assassination

[oak sky]

bro

i didnt even app to the guild that fucked me over

[drifting cloud]

well yeah but think about it: you just got bad rng by their rogue being a dumbass

if that wasnt the case and you got in, we wouldnt be having this convo

[oak sky]

glad i'm not in there

[hollow river]

My guild might be moving to zul’jin

Pogchamp

[oak sky]

cool i guess

[drifting cloud]

but yeah my gm told us very recently, since my guild is okay for a 2day one we get alot of apps

and he said it went over 1k recently in less than 1k days

over 1 app a day

[oak sky]

thats cool

[drifting cloud]

im sure a huge % of them are just never even considered its just feels like a big number

for a random 2day guild with okayish wr

[slow marsh]

Define okayish

[oak sky]

i just think its a weird old head elitist thing to ignore people that are new to the game

[bleak sky]

if ryler is kazzak eu, world 246

[slow marsh]

That's better than okayish for a 2 day

Always sandbag tho I fw it

[drifting cloud]

yeah its just the way the game unfortunately is, can be

[slow marsh]

I mean it's fine tho because if peeps are gonna be like that then I probs don't want to be there anyways

It goes both ways right

[balmy condor]

Any world 1k gamers in chat

[oak sky]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/487376171101847552.webp?size=128&quality=lossless

[gusty mirage]

naw sorry 781

[drifting cloud]

I have a very good example of that aswell lol, a friend started playing in CN and he couldnt get a trial spot in 1.5k guild

[hollow river]

1.5k 😦

[oak sky]

idk what WR i am

[drifting cloud]

now hes in like a r400 guild

[dawn ivy]

there are a special number of guilds that arent too bad, you just gotta find that route of guilds that works for you

[drifting cloud]

but alot of officers just overstate how important past raiding xp is anyways, especially if were talking about wr200+

[gusty mirage]

794 apparently

[slow marsh]

I kinda got baited a bit by my current guild tho tbh I could've gone higher with the same schedule as these guys

[oak sky]

cool

[slow marsh]

But I'm liking the vibe so it's chill

[drifting cloud]

zoomers be gaming, but they dont have 10 ces like me

[dawn ivy]

my last 3 guilds were wr 5000+, into 500, into 130. and none of them were weird about my experience

[oak sky]

I'm the zoomer in this channel

[slow marsh]

Tru

Do you even know what wrath is

[balmy condor]

No that’s @ebon notch still

[slow marsh]

Or is it just a Boomie spell to you

[drifting cloud]

I raided 4-5 days when agreon was like 4 years old

FUCK SAKE

[oak sky]

i knew what wow was like 10 years ago

[balmy condor]

Lmao old

[slow marsh]

I'm the most zoomer boomer does that count for anything

[oak sky]

bruh

u raided vanilla?

[gusty mirage]

no

[gusty mirage]

yeah somethin wrong with that?

[slow marsh]

Ok

[drifting cloud]

yeah I dinged 60 when naxx came out

[ebon notch]

ur toxic

[oak sky]

damn

[balmy condor]

Lu2bbg

[gusty mirage]

imagine not raiding molten core

[ebon notch]

i miss sink

[oak sky]

cuz i was 4-5 at the end of vanilla

[drifting cloud]

well I did raid mc, just not when it was current

[slow marsh]

I thought brd was the first raid

[balmy condor]

Verbotten

[ebon notch]

this emote is unnerving

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

[drifting cloud]

dont boom me even-older-than-me man

I played tibia before wow, I didnt jump the ship insta

[oak sky]

i have a friend thats my age that played in BC

[drifting cloud]

think I started after 1st year of HS

[bleak sky]

imagine not dinging 60 when SL came out

[hollow river]

you simmed me with Portentious Dyz

[drifting cloud]

just lvled whole summer vacation

[bleak sky]

[drifting cloud]

[oak sky]

way back then i was playing club penguin and toontown online

[hollow river]

i don't have Port Dyz oxi

that's what the difference was

[gusty mirage]

you don't have max shards yet?

[slow marsh]

I played in vanilla but I didn't get level cap until phase 3 BC

[gusty mirage]

bro?

[hollow river]

i have all blood/frost

[gusty mirage]

[slow marsh]

Notrickz abandoned sin this tier same as whisp

[hollow river]

no u

[hollow river]

ill go buy Port Dyz right now

i'm sorry

i didn't mean to disappoint you

[slow marsh]

Should I raid with some meme shit tonight or what

[oak sky]

yeah

im playing nf sub

[slow marsh]

K I'm playing kyrian outlaw

[oak sky]

im joking i think im getting KA on not kt/sylv

soooo

[timid cloud]

CAP

🧢

[jaunty stone]

So quick question, if Blindside + DS/MfD is expected to outsim EP + Vigor in pure single target, why is it that most top logs on bosses like Nerz/Guardian still stick to the 2nd setup?

[dawn ivy]

laziness

pure and simple

[jaunty stone]

Yeah should've expected that lol

[dawn ivy]

also shorter kill times favor vigor/EP i think but cant say for sure

[drifting cloud]

do externals also favor it? actually never checked

or just bridge the gap atleast

[dawn ivy]

yeah i was just checking wcl and thought about that

id think current externals would only make DS even better though

[drifting cloud]

not like the 100 dps of talents matters on a 5min 100k iterations sim

if you can just get KA and go brrrrrrr

just say you have bad BS proc luck

[unreal dagger]

i heard that its good to mutilate in stealth or something, can someone expain to me why?

[drifting cloud]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used from blindside/sepsis proc, not from stealth.
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3).
Some other factors to consider are increased poison applications, blindside, and doomblade. This is true for all talent combinations and legendaries.

[oak sky]

at this point it would probably just favor mfd

[strange python]

did faulty countermeasure get nerfed?

[slow marsh]

no

[strange python]

ok thx

[viscid spear]

toooooooot

[jaunty stone]

maybe it's the fact that i'm new to rogue but damn, EP feels so bland compared to blindside

i dare say it makes the rotation... fun

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/unacceptable-adventure-time-lemongrab-freakout-armflail-gif-5515437

[bronze pike]

blindside adds abother button, which is always fun

[versed mica]

still think blindside should be baseline

or the ability version of it during wrath

I think it was called dispatch at the time?

[jaunty stone]

it's not just the button, the fact that it gives a small break for energy generation smooths the rotation out more than vigor

[echo geyser]

isnt that ambush?

[bronze pike]

yes

but can you press it while out of stealth

[echo geyser]

[solid mica]

I do love blindside

Too bad the last boss doesnt have execute :0

[bronze pike]

[arctic walrus]

@oak sky misery

[oak sky]

noooooo

we start sylv

i dont get ka on kt sylv

apparently

i think hes gonna link me tho

[arctic walrus]

my focus magic

didnt have it applied until we got to 2nd pillar

and my 2nd priest pi died as i whispered for it

[oak sky]

lol focus magic

no shot

oh this guardian

nice

[echo geyser]

nf wouldve done 16k

[oak sky]

i think i would only be getting KA tho

[bleak sky]

only kas

poor agreon

[spice spire]

Sin rogues down cataclysmic rn

[limber lion]

filthy ka abusers

a disgusting ka user talking to another disgusting ka user

oh nevermind

it's even worse

ka/pi/fm

[solid mica]

Whatever happen to good 'ol fashioned honesty and grit

[arctic walrus]

i have to play their dumb fucking game

you think i'm happy having two separate pi macros?

[solid mica]

[spice spire]

Horrible

[limber lion]

[spice spire]

Tragic

[viscid spear]

Explain to the uninitiated (me)

[spice spire]

I assume macros to whisper a priest for PI when wanted

[bleak sky]

just get both at the same time for the mega PI

[echo geyser]

do u get ur flag down to 1min cd easy with PI?

or is that only a lust thing

[limber lion]

PI doesn't really do anything

What matters more is whether or not you crit with your mutilates.

[echo geyser]

yeye but assuming vel has KA + PI

[limber lion]

Even if you had 999999999% haste, doesn't mean you get 30 stacks every time.

crit rng is still rng

You have to pretty much crit with every mutilate to get to 29-30+

[echo geyser]

ok

Nf doesnt have those problems tho

u just blast

[viscid spear]

Yeah, and that super important free Stealth ability

[oak sky]

I aint even got KA yet ok

I'm not the enemy

Not for a couple hours

😈

[viscid spear]

I got KA once in Nathria, had to ask the Druid wth it was

[oak sky]

I seen it in keys before

[viscid spear]

Probably why I never got it again, idk

[placid wave]

What is the correct play when at 5CP and shiv comes off cooldown?

like if you go from 2 ->5 cp from a mut and then are wating for shiv cd

[oak sky]

Overcap with shiv

[carmine vigil]

Press shiv

[placid wave]

excellent thank you

[kind talon]

OH THE MISERY

EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE YOUR ENEMY

[viscid spear]

Oh the humanity

[bronze pike]

https://tenor.com/view/jinx-jinxed-arcane-jinx-arcane-get-jinxed-gif-24067801

[viscid spear]

[arctic walrus]

it's fine sylvanas is no longer my enemy she my bitch

[kind talon]

tru

i wish i had someone that loved me

[viscid spear]

You know what they say about that

[kind talon]

[oak sky]

how did u do

[arctic walrus]

it's the kind of night where you can just go check and see for yourself

no scrolling needed

[bleak sky]

rank 11 overall

god damn

13k p3

[arctic walrus]

Yeah and that was with no cds in lust cuz we didn’t communicate when

I think I lost a cast on each ability at least once

But yeah r1 so I guess I play perfect:)

[oak sky]

lets fucking go vel

EZ

i dont get KA on sylv tho

but i might on 1-8

[bleak sky]

tarra parse

[oak sky]

im out on tarra

and on soulrender

[static rock]

is iqd okay to use? or is it a sim bait?

[arctic walrus]

it's fine, some things are better, and less awful to use

[limber lion]

You're right, that big red 20 popping straight through

Unlucky.

[oak sky]

velvanas

😔

[arctic walrus]

do you believe in the conspiracy that winds crit less on the eye

cuz i definitely believe it rn

[oak sky]

yes they hit him in the immune

its for sure

its real

and true

[limber lion]

Why would they hit him on immune

[oak sky]

wait do the dots cleanse

[limber lion]

Just hit an add once

[oak sky]

because if a dot stays on it could be like sylv no?

where it crits for like 5 damage

but its the most recent crit so winds flies to eye

idk im not actually sure just assumptions

[arctic walrus]

yeah but then you'd see minimum hit 5

[oak sky]

true

[arctic walrus]

regardless r2 with 42%

[oak sky]

ok i have to raid now

[limber lion]

I hope Blizzard realises how stupid externals are before 10.0

[arctic walrus]

literally just so cringe

when every other spell

is 60+ crit chance

and winds dicked down

[limber lion]

But I guess we're stuck with em for one more year

[arctic walrus]

this is me sending my message

[drifting cloud]

why are there 2 priests piing you

[arctic walrus]

[limber lion]

R2 guardian with bad rotation

Unluck

Next time r1 fosho

[arctic walrus]

i had no focus magic until 2nd pillar real unforch

[drifting cloud]

I dont even know what focus magic does

[limber lion]

+700 dps

[oak sky]

@arctic walrus prog log fight when?

😈

[drifting cloud]

700?

[limber lion]

Minimum

[oak sky]

you guys ready to int our raids for r1 week 1

[arctic walrus]

+700 dps - 50k gold

it's a win win

[oak sky]

time to care about my parse on kt

[bleak sky]

player issue

[oak sky]

cev just cant compete

[limber lion]

Yeh, can't compete with my 12k sim against people simming 16k with externals

I guess it's time to retire for good

Bad rotation, still r1

Fails cds, still r1

Poor uptime, still r1

Good game.

[hollow river]

@gusty mirage @oak sky @slow marsh

[solid mica]

Logs should just ignore all externs, doesnt show skill

[hollow river]

i'd like to thank all the BOYS

got the mount BOYS

[limber lion]

Pull count?

[gusty mirage]

his guild killed it before

he like overslept or something

[hollow river]

yeah i slept through raid lmao

[limber lion]

Monka

[arctic walrus]

@oak sky should i keep the soulrender flawless

i'm thinking yes

[oak sky]

yeah

huge flex

[clever kindle]

does anyone have a weakaura for P2 Colossus on sylv?

for move timing with the soak/veil

[balmy condor]

move as the sky starts getting brighter

[bleak sky]

that's so poetic

[limber lion]

Literally move when the veil appears under you.

That's it

It's a massive weak aura

A dark circle in the middle of your screen

[drifting cloud]

not sure why that would require a WA yeah, you just stack for the dbm timer and move

what can sometimes happen from my xp is, if you dont have a move speed and you stack the 1st one exploding can be super hard to avoid since youre waiting an extra second ~ stacked for them to finish

[arctic walrus]

[timid cloud]

https://i.gyazo.com/81000d02ece4fe8dfe22fb449d2b8135.png

I. AM. FREE.

2nd Blade of The Nightly acquired.

[clever kindle]

I think the concern is for the possible double veil? But youre saying you guys just haul ass when the graphic goes down?

are we just overly concerned about the double veil

[limber lion]

Yes, you start moving the second it happens

[bleak sky]

yes

[limber lion]

The double veil is super rare tbh, and if it happens it falls below you once you're running

So you just keep running a bit further

[bleak sky]

hold w and win

[limber lion]

So long as you're stacked, like you should be, there should be no issues.

[clever kindle]

thanks guys

[drifting cloud]

I dont think you are overly concerned tbh like I said

without a roar it can be sketchy once every 5~ of them

[clever kindle]

I dont think weve actually had 2 veils come up yet during our attempts and moving seemed fine as long as we were coordinated about it, we were trying to hit a tiny window to move before which is technically the best

but seems a little tricky for us at least

[limber lion]

With the veils being so small nowadays, it's not that tough honestly

[clever kindle]

or that weakaura is outdated and no longer matters who knows, and yeah seems that way

[limber lion]

It was more of an issue with the previously massive veils

[clever kindle]

the soak circle is almost the same size

[limber lion]

You don't even need to gateway the veil stack during burns

You can just walk out of it

[clever kindle]

yeah i noticed that lol

were just using a tiny gateway right now for ease

[limber lion]

@arctic walrus Are you getting summoned to encounters during pull timers?

I get the cheese opener on stuff like Remnant, but you're doing it on Sylvanas as well

[arctic walrus]

nah I got a dude on the outside editing my shit

wdym cheese opener

snd prepull?

[limber lion]

Oh ya nevermind

You just mfd at like 25s

[arctic walrus]

i just mfd

yea

[limber lion]

yeh

nvm

[arctic walrus]

and there isn't a timer for it i just put it up as they ready check

[limber lion]

thought you did some wonky stuff

[arctic walrus]

and hope they pull in time lol

[limber lion]

Yeh that's what I do as well

[arctic walrus]

when you apply it and they start a timer mid ready check

[slow marsh]

classic

[limber lion]

Game over at that point

[arctic walrus]

sometimes wiping is okay

[slow marsh]

holy i had an 81k winds crit on sylv at some point

you had 117 wtf

winds nutty

[limber lion]

My best frost proc is 134k on Sylv p3

[slow marsh]

disgusting

[limber lion]

150k+ on KT, but KT

but yeh, just rng stuff

can't wait to get rid of it next tier

[slow marsh]

ye i just forget how much damage stuff does since i dont play with numbers on

[copper sundial]

12.7% winds crit rating on nerzhul tonight pog

[alpine latch]

Does anyone have the link that compares the openers?

Cev shared it the other day

nvm, it's in wow-general's pins

[toxic quail]

i had a 133k crit on Sylv tonight

and was NF kekw

[ebon notch]

on opener i guess?

[toxic quail]

i can look through log and see

[arctic walrus]

@oak sky I finally rest now and watch the sun rise over shitty abusers

[oak sky]

we caint even kill sylvanas

i might not even see KA today

[slow marsh]

msut be something in the air, took us 8 wipes to get it together. last week was easy one shot

[limber lion]

This is the third time you've said this now

We get it, you get simped

[oak sky]

i mean i never have

i was just excited i had a chance at it for once

[limber lion]

Fair enough

[toxic quail]

yeah opener bro right at 20 seconds in

[ebon notch]

sylv opener is ripe for massive frost crits

[ebon notch]

cringe not based

[limber lion]

Sylv P3 with lust, all cooldowns, potion and Euphoria/Fatal Flaw

huge frosties

[arctic walrus]

we wiped like 4 times on painsmith

[oak sky]

we been on sylv for over an hour

i didnt have like any big pulls but

we keep having shitty pushes in p2

that make it hard

[toxic quail]

shit we 2 shot Sylv tonight as me NF; coincidence!?!?!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zw1AXL3HKg8vty2V#fight=14&type=damage-done

dont roast me, im like an okay gamer

[hollow river]

i forgot to @ you

[toxic quail]

HELLL YEAH DUDE

wtffff

my man

[hollow river]

where do we trade mount tokens in for daggers

[ebon notch]

You killed sylv 6 days after fate?

[oak sky]

yeah rip today @arctic walrus

1/4 of a vendetta during lust

[oak sky]

stupid ass raid

inted 2 pulls i had crit tea now i have to run with agi

[limber lion]

Just change to Nadja

[arctic walrus]

Yeah lowkey probably why U sandbag tonight

[oak sky]

lol

that was so int

[trail locust]

@limber lion hello the night fae prophet i jsut did 4k dps in dungeon with 200 item level in mists of tirna skithe hello what is best legendarey for dungeons and where should i use them please help

[versed mica]

I'm just assuming dusk is going to be the go to leggo- what slot is it going to be crafted on?

[limber lion]

golly

[glass tulip]

I had crit tea and got benched bc my computer was too laggy pepehands

[oak sky]

we arent sure yet

[limber lion]

Very likely either your head, chest or legs, depending on where you've gotten your tier pieces on.

Ring is a safe bet and won't interfere with your tier pieces, but it's definitely the worse choice.

[glass tulip]

Isnt dusk only chest/ring?

[limber lion]

Ah yes, but the unity legendary you can slap on anything

[glass tulip]

I thought that is cov only

[limber lion]

It's likely that we'll just use Dusk on chest and Unity on boots/ring

[glass tulip]

I see

[limber lion]

Cov only?

[regal crest]

What is the best cov for m+ currently?

necro?

[limber lion]

Venthyr

[glass tulip]

Cov leggo only*

[spare flame]

Is there a support group for people who still dont have a silv dagger of any kind despite weekly murderings for 6 months

[regal crest]

Are we anticipating it to be necro in 9.2

[oak sky]

no

[limber lion]

No

[oak sky]

necro is dead

[limber lion]

Necro is dead.

[regal crest]

f

[oak sky]

[limber lion]

[spare flame]

can you all come to my heroic raid on sunday and trade me the dagger

[regal crest]

tell me its not still venthyr

[limber lion]

Venthyr is most likely the best choice for m+ in 9.2

[oak sky]

its not still venthyr

[limber lion]

NF is a good contender.

[glass tulip]

Night fae enjoyers rise up

[regal crest]

😢

[oak sky]

oh

he meant m+ only

its still venthyr

[arctic walrus]

But korayn

[gusty mirage]

korayn deez nuts on your face

[arctic walrus]

Shut the hell up you dream me weaving into those pants

[gusty mirage]

true

[oak sky]

can we just be venthyr next tier so externals dont matter as much

[gusty mirage]

I mean KA made sub rogues go venthyr w/ frost shards

so

the external whoring will continue young one

[limber lion]

Just brick the KA spreadsheets

That'll do it

[oak sky]

im so tired of it

[gusty mirage]

just brick dreamgrove and delete druid

[oak sky]

can we just like

not have any externals next expac

fuck good choices in prog

[gusty mirage]

it's good for the rpg and social elements of the game

[oak sky]

or

ooh

[limber lion]

I find it dumb that I feel annoyed at the game on a regular basis, and Blizzard thinks it's healthy

[oak sky]

make them all talents like fm that are super toxic

so then nobody will ever play them

it wouldnt be nearly as bad if PI was literally the only external

like

[gusty mirage]

p. sure focus magic ints a mages damage unless its 2 frost mages trading it?

idk shit about mages

so

[oak sky]

if its one special thing one class has its way harder to get ridiculous stacked logs

[bleak sky]

yeah but who cares about mages

[oak sky]

never bring back KA

never bring back blessing or faeries

pi is kind of ok

if its the only one

[limber lion]

Externals are dumb because they require someone else to give you more power of their own volition

I would hate to play a class that simps in a guild where everyone wants it

[glossy tulip]

I'll send nudes for PI

[arctic walrus]

I’m down 200k but parse are eternal

[glossy tulip]

I didn't grind too hard this patch at all but I went from like rank 22kish to sub 2 :D

[gusty mirage]

[hexed frost]

I'm rank 19 on EU-H Twisting Nether. I hope i can get to within top 10 by end of season

[fallow otter]

when i look at leaderboards i literally ignore the externals ppl, not interested

but thats just me

[carmine vigil]

What's opener for obedience ST?

[balmy condor]

mut snd mut gar flag rup vend shiv vanish mut env mfd env

[carmine vigil]

isnt the first gar not empowered with this?

oh yeah nvm you vanish after that

[balmy condor]

we use the master assassin talent right now, empowered garrotes are not a thing

[carmine vigil]

oh

[bleak sky]

you mean ST in a raid environment yeah Tyg?

[carmine vigil]

what about in m+ with subtefuge

[oak sky]

in m+ st you make sure you get a garrote during the 3s then build to a 4-5 cp rupture

[bleak sky]

I simmed a patchwerk with m+ talents and gear, no dom bonus to see what raidbots would do

[oak sky]

follow that with vendetta shiv then vanish when garrote is in pandemic

[bleak sky]

so if not running MA we actually can ambush?

[oak sky]

m+ is weird because lineups are inconsistent and weird

[bleak sky]

idk if this was the right move though

assuming we have everything up for a boss etc etc

[oak sky]

yeah its been a thing it just wasnt relevant

[balmy condor]

this actually just changed today

[bleak sky]

oh

[balmy condor]

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/b885703030ae7315f093d2998f2c61d67df14db2

this stuff pushed to live

[bleak sky]

so this stealthed->add_action( this, "Mutilate", "if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&combo_points<=3" );

allows us to ambush

[balmy condor]

no

[bleak sky]

the removal of that

I mean

[balmy condor]

yes

[bleak sky]

any reason why it cts so late?

late as in not getting ct rolling asap

[oak sky]

like in aoe?

[bleak sky]

no, single target

[oak sky]

bruh

u mean with tier set?

[bleak sky]

no

[oak sky]

well without tier set

[bleak sky]

live stuff

[oak sky]

you wouldnt press it until shiv is over

[bleak sky]

yeah but something something get bleeds in shiv window even if it's not ideal

or am I misinterpreting that

[oak sky]

ct doesnt give you energy

so it matters way less

[bleak sky]

Oh true

darned ct not giving energy

[oak sky]

if it did

it would probably just be bis always

[bleak sky]

it's the second time this week that ct misguides me into thinking it gives energy

sneaky bastard

[oak sky]

yep

ct in st ends up being kinda low because you do a lot of shit before you press it

maintain rupture envenom in shiv etc

[timid cloud]

I WISH CT gave energy for the bleed.

It'd have to be redesigned for it like if it was Feral's Primal Wrath ability where it puts Rips out, but in our case, it'd have to be Ruptures.

[oak sky]

no

[timid cloud]

Yes.

[strange python]

Does iron wire need to silence the enemy for the DR to trigger?

[past belfry]

so I just got my frost set completed tonight and sims are still telling me obedience is a bit higher than dashing scoundrel... am I missing something?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aFEctGJFTPgzezwfnotojQ

[timid cloud]

Yes.

[timid cloud]

IIRC it’s kill time dependent & also since your gear is lower technically it’s is probably still better than your Dashing since you haven’t hit the crit requirements for Dashing with Frost to pull ahead.

[past belfry]

ahh okay

and also, is there a point at which playing deeper strategem doesn't feel terrible?

sims tell me to run it, but it just feels awful to not play vigor

[timid cloud]

Only in ST should you play BS/DS

Pure ST.

[past belfry]

yea

actually if I switch to DS, my sim tells me to switch to dashing

[timid cloud]

Anything other than that, EP/Vigor or EP/MFD.

Dashing makes it feel better.

But every opener besides EP/Vigor feels slow, UNLESS you do start the fight with a fully stacked Alacrity & Slice, or obviously Lust.

[past belfry]

hmm okay

[safe wigeon]

Is CT worth using in single if I've taken it for an add fight?

[glossy tulip]

I'd assume you're better off pumping more envenoms.

[slow marsh]

Don't use CT on st if using dashing. If obed then you keep CT up outside shiv

[timid cloud]

It’s only worth it if you’re hitting more than 1 target.

[safe wigeon]

Just seems wrong not using it most of the fight :)

[timid cloud]

But yeah. With Dashing, never use it in ST, unless you’re gonna have a lot of downtime off the boss for that window.

It’s not that far off from PB in terms of damage. Because PB hardly procs or is worth much damage at our current gear.

[carmine vigil]

with both using obedience, sub rogue does more ST than sin in m+ ?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[lilac cloak]

yo werent we talking about nf assa the other day?

looks like a new friendship shall be forged

[balmy condor]

Yep

[lilac cloak]

dont laugh its higher bond than enha now

[balmy condor]

What?

[lilac cloak]

druid bond

is very high value on ur spec

gj

[balmy condor]

Oh

Well yeh

I don’t think it beats enhance

Cause enhance is like crazy crazy

[lilac cloak]

by 6dps it does 🙂

[balmy condor]

[lilac cloak]

on bond value*

[balmy condor]

How high is enhance

Cause when I simmed it for fae it was like 1350

[lilac cloak]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1baQypWt2RjCYvtRQ7T5fPXqK18FeZON9XtR-LRvSGXo/edit#gid=718361547

take this and go to the right most sheet

[balmy condor]

Oh oh

You mean including the boomy dps

Yeah

Okay

[lilac cloak]

yes

bond pooling and all that shit

pure rdps

[balmy condor]

Sure

It’s still going to be mostly a parse whore thing though

[lilac cloak]

ye prolly

[twilit storm]

why fan of knives dont hit all near enemies many times?

Shuriken Storm always hit all

[midnight atlas]

it does

it just generates 1cp no matter how many you hit + 1 cp for every crit

[ebon thorn]

Y'all just play with triple m+ vault and never get phial?

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2VVQ3qwCLpfJjjJsZbyWcz

pain

So i've had 75 ~ vault slots and not gotten it

[arctic walrus]

Yeah bro same

All good though, next week for sure

[ebon thorn]

yes man

next week for sure

[willow cloud]

Its farming NF renow a safe bet for 9.2?

[hoary remnant]

I would get all of them up to 80 and finish the story.

[carmine vigil]

sub also does more aoe than sin? so no good reason to play sin in m+ for dmg right?

[strange python]

Does sub deal more dmg on st?

[carmine vigil]

whispyr said yeah

[timid cloud]

All Hail Whispyr.

Our Lord & Savior.

Some say, he can do no wrong. His words? Law.

[vestal wren]

sub set will get nerfed tho, so who knows

[strange python]

!opener

shit

I just wanted to check opener with MFD

Will try it tonight

[leaden garden]

is sub alot better than asa? thinking for pve content in general, both raids and keys

[quasi ledge]

Not "a lot" better, no. You're probably just better off trying both and playing what you enjoy most or play better

[winged moss]

if sub get nerf assa probably will be better on st?

[junior rampart]

Oh NF enhance simming highest.

[strange python]

where can I check the MFD opener? I mean how many seconds before pull should I use MFD for SnD?

[quasi ledge]

25 seconds before pull to MfD and Slice within the last 10 seconds

[arctic walrus]

Before pull? You don’t unless you can wait 20-30s otherwise use it during ma window when you vanish

[strange python]

pull 25, guildies gonna kill me

[arctic walrus]

You can also just constantly be applying it before you pull

Like sit on hitting ready on the check

[quasi ledge]

We have a Sub who asked for 20 second timers, so I asked for 25 and got it :)

[arctic walrus]

Until it’s close to being up + pull timer

[quasi ledge]

You can kill the pots before a few bosses in raid for combo points to Slice before pull

[strange python]

for example on sylv

[quasi ledge]

Sylv you'll need 25

MfD instantly at 25

[hollow river]

Ye I just got my Fate kill on farm. Had to sit out due to internet issues the night we killed it.

[opaque mauve]

Is it true Kindred affinity will bug the dagger ? My guild has no pallys

[hollow river]

Has to be a tank’s affinity

[opaque mauve]

From a bear ?

[hollow river]

Yeah

[opaque mauve]

Cool thanks

Should be quite a big gain right ?

[arctic walrus]

Eh

[hollow river]

The dagger bug? Not as much for sin as it is for sub no

Should be a couple hundred dps

[potent dagger]

@balmy condor Hey mate , just got a litle question , don't you think that the addition of the set bonus will shift our stats ? It's seems to scale incredibly well with mastery for us assasination rogues , don't you think we could achieve to go like Crit/Mast ?

[limber lion]

More like 600+

900 for sub

Still a very sizeable amount

[spice spire]

[limber lion]

We will likely want a combination of all 3 stats, being haste/mastery/crit

We won't be stacking one stat as aggressively as now.

[quasi ledge]

What bug? Just makes the daggers proc more or something? :p

[limber lion]

#tc-research has the answers, gotta scroll a bit though

[potent dagger]

Hmmm ok would have think that mastery would have prevail over haste cause of the 4 set bonus

Thanks Cev 😉

[limber lion]

Haste also increases the damage we do with our bleeds, just by increasing the tick rate instead of the actual damage.

But yeah, stats are still kinda whatever. Just use whatever highest ilvl gear you can get your hands on

[potent dagger]

Yeah but with nadija , and alacrity we already got a good base of haste

and flag

But ok just a mix bag of all the three stats

[limber lion]

Who's saying we're using Nadja?

Or even playing Venthyr at all?

;)

[potent dagger]

Lol

Going Fae again ? ^^

[limber lion]

We're playing NF

Yes

[potent dagger]

On nya i assume

[opaque mauve]

The return of the fae, More renown to do -_-

[spice spire]

Dreamweaver iirc

And korayn for m+

[hollow river]

Pfft

[opaque mauve]

Not the dreaded pod !

[potent dagger]

Dreamweaver ? Oo

Damn , that's a change Oo

[opaque mauve]

They should make a cancel button for that, locking you in position can get you killed 😂

[limber lion]

But if podtender procs, that means you should have died already

[spice spire]

The pod tender solution is a very easy one, just don’t die to stupid mechanics

[opaque mauve]

Cheat death would of saved me haha

[viscid spear]

#tc-research. Jaunary 6th is when it's first brought up

[quasi ledge]

Aye I found it, thanks :)
Mid trying to persuade our Guardian to go Kyrian for me 😏

[spice spire]

Unethical

[thorny pond]

very

[alpine latch]

@spice spire Come over to Alliance and slum it with my 2/10M guild. I'll buy you candy...

[limber lion]

But yeah, gotta admit that cheat and pod both procing at the same time is not the greatest

but that's what happens when both read "if you would have taken lethal damage, then..."

[alpine latch]

Oh shit, they both proc?

That's awful

[limber lion]

Not every time.

Just sometimes

[alpine latch]

I remember that being a tank issue too - sometimes their trinket would proc and their actual CD ability would too

[desert inlet]

elusiveness pod?

[limber lion]

Or Lethal Poisons

[spice spire]

3/10 slumming rn with my guild, not much better.
But my guild hella chill, love the homies
Plus no guild should want me garbage rogue

[limber lion]

Get dps and healing parses at the same time

[alpine latch]

lol

[spice spire]

Leeching poisons

[limber lion]

wtf yeh

oops

[alpine latch]

Master Poisoner + Leeching Poisons + Blood set = GG healing parses

[spice spire]

Still lower healing than this tier

[spice spire]

Too many LP abbreviations, king.

[limber lion]

Yup, not as bad as DS thankfully :P

[limber lion]

Frost is actually considered more healing than Blood

[alpine latch]

We should have had The Nine last night. I'm sad we only got Eye for a new kill this week

[spice spire]

True, DS on sub

[alpine latch]

Oh right because of the shield

I keep forgetting how strong that is healing wise

[spice spire]

The nine is just coordination, it’s actually miles easier than the eye

[alpine latch]

Yeah, our healers were just tired by the end of the night

We got some good pulls on it. We'll be 3/10 next week

[spice spire]

Happens, I griefed a heroic clear by rolling a 212 warrior in

[alpine latch]

3 weeks ago we only had like 13 people for raid every night. I've been working my ass off to build up the roster to get us into Mythic

Got a blue parse on our first kill for Eye (along with a 97% item level), so I'm happy with that

[spice spire]

Good shit

[hollow river]

I grey parsed my first M sylv kill

[alpine latch]

Atta boy!

You got a M Sylv kill though, which tbh is all that matters

[spice spire]

YO WE GOT THERE

Even fraggers get grays on prog homie. Just get that juice on a future kill

[hollow river]

Yeah ig but I felt like I was blasting

Think I lose too much damage in p2

[spice spire]

There are also not a ton of sin sylv logs

[hollow river]

I also should’ve desynced first 2 Flags in p3

[spice spire]

Your competition isn’t a bunch of low mythic shitters like myself on the first few bosses

[hollow river]

Did 8.3k dps in p3 which I know isn’t bad, but isn’t great either

[hollow river]

[alpine latch]

Hey.. I'm part of that low Mythic shitters

[hollow river]

The big blasters do every fight

[spice spire]

Yeah, Palmer. Soon you’ll be mid mythic, then top of the scale

Yeah, I mean no matter what, on the eye, your logs are going against people sub 250. I’d be surprised if anyone is below that on sylv.

My gear is ass

[alpine latch]

Sadly, I'm in charge of my own destiny as the recruitment officer...

The harder I work, the more likely the guild will succeed

[spice spire]

Yep, I get it. I’m part of the equation for my guild

[hollow river]

We hold 2 mins for intermissions on the Eye

[alpine latch]

It's fun but exhausting

[hollow river]

So I’ll never parse on that fight

[spice spire]

You can without, just get KA

But yeah, externals are pain

I’ll never be proud of logs

[hollow river]

Our priest randomly PIs me

It’s actually kinda aggravating

[alpine latch]

I got KA last week in our heroic clear. It was so nice

First and only time I'll ever get it

[hollow river]

Either give it to me the entire fight or don’t sully my logs

I got PI for our entire heroic sale the other day

[alpine latch]

Wait, your priests don't PI you as soon as all of your CDs are over?

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Exactly, mr. notrickz happened on our first mythic kill.

[hollow river]

Nah he does it with Vendetta

But like randomly

[spice spire]

You can macro a whisper to said priest

[alpine latch]

our priests have a knack for only using PI after CDs so whoever gets it gets zero benefit from it

[hollow river]

Yeah

I have it macrod

[spice spire]

And KA ends up benefiting me the most for raid overall, but it’s getting close to the venthyr rogue

[hollow river]

Vendetta whispers my priest

[hollow river]

Wut

You’re necro still?

[spice spire]

Between tank gain and me, it’s +50 dps for me to get KA

Yeah

[hollow river]

You’d think Venthyr rogue would get

Idk

Maybe I go necro for the fun next week 😮

Haven’t blasted SBS in so long

[spice spire]

It’s a -100 dps for me, but -150 for the tank for venthyr.
So it still goes to me, once he gets more gear, ive a feeling KA goes to him. Which is good, I’ve always preached on prog, that externals should/will go to the best place possible

And yeah man, sbs still fun, which is why I’ve played it all tier

[alpine latch]

Yeah, I tell people not to PI me

Because it's a bigger gain on others

[hollow river]

I’m gonna grind out my sockets this week

Try and actually fix these parses a little before the tiers over lmao

[alpine latch]

lol

You don't have all your sockets?

[hollow river]

Fack no

[echo geyser]

how can u fix parses in current meta

[hollow river]

Shit tier content

[alpine latch]

I have rank 6 on both of my rogues 😦

[hollow river]

I can at least go for purples Ram

[echo geyser]

u need to get fully juiced

[hollow river]

Just for purples? Nah

[spice spire]

Cev had zero juice on his parses, with a few oranges

[hollow river]

For orange parses and rank 1s maybe

[spice spire]

But that dude scares me

With how clean he is all the time

[hollow river]

Yeah I’ll never understand that lmao

I know I play well

Kill times and strats are atrocious though

[alpine latch]

I'm a decent player. I'm no where near the top though. I only have orange parses because it's heroic

[hollow river]

Yeh my heroics are decent

Only gonna get better now that my guild is doing sales finally

We raid like 4-5 days a week now

[echo geyser]

i havent looked at wcl for a long time

[hollow river]

2-3 for farm. 1 for heroic sale. 1 for mythic alt raid

[echo geyser]

but can u get orange without juice atm?

[spice spire]

Yes

[echo geyser]

is that 90 or 95 idek

[spice spire]

95

[echo geyser]

ah ok

[spice spire]

It’s not easy tho, like I said it requires like perfect play

For later bosses

Earlier bosses are a bit watered on the logs

Post painsmith, I’d say it requires a bit of gear + near perfect play.

[alpine latch]

Orange is 95, yeah

Painsmith is ez - just pad on the balls duh

Run CT

lol

(don't actually do that you're trolling)

[vale marten]

am i blind or where can i sim in raidbots crit tea from theotar?

[hollow river]

You have to manually add a string of text

[vale marten]

ah shit

[hollow river]

@spice spire do you know the string

[hollow river]

I think it’s in #subtlety-faq

I can’t remember

[ebon notch]

It sims theotar automatically if you care which is better. If you want to see which tea specifically then yeah you have to add a string

Cev and whisp know I'll try and find it later

[vale marten]

ty

[spice spire]

Yeah hold real quick

[vale marten]

profileset."crit"+="shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit"

this?

[spice spire]

Yeah

[echo geyser]

its in sub faq

[limber lion]

You can just slap the end portion in top gear and sim it that way

[spice spire]

Shadowlands.party_favor_type= (insert stat there)

[limber lion]

that's used for comparison sake in advanced

shadowlands.party_favor_type=crit

[vale marten]

cool ty all

[spice spire]

Best of luck

[empty hinge]

Any idea when is the next time upper reaches is back in torghast

[scarlet warren]

It was just in last week

So maybe 2 or 3 weeks?

[empty hinge]

Cheers

[spice spire]

You can also do twisting corridors to get it, if you’re aiming for a legendary

[empty hinge]

Nah renown since my fae is at 50

[limber lion]

What matters more are the actual blessings, not the floor

If you have a day with the speed blessing and the blessing that reduces elite hp by 75%, should probably go grind out some renown

[alpine latch]

I got sad af last night ... Got home and had time to do some renown grind on my rogue for Necrolord

Got done, realized that I rolled crit tea and swapping removed it

Luckily I got crit again, but damn was I a sad boi for like 3 minutes

[dim mural]

is it safe to say we will drop crit % in favor of haste/mast in 9.2?

[limber lion]

haste/mastery, but yes

[dim mural]

ye corrected :>

[limber lion]

Crit is still good, but we won't be looking at 50% crit :P

[dim mural]

mhm, figured. time to start collecting some stuff from sanctum

[marble hemlock]

Didnt whispyr say its still looking to be crit/haste?

[limber lion]

It's a combination of all 3

[weak plover]

No love for versatility ?

[spice spire]

There was at one point

Those were some dark times

[limber lion]

Well, after simming it with the new Fae APL, it's looking like Haste > Crit=Vers > Mastery

[spice spire]

You don’t want that

Oh no

[limber lion]

But again, we don't really know what the gear is like in Sepulcher and how the weapon speed etc. affects it

But who cares about stats

[spice spire]

CN generic stat weights

[limber lion]

Stats are an old relic from years ago

[marble hemlock]

Vers value will always be somewhat related to the trinkets

[alpine latch]

Sadly, there are a lot of old archaic things about WoW still in the game.

I'm interested in the new dagger set though - curious to find out if those are any good

[dry copper]

what's current speculation for covenant choice in 9.2?

[tribal mauve]

necrolord

[steel ridge]

kekw

[limber lion]

Night Fae

[dry copper]

fuck. only one i haven't touched at all. figures.

[limber lion]

Got plenty of time :P

[marble hemlock]

Plenty of time for Fae to not be slightly better than Venthyr by the time 9.2 releases

[steel ridge]

wasnt duskwalker + obidience expected to fucking own?

[marble hemlock]

Its good, only slightly worse than Fae atm with current PTR Info

2pc and 4pc both working with Sepsis just means that its pretty solid

[steel ridge]

ah right, sepsis is a poison

[alpine latch]

I saved NF to level last - we have 3 characters that go NF for keys. Next time we get a GG blessings day, I'll just swap over and hate myself that day.

I did Kyrian in case I wanted to go Outlaw, then realized I don't hate myself that much

So now I'm 77 in Necrolord (we need a Necro for keys)

[steel ridge]

but duskwalker and obidience should sync nicely, right, like 1 minute burst windows?

[lucid birch]

Gm rogues

[alpine latch]

I'll sim this as we get closer, but if my guild is more than likely not hitting 10/12M next tier, would it be better for me to put my a legendary on my chest?

Chest drops from the like boss 11 or something in the new raid tier, and I'm far more likely to get at least 1 or 2 of the early set bonuses

[rancid pier]

Is there any reason to craft legendaries now or will there be a new currency in 9.2?

[alpine latch]

Only craft them now if you need them, basically.

You can always break them down and get the currency back, you just lose out on the gold from the base

[cerulean nest]

any tips on using Cloak in P1 sylv?

[gusty mirage]

cloak intermission chains

thats about it

[oak sky]

i usually just use it to not get hit by puddles and intermission chains

[cerulean nest]

so after the chain puddles come down but before the actual chains come out

[oak sky]

try watching sylv's cast

use cloak right before it ends

[cerulean nest]

fosh

[alpine latch]

Wait, you can cloak the chains? Is that specific to Mythic?

[gusty mirage]

you still get attached/pulled

but take no damage

[alpine latch]

Ohhh

[gusty mirage]

in mythic you run away from the group

and cloak one of the chain packs in narnia

one less person getting pulled to timbuktu

[oak sky]

What i did was get attached to the middle then hit the far chains

We had to do weird stuff because we didnt have any boomies though

[viscid spear]

I'm going into the game rn, but I was able to hit sprint and I stopped getting pulled; the chain was still attached but I wasn't bring pulled towards it
The only thing that would do something like that with Sprint is the Maneuverability PvP talent but that doesn't make sense.

[oak sky]

We were talking about cloak

[viscid spear]

Well yeah, I cloak on that last one to stop the damage but I was bringing up a side thing

idk what's stopping the pull with Sprint

[oak sky]

Sprint gives you speed so it probably is just canceling out the pull

[viscid spear]

I mean I can stop moving

[oak sky]

Dunno man

[alpine latch]

Yeah, that's happened to me before too - never stopped to figure out what removed the pull from me though

[oak sky]

Might be a bug or a weird heroic thing

[viscid spear]

I have War Mode on and that's a talent, but those don't apply in raids obviously

[alpine latch]

There's been times where my chain was 100% alive and somehow it just stopped pulling me altogether

[viscid spear]

Wonder if other classes have that happening without reason

[gusty mirage]

naw it happens in mythic sometimes too

its a weird interaction with chain

[viscid spear]

I should pay attention more

[oak sky]

Idk ive never noticed the pull stopping for no reason

Its always either a double chain or cloak or something

[spice spire]

I’ve had the chain stop pulling before

[gusty mirage]

ye idk what it is

it just happens sometimes

[spice spire]

Like once out of over a hundred times but it does happen

[woeful meteor]

you use mfd in opener during shiv and hold up to 15 sec for flag right? Think the pin got removed and it isnt in faq either

[gusty mirage]

yeppers

during opener it'd be shiv -> vanish -> mut -> env -> mfd -> env

and then it usually syncs up so you get an mfd in shiv in between flags

[woeful meteor]

ok ty

[viscid spear]

Do you remember if you had hit Sprint when it happens?

[spice spire]

I did not

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

I think I shadowstepped to another chain to hit it

and I thought mine had gone away because it stopped pulling

[viscid spear]

Hmm, I thought it was some weird interaction with Sprint but seems not

I got KSM, didn't know if you saw

[spice spire]

I did and am proud of you

I told you horde was the way

[viscid spear]

Oh yeah, that's right you did

[alpine latch]

Here's me on lonely Alliance island 😦

I miss you guys

[viscid spear]

You're a Horde at heart

[alpine latch]

I mean, my Horde rogue is 245 item level

So I can't complain

lol

[solid mica]

I wish playing alliance was more reasonable

[clever kindle]

lets hope next expansion it is

[viscid spear]

Heading to capital city to port to NR Dal, almost went to SW portal

[spice spire]

Time to break old habits

[agile osprey]

If we end up going Night Fae will that reduce the effectiveness that kindred affinity has on us?

[gusty mirage]

No, dom shards going away and fae gives haste

Haste good for us and boomies

[balmy condor]

It actually increases the effectiveness

Almost doubling the benefit we get compared to venth

[echo geyser]

[gusty mirage]

[alpine latch]

So I'm asking here as to not derail the important convo in the thread - but why are we talking about going Fae in 9.2 instead of Venthyr when Venthyr is technically higher sims?

[echo geyser]

seli not playing nf on sylv

[gusty mirage]

Because fae APL hadn’t been touched since the Stone Age. @limber lion found some optimizations and Whispyr has been hard at work to implement them

And fae’s pulling ahead

[alpine latch]

Ohhh, that's what they were talking about with the APL changes then

I figured I was missing something but I didn't know what

[echo geyser]

most importantly

soulshape > door of shadows

[alpine latch]

I thought they were just optimizing it like normal, but if it's drastic changes then it totally makes sense

[echo geyser]

[alpine latch]

Agreed

[gusty mirage]

Door dash is bis for sylv wdym

[echo geyser]

[bleak sky]

factually true and large

[gusty mirage]

Double door actually huge

[alpine latch]

Ram - do you think your 30s would be possible as Assassination? Or is Sub legit required for that high of keys?

[echo geyser]

u could but why play something thats kinda worse in every possible way

[alpine latch]

Because I'm Alliance

And that's just what we do

[echo geyser]

ally is better tho

[alpine latch]

It's fine, it's fine... I'll just go cry now

Don't mind me!

[bleak sky]

dwarf op

[echo geyser]

the only dungeon where sin better than sub could be ToP

but i play outlaw in there

[alpine latch]

We're not looking to push anything nutty.. But I'd really like to get to 2500

[bleak sky]

perfectly fine to play sin

[alpine latch]

Just trying to decide if I want to say fuck it and go Sub for keys just to make it easier

[bleak sky]

just play what you like, hold w and time keys

[echo geyser]

yeah 2,5k is like 23s right

[gusty mirage]

More than doable