assassination

[zinc frost]

Sin will be fine for 20-25s

[winged basin]

I’m just here to ego bad sub rogues to go sin 🙂

[zinc frost]

But yeah ain’t gonna lie to you to say you’ll be busting your ass off playing sin to watch a sub rogue do everything you do better with ease

[winged basin]

Sub AOE is ridiculous tho, when I do keys with our other sub rogue he does a quarter of the work for double/triple the dps

It’s kinda crazy

[trail mica]

I play sin cause i don't have sylvanas daggers...

[subtle tundra]

Not a good reason lol

[winged basin]

LOL my friends guild is doing a pug thing to get people sylv kills for a chance at old gear that’s still bis but I have no shot of getting that dagger either

[limber lion]

Just play whatever you want

[winged basin]

oh I’m gonna

[limber lion]

Who cares

Fun game, go have fun

[winged basin]

I’m a sin rogue forever cause at the end of the day I will always be happy with my small wins

[wild beacon]

I'd rather analyse all the fun and enjoyment out of it thank you very much

[winged basin]

^^^

this tho

[daring mango]

but our iron wire silences guys, surely tanks love sin rogues for their disruption right?

[zinc frost]

You’ll always play better with the spec your more comfortable with/enjoy

[winged basin]

This. I try explaining this to my guild when they ask why I don’t just play sub

It’s simply cause I don’t enjoy it as much, and would preform considerably worse 💀

[subtle tundra]

Tell them you play for fun.

[sonic schooner]

You can dislike locks but still be good at it tho, 1 button

Oopsi

[spice spire]

[winged basin]

I play this game to see the pretty numbers on Warcraft logs

[sonic schooner]

My guild told me the same, I said I'll go sub if we drop me 2 m sylv daggers. GlHf

[winged basin]

[subtle tundra]

My guild doesn't believe me assa is good in raid cause there is nobody playing it rn

[wild beacon]

I tried to go all in on sub with this patch but here I am, red again already

[winged basin]

I got into with the same person that made me quit in sanctum mythic prog so I told em they finna lose a sin rogue they don’t fix his attitude soon anyways, I’ll go where I am cherished as a big boi

[limber lion]

Only boss Assa is considerably worse on is Halondrus

Your guild dumb

:(

[subtle tundra]

Bcs they made the perfect sub boss

I'll hate having to learn kyrian sub for that

[sonic schooner]

Make PB great again and we will chunk out halondrus

🙄

[winged basin]

I always have guild issues, this one is just recurring cause it’s a lot of the people from last tier

It’s like a half cocked revival for the old guild mixed with new people

[limber lion]

I won't be playing Sub on Hal, if that's of any comfort

[subtle tundra]

I will only if we struggle on dps which I don't see happening but who knows tbf

[limber lion]

Still do more damage than any ranged players on that fight

[cloud reef]

i feel like playing sin is better than learning a new covenant spec for a fight, surely your guild knows that

[wild beacon]

Halondrus is extremely mechanics intensive so you want to be playing something familiar imo

[sonic schooner]

demono<

[subtle tundra]

If shouldn't take more than a few pulls to get it right though

[winged basin]

cries in night fae soon

[subtle tundra]

And since it's a multiple hundred pull boss it's not gonna matter

[misty holly]

what about halondrus makes sin bad?

[limber lion]

Nothing, but it makes Sub really good

[subtle tundra]

Nothing. Just sub benefits a lot

[wild beacon]

Even the 2nd shadowstep charge

[daring mango]

just roleplay a sub on skolex/halondrus with blindside deeper strat

[limber lion]

Can't miss autoattacks means you get more ShT procs, which means more combo points, which means morw finishers, which means more deeps

[cloud reef]

and more dances

[limber lion]

Ya

[fervent osprey]

Which legendaries we use in m+ with double leggo without tierbonus?

[subtle tundra]

Venthyr zoldyck

I guess

I wouldn't craft zoldyck just for that though

[fervent osprey]

Thanks @subtle tundra , already got zoldyck so np. And for necro also zoldyck you think?

[subtle tundra]

Y

[limber lion]

Duskwalkers or Zoldyck

for any covenant

[brazen zodiac]

todays the day

good morning gamers

[vestal wren]

👋

[spice spire]

Today is indeed the day

I’m disappointed by the vault and double legendary

[zinc frost]

Hey don’t hog all that disappointment, share some with the rest of us

[vestal wren]

how many tier pieces are missing for your makeit?

[solid venture]

tomorrow will be the day

[winged basin]

I still don’t have 2 set ecks dee

[hollow river]

Today quake gets 4p

[spice spire]

2, atm.
No shot I get 4p today. Most hopium I can take days 4p tomorrow

[brazen zodiac]

today badbttch gets the 4pc

either throuhg guild or through vault or through satanic offering

[hollow river]

[vestal wren]

isn't 2nd wing lfr this week

[hollow river]

[bleak sky]

no 4p today = I fork socket

[hollow river]

I have 3p

[hollow river]

Same

[brazen zodiac]

i have lfr pants for 3pc

lmfao

[hollow river]

^me

[brazen zodiac]

i had a dream that i got the halandrous pants

then he shot me

[spice spire]

Already got the lfr gloves from vault

[brazen zodiac]

so maybe?

[hollow river]

You got beamed to the face I saw it

[brazen zodiac]

no i mean he literally pulled out a gun with his leg and just bopped me

like wtf

[zinc frost]

LFR tier set gamer for the fat ilvl parses

[brazen zodiac]

too much true crime before bed apparently

lol rocking lfr pants feels bad

icould be wearing 262 but nope

[spice spire]

The tech

[empty hinge]

when is the NA reset

[tacit otter]

which stats are on the unity belt?

[limber lion]

crit/vers

[tacit otter]

tyy

[hollow river]

In 2-3 hours or so I think

[lean coral]

2 hours 40min

[hollow river]

[slim pebble]

Thinking of coming back after a break. How does assassination feel in keys?

[proper tapir]

Yikes

[spice spire]

Unfortunate

[slim pebble]

Well - that’s very unfortunate.

[limber lion]

Good

Depends what your goals are

[slim pebble]

I did some 20 and 21s as sub last season. Probably around there?

[limber lion]

That's fine

It's obviously worse than Sub and much harder to pull off

But it's definitely still doing fine dps

[spice spire]

Oh at 20s we’re chilling

Up until 25 you’re GIGA chilling

[slim pebble]

Thanks y’all

[frosty cedar]

bing chilling

[tacit otter]

should i still go zoldyck next week with 2p if im venth in m+? or just stick to dusk?

[limber lion]

You only switch to Dusk with 4p

You never ever play Dusk anywhere without 4p

[tacit otter]

ye, thats what i was thinking. but i never played zoldyck as venth so thats new i guess

[subtle tundra]

It changes nothing

[thorn fjord]

Had a dream i pulled mythic chest from my box today

Omen?

[spice spire]

Nah

Amen

[thorn fjord]

So i know unity on wrist and Dusk on Ring is the play... Think unity on wrist will suffice when playing Sub as well?

[spice spire]

Yes

[thorn fjord]

I figured

[spice spire]

It’s even recommended on wrist in their pins

I double checked to make sure

[thorn fjord]

now i gotta figure out what slot i'm crafting Akaaris on

[thorn fjord]

was hoping id get lucky and be able to craft it on helm but we only 2p boiz still 😦

[spice spire]

Yessir

3p from vault and getting 4th this week, trust

[thorn fjord]

[gusty mirage]

Probably not anymore. I’d say sin falls off earlier than 25s for the average player

[spice spire]

Idk man, that dusk value is gonna be kinda nutty.
But still worse than sub

[subtle tundra]

what dusk value

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

The value of losing bleeds on your prio target twice as often

[subtle tundra]

yea....

idk its incredibly cringe

dont even want to play dusk in m+

[spice spire]

Buddy I’ve seen the rio posts, you don’t even want to play assassination in m+

[gusty mirage]

It’s probably fine in top but yeah I’m leaning toward the same sentiments

[subtle tundra]

yea i dont

i want to do dmg

no, its shit in top

cause low target count = low cp gen

= cringe dotting

[gusty mirage]

Same, that’s why my hunter is level 59 now

[spice spire]

Bruh

I’ll meme on varas for running sub and haha, it makes sense

This Mfer going full fotm

You’ve changed :/

[subtle tundra]

when there's a 2k dps difference, its not about fotm

[gusty mirage]

Yeah and our class/spec hasn’t, unlucky

[subtle tundra]

its about not trolling

i was all about assa m+ before tier pieces

if 2p were still 100%, it would've been fine for aoe i think

[spice spire]

I think there’s value somewhere and I’ll find it
But yeah, 4p MM absolutely shreds

[subtle tundra]

op for st, but good for aoe

[spice spire]

Even 2p

[gusty mirage]

You know when I realized I fucked up? It’s when I killed an elite on my hunter in 5s @spice spire

[subtle tundra]

they need to do something about aoe dmg for assa :/

next expac

[spice spire]

[subtle tundra]

obviously they wont leave the spec unchanged for 8 years and try to make it feel decent with borrowed power

[spice spire]

Sin does seem overdo for some love.
Outside of borrowed power it’s functioned the same for a bit

Hey same shit

[gusty mirage]

But guys

Think of the 100 buffs we got in 9.0 to make it playable

[subtle tundra]

any 21% aura buffers?

[spice spire]

Don’t get me wrong, sub needed some love and I’m glad it got it.
But now other specs are rough

51 pal

[subtle tundra]

i mean just in 1 patch

[gusty mirage]

The aura buffs that fell off harder than my self esteem lmao

[spice spire]

True

But still

51% aura buff is

[gusty mirage]

If anything it just shows you how dogshit the spec was at expac launch

[jolly comet]

Should I be going Dashing/Unity for raids before 4pc? and Zol for M+?

[spice spire]

Oh I knew exactly how bad it was

[spice spire]

Whatever sims best for ST.
M+ is spot on

[subtle tundra]

if you have 2pc, zoldyck

in raid*

[gusty mirage]

^ what the man said

[jolly comet]

ok cool thanks

[urban plover]

m,.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,0m21543-/302/175*/*+7

[gusty mirage]

I agree

[urban plover]

,

+giphy query: ++++-

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

[urban plover]

/*******************

1

9466+00+

05485103.7+7

-+*/

[gusty mirage]

Homie you good?

[ember mural]

[cerulean junco]

Brother woke up speaking automa

[hollow river]

This dude has seen the FRACTALS

And came back to us

[supple steppe]

I normally play sub, but play necro sin with zold for both Pantheon and Lords in raid. With double leggo, is that combo still the best option or should I recraft zold and/or level NF?

[subtle tundra]

thats still best

on lords you play dusk instead of zold

[spice spire]

Mister varas is correct

[subtle tundra]

💀

[spice spire]

[supple steppe]

ok thanks! I guess I gotta go farm more torghast lol

[subtle tundra]

if you dont want to craft both just for 2 fights, i'd either go dusk on both or play sub on pantheon and dusk on lords

[supple steppe]

I'm gonna craft both because both fights felt so bad on sub lol

[grim tangle]

they'll feel better with the 4set on sub

[subtle tundra]

oh, you meant without 4set? 🤨

dusk is only 4 set

[supple steppe]

hoping for 4set this week, but we'll see

[restive falcon]

what is the opener now for assassiantion 4piece as night fae

for venth it was gar snd ambush mut flag rup venda

has it changed at all, i would assume so

[alpine radish]

Im going to assume the lack of vault sharing is due to unfortunate showings 😂

[pure moth]

servers arent up

[alpine radish]

Or am i early?

[pure moth]

give it 30 minutes or so

[boreal whale]

servers are up just hasn't reset

[alpine radish]

20 mins?

[pure moth]

ah yeah i checked 5 mins ago and everything said offline

[boreal whale]

ya

[alpine radish]

Usually 7am for europe until clocks go forward

[wide ridge]

servers supposed to be back online in about 20, right

[pure moth]

yes, they are online now but reset is in 20

[wide ridge]

oh gotcha

may we find fat loot on our vaults today amen

[thorn fjord]

[nocturne geode]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/850080816163848212.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

[alpine radish]

[wooden aurora]

[manic pebble]

4 pieces here we go!

[alpine radish]

[wooden aurora]

more tier for a slot i already had rip

[thorn fjord]

Big ole rip for me

Heroic cache

And blood signet ring with crit/haste

Prob take the ring if cache doesn't sim amazing

[upbeat needle]

finally got 2pc

[slow marsh]

glad people are getting some good stuff

[vale oasis]

Does the 2set affect the main target or only those around ?

[wooden aurora]

the shiv debuff?

[vale oasis]

Yeah

[wooden aurora]

everything

[vale oasis]

Nice thank you

[wooden aurora]

ya its good lmao,

[pure moth]

yay tier

[obtuse robin]

same

[pure moth]

almost a 4 set in ur vault hah

[obtuse robin]

sim wants me to take chest over shoulders

thats bait i think

[clever kindle]

all a sim is telling you is what your immediate benefit is

If youre not getting a 4 piece or 2 piece bonus with that piece of tier the chest may very well be a higher increase

But you would still want to take the tier shoulders if you arent already using 4 piece

[limber lion]

Congrats boys

and girls

and everything in between

[pure moth]

was gunna say.. hah

[clever kindle]

and everything further beyond

man^2

[alpine radish]

Bruh

[pure moth]

for me thats 3rd piece. so hopefully i get lucky in raid this week

[alpine radish]

Havent even got my 1st piece yet and im seeing vaults like that 😂 😂 😂 😂

[pure moth]

que up for LFR 2nd wing available this week... so theres 2 tier bosses now for a chance

[spice spire]

Already got the gloves

From LFR

So only need halo

[alpine radish]

Full vault last few weeks on rogue and lock and havent got a tier piece on either

Incl raid

[proper tapir]

I got IQD in vault, how does one use this? Game for stats using a WA and save one use for execute?

[alpine radish]

Use on cd with cds

Awkward trinket with sin tho

Guess with 4 set you can line it up with every 3rd vend

[proper tapir]

Does that end up give heals and mana?

[alpine radish]

It can do

You can get a weak aura to track

Thats what i do on my lock for it

[junior rampart]

That's a variety of choices you have for tier set. Lol

[echo geyser]

Bro plz share some

[obtuse robin]

[echo geyser]

[winged basin]

Pls no meme for phone pic, I couldn’t handle waiting so my mom opened my vault for me

[spice spire]

Good stuff

[drifting cloud]

the super rare 275 mythic

its gonna bother you till the end of the tier!

[winged basin]

Lol no way, I’m made hype

This would’ve made 4 weeks no 2 set

I didn’t even get norm gloves til last week

Only gear that’s actually dropped for me is heroic cache

[brazen zodiac]

gl gamers

[cloud reef]

i still have no tier

[viscid spear]

I do have this now tho

[normal slate]

I almost rage quit the game last week after 18 choices 2 raids of no 2 set

[limber lion]

𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐧𝐞𝐰 𝐕𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐲𝐫 𝐒𝐧𝐚𝐩𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐭𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐛𝐮𝐢𝐥𝐝 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐝𝐬:

With some new haste-snapshot tech that's been introduced by @fleet anchor and rotationally further improved by yours truly, it's looking like Venthyr will be the best covenant for us with 4p double legendaries on single target and cleave encounters. In simple terms we want to abuse the haste from Flagellation to snapshot the hasted bleeds during the 4p-buffed Vendetta and a simple way to do that is to use the opener/talent-setup below and apply the same rotation to every single Flag/Vend/MFD window during an encounter. Simply put you want to use this combo everytime these 4 aforementioned abilities are ready: Flag - Env/Rup - MFD - CT - Vend and making sure to reapply gar/rup toward the end of Vendetta.

You want to use aforementioned Flag/Vendetta/MFD combo together everytime, meaning that you want to hold Vendetta and MFD for Flagellation. You can use MFD once between Flagellation casts, but you should hold it for Flagellation after that. You want to mainly use Shiv on cooldown, it should line up well with every other Vendetta cast this way. Hold Shiv, if Flagellation has 10s or less remaining.

After running the numbers multiple times and having played both covenants on multiple boss encounters, I think that with Venthyr being so far ahead of Necrolord in single target/small cleave (1.5k in ST), Venthyr will be the go-to spec for most bosses. Unfortunately Deathspike does not bring enough damage or value on most fights due to the short range of the effect and the lack of any single target throughput. I would recommend Necrolord on Vigilant Guardian, Pantheon, Lords of Dread and (maybe) Rygelon, but Venthyr everywhere else.

With this new tech, Night Fae is no longer the best single target covenant. This puts Venthyr ahead of Night Fae by 500 DPS.

We are still in the process of making sure everything looks right and plays correctly. If you like Night Fae more than Venthyr, don't be discouraged to play Night Fae.

If you have any questions regarding Venthyr, the rotation, the haste snapshot or anything, feel free to tag me and I'll try to provide some more insight.

!snapshot in the chat for a clear explanation of what snapshotting actually means.

---

Info-dump for Venthyr/Necrolord:

Venthyr (ST):
Talents: 2332223
Opener (ST): Mutilate - Slice - Mutilate - Gar - Flag - Rupture - MFD - CT - Vend - Shiv - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti ...
Soulbind: Theotar with haste tea (3 potencies) > Nadja with Dauntless Duelist (2 potencies)
Conduits: Lashing Scars > Lethal Poisons > Well-Placed Steel

Necrolord (AoE):
Talents: 2222223
Opener (2T): Gar¹ - SBS¹ - Gar² - Slice - SBS² - Muti - Rup¹ - Vend - Shiv ...
Soulbind: Marileth on ST/Addwaves (3 potencies), Heirmir on sustain targets with gemstones (2 potencies)
Conduits: Sudden Fractures > Lethal Poisons > Well-Placed Steel

[alpine latch]

I got 2pc if I take pants, but I'm not taking pants yet 😕

[obtuse robin]

[subtle tundra]

and i was hyped to play nf finally

i get bad news

[limber lion]

I would like to remind you that this tech is quite degenerate

[alpine latch]

I hate snapshotting ... But it is what it is.

[obtuse robin]

so that why my sim today still wanted to use MA talent

after getting 2p

[past bobcat]

Really venth ended up coming ahead lol

[limber lion]

You will do perfectly fine as Night Fae, however the field of blossoms sucks and I hate it

[subtle tundra]

any more details about what you do different as venthyr?

[limber lion]

so

lmao

[half tartan]

What stats are you guys putting on belt?

Unity

for Sub // SIn

[limber lion]

We use wrists, but crit/vers is fine

[past bobcat]

What Lego are you using with venth?

[subtle tundra]

dusk

[limber lion]

You follow the normal Shiv/Vend/Flag/MFD rules, using them as much as possible, but syncing whenever possible.

You want to always have one MFD for Flag, you want to sync Flag/Vend together if possible

You want to hold Shiv for Vendetta, not the other way around

[subtle tundra]

what about holding vendetta for flag?

[limber lion]

But you always want to setup your bleeds first

and use MFD before Vendetta

to get a bunch of Flag stacks before snapshotting with Vend

[subtle tundra]

cause flag will be like 1min and vendetta 50

ah

[limber lion]

That's fine

[half tartan]

Do we keep on belt for Jailer belt equip?

[limber lion]

You would want to always do something like:
Flag - Rupture - MFD - CT - Vend

[half tartan]

Do we keep on wrist*

[obtuse robin]

so no more shiv on cd

[winged basin]

Oh my life, this day just keeps getting better and better and better

[obtuse robin]

pop with ven

[limber lion]

Yes

[limber lion]

No that rule still is the same

You use Shiv as much as possible on cooldown

[obtuse robin]

so seems nothing has changed

[limber lion]

Not in terms of Shiv usage

[strange python]

where is NL leggo going?

[obtuse robin]

it is still early and maybe i missed it in the post but what has changed i nthe rotation

[subtle tundra]

whats the difference in dps between ven and nf on bis?

[obtuse robin]

reapply bleeds right b4 ven ends?

[balmy condor]

Unity goes on wrist

[limber lion]

look at the rotation lol

[limber lion]

assuming haste tea, around 300 dps

[obtuse robin]

im still groggy from waking lmao

[subtle tundra]

oof

[limber lion]

but tea juggling is

you know

it is what it is

[subtle tundra]

(cringe)

[obtuse robin]

atleast it doesnt go cd anymore when popped outside of theo

[subtle tundra]

me, logging in the morning to roll my tea on raid day and not play the game until then

[subtle tundra]

i pop it on assa, change spec to sub and bcs i was kyrian i now have 1 hr cd

fun

oopsies, no more tea 🙂

[obtuse robin]

[brazen zodiac]

night fae yay

on 3 bosses yay :(

[fiery fable]

still using duskwalkers on 4pc with venth?

[limber lion]

yes

[kindred rapids]

does deathspike work on dummies

don't see an extra bone

[wide bolt]

might have to get in combat with them first?

[hollow nexus]

so i have 2 set, what would be the second leggo besides unity

[winged basin]

I was told “snapshotting” doesn’t exist anymore?

I’m happy but confused

[subtle tundra]

its only intentionally introduced for deeper play

its not a general thing

feral has it, i've been told warlock has it

[brazen zodiac]

WOOO SOCKET BOYS

[subtle tundra]

warlock on some legendary or whatever

[twin kite]

Any reason to not craft unity on belt?

[uneven hamlet]

I dunno how much more dmg sub will be ahead with this new thing

[subtle tundra]

as i said, its not a general thing

[wide bolt]

if your current belt has BiS stats and the item you have in another slot is really bad

[winged basin]

Obviously the people here are way more knowledgeable. I don’t discredit anyone I’m just confused

[subtle tundra]

im not sure how it works either, but what vendetta does is keep the dot as it is after it ends

so your 8 second vendetta dot stay 8 and doesnt go to 16

and it might, not sure, keep all the buffs it had at that time

thats something @limber lion should know

or whispyr

[trim raptor]

What is our soulbind/conduit set up for venthyr 4pc dbl lego then?

[subtle tundra]

in a BiS setup, wrist is better
but thats months away
im going belt since my wrists are 278 with socket while my belt is 259

[twin kite]

yea same

[limber lion]

Yes, our 4p Vendetta snapshots haste

Normal Vendetta does not and neither does anything else in our kit other than Exsanguinate which we never play

[subtle tundra]

it was very intentional aswell

[wide bolt]

Oh I see the increased bleed tick rate effect on Vend from 4p snapshots whatever our haste is when Vend is cast

[twin kite]

So I guess we wanna try and refresh dots late in vendetta then

[wide bolt]

So if you have more haste when casting Vend your bleeds have more ticks

[limber lion]

Yes

[ripe gulch]

is there a guide on how the rotation changes with night fae 4 piece?

[limber lion]

By reapplying them late in the vend you get full value from the high Flag stacks as well

[subtle tundra]

if i have like a 10 sec rupture at the end of vendetta and no ct, which do i use? i seem to go into that situation quite often

[kindred rapids]

It's weird that the 4pc snapshots haste and not just the doubling effect

[limber lion]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[kindred rapids]

imo

[limber lion]

Wowhead and Method both do

[limber lion]

Yeh that's just kinda feelcrafty stuff at that point

They're such niche scenarioa, there's no right answer

Usually you want to reapply rupture/garrote at 0-1s of Vend without overlapping the pandemic too much

But that's not possible everytime

[subtle tundra]

sometimes happens that i want to ct, get enough cp for rupture and miss the rupture

[limber lion]

Extending Rupture is the biggest thing thoufh because the lobg duration allows for more enrgy regen

[wide bolt]

@limber lion is the new flag/snapshotting stuff on raidbots?

[limber lion]

The snapshotting is, but my rotational changes are not

[manic pebble]

we craft leggos in ring and wrist slots right?

[subtle tundra]

really hard to pin down what you can do and what not, and play vendetta optimally

[limber lion]

So the rotation is very clusterfucky

[limber lion]

Yes

[manic pebble]

👌

[ripe gulch]

oh just read the pin

[wide ridge]

any luck on yall vaults? only garbanzo here

[ripe gulch]

so we go venth?

[strange python]

With this new tech, Night Fae is no longer the best single target covenant.

i wanna scream so fucking loud y'all have no idea

[limber lion]

Sure

[frigid kestrel]

We refreshing CT outside of Shiv windows too yea?

[limber lion]

No

We refresh CT

Everywhere

Even during Shiv

And Vend

[frigid kestrel]

Gotcha

[ripe gulch]

and we play ct on st

[manic pebble]

what new tech?

[limber lion]

Yes

[frigid kestrel]

O shit because of the Shiv 2PC

[ripe gulch]

giving me late bfa vibes

[frigid kestrel]

Im Stupid af

[limber lion]

[strange python]

i have no idea bro im not into theorycrafting 😄

[median silo]

#readthepins

[manic pebble]

oh ok

[strange python]

i just play whatever Ceverion and Whispyr tell me

[grim hornet]

!oil

[prisma monolith]

Using consumables will increase your damage, however the difference between oil/stone/potion combinations are very minor (within 0.5% of each other). You can sim the difference for yourself by pasting this pastebin underneath your /simc input, in the "advanced sim" section of raidbots: https://pastebin.com/Lbxc7afJ

[ripe gulch]

are there sims for venthyr with this new tech ceverion?

[winged basin]

Appreciate you as always @limber lion and shout out to koji for figuring this cheese out

[limber lion]

That's how we find gains

By simming it

But no public sims for now

[ripe gulch]

how much is the gain relative to nf

[limber lion]

300 dps

[ripe gulch]

big

[spice spire]

[strange python]

wait tho, its Nadija on ST right ?

[limber lion]

Or Theo with haste tea

[strange python]

so if no haste tea, switch to nadija

[limber lion]

Ya

[ripe gulch]

well i lvld nf renown for nothing 😂

[wide ridge]

theotar triple potency?

[strange python]

i know all about haste tea, i get it all the time on sub

[trim raptor]

Nadjia with 3x potency or dauntless?

[strange python]

dauntless makes the most sense

[ripe gulch]

yeah

[trim raptor]

Not sure if lethal poisons is required for the build?

[limber lion]

Always DD

[ripe gulch]

idk about the viability of lashing on sin

[trim raptor]

Gotcha

[ripe gulch]

i never get 30 flag stacks

feels like a waste sometimes

[limber lion]

Always Lashing

[subtle tundra]

lashing is so good bruv

[strange python]

me too, but if we constantly get 20 and over 20 i think it should be good

[limber lion]

Lashing is what makes Venthyr good

[spice spire]

We have legit 2.5 good conduits.
And lashing is one of them

[ripe gulch]

yeah ik

but feels like lost value not getting 30 stacks

thats why iwas looking forward to nf

[limber lion]

?

The sim never gets 30 stacks

And it's still bis in sims

[ripe gulch]

i know.

[subtle tundra]

you know the sim is the same as the game...

[ripe gulch]

im not saying its bad

im saying

it feels bad

so we drop wps?

[strange python]

well yeah, compared to the combo point generator god, subtlety, it does

[subtle tundra]

i dont get it...

[strange python]

but its still good, no

[subtle tundra]

its bis

you never change it

[upbeat needle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[ripe gulch]

do we drop lethal poisons or well placed steel for dauntless

[oak sky]

Night fae dead

Oh yeah baby life is good

[wide ridge]

i was actually hyped for night fae

been playing venthyr for too long now

[upbeat needle]

wait so

we dont run nf any more ?

[oak sky]

Tbh im happy enough we get to go necro for some bosses

[upbeat needle]

😮

[spice spire]

Wtf people so hard on hating nf. Damn

[ripe gulch]

i was looking forward to nf too

[oak sky]

I was excited for subt though

[ripe gulch]

playing venth for too long

[subtle tundra]

nf is still really good. simming yourself will give you the best answer

[oak sky]

Shame thats dead

[limber lion]

Again, reminding yall

That Necro is still best for most fights

Venth only good on a few

[brazen zodiac]

isnt it necro for majority

[oak sky]

Yeah but we already knew necro was good

[wide ridge]

where my 4p blizzard

[spice spire]

Did we?

[oak sky]

Yeah lol

[spice spire]

Y’all band waggoners

[upbeat needle]

Wait when did this change tho

[spice spire]

Except Cev who enjoys all

Except kyrian

[oak sky]

Kyrian sin is nasty bro

[spice spire]

Because he’s the most based rogue in this channel

[spice spire]

I find mfers like u real interesting bro

[oak sky]

300 dps gain sounds like closer to sub

So haste snapshot is just related to the end of vendetta shit right

[limber lion]

No

Everytime you reapply bleeds it snapshots

During Vend

It snapshots when yoy press Vend

And during it

But it's not really something you need to think about

[rapid prism]

this is going to sound noobish. But what do you mean by snapshot?

[limber lion]

Just press the buttons in the right order and it plays itself

[limber lion]

So let's say you get 30% haste from Flagellation. You press Vendetta, and now those bleeds have 30% haste as well.

When the Flag buff drops and you get back to 0% hadte, the bleeds will retain the faster tick rate of 30% haste

Until reapplied again or the bleed drops

[upbeat needle]

rip NF

[rapid prism]

and this snapshot for flag applies to vandetta or bleed reapplies. for the duration even if the buff falls off?

[limber lion]

If you reapply a 30% hasted bleed with a 14% hasted bleed, it will overwrite the snapshot with the new 14% snapshot

[limber lion]

Yes

[ripe gulch]

ye

thats what snapashot means

[rapid prism]

mindblown

❤️ ty

[oak sky]

Cev is the end of vendetta thing dead then or am i misinterpreting

[limber lion]

No, you still want to reapply all bleeds toward the end of Vend because that's when yoy have the most stats

Flag buff lasts for 24s, Vend lasts for 20s

You press Flag 3s before Vend

So reapplying toward the end of Vend allows for maximum haste snapshot overhang

Nothing changes rotationally during Vend

But we just include the snapshots in the sims now as well

[mossy cloud]

I must have missed something, but why are people suddenly saying NF is dead, what changed ?

[limber lion]

[ripe gulch]

pin

[grim tangle]

so much for the night fae prophet...

[ripe gulch]

yep...

[oak sky]

Yeah I was thinking about it just wanted to make absolutely sure

[limber lion]

Yupyup

We still don't play around Euphoria

But technically you could if it lines up well

[oak sky]

Ofc

[dim tide]

Ermmh, whats new in pins? Last new message i Got is from 9 march

[limber lion]

Reload Discord

[dim tide]

Ty

[onyx raptor]

so subterfuge is also ded?

[oak sky]

At least i get my deeper fix on necro

[limber lion]

On ST, yes

@onyx raptor

[onyx raptor]

❤️

[wide ridge]

stat wise, whats the worst tier peice we have? shoulders? cause vers+mastery?

[slow marsh]

shoulders are higher ilvl

[wide ridge]

ah true

[sturdy merlin]

During 4p vendetta windows, you still use CT over envenom outside of shiv @limber lion ?

[slow marsh]

You should be asking that the other way around imo

[wide ridge]

he said we always refresh ct now, even inside shiv window

[sturdy merlin]

Mb didn't see

[limber lion]

CT > Envenom

During and out of Shiv/Vend

[sturdy merlin]

you just env during MA then ?

[limber lion]

Not even

You press Envenom if yoyr SnD is about to drop or you have all 3 bleeds running and none are in pandemic

[wide ridge]

damn my boy envenom is in shambles rn

the fall from grace

[thorny nest]

Anybody knows if the timewalking weekly can drop tier?

[limber lion]

It does not

[sturdy merlin]

Ok, i wasn't sure since you say to cast env during MA window in your pinned msg

[thorny nest]

Thanks

[slow marsh]

Env was inflated a bit by dashing frost

[limber lion]

Yes, that's because yoy have all 3 bleeds up at that point

[strange python]

nf die? 🧐

[wide ridge]

nf ded

[strange python]

all that torghast...

[sturdy merlin]

👍🏻 thanks

[drowsy parcel]

still play subterfuge as necro on single target yeah?

[slow marsh]

It's still fine for movement so if you're a fan you can play it ig

[sturdy merlin]

I'm gonna try NF tho, i was so hyped for this

[ripe gulch]

you still go duskwalkers and you still have unity

so you definetly can

its like 300 less dps

[plain zealot]

I rlly dont like MfD. Hope its fine to play this with Vigor / Deeper too? 😅

[ripe gulch]

mfd is a must for venth imo

[slow marsh]

good luck

trying to play venth w/o mfd

[wide ridge]

i didnt like mfd either

it grew on me tbh

now if blizz could give me my damn 4th piece that'd be great

[ripe gulch]

i like mfd a lot

[strange python]

(Vend - Shiv - Vanish - Muti - Env - Muti) i did this a bit differently.. i was doing vend shiv mutilate to five, vanish env muti env

[craggy oak]

So with the relegation of envenom, what replaces wps? We use lashing, and wgat

[limber lion]

Lashing and LP

[ripe gulch]

good, my wps is still 252 lol

tired of playing sub

sin time

[sturdy merlin]

Only 2 potency ?

[limber lion]

When playing Nadja, yes

[strange python]

nadja > theo?

[sturdy merlin]

And with Teo what's the move

[limber lion]

haste tea

[spice spire]

Haste tea

[limber lion]

3 pot

[sturdy merlin]

we go wasteland propriety ?

[limber lion]

never

[strange python]

bro there needs to be like updated info written somewhere theres like a million new questions lmao

[limber lion]

haste theo > nadja

[strange python]

oki

[ripe gulch]

still not public

but there will be from what i understood

[wide ridge]

20% tea I see

[strange python]

it will make it easier on cev to not answer a trillion questions lmao

[ripe gulch]

we could have found this out a week ago tho before i grinded nf 😅

[spice spire]

When something new is found, all CFs are good about providing info in real time

[pallid bough]

I am sure info is being updated in the #assassination-faq

[spice spire]

This was also the case last tier with both MFD and frost shards

[pallid bough]

It was just discovered very recently

so just gotta be patient

[strange python]

yeah for sure, i just feel bad asking cev like 20 questions

thats all

lo

l

[viscid spear]

Got belt, looks like I'm putting on Dashing cloak again

[spice spire]

That’s what we’re here for

[strange python]

: )

[viscid spear]

Imagine double Obed

[spice spire]

30 second flags

[strange python]

so what are cds going to look like here, with 1 min vendetta and 1:30 flags

[oak sky]

Im 3p boys leech chest in vault

[spice spire]

We have obedience now

[fierce wind]

is necro still best for 2 target cleave?

[onyx raptor]

you're gonna have 1 min flags too

[spice spire]

So it should line up

[spice spire]

Pins

[strange python]

oh wait obed makes it 1 min'

[spice spire]

BIG PIECE HOMIE GRATS

[fierce wind]

ooooh new pin

[strange python]

whhoops

[ripe gulch]

gratz

[oak sky]

Actually best possible result, now i just need shoulders or head from raid sometime this week and im good

[onyx raptor]

prolly like usual if it's less than 10 seconds stack it, if more than 20 seconds between them just dump them? just a guess toh

[slow marsh]

Like 1.10

[strange python]

okok

so it lines

[spice spire]

Ayo phrasing?

[strange python]

i still dont have 4p but good to know

[limber lion]

It's safe to just use Vend/Flag together everytime

[spice spire]

All the same we love to see it

[limber lion]

Just make sure to do the rotation right

Flag - Rup - MFD - CT - Vend

[oak sky]

Bro if andy gives me head

[spice spire]

Bro?

[viscid spear]

[slow marsh]

Did we resim the new stuff with full send everything just to be sure cuz venth is dumb like that ?

[limber lion]

Yes, doesn't work

[slow marsh]

Cool

[spice spire]

Koji on some omega demonic rn

[slow marsh]

So the waste in dusk cdr is fine to hold still

[limber lion]

The stacking of all of the parts is too good

[oak sky]

Full stack vamp

[slow marsh]

Ye figures

[oak sky]

Zamn

[uneven hamlet]

so now we full burst-obe shiv- full burst?

[limber lion]

I would recommend tracking Thrill Seeker if you're not doing that yet

[uneven hamlet]

or just full burst-fullburst- full burst

[slow marsh]

What about on longer fights? Is there a certain # of extra casts that makes it better to not hold ?

[limber lion]

On some fights you might get resets from adds

and you can hold for like a few seconds to slam cds with Euphoria

[limber lion]

Sec

[restive falcon]

so we just rng now hope we get tea form theo and if nto we play nadja

[limber lion]

Sure

[limber lion]

This is a 10 min sim

[restive falcon]

nf is shit now rip

[slow marsh]

Cool ty

[sturdy merlin]

I guess at this point it is too early to ask, but is Pantheon trinket still bis ?

[slow marsh]

Probably

[ripe gulch]

anyone know the id of the bone spike dot

so i can track it on plater

[slow marsh]

Especially if you hero on pull

[ripe gulch]

there are 2

[limber lion]

other one is sudden fractures

but yeh can't remember

[ripe gulch]

im not using sudden fracturres

[limber lion]

alright well then the second one is the active portion

[winged basin]

So my understanding is we get to basically play like nylotha sin again

and that’s hype asf

[ripe gulch]

so first one is dot?

gotcha

[winged basin]

I freaking loved nylotha sin

[ripe gulch]

i loved bfa sin in general

echoing blades

[limber lion]

I have to say that the current iteration of assa rogue is much harder than the 8.3 one

[ripe gulch]

in m+

[limber lion]

so if you're a fan of a challenge, then that's great news

[winged basin]

Yeah, my brain is malding looking at everything you said, Im gonna be horrible for a minute

[limber lion]

Vendetta cdr with Duskwalkers
Flagellation cdr with Obedience
MFD resetting
Haste snapshotting
CT on single target

[obtuse robin]

sin basiclly plays how i was already playing it with ct st, just apply bleeds b4 ven ends and ct in openner

[limber lion]

a bunch of stuff

[ripe gulch]

yup

and no adrenaline rush to give haste now 😡

[winged basin]

Are we gonna gonna get a tldr guide in faq when the time is right?

Cause obviously this is still something fresh

[ripe gulch]

ok i cant get the plater to track bone spike

ffs

i put it tracking both ids

none of them show on the target

[tiny dagger]

hate/crit for legos?

[ripe gulch]

shit thats a good question

assuming i wanna play sub and sin what stats do i get on unity

[limber lion]

I just use a script to track it and color the nameplate

[winged basin]

Prob crit vers if you play both

[limber lion]

Crit/vers

[ripe gulch]

yeah same

but i like seeing the debuff above the nameplate

[limber lion]

haste/crit if you only play assa

[ripe gulch]

the plate turns dark green

[limber lion]

but

why

if your entire nameplate turns a different color

why would you need to clutter the debuffs with the icon

[ripe gulch]

idk

-_-

[strange python]

pressing CT in single target only with vendetta right

just making sure

[limber lion]

Lol no

You press CT

everywhere

always

[strange python]

wait what

[limber lion]

as much as possible

[strange python]

since when

[limber lion]

since forever

[strange python]

o-o?

[ripe gulch]

since bfa

[limber lion]

before you didn't press CT in single target during Shiv

[agile osprey]

Anyone else craft a unity for each spec?

[limber lion]

but with 2p you press it during Shiv as well

[strange python]

i had no idea

[ripe gulch]

nah i like not being broke

[limber lion]

you never played CT on single target though

you only press CT if you have to spec into it for other reasons

[strange python]

wait okay thats what i mean

alright

[ripe gulch]

when you play ct on st you always press it on cd

[limber lion]

but now we play CT on single as well

[ripe gulch]

same for 8.3

no cd

[strange python]

so keep CT up in ST at all times is what im hearing

[ripe gulch]

on pandemic

[limber lion]

As much as possible

without sacrificing gar/rup/snd

[strange python]

alright

damn >_>

now i know

[winged basin]

Oh word? I play CT now that I have 2pc

LETS GOOOO

[brazen zodiac]

pandemic timing for ct?

[ripe gulch]

3 seconds iirc

[obtuse robin]

2 sec

[brazen zodiac]

figured 2 or 3 thx

[limber lion]

2 during Vendetta that is

4 outside of Vend

with 4p

[hollow nexus]

what do we go with 2 piece and double leggo

legendary wise

since duskwalker is only after 4 piece no?

[winged basin]

probably sim dashing and obed

Oh wait

Double leggo

I’m dumb

[lyric crater]

intrestiing vamp may be bis again for sin

[hollow nexus]

yea so my current obedience will go to unity 😄

[limber lion]

Just sim it

It's either Doomblade, Dashing or Bloodfang

[hollow nexus]

bloodfang looks fun

[restive falcon]

so we dong use dusk leggo anymore?

[lyric crater]

um what about dust lego

[hollow nexus]

havent used that at all and was looking at it yesterday, might be nice since its something different

[limber lion]

bruh

[limber lion]

bruh

[limber lion]

bruh

[plain plaza]

4 piece guys scroll up

[limber lion]

literally

[winged basin]

He said without 4 piece

[limber lion]

the guy asked

about 2p

[restive falcon]

im in a key atm

[wide ridge]

bloodfang? sheee

was that leggo ever good

[winged basin]

so uhh, time to ask Cev a dumb question for fun, 2pc changes just adds mfd and single target CT to our rotation?

[loud light]

well there was that one beta patch when a decimal place was wrong and it did 10x damage

[winged basin]

or is that also a 4pc exclusive or do I ask the sims

[wide ridge]

sounds fun

[timid cloud]

BLOODFANG???

No shot, real?

[loud light]

mfd is just a venthyr thing, not 2pc

[winged basin]

Word, well I got 2 pc today so if the move is for me to swap to mfd and CT for raid that is so cool with me

I love single target CT

[slow marsh]

atta boy

[winged basin]

275 holandrus legs

[slow marsh]

I got a socket today for something i'll get in coming weeks. Real exciting stuff

[winged basin]

Ooooooooh pog

[strange python]

lihvum dagger for me

lihuvim*

upgrade so i cant complain ig

[winged basin]

Aye Gratz, I need to farm mists this week

[sturdy merlin]

Can someone remind me what's the pandemic window for CT please

[limber lion]

4s outside of Vend, 2s during Vend

[spice spire]

3.6s

[winged basin]

How are affixes this week anyways? Push week? Or hard week

[white wind]

what other leggo do we use with unity as venth?

[limber lion]

sim it

[timid cloud]

All weeks are push week.

[limber lion]

Duskwalkers with 4p

[timid cloud]

[limber lion]

Dashing/Doom/Fang without

[slow marsh]

i have 2p and it's still dusk

[celest drift]

wait wait wait, we'r staying venthyr now? holy ballz

[winged basin]

Lol

[real solar]

imagine not staying venthyr the whole time

[winged basin]

This is the chaos I’ve missed

Discord is gonna be wack for like a week atleast

Prayers go out to the boys in green

[lean fossil]

@limber lion so ct is the play for st due to the quicker ticks during vendetta?

[limber lion]

something like that

not really

but sure

[slow marsh]

CT was already the play after 2p

[lean fossil]

@limber lion you still going to stick to necro?

[strange python]

idk if i missed it, but for assassination M+ with 2p double lego, we go venth with what legendary?

[slow marsh]

zold

[strange python]

ty

is necro overall better tho?

[limber lion]

literal pins

yes

necro is better

[timid cloud]

We're still doing Unity to wrists, yeah?

[strange python]

i cant see the pin

sorry

[limber lion]

yes

[timid cloud]

I wonder what ||stats|| I'll go then...

[slow marsh]

idk maybe not vers crit?

[timid cloud]

I multi-spec, so idk

[limber lion]

crit/vers for multispecing

[slow marsh]

well then maybe vers crit

[limber lion]

crit/haste if only assa

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

[slow marsh]

or assa outlaw for the 3 people still playing it

[spice spire]

This tier is just weird

[hollow river]

Are you tier set gaming now

How was the vault

[solid venture]

🦀 NF IS DEAD 🦀

[spice spire]

Won’t know

4 more hours

[slow marsh]

same

[hollow river]

Ah you at work too v

[spice spire]

2 set already

[hollow river]

Same

[spice spire]

Always on the grustle homie

[hollow river]

I have 3p

[slow marsh]

i need chest or helm still

[hollow river]

Pray for me

[spice spire]

6-4:30 m-f

Aiming for 3 today

[lean fossil]

same, gl to your vault!

[spice spire]

Doubt but hopeful

[slow marsh]

my vault was cursed

[celest drift]

So, 4p is Unity on Wrist and dusk on ring right?

[hollow river]

I need chest or gloves

[spice spire]

I need chest, head, or legs

Tonight is lfr unless legs in vault

[hollow river]

Doesn’t new wing of Lfr open today?

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

[hollow river]

Which tier boss

👀

[void karma]

lihivum

[hollow river]

Noice

[craggy oak]

Any info on openers/rotation into vend/flag windows for AOE/2T with new venth sims. Or number of ruptures to put out.

[celest drift]

and for the necrochad, unity with?

[hollow river]

Duskwalkers if you have 4p

Zoldycks on boots if you don’t have 4p

[celest drift]

alright

[hollow river]

?

[celest drift]

cry in 1p

[storm belfry]

My rogue got one piece of tier

[fading wigeon]

I have to go weapon here right?

[verbal radish]

Is there any indication of how big a DPS difference the new Venthyr 4p approach versus the old NF 4p recommendation

[balmy condor]

sack is okay

[fading wigeon]

oh I am so torn, the sims say its about 200 dps above with weapon , gah what do i do lol

[balmy condor]

the sack is 200 above weapon?

[fading wigeon]

sorry I worded that wrong, the weapon is 200 dps above

[balmy condor]

oh

well then take weapon obviously wtf

[soft merlin]

take wep for sure

[fading wigeon]

ok lol

[strange python]

what stats does that weapon have

[fading wigeon]

I knew i was over thinking it

haste mastery

on weapon

[strange python]

not bad

[timid cloud]

Weapon.

Sack is shit on anything but pure ST

Add 1 other target, it's a mastery stick.

[fading wigeon]

lol you guys sold me on the weapon

gg

thanks all

[viscid spear]

Can you salvage the Unity belt for mats?

[balmy condor]

no

[viscid spear]

So if you recraft it you have two?

[balmy condor]

yeah

the 265 can't be destroyed in any way from what I hear

rots in your bank I guess

along with the legion artifact weapons

best friends

[pure moth]

yeah it doesnt even let you put it up in the box to destroy it

[hoary isle]

ye my bank only used for stuff that cant be destroyed , all besties

[hollow river]

There’s stuff you can’t destroy lol

That’s toxic

Give us limited bag and bank space: here’s indestructible items kids

[pure moth]

its like we have 3 though.. cuz alot of us had it on cloak, so now belt and wrists

[amber fossil]

what's the best way to sim for aoe multi mobs? Patchwork, 3 boss, 2 mins?

[pure moth]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ab2rqmKchfScfiVpS37K5W looks like dashing/unity until 4 set for dusk

[tiny ember]

any sims for this new vent shenanignes with abusing hasted bleed

[hollow river]

If you’re simming for m+ gear just use dungeon slice

[hollow river]

Uwotm8

[amber fossil]

ty kindly

[tiny ember]

check pins

[balmy condor]

raidbots.com

[tiny ember]

I mean any thaty you did bro ❤️ maybe some on stream ❤️ I'm still at work so kinda can't do them right now

[balmy condor]

nah

I don't have any

[hollow river]

LOL

[limber lion]

If you sim yourself now (with 4p and double lego), you should see Venth at the top

[tiny ember]

unfortunante guess I'll have to wait until i get home

[hollow river]

NF and Necro dreams both vanquished yet again

[limber lion]

No

Necro still lives

Necro

bis

[tiny ember]

let necro die

[still pewter]

Fuck necro

[hollow river]

[spice spire]

🛑

[verbal radish]

Do we have an idea on how big of a damage difference between 4p NF versus 4p Venth?

[hollow river]

^necro

[craggy oak]

Sim in raidbots between the two

[timid cloud]

Why bloodfang btw, Cev?

What makes it so special?

Cause it's amped by 2P?

[limber lion]

Sure

I mean it's probably still worse than Doomblade/Dashing

But it's worth to sim

You'll never play it anywhere ever

But it's a fun thing to sim

[brazen zodiac]

haha

[hollow river]

I wonder if Sword is better with 4p vendetta than axe - from Cache

[strange silo]

do you guys think its intended to snapshot or will they fix it coming the next days/week?