assassination

[oak sky]

Ambush

[split grail]

Hmm...do we open with ambush as NF?

[oak sky]

Gar snd ambush mut rupture sepsis vendetta shiv etc

[split grail]

thanks

[fleet whale]

What's "robber in liquidation" suppose to mean? lol

and shouldn't outlaw be called "casino Royale"

[ashen scroll]

should I not macro ambush into mut? im going through logs and im not seeing ambushs used, playing venth dusk

[fleet whale]

I think ambush is a dead button if you are not running blindside

[balmy condor]

im offended you don't know the immortal meme

[fleet whale]

Lol i wonder what language he's translating from

[marble hemlock]

Ah yes, the good ol times

[ebon notch]

venth dusk there is no point where you can even press ambush

[brazen zodiac]

apparently im talking to brian

no brian!

[stark pier]

hey...to be clear...when i have 10+ mobs around me and i have the 2 pieces bonus....i use crimson tempest just for the dot and spam other abilitys with the cp ?

[zinc frost]

Yeah just keep CT up as a dot, refresh when needed

[sonic schooner]

just never spam CT, only keeping the dot up

[slow marsh]

In line with my signature ravenholdt trait, you CAN spam CT at 8+ targets for a very minimal gain

[slow marsh]

Na you still press it if playing subt and on st/already have snd up

[obtuse robin]

so double checking we dont let bleeds effected by ven fall off after ven expires right?

[balmy condor]

You let them expire

Don’t overwrite empowered bleeds

[gray fjord]

You'd probably know, @balmy condor - I mentioned a couple days ago I'd be dicking around with NF assassination in raid and have done pretty decent so far- Is it worth putting a lesser combo point rupture out right before vendetta falls off, or is the gain negligible?

[balmy condor]

Isn’t really that relevant

If it lines up like that great

If it doesn’t, whatever

[gray fjord]

Gotcha, I kinda figured not but wasn't sure if like a 4CP rupture getting in at the last second of vendetta was worth it or just to roll like normal after

I know heroic parses are pretty meaningless but even without great trinkets that NF is doing pretty solid so far.

[balmy condor]

It is

And it’s 300% less cringe than venth

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

Or your money back

[gray fjord]

I definitely think it flows very naturally outside of holding shiv a couple seconds and that's what I was really looking for if I was going to play assassination in raid over outlaw.

The only fight I have been kinda put off on it so far is Lihuvim because my group does like 0 DPS so I never have anything up when the first add phase is triggering

[balmy condor]

Play korayn on it

Pog

[gray fjord]

I'll have to keep that in mind and set up Korayn too. I should've for Vigilant Guardian as well but that barely counts as a fight xD

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor is there a way to compare multiple cast timelines from different logs?

for example looking at openers from 2 different fights on the same boss but same person

[balmy condor]

Yeh korayn uptime on lithium is actually dumb

[balmy condor]

Not across same person

You can try to pull up the same log using the url

Through the compare tab

And see if it lets you

[ebon notch]

wait what do you mean by this

[balmy condor]

Like you can compare 2 people to each other in the same log

But not the same person twice

[ebon notch]

thats super weird that i can compare two different people but not myself twice

like all the interface is there

all the options and everything are fine

but it just doesnt let you select it

[balmy condor]

Ye

[ebon notch]

nvm you actually can

you just have your name listed twice

one for each report

i just wasnt looking for it so i couldnt find it

cast timelines dont work but other stuff seems to

[solar stump]

just have your leader spam ping "leave the adds and go stand on boss till they get there" 6 times and you should be fine 🙂

[glass tulip]

guys my brain hurts

what is this shit @gray fjord @balmy condor

too much to handle today

[balmy condor]

You can’t handle 7 whole bananas?

[glass tulip]

[slow marsh]

poor guy

[gray fjord]

i mean, i'm not sure i undertand what the problem is

[oak sky]

robber of liquidation

[balmy condor]

Jiggs up outlaw

[gray fjord]

I'm not sure what you mean, I'm pretty sure you just were on a bender for like 24 hours

[balmy condor]

put em where my sun don't shine I mean where your I mean my your finger in my where I sun and the shining and I uhm daddy sorry I mean put em on me sorry on my hood and pop my trunk I mean sorry the trunk of my hood I mean put em up my I mean your sorry uh I mean stick em up in the I mean

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

d...dis is a wobewy

[gray fjord]

To be fair I did a number on your reputation by actually commenting in #outlaw so I guess this is fair.

[thorn prism]

yeah.. whispyr was finally cool for once

had the correct opinions

[gray fjord]

I always knew I liked you Maya

xD

[thorn prism]

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

[thorn prism]

woah there no need for violence

not in my rogue discord

[balmy condor]

Im boutta will smith in this bitch

[gray fjord]

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

he resigned its okay

[thorn prism]

o: d:

^ that’s my chris rock face

[balmy condor]

🪨

really I don't have a blacksmith emote

I am

very disappointed by this

[gray fjord]

In shambles

This is what happens when you become 7 whole banana for a day

[balmy condor]

I'm in 143 discord servers

and I have 0 blacksmith emotes

[thorn prism]

this is the best I have

[gray fjord]

🪦

[thorn prism]

I’ll put him up for adoption

[gray fjord]

It's time.

On a slightly more serious note- when you getting Wonderlands, Whispyr >:[

[balmy condor]

DO YOU SEE HOW MANY GOD DAMN KEKWS I HAVE

I HAVE

AN ENDLESS SUPPLY

OF KEKW

[gray fjord]

No blacksmith tho

[balmy condor]

NOT ONE BLACKSMITH

[gray fjord]

You are fried

[oak sky]

how nice im stuck with this one

[thorn prism]

it’s an abomination

the entire discord must be purged

[balmy condor]

I got this shit

BUT NOT A BLACKSMITH

[oak sky]

i remember when they made obama into everything

that was pog

[gray fjord]

That was a prime age for memes

Vintage, at this point.

[balmy condor]

the prime age for memes were rage comics

cmon

le epic troll

[gray fjord]

Oh I mean that's like the predecessor of memery, yes for sure.

Like origin story 100%

[balmy condor]

better story than morbius

[oak sky]

im trying to remember the other obama stuff

there was probably a car

[balmy condor]

obamium

[gray fjord]

I feel like 50% of it was illumanti-related

[balmy condor]

the rarest metal of all

[thorn prism]

This is the best emote I have

Very versatile

[oak sky]

illuminati confirmed lol

[gray fjord]

I don't have that many custom ones, but I like the tin-foil hat.

Just because. xD

[balmy condor]

I will share with you the rarest emote in the world

Looking at it is illegal

[gray fjord]

[balmy condor]

[gray fjord]

[thorn prism]

this is mine now

[gray fjord]

Damn just straight up NFT'd that shit

Now it's value is like half a pretzel instead of a whole one.

[balmy condor]

It’s value drops in half the moment you post it

It’s like a car

[gray fjord]

[placid dawn]

for the cache trinket we always go for axe right?

[echo geyser]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[placid dawn]

thanks

[steel ridge]

🤯

[glass tulip]

143 servers, still no bitches

[oak sky]

whispyr <Bitch Haver>

[balmy condor]

Cry about it

[limber lion]

Bird girl

[oak sky]

hey brian whats good

[glass tulip]

calling your gf a bitch

weirdchamp

[bronze pike]

love your hair whispyr

[balmy condor]

She’s like that

[balmy condor]

Ty

[glass tulip]

oof

I mean she does let you hang out with us all day

so that's a plus

[balmy condor]

She works like 12-14 hours a day sometimes

[subtle tundra]

dude, i just woke up from a dream where i was so happy

fuck you

and no, assa wasnt meta

[slow marsh]

but was it good

[subtle tundra]

yes, it was on par with sub

[balmy condor]

Why aren’t you happy now

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/foss-no-bitches-no-hoes-0bitches-no-gif-24529727

[spice spire]

Maidenless,

[thorn prism]

Unironically tho you both look very cute

[balmy condor]

Ty

[uneven summit]

In the vendetta windows, whats the general consensus, reapply dots as soon as they run out, all of them including CT. Thats what im doing but pins writes: "reapply toward the END of vendetta" just wanna make sure to get the optimal out of it all :-)

[rotund oak]

👌 💪

[balmy condor]

Yeah like 3-4 seconds before vend runs out just reapply rup and gar

[drifting cosmos]

guys how are sin doing m+ atm with 4p

still waiting on crafting to get tier

[subtle tundra]

Once you get 4p you kinda press activate specialization on sub

[drifting cosmos]

i figure that might be the case

i think sub is prob better even without EON/raid on use trinkets

overall wise

[zinc frost]

Now imagine if 4pc affected all mobs with bleeds in 15 yards

[drifting imp]

Or U get depression like me because you continue to play sin in keys

[drifting cosmos]

🤔 that'd be giga

how are you doing in keys anyway

lower on overall but slap in boss dmg?

[subtle tundra]

You hate your life is rupture would be like 14 seconds on the mobs you just applied to

Ct would be 5 sec

You wouldnt have time to envenom for snd

[drifting cosmos]

at one stage i was just hoping ct dmg can carry over

so we spam ct in aoe

[subtle tundra]

Nah

[drifting imp]

Nah I mean it's enough and stuff but it still doesn't feel good

[zinc frost]

We already hate life in higher keys as sin

[drifting cosmos]

cos with this 4p + 2lego, top tier meta specs and bottom tier specs in keys can be hugely different in overall

[drifting imp]

I just wanna have the feeling for once in keys that I'm not throwing for playing sin over sub/outlul

[drifting cosmos]

heard outlul is bad in keys

[drifting imp]

Yeah I mean back when outlaw was meta before sub took its crown and blizz decided it's outlaws time at the side of the road now

[drifting cosmos]

well outlul shine for most of bfa and early SL

that's a long time

[drifting imp]

Yes

[drifting cosmos]

like sin was doing ok ish in bfa

but sl.. lul

[drifting imp]

Good time for them :)

[subtle tundra]

Sin was doing big dmg in m+ bfa

[drifting imp]

I miss echoing Blades and shrouded suffocation

[drifting cosmos]

like even in legion, i didnt mind pb so much cos it did so much dmg

[zinc frost]

https://youtu.be/6-wINzrcgMM

It’s over dude

[real bay]

its over 40k dps dude bro

[drifting imp]

I never played with exsanguinate back then because I was trash :)

[real bay]

EB SS enjoyers

[drifting imp]

I mean I'm still trash but maybe a bit less trash because I joined this discord

[subtle tundra]

It was only good in s1 and s4, s1 I wasnt a good player and s4 I stopped playing rogue after prog

Corruption vendor was added way too late :)

[drifting cosmos]

yea agree

consider it had rotations

[rotund oak]

exsang assa with stacked haste did insane openers in raids as well,it was massive

there were stronger classes for dps but once mastered,assa was bitting average mages easy

[drifting imp]

True

[subtle tundra]

Thinking about 8.3 always makes me hate cp Gen. If you want to get any other stat than crit in m+, it becomes miserable. Hope they rework it

[zinc frost]

Going from storm to FoK in keys is actually depressing

[timid cloud]

Just simply make FOK give CP based off of targets hit, & then still have sealed fate. So it’s worthwhile to hit in lower target counts…

[subtle tundra]

No

That's subs thing man... And it's boring af

[winter gale]

Morning ppl. Is Dashing leggo better before 2set or 4set?

I have one piece and I dont know is it a waste to craft Dashing or Duskawalkers straight.

Will I have maybe use of Dashing for PVP, mythic+ or its a waste of g?

[normal mist]

dashing pvp

oof.

just no

if you pvping aswell, doomblade is an okay option for both

duskwalker is BiS at 4/4, i already use it at 2/4 in ST fights

[winter gale]

No no, I have no clue for its purpose outside of pve, I was just asking as I dont know is it stupid to make it for such a short period of time. But I counted my bad rng in and I just crafted it anyways. In pins I saw it says its good until 4piece so I guess I still have time for it.

[proven river]

how does sin compare to sub in pve? Wanted to play Sin, but I;m not sure if its competitive or not

[glass tulip]

It is competitive in raid, less so in high m+, is the answer you're looking for

Play which spec you like more

[floral dome]

Do you still run CT for dread lords now that they changed AOE damage to all damage is increased by 100%? the bosses mainly stack on that fight no? wouldn't poison bomb be better now?

[glass tulip]

the extra bleed is much better than PB, getting the most uptime you can on garrote/rup/CT on both targets will far far far outweigh the small % of damage PB does

[floral dome]

Cool, thanks!

[timid cloud]

Subjective, the difference last time I heard the numbers guys say was not really that much. Less than 200, IIRC. Just comes down to playing what you want & what you’re good at.

My friend Brian beats good Sub players on Sin.

[proven river]

Im trying to determine the best way to balance it between raid and M+, because i really have next to no idea how sin performs in a +

[timid cloud]

It’s more work, for less numbers.

[proven river]

seems about right

[uneven summit]

But don´t you reapply in the window, aswell?

[limber lion]

No, you just let all your bleeds and poisons drop, essentially ruining the entire Vendetta window

[glass tulip]

YEP coke

Always keep applying or go play outlaw

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

man assa necro feels horrible.

just a constant fight to keep snd up

(in m+)

[limber lion]

Lmao

L2p

You should have 50+ seconds off it when you start a pack

Shouldn't be too bad even in your +30's

[ebon notch]

It's not like you were spamming envenom in s2 right

If anything you have more cp now due to death spike

[subtle tundra]

in st i mean

with ds

[brazen zodiac]

actually God's toughest battle

[subtle tundra]

wait

who

tf

is brian

and why is he flaming me

ok not ok

[ebon notch]

brian da goat

[limber lion]

???

How does being Necro make it harder

It literally makes it easier when you have an wxtra generator

Lmaooo

[subtle tundra]

cause i have to keep up ct

brother man

[misty holly]

In single target CT is only worth 50dps over PB for me.

[peak bobcat]

That’s 50 dps

Sounds good to me

[limber lion]

But you do that with every covenant in m+ heh

Shouldn't be a problem

You can do it

Brian believes in you

[subtle tundra]

only reason i played assa was that we needed a necro

(we wiped on xav anyways)

[next dune]

Do we care much about diminishing returns on crit? Or whats a good crit % to shoot for?

[subtle tundra]

whatever the sim gods tell you, only those know (amen 🙏 )

[next dune]

Yeah i suppose it varies. Sim yoself as usual heh

[limber lion]

There are no answers to any stat questions

It varies

Depends on the profile

Just sim

No soft caps, no hardcaps, nothing

[peak bobcat]

Brian is so based

[subtle tundra]

holy fuck i forgot to swap my gear from assa to sub and we went to 26

like that

duskwalker sub anyone?

and no way i notice since whenever i do low dps on sub i blame it on casino spec no proc

[brazen zodiac]

@limber lion why is everything autocorrecting to Brian! in my phone

im scared

[gusty mirage]

Brian is your new overlord

Brian is love. Brian is life.

[ebon notch]

XD

[misty holly]

CT is nice because many fights are multitarget and there is a lot of value there. But for pure single target like halondrus I still go poison bomb.

A small mistake could erase a gain like 50dps

I think there is a lot of value to keepnig things simple and impossible to fuck up.

you can't fuck up a passive. Adding a whole new finisher to the rotation definitely can be.

[ebon notch]

this is kind of a weird way to look at it

especially considering the rng of poison bomb procs

what if you get unlucky? how much of a dps loss is it then

at least CT is consistent

[misty holly]

I know I'm just bad, but I find a lot of things can go wrong trying to weave CT in on single target.

They aren't major things, but they are things that never happen otherwise

rupture drops

or snd drops

Now maybe CT is still worth it

but those kind of things eat into that 50 dps pretty fast

[sinful cradle]

then dont let them dro

p

drop ct keep other prio bleeds up

envenom when snd about to drop

[subtle tundra]

what if- hear me out

they removed snd?

omg

im a genius!

[sinful cradle]

remove snd buff bleeds

[frigid sleet]

are you supposed to refresh bleeds before the end of vendetta and then refresh them at the latest cause they're "empowered" ?

[real bay]

buff damager

[limber lion]

Yes, refresh at 0-1s after Vend.

@kindred rapids explain yourself.

[kindred rapids]

Not sure if you mean refreshing after the cast or after it expires but either way it's wrong

[limber lion]

??

[kindred rapids]

During vendetta you refresh as normal then try to refresh again within a couple seconds of vendetta expiring

[limber lion]

No shit

[kindred rapids]

Not after

[limber lion]

Might want to read the sentence again

And the question that was asked

[kindred rapids]

0-1s after vendetta

Doesn't make sense

However you parse it

[limber lion]

....

[frigid sleet]

I have to admit that it got me a bit confused. But the right play is right before vendetta ends you refresh your bleeds and then let them run out cause empowered ?

[limber lion]

Yoy refresh the bleed

At 0-1s remaining

[frigid sleet]

alrighty

[limber lion]

After the vendetta has expired

Vendetta has ended

Garrote has 1s remaining

You reapply it

Rupture deops, you reapply it

[frigid sleet]

ok i'm confused again then

[limber lion]

Correct

You reapply just before Vendetta ends

[frigid sleet]

right !

[limber lion]

And you reapply them both just before they drop

At 0-1s remaining

[brazen zodiac]

4pc gaming pog

good morning brian!

[frigid sleet]

thanks, I think I got it

[kindred rapids]

Gotcha ideally you refresh the empowered bleeds as they fall off. It was just the way you phrased it.

[frigid sleet]

is it worth refreshing them way before pandemic window ?

[limber lion]

At the end of Vendetta, yes

[limber lion]

You might have to think who you're talking to next time.

[frigid sleet]

aight perfect thanks, I supose ideally you refresh all 3 ?

[limber lion]

Sure, CT not that important

[kindred rapids]

Don't you know who I am??

[frigid sleet]

amazing

[real bay]

amazinga

[kindred rapids]

Just saying the phrasing was very ambiguous.

[limber lion]

Funny how you question me, man is on a roll recently

I forgot everyone here is a native English speaker

[kindred rapids]

It's not an attack on you to point out what you said could be misinterpreted

He even said he was confused by it

Not everything needs to be taken personally

[hallow summit]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Crit >= Haste > Vers > Mastery
Note: Having a frost set equipped makes crit much better, usually making it your best stat by a good margin.

[hallow summit]

still crit haste i guess?

[bleak sky]

yes

[hallow summit]

dope!

[bleak sky]

sim everyything though

[hallow summit]

yessir, was just about to make a leggy

[quaint sequoia]

how do I use cache?

[vestal wren]

!cache

[prisma monolith]

Cache of Acquired Treasures usage:
Axe is always the strongest weapon.
Note: The Weapon rotates every 12 seconds in the order Sword -> Axe -> Wand

[tired falcon]

Question, opening in aoe with max cp, and with snd, do I black powder?

Ops wrong channel

[versed cobalt]

How much of a DPs loss is not running CT on single target

W 4 peace?

[storm belfry]

[frosty cedar]

sim still isnt using the vent mfd tech right?

[balmy condor]

It is

[frosty cedar]

mine seems to use it later in the flag, using nightly

[ebon notch]

yeah thats not right

[brazen zodiac]

wtf

[ebon notch]

cev did say there were a few more tweaks that koji had to update

so i guess the mfd ct before vend is one of them

[brazen zodiac]

hi daps!

[ebon notch]

uwu

hello

[fleet anchor]

I mean honestly it doesn't really matter when you use MfD as long as it's within Flag.

[ebon notch]

i thought the tech was to get the 10 stacks and snapshot it with vendetta

surely missing out on 5 stacks would have some effect on your in vendetta dps

[fleet anchor]

I mean in this case I don

don't think it's running CT anyway which is not quite gonna match up either way

Most of Cev's working changes were related to CT usage

Not the non-CT rotation

[bleak sky]

it's running CT just does it much later on

[fleet anchor]

But the recommended opener is in the pins. I'm just mentioning it doesn't particularly matter too much what the sims are doing. The DPS difference is minimal, but the pins represent probably the best opener to attempt to execute.

[bleak sky]

yep yep

[ebon notch]

phantom fire

[bleak sky]

I just run simc defaults, cba changing those

[fleet anchor]

I think all of Cev's changes combined (like 2-3 different things) are only a 0.7% DPS difference which is why I've been taking a bit of time to test some stuff. Some of the changes were DPS losses with other configurations so I need to find some conditions that work globally. Since it's not a massive DPS difference I haven't been rushing it.

[bleak sky]

yeah no biggie at all

[ebon notch]

makes sense

[bleak sky]

as long as people are aware that following the pin is the way to go with venthyr for now it's good

[ebon notch]

ty kojinyan

[fleet anchor]

CT gets kinda delayed in this case because of the Vanish condition

Combo of MA+single target CT conditions being slightly wonky

Not a big deal in DPS terms but as the pins say it's probably better to get CT up ahead of time

[marble hemlock]

Who is cev?

[frosty cedar]

dont u mean brian

[marble hemlock]

Yeah

[fleet anchor]

Oh right

I wasn't around much yesterday, I forgot 😄

[ebon notch]

slander

[fleet anchor]

Anyway my goal is to get this stuff tested and find some conditions that work both for NF and Venthyr without any losses this weekend

Was out of town last weekend so didn't have time

[limber lion]

Yeah, they're mainly to ease out with the rotation and pretty much only work for Venthyr. Following the rotation on the sim doesn't really work because it changes every iteration, and a bunch of people have been messaging me asking about the rotation .

But yeah, following the rotation in the pins works fine for the opener, but you have to consider bleed uptimes and whatnot for the next Flag/Vend casts.

The gains are kinda whatever

[ashen scroll]

What were your changes?

[limber lion]

It's in the pins.

It's just that this doesn't happen

[kind talon]

Hello Brian quick question

Ct or Envenom in shiv window

[cunning magnet]

With 4 pc, is CT overtaking PB?

[hollow river]

For Venthyr yea

[cunning magnet]

kk

Im playing NF but wanted to be sure

[hollow river]

During vendetta/flag you definitely CT

Not sure about outside

[limber lion]

CT if it is not up or is in pandemic.

Envenom if SnD about to drop or if CT is already on and not in a pandemic window.

[kind talon]

ty

so basically

shiv window doesnt matter in vend

outside of vend do i ct as well?

[limber lion]

You always CT

[kind talon]

ok ty

still using wps?

or would LP be better for 2 potency nadjia

obviously it doesnt really matter

[limber lion]

WPS better single, LP better on cleave usually

So I just run LP everywhere

[vestal wren]

wait, this is a imposter brian

[subtle tundra]

ban

🔨

[peak sun]

!cache

[small bane]

Why is it assassination only in AWC but ladder is all sub?

[bleak sky]

Idk

[bleak sky]

Axe

[bleak sky]

#pvp might know the answer

[gusty mirage]

Because the ladder is filled with rogue mage, and sub plays better with mage than assassination

Plus AWC had access to tier, sin tier cranks in arena while the sub one is kind of meh

[normal mist]

Finally finished ksm, even tho it only took me 2 weeks xD and got revered with ZM rep, I'm now 266 with unity on bracers! Feelsgood

[gusty mirage]

Hey man, the season’s very long. Don’t put yourself down for it taking you 2 weeks

You’re killing it

[normal mist]

I mean, I legit needed two weeks, one for fortified and one for tyrannical, all 16s and some 15. Legit still missing DoS tyrannical

But my honest opinion about assa after finishing ksm is that... it isn't really fun in keys

Other than spamming deathspikes

And feeling like a main character from an action movie for a while

Did them all as assa, haven't touched sub this season yet

It's just pain to watch a fury warrior and surv hunter doing 30/40 even 50k dps in cleave, more if AoE, and there I was, barely touching 20k aoe, and overalls of 12k

Which makes me question: as a 2/4set rogue, pretty okay gear, is it normal for my overall dmg to be so "low" compared to so many other specs?

[limber lion]

Depends on the dungeon, comp, pulls, route etc

[normal mist]

Pala tank (4/4), mm hunter (0/4), assa (me, 2/4) and 2 randoms

Usually the pugs were warriors or mages

The dps pug that is

[zinc frost]

I wouldn’t stress about being lower than everyone else. We aren’t kings at aoe in dungeons, we provide consistent dmg, boss damage and prio.

[limber lion]

It really depends

There is no clear answer

M+ is q everchanging environment

I might do 19k in a SD pug, then do it again and do 16k

So many moving parts

[normal mist]

The only thing that never changed in all the 15s I did was my overall being between 11 and 12k xD at least im consistent

[subtle tundra]

Can't say anything cause this Brian guy will flame me.

[limber lion]

Just spitting facts

[normal mist]

Brian is a cool guy

Please continue

[limber lion]

But yeh, Sub will always do more damage with less work

It is what it is

[normal mist]

I know. I'm just fighting against being forced to sub

[zinc frost]

You shouldn’t be forced unless you are really pushing high keys

[normal mist]

Did 6/8 20s last season as sub

And yeah that shit is easy

You just boom

And paw

And boom again

And do 30k dps

Meanwhile assa in keys

https://tenor.com/view/calculating-puzzled-math-confused-confused-look-gif-14677181

[subtle tundra]

The difference is huge this season

[normal mist]

Care to explain?

[subtle tundra]

Dmg

[normal mist]

I legit haven't played sub this season

[subtle tundra]

Ease to play

[zinc frost]

4pc made sub stocks go even higher in dungeons

[subtle tundra]

The dmg dif is biiiiig

[normal mist]

So I dont even know what legendary they using or what 4/4 does

[limber lion]

Double edit, that's me when I'm ragetyping on the phone

[normal mist]

I'm laying down and phone keeps autocorrecting me :(

[vernal horizon]

I assume that the pandemic windows inside vendetta (with 4p) halves?

[limber lion]

Correct.

[vernal horizon]

thanks!

should you pool / make sure you have a certain amount of energy before shiv?

[limber lion]

No problem.

[limber lion]

No.

[vernal horizon]

alright!

[normal mist]

My tank friend keeps trolling me "when will you play the good dps spec on your class?" To which I can only answer that "if it isn't 20s or above, it does not matter"

[limber lion]

It's more important to use Shiv as much as you can instead of trying to force "good windows".

[limber lion]

Make that 25+

[vernal horizon]

got you!

[zinc frost]

That’s pretty much it, sin is will do more than enough in 20-25 key range. Too many people get caught up in meta specs and assume that’s what they need to do 20s..

[normal mist]

I believe he says that because our normal overalls in 15s is between the 3dps is 10 and 15k and he is doing pretty much 10k aswell

Jesus.

[ebon notch]

my guild keeps asking me why i dont play assa in keys

i just replied with "i only troll in raid in keys its serious"

[normal mist]

LOL

[lyric crater]

for keys it vamp and ne

nero

NF so so?

[limber lion]

Necro always :)

[vernal horizon]

Does ongoing bleed durations when you hit vendetta matter? (As in you dont want them to be to low)
Does it matter what cp you are on when you use vendetta? As long as you make sure to not be to high on energy to avoid capping. (Think i read under 80 energy)
If vendetta just came off cd, and vanish is 25 sec off - do you hold for 6-7 sec to get the vanish into the final garrote?
Sorry, im sure you get these questions alot!

(All these with 4 set in mind)

[limber lion]

1. No, just follow normal pandemic timers.

2. No.

3. Your Vanish shouldn't desync. Just send Vendetta without it if that somehow happens.

[vernal horizon]

Regarding 3, doesnt it desync with duskwalker or am I not taking something into consideration?

[limber lion]

You have around 1min Vendettas with Duskwalkers, so every other one should have Vanish ready

[vernal horizon]

ah got you, cheers

[limber lion]

Especially if playing Venthyr

Where you want to sync Flag/Vend everytime

[drowsy parcel]

Assassination
Fan of Knives damage increased by 30%.

[subtle tundra]

ok whats 30% out of nothing???

[fading wigeon]

Wait what

[sinful cradle]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/eu/upcoming-class-tuning-changes-6-april-350350

[vestal wren]

Fan of Knives damage increased by 30%.

time to play hidden blades?

[sinful cradle]

HB

Nightstalker MA lego big crit

[real bay]

just what was needed kekw

[fading wigeon]

Holy crap

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

so blizz knows assa bad

and thats what they do

[oak sky]

they did not just buff fok damage and nothing else

they didnt

[grave trail]

fan needs to read base crit chance +20% as well

[subtle tundra]

make it so fok generates 1 cp per target affected by garrote, make it smooth to play.

[oak sky]

tbf that seems more like a 10.0 change

[real bay]

give fok EB mechanic make fok great again

[strange python]

wait

thats real?

l0l

[oak sky]

theyre really pushing pk

[cunning magnet]

Pk?

[tropic rover]

Poisoned Katar

[cunning magnet]

Ah ok

[drifting cosmos]

🤔 is this a big buff

[rotund oak]

this might break the m+ meta

gief sims plz ❤️

[subtle tundra]

its just a small buff

they made it so they cant buff assa aoe without buffing its ST

[fading wigeon]

I just want to spam FoK like I do SCK on monk

Is that too much to ask

[subtle tundra]

nothing they can do to our aoe without making assa broken in ST

except buff fok, which they just did

[spice spire]

Yeah

[strange python]

windwalker buffs

:/

[subtle tundra]

i mean

windwalker is really bad

[strange python]

cringe

[drifting cosmos]

at least ret is getting buffed too

[rotund oak]

[grave trail]

they can buff ct dot the more targets have rupture or something

[oak sky]

no

[rotund oak]

Ret buffs gonna make them mad strong

[subtle tundra]

you do know that windwalker ST is on level with tanks

[drifting cosmos]

tanks does big dmg these days

[grave trail]

or have a way to spread rupture like warlocks spread their dots

[subtle tundra]

its just tuning changes at the start of a patch

[zinc frost]

It’s okay maybe this FoK buff was a delayed April fools joke

[oak sky]

its pretty unlikely we get big mechanical changes

[drifting cosmos]

i think this patch belongs to hunters and lock, so they dont want to ruin that

[cunning magnet]

Rupture spread by fok. Would be dope

[strange python]

_>

[oak sky]

that would be incredibly broken unless rupture did piss damage

[grave trail]

would have to tune the damage obv

[oak sky]

which would make our st worse

[grave trail]

tune it past 6 targets or something

[signal pier]

Is the FoK buff cash money or not?

[grave trail]

it helps but youll still generate 1 cp

[spice spire]

It’s generous to think a WW monk is on par with a prot pally

[subtle tundra]

me, on pull, garrote garrote garrote fok fok ct fok fok fok

[oak sky]

fok fok rupture

[subtle tundra]

that means i will omega burst with the buffs

right????

[spice spire]

Yes man

:clueless:

[grave trail]

with katar on a huge pack prob

[oak sky]

my guilds shadow priest is about to complain about no shadow buffs

[signal pier]

yes, as long as u stand on a plaguefall redslime pool

[oak sky]

i can tell

[willow eagle]

Any chance hidden blades becomes a thing with the small buff?

[subtle tundra]

no

not even close

its a dead talent

[oak sky]

its lame as fuck too

hold fok until you have enough stacks then use it

or alternatively

[signal pier]

any chance they remove edge of night from the game?

[oak sky]

change no gameplay

but then waste the talent

[wanton imp]

I was checking some DoS sin logs and it doesn't look like a big buff

[subtle tundra]

cause its not

[grim tangle]

this fok buff is going to be big once echoing blades comes back in 10.0

[subtle tundra]

it wont change a thing on sin m+ viability

[rotund oak]

just like outlaw is getting uncapped

which is never

[wanton imp]

888dps overall without the buff. Pretty small buff

[oak sky]

this fok buff won't matter in 10.0* because new borrowed power abilities passives and shit will change our profile and we might need new aura buffs or nerfs

[grave trail]

sin needs a gameplay change to be viable in m+ prob

[oak sky]

yes

or massive tuning

[subtle tundra]

what it will do is make venthyr/nf closer to necro

[rotund oak]

or tierset rework

like ''CT applies 5 cp rupture ''

[signal pier]

im down to tierset rework it's gonna happen

[wanton imp]

I wish it was a garrote or CT buff :sad:

[vestal wren]

not sure if i got the buff correct, but thats

[subtle tundra]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[rotund oak]

😅

sadge

[signal pier]

brb switching to assa

[zinc frost]

Huge damage

[real bay]

ooooooooOOO blizz rly knows how to tune XD

[grave trail]

how does it translate to that lol

how many targets

[vestal wren]

lets try hidden blades

[grave trail]

fuu

[vestal wren]

dungeon slcie

*slice

[subtle tundra]

WO, as in me playing assa and not sub so my team kills wo instead of urh 🙂

[echo geyser]

finally i can main sin

[subtle tundra]

ok

so

guys i have plan

we go CRY BIG TIME

on forums

like big TIME

now that they can buff us

[spice spire]

We talking boomkin levels?

[subtle tundra]

yes.

[vestal wren]

big buffs to HB

[signal pier]

if you start a post i'll bump it every day

[spice spire]

On it

[spice spire]

-1.2k

For taking HB

[vestal wren]

1.8% buff to HB.
still around 7% behind ct

[brazen zodiac]

huge

[signal pier]

i s2g if you make a high effort post like spriests used to do back in the day, it can actually get attention

[subtle tundra]

do we spam fok on 8+ targets if we have ruptures up and CT rolling?!??!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!?

omg

[vestal wren]

6 targets (ct)

[uneven hamlet]

blizz is clueless lmao

[subtle tundra]

thats

immense

[real bay]

big damager

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s a good buff

[subtle tundra]

now we're like 3.8k dps behind sub, instead of 4k

[signal pier]

that's another step forward

[balmy condor]

But the issue is still cp gen

[subtle tundra]

and lack of numbers 🙂

[vestal wren]

sub is on 20.4k dps

in slice

[spice spire]

Lack of numbers in my combo points

[vestal wren]

so sin only ~18% behind

[signal pier]

they dont have to think of anything, just give assa the sub 4 set effect, shadowstrikes and all

[thin trout]

30% buff lol

[acoustic siren]

how you pump AOE dmg as assa?

[ashen scroll]

you dont

[drifting cosmos]

you dont

[thin trout]

not

[acoustic siren]

ah okay 😄

[signal pier]

you get another 4 assa rogues, and you tell them what to attack

[thin trout]

exactly

[acoustic siren]

so i do nothing wrong its the spec i guess

[drifting cosmos]

or you click spec activation - sub

[thin trout]

use all your CDs on one mob and just wait before it days within 5 seconds because u have 2 hunters doing 100k dps and a guardian doing 90k dps

[violet hemlock]

does this change confuse anyone else

[signal pier]

the only confused ones are Blizzard

[violet hemlock]

like that seems like something that did not need to be changed at all

[thin trout]

i dont even know why

[violet hemlock]

its sooo dumb

[vestal wren]

more damage is more damage

[violet hemlock]

I can now understand ol pain

[vestal wren]

so i guess, we take it

[violet hemlock]

buff randoim shit lets see if it works

[thin trout]

would rather have seen outlaw fixes

[violet hemlock]

tru

[safe barn]

the monk buff tho

[violet hemlock]

I mean its all st ability

monk one makes sense

[tropic rover]

Were your sims with Poisoned Katar? I'm sure I'm coping but wondering if that adds any value

[signal pier]

ret one also makes sense

[violet hemlock]

lol

Guardian one also makes sense

[vestal wren]

haha lets do copium sim

[violet hemlock]

seems they understand all classes but rogue

[signal pier]

Guardian is still stupid broken

[violet hemlock]

I mean they are nerfing more

[drifting cosmos]

i guess its better than nothing

[violet hemlock]

more nerf

[tropic rover]

[signal pier]

that target cap nerfed them from 200k on NW to 90k, a tank holding 90k is still stupid

[ebon notch]

i blame the community figures

[violet hemlock]

ye they nerfed it again tho

[ebon notch]

they cant accurately complain to blizzard

so they cant accurately fix anything

[signal pier]

in PvP combat

[vestal wren]

pk + hb, 6 targets

[ebon notch]

"assa aoe bad"

"fok buff good?"

[violet hemlock]

todays bluepost

[signal pier]

oh im blind

legally

[rotund oak]

big diff

[vestal wren]

assassination #1 in aoe damage

[violet hemlock]

its a decent buff

[tropic rover]

STONKS

[violet hemlock]

but makes no sense

[vestal wren]

yes but only if we ignore the value of ct

[signal pier]

it's A buff, that's all

[tropic rover]

Thanks for indulging me Fuu 🤣

[violet hemlock]

Id pref like lethal poison buff over it make sin dot again

dont want bigger percentage of dmg to be fan off knives

already get sad when i see that

guess we cant be buffing the 2pc value more than it already is

[ebon notch]

all they have to do

is make poison bomb worth taking

again

[signal pier]

or make 4p aoe?

[subtle tundra]

no

lmao

poison bomb is completely dogshit design

in every way

[ebon notch]

i mean if they made 4p aoe how would you even use it

[violet hemlock]

that seems kinda insane ngl

[ebon notch]

you cant even dot everything that fast

you'd just be doing CT over and over again

[oak sky]

4p isnt going aoe

[violet hemlock]

ye

[signal pier]

insane doesn't mean can't happen

[oak sky]

0% chance 4p goes aoe

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[subtle tundra]

they wont change tier sets

[signal pier]

look at destro lock

[subtle tundra]

my guys

[signal pier]

that's insane

[violet hemlock]

u cant do more thhan like rupture on 2/3 targets during vendetta

[ebon notch]

4p going aoe is one of those builds that a bot can play to perfection but players just cant

[signal pier]

then they double down destro with another 5% buff

[oak sky]

no like actually 0% chance we get aoe vendetta

and i dont think anyone would actually want that

it wouldnt even be good

your rupture instantly falls off

you cant maintain enough dots for it to matter

[signal pier]

4p aoe is better than 4p st

[ebon notch]

honestly the only way it would be good would be if you dotted everything

[violet hemlock]

ye rn in vendetta its already weird since ur refreshing rupture garote and ct constantly

[safe barn]

liked it back in legion

[zinc frost]

I think we have to cope with the fact sin isn’t going to get any proper aoe changed until 10.0 reworks

[ebon notch]

and then pressed vendetta like an anime finger snap meme shit

and everything just bleeds out

and you do insane aoe burst

and then just sit there and cry while you cant redot anything

[oak sky]

and likely not even any then

[fleet whale]

OMG fan of knives buffed
sin is saved

[violet hemlock]

tru

[subtle tundra]

"wow, my complete rng proc made me do extreme dmg!!!! cant wait for it to not proc and do shit dmg!!!!"

[fleet whale]

dreadlords deceit now meta /s

[subtle tundra]

@balmy condor at what amounts of targets do we fok spam now?

[signal pier]

love the reaction of every new person that enters this convo and talks about FoK, everyone knows *this FoK buff is absolutely garbage

[ebon notch]

i wish they would do something where the damage you do to your main target would affect adds around it

that way your 4pc is relevant

but you dont have the stress of trying to multidot like an adhd sufferer

[signal pier]

wish they would consult theorycrafters in class designs

[sand sigil]

fok damage has been increased by 30%. do we pull 25k overall in dos now or not? no believers only number junkies

[fleet whale]

i was being sarcastic lol

[ebon notch]

nah it goes up to 30k now

[sand sigil]

ur a believer smh

[subtle tundra]

???? i can pull like 27k if i pot???

[ebon notch]

hahahahha

[subtle tundra]

BEFORE the buffs.

imagine with them

[ebon notch]

cmon the only time i gave you the cope was when it worked

[cerulean junco]

I believe no 🧢 sin can crank in DoS

[sand sigil]

is sin > sub is the question

[cerulean junco]

No shot

[signal pier]

varas

[strange python]

absolutely not xd

[ebon notch]

lmao

[oak sky]

@sand sigil sin now has better aoe than sub, so no reason to play sub in any dungeon

[ebon notch]

nah

sin is just broken with the 4pc

[sand sigil]

garbage spec

[ebon notch]

no sub im ean

fuck

im coping too hard

it affected my brain

[oak sky]

sin has less variance so its better

there you go

[sand sigil]

man sin is so fun too

[subtle tundra]

FUCK YEA

[cerulean junco]

I’ve only done 24k in dos as sub. I wanna see the 25

[subtle tundra]

JAMES

FUCK YEA

FINALLY

[fleet whale]

sub is better in open world content

[violet hemlock]

My biggest issue with sin aint dmg its the fact they can get as many stops as sub

sad

[ebon notch]

varas wdym he played it in SOD mythic

man was playing assa rogue on sylvanas prog

[violet hemlock]

only have kidney sucks

[subtle tundra]

ik but m+ assa

guess he cant grief

[violet hemlock]

and blind

[subtle tundra]

when he plays with good players

[ebon notch]

did you see the pf assa he did?

[empty hinge]

i mean

[vestal wren]

low effort meme

[empty hinge]

necro assa will be better now for PF and ToP

[fleet whale]

blizz should replace the dreadlord's deceit talent with that azerite trait that made FoK multihit when it crit

[signal pier]

jesus i shed a tear

[ebon notch]

@sand sigil i actually think you could beat sub in top with assa on tyran

[oak sky]

idunno maybe sin being good would motivate me to play m+

[violet hemlock]

echoing blades right

[oak sky]

BUT I DONT EVEN HAVE 4P YET

[fleet whale]

yeah that's what it was called

[signal pier]

how

[empty hinge]

same

[cerulean junco]

Outlaw down bad though

[violet hemlock]

I have 4pc and it just makes sin in keys sooo much more work that it already is

[subtle tundra]

no? since necro means you fok less so the impact of the buff is smaller
also < 3 target pulls means no foks

[signal pier]

april fools ended, why is outlaw still bugged

[ebon notch]

[vestal wren]

tbh, thats expected to be solved soon

[violet hemlock]

why is sub tier still bugged, unplayeable spec rn

[signal pier]

I hope

[violet hemlock]

have they stated wether main gauche only proccing on ss is a bug or not

[subtle tundra]

how much dps in dungeon slice was the buff for outlaw? how much is for assa?

[signal pier]

I took a 3rd look at this, I came to the conclusion an AI made this decision

[violet hemlock]

ye

its soo dumb

[oak sky]

tbf i dont think they can actually buff anything else without breaking our st

[fleet whale]

buff envenom by 10%

[signal pier]

they can do anything they want

[violet hemlock]

lethal poisons

or ct

would both be better

[oak sky]

ct is used in st

right now

[subtle tundra]

both of those buff our st

[violet hemlock]

ye

[oak sky]

poisons are always relevant in st

[tidal gorge]

4pc should cause any poisons/bleeds applied during vendetta to double tick imo

[violet hemlock]

but buffing it by 10% doesnt make or srt insane

[oak sky]

poisons are a very high % of our damage

[tidal gorge]

Instead of exsang lite

[fleet whale]

envenom too weak, needs more damage

[signal pier]

4p - applying dot/poison to vendettad target also applies it to 4-5 nearby targets

[oak sky]

poisons are like 18% of our st

[safe barn]

ok

need to know

how much does it matter this buff

like

[subtle tundra]

0

[fleet whale]

not much

[granite pumice]

So will spamming fan of knives with 4 or more targets be the best way to build cp?

[oak sky]

poisons are quite literally the biggest part of our damage

[fleet whale]

look at the outlaw channel, some people did some sims there

[signal pier]

0.7*

[safe barn]

figured as much

[fleet whale]

best cast scenario is like 2.5% buff in very heavy aoe

[ebon notch]

THATS CAP

[oak sky]

THATS M+

BOZO

[zinc frost]

Just pretend they didn’t buff FoK and everything remains the same

[fleet whale]

most cases it won't even be a 1% buff

[ebon notch]

FOK IS M+ BUDDY

[oak sky]

i meant our st

i was talking about

buffing deadly poison

[ebon notch]

who cares about st

[sand sigil]

sin players when u talk about "a spec that performs well with a lot of downtime": no that's not true sin doesn't actually rely that much on poisons and bleeds

sin players when u talk about buffing poison damage and how it will impact their damage:

[ebon notch]

we run CT in single target ffs

[oak sky]

making our st op

[violet hemlock]

truuu

[oak sky]

[oak sky]

yes

[fleet whale]

i miss our old mastery tbh

[ebon notch]

assa giga uptime class now

[oak sky]

my whole point was fok is actually the only thing they can buff

[ebon notch]

just triple the duration of all our bleeds and we become an envenom spec again

easy clap

[oak sky]

without making us too strong in other areas

but its not gonna do anything obviously

[subtle tundra]

thats also funny, cause if assa misses uptime during cds as venth, youre fucked

[violet hemlock]

I understand its just kinda sad

[granite pumice]

I was looking through faq and pinned messages for help on increasing multi target DPS while sill being night fae or venthry.. Any suggestions on a guide?

[violet hemlock]

they bufff it again and it becomes a better builder than muta in 2t

[ebon notch]

demon

[fallen fable]

Blizzard trolling again?

[oak sky]

dot everything hard maintain ct

[violet hemlock]

press vendetta on cd esp if u have 4pc dusk

[fleet whale]

I might re-roll to sub for awhile. Sin seems too big brain for me atm

[violet hemlock]

and while vendetta is up make sure to keep ur dots on ur vendetta target

[granite pumice]

So rupture and garrote everything keep CT up and build combo points normal single target way?

[violet hemlock]

also never miss a shiv

well with enough targets u buiiild with fan instead of muta

I think its 4t

[subtle tundra]

in a 24 pf that i did last week, fok did 2.7% of my dmg. with the buffs i would've finished the dungeon with 100 more dps.

[violet hemlock]

les go!

[signal pier]

Bigggg

[granite pumice]

OK and at a certain number of targets you no longer worry a out envenom and snd

[violet hemlock]

u only evenom to keep us snd

really and if ur have rupture on all targets

[granite pumice]

Somewhere I saw keeping Snd up at like 5 targets wasn't worth it I think there's so much info out there, some bad lol

[winter vapor]

for M+ now, whats our priority like for Chiv, after 3 garrotes or after CT? or after the ruptures have been spread?

[violet hemlock]

on low keys tho you wont get rupture on all targets so I stop at like 3 targets and just evenom

[signal pier]

Remove gcd from assa, that will solve it

[subtle tundra]

thats sub

[violet hemlock]

ye sin keeps it up cause u get it from free with envenom

[slow marsh]

Has rogue gotten buffs yet

[ebon notch]

they should revert 2 piece change nad put it back to 100%

[violet hemlock]

its not like a dmg less spell to keep up snd

[ebon notch]

does anyone have a sim from before they reduced it to 40

[slow marsh]

It was too good at 100%

[slow marsh]

In isolation as a 2p tier bonus it was out performing other specs entire setup

[signal pier]

@vestal wren

[winter vapor]

Additionally, with 2 pc or 4 piece, is CT worth more than envnom ST at all?

[violet hemlock]

😄

[ebon notch]

pins

[slow marsh]

Is this real or April fools

[violet hemlock]

real

sasdly

same post as this

so def real

[safe barn]

i think its a little late for that

[subtle tundra]

how much dps in dungeon slice was the buff for outlaw? how much is for assa?

[vestal wren]

sin tier set is even nerfed insane

[fleet whale]

blizz must think we are still in bfa

[slow marsh]

I've been playing classic cuz retail feels bad so I'm out of the loop for once

[ebon notch]

huh

[violet hemlock]

do u play sin in classic?