assassination

[drifting cloud]

ok Im not smart enough for this but lets say super impractical, if I apply rupture 0.1s before euphoria, or during it, the one during euphoria will do more dmg right? 😛

[limber lion]

If that is outside of the Vendetta window, then there is no difference

because the rupture updates dynamically

the second you get euphoria

but if you reapply rupture during Vendetta and while you have Euphoria

[drifting cloud]

oh so in BFA that was only a thing because of exsang on top of it?

[limber lion]

then you would have a bigger Rupture after the reapplication

[limber lion]

Yes, Exsang was the only thing snapshotting haste for us

All bleeds work dynamically

Exsang is the thing that enables the snapshot, same the 4p tierset with Vendetta.

[drifting cloud]

for some reason I thought haste doesnt work dynamically, not sure why

[limber lion]

Definitely does and we even have partial ticks in the game

so there are no extra ticks to be had or hard/soft caps in place

[drifting cloud]

you just dont wanna tell us the haste cap for an extra tick ...

[limber lion]

Because there isn't one

[drifting cloud]

the secret scriptures

[limber lion]

because of partial ticks :')

if Rupture runs out before it has ticked, it will do a partial tick at removal depending on how much much of the tick was remaining

[craggy oak]

On that note, you might be able to offer some insight here @limber lion. Would haste break points returning be something we would want, would it be good or bad for the game?

[limber lion]

No, we do not want that. The game mechanics working dynamically is much better for the game.

It would just promote degenerate gameplay around gearing and make lives miserable trying to hit a certain breakpoint and gearing around a specific number

Get a 20 ilvl upgrade on your ring but you can't use it because it would drop your haste levels below the breakpoint

Not great

[craggy oak]

Ye thats a fair point.

[limber lion]

Also I'm personally a fan of consistent growth instead of a sudden spurt in dps because of hitting a breakpoint.

[craggy oak]

I dont really care for the minor upgrades we usually see, outside of getting your double leggo earlier in the tier. And when you get 4p ,they are usually too small to notice until you have a few upgrades

I prefer getting an item and seeingg my char stonk because of it, much like gavel, or iqd or some specs.

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion hi, huge fan

[limber lion]

woah it's oxi :O my intel told me you have a massive hog, can you confirm?

[gusty mirage]

It’s moderately sized, still can’t catch up to you on heroic shenanigans

[thorn fjord]

Game is annoying.. I'm blasting in heroic and in Mythic im a limp peepee

[limber lion]

is that the game's fault though

[gusty mirage]

yes

[thorn fjord]

YES.. its obviously not my fault

no way i could actually be bad

[hollow river]

Indeed it is

[limber lion]

fak

[gusty mirage]

you ever refresh 4pc juiced garrote with a regular one and want to die?

which one of yall mfers keeping me from an orange h jailer parse

[thorn fjord]

Or accidently garrote your 2nd prio target with less than 6 seconds left of vend on MT and miss your chance to reaapply garrote

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

just about to smack em

i'll drop it for you

[gusty mirage]

whoop his ass for me

I got MC'd on my 93 😦

[thorn fjord]

wow no guild flask

they must hate you guys

[limber lion]

it's a heroic kek

[gusty mirage]

this is why they call me budget cev

22 rank

sheesh

[thorn fjord]

[snow holly]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[bleak sky]

I'll hop in and turn your purple into a blue

[gusty mirage]

unlucky, you play sub now loser

go enjoy your "funnel"

nerd

[bleak sky]

Oh no somehow I feel like my internet is gonna go out at raid time

But only to blizzard servers

Unlucky

[gusty mirage]

play sin on andy

trust me

[bleak sky]

Can't

[gusty mirage]

wdym you can't

[limber lion]

@gusty mirage

[bleak sky]

I'll have routing issues tonight

[limber lion]

not bad

[gusty mirage]

they pulled you off the bench

you can do whatever you want

[gusty mirage]

just built diffy

wtf

[limber lion]

nah

I was super duper externalized

[bleak sky]

Yeah but damn I gotta take my grandma to jiujitsu classes

[limber lion]

for some reason priests just went ham on me

[gusty mirage]

bruh

they refused to PI me on jailer

they PI'd a marks hunter to beat me by like 800 dps

unlucky

[limber lion]

lmaoooooo

[gusty mirage]

I also learned that my 99 on xymox was tainted

I got 2 PI's

[limber lion]

rip

[gusty mirage]

didn't even realize it

[limber lion]

I had the same issue earlier on this patch

so I got an external weak aura to tell me when I get PI'd

[tribal mauve]

Hey guys What do you think is better for lod prog ? Venth or necro

[limber lion]

doesn't show faeries though for some reason

[limber lion]

Necro all the way

[gusty mirage]

faeries is weird tho

[tribal mauve]

Yea i think i’ll go zold

[limber lion]

Yeah I just sent Vendetta on CD honestly when I noticed that I was getting faeries

not sure if I was getting full faeries or just random applications here and there

idk

[brazen zodiac]

i was asleep sup

[limber lion]

I kinda want to look into faerie logic and find a way to take full advantage of it

but then again

I will never, ever get faeries in our main raid

[gusty mirage]

I dislike cdr for one CD as sin

[limber lion]

so does it really matter, why would I bother xd

[gusty mirage]

if it desyncs my shit

I go all stupid

[limber lion]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOO

I had 2 priests using PI and faeries on me at the same time

well that's unfortunate

[gusty mirage]

lmfao

[limber lion]

please

fucking remove externals

pleeeeeeeeeeease

so aids

profile is forever tainted by fucking

14 fucking externals

=??????????

[gusty mirage]

at least you didn't pay for them like half of the leaderboard

[limber lion]

yeh, this is a boost run

didn't get anything for the first like 2 bosses

but after Halondrus they started popping up like crazy

like bruh

stop it

[gusty mirage]

hunter

is such a dumb class

[limber lion]

ya

this is honestly such a beautiful spread

I hope this remains in 10.0 as well

could throw melee out the window though

but other than that looks pretty good

[gusty mirage]

unlucky for me

also the phasing for jailer

where garrote runs out

[brazen zodiac]

lul

[gusty mirage]

but the cd doesn't refresh during the stun

is toxic as fuck

coming out of that p3 phase into 3s remaining on my garrote CD still

is bad design

and they need to fix it

[limber lion]

Ya, I just reapply Rup/Gar 1-2s before it phases

buuuut it's fine

cooldown on garryboi ain't that bad

but it's definitely a weird design choice

very dumb

[gusty mirage]

almost as dumb as when lod would clear EVERYTHING

having to reapply bonespike after every amongus phase was cringe

[limber lion]

LMAO yeah

it's not like they don't have the tech when Magrave in Plaguefall doesn't reset debuffs

[gusty mirage]

envenom doing less damage than sbs casts

[vast loom]

whats the string to make a piece of gear 272 ilvl?

[gusty mirage]

,ilevel=272

[vast loom]

ah i did ilvl

lol

[limber lion]

okay I'm gonna try out Niya on the next run

doing b2b runs

[gusty mirage]

I was thinking of doing some fae shenanigans

[limber lion]

oh I haven't even unlocked everything on her

lmao

oops

[gusty mirage]

also I'm fully a nadjia enjoyer now

keep theo for sub M+

no more swapping conduits

we're chilling now

[bleak sky]

not a draven m+ enjoyer

[subtle tundra]

stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop stop

[gusty mirage]

if you say draven one more time I'm muting you

[bleak sky]

you'll come around

both of you

[limber lion]

Draven is a mission table character

nothing more

[gusty mirage]

he used to fly you around to throw poop on things in korthia

just accept his fate

[limber lion]

Night Fae sims 1k less for me

LUL

this is not a good idea

uhm

niya

bursts

so fucking much

[subtle tundra]

whjat does that mean

🤨

[limber lion]

big damn

[subtle tundra]

you wanna burst my nuts!

ahhhhhhhhh

[lilac sparrow]

are there someone who Nadjia sims better than Theodar? I got 1% better with Theodar but many guys use Nadjia in WCL

[limber lion]

No

Theotar sims the best for everyone

basically

[lilac sparrow]

almost every high ranked sin for Halondrus use Nadjia

Because of heavy movement sucks shade 🙂

maybe

[turbid harbor]

If only umbrella man followed you around

[potent dagger]

There is a 100ish dps simming difference for me between Theo and Nadija

[zinc frost]

He has legs, he just refuses to use them

[glass tulip]

Theo relies heavily on high shade uptime, so having to move a lot is why people run nadjia instead.

[limber lion]

yes

[potent dagger]

i can't quite value the loss when exiting an umbrella proc

[gusty mirage]

umbrella men*

[lilac sparrow]

I want consistency

[limber lion]

then play Nadja 3p

[turbid harbor]

I guess you don’t even need 2 steps after the nerfs

[potent dagger]

Both are inconsistent , like having a Thrillseeker proc on an imune phase XD

[turbid harbor]

Sin probably slaps now

[potent dagger]

But yeah nadija is way more inconsistent on movement

@limber lion how much of a dps loss is to have like 80% uptime on umbrella procs ?

i got the feeling that going nadija tends to favor gearing toward crit mast

[gusty mirage]

p. sure the umbrella buff is like 600 dps

[potent dagger]

ok

[gusty mirage]

assuming 100% uptime

[potent dagger]

so it's like 120ish dps loss just by going down to 80%

[gusty mirage]

ye which makes it a toss up between the 2

[zinc frost]

I’m listening..

[gusty mirage]

it's tubbins and gubbins

standing on top of one another

[zinc frost]

You’re welcome to follow me around with an umbrella

[gusty mirage]

omw

[timid cloud]

Any day, king.

[limber lion]

which fight you thinking about

[potent dagger]

in general

[limber lion]

Yeah because even 80% is quite a bit high

and not really possible

[potent dagger]

i meant to be 80% on the umbrella when it's up

[hollow escarp]

that's also very unlikely to happen

[potent dagger]

it's more like a 20-30ish % uptime

[limber lion]

Yes even then it's wayyy too high

Here's my Umbrella uptime graphs on mythic rygelon

Only had one good umbrella

every other umbrella was scuffed

[vestal wren]

[limber lion]

and very unlucky with the umbrella spawns as well on top of that

just don't play Theotar

[potent dagger]

yeah i know i'm calculating a baseline with insane uptime to see how much it's worth of a dps loss compared to the sims

[limber lion]

it slaps if you get an umbrella during cds

but other than that it's a bit meh

[hollow escarp]

yeah, theo opener is blessed

with umbrella

[potent dagger]

But it seems that a RNJesus proc like 5 dices for outlaw 😄

[rigid tartan]

You think nadijia does more on avg on Rygelon? Still progressing it and still on blue orb soak duty

[potent dagger]

But as i see it even with insane uptime of umbrella Nadija is still better

i'll just miss my Poison conduit 😢

[zinc frost]

Not much to miss from that

[potent dagger]

Feelcraft mate 😄

[limber lion]

yes

[glass tulip]

You mean when you hit Rygelon, umbrella instantly appears and then he moves so you get no shade?

[hollow escarp]

ohh well

[winter vapor]

are there fights on heroic where we would consider Theo over nadijia? Xymox, Pantheon, Rygelon, Anduin?

[limber lion]

no

none

anduin is the only one

where it's aight

[winter vapor]

so play around DD on Pantheon, just keep up bleeds on your other targets until the shit hits the fan p3?

[limber lion]

dd?

[winter vapor]

Dauntless Duelists (sp)

[limber lion]

no

you play 3p

3 potencies

[winter vapor]

right so, switching to 3P when theres more than one target in the encounter? Sorry im being rather thick here...

only I asked earlier in the week about DD ever being outsimmed, and the answer was not likely on Patchwerk fights

[limber lion]

Yes, on single target patchwork fights you would play Dauntless Duelist

Or not even patchwork fights

just single target

It's fine on Skolex, Dausegne, Jailer, Rygelon

but that's about it

And HallyD

[strange python]

Damn I thought third potency wasn't strong

[limber lion]

It's not

[winter vapor]

@limber lion thanks for your patience, as always

[strange python]

Even on vigilant, where you have adds but aren't really targeting the adds?

[limber lion]

But neither are the other alternatives

[limber lion]

Where you have dozens of adds constantly spawning and which you are constantly setting up bleeds on?

Yes

[strange python]

Is the extra poison damage better for FoK than the dauntless

I mean the adds die instantly

[limber lion]

Yes they do

but you still hit them

and don't focus on one single target

[hollow escarp]

2 ticks of poison > 0 ticks

[strange python]

Didn't realize dauntless was so minor I guess

[limber lion]

if you don't target swap, you play DD

if you do a lot of target swapping, you don't.

Also

you wouldn't even play Venthyr on Vigilant

right

[hollow escarp]

yeah, but swapping for first boss

[strange python]

Our guild doesn't let us change covs once raid night starts unless it's break

So Necro for vig means Necro for farm.

[limber lion]

Second*

[limber lion]

lol.

that's kinda cringe

[strange python]

Not a fan.

Regardless. They're at 120 pulls and still p1 jailer. So farm is a few weeks away

[hollow escarp]

I log off as venthyr

[limber lion]

Yes, but you would start the raid as necro

and then switch to Venthyr after killing the first boss

[hollow escarp]

last week I did pantheon as venthyr on hc

[limber lion]

It's a pretty rough boss

[limber lion]

that's fine

[hollow escarp]

too lazy to swap

[limber lion]

most are doing it as Venth

[strange python]

I'm not in on it, but already not excited for farm

Honestly this whole raid is unfun

[limber lion]

I disagree wholeheartedly

This has been a really good tier with a lot of really good fights

Actually a fun tier to play

[strange python]

Surprised to hear that. I've thought almost none of the fights have been fun

Halondrus the lone exception

[hollow escarp]

the raid is pretty fun, I just don't like how for some of the later bosses in the tier rogue is not that great

I hate Lihuvim just because I had to use cds on protoform

[strange python]

Sorta hit and miss. Rogue is super strong on halondrus, and very good on jailer and rygelon. But it's also booty on lords and anduin

[limber lion]

Rogue is really good on Rygelon and Jailer

And Halondrus

[strange python]

I just said that cev! :(

[limber lion]

gg

[hollow escarp]

I might miss rygelon prog

holiday

[strange python]

Holiday > sepulcher of the trash ones

[hollow escarp]

halondrus was fun, I always enjoyed bosses that took a lot of pulls to kill

[autumn gate]

yeah when it's a short time

but sylvanas man was a pain

[limber lion]

you're in for a treat with jailer then :)

[autumn gate]

when you are progressing P3, you have to wait 10 min before P3

that was so bad, and then one guy fucked up first arrow

and you cry

https://tenor.com/view/here-we-go-again-gta-gif-20483040

[hollow escarp]

tank fucking up arrow?

[autumn gate]

i'm not in a top world guild 😄 everything can happen

you can get surprise

😄

[ebon notch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5MPhPaCkohUZE6HFK2iBVs

finally got nadjia sim above 16k

[bleak sky]

600 more to go until you reach cev

[ebon notch]

im 16.2 with theo

and then almost 200 from ring?

im "theoretically" very close

but in the real world im not

[odd heath]

Giga

[bleak sky]

found you some secret hidden gains

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4gVi348ccv6YLVTFnwy1L9

[ebon notch]

wtf did you do

[bleak sky]

a little sinful gain

[odd heath]

Lol

[hollow escarp]

PI

[bleak sky]

little scheming

[odd heath]

That cheater

PI

[bleak sky]

a lil cheating lil trolling

[ebon notch]

i was wondering HAHA

[odd heath]

I was like what?

[ebon notch]

although i managed to gain 1-1.1k dps from it

[bleak sky]

don't tell him that

tf

[odd heath]

New technology?

Lol

[bleak sky]

hidden PI tech

[ebon notch]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iAgx7Qvd6WREnEzpGPgrF9

this was a sim i did a little while ago

[bleak sky]

unethical (cops called) ((ceverion banned me from RH))

[ebon notch]

1k gain

[ebon notch]

[ebon notch]

nvm i had a sub conduit in so maybe not 1k gains

[odd heath]

Lol

Planned execution op

[hollow escarp]

I found a 3k dps gain

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jzUc8XmopvFn6EHBkQicZs

[bleak sky]

kojack for TC

right now

[ebon notch]

only 97.8% uptime?

smh

[hollow escarp]

can't be that unethical

[bleak sky]

hey you have to move sometimes ok?

[odd heath]

98% uptime on PI lok

Lol

[ebon notch]

gotta go take a shit mid bossfight

on god

[hollow escarp]

PI doesn't stack, right?

wait, that's a question for the warlock discord

[bleak sky]

stacking pis

unless

[kind talon]

No

New pi refreshes

Afaik

[hollow escarp]

they should add pandemic on PI, it feels awful without

[kind talon]

Or stacks duration

[hollow escarp]

[kind talon]

So true bro

[velvet bridge]

does anyone have a crimson tempest WA with pandemic glow for when vendetta is applied and when it is not?

[vestal wren]

stack it with faerie

[kind talon]

I think ceverion has a plater profile with it and afenar ui has it iirc but not sure

[velvet bridge]

!ui

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[hollow river]

I don’t think anyone made one for CT specifically for the 4 piece vendetta effect

Iirc Cev made some for garrote and rupture

[limber lion]

Yeah, I don't recommend it.

It's just unnecessary clutter for something that you don't really need to focus on

[hollow river]

Ye

[limber lion]

Maintaining Garrote/Rupture is a must, maintaining CT is not

So seeing CT glow up constantly is just annoying and unnecessary

[hollow river]

Just have to remember that CT pandemic is halved during vendetta

But like he said it’s not as do or die as gar/rup

[woven ruin]

They really need to make more classes use daggers or put more on the loot pool, at least for tradeable situations. Ive been getting 1 handers all exp, but daggers are a myth.

[ebon notch]

they should just make daggers have flex stats

agi/int

except for special daggers such as rygelon

or just disable the passive idk

[granite widget]

same could be said for bows

[ebon notch]

uh

are there int/strength bows?

[graceful locust]

Quick question, relatively new to assassination rogue, when you get rupture, slice n dice and garrot all procced and are spamming mutilate, what do you spend the dots on if everything is applied on the enemy?

[red plaza]

envenom

[woven ruin]

Enevemon or crimson temp

[granite widget]

no, only hunter use bows

[ebon notch]

so how is it the same as daggers

you cant increase the loot pool of bows cause only 1 class uses it

[bleak sky]

make ranged dh

give it a bow

[graceful locust]

Ahh ok ty, leveled up with Outlaw and switched over to assassination so just getting used to the rotations

[bleak sky]

ezclap

fixed

[limber lion]

With or without 4p?

[ebon notch]

not edgy enough

[graceful locust]

Without

[red plaza]

weapon tokens

[limber lion]

Then you'd Envenom

With 4p you'd maintain CT as well

[graceful locust]

im only lvl 50

[limber lion]

pogpog

[granite widget]

i wasnt responding to you, was saying agi daggers are like hunter bows in that only one class can use them

[graceful locust]

Wanted to create a pvp alt and I had fun in bfa playing outlaw rogue while leveling so thought id go assassin and shank people

[ebon notch]

yes but flexing the stats you could theoretically increase the number of dagger drops

unless you were simply agreeing to the post i was responding to

[granite widget]

I was not responding to you

[subtle tundra]

they really need to remove parry cba

parry on jailer is literally the whole room

[limber lion]

yeh it's pretty annoying

idk what it serves

[verbal radish]

But it makes perfect sense that he deflects our attacks skillfully with his ankles.

[ebon notch]

if you added spell parrying for 1 day

it would be removed

like it wouldnt even be a question

[harsh anchor]

Isn’t that just spell resistance

[ebon notch]

is that a thing in modern wow

[harsh anchor]

Idk. Caster class cringe

I only melee

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/giga-chad-gif-23143840

[subtle tundra]

i just dont want to play jailer anymore

cause of parry

[kindred heron]

Just face his butt man

[subtle tundra]

like, i have to be in front of boss for azeroth heals

[kindred heron]

Or does jailer’s ass parry too

Ohhh true

[subtle tundra]

im under his legs

and still parries

[glass tulip]

already on azeroth soaks

[subtle tundra]

wat

[limber lion]

wat

[subtle tundra]

we're at p3

[glass tulip]

idk

[limber lion]

they happen in every phase lol

[glass tulip]

oh, I havent watched jailer since the race

🤷

and I thought you guys just started jailer like a couple days ago

so assumed giga speedy prog to p3

[kindred heron]

Day 2 of waiting for Cev’s secret lords tech

[subtle tundra]

its not that easy brotherman

its a very hard boss

[glass tulip]

oh I am fully aware of how many mechanics and heavily position based it is

we are starting anduin tomorrow, already buckled up for 250+

[ebon notch]

wdym just hit boss

[gusty mirage]

he parries with his cack

[bleak sky]

[subtle tundra]

no cap that ass can fart

[vestal wren]

what was your best pull so far

[subtle tundra]

22%

[vestal wren]

thats quite low already, nice

[subtle tundra]

p3 is getting there

[oak sky]

12% more

[subtle tundra]

after that every pull can be a kill!

[oak sky]

I feel like anduin gets nerfed this week

Which means i could miss the kill

We arent even close but big enough nerfs and we might zip through

[fair vector]

How much of the ilvl 262 gear can you wear? Is it just one total over all slots or can you wear a ring/neck and one leather slot?

[drifting cloud]

only one

[grizzled trail]

hold vendetta for first swamp on lords?

swarm**

[drifting cloud]

yes

[grizzled trail]

ty

[violet jackal]

Technically you can be full decked out in 262 gear since it drops at end of dungeon

[drifting cloud]

they cleaned up hof? @limber lion Colour 91

you werent top100 yesterday right?

[hollow river]

Maybe they removed the bug abusers O:

[drifting cloud]

nah, sales if anything because prolly 50% of kills are bug abusers

[oak sky]

Hof is always everyone that gets it in the last week anyway

[drifting cloud]

well yeah but its not full anymore now agreon

so it might not fill up today

its 1am eu, so like 4 NA guilds would have to kill

[oak sky]

Damn it would be a big hof then

Do eu guilds like get an extra day or smth

Seems like it could get weird

[drifting cloud]

extra week

atlest im pretty sure as soon as NA reset is (16h?) everyone gets another week

[oak sky]

Yeah

Theres a couple guilds that were close

[drifting cloud]

oh well I guess chinese finish their raids before that aswell

[oak sky]

what if like

eu fills hof

on the last day of their reset

but NA is in the next reset alr

[drifting cloud]

it just extends im pretty sure

but maybe if some EU raid afternoon

• china + na it might fill in less than 16h, its only 4 spots after all

[oak sky]

hmm

does guy's guild raid today

they had so many close pulls while i was watching

big feels bad if they cant make it

[oak sky]

yeah they like calling me that too

[halcyon zealot]

they do

[sweet dawn]

Question, why do we get to "max cp-1" for finishers and not just max?

Or am I reading it wrong and it's get to max or -1

[trim cairn]

Cuz you don't wanna overflow CP

too much, at least

Imagine if you have 4 cp you muti and it crits with both hits

you get +1cp and 3 cps are wasted

[oak sky]

yes, max or -1

[spice spire]

Seal fate is a real thing we have to deal with. Even shivving and +2ing at 4 without DS feels bad

So the tl;dr is Mut overcaps, and seal fate is a thing

[sweet dawn]

Ah oke

ty 🙂

Just wanted to know if me getting to max was a bad thing

[spice spire]

No, but if you happen to land on 4, it’s fine to just send the finisher

Max is always ideal, but overcapping is worse!

[sweet dawn]

I build to 4/(with DS 5) with muti, garrote and shiv then do a finisher

If I get to max though I will finisher before doing another builder

obv

[oak sky]

yeah, the whole idea is to not intentionally overcap

[spice spire]

^

[oak sky]

so you never want to mutilate at 4 just to get to 5cp

because that always wastes 1

[viscid spear]

@spice spire glomps

[hybrid vale]

dats a slippery slope

i think dat you shiv even at 5 combo points if it comes off cd at that moment

[spice spire]

You do

I said it feels bad not “don’t do it”

[brazen zodiac]

uwu

[hybrid vale]

ya but this type of thinking kills young children

i forgive u

im pumped for the return of shrouded suffocation, i feel it in my bones that it will be in the game

10.0

it could be an extension of subterfuge even like a side branch or whatever, garrote grants 1 addiitonal combo point when used from stealth, 2 pts for 2 additional cp's

[gusty mirage]

why you hiding your logs bro

[glass tulip]

bc all of our logs got privated anyway

too many buyers complaining

[obtuse robin]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/conquest-and-valor-caps-removed-on-the-next-weekly-reset-327011

[echo geyser]

So today/tomorrow?

[ebon notch]

wednesday ram

reset

wtf officers and gms are actually bullying assa rogues

did you see my officers joined earlier just to question my lifestyle choices

[glass tulip]

its ok, he actually isnt a heathen at least

understands that assa is king

[echo geyser]

no more valor cap

Finally time to upgrade all the sin gear

[ebon notch]

you already have a good sin set

what more do you have to change

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

???

[echo geyser]

My bank full of goodies

Socket items

[ebon notch]

but surely you simmed them right

to see if they were good

[echo geyser]

No theyre 262

[ebon notch]

you can still sim them

lmao

just change ilvl

[echo geyser]

Yeah but what does it change if i wont spend the valor on them

[ebon notch]

wait what

[echo geyser]

[ebon notch]

you're confusing me ram

[echo geyser]

Go to bed

[ebon notch]

pls

[balmy condor]

EU sleepers in chat

[ebon notch]

fk u

dont you have some balls to polish

[balmy condor]

is that a euphemism

[ebon notch]

it was multi layered yes

[viscid spear]

Naw, it's an EUphemism.

[balmy condor]

ban yourself from irl

[viscid spear]

[ebon notch]

wait ur a chick right

[drifting cloud]

theres no girls on the internet

[zinc frost]

None

[oak sky]

definitely not bro

[viscid spear]

Where's this coming from?

[ebon notch]

shitposting

[viscid spear]

cheep cheep

[balmy condor]

Ashkitten a guy, and my kitten

normalize homie discord kittens

[viscid spear]

Except when I make terrible puns

[balmy condor]

yeah that's when you sleep outside

[viscid spear]

I'm an inside kitten

As in inside your house

[balmy condor]

[viscid spear]

No tears, only nightmares

[gusty mirage]

you’re still a pumper to me

[glass tulip]

its okay im just a pub stomper

no mythic parsing but 99.9 normal and 99.7 heroic

400 kills so far

[viscid spear]

Hey we killed HAndy and I was there

Got helm

[glass tulip]

HUGE

[viscid spear]

5-set

[idle pagoda]

managed to get the cache trinket in raid last night, what's the rules regarding assassination on its use?

[glass tulip]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[gusty mirage]

400? jesus fuck

[ebon notch]

boosting

its op

i didnt even boost a huge amount in SoD

[glass tulip]

I ended sod with 394, but I only started boosting it in December

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[mortal pike]

I dont wanna go sub for mythic andy

[balmy condor]

Just get benched and live the good life like me

[mortal pike]

Ive been benched but they're bringing me in now

[balmy condor]

Tell them they’re dumbasses

Idk

[mortal pike]

bring the player not the class?

[balmy condor]

Rather take a second blood dk than a fucking rogue

[mortal pike]

but but I can stun the adds

[violet hemlock]

Im tanking when our main tank is gone cause Im most replacable

les go

my monk alt might have more prog than my rogue

[split grail]

So m+...Necro Marileth best?

[oak sky]

or venth theotar

[split grail]

Which is easier? I hate m+ so whatever is easier is for me

[balmy condor]

the one you think is more fun

[vast loom]

honestly if you are looking for easy low keys going sub venthyr isnt too bad, you can just stay venth 99% of the time and just storm bp for like 30 min and get some free keys

[split grail]

I don't know sub, I've been playing rogue since '06 and have never played sub. For years sub was just the pvp spec so I never bothered to learn it. I was gonna learn it a few week ago but then sin started pulling ahead again

[vast loom]

sub isnt too bad tbh, ive only been on rogue for like a month or so, sin felt pretty simple until i got 4p but after 4p sin is very engaging, sub is just very straight forward in keys compared to sin, sin requires a lot of micro with multi dotting and shit

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jqoVrh593YwbuDYhhpFS2J we hath made it to the 15k sims now i just gotta actaully do it in a fight 🙂

[hollow river]

we're actually trying to come up with something for consistency so this doesn't happen

[thin trout]

gz 🙂

[potent dagger]

DUe to their respective strengh is it worth to go double use trinkets ? i've always tended to avoid it , but since the nerf of the Phial

[zinc frost]

Better to sim what you got but phial still really good. Double on use I use for anduin, guardian etc with cache/sigil

[limber lion]

Just sim it and do what the sim tells you to do

[potent dagger]

Ok 😉

[lilac sparrow]

Any new usage for cache? Herodamage says cache is bis for sin ST

[zinc frost]

Axe

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[pastel hatch]

Hey! Ive been thinking to pick up my rogue again for M+. But im not the biggest fan of sub. Is sin much behind sub in dungeons?

[hollow escarp]

it is quite behind on aoe and some utility

but better on single target

there are some niche scenarios where garrote silence is very good

[ebon notch]

Sigil is better

Cache was over simming

[limber lion]

It was updated 2 weeks ago, when Cache was still oversimming by alot

Usually I advice people to either use HeroDamage or nothing at all, but Bloodmallet has good updated charts so you can take a look there

[vestal wren]

i can ask aethys to re-run trinkets

[snow holly]

Does the bleed from the axe in the cache get affected by the tier bonus when vendetta is active?

[vast loom]

no

[glass tulip]

What do you mean by this?

Who is we

What is being consistencized

What is happening

[thorn fjord]

Good luck on your boxes today friends 🙂

[pastel hatch]

Sadge, I miss 8.3 assa with expedient 😦

[thorn fjord]

7.3>8.3

not even close

[hollow escarp]

8.0 > everything else for M+

[pastel hatch]

Didn't play remotely competitive pre 8.1 so wouldn't know

[thorn fjord]

I miss legion 😦

[hollow river]

You said something about you and your gm’s prices being different because y’all ran a discount or something

[gusty mirage]

[glass tulip]

Ah, trying to standardize prices

[hollow river]

We’re trying to come up with a way to keep everyone up to date

Yes

[glass tulip]

Yeah without communities to set the price floors things have been iffy

[hollow river]

Because some buyers haggle but we don’t want them to tell others they got it cheaper for example

[glass tulip]

Supply and demand baby, this is my bread and butter

[modest glen]

zoldyck for mythic pantheon? or we never use it

[hasty siren]

😦 thinkin about going sub….. cries

[prisma cypress]

why

[hasty siren]

Tired of getting spanked in m+ 😦

[kindred heron]

Duskwalkers for pantheon is best if you are comfortable with it - Zoldyck is being used on Lords but that’s it

[prisma cypress]

isn't your job to blow up the boss, not the trash?

if your goal is to do the most overall you might as well reroll

[gusty mirage]

Do I have some news for you

You’ll get spanked in m+ as sub too

[glass tulip]

Replaced by WW monk

No more sin PF tech

[hybrid vale]

Reminds me of tbc Classic where the other crafters get angry when you don’t charge obscene prices for rare enchants like the enchanting community agreed upon

I’m against that tho

Is it weird that my top dmg is often attack on single target

[fair vector]

Im confused. So I just got my first set slot from the vault. Its 7/12 upgrade. Where do I go to upgrade it further? I went to the creation thing but it doesnt show?

[glass tulip]

there are upgrade vendors in your covenant sanctum or on the left side of oribos next to the pvp vendor

depends on what type of item it is but can be upgraded with Honor (pvp) or valor (m+)

[fair vector]

Just found it. ty. Assumed it was creation.

[violet jackal]

@marble hemlock can you explain to me your 3:07 lihuvim kill to me, did you kill schematic then just cleave everything on boss through double DR and kept all acquisitions trapped?

[subtle tundra]

you just have omega dps

and kill boss fast

its not something complicated lol

[marble hemlock]

what kill

heroic?

[gusty mirage]

@marble hemlock I need your advice

socket for cos ring or +77 avoidance to my tier pants

[marble hemlock]

i can tell you with 100% certainty, that our plan for that boss at the time was "Pull boss and kill it"

we didnt do anything special

at least not as far as i remember

[violet jackal]

yea heroic

[kindred heron]

You can use the replay feature of WCL to see what he did

[violet jackal]

It's the shortest kill time by a mile

[marble hemlock]

[kindred heron]

Also based on his casts he just multidotted then continued to blast boss

[marble hemlock]

yeah we dont really do parse strategies or anything

idk if they buffed the boss at some point

like its HP or smth

but we just killed 1 add and then blasted boss

and it died before second synthesis

[drifting cloud]

its not 😛

theres alot of under 3min kills

[marble hemlock]

ye

[violet jackal]

whoops, I onnly look at necrolord assassination

[gusty mirage]

I took the avoidance

thanks for the help seli

[marble hemlock]

sorry oxi

[drifting cloud]

and most of them are 1month old when guilds still did hc as a guild run

[gusty mirage]

[marble hemlock]

i was checking wclogs

[gusty mirage]

its okay

[marble hemlock]

avoidance ofc

[gusty mirage]

its not your fault the vault fucked me

[marble hemlock]

you made the right call

wdym

77avoidance pants sounds amazing

[gusty mirage]

0 dps for 6 slots unlocked

doesn't sound amazing

when I'm rocking a 272 valor dagger and a 259 eon still

[marble hemlock]

oh well

that sounds like bad RNG

[drifting cloud]

how much is a dagger in oh even

I havent simmed in 2months feels like

[gusty mirage]

dog I'm trying to get a mh dagger

[marble hemlock]

yeah im fairly sure theres lots of much faster kills. we just had good DPS at that point and so the boss died before 2nd schematic

but we didnt do anything special, my guild never does

[drifting cloud]

sorry I wasnt trying to dunk on you

[gusty mirage]

don't worry

blizzard already did that

[drifting cloud]

I guess getting that skolex dagger week 2 was nice (this is a dunk)

[gusty mirage]

I've been keeping track of my vault rewards

since the start of the season

I've gotten 14 belts

[marble hemlock]

just do it like dk and i did

[drifting cloud]

not the belt daddy

[marble hemlock]

get rygelon dagger on firstkill

[thorn lynx]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[drifting cloud]

I got lords gloves im not getting dagger

[gusty mirage]

yeah I'll just wait until the end of June to get my rygelon dagger

ez

[marble hemlock]

yeah

sounds good

[gusty mirage]

and no more reclears

so its 272 dagger unless I RNG my way into a 278 from vault

very cool

[marble hemlock]

i have at least one more for you

[gusty mirage]

oh well

at least valor is uncapped

so now I can have my pick of 272 daggers

[drifting cloud]

[tidal gorge]

I feel you Oxi, I'm still using 2 EON and stuck as sub until I get better 😦

[marble hemlock]

idk its just like

this tier isnt really a dps-tight tier

weirdly enough

rygelon still qualifies, i suppose

but the dps checks on smth like halondrus, anduin, lords etc. is just not a thing

[glass tulip]

vault just fucking me

no helm, dagger, wrists

trinket

about to go catalyze for tmog lol

[gusty mirage]

well yeah

they gut all the dps checks pretty early

lol

and then went through a pissed on the ashes (halondrus)

[hybrid vale]

Does that mean healers don’t really need to do dam these days

Healer dam should be important 🫥

[bleak sky]

there are no checks

damage doesn't matter

stay alive = kill boss

[marble hemlock]

Unless your DPS are complete idiots, you have enough DPS to kill whatever boss you reach by the time you get there

[hybrid vale]

Why aren’t there more outlaws in mythic

If dps doesn’t matter

Genuine question.

[vestal wren]

because perception plays a role

[marble hemlock]

Because the amount of lead-paint fumes you need to inhale to actually enjoy playing Outlaw are still only reached in select parts of the US

[vestal wren]

people tent to go the path of least resistance and this means taking classes/specs they assume give them the highest chances to kill a content

[hybrid vale]

Ok

[vestal wren]

also rogue is a 3 spec class, this means specs compete between each other

[hybrid vale]

I see

[marble hemlock]

Just because DPS doesnt matter, doesnt mean that people will actively play the worst spec of choice for their class

[vestal wren]

so, if you play a non standard spec like outlaw that is even tuned weaker you are expected to peform ahead of others

[hybrid vale]

I think ppl do that, maybe ppl don’t want them too tho

I mean regardless, there aren’t any fights where a rogue spec is topping meters in tbe current tier, so I feel like now more than ever swapping to the 3k less dps spec wouldn’t be bad

Given what you guys are saying

[bleak sky]

yeah let me go ahead and do 3k less damage

very pog

[marble hemlock]

Whether you lose 3k dps on a destro/demolock or a rogue, its still 3k dps less for your raid

[hybrid vale]

Well maybe when content goes on farm

[vestal wren]

guilds don't want to kill bosses with "we should be able to kill it with this amount of dps"

but rather take a higher amount to have more room of error

[marble hemlock]

You missed the first part of what I wrote there

[vestal wren]

so it makes total sense to play what is tuned better

[marble hemlock]

Choosing to play Outlaw in progress would constitute being a complete idiot.

[vestal wren]

the entire argument of "damage does not matter" just means that people should focus on playing mechanics

because a dead dps does no damage and makes killing the boss harder

[hybrid vale]

Progress as in bosses you’ve never killed or only killed once or twice

[vestal wren]

than a dps that loses 300 dps because he plays mechanics

[hybrid vale]

Yeah I see

Doesn’t change much then

Still do as much dmg as u can

[bleak sky]

well yeah lol

[marble hemlock]

I mean, is your goal to rekill a boss as fast as possible to get back to actual progress, or do you prefer wiping to a fight because suddenly that add you were pushing 2mil damage on as assa doesnt die cause you only do 750k as outlaw?

[bleak sky]

as opposed to what? not doing as much damage as you can while focusing on mechanics?

that's raiding

[marble hemlock]

No, the entire argument rests on the notion that people play whats "best" in most cases anyway, and having a DPS die at 20% boss HP typically wont suddenly make you not meet the enrage timer anymore

Not getting the bis item out of vault wont be the reason you wipe to a boss

[hybrid vale]

Healers can do more or less dmg depending on talent choices or gear choices which may come at cost if output or their survivabilitly but on some dps checks, historically making that trade is worth. But if no dps check you don’t need to do that

[crimson smelt]

I find fault with your analagy. Lead toxicity would slow you down which is more akin to sin playstyle, not OL. Speed works better for OL 😄

[bleak sky]

healers will do dps on farm

who cares

just go fast to get it over with

[hybrid vale]

Ya pew pew

[vestal wren]

i don't agree with "most play the best possible"

[marble hemlock]

Lead poisoning causes brain damage, which is a fundamental requirement for playing Outlaw in Progress atm

[bleak sky]

most playing at a decent mythic level will play the best possible

[hybrid vale]

Rogue discord education

For me anyway

[vestal wren]

because else we would have seen less diverity in raid compositions, reality is people stay within their class but optimize to a certain degree

[crimson smelt]

Or I just like to have fun.

[bleak sky]

so.......playing what's best

[marble hemlock]

Whether or not you agree doesnt matter for the sake of the argument that most progress-oriented guilds will have certain expectations for their raiders to not purposefully int their raid

[vestal wren]

playing what is best would mean also re-rolling to non rogue if rogue is not best in a tier, yes

if you did not reroll, you logically don't play what is best

[marble hemlock]

Youre moving goalposts, the discussion is about inter-class spec choices

Please dont do the thing you always do by trying to chime in on a discussion about a specific topic and trying to make your argument fit by expanding the scope of the discussion

[crimson smelt]

I'm all for buffing OL and I thought your posts about OL needing buffs were nice and witty. But I can't agree with the lead poisoning requirement

[marble hemlock]

This isnt about rerolling vs not rerolling

[hybrid vale]

I had that argument here awhile ago, they don’t like it

[vestal wren]

huh

[marble hemlock]

Its about why no one plays Outlaw instead of Assa/Sub despite not "needing" to play it

If you were to play Outlaw, would you play the best talent-setup, or just whatever is most fun?

Its the same basic idea, why play whats best when you can just "have fun". But most people would still read up on whats "best" and pick that choice.

Because people raiding in progress-oriented guilds tend to want to perform to the best of their ability, and that includes playing the "right" spec

[vestal wren]

for most players performance is their metric for fun

[marble hemlock]

Yeah definitely. Especially when we're talking about guilds that actually wanna progress and are progressing on the fights we cited (Mythic Hal/Anduin/Lords/Rygelon)

[subtle tundra]

glizzy

[hybrid vale]

Do people care about their performance relative to their spec, their class or amongst all classes and specs

Interesting to know

[marble hemlock]

Class

[vestal wren]

people always stay within their bubble of the class

this is why seli was so outraged that i mentioned that his notion of "people do play whats best" was not entirely correct

because he assumed the baseline is that we stay within the bubble

[marble hemlock]

You have to keep in mind that Rogue is the only multi-dps-spec class where the spec-choice has very little impact on their overall performance. Fundamentally all Roguespecs do the same. Their damage profiles are largely the same, their damage output is largely the same in every scenario, so you end up with like a 10-20% difference (at most) between the 3 rogue specs.

That is not the case for basically any other DPS class in the game

[bleak sky]

fuu

why would the default be rerolling

instead of playing what's best within your own spec

[vestal wren]

it wouldn't be

[marble hemlock]

No, I was outraged because you started the same stupid "then why dont you reroll if you wanna play whats best" argument, as if thats in any way the same as pressing the "switch spec" button

[vestal wren]

i mean, just recently assassination was also still seen as inting

[marble hemlock]

This isnt a theoretical exercise. This is people actually playing the game, where swapping specs is as easy as pressing a button and having a 5 second casttime, where rerolling is a multi-week effort of grinding gear and spending dozens of hours to get to a similar itemlevel

[hybrid vale]

Is that why assa rogues always wanna sit out on Andy

Cause they don’t wanna be judged on that performance

[marble hemlock]

Idk, I did great as Assa on Anduin

And I had shit gear

[strange python]

I did only one key this week assuming I'd get no upgrades (only neck and helm would be an upgrade) so I could get a socket. Andddddd I got the neck

[hybrid vale]

I just always see ppl mentioning that in here

[bleak sky]

all rogues want to sit on anduin

they're all shit

[strange python]

Not as much about being judged or willfully sitting, it's more that rogue is just bad at anduin. If you have any other classes, it's usually better.

[bleak sky]

sub "funnel" is pathetic on anduin, no real cds, does dog damage

[marble hemlock]

Rogues are the only class that are hard-stuck on playing a single spec within their class as much as we are. For basically every other class, thats not really a thing

[strange python]

Also anduin isn't super fun for the types of things rogues like to do

[marble hemlock]

Our Warlocks and Mages played all 3 specs this tier. So did our Hunters.

[vestal wren]

it isn't, the default is to just play the best spec of a class and it also means that single dps spec classes get judged diffrently

[strange python]

I'm expected to play all three tbh. I'm always surprised to hear that people get away with one tricking

[marble hemlock]

Mages and Warlocks are often at the mercy of the balancing and tuning of blizz to decide what spec they play. Rogues often had the choice between at least 2

[vestal wren]

rogue has the problem of having multiple specs do similar things

[marble hemlock]

Warlcoks historically swapped specs based on whether they were required to pump st or cleave or aoe

[hybrid vale]

I thought rogues issue is that they don’t bring a lot to the raid

[strange python]

I was expected to have outlaw ready for slg, for example

[marble hemlock]

And anyone still hardcoping that sub does more dam on Anduin to the boss than Assa, is just dreaming

[hybrid vale]

Fuus wowhead guide says rogue weakness is its reliant on the playball of dps tuning

[strange python]

Rogue has a LOT of issues. We bring mediocre damage, no utility, are melee. As a result we're not in demand relative to any other class

[vestal wren]

they do

[strange python]

Warriors will always have a spot forever because of shout

We don't have that

The only reason to bring a rogue is damage

And if our damage isn't good, we sit

[tidal gorge]

Come on now, we bring trash skips. That's amazing. 🙄

[vestal wren]

rogue has a solid toolkit but if you look to replace a dps spec, rogue is a easy choice

[strange python]

Not in this raid

Every pack has true sight

Rogue and Hunter are the two most easily replaced classes because we have no unique buffs, but hunters are ranged.

[vestal wren]

we had rogue as mandatory class in legion the last time

and raid design changed after that

[hybrid vale]

Wait doesn’t hunter have a pet buff with one of the pet specs

[wild hill]

Hey rogues I need macro for assa that open to me vandeta and blood fury ]
and sepsis
can someone help me with this i dont understand with macros

[hybrid vale]

Maybe removed

[vestal wren]

also as mentioned, the rogue specs don't provide unique damage pattern or benefits

you can easy exchange any of the specs with the other one if tuning is more in the favour

[marble hemlock]

You bring rogue for singletarget damage. And it doesnt even do that better than other classes. Which rogue spec you bring for that specific damage pattern, is decided based on blizzards tuning. You never bring rogue for anything but singletarget

[hybrid vale]

Are more fights designed in a way that you need a mixture of melee and ranged dps in mythic 9.2

For mechanic soakin etc

[bleak sky]

what soaking

[hybrid vale]

I dunno I haven’t done my mythic research yet. I’ve only just completed heroic

[marble hemlock]

You're not like a Warlock who plays Destro on Anduin cause you can push omega-damage on the boss+monstrous soul at the same time, or play demo on halondrus becuase its pure ST and you can build massive tyrants there without issue or affli on pantheon because you can perma dot 4+ targets and top the meters on each of those fights because your specs are specificall tailored around those damage patterns

Rogue just hits the boss

[vestal wren]

subtlety had funnel damage to its advantage and short "burst" cycles in legion

but both is gone from the toolkit

[bleak sky]

rip affliction

[marble hemlock]

Sometimes Outlaw hits a bit harder than Assa, sometimes Sub hits harder than both, sometimes Assa hits harder. But never by more than 5-10%, typically

[vestal wren]

funnel is still there to a degree, but rather mediocre compared

[bleak sky]

they're not even decent anymore on pantheon

[marble hemlock]

Yeah well, the other 2 WL specs still blast on pantheon so its whatever

Affli was only good for like week 1 anyway

[bleak sky]

true truee

[marble hemlock]

But thats what matters the most

[vestal wren]

i mean, wl is just too strong atm

so compared to wl, you will find most specs/classes to be not great

[marble hemlock]

When people still dont have a lot of gear, being able to swap specs to fit a certain type of fight is of huge benefit

Just 1 week later with everyone having 3-4ilvl more, that might not be a necessity anymore, or even the best choice

But yeah regarding Anduin, dunno why people started this narrative that Assa sucks there, and that Sub is the play, just cause you can funnel for like all of 5 seconds before all the adds are dead to a boomie or destro anyway

[subtle tundra]

imo sub was better cause you can do dps

when you need

not like assa

whereas

[marble hemlock]

Dps on what?

[subtle tundra]

you can only do dmg on cds/no aoe/if you use cds inside on the big guy you dont get full value

and thats literally all the dmg on you need for prog

[marble hemlock]

Both suck inside Kingsmourne. Both suck on Reflections (Although Assa is better there), both do very good damage on remnant (with Assa doing more) and the only advantage is that sub can hold damage for the monstrous soul, but it comes at crazy high cost

[hollow river]

I mean all rogue specs suck there

[subtle tundra]

not dps increase

phase

[marble hemlock]

Cause if you hold dam for monstrous soul burst, you do negative dam on remnant

[subtle tundra]

the one where you go down

[marble hemlock]

Yeah

Sub sucks balls there

[subtle tundra]

it doesnt

[hollow river]

What

[bleak sky]

it kinda sucks

[kindred heron]

You probably wouldn’t want to macro vendetta and sepsis because they won’t perfectly align, and you’ll often be pressing them 30~ sec apart. To make a macro for blood fury and vendetta, make a new macro and just click and drag both the spells in! In the end it should look like /cast Vendetta /cast Blood Fury (Racial)

[hollow river]

It has to be better than assa there

[subtle tundra]

i literally progg'd as sub

[marble hemlock]

Idk, if I struggled with Kingsmourne, Rogue would literally be the last class I would send down there to try help fix it

[subtle tundra]

i mean

we're comparing rogue

specs

[bleak sky]

same

[subtle tundra]

not classes

[marble hemlock]

Youre comparing catpoop to dogpoop

[native belfry]

Just let us cry here that rogue sucks

[marble hemlock]

Yeah, Sub is slightly better in kingsmourne than Assa

But its still shit

[subtle tundra]

yea

but