assassination

[slow marsh]

ye we had two 4% wipes

[timid cloud]

Refresh bleeds, don't spam FOK

[cunning needle]

so use it once at the start of the Aoe Phase and then back to envenom?

[timid cloud]

Full bleed both.

Don't spam CT.

[cunning needle]

kk

cheers mate

gonna start heroic lords tonight

and sub is a bit poop for that fight

[timid cloud]

I'm a big dumb dumb, I should've went Deeper Strat.

I had Vigor on from Sin M+

Sub 2T cleave is notoriously horrible.

Pre-tier*

[cunning needle]

yeah

though I do have 4set

but assi still probably better

[balmy condor]

4 piece doesn't save sub on 2 target

[oak sky]

[timid cloud]

But it's still playable, technically. It's not gonna make it Arms warrior level.

Right?

[timid cloud]

I did a Sin key. I got gaslit.

[cunning needle]

that's what an Assi shill would say!

[hollow river]

well we downed riggleton

and 1/11M

no 4p drop

[clever kindle]

[oak sky]

isnt arms warrior giga sick on lords

[timid cloud]

Yeah.

Like we know Sub is shit for 2T but the tier makes it LESS shit. even if only by 1%

Lol

[hollow river]

agreon

[oak sky]

true

[timid cloud]

But it will not make it as good as Arms, is what I'm sayin'.

[hollow river]

how much dps have you done on lords

[oak sky]

havent killed it on heroic

[hollow river]

oh

[oak sky]

we failed last night

[hollow river]

sheeeeeeesh

[oak sky]

and im missing our monday raid

[hollow river]

damn

i see some people have killed it with like 14k dps

and not even 2p

i did like 10.5k as venthyr

with 2p

[oak sky]

idk how much I'll do honestly

you can seriously get fucked by mechs

and its kinda hard to know since zold doesnt get full value until the boss is dead

its just constantly increasing your dps

other thing to think about is the longer the among us phase the lower your dps

[gusty mirage]

why are you playing venthyr with 2pc?

[hollow river]

because i'm a sub main now and not swapping for every boss

[hollow river]

very true

my necro is like 60 renown

hopefully closer to useful after i do this weeks campaign

we might do some OT this week to get aotc

[gusty mirage]

we didn't even bother

[oak sky]

yeah no point doing aotc for a while at least

like until everyone has 4p

[gusty mirage]

we cleared rygelon tonight and then went into normal tier bosses

[oak sky]

we ended up doing heroic reclear and normal tier bosses on tuesday then anduin and almost lords yesterday

[hollow river]

the mace is pretty good

[oak sky]

ye but not better than tier

[hollow river]

sure

[gusty mirage]

still no 4th piece, other rogue still has 0 pieces

[hollow river]

its OT man

[gusty mirage]

[hollow river]

for whoever wants to

[oak sky]

yeah but it fucks their vaults

[hollow river]

not mandatory lol

[oak sky]

🤔

[hollow river]

i kinda doubt it

[oak sky]

and I'm gonna be hardstuck at 2 for a long time

[hollow river]

i think tier has a hidden loot pool from vault

extra chance type shit

the amount of tier we've gotten in our vaults is insane

[gusty mirage]

it does

[hollow river]

yeah

[oak sky]

i havent seen vault tier yet

[hollow river]

i had 3 pieces of tier in my first vault

[gusty mirage]

I've gotten 2 of my 3 pieces from vault

[hollow river]

same

[oak sky]

i got 2 natty

from heroic

[hollow river]

i got traded 1

i have 3p

[balmy condor]

damn

[hollow river]

other rogue got his 4p natty tonight

[balmy condor]

imagine

getting tier

[hollow river]

he's about to blast off

[oak sky]

couldnt be me

i now

will miss our lords of dread kill

and then miss probably our whole reclear next week

[glass tulip]

im getting gear diffed rn and im mad about it

[lunar otter]

#nosetgang

[balmy condor]

hey you and me both man

I'm still 258

[lunar otter]

Me 2 :(

[glass tulip]

257.75

[lunar otter]

[balmy condor]

look at this ilvl gap bro

most my raid just straight up 6-7 ilvl up

pain

[lunar otter]

Get of the sub train whisp

[slow marsh]

Their damage doesn't match up tho

So at least you have that

[echo geyser]

minalbafel is actual juicer tho sheesh

[slow marsh]

Yours is a lot more consistent than mine

[echo geyser]

i mean ilvl doesnt mean too much

someone could have 260 and 4p

[balmy condor]

it means I don't do damage

[slow marsh]

Ye like that 257 dh

Has 4p

[timid cloud]

Whispyr doesn't want to stop damage.

He wants to DEAL damage.

[wide ridge]

the strat is so stay low ilvl to parse higher on ilvl

[amber fossil]

is there any info out there for 2 legos and no tier for the peeps like me with shitty drop rng? Will have unity memory tomorrow, but only have 1 tier pc. Currently necro doomblade 262 on back and 262 zold on legs

[slow marsh]

Dang how do you get unity tomorrow

[clever kindle]

you wont get unity for another 2 resets

[amber fossil]

125 to Revered

[slow marsh]

False this coming reset

[clever kindle]

you have to complete a quest along with revered

oh is it this reset

[timid cloud]

Yeah, the upcoming one.

[amber fossil]

well smack my ass and call me Judy

[slow marsh]

Yeah the back to back heroic weeks really throws off the timeline huh lol

[amber fossil]

but still, If I dont get at least tier 2pc what do I do

[slow marsh]

You play venthyr

It's in the sheet in pins

[amber fossil]

maybe I missed it then, dont recall seeing 2 lego info only

[slow marsh]

Ye scroll down a bit on the left side

But I think the Sims themselves are expired

[amber fossil]

oh, I see it now ty. Necro is last in this case

I did get NF to renown 80, but not Venth. I guess I will play NF for a bit then go back to Necro when I get 4pc

[lucid birch]

whos that pumper disc.....

258 cause 213 trinket kekw!

[bleak sky]

Minalbafel seems like a decent player but is super tilted

[lucid birch]

kinda tox yea

hate to see it

[slow marsh]

It's cuz he's a havoc main

The toxicity comes with it

[spice spire]

True

Man went from a based Sin main and has fallen below even sub main.
Now he’s just a DH. Unfortunate

I see the correct color truly is present @bleak sky

[glass tulip]

balanced trinket boys

heroic anduin intermission lol

he immediately shot from about 11k to 36k

[bleak sky]

I'll soon hop off of wow and be colorless

not even beige

[spice spire]

Papi

[past bobcat]

Should I be leveling necro or nightfae if I plan to play sin for Proto and Dread?

[spice spire]

Proto and dread? NL

[past bobcat]

I do have 4 piece, just wondering for next week with the addition of double legos

[brazen zodiac]

hitanner

[glass tulip]

Tanner finally found it

You son of a bitch, you did it

[brazen zodiac]

LOL

[slow marsh]

That would mean not raiding for 69 hours a week tho. I don't believe you can do it

[bleak sky]

I'm this close to deleting wow

(this close = get CE, reclear a few more weeks, get io, get decent parses)

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

#1 rogue in the world - IO

[bleak sky]

ramfam I'm coming for you

[subtle tundra]

Ram who?

[spice spire]

Ramzam mage main

[oak sky]

tru

patiently waiting for the day

[gloomy knoll]

@spice spire do y'all still have that night fae opener that used to be in pins

[spice spire]

Let me see if I saved it rq

It was lost in time

The APL should have it correct but let me see if I have it in the vault

[oak sky]

gar snd ambush mut rupture sepsis vendetta shiv etc no?

[spice spire]

Im almost certain that’s it

But I gotta make sure

[gloomy knoll]

didn't you sepsis rupture

and then shiv

so shiv buff was up for the pop

[oak sky]

i think technically you can sepsis inside shiv during vendetta

[spice spire]

(Assuming 4p, which is the only time you’d run NF ST) vendetta speeds up sepsis so it’s fine

Yeah @oak sky was right on the opener

[oak sky]

hm

[gloomy knoll]

oh yea that's true

[cunning needle]

with 4piece and on 2target cleave (lords)

are you supposed to just keep maintaing bleeds and barely envenom

[spice spire]

Essentially

Envenom is your filler finisher,
Maintaining all of your bleeds is top priority

[cunning needle]

thanks

trying to figure out the opener as well

is getting rupture up or snd a higher priority?

[oak sky]

snd

[spice spire]

^

[cunning needle]

kk

last Q, is delay shiv for 6-9 seconds on opener to get it to line up with vendetta fine as well?

[oak sky]

yeah your first shiv should be with vendetta

[cunning needle]

sweet, thanks for help

haven't played assi in ages

[bleak sky]

snd is giga damage, huge prio

[lunar otter]

ok ive got shit gear but um no lie vent sims higher dungie slice

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hBsUhQMvxrjqHiGuBPKXHC

some one halp

[zinc frost]

Your sudden fractures conduit is 145 i believe

Oh a resimmed with a 265 fractured conduit and it’s like 20 dps difference lol

[thick furnace]

Hi guys,
One Question i just cant figure out myself:
Vendetta is increasing my damage to the target by 30%.
Also for the Bleeds which are already on the target or only for the bleeds i put on the target once vendetta is activated?

[bleak sky]

already on the target

[thick furnace]

thank you

[lunar otter]

@zinc frost ye it sux bruh

thought necro was a decent upgrade on cleave etc

[slow marsh]

It is. Dslice slightly prioritizes the boss damage so it makes sense venth would sim slightly higher for you

[lunar otter]

what single target lego DB for necro ?

[torn atlas]

Is there a condition in sims to cov stack for Elegy of the Eternals, or is it just never good anyway?

[vestal wren]

can do it even more if you put in priority_rotation=1 😛

[strange python]

doing +20 streets as assa

should i go venth or necro?

venth obedience, necro zodyck

any thoughts?

[indigo mulch]

[strange python]

i got 2pc tier as well

reckon necro?

[spice spire]

I like Necro over venth for mailroom boss which seems to be the hardest boss in the place

[hollow river]

Why mailroom

Because of the mechanics?

[limber lion]

I would just play Necro Zoldyck everywhere with 2p personally

it's very dank

[spice spire]

Because his whirl does an asinine amount of damage so you’re better off popping defensives on a tyrannical week

[strange python]

Does anyone have a empowered garrote wa?

[jade minnow]

Most of popular UIs have it

[umbral rapids]

lmfaooo

[lunar otter]

Where does sbs conduit drop

[clever kindle]

maybe lihuvim, somewhere around there

[spice spire]

In raid, it drops from pantheon

As with all other covenant conduits

In dungeons, it’s PF or top iirc

[lunar otter]

Yeah ez

[strange python]

was 2mins off

sadly

[brave quiver]

Thinking of switching to from sub for Pantheon and Lords of dread. Not used to multi target bleeding. I quickly get lost in the sauce. Any tips for multi target?

[strange python]

ended up going sub for it

definitely didnt time bc i wasnt assass 😉

[spice spire]

100% the reason, no one can tell me otherwise

[lunar otter]

@vestal wren you rekon run assa as venth in keys then or go hard necro ?

[empty hinge]

Just play sub in keys, you can run necro assa in ToP and SoA

[spice spire]

Necro assassin is for more damage, venthyr is for more prio damage

Or you needed the venthyr/Necro buff

Also Necro Sin PF is stonks

[lunar otter]

ye sub pf sux

[frigid kestrel]

!defensive

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Defensives usability: http://tiny.cc/q602uz

[spice spire]

If you have more stuff please do submit. I have a round of additions to do today

A large round

[gusty mirage]

Hello mr Bos editor, can you add something to the Bos

Can you add

[spice spire]

Fuck

[errant swallow]

Every boss in the raid?

[clever kindle]

add

[spice spire]

That was specifically responding to m+ questions

[errant swallow]

My bad, I was out of the loop and read that.

Thank you.

Sorry.

[spice spire]

All good was just here to clarify

[errant swallow]

i appreciate it

we'll see how things goes when people start getting 4pc and double legos

[spice spire]

Oh it’s duskwalkers

Not a question, minute vendettas are disgusting

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ddtTMgbRxaobG5rnVPJYg7

Small gain

[errant swallow]

Oh yeah, mine is crafted already. Can't wait, not enjoying sub this tier.

[spice spire]

Removing people from the sub ranks

[errant swallow]

lol

[gusty mirage]

When the vast majority get to mythic halondrus you’re about to be a sad puppy

[spice spire]

Oh dude

Halondrus is int to run as assassination

But it’s a good thing all I know is inting

[gusty mirage]

I’d argue so is mythic anduin

[errant swallow]

When most people get to Halondrus he will be already nerfed af

[spice spire]

I think with 4p it’s in a fine spot

But I do think sub is better overall

For Andy

[lavish hazel]

Even for halondrus

[gusty mirage]

That’s only because fok sucks balls

Tbh

[lavish hazel]

You cant miss basics its really strong as sub

[errant swallow]

I would play assassination all 11 bosses if I could

[spice spire]

Anduin was the one fight where I didn’t curse fok

It blessed me

So I’m forever hardstuck 2cp foks now

[sonic schooner]

1cp fok back to back 😔

[spice spire]

You can, sub is just better in some places

[errant swallow]

the problem is, it's WAY better in some places

[gusty mirage]

Enough targets and you’re bound to crit at least 1

[spice spire]

True

[timid cloud]

Should I even bother making Doomblade?

[spice spire]

N

Do you have 4p soon?

[timid cloud]

2P gamer only.

I am not getting much value out of it either in M+

Since I’m only soothing on enrages.

(Joking, please do not do that.)

[spice spire]

Strike 1

[timid cloud]

Ya boy never loses a shiv cast.

Unless it gets parried.

[nocturne geode]

worst feeling ever

https://tenor.com/view/deepwoken-parry-dodge-block-sleepwoken-midwoken-gif-24630523

[real solar]

@gusty mirage hi

[gusty mirage]

I miss you

[real solar]

😄

[grand marten]

Do we just post our link to logs here if we are interested for someone to review for sin?

[pure moth]

Yes

[spice spire]

Yes

[slow marsh]

Sure

[grand marten]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hD6JtN39MqwK4XyP#fight=33&type=damage-done&source=6

Specifically I think I need some help with my opener and how to handle some of the interplays while running CT/Necro/Subterfuge/Zoldyck. I know some of my issue is probably more to do with my UI and getting it set a bit better to handle all of the juggling, but I wouldnt be surprised if I didnt have some glaring mistakes in spell priority or what not.

Also, with the 4 pc. would it be better to try to shift to a pure ST mode (as i did here) or still try to keep dots up on both?

[woeful cipher]

Following this cause I also did 11.7 last night, and had this same question regarding the 4 PC

[grand marten]

At least it makes the fight that much more fun @drowsy patio lol

[placid cobalt]

sorry guys, any particular reason to put unity on wrist and not belt

[gusty mirage]

jailer belt

[placid cobalt]

oh makes sense

very long term play then i guess

[gusty mirage]

• all bracers from raid kinda suck

yea

[balmy condor]

Pure st

[late birch]

!plater

[placid cobalt]

i already got 278 wrist from my lucky vault so i guess i'll go belt then for now, when i get mythic one from jailer ill craft again 😄

[restive falcon]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4j5zNbL3SksoXejB3YfQV4

i bought the bracers few days ago for unity but i resimmed, should i put it on another piece of gear

[echo geyser]

If ur rich why not play the best combinations

[restive falcon]

i mean im sorta rich lmao

i mean i chest put it on chest piece but the tier chest is crit/vers which is better than haste/mastery gloves

and best belt is crit/haste form jailer/skolex and no good crit/haste boots in raid

[lean coral]

gonna do a key as fae sin do i still do dreamweaver?

[slow marsh]

korayn for keys

first strike op

[lean coral]

aight

gonna try and pug a mists to get fae conduit

wish you could loot it as other cov

[pure moth]

Buy the thing from korthia.. then swap to nf to get it.

[gusty mirage]

you can buy the 239 conduit thing from haven

if you're revered

[nova flax]

Get 3k io and buy the 278 conduit item

[pure moth]

Its 3k now? I thought it was like 2500

[hollow river]

It’s been 3k since PTR

[pure moth]

Ok

[hollow river]

Close to all 20s

Iirc

[pure moth]

Fair enough

[rotund oak]

Mr @limber lion sir,had an iqd drop from dos today and now that ive got first sigil im thinking how we actually go with two ''on use trinkets''.Do we actually open with our 1st VD + first sigil,2nd VD iqd?Or is there some other tech im missing

[manic pebble]

bruh we're going down

[slow marsh]

I mean yeah

[spice spire]

Low volume + not all have 4P + boomer spec

[nocturne geode]

where the sync logic for shiv pinned

wheres

[slow marsh]

also a lot of sin gamers just playing sub in general

[spice spire]

For NF?

[nocturne geode]

ye

[spice spire]

Vend+sepsis+shiv (opener)
Shiv (around 0:30)
Vend+shiv (1:00)
Sepsis+shiv (1:30)
Vend+shiv (2:00)
Shiv (2:30)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (3:00, repeating the cycle)

You still want to follow the sync logic of “if you won’t lose a cast”, which may result in some simulations holding either sepsis or vendetta. This 30 second shiv cycle is still consistent with that, for example:

Vend+sepsis+shiv (opener)
Shiv (0:30)
Vend + shiv (1:00)
Shiv (1:30, holding sepsis 30 seconds for vend)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (2:00, using the sepsis here)
Shiv (2:30)
Vend+shiv (3:00)
Shiv (3:30, again holding sepsis)
Vend+sepsis+shiv (4:00, with the fight ending before 4:30)

The second example requires a fight of between 4 and 4:30, but the logic can be extended to sync the final sepsis with the final vendetta of the fight in general. Keep this in mind depending on your kill times next patch

[lean coral]

k that fae key was not that fun

got my conduit tho

[limber lion]

No secret tech, just slam on cooldown with your cooldowns

[nocturne geode]

ty

[hollow river]

Run a Quick Sim and look at the APL

[oak sky]

Trinket 1 will always be used first

So you have to check each one

[hollow river]

Ooh good to know

[stark pier]

hello, i have a question . Should i allways have combopoints ,in the vendetta phasse, when i use vanish(master)?..to crit high with my execute..or is this not necesserary to build combopints for that situation

[slow marsh]

it doesn't really matter but ideally you would want to vanish mut envenom mut just for cp efficiency

at least until 4p. after 4p that changes

[flat cradle]

Hey team, could i get away with doomblade lego instead of dashing until i get 4pc and need to recraft dusk?

[stark pier]

thx

[slow marsh]

np

[flat cradle]

Ty!

[spice spire]

Yeah

[slow marsh]

I get that lords isn't necessarily as guaranteed to be a sin fight in terms of raid comp but it's still weird to me to not see it in right now

[oak sky]

Rogue out on cleave cuz sin isnt good enough on 4t pantheon or the aoe phase for dread

[hollow river]

Other classes better

[oak sky]

Do they have a shitload of warriors

[slow marsh]

just 3

4

[oak sky]

Imo arms is clearly the best melee for lords

Like its not even close

[slow marsh]

actually it makes sense cuz wars pump during swarm and have exe

[oak sky]

Insane at 2t and also solid aoe

[slow marsh]

4 wars in wft group and 2 surv hunters + dh + frost dk

[spice spire]

Yeah that’s why you have no rogues

[slow marsh]

we actually are simply outclassed by wars and surv hunter this tier

[oak sky]

Mmm

Rogue is like 3rd best melee imo

[hollow river]

On cleave yeah

[oak sky]

This is just an aoe/cleave fight

[spice spire]

I’d be surprised if we don’t see rogues in for rygelon

[slow marsh]

but like every fight is aoe / cleave fight

[oak sky]

I bet jpc is back on rygelon and jailer

As sub

[spice spire]

Him and/or exileh

[oak sky]

Ye

[slow marsh]

I mean I hope so but i'm defo starting to get doomer vibes from how cracked war stacking + enh sham seems

[oak sky]

You mean imexile

[umbral rapids]

for sure

[oak sky]

Wdym its not gonna matter for your prog

[slow marsh]

both of those classes get so much more than we do from double leggo too it's not even close

Ye ik i'm just saying in general

[oak sky]

They nerfed fury 2leggo

[rotund oak]

FCM going higher than IQD https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sqGrrFdrHVh1BFARybx4o1

kekw

[slow marsh]

I mean yeah but that doesn't change a whole lot

[oak sky]

Makes it closer to sub 2leggo

[slow marsh]

they just go arms and play venth

another 11% leggo

[gusty mirage]

remember when obedience was too strong for being 11%?

Pepperidge farm remembers

[oak sky]

Yes

1% vers Smoge

[slow marsh]

exactly

[oak sky]

Rogue cant be good

[slow marsh]

that's what's giving me the doomer vibes, not that rogue wont be fine cuz it will

[oak sky]

Not fair to other melee

[slow marsh]

it's more that why is this being allowed

[gusty mirage]

our feral brothers also got shafted

[oak sky]

700% ap aoe bleed

Rip

Now its reduced past 8 and less ap right

So their st sucks their aoe sucks

[gusty mirage]

yup

feral fucking sucks now

literally all their damage was the tier set

and it got gutted

lmao

[oak sky]

They shouldve let hippo put feral in swamp ass on max's tier list

Why did tettles get to rate feral

[gusty mirage]

why does tettles get to rate anything

[oak sky]

He exists + boomkin

[slow marsh]

cuz clout obviously

[gusty mirage]

every boomie I know despises him

[slow marsh]

You don't need to have credibility if you have clout

[oak sky]

max couldnt bring in goop

[spice spire]

Venthyr arms

[oak sky]

Or sang

Because it was no liquid allowed

Community tier list

[limber lion]

but it was already nerfed at that point

it's goner

only nerfs

[gusty mirage]

should've brought in Ceverion-Stormreaver to rate all the specs

[limber lion]

no buffs

[gusty mirage]

smartest guy I know

[oak sky]

He gave it a c instead of swamp ass

[limber lion]

probably pretty biased list

[gusty mirage]

• more handsome than tettles

change my mind

[spice spire]

Ceverion tier list:
Asssassination S++++++
Sub B
Outlaw D
Every other class: F

[gusty mirage]

Outlaw tier will get a buff

[subtle tundra]

realistically speaking

assa is atleast SS+++

but im being a bit conservative aswell

[umbral rapids]

[frigid kestrel]

That’s a pretty low rating for Sin dawg

[fiery fable]

what missive for zoldyck

[vestal wren]

my tier list:
Subtlety: Fuck rng
Outlaw: Uncap me
Assassination: Necrolord enjoyers

[slow marsh]

Crit - hast/mastery

Don't worry guys we'll be getting smoke bomb in 9.2.5

[vestal wren]

10.0

oh wait, no time, will need to wait for 11.0

[spice spire]

Based list

[vestal wren]

tbh, i rly think rogue needs to get something

currently still in this weird spot of not getting played if not tuned rly insane

[slow marsh]

It's because we're just outclassed by a mix of war + enh sham

[kindred rapids]

yeah, feel kinda useless this tier

[spice spire]

Warrior being prime ST + rally is

[vestal wren]

war, enh, survival

dk

[slow marsh]

dk is whatever i'm happy for them rn. you wouldn't want to take more than one frost imo

[hollow river]

We have 2 frost

[slow marsh]

Surv just blasts in any cleave situation cuz of bomberman and they get funnel on bombs with adds

The issue is like what quake said that war has insane ST + lots of util

[vestal wren]

it would feel a lot more satisfying if assassination would blast other melees on 2+ target cleave

[spice spire]

So it’s literally just a rogue spot

[vestal wren]

and sub could compete in aoe on anduin

or outlaw

[slow marsh]

Ye the issue is like what we're seeing right now on lords

[vestal wren]

rogue seems to be in a single target niche

[slow marsh]

you can't bring sin

[vestal wren]

with 3 specs competing

[slow marsh]

cuz the dog shit swarm mechanic

[hollow river]

Each rogue spec having its own “niche” for aoe/cleave is kinda pathetic IMO

Sin being 2-3, outlaw 4-5, sub 5+

Yet they suck at it compared to other classes that do comparable ST

Kinda dogshit tbh

[vestal wren]

it is fine

if you have like:
sub burst aoe /sustained high target

and outlaw/sin more sustained

[hollow river]

And everyone else still beats them all

[vestal wren]

i like the idea to be able to change damage profiles with spec

ye, ofc the big issue is when some specs/classes outdo every niche

[hollow river]

Me too but I’d like it to be more meaningful I guess

[vestal wren]

like ye sin is good in cleave

[hollow river]

I switch to sin for pantheon and lords and get out dps’d by passive cleave specs

They don’t even have to work for it like sin players do lmao

[slow marsh]

Every fight you would think is a sin fight this tier is actually just an arms fight instead

[hollow river]

Exactly

[kindred rapids]

kinda feel like our tier got overhyped a bit in ptr

[nocturne geode]

[kindred rapids]

it needed to be better than it is for us to be competitive

[slow marsh]

I feel like we get punished for having really good tc's that figure things out long before they hit

[hollow river]

Nah

[hollow river]

Nah

Double leggo is where we fall

[kindred rapids]

meanwhile other communities sandbagged

[hollow river]

Our tier is insanely good

[slow marsh]

Vs other classes / specs that act stupid and then all of a sudden figure it out after it's too late cuz blizz doesn't balance specs until .5 patches

[kindred rapids]

not good enough

[hollow river]

It’s literally more than good enough

Our legendaries are simply subpar

[slow marsh]

The issue is that rogue has to break through more obstacles than any other classes

[kindred rapids]

so? our legendary values were already baked in

[slow marsh]

So in order for rogue to be really good we have to be tuned super high

And people complain that we get super high numbers

[hollow river]

Yeah and tier sets had a power budget they were aiming for

[indigo mulch]

Doomblade vs zoldyck on dreadlords? I think doomblade is slightly higher right?

[gusty mirage]

people complain about rogues all the time

even when we fucking sucked in 9.0

[slow marsh]

ye

[gusty mirage]

"still need a rogue for shroud in m+"

like cool dude

[indigo mulch]

And do we run heimer or kevin? =o

[hollow river]

They were aiming for all tier sets to be roughly ~10% dps increase

[gusty mirage]

I'm here for shroud

[kindred rapids]

you can't just look at tier in isolation, it needs to be balanced around the state of the whole spec

[hollow river]

Our tier set is way over 10%

[gusty mirage]

which can be replaced by a potion w/ a shorter CD

[slow marsh]

Like literally last night this huntard was complaining about how many tools I have as a rogue

[hollow river]

Then don’t say our tier is bad

[gusty mirage]

yeah because if it got tuned down even lower we'd be awful

[hollow river]

You can’t budget even more power to our tier

[slow marsh]

and i'm like wtf you just press aimed shot aimedshot rapidfire and do 20 bajillion damage

[kindred rapids]

I didn't say it's bad, it's simply not good enough given the state of rogue atm

[hollow river]

So you’d aura buff rogue or buff their legendaries

[brazen zodiac]

hi guys good morning

[hollow river]

It’s that simple

[gusty mirage]

they could've left the 2pc at 100% and we'd still do less damage than other classes

that's just the rogue life

[slow marsh]

ye

[indigo mulch]

But 100% was abit to much

[kindred rapids]

except blizzard clearly wasn't looking at doing any of that.

[gusty mirage]

oh I'm not disagreeing that 100% was too much

[kindred rapids]

the tier set was the primary knob they were tuning for balance

[gusty mirage]

but compared to what we're seeing now from MM hunters

[hollow river]

Except they have done that for other classes

[gusty mirage]

we'd still get smoked

and they're target capped

[slow marsh]

I mean even when sin 2p was 100% in ptr still got beat by a certain spec that was untouched and is really popular right now

[indigo mulch]

Mm hunters cleave is insane

And they sont even have to work for it.

[hollow river]

We’d be way too insane right now before double leggo if our tier was even better than it already is

[gusty mirage]

fury warrior?

[slow marsh]

demo

[kindred rapids]

in some imaginary world where blizzard is likely to aura buff sin again I'd agree

[indigo mulch]

[gusty mirage]

yeah no shot sin gets another aura buff

[slow marsh]

yeah they can't

[kindred rapids]

but that's not the world we're living in mate

[indigo mulch]

Nah

[gusty mirage]

they already gave us a bajillion between 9.0 and 9.0.5

[slow marsh]

it would break stuff

[hollow river]

I mean it’s unnecessary

Sin is middle of the pack

That’s fine

[indigo mulch]

Sin will not aee any buffs until next tier haha

[gusty mirage]

in the grand scheme of things, yes it is unnecessary

[indigo mulch]

Next exp

[gusty mirage]

but when it comes to getting a raid spot for rogues? it's very necessary for our specs to be top damage

[kindred rapids]

middle of the pack melee with no utility? just feels useless

[gusty mirage]

all 3 specs have specific "niches" and we're dogshit at those too

[umbral rapids]

true

[hollow river]

You could be a feral main

[slow marsh]

middle of the pack

[kindred rapids]

the classes entire niche is damage and nothing else

[gusty mirage]

feral at least brings a brez and off heals if needed

[kindred rapids]

and sin at least isn't keeping up

[hollow river]

Do you even have 4p

[kindred rapids]

I don't even have 2pc

[gusty mirage]

I'd take these numbers with a grain of salt

but yeah

[indigo mulch]

I mean everyone who has 4p swaps to sub lul

[gusty mirage]

sin is very middle of the pack

[slow marsh]

ofc it's a hyperbole to prove a point

[gusty mirage]

upper echelon of middle of the pack

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

but nonetheless quite "meh"

[kindred rapids]

I've cleared hc anduin already w/o tier

feels bad

[gusty mirage]

I got my 2pc and I still get smoked by other classes with their tier sets

so

I have to wait for 4pc to be competitive with people who have 2pc?

weird

[spice spire]

This is mythic and uh.
19 sin rogues have downed skolex and 2 on sausage.

So like

Lot of data there

[gusty mirage]

about to be 20 and 3 next week

[hollow river]

Does complaining about the tier set make you feel better about not having it

[spice spire]

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

I'm OTPing necro sin until I either quit or get benched

whichever comes first baybay

[kindred rapids]

I'd feel better if getting tier would actually allow me to catch up with other classes

it's already clear that it won't

locks are simming 13.8k already

[indigo mulch]

I wouldn't mind playing sub, but playing sub without sylv daggers feel really bad.

[hollow river]

Lol.....

[spice spire]

Also one a piece on prototype and Xymox.
34 big ones on VG

[hollow river]

I can’t speak for you personally but sin will catch up a decent chunk

[gusty mirage]

sin is supposed to be giga 2-3T cleave right?

[hollow river]

What % is 4p

[gusty mirage]

damn bro doing similar damage to an arms warrior with 2pc who brings rally and shout

[indigo mulch]

Its to much work for meh result tbh

[gusty mirage]

sheeeeesh

[hollow river]

I sim almost 12k with 2P

Pretty sure with 4p I’d be over 13k

[gusty mirage]

all the arms warrior has to do is press sweeping strikes

[kindred rapids]

well I don't know what sort of gear you have but I'm simming <10k atm

pretty sure 2pc isn't worth 2k

[gusty mirage]

don't kid yourself, there's classes that do similar damage to us with utility

[slow marsh]

Tbh the real issue is that in ST sin is upper middle of the pack and outlaw is lower, but literally every single spec that surrounds us has ways to absolutely blast in aoe / cleave situations or have just as much ST dam as aoe dam whereas we drop off pretty hard because we don't have any pay off in aoe

and i include outlaw because they have the same issue for the most part

[hollow river]

[gusty mirage]

and that's the issue we keep circling back to in SL (and BFA)

is lack of raid utility

we either do more damage than everyone else, or we get utility

[slow marsh]

ye exactly it's a fault in the base class design

[gusty mirage]

idc if I do less damage than other people, it's got nothing to do with dps numbers

those are irrelevant

[indigo mulch]

I mean they did talk about giving us raid utility at some point.

[gusty mirage]

idgaf if the sin 4pc is 50%

if I'm not top damage and I don't bring utility

why am I even there

[spice spire]

Soon ™️

[indigo mulch]

SoonTM?

[slow marsh]

and this fren is why i'm trying to gear my surv hunter as we speak

[gusty mirage]

this is why I'm considering leveling and gearing an enhance

[spice spire]

Buddy you’ve been a survival hunter main

Wdym

[gusty mirage]

wft is a net gain even when enhance sucked

so

now enhance does damage with their tier + double leggo

AND brings WFT

AND windrush

[hollow river]

Yeah I’m surprised they’re letting enhance go how it is

[slow marsh]

I was gonna do the same cuz I used to love enh

[indigo mulch]

Enha is love.

[slow marsh]

But already had hunter at 60

[indigo mulch]

Ive been a secret enha main since bfa.

[spice spire]

They’re not messing with RWF

[indigo mulch]

Atleast we get swapped in on crabby tho!

Np

[gusty mirage]

it aint a secret, everyone here is an enhance or warrior main and don't realize it yet

we just get away with rogueing because we're not in the top 50

lmao

[indigo mulch]

Lmao

[hollow river]

Wdym they nerfed Anduin by 10% so surv and enh should get nerfed 10% too right??

[gusty mirage]

I don't think blizzard expected the RWF to last until double leggo is out

and its looking like it will

lmao

[indigo mulch]

It will 100%

Im sure lirds will be another cockblock

[gusty mirage]

unless liquid and echo pull some miracle out of their ass and get to jailer by sunday

[hollow river]

Nah they could kill jailer Sunday

[indigo mulch]

Lords*

[slow marsh]

I would like to believe that blizz will even a lot of things out after rwf is over but yeah idk

[gusty mirage]

nah they avoid class changes (in pve) at least until after the RWF is over

imagine you spent a hundred hours running splits to gear someone's alt

and then blizz is like LOL JK NERFED

[lean coral]

is there like a good augment thing for the crafted pieces

the mainstat one seems like a trap

[gusty mirage]

not really they all kinda suck

[slow marsh]

The only reason 9.1 was pretty balanced was because they just tuned the extremely OP shards to be pretty equal and that mattered more than anything else for specs

[gusty mirage]

I guess the heal one is okay

[slow marsh]

and that was just 3 variables

[lean coral]

was thinking of just getting the one that makes flasks last longer

[indigo mulch]

Then again i dont think you should balance a game around wf

=s

[gusty mirage]

I agree

[hollow river]

During the race you do

[slow marsh]

Everyone agrees, including rwf. But I don't see it happening still so weird

[indigo mulch]

They put themself into those splits

[hollow river]

It is what it is

It’s good publicity for the game

[spice spire]

Thing is, they don’t balance it around rwf.
They gradually tune everything accordingly; they just avoid it during the rwf.
Like halondrus that we fight in mythic will absolutely not resemble the WF Halondrus kill at all

[strange python]

Some reason that the halondrus trinket is simming so much better than sigil?

Or cache

[slow marsh]

cuz you dont have 4p

[strange python]

I do.

[slow marsh]

then link sim

[strange python]

I'm on mobile hang on

Rerunning but I think I figured it out - I'm at 25% vers because I've been playing sub. Gotta imagine this shifts as stat weights do

[viscid spear]

What're the Sinners up to?

[hollow river]

Work

[strange python]

Arguing with my guild that sin will be good at lords of dread when second legendary is online, and that just because liquid runs 4 warriors doesn't mean we have 4 warriors

[gusty mirage]

crying

[viscid spear]

Same, on break right now

[viscid spear]

[slow marsh]

ye it's flat vers that immediately puts you into drs so makes much more sense now

[strange python]

Yeah I reran it after dropping 650 vers and it looks much more normal

[subtle tundra]

not playing sin:(

[strange python]

I'll sadly be sub till rygelon dagger :/ so basically for all of prog

[subtle tundra]

nah, sin is really good when you get 4p

in raid

[strange python]

I have 4set. Still Sims 1200 DPS lower than sub.

[slow marsh]

that's because you have 20% vers

[strange python]

Second leggo will shrink that gap. But not by enough

Nah even with the correct set on

[subtle tundra]

i sim 12.7k on both specs

[strange python]

25 haste/35 crit/8 vers simming ~12200, vs 13250 for sub with the sub set on.

[subtle tundra]

do you have duskies?

[strange python]

Yes. And gap will close more Tuesday since second leggo is much better for sin

But it's still sub favored

[subtle tundra]

am i the only one that sims bad on sub or what

"bad"

the same as sin

[strange python]

Two daggers? Kyrian?

[subtle tundra]

yes.

[strange python]

Weird.

[slow marsh]

seems like a talent diff or something to me but idk

[subtle tundra]

i also despise kyrian sub

[slow marsh]

cant say cuz no sim

[subtle tundra]

i have only played kyrian sub with windfury and i cant hit the animacharged cps at all

it just goes over them immediately

[strange python]

Takes getting used to for sure.

The 2cp can be a pain in the ass with 2pc procs

[subtle tundra]

i didnt have any pieces when i played it

it wasnt that

i imagine its worse now

[strange python]

It's okay I had to play kyrian sub all night on artificer then they decided to put me on the platforms 3 seconds before a pull after a full night of being boss zerg dam

And got pissed at me when I explained that it was a bad idea to do so without letting me go venth

[subtle tundra]

im sin even on xymox

[viscid spear]

🧙‍♀️

[wide ridge]

same

[limber lion]

Any Sepsis enjoyers?

[glass tulip]

no

4pc Andy over here flexing on us

[echo geyser]

any st sim?

[kindred rapids]

No, I know only suffering

next week's gonna be my week I'm sure

[wide ridge]

damn sepsis on a 1:30min cd doing that much?

[limber lion]

Nah, it's just the first Mists boss

[wide ridge]

ah

still lots of dmg

[wide ridge]

you're using dusk?

[limber lion]

ya

[limber lion]

I'm a noob, only 13.3k simmerinos

[gusty mirage]

do you give lessons?

[echo geyser]

big juice with 2x lego on reset?

[limber lion]

press button a lot until hand hurt gg ez grats

[limber lion]

Around 14.3k with double lego

Pretty dank

[echo geyser]

[clever kindle]

Is that close to initial sims? obviously we arent in BIS gear yet but curious how things have changed since initial impressions

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

Fae with better gear is around 16k

So still got some way to go

[clever kindle]

Gotcha, and yeah at that point I guess that makes sense with pure stat upgrades but maybe we find some secret tech later

[limber lion]

Yeh, I personally just have a lot of old gear that needs replacing

All the SOD gear, a phial, better AA ring from CoS next month and so on

[clever kindle]

278 AA ring

[obtuse robin]

man im still wearing like 5 sod items

feels so bad

[clever kindle]

im not even 260 ilvl yet

[hollow river]

@kindred rapids see here

[clever kindle]

unlucker, duplicate item from the 4 mythic 0s last week, got a duplicate drop in raid for tier

[hollow river]

[storm belfry]

if we wanted to do NF in keys whats the soulbind, korayn or DW

[wide ridge]

i think korayn

might need confirmation from the big d ones

[limber lion]

Yes, Korayn

[clever kindle]

I think it would be korayn that shits busted for new target gameplay

[limber lion]

Korayn feels really, really good in keys

Especially with the new affix

You get to refresh First Strike on the Urh mob that spawns

[subtle tundra]

ok dont bait me into playing nf

in m+...

[clever kindle]

that crit probably feels great coming off of last patch and having lost so much

[hollow river]

[wide ridge]

you mean Wo?

[obtuse robin]

[subtle tundra]

if i dont double eviscerate with the group i play we get random

[clever kindle]

Wo has some uses, probably not in a completely optimized key though, but maybe

[wide ridge]

AHAHAHAHAH same

[clever kindle]

since it has damage reduction

[wide ridge]

new affix = gamba

[subtle tundra]

imma play sin with them tomorrow

i do more ST with sin than sub in m+ anyways

[storm belfry]

yeah NF looks fun even tho isnt venth still better in keys?

[limber lion]

No

[subtle tundra]

nf was 100 less dps in ds for me

[storm belfry]

Oh. was reading pins

[limber lion]

I mean sure

with 0p

and maybe 2p

but not with 4p

Necro stonks with double lego

[ebon notch]

@limber lion how on earth you simming 13k as assa rn

[brazen zodiac]

hes based

sup daps

[ebon notch]

suhh

how you been

[brazen zodiac]

ok ig

alive learning how to drive pretty pog

[ebon notch]

thats always good

[brazen zodiac]

r u r1 yet

[ebon notch]

been giga slacking

[brazen zodiac]

tisk tisk

[ebon notch]

motivation isnt there yet

[brazen zodiac]

rep check soldier

[ebon notch]

need to wait for cev to shit on me so i can get some more motivation

[brazen zodiac]

ive been playing like absolute dog lul

2 many rl distractions zzzz

its shadowstepping to sylv in p2 all over again

yo daps how do i play sin in pvp rq

[ebon notch]

dot them up press kidney and vendetta

then shiv and tghey die

[brazen zodiac]

cool ok

[lavish oxide]

Hey guys, can I get a fast advice of what legendary do I craft now for Mythic+ ONLY if I play both Necro and Venthyr (depends on a week and my team comp)?

And I don't think I will get a 4pc set soon, as I don't raid at all and vault chance is a joke

[spice spire]

Zoldyck’s for Necro and obedience for venth.
If you’re looking for one size fits all, Zoldyck’s

After 4p, it’s duskwalkers

[lavish oxide]

I will get obedience as unity next week anyway

[spice spire]

Oh duh Zoldyck’s then

[lavish oxide]

Sooo Zoldyck unless I have 4pc

Ok thanks ❤️

[obtuse robin]

291 stuff is so cheap bought all pieces needed just now 50k a pop

[brazen zodiac]

im so broke zzz

[obtuse robin]

well thats wat u get buying ur stuff day 1

i owe u 50k to

[brazen zodiac]

i didnt buy it day 1 nerd and i got my legs for like 75k ok

[obtuse robin]

day 1 we bought both those rings

150 k down the drain

[brazen zodiac]

so based

[obtuse robin]

u bought ur stuff day one of 291

[brazen zodiac]

so

based

[obtuse robin]

xD

[brazen zodiac]

ya gimme 50k so i can buy ma unity

[obtuse robin]

come get it then

u wont

[brazen zodiac]

probs not im eating grilled cheese sandwiches

[hollow river]

I bought 3 291s last week

[limber swallow]

only 3?

[hollow river]

For 90-100k

A pop

[limber swallow]

Might as well just go all in and get em all done at that point

you never know when tiny toxic blade will be meta

[hollow river]

Yeah I need 2 more

For dusk and zold

[limber swallow]

I've got my zolds.. waiting on ring prices to drop a bit more for dusk. I've got plenty of gold, I'm just cheap.

[hollow river]

I doubt ring prices drop tbh

[limber swallow]

also, might be nice to actually get a set piece 😕

[limber lion]

We both had 4p and I still somehow beat this dude in overall in Plaguefall without CT.

[obtuse robin]

you need 5 291?

[limber swallow]

hit 85k on A52 yesterday at lowest.. someone cleared them all out and reposted at 100+

[limber lion]

Got my phial as well

after 17 runs, it's finally over

bless

[obtuse robin]

oh right for sub

[subtle tundra]

i've been poppin 16-17k s all day on sub, that guy is dawgshit

[limber swallow]

you're not runnin CT in keys?

[limber lion]

yeah exactly

[hollow river]

Sounds like he was not a BP enjoyer

[limber lion]

I should be

but I was trolling

[hollow river]

Or just bad

[limber lion]

I was doing single target sims when I was summoned to a Plaguefall

and forgot to change my setup

went full single target

[obtuse robin]

they r 50k atm on a52

[limber lion]

deeper strata feels pretty bad as night fae

[limber swallow]

rings?

[limber lion]

let me tell you

it's great on bosses but packs, oh boy it's awful

[hollow river]

Yer

[obtuse robin]

yea i forgot u play sub to

[subtle tundra]

i just dont know how good assa is yet, all keys but one i've done as necro and its HORRIBLE
the one venthyr key i finished 14.2k on soa

[hollow river]

Rings are 125k on my server still

[obtuse robin]

yea rings r the outlier

still 100k+

[hollow river]

But yeah between sub and sin I need 5 leggos

[brazen zodiac]

xd

[subtle tundra]

how so?

should be better than venthyr

since you get korayn crit

[limber lion]

As in Deeper Stratagem feels awful as anything but Necro

starting pulls with 4 garrote

[subtle tundra]

you get used to it

[limber lion]

is a bit painful

yeh

[subtle tundra]

after ~50 keys

[limber lion]

I mean it's fine on 1-2 targets

[subtle tundra]

i got used to it xdddddd

[limber lion]

but it's just awful on aoe

[subtle tundra]

but its way more dmg

[winter vapor]

DS over vigor in keys? :C

[subtle tundra]

ds

yes

[bleak sky]

Tier set only

[subtle tundra]

nah, not tier set only

but i guess it does feel worse

and the difference is small

[bleak sky]

ds feels painful on no tier

[subtle tundra]

ok and?

[bleak sky]

If the diff is small, playing the smoother version of sin is very poggers

Just to get that extra garret

[slow marsh]

You can already get it

Just have to time it well

[limber lion]

To be fair the tier set doesn't change the feel or gameplay of DS at all

Especially on packs where you don't really get to Vendetta anything

[bleak sky]

Vendetta should be pretty low CD though right

You should have it up for most packs

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[limber lion]

If you play Duskies, yeah

[subtle tundra]

no cause i use it TWICE A PULL AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA

[limber lion]

but I mean you still want close to maximum value from it

you don't get much from a 5s Vendetta

If you're doing +25's like Varas, then yeh maybe you can Vend every single pack

[slow marsh]

Just vendetta every other pack that the hunter doesn't cd

[bleak sky]

Next week

[subtle tundra]

next week big shadowblades at the start of pulls

cosplay sub

[bleak sky]

Shb

[subtle tundra]

@limber lion curious, whats your highest skolex mythic dps

[limber lion]

Only 13.4k unfortunately

We trolled on our last kill, I was among the last 10 to be alive

[slow marsh]

If I don't get 4p from vault I'll def be trolling with double leggo in heroic/normal until I get it

[limber lion]

Yeh just try out all the sick combos you can come up with

But you'll get 4p for sure

so no worries

[slow marsh]

Ye I'm not too stressed

[subtle tundra]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[limber lion]

what about you Mr. Varas

[fleet atlas]

I quit mythic raiding this tier and am helping my buddy with his new guild that is normal raiding.... the lack of chances at tier gear is painful

[subtle tundra]

bad xd

[bleak sky]

https://c.tenor.com/y5GKDyayVpQAAAAM/gif.gif

[limber lion]

Dausagne is one of my favorite fights to play as Necro 4p

It just hurts so much

The pools on the ground do so much damage, the shield does so much damage and the splash aoe of the circle does a bunch

[slow marsh]

Everything hurts rn

And speaking of hurting I need to rearrange my entire office and setup my new desk

[obtuse robin]

show after pics

[hollow river]

There’s a lot of pretty intense damage in this raid

[obtuse robin]

the big guy aoe downstairs on andy is spooky

[slow marsh]

oh you think that guy is spooky

just wait till rygelon orb soaks in downstairs phase

[obtuse robin]

[slow marsh]

Can't wait for him on mythic

[viscid spear]

Mythic Lords is just a literal round of Among Us.
Like the fight starts and the game launches.

[gusty mirage]

bruh

those things fuck

[glass tulip]

They really do

We had 3 healer CDs rolling and I was still having to health stone and stuff

[gusty mirage]

what are they called again? Cosmic Cores?

[subtle tundra]

looked now, i did 12.2k but its fuckin iran in melee bro

it was first kill aswell

[lunar otter]

Hey bros i got no tier ywt so i stay venth ye with cape obed ?

[glass tulip]

Pretty much, that stuff is all in #assassination-faq too