assassination

[balmy condor]

and echoing blades from bfa

and the conduit from shadowlands

and we might be able to do half the aoe of destro

[limber swallow]

this is quite the rube goldberg machine you've assembled.

[bleak sky]

half? huff more copium

[timid cloud]

PAIN

||Hidden Blades FOK in ST was the darkest tech of all.||

[kindred oriole]

I think we may be able to bait Devs into buffing assassination if you rename the channel # Fire Mage

[limber swallow]

this is an idea I can get behind

[signal pier]

Lowkey make FoK off gcd and cost no energy and then we can probably do like one fourth of destro

With hidden blades

[kindred oriole]

What I have to say about hidden blades:

[signal pier]

Its hidden so its greyed out

It has "hidden" potential that guides are unable to see

At this point just buff CT

Id take anything

[kindred oriole]

So one question I had: why would shuriken storm generate 1CP per target, but FoK generates 1CP overall if you do not crit?

[timid cloud]

Because class design.

[bleak sky]

[timid cloud]

EvErY SpeC HAsS To BE UnuQie

[storm onyx]

*/sigh

Need to check the history of Shuriken Storm actually

If it was like that at 1st iteration or was it buffed when Bliz decided to bring Sub up at some point

[signal pier]

I just wonder what has made them to buff FoK, what kind of next level sims or tests are they performing to reach the conclusion that the FoK buff can be called "tuning"

[balmy condor]

they don't

[kindred oriole]

^^this

[signal pier]

I am trying to put myself in their shoes, like why would their brain work like this then?

[balmy condor]

the way they have buffed shit over the years leaves the only conclusion that they might glance at a warcraftlogs chart and hit a dummy for 5 minutes, blindfold themselves, spin until they're dizzy and then throw a dart at a board

[bleak sky]

why would they buff blade flurry to 50%?

[signal pier]

That too

Those changes are not tuning

[kindred oriole]

They aren't THAT smart.

[signal pier]

They are meaningless and we would probably feel better without them since now that we know they consider these changes "tuning" I am even more hopeless than before

[balmy condor]

if they wanted to talk about numbers and tuning, they could reach out and talk to theorycrafters and actual people running numbers, guide writers, hell, I would even take just reaching out to top players even though they say some incredibly dumb shit sometimes

but they don't

[signal pier]

^

[balmy condor]

we were reached out to by scarizard in order to talk about tier set tuning and bonuses

and we're eternally grateful for that

[bleak sky]

and look at outlaw now

[balmy condor]

but he's one man

doing 9 tier sets

[signal pier]

They need to reach you about design before expansion

[balmy condor]

and he's not a class designer

[signal pier]

Yep

It just feels like they don't play the same game

[balmy condor]

and in the legion days sephuz had backchannels to theorycrafters

which was helpful sometimes

[marble hemlock]

*a lot of times

[balmy condor]

but those are the only two times the rogue theorycrafting community has gotten actual direct contact

[signal pier]

Pretty sure rwf guilds have connections to blizz, might be a somewhat reliable way to communicate or at least throw something at them

[balmy condor]

the best we do now is just cry about stuff in wowhead posts, submit endless bug reports in game, cry on twitter, pray someone lurks in discord, and just hope

[marble hemlock]

But the biggest boon was that he was actually a main rogue. No non rogue is ever gonna be able to use the compiled or individual feedback we give unless they actually have a decent understanding of what we're actually talking about

[balmy condor]

I mean frankly from what I hear, they just need more class devs

[kindred oriole]

No but you know what's dumb? They spend time and probably money trying to figure out damage profiles by themselves, when the community is developing better and more reliable resources FOR FREE. That's how dumb they are.

[balmy condor]

they had 1 dev for 9 specs for tier sets

I don't really understand why they don't have at least 1 dev just assigned to each class

[bleak sky]

they have SO MUCH MORE DATA than we have though

SO MUCH MORE

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

And he got assigned to most of these, didn't he? From what i understood it wasn't a "i wanna design these" situation for all of those 9

[balmy condor]

yeah

he was assigned

[signal pier]

They probably think its a waste of money considering we ate still playing their game

[kindred oriole]

They have ALL this data. And they could get it worked on FOR FREE.

[marble hemlock]

It's not that simple

[kindred oriole]

I would look at their fucking data.

[bleak sky]

ok

[balmy condor]

we can have them fix bugs all day trust me they'd get their moneys worth

[bleak sky]

What would you do, NaEj?

[marble hemlock]

There isn't a whole lot of competent programmers or developers with work experience who also happen to play the game that much

[signal pier]

I mean assigning more than 1 person per clasd

Class*

[bleak sky]

How would you fix sin's M+ problem without bufffing the ever living shit out of sin in ST

[marble hemlock]

And working on the game typically kills the desire to also play it

[marble hemlock]

Assa is one of the easiest specs to balance for this

[signal pier]

True, what would you do?

[marble hemlock]

Buff rupture, nerf mutilate. Done.

[kindred oriole]

I'd give them combustion. They someone over there would care and fix it.

[bleak sky]

[kindred oriole]

Ha ha

[marble hemlock]

One you use in AOE and st, one you only use in st.

[signal pier]

Wouldnt you hit a wall of reapplying rupture? Like above 5 targets and it becomes pain

[kindred oriole]

I was a fire mage for 15 years, I'm allowed these jokes 😛

[marble hemlock]

So any st gained from buffing rupture you offset by nerfing st-only abilities

[kindred oriole]

^^this literally took 5 seconds to fix

[marble hemlock]

Assa has abilities you only use in st, AOE, or both. That gives you enough knobs to tune it where you want it to be

[signal pier]

But can you really call manually spreading rupture an AoE?

Considering our current kit

[kindred oriole]

In general I agree with you, moving some of the dmg towards bleeds, and away from ST Mutilate/Envenom seems a good idea.

[marble hemlock]

Most classes operate like this, still. But they're not tuning in this way. Which is weird.

Instead they're mostly using aura buffs

[signal pier]

Spriest worked like that, but had misery and that new sl aoe

[marble hemlock]

Which are terrible

[signal pier]

What other classes work like this

[slow marsh]

How come I leave for like 5 hours and come back to the same topic. I'm gonna start malding

[marble hemlock]

Almost all of them?

Almost every spec has abilities that are only used in st, some that are only used in aoe, and some that are used in both

[signal pier]

Every dot class has a thing that spreads dots for them/aoe ability that compensate for the effort of spreading dots

[marble hemlock]

That is more than enough tools to buff a class by 10% in aoe, realize it deals 3% more st damage now aswell, and since you dont want that, you nerf the st abilities accordingly so its a +/- 0dps change on st

[signal pier]

Boomy, spriest, aff lock

[marble hemlock]

I hate to break your illusion

But none of those 3 specs are DoT specs

Not anymore

[signal pier]

So what dot specs are left

[marble hemlock]

Assa

There

Thats all of them

[balmy condor]

I mean....
buff fok more
buff pk
buff CT
buff hidden blades to not be a stupid design
make ruptures give you a stacking buff for the amount of bleeds out
make CT do bonus damage to poisoned targets
add a poison that does aoe
rework venom rush to allow envenom to cleave targets
rework venom rush to make fok apply poisons more often
make fok give 2 cp or even 3cp baseline
fok now advances bleeds by 1 tick on crit
make CT deal increased damage per target

[slow marsh]

I'm gonna just be the broken record about it cuz it's easy. Just buff fok +100% damage and we can work with it at least

[marble hemlock]

Yeah

Lets buff builders more

[signal pier]

You say "all classes work like this" you have only 1 dot class so yeah your statement is true

[marble hemlock]

Cause that wasnt the problem

For the last 3 expansions

Oh wait it was

[balmy condor]

there's literally thousands of ways

[slow marsh]

It's not a final solution but they can't fix our issues in a hotfix apparently

[marble hemlock]

They can

Theyre just not doing it

[slow marsh]

I mean I agree they can but they won't

[marble hemlock]

Blizzard can fix a lot of issues with a hotfix, if they wanted to

But they dont

[slow marsh]

I was malding about it earlier

[marble hemlock]

Unless you play mage, ofc

[bleak sky]

I like those

give

[marble hemlock]

I mean

[signal pier]

They cant anymore, they would break the tradition of not changing skills mid patch

[marble hemlock]

Countless of people have posted suggestions and given feedback in a myriad of ways for years

[signal pier]

They cant change tooltip lines mid patch, best case is 9.2.5

They wont change*

[marble hemlock]

Im surprised we got "class tuning" at all

Fully expected there to be none until 10.0

Since we didnt really have any in SoD

Idk

[slow marsh]

Give like literally 3 of these and it changes the game for us until 10.0 when we get a full tune up/ redesign

[signal pier]

Id rather not have half assed tuning, and keep inhaling hopium that it might happen

[marble hemlock]

It's the same stupid discussion all the time. Blizzard has all the tools available, and can get all the help needed, to make long-lasting and good changes to individual classes to make them feel interesting and balance them better. They just don't.

[balmy condor]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qGsZILbtH5OKH-s8ZpNcFIJTW0hOffjy7UrP4KaNj4w/edit

^ literally free ideas take them all some of them are radical as fuck but at least they're new

sin hasn't changed in like

10 years

please

anything

a crumb of change

[marble hemlock]

Whispyr selfpromoting his list

For the 500th time

Still not banned

[balmy condor]

I will

until things change

fuck it

[signal pier]

Yo let me read this

[balmy condor]

I'll make a second one

Idc

[slow marsh]

Do it

[balmy condor]

that ones a year and a half old

[marble hemlock]

We should compile all of ours

And mail it to Ion

Every week

[balmy condor]

I can rework sin 15 times

[slow marsh]

We should collab

The official RH sin rework proposal

[storm onyx]

there was a change of dmg profiles being swapped with Sub, but play style didnt change yea

[signal pier]

Can u pin this

[marble hemlock]

No

[balmy condor]

no

[signal pier]

Okay

Thanks for your quick response

[marble hemlock]

No

[balmy condor]

seli disagrees with half my takes as well

[marble hemlock]

Yeah

But it's mostly just

[slow marsh]

Same but at least it's something

[signal pier]

Selia do you have your own list?

[balmy condor]

I'm sure every sin community figure + has their own list of changes

[marble hemlock]

Not in a format like that, no

I did have some beta feedback shit somewhere

Wrote a big feedback piece on IV etc.

Wrote a bunch of shit about Valor too

But at the end of the day, it's not for lack of ideas that no changes are happening.

[balmy condor]

one that basically every theorycrafter in the last 6 years has agreed on has been swap venomous wounds to be poison tick on bleed target not bleed tick on poison target

[slow marsh]

Ye

Or just remove it

[marble hemlock]

No

[balmy condor]

I don't think that's the solution

[marble hemlock]

VW is one of the best tools they have

[balmy condor]

venomous wounds is cool

[marble hemlock]

To balance the class

[balmy condor]

slow single target to fast aoe

and feeling the change

is very sick

best part of sin

[marble hemlock]

Any ability that scales better in AoE, to an almost unlimited extent, is a great thing to have

We need more of that, not less

VW not dealing damage anymore is one of the bigger tragedies that has befallen the spec

[slow marsh]

I mean I was gonna say just remove VW / rework it to be a stacking haste buff instead of direct energy gain but

[marble hemlock]

God no

Stop it with the Haste shit

Haste for classes with static GCD is the least interesting stat imaginable

Well thats not true, versatility exists

But still

[signal pier]

Vers is an awful excuse of we dont have anything else for u

[marble hemlock]

Frankly, I think the static GCD for Rogues/Ferals needs to go

[balmy condor]

okay well all stats are really boring

that's a problem game wide

lets not kid ourselves

that's a bigger problem

[signal pier]

Crit interactions are better than vers

Mastery is more interesting than vers

[marble hemlock]

The fact were still sitting at 1 sec GCD while most classes start with 1.5sec, but typically go below 1sec during BL/CDs, is a major balancing issue that cannot be remedied

[slow marsh]

False

[signal pier]

Vers is just more agility in disguise

[marble hemlock]

Crit dependancy for Assa needs to go

[slow marsh]

Dependency true

[marble hemlock]

There is nothing interesting about crit-dependacies in any spec

[slow marsh]

Seal fate is iconic tho

[marble hemlock]

Its also shit

[balmy condor]

haste makes your spec go faster and increases your casts which is all your damage
crit is a % damage buff to all abilities, and there's some interactions with some specs
vers is a % damage buff to all abilities, and it reduces damage taken
mastery is % damage buff to some abilities

they all do the same shit

[slow marsh]

I mean true but you can make it better

[balmy condor]

just different flavors

[signal pier]

Dependancy no, interaction yes

[balmy condor]

you can have the lemon flavored stat or the lime flavored stat

[marble hemlock]

You cannot have one without the other

[balmy condor]

it's still all citrus

[signal pier]

You can have mild bonuses

Not 5% dps increase

[marble hemlock]

Then theyre not meaningful enough to build an identity around

[signal pier]

Yep

[marble hemlock]

Firemage didnt work with crit interactions until they basically gave them abilities that had 100% crit

Didn't work well for warriors either

Doesnt work well for Assa

[signal pier]

Cant argue with that, yeah

[marble hemlock]

Didnt work well for Frost either

Or holypaladin

[slow marsh]

Stats would be better if things interacted with them more

[marble hemlock]

All the "get x on crit" specs were basically unplayable until you hit certain levels of crit

[slow marsh]

There's not any real meaningful choice in stats anymore which is the real issue imo

[marble hemlock]

There never was

There isnt, in any game

Name me one game with meaningful choices when it comes to stat allocations?

[bleak sky]

ragnarok online

[signal pier]

Putting that one point in crit, that you might deal more dmg in lost ark pvp

[kindred oriole]

Maybe you guys will hate me, but among all things, the most annoying is the Alacrity talent.

What
a
boring
talent.

[cobalt pelican]

stat make number go up to make you do more damage than person with less stat

[slow marsh]

League of Legends old rune system

[cobalt pelican]

thats the only reason they exist

[slow marsh]

When you take 1 crit rune for 1% crit to win 1v1s

[signal pier]

Trueee

[marble hemlock]

The problem with stats is that theyre basically just an illusion of choice. You just play whatever turns out to be best for whatever scenario, and figuring that out is really easy in any game.

[signal pier]

Game changer for lvl 1 fights

[slow marsh]

9.1 frost shard build where you needed certain crit before it was viable

[marble hemlock]

More games recently have just opted to remove stats entirely and instead focus on skill-based design. The only games where stats typically matter, are the ones with rulesets running in the background that decide over whether or not you will succeed in dealing damage or avoiding a blow

[slow marsh]

I mean true because things don't interact with stats any more. Like things aren't enabled because you have x this stat or that stat

Skill based designs where everyone is on even playing fields is dull and boring

[cobalt pelican]

lol

[marble hemlock]

Depends entirely on the way the combat is set up

[slow marsh]

True

[marble hemlock]

But in a game like WoW, yes, that's true

A game with barely any skillshots and namelocked combat

You cant make meaningful skill-design

[signal pier]

I mean dh

Is kinda cool

His blade dancr

Or whatever

[marble hemlock]

But yeah anyway, time to sleep

[signal pier]

Gn

[kindred oriole]

Who cares about stats though.

I mean whatever, lets have stats in the game, remove them, rework them 5 times, it's not gameplay.

Give me meaningful gameplay choices.

[marble hemlock]

Assa has those. On AoE.

They just dont matter next to the class pressing the same button 10times in a row and doing 5times your DPS.

[bleak sky]

what about blade dance

[slow marsh]

It's a skill based ability

[kindred oriole]

Basically the only choice you have is Poison Bomb or CT.

I guess you can play Subterfuge or Premeditation if you feel wild.

[marble hemlock]

You have choice in every GCD you press

[versed cobalt]

NF viable in m+ Srry to break this riveting convo

[marble hemlock]

Whether you wanna spend your resources on more prio damage or more AoE

[kindred oriole]

No ok you didn't get what I was saying.

[versed cobalt]

Simple Y or N will suffice

[marble hemlock]

Theres no meaningful choices on a meta-level like talents, covenants, legendaries etc.

Those will always have 1 best choice

[kindred oriole]

I meant, give me options of different setups.

[marble hemlock]

Unless you bring back gearswapping, there will be no meaningful gameplay choices related to gearing, for example

[slow marsh]

Korayn kinda but Necro dumpsters it

[bleak sky]

I don't see how blade dance is anywhere close to a skillful ability

[versed cobalt]

Does the sepsis add any boom boom in AOE?

Oh ok

And I guess sub dumpsters sin 😦

[slow marsh]

Ofc

[versed cobalt]

5 cp Insta

Feels bad

[slow marsh]

2 buttons

[versed cobalt]

Yeah 😦

Honestly

Nameplates

Are my biggest enemy

Large trash packs

Shits bouncing everywhere

Can’t click or mouse over a damn thing

Camera angle all fucked up

[slow marsh]

Then just press shs powder problem solved grats you're playing the big aoe meta spec gg wp no re

[kindred oriole]

Maybe you are right I guess. I just hate how some rows in the talent tree are completely locked. Some legendary choices are locked also, and usually are just passive shit.

[storm onyx]

Sub/Assa cps generation/spending for aoe is just day/night

[versed cobalt]

Yeah 😦

[marble hemlock]

Theyll always be locked

I dont think theres any class, besides healers and tanks, that have meaningful choice

[slow marsh]

Blizz doesn't tune often enough or accurately enough to not have that be the case

[versed cobalt]

I mean I get that sub is strong for AOE in M+ but then atleast make sun pump just as hard in ST

[marble hemlock]

Imo talents just shouldnt have dps options at all, and should only allow you to choose between differetn kinds of utility/mobility/survivability

[bleak sky]

sin does pump as hard in st

[versed cobalt]

Sin* like give it a defining m+ niche

[bleak sky]

you don't really care for a ST only class in M+ though

[versed cobalt]

I misspoke

[bleak sky]

it's useless 80% of the dungeon

[marble hemlock]

The only other alternative is to have talent-rows that all alter one specific spell in different ways, akin to "skilltrees" for abilities

[slow marsh]

It does it just doesn't matter when you can press 2 buttons to do aoe and still have good st

[kindred oriole]

I mean I like how you can chose between say CT + Sub or MA + PB for example. I hate that Alacrity is locked in every context.

[marble hemlock]

I.e. you could have one talnet row dedicated to rupture and make it behave differently based on talent, and usable differnetly

[versed cobalt]

Ice blades said it better

That’s what I was trying to say lol

[marble hemlock]

But thats a lot of work

[slow marsh]

It is

[marble hemlock]

Cause youd have to do it for every talent row for every spec in the game

I do like skilltrees for abilities though

Last epoch is really cool because of that

[versed cobalt]

Honestly at this point

[marble hemlock]

One of the main features I enjoy the most about it

[versed cobalt]

I’d throw the towel and wait for 10.0

[slow marsh]

It would mean they'd have to have more than 2 people working 40 hours a week sorting through graphs to buff fok by 30%

[versed cobalt]

Sub will get nerfed

[slow marsh]

No it won't

[versed cobalt]

Sin or outlaw will get buffed

[slow marsh]

It shouldn't

[kindred oriole]

I doubt that

[versed cobalt]

I feel like they don’t keep rogues specs meta for more than 1 tier

[slow marsh]

Sub is annoying from our perspective but it's still rogue

[marble hemlock]

Sub will get another rework, assa will stay the same, theyll remove another RTB buff. Oh and we will have an announcement about pickpocketing things from mobs that allows us to make feint act in different ways, theyll nerf feint, and then forget about the pickpocket stuff. There, thats 10.0 rogue for you.

[versed cobalt]

Fire mage fury warrior and holy pally are the only metas they maintain tier after tier

I’m sure they’ll make some comment about returning to the Fantasy of being hidden in the shadows and also hidden on the meters

[slow marsh]

Hidden from guilds

[kindred oriole]

That's not true, Fire Mage was actually bad for a full 3 weeks. They putting it back to the top as compensation.

[tidal gorge]

10.0: You can pickpocket bosses. This gives you an item you can right click to distract the boss for 5 seconds at any point of the fight

[versed cobalt]

Bruh read that back to yourself

“A full three weeks”

[kindred oriole]

Yeah 😛

[versed cobalt]

Outlaw been out here waiting in bikini bottom for 2 years now

[kindred oriole]

I was mostly trying sarcasm, apparently I failed badly.

[versed cobalt]

Oh I see

Well said then

https://tenor.com/view/high-five-apir-news-news-report-alright-gif-4874001

[kindred oriole]

Imagine if they have to play Frost...

FOr one full tier?

[versed cobalt]

Honestly would love to see an absolute meta change next patch

[slow marsh]

God forbid mages have to play arcane for a fight

[versed cobalt]

Arcane, Sin Rogue, Arms Warrior

[slow marsh]

Arms war is meta wut

[versed cobalt]

I mean

Relative to fury

[slow marsh]

Warrior is almost never bad either

Relative to fury or not

[kindred oriole]

Arcane mage felt great at the end of BfA. Then they gave them 4 completely dumb legendary. That was the end of it.

[storm onyx]

Some root of the problem is linked to when they decided to swap Assasin/Sub
niche I think

[versed cobalt]

Arcane still feels good in high keys

And it’s a fun off spec

[kindred oriole]

Look.

[versed cobalt]

Can 3 button after a long day of carpal tunnel rupture

[slow marsh]

What niches

[versed cobalt]

Sub has no niche atm

It pumps AoE and ST

[slow marsh]

Sub has all the niches

[storm onyx]

Long ago, Sub was the bleed spec, Assain was the fast hard finisher

[versed cobalt]

sin also has no niche

In that it does mediocre AoE and relatively inoffensive St

But it’s not an ST god in M+ by any means

[slow marsh]

Long ago sub wasn't the bleed spec it was the PvP spec

[versed cobalt]

Now In raid thi

Sin put in that work boi

[kindred oriole]

Sin is super fun I think. By far the most fun spec to play. It's fun to play in keys. Just unrewarding AF.

[versed cobalt]

@kindred oriole you have a nameplates add on or something you use to spread ruptures?

[slow marsh]

Now imagine playing outlaw

[versed cobalt]

I’m serious

[storm onyx]

Yea pvp too, but dots was its area

[tidal gorge]

My wrists glare angrily in my direction after keys 😄

[willow eagle]

What made assa so good in season 1 m+?

Of bfa

[versed cobalt]

Like I lose so much downtime mousing or clocking over to another target

[kindred oriole]

You are out there, you are like "YES I NAILED THIS". -> 9k dps

[versed cobalt]

In large trash

[kindred oriole]

Of course.

[versed cobalt]

Pls share ur wisdom w me

I’m going to bed

[tidal gorge]

Part of why our aoe feels bad is we have primarily tunnel cooldowns, and tab target dot aoe damage, so using them together just doesn't feel good. I wish there was some way to combine those things like most other classes can

[kindred oriole]

What do you mean?

[versed cobalt]

I will take this information and let it marinate

Like I use plater

Let’s say gambit right

Giant trash pull

How TF are u effectively garroting or rupturing

[kindred oriole]

AH

[versed cobalt]

It’s near impossible to tab or swap targets w the nameplates going everywhere

[kindred oriole]

Well no one likes my setup I think.

But I track with weakauras.

[versed cobalt]

Or even like spires

Where some mobs are like 1 meter out of range

[slow marsh]

Good question didn't play kekw

[versed cobalt]

And then u waste empowered garrote

[kindred oriole]

To know 1) if the current target has a rupture, and 2) how many ruptures I have out.

[versed cobalt]

Yeah it’s mainly that I can track that info fine

It’s the actual execution

[bleak sky]

just tab target

idk

[versed cobalt]

Like in my mind I know ok swap and rupture

[kindred oriole]

Yeah I tab target a lot.

[versed cobalt]

Fair

[kindred oriole]

Yeah that's what you are doing wrong Holy

You swap and rupture.

You need to rupture and swap

[versed cobalt]

Huh?

[kindred oriole]

Rupture, then swap and build CP on your next target.

[versed cobalt]

I see

[bleak sky]

legit doesn't matter

[versed cobalt]

I guess positioning could also better

[kindred oriole]

He asked I do it.

That's how I do it.

[bleak sky]

yeah but it's not >wrong<

[versed cobalt]

I’m always like just outside of melee range for some of the mobs lol

Or like keep dancing away

[bleak sky]

just spread bleeds, kill prio, keep ct up, be energy saturated

[versed cobalt]

Cause I have jumpy fingers

And like to move side to side

Feels unnatural to stand still

[kindred oriole]

It's more like my mindset is, once a target has rupture, then it doesn't matter for 24 seconds unless it's priority.

I never move from side to side, but again I guess it legit doesn't matter.

[versed cobalt]

Fair

Sin for raid only lads

Ggs

[kindred oriole]

LOL

Really they should just swap things around. Let us Shadowstrike 5 targets for free and give them 40% dmg on bleeds or something.

[bleak sky]

...why

[kindred oriole]

It's called a joke.

[bleak sky]

[kindred oriole]

_>

[signal pier]

Ngl the sub 4 set can fit neatly with assa

Due to cp gen

U can just spread rupture faster

[thin trout]

share plx

[bleak sun]

With the buff of fok will echoing blade be the go to talents m+ ?

[limber lion]

No

[scenic osprey]

why do ppl dont play sin in MDI compare to sub

i think sin has better ultility in keys

[thin trout]

why dont poeple do double deny them sentences

[bleak sky]

it doesn't

[hexed frost]

Only strong utility is subterfuged garrotes. It's very useful in fortified highkey sanguine, necrotic and spires, but in places like theatre it's meh.

[bleak sun]

Iron wire is stonk for ur tank too but it doesnt appeared on the meter for mitigation

[bleak sky]

it's not that big of a deal

it's just nice to have

[rocky ruin]

+guide

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[lunar otter]

im guessin the fok buff wont do much ? 😦

[balmy condor]

1% overall in m+

[lunar otter]

ye lol

[balmy condor]

INSANE

MASSIVE HUGE OMEGA BUFF

[lunar otter]

LOOK OUT

FOK ME

[balmy condor]

17% behind sub in 6 target

ONLY 17

[timid cloud]

Merely a flesh wound.

[wicked mist]

Hey guys trying to learn rogues

First time playing once serious since vanilla wow

Slice n dice , do assassin rogues keep it up as priority ? Or it’s a meh spell?

I know for sub it’s a MUST

[zinc frost]

You definitely want to keep up snd, but envenom refreshes it. So just cast it at the start of an encounter and you are good to go as long as you refresh it with envenom

[wicked mist]

Ok so rupture then slice n dice then envenom

Or slice n dice first then rupture?

[zinc frost]

I recommend you check out the guides for rotational stuff, just covers the basics.

!guides

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[wicked mist]

Wowhead outdated info, ima use method for sure

Thank you though I appreciate it

[zinc frost]

What’s outdated about it?

[balmy condor]

@wicked mist still waiting to know what’s outdated

[wicked mist]

I forgot it was either wowhead or icy ribs

I can’t remember

[balmy condor]

[wicked mist]

I’m looking at patch 9.1 info I’m like wtf

And this was recent

Maybe icyveijs

[zinc frost]

Noxxic is usually the notoriously outdated stuff or just incorrect info altogether

[wicked mist]

Yeah I can’t remember honestly, it could be noxxic

Grey website looks same to me

[zinc frost]

Wowhead was written by this cute e-boy so must be good quality too

[balmy condor]

This is especially hilarious to me

Because I wrote both

[limber lion]

@balmy condor your guide sucks, Ima just stick to the other one you wrote

[balmy condor]

Damn

[limber lion]

Smh

[balmy condor]

Fucking true

[wicked mist]

I hate icy ribs

Icyveins

On my damn phone website gives issues

Method and wowhead everything works

[subtle tundra]

Maybe write a comprehensive guide on how the buffs will affect our m+ performance?

[limber lion]

[balmy condor]

Already did

[spice spire]

Word count?

[balmy condor]

0

[spice spire]

AMEN

[wicked mist]

So whisper

You made guides for wowhead and method?

Make*

[balmy condor]

I do

[subtle tundra]

Man but my 100 dps increase will for sure make us good!

[wicked mist]

interesting

[subtle tundra]

He is a decent guy

(we now kiss)

[balmy condor]

Pretend I look exactly like my pfp

[spice spire]

You’re coping too hard, you might overdose, king. Please abstain

[tight ginkgo]

[wicked mist]

so slice n dice before rupture

[balmy condor]

Yes

[wicked mist]

Got my answer from your guide

Ty

[balmy condor]

Banger

[zinc frost]

Great guide

[balmy condor]

Did it’s job

[spice spire]

4 am whispyr hit diff

[balmy condor]

That’s why they pay me the big bucks

[spice spire]

Dam

[wicked mist]

You only do rogue?

[spice spire]

This is what I’m missing during the week

[balmy condor]

Correct, I’m the Assassination writer for both

[wicked mist]

Ah ok only assassin

[balmy condor]

Yeah, they have other people doing the other ones

[wicked mist]

ok cool, trying to learn both assassin and sub

[balmy condor]

Fuu for wowhead sub pushnoir for method sub and foreverguy for outlaw for both

[slow marsh]

Hi

[wicked mist]

Ah ok

[balmy condor]

But is aight

I play sub mostly

[spice spire]

Howdy mister iceblades and gn

[balmy condor]

Cause this spec sucks

[wicked mist]

Yeah my bad earlier for saying wowhead, it’s noxxic

[spice spire]

????????

Don’t make me @ Brian homie

[slow marsh]

He's not wrong

[balmy condor]

He knows it sucks too

[slow marsh]

After today I'm done dudes

[balmy condor]

Assassination is the lords of dread spec

Gottem

[wicked mist]

I like assassin though it’s the dot effects are cool

[slow marsh]

I threw my hands up about it

[empty hinge]

so assa rogue is sus

[balmy condor]

Exactly

[slow marsh]

I hard malded and ranted then leveled in classic and decided I'm just playing sub f it

[spice spire]

This channel has been sussy for a while tbf

[balmy condor]

You only play it to be sus

[slow marsh]

What's the point anymore

[spice spire]

Classic

[slow marsh]

I'm having more fun in classic than retail that's how bad sin feels rn

[spice spire]

This is when the OTP buff kicks in

I don’t mind it tbh

[balmy condor]

Did you know sin and outlaw are neck and neck on wcl overall

That’s a Sunday fun fact

[tight ginkgo]

:)

[spice spire]

Like damage numbers

[slow marsh]

And did you know that ww is better than outlaw in st now

[spice spire]

Or player base?

[balmy condor]

Damage numbers

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

At least it was yesterday when I checked

[wicked mist]

Oh gosh Kyrian rogue ability tool tip, so confusing

[slow marsh]

Well hey our 30% fan buff will surely bump us down a spot or two

[balmy condor]

Hit button, your combo point “slots” 2-3-4-5 get empowered, finish on them like a game of whack-a-mole, once each, gg

[slow marsh]

Ww and feral gonna bump us down so we're almost back to 9.0 gaming

[wicked mist]

Oh so if I have two powered

I do 2 combo points of my own

And I get 7 effect

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[wicked mist]

Ah sounds tricky but I get it

[balmy condor]

You finish on the value that’s empowered

So you hit er

It empowers 2-3-4-5

You finish on 2, it’s 7cp

You finish on 4, it’s 7cp

You finish on 3, you get the point

[tight ginkgo]

rogue office space meme to make a triumphant return

[wicked mist]

Oh ok I thought I literally cast the skill and it gives me a random amount then I have to match it

I was about to say lol

[slow marsh]

Sorry ww already above us. Fire mage and feral bumping us down . Maybe even ret pal gets ahead now too

[balmy condor]

It is random but the kyrian lego (and unity) turns it into always 2-3-4-5

Without unity it’s only a single empowered slot

And that’s random

[wicked mist]

Ah ok

Deciding what covenant I want to be when I turn 60

Well 50

[balmy condor]

All of them

[clear finch]

All of em 🤣

Literally

[slow marsh]

Na

Just kyrian venth

[clear finch]

Nah broooooo

[slow marsh]

Since you'll be stuck on sub

[cobalt pelican]

🙄

[wicked mist]

Oh I can switch freely and not have a huge grind?

[clear finch]

I've been rocking Fae Sin pretty decently 🤣 although I'm not a mythic raider so I have free reign

[slow marsh]

I'm hard dooming this spec now ig @spice spire save me

[balmy condor]

Once you get one of them to 80, you can buy a consumable to get the rest to 40

And honestly that’s basically all you need

[spice spire]

Stop being cringe.
It’s fine to be middle of the pack.
If we were always the best rogue spec we’d be no different than the true evil of the world, ranged specs.

[balmy condor]

Obviously empowered conduits and shit with more renown

But all of our conduits kinda blow

So

[wicked mist]

Ahh ok

[spice spire]

That’s My speech

[balmy condor]

You’ll be missing like 120 dps or whatever

Just slow grind it

[clear finch]

Whisp is the advocate for our spec and always talks mad shit about it. I love it.

[balmy condor]

No reason to push it giga hard

[balmy condor]

My logic is that if you don’t complain it won’t get better

[wicked mist]

What’s wrong with assassin? Opinions pls

I thought it’s go to spec

[clear finch]

It's not Sub

[balmy condor]

No one ever recovered from cancer by saying “nah I’ll be aight”

[cobalt pelican]

can't believe an ORANGE person just equated playing assassination to having cancer

unacceptable

[balmy condor]

Sin has no niche atm except 2 target. It struggles in aoe, it struggles to funnel, the single target is worse than sub

[slow marsh]

And the other underperforming specs are getting decent buffs while we get a 30% buff to fan

[balmy condor]

The only arguments you can make for sin is “it’s better in 2-3 target so it’s good on dreadlords” and “I want to play it”

[wicked mist]

Shit that’s true , I was leveling and noticed I do way more work AOE with assassin

[umbral rapids]

Close to sub though no?

[balmy condor]

Close to sub on what

[umbral rapids]

On st

[wicked mist]

Sub rogue does knives and black power two button easy down right

[balmy condor]

On st? Kinda not really

[wicked mist]

So sub is now the go to pvp spec oh shit

[balmy condor]

Sin is better in pvp I think

But I don’t pvp often

[ancient rain]

I just hope the 30% FoK buff will make Hidden Blades the best st talent

[cobalt pelican]

you can play both

depends on comp and how crong you are

[balmy condor]

It’s 400 down on skolex, and sub is obviously better on Halondrus by more than that

So

[stiff garden]

Outlaw bis pvp now

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

🛑

[wicked mist]

The issue I have with sub is is I fuck up my shadow dance then I know I goofed hard

[balmy condor]

Idk how close it means to say “close”

[umbral rapids]

Alright

[balmy condor]

Yeah just checked

It’s almost 1k on halondrus

Over 1k on heroic

[wicked mist]

I want to do outlaw rogue but roll the bones F thy

F that, I hate that random BS

[balmy condor]

Sub tier is more rng

So

If that’s not your jive

Sub’s downside atm is it’s one of the most rng specs in the game

[wicked mist]

I don’t like roll the bones picking my buffs though

[cobalt pelican]

statistics will always kinda be warped more aggressively in favor of the better spec though

[balmy condor]

But if you look past that rng

[umbral rapids]

Yeah halondrus is different…

[cobalt pelican]

like it's mostly only boomers and poop brains playing sin still

[balmy condor]

Yeah but it’s also cracked sin players like cev and seli and ice and oxi

[wicked mist]

I don’t mind RNG kind of like elemental shaman and that maelstrom talent

But when you pick my buff from a pool and it’s random, you got me geeked up

[balmy condor]

Idk how much the sway is on logs for good specs everyone plays vs bad specs that otp’s play

[wicked mist]

Fuked*

[balmy condor]

It’s hard to pin that down

[subtle tundra]

ok

[stiff garden]

RtB rng isnt bad since we have CtO

[subtle tundra]

our relationship is over. pack your stuff

[stiff garden]

Getting bad rolls wont kill your dps

[balmy condor]

I was beginning to wonder where you were

[subtle tundra]

im just here, collecting Ls

[stiff garden]

Whispyr why are you so fkng cute

[balmy condor]

Idk bruh I guess just genetics n shit

[lunar otter]

with cacheguys whats best one to get the axe for bleed?

[pseudo hamlet]

We still prioritize Envenom in the TB window during ST? Even with 2/4PC?

[steel ridge]

shiv buffs CT aswell

[zinc frost]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[limber lion]

Pretty sure my parse is higher than any of the sub rogues :')

Jk there's new cracked parses, assa is trash lmao

Cheaters

[pseudo hamlet]

So, CT is also used during the TB? Good to know!

[steel ridge]

not quite sure, you want to maximize CT uptime, but no idea about envenom uptime

[vestal wren]

but you play subtlety to my knowlage

cev plays assassination tho, he might have the highest parse

[untold mortar]

but private log

[frosty cedar]

sin is big poggers no cap vent tech op

[karmic crystal]

That’s the power of actually useful spec legendaries

And a lot of fight timings work for assassination pretty well

[vestal wren]

it is not the power of spec legendary items

it is the power of a problematic interaction that was left in as a design choice

that conveniently works rly well with one of the legendary powers

[shrewd iron]

i thought u always synced vendetta with flag? but looking at the assassination faq i see this '' generally you can sync every other flag to a vendetta'' so ig u sync every other flag to vendetta now?

[peak bobcat]

With 4P and dusk you sync every one

Holding vendetta for flag every time

[shrewd iron]

ok i see, thanks!

[brazen zodiac]

good morning

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor

[viscid spear]

Full Send after holding for them all to be up

[unborn olive]

Hello guys in m+ When im multi dotting i often get to a point where SnD is about to run out and im struggling to make a decision wether i envenom to extend SnD or Keep dotting
Also do we Use shaded sharpening stones as sin?

[bleak sky]

envenom to refresh snd

stones, yes

[unborn olive]

Tanks a lot

[lyric crater]

so bis raid is vamp or NF im 3/5 on T want to make sure once i get 4set i pick the right one

[vestal wren]

venthyr has a theoretical higher output

nf is however more comfortable to play

and not that far behind

necro is the best for multi target

[lyric crater]

really how comfortable havnt play it much i see it really good in pvp once u have 4 set

on postive note fan of knife geting a 30% buff to damage i saw on post yesurday

[bleak sky]

useless buff

[lyric crater]

better then nothing aoe sucks as is haha

qustion is pb better in tyr weeks? i feel it might

[subtle tundra]

LMAO

no.

[lyric crater]

damn lol my mind said yes but my gut said hell no lol

[subtle tundra]

assa aoe is already so extremely bad you cant play without the main aoe ability

[limber lion]

Fuu doesn't even play the spec.

But you always go Necro on Lords

:')

[bleak sky]

Oh look it's ceverion

been missing for the past few days, we had a weird new green guy

[ebon notch]

what was his name? Brain?

[bleak sky]

something like that, ye

[brazen zodiac]

brian missing? cev back? something seems awfully fishy here

[sonic schooner]

Did anyone seen bryan and ceverion in the same room together?

[gusty mirage]

[river frost]

@frosty cedar gratz to rank 1

[frosty cedar]

doesnt count got externals

[river frost]

[spice spire]

AMEN

Ethical gaming only

[frosty cedar]

• heroic + public log only kinda weak man

[thick sable]

Yeah, unfortunately while the 30% sounds good, what we really need is the CP generation.

[verbal radish]

With 4piece and new leg, what's the approximate vendetta cooldown?

[limber lion]

50-55s

[verbal radish]

If playing with subt/NF, would you hold anything to sync with vanish on every other vendetta?

[limber lion]

You should have Shiv for every Vendetta window

But that's about it

You send Sepsis/Vendetta on cooldown and Shiv together with cds whenever possible

[verbal radish]

Thank you. And Vanish/Subterfuge?

[limber lion]

You just use it normally with the Vendetta windows

together with the Shiv that you should be using there as well

[verbal radish]

Won't they be off their 2 minute sync by about 10 to 20 seconds? You just catch it at any point I take it during vendetta window no aim to hold and direct sync?

[limber lion]

You do do some syncing up because you want to Sync every other Sepsis

We play the spec in 1 minute intervals, even if Vendetta is up 5-10s prior

[verbal radish]

Gotcha. Cool thank you for answering my questions.

[limber lion]

Same goes for Venthyr and Flagellation, except there you sync every single cast

No worries

[wide ridge]

fok buff.. huh

better than nothing i guess

[vestal wren]

small damage increase in dungeons

not super bad

(tho its more a joke because its like 1% dps in dungeon slice, if even)

[winter vapor]

do we hold vend for heroic Pantheon for after adds or?

only got 2 piece rn

[limber lion]

No

Send it on pull

[winter vapor]

thanks Cev

[viscid spear]

I should ask Quake for tips on Necro Zoldyck next time we do HC Panth

[solid venture]

got r1 on heroic skolex pog me

[limber lion]

gz

[bleak sky]

yuuge

[limber lion]

[bleak sky]

external abuser smh my head

[solid venture]

hell no brother

private logging

[bleak sky]

oh

private sadgers

[scenic kelp]

is faulty countermeasure nerfed and not good anymore?

[bleak sky]

if it sims well for you, use it

else, don't

[limber lion]

good lad.

[solid venture]

pretty sure you've done more than that though :p

wouldn't surprise me at all

[limber lion]

Nah, I haven't touched non-tier bosses on heroic in like 2+ weeks

Def got me beat

[ebon notch]

was it natty?

[solid venture]

am i running into a deez nuts joke here

[bleak sky]

no

natty = no externals

[solid venture]

ah xD

im clean af boii

dont need drugs to perform

[silent tinsel]

Just put of curiosity, could assa apply banshees blight with one dagger then swap out to normal daggers?

Or do you need 2 and of the item is completely gone the debuff goes too?

[fleet whale]

So i figured out the new M+ "meta" after this FoK buff:
Run hidden blades + Poison Katar conduit+ General Draven soulbind
gonna be op /s

[craggy oak]

no

or you memeing?

[fleet whale]

yeah, hence we i put /s at the end

[violet hemlock]

Just cause u understand what /s means doesnt mean everyone does.

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[winter vapor]

is Necro reasonble on heroic Lihivum?

[stable apex]

you forgot the part where you specc to sub

[subtle tundra]

no he didnt

because he was ironic

you cant ironically swap to sub

[slow marsh]

Yes

If adds, Necro is more than reasonable

[tribal spear]

is the suggestion from the assa guide here to play NF ST outdated? i checkd the mythic logs and everybody is playing VENT

[zenith yarrow]

Should I still aim for haste and crit for ST?

[zinc frost]

Check the latest pin, it explains everything

[tribal spear]

thank you

[violet jackal]

It doesn’t explain that mastery is your new best friend after 4 piece

[obtuse robin]

my two best stats atm r crit and mastery

[pure moth]

Weird. But if sims say so, then so be it.

[heavy skiff]

do u line up vend and flag every time? or just send it?

[wide bolt]

use them on CD unless your not goign to get an additional use

[heavy skiff]

yea srue but it feels weird, missing like 6 - 10 sec on flag cd when vendetta is up

maybe im just bad and need to get more flag stacks

[zenith yarrow]

When is it safe to refresh my bleeds while in vendetta with 4 pieces?

Do I still refresh rupture à <7.2sec?

or <3.6sec?

[pure moth]

In vendetta its 3.6

[zenith yarrow]

tyty

[oak sky]

with 4p double leggo yes

[leaden finch]

hi for mythic plus is better heimir or marileth?

[oak sky]

marileth

[normal mist]

We still stacking haste crit even at 4set right? Just to be sure I'm gearing right

[slow marsh]

whatever top gear says

[glass tulip]

agreon and ib on fire rn

[viscid spear]

[balmy condor]

M..mastery?

[viscid spear]

Armor Pen
Makes it's return in Dragonflight

[pure moth]

Really

[proud salmon]

do you ever press ambush?

[viscid spear]

||No||

[balmy condor]

Yep

With sepsis, or subt

[proud salmon]

but you also have to be able to mutilate from stealth right? just trying to sort out binds so it's kinda awkward

ty tho

[balmy condor]

Mut from stealth with MA

I honestly suggest just getting rid of stealth bar

Having your bar swap back and forth is just annoying

And on sub it’s an actual hinderance

[proud salmon]

fair

[viscid spear]

Subtlety

[balmy condor]

Need a spec to play on lords of dread

And then a spec to play on everything else

[viscid spear]

Kyrian though

[oak sky]

wish i had the fire in game

the sauce

the extra

the je ne sais quoi

the tier set

[slow marsh]

trade you mine

[oak sky]

at this point i think i would rather have gold than tier

[strange python]

I feel like even with mfd and energy pooling I'm only hitting 25-28 stacks every flag

[obtuse robin]

thats normal

[strange python]

Our other rogue says he's 28-30 every time

[obtuse robin]

is he sub

[hybrid sage]

Can we soak Rygelon soak with cloak?

[oak sky]

ngl with vendetta every time it shouldnt be extremely difficult to hit 28-30 at least most of the time

[obtuse robin]

the big blue orb? yea ur supposed to

[pure bridge]

Lust and some timely crits from MA, its very likely.

[obtuse robin]

in ven sure

but homie said everytime

[pure bridge]

Yeah' thatd require many things to go right.

[strange python]

Genuinely not sure. I've been in 25-28 range

[strange python]

Every flag is with vend now

[pure bridge]

Its MA and the near guaranteed crits where I can see 28-30, but every other flag will be without.

[obtuse robin]

do you both have 4pc

[lunar otter]

Will we see assa in mythic logs or still behind ?

[rapid prism]

if im using the first sigil and IQD as my trinkets. What would be the better one to use in the opener? Can i sim for this? Venthyr bleed build

[oak sky]

Put each one in the first slot on raidbots

It should use that one first

Then you can compare them

[rapid prism]

interesting ok thank you

[oak sky]

Probably, sin should be capable of doing very close dps to sub, its personal preference at this point

Like within 50ish

[lunar otter]

Yeah i see the sims just not showing up in logs , or is it all the private sadges like me ahha altho i dont do mythic yet :( not even 4pc

Just a 2pc chad

[oak sky]

Theres a lot of private logs yeah

I dont have my 4p yet either ive been very unlucky

[lunar otter]

Sad bros :(

[oak sky]

I should either get it today or reset day

[lunar otter]

I wish u the rng gods my homie

[oak sky]

Thanks

[peak bobcat]

I believe in you agreon

[oak sky]

I dont brk

Bro

[strange python]

Sin also catches up with more gear, since sub won't replace main hand till higher ilvls, and doesn't replace offhand

So in early prog there's an argument for sub that's stronger. Also all pre-double leggo was favored for sub

[oak sky]

Early prog is over

Nothing matters anymore

[strange python]

I mean sure, but he was asking about logs

The first 3 weeks were heavily sub favored

So a lot of logs will be skewed that way

[hollow river]

I mean even now with double legendaries etc sub is doing more damage

Still sims over 1k more than sin for me

Early prog or not that’s a big difference

[strange python]

Yeah it'll depend on your gear.

Sin is simming within 500 of sub for me now and I could optimize that with some m+ target farming

But I'm really tired of playing sub on halondrus and waiting 85 minutes for a dispell during symbols.

[hollow river]

Just don’t run off boss until symbols is over/almost over

[strange python]

They're yelling at people who don't get out ASAP

[hollow river]

Hmm

I mean you can cloak it off yourself

So that doesn’t make a lot of sense

[strange python]

Tracking it for reclaim since our ranged refuse to soak motes

Need it in case it comes through a planetcracker

[hollow river]

Ahh

Why are the ranged refusing

To do the mechanics

[strange python]

Because ranged think halondrus is an easy melee and hard ranged fight

Because ranged players are privileged babies who have never had to do mechanics before

[hollow river]

Sounds like ego

[strange python]

Ranged players get Painsmith Chains and Halondrus Bombs and panic

[hollow river]

Are you swapping bombs at all

[strange python]

I'm filling in when one of them does

Dies

So...yes. Every pull.

[hollow river]

Idk how we’re going to do it

[viscid spear]

I've played both ranged and melee on Hal

||And I agree||

[hollow river]

We started on pantheon this week and I’m out for it so I’m just in Halondrus waiting room

[cloud nacelle]

Are there any videos/twitch of a sin rogue playing either NF or "new" venthyr build?

[strange python]

Also yeah this shit is cooked, I'm getting 27 stacks of flag in opener even with vanish and mfd

Are y'all holding till max energy before first rupture? Cause even with belf racial I'm just twiddling my thumbs for garrote energy

[obtuse robin]

again thats normal

are u flaggin with no energy

impossible with opener

so nvm

unless

[strange python]

I mean I'm not trying to settle for normal. If people are routinely hitting 30 I want to be hitting 30.

After I sit around idling for garrote energy I'm flagging with 60 ish and not feeling starved but I'm still not hitting 30. Not sure what I could do without just slamming a finisher after every Mut regardless of crit

[obtuse robin]

brother

30 stacks everytime is not normal

25-28 is normal

ur rogue friend is lieing

or he is sub

ill even qoute whispyr

"It’s actually incredibly difficult to get 30 stack flags"

[strange python]

P sure agreon said 28-30 was more normal as well

[obtuse robin]

28 and 30 are not the same

i know they seem close

[oak sky]

you definitely get lower stacks sometimes

i wasnt trying to say you should always get 28

[strange python]

I mean if people are hitting 28 on non-vanish ones and I'm hitting 24 I wanna troubleshoot.

[potent dagger]

Depends on your crit basicaly

[safe barn]

damn

i bet all of this parses are from agreon and cev

seli and whisp too

[potent dagger]

i'm kinda surprise no one speaks about that

[safe barn]

it was talked about it

[limber swallow]

no one talks about things that won't make a difference.

[safe barn]

and it doesnt matter

[potent dagger]

Ha missed it ^^

Every up as little as it is , is good to have ^^

[glass tulip]

I normally am getting 27-29 by not using MFD in MA window

vanish mut env mut env mfd env

[ebon notch]

Getting 30 is literally rng on hitting back to back to back 4cp mutilates @strange python

[glass tulip]

is how I do flag stacks for opener, only way im consistently getting that close to 30

[ebon notch]

Instead of focusing on something out of your control focus on things that actually make you play better

Missing 3 stacks of flag on an opener doesn't make you do 1k more DPS

[balmy condor]

rank 52 all stars sin yep

I'm flexing

higher rank than my sub

who the fuck still plays this spec bro on god

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor I'm being guilt tripped off of assa on halondrus

[balmy condor]

good

why would you play sin on halondrus

that sounds miserable

knowing you're legit 1k behind for free

[limber swallow]

30% FOK damage buff will surely fix it.

[balmy condor]

like

on heroic where theres actual sin parses

its a blood bath

it's top 4

but I mean

is it really