im so tired i looked in my tree and realised it does not look like this

[marble hemlock]

like a choice node. something like
Choose:

1. Removes CT Initial damage. Improves its damage over time
2. Lowers DoT damage by 50%. Increases initial damage by 100%

[oak sky]

so quick question

does sin still have 120 energy

is that dead

[marble hemlock]

we dont know (as far as im aware)

basically, all the benefits that come with choosing a spec

we dont know if we keep those or not

[oak sky]

hm

does this look like a decent execute build

[hybrid portal]

im sad that outlaw looses 15% movementspeed

[marble hemlock]

i.e. we dont know if mfd will be 30sec cd or 60 for assa

[marble hemlock]

cause rn assa has a modifier that reduces mfd cd by 30sec

[hybrid portal]

does sub not have that?

[marble hemlock]

will we keep that? we dont know yet. its part of the aura-buff spell ID, same as the increase to max energy etc.

http://puu.sh/Jb0ZQ/41f382b32a.png

theres a bunch of others, including the aura% for pvp and pve

[subtle tundra]

I also don't like having mfd as a must pick if you want cheat death

[marble hemlock]

theyre all part of the same spell ID, and we can assume that they stay

[subtle tundra]

Which you want

[oak sky]

improved sap

just noticed that

[hybrid portal]

imma go ahead and say assa will still have all that

[oak sky]

ye probably

[brave gyro]

Realz was talking about swapping MFD and CB on the general tree

which would make more sense for sub

and for assa in fairness, since u can smooth out openers and energy pooling etc.

[dark garnet]

So what choice nodes would you guys like to see? Personally i think many would appreciate mfd being a choice.
Also find it kinda weird theres no bleed st capstone, could maybe have a choice on bottom right for a st/cleave talent

[brave gyro]

well, as I mentioned, MFD not being above Cheat potentially would make it more optional if u dont wanna drop down to Seal Fate

[dark garnet]

Still the same problem, only sf isnt as strong as dance now

Forced into mfd playstyle because you want sf isnt ideal either

I like mfd personally, but hear a lot of ppl not liking it

[brave gyro]

I thought this version of Sinister calling would be pretty fun as a choice node.

Obviously not with multistrike, but someway to advance bleeds (for sub / outlaw it can be whenever Weaponmaster procs) and for assa it could be whenever muti crits with both or something

But yeah, things like MfD and CB should probably become choice nodes

[dark garnet]

Also gonna be a lot of buttons from the looks of it, having a passive choice would be perfect imo

[brave gyro]

with some other spells

[brave gyro]

thats why i like the wod sinister

[subtle tundra]

i honestly think there are gonna be way too many buttons

[dark garnet]

Its also a problem with tea, such a minor effect but an extra button to manage makes it even worse

I like the idea of it, but cds gives so much energy already you dont need it during them

[subtle tundra]

shadow dance, cb, mfd, tea

[brave gyro]

i believe it was said they will look for a way to buff tea

yeah, in the pins u can see

[dark garnet]

Ye its getting looked at

[dark garnet]

Also think nodes that buff mut should also work for ambush

Or a seperate synergy for ambush, like advance bleeds etc

[strange python]

We're gonna have too much stuff on our bars

ambush can stay in the spellbook

[dark garnet]

Blindside enjoyers in shambles atm

We got sublaw, now its subsin time

[heavy haven]

we got sublaw, now there is subsin, asslaw time about to start

[dark garnet]

He did mention making garrote better didnt he?

Having so much of outlaw improve ss ps and ambush and then still have garrote worth is gonna be a challenge

[icy agate]

mentions of iron wire buff/cb on garrote/taking imp garrote out the class tree and baking in the sin talent

yeah making garrote pressable for outlaw seems difficult

[dark garnet]

And i dont want it to just be so strong that you just keep it up for the bleed despite no synergy

[icy agate]

00:58] Realz: This is something I've been thinking about, but you're one of the first to bring it up. If Garrote is going to remain an option to click in the main tree, I'm likely to find at least 1 or 2 talents (each) for Outlaw and Sub to select that give it some extra flavor and power to occasionally be worth using. Need to find the right amount of 'oomph' so that it's a cool deviation but not a huge intrusion to normal rotations

well the mention was for it to have some flavour but i have no idea what that could be

[dark garnet]

I wonder if it would be better to have rupture as the available bleed, not as much conflict with the ol tree at least

Just cto and dispatcher

[icy agate]

rupture there would be even worse for outlaw yeah

[dark garnet]

Worse?

[icy agate]

yeah, atleast garrote silence has a use here and there. rupture you'd never press (unless added to cto/dispatcher) and its finisher bloat

i liked the discussion of 2 shiv charges, 1 shiv where garrote is and garrote where improved garotte is, imp garrote rolled into the sin talent

[dark garnet]

But the outlaw doesnt have the silence

And outlaw has a lot of builders already

[icy agate]

true garrote would need the silence on the spec tree

but yeah it should only be for the utility for outlaw imo

when you need to assist getting a caster mob into a pull

outlaw has a lot of builders+spenders... i'm fairly certain rupture is completely off the table

[dark garnet]

2 damage spenders isnt a lot

[onyx quiver]

hey guys newbie here what tree looks the mos tfull for df?

[dark garnet]

Full? As in finished?

[cursive orchid]

yeah not catching that question

[heavy haven]

i think he means useful mh

[cursive orchid]

priest generic is bonkus imo

[dark garnet]

Rogue in general looks great, and would be fun even in current state

Not 100% sure on sub tho

[cursive orchid]

yeah sub is just too wide

assa looks poggers even if it deals dog dam i'll play that

[onyx quiver]

what is better for you at the moment just an outlook. outlaw or assassi? jsut in terms of talent outlook

[dark garnet]

Honestly they are both really good trees that look very fun while allowing multiple builds

I wouldnt be able to pick a favourite without trying them out

Assassin is uncapped tho, which would be very nice if there are a lot of huge pulls

Being capped when half the dungeon gets pulled just feels bad

[cursive orchid]

i have to disagree

there is nothing wrong with being caped

it an issue of lacking damage

let say you deal 3 times WL damage to 5 target

it would be fun

you would be blastin

you wouldn't care

there was a really good conversation yesterday about this topic

[dark garnet]

Its much less likely having a class be so much stronger at cleave

[gusty mirage]

Well I’ll tell you right now; target cap is irrelevant if your damage is tuned like shit

[cursive orchid]

look at ww monk this expac

[gusty mirage]

It’s a meme in the outlaw community perpetuated by some top mythic plusers who have no idea how numbers actually work and thought that target cap was why outlaw was mediocre

And people saw them say it and ran with it

Uncapping outlaw in its current state would be obscenely broken

[dark garnet]

Every class works on 5t, huge difference appears when a capped class competes vs an uncapped in huge target counts

[gusty mirage]

Well they fixed that with tuning didn’t they?

Outlaw cranks now

Uncapping wasn’t going to magically make outlaw do monk damage

It was tuned like shit

[sullen torrent]

what if current state outlaw gets uncapped

[gusty mirage]

It’d get nerfed

[sullen torrent]

but would it be ww lvl's strong or less

I don't play outlaw and I'm curious

[gusty mirage]

Currently? Probably not still

Ww’s schtick is shit ST godlike aoe

Outlaw has fantastic ST

And great 5T cleave

[sullen torrent]

so just the way outlaw is designed does not allow it to be gigabroken even if uncapped

it just fits a different niche

[gusty mirage]

Yeah outlaw isn’t going to oopsie daisy delete a pack like ww monk or survival or destro

[sullen torrent]

I understand ty

[dark garnet]

Thing is gathering a big pull for the group to pop off is fun, and some classes just cant join in

[gusty mirage]

That’s just the remnant of a shit idea they introduced in SL. They uncapped sin and sub, what did it do for aoe?

If it wasn’t for the xymox trinket sub’s aoe would be mediocre at best

[dark garnet]

Im fine with classes having different strengths, but its just a whole part of the game you get excluded from

[gusty mirage]

Blizzard just doesn’t want rogue having fun in aoe it seems

Why that is, idk

[sullen torrent]

I haven't played before SL but it looks like almost all of SL dungeons are designed for large pulls

was that the case with bfa and legion

[gusty mirage]

Legion less so, because they never designed them around keystones

But the strat in m+ was always pull as big as possible and kill them before they kill you

They tried limiting that this expac and everyone hated it

[cursive orchid]

and that is good, for me it means there are difference between classes. what i would like to see is more diversion like burst/sutain/ramp ST/5T/8T/uncapped, ofc how like m+ works it wont happen cuz from my own experience you have either a team or burst into delete pack into huge aoe int wow amazing pug player (kappa)

[gusty mirage]

Blizzard are masters of implementing shit no one asks for ever

[gusty mirage]

Yeah, it would be fine if they fixed the outliers IMO. I think outlaw’s in a great spot right now. It’s just overshadowed by 3 obscenely strong m+ classes

[sullen torrent]

so if they introduce a different type of a dungeons next expac that favours cleave over massive AOE wouldn't that remove the issue of classes being excluded due to their dmg profile

[cursive orchid]

and also this is more exciting than uncaping BF

[midnight mist]

top, street, spires even mist are already dg like that

[dark garnet]

If rogue did 15% more on 5t than wl but wl did 15% more on 12t

[cursive orchid]

so true. my most fun key was with a comp of fmage surv assa rdudu veng tank it played so well

[sullen torrent]

top and streets I agree but ppl still are able to stack multiple packs on mists and spires that require massive aoe input

[gusty mirage]

I just want shrouded suffocation back

[cursive orchid]

i suppose the sweetspot is in 4-5 targets

[icy agate]

its quite a chonky buff to bf dmg in lower targets

[gusty mirage]

Which is super necessary considering they’re hell bent on keeping outlaw capped

[midnight mist]

yeah, what I mean is its already something they are designing dg around, they want different dmg profile to be good in different dgs

[icy agate]

well i think its close to mandatory in m+ to go as far as precise cuts atm

[sullen torrent]

oh yeah I get that 100%

[gusty mirage]

Like you want to keep it 5T? Fine. But you better make sure that it’s not overshadowed by anyone else in that target count

Because at that point it’s not a niche

It’s just bad design

[icy agate]

i'd just accept its 8T in dragonflight though

[midnight mist]

it will always be overshadowed when cds classes pop their cds, I dont think thats so much of an issue

[marble hemlock]

did i open the wrong channel?

[gusty mirage]

Yes

[marble hemlock]

conductor we have a problem

[cursive orchid]

it's target cap time

[gusty mirage]

This is also a very good point

[icy agate]

poison bomb should be fun with aoe rupture

[cursive orchid]

probably 0% chance

[marble hemlock]

yeah. 50 mob pull, apply 50 ruptures, get 50 poisonbombs, do key 1 level lower cause you crash the server

[cursive orchid]

it should be a carnage spell not 5-8 ruptures

[stiff frost]

So are we going to have Poison bomb and say crimson tempest or blade flurry in dragon flught?

[icy agate]

fairly certain it will be ruptures... otherwise you get to stack additional ruptures after and get even more from lethal dose

also scent of blood before it makes it need to be rupture or its so upsetting

[dark garnet]

Its ruptures, but not seperate casts for bomb i think

[icy agate]

true i dont know why i was thinking it was on tick and not on cp spend

[cursive orchid]

feral have this has a talent. i am pretty sure it will work the same

it wouldn't make any sense to have it cast X ruptures at one global

[icy agate]

yeah but their procs are off rip ticks (apex) and not from the cp spent.. i was getting the styles mixed. i agree it will only count as 5cp once etc

[cursive orchid]

also CT has an instant dam component and dot application just in carnage's case the dam component is 0

[dark garnet]

Ferals works different, it doesnt copy rip casts on extra targets

[cursive orchid]

carnage does not copy

it applies the one you would apply with rupture or garrote

[dark garnet]

Thats what i call copy

Not an existing but next cast

Either way, safe to assume they wont allow busted interactions

[cursive orchid]

that is not copy for me copy is like if i press a button on the target and that has a rupture that lasts 3 sec it will be 3 sec of ruptures

[dark garnet]

Like multi bomb or cb apply to all ruptures

[cursive orchid]

this is copy

[cursive orchid]

this

also don't know if anybody asked for clarification on carnage it says AND so can you spread garrote and rupture in 2 globals?

[dark garnet]

Yeah can do both on aoe

Actual quick good aoe damage on sin rogue

5cp - carnage rupture - mfd ct - garrote

[cursive orchid]

vanis garrote or SD garrote

i was thinking that some degen aoe build

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTPFVERBARGgJFxYCBAACKNUaIURURgEBQ8UA

with carnage rup and garote while in dance and spam fok

with 30% crit damage amp

and SD amp

and find weaknes amp

[thorny pond]

DS: Carnage Vanish (NS), Cold Blood, Rupture Garrote Mut CT

[cursive orchid]

also you have 30 % crit while SD

[hollow river]

Feel like Carnage will have to be tuned to not spread all Cold Blood/NS bleeds

[thorny pond]

It said replicate

[hollow river]

Also cold blood may not even work on bleeds

[thorny pond]

It’s at most 1/3 of the CD with uptime

[cursive orchid]

so foks should have baseline 10+3+30+5 = 48% base crit

[thorny pond]

On mobile, every talent is additive not multiplied?

[hollow river]

Believe realz said it’d be difficult to make it work on bleeds as it’d be busted to hit an improved bleed+CB+NS+SD+Deathmark

[thorny pond]

Damn Daniel

CB is crap. I hate this game

[cursive orchid]

good question from experience i would say MA and poision katar is additive

lethality is on your char

[dark garnet]

If it were me id let cb only work on the specific bleed you cast, so carnage cb is main target only

And deathmark extra bleed doesnt cb either

[hollow river]

Pretty sure that’s how it will have to be tuned

[dark garnet]

So cb ct for aoe cb rupture st

Would still be amazing

[hollow river]

(If you can CB bleeds at all)

[dark garnet]

Ofc

[hollow river]

Could NS them tho ofc

[dark garnet]

If it doesnt what would we use it for?

Ttb? Kek

[hollow river]

Not sure what he’ll have it work on. If it even stays where it is on tree

[dark garnet]

Also, if cb works on bleeds, and he brings back sbs

Hmmm

[hollow river]

Yep

[cursive orchid]

no dude no

[hollow river]

Won’t be allowed to buff the bleed I’d assume

Dunno about everyone else but I’d like to have good base ability damage tuning so we’re not fully dependent on all these amps

[thorny pond]

Nah. Love amps

[cursive orchid]

get amps -> go bonkus -> get nerfed -> lose amp -> die

it's very familiar to me...

bfa sub

[vestal wren]

alpha will be broken on a lot of levels

so if alpha comes out, you will see people come from all places

[cursive orchid]

do we expect to get alfa into rog TC-s hand?

[vestal wren]

probably not early

[cursive orchid]

i am hoping

[vestal wren]

streamers spread the idea that alpha starts today

so first invite wave might be today

for tcs, its hard to predict who gets in

guy, whispyr and me will get in at a later state due to wowhead

(likely)

[cursive orchid]

how do you approach giving feedback to devs? i think i wanna do it, but never done that expect when beta was live i did in game

[vestal wren]

well, the dev is active in the discord recently

so there is discussion

[empty hinge]

So streamers like asmon/toweliee get in the first wave I suppose to show some type of gameplay mostly more casual stuff

[cursive orchid]

and also dunno if i wanna await for alfa to see.

[cursive orchid]

yep i have seen that

[vestal wren]

it is about attention

[copper hazel]

isnt there usually an alpha forum where you can make posts about stuff

[vestal wren]

basically tcs do have a high impact on the community

but thats not seen as reach because unlike on twitter/youtube/twitch

you can't measure it

hence there is not a big incentive to consider them for alpha

as they at least for the marketing team are "useless"

[cursive orchid]

but alpha shouldn't be for marketing (i know idealist)

[copper hazel]

lol

[vestal wren]

alpha is for testing

and feedback

i did talk about it last alpha a bit more in detail

[gusty mirage]

And marketing

[vestal wren]

the problem with streamers is that they do mostly engage with the system that will get attention

so for 10.0 it will be talent trees

the new flying stuff

and professions

for 9.0 it was torghast

you had basically 3 weeks of constant torghast content

and then a complete fallout of alpha content

feedback about gameplay was also leaning a lot towards what was OP

not what played good

[cursive orchid]

makes sense

[vestal wren]

in the same sense that you will get a lot of influx of people joing the discord servers

to learn the new spec if they are op

on alpha

[cursive orchid]

yeah

[vestal wren]

also, i don't want to try to make a statement that streamers are better/worse at anything

its usually just that e.g. if you have people that like me worked for hundreds, potentially by no thousands of hours on optimizing gameplay for rogue, you get a different perspective

i remember joining a popular streamer who did test rogue in twitch chat

on alpha, and he seemed super confident that rogue is op

because black powder (back then called shadow vault) did negate fall damage

the 0.5 sec global lock was not precived as bad at all

and it is hard, if you are a generalized content creator, you possibly don't have the time to dive that much into each class

[cursive orchid]

and in my opinion you shouldn't need to. i get that ppl don't like streamers getting alpha, but for me i always regarded as that they only see that streamers get the alpha access, but in fairness they are usually the ppl that you can see bc they stream it. so it's like a circle of comformation bias

[vestal wren]

yes

i think this is where you should invite people to join you

there are experts, why not utialize it

[meager granite]

I would not understand if people like you whispyr or seli dont get prio on alpha & similar persons for other classes.
The point of alpha is getting feedback

Bêta is for hyping shit up & where you want big streamer name

[marble hemlock]

the first wave of alpha invites etc. are typically going out to content creators and other people that will drive a lot of traffic and hype to the game

[thorny pond]

It depends what they want feedback on. Big TCers like Fuu and Whispyr will do numbers testing regardless of access to alpha/beta. Do they want feedback on gameplay feel, quests, dungeon design etc? Or other motives entirely

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, it sucked that in SL beta none of us got alpha, and few of us got beta before they removed most of the testable stuff from the servers

[strange python]

You could also assume that a content creator more closely resembles the largest mass of players...that's to say anywhere in the skill level between 10% and 90%.
It's safe to assume that most other folks you're talking about are in the top 10% if not the top 1%.
That's not to say that their feedback isn't super valuable - and helps the community a ton...
Just that, no matter what, if they create a playable game for the 10-90% of people, those top 10% (1%) will do their thing either way.

But yeah i do agree with what you are saying

I dunno, that sounded good before I typed it out

[marble hemlock]

they are not providing feedback though

they are playing alpha for a few days cause it gets lots of viewers, and then they move on

most of the "big streamers" that got alpha in SL were not regular wow players at all, they just got paid to hype up the alpha and game

[meager granite]

Can we possibly assume that for example thé feedback from seli on assa m+ is more valuable than streamer#45 ?
Thats how you make the hype also

[strange python]

I'm not sure that's true Kah

[meager granite]

Streamer Just go through stuff for content

[marble hemlock]

i.e. a bunch of highrated m+ players got alpha pretty early. they played it for a few days, then they went back to retail and pushed highkeys again. not exactly high value feedback

[strange python]

I'm not sure how you'd 'quantify' the value of one's feedback versus another honestly. I'd like to assume that good feedback from a 30% parser is just as valuable as good feedback from a 95% parser, honestly.

[meager granite]

They dont have a real critical minds et when looking at things or system

Most of thel are Just happy to have access

[strange python]

Yeah - they would tend to feedback more on "feel" i agree

[marble hemlock]

exactly. once the content runs out, they have no vested interest in continuing to play. so people like sloot spammed torghast on basically every class and really tried to play it as much as they could, while others logged onto their main, checked out some quests and talents, and then forget about alpha/beta until raid testing

[strange python]

But we all feel the game as we're playing

[thorny pond]

Generally, streamers will get content from alpha by offering that as an option. “WoW DF Alpha - Questing in Zone 1” is much more engaging and the streamer will get content played, feedback provided and then it allows people who didn’t get alpha a chance to see, hype and offer their own feedback

[ebon notch]

bruh how much revenue do you think selis feedback generates

honestly how much

[meager granite]

Wdlle their vestes intérêt would be to not have a shit extension/class design for the next 2 years....
But that does not drive viewership...

[thorny pond]

Easy billi

[ebon notch]

cause i guarantee its less than people watching max fuck around in the new hub city for 2 hours

and thats all that blizzard cares about

[meager granite]

Blizzard can have the big names and the likes of seli

Their are thé one handling the invites

Its not X or Y

[ebon notch]

but if they invite seli, theyre skipping on someone else with potentially bigger viewership

[meager granite]

Can be And

[ebon notch]

potentially someone in a market that they are trying to tap

this isnt throwing shade at seli at all

but they will only go after people who make them the most money

[meager granite]

What makes them money is keeping their playerbase

[ebon notch]

no

thats not true at all

[thorny pond]

If Seli did a hot tub stream of alpha, twitch would break

[copper hazel]

ROI is now return on invite rather than investment

[ebon notch]

that makes them money is keeping the portion of the playerbase that spends the most money

its a very small portion of the playerbase that keeps the revenue flowing

as long as they keep those guys hooked theyre golden

[meager granite]

True then they should Just sell mount and tmog and stop reworking talents or systems on expansion.

[ebon notch]

of course they cant let the game completely die but they will do w.e they can to squeeze the rest

[ebon notch]

have you seen how many mounts theyve sold?

every time a new one comes out some whale is standing in oribos for 12 hours a day using it

[meager granite]

For higher margin

[ebon notch]

they didnt bother fixing the covenant system until 9.1.5 and even then it wasnt fixed

because it doesnt generate them a single fucking penny

[copper hazel]

Chris Wilson, the POE main man just did a very good interview with Josh Strife Hayes about all this kind of stuff (not specifically about alpha/betas) but game dev and retention, etc

[meager granite]

And what cause the change on covenant ?

[ebon notch]

people get hyped when a new expansion releases and they get hyped at the end cause a new one is coming

all they have to do is make sure people come back to the game near the end so that they overlap with the new expansion release

which is why all the QOL changes come out near the end of the expansions life cycle

[meager granite]

I guess the low à mount of subs has played a part in that decision

[ebon notch]

theyve had a low amount of subs for a while

all that matters is that they have the right people subscribing

[meager granite]

Yeah but that is not all otherwise they would not spe d si much internal ressources for systems reworks.
And as i said blizzard is fixing their invites and nothing stops them to invite whoever the big target streamer is and People who are most likely to give them constructive feedback on key elements of the expansion.

[marble hemlock]

youre assuming that people who get thousands of viewers actually spend the time to provide meaningful feedback after theyre done playing the alpha after a few days.

few people that get alpha/beta actually write multiple pages worth of feedback in documents they pass forward, or on the official forums, or using the bug report feature on the alpha

[ebon notch]

but they dont spend a lot of money on system reworks

everything they have done is stuff that has been suggested by the community since alpha

they just drip feed it to us

remember conduit energy?

[meager granite]

Depends what you call lots.
But they still allocate ressources for them

[ebon notch]

you mean they keep the game running?

yeah true they do

[meager granite]

Talent reworking in DF would not be essentiel for the game to keep running

[ebon notch]

it is a feature of the new expansion

they need something to draw people in

something for the streamers to advertise

you are being too naïve

[meager granite]

Nah dont worry about that working in finance for years with the high executives who make these kind of decisions made me lose that behaviour long time ago.

Your reasoning is based on the fact that their is an arbitrary limit on alpha invites. Fixing shit up is an investment for the future, especially after such à huge revamp

[royal lantern]

its not a feature

and calling wow "keeping the game running" just makes you look like an idiot because they literally hired an entire devteam for wow alone

[ebon notch]

i meant that in the sense that you need to have a dev team or else the game will not work

it is the bare minimum required to keep the game online