assassination

[manic anvil]

flying dagges = echoing blades?

[balmy condor]

no, read it again

[subtle kiln]

this place was better when it was horny chatter

[balmy condor]

I need to actually shower and get to work but there's so many chatters in the chat

pov it's your first message in sin in 5 months

[subtle kiln]

you mean assa

[zenith cairn]

me

[subtle tundra]

idk maybe i will have fun with sin in m+ who knows

[burnt latch]

I miss it when this channel was OT2

[thorn fjord]

We’re all in denial

[bleak sky]

we all will my brother

back to sin m+

[subtle tundra]

but at the end of the day, if the numbers low it can be extremely fun cause it dont matter

[bleak sky]

[thorn fjord]

Mythic prog gonna be pirate

[bleak sky]

yes with all the numbers we have available

and all the tuning changes

and balance changes

[thorn fjord]

Yep

Exactly @bleak sky

[bleak sky]

and whatever the fuck they release with dragonflight

[subtle tundra]

lol if you think that outlaw talent will be going live you crazy

[burnt latch]

Thats pretty bold to assume ppl will bring 2 rogues

[cursive summit]

PI went live lul

and windfury

[subtle tundra]

yea but they arent at the same level of crazy that talent is

[bleak sky]

those don't seem to be nearly as powerful as the outlaw talent

[blazing totem]

I say let Outlaw have their fun for once

[bleak sky]

like not even clsoe

[thorn fjord]

I really hope they make wf baseline for whammies

[subtle tundra]

literally breaks the classes strong.

[cursive summit]

Outlaw talent won't stack

[bleak sky]

says who

[thorn fjord]

They’re having their fun now what you mean

[toxic locust]

realz

[grave dove]

Where is smoke bomb ?

[toxic locust]

realz said it probably won't

[cursive summit]

Anybody with a brain will know that won't stack

[toxic locust]

that's the tree dev.

[bleak sky]

ok good

[cursive summit]

theres 0 chance

[burnt latch]

The outlaw talent will only be broken in very nieche scenarios on prog

[bleak sky]

you're gonna do great here

[burnt latch]

Assa talent is mandatory for any early prog

[cursive summit]

😛

[thorn fjord]

Did sub get utility?

[bleak sky]

free devo

[thorn fjord]

Haven’t even bothered looking

[burnt latch]

Ye theyre making way for the 2 other specs

[toxic locust]

to be honest

sin and outlaw trees are so fucking good that i haven't even bothered looking at sub's

because i just don't care anymore

[kind talon]

subs has some interesting stuff but

not nearly as good synergy as outlaw and sin

[thorn fjord]

Interesting butt stuff?

[cursive summit]

Sin tree has me contemplating what I want to main already

[burnt latch]

Sub needs to do absolutely insane amounts more damage than outlaw or sin to even get considered

[grave dove]

aoe 50% movement speed during shroud. /snicker

[placid kraken]

I can't wait for all our hype to be slashed with swift and over the top nerfs 🙂

[tidal gorge]

Alright bring in the sub rogue for the trash skips. Thanks kbye

[burnt latch]

With the raid utility 2/3 specs have id be suprised if sub gets the pick even if it was 10% ahead in damage

[toxic locust]

imagine if almost every spec was this cracked tho

[rose narwhal]

Sub tree has many problems

[burnt latch]

One problem, rest is down to tuning

[balmy condor]

Sub tree is just shadowlands sub

With shiny things

Like old tier

[strange python]

i low key love assa tree

[gloomy knoll]

yea

probably either just backstab juice or regular dance spam sub

[strange python]

it looks great in m+ too not just raid where they'll have to pick rogues now 🤣

[balmy condor]

I agree I think it’s pretty good

[grave dove]

would rather SBS instead of echoing reprimand

[balmy condor]

M+ is a little weird

Zoldyck is just actually unobtainable

But idk

[gloomy knoll]

yea it's kind of annoying how

good aoe or good st talents are split on opposite sides

[balmy condor]

Me and seli were talking about it

[strange python]

how big are the chances of zoldyck simply not being necessary

[gloomy knoll]

like i would love zoldyck but it's like bruh

[balmy condor]

And zoldyck is actually just locked so far down the trees

That it’s not happening

[gloomy knoll]

yea

you gotta get so much dumb shit to get there

[strange python]

wasnt zoldyck mandatory only on denathrius this xpack?

maybe DF will have only one or two bosses as well

[gloomy knoll]

it wasn't even mandatory on denny

[strange python]

and then we would make the exception

[gloomy knoll]

just slightly better for p3 prog

[hollow escarp]

it was decent on denathrius mostly for prog and because most of our legendaries were trash

[strange python]

did they say anything about borrowed power in DF ? or will this be the only numbers we get from these trees

[limber lion]

Ez M+ build

Zoldycks + all the AoE juice

mid path cringe

:')

[chilly marsh]

4 poisons gods \o/

[pallid bough]

@limber lion what do you think about the new cd + exsang?

using them together

[limber lion]

Exsang still bad :(

[pallid bough]

rip

[obtuse robin]

dam sin in m+ looking cracked

[cursive summit]

Exsang was so good in legion prepatch

400% was ridiculous

[grizzled jay]

@balmy condor i know sims pending and all but what're your initial thoughts on SD + Ambush CP talent?

[blazing totem]

why exsang bad tho? it’s free DPS for 1 talent point no?

[balmy condor]

Except it’s probably too good to not take

[limber lion]

It's a point that's better used somewhere else

[balmy condor]

Blindside probably okay

But idk

Can’t be sure atm

[burnt latch]

So what talents do u guys think we’ll be playing on SLG in s4 boys?

[velvet ridge]

could cut to the chase be a 1 point wonder?

[limber lion]

No

With a few new abilities added to the mix, a 1s per 5cp extension is not enough

We currently get 3s per combo points, even at rank 2 it's less than what we currently have.

[velvet ridge]

ok, we essentially need to envenom every 10 secs min, and 5 secs would be way too short a window, makes sense

[chilly marsh]

i was thinking about alacrity how hard would be to keep 5 stacks with only 1 point?

[limber lion]

Probably very easy

just takes a longer time to get it stacked up

[balmy condor]

We currently use envenom once every 9ish seconds

[chilly marsh]

could maybe save 1-2 points there

[balmy condor]

In current patch

[toxic locust]

no borrowed power besides tier sets

from now on

[velvet ridge]

is bleed dmg, nature dmg?

what is considered nature dmg

[balmy condor]

Nature damage is nature damage

[velvet ridge]

ok ty

[balmy condor]

Bleed damage is physical

[hollow escarp]

^^

[blazing totem]

physical that ignores armor

[toxic locust]

bleed damage has the nice property of being undispellable aside from shit like bubble

in pvp

[balmy condor]

Yeah ignores armor

[toxic locust]

and it ignores armor yeah

[velvet ridge]

hm k

[hollow escarp]

but nature damage is buffed by demon hunter 🙂

[velvet ridge]

nautre dmg is magic dmg?

[hollow escarp]

ye

[balmy condor]

Anything that is not physical is magic

[velvet ridge]

vicious venoms looks really fun

[marble hemlock]

I'll really only say one thing, cause it bears mentioning: Obviously a lot of the trees right now look very unfinished or uninspired, with Outlaw having like 7 more talents to choose from than Assassination for example. Also, none of the rogue specs or the class-tree have the multiple-choice talents that basically every other class and spec have.

That's not a bad thing though. To me this means that Blizzard is aware that Rogue will need some work, and instead of tinkering with it behind the scenes, this is our opportunity to provide feedback and potentially help shape the direction that rogue could be taking. So make sure to provide feedback and ideas and maybe we can help make Rogue more fun for Dragonflight this way. Getting the tree out this early despite it seemingly not being finished means we can give feedback sooner than we were able to in the past. That's a good thing.

[balmy condor]

Time to write more articles

[blazing totem]

in the end blizz is gonna do what blizz gonna do

[bleak sky]

You're killing it my man

[hollow escarp]

well, they are reading this chat at least

[hot chasm]

So many buttons to press next xpac

[timid cloud]

Whispyrs new article.

[velvet ridge]

where can i provide feedback, even though im a lowly pleb and my opinion cares more about class fantasy

[timid cloud]

"This shit sucks." - Whispyr 2022

[marble hemlock]

Official class forums would be a good start.

[cursive orchid]

Ngl assa is sure cringe for m+

[marble hemlock]

Comments on the talent-trees etc.

[cursive orchid]

Ofc it can be the excess amount of alcohol

[chilly marsh]

what if take one point from alacrity and put in tea? 300 extra energy for bust is good right? what you think @balmy condor

[timid cloud]

Wasn't MA supposed to be a 3 point talent?

[chilly marsh]

would be that hard to keep alacrity with only 1 point there?

[timid cloud]

I thought Cev pointed that out earlier.

[blazing totem]

not rly, just hard to get it going

[bleak sky]

Once you're set with bleeds you shouldn't really (hopefully) need thistle tea

[hollow escarp]

tbf, the new vendetta doesn't have the energy gain element

[marble hemlock]

theres basically nothing in our trees to boost envenom damage

[hollow escarp]

so thistle tea might have it's use

[marble hemlock]

so getting more energy is... meh

[bleak sky]

Though the dev was saying that in early testing sin feels starved

[marble hemlock]

depending on how it works itll double your energy from dashing and venomous wounds

[blazing totem]

nor stealth reveal

[bleak sky]

Which is why they're moving some energy Regen talents up the tree a bit

[toxic locust]

cold blood and the new poison that specifically buffs envenom

[marble hemlock]

i mustve missed that

[toxic locust]

i dunno

[hot chasm]

with MA beeing 30% instead of 100% maybe dance will proc it

[marble hemlock]

where was that?

[toxic locust]

and yeah realz said as much

[bleak sky]

I'll find and dm you a link sec

[balmy condor]

Thistle is terrible imo

[toxic locust]

VW is going higher in the tree and going back to 7-8

[hollow escarp]

fair, there's a lot of variables that I might be missing from this new tree 😄

[marble hemlock]

coldblood aint an envenom boosting ability

[toxic locust]

cold blood buffs anything

[marble hemlock]

seeing how it could just be used to buff smth else instead too

[toxic locust]

true

[marble hemlock]

so it comes at opportunity cost

[toxic locust]

but it should play nicely with amplifying poison right?

[timid cloud]

Thistle hasn't been good for ages, it ain't Classic anymore.

[balmy condor]

Like I don’t see a world where you use thistle

[marble hemlock]

idk, amplifying poison seems shit

[bleak sky]

@marble hemlock Early conversations help of course, but internal playtesting is already revealing how energy-starved Assa is without late-expansion haste and engines like VW... underestimated the economy, likely to adjust position (and probably back to either 7 or 8 energy like it has been at times in the past)

[toxic locust]

ya think so

[warm parcel]

ofc you gotta use tea

[timid cloud]

I mean, truthfully, a lot of this does.

[marble hemlock]

double posiosn and carnage are the only good t10 talents we have

[bleak sky]

Couldn't get a link because mobile discord is shit

[warm parcel]

tea is an iconica part of rogue

[timid cloud]

Also, one thing that was brought up, we didn't get a "Choice" talent.

[marble hemlock]

aight

[timid cloud]

Like others did.

[balmy condor]

Name checks out

[warm parcel]

:D

[hot chasm]

Imagine fighting a rogue and he stops midfight to sip some tea

[fleet anchor]

Tea should just give like 10% damage for a bit too

[timid cloud]

Like where we choose between 2 iconic abilities.

[fleet anchor]

Then it'd be good :{

[blazing totem]

tea has been a meme for ages

[warm parcel]

now all we gotta do is pray when the multiple choise talents arrive vendetta is nowhere to be found

[velvet ridge]

we also getting deashing scoundrel though, that should be nice

[warm parcel]

fuck that button

[hollow escarp]

it's not great in torghast either

[cursive summit]

sepsis and sbs choice talent would be nice

[bleak sky]

They already replaced vendetta

[chilly marsh]

yea tea is not good but if alacrity is easy to keep it's feels kind like a waste to put points there

[tidal gorge]

I mean, I would take tea over gouge since it has 3 charges

[timid cloud]

Sad that Flag was in the Sub tree, but not Sin.

[tidal gorge]

But that's just me

[warm parcel]

vendetta isnt in the tree rn

[hollow escarp]

I think he meant when they add multiple choice nodes to the tree like all other classes have

[velvet ridge]

i dont like having cold blood or MfD, i hope i dont have to press either of those buttons

[fleet anchor]

Tea is good because old guard Rogues remember using it to gank people with their 1 energy/sec Vanilla energy regen and it was poggers

[tacit otter]

as of now, with 20 bleeds up in aoe i still dumb all my energy into st envenom bc we got no aoe spender? seems so s1 shadowlands man

[timid cloud]

It's Baseline.

[warm parcel]

but as people said before tree is clearly incomplete

[echo patrol]

Tiny Toxic Blades is a meme right?

[marble hemlock]

id like to see smth like mfd/coldblood being a switch-thing, where you pick either or

[warm parcel]

so vendetta could pop up

I just dont want it to

[timid cloud]

Vendetta is BASELNE

[balmy condor]

You’d probably just toss it into nightstalker

[marble hemlock]

main issue is that adding interesting and meaningful/powerful talents that you pick between is kinda hard

[balmy condor]

If anything

[marble hemlock]

cause rogue doesnt have a whole lot of choices for that in the past

[cursive orchid]

You mean skill expression?

[timid cloud]

This dude just writes words that people don't read.

[warm parcel]

My man

[velvet ridge]

vendetta aint baseline

[blazing totem]

we dont deserve him

[chilly marsh]

lol totally missed that one

[warm parcel]

If you believe they are unable to bring back ven even now

[kind talon]

if i dont take deathmark i get vendetta

[warm parcel]

you dont know blizz

[gloomy knoll]

oh wtf

[outer cairn]

mmm fantasy

now we role playing

[gloomy knoll]

they actually just straight up got rid of vendetta

neat

[marble hemlock]

no, not skill expression. just look at the other classes and what kind of powerlevel is locked behind their t9 and t10 talents

[kind talon]

ye

[blazing totem]

why would they tho? deathmark does what vendetta did essentially

[kind talon]

i hope deathmark snapshots

[balmy condor]

Ironic cause I don’t deserve anything

[marble hemlock]

its stuff like boat for boomies, incarn vs convoke, fullmoon procs etc. meanwhile we have coldblood or thistle tea there atm

[timid cloud]

Ah, it actually doesn't.

[kind talon]

yes u do

[balmy condor]

That’s why I’m stuck in this hell scape with people like @marble hemlock

[outer cairn]

deathmark "I'm gonna cut you so bad you wish I didn't cut you so bad"

[timid cloud]

Vendetta had energy regen tied into it.

[kind talon]

u deserve the world whispyr

[bleak sky]

You deserve love and affection, you're a good lad.

[kind talon]

👏

[warm parcel]

cause Im a pessimistic boomer thats been burned by blizz one too many times

[velvet ridge]

i like not having the pick a talent nodes, im glad its not in our tree

[marble hemlock]

nah he sucks, and he betrayed us for fucking kyrian dust sub for most of this tier

[balmy condor]

Stop simping you fucking weirdos

[outer cairn]

double bleeds would mean more energy too

[blazing totem]

you’re a good boy

[warm parcel]

Im kinda out of trust with blizz and their dev work

[balmy condor]

Excuse you, I don’t even have dust UNLOCKED

[marble hemlock]

im not going to excuse you

[cursive orchid]

I get that ofc but eg right now we so trash on aoe the damage differential on good rog and bad is the prio you do (m+)

[bleak sky]

It's my internet if I wanna spend it simping I will

[kind talon]

no 😄

[hollow escarp]

fair, it costs a bunch of honor

[wild lion]

will this be effected by exsanguinate? :D

[tidal gorge]

Death mark should put a jack-o-lantern on the target's head that gets its features carved out over the duration

[balmy condor]

But I need to piss real bad

Wait wrong chat

[velvet ridge]

@timid cloud deathmark applies 2 new bleeds, giving more energy due to venoms wounds

[blazing totem]

anyone’s guess, but most likely

[timid cloud]

[balmy condor]

We don’t know if that’s true

[cursive orchid]

👀

[marble hemlock]

even if it is, it wont make a difference

[velvet ridge]

death of deathmark

[bleak sky]

Exsang

[blazing totem]

[marble hemlock]

exsang will have the exact same value with deathmark or without, because it will only allow you to get a few more seconds of unbuffed garrote+rupture up

[bold drum]

[storm onyx]

tbf I thought they would kill exanguinate next expansion in the end

[gloomy knoll]

does deathmark

hangover

like current 4pc

tho

[balmy condor]

Deathmark is a bleed that duplicates garrote and rupture. That could mean:

1. The bleed it applies duplicates the damage of gar/rup
2. It doubles the tick rate
3. It doubles the damage
4. It adds new garrotes/rupture that are affected by everything
5. It adds new fake garrotes/ruptures that simply do the damage and nothing else

Now you tell me

Which of those it is

[balmy condor]

Cause I don’t fucking know

[bleak sky]

Esra you wanna get shot or what

[gloomy knoll]

6. you reapply garret and rupture right before deathmark falls off for extended double juiced bleeds

[bold drum]

the one that allows us to use exsanguinate

[blazing totem]

tbh I feel like 5. will be the case

[bold drum]

[gloomy knoll]

[warm parcel]

my bet is this spell is built upon the old clone

spaghetti wise

[cursive orchid]

Basically exang is good if you can snapshot haste which the talent tre does not provide

[marble hemlock]

Even then its kinda trash

[bleak sky]

I'm betting on 4 to be deathmark

[marble hemlock]

It was only good in BfA, because we had shrouded and BotE boosting its efficacy

[blazing totem]

I am willing to bet that deathmark will just put a copy of bleeds on the target tho I doubt it will double-dip on energy regen

[bleak sky]

2 instances of garrote and rupture cloned

[marble hemlock]

So it actually allowed you to get more of a boosted dot into another short-duration burst window

[gloomy knoll]

do cloned bleeds snapshot

[marble hemlock]

It'll msot likely just be another rupture+garrote debuff that provide energy through VW

[gloomy knoll]

can cloned bleeds melt steal beams???

[cursive orchid]

That's what I mean if those does not exists they are just regular bleeds

[bleak sky]

And we have no way of knowing this now

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, we simply dont know

[bleak sky]

So best bet is to chill, wait for testing and then think

[cursive orchid]

True big true

Will the be tier sets?

[bleak sky]

But I'm excited to come back to assassination, I like the tree

[blazing totem]

I will be big sad if it applies non-buffed basic clones of bleeds

[marble hemlock]

best thing is to think about the possible options, which one would be best, and try to see if we can nudge blizz into teh right direction 😉

[balmy condor]

Exsanguinate will not survive without more bleed oriented burst. There is nothing on the tree to facilitate that except deathmark, nightstalker, and a nerfed subterfuge. Given those are the options, exsang will simply not keep up. In bfa it needed subterfuge on 7 different types of roids with shrouded, and a fuck ton of haste, in legion it had artifact points to buff rupture, in shadowlands it had nothing, and based on current talent trees, it currently has nothing in dragon flight either

[blazing totem]

hopium

[gloomy knoll]

kinda annoying sepsis is tied to it

ngl

[bold drum]

we hope for tier

[gloomy knoll]

oh wait that's doomblade

[balmy condor]

[worn sorrel]

why kyrian cov and no venthyr nefcro 😦

[balmy condor]

Sub gets venth

[marble hemlock]

The problem with Exsang is still the same. If the fight lasts 30 seconds and you have 20 seconds of buffed bleeds and 10seconds of unbuffed ones, Exsang condenses that into 10seconds of buffed bleeds with the same damage, and 20 seconds of unbuffed bleeds. So the actual DPS gain of Exsanguinate, is 10 extra seconds of unbuffed bleeds. Deathmark being a thing changes exactly zero about this.

The only value Exsanguinate ever had was in conjunction with a bunch of other short-duration damage amps, where condensing 20seconds of buffed bleeds into 10seconds would allow more of those buffed bleeds to overlap with other amps. That is currently not the case for this version of Assa.

[worn sorrel]

oh thats nice

[gloomy knoll]

sub doesn't even like venth that much without the leggo

give it to sin

[bold drum]

even without exsang its prob gonna be fun to play with our new 2min

[white orchid]

Venthyr should’ve been the baseline for all 3

[bleak sky]

That's feedback you can give to the devs on the forums

If you want to see something on the tree, now's the time to give actual good feedback

[marble hemlock]

If you have 20 seconds worth of damage in buffed bleeds, exsang will basically just... keep that 20 seconds worth of damage in buffed bleeds. It'll only add 10 more seconds of unbuffed bleeds, and those unbuffed bleeds have nothing to do with deathmark, thus Exsang and Deathmark have almost no synergy unless a bossfight has a 10sec burst window.

[bleak sky]

Don't just post "where flag" on the forums, make it sound good, give then a reason. They might read the forums and might think about changing stuff

[gloomy knoll]

just gonna say this now

[bleak sky]

And they're open to communication it seems, so

[bold drum]

they also rly love sepsis since its in every class tree but for some reason not baseline

[gloomy knoll]

but you can take doomblade sepsis over atrophic ct

if you wanna troll your raid for that st juice

[balmy condor]

There’s many things you can do

[bleak sky]

Depends on tuning

[marble hemlock]

At the end of the day, we will most likely get Alpha soon, right about when Whispyr goes on vacation in Germany. So at the most important time, Whispyr is unavailable. Since he is literally the only person to ever have done anything for Assa, if the spec turns out shit, blame him getting drunk with me in Germany instead of testing alpha and reporting feedback.

#blamewhispyr

[balmy condor]

Seli was trolling around with some cursed mutilate buffing thing

[cursive orchid]

is flag even good without snapshoting and or the vers buff?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[gloomy knoll]

i mean could be good

skip double poisons

[marble hemlock]

genius and insanity arent far from each other

[cursive orchid]

how so?

[balmy condor]

It’s damage and haste what do you want from it

[tidal gorge]

I was doing that too in the calculator 😄

[balmy condor]

A handjob?

[bleak sky]

We played non obedience flag last tier

[cursive orchid]

ah i see raids

[white orchid]

Even though it’s way early most of those builds people are making don’t even include the new cov abilities lol. Feel awkward if we got those shadowlands abilities just to not even use them if a better talent tree route exists

[balmy condor]

We played flag in 9.0, 9.0.5, 9.1, 9.2,9.2.5,9.2.7

[cursive orchid]

i am an m+ player i never played flag without ob

[balmy condor]

We take flag in m+ too

What

[gloomy knoll]

mutilate juice

[storm onyx]

Compared to Echoing reprimand which is not ideal with Assassination cp generation character; Flag is flat gain in press

[balmy condor]

Yeah and then take dance and the entire right side of the rogue tree

[gloomy knoll]

oh lawd

[balmy condor]

That’s the seli tech

[cursive orchid]

yes but we have tier snapshot and vers gain for m+ you want crit/mastery for aoe

[gloomy knoll]

wouldn't the left side be good tho

since you get crit + cp + crit dam on mutilates

[marble hemlock]

its not that much

and costs too many points

[timid cloud]

Maim, Mangle & Blindside.

[gloomy knoll]

super st

mutilate juice build

[balmy condor]

We played flag before this patch my guy

[cursive orchid]

yeah but couldn't you think of anithing better to press? 🙂

[gloomy knoll]

the forbidden tech

[timid cloud]

CEASE

I'm not playing ||ER or Exsanguinate||

[balmy condor]

Seli took one look at the tree and really said “yo but what about just more mutilate”

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Ja9H0/bf938a80cf.jpg

[balmy condor]

[timid cloud]

I'll hang it up right now.

[marble hemlock]

this is the

builder build

[bleak sky]

Make a nice post on the forums and give them constructive feedback :)

[gloomy knoll]

oh yea

i could see that being better

than going left side

[marble hemlock]

where every mut is 2cp, every ambush is 4cp

[balmy condor]

No seal fate

Just mut

[gloomy knoll]

why is ambush 4

[marble hemlock]

and your blindside procs will give you ambush

[gloomy knoll]

wouldn't it be 3

[marble hemlock]

and your sepsis

which means even without dance/vanish

[bold drum]

only build never spend

[marble hemlock]

you get findweakness

[bold drum]

[bleak sky]

Honestly I wouldn't mind playing something like this

[marble hemlock]

for higher mutilate damage

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen this before

[marble hemlock]

for more doomblade

have you thought about that whispyr? have you? HAVE YOU?

[gloomy knoll]

i mean i could definitely seeing this be good on st

[balmy condor]

The 8.3 ptsd flashbacks

[cursive orchid]

ofc

[marble hemlock]

blindside proc > ambush > find weakness

big mutilates

[balmy condor]

Find weakness buffing 20% of your damage

Giga pog

[storm onyx]

out of 4, Flaggellation is the most inclusive one to all 3 specs; thats the point

[marble hemlock]

SHUN THE NONBELIEVER

SHUUUUN

https://tenor.com/view/charlie-the-unicorn-shun-the-non-believer-gif-3479764

[chilly marsh]

would be fun one execute build with blindside

[balmy condor]

Seli always talking about more bleed/poison identity in sin and then seeing the tree and avoiding it as much as possible

[marble hemlock]

not my fault

[bold drum]

[marble hemlock]

ill tell you

if doomblade/vicious venoms worked with ambush too

that build would be fire

[gloomy knoll]

wait

why go

poison bomb instead of zoldicks

you don't get 2 lethal poisons anyways for amplifying

[cursive orchid]

that is not an argument for me sorry it seems to me that flag is the least shit (rn it synergies with tier so does not apply)

[gloomy knoll]

and zoldicks juiced doomblade + blindside

[marble hemlock]

cause zoldick doesnt do shit for your bigass mutilate dam

[balmy condor]

Poison bomb 1 point zoldyck 3 points

10% damage under 30%

[gloomy knoll]

yea but your putting a point into a useless talent for pb

[bleak sky]

Flag was good without tier

[marble hemlock]

youd drop bomb tho

for VW

obviously

[bleak sky]

Flag is a good spell

[marble hemlock]

i did that wrong

[gloomy knoll]

could do like

would amplifying poison even be useable

without tempered blades

[marble hemlock]

then you drop atrophic poison cause the bleed/poison cuck in your raid can play that while you like big muts and they cannot lie

[balmy condor]

No no minalba, it’s only good with current patch, now using stuff from previous patches tell me why it’s good. But realize that I will just tell you it’s worse than right now, where it’s juiced 4 different ways

[marble hemlock]

but nah, memes aside

[bleak sky]

I legitimately would like to play that build seli

Don't think it's too much of a meme

[marble hemlock]

trees are a good foundation, hopefully we can get some stuff moved up like the resource gen stuff, and maybe blizz will be able to scour through the trove of scrapped abilities and find some better stuff for t9/10 talents

sadly for assa there inst a lot to choose from

theres like... kingsbane, hunger for blood, and thats about it

thats all of the assa abilities we had in 16years

[kind talon]

what poisons does assa have

[tidal gorge]

e c h o i n g b l a d e s

[kind talon]

baseline rn

in DF

[marble hemlock]

fuck echo

scent is better than echo

[bold drum]

thats what i thought aswell "mid-tier" tree is very strong but the bottom is kinda meh outside of 2 things

[balmy condor]

I just like the left tree around zold needs help

[cursive orchid]

this

[sharp falcon]

BTW, the Wowhead talent calcs have the 8-lock on the wrong row, the Rogue trees have them 1 row higher than other trees you've seen so far (so, it's really required spend 8 in first 3 rows instead of 4 like it shows). Probably only makes a small difference, but worth noting for those messing with builds

[cursive orchid]

scent is love ❤️

[tidal gorge]

I do like kingsbane, I wouldn't mind seeing that again

[marble hemlock]

can we get rid of the 20row?

i actually really dont wanna date it

[cursive orchid]

what was kingsbane doing back in the days? (havent played before bfa)

[marble hemlock]

kingsbane did more damage the more poison procs you had during its duration

[gloomy knoll]

kinsbane is a mix between flag and shiv

[marble hemlock]

so it encouraged 100% envenom uptime and as many envenom casts as possible during its duration

[balmy condor]

Ty! Out of curiosity can you share what it means to “duplicate” with deathmark? Will it double the debuffs and give us twice the energy from say venomous wounds?

[marble hemlock]

frankly, it was a boring ability

idk why people liked it

[sharp falcon]

yes, two separate instances of the debuff

[cursive orchid]

thanks

[marble hemlock]

id just like kingsbane over improved shiv, so we dont have to use utility for damage anymore. same amount of CDs, just a better/more involved one

[balmy condor]

That’s nuts

[kind talon]

will it snapshot or track with the deathmark

[bleak sky]

Based ability

Good shit

[sharp falcon]

undetermined, in part because of balance concerns tbh. I'm trying to figure out what knobs I have to turn, and what others may be necessary at the end of the day. But what you see is the full spirit and initial intention, tuning TBD

[balmy condor]

Realz living up the name

Deathmark sounds like a good ability

[glass tulip]

you boys have been popping off today, I havent had a chance to come back in and see the trees

[bold drum]

very overall

[balmy condor]

I’m still concerned about some of the placements and stuff but sin tree is the most exciting to me atm

[marble hemlock]

thats cause you havent even looked at the others you doofus

[kind talon]

outlaw tree is the most exciting ot me atm :)

[balmy condor]

I have

[marble hemlock]

[balmy condor]

I’ve literally DM’d you about them

What

[marble hemlock]

when did that happen?

[gloomy knoll]

i like the sin tree

[balmy condor]

Don’t look at me like that

[gloomy knoll]

the sub tree

is the really annoying one

got tons of st shit on the left and right and mid

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Ja9LM/2d28565a12.png

[kind talon]

shadow dance restless blades actually pog af!

[marble hemlock]

[sharp falcon]

FWIW I think the Assassination tree has the most problems and it would be reasonable to assume this previewed version isn't its final form

[gloomy knoll]

so it's very akward to try and put together a build you want

[balmy condor]

Scroll up bozo

[marble hemlock]

not gonna quote what you wrote there

cause you were calling outlaw and sub players mean things

[tidal gorge]

Is there an intent to add a choice slot or two to the tree or are we gonna be the class without those

[balmy condor]

[sharp falcon]

As an example, Venomous Wounds location is the biggest swing-and-miss, and will be moving up to a more easily accessible location within the first 4 rows

[marble hemlock]

[sharp falcon]

Right now it's just bad, regret

[bleak sky]

Good change good change

[marble hemlock]

is amplifying poison 30% per stack or 2%? :>

[strange python]

Is that confirmed?

[bleak sky]

That's the dev

[strange python]

O

[sharp falcon]

consume 15 stacks for a 30% boost, so 2% per stack if you want to think of it that way

[marble hemlock]

need to change my emote now.

[sharp falcon]

plus base damage. Plenty of wiggle room for the details of those numbers to change

[marble hemlock]

thanks for confirming.

[slow needle]

With the new Deathmark now doubling up Ruptures and Garrotes could Exsang become worth?

[gloomy knoll]

make it better than deadly so we call all suffer through agonizing poison again

[bleak sky]

Exsang bad

[balmy condor]

So it doesn’t consume partial? It’s only 15 stacks or no stacks?

[cursive orchid]

so it stacks to 20 and can consume ONLY 15 stacks at a time?

[sharp falcon]

It's already 12sec duration in first public alpha as well, 10sec was dropping too easily

[marble hemlock]

was kinda hoping for really juicy envenoms, since there seems to be a bit of a lack of envenom-boosting talents on the tree outside of EP and coldblood i guess

[slow needle]

Even if its speeding up twice as many bleeds?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[slow needle]

RIP.

[marble hemlock]

we should have an exsang command explaining why it sounds better than it is

[sharp falcon]

yes, it consumes nothing until you reach 15+ stacks... it's a very time-investment, single-target focused option

[gloomy knoll]

whispyr should just change his name to yes exsanguinate is still bad

[balmy condor]

Exsang needs a bleed steroid or it simply cannot keep up

[marble hemlock]

thanks for all the responses btw, im sure its a busy time rn with lots of different specs giving input and having questions. this level of communication is greatly appreciated, no matter what the ultimate end result is.

[balmy condor]

Deathmark might be okay for it, but then you’re looking at a 2 min cooldown to enable a 45 second cooldown

Only getting 1 real use out of every 3 casts

[velvet ridge]

i think all the mutilate and ambush shit should be center column zoldycks and venomous wounds center
dragon blades FoK left, crimson tempest right

[white orchid]

Death mark is the new vendetta correct?

[bleak sky]

Sure, but why

[velvet ridge]

left hard poisons, right hard bleeds, center all the random bullshit

[bleak sky]

Replaces vendetta, yes

[balmy condor]

I also want to give my thanks and appreciation realz, having communication is so so nice

[bold drum]

kinda

[sharp falcon]

Exsang balance is touchy in part because of how divisive it is -- some love it, some hate it. Buffing it isn't out of the question, but as where there are currently no choice talents in Rogue trees, making Exsang vs [OTHER] into a choice node would make it easier to buff Exsang for those who do like it, withour forcing those who don't like it to take it anyways

[marble hemlock]

exsang vs kingsbane?

[slow needle]

Out of interest Realz, if you can speak to this, why is it Rogue is the only tree so far with 0 choice nodes in it?

[sharp falcon]

an interesting thought

[slow needle]

Or class rather.

[warm parcel]

Kingsbane

[balmy condor]

The weird thing with left side imo is that you kinda want zold for m+, but then you have to churn through 3 points of mutilate stuff in order to churn 3 points into zoldyck, plus tiny toxic is kind of a funny capstone to have at the bottom of the tree

[bleak sky]

Realz is speaking some realz interesting words right now

[velvet ridge]

i just want the whole tree, can we have the whole tree

[kind talon]

can i ask an outlaw question realz

[bleak sky]

It's the first release of the tree, calm down

[gloomy knoll]

doomblade sepsis on the mutilate side

[grizzled jay]

Yeah that was my thoughts. Shadowdance + Ambush CP + Blindside will be good CP generation.

[sharp falcon]

"Just cuz" is really the answer, I kept finding more reasons to have fewer and fewer choice nodes, and I didn't want a version with like 1 or 2 only. When we get back to 3-4 spots where choice nodes would be good, I'll put em in... but at least this 0 version spawns a good conversation around it, for now.

[gloomy knoll]

and zoldicks kingsbane

in their placre

ez

[sharp falcon]

@ me in outlaw

[balmy condor]

Replacing tiny toxic with kingsbane is an idea imo

And then idk what to do with venom rush, it’s kinda just… well it’s venom rush

[grizzled jay]

TTB is good for the utility aspect right? Always having it if necessary for DR.

Or are we potentially not holding Shiv windows for Deathmark

[sharp falcon]

There used to be 2 charges of Shiv available, which made Tiny Toxic more compelling. I can see how it looks a little meh in this preview version, though (and it's unlikely to go back to 2 charge Shiv)

[balmy condor]

Huh?

[gloomy knoll]

tiny toxic would actually be fun with double shiv

[marble hemlock]

its a solid tree so far. only really disappointing thing for me personally, is that most of the major AoE talents are on the far-left side whereas the big new super hype aoe bleed talent is on the bottom right. that leaves very little room (actually zero room) to pick anything but very specific talents to pick all of them.

really wouldve loved to see CT become baseline, with a few talents that change the way it works, i.e. a split-talent that either increases its duration but removes the initial damage, or removes the dot and increase the initial damage, depending on whether you wanna spam it or cast it less often.

[bleak sky]

Venom rush doesn't sound too bad for a "big mutilate" type of build tbh, unless I'm not seeing something

[balmy condor]

Am i missing something from tiny toxic, I thought it’s 500% more damage

Is there a second part

[lilac haven]

its free

[balmy condor]

Yeah I mean it’s just boring

[gloomy knoll]

it's just 500% + free

[cursive orchid]

aside for not costing energy no

[balmy condor]

FREE

[bleak sky]

Costs a point, not free

[balmy condor]

[gloomy knoll]

free realestate

[balmy condor]

Banger 20 energy saved

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/its-free-real-sate-gif-7215175

[balmy condor]

Huge

[gloomy knoll]

i mean i don't mind venom rush existing just to juice a mutilate build but

tiny toxic blade def is just

meh

[grizzled jay]

No Energy cost

[fleet whale]

Why did they bring venom rush back

[kind talon]

dang that is some good talent

[balmy condor]

Was shiv energy an issue?

[ashen scroll]

@balmy condor how busy are you today

[marble hemlock]

venom rush isnt a bad talent

[bleak sky]

Venom rush is in our current tree, is it not?

[marble hemlock]

its just overshadowed by alacrity

[balmy condor]

I’ve never been in a situation where I’m like “oh shit I would love to shiv but I don’t have energy”

[grizzled jay]

VR is good if it isn't competing with alacrity lol

[slow needle]

Fair enough. Thanks for answering.

[outer iris]

Hey guys! Didnt have much time to read about the new talents(damn work😢) , what are the first impressions?

[marble hemlock]

by itself, for a single point, its a solid pick

[balmy condor]

Everything in pins

[bleak sky]

Pins

[slow needle]

And I'm sorry if that pinged. I think I turned it off then started the reply over.

[balmy condor]

Very, I got to work an hour ago and the first thing I did was dive into the bar and grab 2 Red Bulls

[fleet whale]

and why is ER back, i mean i kind of get it

but i've never been a fan of it

[gloomy knoll]

that's how you play sin duh

you spend all your energy before you vanish

shiv

[bleak sky]

Dev choices for now, I don't know

[gloomy knoll]

how could you do that without free shiv

[marble hemlock]

cause its the only covenant ability that does something "meaningful" for each spec

[grizzled jay]

They chose that as the generic for all rogues

For w/e reason

[bleak sky]

Tree is very clearly subject to change

[oak sky]

I mean sin can just never go down er

[orchid cloud]

what is ER?

[marble hemlock]

sub never used SBS, flag would work really badly with assa cp gen, sepsis is just kinda meh for everybody so its a good thing to have it as a side talent that isnt mandatory or important to take

[bleak sky]

Echoing reprimand, kyrian ability

[balmy condor]

Yeah you get to 0 energy, vanish for the 30% crit, didn’t talent into venomous wounds so you’re getting your baseline 10 energy a second and nothing else, and then after 2 seconds of pooling, you open out of the vanish with a shiv

[orchid cloud]

ah yea

[balmy condor]

The standard Assassination burst opener

[fleet whale]

two charges of step is nice though

[orchid cloud]

the covenant every rogue hates

[bleak sky]

Sub likes it

[gloomy knoll]

guarantee some people be doin that lmao

[bleak sky]

Outlaw does as well to a certain extent

[balmy condor]

Tiny toxic is probably huge for them

[marble hemlock]

how am i supposed to kill 4 deskaludas, 2 kungelaniums, 4 yohos and do my una dailies while MDI is happening and rogue talents are released

[balmy condor]

sir this is an English server

[marble hemlock]

youre german

what are you doing here

[gloomy knoll]

fr i did nothing today

[warm parcel]

This is great content for farming rivendare

[gloomy knoll]

but look at rogue stuff

[balmy condor]

Suffering

[gloomy knoll]

need to go be productive

[marble hemlock]

fair answer

[oak sky]

@gloomy knoll does this make you want to come back PAUSERS

[marble hemlock]

hey i even swapped back to win7 so i could stream and talk about talents for a bit

and i had a VIP on stream

[gloomy knoll]

i mean rogue looks fun but

depends on raid / tier / final builds

i do like the talents so far tho

subs kinda meh / similar to what it's had but

sin and outlaw look great

[fleet whale]

am I tripping or does the sin talent tree have fewer talents compared to outlaw and sub

meaning that it's easier to get more stuff as sin

[marble hemlock]

outlaw has more than sub/assa

it has 7 choices in a bunch of rows, assa has 5 at most, 4 in a bunch

sub has mostly 5 choices each row, with 3 at the start/end

someone who passed 3rd grade math can count them together, im too braindead to do it myself rn

[tidal gorge]

I'm sorta confused by why DP is a talent instead of baseline if it's the first row and you can't take anything else

[bold drum]

3rd grade math

[sharp falcon]

It's well-liked by many, and I realize not all. The hope is that it's just a choice and not something you're forced into. Hopefully we get the balance right so that's mostly true. Hopefully just it existing at all doesn't offend you? =x

[chilly marsh]

not having any choice one talents is weard too

others classes all have

[marble hemlock]

just means that you can have great ideas to propose to add choices to it 🙂

[bleak sky]

It's not final, it's fine

[marble hemlock]

look at it this way, other classes had "finished" trees put in front of them. we get a work in progress and maybe a chance to help shape and design it.

so send in your feedback and thoughts

[velvet ridge]

i dont think the amount of nodes is the issue, its the pathing that limits choices

theres no way to cross the tree

[chilly marsh]

thats the point, its weard not having any many things cna change can be placeholders

[slow needle]

To be fair, considering what Realz said before and looking at the trees the only choice node I'd contemplate putting in is maybe ER/SBS in the class tree. It'd be nice to get that back since we have the other 3 covenant abilities. Have the 2 point node after changing into something to provide Deathspike functionality as opposed to Kyrian lego functionality at the moment.

[balmy condor]

You’ll find that most of the hate for ER will be in here because it’s been historically clunky with seal fate and doesn’t play into Assassination all that much so it’s just kinda been a dead covenant for us that doesn’t provide any interesting gameplay. Lot of Assassination people will write it off on the spot because of it

[bleak sky]

Flag/sbs/ sepsis would be more in line with assassination, not ER

[slow needle]

The Exsang/Kingsbane choice node idea mentioned above could also work well but I'm extremely pleased with this first iteration for Sin and Outlaw.

[balmy condor]

Outlaw and sub on the other hand probably don’t mind as much

They got some good interactions with it that makes them warm and fuzzy inside

[chilly marsh]

cold blood / market to death in my head should be a choice one

[slow needle]

(I've grown bored of Sub this expac so haven't really looked at that one but I have faith its good as well)

[marble hemlock]

assa also has the least use for animcharged finishers. its just a bit of extra duration on rupture since the ap scaling isnt affected by extra CP spent, and envenom duration isnt exactly a big amazing thing either. for the other specs it had more meaningful interactions due to the CDR they got from 7cp finishers

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[kind talon]

could be big with deathmark potentially

[bleak sky]

But is it an actual choice or is it "make a choice node just to have a choice node"?

[kind talon]

pop an er rupture at the end of deathmark

[sharp falcon]

Sub is similarly annoyed because of the random combo generation from Shadow Tech

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that’s not really random

[kind talon]

pop an er rupture at the end of deathmark

[balmy condor]

They can live with it

[marble hemlock]

i doubt deathmark will have the same overhang snapshotting that the current 4pc has

[bleak sky]

It really doesn't feel that bad on sub, you can track s techh. The only annoying one is the 2cp, but even then it's fine

[kind talon]

i hope it will but if it tracks then there is actually no use for er

[marble hemlock]

sorry, i missspelled "i hope"

[chilly marsh]

having both in pvp used to be broken if i remmber correct

[balmy condor]

You’re gonna spend 3 talent points getting 4 extra seconds of rupture that you would’ve had anyway?

[marble hemlock]

assa cp gen is too volatile for ER to really work well

[fleet whale]

Sort of like tea as a talent at least for early game sin

[kind talon]

2 talent points

[fleet whale]

help with energy

[balmy condor]

How are you getting to acro

[bleak sky]

They're moving energy regen up and maybe buffing the numbers so sin shouldn't be too starved

[storm onyx]

Snapshots probably not going to be

[bleak sky]

Tea doesn't look all that appetizing at a first glance

[marble hemlock]

i mean, assa will either be starved early during the expac or not have enough things to spend energy on during the later parts. we had that in legion with the argus tierset only exacerbating that issue

[fleet whale]

but even still, the left side of the rogue tree seems to have better things for sin a s a whole

like i don't think FW is really all that great for sin

[tidal gorge]

I think making DP baseline and moving VW up to where it is would be a reasonable thing to do TBH. It's been kinda required for the spec's energy gen for a long time

[marble hemlock]

dashing+vw with double poisons seems pretty alright for energy sustain

[warm parcel]

But if were setting the new "baseline" for regen with all these talents. The moment you dont take all of them you feel horrible

I dont see this being too delicate either

[marble hemlock]

especially since it was mentioned already that VW might go back to a higher energy/bleed ratio, since 5 energy per proc is definitely a bit on the low-end

[kind talon]

true

[balmy condor]

@kind talon with this tree you need to take
1 sprint, 2 recup, 3-4 ambush, 5 acro, 6 elusive, 7 er

7 whole points to get to er. So you gotta find 7 points

[subtle kiln]

exactly

[marble hemlock]

oh yeah absolutely. it reminds me of the issue we had in MoP when they buffed SS energy cost and increased damage to alleviate the overcapping issues of bis-geared combat rogues, and it was absolutely atrocious for anybody playing combat who wasnt playing with bis gear

[kind talon]

does doomblade work with lethal dose

[balmy condor]

It should

I don’t see why it wouldn’t

[sharp falcon]

if Thistle Tea ends up truly awful, there are adjustments that can be made. I hesitated to add complexity to the effect for legacy reasons and opted for +charges instead... but more elaborate additions to the effect aren't entirely off the table (or just cooldown obviously, but there's a point where it would get annoying to be constantly pushing too)

[marble hemlock]

but since it was said already that VW might be moving up in the trees, i think it'd be less of an issue as youd be able to reach it no matter what direction youre branching into

[oak sky]

Did they just forget to add the deeper finisher damage buff or is it gonezo

[kind talon]

youd probably go 1/2 vicious venom for doomblade then yeah?

[kind talon]

gonezo

[balmy condor]

You could yeah

It’s just a general outline for the tree

[marble hemlock]

well, if you look at sub, they have another deeper in their talent tree, and it has different wording than the one in the class tree. regardless, both no longer have the 5% amp.

[balmy condor]

Atm

[marble hemlock]

sub baseline 7 max CP tho

[subtle kiln]

at any point, tossing out a number, is 25 apm going to be fun?

[balmy condor]

M+ fok bp fok bp fok bp fok bp gameplay coming ONLINE

[marble hemlock]

for a class like rogue? probably not. for a class like WW which has lots of different abilities with low cooldowns? would probably be more fun

[balmy condor]

The flag JUICE

7cp BIG

[kind talon]

wait where is baseline 7cp

[sharp falcon]

intentionally removed for now, it was a tack-on damage amp to make it competitive with other options in its row, in the old talent system. Still a good buff to potential finishers for builds with good combo point econ

[west garnet]

The tree looks so yuuummmy wtf

[oak sky]

Gotcha

Thanks realz

[balmy condor]

There’s deeper on the class tree and deeper on the sub tree

[slow needle]

Isn't Flag a bit disappointing since Obe effect isn't included?

[civic forge]

flag in aoe without obedience is sus tho

[marble hemlock]

our rotation doesnt have a whole lot of complexity so slowing down the resource gain is gonna be noticeable

[sharp falcon]

Outlaw and Sub have Deeper Strat in both Class and Spec trees

[marble hemlock]

on a class where every GCD you have 2-3 choices and have to operate based on a prio list? thats probably fine. regardless, 25apm is too low for any spec

at least for my taste

[kind talon]

ok

[subtle kiln]

i posted this in offtopic but this is always my concern with assa an energy.

[kind talon]

its not baseline thank god

[balmy condor]

Also thank you in advance realz adding 7cp maximums will break all of my current combo point weakauras I hope you’re happy with that

[marble hemlock]

i played and enjoyed assa where you could chat on discord with friends between GCDs

[balmy condor]

[chilly marsh]

double poisons with dragon blade would also double energy gains from dashing

[kind talon]

😭

[marble hemlock]

just never play sub

[kind talon]

[grizzled jay]

Skipping Deeper nty

[west garnet]

Assuming you go Wound/Deadly ye, wouldn't the amp. poison make sense for those gigantic envenoms though?

[marble hemlock]

its why i never had an animacharged CP weakaura, and i never needed one

[sharp falcon]

Sorry, but... inevitable? Shit changes, we roll with it =x

[subtle kiln]

@balmy condor you won’t need a WA with new UI improvements

[grizzled jay]

@sharp falcon hello

[kind talon]

rogue gonna end up with 20cp maximum confirmed

[marble hemlock]

honestly its easier to make weakauras for 5-7 CP than 5-6. can just add one each to the left/right and call it a day.

[grizzled jay]

Hope your evening is going well Realz

[balmy condor]

It’s fine, my feelings are only hurt a little bit

[west garnet]

I mean at one point we sort-of could have a max of 10

[chilly marsh]

amp aldo does some dmg so shoudl tick energy

[marble hemlock]

anticipation

[fleet anchor]

I would say that although it is true that it is divisive and some people seem to love it conceptually, how it has been since it was re-designed in Legion has largely been both very counter-intuitive and numerically very weak. At the end of the day, Exsang doesn't actually generate any damage other than the differential between your Rupture and your Envenom damage per execute. Other than edge cases where you can fit overlapping effects into smaller buff windows.

Historically the only value from it has been from creative use of the Haste snapshotting mechanic, such as snapshotting the Galecaller's Boon effect. Since snapshotting is very deprecated in modern WoW, this is pretty confusing to many players as well.

Pretty much the only time Exang has seen any play is when it can be used to extend the value of on-use haste trinkets.

[kind talon]

wait thats sick

[west garnet]

OH mb you're right, I didn't see that, assumed it was just the debuff. Tasty

[kind talon]

anticipation is cool

[fleet anchor]

Realistically Exsang could probably use some redesigning to just do what people think it does, which is generate extra ticks.

[kind talon]

wow kingsbane would be sick with dragontempered

[marble hemlock]

yeah, if exsang just increased the tickrate without reducing the duration, it'd be really powerful

[west garnet]

What's a shame is if I remember right it was almost never used D:

[kind talon]

:(

[grizzled jay]

Or if we can get to 3000% haste using Corruptions

[balmy condor]

So you’re saying exsang should just give us 100% haste and be called “on use alacrity”

[main solar]

Wouldnt extra ticks for exang literrally just be deathmark though?

[coarse tusk]

How does deathmark read to you guys? Does that mean Deathmark Bleed damage + 2 instances of rupture + 2 instances of garrote + 2 lethal poisons? or Is it a debuff that just doubles rupture, garrote, and Leathal poison damage?

[balmy condor]

Dev has said separate instances

[fleet whale]

Honestly looking the rogue tree appears to be better than some of the other classes that were revealed

Druid for example is sort of a mess

[fleet anchor]

Even in Nyalotha it was mostly used to snapshot GCB and Vita procs into TB windows so it was still mostly reliant on that more than anything else

[west garnet]

I read it as being a dot that also makes double copies of all your rupture/garrote/poison damage each time those things happen

[wide ridge]

tree looks fun

[chilly marsh]

if its not like that letal dose loses a lot of value

[coarse tusk]

that's kind of insane

[balmy condor]

I should add it to the pin

[fleet anchor]

Also in BfA Exsang wasn't really competing with anything powerful

[balmy condor]

These boutta be some fat fucking pins boys

[lilac haven]

all the pins

[bleak sky]

Ain't no one reading that shit and you know it

[marble hemlock]

i mean, once everybody has gone to sleep you can stay up and work overtime and compile some of the responses into an easily digestable form, ye

ill buy you a beer when youre here.

and no, it has to be a beer. no radler allowed.

[tidal gorge]

📌

[balmy condor]

Well, maybe someone will

And I will love them for it

[balmy condor]

Radler GOOD

[fleet whale]

experimental early build i made for fun

https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AACTNFVERBARGglFzJAACKNVaoFQUJgQFQwQA

[balmy condor]

beer way too bitter

[sharp falcon]

I'm usually a lurker but I read class discords all the time =p

[fleet whale]

it's prolly trash though

[subtle kiln]

and you can buff a party or raid member with it instead of using it on yourself.

[sharp falcon]

(mostly Rogue, DH, Priest tho)

[slow needle]

I always read pins first. If the info is there its so much easier than asking a question and then getting 3 different answers till someone with a name colour I trust gives the right one.

[marble hemlock]

we can have some cosmos and shittalk koji

[bleak sky]

Sorry about the dh discord

[oak sky]

Realz do you play rogue

[sharp falcon]

yes Agreon, not exclusively but of course

[balmy condor]

Oh no if you’ve lurked I’m sorry for my bluntness it’s just what I am

[oak sky]

Awesome to hear man looking forward to see what more you can do for us

[kind talon]

Realz i hope you havent spent too much time in Felhammer

[sharp falcon]

I don't get mad

[ebon notch]

Which spec channel is the best and why is it assa

[grizzled jay]

If Realz lurked they've read some based takes from me

[sharp falcon]

It is actually assa

[kind talon]

outlaw

[ebon notch]

LETS GO

[oak sky]

Bro we arent a spec channel its only regulars here

[bleak sky]

BASED DEV

[subtle kiln]

back to horny posting in assa chan lol

[sharp falcon]

assa has more purists than the other channels, and i respect that

[balmy condor]

Insert scarizard screenshot about sub being howling alien people

[oak sky]

This is the sin group chat

[slow needle]

According to Scarizard Sub is the worst.

[bleak sky]

GIGACHAD DEV

[slow needle]

Damn you beat me to it.

[ebon notch]

Whispyr pin that shit

[marble hemlock]

the fact he/she says assa and not sin is sublime

[ebon notch]

Blizz loves us (only on discord)

[balmy condor]

Neigh

[oak sky]

Wait did realz know all of us already then

[royal lantern]

I mean, he was not wrong with THAT

[tidal gorge]

lmao

[royal lantern]

[marble hemlock]

think youll finally have to give up whispyr

its called assa confirmed

[subtle kiln]

@marble hemlock pin this. it’s ASSA.

[bleak sky]

Realz knows you're a parse fiend yes

[balmy condor]

He has a folder on his desktop like a hitlist with everyone’s Warcraftlogs link

[oak sky]

Oh no

[ebon notch]

Realz what are your thoughts on !ban @burnt latch

[tidal gorge]

SIN IS SIN. MY MIND IS MADE UP

[balmy condor]

VERY BASED

[marble hemlock]

very wrong, too

[sharp falcon]

I don't play favorites, though. I have favorites, I just don't play favorites

[balmy condor]

The people who call it assa are weird and European

[oak sky]

I wonder if he presses feint

[gloomy knoll]

are there any plans on moving stuff around in the sub tree @sharp falcon like moving shadowed finishers or the shadow / st stuff up so it wouldn't be gated behind a ton of aoe points

[kind talon]

do you?

[subtle kiln]

gtfo with hataro logic

[kind talon]

[ebon notch]

👀

[oak sky]

Im an ethical jailer gamer

[limber lion]

Hell yeah, we do.

[glass tulip]

Wait aren't you european

[cursive orchid]

but thez are right

[balmy condor]

Not important right now

[sharp falcon]

anything is possible, but you can @ me in the sub channel for sub questions, eating dinner now but I'll get to it eventually

[glass tulip]

[fleet anchor]

Problem with Thistle Tea is just that it probably doesn't quite do enough. Like I think if it was an effect that gave bonus damage or if it reduced energy cost to 0 or half or whatever for N seconds, I think it could be good and easy to tune. But just giving 100 energy every minute is a pretty minimal effect in the grand scheme of things. Even for Assassination which is the lowest Rogue spec, 100 energy is only ~3 seconds worth of average energy regen. So this could be viewed as a 5% energy gain, which probably isn't quite enough to make it stand out.

But we can certainly poke around with it in the meantime. I do think something like a cost reduction approach may be a lot easier to tune though long-term.

(Sorry for the double ping, just thought the TC info on both points may be useful.)

[oak sky]

Red cev is back

[ebon notch]

I only play assa

[gloomy knoll]

will do ty

[marble hemlock]

but yeah, this has been a lovely first day of rogue stuff. i didnt expect it to come this early, and am pleasently surprised, and while its definitely not "perfect" and most likely never will be, this level of communication just warms my heart after a long time of us rogues feeling pretty ignored and relegated to the back-seats, especially after we never got our promised pickpocket-crimson vial stuff

[ebon notch]

STOP REACTING

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Koji being an actual respectful human and staying on topic

I wish I had that level of self control

[oak sky]

Feel like i contributed to this

My bad

[ebon notch]

You are bad

Find a new guild

And take @kind talon with you

[oak sky]

Yes sir

[fleet whale]

Of the classes revealed, the rogue tree seems to be the best one

At least imo

[oak sky]

Ill update my wowprog today

[blazing totem]

does the calculator work for anyone on mobile? it’s scuffed

[marble hemlock]

[bleak sky]

Wow head on mobile is always fucky

[ebon notch]

We do together? I'm free now

[subtle kiln]

does anything on wowhead work on mobile?

[fleet anchor]

To me, this is the calm part. When a build has the data and I have to start coding all the SimC updates, that's when things start getting real. 😛

[marble hemlock]

when koji has to implement deathmark into simc

[oak sky]

Im still in sd bro im hanging with friends

[ebon notch]

The dungeon?

[balmy condor]

Ah we’ll switch places then, cause I’m gonna be twiddling my thumbs living the good life till you have everything ready for me to break, I mean sim

[oak sky]

San diego

[kind talon]

san diego

[ebon notch]

Wait what

There are guilds in San Diego?

[oak sky]

Its not what you think

[kind talon]

valorant friends? @oak sky 😏

[fleet whale]

Cheat death may not be needed if you are good

[oak sky]

Nah

[ebon notch]

Cev told me I was doing the 10.0 sims

[fleet anchor]

It's not nice to compare San Diego to that dungeon

[fleet whale]

Can use that talent point for dps

[ebon notch]

I'll get right on it

[oak sky]

Put me in coach

[balmy condor]

True San Diego is much worse

[ebon notch]

Me and agreon got this

[oak sky]

Im in la jolla dw

[tidal gorge]

Standing in mechanics and surviving is dps

[ebon notch]

We're already simming 100k

[fleet anchor]

Whispyr is gonna be too busy with his prepatch talent tree + legendary APL

[balmy condor]

I don’t even trust you with a butter knife in a 50 yard range of an electrical socket

[oak sky]

Once i get home im doing wow shit for suresies

[ebon notch]

The AOE butter knife is a potent ability

[bleak sky]

Cheat death feels too comfy on prog to give up and it's a nice greedy talent for farm as well

[ebon notch]

Reminds me of CT

[lucid birch]

Hey

[bleak sky]

Howdy friend

[royal lantern]

You didnt mentioned forks

[fleet anchor]

I need my optimal prepatch talent tree double legendary covenant build plz

[balmy condor]

Get ready for “what if we make this one deathmark line into 7 to match the 9 shiv lines I made”

Electric boogaloo

[ebon notch]

One legendary per patch my guy

[marble hemlock]

why dont we have sims yet?

[ebon notch]

We're up to 4 by then

[balmy condor]

Koji’s lazy

[fleet anchor]

Hey the sooner I get into alpha the sooner we get sims

[lucid birch]

[royal lantern]

Lazy TC's

[subtle kiln]

guy is still sick

[ebon notch]

I'm already in sigma

[royal lantern]

Why do we even pay them???

[marble hemlock]

holy fuck i tab out for a second and get 4 quotes

[ebon notch]

Imagine being in alpha

[marble hemlock]

animals

[fleet anchor]

I can always imagine

[bleak sky]

Guy still hasn't released his outlaw sims from 9.2

[balmy condor]

WELCOME TO THE THUNDERDOOOOOOOOOOOME

[marble hemlock]

awww

hows she doing?

[balmy condor]

This is great content thank you mr scat

[subtle kiln]

stiches out tomorrow for her birthday.

[ebon notch]

Assa channel really has it all

[subtle kiln]

everything benign

[spice spire]

AND A BORTHDAY GOD BLESS

LFG

[bleak sky]

Good good news

[marble hemlock]

[ebon notch]

@spice spire come voice I need you to make some samples for an asmr soundboard

[spice spire]

Bro, you good?

[subtle kiln]

i can give a horny animal post if that’s more fitting

[lucid birch]

[ebon notch]

[spice spire]

BRO

[kind talon]

holy daps

[ebon notch]

What

[spice spire]

YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT AS AN EMOTE BAME

[kind talon]

u are on one today

im here 4 it

[balmy condor]

[kind talon]

that name owns

[lucid birch]

What about

[spice spire]

IM DYING IRL

[lucid birch]

[spice spire]

MISTER DSNOW

I am deceased

[ebon notch]

These emotes are otherworldly

[lucid birch]

lol

[balmy condor]

I need to share the classics

[ebon notch]

[balmy condor]

[subtle kiln]

[sharp falcon]

Someone talk to me about the BFA azerite garrote effect

[ebon notch]

TELL HIM

MAYBE ITLL EXIST

[balmy condor]

Shrouded suffocation gave extra cp and added flat damage to garrote and it was cracked out of its mind

[subtle kiln]

wtb SS