or u have holy pal
#assassination
balmy condor
:ripbozo:
oak sky
Since our havoc is out
glass tulip
devoauraless raid
bleak sky
where halondrus kill
glass tulip
ripbozo
balmy condor
where halondrus kill
Ask the fucking int ranged players who lose the god damn bombs
glass tulip
no paladins
glass tulip
we cleared 5/11 with 3 rdps and no paladin
balmy condor
Second intermission “I don’t know where bomb is”
glass tulip
now we have rdps but still no pala
bleak sky
Second intermission “I don’t know where bomb is”
I blame warlocks
oak sky
Second intermission “I don’t know where bomb is”
Ur just like me fr
hollow river
Second intermission “I don’t know where bomb is”
my quarrel is getting called for back up and no one says the marker
hollow river
i did not do bombs
oak sky
And they gave us half the boss to ourselves
balmy condor
my quarrel is getting called for back up and no one says the marker
My quarrel is “need a backup on bomb in the back” and it’s in the fucking planet crackers already
hollow river
i only did back up a couple times
balmy condor
I’m on a bomb
balmy condor
And then my partner had to pick up a bomb
hollow river
i need to clip those
balmy condor
And then a healer picked up the bomb
oak sky
I feel bad for mfs that arent on a bomb tbh
hollow river
I feel bad for mfs that arent on a bomb tbh
i wanted to be on one
prenerf
actually boring af not doing bomb
oak sky
Post its easy but still engaging
hollow river
bro
balmy condor
oak sky
We havent fucked up the bomb theres just been random deaths every once in a while and our hpal just did the backup
oak sky
Ours has caused a wipe 0 times
balmy condor
everyone on bomb teams fucked up in my raid
Have you had the one where you wipe 15 seconds into the pull cause they just forgot to pick up the bomb at the start
oak sky
Lmao
hollow river
Have you had the one where you wipe 15 seconds into the pull cause they just for...
NODDERS
oak sky
No way
balmy condor
I was losing my shit
hollow river
WARLOCK COMES OVER COMMS 25 SECONDS INTO PULL
"IM PODDED"
no "need back up on ----" no nothing
i got it at like 29.5sec
bleak sky
Have you had the one where you wipe 15 seconds into the pull cause they just for...
that was legitimately me
hollow river
bro don't get me started
balmy condor
They got infinite space for earthbreaker
They already in position for dispel
What mechanics do they have
hollow river
shamans and warlocks are perpetual pods
hunters are just floor pov
because venthyr BM
fleet anchor
What mechanics do they have
They have to back up 1y for 1s every 30s or so
You just don't understand
balmy condor
Yeah I guess I don’t
fleet anchor
Because like
What if I'm in the middle of a cast during CDs
And didn't turn my camera or predict where the circles would be
And then it comes and like
I have to move?
That seems pretty unfair ngl
torn atlas
I'm not sure how you mythic raiders do it. I was ready to quit after 60 pulls on hc Rygelon
Stories from mythic Hal just sound like pure pain.
glass tulip
well to be fair heroic rygelon is pretty similar
anyone turns brain off and you get punished for it
fleet anchor
Mythic raiding is pain. That's a feature not a bug.
If you don't come away from Halondrus hating at least 4 people in your guild, you're doing something wrong
hollow river
i've been contemplating quitting raiding ngl
oak sky
i tell u who i dont hate, my bomb buddy
hollow river
just take my time and enjoy the other parts of the game
but actual fight design is really fun
torn atlas
Yeah I certainly would not be cut out for it haha. We finally got the kill last night and I still went to bed in a seething rage
hollow river
just gets old watching some of the same people die again and again
oak sky
i wasnt having that much fun on our reclears or lihuvim prog but halondrus has been great
brazen zodiac
tis just a game
brazen zodiac
im too high to agree but maybe later
or maybe if i could fkin raid this week 2 be reminded of how much it sucks 
maybe i go wipe on heroic rygelon pug for shits and giggles
hollow river
Oh you’re not raiding?
brazen zodiac
i cant find a guild who wants 2 melee
hollow river
Ahh :/
brazen zodiac
yeah but w epump and we have like 98s zz
brazen zodiac
yeah rip
i hit up 1 guild whos 6/11, they said they'll let me know tomorrow rip
but they were in need of rogue/sv specifically so lul
hollow river
Glgl
solid venture
F in the chat bois, rl wants me to play assa on anduin so I can pump remnant phases 
glass tulip
gotta dot the monstrous soul once so it looks like you are helping
even when its pre 40% 
solid venture
I should've just hard trolled halondrus but I pumped too hard on the kill 
bleak sky
yes sir
balmy condor
Brazilian king
bleak sky
brazen zodiac
Minalba pretty
so r u
solid venture
gusty mirage
open for me, closed for you
bleak sky
<:sadCat:866482668182962187>
dw it's just whispyr snow agreon and flower that I'm having an affair with
bleak sky
and kpb and daps and skip
gusty mirage
not flower, I aint trying to go to jail bro
bleak sky
flower is legal dw
solid venture
balmy condor
dw it's just whispyr snow agreon and flower that I'm having an affair with
Wait if you’re having an affair with @lucid birch then what does he have with me
gusty mirage
he's like 19
balmy condor
He’s 17
gusty mirage
kek
solid venture
gusty mirage
Wait if you’re having an affair with <@753767488524910613> then what does he hav...
this except with pps
solid venture
balmy condor
this except with pps
I just threw up and shit myself all the calculus just came back to me at once
vestal wren
this except with pps
is the x axis blood alcohol?
gusty mirage
is the x axis blood alcohol?
viral moat
!snapshot
prisma monolithBOT
Explanation of snapshotting
Bleeds update their tick rate dynamically, which means that if you get a haste proc (which increases our tick rate) from somewhere during the encounter (ie. Flagellation, Euphoria), the bleeds would automatically tick faster, but the second your haste goes back to normal, the tick rate goes back down as well.
Snapshotting refers to getting that haste proc, reapplying bleeds at the faster tick rate, but instead of the bleeds going back to a slower tick rate when your haste drops, they would continue ticking at a faster rate until they expire or are reapplied.
glass junco
hey yall
gusty mirage
hello
glass junco
im just picking up assa
and i was wondering if there is any reason to lvl up night fae
gusty mirage
night fae's the play in pvp for assassination, and it's the more "laid back" raiding option than venthyr
I would level it up anyway, just in case you dislike the venthyr playstyle
glass junco
not interested in pvp tbh
gusty mirage
but if you cba to do so (and I don't blame you), you can skip it altogether
gusty mirage
yeah venthyr > night fae
gusty mirage
no problem at all ❤️ mister@balmy condor put in a good explanation of the playstyle in the faq too if you wanna see how it ends up playing out
brazen zodiac
oxi so awwesome
viral moat
quick question on CT For single target, we cast it after MFD after flag and before vendetta window, then we refresh it during vendetta but only within the pandemic windows?
balmy condor
You maintain it all the time like a normal dot yeah
Envenom to maintain slice > rupture > ct > envenom as a filler
viral moat
gotcha, awesome ty 😄
oak sky
@bleak sky were u guys talking about flower he 18
rotund oak
I just threw up and shit myself all the calculus just came back to me at once
if u think calculus was bad try something like this for the rest of your life https://docs.scipy.org/doc/scipy/tutorial/fft.html 😄
oak sky
lmao my friend was talking about fourier series a bit ago
oak sky
My friend has to do it for bioe
rotund oak
Thats awesome
FFT's can be itneresting
but also quite a riddle some times
definitely not a life goal though
bleak sky
I had to do Fourier stuff
just don't be a lil bitch
bleak sky
<@235673244777185280> were u guys talking about flower he 18
LEGAL
bleak sky
i dont think math is in my future
you're biochem
oak sky
yeah
oak sky
im fine at math i dont hate math but
bleak sky
I enjoy it now a lot more than I did in college
oak sky
theres apoint
bleak sky
oak sky
where i dont like math anymore
bleak sky
cozy calc
oak sky
im actually done with math
oak sky
i only had to go through multi
but when i was still planning for engineering i did diff eq too
bleak sky
fun stuff
oak sky
meh
brazen zodiac
sounds hard
brazen zodiac
XD
bleak sky
on god hardest class in uni was anthropology
gusty mirage
on god hardest class in uni was anthropology
gusty mirage
I was doing polsci before swapping to econ
woof don't overwork yourself with that poly sci studying
rotund oak
I enjoy it now a lot more than I did in college
I think its a good tool to communicate but gets rly troublesome some times
gusty mirage
gusty mirage
all those poor poli sci pre law mfs
real chads went finance & econ before law school
bleak sky
too bad it didn't have enough math
timid cloud
Maybe you should learn to find some bitches instead.
bleak sky
gusty mirage
(yes that does mean I was a biz school douchebag)
timid cloud
gusty mirage
@oak sky don't react to my shit you liberal arts nerd
oak sky
? 
gusty mirage
timid cloud
You know why people get a MBA? So they can talk about how they got a MBA.
oak sky
gusty mirage
You know why people get a MBA? So they can talk about how they got a MBA.
because entry level jobs require "5 years of experience preferred"
oak sky
me like science bro
gusty mirage
timid cloud
TRUE
oak sky
at least in theory me like science
bleak sky
me like science bro
opens you up to other stuff
you think I enjoyed most of my classes in pol sci? hell no
gusty mirage
you think I enjoyed most of my classes in pol sci? hell no
no he meant real science
bleak sky
but gave me somewhat of a broader horizon
rotund oak
me like science bro
Noobs cant understand the glory 👌
gusty mirage
where vade mecum
it's next to the other latin phrases
in my ass
miss me with that dead language
marble hemlock
How can a language be dead? Are they ever alive?
gusty mirage
if latin was so good why did they transform it into french, italian, spanish, and portuguese?
oak sky
yeah true why did they make it into portuguese
rotund oak
How can a language be dead? Are they ever alive?
dead as never spoken for a large period of time
oak sky
L language
bleak sky
L language
rotund oak
essentially forgotten
gusty mirage
How can a language be dead? Are they ever alive?
they're as alive as my will to live
gusty mirage
How bold of you to assume people invite me to parties
oak sky
KEKWiguess
gusty mirage
Grats on the halondrus kill
ty 
marble hemlock
Maybe there's a correlation there
rotund oak
yes u are doing it right crit haste on ring
oak sky
yes
glass junco
perfect
gusty mirage
Maybe there's a correlation there
yeah I ask them if you'll be there and they tell me no, so I tell them to touch grass
glass junco
let the assa era begin
marble hemlock
And then they tell you it's an indoor party, the only grass they're touching is illegal?
rotund oak
marble hemlock
My point still stands
gusty mirage
then its less legal
marble hemlock
I need to get up but i don't want to
oak sky
i mean touch grass
gusty mirage
I need to get up but i don't want to
see I have that issue too, I've found not sleeping helps with the lack of motivation to get up
timid cloud
Oxi is on one tonight
oak sky
this morning i was supposed to go back to in person class from my quarantine but i just didnt get out of bed instead
gusty mirage
why u lawyering when u talk about a hypothetical party bro
because I borrowed money from the federal government to pay a school 120k to break me down and rebuild me very poorly
marble hemlock
Why do all these people know you so well oxi? Have you been whoring around?
gusty mirage
bleak sky
Why do all these people know you so well oxi? Have you been whoring around?
he gave us all his life info on the group chat
ssn included
gusty mirage
ssn included
enjoy the student loan debt loser
marble hemlock
Doubt you're part of a group chat that doesn't involve ritual sacrifice
gusty mirage
timid cloud
marble hemlock
Are you?
bleak sky
they can't collect debt from me
bleak sky
transfer all your active debt to someone overseas with no SSN
timid cloud
My mans is gonna pull a Thanos.
marble hemlock
I'd go with tulips. Easier on the hands and knees
bleak sky
I'd go with tulips. Easier on the hands and knees
oxi is good on his knees and with his hands
timid cloud
gusty mirage
oxi is good on his knees and with his hands
too slow
timid cloud
marble hemlock
You guys are very predictable
oak sky
would you eat my bait? 😳
timid cloud
Like a pack of starved wolves, the lot of you.
bleak sky
couldn't figure out wtf was in the mini icon 
marble hemlock
You're all too horny
You could all use some Jesus Christ in your lives to save you from yourself
oak sky
nah bro we're all just using horniness as a cover for other things we want in our lives that we don't have
oh wait real on main again fuck
marble hemlock
I guess it's no coincidence that green is the color of envy. And your parses.
viral moat
had another question on cleave and AOE with say 3-5 targets, as venth when i pop flag and enter the vendetta window, should i be refreshing my bleeds (garotte, rupture) on other targets during vendetta? or let them drop off and just focus on dpsing priority target that has vendetta until vendetta ends?
oak sky
you cant keep up multiple garrotes without subt
rupture you can but you have to prioritize the one on your main target
viral moat
should have mentioned with subt, sorry
oak sky
yeah you would only refresh garrotes if you have vanish basically then
and ruptures if your main target rupture won't fall off
marble hemlock
Just realized this wasn't off topic
viral moat
ok so basically for that vendetta window the priority would be rup/garotte single target, refresh CT during pandemic window, and only rupture other targets if rupture will drop off those targets?
oak sky
pretty much
viral moat
ok tyvm 😄
marble hemlock
It'd also depend on what your actual duty on that situation is. As casting a triple subterfuge garrote would mean multiple 1CP builders, it would hurt your CP generation and lead to fewer flagellation stacks, meaning youd sacrifice single-target damage on your vendetta target for slightly more cleave. That may or may not be worth it depending on the situation.
viral moat
yup, and you would run the risk of spending a big part of your vendetta window putting bleeds on non priority targets
marble hemlock
The entire idea about Venthyr is that is really only good on single-target. If you frequently find yourself in cleave situations like these, venthyr is not the play.
viral moat
makes sense, tyvm again
quick idol
Hi guys !
Kinda new to assass and I wonder if you guys have a good plater profil to share ?
With the one I have, it's realy hard to keep track on garotte and rapture on nameplate (they are lost in other debuffs i.e poisons, some conducts...)
tyvm
quick idol
Ok ! Ty for the fast answer. I'll try this one
frail fossil
<@316191055592554497> age check
Im 18
Also why the fuck am i being tagged in the assassination channel
tidal breach
hey guys im kind of new to rogue, wanted to ask with sigil, do i use it then apply bleeds, or does it not matter if i have bleeds already active or not and does sigil snapshot bleeds?
zinc frost
hey guys im kind of new to rogue, wanted to ask with sigil, do i use it then app...
Just send it with vendetta
tidal breach
Just send it with vendetta
cheers for the response
bleak sky
Also why the fuck am i being tagged in the assassination channel
important stuff dw
frail fossil
important stuff dw
grave garden
Do we swap to subterfuge when we have 4p?
grave garden
Ok, the info in the pins is a bit confusing
bleak sky
how so
bleak sky
if you scroll up on the FAQ you'll see the venthyr build in a pretty image
and necro build as well
normal mist
Question about arthas and sigil usage
When should sigils be popped?
Pull + 5 mins later or first intermission with bl?
zinc frost
If you don’t have cache and just have sigil to use, just use on pull
But cache omega good for anduin
normal mist
Its not a sigil boss
Yeah but I have no better options
Maybe using both PF trinkets (only options I have)
marble hemlock
Its not a sigil boss
id disagree
you can send sigil+pot at the start of 1st intermission, and at the end of 2nd
normal mist
On heroic?
marble hemlock
oh heroic
normal mist
Yeaaah
marble hemlock
was thinking mythic, people dont typically hyper-optimize for heroic anymore 😄
normal mist
Not mythic raiding :P
marble hemlock
yeah then any low-cd trinket might be better for overall dps i suppose
sand whale
haven't played sin in a while, do we use shiv on cd or save for ven/mfd/flag?
marble hemlock
with the venthyr st build, you just use it once between flags and then hold
sand whale
thanks seli! saves me digging through some logs lol
timid cloud
||Shiv bug fixed?||
bleak sky
!ban Cydone
timid cloud
fathom flax
hardy dagger
jesus christ that halondrus nerf hit hard from 300 to 567 kills in about one day
solid venture
Mess with crabo you get stabo
Kinda dumb how guilds who hadn't seen p2 intermission at all can now kill the boss in 5 pulls
wooden kiln
I might ask a dumb question, but is there a way to see on wlogs what theotar tea we had during the kill? Don't see it in buffs
glass tulip
You might be able to check the summary and see if your stats are different from when you have no tea but otherwise I don't think there is a way to see specific stats during an encounter
Same thing with fatal flaw, you can see the buff but not what stat it gave
brazen zodiac
!ban Cydone
!ban Minalba
brazen zodiac
I might ask a dumb question, but is there a way to see on wlogs what theotar tea...
the only dumb question is the one unasked
or one thats found in the faq/pins :D
nobody asked but i forgot to put the chicken soup i made last night away and im pretty sure its fucked and im sad about that
what a waste
polar sinew
Does exist a weakaura to track the DoT on target ? i have AfenarUI but i don't like the shape of it and when i try to move it myslef it f*ck everything on the UI ^^"
brazen zodiac
platers giga good, nameplates in general
polar sinew
i would like it as weak aura
brazen zodiac
like kui, plater, (i recommend plater). cev's got a super good profile that you can take and then customize it urself to ur likings
polar sinew
so i can have the same IU every fight
brazen zodiac
oh i see
brazen zodiac
one day yall dont realize he gonna snap and find where we live
glass tulip
he already knows
brazen zodiac
block ur doors
brazen zodiac
man so snapped he snapped his momma, the doctors, and the entire hospital foundation
legend has it hes still snapping people to this day
hollow river
so i can have the same IU every fight
Having a player profile would be the same UI every fight. I don’t get it
brazen zodiac
oh yo trickz u must know
polar sinew
Having a player profile would be the same UI every fight. I don’t get it
well the Afnar IU but more focus on DoT to track it easier on my target
brazen zodiac
i feel like you want nameplates ur not supposed to ever be looking at ur weakaura imo
polar sinew
like i said i dont like the shape of it, i would change it but it move everything for no reason after i lock it
brazen zodiac
yeah its kinda annoying to change it, i have to move CT and some other stuff very specifically with x y options or just click and drag, but if im necro, dragging doesnt work? idk its weird
limber lion
i feel like you want nameplates ur not supposed to ever be looking at ur weakaur...
Wut
limber lion
That's pretty much the only thing you need to look at
That's the point of weakauras
To compile the important information in one spot
brazen zodiac
idk i usually look at fight timers/mechanics vs my abilities weakaura
limber lion
Instead of scattered everywhere all over the screen
brazen zodiac
or just other information
hollow river
well the Afnar IU but more focus on DoT to track it easier on my target
Search for “theredrogue progress bar tracker” on wago. That’s what I use
limber lion
Yoy place them near your character so you see everything important in the middle of your screen
limber lion
well the Afnar IU but more focus on DoT to track it easier on my target
I use Afenars, they track bleeds very well.
lucid birch
Pinged at 2:14am smh
brazen zodiac
idk i have pretty impaired vision so i try to keep the screen very clean and specific, my afenars weakauras kinda closer to the bottom of the screen and i dont rly look at it often
hollow river
He’s got afenars but seems to want something more
lucid birch
@bleak sky seek help (love you)
brazen zodiac
unless i monkey out and forget what class im playing lul
polar sinew
i know its fk up what i'm showing but its like that i would like lol
limber lion
i know its fk up what i'm showing but its like that i would like lol
You can just move them
They are not static
polar sinew
i said that it move alone when i lock it the way i want
limber lion
Wut
polar sinew
like CT went on rptre etc
brazen zodiac
ahhhhh
limber lion
Go through each weakaura, look at the conditions/triggers tab
Remove the conditions that forbid moving/force moving
brazen zodiac
lul thx answered 2 questions in 1
polar sinew
ok i'll try
brazen zodiac
ok i'll try
ima fuck around with it too rhori cuz i kinda had the same issue ill let u know if i find the stuff to delete too
ct moving all over the place lmfao
limber lion
My Afenar is very customized and nothing is locked in place and I can move everything
CT/MFD always in the same place
Garrote CD inside the actual garrote weakaura and not on top like that
And with my improved bleed trackers for garrote/rupture
Envenom is a bar below EP
Let me show you what my Afenars looks like
brazen zodiac
pog
polar sinew
I think I will use the simplest but longest way to succeed: do everything myself xD
lets go learn some shit on How to Weakaura
limber lion
This is by default out of combat, where you don't have 2 icons on top of CP like you currently have with CT and everything is in the same line. Envenom is the bar below.
This is during combat with all bleeds, Envenom, EP, Flag, Vend all up
limber lion
I think I will use the simplest but longest way to succeed: do everything myself...
I would highly, highly recommend that you do not do that
Just use Afenar and modify it to your needs
brazen zodiac
lets go learn some shit on How to Weakaura
its a lot harder then u think
limber lion
There is no reason to make new weakauras from scratch and trying to make stuff happen
Just copy what others are doing and modify them to your needs
limber lion
By changing the positions and removing the movement conditions, you can set your weakauras to always appear in the same slots everytime and not move around
iron orchid
btw cev is it possible to add a glow as you did on your aura but on my plater nameplates
for pandemic
limber lion
Like if I talent Exsang and HB, they appear on top of the previous Alacrity and CT weakauras respectively
instead of popping around everywhere
limber lion
btw cev is it possible to add a glow as you did on your aura but on my plater na...
Yes, but it's a bit tougher to do so
Plater is not as intuitive and you need to write a custom script that checks for Vendetta, Vendetta timers and bleed timers
iron orchid
alright
coral fable
I just found your plater profile, Cev, thanks a ton for sharing that 🙂
iron orchid
i'll have a look at that this we
iron orchid
Once i'm done with school-related things, i'll also try to start messing with apl stuff, i want to understand it better
limber lion
This is by default out of combat, where you don't have 2 icons on top of CP like...
And honestly, because we currently play CT everywhere, I think placing CT next to Garrote/Rupture is a better choice and moving Slice and Dice up where CT is currently
CTTC removes any kind of need to track SnD honestly.
hollow escarp
could even turn snd in a progress bar
iron orchid
CTTC removes any kind of need to track SnD honestly.
i just have my tracker change color to remind me snd even exists sometimes and i need to fit an env
timid cloud
My alacrity disappeared on Afenars for some reason. 
Also do you have pandemic on your CT too?
I gotta throw those into mine tbh.
For Gar/Rup
brazen zodiac
it didnt disappear, its just you gotta move it
lol mine ended up under garrote for some reason at some point, no idea when
limber lion
Also do you have pandemic on your CT too?
I do not, because I don't think it's that important to track - or wasn't previously when we only played CT in AoE
I could add pandemic to CT as well
But because I've played the spec for years on end, the pandemic timers are pretty ingrained in my mind.
timid cloud
I’m just mega bad at math & I can’t do pandemic on CT mentally.
limber lion
Could probably do without any, but it helps if you zone out or whatever
timid cloud
Yeah.
rotund oak
Could probably do without any, but it helps if you zone out or whatever
The fact that u are not streaming or doing guides makes me wanna slap u
(with all the love in the world 😅 )
cold patio
Assa Dot wants sword out of cache trinket?
zinc frost
Always go axe
cold patio
hm is haste not super nice für snapshot burst?
rotund oak
!cache
prisma monolithBOT
Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand
cold patio
okay okay thx 😄
plain saddle
Hey, wondering if anyone could help me understand why I can't get a 272 IQD/Phial (or any of my other trinkets for that matter) to sim higher than a 272 FCM/Tirathon's combination?
I was under the impression that IQD was really good on sin, or am I missing something here? o.o
limber lion
Hey, wondering if anyone could help me understand why I can't get a 272 IQD/Phia...
- Are you Venthyr?
- Have you simmed your gems/enchants/rings at the same time as the IQD? You want crit to be your highest stat, followed up by haste.
plain saddle
Yeah Venthyr, not simming anything else other than trinkets and current stats are Crit > Haste > Vers > Mastery
Thought maybe it might be the Thrill Seeker haste buff from Nadjia throwing it off but it's the same story with Theotar sims 😕
plain saddle
limber lion
how high have you set the iqd threshhold and have you turned execute off?
plain saddle
100%, execute off
limber lion
welp
polar sinew
Finally i got it the way i want, it's not clean or symetric but at least i know where to look at in a fight to tract what i need ... (the only problem is that works only for assa venth xD)
brazen zodiac
^
hybrid vale
Random trivia question: what’s the worst rogue spec + covenant synergy out of all the 3 specs right now? Perhaps assa kyrian or night fae outlaw
limber lion
Necrolord Sub
vestal wren
necrolord sub probably
limber lion
And it's not even close
vestal wren
necrolord just does not work well with the combo point economy and rotational design of the spec
also unlike with sin, it does not interact with a lot of the spec
hybrid vale
Interesting
limber lion
Hey, wondering if anyone could help me understand why I can't get a 272 IQD/Phia...
Well, I would just trust the sim here. IQD/Sigil might pull ahead at 278 ilvl, but currently it looks like TB and FCM are the best choices for you.
IQD is not super duper excellent out of the water trinket
It's one of our better trinkets, but it's nothing extraordinary
vestal wren
necrolord e.g. is also not great on outlaw single target, but it works well in multi target, for sub it does not even get ahead with multiple targets
hybrid vale
Lmao I need to learn more about shadowlands sub
Haven’t played sub since legion
Goremaws bite
vestal wren
goremaws with a tiny chance to bug out and do a lot more damage than intended
i remember ^^
but if you did like the dfa iteration, the current iteration won't be to your liking
it is more towards the early legion one, with a lot of shadow dance use
hybrid vale
Indeed, I liked the little omega burst windows that were somewhat punishing
vestal wren
blizz got rid of that entirely and formed it into a "no burst" spec
thorn lynx
With kyrian, it's not so much a burst window anymore lol
limber lion
vestal wren
assassination has a rly high initial burst spike, i think we will see it played a lot more on speedkills
hybrid vale
Oh that’s definitely not the roller coaster I remember
Damn
Looks like people have 60% uptime on dance in single target too
plain saddle
Well, I would just trust the sim here. IQD/Sigil might pull ahead at 278 ilvl, b...
Fair enough, thanks Cev! ^^
Just out of curiosity, do you have any theory on why the Legion trinkets are consistently simming so far ahead of others at equal ilvl? Is there some synergy here that I'm not seeing?
thorn lynx
assassination has a rly high initial burst spike, i think we will see it played ...
I never even got close to that on mythic Spider boss yesterday and that was with PI during vendetta
limber lion
Fair enough, thanks Cev! ^^
Just out of curiosity, do you have any theory on why...
No, they're just tuned to be really good to make legion timewalking content relevant.
thorn lynx
Think I peaked at 32k? Something around there
limber lion
We had more synergy with FCM last patch because of the frost set, now it's just flat damage all the way through.
vestal wren
Looks like people have 60% uptime on dance in single target too
yes, dance uptime already changes quite a bit at the start of the xpac
they even nerfed es to bring it back down
but tier set and changes to sht now make it 60%+
limber lion
Think I peaked at 32k? Something around there
Yeah, but the graph is showing a slightly different thing than what you're experiencing with Details.
hybrid vale
They’re great now but that kind of profile is a bit dangerous, if they were to be numerically tuned they’d just be crap
No burst or execute dam
limber lion
Details is showing the overall damage that you're doing from start until that point in time, whereas that graph is showing the damage done at that current moment, not taking into account the elapsed time.
vestal wren
the sylvanas dagger provides a bit of a execute damage boost
fleet anchor
And it's not even close
Kyrian Assassination is probably close in basically the opposite way as Sub. For Sub it's all about generator economy (basically SBS has no real value since Sub Shadowstrikes so much and CP gen is a non issue) but for Assassination Kyrian is the same probably just for CP economy. Assassination has no real efficient use for more CP. Just more Envenoms, which are weaker than Rupture so it's a low scaling factor compared to Kyrian where Evisc is their main spender and more is more. But Necro Sub and Kyrian Assassination are two sides of the problem.
hybrid vale
Oh is that dagger bis for them for the rest of the pack
limber lion
Kyrian Assassination is probably *close* in basically the opposite way as Sub. F...
Yeah true. But we can all agree that they're both terrible
fleet anchor
Oh yes, they are lol
thorn lynx
Details is showing the overall damage that you're doing from start until that po...
Ahhh ok ok. Makes sense then. We'll shit, maybe I did get close to 50k? I'll check when I get home. Thanks for the info
limber lion
Ahhh ok ok. Makes sense then. We'll shit, maybe I did get close to 50k? I'll ch...
Yeah. As a reference, here's my opener, and as you can see the burst gets up to 60k. However at 12s, when you see the highest spike, I was at 29k dps.
15s later I was at 37.5k dps
hybrid vale
@vestal wren maybe I’ll play around with it, not a fan of it by sounds by the one thing I dislike about assass is I’m just energy starved on st
limber lion
So reading the graph is not really something that you can do just out of the top of your head. It gives good direction in how burst windows work and whatnot, but if you want to look at overall damage, trying to accurately guesstimate it from the graph is not really possible.
vestal wren
both sub and sin are good, so try both and stick to what you like more
limber lion
<@194804407706189824> maybe I’ll play around with it, not a fan of it by sounds ...
Energy starved?
thorn lynx
Yeah. As a reference, here's my opener, and as you can see the burst gets up to ...
Jesus that is a good looking chart. Hope mine is up there.
limber lion
Are you playing 9.1 Assassination or
Because the current Assa is far from being energy starved
limber lion
I'm assuming you don't have 4p then
limber lion
So
hybrid vale
Or if I can get internal bleeding up then I’m not
thorn lynx
Ya def energy starved with only one target
The only time I am energy starved is when I am waiting to put up my first garrote b4 first rupture (waiting like 1-2 sec at most) after that, I almost feel like I have extra energy
strange silo
oh nonono 272 iqd starts to sim better then hc sigil send help :d
hybrid vale
Like you mean you can always press Mut when building combos? Cause I def cannot
limber lion
Saying "I feel so energy starved" is a bit random, considering we're pretty much at energy saturation 50% of the time
But yeah, Assa is a spec that tends to slow down outside of cooldowns.
vestal wren
oh nonono 272 iqd starts to sim better then hc sigil send help :d
i have a weakaura in #subtlety-faq linked that helps with the use of iqd 😏
hybrid vale
I’m probably getting like idk 5 globals every 30 where I’m sitting there, that’s all. I thought I’d try something diff to see if I like it more
Having bis gear would probably help since I’ve noticed as my haste grows I’m filling more global but I won’t know till I do
limber lion
Having bis gear would probably help since I’ve noticed as my haste grows I’m fil...
Nah, that's bull
Do you know how much energy you get from haste?
hybrid vale
No idea
limber lion
Guess how much energy per second you get from 10% haste?
strange silo
i have a weakaura in <#856897746128207892> linked that helps with the use of iqd...
i know there are weakauras for it but still in my head its good for the start of a fight but then u always will give mana/heal other :d never played tho but still heard just terrible things xd
hybrid vale
Probably not too much
hybrid vale
.2
limber lion
30% extra haste
vestal wren
i know there are weakauras for it but still in my head its good for the start of...
it was a joke ^^
limber lion
from somewhere
randomly
not sure where
but somewhere
That's 2 energy per second
hybrid vale
Necro
For keys
But I’ll go venth for st if I get into a guild, they’re picky these days
But go on, 30% energy from unknown
Haste*
limber lion
Yeah, that's it
Gear and stats do not matter
You won't feel the difference
between a 230 geared rogue and a 280 geared rogue
except you'll see your number be higher on the dps meter
Don't get me wrong, haste is great and it definitely helps
But it's not even our best stat
hybrid vale
Hmm idk I mean how could haste not speed up energy gains thru venomous wounds
hybrid vale
It’s intangible difference tho you’re saying
hybrid vale
Well I’m not gearing for haste atm, just slapping in the highest ilvl, but it’s gotten a bit better since I was starting at 60
limber lion
If you do not like the current spec at 250 ilvl, you won't like it at 280 either
It will be just as slow
limber lion
But that's just how most specs in the game work, honestly
They slow down outside of cooldowns
then go zoom zoom during cooldowns
Except Sub, because it doesn't have any real cooldowns
It's the same all the way through
That's why it's also lacking in the burst department by a lot
hybrid vale
Hmm well I don’t need to be like fury warrior lvl atm to have fun but I just don’t love when I’m sitting there spamming mut and it’s just not happening
Apm
limber lion
Fire Mage does nothing but shoot out fire balls during downtime
Then they go ham during cds
then they slow down again
hybrid vale
I don’t mind doing less dmg during non burst windows it’s more being idle
limber lion
Hmm well I don’t need to be like fury warrior lvl atm to have fun but I just don...
Yeah, some people just don't like the concept that much and it's completely fine. It's not for everyone.
I personally like going super ham for 30 seconds, then taking it easier for 30s, then going ham again
hybrid vale
I wasn’t sure if it was going to get better tho
limber lion
It won't.
It's the same thing
Only thing that matters is whether you have 4p or not
cloud reef
Buy some thistle teas for extra energy 
limber lion
And if you already have it and still dislike it for the downtime between Vendetta casts, then it's not for you
It's a spec where you can press your button once a second instead of 20 times a second
hybrid vale
The one awesome thing I like is vendetta being off gcd and pressing everything in quick succession
limber lion
a boomer spec, if you will
hybrid vale
But outside yeah it’s a little deflated
cloud reef
I get jealous when I see how little rng sin gets vs sub
limber lion
Both are great specs, but I feel like Assa has the edge because of more consistent, higher dps.
vestal wren
its a delivered decision the dev team made, subtlety players did ask for less rng ^^
limber lion
But both have their things and niche
cloud reef
With leggo/talent interactions it’s too much
vestal wren
double step is rly nice on some fights
limber lion
Even Push thinks Assa is the better spec for most bosses and he's a Sub onetrick.
Yeah, utility wise there's some room for improvement for Assa for sure.
indigo mulch
Sub is much more versatile than what sin is if you ask me.
indigo mulch
I do think sin fil its niche tho
hybrid vale
In keys tho I have a lot of energy so it’s a conflicting thing but I’ll keep the gearing up not impacting apm I n mind
vestal wren
well same, i think the tier set give sin a substantial advantage, but ofc only after getting 4p
cloud reef
Venthyr looks a little unholy
vestal wren
what was likely why there was so much "sky is falling" talk before catalyst
limber lion
In keys tho I have a lot of energy so it’s a conflicting thing but I’ll keep the...
Yeah, with 2 targets you're almost at energy saturation already. Slap a 4p there and you're wasting most of your energy.
hybrid vale
I feel like cleaving I’m overflowing for sure
cloud reef
Waiting on cev to find some secret sepsis tech to bring it back to bis
hybrid vale
That’s where I’m having the most fun
limber lion
Waiting on cev to find some secret sepsis tech to bring it back to bis
It's not happening unfortunately.
Field of Blossoms in itself is around a 1.1k dps increase if you stand in it the entire 18 seconds
And that's just not happening
So even if we did find a gain, we probs wouldn't recommend it becasue of FoB
vestal wren
maybe they add a lower gcd to both sin/sub during ar
unsure how much dps that would be worth
limber lion
Nadja is just more versatile all things considered.
hybrid vale
So @limber lion where does most of the finesse and mastery come into play with assass? What makes for a great assa rogue; beyond the current 4pc venth interaction.
limber lion
maybe they add a lower gcd to both sin/sub during ar
I think that boat has sailed unfortunately.
hybrid vale
Skill wise
limber lion
So <@165215952479322112> where does most of the finesse and mastery come into pl...
Being able to think 20s ahead at all times.
cloud reef
Field of Blossoms in itself is around a 1.1k dps increase if you stand in it the...
How much value do the sims assume?
limber lion
And planning out every cooldown and gcd 20s in advance.
limber lion
How much value do the sims assume?
100%
limber lion
So <@165215952479322112> where does most of the finesse and mastery come into pl...
But yeah, knowing how to play around each cooldown, knowing when to sync and when not to sync cooldowns, being spatially aware during encounters, being aware of mechanics/add spawns during encounters and so on
fleet atlas
Hey yall. Going back to sin from sub for lords tonight. Do we blow vend in opener like normal or hold for first swarm?
limber lion
Always thinking 20-30s ahead will get you far, if you nail down the basic rotation.
gusty mirage
@limber lion I fixed my lihuvim parse, it’s a lot better than it was before 
limber lion
Hey yall. Going back to sin from sub for lords tonight. Do we blow vend in opene...
Hold for first swarm. Play Necrolord with Zoldyck.
limber lion
<@165215952479322112> I fixed my lihuvim parse, it’s a lot better than it was be...
we love to hear it
fleet atlas
@limber lion thanks
hybrid vale
Does the fae legendary really do that much given we’re already overflown with resources ? I mean extra attack speed from AR and extra shadow dmg and combo points from blades is nice but
gusty mirage
We’re gaming now, swapping between sin and sub freely, finally doing some decent damage
Crab dead. Not benched for andy
limber lion
Does the fae legendary really do that much given we’re already overflown with re...
It does not do too too much, no. The Dreamweaver Soulbind is the thing that's crazy for Night Fae
and unfortunately it's terrible to play.
hybrid vale
The blossoms ?
limber lion
Crab dead. Not benched for andy
happy days, you get to play the game :3
limber lion
The blossoms ?
Field of Blossoms, yes.
hybrid vale
You also get pod tender right? Which seems to be useful
limber lion
It's terrible
gusty mirage
Sepsis conduit hard carries the ability too
limber lion
Because we play Cheat Death everywhere
hollow escarp
And dauntless duelist nf version
hybrid vale
Ohhh it procs but pots you anyway?
limber lion
More often than not they proc at the same time, which is not great
hybrid vale
I see
limber lion
So you end up sitting in Podtender for 10s or whatever, even though you could have just continued your rotation normally with just Cheat.
But yeah, sims assume 100% uptime on Field of Blossoms, which is not possible in any sense of the word, ever.
Not even on Skolex.
hybrid vale
I play elusiveness , not cd but that’s cause I’m just too used to legion rogue
gusty mirage
How many painsmith wipes last tier could’ve been avoided if podtender wasn’t a thing
limber lion
vestal wren
haha, blizz pls remove theo tea cd and give option to dissable/break pot
gusty mirage
Also make it so the tea is only usable if you have Theo bound
spice spire
Amen
hybrid vale
Doesn’t it have an internal cd
limber lion
I would try my hardest to find more Night Fae gains, if Field of Blossoms was better
hybrid vale
Pod tender
limber lion
like a buff on your person
limber lion
Pod tender
Yes
vestal wren
Also make it so the tea is only usable if you have Theo bound <:starege:92319727...
if it has no cd, its irrelevant 
hollow escarp
Also make it so the tea is only usable if you have Theo bound <:starege:92319727...
You cannot use tea while Nadja since 9.2 iirc
limber lion
hybrid vale
Could you intentionally die before every boss to trigger
hybrid vale
Spec out of cheat death, pot, cone back to life, spec back cheat death
hollow escarp
The issue is people use tea as Theo, swap spec, defaults nadjia and tea is on cd now
limber lion
Could you intentionally die before every boss to trigger
I mean, yeah, but that's a lot of work for no gain whatsoever honestly
You'll just wipe 1 min later and it's over
tidal gorge
WTB secret trick for getting 278 dagger out of vault so I can switch to sin again. Please advise. 
high magnet
So if someone were to play NF despite being not top, could you play 3P Niya for similar gains to Dreamweaver, assuming you only get 50%ish value out of FoB?
limber lion
just play Venthyr
limber lion
So if someone were to play NF despite being not top, could you play 3P Niya for ...
You should play Niya with Herbs.
It's pretty decent and does more damage than 50% FoB
hybrid vale
Night fae looked like it’d be so good with the 4pc, I’m sure sepsis does a lot of dmg during that window but that leggo seems horrendous
limber lion
Much more consistent, no random circles on the floor or Podtender
If you want to play Night Fae, just play Niya with Herbs
It is quite a bit worse than Venthyr, but we don't discriminate
hybrid vale
But at least it gives you the cds at the second half of your vendetta so you can snapshot your dots easier before it ends? Do you still do that as fae
Or is it venth only
random fossil
is zoldyck worth keeping after getting 4pc
manic harness
I'm prepping to play Assassination again, let me make sure I'm understanding the rule here.
limber lion
But at least it gives you the cds at the second half of your vendetta so you can...
Yes, you do that with every covenant.
limber lion
is zoldyck worth keeping after getting 4pc
For Lords and occasional m+, yes
manic harness
With 4pc, when Vendetta has 3 seconds left, if Rupture or Garrote have 6 seconds left on their durations, refresh before Vendetta ends?
random fossil
so no duskwalker for m+? 😮
hybrid vale
Do you guys shiv at 5 cps to get more amped envenoms if you find yourself at that awkward point
Wasted a combo point but I figure it’s better than holding it
I could plan better and just wait for it to come off cd at 3 combo points
And pool energy
limber lion
Do you guys shiv at 5 cps to get more amped envenoms if you find yourself at tha...
Doesn't really matter, you end up holding one of the Shiv's for every other Vendetta a bit anyways
I would just Env - Shiv
hollow escarp
so no duskwalker for m+? 😮
dusk is fine in m+, you have prio damage each pack
limber lion
Or like you said Env - Muti - Shiv
dire spoke
Does double rogue still cuck each others Shiv?
hollow escarp
dire spoke
random fossil
dusk is fine in m+, you have prio damage each pack
cool cool, thank u! @hollow escarp @limber lion
hybrid vale
See like it does feel good to maximize shiv too, maybe I’ll just bite the bullet on slowing down sometimes outside of cds
strange python
I've gone casual :( didn't have it in me to retire outright. Am aotc player now
hollow escarp
yeah, even regulars skip pins sometimes 
dire spoke
Im on mobile fuck you
hybrid vale
I outdps’ed a vulpera assa rogue who had 20 ilvl on me
I don’t know how but that was nice
On halan
hollow escarp
can vulperas hit Lihuvim while he is in the air?
I think they can't jump high enough
hybrid vale
I don’t know this guy was rping probably he had a little pirate hat on
Still had some 9.1 mythic stuff on so he probably doesn’t know any of the new stuff
manic harness
For Conduits, we use whichever 2 sim best for Nadja? It says to use 3
I don't see a 3rd potency, or am I just blind?
limber lion
I don't see a 3rd potency, or am I just blind?
Instead of Dauntless Duelist, you would use the third potency.
That's the general recommendation.
limber lion
You would want DD on single target bosses, like Skolex, HallyD, Dausegne
But that's it
manic harness
ah I see
Cev, can Assassination keep up against sub in super AOE scenarios?
The 2pc with Crimson seems like good burst, comparable to Symbols/Powder spam
At least while you have the 40% buff
limber lion
Cev, can Assassination keep up against sub in super AOE scenarios?
What do you mean with super AOE?
I mean, probably doesn't matter what you mean
manic harness
Big packs, extended time
limber lion
the answer is no
vestal wren
hallyD = crab?
limber lion
Sub just wins everytime on AoE, especially when you slap in an Axe from Cache on top.
limber lion
hallyD = crab?
Yep
manic harness
Well my plan is just to play Assassination for strictly ST because I am fucking trash at Kyrian Sub, I honestly hate its gameplay
vestal wren
aoe is not that important for raid, makes sin a good competition
manic harness
so I guess I'll stick with DD then
limber lion
Yeah that's fair enough
strange silo
skolex could be a good theotar fight right? i mean the only real problem could be the stack
limber lion
Skolex is not the greatest Theotar fight either because you're forced to move quite a lot because of the puddles that spawn
You might get a Theotar proc while you're dodging
And then it's wasted entirely
Same with stacking up for Retch
DDNadja is just the better choice imo
strange silo
hm ok yea true meh just swapped for the meme and used tea and its haste thats why i thought maybe maaaaaybe its theo time
glass tulip
imagine dodging out of melee range to bait your umbrella
brazen zodiac
imagine imagining
unborn ruin
Do you delay shiv for vendetta or slam on CD? The FAQ makes it sound like you slam on CD
manic harness
Should I be refreshing Rupture/Garrote before casting Vendetta? Seems like it
vast loom
Actually ive been wondering about that myself, sometimes i enter into flag with Rupture already pretty high so i wonder if i should envenom MFD tempest instead
my feely craft sensors are saying that as long as rupture/garrote dont fall off its probably not a loss
limber lion
Should I be refreshing Rupture/Garrote before casting Vendetta? Seems like it
Follow normal pandemic rules
limber lion
Actually ive been wondering about that myself, sometimes i enter into flag with ...
Yes, follow normal pandemic rules
vast loom
thats what i thought
limber lion
We only force reapplication towards the end of Vendetta
limber lion
No
But if you read the pin, you'll see that you have a 3s window to do that
So you should be able to get to 4-5CP and Rupture everytime
limber lion
Do you force repp with less than 5 CP?
Sorry, we finish at 4-5CP
Not at 5.
All the way through, always.
manic harness
Thank you 🙂
white gull
best thrinkets for assas? Fuus sims recommend phial meanwhile bloodmallet ranks phial rly low
glass tulip
sigil, cache, iqd, phial are all good options
vast loom
also do we still never use skolex trinket? like is it still sim bait
vestal wren
best thrinkets for assas? Fuus sims recommend phial meanwhile bloodmallet ranks ...
maybe that is because he does only replace 1 trinket at the time
what would mean he would equip 2 phials in his sims
but i would need to look at his script to know how it works
bells is probably the only trinket that could be considered simbait
because its value can vary so much and in worse case has 0 value
unborn needle
For Raid/ST, do you use Spectral Agility or Phantom Fire?
hollow river
Agi
vestal wren
you basically use agi always
outlaw would be the only spec that has phantom fire as a competitive option
wide bolt
I see in the FAQ we run Nadjia ST but for me Theotar is simming higher is it just because it assumes high uptime from the circle on the ground?
limber lion
I see in the FAQ we run Nadjia ST but for me Theotar is simming higher is it jus...
That is correct.
Rerolling teas is also a pain.
vestal wren
nadja with 3 potencies is more consistent
theo has umbrella and tea that can make its value a bit lower
wide bolt
Gotcha just noticed all the gains sin has gotten from apl improvements and was looking into if it was worth swapping to it on Halo and noticed this so good to know thanks!
limber lion
They both perform pretty similarly on Halondrus
Play whichever you like more
If it's the end of the world not having 2 shadowsteps, then play Sub
wide bolt
hm true id actually have to worry about the knockback then lol. Basically looking into if trading off that ease of mind is worth the more consistent dps from sin
strange python
Cev would you say feral is better than assa rn 🤔
vestal wren
poor feral druids
strange python
idk feral logs are kinda massive in raid
craggy oak
define better
limber lion
Cev would you say feral is better than assa rn 🤔
No.
loud light
maybe that is because he does only replace 1 trinket at the time
on the trinket page it says he generates a base profile where the other trinket is an eye of guarm with main stat and vers (I assume scaled up ilvl, I can't find a link to a report)
vestal wren
ah fair
limber lion
I think Feral and Assa are very similar in throughput
They just work off of different fight lengths
Feral still has to battle it out with Convoke every single pull
It feels pretty damn good when it pops off, but the second you notice 9 regrowths on your raid frames, it's game over
strange python
Yeah I was just looking at logs and feral is a bit ahead on some fights
convoke rng is big though
limber lion
Assa is definitely more consistent, it also works in 1 min cds very consistently
Feral cds are a bit random
limber lion
But I have to say, they are both specs that lack players. I could see both doing well, but because they are so little played, they don't get those super insane logs either
strange python
Much easier to play tho too I’d say
iron orchid
But I have to say, they are both specs that lack players. I could see both doing...
my 2 main specs rn 
strange python
Ig depends on the person
limber lion
Yeah, I mean if a fight ends when you get the berserk + convoke combo the second time, Feral will take the cake
So that's probably like 5 mins in, if Berserk lines up well
I like Feral, but owlweaving is dumb
iron orchid
I like Feral, but owlweaving is dumb
true
limber lion
If only boomie form had 1s gcd's like normal feral, it would be so good to play
craggy oak
is owlweaving still a thing?
limber lion
yes
limber lion
A lot of people don't care enough to do it
it's like 150 dps or something
so they just ignore it
limber lion
Yeah, pretty fun spec in st
Not a fan of Feral on aoe though
Could use Venomous Wounds
strange python
Yupp
iron orchid
4p is insane, but works for like the very first seconds of packs in m+
limber lion
Yeah I mean I love the burst
iron orchid
then you just wait
limber lion
but playing after that is just weird
iron orchid
but playing after that is just weird
exactly
strange python
With the vendetta window being so quick I find myself panicking and missing slow feral pace
limber lion
With the vendetta window being so quick I find myself panicking and missing slow...
Yeh, I'm a bit the opposite nowadays